00:02:49 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:03:44 DrPete_ [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has joined #lisp 00:03:51 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:04:52 can emacs be convinced to highlight the functions (ie every first component in a brace level) .. i realize that may be ambigous for macros an quotes 00:05:25 of course it can 00:05:29 don't ask me how 00:06:16 -!- DrPete [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:06:17 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:27 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-115.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 00:07:28 the answer to the question "Can emacs be convinced to X" is essentially equivalent to "Is X computable" 00:07:32 what's a blist? @HexstreamSoft mentions alist, blists, plists... are there qlists, too? 00:08:25 Fare: only thing I'm aware of is this: http://stutzbachenterprises.com/blist/ 00:08:41 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:09:23 gridaphobe [~gridaphob@169.228.188.47] has joined #lisp 00:11:15 anyone else had any problem to use slime with emacs 24.2? 00:12:13 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:15:32 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: guyal] 00:18:46 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:21:41 lcc [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 00:21:41 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:22:45 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:27:44 -!- cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has quit [Quit: cic__] 00:28:34 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-115.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:28:53 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.117] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:29:03 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:29:42 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:31:01 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-115.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 00:32:17 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:35:44 minion: memo for francogrex: remove-if-not doesn't work on p-list or hash-tables. 00:35:44 Remembered. I'll tell francogrex when he/she/it next speaks. 00:36:11 minion: memo for francogrex: that's why you need to use a function such as select, that you will implement and that will work on your tables. 00:36:11 Remembered. I'll tell francogrex when he/she/it next speaks. 00:36:42 LiamH [~healy@pool-173-73-125-152.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:32 oh nice 00:37:36 what else does minion do? 00:38:45 minion: what else do you do? 00:38:45 now what would compel me to do ? 00:39:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:39:44 minion: list your commands 00:39:45 you speak nonsense 00:39:51 ha 00:41:28 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 00:42:26 -!- gridaphobe [~gridaphob@169.228.188.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:42:47 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:43:29 orthecreedence: type: /msg minion help 00:43:46 thanks =] 00:44:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.176.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:48:01 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 00:48:20 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:49:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:49:59 minion: advice #11904 00:49:59 Who the fuck cares which one is faster? 00:51:00 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Client Quit] 00:51:18 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 00:51:38 -!- lcc [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:53:08 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:55:16 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-115.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:56:03 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:34 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:59:01 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-173-73-125-152.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:00:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:00:38 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] 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has joined #lisp 02:03:13 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 02:04:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:04:30 add^_^ [~add^_@m90-141-48-166.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 02:05:14 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-188-110.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:05:16 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 02:06:09 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 02:07:05 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:54 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:10:38 is there a function like mapcar that doesn't collect (just run a function on each item of list, no return) 02:10:49 mapc 02:10:50 dolist 02:11:04 actually that's a macro, but yeah 02:11:15 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:11:22 should i say "form" to cover both 02:11:33 mapc is a function that does what you want. 02:11:49 my suggestion has the flaw that you cannot just pass #'foo 02:12:03 whats the logic of the mnenonic mapc 02:12:15 (i'll go with that) 02:12:16 that being said, it's what I usually use to iterate over a list... 02:12:37 that or (loop) or (iter) 02:12:55 I don't know where the name comes from. There's also mapl and maplist, and of course map. 02:13:40 found this http://compgroups.net/comp.lang.lisp/etymology-of-map-list-car-con-can-c-l/696204 02:13:53 still doesn't explain the "c" to me, but maybe you'll read it different 02:13:55 is mapc generic for any Collection, with maplist specific to list 02:14:05 mapCar is like map but Car-ing the results 02:14:15 no, mapc only works on lists. 02:14:26 if you want any sequence, use map with a first argument of nil. 02:14:33 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:14:50 maplist is like mapcar but works on successive conses instead of successive elements. try (maplist #'identity '(1 2 3)) 02:14:54 good tip, Bike, I didn't know that 02:16:06 i guess maplist must have had a use somewhere.. 02:16:35 it's part of mapcar, so there's that I guess 02:16:59 is maplist part of mapcar? looks different 02:17:18 redline6561, uh oh, I have feedback on your 6502 paper 02:17:49 "part of mapcar"? 02:18:19 1- the machine hasn't got 3 registers, it has got 256 memory-mapped 8-bit registers, pairable into 16-bit registers -- that's zero-page for you. 02:18:21 mapcar = (maplist (alexandria:compose #'foo #'car) list)) 02:18:30 2- you forgot the :execute clause in your eval-when 02:18:33 minus that extra paren 02:19:25 you can't really call zero page 'memory mapped registers' 02:19:40 anyhow, that's what I mean by "part of mapcar" -- mapcar could be expressed as a thin layer over maplist 02:19:51 joekarma: I guess you could phrase it that way, but it doesn't have to be implemented that way and probably isn't. 02:19:59 3- do you properly emulate bugs with page wraparound? 02:20:01 ... or were there 6502 implementations where it kept them onchip 02:20:36 this is true, I'm just parroting/paraphrasing what I read 5 seconds ago from the cll post by Peter Seibel I linked 5 minutes ago 02:21:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:21:19 and calling a piece of software pham nuwen --- it better be AWESOME 02:23:05 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:34 sabra [~wol@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 02:25:02 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:28:45 can clisp introspect functions, eg extract closure variables from a return lambda 02:30:10 -!- booguie [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:09 SsvRrwQ [~user@24.68.50.61] has joined #lisp 02:31:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:31:18 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:31:55 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-qjbqohecpztcfgco] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:32:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.87.166] has joined #lisp 02:32:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.87.166] has quit [Changing host] 02:32:15 attila_lendvai 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[~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:23:38 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.195.72.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:25:09 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:29:45 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@adsl-76-203-150-81.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:32:17 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:33:10 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:34:02 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:34:36 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:37:06 flailingly [~effect@c-67-169-127-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:04 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:40:51 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:43:11 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:43:51 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:44:23 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-79.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:44:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:45:21 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 03:50:51 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:50:54 anyone here worked with lisp opengl bindings - will they work with common lisp? 03:51:23 ^work with clisp sorry. i just tried building cl-opengl from github and its looking for sbcl 03:51:28 I know they exist, never tried 03:51:36 why insist on clisp? 03:51:48 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-pixifeupszykuclp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:52:14 p_nathan1 [~anunknown@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 03:52:48 jlongster [~user@pool-98-117-94-43.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:36 doomlord: istr more than one person in #lispgames using clisp as their main dev platform, including using cl-opengl/lispbuilder-sdl/etc. 03:53:51 doomlord: if you find something specific that's preventing building, you can probably ask |3b| :) 03:54:33 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:01:18 thanks 04:01:32 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:03:49 -!- DoctorDude [~Jake@144.26.129.2] has left #lisp 04:03:52 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:04:56 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:06:54 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: catmtking] 04:08:20 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@adsl-76-203-150-81.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:08:41 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:10:04 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:59 -!- lggr 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(defmacro for (&rest args) (append (list 'loop 'for) args)) ... any reason lispers want to write "loop for" instead of "for .."; do some forms of loop not need for 04:34:54 (above macro lets me write (for x in src do ( ... )) .. bit more intuitive for a c-head) 04:34:58 cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has joined #lisp 04:35:01 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:35:44 some forms of loop don't use for, yes. 04:35:45 doomlord, loop is much more powerful than 'for' constructs in other languages 04:36:00 i've found the 'collecting', any other gems? 04:36:07 doomlord, see 'loop for black belts' in PCL 04:36:19 you can establish local variables with "with", and there's basically a ton of stuff. 04:36:41 also, you can just write `(loop for ,@args) or (list* 'loop 'for args). 04:37:06 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:37:36 (i keep forgetting those.. whilst i'm also trying to keep the other list manipulation forms in mind) 04:37:54 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 04:38:01 ,@ means quote un-evaluated? 04:38:14 (within a '(....)) 04:38:35 it means evalaute and splice. but it's not important, any of the three work mostly the same 04:39:22 ah shortcut for append i see 04:39:34 yep. 04:40:24 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:41:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:41:18 hey, I am using clisp 04:41:20 (loop for .. for ... do ) ... a bit like C's for ( , , ; ; , , ) {} perhaps :) 04:41:26 and just learning how to do things 04:41:31 and I came across this code here 04:41:32 http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Sets-And-Lists.html 04:41:53 (member '(2) '((1) (2))) ; (2) and (2) are equal. 04:41:53  ((2)) 04:42:03 but when I do that, it just says NIL 04:42:37 I figure if member is part of elisp but not clisp, it would give me an error I guess? 04:42:46 but it doesn't, it just outputs nil instead of ((2)) 04:42:55 any idea why? 04:44:11 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:44:15 Derk: because member uses eql for comparison by default, and those lists aren't guaranteed eql. 04:44:22 Derk: don't learn cl from an elisp manual. 04:44:49 ok, then, is there a built-in member function for clisp? 04:45:01 yes, member. 04:45:04 I wrote my own but if there's an existing one 04:45:06 ehhhh 04:45:09 and it's "CL" 04:45:19 Derk: (member '(2) '((1) (2)) :test #'equal) => what you want. 04:45:36 i like the fact (loop for (..) in .. ) can take multiple items like destructuring ? 04:45:40 ah 04:45:46 force it to use a different test 04:46:09 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@76.203.150.81] has joined #lisp 04:46:59 thanks 04:47:43 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:49:24 perhaps cynically i'll say the various loop forms look like workarounds for prefix nottation :) but maybe its saving some variable declaring compared to writing it out in other languages. i was interested to see "maximizing" etc ... thats something i do a lot 04:51:00 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:51:03 -!- Axioplas1 [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 04:51:14 Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:22 -!- p_nathan1 [~anunknown@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:52:34 p_nathan1 [~anunknown@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 04:53:39 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@76.203.150.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:54:21 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:55:25 benny [~user@i577A1597.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:01:03 -!- BrianRice [~water@71-217-126-9.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice] 05:01:26 BrianRice [~water@71-217-126-9.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:34 -!- 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awesome, i always missed them in C 05:14:49 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:15:00 oh..will that bind a global symbol? 05:15:30 sabalaba [~Adium@2602:306:cfc8:8c30:1472:1414:5fe5:cbef] has joined #lisp 05:15:49 What do you mean? 05:16:23 argh it appears to 05:17:25 -!- kjbrock [~user@173-11-106-198-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:17:43 for a minute i thought i could do nested defuns - but i think you're supposed to use lambdas for what i had in mind ... bind the lambda to a let 05:18:01 -!- p_nathan1 [~anunknown@75.87.250.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:18:16 doomlord_: you want flet. 05:18:48 thanks 05:18:58 yeah, putting defun in a function body just globally defines the function. 05:19:10 whenever you run the function, which is probably not what you want! 05:19:11 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 05:19:20 add^_^ [~add^_@m37-2-177-189.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 05:19:48 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-48-166.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:19:53 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 05:20:07 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Ping timeout: 604 seconds] 05:21:38 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:22:05 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.176.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 05:22:48 i thought it might be easier to use a lamda in a let block; 05:23:56 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:24:14 -!- ryankey [ryankey@adsl-69-230-67-193.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [] 05:25:30 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:42 no need for that, you have flet and labels. 05:26:20 jjkola [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 05:27:16 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:27:30 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:58 the functoin in question used a let* ; then i saw i could factor some parts out into a local function.. the flet was intersting but in that particular case the extra nesting level it demanded was about the same hastle 05:28:00 quazimodo [~quazimodo@203.122.223.124] has joined #lisp 05:28:41 i' m sure thre will be other cases where flet is useful... i've always wanted local functions in C. its something #defines can sort of fudge in a limited way.. 05:30:27 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:31:17 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 05:33:46 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:34:28 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 05:36:29 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-197-232-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 05:39:46 -!- jjkola is now known as jjkola_work 05:40:01 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:40:36 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[~kennyd@93-138-19-146.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:17:19 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.130] has joined #lisp 06:18:32 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-236-130.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:19:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-118.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:20:44 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:21:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:22:03 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 06:24:37 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:25:19 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:25:41 -!- flailingly [~effect@c-67-169-127-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:27:26 tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:33 say I'm doing some computation in a cond to check the condition, but I also want to return the value that was just calculated, is there some sort of character or command that will do that? 06:27:57 like (cond ( (func var1 var2) (func var1 var2))) 06:28:02 that seems like overkill 06:28:09 OR 06:28:18 OR? 06:28:28 where can I find details on that? 06:28:29 (or (f ...) (g ...) (h ...)) 06:28:35 Derk: clhs, as always. 06:28:57 but where would that be 06:28:58 returns first non-nil value 06:29:11 clhs or 06:29:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_or.htm 06:29:14 there 06:29:20 ah 06:29:41 thanks 06:29:44 -!- brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:29:49 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:30:38 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:30:47 I don't see how I can put that inside a cond though 06:30:49 brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has joined #lisp 06:30:57 or are you saying use "or" instead of "cond" 06:31:07 yes 06:31:21 OR is basically COND with only the tests 06:31:52 but I have other useful stuff inside other parts of the cond 06:32:09 I guess I'll have to think about this some 06:32:22 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@94.144.63.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:32:25 there's a commonly written macro, "acond", that you might want 06:32:33 Well, you could write some kind of anaphoroc cond ... Bike, yes 06:32:45 clhs acond 06:32:45 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for acond. 06:32:50 it's not standard. 06:32:59 ah 06:33:10 guess I'll mess with all this tomorrow 06:33:11 thanks 06:33:18 basically it's just like cond, but in the bodies "it" or something is bound to the result of the test. 06:33:54 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:34:03 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-235-68.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sweet dreams] 06:34:34 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@203.122.223.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:34:47 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-dcijvecfgyddaocz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:35:46 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:37:39 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-235-68.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:31 -!- foo303 [foocraft@ibawizard.net] has quit [Quit: RanYa] 06:39:34 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.198.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:39:42 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] 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10:36:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:36:50 -!- peccu [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 10:37:07 peccu [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:37:15 -!- peccu [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 10:37:30 peccu [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:37:31 -!- nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:39:10 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.52.41] has joined #lisp 10:42:15 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:43:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:47:13 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:54:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:54:42 can you use setf to change a variable name? i.e., I have a variable named abc, and I want to change the first letter to =, making the variable name =bc 10:55:19 nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:32 No 10:56:14 Afaik, you cannot manipulate var names like that 10:56:53 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 10:57:27 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:57:53 paul0 [~paul0@186.222.48.210] has joined #lisp 10:58:08 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:59:45 so if you're passed something like a-name, you can't use the variable a-name to create b-name? All I'm trying to do is condition on the first character of a variable name 11:00:14 sorry if that's a poorly-formed question; I'm just starting to learn lisp 11:00:42 I don't think that's the problem you originally set out to solve. what are you really trying to do? 11:01:25 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:03:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:04:01 well, I can determine that a variable ?abc starts with a '?' by doing (defun variable-p (x) (and (symbolp x) (equal (char (symbol-name x) 0) #\?))). now, I'm trying to access another variable !abc 11:05:51 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-236-130.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 11:06:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:08:07 cryptic: variables are named by symbols. Symbols are named by strings. 11:08:42 given a variable name (a symbol) you can compute another variable name (another symbol) by going thru the symbol names (strings). 11:10:05 bitonic [~user@vm-shell1.doc.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:10:21 thank you pjb 11:11:13 cryptic: see how in variable-p you're using symbol-name. symbol-name: symbol -> string ; intern: string -> symbol. 11:11:28 well, intern: string × package -> symbol 11:12:56 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:13:36 pjb: would you use intern-soft to determine whether a symbol exists? 11:14:20 find-symbol 11:14:24 intern-soft is emacs lisp, not CL. 11:14:30 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-236-130.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:14:37 Mind the second result of find-symbol. 11:14:45 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 11:15:18 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:16:26 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:16:41 -!- Krystof changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming 11:16:58 language . New: SBCL 1.1.0, cl-irc 0.9.1, Drakma 1.2.7, Hunchentoot 1.2.4 11:17:00 well, that sucks 11:17:15 -!- Krystof changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.1.0, cl-irc 0.9.1, Drakma 1.2.7, Hunchentoot 1.2.4 11:17:20 better 11:19:57 Krystof: why is the second minor version number incremented? 11:20:26 s/second// 11:20:39 all is explained in the mail I sent to sbcl-announce 11:20:48 (and the discussion on sbcl-devel a couple of weeks ago) 11:21:05 oh, i was looking at the changelog 11:23:00 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:23:05 i see, new numbering system 11:23:58 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 11:26:07 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:27:14 it's metacircular 11:27:44 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:32:48 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:34:29 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:51 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@3.82.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:36:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:42:18 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:42:26 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43:00 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:44:39 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:46:05 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:46:20 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 11:47:44 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:49:57 -!- paul0 [~paul0@186.222.48.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50:15 is there anything good to read about parsing in lisp? I've been looking at cl-lex/cl-yacc but not yet achieved enlightenment 11:51:58 I feel like some good examples might be the thing. 11:52:06 `fogus [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 11:52:07 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 11:52:26 mstevens: parsing what? line-delimited text? recursive data structures? XML? 11:52:31 kanru` [~kanru@1-162-49-22.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-118.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:46 -!- nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:52:47 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:52:57 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-44-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:53:08 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:53:27 mstevens: parsing is algorithms. It's language neutral. 11:53:27 flip214: well my specific use case right now was writing a mail parser 11:54:02 pjb: parsing is language neutral, using convenient parser libraries such as cl-yacc is more specific 11:54:03 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:54:03 mstevens: read rfc2822 11:54:31 Parsing email headers can be done directly quite easily, you don't need a parser generator for it. 11:54:36 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 11:54:37 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:55:04 On the other hand, using a parser generator would involve a lexer, and it might be more difficult to write a correct lexer than to write the parser by hand, for emails. 11:55:06 Thra11 [~thrall@3.82.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:57 pjb: I thought I would try to do it really properly and use the grammar from rfc2822 11:56:13 Sure. 11:56:16 Probably I would next find half the internet doesn't follow the rules, but ah well 11:56:40 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:57:15 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 11:58:57 *mstevens* shall experiment 12:00:21 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 12:03:24 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:49 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:07:20 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:28 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:08:09 mstevens: One example that might be useful is closure-template(https://github.com/archimag/cl-closure-template) it uses esrap(https://github.com/nikodemus/esrap) for parsing template files. 12:08:47 Guest29122 [~devnull@174-30.60-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 12:09:08 -!- Guest29122 is now known as d3vnu11 12:09:08 I don't know much about parsing, but I've been reading the source, and thought I'd share. 12:11:48 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:13:58 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:16:17 pavelpenev: looks interesting 12:16:35 *Xach* feels the excitement of lisp today 12:17:27 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:19:15 urandom__ [~user@p548A1BC6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:59 -!- mrm [~user@92.50.188.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:22:22 Xach: why not everyday? 12:23:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:23:58 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:26:16 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 12:26:22 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:27:09 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:27:27 pjb: Exactly! 12:27:45 Xach: I can fee the consing! 12:27:48 *feel 12:33:21 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:35:49 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:59 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:37:45 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:38:37 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:40:33 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:43:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:45:21 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.52.41] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 12:46:40 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:49:23 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:37 -!- hugod [~user@70.24.177.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:51:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:52:02 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:52:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:53:16 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 12:54:30 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-127-233.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:56:14 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:59:59 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:26 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 13:00:47 minion: memo? 13:00:48 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``memo''. 13:00:55 ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.230] has joined #lisp 13:01:19 minion: memo for Fare, Thanks for your notes. And yeah, the trick for pham-nuwen will be to just delay the release indefinitely. ;) 13:01:19 Remembered. I'll tell Fare when he/she/it next speaks. 13:01:50 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-236-130.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:01:51 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 13:02:42 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:03:43 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.130] has joined #lisp 13:04:40 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 13:05:54 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:06:06 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:07:11 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:56 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-236-130.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:11:36 -!- kanru` [~kanru@1-162-49-22.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:13:09 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:13:13 -!- ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:13 snearch [~snearch@f053012224.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:14:13 paul0 [~user@186.222.48.210] has joined #lisp 13:15:04 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:16:51 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:18:16 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:20:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:21:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:22:42 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:22:50 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 13:23:29 -!- mpstyler [~mpstyler@176.73.151.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:23:49 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:24:37 -!- bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable216.122-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:24:58 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 13:24:58 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 13:26:38 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:28:01 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:29 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 13:32:47 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:33:29 ikki [~ikki@189.195.4.79] has joined #lisp 13:34:00 kjbrock [~user@173-11-106-198-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:59 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:07 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 13:36:21 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:41:02 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 13:41:46 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:42:06 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:42:20 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:43:00 VieiraN [~VieiraN@187.101.235.227] has joined #lisp 13:43:23 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:46 holy crap maven is insane why are java people using that crap 13:44:56 it's worse than make and pre-quicklisp CL combined 13:45:26 mathrick: hahaha 13:46:04 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:48:47 also it's lovely how I suddenly had to increase eclipse's heap to 1.5G just to have it build things until errors happen rather than dying on OOM 13:49:14 mathrick: when I did java I used to complain about maven endlessly, but nobody could see how shit it was 13:50:40 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 13:50:40 codeknit [~codeknit@triband-mum-120.60.40.65.mtnl.net.in] has joined #lisp 13:51:09 mathrick: I remember it being a nightmare of badly documented XML, and your build failing because something on the internet was wrong 13:52:36 rtoym: (why) does sparc's allocate-vector touch last page (and the first page, obviously) of the array, but not any pages inbetween? If the workaround for the last page is truly needed, wouldn't a very long array need the same workaround for those other pages, too? 13:52:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:53:07 mstevens: my build is failing constantly because there are several universes: eclipse's, maven's, and eclipse-maven's 13:53:12 and they're constantly out of sync 13:53:17 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:53:51 mathrick: hmm, when I was using it it didn't really integrate with eclipse, and the maven-evangelist we had thought I was odd for wishing for such a thing 13:54:01 ok, need to go home 13:54:32 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:34 -!- paul0 [~user@186.222.48.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:11 also, for some reason the idea of building your entire project was considered insane, which puzzled me 13:56:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:58:49 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@188.181.106.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:01:07 anyway, this is not the place to complain about maven. Fun though it is. 14:02:19 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-118.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:02:50 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:06:36 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:08:38 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:11:22 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053012224.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:13:06 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:16:20 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:33 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:16:49 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 14:20:51 -!- DrPete_ [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:21:38 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-128-245.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:00 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:23:47 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-128-245.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:24:03 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-128-245.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:14 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:21 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:25:23 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 14:25:36 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:04 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 14:26:16 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:27:26 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:02 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 14:29:45 mpstyler [~mpstyler@176.73.151.79] has joined #lisp 14:29:45 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.247] has joined #lisp 14:31:05 -!- codeknit [~codeknit@triband-mum-120.60.40.65.mtnl.net.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:31:34 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Client Quit] 14:31:42 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:33:17 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:33:22 wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-181-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:33:28 hi 14:34:41 can anyone tell me what exactly is needed to build sbcl? 14:34:56 sabalaba [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:08 *Xach* can only tell approximately: sbcl and gcc 14:35:27 guess I will just trial and error 14:35:29 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:41 *wakeup* wonders why there is no ongoing sbcl port for ARM 14:35:51 ARM sure seems to be the big thing right now 14:35:56 Because you didn't contribute to it. 14:36:04 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 14:36:11 wakeup: no one with drive, time, and stuff to test it on? 14:36:11 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: guyal] 14:36:22 Free software is not magical. You have to work hard to have that freedom! 14:36:44 also, I learnt few things about the official ARM docs that make me wary of reading them 14:37:01 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:37:11 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 14:37:17 wakeup: luckily, there is ccl as an alternative when you want cl on arm 14:38:06 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:16 mjs2600_ [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 14:38:30 I get that I am not blaming anyone 14:38:46 and I do like and use ccl 14:39:01 p_l: what exactly? 14:39:39 wakeup: you see, I'd like to dabble with FPGAs later on and maybe build a CPU or two. ARM has some weird licensing mentions in their docs, from what I know. 14:40:06 x86 is open source? 14:40:42 wakeup: no, but except for latest stuff it's so commonalized it's hard to slip such things in 14:40:44 p_l: did you look at the zedboard yet? it is xilinx based, but it is pretty nice and ccl runs great on it. 14:41:01 wakeup: and most of the patents involved are about manufacturing methods, afaik 14:41:08 I don't know much about licensing situations in terms of processor architectures 14:41:20 I just recently had to realize that grub wont run on ARM ;) 14:41:33 fortunately I live in a country that doesn't honour software patents 14:41:47 which one? 14:42:27 Poland 14:42:52 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 14:42:52 (and reverse-engineering is a citizen's right that can't be constrained by license. Nice thing to have) 14:43:11 yeah 14:43:25 And you don't have oil, a nice thing to have (to avoid invasion by the USA). 14:43:32 in germany we don't have laws at all haha 14:43:32 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:43:38 a nice thing *not* to have. 14:43:43 heck we're not even a state 14:44:14 -!- kjbrock [~user@173-11-106-198-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:44:18 H4ns: so, Xilinx now does embedded ARMs rather than PPC 405? 14:44:44 pkhuong: right 14:44:58 I'm not sure if I wouldn't prefer PPC 14:45:04 codeknit [~codeknit@triband-mum-120.60.48.22.mtnl.net.in] has joined #lisp 14:45:09 but well 14:46:05 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 14:46:11 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:46:13 -!- My_Hearing is now known as Mon_Ouie 14:46:33 H4ns: very cool. I like this board :) 14:46:34 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.64.220.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:46:49 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:47:25 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:48:18 wakeup: my long-term target was a board with two-three FPGAs, one of them implementing system board logic (PCI-Express, serial ports, etc. + crossbar switch for CPUs), and one or two as CPUs (with their own memory controllers, placed on slots so I could easily remake the cpu boards) 14:49:33 pkhuong: the fact that it is xilinx based is really a downside. the software required to synthesize stuff for it now amounts to about 10gb, and i'm not sure yet whether i need an edk license to configure the board. but i'll find out. 14:50:42 p_l: sadly I have no real idea of what you are trying to explain to me :/ 14:50:53 but its sounds homebrew, I like that 14:51:46 I don't want to start a flame here, but what are the relevant tradeoffs between ccl and sbcl? 14:52:46 I have used sbcl mostly, but are recently on ccl because of platform support. I guess sbcl is a step ahead with its native compiler? 14:52:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:53:06 a bit slower (not really noticeable most of the time, afaik), doesn't like working without threads (which impacts fork()), some small incompatibilities in libraries 14:53:47 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:54:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:54:05 wakeup: CCL's compiler is also native and much faster. 14:54:14 it could also have been the slow ARM processor in my notebook, its hard to compare 14:54:20 wakeup: i find ccl to be significantly slower than sbcl in many situations, but the debugging support works very well for me. 14:54:35 But it's lacking a cl:step :-( 14:54:40 wakeup: (it generates slower code, but compiles much faster than sbcl) 14:54:55 800mhz celeron/sbcl was about 8 times faster than my 900mhz ARM box 14:55:10 arm notebook? what notebook is that ? 14:55:23 surrounder: there's a bunch of those. Seen some MIPS-based ones as well 14:55:34 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:42 aye, weren't those lemote things mips ? 14:55:42 they're often called "netbooks" 14:55:50 surrounder: don't get too exited, I am trying to get my money back currently 14:56:04 but it was the hercules ex hd 14:56:41 surrounder: I've got a lemote thing, it's mips. And pretty slow. 14:56:43 its a nice device really, but its a weird situation with binary blobs for the linux kernel and all 14:56:44 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:57:32 then what seemed to be the graphics adapter broke, and my trader says he can't find any defects... grrrrr 14:57:42 ouch, that's not ideal 14:57:47 the device itself looks nice 14:58:37 only a bit cheaper than a EEE (or clone) though 15:00:08 jjkola [~androirc@193-64-22-111-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 15:00:14 *sykopomp* didn't know about nstring-upcase/downcase/capitalize! 15:00:52 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-177-126.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:01:54 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-193-37.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:25 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 15:02:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:06:12 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-177-126.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:06:29 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:10:36 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:11:30 I wonder if my feeling of nervousness about those is justified. 15:11:53 Just remember calling copy-seq. 15:12:21 But otherwise, yes, it's justified. 15:12:24 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-78-211.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:12:55 I would probably feel less nervous if I read more about when fresh strings are guaranteed 15:12:59 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:13:04 Right now I only have a vague sense 15:13:24 I rarely use make-string, and i think I rarely use make-array to make strings 15:15:57 surrounder: 10 hours of battery life is the selling point 15:15:58 In general strings are short enough to make immutable copies (subseq, format, copy-seq, concatenate). 15:16:26 wakeup: ah that's a lot indeed 15:16:29 babel as one big string containing all the characters in big5 15:16:33 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:16:50 as an unfortunate (apropos "PING") taught me :-) 15:17:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:18:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:21:35 _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 15:23:24 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:23:34 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@107-202-145-90.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:23:54 kpreid [~kpreid@107-202-145-90.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:23 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:30:55 Hi, I use drakma:http-request to fetch a webpage, and I wonder why sometimes it returns a (simple-array (unsigned-byte 8)) and sometimes a (simple-array character). 15:31:34 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:31:37 daimrod: sometimes the server specifies a text encoding, sometimes it sends binary data. 15:31:54 You can force an encoding; look at the keyword arguments. 15:31:54 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-177-126.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:32:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:32:48 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:33:08 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:25 pkhuong: Ok, thanks. 15:35:03 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:35:44 I think I wound up asking for binary data all the time, and then trying a short sequence of external format because servers can't be trusted to be configured right anyway. 15:35:48 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:27 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@187.101.235.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:34 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:36:35 tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.16.220] has joined #lisp 15:36:52 bitonic` [~user@dyn1197-181.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:37:06 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-qtblocwrjmepcjbq] has joined #lisp 15:37:34 In this case it's my fault. I ask for json and I didn't expect it to be something else than text/plain. 15:38:26 btw, is (map 'string #'code-char array-of-bytes) a good way to get string? 15:38:34 +a 15:38:58 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:38:59 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.176.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:39:42 daimrod: in limited situations 15:40:08 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:40:25 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:40:41 when will it fail? with unicode? 15:41:24 Xach: Any thought of adding the abiltity to automatically create a test-package to quickproject? 15:41:27 daimrod: when the encoding uses more than one byte for a character, or when the encoding does not match up exactly with CL's 15:41:43 sabra: that doesn't sound like a terrible idea. what would it involve? 15:41:52 Xach: what is the better choice? 15:41:55 Xach: Ok. 15:42:33 for instance, any of the utf. 15:42:50 mstevens: many lisps have a function to convert an array of octets in a specific encoding to a string of characters, and there are libraries to do the same in a portable way 15:43:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:44:50 mstevens: try (apropos "octets-to-string") and (apropos "string-to-octets") 15:45:03 mstevens: both babel and flexi-streams implement those functions in a portable fashion. 15:45:15 Xach: Think it would create a second asd file, which uses the new project, and creates a test directory. 15:45:50 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-177-126.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:46:10 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:46:24 Xach: Not sure you want to do more than that. I was looking at cl-project, which does this, but it also wants a separate package for every source file - which would drive me crazy 15:47:13 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.23.225.16] has joined #lisp 15:47:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:49:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:52:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:55:36 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:59:17 -!- jjkola [~androirc@193-64-22-111-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:01:49 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:02:54 -!- paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:00 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-236-130.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 16:05:04 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:05:09 booguie [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:20 joekarma [~joekarma@70.28.245.93] has joined #lisp 16:06:35 -!- bitonic` [~user@dyn1197-181.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:10:00 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 16:10:54 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70.28.245.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:11:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:12:41 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:13:03 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 16:13:29 bitonic` [~user@146.169.25.115] has joined #lisp 16:13:36 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-236-130.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:14:26 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:14:29 ASau [~user@95-24-181-228.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:14:30 jewel [~jewel@196-215-139-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:17:14 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:34 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:19:00 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 16:19:56 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-170-36.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:21:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:22:41 kjbrock [~user@158.sub-75-210-204.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:51 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:24:00 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:24:29 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:24:34 Anyone know of a good cooperative multitasking library? 16:25:25 com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.activity ? 16:25:34 Lispcafe 16:25:41 Oh damn 16:26:01 Sorry. i meant to join the channel xD 16:26:16 /join #lispcafe then 16:26:19 *jasom* wonders why he didn't check informatimago first 16:26:27 jasom: did you check cliki? 16:26:35 jasom: how could that be a library? 16:27:11 pjb: my phone client has an option called 'join channel' 16:27:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:27:54 And another one for messages. I pressed on the wrong one. 16:27:54 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:28:28 pkhuong: it's possible to implement in pure lisp, most likely. It's trivial to do in scheme using call/cc. It might be better if you had some non-portable assistance though 16:29:05 The task can also be very cooperative, by yielding often. 16:29:07 well, you can already use a pseudo-call/cc in CL with various libraries. 16:29:20 cps transformer with liberally sprinkled "yield continuation"? 16:30:00 -!- codeknit [~codeknit@triband-mum-120.60.48.22.mtnl.net.in] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:30:26 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:31:18 jasom: there is no call/cc in common lisp. 16:32:11 Just return from your task when you want to yield. Be very cooperative! 16:32:18 pkhuong: I know; that's why I said "It's trivial to do in scheme using call/cc" If there was a call/cc in common lisp, I wouldn't have had to say that 16:32:34 What makes you think a similar approach would be viable in CL? 16:32:34 there are libraries for delimited continuations in CL. 16:32:44 They're enough for cooperative multitasking. 16:33:06 Now, the real problems are CL primitives, notably I/O. 16:33:50 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:34:02 pjb: Couldn't you just make a Gray Stream class that does non-blocking IO, perhaps built ontop of IOLib? 16:34:20 Yes, it's possible. 16:34:44 I mean in any language, accidentally doing blocking IO is the problem with cooperative multitasking; that's not unique to lisp 16:35:33 -!- emma is now known as em 16:35:39 Sure. The difference is that with most implementaitons, you cannot just use the equivalent of setjmp/longjmp to implement cooperative multitasking. CL implementations are more finickly 16:35:46 jasom: due to issues with non-blocking I/O... you're left with creating an extra thread just for I/O or putting a bit of I/O handling into scheduler hoping that some operations supposed to be non-blocking doesn't block 16:35:48 If you limit yourself to implementations with non-copying GC, then you can do it the same way you would do it in C 16:35:55 jjkola [~androirc@212-226-64-230-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 16:36:15 Just suspending a green thread is a challenge enough. 16:36:33 p_l: what issues with non-blocking I/O? 16:36:58 I think the only system where you can do async IO reliably without extra threads is the one where getting CL (or getting a machine to run it at all) is hard - that is, VMS 16:37:33 *jasom* has done async IO fine in a single thread on linux and bsd 16:37:36 jasom: linux's AIO support is wonky - kernel support is partly broken, glibc support simply starts extra threads, you're left with select/epoll etc. 16:37:59 A long time, I wrote a codewalker to compile CL into an ANF CL, to get delimited continuations, with interop (i.e. not CPS). In the end, it's useless: the transparency is a mirage anyway. 16:38:11 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:12 so you can put the I/O handling into scheduler (workable) 16:39:32 So no, you can't implement a cooperative tasking library in CL. What you can do is develop a nice DSL for state machines or some other sort of explicitly not-CL EDSL, and hook that in a regular task scheduler (like IOLib's, iirc). 16:39:50 pkhuong: what about com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.activity ? 16:40:19 pjb: doesn't that require you to break up your tasks into groups of non-blocking closures? 16:40:24 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:40:53 so, this might sound silly, but I'm finding it tricky 16:40:55 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.23.225.16] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 16:41:46 oh yes, the other option is to code in CPS, like node. I'd rather just deal with threads. 16:42:13 eh, I can't even describe it, I'm going to go think harder 16:43:10 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:43:40 ok, so I have a compile-form method that dispatches recursively using (tag (eql 'ast-tag-name)) 16:44:12 in some cases I need to return multiple forms on the same level, other time snot 16:44:27 is the idiomatic thing to just wrap every return value for all these methods in an extra list? 16:44:41 what's wrong with multiple value returns? 16:44:53 there's no way to know how many there are going to be 16:44:55 is that a problem? 16:44:55 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:44:56 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:44:59 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:45:07 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 16:45:15 I mean, it will be enumerable at runtime, but it could be 1, 2, .., N 16:45:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:45:51 Bike_ [~Glossina@63-229-128-245.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:58 SsvRrwQ` [~user@24.68.50.61] has joined #lisp 16:46:00 urandom_ [~user@p548A1BC6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:05 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c1a21.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:08 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:46:12 there is no problem, if N is reasonably small; the issue is similar to the number of arguments one can pass via &rest. 16:46:30 AlbireoX`Laptop [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.247] has joined #lisp 16:47:09 If it's a sequence of values, return a sequence. You could even have some methods return lists, others multiple values, and others still multiple lists. 16:47:30 -!- pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:16 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:48:25 Yee [~On@42.108.149.161] has joined #lisp 16:48:47 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-128-245.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48:47 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1a21.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48:47 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48:47 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A1BC6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48:47 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-139-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48:47 -!- _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48:48 -!- Vivitron` [~user@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48:48 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@24.68.50.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48:48 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48:48 _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 16:48:48 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483B6D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:49 jewel [~jewel@196-215-139-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:48:49 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B6D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:49 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:55 Blkt [~user@82.84.170.179] has joined #lisp 16:49:19 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:49:38 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.195.4.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:50:08 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:50:18 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 16:50:36 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.176.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:50:42 sabalaba1 [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:42 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:52:02 cic__ [~connolly@Dampier-wifi.AI.SRI.COM] has joined #lisp 16:53:09 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:53:54 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:54:31 "@itasoftware.com has been removed from iterate-devel." 16:54:33 *antifuchs* )-: 16:54:54 :( 16:55:01 Perhaps it could be left for the historical interest, with a note? 16:55:37 I'm sure whoever is forwarding his email doesn't want once-a-month mailman chunder 16:55:57 -!- My_Hearing is now known as Mon_Ouie 16:56:01 Oh, right, I was thinking about a README file, not a mail-list, of course. 16:58:41 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:38 -!- cic__ [~connolly@Dampier-wifi.AI.SRI.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:59:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:00:07 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:01:19 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:02:54 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:03:19 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:04:17 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:07:14 -!- kjbrock [~user@158.sub-75-210-204.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:07:14 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:07:53 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-220-149.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 17:09:13 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:10:00 Too bad, it's tech-talk is private on youtube Does anyone has a copy of it? (High-Performance Transaction Processing in Lisp) 17:10:58 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:11:04 daimrod: i haven't heard of any copies. 17:11:10 it's not really about that, though 17:11:13 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:21 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:43 DrPete [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has joined #lisp 17:11:46 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 17:12:48 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:12:57 indeed, I'm reading your blogpost on it. 17:15:16 deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:30 tomaw_ [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 17:16:31 -!- Yee [~On@42.108.149.161] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:18:47 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:19:52 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 17:19:56 Get hired by google, watch the video, resign. 17:20:27 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-112-017.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:33 it's hidden even from googlers 17:20:59 You have to be a 4th circle ubergoogler to see it? 17:21:56 you mean Hacker Grade 4? 17:22:47 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:24:05 I saw it, he does not talk about anything low level but it is interesting. 17:24:06 hugod [~user@38.127.70.26] has joined #lisp 17:24:24 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:06 There are no code examples or anything like that. 17:25:36 daimrod: whose tech talk? 17:25:48 (the High-performance transaction processing one) 17:25:54 ed_g [~chatzilla@74-93-184-218-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:57 Weinreb's @ Google 17:25:58 I could try seeing if I can smuggle it out 17:26:14 he is a great speaker 17:26:27 judging by dan's post to Pro, it sounds like it was hidden for political reasons. 17:26:35 maybe not the wisest choice to smuggle it out. 17:26:48 not that I wouldn't like to see it. :) 17:27:05 -!- mjs2600_ [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:09 DoctorDude [~DoctorDud@144.26.129.2] has joined #lisp 17:27:33 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 17:28:14 i don't think it's worth risking much for it. it's interesting, but not super 17:28:15 "not java or python"? or what? 17:28:33 quick question, i need to do a comparison between interpreted and compiled code. how do i force code interpretation? 17:28:46 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:29:07 DoctorDude: you can't necessarily force it. 17:29:08 well, I'll try and see if I can get a copy of that through my contacts 17:29:09 DoctorDude: you may not be able to 17:29:11 DoctorDude: what implementation do you use? 17:29:27 It's CL with SLIME 17:29:45 DoctorDude: which implementation? 17:29:46 DoctorDude: what implementation of CL? 17:29:58 implementation == sbcl || clisp || ccl || lw || acl etc 17:30:06 sbcl 17:30:25 DoctorDude: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Interpreter.html 17:30:48 jasom: thanks ill give that a try 17:31:27 SBCL's use of an interpreter is idiosyncratic. it was added long after the compiler for performance reasons. 17:31:32 that's a relatively recent addition though, so I wonder if the question you're trying to answer is well-posed. 17:32:13 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:22 mjs2600_ [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 17:32:28 *jasom* has never used the sbcl interpreter 17:32:39 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:33:26 any particular reason why SBCL's version got bumped from 1.0.x to 1.1.x ? 17:35:11 jasom: ok, now i sound stupid, i've tried to switch the evaluator mode to interpret but based on that guide it's not working. it probably is a easy fix; where do i change that mode? 17:35:20 p_l: I'd be happy if you could find it. 17:36:18 jasom: is that something i should add to my .emacs file temporarily? i'd think i wouldnt "have" to do that 17:36:18 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:36:40 daimrod: yeah, but the most obvious approach is rather hard 17:38:18 DoctorDude: it works fine for me, just (setq sb-ext:*evaluator-mode* :interpret) 17:38:20 jasom: think i figured it out 17:38:42 jasom: slime didn't like when i used parens with this, strange but ill see if it worked 17:39:10 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:39:16 p_l: yes, I know the chances are slim. 17:39:26 DoctorDude: out of curiousity why do you need to interpret code at all? As others have mentioned, the interpreter is just there as a performance tweak. 17:39:56 jasom: comparing performance between interpreted/compiled functions for a computer science course 17:40:04 if you want to characterise your system under an interpreter, load it in clisp. 17:40:07 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-qtblocwrjmepcjbq] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:22 which is a kind of oranges to tangerines comparison. 17:40:45 Yes, in clisp, you just use (load "file.lisp") (time (your-fun)) (load(compile-file "file.lisp")) (time (your-fun)) to compare interpreted vs. compiled. 17:40:49 madnificent: if you read the announcement mail, or the messages on sbcl-devel discussing this a week or so ago, you will discover the answer 17:40:55 can you even get an interpreted function in sbcl? 17:41:09 In sbcl, activating the interpreter requires the use of implementation specific API. 17:41:17 jasom: you can. 17:41:17 other than something like (lambda () (eval...)) 17:41:29 Krystof: oh, must've read the wrong page then. i went on to what has changed. thanks 17:41:35 all CL code is compiled 17:41:38 *jasom* thought the types compiled-function and function were synonymous on sbcl 17:41:42 sykopomp: Not always. 17:41:45 the question is at what level it starts being interpreted 17:41:52 madnificent: (the basic answer is no; the meta answer is "to celebrate the new version numbering scheme") 17:42:03 pjb: all CL code goes through minimal compilation. 17:42:13 Yes. 17:42:13 even if that works out to a noop. 17:42:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:42:36 "This is explicitly allowed by the ANSI standard, but leads to some oddities, e.g. collapsing functionp and compiled-function-p into the same predicate" 17:42:52 Krystof: even better, thanks. searching on the site for inforamtion on it 17:43:17 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:43:45 jasom: you switch to the interpreter-based evaluator and type stuff in, without calling compile. 17:44:23 pkhuong: well does lambda ever create a function that is interpreted? 17:44:30 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:44:32 -!- My_Hearing is now known as Mon_Ouie 17:44:49 jasom: EVAL does. 17:45:32 -!- pok [~pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:32 pkhuong: oh, apparently lambda will generate an interpreted function, so the docs should probably be updated 17:45:56 jasom: it works, thanks very much for the help. I'm being asked to compare interpreted/compiled performance of recursive and tail recursive fibonacci functions. My professor's macro was supposed to force the interpretation but it didn't, at least i learned something new about lisp/sbcl today 17:46:04 :P 17:46:21 DoctorDude: the ANSI standard does not provide a way to force interpretation 17:46:48 kjbrock [~user@63.110.51.11] has joined #lisp 17:46:49 jasom: I don't see where the documentation is misleading. 17:47:06 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 17:47:10 functionp and compiled-function-p cannot be the same predicate if you can ever have an interpreted function 17:47:13 ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 17:48:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:48:24 jasom: and? 17:48:36 jasom: Ok, but sbcl has it right? The feedback i got from sbcl was indicative of an interpreter working 17:48:50 pkhuong: the docs say that they are the same predicate 17:48:55 where? 17:49:25 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Compiler_002donly-Implementation 17:50:04 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-177-126.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:51:57 Demosthenex [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 17:52:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:52:18 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:52:20 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:52:24 Right... How should this be improved? The sentiment is right for the vast majority of users. 17:52:45 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-197-232-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:53:04 pok [~pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 17:53:12 When your example isn't true, it's not a good example 17:53:55 it is the same predicate in the default configuration. 17:54:21 - 17:54:38 -!- jjkola [~androirc@212-226-64-230-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:54 jjkola [~androirc@212-226-64-230-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 17:55:58 pkhuong: no it's not. 17:56:09 thanks again for the help 17:56:21 jasom: you must be right. 17:56:33 -!- DoctorDude [~DoctorDud@144.26.129.2] has left #lisp 17:57:16 -!- Demosthenex [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:57:28 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:57:41 (compiled-function-p (let ((sb-ext:*evaluator-mode* :interpret)) (eval '(lambda () (+ 1 2)))) 17:58:00 jasom: that's not the default configuration. 17:58:00 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.198.166] has joined #lisp 17:58:07 compiled-function-p is called in the default configuration, but it clearly is different from functionp 17:58:16 daimrod: getting the video out, as iti s right now (without access to the account) would mean a lot of hard work in eldritch internals of YT storage system 17:58:27 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:58:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:58:48 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 17:59:08 -!- hugod [~user@38.127.70.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:59:29 -!- bitonic` [~user@146.169.25.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:30 pkhuong: replace the (let ...) with any black-box that happens to return an interpreted function. Just because you have to work to make a value that shows they are different doesn't mean that they are the same predicate 17:59:43 I don't see anything problematic about saying "usually" and adding a forwarding pointer to the documentation for sb-ext:*evaluator-mode* there 17:59:46 send patches 18:00:07 bitonic` [~user@146.169.25.115] has joined #lisp 18:00:13 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 18:00:23 jasom: there is no such black box in the default configuration. 18:01:15 pkhuong: so it's true if you never touch sb-ext and no code you ever calls touches sb-ext. 18:02:08 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 18:02:10 you can even touch sb-ext; nothing there returns interpreted functions either. 18:02:24 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:02:41 pkhuong: well you brought up "defaut configuration" so I'm trying to figure out what the definition of that is 18:03:37 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-236-130.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 18:03:38 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-236-130.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:03:54 don't touch sb-ext:*evaluator-mode* 18:04:24 I think the point you are making is that no ANSI portable code will generate an interpreted function, so even though functionp and compiled-function-p are not the same predicate, without dissassmelbing them you won't be able to demonstrate this? 18:05:25 deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:05:41 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 18:05:59 even non-ANSI CL code. The vast majority of users do not touch *evaluator-mode*; for them that paragraph describes the situation concisely and clearly (even though we use the interpreter internally). 18:06:05 is there a CL naming convention for function names (in this case a defmethod) ending with a % (percent character)? 18:06:27 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:55 internal use. 18:07:14 pkhuong: I guess we just define "same" differently since even a casual glance at the disassembly will show that those two functions are quite different 18:07:30 jasom: they return the same value for the same input. 18:08:11 Distinct implementations of oddp still implement the same predicate. 18:08:19 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:08:20 pkhuong: not always, even in the default configuration; compiled-function-p uses more stack, so you could crash in certain corner cases (this is pedantic yes, but what is the meaning of "same"?) 18:09:06 ed_g: I don't think I've seen many or any *ending* with a % 18:09:25 ed_g: a % prefix is fairly common, though 18:09:43 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:10:03 jasom: I don't care that you believe that oddp and oddp are different predicates because one is iterative and the other recursive. 18:11:42 pkhuong: fair enough. We are talking about an implementation document though, so I assumed "collapsing into the same predicate" meant they had identical implementations; that may be naive of me 18:12:01 p_l: Ok, don't worry and thank you for taking the time to search. 18:12:26 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:12:35 daimrod: I'm interested, so I'll try seeing if I can contact someone for this 18:13:06 daimrod: though best way would be to contact someone handling personal items of Mr. Weinrieb and ask for help 18:14:02 jasom: for the vast majority of users the lie is much more enlightening than a convoluted and technically true comparison of the two predicates. 18:14:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:15:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:16:10 pkhuong: "collapsing into the same predicate" is more enlightening than "will return the same value"? 18:16:48 entrix_ [~entrix@95-25-85-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:17:43 -!- ed_g [~chatzilla@74-93-184-218-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:18:08 -!- entrix_ [~entrix@95-25-85-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 18:18:47 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:19:22 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.24.144] has joined #lisp 18:20:15 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.24.144] has quit [Client Quit] 18:20:16 -!- mjs2600_ [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:20 ed_g [~chatzilla@74.93.184.218] has joined #lisp 18:20:44 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 18:21:39 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:22:26 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:23:21 "In its default configuration, SBCL does not use its interpreter, and is essentially a compiler-only implementation of Common Lisp. That is, for all but a few trivial cases, 18:23:39 `eval` creates a lambda expression, calls `compile` on the lambda expression to create a compiled function, and then calls `funcalls` on the resulting function object. 18:23:49 This is explicitly allowed by the ANSI standard, but leads tosome oddities, e.g. every `function` is then also a `compiled-function`." 18:24:39 That's probably less odd than the semantic discrepancies allowed by the standard between interpreted and compiled code. 18:24:54 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:25:44 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 18:25:45 pkhuong: I think that works well 18:27:38 I honestly was confused in this instance by the language; taken with the section on the interpreter, I assumed that while you could use eval to interpret code, all functions were still compiled. 18:28:21 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:28:36 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19:01:51 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-236-130.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:05:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:06:32 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-60-85.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:08:38 hrm, there's not a swank function for reading input from the slime repl? 19:09:06 with properly working streams, (read) from *standard-input* should read from the repl stream, no? 19:09:20 possibly but that doesn't get you line editing etc i don't think 19:09:34 i was hoping for a unified input mechanism between like linedit and slime 19:09:40 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:10:01 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-236-130.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:10:32 oGMo: it gives you as much line editing as you usually get. 19:11:37 hrm true, due to the buffer bindings i guess you get history too 19:12:26 -!- gf3 is now known as gfecate 19:13:35 pretty much 19:15:20 -!- lggr 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quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:07:18 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:07:29 this is easier than I expected 21:07:34 -!- adam7504 [~adam@host86-183-194-94.range86-183.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 21:08:21 -!- rickardg [~user@c-96a0e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:09:00 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-108-200-141-236.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:09 what is ? 21:09:14 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:09:32 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:40 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 21:09:54 -!- gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-108-200-141-236.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:13:24 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:15:51 -!- dtm` [~dtm@67.121.157.253] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:16:29 steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 21:16:45 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:17:21 daniel [~daniel@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 21:20:03 bitonic` [~user@host86-133-192-169.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:57 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:02 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:21:25 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 21:21:59 -!- daniel [~daniel@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 21:22:16 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:22:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:23:34 -!- abend_ [~alx@75.148.54.129] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:23:59 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:24:42 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 21:25:44 wbooze: normally I write "parsers" with many regular expressions, this time I'm being serious and trying out cl-lex/yacc, and it's going pretty well so far 21:25:45 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 21:26:00 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:27:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:27:50 I've got a nice little lexer, and the parser isn't quite there yet but it seems to be going well 21:27:50 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.237] has joined #lisp 21:28:34 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:28:35 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:30:30 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:39 -!- findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:31:50 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:32:19 mstevens: regular expressions can only be used to write lexers, not parsers. 21:32:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:32:46 mstevens: you may want to try my rdp. LL(1) is simpler tha LALR(1). 21:33:03 But then, you need to have a LL(1) grammar for your language. 21:33:10 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has joined #lisp 21:33:30 pjb: I said "parsers" for a reason. I'm usually trying to deal with very simple things, this time around I'm trying to do something more complicated and properly. 21:34:02 http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/rdp/ 21:34:19 pjb: I've got a load of ABNF, I'm trying to translate that into cl-yacc 21:34:40 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:34:42 mstevens: I believe that the world 'parser' is applicable to things that parse LL(1) grammars. 21:34:51 There's also Zebu. I have a patched one with an asdf system in http://fossil.nasium-lse.ogamita.com/nasium-lse/dir?ci=c3196541aee4bbdb&name=dependencies 21:34:54 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:11 depends how regular your expressions are. if CL-PPCRE is perl compatible as advertised, it will be able to do balanced brackets at least 21:35:14 mstevens: write a parser for the ABNF and generate the cl-yacc grammar sexp. 21:35:17 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:35:30 not that I'd advocate trying to translate a CFG into PCRE 21:36:43 pjb: I can see the appeal, bu I feel like I should write at least one grammar before I start trying to autogenerate them 21:37:15 In any case, the important part is to put the grammar in the form adapted to the parsing algorithm. 21:37:22 pjb: this is partially an actual parsing mission, and partially an educational mission 21:40:10 DrPete: I'm more used to "parsing" really simple things like config files where you can knock together a few regular expressions and hope for the best. This is an experiment in doing more complicated things properly. 21:40:14 -!- bitonic` [~user@host86-133-192-169.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:40:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:48 fair enough 21:41:08 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:41:36 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:52 ioa [~xmike@dynamic2-248-005.usc.edu] has joined #lisp 21:41:57 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:56 Left_Turn [~Left_Turn@host86-179-194-137.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:43:11 deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:44:14 -!- lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:44:23 Xach: where can I find informations about libraries to be added to quicklisp? 21:44:24 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:45:11 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 21:46:56 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:49:41 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:50:47 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.232] has joined #lisp 21:52:50 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:53:31 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:54:25 cross_ [cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:39 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has left #lisp 21:56:40 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:56:56 H4ns: Would you mind if I asked you a German-language-related question off channel? 21:57:31 bitonic` [~user@host86-133-192-169.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:57:35 don't believe anything he says! he's a Berliner (; 21:58:00 meta questions are not on-topic. meta questions about out of topic subjects are even less on-topic! 21:59:08 lol, well, it's a really small thing, maybe I'll just ask here: i'm producing an audio cd master with CD-text, one of the pieces is Phantasiestücke, is it correct with current spelling to spell it as Phantasiestuecke these days? 21:59:22 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:59:25 s/is/are/ 21:59:45 if you don't have umlauts available, replacing ü with ue is valid. 21:59:52 -!- findiggle1 [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:00:00 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:28 THe charset for CD-text is a quirky thing  I want to be on the safe side and use 7-bit. 22:00:41 sounds good 22:00:44 thx 22:00:54 so yeah, Phantasiestuecke is good. 22:01:39 As long as you use (with-open-file (out "Phantasiestuecke" :direction :output ) ) to write it. 22:02:38 paul0 [~user@186.222.48.210] has joined #lisp 22:02:43 Actually, the filename will be ashton.cue. 22:02:46 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:02:51 -!- d3vnu11 [~devnull@174-30.60-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:51 A terrible composer, btw. 22:03:54 my mind appended a 'tcher" to that 22:06:16 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:06:37 findiggle [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has joined #lisp 22:08:42 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 22:08:49 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:10:08 Blkt`: github 22:10:18 Blkt`: specifically github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/issues 22:10:22 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.130] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:10:22 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-simuryguxsffntqd] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:10:58 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.86] has joined #lisp 22:11:02 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-112-017.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 22:11:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:12:19 -!- bitonic` [~user@host86-133-192-169.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:14:10 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:16:31 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:18:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:19:37 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:21:46 bitonic` [~user@host86-133-192-169.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:22:07 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:22:50 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:24:33 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 22:24:46 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Client Quit] 22:25:25 doomlord [~ceti331@host81-157-102-115.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:10 do any existing lisp macros resemble haskell 'where' 22:27:25 What does haskell 'where' do? 22:27:43 its like let, but backwards 22:27:58 so you write the top level expression...then the subexpressions with deepre nesting 22:28:05 -!- tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 22:28:43 i'm just thinking what woudl you call such a thing in prefix form :) 22:28:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:29:50 -!- SsvRrwQ` [~user@24.68.50.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:05 (defun gradient (x0 y0 x1 y1) (??? (/ dy dx) where (dx (- x0 x1)) (dy (- y0 y1)))) 22:31:29 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@82.208.57.182] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 22:31:56 (ass-backwards-haskell-mode (+ x y) :where ((x 10) (y 20))) 22:32:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:32:31 justinmcp [~justinmcp@13.47.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:32:42 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 22:32:52 obviously this is a trivial example, but something are clearer top down rather than bottom up 22:35:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:37:04 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:38:30 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:39:30 <_tca> no there is not a standard macro for this doomlord but it's about 1 line to make yourself 22:39:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:41:03 doomlord: ((lambda (dx dy) (/ dy dx)) (- x0 x1) (- y0 y1)) 22:41:10 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.28.149.98] has joined #lisp 22:42:13 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46.65.36.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:42:39 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:44:11 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 22:46:47 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:48:34 ah. lambda is the right answer. 22:48:52 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:49:41 that is the right answer if you want nobody who knows lisp to understand your code 22:50:14 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c1a21.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:26 lambdas all over theplace are idomatic lisp surely :) 22:50:51 doomlord: (defmacro where (expression &rest bindings) `(let ,bindings ,expression)) (where (+ x y) (x 1) (y 2)) --> 3 22:51:35 yeah i figured it would be pretty trivial 22:51:41 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:52:13 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-108-200-141-236.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:21 doomlord: no, it's highly unidiomatic. I know the trick exists, I've had my share of exposure to haskell, and I never use it. 22:52:27 rickardg [~user@c-96a0e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:52:32 -!- wakeup_ is now known as wakeup 22:52:52 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:55 doomlord: you can also add "keywords": (defmacro doing (expression where &rest bindings) (assert (and (symbolp where) (string-equal where :where))) `(let ,bindings ,expression)) (doing (+ x y) where (x 3) (y 2)) --> 5 22:52:55 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:53:16 doomlord: you can also be more ambitious, and write a macro named eg. haskell that implement the whole haskell syntax. 22:53:31 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-108-200-141-236.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:53:34 like the loop macro implements the whole loop syntax. 22:54:23 i was thinking of trying this: a set of keywords, each of which binds to the same macro - collecting the keywords from the body & concatenating them, then dispating that function 22:54:41 if where for in from to etc ... generic words like that 22:54:56 You can imagine anything you want for a DSL. 22:54:58 then you make functions eval-where-if etc 22:55:01 Have fun. 22:55:26 (almost like a "mixfix" function, but from a set of predetermined keywords) 22:55:27 Lisp is good at meta-linguistic programming: invent new languages with lisp macros! 22:55:35 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-108-200-141-236.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:41 -!- rickardg [~user@c-96a0e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:56:53 -!- gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-108-200-141-236.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:57:47 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:59:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:00:04 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-108-200-141-236.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:00:41 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:01:23 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-220-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:49 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-98-117-94-43.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:02:18 -!- agumonkey [~agu@208.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:04:16 pjb: it's good that Lisp is not good at neuro-linguistic programming ;-) 23:04:45 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:38 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:06:17 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:07:26 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:09:56 user123abc_ [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:58 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 23:10:04 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-220-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:44 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:11:20 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:37 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-220-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:13:50 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:14:18 -!- gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-220-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:14:45 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:56 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:17:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:19:06 killerboy: why shouldn't it? 23:20:09 gridaphobe [~gridaphob@128.54.41.84] has joined #lisp 23:20:58 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:22:03 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:43 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-149-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:50 reactormonk: because neuro-linguistic programming is crap and Lisp isn't :-) 23:24:00 see ye 23:24:03 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:24:05 daniel1 [~daniel@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 23:26:20 -!- bitonic` [~user@host86-133-192-169.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:26:22 Does anyone know how I _really_ build ccl from source? E.g. cross compiling 23:26:25 steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:26:53 wakeup: that's not always possible. 23:26:56 -!- daniel1 [~daniel@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 23:27:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:27:30 doomlord: late and not sure if answered nicely already, but the following would work: (defmacro do-where (form &body assignments) `(let* ,assignments ,form)) use like (do-where (+ a b) (a 100) (b (1+ a))) indents nicely under slime 23:28:21 pkhuong: why is that? 23:28:55 because that's how the authord decided to bootstrap some systems, decades ago. CMUCL is a particularly egregious case. 23:29:37 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:59 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:30:38 cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has joined #lisp 23:33:45 -!- user123abc_ [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:59 user123abc_ [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:11 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.136.147] has joined #lisp 23:35:04 -!- My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:35:48 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 23:36:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:35 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:40:05 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:41:26 -!- gridaphobe [~gridaphob@128.54.41.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:45 #ta 23:41:50 sorry 23:42:32 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@13.47.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:24 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:47:00 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:47:03 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: guyal] 23:48:31 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:49:37 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 23:50:32 I like how ocaml can bootstrap the native copmiler with an image of the bytecode copmiler 23:50:32 Fare, memo from redline6561: Thanks for your notes. And yeah, the trick for pham-nuwen will be to just delay the release indefinitely. ;) 23:51:09 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 23:54:33 -!- cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has quit [Quit: cic__] 23:54:53 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:55:06 cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has joined #lisp 23:55:27 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@37.147.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:57:20 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:58:29 -!- Blkt` [~Blkt@82.84.182.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]