14:20:59 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:59 14:20:59 -!- names: ccl-logbot Praise lggr sohakes chimay mpstyler jlf alvis stassats martian-c sysop_fb Alice3 jcazevedo derrida Vivitron howeyc Mon_Ouie KingsKnighted bashed kpreid jtza8 gravicappa gko ramkrsna urandom__ antonv stokachu TristamWrk hlavaty zbigniew Viaken sbryant sshirokov redline6561 yan_ kiuma peterhil bitonic homie` fantazo francisl kanru answer_42 zolk3ri Jasko mucker add^_ peterhil` ignas TDJACR Cymew tcr Thra11_ Demosthenes CampinSam nha_ killerboy 14:20:59 -!- names: xan_ Vutral b0ef````` tsuru`` hugod lemoinem DrForr xaxisx frodef CrazyEddy SeanTAllen bps cibs tdmackey agumonkey JPeterson hkBst_ tritchey jjkola_work BeLucid axion sawjig Bacteria c_arenz ecraven fe[nl]ix am0c BlastHardcheese snorble_ punee stepnem prxq ltbarcly1 EyesIsMine teggi foreignFunction theos benny kleppari mcsontos fengshaun xpoqz eli Khisanth saschakb leo2007 quasisane naiv Ralith Yuuhi` duko huangjs Codynyx madnificent kyle__ otwieracz 14:20:59 -!- names: ArmyOfBruce Patzy Subfusc ianmcorvidae |3b|` specbot daimrod ered rtoym Yamazaki-kun cods djinni` rdd _tca ZombieChicken ASau`` s0ber boyscared les clog Oddity kuzary karswell_ bobbysmith007 dan64 rpgsimmaster quazimodo tessier NimeshNeema vsync gabot [SLB] abeaumont JuanDaugherty basho aoh_ setmeaway2 Quadrescence herbieB_ loke ft jeekl ace4016 pkhuong limetree tali713 Odin- superflit Spion Kvaks cryptic __class__ Bucciarati aegray_ robonyankitty dfox 14:20:59 -!- names: magnificrab rjmt__ yeltzooo dsp_ rvchangue dRbiG egn Tristam easye df_ angavrilov cmatei PECCU hiredman Krystof ivan\ literal_ pok jasom rfgpfeiffer slava_ lionping rotty_ mtd trigen_ keltvek newcup rvirding strobegen vert2 Zemyla lcc cmm Nisstyre sellout42 Euthy` cataska_ Borbus_ kyl foo303_ cyphase mikaelj jnbek|wc_ zmyrgel` minion foom The_third_man rookiebrawnpower spacefrogg nitro_idiot oGMo jaxtr cmbntr johs felideon hpd sweet_kid kirin` froydnj 14:21:00 -!- names: joshe cYmen Yahovah_ drewc ozzloy tkd brendyn mal__ jasox Obfuscate fmu nightfly_ weinholt guaqua pareidol1a Axioplase gemelen flip214 arbscht astopholos_ nuba smithzv antifuchs tvaalen_ Jabberwockey ineiros_ turbolent aerique phadthai Mandus arnsholt reactormonk Tordek scharan z0d DGASAU` pinterface PuffTheMagic ezakimak tomaw housel Buglouse clop hswe lusory scode bzzbzz_ drdo elliottcable wchun eMBee jsnell SHODAN _schulte_ srcerer rabite surrounder 14:21:00 -!- names: cpape` Netfeed MikeSeth sytse Adeon j_king asciilifeform pavelpenev araujo zort- joast p_l setheus ski pchrist felipe antoszka pjb ramus fasta macrobat jrockway gensym barik oconnore jayne terjesb faheem freiksenet qsun H4ns xristos vhost- _root_ yroeht finnrobi copec sykopomp samebchase AntiSpamMeta hohum Amadiro galdor schoppenhauer Natch jji __main__ em impulse ``Erik renard_ dim billstclair Mazingaro nullman gilez deadghost guther fihi09 Faed 14:21:00 -!- names: cracauer_ kennyd froggey sigjuice konaya wccoder nonguest nicdev acieroid adeht theBlackDragon cpt_nemo 14:22:00 -!- alvis [~user@tx-184-6-178-205.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:23:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:23:39 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 14:24:01 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 14:26:22 prip [~foo@host80-130-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:28:35 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:30:30 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.86] has joined #lisp 14:32:38 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 14:33:08 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:36:09 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:37:53 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:37:59 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:38:26 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.48] has joined #lisp 14:39:37 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:42:02 does anyone have a working email address for swm? is ita address bounces. 14:42:10 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:45:05 tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.16.99] has joined #lisp 14:45:17 H4ns: You know he left ITA, right? 14:45:42 o rly ? 14:45:54 he didn't blog about it 14:46:47 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-70-127.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:49:01 -!- aoh_ is now known as aoh 14:51:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:52:08 -!- sohakes [~sohakes@186.207.99.234] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:53:52 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-obvjekyaafxxpidn] has joined #lisp 14:53:52 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-obvjekyaafxxpidn] has quit [Changing host] 14:53:53 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:54:48 flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 14:54:48 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 14:54:48 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 14:56:16 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:56:32 -!- jnbek|wc_ is now known as jnbek|wc 14:58:15 postfuturist [~sgoss@chirashi.kavi.com] has joined #lisp 14:58:51 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:59:32 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:27 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:01:47 -!- mpstyler [~mpstyler@176.73.151.79] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 15:03:50 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:05:08 mpstyler [~mpstyler@176.73.151.79] has joined #lisp 15:08:33 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:09:28 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0b179d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:12:54 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:13:40 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-67-128.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:43 sykopomp: pomo:doquery? 15:16:47 dim: not quite what I need, but I guess reading through doquery might point me in the right direction. 15:17:03 although i don't think that's a postgres cursor, per se (which you can rewind and do other operations on) 15:17:06 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:17:13 at least it allows for taking control on a row-by-row basis client side 15:17:29 I don't remember out of hands if it's using server side cursors 15:18:25 s-sql doesn't support cursors 15:21:34 but you can do (pomo:with-transaction () (pomo:query (:raw "declare foo cursor for select * from tbl;"))) 15:22:06 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:22:12 fe[nl]ix: can you do anonymous cursors? 15:22:17 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:34 no 15:22:45 use the usual gensym trick 15:24:14 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:25:36 you can also have server side cursors that last more than a single transaction, though pg will materialize them completely in the server memory 15:26:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:26:20 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-137.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:26:38 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:47 fe[nl]ix: does postgres give drivers access to that, in general, or are anonymous cursors only available within pl/pgsql? 15:27:25 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 15:27:38 start here, http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.2/static/sql-declare.html 15:28:13 you can use them as any other type of query 15:28:38 cool. Thanks! 15:31:15 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:31:28 I think you might be able to have unnamed portals from the protocol, you can only have 1 of them in flight of course, and they terminate with the transaction 15:31:42 not sure that's available for clients though, that's internal 15:31:51 trying to decipher 15:32:47 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:32:52 ah yes I missed that at first reading, sorry 15:32:53 In the extended protocol, the frontend first sends a Parse message, which contains a textual query string, optionally some information about data types of parameter placeholders, and the name of a destination prepared-statement object (an empty string selects the unnamed prepared statement). 15:33:05 http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.2/static/protocol-flow.html#PROTOCOL-FLOW-EXT-QUERY 15:33:31 if you use Parse/Bind/Execute you can use unnamed portals 15:35:11 Once a portal exists, it can be executed using an Execute message. The Execute message specifies the portal name (empty string denotes the unnamed portal) and a maximum result-row count (zero meaning "fetch all rows"). 15:35:39 well, you can read for yourself 15:35:45 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:36:16 short answer is yes, at the protocol level, you can have unnamed portals, one at a time, closed at end of transaction automatically 15:39:11 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-70-127.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:40:14 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:44:49 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:45:20 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:46:11 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:46:21 jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.248] has joined #lisp 15:46:43 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-137.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 15:47:21 -!- 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[arenz@nat/ibm/x-ueaczccniefybfyt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:10:52 how terrible 16:10:56 lol 16:11:26 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-78-211.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:11:37 *wbooze* checks his sarcasmometer! 16:11:40 fewwwwwwww 16:12:17 doomlord [~ceti331@host81-157-102-115.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:06 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:38 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:15:04 -!- tsuru`` [~user@adsl-74-179-198-26.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:15:13 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 16:15:41 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:17:04 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-26.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:07 dardoria [~boiantz@130-204-58-219.2074625074.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit 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timeout: 268 seconds] 17:09:31 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:10:01 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 17:10:46 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-247-138.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:10:49 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.217] has joined #lisp 17:12:23 -!- dardoria [~boiantz@130-204-58-219.2074625074.ddns.cablebg.net] has left #lisp 17:13:49 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:14:23 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:18:02 hrm .. is it not valid in cffi to use a c-enum as a return type to a callback? 17:18:37 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:18:42 i have a simplified reproducible crash case in sbcl for 1.0.58 17:18:45 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:19:44 my main concern is there's still a bug somewhere and the stack is just not bashed enough most of the time to notice it 17:20:56 add^_^ [~add^_@m90-131-125-57.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 17:21:09 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:07 DrPete [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has joined #lisp 17:23:17 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-5-190.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:23:17 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 17:23:25 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:26:17 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:27:33 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:29:11 https://gist.github.com/fa8f380a218b55b4ae6a 17:29:29 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:01 -!- Bike [~Glossina@192.102.5.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:30:22 for me this crashes every time with 1.0.58 on amd64 17:30:46 but, i'm not sure if i'm doing something stupid, or if it's really a bug somewhere 17:32:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:32:50 can't it be both? 17:33:03 heh 17:36:28 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:37:47 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 17:38:46 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:40:47 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-178-229.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:40:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:42:04 _d3f [~d3f@79.172.193.130] has joined #lisp 17:42:41 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:43:08 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 17:43:12 -!- martian-c [4df0b80f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.240.184.15] has left #lisp 17:44:31 [SLB]` 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closed the connection] 18:14:57 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:16:00 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 18:16:14 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:16:48 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:51 aslan69_ [~aslan69@67.51.189.130] has joined #lisp 18:16:52 -!- aslan69 [~aslan69@67.51.189.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16:52 -!- aslan69_ is now known as aslan69 18:17:16 -!- kirin` [telex@anapnea.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:17:58 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:18:42 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:19:28 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 18:19:39 -!- chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9-rc1] 18:20:19 -!- aslan69 [~aslan69@67.51.189.130] has quit [Client Quit] 18:20:36 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:21:22 -!- My_Hearing is now known as Mon_Ouie 18:21:55 metaobject [~mlm@pool-173-66-86-231.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:19 mtl_ [~mtl@glisp.org] has joined #lisp 18:23:44 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 18:24:41 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24:52 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 18:25:22 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:25:46 I can't seem to get any real debug info using sbcl with slime 18:25:54 even though I have debug set to 3 18:26:23 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:07 What is your definition of "real"? 18:27:18 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Client Quit] 18:27:30 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 18:28:20 eni [~eni@82.230.88.217] has joined #lisp 18:28:21 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:28:34 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 18:30:03 well, I only get 3 things: 2 errors from sb-kernel and ("foreign function: #") 18:30:09 I can usualy get the debug info I want with SBCL and SLIME, but maybe what I wan't isn't what you want. 18:30:24 kirin` [telex@anapnea.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:24 nothing about which function it occurs in, the local bindings etc 18:30:31 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.200.20] has joined #lisp 18:30:35 mtl_: Weird. Can you paste the backtrace? 18:31:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:31:59 http://paste.lisp.org/display/132036 18:32:39 that's the backtrace from introducing a call to an undefined function inside a defun 18:32:41 and calling it 18:34:21 antgreen [~user@out-on-155.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 18:34:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:35:04 That simple? 18:35:46 it's simple, sure, but even for something so simple I should get the local environment, right? 18:36:18 mtl_: No, I mean, is that really what you're doing? I can't reproduce...I get a nice backtrace. 18:36:33 yes, that's what I'm doing 18:36:36 What does the code look like? 18:37:44 like this: (defun foo (bar baz) (add-together bar baz)) 18:38:25 -!- metaobject [~mlm@pool-173-66-86-231.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:38:44 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:39:00 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:39:10 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:39:20 mtl_: When I have a function like that in a source file, and use C-u C-c C-c to compile it, and call it with some arguments, I get pretty good info. 18:39:24 http://paste.lisp.org/display/132036#1 18:39:30 I wonder how our setups differ. 18:39:37 how did you build or install sbcl? what version? can you reproduce with binaries from sbcl.org? 18:40:00 I installed it with binaries from the arch repos 18:40:08 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.247] has joined #lisp 18:40:10 and the version is 10.0.58 18:40:17 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:39 Xach: I used C-c C-c if that matters 18:40:51 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:41:58 yeah doubt it 18:42:09 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-8-168.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:42:48 it does matter C-u C-c C-c compiles with full debug info 18:43:37 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:44:08 C-u C-c C-c didn't change anything 18:44:43 I also get the same thing in sbcl without slime 18:44:47 so I guess it's sbcl 18:45:14 I'd guess it's arch, really. they have a history. 18:45:43 well, I'll try with the sbcl.org binaries 18:45:58 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:46:36 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-242-235.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 18:46:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.43.178] has joined #lisp 18:46:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.43.178] has quit [Changing host] 18:46:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:47:00 ^pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:47:35 -!- ^pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:47:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:48:03 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:26 ^pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:49:24 hmm, that actually worked 18:50:54 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 18:51:45 let me check out the abs pkgbuild for it 18:51:51 mtl_: with the exception of cmucl, all the lisps on my machine were compiled by me. I never install from distro repos. 18:52:16 joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has joined #lisp 18:53:19 mtl_: look for fomit-frame-pointer 18:53:25 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 18:53:54 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:54:07 there's a file in there called "arch-fix.lisp" 18:54:28 just some pathname stuff 18:56:00 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:56:19 bah, it could use (sb-ext:set-sbcl-source-location ...) 18:57:50 I can't see fomit-frame-pointer 18:58:17 it does enable :sb-thread, :sb-core-compression 18:58:22 and disable :largefile 18:58:28 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 18:58:34 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-178-229.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:59:59 Xach: ? 19:00:36 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:00:53 mtl_: does the pathname stuff have a lot of logical pathname translation setup stuff? 19:02:23 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:02:47 definitely 19:02:52 let me upload it 19:03:05 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:03:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:03:49 it could use (sb-ext:set-sbcl-source-location ...) instead, which does the same thing. 19:04:10 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-163-100.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 19:04:41 http://paste.lisp.org/display/132037 19:05:24 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:08:24 sabalaba [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:25 -!- TDJACR [~TDJACR@lilug/member/tdjacr] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:08:31 any of you guys use emacs/auctex? 19:09:59 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:10:29 Xach: is that relevant to my problem? 19:11:20 <^pnpuff> pavelpenev: why you never install from distro repos? 19:11:39 oops wrong chan 19:11:44 mtl_: Only in a very, very loose way. 19:12:23 ^pnpuff: usually they are very old, but also, I like looking at giant output from compilation :) 19:12:42 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:13:06 <^pnpuff> it's relaxing! 19:13:13 in the sense that I'll probably have to compile it myself, at which point I'll need the fix, and I might as well do it right? 19:14:40 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:14:44 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:14:47 mtl_: No, in the sense that it's slightly inelegant and if you wanted to improve the arch system for other sbcl arch users it would be slightly nice. It doesn't "fix" anything but some slight grossness. 19:15:53 -!- lcc [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 19:16:04 sure, if I figure out a build that works I could post it on the AUR 19:16:34 there is one build on the AUR that compiles the latest git version 19:16:40 and it uses the exact same fix 19:17:28 <^pnpuff> a build that compiles? 19:17:48 pkgbuild 19:19:04 it's a make type script that tells makepkg how to build a package 19:19:18 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:23:07 atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has joined #lisp 19:23:46 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:23:54 mpstyler [~mpstyler@176.73.151.79] has joined #lisp 19:24:37 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 19:24:57 -!- rookiebrawnpower is now known as THREEfG 19:25:18 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-006-004.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:27:30 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:45 -!- b0ef````` [~user@52.168.102.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27:52 b0ef````` [~user@52.168.102.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:28:10 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:29:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:30:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:32:08 -!- mpstyler [~mpstyler@176.73.151.79] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:32:44 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-137.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:32:54 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:33:40 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 19:33:40 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 19:33:40 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 19:34:34 I just need to figure out what's causing it so I can build without it 19:37:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:37:56 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:38:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.215.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:38:41 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:40:37 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 19:41:51 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:46:13 -!- antgreen [~user@out-on-155.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:46:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:46:19 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:49:18 lggr 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20:42:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:43:55 <^pnpuff> PuffTheMagic: YaTeX it's pretty good. but there are many alternatives (http://emacswiki.org/emacs/LaTeX). 20:44:32 i just started entertaining the idea of using emacs to do my latex editing 20:44:50 actually, using emacs in general 20:45:00 <^pnpuff> _good_ idea!! :) 20:45:05 lol 20:45:29 I've been thinking about getting more into emacs than "that program I write lisp in" 20:45:40 AucTeX is the state-of-the-art 20:45:56 ya its not bad 20:46:05 but i was using aquaemacs 20:46:18 and was looking for a way to replace the bibtex button with a biber button 20:46:21 so i didnt have to go into the menu 20:46:26 <^pnpuff> which state? lol 20:46:31 but that is sorta not a huge deal 20:46:56 -!- ^pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: .] 20:46:58 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 20:47:07 mtl_: im trying to start using it for lisp 20:47:16 and other things if i can get used to it 20:47:16 -!- atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving, leaving, gone...] 20:47:38 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:35 atsidi [~user@mail.tai.edu] has joined #lisp 20:49:01 my main issue so far with using emacs is not having a pdf renderer that updates dynamically 20:49:04 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:49:43 PuffTheMagic, whizzytex 20:49:47 that will do that 20:51:08 but thats dvi 20:51:29 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:51:58 PuffTheMagic, oh, why does it matter 20:52:17 cause I build with pdflatex only 20:52:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-209.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:04 PuffTheMagic, pdflatex does tex -> dvi -> pdf 20:53:13 so I don't see why looking at a dvi matters 20:53:51 Quadrescence: does pdflatex really go through dvi? 20:54:15 stassats, all tex should 20:54:16 i didnt think it did, which is why i questioned it 20:54:56 a dvi is produced and then dvips or dvipdf is called, sometimes dvips then ps2pdf/pstopdf 20:55:15 Quadrescence: well, that's not the case with pdftex 20:55:25 i could be mistaken 20:55:48 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 20:56:25 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@7.186.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:56:38 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:58:11 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:58:48 i dont think this works on mac either 21:00:28 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:01:51 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:36 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:03:44 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:39 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:22 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:41 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:17 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:09:09 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.84.83] has joined #lisp 21:10:24 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-72-75.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:46 -!- atsidi [~user@mail.tai.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:06 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:13:42 simon_ [simon@213.133.123.151] has joined #lisp 21:14:06 does one get unpopular for asking elisp questions here? 21:14:16 yes 21:14:36 people get killed here for less 21:15:14 I know kung-fu, so I'll give it a shot. :) 21:15:32 when (kbd ...) is a macro, I can't figure out how to do e.g. (kbd (car (list "C-n" 'dabbrev-expand))) 21:15:33 don't 21:15:40 #emacs is that way 21:18:11 simon_: no, really, this channel is very much not for elisp. 21:18:26 simon_: you may as well /join ##c and ask them your elisp questions there. 21:19:01 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-240-40.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:19:24 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.200.20] has left #lisp 21:19:41 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:20:06 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:20:13 To anyone else thinking about asking questions: take note that simon_ haven't said anything more. He's probably been kung-fu:ed to death. 21:20:23 s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-197-43.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:31 -!- eni [~eni@82.230.88.217] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:20:47 tvaalen_: he would have gotten answers if they were common lisp related. 21:21:38 simon_: have a look at http://cliki.net/IRC 21:21:56 well, elisp is certainly more related to cl than this meta discussion :) 21:21:59 you can ask lisp elisp questions on #lisp-lab, or of course on #emacs. 21:23:10 (but for example, #emacs discussing of about anything but emacs in general, I stopped joining it) 21:23:12 I understand -- my question is related to specific emacs macros. I'm still new at macro programming, so it doesn't always occur to me that one can't derive a macro's behaviour from a small subset of the most common lisp (not as in common-lisp) language definition. :) 21:23:45 ehu, perhaps. But there's nothing that says people don't get kung-fu:ed to death even after getting answers to their questions. 21:23:51 Specifics of emacs are best discussed on #emacs anyways. 21:24:17 mrSpec [~Spec@89-78-118-138.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 21:24:18 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-78-118-138.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 21:24:18 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:24:23 in #lisp-lab we'd discuss about elisp in general, not with editing specific operators. 21:24:48 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24:54 so far I've gotten one response, which is "your emacs 24.2 (kbd ...) is a macro? mine's a function!" :) 21:25:09 dolist is available in clisp as well, right? 21:25:20 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:25:24 it's not called clisp, though 21:25:37 common lisp isn't called clisp? 21:25:41 nope 21:25:41 no 21:25:46 clisp is GNU CLISP 21:25:51 sigh! 21:25:53 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:25:53 which is one implementation of CL 21:26:00 we say Lisp or CL here. 21:26:03 ok. 21:26:04 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:16 simon_: type C-h f kbd RET to see what it is. 21:26:21 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 21:26:41 simon_: dolist is different when you (require 'cl) in emacs 21:26:43 tvaalen_: well, 10 years ago I was a CL beginner as well. I've had great help from this channel since then, even when others didn't. I guess it's mostly a matter of attitude for those who are on-topic but still get kung-fu-ed. 21:26:53 pjb, it's a macro, that I know. I am just annoyed that I can't simply do (kbd (car ...)) and I have to do (kbd "C-z"), e.g. 21:27:23 simon_: often macros just call an underlying function. You can also call that function. 21:27:46 pjb, from having read a little Land of Lisp, I am sure Lisp never behaves like I expect it in the details. ;-) 21:27:52 simon_: a easy way to see what function it is, is to macroexpand the macro, type: (pp (macroexpand (kbd "C-a"))) C-u C-x C-e 21:28:11 speaking of implementations (sorry if this is better targetted elsewhere), if I was interested in writing one, should I be following the ANSI spec or the HyperSpec? i was looking into this earlier and noticed that both are copyrighted/restricted in various ways 21:28:14 Land of Lisp is about Common Lisp. emacs lisp is different, in the details. 21:28:28 DrPete: both contain the same text. 21:28:34 can you discuss all that in emacs or this #lisp-lab? 21:28:43 DrPete: and you would follow none of them: both contain bugs such as prog2 being defined as prog1 21:29:09 pjb: I see, thanks 21:29:53 pjb, right. I thought about digging up the actual function, but the whole reason I'm doing this is because I want something short and neat... 21:30:23 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 21:31:59 -!- ASau`` is now known as ASau 21:32:04 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:34:26 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:35:56 DrPete: read LiSP Lisp in Small Pieces http://pagesperso-systeme.lip6.fr/Christian.Queinnec/WWW/LiSP.html http://pagesperso-systeme.lip6.fr/Christian.Queinnec/Books/LiSP-2ndEdition-2006Dec11.tgz 21:36:57 will do, thanks 21:36:58 DrPete: you should just discourage yourself from writing a new one 21:37:17 simon_: if you want something short, just write (defun k (k) (read-kbd-macro k)) and use (k (car )). 21:37:24 nobody needs another semi-complete, buggy, slow implementation 21:37:39 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:37:59 DrPete: I would encourage you to write new CL implementations. It will be easier to give it extraordinary features than trying to put them in most existing implementations. 21:38:29 i doubt it'll ever see the light of day for public use but I thought it'd be an interesting exercise, and I -might- find it useful to target a different platform like llvm at some point (probably not) 21:38:43 pjb, thanks. 21:38:57 DrPete: you can retarget an existing implementation 21:39:21 DrPete: do it for js, the world needs more X-to-js compilers. 2012 is the year of compiling to js. 21:39:25 haha 21:39:33 2012? 21:39:35 For example, you may have a look at the source of the free implementations, and even reuse parts of them. But I often find that their code is too specific to their internals, and cannot be easily reused elsewhere. Even for "library" functions that could very well be written in pure CL. 21:39:42 Lisp is the Trotskyism of programming languages. :-D 21:40:21 http://ceaude.twoticketsplease.de/js-lisps.html 21:40:36 stassats: On the rare occasion I still check out Hacker News, there is a hight probability for a x-to-js compiler post on the front page. 21:41:01 The frequency increased this year. 21:41:08 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:41:29 superflit_ [~superflit@209-180-254-212.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:32 someone even made a Standard ML compiler to JS. 21:41:54 simon_: unthinkable! 21:42:08 "writing a compiler that targets JS" is the new "writing a scheme interpreter". 21:42:34 -!- superflit [~superflit@65-128-48-239.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:42:34 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 21:42:38 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 21:42:40 pavelpenev, it's neat because then everyone on the internet can use it without installing it! 21:42:59 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:43:03 pavelpenev, I wonder if everyone on the internet needs that many compilers for various deviant dialects of everything. 21:43:10 ostensibly, writing compilers is easy 21:43:16 It's not even on that list, but this one is pretty impressive: http://slip.lisperator.net/ 21:43:21 Why would anybody want to do that, when computing has never been so available? 21:43:52 -!- foo303_ is now known as foo303 21:43:54 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@82.208.57.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:48:04 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:49:12 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:50:33 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:51:10 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:51:15 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:55:04 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d010b7e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:57:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:00:22 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:00:50 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:02:29 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:02:33 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.48] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:59 so (a . b) is pure lisp syntax intended for list construction, even though it can also create pairs where the cdr isn't a list? 22:04:32 it's syntax for conses. 22:05:26 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:31 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.247] has joined #lisp 22:07:01 simon_: (a . b) is a cons. that's is intention; you don't use dot syntax for list construction 22:07:10 -!- agumonkey [~agu@235.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:17 its* 22:08:12 indeed, a list is the cons of anything onto a list 22:08:29 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:08:38 but there's notation for that as well 22:08:41 (a b) 22:09:00 which if you were to use cons notation would be (a . (b . nil)) 22:09:11 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:09:45 that gets cumbersome once the lists gets larger, so (a . b) isn't very useful for list construction 22:11:26 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:12:31 -!- jjkola [~androirc@212-226-43-49-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Quit: quit] 22:16:40 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-163-100.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:17:45 sohakes [~sohakes@186.207.99.234] has joined #lisp 22:17:55 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:18:33 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:37 -!- weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has left #lisp 22:23:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:25:37 steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:26:28 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:28:04 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:28:53 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:29:41 snearch [~snearch@f053009188.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:29:49 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:30:16 aslan69 [~aslan69@c-75-71-21-183.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:04 superflit_ [~superflit@65-128-61-237.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:34 -!- superflit [~superflit@209-180-254-212.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:31:35 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 22:35:24 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:38:46 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:38:55 simon_: there are no lists in CL. 22:39:16 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:41:53 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:43:43 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-67-128.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:10 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:44:20 clhs: list 22:45:18 well that didn't work, so: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/a_list.htm 22:47:46 bitonic [~user@93-40-107-27.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 22:47:55 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.140.109] has joined #lisp 22:48:37 -!- bitonic [~user@93-40-107-27.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:07 bitonic [~user@93-40-107-27.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 22:49:44 - 22:49:54 justinmcp [~justinmcp@13.47.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:49:58 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 22:50:20 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-131-125-57.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 22:50:23 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:52:40 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:53:17 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:57:05 -!- rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jsiyvlvutujoqlll] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:58:01 -!- NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gfdlfcagpvryrvtw] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:58:53 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:59:52 marzy [~zeh@82-68-16-14.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:01:20 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:02:20 NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jbipdzbqaurydwrr] has joined #lisp 23:05:22 -!- postfuturist [~sgoss@chirashi.kavi.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:06:37 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 23:06:43 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 23:07:24 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:07:24 simon_: what they are saying is: there are cons cells. a linked list can be constructed from cons cells. there is no type list, however you can build one from cons cells (however, the cons cells may as well represent a tree instead of a list). 23:08:50 -!- NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jbipdzbqaurydwrr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:50 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bicvhotmvkrtknwv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:51 -!- PuffTheMagic [u3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jmjkbtrltfjexcnc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:01 aib [kvirc@46.196.26.250] has joined #lisp 23:10:05 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:14:28 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:16:25 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@13.47.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:27 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:16:34 aib|2 [kvirc@46.196.26.250] has joined #lisp 23:16:39 NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uzhhueucslvdruok] has joined #lisp 23:18:36 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:19:18 agumonkey [~agu@235.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:26 atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:52 -!- aib [kvirc@46.196.26.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:20:18 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:01 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 23:23:00 -!- atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:24:26 rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jquqckyathhddelp] has joined #lisp 23:25:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:30:18 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:30:57 -!- NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uzhhueucslvdruok] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:10 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:47 -!- bitonic [~user@93-40-107-27.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:49 justinmcp [~justinmcp@13.47.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:37:18 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:37:37 peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 23:38:46 -!- rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jquqckyathhddelp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:29 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2093.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:41:33 -!- magnificrab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:41:51 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:42:00 -!- aib|2 is now known as aib 23:42:05 -!- aib [kvirc@46.196.26.250] has quit [Changing host] 23:42:05 aib [kvirc@unaffiliated/aib42] has joined #lisp 23:43:13 magnificrab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:06 This is hard to ask: I want to have a database of objects, their properties and rules regarding them. Maybe something like http://pastebin.com/8FwGqKSS . I don't want to have a formal grammer for writing those rules; simple "checker" functions for now will suffice, and I'll add keywords as in the example for the most common cases. Now: am I insane? Are there any best practices for such systems 23:45:41 that I should know about? Anything to help an experienced programmer but a LISP newbie? 23:47:12 the broken-message bit strikes me as not the best design. you're basically putting quoted code as part of the data structure. object-orientation might help. 23:48:13 PuffTheMagic [u3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wjhafrstfeolqxtk] has joined #lisp 23:48:42 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:49:09 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@13.47.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:59 hmm, okay. I'm more worried about the gigantic would-be macros "automobile" et al. I'm sure I can come up with a not-bad solution regarding the rules, but is this a good way to store data? macros-within-macros-mixed-with-functions-and-data 23:51:49 Oh, those are macros? I assumed those were supposed to be ad-hoc data structures. 23:52:56 yes. bad idea? 23:53:11 (type 'family) would be a simple enum with validation. (list-of-all-possible-types '(family, individual)) would come before it. 23:53:17 Yeah. Maybe use CLOS instead. 23:53:17 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:54:08 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053009188.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:55:13 -!- stokachu [~stokachu@50.58.87.197] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 23:55:45 justinmcp [~justinmcp@13.47.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:56:32 bitonic [~user@93-40-107-27.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 23:57:41 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:39 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tcbbsyxaxgpzymjn] has joined #lisp 23:59:28 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:59:46 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]