00:00:41 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:02:05 lammb [~lammb@host86-147-195-183.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:04:32 -!- null- [~null-@unaffiliated/null-] has left #lisp 00:06:01 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 00:08:13 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:09:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:10:01 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:10:26 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-95-30.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 00:10:53 Xach: no, the web arrived before I install gopher. 00:11:36 ftp has great advantages. 00:11:53 For example, no javascript, no ads, no facebook like button, etc. 00:13:30 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:15:32 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-39.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 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peer] 01:10:22 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:14 Yuuhi```` [benni@p5483B3A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:46 -!- Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483B8CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:14:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:15:56 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:22:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:24:06 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d8174ee.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:24:36 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:35 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:51 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.159.161.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:29:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:30:06 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@2602:306:cfc8:8c30:7965:737e:99ff:ac3] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:34:12 sabalaba [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:34 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.153.236.118] has joined #lisp 01:37:13 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:39:08 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 01:40:11 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:41:04 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-128-165.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 01:41:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:42:47 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.153.236.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:43:00 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-128-165.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:43:53 hello [6ff9a44e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.111.249.164.78] has joined #lisp 01:44:36 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-128-165.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:44:48 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.149.154.234] has joined #lisp 01:48:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:51:39 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:51:54 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [] 01:53:15 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:55:16 does anyone have PAIP - kindle edition? 01:56:37 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:59:48 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:00:20 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 02:00:27 Greetings lispers 02:04:39 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:11:00 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:13:54 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:15:52 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:18:31 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 02:21:49 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:33 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:23:22 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-147-75.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:23:34 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:26:09 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176441894.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:26:33 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 02:27:27 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:28:16 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176313954.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:29:31 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.163] has joined #lisp 02:32:15 agumonkey [~agu@235.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:35:28 -!- xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:39:43 -!- cibs [~cibs@219-87-142-18.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:40:02 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.114.197.90.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:41:40 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:41:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:43:29 I have a hard copy 60 cm from me. 02:49:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:53:37 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:59:37 sabalaba [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:44 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 03:00:43 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.149.154.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:00:47 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:01:45 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-16-147.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:02:43 Bike [~Glossina@207-224-16-147.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:01 -!- benny [~user@i577A7AB0.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:04:53 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:05:57 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:07:41 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:11:34 I have a hard copy 1.5m from me 03:11:52 I'm surprised that there is a Kindle edition. 03:11:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:13:01 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:13:46 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:14:00 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 03:18:25 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.146.208.163] has joined #lisp 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[~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 03:49:46 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.190] has joined #lisp 03:50:01 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:50:25 *Bacteria* has his ANSI Common Lisp within arms reach 03:50:45 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:50:45 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.190] has joined #lisp 03:50:50 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:52:21 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:59:30 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:59:54 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:04:33 kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-139-39-207.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 04:04:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:11:02 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:11:02 -!- axion 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[~mlm@pool-173-66-86-231.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:34 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 04:47:51 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:49:43 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:50:57 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 04:53:00 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:54:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:55:05 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:55:17 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.169.90.7] has joined #lisp 04:55:18 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.169.90.7] has quit [Changing host] 04:55:18 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 04:57:37 ``Erik [~erik@pool-108-3-186-191.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:40 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:03:08 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 05:05:03 kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.190] has joined #lisp 05:05:03 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.190] has quit [Changing host] 05:05:03 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:06:18 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 05:06:37 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 05:07:08 benny [~user@i577A11B9.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:08:14 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:09:39 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:11:13 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:11:33 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:36 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:15:04 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:17:23 superflit [~superflit@216-160-137-167.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:31 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:21:42 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:24:56 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:25:29 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:26:59 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:28:43 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:31:46 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:32:17 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@mobile-166-147-066-064.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:56 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:45 holycow [~start@69.172.160.27] has joined #lisp 05:35:02 hi guys 05:35:33 i have been tooling around in quicklisp, pal and hh-web. i have noticed a lot of this sort of nomenclature: (form :something :something) 05:36:13 the land of lisp book did not cover the :something type of nomenclature. can someone point me to reading material that explains what it is and how it works? 05:36:32 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 05:36:34 it's a keyword 05:36:46 You know how packages work, right? Like cl:let is "LET" in the CL package? 05:36:53 ah! finally, somethig to google. 05:37:22 Bike: its just that its used in pal an hh-web as well, i was not aware it was a keyword. 05:38:16 holycow: the keyword package is a special package. you can abbreviate keyword:foo with :foo. the specialness is that every symbol in the keyword package evaluates to itself. 05:39:04 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:39:15 neat! thx for the heads up. reading up on this. 05:39:40 jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has joined #lisp 05:40:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:41:40 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 05:47:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:47:27 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.200.20] has joined #lisp 05:48:44 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 05:48:45 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] 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[~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:06:04 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 12:06:33 hello. is there already a portable library for atomic instructions (sync-fetch-and-add, etc.)? [if not I would write one myself, but if so, that would be nice] 12:06:56 .j #mercury 12:07:20 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:08:05 schoppenhauer: https://github.com/sykopomp/memento-mori/blob/develop/src/utils.lisp I just wrote my own over a single CAS macro. 12:08:42 answer_42: look at bordeaux-threads, they might help 12:08:49 ah, sorry -- schoppenhauer ^^ 12:11:07 sykopomp: ok, then I will use memento-mori.utils. 12:11:14 flip214: http://lists.common-lisp.net/pipermail/bordeaux-threads-devel/2012-July/000210.html 12:11:30 schoppenhauer: I'd say just grab the macro itself. 12:11:31 sykopomp: thank you. 12:11:34 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:12:38 sykopomp: that mail is what I remembered - I thought that it has been taken into BT already. thx. 12:18:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:18:39 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 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quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:34:42 -!- Nisstyre_ [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:36:04 robde [~robde@p5085BD74.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:31 -!- robde [~robde@p5085BD74.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:39:35 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:42:19 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 13:44:38 i don't get it, i did all the same like that guy for his cyrillic input in mcclim, yet ,even put some of my keysysms there, it still complains about things like :ISO-LEVEL3-SHIFT being undefined or so, and i had to change that to : IISO-LEVEL3-SHIFTI but no effect either.... 13:44:41 Mazingaro [~Tetsuja@host110-237-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:45:20 even changed locales from the console..... 13:45:41 hmmm 13:46:06 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:47:25 the only thing i didn't do is say (keysym 0 #'blah) for the corresp. keysym in only put a (define-keysym :IblahI #/blabla) or so 13:47:37 s/in/i/ 13:48:34 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:48:54 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:51:02 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-123-225.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:53:21 teggi_ [~teggi@113.172.46.248] has joined #lisp 13:53:46 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-148-104.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:54:01 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-123-225.as43234.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:55:01 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.46.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:55:38 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-123-225.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:20 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:56:36 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:56:59 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Quit: http://www.cyphase.com/] 13:57:43 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:57:50 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-19-235.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 13:58:07 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-19-235.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:45 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:00:07 Is it possible to restart the inferior lisp in SLIME from the REPL? 14:00:21 didi: yes, ,restart-inferior-lisp is one way 14:00:50 Xach: Sorry. I meant something like (restart-inferior-lisp) 14:01:06 inf lisp dies, means, slime aborted connection.... 14:01:09 or tried to 14:01:12 -!- jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:01:19 it maybe stale now 14:01:26 i don't think you can do that 14:01:28 didi: a CL-side command? 14:01:33 Xach: Yes. 14:01:45 didi: There isn't. It's hard for me to imagine how that might work. 14:01:58 Xach: OK. Thank you. 14:01:59 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 14:02:12 jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.247] has joined #lisp 14:02:13 didi: ,r-i-l is meant to work from the REPL itself. 14:02:21 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:02:28 atsidi [~user@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:55 yes but with a working ilr maybe.... 14:03:16 if it's already gone.....dunno 14:03:46 kill inferior lisp and the repl, start slime again :) 14:03:58 heh 14:04:48 sykopomp: It's just because I'm having to restart the inferior lisp constantly and I thought would be a good idea to write a long sequence of forms instead of doing the , thing. 14:05:29 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 14:05:36 didi: (swank:eval-in-emacs '(slime-restart-inferior-lisp)) 14:05:41 Why are you constantly restarting? 14:05:58 pavelpenev: Thank you. 14:06:16 but you need to set slime-enable-evaluate-in-emacs to true 14:06:23 that is an emacs variable 14:06:40 2 mins ago I did not know I could do that :) 14:06:44 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 14:06:53 Xach: The foreign type system freaks out a little every time I reload a dynamic library. 14:07:03 +1 for interactive and explorable environments :) 14:07:08 :^) 14:07:11 Go pavelpenev! 14:07:14 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:07:20 paul0 [~paul0@189.114.197.90.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:07:55 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:01 heh 14:08:02 the fact that the error message told me the solution was nice as well :) 14:08:48 didi: "freaks out"? 14:09:22 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:09:45 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 14:09:51 pkhuong: Yeah. Weird, right? But I don't want/have to deal with it right now. 14:10:57 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Client Quit] 14:11:25 I haven't had my espresso yet; my telepathic powers are currently too weak to tell whether I find it weird or not. 14:11:43 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 14:12:01 pkhuong: Nah, that's fine. Trust me. I'm a stranger from the Internet. 14:12:05 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:12:41 jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 14:13:23 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-115-118.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:04 kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.193] has joined #lisp 14:14:04 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.193] has quit [Changing host] 14:14:04 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:16:16 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-123-225.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:18:32 tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.21.30] has joined #lisp 14:18:49 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:19:09 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:19:36 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:28 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 14:21:13 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:52 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:23:31 jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has joined #lisp 14:24:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:28:27 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 14:28:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:28:54 xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:29:23 gilez [~gdmalet@tux.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 14:30:04 postfuturist [~sgoss@chirashi.kavi.com] has joined #lisp 14:30:21 cfy` [~cfy@218.75.17.77] has joined #lisp 14:31:34 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:31:51 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 14:33:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:34:13 chawco [~craig@vpn.polarmobile.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:45 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:34:49 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:38:25 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:40:26 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-232-248.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:17 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 14:41:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.31.244] has joined #lisp 14:41:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.31.244] has quit [Changing host] 14:41:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:42:03 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:43:10 megamind [~Nevermind@113.190.182.83] has joined #lisp 14:43:21 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-115-118.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:43:25 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 14:43:27 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-171-9-98.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:43:46 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-148-7.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:45:26 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-232-248.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:45:28 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-148-7.as43234.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:54 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 14:47:54 If I've got a list of symbols, and two symbols, is there an easier way to get the order than (< (position ...) (position...))? 14:48:47 -!- bitonic [~user@93-40-122-126.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:48:56 flip214: "easier"? 14:49:10 (merge list-of-symbols (list s1 s2))? 14:49:18 -!- patience [~patience@CPE-121-218-240-135.lnse4.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:50:05 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 14:50:34 -!- cfy` [~cfy@218.75.17.77] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:51:12 so, of course that's not it 14:51:12 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-247-138.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:51:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:51:22 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-247-138.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:54:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:55:03 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 14:55:20 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:56:22 (find-if (lambda (x) (or (eql x a) (eql x b))) list) 14:58:00 aha? 14:58:59 <|3b|> (member b (member a list))? 14:59:44 -!- Xof [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:00:11 I have a sequence, and I want to take at most the first n elements of it. but subseq complains if I give a shorter sequence than the end index. (subseq "Hello" 0 20) is an error, I want it to give me "Hello", any ideas? 15:00:34 (or (find x list) (find y list)) 15:00:56 wait no 15:00:58 :( 15:01:10 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:02:07 (loop for x in list when (eql x a) do (return -1) when (eql x b) do (return 1)) 15:02:08 pavelpenev: write a function, take the length, min, etc. 15:02:52 H4ns: find-if works over all sequence types 15:03:39 pkhuong: but it returns the found value from the sequence, not some derived information (like in this case, the relative order) 15:03:43 (if (<= (length seq) end) seq (subseq seq 0 end)) I guess i'm an idiot :) 15:04:04 H4ns: compare the value it finds with a or b. 15:04:31 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:05:19 pkhuong: ok, so you've left out the conditional around the find-if. 15:06:19 H4ns: sure. (eql a (find-if ...)). But depending on the way the comparison will be used, there can be more direct ways to use the result of find-if. 15:08:10 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:10:06 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-utsywrupjeojgtkn] has joined #lisp 15:10:25 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 15:11:02 *pavelpenev* has added maybe-subseq to his utility library aka the bag of many sins. 15:11:52 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:12:23 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.48] has joined #lisp 15:12:29 utils.lisp :3 15:12:42 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 15:14:39 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:17 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:16:57 ISTR that there's a function that searches a sequence for the first of a list of values ... can't find it now. 15:17:46 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:18:55 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:22:54 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:36 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:25:24 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:25:43 bitonic [~user@93-40-122-126.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:27:28 find-if (lambda (...) (member ...) ? 15:27:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:28:30 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:57 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 15:31:18 I thought there's something in alexandria or somewhere 15:33:54 For storing a single class instance (but with child elements) into a single file - should I use elephant, or is there something easier? 15:34:00 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:34:07 can I create FASLs from a value? 15:34:12 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:34:49 what do you mena "create fasls from a value" ? 15:35:02 flip214: I like bknr.datastore as a simple persistence system. 15:35:06 oh, you mean, store a value in a fasl? 15:35:13 see the docs for MAKE-LOAD-FORM 15:35:15 if you can fit all your data in memory 15:35:17 You can compile-file "(defparameter *foo* '#.*foo*)" 15:35:55 I see they didn't add +1 to IRC yet. 15:35:58 *Fare* +1's pkhuong 15:36:48 flip214, elephant, rucksack, bknr.datastore, save-object, ... the options abound 15:37:10 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:37:23 Mm... I believe I promised Xach I'd write a quick library to hide that trick, a long time ago. 15:37:29 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:44 Fare: that's what's making it so complicated ;/ 15:38:24 I could never get elephant to work for me, and rucksack seems buggy and sbcl-only. Never even heard of save-object. 15:38:46 but if you want something *really* simple, cl-store might be the absolute simplest one. 15:39:04 it's more like python's pickle, whereas bknr.datastore, rucksack, etc, are more like databases. 15:39:16 compile-file is like python's pickle ;) 15:39:54 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 15:40:14 flip214, if you did through the options, I'm curious what you find. 15:40:35 I need something for xcvb, once I start working on a good xcvb backend again 15:40:35 i swear by elephant, albeit quite old 15:40:42 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-210-218.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:00 pkhuong: isn't there something about SBCL changing its fasl format semi-regularly? :) 15:41:04 why is compile-file limited to a file-stream as input, and cannot take a string-input-stream? 15:41:13 compile-file breaks if you upgrade your implementation, though. 15:41:44 sykopomp: yeah, we're just paranoid that way. I'd just blast the right magic. 15:41:57 Fare: that I wouldn't mind ... it's only a kind of cache anyway. 15:42:02 flip214, because no one cared to make it work 15:42:06 or you can use cl-store and get cross-implementation/version compatibility. 15:42:28 I don't think the format's ctually changed more than once in the last ~2 years. 15:42:33 i'm fetching an html page and i'd like to get the data from some tags out. is there some defactor standard library to do the parsing? 15:43:01 sykopomp, well, only if you don't store symbols that might be differently canonicalized depending on your implementation... 15:44:03 madnificent: I've used cxml-stp and closure-html for that 15:44:18 if the html is valid it works pretty well. :) 15:44:23 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:44:36 closure-html doesn't compensate for crappy markup? :( 15:45:00 well, you can always use the exception system, but not by default. 15:45:25 cl-store looks nice. 15:46:06 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 15:47:11 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:47:29 Fade: thanks, looking at closure-html right now 15:48:04 deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:48:55 thanks, ask my again in 2 weeks what I chose to use. ;) 15:51:47 -!- jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has left #lisp 15:53:56 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:55:41 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-19-23.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:42 50yo 15:55:59 er, nevermind. 15:56:27 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:59:39 gigamonkey, yes? 15:59:57 Sorry, wrong window. 16:00:02 HBTY, gigamonkey? :) 16:00:19 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 16:00:28 dim: nope. 16:00:47 have a nice day nonetheless :) 16:00:53 And you too! 16:01:49 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-78-211.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:01:59 yeah after all it's not my birthday either 16:02:10 -!- wuehli [~wuehlmaus@freeshell.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:02:48 HUTY 16:02:52 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:05:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:05:39 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:31 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-rppqijvyixwsctjn] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:37 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:06:46 -!- atsidi [~user@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:04 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 16:08:30 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:08:31 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:57 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:11:52 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:12:17 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-zokualjhwhzcracz] has joined #lisp 16:12:32 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 16:12:38 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-64.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:15:39 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:16:47 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:16:57 deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:18:47 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 16:18:58 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 16:19:18 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 16:19:31 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-95-30.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 16:22:03 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.21.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:22:55 tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.68.117] has joined #lisp 16:23:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23:25 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:25:21 -!- chawco [~craig@vpn.polarmobile.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:26:11 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 16:28:33 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:30:30 do it 16:31:24 doomlord [~ceti331@host81-157-102-115.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:31:45 Xach? 16:31:49 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:32:03 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:11 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:32:11 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 16:33:46 does commonlisp have an adhoc record constrctor, eg something like (setf a (make-record 'foo 2 'bar 3)) ==> a={foo:2, bar:3} ... i know there's probably other ways of grouping values and propper structs etc. 'anonymous struct with named items', i guess 16:34:01 doomlord: defstruct 16:34:11 doomlord: plists or alists. 16:34:21 *didi* <3 alists 16:34:25 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-67-128.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:15 pkhuong: yes 16:35:17 you! 16:35:30 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:36:33 doomlord: (defun mkhash (&rest keys-and-values) (alexandria:plist-hash-table keys-and-values)) 16:36:42 ok i'd heard of plists (list :foo 2 :bar 3) ... 16:37:01 ok 16:37:04 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:37:14 alists are '((:foo . 1) (:bar . 2)) 16:37:15 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 16:37:35 and may be accessed with assoc/rassoc 16:37:54 ah the fact its a single cons cell makes it unique? 16:37:55 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.66.134] has joined #lisp 16:38:03 (single cons-celll per item?) 16:38:13 ikki [~ikki@200.66.47.67] has joined #lisp 16:38:31 unique? You can have multiple identical keys in both plists and alists. 16:38:52 i mean distinct from other forms of plists 16:38:54 but assoc/getf will give you the first one (from the head of the list) 16:39:03 ok 16:39:07 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.66.134] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:39:16 eni [~eni@82.230.88.217] has joined #lisp 16:39:34 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.66.134] has joined #lisp 16:39:56 (interesting how writing a paper about it then fixing the paper to be easier to read forces me to cleanup my library a lot) 16:40:21 (happened also to a lesser extent for asdf -- though I had less leeway there due to backwards compatibility) 16:40:35 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.66.134] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:40:45 Fare: plan b: present planned improvements as existing features. 16:41:14 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.68.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:41:16 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.66.134] has joined #lisp 16:41:34 pkhuong: I did that three months ago when I submitted a draft paper for publication, then had to spend the next three months fulfilling the promise. 16:41:38 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc07-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:54 I don't have time for further improvements anymore 16:42:49 hi guys: there is something like to sbcl-internals for cmucl? thanks a lot! :) 16:42:51 I promised the automated translation between pure and stateful interface styles and between ips and oo. Got them. My it was hard. ~175 line macro with 19 levels of nestedness. 16:43:01 pnpuff, cmucl-imp 16:43:06 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-014-221.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 16:43:07 ok :) 16:43:50 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:44:53 (19 levels of nesting is the best showcase for the (nest ...) macro) 16:47:36 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.48] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:50:01 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:55:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:57:58 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:58:30 jasox` [~user@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 16:59:50 -!- jasox` [~user@178.239.26.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:13 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 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[~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 17:13:24 -!- lammb [~lammb@host86-147-195-183.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:35 sbenitezb [~sbenitezb@186.136.23.25] has joined #lisp 17:14:50 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-204-244-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:15:08 19 levels ? is that readable or understandable ? 17:15:56 =.=" You made me doubt myself about continuing my implementation of CL on .NET 17:16:30 19 levels is only required for advanced use 17:16:38 in most cases 13 to 15 should suffice 17:17:12 I thought any function shouldn't be larger than your head to be readable 17:17:18 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:17:44 logical or physical size? 17:17:57 yes , I mean physical size 17:17:59 =) 17:18:03 fare has a very large head. :D 17:18:05 where is this monster macro? 17:18:19 can I see the code ? =.=" 17:18:27 barometz [~dominic@pdpc/supporter/active/nazgjunk] has joined #lisp 17:18:35 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:18:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:19:11 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:19:28 It would be really awesome if it were 19 levels of backquote 17:19:34 unless that's what he meant. 17:20:00 nikodemus [~nikodemus@212-226-51-239-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 17:20:28 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:20:59 19 levels: paste the code! lol ;) 17:21:23 gimme the code ! 17:21:31 napa-fft3 generates even more deeply-nested code. 17:21:45 mmm wow 17:22:25 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 17:23:12 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Quit: ] 17:23:25 -!- barometz [~dominic@pdpc/supporter/active/nazgjunk] has left #lisp 17:25:10 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-014-221.wireless.sfu.ca] has 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[~user@cpe-24-90-72-207.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:19:26 tsuru [~user@adsl-74-179-198-26.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:53 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-svcfhxoziingpwee] has joined #lisp 18:21:42 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:21:52 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-36-224.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 18:22:40 im trying to start maxima with sbcl 18:22:59 but, i get some weird error related to quicklisp 18:23:17 previously i didnt experience this 18:23:22 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:23:24 but i updated quicklisp today 18:23:42 mcstar: what is the error? 18:23:49 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:24:16 http://sprunge.us/ZSbD 18:24:34 i can start sbcl otherwise just fine 18:28:43 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 18:30:25 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:31:13 deep hmms 18:32:55 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.163] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:32:56 idk where /build/.cache/... comes from, obviously it is an ivalid pathname 18:33:43 I vaguely remember a maxima-related asdf/quicklisp problem from the past 18:33:53 i can proceed with restart 6 18:33:55 Does maxima dump a new SBCL core or something? 18:34:54 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:34:54 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:35:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:35:28 fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-74-76.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:50 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-240-40.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:09 Where exactly does maxima come into play here? 18:37:02 If I use (export) eg. for accessors, a re-evaluation of the (defpackage) gives a warning "also exports ..." - and if it's during ASDF loading it's an error? 18:37:05 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-112-017.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:33 Does maxima build a new core or new executable or something? It seems to be carrying its build environment into runtime, if so. 18:37:39 Faed [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 18:37:42 where is that /build/ coming from? Badly setup environment variable or configuration file? 18:38:38 In the past there was a problem with maxima not clearing out the asdf-related configuration special values before dumping. I'll try to find the thread. 18:38:46 cracauer_ [cracauer@nat/google/x-divomkesahardzma] has joined #lisp 18:39:36 -!- sbenitezb [~sbenitezb@186.136.23.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:52 (asdf:reset-configuration) might help. 18:40:15 What version introduces that? 18:40:22 nah, it's (asdf:clear-configuration) 18:40:34 and it's from very early 2.000 series 18:41:44 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-139-39-207.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:41:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:42:50 flip214: the warning happens because re-evaluating a defpackage with a different export list from the pre-existing package has undefined consequences. 18:42:50 git blame says 2.121, a precursor of asdf 2.006, back in 2010 18:43:10 i.e. anyone using asdf 2 these days has (asdf:clear-configuration) 18:43:34 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-8-168.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 18:44:08 flip214, ASDF does something special to the ASDF package to avoid such errors. With other packages, you're on your own. Typically, I restart SLIME every time I did non-trivial package surgery. 18:44:24 JPeterson1 [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 18:44:43 magnific1ab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has joined #lisp 18:45:51 is (setf slot-value-using-class) supposed to be called during slot-makunbound? 18:46:48 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:46:54 I'd say no, but there's probably a bug in the protocol if there's no slot-makunbound-using-class 18:47:21 Fare: i see. thanks! 18:47:23 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:47:23 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-240-40.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:47:23 -!- cracauer [cracauer@nat/google/x-aivjcvflvgnyhydu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:47:24 -!- Modius [~user@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:47:24 -!- konaya [~konaya@c83-251-16-193.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping 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[SLB] [~slabua@host171-53-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 18:57:01 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 18:57:05 mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-165-159.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:57:09 sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:15 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.168] has joined #lisp 18:57:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has left #lisp 18:57:31 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.66.134] has joined #lisp 18:57:45 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 18:57:54 okapi [~okapi@ool-44c763d6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:45 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:59:09 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:25 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 19:01:34 dardoria [~boiantz@130-204-58-219.2074625074.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:38 -!- dardoria [~boiantz@130-204-58-219.2074625074.ddns.cablebg.net] has left #lisp 19:03:07 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:03:37 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:03:44 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.237] has joined #lisp 19:03:45 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:03:53 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:03:53 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 19:04:05 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:04:11 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:38 _d3f [~d3f@79.172.193.130] has joined #lisp 19:07:07 People here might want to go to this if they live close enough -- https://thestrangeloop.com/sessions/the-racket-way 19:07:31 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:07:32 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 19:08:12 stassats: hi! how's the rate limiter holding out the DDoS guy? 19:08:27 seems like he stopped 19:08:32 good. 19:08:43 I'll clean the iptables rules again. 19:09:00 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:20 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B3A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:42 wow. opening an ssh session is extremely slow though. 19:10:02 let me examine the logs to see how long it's been since it stopped 19:10:11 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 19:10:23 yeah, noticed that 19:10:34 Kvaks_ [~quassel@95.161.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:10:51 -!- macdice [~user@46-65-10-191.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:11:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:11:16 there's an sbcl running with 582MB virtual memory. 19:11:17 macdice [~user@46-65-10-191.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:11:21 hm, somewhat more than an hour, so maybe it's not stopped, just dormant, so i guess it's safe to leave the rate-limit for now 19:11:27 Houl_ [~Parmi@194.94.79.219] has joined #lisp 19:11:59 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:12:03 lcc_ [~lcc@75-173-78-244.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:17 foo303_ [foocraft@ibawizard.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:23 kyl_ [~kyle_dev@deathstar.tyrfingr.is] has joined #lisp 19:12:33 that's lisppaste's sbcl, i wonder what eats it 19:12:35 Borbus_ [borbus@85.17.58.106] has joined #lisp 19:12:36 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 19:12:37 hmm. already removed it. 19:12:40 Codynyx_ [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:46 pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 19:12:46 but I can reinstall quickly. 19:12:48 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit 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now known as rookiepawnshopow 19:26:19 -!- rookiepawnshopow is now known as rookiebrawnpower 19:26:58 robde [~robde@p50859DEB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:20 -!- Houl_ [~Parmi@194.94.79.219] has quit [] 19:28:04 Houl [~Parmi@194.94.79.219] has joined #lisp 19:29:06 -!- Houl [~Parmi@194.94.79.219] has quit [Client Quit] 19:29:33 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: .] 19:30:09 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:17 BlastHardcheese [chris@pool-71-110-60-114.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:41 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pool-71-110-60-114.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:30:41 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 19:31:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:32:01 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 19:32:03 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.253] has joined #lisp 19:32:54 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:33:01 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:33:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:34:31 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.66.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:35:56 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.48] has joined #lisp 19:36:43 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:39:49 -!- Zemyla [~zemyla@ec2-50-19-77-190.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:40:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:40:40 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-kitimtyyazyoxhen] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:40:53 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:41:04 Zemyla [~zemyla@ec2-50-19-77-190.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 19:42:05 ncw [~ncw@host86-139-4-54.range86-139.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:42:39 [1]mpstyler [~mpstyler@176.73.151.79] has joined #lisp 19:44:06 -!- ncw [~ncw@host86-139-4-54.range86-139.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:44:29 ncw [~ncw@host86-139-4-54.range86-139.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:44:44 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-240-40.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:50 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:44:53 lggr_ [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:46:13 -!- lggr_ [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:46:42 mcstar1 [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-36-224.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 19:46:55 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-eyqripgrhgesdsjr] has joined #lisp 19:48:39 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-240-40.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:39 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-36-224.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:48:42 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 19:48:44 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:48:45 -!- mcstar1 is now known as mcstar 19:50:27 are there any llvm backends for lisp? 19:50:52 doomlord: not a full one, there's SBCL package that allowed compilation of some stuff with llvm 19:51:26 a subset i guess 19:51:40 it's definitely doable, but if you wanted to do it right, you'd need to add some extra modules to LLVM (not extending the lib per se, but implementing things that aren't covered by "standard library" 19:51:44 people say its better than going via c 19:51:44 ) 19:52:01 doomlord: LLVM is basicaly a framework for dealing with low-level code 19:52:12 both compilation and other stuff, like static analysis 19:52:30 seems rather good 19:52:43 it's nice because there's a big pile of static analyses that have been written for LLVM that you immediately benefit from by outputting to it. 19:52:55 it's kind of C-oriented though. That's good because they actually fill the niche for C-like languages very well. 19:52:57 supposedly many optimizations work on its IR 19:53:07 there's no supposition about it 19:53:10 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-wxieaapkkhdkmqth] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:53:19 one thing you'd need to start with, IMHO, is create a few calling conventions for it to better deal with CL stuff 19:53:27 so it might not play so well with GC 19:53:37 doomlord: GC is orthogonal 19:53:48 doomlord: there are various ways to deal with that. 19:54:03 in fact, LLVM has built-in support for GC. 19:54:10 i heard of people creating a 'shadow stack', sounds like a bit of a hack.. doesn't gc need to know more about the stack 19:54:17 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 19:54:19 ah i didn't know it has inbuilt support 19:54:29 LLVM includes hooks in its standard library for making the code inform the GC about certain important things 19:54:40 also i suppose there is the JVM/CLR for GC centred langauges perhaps 19:54:52 that is, for the generated native code to automatically include apropriate calls 19:55:06 Ralith: not quite... It has built-in hooks, but there's nothing pre-built for non-refcount GCs, particularly moving ones. 19:55:14 -!- strobegen [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:55:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:55:38 well, prebuilt stuff would probably presume too much about the language you want to build 19:55:43 indeed. 19:55:47 it doesn't go very far because it mustn't 19:55:49 i really dont know much about GC's 19:55:51 -!- gkeith_lt [gkeith@nat/google/x-mvxrtuviwsnowamu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:56:23 supposedly the functional languages get synergy between GC and immutability 19:56:30 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:56:37 Ralith: a working if conservative starting point would be useful. 19:56:38 as long as I can put certain calls to inform GC about mutator actions, it's all good 19:57:56 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:57:57 p_l: that's the easy bit. Finding roots with aggressive optimisations, that's something else. 19:58:13 strz [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has joined #lisp 19:58:13 -!- strz is now known as strobegen 19:58:30 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:42 is there such a thing as program analyzers that turn GC programs into manually managed programs (mix of stack, heap and refcount) 19:58:52 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 19:58:57 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:59:23 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 19:59:30 i heard someone talk of a GC implementation for C++ (non compacting i assume) via smartpointers.. (not refcounting) 19:59:38 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Client Quit] 19:59:54 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 20:00:08 look into region typing/inference, MLKit and Cyclone. 20:00:15 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-19-23.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:00:37 doomlord: refcounting is a way to implement GC (and a bad one at that); it's not "not GC" 20:00:50 doomlord: that's still GC... just precomputed steps 20:00:53 ASau [~user@95-26-212-54.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:01:21 i draw a line between the typical c++ techniques and voodoo with compacting /tracing threads 20:01:47 also, a nice study covered lisp as well, where they used iirc 1-bit refcounting as well as compiler support to minimize amount of stuff to be traced later 20:01:57 doomlord: I don't. GC is anything which does not call for alloc()/free() explicitly. 20:02:24 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-19-23.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:34 some c++ people like to claim unique_ptr and shared_ptr make C++ a "garbage collected language" but i wouldn't go that far 20:02:37 basically, they used first refcounting, then added code elimination in compiler, to essentially do escape analysis of references. If the reference was known to not become visible outside, it was removed when you exited the scope 20:02:46 doomlord: it does not 20:03:53 to me GC is tracing/compacting... perhaps there is a word that better describes the dividing line I see between( C,C++) and ( java, c# etc...) 20:04:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:04:18 -!- okapi [~okapi@ool-44c763d6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:05:08 steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 20:05:16 Morid [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 20:05:24 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:32 its pretty trivial to add GC to C or C++ with the boehm lib. When I write C programs, I use it and it "just works" 99% of the time. 20:05:35 -!- eldar [~CLD@pppoe-204-244-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:05:46 tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.71.41] has joined #lisp 20:06:42 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.71.41] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:07:01 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-112-017.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:07:08 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 20:07:11 tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.71.41] has joined #lisp 20:08:07 and with C++, ability to use smart pointers help there a bit, though you still get wild data due to lack of tagging 20:08:26 Go ended up having screwed-up GC by missing tagging, apparently 20:09:06 i haven't looked into go much yet in my langauge search, 20:09:15 i liked a lot of what i saw 20:09:29 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:09:33 mrSpec [~Spec@81.253.11.193] has joined #lisp 20:09:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@81.253.11.193] has quit [Changing host] 20:09:33 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:09:48 i dont like classes so much and what they say about seperating data / methods looks great 20:10:18 -!- _d3f [~d3f@79.172.193.130] has quit [Quit: _d3f] 20:10:44 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.200.20] has joined #lisp 20:11:55 -!- TrystamWrk is now known as TristamWrk 20:12:24 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-29.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 20:12:25 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 20:12:56 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:14:20 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:28 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 20:14:29 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.66.47.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 20:14:29 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 20:15:40 Go has closures, but the static typing with no parameterized types or macros means that you can't build generic higher order functions (MAP* and the like), so you are stuck writing nested for loops. 20:15:40 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:15:51 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:16:05 ikki [~ikki@200.66.47.67] has joined #lisp 20:16:06 doomlord: CLOS is very different than Simula-derived OOP of C++, or the mix of Simula and Smalltalk/Obj-C that Java has 20:16:55 Orii [~user1@pool-71-173-214-172.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:03 <[1]mpstyler> nested loops are easy to read 20:17:30 -!- [1]mpstyler is now known as mpstyler 20:17:35 clos dos look rather good 20:17:40 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-36-224.monradsl.monornet.hu] has left #lisp 20:17:41 does look 20:17:51 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:18:28 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:31 rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jsiyvlvutujoqlll] has joined #lisp 20:20:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-64.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:22:00 high order functions beat for loops for me 20:22:06 totally sold on the concept 20:22:25 mpstyler: With imperative loops, you have to pay attention to a lot of details since there is generally a lot mutation happening. If you are using something like MAPCAR, the code is shorter, it's much easier to write and read in a functional manner so you know that values aren't getting clobbered, etc. 20:22:46 and easier to parallelize :) 20:23:30 postfuturist: I believe it :) but lack of expirience to be sure 20:24:20 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:25:42 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 20:26:00 agumonkey [~agu@235.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:27:44 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0ea1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:08 what I am realy interested in right now is literature where data structures and related topics are discussed for common lisp. Because most books that I read are focused on functional programming, macros 20:28:51 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 20:28:52 etc. 20:28:54 mpstyler: PAIP? 20:30:44 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-232-156.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:30:50 - 20:31:30 The PAIP will be delivered tomorrow :), but judging from the pdf its more about discussing varios interesting programs/problems 20:32:53 Datastructure come along with algorithms. So any book on algorithms, such as TAOCP is good. 20:33:42 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:34:18 mpstyler: a good book on algorithms and their real-world use is "Algorithm Design Manual" 20:34:56 pjb, p_l thank you 20:35:24 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:35:24 I will take a look hope they use lisp 20:35:36 in these books 20:35:40 They don't use lisp, they use algorithms and data structures! 20:37:14 mpstyler: Algorithm Design Manual doesn't use any specific language. But it's a goddamn good book on algorithms that is also very understandable, even if it doesn't have depth of Cormen et al. 20:38:01 I see, But there should be a real or a pseudo language used in such book, My point is that I would like to have such book with examples in lisp in order to understand lisp! I do have the Cormen book. 20:38:35 An algorithm & data structure book using lisp as pseudo-language wouldn't and shouldn't teach you lisp! 20:38:43 mpstyler: after going through PCL, you'd be able to easily translate the examples from most algorithm books, at least the ones that use classic pseudocode 20:38:46 But PAIP does that. 20:39:55 Sorry for distracting you all with these noob questions, but I am realy interested in this topic. Anyway will have the PAIP and the PCL soon. 20:41:39 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:42:11 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:42:57 mpstyler: actually, it's a good exercise (and not so easy) to take a book like TAOCP which presents its algorithms in assembler, and to write them in lisp. 20:43:41 Of course, one could write assembler in lisp, but you want to rewrite them using lisp abstractions, so often the resulting programs are quite different (in the details) from the algorithms given by Knuth. 20:43:51 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:44:38 mpstyler: Perhaps reading about LIL would be illuminating about this problem too, in that in LIL there's a separation of high level algorithmic parts from low level data structure accesses. 20:45:22 pjb, sorry what is LIL? 20:45:40 http://planet.lisp.org/ 20:45:49 ok, thanks 20:46:20 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.160.220.250] has joined #lisp 20:46:43 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-67-128.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 20:49:03 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:34 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.71.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:50:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:51:43 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 20:53:03 FizzixNerd [~matt@bas5-barrie18-845497309.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:53:07 hi guys 20:53:15 so I have a question about packages 20:53:19 in Common Lisp 20:53:40 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-014-221.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:53:43 I'm building a little rope library, and one of the functions in the library I want to call "delete" 20:53:52 so that it would be referenced as "rope:delete" 20:54:12 but every time I try to do so, SBCL throws a fit, claiming I'm trying to redefine cl:delete 20:54:15 b0ef```` [~user@52.168.102.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:54:21 you have to shadow it 20:54:24 cryptic_ [~cryptic@pool-96-246-91-191.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:26 I tried that 20:54:33 you have a defpackage somewhere, right? put (:shadow #:delete) in there 20:54:39 I did (defpackage cl-rope) 20:54:40 obviously, you failed 20:54:47 (:shadow :delete) 20:54:53 and it still failed the same way 20:55:10 that looks like a failure to me 20:55:16 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:55:21 you don't even use cl? that seems like a pain 20:55:57 vsync- [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:59 trigen_ [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fb:1c8c:323b:2bd6:7949] has joined #lisp 20:56:01 (cl:defpackage :cl-rope 20:56:02 (:use 20:56:02 :common-lisp) 20:56:02 (:nicknames 20:56:02 :rope) 20:56:04 (:export 20:56:06 :index :new 20:56:09 :delete :split 20:56:11 :report :string->rope 20:56:14 :parent) 20:56:16 (:shadow 20:56:19 :delete) 20:56:21 (:shadowing-import-from 20:56:23 http://paste.lisp.org/ 20:56:24 :common-lisp)) 20:56:26 I was being brief 20:56:31 noted for next time 20:56:58 well, in the code you define rope:delete in, are you actually in the rope package 20:57:05 mtd_ [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:08 rotty_ [rotty@de.xx.vu] has joined #lisp 20:57:09 basho_ [~basho@static.76.144.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 20:57:09 limetree_ [~ircuser@li147-249.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:10 yes 20:57:14 lionping_ [~itsme@cm.mpi.univie.ac.at] has joined #lisp 20:57:19 I have (in-package :cl-rope) before 20:57:22 slava_ [~slava@li32-38.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:28 and it compiles all the other functions just fine 20:57:30 rfgpfeiffer [~bob@blubberquark.de] has joined #lisp 20:57:31 efftee [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #lisp 20:57:32 -!- ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:57:40 -!- efftee is now known as ft 20:57:43 jasom_ [~aidenn@ip72-194-213-200.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:44 pok [~pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 20:57:49 literal_ [hinrik@w.nix.is] has joined #lisp 20:57:57 justicefries [~justicefr@c-24-9-171-36.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:58 I have used them, and I have to reference them using rope:blah at the prompt 20:59:44 yeltzooo [~yeltzooo@ec2-50-18-131-205.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 20:59:47 any ideas? 20:59:58 ivan\_ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 20:59:59 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:59:59 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:59:59 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:59:59 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:59:59 -!- hiredman [~hiredman@ip67-152-53-125.z53-152-67.customer.algx.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:59:59 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:59:59 -!- PECCU [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:59:59 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:59:59 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:59:59 -!- df_ [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:59:59 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:59:59 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:59:59 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:59:59 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:59:59 -!- egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:59:59 -!- dsp_ [dsp@antenora.aculei.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:59:59 forgottenwizard [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 21:00:00 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 21:00:00 -!- djinni`_ [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00:00 -!- mtd [~martin@67.207.131.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00:00 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Ping timeout: 279 seconds] 21:00:00 -!- b0ef``` [~user@52.168.102.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 279 seconds] 21:00:00 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 21:00:00 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 279 seconds] 21:00:00 -!- slava [~slava@li32-38.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 279 seconds] 21:00:00 -!- rfgpfeif1er [~bob@blubberquark.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 279 seconds] 21:00:00 -!- yeltzooo7 [~yeltzooo@ec2-50-18-131-205.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 21:00:00 -!- lionping [~itsme@cm.mpi.univie.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 279 seconds] 21:00:00 -!- limetree [~ircuser@li147-249.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 279 seconds] 21:00:01 -!- basho [~basho@static.76.144.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 279 seconds] 21:00:01 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip72-194-213-200.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 21:00:01 -!- rotty [rotty@de.xx.vu] has quit [Ping timeout: 279 seconds] 21:00:01 -!- pok_ [~pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 21:00:01 -!- cryptic [~cryptic@pool-96-246-91-191.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 309 seconds] 21:00:01 -!- literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 353 seconds] 21:00:01 -!- trigen [~MSX@devvers.tweaknet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 247 seconds] 21:00:25 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 21:00:53 djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:01:41 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:02:07 -!- ivan\_ is now known as ivan\ 21:02:15 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:02:50 -!- yeltzooo [~yeltzooo@ec2-50-18-131-205.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:02:54 -!- maxm- [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:03:53 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:04:03 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 21:04:03 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 21:04:03 hiredman [~hiredman@ip67-152-53-125.z53-152-67.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:03 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 21:04:03 PECCU [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 21:04:03 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 21:04:03 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 21:04:03 df_ [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:03 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 21:04:03 Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 21:04:03 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:03 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 21:04:03 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 21:04:03 dsp_ [dsp@antenora.aculei.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:04 stahoo [~stahoo@rej.4web.pl] has joined #lisp 21:04:13 I guess that's a no then? 21:04:14 -!- vsync- [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:24 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:48 yeltzooo [~yeltzooo@ec2-50-18-131-205.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 21:05:17 well your shadowing-import-from doesn't make sense, but other than that it should work 21:05:34 -!- Morid [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:07:07 yeah, I figured that. I was just adding stuff in case it worked at that point. 21:07:24 rjmt__ [~uid1@46-65-28-90.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:07:28 -!- macdice [~user@46-65-10-191.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: sleep] 21:08:06 (defpackage foo (:use :cl) (:shadow :delete)), (in-package :foo), (defun delete (x) x), (delete 4) => 4 21:09:09 -!- rjmt_ [~uid1@46-65-28-90.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:09 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:09:09 -!- magnific1ab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:09:19 magnificrab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has joined #lisp 21:10:06 eni [~eni@82.230.88.217] has joined #lisp 21:10:13 -!- dfox [~dfox@89.177.105.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:10:26 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:10:29 dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #lisp 21:10:36 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-168.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:11:01 well that's annoying; that works 21:12:01 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:12:44 aib|2 [kvirc@46.196.26.250] has joined #lisp 21:13:57 robonyankitty [~mechanyan@li125-243.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:50 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:15:26 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:36 -!- stahoo [~stahoo@rej.4web.pl] has quit [] 21:15:48 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:16:01 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.200.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:16:45 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: .] 21:17:11 aegray_ [~agjohnst@38.122.189.222] has joined #lisp 21:17:19 -!- mechanyancat [~mechanyan@li125-243.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:17:20 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Ping 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