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06:37:45 <duko_> http://pastebin.ca/2205793
06:38:36 <duko_> i'm would like hunchentoot to respond to a /hello request with 'hello'
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06:39:03 <duko_> but when I visit /hello with my browser
06:39:13 <duko_> Resource /hello not found.
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06:39:53 <duko_> would someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?
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06:45:08 <|3b|> are you connecting to right port?
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06:47:51 <|3b|> also, you might want hunchentoot:easy-acceptor instead of hunchentoot:acceptor
06:48:39 <duko_> I am connected to the right port and am seeing the common lisp lizard in my browser
06:48:56 <duko_> I have updated acceptor to become easy-acceptor
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06:50:17 <duko_> and viola!
06:50:27 <duko_> thank you |3b|
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07:53:25 <joekarma> duko: you might prefer RESTAS -- it's a touch higher level. I know I do.
07:53:58 <joekarma> RESTAS being built on top of hunchentoot of course
07:57:58 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp
07:58:07 <joekarma> https://gist.github.com/3754531
07:59:14 <joekarma> The advantage RESTAS has over vanilla hunchentoot (aside from the routing library) is that it makes it easy to host several distinct websites in one lisp image
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07:59:48 <joekarma> s/aside from/beyond/
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08:24:08 <nydel> ok i think i just /really/ understood lambda for the first time
08:24:47 <billstclair> Simple lisp code to pull down all the images in yesterday's "Click and Drag" XKCD. https://github.com/billstclair/xkcd-click-and-drag
08:24:54 <billstclair> It puts it all in a big HTML table: http://billstclair.com/click-and-drag/
08:25:19 <billstclair> and now I really must sleep
08:25:33 <nydel> billstclair what's XKCD click and drag
08:25:42 <billstclair> http://xkcd.com/1110/
08:25:53 <nydel> ok
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08:25:56 <billstclair> click and drag to move around the lower image
08:26:09 <billstclair> I spread it out, so you can scroll around
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08:26:27 <H4ns> nice.
08:27:41 <nydel> there's nothing but lambda...it's all..lambda. everything.
08:27:59 <nydel> there's not even such a thing as lisp, is there.
08:28:07 <H4ns> nydel: you'll come over it.
08:28:18 <billstclair> http://xkcd.com/224/
08:28:21 <nydel> H4ns: i think i just did
08:28:31 <joekarma> if you really want to think like that then all there is is ones and zeroes...
08:28:51 <billstclair> Just little magnetic domains spinning round and round
08:29:07 <nydel> you guys are thinking physically not abstractly
08:29:16 <nydel> even binary is concrete
08:29:19 <joekarma> personally I prefer to just think of lambdas as functions without names, but hey
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08:30:12 <nydel> joekarma there are no functions, just lambda macroexpanding to a namespace
08:30:51 <joekarma> deep dude. you've like, opened my eyes to the cosmos
08:30:52 <nydel> there aren't even variables, just lambda (x) x
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08:31:22 <nydel> joekarma: i am an idiot
08:31:37 <nydel> joekarma: i help that changes the connotation of my words
08:32:15 <surrounder> billstclair: that comic rocks
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08:32:37 <nydel> which comic was referenced?
08:32:45 <nydel> or are you refering to me as a comic
08:32:48 <nydel> hi stassats
08:32:52 <joekarma> xkcd is revolutionary
08:33:01 <joekarma> never seen a comic like that
08:33:16 <nydel> xkcd is lambda.
08:33:26 <nydel> (i'm just making fun of myself at this point, i'm finished)
08:33:29 <joekarma> nydel, put the joint down
08:33:43 <nydel> the one on the left or the right
08:33:47 <joekarma> hehe
08:33:50 <H4ns> or read lisp on lines
08:33:57 <H4ns> no, let over lambda
08:34:04 <H4ns> now i got confused by the lolz
08:34:22 <nydel> let over lambda?
08:34:38 <H4ns> right.  a book on lisp written under the influence
08:34:50 <joekarma> ah
08:34:55 <joekarma> now I get it
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08:35:18 <nydel> i've come to notice that a stunning percentage of us are on lines
08:35:24 <joekarma> haha
08:35:39 <H4ns> nydel: who is the "us" and "you" that you keep mentioning?
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08:35:55 <nydel> i don't remember saying 'you'
08:36:07 <nydel> but pronoun "us" meant "lispers"
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08:36:22 <nydel> i will refrain from usage from pronouns (i as nydel)
08:36:40 <H4ns> nydel: you even suffixed the you with "guys"
08:37:40 <nydel> i see that, it's unusual for me to use pronouns as i don't like them as much as this or that he or she
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08:38:03 <joekarma> I think H4ns was just concerned for your mental health is all nydel
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08:38:12 <joekarma> wanted to make sure you were addressing the room and not the voices in your head
08:38:14 <nydel> you guys meant the two saying "if everything is lambda you are just following reductionism and haven't finished"
08:38:15 <stassats> it's better not to talk about lispers
08:38:25 <H4ns> joekarma: :D
08:38:47 <nydel> aren't y'all voices in my head?
08:39:05 <nydel> wait...#lisp is part of objective reality?
08:39:08 <H4ns> nydel: when saying "you guys", are you referring to one person, or to a group of persons?  and if you refer to a group, precisely which group is that?
08:39:43 <joekarma> everyone except the women in this specific channel. So, everyone, in other words.
08:39:59 <nydel> H4ns: two people responded when i said that everything is lambda. they both said paraphrased "if everything is...(see above)"
08:40:16 <H4ns> nydel: better be explicit about whom you address.
08:40:17 <nydel> but i wasn't being reductionist, i was being deconstructionist
08:40:42 <nydel> H4ns: i will, thank you for the constructive input
08:41:01 <H4ns> nydel: you're very welcome!
08:41:03 <nydel> H4ns: communication should be responsibly yielded
08:41:09 <jdz> i recently learned that "people" is the plural of "person"
08:41:20 <nydel> it's good to be reminded to speak clearly
08:41:37 <joekarma> persons works too
08:41:43 <H4ns> nydel: speaking clearly is a skill highly valued in #lisp
08:41:49 <jdz> joekarma: for americans?
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08:42:04 <nydel> H4ns: that value is part of why i value #lisp
08:42:11 <nydel> a very large part.
08:42:22 <stassats> jdz: what you call two persons as two people?
08:43:09 <joekarma> link I didn't read but just googled: http://www.dailywritingtips.com/people-versus-persons/
08:43:22 <stassats> it sounds more like plurality, not plural in the grammatical sense
08:43:22 <jdz> stassats: i have not yet incorporated this discovery in my language i think
08:43:28 <nydel> i would like to read lisp on lines - is there a link handy, anyone?
08:43:43 <nydel> i thought i was going to /write/ lisp on lines. but if it's already written..
08:43:54 <joekarma> let over lambda you mean?
08:44:10 <joekarma> http://letoverlambda.com/
08:44:19 <H4ns> nydel: it is not totally written, but the name is taken :)
08:44:54 <jdz> joekarma: that's a nice link, thanks
08:44:56 <nydel> joekarma: is it literally (& H4ns:) on the subject of lisp and coca?
08:45:05 <nydel> thanks joekarma
08:45:27 <H4ns> "most hardcore", that's tough!
08:45:29 <joekarma> nydel: let over lambda is a book about advanced macros
08:45:48 <joekarma> s/advanced/advanced use of/
08:45:54 <nydel> joekarma: this is wonderful
08:45:55 <stassats> jdz: if you believe wiktionary, it says "persons pl Plural form of person; used to refer to them individually, rather than as a group. Contrast people."
08:46:11 <H4ns> nydel: depends on how you look at it.  you could also say it is a lisp framework that tries to be rails, but cool
08:46:59 <joekarma> LOL = Let Over Lambda; LoL = Lisp on Lines
08:47:03 <nydel> joekarma: the way you just corrected & substituted your previous comment was very clear and efficient, i have not seen that before, is that done commonly or did you make it up?
08:47:17 <joekarma> nydel: common enough
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08:47:25 <joekarma> idiomatic irc speak
08:47:27 <nydel> i assume "substitute/this/that/" right
08:47:30 <jdz> it's from sed
08:47:37 <joekarma> also that
08:47:45 <stassats> or from perl
08:47:45 <jdz> and one can do that in skype, too
08:47:49 <jdz> if anyone uses it
08:47:56 <nydel> from sed! okay there's my sign. sed's on my list of things i haven't mastered that are (in my mind) related to regular expressions
08:48:00 <jdz> (it actually does the replacement)
08:48:05 <joekarma> I kind of want to build a plugin for my irc client that actually /does/ do the substitution
08:48:40 <stassats> and it seems like s/// is from ed, actually
08:49:04 <nydel> jdz: that's awesome! i have used "hello the" ... "*there" but i always disliked that, it is ambiguous in less simple cases
08:49:21 <nydel> joekarma: i was just thinking that
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08:49:58 <nydel> joekarma: & it could let other users modify your buffer too
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08:50:14 <nydel> client-side
08:50:27 <joekarma> I'd only let it modify their own chat lines
08:50:54 <jdz> i'd not be against it if it was possible to see what was the non-edited (or deleted) version
08:51:12 <joekarma> click to see the diff?
08:51:18 <nydel> joekarma: what about it sends "joekarma thinks nydel meant *line-after-substitute*"
08:51:36 <joekarma> maybe
08:51:58 <joekarma> god help you if you fall into a room full of grammar nazis though
08:52:08 <nydel> jdz: yes, that's good. and a short grace period on correcting
08:52:34 <jdz> nydel: no, no grace period.
08:52:51 <jdz> nydel: i still want to see your password when you typed in IRC not in terminal
08:53:00 <nydel> jdz: no grace period means they can never substitute
08:53:28 <nydel> jdz: i meant grace period as "how long they are allowed to modify their message"
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08:53:46 <jdz> nydel: what i would like is for people to be able to edit what they wrote, but for other people to still be able to see what was written originally
08:54:17 <jdz> nydel: only the last message could be edited (on IRC)
08:54:19 <nydel> jdz: right, we don't want the original to be gone, yeah?
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08:54:30 <jdz> nydel: exactly
08:54:51 <nydel> jdz: what if the last two? s/this/that/* for last s/this/that/** for 2nd-to-last
08:54:52 <jdz> anyway, that can totally be done on the client side, and is off-topic, anyway
08:55:06 <nydel> way off-topic but sooooo much fun
08:55:33 <nydel> i think it's okay for us to go offtopic a little bit especially at this hour.
08:55:36 <flip214> in case there's someone who _doesn't_ know this already ... re passwords in irc: http://www.bash.org/?244321
08:55:40 <stassats> nydel: it's not
08:55:53 <jdz> nydel: you even do not know what hour it is now
08:56:28 <joekarma> I know what minute it is though, modulo 30
08:56:33 <nydel> stassats: i wanted just now to ask, if there a document for etiquette here? i suppose i've become a regular & would like to respect #lisp
08:56:49 <stassats> talk about lisp, and you'll be alright
08:57:05 <stassats> and don't be senile, you'll be alright
08:57:10 <nydel> stassats: there's no such thing as lisp, only lambda
08:57:14 <joekarma> There's a #lispcafe though
08:57:17 <joekarma> for off-topic stuff
08:57:18 <nydel> just kidding, making fun of myself.
08:57:29 <nydel> thanks joekarma i didn't know that
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08:58:05 <nydel> i love it here. everyone volunteers such relevant information that i wouldn't know to request.
08:59:00 <joekarma> It's important to stay on topic in this room because a lot of people peruse the logs... which are usually great because of the high S/N ratio (once you filter out the leave/joins)
08:59:08 <nydel> why is #lisp so much more, i need the right word, civilized? maybe.. than other #'s?
08:59:37 <nydel> joekarma: i didn't think of that. that's strong motivation for me to stay ontopic.
08:59:43 <flip214> nydel: because if barbars come in most people are really short-tempered.
09:00:19 <nydel> flip214: barbar, please?
09:00:24 <joekarma> #lisp is one of the few places left to talk about lisp that isn't completely overrun with spam... I'm looking at you comp.lang.lisp
09:00:29 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp
09:00:42 <jdz> barbars are close relatives of foofoos
09:01:04 <joekarma> and second cousins to bazbazs
09:01:12 <flip214> for german speakers: youtube, rhabarbarbarbara
09:01:16 <stassats> joekarma: c.l.l is just unmoderated
09:01:57 <joekarma> stassats: I'm just one of the barbarians who uses google groups to read the messages there... so I don't have the benefit of a killfile
09:02:20 <stassats> it's better not to read it at all
09:02:51 <joekarma> pretty much
09:03:13 <nydel> i'm unable to find any definition for barbar or foofoo, especially bazbaz i can't infer from.. i understand it's a person who [blank] fubar [blank].
09:03:26 <joekarma> nydel: are you a chat bot?
09:03:48 <jdz> nydel: look for foo, bar and baz, instead
09:04:20 <joekarma> s/.*// ; too mean
09:04:28 <nydel> jdz: i got all that, all i can infer is "negative connotation" - is it specific like mean or troll or idiot
09:05:25 <jdz> nydel: nope. it was just an observation that the word "barbars" consists of two "bar"s
09:05:59 <joekarma> nydel: foo bar and baz are common variable names in contrived bits of example code
09:06:03 <jdz> nydel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foobar
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09:07:00 <nydel> thanks, i understand that. but what's meant "if barbars com in[to the channel]..." by barbar there?
09:07:04 <flip214> german speakers again: found it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcMT395UvWI
09:07:16 <joekarma> nydel: barbarians. rest was joke.
09:07:37 <jdz> nydel: your opinion of this channel being civilized is only because you yourself are civilized.
09:07:55 <stassats> right now it's not civilized
09:07:55 <jdz> nydel: look on the interwebs for other people's opinion of this channel
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09:08:30 <nydel> joekarma: that was a really funny bit, now that i know barbars as uncivilized people. clever wordplayers here!
09:08:30 <jdz> stassats: i'd say it is civilized, although very noisy
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09:09:06 <joekarma> nydel: I wouldn't go adding "barbar" to your vernacular though
09:09:42 <nydel> jdz: i see.. if i were uncivilized (or in my case a slight bit more tedious, as that's more my flaw) i wouldn't be so warmly welcomed
09:10:30 <nydel> joekarma: right, it was an impromptu slang. i just didn't pick it up right away because i'm eating a really confusing cookie.
09:12:11 *nydel* is going to keep more ontopic here and try #lispcafe for tangents & whimsy..
09:12:24 <nydel> i do hope you all frequent lispcafe
09:12:29 <joekarma> in an effort to steer us back on topic, I'm wondering aloud, is there a library available for grabbing images from the webcam on Mac OS X (through Lisp, of course)
09:12:41 <p_l|backup> don't think so
09:12:42 jathd [~user@mon69-5-88-169-253-165.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp
09:12:49 <p_l|backup> but you could get to it through CFFI
09:12:51 <nydel> either or could direct me to where y'all do congregate
09:13:05 <joekarma> p_l|backup: that's what I figured, thanks
09:13:48 <flip214> joekarma: how about calling an external program and get the picture in the right format? PPM, JPG, PNG, whatever you need
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09:14:19 <joekarma> flip214: that's a pretty good idea actually, easier in a lot of ways than CFFI
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09:17:16 <flip214> but it adds an external dependency, eg. to ffmpeg, vlc or whatever else you're using
09:17:43 <H4ns> i think there is a standard grabber tool on osx, let me check
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09:18:36 <arnsholt> I'd expect OS X to have a tool to tinker with the camera tucked away somewhere
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09:19:58 <H4ns> the one i thought about is not standard
09:20:23 <H4ns> http://iharder.sourceforge.net/current/macosx/imagesnap/
09:20:36 <joekarma> cheers, thanks H4ns
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09:21:07 <H4ns> that seems to be the lolcommit uses.
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09:21:50 <joekarma> that's awesome
09:22:02 <joekarma> good enough for them good enough for me
09:23:31 <nydel> if reading to symbols, how to deal with commas?
09:23:56 <ludston> Preprocess?
09:24:12 lindes [~user@dslb-188-102-156-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp
09:24:21 <ludston> Create an arbitrary symbol for comma, and convert comma's to that symbol?
09:24:32 <joekarma> nydel |with something like this, I suppose|
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09:25:13 <jdz> nydel: your question is a bit ill-formed
09:25:20 <nydel> okay,
09:26:19 <nydel> a file stream, made of lines like this: (this is a note i took, it could be read as a string, but i want it to be read as symbol lists)
09:26:39 <jdz> nydel: you mean you want it to be read as a list of symbols, right?
09:26:55 <jdz> nydel: and what exactly do you want to happen to the comma?
09:27:09 <nydel> yes, ultimately collected. a list of lists of symbols
09:27:25 <stassats> why do you want it to be read as symbols?
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09:28:11 <nydel> i want to say (read file-stream nil 'eof) and quickly collect all the entries in the notes database file.
09:28:45 <joekarma> I'm not following why you need commas in there
09:28:50 <ludston> nydel: Is it some kind of awesome learning algorithm thing, are you assigning functions/values to the symbols, or do you just want to collect them?
09:28:57 <stassats> i'm not following why you need to read them as symbols
09:29:04 <jdz> nydel: why don't you want to say (read-notes file-stream) instead?
09:29:19 <joekarma> basically it's not possible with read because it's not a valid sexp
09:29:31 <joekarma> read reads sexps
09:29:40 <joekarma> or atoms I guess
09:29:54 <ludston> If you're not assigning meta-data to the symbols then is there any point in not just using strings?
09:29:56 <nydel> stassats: i want to be able to search for entries with keywords more quickly, and later to connect entries -- each actually starts with an index which is (get-universal-time)
09:30:25 <stassats> no, no symbols is needed here
09:30:32 <ludston> Hashtable?
09:30:47 <lindes> hmm, does common lisp (or, specifically, either CCL or SBCL) have some variable or function I can call to get the pathname (and perhaps even line number) of the source code that's being read, so that, say, I could put that into a message (e.g. (format t "for example: this is ~a, line ~a~%" (something-for-file-name) (something-for-line-number)))?
09:31:15 <H4ns> clhs *compile-file-pathname*
09:31:15 <specbot> http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_cmp_fi.htm
09:31:21 <H4ns> clhs *load-pathname*
09:31:21 <specbot> http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_ld_pns.htm
09:31:36 <lindes> Thanks, H4ns, I'll look at those!
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09:32:36 <nydel> stassats: it's a command line script. i have a lot of ideas and i write "lispin here is my idea" (lisp pin) -- also events "lispin (time milligrams medication)" -- while i'm working on other things.
09:32:48 <nydel> stassats: should i be using lists of strings instead?
09:32:57 <joekarma> haha
09:33:25 <stassats> possibly, but certainly not symbols
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09:33:35 <lindes> hmm, except they're both evaluating to NIL in my case... perhaps I need an eval-when form or something?
09:33:53 <ludston> nydel: Why use SBCL though? Why not use grep?
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09:34:30 <jdz> lindes: did you try to read the descriptions?
09:34:42 Amadiro [~Amadiro@233-56-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp
09:34:45 *lindes* blushes, and goes and reads.  :)
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09:35:04 <joekarma> I thought asdf had a helper function for that
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09:35:53 <joekarma> the current file's path that is
09:35:56 <ludston> nydel: Not that I'm reflexively dscounting what you're doing. Just interested.
09:36:05 <nydel> ludston: i need to connect various pins (with new pins, or maybe a different table) and do many other things
09:36:35 <nydel> grep is much better than whatever i am doing for this, but i need to build off of this first of many many many functions
09:37:14 <ludston> nydel: Sounds cool enough
09:37:15 <joekarma> nydel, command line scripts aren't really the "lisp way"
09:37:30 <joekarma> I mean, if they're written in lisp anyhow
09:37:42 <joekarma> most people just have a repl open at all times
09:37:55 <nydel> joekarma: it is actually only a script for adding a pin
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09:38:13 <nydel> i have to run "lispin -a here is the pin"
09:38:29 <nydel> "lispin" opens lisp and loads the lispin file
09:38:30 <lindes> jdz: ok, I've now read (sorry), and I guess the problem is I'm not doing compile-file or load.  So, maybe this ends up being an emacs/slime question?  i.e.: How are forms compiled when one does C-c C-c in emacs, and does it in any way preserve the filename from which it was called, in a way that is retreivable from the code being compiled?
09:38:56 <joekarma> they're put into a temporary fasl in my case
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09:39:00 <H4ns> lindes: use C-c C-k
09:39:05 <ludston> joekarma: If we don't want to interact with the operating system, what's the point?
09:39:14 <nydel> so i can add lispins during the very rare times i'm not in an repl
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09:39:37 <jdz> lindes: if you're compiling just one function, only that function is compiled. it even does not have to be in any file.
09:39:46 <jdz> lindes: and what H4ns said
09:40:28 <nydel> joekarma: in fact that's the whole point of this part. when i'm in clisp, this is easy. but reading from the command line --- ohhh, maybe i should focus on that instead -- how i'm reading the input from the command line
09:40:46 <jdz> nydel: we all do our lispin' in our heads when we don't have a repl handy!
09:40:56 <lindes> H4ns, jdz: hmm, seems a reasonable thing to do.  alas, they still both evaluate to NIL. :-/
09:41:04 <ludston> nydel: And you can C-x C-e to evaluate an individual lisp form.
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09:41:11 <stassats> lindes: you're evaluating them at the wrong time
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09:42:19 <nydel> ludston: that's useful! i keep having to comment out the #!/usr/bin/clisp at the top.
09:43:09 <H4ns> lindes: you may want #.*compile-file-pathname*
09:43:13 <nydel> i can do (if *args* (main-function)) so it doesn't try to run with no arguments, but the first line, is there a way to do something other than that?
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09:43:34 <lindes> stassats: yes, so I would imagine... so, .... #., what does that syntax do?
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09:43:46 <nydel> H4ns: if i write it like that will the file load in lisp? i've found it won't load in clisp with a #! at the top
09:44:02 <H4ns> lindes: it evaluates the form following at read time
09:44:04 <stassats> lindes: forces evaluation at read-time
09:44:04 <lindes> H4ns: besides work?  thank you.  :)
09:44:05 <stassats> clhs #.
09:44:05 <specbot> http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm
09:45:03 <nydel> H4ns: and it will not run as a script without the #!/ (unless i do lisp filename but i just wanna type the symbolic link in my $PATH)
09:45:04 <lindes> stassats: thanks.  I don't imagine that would have been easy to google for.  but specbot clearly does fine with it.  :)
09:45:23 <H4ns> nydel: i'm sorry, but i'm not following the discussion of your problem.
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09:46:05 <nydel> stassats: thank you
09:46:23 <nydel> & H4ns too - i think #. solves my problem there
09:46:28 <joekarma> lindes: indeed. I remembered seeing a lisp tip about it, but good luck finding it!
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09:49:14 <nydel> stassats: how is it written, #.path-to-lisp? or (#. path-to-lisp) or either else?
09:49:28 <stassats> what is written?
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09:49:50 <nydel> stassats: i need an example of #.
09:50:02 <stassats> clhs #.
09:50:02 <specbot> http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm
09:50:07 <Adeon> #.(+ 1 2 3)
09:50:09 <H4ns> nydel: it is not a solution to your problem.
09:50:10 <jdz> nydel: #. was mentioned for lindes, not you
09:50:33 <nydel> oh sorry, i was confused
09:51:32 <jdz> nydel: in your case i'd make a shell script for running in shell, and write code in a lisp file, and not try to put them both in one file
09:51:36 <joekarma> is #. why I get those "some forms may be unsafe" warnings in emacs when I view other people's code?
09:52:03 <H4ns> joekarma: no, that is from emacs mode lines at the beginning and end of files.
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09:52:29 <joekarma> thanks H4ns
09:53:37 <nydel> jdz: yes! the lisp program, then a bash script with one line "lisp lispin $"
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09:53:58 <nydel> jdz: thank you, what an elegant & simple solution.
09:54:34 <joekarma> I suppose you could also create an application by dumping core from sbcl
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09:55:00 <joekarma> parsing command line arguments are a major pain from ccl but I think sbcl gets it right
09:55:30 <pareidolia> Can someone please explain to me what a "forward referenced class" is?
09:55:48 <nydel> joekarma: i'll look into that & try interpreting with sb now, good advice thanks.
09:55:59 <Xof> a class that is named as a superclass of another class, but hasn't been defined yet
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09:56:25 <Xof> e.g. (defclass foo (frc) ()) will create a standard class named FOO and a forward-referenced-class named FRC
09:56:38 <pareidolia> Aha...
09:57:11 <pareidolia> So, when "finalize-class" is called on the forward referenced class, why would that happen?
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09:57:36 <Xof> when you try to create an instance of it
09:57:40 <pareidolia> Whoops
09:57:44 <Xof> (for example)
09:57:45 <francogrex> a better way to do this? (let ((temp (search "'" "EWING'S SARCOMA"))) (when temp (concatenate 'string (subseq "EWING'S SARCOMA" 0 temp) "'" (subseq "EWING'S SARCOMA" temp))))
09:57:45 <pareidolia> I meant "finalize-inheritance", sorry
09:58:15 <francogrex> idea is when thereis aquote change it to '' for a preparation to an sql query
09:58:23 <H4ns> clhs position
09:58:23 <specbot> http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_pos_p.htm
09:58:26 <H4ns> francogrex: ^
09:58:35 <Xof> pareidolia: I know what you meant
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09:58:49 <H4ns> francogrex: but i'd certainly use cl-ppcre for stuff like that.
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09:59:12 <pareidolia> So, in your example, this happens when code tries to instantiate foo, right?
09:59:13 <jdz> i'd certainly use prepared SQL statements for that
09:59:17 <nydel> joekarma: http://cybertiggyr.com/pcm/index.html
09:59:22 <H4ns> jdz: uh.
09:59:24 <Xof> pareidolia: or frc directly
09:59:43 <nydel> re parsing command line in lisp, this is awesome http://cybertiggyr.com/pcm/index.html
09:59:48 <pareidolia> So in the case of frc, clos supposes that it should at some point exist
10:00:03 <pareidolia> When it is mentioned in the list of superclasses of something else
10:00:16 <pareidolia> jdz: CLSQL is nice, no?
10:00:30 <Xof> yes.  Consider instantiating foo: how do you know what slots it has.  It depends on what slots frc has.  If frc hasn't been defined yet, how can you instantiate foo?
10:01:00 <pareidolia> Mmm very interesting
10:01:34 <flip214> Xof: by defining frc without slots first ... changing it later will "fix" other classes anyway ;)
10:01:39 <pareidolia> This is very educational. I had a nice project with everything in one file, now I'm moving things to separate packages... things have been blowing up a bit :)
10:03:13 <pareidolia> flip214: Before they are instantiated, right?
10:04:40 <Xof> flip214: sh, don't explode his brain
10:05:12 <pareidolia> I haven't read AMOP yet :P
10:05:36 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp
10:05:52 <pareidolia> Thanks a lot :P I discovered that the error was because I forgot to export the symbol of the FRC
10:06:00 <pareidolia> So in another package it was unknown
10:07:11 *lindes* likes the format DSL.  or at least its power.
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11:01:18 <francogrex> H4ns: but difference between position and search does it make the code more efficiant? I was more thinking of the way to insert the ' into the string without subseq and concatenate, some smarter way?
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11:03:57 <stassats> yes, position is obviously is going to be faster
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11:04:25 <flip214> francogrex: cl-ppcre?
11:04:31 <stassats> (ppcre:regex-replace "'" "EWING'S SARCOMA" "''")
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11:07:41 <francogrex> okthanks
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12:51:44 <flip214> cl-ppcre:create-scanner gives me a closure, and a list of register names.
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12:52:04 <flip214> if I want to use the register-names in a macro for a DSL, how would I use the closure?
12:52:36 <flip214> the only thing that comes to my mind is assigning it to a gensym, and doing a (funcall) of the gensym in the generated code.
12:52:56 <stassats> what are you really trying to do?
12:53:12 <flip214> it's not a s-expression that I could embed in the macro expansion directly...
12:53:33 <flip214> stassats: I'm building a small DSL. if a RE matches, some body is executed.
12:53:45 <H4ns> flip214: why don't you just use the register names as variable names in your macro expansion?
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12:54:03 <flip214> now I want to make use of register names - and provide the chosen names as symbols in the body.
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12:54:40 <flip214> H4ns: yes, that's not the problem. I asked how to use the closure that create-scanner returns ...
12:55:06 <flip214> the closure can't get embedded directly in the macro expansion...
12:55:10 <stassats> you use it with all other cl-ppcre functions
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12:55:12 <H4ns> flip214: ah. ok.
12:56:35 <stassats> to avoid being embedded into fasls, which is not guaranteed to work, you can expand into LOAD-TIME-VALUE
12:57:58 <stassats> like (let ((scanner (load-time-value (ppcre:create-scanner "scanner*") t))) (ppcre:scan-to-strings scanner string))
12:58:08 <H4ns> flip214: or you can discard the closure at compile time and regenerate at run time.
12:59:19 <H4ns> flip214: so basically combine what stassats says with what i said and you're done.
12:59:56 <stassats> you know what, that's exactly what cl-ppcre compiler-macros are doing, expanding constant regexes into (load-time-value (ppcre:create-scanner ...))
13:00:22 <stassats> so, unless you're trying to reuse the same scanner or you don't trust compiler-macros to be expanded, you can just do nothing
13:01:14 <stassats> (i wouldn't trust them, if i cared about cross-implementation performance)
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13:02:56 <flip214> hmmm, I could at least use parse-string and leave the parse-tree in the macro expansion ...
13:03:30 <flip214> but that tells me that I'm right in thinking that this is a mixup of levels - macro-expansion vs. run-time. thanks a lot.
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13:09:08 <ThomasH> Greetings lispers
13:09:36 <ludston> ThomasH: Hi guy, buy Thai Chi pie?
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13:37:38 <nydel> has anyone had trouble getting drakma to function with clisp?
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13:38:29 <stassats> it's clisp, anything might have trouble functioning
13:38:40 <sykopomp> nydel: can you be more specific about the problem?
13:38:55 <sbenitezb> nydel: might have to do sith cl-ssl?
13:39:24 <nydel> it loads up fine with ql, but the http-request function fails
13:39:47 <sykopomp> nydel: what's the error?
13:39:56 <pjb> perhaps drakma needs threads and you've got a threadless clisp?
13:40:01 <pjb> Try to recompile clisp with threads.
13:40:09 <stassats> it doesn't need threads
13:41:02 <pjb> duko: "viola" means "raped".  "voilą" means "here it is".
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13:41:18 <nydel> usocket timeout error
13:41:40 <nydel> sry i had to load it up. i'm trying it in sb, where i believe it works
13:42:02 <nydel> yeah
13:42:42 <nydel> in clisp the error is instant upon submitting the form
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13:43:46 *Quadrescence* is still mad at CLISP for overwriting his Windows path.
13:44:12 <pjb> nydel: lispers are from before and from after.  it's the C'spers who were on LSD.
13:44:58 <pjb> lisp: 1959, 1986.  C: 1968.
13:45:04 -nydel:#lisp- pjb
13:45:09 <nydel> )
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13:49:14 <TDT> Hey all.  I'm working with the following tutorial for scala http://jawher.net/2011/01/17/scala-development-environment-emacs-sbt-ensime/ and on the "Using Ensime" part there's a screenshot.  I'm curious, is there a way to get similar dropdown code completion windows to work with common lisp? I've been using C+/ to cycle through auto-completes, but this is nicer.
13:49:37 <stassats> use slime
13:49:56 <ludston> TDT: Are you using slime?
13:49:59 <TDT> Well, I use slime already, actually.
13:50:15 <ludston> Which version of emacs are you using? 24?
13:50:18 <stassats> M-TAB in the code, TAB in the REPL
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13:53:03 <TDT> was aware of the tab in the repl, not the m-tab.  that works...kinda like the dropdown thing quite a bit.
13:53:21 <ludston> TTD: There is an extension for emacs called 'Auto-complete'
13:53:24 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.168] has joined #lisp
13:53:29 <ludston> And an extension called 'ac-slime'
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13:53:50 <Quadrescence> TDT: dropdowns are possible. I used to use one with Lisp, but it ended up just getting in the way.
13:53:55 <ludston> Both of these are in the marmalade repo for the emacs package manager
13:54:34 <ludston> Quadrescence: If you change configuration so the drop-down appears faster it's more usable.
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13:55:06 <didi> It's unfortunate that so many window managers bind M-TAB as it's a very busy and useful key used by Emacs. You can still use it with C-M-i IIRC though.
13:56:01 <ludston> TDT: Have a look at http://marmalade-repo.org/ and then have a look at https://github.com/purcell/ac-slime
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13:59:55 <prxq> didi: you can also do ESC-TAB (first escape, then tab).
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14:00:36 <stassats> who ever does that?
14:00:43 <didi> prxq: Nice. Although ESC is too far from the homerow for my personal taste.
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14:06:11 <prxq> stassats: i do that a lot.
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14:06:59 <stassats> my condolences
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14:09:43 <prxq> stassats: i hope it doesn't cost you any sleep
14:10:01 <stassats> it's your fingers, not mine
14:10:42 <didi> Look, the ice cream truck!
14:10:46 *didi* wants chocolate
14:12:20 <pjb> TDT: it's written C-/ not C+/
14:13:00 <pjb> If neither  M-TAB or ESC TAB is good for you, you can always bind it to any key you like.
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14:14:27 <prxq> stassats: I am sorry to hear that doing ESC TAB would hurt your fingers.
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14:16:16 <TDT> pjb: *nods* yeah
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14:39:46 <ThomasH> I hate to sound like a noob, but on Arch Linux, do you install SBCL using pacman or install it manually?
14:40:18 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB]
14:40:24 <jdz> on arch it usually stays very fresh. if you don't run the tests or have any special interests, you can go with the arch one
14:40:53 <sykopomp> I use the sbcl from the repos, although I think it still has some issues with the debugger.
14:41:10 <sykopomp> something about having no stacktraces sometimes.
14:41:49 <ThomasH> sykopomp: To clarify, from the Git repo on sourceforge?
14:42:33 <didi> Debian's repo ftw.
14:42:36 <sykopomp> from [extra]
14:42:43 <sykopomp> or wherever it is. I think it's [extra]
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14:49:50 <ThomasH> Interesting, there is no package for Clozure CL.
14:50:10 <didi> ThomasH: Same with Debian, although apparently there is one in the works.
14:52:23 <daimrod> ThomasH: iirc CCL is available in AUR.
14:52:32 <didi> Is there a better way to go up one directory than by using this: (make-pathname :directory (butlast (pathname-directory #p"/tmp/foo/bar.lisp")))
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14:55:56 <stassats> (merge-pathnames "../" #p"/tmp/foo/bar.lisp")
14:56:23 <didi> stassats: Thank you.
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15:07:38 <sykopomp> ThomasH: aur/ccl-bin
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16:13:02 <some_user> I'm thinking about implementing something similar to this. What do you think? Is there any point in doing that? Is there a better way to do something similar? This seems like a pretty cool thing to do. http://pastebin.com/ExcpRbd6 (paste.lisp.org was down)
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16:15:02 <pjb> It's ok, only the lisp reader rejects tokens composed only of dots. You would have to write it \... or |...|
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16:18:46 <some_user> Fair enough, this is obviously just a sketch and I still need to flesh some things out. The main point of it is to actually define tree structures and be able to do some type checking, not for efficiency but just for correct behavior so I don't get faulty input to some function and I don't get what's wrong (because I get some weird error).
16:20:00 <sykopomp> use your words. Leave the abstract symbol obsession to Haskell, it's much better at it.
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16:20:41 <ThomasH> some_user: Have a look at shen -> www.shenlanguage.org
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16:24:13 <some_user> ThomasH: What exactly do you think that I would find valuable in Shen?
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16:25:14 *some_user* reads through pattern matching section
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16:28:39 <ThomasH> some_user: I'm looking over what you're doing, you're desire for type checking, and it seems that shen might do some of these things without you having to develop the fundamental system. I'm sure there are other languages, I just picked shen because it's interesting.
16:28:45 <ThomasH> your
16:28:46 <ThomasH> Ugh
16:28:57 *ThomasH* drinks more coffee.
16:29:25 <ThomasH> some_user: Oh, and shen is a lisp, which you seem interested in.
16:29:42 <sbenitezb> ThomasH: looks interesting, thanks for pointing to it
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16:30:43 <some_user> ThomasH: Well, yeah, but I wanna implement it for CL. I know that Shen is written in CL (at least is was last time I checked) but I'm unsure if I'll actually earn any time by ripping out source from Shen, besides it's also a pretty fun project.
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16:42:33 <ThomasH> One observation of shen is that despite the attempt to be it's own language and independent of CL, it still looks like it works best on CL and a CL background is useful to reading the output.
16:43:52 <ThomasH> I'm also of the opinion that the number stack is too simplistic. It's hard to beat CL support for numbers.
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17:44:05 <pavelpenev> good evening | morning | day lispers.
17:45:09 <ThomasH> Greetings
17:46:20 <pavelpenev> I had forgotten how much time is wasted with school and other bureaucracies, I'm itching to do some lisp tonight.
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18:01:21 <stassats> better not waste it on #lisp then
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18:03:42 <pavelpenev> currently wasting it by watching a Dick Gabriel talk: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Mixin-based-Inheritance :)
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18:09:13 <^pnpuff> so do you think it's a freefall? ;)
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18:10:26 <didi> Grabriel is a Clojurer?
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18:10:49 <pavelpenev> The talk uses CL as example code(as of minute 13)
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18:11:30 <didi> I see.
18:11:56 <pavelpenev> And for people with a bit of a philosophical view of programming(like me) it's start is extremely interesting.
18:12:37 <pavelpenev> clojure doesn't have inheritance and mixins.
18:12:54 <didi> pavelpenev: SICP is good for that. Including the videos.
18:13:57 <pavelpenev> The sicp videos got me into lisp languages 3-4 years ago. Unexploded mind blowing devices still lurk in my mind :)
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18:43:32 <em> can anyone think of a clever way to have a program determine the public ip of the machine it is on? Or is this impossible?
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18:44:18 <em> the public ip i have in mind is the ip you would see if you went to http://whatismyip.org  -- but it seems like a bad idea to have your program depend on the continued existence of a third party website for as long as you think people might use it.
18:44:24 <pavelpenev> em: you can query some remote machine I guess.
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18:44:41 <stassats> em: you shouldn't need to know that
18:44:53 <em> why not?
18:45:15 <didi> em: You can google and scrape, I guess.
18:45:18 <stassats> because you shouldn't need it
18:45:24 <didi> em: There is also <http://ifconfig.me/ip>
18:45:26 <em> well i do noeed it.
18:45:33 <stassats> em: what for?
18:46:38 <em> I want to make a program where your computer and my computer will talk to one another. to do that i have to know your public ip and you must know mine. I am assuming that the users of my program will not be sophisticated. I want to make this easy for them and have the program determine the public ip for the user.
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18:46:52 <fe[nl]ix> em: some ISPs NAT their customers, so even listing the local interface addresses won't give you the external IP
18:46:57 <H4ns> em: how do you deal with nat?
18:47:24 <em> everyone has a public ip, i think, its the value you see when you go to http://wimi.org
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18:47:33 <jasom> em: the majority of consumers are behind a NAT, so you won't be able to connect to them with their public ip
18:47:40 <H4ns> em: do you know what a nat router is?
18:47:42 <stassats> not everyone has a unique IP
18:47:49 <pavelpenev> em: All 4 computers at my home have the same public IP
18:48:04 <phadthai> em: maybe check SIP, an example of a rendez-vous protocol for these kind of things
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18:48:08 <em> H4ns: not exactly but i dont think i am an unusual case. I am able to connect to my computer with ssh every day.
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18:48:34 <em> i connect to my computer from work with ssh em@24.etc.etc.etc
18:48:39 <phadthai> em: of course it still requires a server for rendez-vous though
18:48:40 <em> my public ip after the @
18:48:51 <em> phadthai: yeah that's not ideal. That's centralising it.
18:48:54 <stassats> fascinating, but that doesn't solve the problem
18:48:57 <H4ns> em: people have wifi routers nowadays, and for those, what you plan to do will not work.
18:49:16 <em> even in my program at some point the people have to probably just share this information with one another. Maybe in email or something. But i am trying to make it user friendly.
18:49:17 <pavelpenev> em: In order for me to do that, I have to set up my router to forward ssh to an internal IP.
18:49:27 <jasom> em: if you're not behind a NAT you can get your IP just by connection to any server via TCP and reading the local address of the socket
18:49:31 <em> yes you have to port forward.
18:49:38 <phadthai> a decentralized approach might use something like DHT (i.e. kademlia) but there's the issue of finding a node to link to the network
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18:49:53 <H4ns> em: then it is no longer easy
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18:50:01 <H4ns> anyway.  this is off topic.
18:50:09 <em> well people even now are able to use torrent clients
18:50:16 <stassats> and how do you forward a port on the side of your ISP?
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18:50:19 <em> they must be port forwarding
18:50:50 <lemoinem> em: most Torrent clients are using UPnP... which does the prot forwarding for them
18:50:54 <stassats> you can use bittorrent without forwarding behind NAT
18:51:01 <em> lemoinem: excellent
18:51:11 <stassats> bittorrent is centralized usually
18:51:17 <lemoinem> em: people who knows what port forwarding is usually disable UPnP
18:51:30 <em> yeah that should be an option then.
18:51:30 <lemoinem> em: and stassats have two excellents points too
18:51:37 <em> im worried about th e majority of people who don't want to do anything
18:51:58 <stassats> em: don't worry, nobody will use your toy chat anyhow
18:52:08 <em> well you never know
18:52:32 <H4ns> em: it is easily possible to traverse nat routers, provided that you know how.
18:52:49 <H4ns> em: you need to read up on the topic.  search for nat traversal.
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18:52:54 <em> ok
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18:56:28 <lemoinem> H4ns: that usually requires one of the participant not to be FWed, though...
18:56:52 <lemoinem> (If you're thinking about TCP/UDP punching the FW)
18:57:18 <H4ns> lemoinem: that may well be.  i'm not an expert either.  in any case, the question is off topic.
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18:57:42 <lemoinem> H4ns: indeed...
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19:07:54 <didi> pavelpenev: Nice talk. Did you download the audio?
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19:08:51 <pavelpenev> The RPG video was definitely worth watching. Also it gives me an interesting view on possibly the same thing Yeggee observed, but failed(arguably) to express with his conservative-liberal metaphor.
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19:09:28 <pavelpenev> didi: I just watched it in the browser.
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19:10:58 <pavelpenev> damn it, I was thinking about coding tonight, but obviously I'll be doing half-assed philosophy of software again.
19:12:58 <em> http://google.com
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19:31:53 <^pnpuff> em: tontillon :)
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21:51:01 <Quadrescence> praise the lord for clisp's LONG-FLOATs.
21:51:30 <wbooze> sbcl lacks them ?
21:51:41 <pjb> wbooze: yes.
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21:51:51 <pjb> In clisp, you can set the length of the long-floats.
21:52:20 <wbooze> oh man, i somhow thought clisp was discontinued or got reduced dev-activity
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21:52:50 <pjb> wbooze: No, it's a stable and mature implementations.  It doesn't have bugs that need to be patched every month.
21:53:03 <wbooze> ok good to know
21:54:47 <some_user> Sure could need an updated website though.
21:56:25 <Quadrescence> Fortunately the long-floats are pretty fast.
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21:57:37 <Quadrescence> doing 400 iterations' worth of operations on 8x8 matrices of 1000-bit long floats goes in under a second
21:57:58 <Quadrescence> at speed=0 safety=3 debug=3
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22:09:26 <madnificent> Quadrescence: have you compared the speed to SBCL's speed?
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22:25:23 <huangjs> H4ns: can I define dao class using partial columns of a table?
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22:27:31 <Xach> CLISP has plenty of bugs but no releases
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22:28:59 <madnificent> Xach: in terms of non-ansi compliance?  or in terms of not supporting defacto standard libraries?
22:29:12 <madnificent> (or perhas better: not receiving support from defacto standard libraries)
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22:52:20 <jasom> Quadrescence: on x86 doesn't sbcl have long-floats that are the full precision of the x87 unit?
22:52:30 *jasom* hasn't used it on x86 in a while
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22:55:51 <pjb> jasom: with clisp, you can configure your long-floats to have thousands of digits!
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23:00:29 <Quadrescence> and 1000s of digits are what I need
23:00:53 *madnificent* finds it somewhat surprising that that feature hasn't sipled through to other implementations one way or another
23:01:11 <Quadrescence> I hope sbcl or friends get long floats, maybe thru GMP/MPFR
23:01:28 <Quadrescence> and replace their lisp bignums with faster ones while they're at it
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23:02:58 <redline6561> Xach: Any chance you'd be interested in adding my blog to planet lisp? http://blog.redlinernotes.com/tag/lisp-rss.xml
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23:03:18 <pjb> Why don't you just post on cll???
23:03:35 <Xach> redline6561: yes!
23:03:47 <redline6561> Thanks. :)
23:04:10 <alama> any cxml/dom users out there? i'm embarrasingly stuck not knowing how to insert a constant string (in fact, a newline) into an xml document that i'm building in memory
23:05:27 <alama> i know about dom:append-child, but i'm not sure that's what i should be using
23:05:58 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:06:11 <lammb> Am I being clumsy with code like (defmacro test (a b) (let ((diff (gensym))) `(let ((,diff (- a b))) (blah)))) ? Is there an standard abstraction/better way to write it?
23:06:40 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
23:07:11 <didi> lammb: Well, a and b will not the evaluated.
23:07:14 <Quadrescence> can i hire someone to fix my blog's rss
23:07:33 <didi> s/the/get
23:07:45 <lammb> didi, oops (- ,a ,b)
23:07:49 <lammb> Same question though
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23:09:41 <pjb> and ,diff is not used.
23:10:00 <lammb> pjb, it's used implicitly in blah of course :-)
23:10:05 *Xach* is thinking of naming his new venture 978symbols.com
23:10:10 <pjb> It's not possible; it's a gensym.
23:10:20 <alama> Xach: cool
23:10:20 <pjb> so you could write (defmacro test (a b) `(progn ,a ,b (blah)))  instead.
23:11:01 <Xach> redline6561: if you email me i will try not to forget
23:11:03 <lammb> Gah, please avoid the dubious semantics of my snippet, it was the structure of the snippet I Was asking about
23:11:23 <pjb> lammb: (defmacro with-diff ((diffvar a b) &body body) `(let ((,diffvar (- ,a ,b))) ,@body))
23:11:29 <redline6561> Xach: will do
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23:12:02 <redline6561> umm...wait, where? xach@quicklisp.com?
23:12:13 <redline6561> Nevermind. Found it.
23:12:57 <lammb> pjb, OK, thanks. I see that there isn't a standard abstraction, maybe I should start using WITH-UNIQUE-NAMES instead
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23:17:02 <pjb> lammb: the standard abstraction is called LET!
23:17:12 <pjb> (let ((diff (- 1 2)) (do-something diff)).
23:17:17 <pjb> (let ((diff (- 1 2))) (do-something diff)).
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23:18:56 <lammb> It would be very ugly to have to type that in all the places I use it, which I why I thought I should use a macro.
23:19:16 <lammb> No all my uses of DIFF are in the same scope
23:19:30 <didi> lammb: woot? `let' is beautiful.
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23:20:14 <didi> It's possible that I didn't understand your use case.
23:21:25 <lammb> Maybe I don't understand my use case
23:22:21 <lammb> I've convinced myself that whoever thought of WITH-UNIQUE-NAMES was solving the annoyance I have.
23:22:45 <didi> lammb: Maybe you're talking about `with-gensyms'?
23:22:55 <didi> lammb: PCL has a code for that.
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23:25:14 <Bike> with-unique-names is an alias for with-gensyms in alexandria.
23:25:31 <didi> There we go.
23:25:51 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-210-230.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
23:26:07 <lammb> "Why was the name changed from the much more common WITH-GENSYMS? -DRC The name WITH-UNIQUE-NAMES says what the macro is supposed to do, the name WITH-GENSYMS says how the macro is implemented which is irrelevant. (Besides, you don't have to do it with gensyms.)"
23:26:24 <lammb> -- http://www.cliki.net/WITH-UNIQUE-NAMES
23:26:37 <didi> lammb: People are crazy.
23:26:52 <Bike> I don't know what genyms have to do with what you're doing, though.
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23:29:08 <lammb> Bike, hm? I just needed a "safe" name to use, I thought the gensym approach was the way to go, or whatever.
23:29:53 <didi> lammb: Remember that macros are supposed to do code transformation.
23:29:58 *didi* learned the hard way
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23:30:50 <Bike> lammb: well yes, but what's the point if you can't use the name.
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23:31:28 <Bike> pjb's right, all that macro will get you is an unused variable warning.
23:36:31 <lammb> I promise never to post an out of context code snippet again. THis is what I originally had: http://paste.kde.org/553928/ -- ignoring the fact that algorithm could be better, I think now instead of the outer let, I should use WITH-UNIQUE-NAMES instead.
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23:37:06 <Bike> That should be a function.
23:38:31 <Bike> Why did you write it as a macro?
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23:39:56 <lammb> Bike, Oh I see. Because I'm confused.
23:40:37 <lammb> Not mixed up with the compilation vs run-time thing again
23:40:41 <lammb> *Got
23:41:14 <Bike> You could set it to inline, though.
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23:41:54 <Quadrescence> I am going to guess that returning integers isn't good style, depending on what the meaning of those return values is
23:42:08 <Quadrescence> i suspect they mean win, loss, or tie
23:42:55 <lammb> Quadrescence, yes, sorry for the lack of context. I've rewritten this code to use global variables (!) instead of magic numbers now.
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23:43:19 <jasom> lammb: keywords or symbols might be better
23:43:27 <Quadrescence> :win :loss :tie
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23:44:17 <lammb> Ah, of course. Thanks!
23:44:41 <pjb> lammb: you can use zerop plusp and minusp instead of comparing with 0.
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23:48:21 <Quadrescence> lammb, you can also use COM.QUADRESCENCE.UTILITIES.NUMBER-UTILITIES:POSITIVEP  (but be sure to make your program GPL)
23:49:43 <Xach> ho ho ho
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23:50:29 <Quadrescence> ;)
23:51:42 <lammb> Thanks Quadrescence, my program is much more readable now.
23:54:09 <pjb> You cannot use com.quadrescence if you haven't registered the domaine quadrescence.com !
23:54:27 <Quadrescence> i used to but then i let it rot
23:54:34 <pjb> Anybody else could register the domain and use the com.quadrescence prefix!
23:54:40 <pjb> Then you must rename your packages.
23:54:44 <Quadrescence> fine, COM.SYMBO1ICS.UTILITIES.NUMBER-UTILITIES:POSITIVEP  ;; updated
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