00:00:10 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:00:56 sabalaba [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:22 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:04:27 agumonkey [~agu@235.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:33 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:22 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:19 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:10:44 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [] 00:14:06 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 00:17:06 -!- dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:17:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:18:02 -!- xpoqz [~xpozq@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:18:23 dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #lisp 00:19:40 -!- Orpheus [~user1@pool-71-173-143-109.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 00:19:50 Orpheus [~user1@pool-71-173-143-109.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:34 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:23:43 -!- Orpheus [~user1@pool-71-173-143-109.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:25:37 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@mc00536d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:29:17 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:31:33 -!- hugod [~user@70.24.177.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:51 hugod [~user@70.24.177.33] has joined #lisp 00:33:14 Orpheus [~user1@pool-71-173-143-109.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:38:29 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 00:40:17 -!- blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:41:03 -!- _tca [~tca@thewired.me] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:41:53 PuercoPop420 [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 00:42:01 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:43:48 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:44:42 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-19-235.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 00:45:01 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-19-235.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:12 aslan69 [~aslan69@c-75-71-21-183.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:01 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:49:34 -!- PuercoPop420 [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:51:21 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:51:40 PuercoPop420 [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 00:52:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:55:27 what exactly is the difference of running slime within emacs and just doing sbcl or clisp in a terminal? 00:56:03 slime is basically an ide 00:56:03 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:56:32 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:05 -!- jfe [~jfe@12.34.212.237] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:57:14 -!- mrpat [~jackie@pool-108-52-83-154.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:57:43 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 01:00:10 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:01:51 while CLISP is somewhat nice in bare terminal, SBCL does *zero* (or near zero) processing of command line, so you have to either load linedit package, or deal with it, or use SLIME 01:02:03 SLIME is however superior to using just terminal 01:02:38 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-66.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:02:48 nice inspector, good editing of code, ability to compile just what you need, hilight just the changed code, jump to definition, etc. etc. 01:06:12 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.119] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:06:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:08:07 i see 01:09:19 jfe [~jfe@ool-18bfe75c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:01 -!- bitonic [~user@149.241.22.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:10:29 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:10:57 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483B678.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:29 -!- CrazyEddy [~emigratio@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:12:30 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B3E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:12:57 PuercoPop712 [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 01:13:54 -!- PuercoPop420 [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:14:35 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:15:10 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:16:30 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.211] has joined #lisp 01:18:15 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:18:54 -!- kcj_ [~casey@203-173-215-59.dialup.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Quit: kcj_] 01:19:18 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 01:22:27 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-39.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:22:38 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:24:07 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@13.47.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:24:55 Anyone happen to know how ContextL works? 01:26:02 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-148-194.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 01:26:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:28:12 https://github.com/snmsts/daemon 01:28:33 hi everyone I'm trying to use this from a bash script 01:28:54 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:29:07 but when the sleep period ends, the lisp program stops 01:29:40 the lisp program is only hunchentoot 01:30:33 would someone give me advice for using this so that hunchentoot will remain running 01:30:55 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:31:20 duko: what's your script look like? 01:32:00 it calls 'sbcl --load ./init.lisp' 01:32:17 the lisp, I mean. 01:32:27 i would share this file if I were with it 01:32:44 it looks just like the example daemon script 01:32:54 Except you don't call daemon:exit? 01:32:56 except it loads hunhchentoot 01:33:14 right 01:33:59 ah i do have my laptop i'll open this file now 01:34:22 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:34:35 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:36:09 -!- axion1 [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:39:00 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:42:56 -!- urandom__ [~user@p54B0E394.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:43:25 http://www.pastebin.ca/2205450 01:43:48 i looked at the file and type-copied that to the machine I'm on 01:44:47 duko: and the daemon isn't running? I mean, the lisp program is supposed to stop 01:45:25 i would like the shell to exit 01:45:33 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:45:46 and hunchentoot to continue running 01:46:38 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:47:19 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-39.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 01:48:43 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:49:47 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 01:50:24 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:52:27 sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:53:29 justinmcp [~justinmcp@13.47.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:54:29 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:55:50 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:56:52 well thanks everyone 01:56:56 good night 01:56:57 -!- duko [~duko@static-71-177-221-121.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 01:57:25 Tedl [~tedl@99-67-233-232.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:16 CrazyEddy [~uninvaded@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 01:59:58 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:00:57 gkeith_lt [gkeith@nat/google/x-qdncqrmptzzdtfmx] has joined #lisp 02:00:58 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02:46 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:59 oh......no...no 02:03:15 using spectrwm and emacs creates major problems :/ 02:03:23 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:03:58 M-x kills the window :/ 02:04:59 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:07:34 Orpheus: so... change a binding? 02:07:38 why must working with lisp create so many problems without me even touching it? XD 02:08:19 this would be so much better if i had the mod4 key on this laptop 02:09:22 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:10:30 exotic environments create exotic problems. 02:11:03 i wouldnt call spectrwm exotic 02:12:06 learning lisp creates many problems even when it has nothing to do with the lisp programming language >_> 02:12:49 Or more broadly, computers = bad. 02:13:47 computers arnt bad. they are much more reliable then most people i know. problems arise. no biggie. 02:13:56 than* 02:14:31 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:19:27 wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 02:20:52 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:23:35 -!- zmyrgel [~user@a91-153-150-75.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:31 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:25:29 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:26:17 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:26:34 deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:29:58 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@13.47.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:30:48 justinmcp [~justinmcp@13.47.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:31:40 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:32:35 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 02:32:49 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@13.47.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:05 justinmcp [~justinmcp@13.47.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:33:54 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@13.47.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:59 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-vrdjkjtufxaqfrbs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:16 -!- gkeith_lt [gkeith@nat/google/x-qdncqrmptzzdtfmx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:36:35 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:38:49 -!- findiggle1 [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:43:12 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:46:05 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.211] has joined #lisp 02:46:12 ISF [~ivan@189.61.221.122] has joined #lisp 02:46:13 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:46:44 -!- trebor_home [~email@dslb-178-004-067-070.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:52:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:53:26 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:55:08 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:57:56 -!- agumonkey [~agu@235.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:59:53 -!- rjmt [~uid1@46-65-28-90.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:01:06 rjmt_ [~uid1@46-65-28-90.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:01:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:02:45 I have been having dreams about the functional programming paradigm since I found out about lisp :p 03:03:19 what is it like? 03:03:28 also I start to see things everywhere that I think would be ideal to model in pure functions 03:04:47 I dunno. in one dream I was playing a computer game with my friend and to beat it I told you he has to think functionally, I remember "sensing" some kind of round white 3d fogs in my parallel vision while I was manipulating the game with my conscious mind :D 03:04:53 rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-171-9-98.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:05:00 *I told him 03:05:10 so what got everyone in here interested in lisp? if you dont mind me asking...i personally got interested after seeing some pics on xkcd talking about it 03:05:24 hmm. 03:06:38 I got into Lisp when I was trying out new software on Linux, and wanted to do more with Emacs. 03:06:45 the first I heard about it was like 8 years ago or so, when a friend of mine was programming scheme in helsinki univ. of tech., and he mentioned lisp and the parentheses, so basically the concept of recursion 03:06:46 or at least that is what made me do a duckduckgo search 03:06:48 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:07:14 one day I looked at my C++ operator precedence cheat sheet and thought, "this is boring" 03:07:24 lol 03:07:41 then bits and pieces, but never paid attention to it. didn't really figure out what or why it was. then I saw the book 'land of lisp' in a bookstore and it kinda made a case. 03:08:16 Bike: ahaha 03:08:36 a friend in college talked it up a lot, and I ended up going with it as my first actual programming language, after a brief stint with python. It ruined programming for me. 03:08:55 python or lisp? 03:09:01 lisp 03:09:10 I have done a little C and it drove me nuts having to specify everything in anal detail and create elaborate loops for simple logic 03:09:31 sykopomp: that is sad :( 03:09:45 it is 03:09:49 im sorry 03:10:10 sykopomp: you mean Lisp ruined you for other languages, or it made programming not-fun? 03:10:23 a little bit of both. 03:10:31 Hm. :/ 03:11:13 unfortunate 03:11:20 I expect too much from other languages now, and I keep spending time trying to take the few things I like from other languages and bringing them to Lisp. 03:11:28 because that seems like the natural course of action. 03:12:14 so it made you relearn programming? ;) 03:12:26 I didn't relearn anything. 03:12:30 I learned to program with CL. 03:12:41 hmm, okay :) 03:12:49 apart from -very- basic python, I knew nothing before I picked up Gentle Intro. 03:13:48 lisp has made it very easy to pick up new languages, though. At least that's helped me with finding work. :) 03:14:05 _b 03:14:31 dardoria [~boiantz@130-204-57-104.2074625074.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:16:08 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 03:16:27 -!- dardoria [~boiantz@130-204-57-104.2074625074.ddns.cablebg.net] has left #lisp 03:20:37 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:22:02 dnolen` [~user@108.54.21.53] has joined #lisp 03:22:33 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:24:16 -!- Tuxedo [~tuxedo@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:24:29 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:24:54 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-f7b2e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:25:05 SHODAN 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[~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:39:49 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:40:42 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-yfeildihmadbgqgs] has joined #lisp 07:40:43 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:40:48 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-78-211.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:42:04 so, I have an AST from a DSL I am mucking with (thanks pjb for the help the other day), and I am now going to try to compile it into cl, how should I structure the compiler? 07:42:46 if I were doing it in python, I would probably do something like a visitor, where I have a method or function for each type of node 07:43:13 and a hash table of all the node-types to the appropriate function 07:43:14 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:43:14 -!- rabite_ [~rabite@4chan.fm] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:43:14 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:43:14 -!- eudicot [foocraft@ibawizard.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:43:14 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:43:14 -!- frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:43:14 -!- xaxisx [~joey@67.217.170.130] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:43:14 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:43:14 -!- Guest63158 [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:43:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:43:23 srcerer_ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 07:43:26 <|3b|> easiest is to just use CL as the AST :) 07:43:54 yea, it is a list 07:44:05 or a tree, but it's all in cl list 07:44:19 <|3b|> can you define functions/macros for the various forms? if so, do so and just pass it directly to compile or eval 07:44:46 <|3b|> otherwise, 'something like a visitor' is probably the next step 07:45:05 but at the highest level, it's just going to be a big switch statement or hash table? 07:45:24 where as it visits each node, it dispatches to the appropriate function to translate that node? 07:45:46 <|3b|> no, i mean define actual functions so the AST compiles directly as CL code 07:46:05 if you define functions and macros, you're basically using the package as the hash and eval/compile as the walker 07:46:14 <|3b|> right 07:46:23 ahh, I see 07:46:37 I think 07:46:50 <|3b|> though it is isn't really using packages as the hash, since you have actual symbols and don't need to look them up in a packahe 07:47:10 well, the package system, yeah. the point is that CL does the lookup for you. 07:47:17 so I just define macros/functions with the same names as the symbols, then eval the AST? 07:47:22 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:47:26 <|3b|> right 07:47:29 clever 07:47:41 rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has joined #lisp 07:47:48 ok, I'm sure to run into trouble and come limping back for help :) 07:47:49 <|3b|> helps if you design the AST structure with that in mind, and doesn't always work well if you want more complex transformations 07:47:49 thanks 07:48:06 |3b|: example? (curiosity) 07:48:29 <|3b|> examples of more complex transforms you mean? 07:48:36 <|3b|> or designing the ast to be compiled directly? 07:48:41 -!- maxm- [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:48:43 more complex transforms. 07:48:57 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 07:49:22 springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has joined #lisp 07:49:44 oh, I suppose anything where you need to maintain a special "environment" would be a bit weird 07:49:57 (assign 07:49:57 (identifier x) 07:49:57 (plus (integer-literal 1) (integer-literal 2))) 07:50:01 <|3b|> hmm, probably anything that wants to mess with namespaces (like alpha conversion or maybe converting between lisp1 and lisp2, or rearranging scoping) 07:50:11 so that is a simple-ish tree that this generates 07:50:42 |3b|: I see. 07:51:22 ltbarcly1: assign = setf, define a setf method for identifier, plus = +, integer-literal = typecheck then identity? 07:51:23 lets say I want to translate that to: 07:51:24 (let ((x (+ 1 2)))) 07:51:43 that's a nop. 07:51:49 well, one issue is that assign isn't quite the same as setf, so I'm going to have to keep some state or something to know when to end blocks 07:52:07 in reality, code like: 07:52:07 x = 1 + 2 07:52:07 print(x) 07:52:11 needs to come out as: 07:52:11 <|3b|> if you don't have an enclosing form that defines X, you might need to do some more work 07:52:37 (let ((x (+ 1 2))) (format t x)) 07:52:57 oh, yeah, if assign also declares the existence of the variable it's more complicated 07:53:11 because most languages with block/lexical scoping don't parse nicely into something where lexical scoping is explicit, like lisp 07:54:02 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-121-218-105-234.lnse4.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:54:03 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:54:23 eudicot [foocraft@ibawizard.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:23 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:23 frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 07:54:23 xaxisx [~joey@67.217.170.130] has joined #lisp 07:54:23 DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 07:54:23 Guest63158 [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 07:54:24 <|3b|> depending on how you want it to handle using X before it is assigned, it might7 not be too hard 07:54:32 I was previously writing this in python, and I solved that problem by keeping a stack of 'namespaces' and putting the right number of extra ')'s whenever I popped a namespace into oblivion 07:54:43 you could have like... (defmacro seq (&rest statements) (if (asgn-stmt (first statements)) `(let ...) something-else)? 07:54:54 paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:55:00 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.221.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:55:35 I ended up with code like (let .((x 1)) (let ((y 2)) (print (+ x y)))) when there was code like "x=1;y=2;print(x+y)" 07:55:52 <|3b|> yeah, that is reasonable 07:55:54 but I figured the compiler would optimize the superfluous lets away, or I could go back later and optimize them out 07:55:55 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:56:03 sounds good to me. 07:56:08 <|3b|> right, compiler should deal with that for you 07:56:28 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:56:40 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:56:52 *|3b|* would probably lean towards adding some sort of 'scope' form wherever you enter a block that would implicitly terminate a lexical scope (like a function body) 07:57:35 rather than just letting each such form deal with it? like I have a form funcdef 07:57:57 -!- Guest63158 [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [Quit: bubye irssi] 07:57:59 I think the only forms that I need to worry about are function defs actually 07:58:06 or methods if I have those 07:58:20 well you'd have funcdef expand into a scope form, which then expands into whatever 07:59:01 that way you could easily reuse the scope code if you decide you need it in more than one place. 07:59:09 now I just have to figure out how to do it cleanly, in my previous attempt I was just munging strings, so it was easier to do dirty tricks (I'm sure it's not hard in lisp either, but I am a complete amateur) 07:59:17 jeekl [~crz@46.19.36.208] has joined #lisp 07:59:17 -!- jeekl [~crz@46.19.36.208] has quit [Changing host] 07:59:17 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 07:59:33 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:59:37 here is the previous attempt if you are curious: https://github.com/justinvanwinkle/pycl/blob/master/compile.py 07:59:44 <|3b|> then use something like 'compiler-let' to bind an environment object, that 'identifier' form can modify/access, and at this point i'm sort of losing track of what i was trying to do anyway :) 08:00:52 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 08:01:31 <|3b|> what sort of scoping rules do you use? if only funcdef creates scopes, do you have JS style where all variables are visible in entire function? 08:01:53 <|3b|> for example do variables defined in a loop body exist after the loop exits? 08:02:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:02:50 no, it's python style 08:03:00 because I don't want my language to have to have 'undefined' 08:03:06 *|3b|* has no idea what that is 08:03:21 in js, the value of a variable that hasn't been assigned to is 'undefined' 08:03:32 *|3b|* only uses the python that compiles sbcl 08:03:53 oh, so in python you create a variable by assigning to it 08:04:04 *|3b|* has to go afk for a while 08:04:12 or by having it as a parameter 08:04:16 and it's bound after that assignment in that lexical scope, and not before? 08:04:22 right 08:04:31 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:04:41 it works like the let example I gave earlier 08:04:43 what about loops? 08:04:51 loops don't do anything to scope 08:04:54 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:04:55 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:05:01 They don't establish a scope either? 08:05:04 no 08:05:11 neither do conditionals 08:05:17 which can lead to bugs of course 08:05:44 nice and easy, then. (but i'd still have a scope macro for modularity and all) 08:10:54 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 08:11:47 jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.247] has joined #lisp 08:12:09 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:14:02 since in the method you guys are recommending the final tree will always be a valid tree, I wonder what the best way to deal with the LET thing is 08:14:11 since I can't just come along later and add closing ')' 08:14:23 what let thing? 08:14:35 like if I have an AST like: 08:15:03 (block (assign x 1) (assign y 2) (print (+ x y)) 08:15:10 that's a pseudo ast :) 08:15:15 then I need to output: 08:15:41 (let ((x 1)) (let ((y 2)) (print (+ x y))) 08:15:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:15:52 I missed some closing parens I think 08:15:58 ltbarcly1: then you need to find first what are the variables you need to allocate. 08:16:16 (let ((x 1)) 08:16:17 (let ((y 2)) 08:16:17 (print (+ x y)))) 08:16:18 (find-free-variables '(block (assign x 1) (assign y 2) (print (+ x y)))) --> (x y) 08:16:21 ltbarcly1: I'm missing the problem, sorry. 08:16:37 (find-free-variables-with-init '(block (assign x 1) (assign y 2) (print (+ x y)))) --> ((x 1) (y 2)) 08:16:38 pjb: but I don't want those names to exist before the first assignment 08:16:46 uhg, actually that gives me 2 problems 08:17:08 problem 1 is the one I already mentioned, problem 2 is that I have to know if something is already assigned so I setf it instead of masking it 08:17:21 -!- longlene [~loong0@112.2.228.217] has left #lisp 08:17:31 So, remember what I told you, you can also generate the LET when you see the ASSIGN, generting the rest of the statements in the body of the let. 08:17:43 just keep a dynamically bound list of bound variables while macroexpanding? 08:17:56 oh, you're right, you did mention that 08:18:01 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:18:13 yep, ok, I think I'm ready to go bang my head against this, thanks for all the help! 08:18:37 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18:50 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:18:57 (defun compile-form (form env) (cond  ((eql 'assign (first (first form))) (if (variable-exists-p (second (first form)) env) `(setf ) `(let , (compile-form (rest form) (add-variable (second (first form)) env))))) )) 08:19:06 ltbarcly1: add newlines and indent to see it well. 08:19:14 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:06 (block (assign x 2) (assign x (* 3 x)) (print x)) --> (let ((x 2)) (setf x (* 3 x)) (print x)) 08:20:33 Well, if the variable exists (if there's a let for it), you want to use setf, eg. when you're in loops. 08:20:44 exactly right 08:22:53 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:23:37 I guess I can still implement ENV as a stack of hash-tables, and something is in ENV if it is anywhere in the stack, and whenever I add a name to it it just adds it to the hash-table at the top of the stack 08:24:00 that way when I pop it off, all the names in that level go away (or don't in the case of masked names) 08:24:11 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-171-9-98.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:25:08 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 08:25:16 or even a list of lists would work, I guess that would be easier to do 08:27:53 I don't suppose I'm lucky enough that lisp supports lexically created special variables :) 08:28:02 or dynamically created I mean 08:28:13 progv, you mean? 08:28:58 I mean where instead of keeping an ENV variable like pjb's example, I could create a variable on the spot, but which would be destroyed after that function's execution 08:29:17 basically so I could define a symbol for the variable in my language, then have it go away at the appropriate time, instead of doing the book-keeping myself 08:29:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:29:51 and I could check whether a variable was already defined in that scope or above in my language by using BOUNDP or something 08:30:02 yeah, that's progv. (progv (list 'a) (list 4) (locally (declare (special a))) a) => 4 08:30:26 holy crap 08:30:28 er, the locally's wrong. I've never used progv. 08:31:17 (progv (list 'a) (list 4) (locally (declare (special a)) a)), there we go 08:31:27 clhs even mentions using it for asts, heh. 08:31:27 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for even mentions using it for asts, heh.. 08:31:40 clhs progv 08:31:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_progv.htm 08:31:52 it actually seems to work just like I described 08:34:13 * (defun x-boundp () (boundp '*x*)) 08:34:13 X-BOUNDP 08:34:13 * (progv '(*x*) '(2) (x-boundp)) 08:34:13 T 08:34:13 * (x-boundp) 08:34:13 NIL 08:34:19 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:34:36 check the clhs entry if you want specifics on the behavior. 08:34:51 but yes, that's what it does. and the lists don't have to be quoted, of course. 08:37:22 I think (defmacro assign (var val) `(locally (declare (special ,var)) (setf ,var ,val))) and (defmacro scope (&rest statements) (if (eq (caar statements) 'assign) `(let ((,(second (first statements)) ,(third (first statements)))) (declare (special ,(second first statements))) (scope ,@(rest statements)) ...) would be enough though. but now I will also afk. 08:37:23 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:37:23 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:37:35 my biggest fear is that once I know lisp well enough to implement my compiler, I won't want to use the compiler anymore 08:38:01 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:41:37 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-237-171.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:43:01 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:43:33 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 08:43:33 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 08:44:11 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:50:29 alama [~textual@stgt-5f7170db.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:47 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:51:35 springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has joined #lisp 08:55:13 -!- hiredman_ [~hiredman@ip67-152-53-125.z53-152-67.customer.algx.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:55:30 hiredman [~hiredman@ip67-152-53-125.z53-152-67.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:28 mikehoy [~mikehoy@ip24-255-40-216.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:02 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:58:25 how do you define a common lisp function that returns a string argument? I've tried (defun test (string) and many variations of format t then when I call it (test "test") it outputs an error 08:59:01 maybe the question is better asked how do you pass a string to a function in common lisp? 08:59:43 <|3b|> you pass and return strings just like any other value 08:59:58 (test "AAA") ? 09:00:10 I want that back from my function 09:00:12 AAA 09:00:42 <|3b|> (defun test (anything) anything) creates a function that will return whatever you pass to it 09:00:49 <|3b|> including strings 09:00:53 thanks 09:01:10 <|3b|> (CL calls that particular function IDENTITY) 09:01:36 m4dnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 09:03:36 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:03:44 I never would have thought that (defun test (string) string) would have worked considering string is repeated for no obvious reason 09:03:49 herbieB_ [~herbie@s15434998.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 09:04:00 <|3b|> it is repeated for quite obvious reasons 09:04:06 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-63-206.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:04:14 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:04:14 -!- herbieB [~herbie@s15434998.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:04:14 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:05:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:05:35 <|3b|> the (string) specifies the arguments to the functions, functions generally return the results of evaluating the body in an implicit PROGN, in the case the body if the variable STRING which is bound to the first argument of the function 09:05:45 <|3b|> *the body is the variable 09:05:59 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 09:07:02 mikehoy: (defun test (test) test) works too 09:07:34 is the second (on in the other case) normally indented on the second line? 09:08:22 like for example (defun test (string) \n \t string) 09:08:25 sepeth [~user@78.186.252.240] has joined #lisp 09:08:37 mikehoy: yes, that's common 09:08:47 ok thanks that clears it up a bit for me 09:08:51 <|3b|> use spaces rather than literal tab character though :) 09:08:58 (defun |defun| (defun) defun) looks slightly more cryptic 09:09:00 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:09:03 yes was just using that for demonstrative purposes 09:10:32 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:52 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:56 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Quit: http://www.cyphase.com/] 09:14:09 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:27 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:15:38 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:19:57 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:21:10 nostoi [~nostoi@21.Red-79-157-234.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:43 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:23:56 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 09:24:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:24:28 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:28:19 agumonkey [~agu@235.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:41 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 09:31:18 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xof 09:31:50 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o Xof 09:32:17 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:33:31 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 09:35:01 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:14 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:35:47 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:37:07 -!- springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:41:57 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:45:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:46:29 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:49:41 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:50:39 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@21.Red-79-157-234.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:50:42 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 09:51:00 bitonic [~user@027cae25.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 09:53:28 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:53:52 springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has joined #lisp 09:57:43 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:00:23 cpape` [~user@78.47.242.233] has joined #lisp 10:01:01 -!- cpape [~user@cpape.eu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:01:31 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:54 -!- tdmackey [~tdmackey@booleanhaiku.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:01:56 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 10:02:01 tdmackey [~tdmackey@booleanhaiku.com] has joined #lisp 10:03:16 lammb [~lammb@host86-147-195-183.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:04:22 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:05:06 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 10:06:00 what's the difference between (let ((*random-state* (make-random-state t))) (random 1.0)) and this: (let ((*random-state* (make-random-state t))) (random 1.0 *random-state*)) ? 10:06:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:06:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:07:57 francogrex: None? 10:08:03 why ? 10:08:09 <|3b|> looks about the same to me, aside from one being longer 10:08:26 francogrex: Because you bind the special variable in the first and pass it as a argument in the second. 10:08:41 so the fact that you add *random-state* as optional to random doesn't make any difference? 10:08:42 <|3b|> optional second argument of RANDOM defaults to the value of *RANDOM-STATE* 10:08:48 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:09:00 ok I see 10:09:00 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:10 *|3b|* supposes they could be different if *RANDOM-STATE* isn't CL:*RANDOM-STATE* 10:10:03 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:34 yes sure if I say let ((rnd (make-random-state ... then it would make a difference (random 1.0) and (random 1.0 rnd) 10:10:51 <|3b|> right 10:11:00 but the *RANDOM-STATE* is reserved then right? 10:11:04 ok 10:11:38 <|3b|> everything in CL package is reserved 10:12:01 <|3b|> (for definitions of 'reserved' that might not match other languages' definitions) 10:12:03 francogrex: I wouldn't called it "reserved" as in "do not use it". 10:13:12 francogrex: If you have a algorithm that uses `random', binding *random-state* to a known value let you test it in a consistent way. 10:13:17 <|3b|> the special variables like *random-state* exported from the CL package are there to be bound as variables, so using them in a LET is reasonable 10:13:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.43] has joined #lisp 10:13:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.43] has quit [Changing host] 10:13:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:15:15 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:19:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:21:02 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:29 I'm concerned that I'm doing something nasty here: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=sYtNy9iL -- any advice on the style would be appreciated. 10:26:58 suggestion 1: use paste.lisp.org 10:27:01 *Xach* checks the paste 10:27:39 I think it might be down 10:28:40 that is rotten. ok. 10:28:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:29:40 -!- lammb [~lammb@host86-147-195-183.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:11 lammb [~lammb@host86-147-195-183.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:30:41 Oh my days, sorry Xach (and anyone else who replied to me), as soon as I noted paste.lisp.org was down, my computer crashed... 10:30:57 I'll have to find some logs. 10:31:40 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:31:42 lammb: You might want to take a look at ALEXANDRIA:WHEN-LET 10:32:06 lammb: You can use (setf ...) 10:32:07 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:32:12 -!- mikehoy [~mikehoy@ip24-255-40-216.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:32:24 lammb: maybe memoization would work 10:32:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:32:52 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:33:05 (alexandria:if-let ((fok (ranks ...)) (values ... fok)) etc...) 10:33:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:33:36 lammb: http://paste.kde.org/552824/ 10:34:07 xpoqz [~xpozq@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 10:34:49 H4ns, I had considered memoizing KIND (if that's what you mean), but in this case, I'm not sure if it would be worth it, I was wondering if there was "cleaner" way of doing this logic, I'll take a look at ALEXANDRIA, thanks loke_erc. 10:35:16 didi, Ah, thanks, that appeals to my past programming idioms at least, which maybe isn't a good thing! :-) 10:36:25 lammb: i'd avoid restructuring the code if KIND is not expensive. and if it is and KIND is pure, memoization would be that "cleaner" way 10:36:27 *didi* . o O ( not sure if flattered or offended ) 10:37:11 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:37:17 didi, Ooops, I'll apologise in advance, but I didn't mean to flatter or offend :-( 10:37:34 lammb: :^P 10:38:18 H4ns, fair enough, KIND isn't very expensive, so I think I should live with it until it becomes a problem, that's how the pros do it, right? :-) 10:38:22 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:39:18 lammb: that is how i'd do it. 10:42:07 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:42:48 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:43:00 snits [~snits@71-223-166-67.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:55 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-121-218-105-234.lnse4.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bye] 10:51:38 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:55:31 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 10:55:57 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.179] has joined #lisp 10:56:18 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:57:07 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 10:59:05 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:59:23 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-239-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:01:19 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:03:16 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:05:49 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:07:39 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:08:20 VieiraN [~VieiraN@200-171-134-92.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 11:08:41 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:09 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:11:55 If you have a function which is undefined on an input, i.e., an input that makes not sense to add to your test suite, should you through an error, or just let it assume the natural base case of a recursion for instance. 11:12:22 For the function STRAIGHT, which return true if the poker hand is a straight, it doesn't make any sense to ask if the empy list is a straight 11:12:25 lammb: signal errors as early as you can. 11:12:34 But I'd incur an overhead checking these case in all my functions 11:12:56 My STRAIGHT function just returns T when presented with '(), which isn't "right", but should I care? 11:13:05 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 11:13:29 returning something bogus because the input can't be interpreted rarely makes the program easier to understand or to debug 11:13:59 Gah, but it looks much purtier without dirty error handling sprinkled everywhere! :P 11:14:20 that is why you signal an error instead of returning the error in line. 11:14:32 that allows you to put error handling at higher levels 11:14:57 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:15:02 Is this the condition system I've heard mention of? I'll go read about that. 11:15:07 and in your case, if the straight function is supposed to never be called with nil, it would be indicative of an error somewhere when it is ever called with nil. 11:15:14 lammb: I would back up a bit and ask myself why would STRAIGHT receive a empty list. 11:15:45 didi, I can't imagine how it ever would, but like H4ns said, if it does, something terrible has happened, and the program should die loudly. 11:16:10 lammb: Not die, but throw an error. 11:16:18 I need a sufficiently smarter compiler. 11:16:58 Thanks for the advice guys, I'll read up on error handling in CL. 11:17:33 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:17:38 lammb: But I wouldn't personally say that returning nil to (straight ()) is too awkward. () isn't a straight, after all. 11:18:12 didi, I'm sure how you can define that, it represents an empty hand, I consider that totally undefined? 11:18:39 <|3b|> every card in that hand is in sequence 11:18:53 *|3b|* would call all 0 or 1 card hands straights and flushes 11:18:56 lammb: An empty hand isn't a straight, right? 11:19:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.175.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:19:27 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.175.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 11:19:31 lammb, A writing desk isn't a raven, right? 11:19:53 ? 11:19:56 Not sure why I addressed that to myself. 11:20:01 <|3b|> didi: if you can add cards to it without causing it to be not a straight, i'd say it is a straight 11:20:04 I just don't think it's defined. 11:20:07 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:21:11 lammb: Sure it is. A straight is t, everything else is nil. 11:22:58 didi, hm, not sure I follow that. I'm going to continue in a bone-headed fashion to insist it is undefined :D 11:23:12 lammb: Sure. Your call. 11:23:23 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:24:00 <|3b|> yeah, not particularly useful either way :) 11:25:04 ludston [~patience@CPE-121-218-240-135.lnse4.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:25:57 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@179.167-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 11:25:57 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@179.167-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 11:25:57 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 11:27:01 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27:18 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 11:28:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:29:28 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 11:29:28 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 11:30:33 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:31:28 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-144-139.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:32:21 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 11:36:04 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:41:26 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 11:43:04 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:48:38 pbgc [~pbgc@bl20-175-199.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:48:41 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:54:28 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:55:53 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:00:51 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:00:53 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.175.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:02:34 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.175.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 12:05:44 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:07:20 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:07:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:07:46 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:08:34 surrounder [~surrounde@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 12:09:10 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:10:25 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:13:19 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:13:38 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:20:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:22:43 steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:25:16 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.179] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 12:25:55 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:28:44 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:18 trigen_ [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:28f7:64d:2bd6:7949] has joined #lisp 12:29:40 Sometimes I wonder if _anyone_ has ever used weblocks for anything sensible... 12:30:24 ams: last time i looked the mailing list was active. 12:30:24 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 12:30:53 -!- trigen [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:28f7:64d:2bd6:7949] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:30:58 Xach: Mmm... Can't find any decent documentation or anything about weblocks ... The mailinglist looked quiet as well. 12:31:51 ams: http://www.thanandar.de/ runs on weblocks, last I checked, as well as elephant. 12:32:05 ams: the people who wrote it are too busy using it for sensible things to write documentation :) 12:32:10 hunchentoot is popular these days 12:32:32 H4ns: Ah, point taken .. :-) 12:32:34 JuanDaugherty: basically because there is no real alternative. 12:32:46 in lisp yeah 12:32:48 sykopomp: Source code? 12:32:59 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:32:59 ams: closed, I believe 12:33:08 in haskell there's a vigorous competition 12:33:21 sykopomp: Then it could be written in brainf*ck for all anyone cares :-) 12:33:50 I'm trying to make the simplest thing possible, signup/login, and have each user show up with some basic data... horrible. 12:34:17 ams: why? It's using weblocks. You asked if anything did. 12:34:38 if you want something simple, use hunchentoot. It's much more simple-friendly than a 'web framework.' 12:35:18 Maybe. 12:35:54 Lots of nice things about weblocks though; I love views ... 12:36:23 sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:47 But I suspect I'll be convinced if someone says just do it in plain old hunchentoot ... ;-) 12:37:38 Do it in plain, old hunchentoot. 12:37:49 ams: what everyone does is look at the other "frameworks", recognize that they all suck one way or the other, and then create their own, sucky framework 12:38:18 jji: Never! Erm .. 12:38:19 vicious cycles are what lisp is all about; ``utility libraries'' 12:38:35 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:39:04 Amadiro [~Amadiro@233-56-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 12:39:31 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.240] has joined #lisp 12:39:47 Yeah ... oh well. 12:41:44 Hunchentoot also seems more lispy for some odd reason. 12:41:59 what is "lispy"? 12:42:09 by virtue of being pieces parts 12:42:40 rather than the next big thing 12:43:01 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:43:13 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:46:10 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:46:10 -!- cpape` [~user@78.47.242.233] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:46:10 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-63-206.cust.tele2.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:46:10 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:46:10 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:46:10 -!- sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:46:10 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:46:10 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:46:10 -!- cracauer [cracauer@nat/google/x-adpwqfbvkhahcwrs] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:46:10 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/x-hjrhwlocfeedxtvi] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:46:10 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:46:10 -!- sytse [sytse@5.9.233.115] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:46:10 -!- Guest50086 [user@nat/google/x-yqacbmebgixdheiq] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:46:10 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:46:10 -!- nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:46:18 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:47:02 sabalaba [~Adium@2602:306:cfc8:8c30:5c32:b87c:8633:cc3a] has joined #lisp 12:47:41 nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 12:48:01 cpape` [~user@cpape.eu] has joined #lisp 12:49:26 Fade [~fade@206-248-191-160.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 12:49:50 sytse [sytse@vps.swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 12:50:00 Guest50086 [user@nat/google/x-dbnmdljvhvlrhcmx] has joined #lisp 12:50:10 wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:13 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:50:18 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:50:38 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 12:50:49 -!- pbgc [~pbgc@bl20-175-199.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:51:03 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:52:25 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:36 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:54:42 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-63-206.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:54:48 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 12:55:34 sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 12:56:42 sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 12:57:28 pbgc [~pbgc@2.81.175.199] has joined #lisp 12:58:21 Modius [~user@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:58:51 What are the technical challenges behind a "macroexpand-all" that would leave it out of the spec? I mean inherent gotcha, I'm not trying to implement, just trying to understand. . . 12:59:39 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:00:52 Scope? 13:01:18 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-iugimviezhuhnfge] has joined #lisp 13:01:27 cracauer [cracauer@nat/google/x-khdgluwrahbzbvkm] has joined #lisp 13:01:39 billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-55-139.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:39 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-55-139.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:01:39 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:02:19 Recusion? 13:03:46 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:04:55 -!- wws [~billstcla@67.158.164.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:05:28 Modius: Not that I'd know, but I imagine recursive macro's could unfold into a bit of a mess. 13:07:54 As i think about it. . . macroexpand is trivial; but macroexpand-all has to maintain what may need to be a secondary interpreter for all possible special forms. 13:08:20 Interpret-time expansion of macrolets can do its thing in the normal course of operation. 13:08:21 it's called a code-walker 13:09:16 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:10:03 stassats: What's a code walker? 13:10:19 what Modius says 13:12:50 Modius: Why does macroexpand-all have to understand all special forms? 13:13:06 ludston: it needs to know what to expand and what not 13:13:27 That makes sense. 13:13:33 Thanks 13:14:00 (let ((defun foo))); do you need to expand (defun foo) or not? 13:14:00 They put augment-environment back in LW 6 - I should take a peek at the walkers again sometime (separate topic) 13:14:41 LW, SBCL (on linux) and CCL (win32/linux/mac) are all pretty **** solid 13:15:01 four stars solid? what should be done to get them to five stars? 13:15:14 Sorry, I meant that in place of an expletive of unspecified word count. 13:15:39 BeWhy [~chatzilla@c-76-124-138-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:42 Modius: What 13:15:48 Is an expletive? 13:15:50 it's not spelled "count" and please don't try to spell it properly. it is ok in england but in america it is quite offensive. 13:16:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:16:27 -!- My_Hearing is now known as Mon_Ouie 13:16:29 I mean unspecified letter count. I meant fu**ing mostly. 13:16:42 I wasn't trying to use the C word; but suspect you're probably fu**ing with me. 13:16:49 if you're going to swear, using stars is pointless 13:16:54 Modius: What's that word mean? 13:17:00 fu**ing? 13:17:05 i would never fun with you 13:17:13 Is it a symbol? 13:17:52 And being originally from oz and well versed in the use of the C word, it wouldn't have made grammatical sense where I put ****. 13:18:04 Netfeed [~netfeed@cinch/fan/netfeed] has joined #lisp 13:18:32 I was told in college by a dude who'd done a one year stint in the US who found out I was going: "The US is great - just stop saying the word "C***" every other word or you WILL get beaten up" 13:18:55 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:19:41 -!- rjmt_ [~uid1@46-65-28-90.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:28 I w*** n*w wr**e li** th*s; c***e I'm **ig*i* aw*so**. 13:21:53 D: 13:21:59 I found that easier to read than leet-speak 13:22:13 *JuanDaugherty* was asked not use f*** in another channel 13:22:25 Modius: iirc c**t is less accepted in UK than USA... 13:22:36 turned out to be a christian thing 13:22:46 mormon I guess 13:22:50 can we talk about lisp already? 13:22:58 JuanDaugherty: moron 13:23:13 T**s *s a*l ***te si**y, *f y*u wa**a f*****g c***e, **en d* *o. 13:23:21 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:23:22 stassats: Tho guyth, whatth-up? 13:23:26 is there a lisp blah/cafe? 13:23:38 JuanDaugherty: pjb maintains a few channels of that type 13:23:54 lol, should only be 1 13:24:00 ludston: please, come to collect the Most Original Joke Award 13:24:17 *Bows* 13:24:46 hiro3 [~hiro@softbank221093184001.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:57 JuanDaugherty: Language is funny, some people consider "damn" to be offensive; some will wet their pants if you do not phrase your words ... even if you didn't use any expletive. Go figure, fuck 'em all. ;-) 13:25:18 \o 13:25:25 Back to coding. 13:25:34 me too 13:25:41 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:26:37 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:28:09 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:28:27 -!- pbgc [~pbgc@2.81.175.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:28:37 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:29:55 I've read Kent Pitman criticising many people's narrow view of objects, a narrow view I think I currently have. Can anyone recommend me some literature to better understand what the criticism is? I hope someone understand what it is I'm referring to, even if I don't! 13:30:41 (criticise might be a bit strong, I hope no one takes offence to that) 13:30:56 "point out" 13:31:11 pbgc [~pbgc@bl20-175-199.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 13:31:18 lammb: do you think of 1 as an object? 13:31:36 Xach, yes and no, I think both interpretations are valid. 13:31:49 (is and is not an object, that is) 13:32:11 why isn't it? 13:32:25 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:32:30 I don't see what ancillary data is required, other than the name. 13:32:41 In order to define the concept "one" 13:32:56 ancillary data? 13:33:25 I think of objects as data + methods, a number is atomic to my current perspective. 13:33:47 how about print-object or describe-object methods for integers? 13:34:07 -!- sepeth [~user@78.186.252.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:34:11 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@200-171-134-92.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:34:27 or any other method defined on integer, or even (eql 1), for that matter. 13:34:29 Hm, I don't think "one" needs to know how to print "itself", that's for an outside observer. 13:34:47 objects in CL don't do anything to 'themselves' 13:35:05 lammb: that can be said about any object 13:35:06 lammb: Is Kents argument that Objects are just data-structures and methods are something completely separate that use Object type for dispatch? 13:35:07 http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/03/execution-in-kingdom-of-nouns.html is kind of about that idea 13:35:08 lammb: that is because you believe that integers are somehow "fundamental", which is a viewpoint that might not be shared by anyone. 13:35:10 dispatch is done through generic functions, which *are* outside observers. 13:35:13 chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has joined #lisp 13:35:27 erm, by "everyone", not "anyone", sorry 13:35:57 ltbarcly1: using lisp macros you can only generate lisp code. So if your compiler translates your language to lisp (and then it could call COMPILE or COMPILE-FILE to generate binary), you can use lisp macros to do that. But if you want to generate something else, then it's better not to use lisp macros to generate your code, just write a compile-form function. 13:36:38 ams: what I find funny is how in US they like to star out swear words and add beeps to mask them etc. as if the form was the ugly part and not the function :) yet "beep-rich" dialog is not discouraged in itself so it's like saying we don't like guns but going postal is ok if you paint your bullets pink ;) 13:36:40 ltbarcly1: a-list and hash-table are quite useful indeed to implement environments. The primitive lisp EVAL functions just use an a-list. 13:37:58 ludston, I was reading this: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/Name.html -- and most probably have completely misinterpreted what Kent mean't, I just felt he was referring to some interpretation of objects I have not yet seen. 13:38:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:39:13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd0FY1YGbnI&feature=relmfu 13:39:51 enough. sorry to have added to it. 13:40:14 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:40:38 Xach: You can't have your joke and eat it. 13:40:43 lammb: in cond when you don't put expressions in the clauses, it returns the test. The test can be any expression you want. 13:41:06 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:15 lammb: so you can write (cond ((let ((x (compute-x))) (when x (transform x)))) ) ; as long as (transform x) returns non NIL. 13:41:38 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:11 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:42:18 Yep 13:42:30 In your case: (cond ((let ((k3 (kind 3 ranks)) (k2 (kind 2 ranks))) (when (and k2 k3) (values +full-house+ k2 k3)))) ) 13:42:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:42:37 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-127.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:42:49 Oh wait, this is from earlier. Heh, context switch. 13:43:02 Yes, just awoke. 13:44:25 -!- bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:32 Thanks pjb! It looks a bit dense though, I suppose I should use a macro to expand to that. 13:44:34 lammb: For partial functions, it would depend on the input. Notably, if it's invalid because of its type/class or because of its value. 13:44:45 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 13:45:06 bobbysmith007 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:07 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:45:12 lammb: You can use check-type to check the type of the parameter (and signal an error if bad type), and if the parameter is out of range, you can extend the function returning a default value. 13:45:31 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 13:45:39 (defun pos-sqrt (x) (check-type x real) (if (minusp x) 0 (sqrt x))) 13:45:44 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:13 If NIL is a valid and absobing argument to your functions, you can usefully return it. 13:46:17 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:09 (defun pos-sqrt (x) (cond ((not (realp x)) nil) ((minusp x) nil) (t (sqrt x)))) 13:47:52 (pos-sqrt (pos-sqrt 16)) (pos-sqrt (pos-sqrt "minus absolute zero")) 13:47:59 chawco [~craig@vpn.polarmobile.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:42 JuanDaugherty: have a look at http://cliki.net/IRC ; notice I didn't create those channels. 13:50:17 pjb, thanks very much! Need to lie down in a dark room now. 13:51:10 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:51:52 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:24 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:37 (let ((defun (defun |defun| (defun foo) defun))) (funcall defun defun defun)) 13:54:44 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:56:36 thx 13:56:39 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:56:42 lammb: objects have identity, attributes (and usually methods). 13:56:57 sepeth [~user@78.186.252.240] has joined #lisp 13:58:08 lammb: 1 has identity: (eql 1 1) (identity 1); attributes: (integer-length 1); and methods: (+ 1 42) (Which is a different method than (+ 1.0 42)). 13:58:46 Objects may or may not be mutable, that's orthogonal. 13:59:21 Demosthenes [~demo@dhcp107-16-139-242.hil-snccaes.sjc.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:00:27 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-173-127.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:00:54 pjb, that's what I'd have previous said as "objects have a hashCode(), fields, and method". This doesn't seem any different to what I'm used to 14:03:25 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:03:53 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.175.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:03:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:05:08 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 14:06:00 I tend not to consider one *having* any attributes, but this is getting a bit slippery now. 1 has an identity sure, that's tautologous. There's no "slots" in 1 or plist's in one, so I don't follow how this is true in LIsp, other than just Lispers just treating it so. 14:07:06 INTEGER-LENGTH seems more like an object, with a pile of state telling it about 1, 13, 89384, etc. 14:07:24 Or a method that know about numbers, whatever 14:07:48 lammb: how do you know there's no slots in 1? 14:08:00 lammb: how do you think integer-length is implemented on eg. bignums? 14:08:33 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:09:07 (defclass integer () ((length :reader integer-length) (value :accessor %value))) 14:09:49 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:10:19 + :initargs, (defvar |1| (make-instance 'integer :length 1 :value (lambda (f) f))) 14:11:10 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 14:11:11 p_nathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 14:11:16 -!- bitonic [~user@027cae25.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:11:28 Ah, I can see now what everyone was was meant before. Thanks! 14:12:01 That does make sense :) 14:13:05 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:16:54 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:17:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:17:22 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.175.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 14:17:33 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:11 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:25 -!- em_ [~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: As a wild ass in the desert go I forth to my work] 14:18:43 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:19:27 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:20:26 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@233-56-11.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:20:27 -!- Mazingaro [~Tetsuja@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] 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joined #lisp 16:12:11 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:13:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:14:42 urandom__ [~user@p54B0E8B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:02 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:16:37 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:20:29 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:20:35 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:20:59 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 16:21:23 So we'd want a slime for Acme. "slima"? 16:22:46 -!- srcerer_ is now known as srcerer 16:22:53 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:24:21 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:33 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:26:03 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.200.188] has joined #lisp 16:27:24 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:27:39 deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:28:24 Demosthenes [~demo@mc00536d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:57 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 16:32:11 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:33:12 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:24 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 16:33:24 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 16:33:24 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 16:35:57 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:37:17 steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:37:52 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@mc00536d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:38:39 tritchey [~tritchey@50-77-184-57-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:51 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:38:52 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:41:44 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:42:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.47.192] has joined #lisp 16:42:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.47.192] has quit [Changing host] 16:42:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:42:31 -!- rjmt_ [~uid1@46-65-28-90.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:42:32 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:43:53 Demosthenes [~demo@mc00536d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:09 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-016-006.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 16:44:15 rjmt_ [~uid1@46-65-28-90.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:44:46 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:45:11 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:45:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:49:04 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 16:49:19 -!- chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9-rc1] 16:50:19 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:50:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:52:06 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 16:55:05 -!- rjmt_ [~uid1@46-65-28-90.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:13 MikeSeth [~me@unaffiliated/mikeseth] has joined #lisp 16:55:26 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:56:33 If I have CLOS object A that has a slot that contains object B which in turn has a slot that contains object C.. is there a facility that automatically defines accessor methods for innermost objects? Is there an idiom for this? 16:56:53 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 16:56:56 no 16:57:03 ...accessor methos for fields of innermost objects given the outmost objects... 16:57:14 stassats: so boilerplate code/macros? 16:57:23 why would there be a need? 16:57:24 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:47 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:51 (x (y (z a))) doesn't look like boilerplate 16:57:56 MikeSeth: not necessarily. i find that the desire to have chains like that is reduced by starting from a sensible protocol first and then designing objects around that. 16:58:26 what would it look like instead? (x-y-z a)? i see no difference, only more confusion 16:58:43 stassats: (x a) 16:58:59 Xach: could you give me a hypothetical example? 16:58:59 even more confusion 16:59:02 and (x a) == (x (y (z a)))? 16:59:09 -!- superflit [~superflit@75-166-64-40.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:13 er, well, they both couldn't be x 16:59:16 well, x being a generic fundction 16:59:19 function * 16:59:22 superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.11] has joined #lisp 16:59:33 rjmt_ [~uid1@46-65-28-90.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:00:01 e.g for composed instance foo (defmethod x (object (eql foo))) 17:00:11 or is it a stupid idea to begin with? 17:00:53 if you're going to type it over and over again, I guess something would be worthwhile 17:01:45 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:01:46 MikeSeth: hmm, like having something like responsible-entity, implemented as (delegated-responsible-entity object), where delegated-responsible-entity's default method just returns the object, but if an object isn't responsible for itself, having :reader boss :reader delegated-responsible-entity in the slot options... 17:01:50 they could both be x if A and C are of a different class 17:02:14 madnificent, :) fair enough 17:02:27 they could all be x :) 17:02:30 madnificent: or i methods specialize on instances 17:02:33 if* 17:02:36 (defmethod x ((instance a)) (x (y (z a)))) and possibly add a setf 17:02:46 Xach: hmmmm... 17:02:55 where responsible-entity, delegated-responsbile-entity and related functions are part of a protocol and the classes automatically fill in the functions with :reader/:accessor options. 17:02:57 MikeSeth: yes, well, if the result of calling #'x can be two different results, i'd say you have an issue. 17:02:58 madnificent: and then I could have a macro that adds those 17:03:01 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:03:17 damn I love this 17:03:41 yes, you can quickly turn your code into an incomprehensible mess by using macros 17:03:49 MikeSeth: you can programatically decide whether you should return the value of the slot x, or the value of (x (y (z a))), right? what do you base your decision on? 17:03:55 chawco [~craig@vpn.polarmobile.com] has joined #lisp 17:04:48 -!- justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:05:11 stassats: well, what I am doiing is basically this: I have a tiny cpu emulator, cpu classes are composed from registers, memory, IO and instruction sets, and Xach is very right - what I want is a protocol between instruction implementations and CPU instance-specific registers that wouldn't require writing a bunch of boilerplate accessors each time I combine a new CPU 17:05:30 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:06:24 madnificent: the instance at hand, I basically have (defmethod instruction (cpu (opcode (eql #x1f))) ...) 17:06:28 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:22 by the way I am not entirely sure if eql specialization is considered a very good idea, if anyone has opinions, I'd like to hear them 17:07:28 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:07:45 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-036-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:08:38 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-78-211.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:09:31 now I also begin suspecting that eql approach probably wouldn't work very well beyond fixed size instructions, hmmm 17:10:37 *madnificent* would first define an s-experssion DSL in which he'd like to define the instructions and then figure out what he'd need to write to build that DSL (possibly making minor changes to the DSL) 17:11:35 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:14:47 yep 17:15:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:17:46 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.175.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:18:00 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.175.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 17:18:12 chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has joined #lisp 17:18:30 -!- urandom__ [~user@p54B0E8B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:20:49 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:21:03 sabalaba [~Adium@107.204.238.82] has joined #lisp 17:22:39 ccorn [~ccorn@217.149.135.124] has joined #lisp 17:22:45 deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:23:13 X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f12:822::2] has joined #lisp 17:25:10 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:25:56 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-016-006.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:26:21 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@217.149.135.124] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:36 ccorn [~ccorn@217.149.135.124] has joined #lisp 17:27:14 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-103-71.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:28:45 bitonic [~user@027cae25.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 17:29:18 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-016-006.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 17:31:12 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 17:32:10 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:34:16 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:34:50 ^pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:35:40 -!- NimeshNeema_ [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xfybcexegqgzfkts] has quit [] 17:37:01 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:37:31 NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vmfzffsyegxrgxjr] has joined #lisp 17:39:21 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:23 I have a function STRAIGHT that assumes it's input list of type LIST REAL is reverse-sorted. Should STRAIGHT reverse-sort its input, or assume the user has read STRAIGHT's documentation and supplies it correct input? 17:40:28 *its 17:41:02 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 17:41:28 is the user expected to have a reverse-sorted list already laying around? 17:42:00 justicefries [~justicefr@64-58-7-174.sta.mho.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:11 Is "the user" you? 17:42:59 stassats, it's actually a bit weird, because poker hands are not usually reverse-sorted, so not expected to have one laying around, no. 17:43:10 you can have both STRAIGHT, which sorts, and THGIARTS, which doesn't 17:43:17 Haha 17:43:29 no, not that 17:43:44 TTSRIHGA 17:43:47 there, sorter 17:43:48 d 17:44:01 Xach, most probably I will be the only ever user, yes, but I am trying to apply good practices anyway 17:44:08 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:44:32 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:44:54 coding `(straight (sort ...))' repeatedly would be aggravating IMHO 17:44:56 lammb: if your game logic requires your hands to be reverse sorted, then i'd just make that an invariant and not bother with sorting the list. 17:45:21 Daisy [Daisy@109.58.225.210.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 17:46:20 H4ns, I agree. Thanks everyone. 17:46:29 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:46:43 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-yfeildihmadbgqgs] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:48:56 stassats: TTSRIHGA looks like a good candidate for a #lisp acronym. 17:49:10 benny [~user@i577A1635.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:49:10 minion: what does TTSRIHGA stand for? 17:49:10 Tarie Toothcup Silktail Ripener Intercarrier Hearsay Gripless Archcheater 17:49:23 close enough 17:49:51 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:50:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:52:51 -!- chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9-rc1] 17:55:07 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-204-244-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:55:11 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:55:27 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 17:55:41 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:55:51 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:49 Do Lisp compilers do anything clever with keyword arguments, or does it always boil down to a linear search thru the supplied arguments? IF so, does that have any weight when you choose to use a keyword argument? 17:59:27 yes, keyword arguments are usually slower, unless you inline things 17:59:34 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@107.204.238.82] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:59:45 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:59:54 -!- chawco [~craig@vpn.polarmobile.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:05 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:00:26 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@50-77-184-57-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 18:00:41 if it's actually a problem, you could have an underlying function with just required args, and a keyword function interface to call it 18:00:46 lammb: it has search through all the arguments. 18:01:01 Kvaks [~quassel@127.184.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:01:38 Thanks! 18:01:42 in theory, there could be some tricks employed, but i'm not aware that any implementation do them 18:02:20 I was just trying to think what you theoretically could do, but I couldn't think of anything clever. 18:03:03 lammb: inlining a keyword parser 18:03:09 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@127.184.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:56 well, meaning it'll already be parsed at ct 18:04:05 stassats, how would that not have to still to a linear search... oh 18:04:46 stassats: not a lot of trickery are possible given the semantics. 18:05:15 pkhuong: what particular semantics do you have in mind? 18:05:18 redefinition? 18:07:00 duane rettig wrote about some kind of allegro "trickery", though maybe he was just describing the common-sense way to do it. 18:07:03 *Xach* digs 18:07:08 ccorn_ [~ccorn@217.149.135.124] has joined #lisp 18:08:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:09:26 stassats: the fact that we have to scan until the last element, plus :allow-other-keys. 18:10:21 pkhuong: i'm just saying about ct-known cases 18:10:44 and :allow-other-keys is rare 18:10:51 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@217.149.135.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:10:54 -!- sepeth [~user@78.186.252.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:10:55 tritchey [~tritchey@50-77-184-57-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:50 stassats: still have to add extra code to make sure we don't directly go to an error state. 18:12:00 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:12:11 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:12:26 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:15:34 -!- pbgc [~pbgc@bl20-175-199.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 18:16:55 -!- ^pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:17:05 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:17:06 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:17:35 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Loqui] 18:19:40 -!- setmeaway [stemearay@119.201.52.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:21:40 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:23:07 grande [~BUENAs@200-112-69-233.baf.movistar.cl] has joined #lisp 18:24:20 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.196.235] has joined #lisp 18:26:14 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:26:46 -!- ccorn_ [~ccorn@217.149.135.124] has quit [Quit: ccorn_] 18:26:54 -!- BeWhy [~chatzilla@c-76-124-138-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:29:36 lammb: re good practices, pre-conditions and post-conditions are a contract. The callee not have to test for pre-conditions, and the caller should not have to test for the post-condition, because the contract says that if the pre-conditions is true, when the caller calls the callee, then the post-condition will be true when the callee returns to the caller. 18:30:28 lammb: that said, when you have interfaces to external clients who don't read the little letters of the contracts, it's good to validate input data (and pre-conditions), to avoid self destruction. 18:30:57 But internal interfaces may not do that. Or do that only during development and not once debugged. 18:31:38 (defmacro check-invariant (&body invariant) #+development `(assert (progn ,@invariant)) #-development 'nil) 18:32:05 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:32:40 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 18:32:47 ccorn [~ccorn@217.149.135.124] has joined #lisp 18:32:54 http://spawnfest.com/ I wonder if something like this would be possible in lisp land. :) 18:32:55 pjb, the contract analogy is very helpful to me. Thanks for the elaboration once again! 18:33:08 could be lots of fun 18:34:15 sykopomp: looks like dto's game contents 18:34:16 sykopomp: propose that, for a four hour lispfest at the next ELC. 18:34:23 s/contents/contests/ 18:34:43 sykopomp: only 48 hours? how much of that time will be spent arguing whether to use keyword parameters or generic functions/vs ordinary functions? 18:34:52 madnificent: it would be cool if there were actual prizes with respected lispers as judges. 18:35:18 stassats: probably very little, since I would very likely fly solo. 18:35:19 foeniks [~fevon@ds80-237-216-36.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has joined #lisp 18:35:49 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:36:37 sykopomp: i can provide neither of that ;) 18:36:38 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:36:55 -!- bitonic [~user@027cae25.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:37:13 what would be the prizes? a "save lisp and die" t-shirt, an annual #lisp gold membership? 18:37:26 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@217.149.135.124] has quit [Client Quit] 18:37:29 s/annual/for a year/ 18:37:44 We could have a #lisp-massage channel, sans happy-endings. 18:38:36 stassats: what does that mean: op rights? or perhaps: if you loose, you won't get a voice in the channel anymore ;) 18:38:58 stassats: SLAD shirt would be pretty cool! Mine's a little worn out by now. 18:39:33 spd [user@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fedf:af4b] has joined #lisp 18:39:34 free hosting for a lisp project at tech.coop 18:39:54 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 18:40:11 so, I have a bunch of symbols that look like somepackage:|foo|, and I need to instead have 'foo 18:40:20 ltbarcly1: why? 18:40:34 if only all those t-shirts came in different colors than just black and white 18:40:36 How did you get those downcase-named symbols in the first place? 18:41:05 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:41:23 I'm writing a compiler, the parser is generating symbols somepackage:|foo|, but I want the symbol in the final code to be 'foo, so code like "set x = 1" will compile to "(setf x 1)" instead of "(setf somepackage:|x| 1)" 18:41:40 lammb: without the happy ending you can do that in #lispcafe 18:41:42 so have the parser generate upcased symbols? 18:42:13 upcase symbols? I guess I don't understand where the |'s are coming from 18:42:16 first of all 18:42:18 ltbarcly1: (intern (string-upcase "x")) instead of (intern "x") 18:42:23 ltbarcly1: you need to upcase them. 18:42:29 OH 18:42:34 ltbarcly1: BUT, I see no point in upcasing, unless your language is case insensitive. 18:42:40 *stassats* hears the hoards of modern-mode users crying 18:42:42 wth is up with the pipes 18:42:44 ltbarcly1: the Lisp reader upcases symbols by default. They're case sensitive. 18:42:47 is that just a printer thing? 18:42:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:42:58 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:43:00 sykopomp: they're not obtained thru the lisp reader. 18:43:04 clhs | 18:43:05 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for |. 18:43:07 sykopomp: but thru a DSL parser. 18:43:08 -!- spd [user@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fedf:af4b] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:43:12 specbot: bad bot, no cookie 18:43:15 clhs #\| 18:43:15 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for #\|. 18:43:20 ltbarcly1: it's syntax for printing non-standardish symbols. 18:43:21 it's hard to find via searching, I couldn't find anything for | on google either 18:43:30 ok, that makes more sense 18:43:31 ltbarcly1: '|foo bar baz| is a single symbol 18:43:32 rather, for reading 18:43:35 ltbarcly1: usually part of any intro to CL. 18:43:43 I don't know what term is better for 'non-standardish' 18:43:47 ltbarcly1: you can search it on http://l1sp.org/ http://l1sp.org/search?q=| 18:44:01 stassats: it's their readable syntax, which is also their printed syntax 18:44:12 ok, I don't have a problem then 18:44:34 I thought the | was something like a gensym where it was putting it around the symbol for some odd reason 18:44:52 Is there guidance in the spec on whether to use || vs \ for printing symbols? 18:44:56 sykopomp: well, you don't have to print it readably 18:44:57 *Xach* checks 18:44:57 ltbarcly1: (gensym "foo") will get you the pipes, too :) 18:45:08 princ will not print any | 18:45:43 ok, all of this makes so much more sense now, thanks! 18:45:52 -!- `fogus|away is now known as `fogus 18:46:30 ltbarcly1: try: (loop :for *print-case* :in '(:upcase :downcase :capitalize) :do (print *print-case*) (loop :for sym :in '(|HELLO| |hello| |Hello|) :do (print sym))) 18:47:45 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-209-176.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:53 is there an :invert, too? 18:48:03 Not for print. 18:48:31 (readtable-case *readtable*) can be :upcase, :downcase, :preserve, or :invert. 18:48:52 no :pervert, too bad 18:49:07 :preserve is the best. 18:49:09 although, :invert has a similar meaning 18:49:36 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:54:09 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:54:25 -!- PuercoPop712 [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:54:28 kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 18:55:26 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:55:31 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@50-77-184-57-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 18:56:53 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:21 bitonic [~user@027cae25.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:40 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:00:23 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:00:47 deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:02:22 eni [~eni@82.230.88.217] has joined #lisp 19:02:25 is there a set-equal? 19:02:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:03:12 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 19:03:44 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:04:56 sepeth [~user@77.79.126.225] has joined #lisp 19:05:17 reactormonk: (complement #'set-difference) 19:05:32 stassats: sure_ 19:05:33 ? 19:05:45 drewna [~user@bobby.CS.unlv.edu] has joined #lisp 19:05:48 yes? 19:06:01 stassats: isn't it that you need to call set-difference twice to find out whether two sets are equal? 19:06:26 stassats: it is like that. 19:06:28 stassats: clisp gives me *** - EVAL: (COMPLEMENT #'SET-DIFFERENCE) is not a function name; try using a symbol instead 19:07:07 H4ns: right, but it was more of a hint, not a ready made solution, as evidenced by the above 19:07:14 stassats: hah 19:07:19 reactormonk: (funcall (complement #'set-difference) ...) 19:07:45 sykopomp: oh, right :-) 19:08:04 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:08:11 which is really (not (set-difference ...)) 19:09:26 reactormonk: if your sets are large, you need a better representation for your sets. maybe fset. 19:09:43 H4ns: nah, just some small tests 19:09:43 reactormonk: or just hash tables 19:09:54 reactormonk: ok - well, then nb (set-difference '(1 2) '(1 2 3)) 19:10:50 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:11:00 H4ns: http://pastie.org/private/k3xhy9nuhbyzbak4mb19g 19:11:45 reactormonk: looks proper 19:11:58 except that "(not (set-difference ...))" 19:12:07 -!- grande [~BUENAs@200-112-69-233.baf.movistar.cl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:12:37 sorry for being a bit confusing earlier, but learning about COMPLEMENT might be useful 19:12:37 -!- justicefries [~justicefr@64-58-7-174.sta.mho.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:12:38 http://pastie.org/private/xyu4oml5vq5tjpxkqgblwq 19:13:08 now, make it accept all the arguments set-difference accepts 19:13:22 &rest, basically? 19:13:32 just spell them out 19:14:33 is there a direct way to transfer &key key (test #'eql testp) (test-not nil notp) ? 19:14:54 because if I just pass test, testp will always be true in set-difference 19:14:55 &rest will, but it'll not make a very good arglist for slime and all 19:15:00 -!- jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:15:01 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:16:07 is there a nice pattern for that? 19:16:26 reactormonk: (... &rest args &key key test test-not) (apply #'x ... args) 19:16:47 and (declare (ignore key test test-not)) 19:16:56 where does the declare go? 19:17:07 at the beginning of the body 19:17:16 clhs defun 19:17:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defun.htm 19:17:51 -!- drewna [~user@bobby.CS.unlv.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:18:02 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@mc00536d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:18:56 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:19:18 http://pastie.org/private/ile2yzl6pxvur1jsv2tqa 19:20:33 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:22:08 fold [~fold@66-169-204-12.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:24:58 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:25:13 I prefer to use (and (subsetp a b) (subsetp b a)); but depending the implementations, one or the other solution may or may not be more efficient. 19:25:39 drewna [~user@nv-74-4-136-73.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:37 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:30:48 there is nth for getting the nth element, but is there also a function for getting the list without the nth element? 19:31:07 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:31:21 reactormonk: everything but the nth? 19:31:26 (remove-if (constantly t) list :start n :count 1) 19:31:28 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-huavadrgpaoyzela] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:31:52 Xach: exactly 19:32:38 stassats: nice ^^ 19:34:08 pop/nth-cdr, if you swing that way. 19:34:40 I'm implementing permutation, my idea would be a) loop over every element, append that element + recursive call with rest of list 19:35:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35:48 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:35:52 is there a nicer way I haven't see yet? 19:36:14 reactormonk: there's a classic iterative way to generate all the permutations in lexicographic order. 19:37:48 pkhuong: got it around? 19:37:52 if you don't care about the order, a powerloop to cover all the possibilities in a fisher-yates loop would also work. 19:38:05 reactormonk: it's in Knuth ;) 19:38:08 whut? 19:38:30 i would just call alexandria:map-permutations and be done with it 19:42:24 ^pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:42:55 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-128-193.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:43:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:45:50 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc04-o.oracle.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:47:11 how do I pass x y args to #'subsetp ? (apply #'subsetp x y args) doesn't seem to be correct - add a concat? 19:48:29 tritchey [~tritchey@50-77-184-57-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:06 Amadiro [~Amadiro@233-56-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 19:49:48 clintm [~cmoore@131.191.81.250] has joined #lisp 19:50:01 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:50:45 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@50-77-184-57-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:51:35 justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:44 -!- justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:02 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-016-006.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:53:07 no, it's the correct way 19:53:10 -!- Daisy [Daisy@109.58.225.210.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:53:11 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:54:34 Daisy [~Daisy@94.191.165.112.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 19:56:12 grande [~BUENAs@200-112-69-233.baf.movistar.cl] has joined #lisp 19:58:12 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:58:23 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 19:59:41 sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-21-65.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:45 reactormonk: or do you think there's a different way for each function? 20:00:29 -!- ^pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 20:01:40 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 20:02:40 duko [~duko@static-71-177-221-121.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:00 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:04:49 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-204-244-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:06:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:06:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:06:48 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 20:07:13 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:10:36 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-154.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 20:15:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:16:47 Hi. I'm trying to learn macros, but I'm getting stuck. I've written the following code: https://gist.github.com/3751783. The helper macro works for the sample call. The problem comes when I want the 2nd arg to be a form that will *evaluate* to a list (instead of being just a list form). How does one go about evaluating one macro argument? My attempt is the last macro definition. 20:18:15 drewna: don't quote the list (i.e. ,(car source) instead of ',(car source)) 20:18:16 ? 20:19:46 I think I need to though. Just tried I know that one of the problems 20:20:14 sorry typo. just tried (dolist (x (1 2 3 4)) (print x)) in repl and it didn't work. 20:20:28 Well, yes. (1 2 3 4) isn't a valid function call. 20:20:36 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:20:49 '(1 2 3 4) ? 20:22:17 You can't (or shouldn't) have it so that it works both on literal lists and things intended to be evaluated. Say you have (list car cdr) as the thing to permute over, how is it going to know that you want the result of the call or '(list car cdr) without you making that explicit? 20:22:58 *Xach* has deja vu 20:23:24 eh? 20:23:43 the first one is a helper macro called with-permutations-rec which takes form. I want an interface called with-permutation that will take function calls. 20:24:04 sorry. i'm prob making this harder than it needs to be. 20:24:14 francogrex [~user@109.130.43.199] has joined #lisp 20:24:18 Write them the other way around. With-permutation is called by with-permutations-rec, which does the quoting. 20:24:44 ah. i'll try that. thank you. 20:25:16 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:25:35 -!- clintm [~cmoore@131.191.81.250] has quit [Quit: clintm] 20:26:25 -!- galdor_ is now known as galdor 20:27:06 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@233-56-11.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:28:04 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-246.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 20:28:15 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:29:07 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-154.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:29:30 -!- sepeth [~user@77.79.126.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:29:39 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 20:30:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:30:25 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-154.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 20:34:09 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-21-65.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:35:33 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.196.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:36:35 -!- drewna [~user@nv-74-4-136-73.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:37:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:38:04 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:38:41 Xach: when writing animations with skippy, is there only a global color table or can each image have its own? if you can answer that out of your head. 20:38:48 Major sqwee moment discovering LOGICAL-PATHNAME-TRANSLATION combined with SLIME-EDIT-DEFINITION. Is it well known to hook up your development environment to your implementation's source code? Or would this make a good Lisp tip? 20:39:16 don't know, i can't live without it 20:39:38 It's so nice :-) I've never had this sort of feature before. 20:39:42 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.111] has joined #lisp 20:39:59 Demosthenes [~demo@mc00536d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:18 careful, or you'll turn into a your-implementation-of-choice developer 20:41:05 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:05 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:19 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:32 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:44 >.> There are indeed many scary things just a chord away now. 20:41:45 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:41:50 speaking of slime... how hard is it to customize arglist information? I'd kind of like some functions compiled on settings that remove arglist information to have arglist information 20:42:00 Bike: pretty easy 20:42:08 as in, defining new methods 20:42:28 to, say, arglist-dispatch 20:42:35 Cool. How could I learn to do it? Look through slime-autodoc? 20:42:54 see in contrib/swank-arglists.lisp 20:43:38 Thanks. 20:43:50 justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:30 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:45:17 deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:46:17 Xach: got it, don't worry. 20:46:54 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-246.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 20:47:08 -!- bitonic [~user@027cae25.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:11 superflit_ [~superflit@65-128-59-236.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:54 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-246.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 20:49:24 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:49:25 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 20:50:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:51:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:52:51 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:53:16 PuercoPop712 [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 20:54:59 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:55:42 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-246.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 20:55:47 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:58:49 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:00:29 -!- justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:00:53 -!- eni [~eni@82.230.88.217] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:01:25 alama [~textual@stgt-5f7170db.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:59 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:02:44 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-246.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:03:35 justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:42 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@94.191.165.112.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:04:11 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:04:14 Daisy [Daisy@109.58.193.40.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 21:04:34 -!- justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:04:59 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:08:07 justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:16 pjb: I hope not 21:09:35 but it gives me http://sprunge.us/NFTb 21:09:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:10:16 reactormonk: your parens seem to have multiplied badly 21:11:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:11:12 Xach: skippy rocks, thanks for that! 21:11:13 agreed 21:11:18 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:11:29 is there a hotkey in lisp-mode to remove one level of parens? 21:11:57 -!- _d3f [~d3f@79.172.193.130] has quit [Quit: _d3f] 21:12:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:12:54 how do I map-collect p.ex. map-permutations? 21:13:12 what? 21:13:42 I was going to suggest paredit mode and M-down, but now I don't know. 21:13:53 Gregor Kiczales is doing a coursera course, it seems. 21:13:56 on program design! 21:14:33 https://www.coursera.org/course/programdesign 21:14:58 DrPete [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has joined #lisp 21:16:18 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:18:21 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:19:06 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-63-206.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:19:10 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.111] has joined #lisp 21:19:20 pkhuong: paredit works fine 21:20:00 pkhuong: M-down delets a bit too much 21:20:17 Bike: I want to use map-permutations to get a list of all permutations of another list 21:21:19 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:21:33 I want to translate lisp code to pseudocode 21:21:43 like, (map function (permutations list))? 21:21:44 francogrex: nothing easier. 21:22:05 francogrex: have a look at cl-stepper. Edit the functions that output the trace messages. 21:22:23 francogrex: or, you could just realize there's no spoon. 21:22:30 I mean, lisp code is already pseudocode!!! 21:22:34 Bike: map-permutations is from alexandria. I'd like to collect all the permutations 21:23:05 pass it #'identity? if there isn't a function to do that already. 21:23:24 oh, no, it doesn't return. 21:23:52 pass it (function collect). 21:23:56 pjb: I know. But I was triggered by this project: http://www.rapidqualitysystems.com/Products/CodeRocketDesigner 21:24:14 (let ((result '())) (flet ((collect (item) (push item result))) (map-permutation (function collect) sequence) result)) 21:24:42 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-154.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:25:40 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:26:15 pjb:uh-oh 21:27:01 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:47 pjb: is it possible to write that as fun/macro such that you can write (collect (map-permutation from-here sequence)) ? 21:28:39 spd [user@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fedf:af4b] has joined #lisp 21:29:51 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-154.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:29:56 -!- spd [user@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fedf:af4b] has left #lisp 21:30:50 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.43.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:33:05 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:33:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:34:19 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.64.252] has joined #lisp 21:36:40 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75f44d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:53 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:36:55 why does the last test fail? http://pastie.org/private/ij5nnxht1hfamm0btussgg 21:37:21 ehh, it's actually the second-to-last 21:37:33 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.200.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:38:58 reactormonk: :test #'equal 21:39:01 dmx [~dmx@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:20 sabalaba [~Adium@75-25-139-61.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:45 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:40:59 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:14 Bike: thanks \o/ 21:41:18 Pass: 4 (100%) 21:41:43 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@75-25-139-61.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:42:15 reactormonk: the default test is eql, and (eql '(:a :b) '(:a :b)) doesn't have to be true (I think it /can/ be, with constant coalescing, but that's not important here) 21:43:13 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:43:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:44:30 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-233-88.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:44:54 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:32 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:41 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-245-175.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:46:49 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:46:54 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:47:23 -!- TDT [~user@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:43 -!- foeniks [~fevon@ds80-237-216-36.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:48:38 how do I write a macro that achieves http://sprunge.us/LWaM ? 21:49:15 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:52:15 sabalaba [~Adium@75-25-139-61.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:21 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:52:26 is it possible to tell wherever a form is a quoted form or not? 21:52:34 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@75-25-139-61.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:53:06 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-036-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:53:29 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:54:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:54:15 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 21:55:14 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:55:39 sabalaba [~Adium@75-25-139-61.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:26 reactormonk: sure. Anything can be done with macros. 21:56:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:57:26 -!- jji [~jji@c220-239-125-8.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:57:27 even coffee? 21:57:42 reactormonk: (defmacro collect (&body body) (let ((vres (gensym))) `(let ((,vres '())) (flet ((,vres (x) (push x ,vres))) (symbol-macrolet ((from-here (function ,vres))) ,@body)) ,vres))) 21:57:50 reactormonk: with htcpcp yes. 21:58:11 reactormonk: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/CoffeeMode 21:58:13 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@75-25-139-61.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:55 Mazingaro [~Tetsuja@host110-237-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:00:41 sabalaba [~Adium@75-25-139-61.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:43 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@75-25-139-61.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:03 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.187] has joined #lisp 22:02:40 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:03:14 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:38 sabalaba [~Adium@75-25-139-61.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:07 -!- alama [~textual@stgt-5f7170db.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:04:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:04:44 is there actually a coffee brewer that supports HTCPCP? 22:05:13 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:05:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:05:37 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:06:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:39 reactormonk: you asked that question because you didn't want to search anything, right? 22:13:01 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:15:01 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:15:05 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 22:16:37 sabalaba1 [~Adium@75-25-139-61.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:48 asciilifeform [~asciilife@pool-71-191-43-115.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:07 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@75-25-139-61.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:19:00 -!- asciilifeform [~asciilife@pool-71-191-43-115.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:19:17 asciilifeform [~asciilife@pool-71-191-43-115.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:13 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 22:21:54 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.175.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:21:59 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:22:29 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.175.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 22:22:53 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:33 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 22:25:35 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-154.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:27:22 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-007-079.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:27:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:30:15 -!- grande [~BUENAs@200-112-69-233.baf.movistar.cl] has quit [] 22:31:09 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-154.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 22:33:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:34:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:35:22 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-209-176.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:39:01 -!- justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:39:10 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:31 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:44:31 justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:14 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-103-71.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:45:21 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:48:10 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-246.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:49:06 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-51-144.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:49:19 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:49:21 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:49:33 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:51:26 -!- justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:52:45 justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:58 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:00:43 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:14 pjb: you got a small error in there - flet needs a new name 23:04:24 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 23:04:24 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 23:05:00 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:08:25 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:29 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:34 -!- justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:11:45 CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:13:06 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 23:14:24 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:15:32 caoliver [~chatzilla@24-236-215-112.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:15:39 Xach here? 23:17:51 reactormonk: yes, I didn't test it. 23:18:02 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:18:13 But you can have a variable and a function named the same, so if there's an error, it's not that. 23:19:09 aslan69 [~aslan69@c-75-71-21-183.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:21 pjb: oh, right. nope, there's no error, it was just confusing 23:25:18 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:27:20 -!- Daisy [Daisy@109.58.193.40.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:28:51 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.179.147.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 23:30:20 dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-191-169.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:31:49 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-154.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:32:36 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:35:32 TDT [~user@50-81-92-207.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 23:36:14 tensorpudding [~michael@99.23.125.104] has joined #lisp 23:37:55 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:38:57 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.64.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:43:06 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.179.147.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:43:26 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:44:25 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 23:45:37 -!- aslan69 [~aslan69@c-75-71-21-183.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: aslan69] 23:46:35 -!- postfuturist [~sgoss@chirashi.kavi.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:48:08 Amadiro [~Amadiro@233-56-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 23:49:18 -!- caoliver [~chatzilla@24-236-215-112.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:50:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:52:23 -!- xpoqz [~xpozq@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:52:41 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 23:54:08 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.175.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:54:42 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:55:30 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:11b9:a128:97b0:a65e] has joined #lisp 23:56:06 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:56:39 steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp