00:05:36 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 00:05:38 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 00:10:20 Xach: is it ok to update quick lisp even with the updated projects "issue"? 00:14:24 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 00:15:32 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 00:16:13 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:17:27 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.152.202.91] has joined #lisp 00:20:05 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:23:38 dir 00:30:26 superflit_ [~superflit@63-227-46-151.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:02 -!- superflit [~superflit@63-227-44-108.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:32:02 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 00:32:03 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 00:32:33 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 00:32:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:33:04 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:33:53 Orpheus [~user1@pool-108-11-209-27.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:37 hey what do you guys use? im just about to start learning and there is just so variants of lisp 00:34:53 Common Lisp 00:35:31 that is what im looking at now. i was just asking for others opinions 00:35:45 This channel is, by and large, about Common Lisp 00:35:55 is lisp still used in AI project? 00:35:56 ah 00:36:15 Depends on which AI projects, and by whom 00:36:26 any 00:36:30 any current ones 00:36:35 Well, DELPH-IN uses Common Lisp 00:36:44 amongst other projects 00:37:01 brilliant 00:37:11 ITA Software used Common Lisp, but they were bought out last year, and their founder died recently ;_; 00:37:23 (I think they still do) 00:37:29 (I wouldn't know) 00:37:30 that is sad to hear :( 00:37:36 they still use CL, but it's not the only language they use. 00:37:56 I think Scott is still very much alive 00:38:06 Oh, I thought Dan Weinreb founded it 00:38:08 Never mind 00:38:15 oh 00:38:24 who is Dan Weinreb? 00:38:30 Oh no, he just joined it, never mind 00:38:31 Sorry 00:38:37 *shrugs* 00:38:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Weinreb 00:38:48 any tips before i begin learning? 00:38:51 He was important 00:38:53 Oh, yes 00:38:55 he co-founded symbolics, and was a very prolific lisp hacker (: 00:39:17 There are some tools you need to use 00:39:36 As in, otherwise it will be a real pain 00:39:47 such as? :) 00:39:48 EMACS with SLIME 00:40:05 A good compiler 00:40:14 (SBCL and CCL are currently recommended) 00:40:18 i really should use stumpwm more. 00:40:28 oh great i have sbcl 00:40:36 Good 00:41:11 Quicklisp 00:41:23 (It's a bit like RubyGems, if you're familiar with that) 00:42:18 Nevertheless, DW's death argues, I believe, that OG should be made widely available so that the culture is preserved. 00:42:50 caoliver: Indeed. 00:43:08 bankqian [~bankq@ool-44c38f17.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:13 The lisp greats aren't going to live forever, and it would be sad for the culture to go to the grave too. 00:43:28 Well, we're still here 00:43:51 That's why the new generation should have broad access to the stuff. 00:43:59 the death of one no matter what does not destroy a culture 00:44:12 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 00:44:18 Is there a CommonLisp channel? 00:44:28 This is it 00:44:30 This IS the Common Lisp channel 00:44:32 The Lispms were special, but that might get lost I fear. 00:44:34 ok great! 00:44:58 caoliver: asciilifeform is trying to make sure that doesn't happen 00:45:14 He seems to be making a lot more progress than similar projects in the past 00:45:29 Who IRL? 00:45:38 Stanislav Datstkovsky 00:45:42 OK. 00:45:49 just start to learn it with my AI class, would SBCL and SLIME be the best choice on Fedora and Mac(I have two machine) 00:45:56 Yes 00:45:57 I've seen the handle on reddit. 00:46:05 www.loper-os.org 00:46:18 xpoqz [~xpozq@80.203.124.203] has joined #lisp 00:46:40 bankqian: on a Mac, you may want to try CCL too 00:46:47 It would still be useful to have a reasonably working VLM. BTW: I still have my genera 8.3 cd, but there's nothing to run it on. 00:46:51 It has good Cocoa integration 00:47:26 Cosman246: thanks, I'll try it out 00:48:03 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 00:48:04 I did read his EBooks screed. I think I'll use his "scarcity industry" moniker. 00:48:29 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 00:48:32 Nicer label for copyright abuse than anything Stallman has coined. 00:48:49 -!- bankqian [~bankq@ool-44c38f17.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:49:57 bankqian [~bankq@ool-44c38f17.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:33 greg` [~user@ip72-203-129-26.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:48 I also liked the videos that O'Toole put up, though his stuff seems to be geared toward game dev. 00:52:45 -!- paul0 [~paul0@177.41.243.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:08 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:53:53 _veer [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:54 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:53:54 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 00:56:02 caoliver: i didn't see people recommending books yet, so i'll chime in and advise practical common lisp (freely available on line, or in printed format from amazon, IIRC) 00:56:07 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:57:07 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57:36 Orpheus: what I mean is old school lisp culture. The stuff now is very different, and losing a cultural artifact such as open genera to obscurity would be as much a crime against culture as someone buying a Vermeer and setting it afire. At least the Smalltalk folk have many images with direct lineage to smalltalk 80. We now have only the bands of the very early MIT lisp machines. 00:57:46 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 00:57:51 And some recent ones 00:57:55 but for the DEC Alpha 00:58:17 so you'd need either an Alpha, or a way to hack it to run it on non-Alpha machines 00:58:21 (which there is) 00:58:25 Badly. 00:58:32 Yeah :V 00:58:36 -!- dmx [~dmx@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:58:50 It's need much fleshing out, and that's what I think the old guys should support with gusto. 00:59:11 ...while they're alive. 00:59:12 You should also read old MIT AI memos 00:59:26 They will help 00:59:30 Such as the Lambda Papers 00:59:59 Indeed. I read those to help with a possible Scheme on the Cog VM for Squeak. 01:00:16 Now I understand Continuations/CPS much better. 01:01:05 *magnificrab* has an alpha running genera on tru64. 01:01:15 it's off these days but if anyone needs it.. 01:01:41 Where did you pick up the hardware? I had an XL1201, but the memory went flaky on it. 01:02:28 Still, getting SNAP4 finished would be a good thing. BTW: the latest from DKS is that they have few enough keyboards that they are only selling them with monitors. 01:02:55 Buy a keyboard, get an 40kg boat anchor. 01:03:10 caoliver, if you can convince Kalman Reti to release his fixed emulator, that'd be nice 01:03:33 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:04:06 -!- urandom__ [~user@p54B0E4F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:04:34 Indeed. This gets back at the JCMA chat we had. Do you think he'd take kindly to a "preservation of culture" sort of argument? Does anyone have any idea the money amount of the debt of Topping to JCMA? 01:04:37 the founders of ITA are well and alive, thank you. 01:04:58 someone needs to find jcma and talk to him in person. 01:05:07 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 01:05:40 Wasn't he attach to the Institute? 01:05:49 s/attach/attached/ 01:06:13 I'm in Northern Michigan, so I'm useless. 01:07:56 I need to chase down the local Linux group for chow. I will return. (snicker snicker) 01:08:12 -!- caoliver [~chatzilla@24-236-215-112.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120824154833]] 01:09:39 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:10:23 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483B598.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:45 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:12:09 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B5E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:12:55 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has left #lisp 01:13:39 caoliver: my last job was as a sysadmin. i obtained quite a bit of old stuff as we did refreshes 01:20:44 -!- tali713` is now known as tali713 01:25:35 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 01:25:51 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:00 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:32:00 -!- kanru` [~kanru@1-160-78-65.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:32:55 aslan69 [~aslan69@c-75-71-21-183.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:00 -!- aslan69 [~aslan69@c-75-71-21-183.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:33:36 ASau` [~user@95-26-212-152.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 01:33:49 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:37:27 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-212-34.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:39:33 yay! 01:39:41 I can now classify interfaces! 01:40:59 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@n218250049239.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 01:43:54 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@n218250049239.netvigator.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:46:47 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:47:16 ArmyOfBruce [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 01:49:38 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:50:07 ArmyOfBruce [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 01:51:00 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-19-235.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 01:51:24 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-19-235.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:21 -!- bankqian [~bankq@ool-44c38f17.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:01:39 caoliver [~chatzilla@38.sub-70-194-6.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 02:02:22 is emacs really needed if i want to learn lisp? i always prefered vim 02:04:18 i guess i could learn how to get used to emacs but i rather be learning how to program in liso 02:04:47 there's sliv, but slime is probably better 02:07:22 springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has joined #lisp 02:10:59 Do you really need to know anything beyond the slime keybinds and the tutorial? 02:11:38 tutorial ::= emacs tutorial. 02:14:12 anyone tried mongrel2? 02:14:21 i mean sued 02:14:22 huangjs: it looks interesting 02:14:23 used 02:14:47 the project I planned to use it in failed before we got to that point, though 02:15:08 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-3-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:15:09 p_l: i see, does it support websocket or any other long connection? 02:16:06 i wrote my webserver in node, i hate writing it when logic go complex, now i'm doing it in go. but if cl-mongrel2 allows me to do everything in cl... 02:16:14 huangjs: I think it supports some of that (at least long-poll and chunked) 02:16:32 p_l: on the cl side, it's event driven? 02:16:35 -!- caoliver [~chatzilla@38.sub-70-194-6.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0/20120601045813]] 02:16:47 huangjs: hmm... on the CL side, it's however the fuck you want driven 02:17:00 p_l: haha, ok, that sounds good. 02:17:41 huangjs: mongrel2 doesn't care - it just ships you packets of data using fanout/sink configuration of 0MQ using a simple protocol 02:19:07 p_l: i see. then lots of long connections can be a problem. i'll check 02:19:54 huangjs: well, you can just as well connect a dedicated "comet" server and talk to it over some protocol 02:21:27 Fare: yeah, my mistake 02:23:41 Orpheus: It's goddamn hard without Emacsd 02:23:43 *Emacs 02:24:02 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:24:54 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 02:25:41 Cosman246, which mistake? 02:26:19 About DW/"ITA founders" 02:26:33 I was confusing him for someone else 02:28:51 Orpheus: i changed to emacs b/c of lisp, i used to use VIm. i don't think it was a really bad switch (VIm is nice, emacs is nice too) and I'm a tad more productive now. perhaps that'd have been the same if i hadn't switched. for lisp, it helps. however learning both together was suboptimal. both emacs and lisp are quite big things to grok 02:29:12 Orpheus: also, Bike's advise was slimv, not sliv AFAIK 02:29:23 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.1.11.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:29:29 oh, yes. oops. 02:29:42 Bike: it happens :) 02:33:27 -!- SVS_ 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[~DataLinkD@1.152.202.91] has joined #lisp 04:43:46 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-137-36.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:45:28 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1168074916.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 04:50:30 -!- `fogus|away [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:50:58 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-50-85.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has left #lisp 04:52:00 `fogus|away [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 04:53:37 -!- greg` [~user@ip72-203-129-26.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 04:58:59 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-20-218.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:59:17 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-20-218.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:21 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:04:43 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:05:55 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 05:08:26 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 05:08:43 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:15:26 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@99-130-100-63.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:15:56 Orpheus: just use vim and slimv, if you're already used to vim. 05:18:07 benny [~user@i577A1E81.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:25:54 -!- EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:31:55 VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 05:33:50 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-20-218.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 05:39:17 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: brb] 05:40:48 jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has joined #lisp 05:42:56 ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:44:39 -!- 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[~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 08:41:12 ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ncbxmbkrfdklfdto] has joined #lisp 08:45:23 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:48:39 ramkrsna__ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-krxdxawnnlqyqbtq] has joined #lisp 08:50:59 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:51:39 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-3-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:19 -!- ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ncbxmbkrfdklfdto] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:56:36 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 08:59:26 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xcxuahjekypibord] has joined #lisp 08:59:27 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xcxuahjekypibord] has quit [Changing host] 08:59:27 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:59:57 -!- zolk3ri is now known as fppc 09:01:34 -!- ramkrsna__ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-krxdxawnnlqyqbtq] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:04:49 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:01 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 09:07:45 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 09:08:59 methz [~methz@109.227.11.111] has joined #lisp 09:12:24 hello. any Common Qt users? (#_new QGraphicsSvgItem) gives me Class not found: QGraphicsSvgItem. QGraphicsSvgItem is part of Qt since 4.2 so I'm not sure why it isn't working 09:14:59 -!- leoncamel [~user@219.143.149.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:20:33 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:23:02 VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 09:23:55 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 09:25:43 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 09:26:56 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 09:39:14 bitonic [~user@vm-shell1.doc.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:41:19 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-3-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:12 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:03:06 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@188.181.106.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:06:01 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:41 didi` 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has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:32:45 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 12:33:06 Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:14 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:35:04 nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-194.math.tu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 12:38:47 -!- alama [~textual@stgt-4d02c4d2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 12:41:50 hugoduncan [~user@70.24.177.33] has joined #lisp 12:42:11 -!- hugod [~user@70.24.177.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:52 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:43:30 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:43:41 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:43:51 Xach, i'm guilty of it too: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/cl-algebraic-data-type/src/35999d1ac184/cl-algebraic-data-type.asd 12:44:53 Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 12:44:55 You're 1 notch up the ladder of customization 12:44:59 notch? rung. 12:45:28 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:45:45 -!- Quadresce is now known as Quadrescence 12:45:45 maybe quickproject should create an unreadable .asd file so that the user is forced to edit it :D 12:45:47 Xach, :) 12:46:07 or add "your kitten of death awaits" 12:46:11 "CATS ARENT NICE" 12:46:18 heh 12:47:27 -!- turbolent [~bastian@turbolent.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:27 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:34 turbolent [~bastian@turbolent.com] has joined #lisp 12:47:46 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-182-200-236.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:47 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:47 -!- phrixos [U2FsdGVkX1@unaffiliated/phrixos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:47 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@li271-145.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:47 -!- astopholos_ [~brizzadiz@216.70.91.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:54 phrixos [U2FsdGVkX1@ma.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 12:47:56 astopholos_ [~brizzadiz@216.70.91.205] has joined #lisp 12:48:01 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-200-236.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:08 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:49:03 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 12:49:09 ineiros [~itniemin@li271-145.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 12:49:21 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:49:24 The ability of incremental development and re-factoring of Lisp is the most impressive. 12:50:08 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:50:54 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:28 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 12:52:21 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:52:21 You are using SLIME or? 12:52:39 SLIME ftw. 12:53:19 Write, C-c C-c, test, refactor, C-c C-c, test... 12:54:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:55:23 have to set it up one of these days 12:55:30 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:55:42 methz: Dude... Do it tonight. 12:55:45 methz: if you're a vim user, goto slimv 12:57:00 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:57:16 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:57:52 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 12:57:54 -!- `fogus|away [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:58:41 I am an emacs user but had trouble setting slime first time and havent bothered since 12:59:14 methz: use quicklisp-slime-helper 12:59:15 It's pretty easy these days: (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper") and do what's printed 12:59:17 methz: It's best way to fly. 12:59:28 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:59:50 I really want to have some nice way to install paredit (and other treats) 12:59:59 methz: Oh yes, and paredit. 13:00:06 methz: Don't do Lisp without it. 13:00:12 slime is easy because there's a CL component 13:00:45 paredit is a little different 13:01:14 flip214: Speaking of slimv, is there an easy way to send code snippets via slimv to be run by the Lisp? 13:01:26 *Quadrescence* had to code lisp in a notepad-like text editor for an interview a few times... Bad times. 13:01:49 arnsholt: ",ed" for the 2-character map; I think it's ",E" for the single-char, but I'm not sure. 13:02:18 no, ",d" to send a top-level block 13:02:34 if "," is your leader character ... 13:02:37 Ah, sorry. I phrased it badly 13:02:47 From a script, I should have added 13:02:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:02:50 of course! 13:03:00 Inode [~inode@time.uk.chromedpork.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:30 Can I write a .vim (or .py if that's simpler) that provides keybindings that run certain snippets on the Lisp? 13:03:47 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:04:01 arnsholt: http://paste.lisp.org/display/131792 13:04:33 F2 sends the current form and remembers it in register x; F3 send the current form, followed by the remembered form 13:05:11 So I send some test-expression with F2 - get an error, change some function and press F3 - that send the new function _and_ the test snippet again, to give me a new error ... etc. 13:05:30 Cheers! 13:06:20 perhaps the simplest way from a script is «:call SlimvEval(["(let ((a 1)) a)"])» 13:06:22 etc. 13:06:29 There's an app here where I work which is essentially a CL app, but much of it driven through an Emacs script 13:06:36 oh, and SlimvSendSilent() 13:07:01 And looking at the .el it's pretty much all "this key sends this snippet to the Lisp", so it should be pretty easy to duplicate as a .vim 13:07:17 Yeah, SlimvEval looks promising 13:08:02 SendSilent looks good as well. Cheers 13:09:56 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:10:06 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:12:10 urandom__ [~user@p548A2C33.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:18 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:15:37 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 13:16:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:16:12 -!- clos [~lambdakne@129.113.44.31] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:19:27 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 13:20:21 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:21:12 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-209-176.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:25:26 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:08 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 13:28:17 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 13:28:24 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:29:00 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-3-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:06 mrSpec [~Spec@89-78-118-138.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 13:29:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-78-118-138.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 13:29:06 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:32:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Client Quit] 13:33:07 mrSpec [~Spec@89-78-118-138.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 13:33:07 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-78-118-138.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 13:33:07 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:43:58 xpoqz [~xpozq@80.203.124.203] has joined #lisp 13:45:40 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:46:41 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1168074916.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 13:47:52 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-171-9-98.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:15 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:36 -!- noiy` [~user@h-72-33.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:18 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:11 -!- Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:06 lide [~migrayn@83-145-213-33.localloop.fi] has joined #lisp 14:05:52 can anyone help with installing lispbuilder-sdl? the instructions on the website involve using asdf-install to install lispbuilder-sdl from within emacs but asdf-install gives 404 when trying to download the files from cliki and cliki site says asdf-install is OBSOLETE, DON'T USE IT! 14:06:18 -!- agumonkey [~agu@235.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:06:35 didi: use quicklisp 14:06:42 lide: use quicklisp 14:06:45 didi: sorry :) 14:07:41 thanks, I'll look into it 14:08:10 lide: what operating system do you use? 14:08:18 gentoo 14:08:39 that should make it pretty easy. 14:08:47 coolio 14:09:47 Xach, let's start a joint enterprise and review quicklisp libraries together, with gratuitous sports-like commentary in video format 14:10:09 sytse [sytse@vps.swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 14:10:12 Smith & Beane on Common Lisp 14:10:20 "Did you see the new SBCL?" "Huh?" 14:10:31 :))))))) 14:10:36 -!- chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9-rc1] 14:10:42 +1 14:11:12 Xach: ? 14:12:10 SLIME is pretty awesome. I like how I can evaluate CL code in file as if it was elisp 14:12:53 loke: was ist los? 14:13:32 Xach: I was just adking about what you just said 14:13:40 What about a new SBCL? And who is Smith? 14:14:34 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:14:40 if any of you are in the Twin Cities, there's a Lisp meeting tonight 14:15:59 Quadrescence: Twin cities? Tokyo/Osaka? 14:16:16 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:16:17 St Paul/Minneapolis, Minnesota 14:16:28 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:29 Quadrescence: Oh 14:17:41 http://www.tclispers.org/ 14:21:38 chimay [~chimay@128.21-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 14:21:39 -!- chimay [~chimay@128.21-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 14:21:39 chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has joined #lisp 14:21:44 loke: Quadrescence is smith, I am Beane, and together, we fight crime 14:22:08 SBCL is a lisp review program and CL environment 14:22:13 LOL and CLON 14:22:24 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:29:37 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:30:13 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:30:18 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:30:41 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:31:03 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:36:29 sambio [~sam@190.57.227.107] has joined #lisp 14:37:02 jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has joined #lisp 14:38:34 happy programmer's day. 14:39:20 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:39 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 14:46:29 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:47:37 Daisy [~Daisy@94.191.166.116.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 14:51:48 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:52:46 ISF [~ivan@189.61.221.122] has joined #lisp 15:01:54 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:03:07 -!- methz [~methz@109.227.11.111] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 15:05:44 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-018-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:55 _d3f [~d3f@nl1.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 15:08:08 programmers day. hehe. 15:08:17 yeah 15:08:35 I guess "programmers' 15:08:37 " 15:08:47 not quite as popular as sysadmin day. about as well known as any other professional "day" 15:09:11 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-018-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:09:25 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-018-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:52 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.221.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:12:07 postfuturist [~sgoss@chirashi.kavi.com] has joined #lisp 15:16:36 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.32.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:17:13 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.111] has joined #lisp 15:18:39 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 15:21:49 agumonkey [~agu@235.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:48 well, programmers' don't have sysadmins' BOFHly perception ;) 15:24:07 and it's pretty conflated, programmers and sysadmins, in many places 15:24:39 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:24:52 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 15:32:33 -!- hugoduncan is now known as hugod 15:33:29 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:44 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:37:27 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:40 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:37:55 er .. is it a bug that (write (package-name (find-package :common-lisp)) :readably t) produces a "can't print readably" condition? heh 15:38:40 oGMo: no 15:39:07 or yes. https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/801255 15:40:09 hrm k 15:41:56 r 15:42:00 oops 15:45:38 fold [~fold@66-169-204-12.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:45:39 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-197-168.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:31 -!- paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has left #lisp 15:55:56 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:59:49 snearch [~snearch@f053009071.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:38 eni [~eni@82.230.88.217] has joined #lisp 16:03:00 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:03:42 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 16:04:34 jjkola [~androirc@212-226-74-62-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 16:05:41 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 16:06:19 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:08 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc03-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 16:11:39 dl [~download@dhcp154.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 16:12:20 pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:17:33 -!- sambio [~sam@190.57.227.107] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 16:17:51 asvil [~asvil@178.120.85.57] has joined #lisp 16:18:17 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:18:57 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 16:21:38 jjkola_ [~androirc@212-226-59-76-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 16:22:46 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 16:23:05 -!- jjkola [~androirc@212-226-74-62-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23:51 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 16:24:28 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:20 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:27 dmx [~dmx@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:40 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 16:27:16 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:29:22 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.232] has joined #lisp 16:30:04 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:11 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Client Quit] 16:32:17 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-20-218.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 16:35:41 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:37:10 Well, if the package-name is a displaced array (or some other non simple-string), it cannot be printed 100% readably. 16:37:24 But it's not nice. 16:38:36 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:39 -!- jjkola_ is now known as jjkola 16:39:00 /topic 16:41:32 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-017-086.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 16:41:46 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-195-88-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:46:09 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:49:35 -!- antonv [2e35c344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:49:35 -!- jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:51:42 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:54:46 anon119 [~bman@12.104.144.2] has joined #lisp 16:57:52 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 16:57:52 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:58:48 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:59:26 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:59:37 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59:41 danlentz [~danlentz@c-76-117-5-156.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:48 hexstream; I like sile's new loop 17:03:43 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:09 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:09:42 -!- eni [~eni@82.230.88.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:10:22 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:10:31 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:11:23 gigamonkey: Has anyone transcribed your ILC talk? Are you willing to share any notes or other materials related to it? 17:12:05 I would be happy to. I'm about to run out; can you send me an email and I'll dig up what I've got. 17:12:13 Dunno if anyone has transcribed it. 17:12:49 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 17:14:04 *Xach* emails 17:18:03 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@94.191.166.116.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18:25 Daisy [~Daisy@94.191.166.116.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 17:18:30 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-017-086.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:19:08 kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 17:19:36 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-017-086.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 17:19:44 -!- kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 17:20:03 kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 17:23:58 "Error reporting error". Love helpful messages :) 17:24:13 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-doxkpudxdbemajms] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:25:07 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-76-117-5-156.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:26:36 ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.210] has joined #lisp 17:27:42 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 17:30:24 eldar [~CLD@pppoe-220-102-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:33:28 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-195-88-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:35:13 hah 17:35:21 kmee: sounds like a story behind that 17:35:59 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-44-165.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 17:39:26 alvis [~user@tx-184-6-179-166.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:50 Lonesome Highway ;) 17:42:03 Ralith I did (let ((*standard-output* my-gray-stream)) ...) and my gray-stream's flush-buffer was throwing a condition. :) 17:42:43 that doesn't explain why! 17:43:28 I'm guessing SLIME/whatever tried to write error message to standard output, which I binded to my faulty graystream 17:44:07 sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:44:21 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-206-179.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:44:34 you bound *standard-output* around a SLIME invocation? 17:44:35 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #lisp 17:45:42 yes. I am getting the same error in regular code too, just tested it. 17:45:57 methz [~methz@109.227.11.111] has joined #lisp 17:46:03 odd how it can report that it can't report error, but can't report the actual error :) 17:47:15 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:18 Can someone take a look at this. Asked yesterday and was told it cant be done, but i am pretty sure i used a system that did just this 17:47:49 -!- ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.210] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:48:16 http://paste.lisp.org/display/131727 17:48:56 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:49:01 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:17 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:50:10 methz: You're using the package at runtime when you should do it at compile time. 17:50:21 Or read-time, rather. 17:50:40 methz: So you should add a defpackage form for your tests, too. 17:51:01 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@94.191.166.116.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:51:31 Xach yes i know that would work, but I eas just curious if it was possible to use same package for both systems 17:51:55 Without using lisp-test in :foo system too 17:52:15 methz: that's one of those "once you know how to do it, you know not to" type things. 17:52:59 methz: you could do it by using eval-when 17:53:13 -!- kanedank` [~user@anon-188-49.vpn.ipredator.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:55:16 ah i see. Something like this (in-package :foo) (eval-when .. (use-package :lisp-unit)) ? 17:56:21 I am A bit confused why use-package needs a hack like that but in-package doesnt 17:57:56 methz: that's not what Xach said. 17:58:06 10:50:56 < Xach> methz: So you should add a defpackage form for your tests, too. 17:58:36 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:58:43 i know thats the right way to do it 17:59:16 methz: use-package is a plain function. in-package is not. 17:59:30 Daisy [~Daisy@94.191.166.116.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 17:59:51 lisp-test is a bit annoying though, in that to run test you have to switch to the package where tests are defined. So i keep jumping between foo and foo-tests 18:01:29 jewel [~jewel@196-215-139-225.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:01:41 methz: lisp-unit requires that? 18:02:07 yes. It uses lisp packages as containers for tests 18:02:39 (run-tests) runs all te tests in current package 18:03:59 methz: ah. i could see that being annoying. i think i would define something like this if i used lisp-unit 18:04:07 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-243-218.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:04:32 (defun :run-tests-for (package) (let ((*package* (find-package package))) (lisp-unit:run-tests))) 18:06:12 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:07:00 m4 [~zyaph@201-8-113-39.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 18:08:49 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:08:52 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.143.171] has joined #lisp 18:08:58 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-239-99.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:45 Hello, the gentlemen could help me? Just need a click on the banner and nothing else. Thanks, and sorry for it. ---> http://ads.tt/Pl_G0g ;) 18:10:00 -!- m4 [~zyaph@201-8-113-39.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Client Quit] 18:10:14 Xach: yes that worked! Interesting idea 18:10:26 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@94.191.166.116.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:12:35 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-137-36.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:13:02 grr 18:15:54 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:23 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:17:24 -!- alvis [~user@tx-184-6-179-166.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:26 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:24 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:27:07 caoliver [~chatzilla@24-236-215-112.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:28:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:29:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:29:39 -!- methz [~methz@109.227.11.111] has quit [Quit: quit] 18:31:01 fare: a quick google for JCMA suggests he's still connected with CSAIL, and evidently gave a talk on cybersecurity with slides on 9/3/2012. He's evidently around somewhere.\ 18:31:27 -!- TDJACR [~TDJACR@lilug/member/tdjacr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:32:49 TDJACR [~TDJACR@lilug/member/tdjacr] has joined #lisp 18:32:58 we are fareless 18:33:09 setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:33:10 ...lol 18:33:31 "What's in your wallet? Dust!" 18:33:44 Since ITA is mourning, yes, fareless 18:33:49 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@47.81.76.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:34:40 Lost Highway! 18:34:52 I'm just trying to get info for pitching VLM/OG being more widely available. 18:35:31 Legitimately that is 18:36:03 it's coming any day now 18:36:14 caoliver: why? 18:36:25 Historical interest. 18:36:29 gotcha 18:36:55 I have the impression that some people think it is a miraculous shining jewel to be used day-to-day for superhuman productivity 18:36:58 Like Arc 18:37:08 I think that running and playing and M-.ing has something to teach. 18:37:13 alvis [~user@tx-184-6-179-166.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:14 Xach: why is it not the case? 18:37:14 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:37:25 vis Fred Brooks. 18:37:47 pjb: Perhaps it is. I will be pleasantly surprised if so. 18:37:48 Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.96.200.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 18:38:24 mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-159-229.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 18:38:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-159-229.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Changing host] 18:38:24 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:38:42 I think the modern compilers would beat it hollow as far as performance, but I think there are ideas to be mined. I also this it's a nice cultural artifact like a piece of Sung dynasty porcelain. 18:38:47 How many copies did they sell on Alpha? 18:38:53 No idea. 18:38:58 caoliver: That seems sensible to me. 18:39:32 Squeak, whether useful or not, serves that purpose for the Xerox Smalltalk folk. 18:39:58 caoliver +1 18:40:24 I'd also be interested in seeing it made more widely available, under any license, just for purposes of learning and cultural preservation. 18:40:33 If you want/need any help advocating, let me know. :) 18:41:38 It would also be nice to retrieve InterLisp sources. 18:42:50 Yeah. It's now called Medley and belong the maintainer's widow IIRC. 18:43:01 s/belong/belongs/ 18:47:06 -!- chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9-rc1] 18:50:28 -!- PuercoPop420 [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:51:36 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:51:36 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 18:51:36 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #lisp 18:56:55 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.96.200.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:59:10 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:59:39 woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:01:49 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:01:59 PuercoPop420 [~PuercoPop@201.230.213.236] has joined #lisp 19:02:36 sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:57 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-209-176.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:58 -!- agumonkey [~agu@235.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:04:23 agumonkey [~agu@235.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:57 ikki [~ikki@189.196.98.152] has joined #lisp 19:06:25 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:08:01 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-193-46-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 19:08:07 -!- eldar [~CLD@pppoe-220-102-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:08:43 remote [~self@unaffiliated/remote] has joined #lisp 19:08:56 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:31 bitonic` [~user@027cae25.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:35 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-27-1.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:04 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:15:01 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:15:02 francogrex [~user@109.130.74.55] has joined #lisp 19:17:00 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:18:56 I'm toying with the clisp interpreter and trying to read a file 19:19:03 well, it ain't working! 19:19:28 remote: odd. it usually works. 19:19:29 seriously though, how do I look for proper usage of a function? 19:19:38 e.g. open 19:19:48 I tried (open 'tmptmp) but I have no idea what I'm doing 19:19:59 remote: Try PCL. 19:20:03 remote: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index.htm 19:20:05 remote: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ 19:20:41 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_open.htm http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_open.htm 19:20:42 At this level the hyperspec is likely a bit much to digest. 19:20:57 yes it is 19:21:02 minion: tell remote about PCL 19:21:03 remote: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 19:21:06 gotcha 19:21:25 That should bring you into the land of the living. 19:21:28 minion: tell zolk3ri about life 19:21:29 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``life''. 19:22:00 *caoliver* says "Life! don't talk to me about life!" 19:22:04 I tried to start with "Writing GNU emacs extensions" but it hasn't been very insightful so far and no where does it mention anything about reading files so I'm left puzzled 19:22:08 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@173-22-15-5.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:22:33 Oh. Are you using emacs lisp, and not common lisp? 19:22:40 remote: #lisp is about Common Lisp, but Emacs use emacs-lisp 19:22:54 You might try for help over in #emacs. 19:23:04 pinterface [~pinterfac@173-22-15-5.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:09 well, I'm interested by lisp in general so I figured I would write it in clisp since it has an interpreter I know how to use first and then attack emacs 19:23:20 caoliver: I did... :( 19:23:23 hehe 19:23:24 they're different languages. 19:23:31 how different? 19:23:33 Emacs and CL are vastly different. 19:23:37 remote: when the rubber meets the road, there is no "lisp-in-general" language. 19:23:45 hmm 19:23:54 "You may think it's a long way to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." 19:24:01 all I want is to write a simplistic unix `tail' alternative 19:24:09 so that I can tail files in emacs on windows 19:24:16 like tail -f 19:24:22 remote: So, you want emacs-lisp, then. 19:24:33 Emacs seems an awfully big sledgehammer for that. 19:24:42 I think remote is already using emacs. 19:24:55 remote: M-x auto-revert-tail-mode 19:24:56 yeah but it's my editor and it's readily available to me in my windows VMs 19:25:00 see 19:25:01 :D 19:25:29 *caoliver* hangs head in shame. 19:25:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:26:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:27:47 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-27-1.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:28:07 Xach: how did you find this though? I searched for an existing "tail" for emacs before but didn't find anything 19:28:30 except an elisp script that actually executes tail itself which is pointless for what I wanted 19:29:16 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.74.55] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:24 remote: http://emacswiki.org/ is good place to look. 19:29:49 I'd search for it like that: C-h a tail  Oh look, there's an auto-revert-tail-mode function! Let's what it does 19:29:50 remote: emacs tip of the day or something 19:30:10 remote: i use it all the time so i remember it 19:30:11 remote: #emacs may be of interest. 19:30:15 ok 19:30:20 yes yes, sorry :) 19:31:01 two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:06 don't worry! no need to ask sorry :) 19:37:13 anyway PCL seems like a nice read, I may just go through it 19:37:32 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 19:37:33 not sure why I would learn LISP but whatever... 19:37:50 what 19:40:19 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-139-225.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:41:16 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053009071.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:48:44 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:48:48 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-20-218.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 19:50:36 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-179-123.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 19:51:18 *didi* slap remote 19:51:24 Blasphemy! 19:52:30 "This book is for you if you're curious about Common Lisp, regardless of whether you're already convinced you want to use it or if you just want to know what all the fuss is about." 19:52:32 meh :P 19:53:57 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-125-133.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:03 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:54:38 remote: You know you're in a Common Lisp channel, right? 19:56:03 here yeah, in the next buffer I'm in a common lisp interpretor 19:56:06 -!- bitonic` [~user@027cae25.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:56:30 so what's the deal with the incremented number in `clisp' 19:58:47 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-017-086.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:59:01 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-20-218.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:02 jfe_ [~jfe@149.152.109.133] has joined #lisp 19:59:04 hi all 19:59:43 does subseq allocate space for the sequence it returns? 19:59:54 remote: doesn't mean anything very interesting as far as i can tell. i don't think other CLs do it. 19:59:57 jfe_: yes. 20:00:12 ok 20:00:13 jfe_: you can make an array that is displaced to another array, and that will use less (but not zero) memory. 20:00:27 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:00:41 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:25 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:06:40 findiggle [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has joined #lisp 20:07:23 -!- emma is now known as em 20:07:37 -!- findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:08:21 -!- nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-194.math.tu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:11:47 tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.18.210] has joined #lisp 20:11:57 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-179-123.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:12:16 is there any reason why trivial-gray-streams would not compile on OS X? getting "Don't know how to REQUIRE streamc.fasl." when quickloading 20:12:45 http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/keyboards_are_disgusting.png 20:14:12 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:14:43 -!- jfe_ [~jfe@149.152.109.133] has quit [Quit: quit] 20:17:19 zolk3ri: that's a great way to stay on topic 20:18:05 felideon: in what implementation? 20:19:42 madnificent, that didn't really change the topic 20:19:44 no worries 20:27:28 -!- benny [~user@i577A1E81.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:25 Xach: both CCL and SBCL 20:29:48 It seems to compile fine on an Ubuntu machine 20:30:17 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: .] 20:30:20 benny [~user@i577A1E81.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:32:15 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:33:05 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:16 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-115.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 20:37:30 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-239-99.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38:27 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-193-46-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:38:53 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.113.180.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 20:40:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:40:58 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.37] has joined #lisp 20:41:34 -!- agumonkey [~agu@235.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:42:06 -!- AlbireoX`Laptop [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:43:11 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-27-22.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:44:43 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.143.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:45:10 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:45:12 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:34 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:53:19 foeniks [~fevon@vpn11.hotsplots.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:02 nha [~prefect@f052230245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:56:24 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 20:57:31 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-32-31.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:58:07 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:58:07 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:58:09 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 20:58:09 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 20:59:47 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:59:56 -!- foeniks [~fevon@vpn11.hotsplots.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:01:14 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:06:03 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:07:03 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:07:30 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:07:50 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 21:08:49 mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-141-68.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 21:08:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-141-68.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Changing host] 21:08:49 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:10:25 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:11:16 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:12:35 anyone read this book? http://www.e-booksdirectory.com/details.php?ebook=4176 21:13:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:14:48 -!- ASau`` is now known as ASau 21:16:01 Haskell is a member of the Lisp family? 21:16:55 what is a lisp 21:17:08 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:17:24 Well, I tend to think dynamic rather than static typed for one. 21:17:37 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:17:43 Joreji [~thomas@90-237.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:18:48 plenty of statically typed lisps around these days 21:18:54 Joreji_ [~thomas@90-237.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:19:27 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:19:50 lispm [~lispm@f054053027.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:20:07 I'd tend not to think of them as Lisps. 21:20:15 weird 21:20:20 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-115.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:21:22 Explain! 21:21:24 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-018-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:21:42 perhaps lide was working into a more general programming question 21:21:51 rather than another argument about the true lisp 21:22:14 I think it's more a case of static type people trying to shoehorn their ideas into a language that eschews that sort of thing. I don't wish them luck! 21:23:03 Sorry 'bout that. 21:23:55 I'm tiring of people advocating their true religion/silver bullet. Java and Haskell proponents often fall into that category. 21:24:32 okay, but somebody just linked a book that advertises itself as being for teaching mathematical reasoning. 21:24:42 the difference is they're wrong and Common Lisp programmers are right. 21:24:48 oh, it says it's part of the lisp family. I see. 21:25:03 -!- _d3f [~d3f@nl1.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: _d3f] 21:25:12 Ha! If only. I think many of these people have great ideas, but the evangelism sucks! 21:25:16 s/!/./ 21:25:43 it sucks to see non-lispers wasting their breath 21:25:44 Bike: that's what I was reacting to. 21:25:55 I'm a smalltalker too. 21:26:13 And I breath for the nonce. 21:26:25 breathe even 21:26:25 still, it's just one phrase in a book blurb. no need to make it a federal issue. 21:27:16 It just was a bit of a thorn in my side. 21:28:03 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0c92.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:59 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:37 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:11 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:33:07 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:33:44 eni [~eni@82.230.88.217] has joined #lisp 21:34:17 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.85.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:34:23 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-209-176.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:35:23 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-172-217.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:39:42 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:40:14 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 21:44:34 -!- caoliver [~chatzilla@24-236-215-112.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427]] 21:45:38 dnolen [~user@rrcs-208-105-4-254.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:13 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:46:14 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: good night/dobranoc] 21:48:34 agumonkey [~agu@235.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:00 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:53:42 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-3-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:52 Joreji__ [~thomas@90-237.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:54:53 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:56:06 bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-046-005-215-057.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 21:57:06 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-32-31.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 21:57:47 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 21:59:27 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:29 Hello, short question: Is it true that immutables (like ints or characters) are passed by values but other things -especially instances of a class - are passed by reference? In this case, I'm passing around a closure (which according to Let Over Lambda is passing by reference) and want to replace it with a class. Will instances of the class be still passed by reference? The objects in question is very large (>1M 21:59:29 B), so this is an issue. 21:59:47 Or, have I misunderstood it (as usual)? 22:00:16 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-32-31.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:00:32 those terms aren't really applicable to lisp, but the instances shouldn't be copied for function invocations if that's what you're asking. 22:01:29 great, thanks. what would be the correct term in this case? 22:03:02 is (all-values .. ) a common lisp procedure ? 22:03:19 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:03:33 bad_alloc: I don't think there really are analogous notions. Numbers are "passed by value" just because they don't have state to alter, unlike instances. 22:03:56 em: nope. I think Screamer has a macro called that. 22:04:40 -!- lispm [~lispm@f054053027.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 22:04:48 I saw it here: To make pythagorean tripples - 22:04:58 thanks Bike :) 22:05:01 (defun pythagorean-triples (n) 22:05:02 (all-values 22:05:02 (let ((a (an-integer-between 1 n)) 22:05:02 (b (an-integer-between 1 n)) 22:05:02 (c (an-integer-between 1 n))) 22:05:04 (assert! (= (+ (* a a) (* b b)) (* c c))) 22:05:06 (list a b c))) 22:05:12 em: yeah, that looks like Screamer. 22:05:26 em: also, you should use paste.lisp.org for snippets that long. 22:05:40 what do you think all-values does there? 22:06:12 em: http://nikodemus.github.com/screamer/ 22:06:45 -!- dnolen [~user@rrcs-208-105-4-254.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:06:54 But basically it returns all values of the return form (the list) that satisfy all the constraints (the assertion and the integer-betweens) 22:07:27 What is the suggested way to iterate over a list with successive slices of size N without using indexing? 22:08:15 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 22:08:36 Bike: it looks cool. 22:08:49 -!- dl [~download@dhcp154.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:08:56 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-3-247.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:12:29 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 22:13:32 -!- eni [~eni@82.230.88.217] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:15:51 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@90-237.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:17:51 -!- kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 22:18:19 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:22:04 redline6561: you mean (loop for (x y z . rest) on list by #'cdddr )? 22:23:27 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-20-218.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:23:34 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-172-217.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:23:36 Something like that, yes. 22:24:22 Though what I really need is more like (loop for (subseq list 0 10) on list by 10 ...) without the indexing. 22:24:49 Obviously, that was made up nonsense antifuchs but I think you get my point :) 22:25:05 oh 22:25:21 Yeah. I'm not sure what the best approach is. 22:25:23 I'm not sure you get destructuring like that without using the syntax 22:25:32 Well I don't need destructuring. 22:25:35 you COULD use a #.-generated expression 22:25:39 I just need slices of a given size. 22:25:48 and iterate by a curried nthcdr 22:25:51 And don't want to deal with bounds checking. 22:26:07 That sounds unreasonably clever. :P 22:26:13 I think you have to write your own macro, probably around repeated subseqs 22:26:18 *redline6561* sighs 22:26:30 oho wait, it's a general sequence too? 22:26:42 It'll always be a list. 22:26:44 that nthcdr thing would work only for lists, obvsl 22:26:45 redline6561: http://paste.lisp.org/display/131800 22:26:46 ah then 22:27:10 I suppose drop is nthcdr in that paste. 22:27:24 alexandria is imported but I didn't see something that quite fit. postfuturist hmm, interesting. thanks. 22:27:29 -!- fold [~fold@66-169-204-12.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:43 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-218-68.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:54 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-3-247.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 22:29:41 pk1001100011 [~pk@public-gprs405114.centertel.pl] has joined #lisp 22:30:03 guess it would be : http://paste.lisp.org/display/131801 22:31:09 It's either that or something with map and split-sequence-if... 22:32:42 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:33:36 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@47.81.76.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:33:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:50 fold [~fold@66-169-204-12.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:57 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:38:05 -!- fold [~fold@66-169-204-12.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:28 -!- two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:40:54 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:41:08 steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1168074916.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:41:57 lemonodor [4cd60e37@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.214.14.55] has joined #lisp 22:42:13 fold [~fold@66-169-204-12.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:01 -!- alvis [~user@tx-184-6-179-166.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:44:02 sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:31 i wasn't sure if it would ever happen, but apparently cliki was updated! 22:45:39 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1168074916.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 22:46:52 antifuchs: postfuturist: http://paste.lisp.org/display/131801#1 22:46:55 wound up going with that 22:47:42 redline6561: note that (length list) will re-walk the list over and over again 22:48:02 ... Good point. Fixing. Thanks! :) 22:48:09 meiji11 [~user@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:11 may also want to avoid subseqing from the beginning if you care about that 22:48:48 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.113.180.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:49:06 I don't follow. 22:49:14 The expected REPL behavior was what I intended. 22:49:23 s/expected// 22:49:45 ah, I meant that if you avoid subseq and to what it does manually, you can cache the start point for next time 22:50:06 otherwise, it goes all the way where you want to split from the beginning 22:50:58 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.113.180.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 22:51:04 This isn't performance sensitive enough to bother, I suspect. 22:51:08 cool 22:51:45 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:51:50 -!- lemonodor [4cd60e37@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.214.14.55] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:52:16 -!- PuercoPop420 [~PuercoPop@201.230.213.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:56:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-237.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:57:00 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@90-237.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:02:44 -!- nha [~prefect@f052230245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:04:11 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 23:04:56 PuercoPop420 [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 23:05:04 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 23:05:43 pinterface1 [~pinterfac@173-22-15-5.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 23:06:15 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@173-22-15-5.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:07:18 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.113.180.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:07:42 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.113.180.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 23:07:54 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-3-247.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:09:20 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.142.110.147] has joined #lisp 23:11:37 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.37] has joined #lisp 23:13:08 -!- fold [~fold@66-169-204-12.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:14 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:14:25 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:18:10 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [] 23:20:09 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-218-68.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 23:21:35 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 23:24:19 razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has joined #lisp 23:24:27 hi 23:24:55 how can I know when lexical or dynamic scope is acting? by the way I define vars? 23:25:06 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@82.208.57.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:25:26 they're lexical usually, they have to be declared special (as by DECLARE, DEFVAR, whatever) for them to be dynamic. or else a progv I suppose. 23:25:28 Special variables must be explicitely declared. All the other variables are lexical. 23:26:03 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 23:26:12 okay, thanks! 23:27:08 See: http://www.informatimago.com/articles/usenet.html#Variables 23:27:09 steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1168074916.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:28:17 pjb: that will be of a great help 23:28:45 it's a discussion group, isn't it? 23:29:11 It's usenet. 23:30:10 You normally access it thu a newsreader application using the NNTP protocol to communicate with a usenet server such as news.individual.net (subscribe at http://www.individual.net) or another named something september, or a few others. 23:30:29 At the beginning of the commercializing of the Internet, ISP used to provide the usenet service. 23:31:11 well, the link to local or global, lexical or dynamic send me to a google group 23:31:31 Google gives access to the Usenet. Badly. 23:31:51 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:01 I've just read some in wikipedia about usenet 23:32:36 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-3-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:50 so, it's the father of mailing lists 23:33:35 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:34:10 gmane.org carries mailing lists onto NNTP. 23:34:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:54 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-179-123.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:42:59 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-3-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:20 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.224.236.95.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:46:30 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.113.180.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:25 can't figure out the difference between dynamic scoping in lisp and the current scoping in C++ for example 23:53:43 if I declare a global var in C++, it acts like dynamic scoping in lisp, isn't it? 23:53:59 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1168074916.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 23:54:18 huh, I think the difference between lexical and dynamic is easier to understand that what I'm looking for 23:55:51 steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1168074916.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:57:57 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 23:57:58 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:59:58 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1168074916.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]