00:08:19 -!- zephyrfalcon [~zephyrfal@adsl-074-229-200-227.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 00:10:14 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:08 stassats: do you consider it a bug in slime-autodoc that with-open-file's argument list is shown with (element-type 'base-char), rather than ''base-char? 00:12:46 i wouldn't, really 00:13:04 it shows the arglist of OPEN anyhow 00:13:49 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:16:42 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:02 lisp turns up in the oddest places: http://vallettaventures.com/2012/08/27/tex-notebook/ 00:19:30 also, arthur conan doyle 00:25:19 and virtual machines. 00:28:10 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:27 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:28:53 everyone has one of those nowadays! (: 00:30:42 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.213.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:35:24 -!- urandom__ [~user@p54B0E41F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:24 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025377.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:36:39 LiamH [~healy@96.231.222.72] has joined #lisp 00:37:09 steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1168074916.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:38:03 stassats: yeah, that's what I figured after thinking about it some more. 00:42:32 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.132.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 00:44:44 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:44 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 00:50:43 zephyrfalcon_ [~zephyrfal@adsl-074-229-200-227.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:25 -!- zephyrfalcon_ is now known as zephyrfalcon 00:57:47 shifty [~user@114-198-35-89.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:00:39 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timeout: 244 seconds] 03:35:04 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-218-43.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 03:37:13 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:39:16 -!- zephyrfalcon [~zephyrfal@adsl-074-229-200-227.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: zephyrfalcon] 03:40:32 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:41:28 -!- poisonarms [~poisonarm@cpe-70-116-22-88.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: diarrhea] 03:44:00 sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:49 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:40 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:54:40 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 03:54:55 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 03:55:46 One of the best things about CL and Slime must be `M-.'. It's just incredible. 03:55:53 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:59 didi: :) 03:56:38 didi: seems like all major IDEs and languages have it 03:56:59 What's that? 03:57:14 stassats: Boy, the cup is always half empty for you, isn't it? 03:57:30 stassats fills the cup 03:59:28 lisp cgi for web development is such a nice thing, i don't know why i've been using php with sys_exec calls for so long when i could've been doing this the whole time! 03:59:58 or LSP: http://sourceforge.net/projects/lsp/ 04:00:16 lisp and cgi? really? 04:00:18 does anyone know, is there a command similar to php/perl "system" or exec for lisp? & any good tutorials, packages, etc for lisp as a web scripting language? 04:00:53 nydel: implementation dependant. Usually named shell. There's also run-program. (apropos "SHELL") (apropos "RUN-PROGRAM") 04:01:10 nydel: check http://cliki.net 04:01:11 stassats: yes, just a index.cgi with #!/path/to/lisp as line one & (format t "content-type: text/html~%") as the first line. 04:01:37 *nightfly_* is using sb-fastcgi 04:02:16 nydel: i know what cgi is, i'm implying that lisp is unsuited for cgi 04:02:16 pjb: thanks i'll look at those apropos. i'm hoping i can somehow use a http library like drakma to make more dynamic pages with less ajax 04:02:59 stassats: last time I measured, clisp booted faster than perl. 04:03:00 well, cgi isn't suited for much of anything nowadays, really 04:03:07 But then it was several years ago 04:03:58 nydel: what has drakma, an http client, got to do with serving web pages? 04:03:59 stassats: i'm sure you do, i've seen you around, you're far more advanced than i. but i was just surprised that it's so automatic, i thought apache wouldn't like using lisp on my little shared box 04:04:46 stassats: i don't know yet. i just know i want to build a web-page that handles http requests with a method other than activex objects & javascript 04:05:44 stassats: also i don't believe that one's standard ajax get-a-page function can post, but i may be very wrong about that. 04:06:08 javascipt is usually used in the browser, not when "handling http requests" 04:06:59 my understanding is that you are /forced/ to use javascript if you want a dynamic request to happen. 04:07:44 maybe you know a way around this since you understand the whole interworkings of well, everything, much better than myself: 04:08:20 most of my friends, who use windows especially, have javascript disabled with a whitelist. 04:08:33 a dynamic request being? 04:08:37 Which is kind of silly anymore 04:09:51 i'm thinking of a page with a social component, something that needs to update the contents of an html element by re-reading a file or running a script that gets content from a database etc. 04:10:09 like a chat room 04:11:10 say i've a chat window, and it's like a
section where the "innerHTML" is gotten by a function that creates a http-request to "update-contents.php" 04:11:25 is there any way to have that happening without using javascript? 04:11:33 & without using meta refresh 04:11:35 you want to use javascript without using javascript? 04:11:44 yes, well put. 04:12:37 click on the update button. 04:12:50 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:13:00 sometimes labelled "reload" too. 04:13:02 i know i'm sounding like an idiot to some. but if a page uses javascript, you either have to trust it or watch the console to make sure it's not running intrusive stuff 04:13:13 really? 04:13:25 AFAIK, the browser runs javascript with strong restrictions on what it can do. 04:13:26 pjb: i hear you, you're not interested. 04:13:54 So unless there's a bug in the browser, you can safely run any javascript in it. 04:14:07 Do you use bugged browsers? 04:14:48 Also, some browsers run the javascript of each page in a different chroot jailed process. 04:14:57 pjb: would you point me at an unexploitable browser, or a human-like race without a lowest common denominator that will not exploit innocent people? 04:15:21 nydel: you want to run code on the client side. to do that, you'll have to run code on the client side. such is life. 04:15:28 disabling javascript won't help your browser become unexploitable 04:16:01 the safest computer is disconnected from the internet, powerplugged off, cast in cement, and dropped above the Mariana Trench. 04:16:27 don't connect to the internet, if you don't want to break security 04:16:32 pjb: Seems a little hard to change the hard drive. 04:16:43 Bike: i guess i know that, i just don't wanna accept it. i want to run a commonlisp repl inside my web browser with no client-side code. but that just doesn't make sense does it. 04:16:56 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Client Quit] 04:16:57 pjb: haha 04:16:58 not really, no 04:17:15 nydel: well it makes at least as much sense as: http://bellard.org/jslinux/ 04:17:17 so, how is common lisp going to be more secure than javascript? 04:17:25 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:17:35 Parenthesis! 04:17:47 There are several scheme on js already. 04:18:37 pjb: What in the world is that 04:18:49 stassats: there's all this jquery & api such as google that allows people to track & intrude etc 04:19:01 -!- sambio [~sam@190.57.227.107] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 04:19:18 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-232-113.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:28 stassats: as far as i know, commonlisp hasn't been morphed into sublanguages specifically designed to do stuff like that. 04:19:32 and it probably won't be. 04:20:21 I think you have a pretty naïve view of how important Javascript specifically is to that stuff. 04:21:14 http://code.google.com/p/js-scheme/ 04:21:45 http://www.biwascheme.org/ 04:21:46 etc. 04:22:12 There are a few implementations that implement only a sublanguage of CL. 04:22:16 Bike: as in i think javascript is more involved than it actually is? or less? right now i see javascript as a powerful language primarily used for evil 04:22:20 lisp500 emacs-cl etc. 04:22:38 (granted most of the case of a subset of CL are only temporary, and actually aim at full compliance). 04:22:43 okay let me just ask this & see what you all think 04:22:54 pjb: well, these are just javascript programs, i don't see how they help nydel to curb his paranoia 04:23:08 nydel: postscript is the assembly of printer. javascript is the assembly of browsers. 04:23:20 stassats: look closer at biwa. 04:23:23 is most javascript designed to benefit the client user, or designed to benefit the service by intruding on the user? 04:23:31 stassats: --> 04:23:42 *most javascript being used on the web designed to.. 04:23:45 pjb: yes, .js 04:24:01 nydel: the web is ill-designed. javascript tries to correct a fundamental conception error. 04:24:05 nydel: I mean, anything designed with javascript's uses in mind (dynamic web applications) is basically going to have the capability to do these things. 04:24:15 nydel: it's all a big government plot to keep everyone under constant surveillance 04:24:27 this room is logged, better disconnect while you can 04:25:01 and don't forget to wear a tin-foil hat 04:25:40 Bike: that's what i don't like. because i feel like i shouldn't ask a client user to trust me to use javascript unless i explain and proove exactly what it's doing 04:25:53 Well, it won't matter after 2012-12-21, unless you're in the 1%. 04:26:13 stassats: i'm not /that/ paranoid i just want my websites to treat the user like someone i'm lucky to be allowed to serve. 04:26:21 exploits in images, anyone? 04:26:42 pjb is it that small a percentage? i was hoping for closer to 10% 04:27:00 pjb i haven't heard anyone say that besides me & a few friends. 04:27:09 nydel: no, they're not building shelters for more than the "top" 1%. 04:27:14 nydel: get to work on security theory then. in the meantime, js it is. You are presumably not reading a One World Order tracking application, so that you're using js shouldn't matter to you. 04:27:19 *writing 04:27:23 asvil [~asvil@178.121.6.112] has joined #lisp 04:27:57 <_tca> why are you executing html on their browser then nydel? 04:28:00 nydel: Start reading cm.http://bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html 04:28:11 <_tca> it has all kinds of instructions for telling the browser to load things 04:28:12 pjb: I was just about to suggest that. 04:28:14 pjb: oh. i'm talking about something else. i think something is happening, & that only a small percentage will even notice it. the remainder will just continue to live 04:28:25 _tca: well, the real question is why connect to internet? 04:28:34 ohh that url looks promising, going there now. _tca: i don't get your meaning? 04:28:44 windows had been exploitable without any browsers 04:29:00 pjb: If that is the article about an exploited compiler, it's scary. 04:29:04 stassats: because communicating with brains is more addictive than communicating with processors. 04:29:07 So far. 04:29:40 also, don't talk to people in real life, they might con you 04:29:49 pjb: i can't find the page you linked me to 04:29:57 Perhaps when we'll have good AI on desktop computers (or in smart phones), people will drop the internet? After all, if your AI can feed you all your book and tweeting neeeds, why connect? 04:30:01 +face 04:30:21 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:30:22 pjb: LOL CATS! 04:30:24 http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html 04:30:35 didi: they can be simulated and generated by teh AI! :-) 04:30:41 pjb: i authentically like that idea & i can't tell if you're being really sarcastic 04:31:01 There are already simulated girlfriend software for smartphones. 04:31:20 pjb: that's it, i'm abandoning lisp and start writing directly in binary 04:31:28 You have to use your credit card to buy her stuff to make her happy. I guess it's quite realistic. 04:31:49 just after i soldier my CPU out of transistors 04:31:55 stassats: Don't you need to build your own hardware from scratch? 04:32:01 stassats: well you can go on writing in lisp, as long as you bootstrap your own computer. Go to the beach and fetch some sand. 04:32:01 pjb: this document is probably exactly what i need to see. thanks. & sorry all to sound paranoid, i'm more just a little distressed. 04:32:48 nydel: Well, I don't think the article will make you feel more relax. 04:33:12 pjb: how do i know that sand particles aren't infected with nano-spies? better make my own big-bang 04:33:46 didi: as long as it's information, it can't hurt. i don't mind being given information, it's taking information & having information taken from me forcefully that i mind. 04:34:17 nydel: The article is not quite about it, but it sure could be used for that. 04:34:31 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-241-128.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 04:35:49 maybe i could write into my page a small folding window that shows the user exactly what client-side code is happening & when & why. 04:36:01 that would make me feel better about asking users to trust me 04:36:16 nydel: What makes you think the user would find that information useful? 04:36:20 nydel: You could distribute the javascript source. 04:36:28 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:36:35 nydel: And why would the user trust the info in that window? 04:36:43 ThomasH: i would find it useful 04:36:48 Non obscured and stuff. 04:37:04 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 04:37:09 i don't really remember users being even aware what javascript is 04:37:13 nydel: yes, that's more like it. Notice already that users can always do C-u to see the source of the page, and its scripts. 04:37:26 nydel: but indeed, visualizing and explaining the code is a good thing. 04:37:57 The problem is that users don't care. Only programmers sometimes check the scripts. 04:38:28 And then, usually only when they break and the user-programmer needs them to work. 04:38:30 pjb: i actually love this idea. and yes i could even supply links to the direct source of each script as it runs! 04:38:31 there are almost a billion users who use Facebook, do you think they care about such things? 04:38:48 Anything we can do to raise program awareness in the users should be good IMO> 04:38:49 stassats: no, but how many users of facebook feel like they trust the site? 04:39:00 stassats: thats why i want to build a different site. 04:39:02 They should! 04:39:13 nydel: The same number that would trust it even if the code was available? 04:39:19 pjb: they should trust facebook? or should care 04:39:43 all of them trust it enough to use it 04:40:21 sellout42: mine is a smaller site - so if anyone has a question about user respect/privacy they can contact me directly & i can realistically respond 04:40:42 why would they believe you? 04:41:04 And actually, they do somewhat, there was an recent blog entry showing that 2/3 of the users prefered to avoid facebook login to log into another site. 04:41:06 stassats: because i'm drawing attention to the issue. 04:41:14 nydel: they should care. 04:41:23 pjb: good i hoped that's what you meant. 04:41:25 hehe 04:41:25 nydel: also read about the AGPL3 (Afero GPL). 04:41:45 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:41:59 pjb: ok thanks, you always have great jumping-off-points for me. 04:42:06 it's best not to ask to trust you: just provide the sources of your site, and let them run it on their own servers after audit. 04:42:31 nydel: for example: http://want.ogamita.org/ 04:42:32 what kind of users are that? 04:42:45 Educated users? 04:43:28 users with too much time on their hand who cannot do risk assessment? 04:43:29 awesome. i don't ask for trust, but i be worthy of trust & provide as much proof as a user wants. 04:43:35 stassats: too. 04:43:37 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:43:54 Giving the option does not exclude those who don't care. 04:43:56 Go nydel! 04:44:05 didi :) 04:44:25 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44:44 and providing the sources of a website doesn't prevent it to forward the data somewhere else. But the source would disclose it. 04:44:57 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-232-113.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:46:08 right, and a user would be able to check it out, decide their own level of involvement in the relationship. 04:46:46 perhaps you should study http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_management 04:46:52 What are people posting on Facebook that requires that much trust? 04:47:35 stassats: i will study that exhaustively also, and i think pointing my users at that information is a good idea too. 04:47:52 ThomasH: anything. this is principle not a case study. 04:48:13 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 04:48:33 ThomasH: well dumb people do dumb things. They do on facebook the same they do when they get a tatoo, and then perform some crime. 04:48:53 ThomasH: pjb: great example 04:49:24 not like crime is the brightest thing 04:49:57 well, without a tatoo, it's harder to identify them. 04:50:53 ThomasH: imagine i'm running a website that is about ethical hacking, or the safest ways to use cocaine (i've always been sad that http://www.heroinhelper.com is unable to have a forum). 04:51:36 nydel: And... 04:51:43 ThomasH: as opposed to posting pictures of myself in the mirror, or of my new baby 04:52:54 and about risks, there are too many risks of varied degrees involved with every aspect of life, if you're going to pay too much attention to each of them, your activities will grind to a halt 04:52:56 ThomasH: i want my users protected from having to worry about self-incrimination. not to encourage crime or stupid behavior, but to encourage the freedom to discuss all things openly and honestly 04:53:46 stassats: i'm glad you're here to emphasize the risk-management side of this, i hope you know i'm taking it as just as important 04:54:11 nydel: have them use Tor and don't keep a database of them! 04:54:17 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: trivial-irc-0.0.3] 04:54:44 encourage users to use tor! i love it! 04:54:51 nydel: I would take care of that myself. Use a TOR browser, create a throw-away email account, etc. 04:55:59 tor doesn't really help much with privacy 04:56:19 oh and encourage users to register using a throw-away email & a pinger telephone number (if sms is involved) 04:56:21 stassats: It's a component 04:56:44 it doesn't change what you publish there (like right now, in the logs) 04:56:45 nydel: What does any of that have to do with the code? 04:57:30 benny [~user@i577A1876.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:57:56 -!- leo2007 [~leo@124.248.202.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:58:32 ThomasH: i guess it's not just about keeping the user safe from me & my site, it's furthermore also about keeping the user safe from agencies that might exploit me/my site. 04:59:33 nydel: Are you going to limit the agencies access to your site? How are you going to protect the users from social engineering? 04:59:36 (in the event that i fail to protect them) 05:00:37 i can provide them with information on risk management, as stassats has suggested. and i can provide information on little-known-about things like social engineering too. 05:01:19 Social engineering a fairly established technique pre-dating computers. 05:01:37 It's fairly well known. 05:01:39 you know what i mean 05:02:00 High school boys do it to their girlfriends every year at prom. 05:02:21 i can provide users with a citation-heavy guide to general privacy protection, security & risk management 05:02:37 ThomasH: my prom date sure as hell did it to me! 05:03:02 if only mitnick had published that book before then 05:05:21 back in a bit, going to do some reading. thanks everyone for being so veraciously helpful. 05:07:58 I don't trust that nydel. 05:08:04 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:08:53 ThomasH: fine i'm going to go smoke pcp in the bath tub. still, back soon. 05:09:22 *ThomasH* chuckles 05:09:58 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-212-128-247.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:59 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 05:14:55 -!- paul0 [~paul0@177.132.103.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:16:10 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 05:16:43 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 05:19:39 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 05:21:32 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 05:22:15 stassats: does it make sense to put a ignore-errors around lisp-indent-line in slime-indent-and-complete-symbol? 05:22:38 are there errors? 05:22:48 lisp-indent-line calls beginning-of-defun and some major modes err such as ESS 05:23:13 http://ess.r-project.org/ 05:23:40 how does ess concern slime? 05:23:49 stassats: through swankr 05:25:00 http://common-lisp.net/~crhodes/swankr/ 05:25:31 well, it's not a part of slime, so it should deal with r stuff itself 05:25:38 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-qdnjcmrljhczllfr] has joined #lisp 05:25:44 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 05:25:58 that's not very r specific stuff 05:26:12 simply beginning-of-defun could err, that is all 05:26:36 anyway just a thoght! 05:26:57 ignore-errors is vicious 05:27:19 -!- zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:28:26 -!- lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has quit [Client Quit] 05:29:03 stassats: I agree. ESS is a mess and probably should be blamed. I'll get them to fix their beginning-of-defun instead. 05:30:08 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 05:31:13 stassats: is it possible to replace (lisp-indent-line) with (funcall indent-line-function) 05:31:34 there are more and more swank servers for non-lispy languages. 05:32:34 leo2007: Is it hard to write a swank server? 05:32:40 didi: no 05:32:53 leo2007: lisp-indent-line is not the only thing in that function which is lisp-specific 05:33:13 stassats: Nice. I was thinking about integrating GIMP's scheme with Emacs. 05:33:19 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 05:33:23 That would be awesome. 05:33:34 leo2007: just don't use slime-indent-and-complete-symbol for non-lisp code 05:33:38 didi: is it using guile 05:33:39 ? 05:33:52 stassats: Nope, unfortunately. 05:34:05 TinyScheme. 05:34:18 then it's hard 05:34:23 Awww... 05:34:54 -!- jjkola [~androirc@212-226-59-10-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:36:13 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:36:17 nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@smtpbt.pramati.com] has joined #lisp 05:36:37 jjkola [~androirc@212-226-42-84-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 05:36:38 but if we do (funcall indent-line-function) then both worlds will be happy for indentation. 05:38:19 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:39:52 quazimodo [~quazimodo@CPE-124-189-52-202.mqzl1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:42:19 teggi [~teggi@123.20.49.227] has joined #lisp 05:42:46 DoctorDude [~Jake@144.26.129.2] has joined #lisp 05:48:06 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:49:13 -!- DoctorDude [~Jake@144.26.129.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:50:24 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.71.210] has joined #lisp 05:50:56 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-qdnjcmrljhczllfr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:54:49 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 05:56:21 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 05:56:44 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 05:56:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 05:56:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:58:37 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:59:51 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1168074916.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 06:05:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:12:37 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:21:19 Bacteria [~Bacteria@CPE-120-147-5-171.hdqu1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:24:57 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:25:34 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:27:18 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 06:29:26 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.23.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:29:36 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: hallucinations] 06:33:25 -!- jjkola [~androirc@212-226-42-84-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Quit: quit] 06:42:02 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 06:43:46 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.71.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:49:04 _veer [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:05 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:49:05 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 06:49:22 -!- _veer is now known as lolsuper_ 06:53:00 trebor_dki [~user@kvpn.lbf.fraunhofer.de] has joined #lisp 06:55:40 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:55:48 mskou72 [~mskou72@91.144.254.250] has joined #lisp 06:57:35 bitonic [~user@027cae25.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 06:59:39 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:00:38 stepnem [~stepnem@82.208.57.182] has joined #lisp 07:00:39 Anyone got an example on using net-telent-date:data:parse-time to translate a string in a custom format to universal time? 07:00:51 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-242.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:02:43 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c7b5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:49 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 07:05:54 I acknowledge that its a library and not a language issue, but damn, something like that just have to be easy. 07:06:58 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.34.59] has joined #lisp 07:10:27 mskou72: (net.telent.date:parse-time "04/09/2012") ? 07:11:29 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:11:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:12:01 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:12:11 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-129-146.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sayonara] 07:12:28 didi: i guess it is the "custom" bit that makes the answer more complicated 07:12:38 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:40 Doesn't local-time have features to do that? 07:12:48 H4ns: oic 07:13:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:13:41 loke_erc: it does, but it is limited in what it can parse 07:17:30 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:17:49 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.232] has joined #lisp 07:19:43 This will parse the date correctly: (net.telent.date:parse-time "04/09/2012" :patterns (cdr net.telent.date::*default-date-time-patterns*)) 07:20:11 Seems very odd, though. 07:20:19 and not very "custom" either 07:20:24 Indeed. 07:20:33 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 07:21:01 when i have a custom date format that i need to parse, i write a function that parses it. 07:21:18 having a generalized date parsing system seems like overkill to me 07:21:55 Yes, thats an option. I'm coming from Python and just missing some of the batteries :-) I'll just parse it. 07:22:34 mskou72, what are you trying to parse? Example? 07:23:11 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-nddeggzfznknpslj] has joined #lisp 07:23:18 It a date from some Exif data, fx "2011:02:26 10:09:29" 07:23:20 This is better: (parse-time "04/09/2012" :patterns '((day date-divider month date-divider year))) 07:24:29 mskou72, I'd do two split-sequences and map parse-integer :) 07:24:43 and then stuff it in whatever data structure 07:25:07 (or convert to univ time) 07:25:26 Q: Yes, that would work! 07:26:22 that is something even local-time would easily parse 07:28:32 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:31:37 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:32:19 mskou72, http://paste.lisp.org/display/131501 07:34:25 mathrick [~mathrick@0x5da0f2f6.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.odnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:34:37 mskou72: http://paste.kde.org/543824/ 07:35:22 Thanks, Q & D! 07:37:10 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@CPE-124-189-52-202.mqzl1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:37:56 mskou72: Actually, you don't need the parentheses around `secondp'. 07:38:58 mskou72, and you can replace CONCATENATE 'LIST with 'APPEND 07:39:06 mskou72: the parentheses denote an optional element, and I'm guessing the number of seconds is queried. 07:39:18 s/queried/required 07:40:31 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 07:41:49 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@CPE-120-147-5-171.hdqu1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 07:42:21 H4ns, did you happen to get qemu working? 07:44:55 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:46:17 Quadrescence: not with native framebuffer support 07:46:25 :( 07:46:40 Quadrescence: vnc works fine, though 07:49:00 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-21-170.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:49:26 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.221.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:50:46 Quadrescence: i found that after compiling the ccl lisp kernel with hwfloat support (as described in gb's announcement post), everything works just as expected, if a little slow 07:50:52 (i'm on a real pi now) 07:52:59 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:56:55 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@0x5da0f2f6.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.odnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:58:14 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-10.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 08:02:38 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 08:05:43 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 08:15:21 cfy` [~cfy@123.159.207.162] has joined #lisp 08:15:25 -!- cfy` [~cfy@123.159.207.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:16:03 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:16:38 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@170.151-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 08:16:38 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@170.151-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 08:16:38 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 08:17:38 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:18:20 cfy` [~cfy@199.180.254.36] has joined #lisp 08:19:37 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:23:58 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:24:37 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:26:17 mathrick [~mathrick@0x5da0f2f6.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.odnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:27:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:35:54 Alessandro` [~user@2-229-0-141.ip194.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:36:13 -!- Alessandro` is now known as zermo 08:41:03 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:43:53 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:43:55 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:44:25 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:45:38 pk1001100011 [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:45:39 ykm [~yash@124.155.255.201] has joined #lisp 08:45:55 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:58:19 DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@101.161.249.159] has joined #lisp 09:00:07 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.168.63.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:14:04 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 09:16:31 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:28:36 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:52 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 09:29:15 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.187.181] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 09:30:37 -!- ykm [~yash@124.155.255.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:31:34 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 09:32:42 alama [~jessealam@stgt-4d02ed7c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:11 -!- DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@101.161.249.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:34:42 -!- pk1001100011 is now known as pskosinski 09:37:22 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-242.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:37:48 lpvb [~lpvb@199.188.72.31] has joined #lisp 09:37:53 ousado [~ousado@unaffiliated/ousado] has joined #lisp 09:37:56 Hey, what's lisp? 09:38:06 is it about speech impediments? 09:38:16 LISt Processing programming language. 09:38:23 lpvb: type /topic 09:39:26 hmm. programmable language... what's programmable mean? It's about speech impediments right? 09:39:54 programmable programming language. It means you can program your own programming language. 09:40:37 lpvb: no, we are not about speech impediments 09:40:43 pjb: You *are* trollproof, after all, aren't you :)? 09:40:55 lisp is about this: )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) 09:40:57 I don't get it 09:41:11 antoszka: hope makes me live: perhaps they'll turn lisp programmers? 09:41:23 lpvb: don't worry. Go to http://cliki.net/ 09:41:39 my friend said this is a good place to talk about lisp treatment 09:41:44 lisp is interesting, i'm sure i'll find a dialect i like soon 09:41:55 lpvb: your friend bullshitted you then, sorry 09:42:45 :( 09:42:47 -!- lpvb [~lpvb@199.188.72.31] has left #lisp 09:46:13 oh, it was a tiny bit fu-fu-fu-funny. 09:50:56 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:52:43 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 09:52:49 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:52:54 -!- cfy` is now known as cfy 09:52:55 -!- cfy [~cfy@199.180.254.36] has quit [Changing host] 09:52:55 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:55:01 drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 09:55:05 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:55:42 bitonic` [~user@vm-shell1.doc.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:55:48 MHD [59968bd0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.150.139.208] has joined #lisp 09:56:47 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:51 -!- bitonic [~user@027cae25.bb.sky.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:56:54 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 09:58:56 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 10:00:00 -!- MHD [59968bd0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.150.139.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:03:41 -!- ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-81-244-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ipmonger] 10:06:18 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 10:08:47 Bacteria [~Bacteria@c210-49-87-246.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:08:51 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@c210-49-87-246.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 10:09:34 -!- zermo [~user@2-229-0-141.ip194.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:15:10 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:15:37 molbdnilo [~Ove@80.216.199.115] has joined #lisp 10:25:12 *Quadrescence* falls in love with FUNCALLABLE-STANDARD-CLASS. 10:25:38 snearch [~snearch@f053002166.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:26:16 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:26:30 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:28:13 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:28:53 -!- molbdnilo [~Ove@80.216.199.115] has quit [Quit: molbdnilo] 10:29:01 -!- n00b6502 [~ceti331@host81-157-102-115.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:29:18 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:30:31 -!- gko [~user@220.228.255.202] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:30:57 molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-199-115.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:32:53 Quadrescence: cool -- how are you using it? 10:33:48 alama, here's an example of something I'm hacking on: compiled functions which carry symbolic information with them, so we can do symbolic operations on functions like differentation and have them be JITed in some sense: http://paste.lisp.org/display/131505 10:34:20 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:34:23 rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-169-14-136.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:35:03 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 10:41:32 neat! 10:45:02 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.187.181] has joined #lisp 10:48:57 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.187.181] has quit [Client Quit] 10:53:53 Thra11 [~thrall@222.112.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:41 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-058.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:52 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-54-120.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:59:58 peterhil` [~peterhil@cs181193108.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:59:59 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:04 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:19 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@cs181193108.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:05:02 peterhil` [~peterhil@cs181193108.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:05:17 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-241-128.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:05:34 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-058.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:06:41 Hello 11:07:55 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:08:32 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-197-111.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 11:08:47 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:09:49 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@222.112.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:55 Thra11 [~thrall@222.112.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:24 How do i access a symbol defined in package a from outside the package, if its not exported? 11:16:38 package::symbol 11:16:39 mskou72: package::symbol 11:16:46 K: Thx 11:16:48 H4ns: ;) 11:18:22 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@cs181193108.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:19:17 peterhil` [~peterhil@cs181193108.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:19:32 can package:: be avoided, it seems like fx (in-package :net.telent.date) does not work inside a function? 11:20:04 mskou72: (let ((*package* (find-package... 11:20:05 mskou72: in-package is not supposed to be used in functions. 11:20:22 mskou72: maybe you should review the pcl chapter on the package system 11:21:03 mskou72: Do you want to patch existing system? 11:21:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:22:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:24:11 ncw [~ncw@host86-157-102-199.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:25:20 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:28:32 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-241-128.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 11:30:22 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: home] 11:33:45 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:34:02 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 11:39:17 -!- Paarthurnax [~Adium@c-75-71-21-183.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:39:25 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:43:24 asvil: It won't help. You need to switch *package* at read time. 11:43:56 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-59-123.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43:59 naryl: ok, I was wrong 11:45:32 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-59-123.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 11:47:01 im making a function for converting between exif-string-date and universaltime. Using the net.telent.date lib. From my function i call parse-time which takes a :patterns arg with symbols defines inside net.telent.date. 11:50:15 mskou72: may be (eval-when (...) (export '(symbols) (find-package net.telent.date)? 11:51:09 here is the code for the function http://paste.lisp.org/+2TGY 11:51:54 n00b6502 [~ceti331@host81-157-102-115.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:52:02 #programming 11:52:06 oops 11:52:07 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:23 -!- molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-199-115.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: molbdnilo] 11:55:24 have annoted the fix by inserting net.telent.date:: in front of the symbols… Not pretty but works. 11:55:28 mskou72: so, my general idea is to export these symbols in your project by something like, file net.telent.date-patch.lisp which contains (in-package :net.telent.date) (export '(symbols)) 11:55:53 Anyone know a working jabber client in CL? I've yet to find one I'm satisfied with, and CL is a need if I'm to fix the problems I find. 11:56:09 s/need/necessity/ 11:56:21 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 11:58:06 Cymew there are no working clients, but I have prototype. It is a little bit ugly 11:59:35 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:00:32 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:01:51 Seems like the finished ones are in a minority then. Do you have any code you're sharing, should I happen upon a reserve of energy? 12:03:28 I guess a library with XMLRPC or whatever twisted XML thing it is XMPP uses is the big thing. 12:03:58 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-232-113.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:24 http://paste.lisp.org/display/129527 12:04:32 Cymew: ^ 12:06:19 Impressive. Even though some parts are missing, it amazes me what you can fit in a screenful of CL! 12:07:10 Cymew: yes. sctring-case is required 12:07:15 Cymew: you've got a big screen 12:08:23 Cymew: you know, that xmpp protocol is flexible but complex, so in the wild you need to support namespaces, probably html, extensions 12:09:25 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:09:52 flip214: Well, I did have to scroll to see it all, but still. ;) 12:10:32 asvil: Yeah, there's a lot to it. That's why I was grasping for something instead of just starting on a project of my own... 12:11:06 ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-76-26-112-202.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:30 knobo [~bohmer@97.80-203-252.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:12:42 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@0x5da0f2f6.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1101.odnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:12:45 Cymew: did you look at cl-xmpp? 12:12:51 Can I do (defun fun (list) (declare (list-of-numbers list)) ...)? 12:13:04 xmls from cxml is really convenient to convert xml to sexp, but after that it is required to pattern matching, pattern matching, pattern matching, etc 12:13:10 Declare a variable as a list of numbers? 12:13:14 CrLF0710 [~user@114.96.79.26] has joined #lisp 12:14:17 knobo: not really 12:16:16 ok. 12:16:22 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-197-111.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:17:02 and also it was impossible for me - to encrypt channel after retrieving xml packet with available extensions (for jabber.ru), I connected to "encrypted" port at once 12:18:37 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-21-170.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:20:51 Fenne [fenne@sixbox.es] has joined #lisp 12:21:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:22:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:23:15 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-232-113.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 12:24:02 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 12:25:51 -!- mskou72 [~mskou72@91.144.254.250] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:26:03 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-156-24.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 12:27:46 asvil: Yeah, I foresee some troubles with encryption. Last time I looked, the code for encryption was not that great. That might have changed, though. 12:28:08 rootlocus: No, that one I must have missed. Thanks for the heads up! 12:28:38 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:29:02 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-126-181.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:48 Cymew, unfortunately cl-xmpp does not work for me, because it can't handle stream xml 12:33:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:33:17 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-238-023.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:48 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:34:28 -!- knobo [~bohmer@97.80-203-252.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 12:34:31 I see 12:35:43 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-241-128.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 12:36:11 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:29 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@cs181193108.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:45:19 Cymew: I had similar problems to asvil, but thought you might like to know it exists 12:46:00 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:46:10 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053002166.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 12:46:43 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:50:36 sambio [~sam@190.57.227.107] has joined #lisp 13:02:02 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:47 add^_^ [~add^_@m90-131-127-20.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:04:18 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-54-120.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:04:18 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 13:04:22 molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-199-115.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:05:41 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:07:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:07:44 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.177.64] has joined #lisp 13:07:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:07:50 -!- setmeaway2 [stemearay@119.201.52.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:08:26 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:08:57 ArmyOfBruce [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:54 booguie [~booguie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:16 -!- ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-76-26-112-202.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:13:15 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 13:15:00 ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-76-26-112-202.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:08 on the off chance, has anyone here managed to get cl-gtk2 working on osx? 13:19:48 -!- ncw [~ncw@host86-157-102-199.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:42 Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cranlnxqwllnxhwd] has joined #lisp 13:21:01 am0c [~am0c@61.79.133.224] has joined #lisp 13:23:45 strg [~strg@2.211.167.74] has joined #lisp 13:24:53 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:26:48 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:28:00 Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 13:31:17 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-241-128.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 13:31:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:31:51 add^_^ [~add^_@m37-3-58-169.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:32:19 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:33:35 rootlocus: Yeah. Thanks 13:33:40 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-131-127-20.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:33:41 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 13:34:19 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-58-169.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Client Quit] 13:37:07 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 13:38:31 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:41:10 -!- am0c [~am0c@61.79.133.224] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:42:12 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.34.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:45:51 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 13:47:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:49:59 harshrc [~harshrc@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 13:51:48 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:52:35 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:52:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:54:17 basis [~basis@187-26-105-29.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 13:54:56 -!- molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-199-115.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: molbdnilo] 13:58:45 hswe [~hswe@blackhole.space150.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:48 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:19 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.177.64] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 14:00:20 paul0 [~paul0@177.132.103.142] has joined #lisp 14:06:23 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 14:09:18 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:09:45 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:10:12 molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-199-115.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:10:43 -!- molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-199-115.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Client Quit] 14:11:33 steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-242-208.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:14:21 urandom__ [~user@p54B0E227.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:00 Paarthurnax [~Adium@67.51.189.130] has joined #lisp 14:17:10 -!- Paarthurnax [~Adium@67.51.189.130] has quit [Client Quit] 14:17:21 aslan69 [~aslan69@67.51.189.130] has joined #lisp 14:17:47 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 14:28:00 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BD81.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:43 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 14:30:17 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:32:13 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable216.122-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:32:20 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:00 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:34:52 -!- nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@smtpbt.pramati.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:54 -!- booguie [~booguie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:18 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 14:36:59 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:15 CMUCL's build process is one of the most archaic I've seen in a while 14:39:37 -!- paul0 [~paul0@177.132.103.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:53 yakov [~yakov@spb.nexenta.com] has joined #lisp 14:40:25 be thankful. it inspired sbcl. 14:41:53 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:42:55 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 14:45:09 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:22 paul0 [~paul0@200.175.60.11.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:45:27 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-19-235.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 14:45:42 Xach: I am thankful 14:45:52 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-19-235.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:57 So what aspects of CMUCL are better than SBCL? 14:46:55 So, I published a new library this weekend: http://sellout.github.com/2012/09/03/opt-check/  curious what people think (and am also trying to get myself blogging regularly again). 14:48:28 So, are MCL and SCL maintained at all? 14:48:56 loke: Scieneer CL is actively maintained. 14:49:00 loke: Clozure will maintain MCL (which has been open sourced) for money, but generally, not so much. 14:49:18 sellout42: can i use you type hierarchy picture to cltl2ed (my edition:) 14:49:20 ? 14:49:38 with copyrights 14:49:51 loke: Some of the extra goodies of CMUCL (hemlock, WIRE, bytecode system, etc) were ripped out to make SBCL simpler. 14:50:04 Xach: what is WIRE? 14:50:11 asvil: Yeah, definitely. I'm also happy to incorporate improvements  I feel some of the MOP stuff makes it confusing. 14:50:43 And, is there any benefits of a bytecode system? I find the default compilation in SBCL to be quite acceptable, if not attractive :-) 14:51:02 loke: i believe it's some kind of serialization or communication protocol 14:51:25 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@222.112.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:51:41 loke: i think the appeal of cmucl is mostly to people who have many years experience with cmucl already 14:51:52 I see 14:53:09 Man, something as simple as implementing a platform-independent EXIT has taken 8 commits to far. Damn stassats for pointing out my mistakes :-) 14:54:32 -!- brown` [user@nat/google/x-qlgizrfwkumiiqth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:36 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-134-227.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:58:14 brown` [user@nat/google/x-ksfeqghxfzsplqhl] has joined #lisp 14:58:15 -!- aslan69 [~aslan69@67.51.189.130] has quit [Quit: aslan69] 14:59:47 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:59:55 ncw [~ncw@host86-157-102-199.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:17 -!- yakov [~yakov@spb.nexenta.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:03:04 aslan69 [~aslan69@67.51.189.130] has joined #lisp 15:03:36 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:03:57 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.175.227] has joined #lisp 15:04:20 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:04:51 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 15:05:06 -!- aslan69 [~aslan69@67.51.189.130] has quit [Client Quit] 15:05:27 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:05:52 loke: don't build cmucl, just use a snapshot 15:06:52 Hrmm, Alexandria has a WHEN-LET*, but not an IF-LET*? 15:07:56 -!- ncw [~ncw@host86-157-102-199.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:06 no if-progv? what a shame! 15:09:35 jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has joined #lisp 15:10:34 H4ns: i think cl-who might have broken weblocks 15:10:44 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:12:22 *Xach* drills down 15:12:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:13:07 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:13:10 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:13:18 yes, it has broken weblocks 15:13:32 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:15:22 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-134-227.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:15:38 In the old version, (cl-who:with-html-output (*standard-output*) " ") would print   but now it signals an error. 15:16:09 jjkola [~androirc@212-226-66-236-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 15:16:13 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:33 that's easy to fix 15:17:04 What is the fix? 15:17:18 adding (and (consp form) ...) 15:17:24 before doing (first form) 15:17:31 I'm glad H4ns likes making releases so much now 15:17:48 Sad for this asdf-utils disaster though 15:18:27 what happened with it? 15:19:07 It requires a very very recent version of ASDF 15:19:29 If your implementation doesn't have it or if you haven't upgraded sufficiently recently it requires manual intervention to use 15:19:41 asdf-utils is in the dependency chain of weblocks and other software 15:20:14 i see 15:20:22 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-242-208.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 15:21:13 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-238-023.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:21:26 hm, it's easy to fix cl-who not to error, but the place where it puts such declarations doesn't make the least sense 15:21:27 Hi Xach, If I would like to submit a new software to add to quicklisp, what would be the procedure? There is nothing regarding it on the website... 15:21:28 The idea, apparently, is for the utils re-exported from asdf by asdf-utils to be simply moved wholesale into asdf-utils eventually. 15:22:10 ah, no, my mistake, it puts it into the right place 15:22:16 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:22 lemoinem: create an issue at http://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/issues 15:22:28 but! when it doesn't, it's easy to overlook 15:22:34 lemoinem: see also http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/faq.html 15:23:04 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:07 Heh, it also breaks genworks-gdl 15:24:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:24:24 nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 15:24:42 Xach: thank you, I missed that... 15:25:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:25:35 here's the issue with cl-who declarations: http://paste.lisp.org/display/131509 15:26:23 sneaky 15:26:33 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:55 tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.23.209] has joined #lisp 15:29:42 for some reason it wraps every form with this LET 15:31:52 of course, it prevents modifications from escaping, but still, it's internal, who would modify it on purpose? 15:32:48 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-149-100.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:46 -!- strg [~strg@2.211.167.74] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 15:33:49 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:33:53 yakov [~yakov@spb.nexenta.com] has joined #lisp 15:34:04 -!- alama [~jessealam@stgt-4d02ed7c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 15:34:57 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-212-128-247.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:35:55 optikalmouse [~user@gw.trapeze.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:08 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:40:08 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.49.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:58 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-175.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:44:20 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.6.112] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:45:24 asvil [~asvil@178.121.6.112] has joined #lisp 15:45:24 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.6.112] has quit [Client Quit] 15:45:41 asvil [~asvil@178.121.6.112] has joined #lisp 15:46:13 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 15:47:20 ok, i see why it does that on each form 15:47:34 rassoc is rubbish 15:47:44 so, guess the correct fix would be to insert (let (...) nil ,@form) 15:47:49 francogrex: is that so? 15:48:15 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:37 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 15:50:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:51:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:55:51 stassats: let me tell you why. 15:56:28 booguie [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:59 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:57:09 Xach, H4ns: opened a github issue with patches and all 15:58:23 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 15:59:44 francogrex: the suspense! 16:00:40 lol 16:00:44 (assoc "AT" iso :test #'equal) -> ("AT" "Austria") 16:01:09 there's a package for that! 16:01:27 iso being a list of lists with elements like ("VE" "Venezuela, Bolivarian Republic of") ("VG" "Virgin Islands, British") ... 16:01:35 oh, it uses a different ISO 16:01:41 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.208] has joined #lisp 16:01:42 francogrex: #'equalp might be a nicer test - you can use :at then (: 16:01:47 also, "at" 16:01:50 what package? yes I want the two letters 16:01:57 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-nddeggzfznknpslj] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:02:08 https://github.com/stassats/iso-3166-1 it's three letters 16:03:37 i could expand it, of course 16:03:38 -!- kuzary is now known as lactuca_virosa 16:03:38 ok, wthankls I'll look at it. but to continue the example: (rassoc "South Africa" iso :test #'equal) -> nil. 16:03:59 why because it's not a cons 16:04:02 why would you use assoc in any case? 16:04:23 s/assoc/alists/ 16:04:27 to retrive the full name 16:04:47 you can see the code in the above link, it doesn't use associated lists 16:04:48 because I have it as an alist 16:04:59 don't have it as an alist 16:05:23 redscare [~user@18.205.1.206] has joined #lisp 16:05:27 ok I'd better look at the package. But what use is rassoc it's rubbish who uses cons these days? 16:05:35 what? 16:05:55 i wrote a small application in SBCL that i'd like to run on the command-line. i'm a little confused as to the best way of doing this? 16:06:20 I mean ("ZA". "South Africa"), why would I use it like that? 16:06:25 redscare: a) save an image, b) use --script c) run it from slime 16:06:51 francogrex: You save one cons per entry, also you get a bidirectional mapping (with assoc/rassoc). 16:06:52 francogrex: because that's how associated lists are defined? 16:07:01 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 16:07:09 stassats: definitely don't want (c), I don't want to distribute but i want it to run regardless of slime's status. what is the practical difference between (a) and (b)? 16:07:46 then use --script 16:07:57 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:08:31 redscare: a) starts faster, but takes more space c) virtually doesn't take any space, starts much slower and produces copious amounts of output when loading dependencies (unless curbed) 16:08:50 b), not c), of course 16:09:21 pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:09:33 ok, i will use --script then. what is the opinion on buildapp? 16:09:57 -!- basis [~basis@187-26-105-29.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Quit: basis] 16:10:00 it's the same as a), only easier 16:10:42 stassats: so I have to read the data as conses what a pain... :( I'll look at your package now 16:10:52 i see. i'm surprised (a) takes more space. wouldn't dumping the image get rid of the junk in the interpreter I don't need? 16:11:05 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-129-146.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:24 no 16:12:02 and it's not an interpreter 16:12:18 antonv [2e35c344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.68] has joined #lisp 16:13:14 antifuchs: can you show me on this little code how equalp and at works: (rassoc "South Africa" (list '("ZA" . "South Africa")) :test #'equal) (of course I prefer that (list '("ZA" . "South Africa")) be (list '("ZA" "South Africa")) 16:13:48 why do you prefer it that way? 16:13:55 do you have a fear of dots? 16:14:03 redscare: for that you need lispworks pro 16:14:10 francogrex: "at" was just another way of writing "AT". #'EQUALP is just case-insensitive. 16:14:34 stassats: lol. No fear ofdots it's just the way the data are available to me; I want to avoid another transformation 16:15:01 sellout42: ah right, well 16:15:04 transform it to a hashtable 16:15:16 alists are not suited for this 16:15:17 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:15:23 ok 16:15:27 francogrex: sorry, I should have recommended :test #'string-equalp 16:15:45 string-equal, surely 16:16:26 antifuchs: it's ok I would probably have figured that out, but doesn't solve the specific issue. Anyway I'll look at stassats package 16:17:32 but equalp is also fine isn't it? 16:17:54 *francogrex* digressing again 16:18:36 -!- lactuca_virosa is now known as kalanchoe 16:18:39 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 16:19:05 bloody iso, removed the 3-letters code table from their site 16:19:13 patojo [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:22 -!- booguie [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:20:24 "A database containing the alpha-2, alpha-3 and numeric-3 codes as well as details of the administrative language can be purchased from the ISO store." 16:21:34 I guess the 3 letters code is not as frequently used 16:21:53 -!- kalanchoe is now known as chelidoniun_maju 16:24:34 I use 3-letter almost exclusively, to minimize confusion with two-letter state/province/etc. abbreviations. 16:25:00 and they're easier to understand 16:25:58 e.g., AR, is that Argentina or Armenia?, much easier with ARG and ARM 16:26:42 is Armenia even a country? 16:26:55 you gotta be kidding 16:27:16 it's just a region of the USSR 16:27:33 there's no USSR anymore 16:27:35 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-134-227.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:27:44 (FIY) 16:27:45 stassats: But is it ARMv6 or ARMv7? 16:28:09 when I run a lisp file with "sbcl --script", is there a way to force asdf to be loaded? 16:28:19 require it 16:29:20 stassats: FIY ? Federazione Italiana Yoga ? Falling Into You ? 16:29:40 -!- jjkola [~androirc@212-226-66-236-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:30:01 minion: what does FIY stand for? 16:30:02 Fingerparted Ingemination Yarnwindle 16:30:10 there you go 16:30:11 francogrex: In Soviet Russia, Information Fors You. 16:30:13 -!- chelidoniun_maju is now known as spilanthes_olera 16:31:17 -!- spilanthes_olera is now known as spilanthes 16:32:15 stassats: you are an international hero 16:35:15 minion: what does CMD stand for? 16:35:16 Consentive Mandible Depletory 16:35:29 minion: nonsense! 16:35:29 watch out, you'll make krystof angry 16:36:36 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has joined #lisp 16:37:30 arnsholt [~arne@80.203.170.54] has joined #lisp 16:39:56 I have a corpus which is annotated using sexprs, but which contains things like (, ,) which makes the default reader really sad. How do I turn off all processing to get everything as lists of symbols? 16:39:57 jjkola [~androirc@212-226-57-157-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 16:40:17 can't, don't use symbols 16:40:32 I've tried a couple things with set-macro-character and set-syntax-from-character, but not the right things it seems 16:40:46 Ah, dang. 16:41:28 even if you could, using symbols for that is a bad idea 16:41:57 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:42:20 -!- redscare [~user@18.205.1.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42:34 That's true. I was just hoping there'd be a dead easy solution since everything is wrapped up in sexprs already (I didn't make it, I'm just a consumer of it) 16:43:03 well, you can still use s-exprs, just not with symbols 16:43:08 use strings instead 16:44:12 Yeah. I'm writing up the sed hackery to make it that way 16:44:41 sed...hackery? 16:45:03 why not lisp hackery? 16:45:41 Because sed hackery is easier (for me at least) for this 16:46:00 sed 's/\([^() ]\+\)/"\1"/g' $wsj 16:46:31 It's not pretty, but it does the job 16:47:11 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 16:47:17 Greetings lispers 16:47:39 anon119 [~bman@12.104.148.2] has joined #lisp 16:48:30 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:51:41 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-017-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:45 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:53:48 -!- upasna is now known as sweet_kid 16:54:52 -!- optikalmouse [~user@gw.trapeze.com] has left #lisp 16:56:36 -!- patojo [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:56 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:57:00 booguie [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:03 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:58:20 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-169-14-136.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:59:25 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 16:59:36 cfy` [~cfy@199.180.254.36] has joined #lisp 16:59:46 -!- sambio [~sam@190.57.227.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:59:55 -!- brown` [user@nat/google/x-ksfeqghxfzsplqhl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:39 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:02:54 i have to switch to ccl from sbcl. anything major i should be aware of? 17:02:56 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:03:13 leoncamel [~user@219.142.132.189] has joined #lisp 17:03:25 axion, prepare to go from FAST to WAY TOO FAST 17:04:05 iirc buildapp is SBCL only. 17:04:17 i think it could be ported to ccl 17:04:46 axion: SBCL has very specific typed arrays, like (complex double-float), that other implementations may not have. I run into that. 17:04:51 Xach, time for TRIVIAL-BUILDAPP eh? 17:04:54 axion: prepare to go from "sweet, I can work interactively!" to "http://xkcd.com/303/" 17:04:58 i am going to have to dev on an ARMv6 now 17:05:18 sykopomp, hah 17:05:28 axion, SBCL has no ARM port. 17:05:33 exactly 17:05:51 oh I misread. You're going from sbcl to ccl 17:05:53 Quadrescence: I blame you for confusing me! 17:06:04 Oh, I misread too then! 17:06:12 axion: make sure that you recompile the lisp kernel for hw float abi if your platform has that. 17:06:19 brown` [user@nat/google/x-jvbkkdomvfumupfk] has joined #lisp 17:06:23 Don't worry, this transformation is easy: just reverse all of the words 17:06:31 H4ns: it be an rpi like yourself 17:06:32 axion: Yeah, CCL doesn't have a (complex double-float) array element type. Need to watch for those types of things. 17:06:53 Quadrescence: i think it could be under the regular umbrella 17:06:53 Heres a fix: "prepare to go from compiling FAST to compiling WAY TOO FAST" 17:06:53 axion: heh. cool. any particular plans? or do you even have a real project? 17:07:09 sellout42, :))) 17:07:14 *Xach* urges H4ns to read scrollback 17:07:35 i'm writing a webapp atm. was trying to write a binary reader for vorbis metadata, but abanonded temporarily 17:08:05 (for anyone who didn't get the reference, 20 seconds in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FnXlcpG0LQ ) 17:08:12 a webapp hosted on arm6? 17:08:37 yeah 17:08:39 Xach: wow! i can make another release! 17:08:39 sykopomp / axion: Raspberry Pi? 17:08:46 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has left #lisp 17:08:49 for storing some data - is there a way to generate FASLs of a special variable (via SBCL would be sufficient) and load them again? 17:08:55 cl-elephant is dead AFAIK ... 17:08:56 oh sweet, yes. 17:08:59 I approve. 17:09:01 I knew you would be excited! 17:09:17 elephant is dead but does the job well 17:09:42 Xach: but it'll have to wait until tomorrow morning 17:09:48 does pomo/pg run on arm6? 17:10:16 why wouldn't pomo run on it? 17:10:19 H4ns: ok 17:10:27 H4ns: travel? 17:10:45 -!- leoncamel [~user@219.142.132.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:10:54 sykopomp: and you can run pg in the Cloud 17:10:55 stassats: I don't know. I'm not sure about the state of postgres on ARM machines. 17:11:05 Xach: i'm in florida but working at daytime. 17:12:53 *Xach* can't wait for the next sunlisp at the Chuckle Hutt 17:12:58 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 17:13:37 sunlisp is tonight 17:13:49 but i think i'll be beat and pass that meeting. 17:13:55 heh 17:14:06 do they talk about lisp at all? :) 17:14:19 he does, sometimes 17:16:21 i've got an extra raspi with me that i'd be willing to part with if someone's interested 17:16:22 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:16:41 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 17:16:59 -!- cfy` is now known as cfy 17:17:00 -!- cfy [~cfy@199.180.254.36] has quit [Changing host] 17:17:01 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 17:18:53 *sellout42* has been meaning to pick one up, but can't see when I'll have time to play with it. 17:19:51 H4ns: how much? 17:20:13 pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:20:50 sykopomp: 40 euros 17:22:02 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 17:22:03 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-017-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:22:22 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has left #lisp 17:23:18 That makes no sense, a new one is 25USD ~= 20EURO 17:23:33 that's what i paid 17:23:51 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-006-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:24:37 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:24:48 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:28:33 i have the invoice and i'll happily take it back home, too :) 17:28:45 H4ns: model B? 17:29:27 H4ns: imagine a Beowulf cluster of these! 17:29:29 H4ns: Maybe you should pick up a few more while you're here, and sell them in EU ;) 17:30:33 H4ns: I don't doubt that you paid that. I hope that includes S&H and/or an enclosure. 17:31:10 sykopomp: model b 17:31:36 H4ns: if it's a model B, I'm willing to take it off your hands for $50. Specially if the transaction happens to be formalized over lunch. :) 17:32:10 model b is $35 with s+h is $48.10 from newark.com 17:32:27 sykopomp: You're still in Florida? 17:32:30 -!- CrLF0710 [~user@114.96.79.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:32:46 yeah 17:33:12 Erlanging instead of Lisping, but still enjoying the near misses from large storms. 17:33:27 better than 10 feet of snow. 17:33:37 -!- lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: lolprog] 17:33:40 bite your tongue sir 17:34:14 :( sorry 17:34:26 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:36:04 bad weather, solitude and a comfy chair (well technically fireplace too), is underused idea generation tool. Add org-mobile on Nexus for capture, and you're all set for taking over the world 17:36:10 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:36:10 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 17:36:11 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #lisp 17:38:48 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 17:41:34 -!- brown` [user@nat/google/x-jvbkkdomvfumupfk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:43:19 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:33 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:53 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-59-123.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:01 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:23 brown [user@nat/google/x-xbovkvminwniixmr] has joined #lisp 17:46:51 -!- brown is now known as Guest24698 17:47:53 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:37 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.175.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:49:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:50:41 seabass [~seabass@c-98-229-120-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:59 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 17:56:57 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:58:18 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:01:53 Thra11 [~thrall@87.113.125.17] has joined #lisp 18:02:26 in com.gigamonkeys.binary-data, are the u types LE or BE? 18:02:52 you can check it 18:02:59 yes, I think they're BE 18:09:20 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:09:24 ehu` [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:10:04 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 18:11:39 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:12:23 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:12:34 home [~home@184.175.51.21] has joined #lisp 18:12:36 Hello 18:12:54 do you fellows know what this message means, and how I can solve it? 18:13:15 *Xach* hopes so 18:13:26 an invisible message? 18:13:36 http://pastebin.com/88zESi2i 18:13:38 *ThomasH* waits for first contact 18:14:15 i think it's evident what it means 18:14:25 home: What are you doing? 18:14:51 didi: I used ./configure trying compile a CAS math package called Maxima, that runs on lisp 18:15:11 and yet, you don't have lisp installed 18:15:22 home: I see. For the message, you have to install a Lisp implementation. 18:15:39 More Info: http://pastebin.com/bNguRYD5 18:15:43 didi: ah D: 18:15:55 I kinda guessed that, but I am pretty new to this :) 18:16:01 Never used Lisp before..so XD 18:16:05 -!- ehu` [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:16:09 home: Nah, it's fine. 18:16:17 well, you could just read the error message instead of just guessing 18:16:21 it looks pretty clear 18:16:32 home: If the message is correct, you can choose any of the implementations it lists. 18:16:42 home: what is about maxima binaries from your linux package repositories? 18:16:58 asvil: I dont like binaries XD 18:17:08 entrix [~entrix@176.14.152.169] has joined #lisp 18:17:17 home: Bu asvil is right. It would be much better if you could install it from the repositories. 18:17:18 didi: So I can just install lisp from my repo? 18:17:26 -!- entrix [~entrix@176.14.152.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:17:30 didi: I got in the habit of compiling stuff :/ 18:17:37 home: Your call. 18:17:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:17:57 ah, that's why we have a global warming 18:18:04 home: pacman (apt-get install) -S sbcl 18:18:24 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.132.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:18:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:18:45 _d3f [~d3f@nl1.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 18:18:49 not using Arch but ...will attempt again ! 18:19:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.24.203] has joined #lisp 18:19:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.24.203] has quit [Changing host] 18:19:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:20:04 <_d3f> hello i got one problem here '*** - READ from #: an object cannot start with #\) 18:20:47 _d3f: Something smelly inside your `document.lisp', probably. 18:21:03 But I'm guessing. 18:21:06 _d3f: = ETOOMP 18:21:18 <_d3f> whe i copy all functions to the repl it works 18:21:25 = too many closing parentheseses 18:21:29 <_d3f> just fails @ (load "document.lisp") 18:21:36 _d3f: open that file and do M-x check-parens 18:22:20 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.10.66.89] has joined #lisp 18:24:41 <_d3f> I've never used emacs stassats ... shame on me i know. 18:24:55 _d3f: You should. It's awesome. 18:25:02 Shame shame shame, shame on you! 18:26:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:27:07 _d3f: use vim, it's better anyway ;) 18:27:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.55.162] has joined #lisp 18:27:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.55.162] has quit [Changing host] 18:27:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:27:27 is there a CASE variant that takes a :test argument? I'd need to dispatch based on strings. 18:27:56 flip214: alexandria:switch IIRC. 18:28:01 you could use string-case, it's in quicklisp 18:28:11 <_d3f> flip214: i am using vim 18:28:14 pjb: ah, thanks, could have guessed. 18:28:18 _d3f: with slimv? 18:28:39 <_d3f> nope 18:29:01 <_d3f> i will install it now 18:30:02 take a look at the screencasts, too 18:30:08 does vim have M-x check-parens? 18:30:46 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 18:30:51 stassats: at least it does rainbow coloring, with BIG READ ")" if they're mismatched 18:31:12 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.6.112] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 18:31:14 so, it's not better? 18:31:45 -!- yakov [~yakov@spb.nexenta.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:31:47 whiteCatRunning [45ae3a5c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.174.58.92] has joined #lisp 18:31:53 oh, it surely is ... it has a normal- and an insert mode, among others, so it _has_ to be better ;) 18:32:47 <_d3f> stassats: I have a working code => when I copy every function the programm works. Just when I try to load the .lisp file it fails. 18:32:48 crack cocaine addicts say that it's better too 18:34:33 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-149-100.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:47 stassats: do you understand german? http://nichtlustig.de/toondb/020302.html 18:34:53 if not, I can translate it for you 18:35:14 i understood enough 18:35:44 fine ;) 18:36:14 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-149-100.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:36:14 -!- gigamonkey_ is now known as gigamonkey 18:37:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:37:52 -!- ameoba__ is now known as ameoba 18:38:13 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:38:14 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:40:59 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.115.25.186] has joined #lisp 18:41:07 krrrcks [~krrrcks@krrrcks.de] has joined #lisp 18:43:40 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.113.125.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:44:35 -!- antonv [2e35c344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:45:24 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-213-180.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:48:12 <_d3f> flip214: the syntax of the code seems okay due to the slimv highlights 18:48:34 paste the code 18:48:42 the () coloring is done by paredit IIRC 18:48:47 is there a paste? 18:48:57 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:02 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:49:02 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 18:49:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:50:09 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.115.25.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:50:33 The highlighting is due to show-paren-mode 18:50:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:50:59 Thra11_ [~thrall@191.212.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:06 <_d3f> http://paste.lisp.org/display/131515 here you go stassats 18:51:12 Mon_Ouie: they're talking about vim, imagine that! 18:51:31 <_d3f> and yeah sorry for some german words in it. 18:51:36 stassats: I hadn't even noticed this was #lisp and not #emacs :p 18:52:29 _d3f: the very last parenthesis is superfluous 18:53:41 <_d3f> okay 18:53:43 maybe i can make a paid web-service for vim users which would checks parenthesis 18:53:52 <_d3f> hehe 18:54:01 <_d3f> thx 18:54:10 ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:54:14 <_d3f> I don't get this editor 18:54:32 Gah! PJB pointed that out first thing. 18:54:33 <_d3f> it shows me that the last parenthesis is set right o.O 18:54:42 if I load this file, I see that the last ")" is superfluous - it's highlighted in bright red 18:54:47 Besides the fact that the message said as much. 18:55:31 try ":syntax sync fromstart" 18:55:44 perhaps you've only 5 lines backtracking configured or something like that 18:56:49 <_d3f> hmm I see it works now flip214 ... thx anyways. And sorry. I just started with clisp a few weeks ago. 18:56:58 even paste.lisp.org shows that the last ")" doesn't match ... although only when the mouse is pointing, and by _not_ highlightning 18:57:13 np 18:57:18 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 18:57:31 _d3f: it's common lisp, not clisp 18:58:33 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:59:50 <_d3f> okay, I thought it was the same. 19:00:14 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:00:17 ha ha ha 19:00:24 a goood one 19:00:30 _d3f: clisp is one particular implementation. 19:00:35 nope, Conversational Lisp is completely different 19:00:38 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 19:00:40 _d3f: The usual acronym is CL. clisp is a particular implementation 19:00:44 -!- Nisstyre_ [~yours@bas9-hamilton14-3096717720.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:01:20 *yrk* thought that clisp was lisp written with a lisp 19:01:26 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 19:01:34 <_d3f> I should really learn how to read wikipedia. 19:02:06 -!- kanedank [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:24 -!- Nisstyre is now known as Nisstyre_ 19:02:46 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.99] has joined #lisp 19:03:54 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:05:00 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-196-75.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:19 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@191.212.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:31 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:08:19 wmoxam [~wmoxam_@pdpc/supporter/active/wmoxam] has joined #lisp 19:08:57 -!- wmoxam [~wmoxam_@pdpc/supporter/active/wmoxam] has left #lisp 19:09:12 _d3f: hmm vim showed the extra parenthesis in inverse red here 19:09:37 you still need to eye-grep it, M-x check-parens is much better 19:09:46 or even better, slime runs it before C-c C-l 19:10:04 <_d3f> phadthai: i got it => ":syntax sync fromstart" solved it for me 19:10:12 C-c C-k rather 19:10:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:11:34 If you use paredit, it will even cry out the moment you open the file. 19:11:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:12:30 _d3f: there is a reference to *animals* which should be *animal* it seems 19:13:29 <_d3f> yeah phadthai I am working on it. and also I think it's wrong to write (setf *animal* ...) 19:14:17 Thra11 [~thrall@206.16.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:15:12 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 19:15:42 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:15:51 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:16:37 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:16:39 <_d3f> the whole function @ line 92 seems wrong because elements with an energy below 0 wont be removed. 19:17:39 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@206.16.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:18:49 sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:13 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:19:19 -!- ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:20:13 ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:20:36 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:20:41 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:41 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:22:38 yrk: clisp is Lisp written in C. 19:23:00 Some kind of C at least. 19:23:54 What lisp isn't written in c? 19:24:16 _d3f: there are places where with-accessors would probably be good also 19:24:23 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:24:37 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 19:24:38 _d3f: and good work btw, keep it up :) 19:24:41 <_d3f> http://paste.lisp.org/display/131516 here is a working solution phadthai 19:25:04 -!- ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:26 Indecipherable: almost all of them 19:25:31 Common Lisps, that is. 19:25:59 <_d3f> phadthai: It's quite based on a programm of a book. ^^ But as a next step i want to try to add some other animals and make 'genes' for plants too 19:26:08 A typical model is a bit of C and a lot of Common Lisp. 19:26:15 well yes I know the genre of such programs of course :) 19:27:07 <_d3f> I love to create life-simulations. Started with one in C++. But all animals died because of incest then :( 19:27:49 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:27:59 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:28:33 <_d3f> I will go now, see you soon guys 19:28:37 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:28:37 sambio [~sam@190.57.227.107] has joined #lisp 19:28:40 -!- _d3f [~d3f@nl1.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: ~] 19:30:02 sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:19 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 19:31:30 francogrex [~user@109.130.184.247] has joined #lisp 19:31:50 minion: how to send a memo? 19:31:50 you speak nonsense 19:32:01 indeed ! 19:32:15 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:32:37 minion: help memo 19:32:37 To send a memo, say something like ``minion: memo for nick: the memo''. I'll remember the memo for any nick which is the same as the given nick, +/- differences in punctuation, and any nick which is an alias for it, and give it to them when they next speak. 19:32:47 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:55 -!- whiteCatRunning [45ae3a5c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.174.58.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:32:59 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.99] has joined #lisp 19:33:24 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.99] has quit [Client Quit] 19:33:38 You can also use memoserv. 19:33:42 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.99] has joined #lisp 19:33:46 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:33:52 or email 19:34:40 /email Xach 19:34:44 doesn't work. :-( 19:34:45 minion: cool. I'd rather you give them the memo when they join, because some don't speak. that's also difficult but. 19:34:46 yes, yes it is 19:35:14 /msg MemoServ SEND Xach I thought email was supposed to be dead 19:35:31 francogrex: some aren't around when they just join 19:35:42 pjb: I wanted to send a memo to you, but here you are. How is the Linc project going? 19:35:57 Xach: Oh! So you're refering to a defect of minion vs memserv. 19:36:18 kanedank [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:33 francogrex: not moving for now. But the sources are available at https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/linc 19:36:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:37:19 stassats: you mean they join but they're absent-minded, just staring blankly at the screen? 19:37:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:37:31 pjb: ok thanks 19:37:31 no 19:37:39 francogrex: obviously, I'm more motivated to work on it when I have a C job :-) 19:37:54 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:38:24 francogrex: I leave IRC running 24/7 but sometimes it reconnects while I'm sleeping. 19:38:25 Perhaps I should put a crowdfounding on, I may have time to work on it next month. 19:38:59 pavelpenev: yes, we'd need our computer to detect our presence with their webcams and microphones and other sensors, and report that, instead of mere connection. 19:39:29 Status: he's in the room, but watching TV, not my screen :-( 19:39:34 pjb: I think email is better than IRC memos via any mechanism. 19:39:48 pjb: CREEEPYY 19:39:52 Xach: sure. My point is that you don't always know the email address. 19:40:00 irc is relatively anonymous. 19:40:01 pavelpenev: yes I know. 19:40:38 pjb: That is not the case on #lisp. 19:40:48 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.99] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 19:40:57 Well, only memoserv knows the email addresses. 19:41:09 Perhaps minion should just defer to memoserv for memos. 19:41:13 Everyone knows how to email me, Xah Lee, when they need to. 19:41:14 pjb: yes I'll participate given that I'm motivated 19:41:21 haha. 19:42:01 francogrex: I was suggesting a financial participation :-) But otherwise you're free to work on it, it's AGPL3. 19:42:24 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.99] has joined #lisp 19:42:33 sykopomp: deal! 19:42:55 pjb: I meant financial praticipation. I can only help in that aspect. not skilled enough otherwise 19:43:44 don't waste your money! 19:44:38 Why does tiobe index have lisp and common lisp as separate? 19:44:42 -!- bitonic [~user@vm-shell1.doc.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:51 Indecipherable: you can ask that tiobe 19:45:29 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.196.84] has joined #lisp 19:47:10 Indecipherable: Another question to this tiobe would be: What is this Lisp language? 19:47:37 Indecipherable: e 19:47:53 Indecipherable: because tiobe stands for accuracy 19:47:54 lisp? what is lisp 19:47:58 why should I learn it :o 19:47:59 Paradigms: Functional; Type system: Dynamically typed 19:48:02 I hear its dead :/ 19:48:03 stassats: if I don't my wife will 19:50:17 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-006-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:52:32 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.10.66.89] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 19:53:50 how to know the nationalities on people here? 19:54:17 << < take a guess 19:54:24 francogrex: One option is not to care. 19:54:27 francogrex: you ignore it 19:54:58 centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-139-144.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:59 not ethnicity or anything like that, just where they are located geographically 19:55:24 francogrex: based on extensive mapping work i've done, most lispers are located in the pacific ocean 19:55:34 lol 19:55:39 -!- ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-76-26-112-202.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:56:00 yes, with lisp, you too can own a yacht :) 19:56:45 Xach: It's so that we can code in international waters free from all governments. 19:57:09 We're seasteaders 19:57:10 Xach: the silent majority or atlantis 19:57:43 H4ns: cool. I probably can't do anything during the week, but weekends can work. PM me to let me know what works for you. :) 19:59:59 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:00:18 pjb: the way I see it Linc is rather complete (I didn't go into all details). 20:00:42 farnearer [~Adium@host86-149-166-172.range86-149.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:54 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:02:13 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-65-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:03:37 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:05:16 -!- farnearer [~Adium@host86-149-166-172.range86-149.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:06:45 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:06:57 add^_ [~add^_@m90-131-127-166.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:07:05 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: this computer sucks] 20:07:53 sabalaba [~Adium@c-50-131-59-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:28 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:04 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-10.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:15 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:16:28 -!- guaqua` [gua@2a00:16a0:0:400::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:16:59 francogrex: the current sources are in the middle of some change/restructuring, AFAIR. I had to stop working on it in the middle of hacking 20:18:39 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:44 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:20:02 Somebody good with statistics could compute the number of bigfoots on the planet, given that they live in forests, there have been about 500 documented sighting, the human population density in those areas, and the superficie and perimeters of those forests. 20:20:13 IMO there are probably more bigfoots than lispers. 20:20:31 pjb: Yeah, but bigfoots are real. 20:20:35 So we could indeed disappear from sight of the goverments :-) 20:21:57 pjb: the good way to do it is bt using Capture-Recapture technique 20:22:08 -!- lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:22:19 perhaps, but they're smart and rare. 20:22:25 when someone sees a bigfoot they should mark them and then release them back into the wild 20:22:59 and strong, it's not easy to capture them either :-) 20:23:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_and_recapture 20:23:34 well then just paintball shoot them from far 20:23:37 They're not animals, they're compatible with human. 20:24:55 it doesn't matter, humans are also animals + humans enjoy playing paintball so why wouldn't bigfoot 20:25:41 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 20:25:42 http://tinyurl.com/bigfoo 20:26:14 francogrex: I'm sure smartness influences the rate of capture and of recapture. 20:26:50 We'd have to check the statistics theory behind it, but I bet it doesn't take into account the IQ ratio between the student specie and the studied specie. 20:27:33 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:27:37 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-139-144.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:28:04 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:28:58 maybe we're captured in a simulation run by the bigfoot 20:29:06 *pavelpenev* turns his tinfoil hat in, obviously doesn't deserve it, after reading the earlier discussion about js, and now this. 20:29:36 "It is assumed (Krebs, 1998) that all individuals have the same probability of being captured in the second sample, regardless of whether they were previously captured in the first sample (with only two samples, this assumption cannot be tested directly)." 20:34:08 yeah probably won't work on bigfoot, maybe more luck on lispers 20:35:47 We could try it on next ILS, and again on the following. Bring nets! 20:36:00 or ELS. 20:36:26 Thra11 [~thrall@206.16.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:49 Pizza works for me. 20:39:14 *pavelpenev* has identified all the good locations for sniping in his town, can't reach his school anymore for fear of painball and nets. 20:39:27 in an actors agency db, 5 of 871 selected that they have a "Yeti" as one of their animals :) 20:40:54 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-156-24.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:48:13 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-195-228.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:56 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-235-174.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:56 meiosis [~user@114.94.22.185] has joined #lisp 20:56:01 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:56:17 kanchax [~Xc43@modemcable126.51-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:58:12 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:59:05 -!- kanchax [~Xc43@modemcable126.51-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 21:00:41 bitonic [~user@027cae25.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 21:06:01 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.177.64] has joined #lisp 21:06:20 -!- seabass [~seabass@c-98-229-120-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: woosh] 21:09:35 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:09:35 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-126-181.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:09:40 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:09:52 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:14:55 jockc [~jockc@208.88.132.251] has joined #lisp 21:15:15 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:15:15 anyone around for a CL question 21:15:46 go ahead and ask 21:16:24 if I'm using READ-LINE to read a text file, is there a way to override the newline such that I could use any arbitrary string for end of line 21:16:30 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:18:34 jockc: don't think so. just read-char until you hit the marker? 21:18:37 jockc: Just parse the line. 21:20:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:20:29 of course I can parse the line but at a huge penalty in performance; I was hoping though for something like $\ in perl 21:20:45 I mean $/ 21:21:01 jockc: You're already using read-line, that's not exactly a speedy way to work through a file. 21:21:29 I suppose you're right 21:21:32 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:22:16 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.196.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:22:29 Wow, someone agreed with me. Thanks, you guys have been a great audience. I'm outta here! 21:24:47 tali713 [~user@c-24-118-58-11.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:49 jockc: by far the fastest way to read, is to read in chunks and split afterwards 21:25:51 jockc: cl-ppcre could likely help you with the splitting of the string. 21:25:52 I've seen snippets that read a whole file with read-sequence 21:26:05 Just read the whole file. 21:26:21 pavelpenev: yup, that's the fastest i think. there's even a blog post comparing different approaches :) 21:26:47 jockc: I've run into issues running out of space with large text files, which led me to realize that I should split the large file into logical units. 21:27:06 jockc: The text file was not organized well. 21:27:12 yeah I can't read the entire file into memory, I'll have to do it in chunks 21:27:16 ThomasH: large text files are often written in ASCI, which means you can use base-char 21:27:26 ThomasH: or simple-base-string 21:27:29 the file can be any size 21:28:09 jockc: will it be too large in practice? or are you trying to overengineer it? (not implying an answer) 21:28:47 I work with files in the hundreds of MB on a regular basis 21:28:47 rvchangue_ [~rvchangue@cpe-075-176-099-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:59 also: reading in chunks is fairly easy, #'read-sequence 21:29:11 in case of over-engineering, file-length exists 21:29:31 jockc: and you have gigabytes of memory... 21:29:34 so an implementation might do different things for different sizes 21:29:58 I just found some code I wrote a long time ago to do something like this 21:30:33 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:32:08 jockc: use read-sequence to read a block or the whole file, and process the vector filled with the file contents. 21:33:38 yeah that's what my code is doing; read-sequence in small chunks to assemble lines; using arbitrary EOL string 21:33:47 No. Read-sequence in BIG chunks! 21:33:55 Otherwise just use read-char. 21:34:33 or read-byte? is it more efficient than read-char ? 21:34:43 Yes, read-byte is more efficient. 21:34:58 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:37:54 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:40:49 francogrex: guess why :-) 21:41:43 Notably, file-length will probably return nil on text files nowadays (because they're encoded in utf-8). 21:44:27 reactormonk: tell me 21:44:37 francogrex: utf-8! 21:45:08 good then op's problem solved 21:46:02 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.241.128] has joined #lisp 21:46:09 pjb: is there a reliable way to determine the size of a text file? 21:46:30 Has anyone written something like http://docs.python.org/dev/library/argparse.html for CL yet? 21:46:31 Sure: (loop for ch = (read-char stream nil nil) while ch sum 1) 21:46:58 sykopomp: no, never. 21:47:12 sykopomp: why wouldn't you write a library for that? 21:47:21 HELLO 21:47:23 sorry caps 21:47:48 sykopomp: that'll be only the sixth library to parse command line arguments. 21:48:00 pjb: I'm just wondering if it exists yet. I've been thinking of using CL for more scripty stuff. I wouldn't mind hacking it together myself when the need actually arises. :) 21:48:06 pjb: that's why I asked! What's available? 21:48:15 check http://cliki.net 21:48:21 sykopomp: I use Didier's CLON. 21:48:46 Command-Line Option Nuker, IIRC. 21:49:04 pjb: can't you ask the OS about file size? 21:49:26 reactormonk: yes. But you won't know how many character there are in the file! 21:49:45 POSIX files are sequences of octets, not sequences of characters. 21:49:52 theres 30+ utility libraries, 20+ testing frameworks, more html generators and template languages than you can count, I doubt there would be a shortage of argument parsing libraries :) 21:50:00 -!- meiosis [~user@114.94.22.185] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:39 pavelpenev: Well, obviously, in 53 years, nobody thought of writing any library. Perhaps we should start something? 21:50:52 sellout42: thanks! 21:52:11 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:52:34 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-175.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:03 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-59-123.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:53:26 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.184.247] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:53:27 pjb: despite my very best effort, I have a personal utility library forming in my hacks/ directory. 21:54:10 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:54 pavelpenev: I think that's totally reasonable. Some pieces may coalesce into coherent libraries, others may get moved into Alexandria if they're popular enough. 21:56:26 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:57:51 alexandria? 21:57:54 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.99] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:03 reactormonk: http://cliki.net 21:58:22 util/*.lisp :) 21:58:32 for all your damn-dirty-hack needs. 22:02:10 plists are deprecated in favor of hashtables? 22:02:13 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:29 reactormonk: hu? 22:02:32 reactormonk: no 22:02:38 brains are deprecated too. I don't know in favor of what though. 22:03:35 The AI book from Peter Norvig mentioned that somewhere 22:03:58 Who's this Peter Norvig? A python programmer? 22:04:02 oh, it's 1992 - did lisp change that much in the last two decates? 22:04:07 pjb: Zing! 22:04:19 reactormonk: no, no change. Thankfully! 22:04:21 reactormonk: It hasn't changed at all in longer than that ;) 22:04:26 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:04:31 reactormonk: please, before you continue on that path, give a real citation. 22:04:38 sellout42: I suppose stuff like asdf and quicklisp changed... 22:04:46 "i've read it somewhere" does not qualify 22:04:49 they're not CL. 22:05:00 norvig does say something along these lines 22:05:08 in PAIP 22:05:09 reactormonk: Are you talking about a symbols plist? 22:05:10 H4ns: Paradigms of Artificial Inteligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp from Peter Norvig 22:05:15 ThomasH: yep 22:05:28 well, we've deprecated the deprecation of remove-if-not, so it changed a bit :) 22:05:29 H4ns: isbn 1-55860-191-0 22:05:41 pjb: Actually I started reading PAIP (again) a few days ago, and a few things surprise me right in the very begginning. 1st, he says we need the SETF special form not evaluating its first argument, because otherwise we would have had no way of setting a variable. What about plain old SET 'FOO? 22:05:49 reactormonk: A symbols plist has an entirely different use from a hash-table. 22:06:07 antoszka: set 'foo doesn't work on lexical variables. 22:06:07 ThomasH: basically a liberal struct? 22:06:20 pjb: Then a few pages on he says, that (LAMBDA (X) ) will return an error, while it returns # 22:06:24 and there are perfectly good uses of symbol-plist. 22:06:40 it was written a while ago, I guess before the lambda macro 22:06:42 antoszka: it means calling that function. 22:06:43 reactormonk: No, a symbols plist should be used to describe properties of the symbol, it's specialized. 22:06:56 reactormonk: A hash-table is a general use data structure. 22:06:59 he also spends time on inefficiency from keyword arguments 22:07:02 or perhaps cltl2 yes. 22:07:08 I already found that (lambda... ) works as well as #'(lambda ...) 22:07:11 pjb: Got the book handy? 22:07:23 I have it close yes. 22:08:47 pjb: Page 21, about 75% down. 22:09:14 Maybe I'm misreading his thoughts, but I just think he's oversimplifying for the sake of a beginner lecture, or something. 22:10:49 -!- magnificrab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:11:10 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-50-131-59-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:11:37 sabalaba [~Adium@c-50-131-59-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:48 pjb: he clearly writes on page 9, about half way down if it did not exist [setf], it would be impossible to write a function that assigns a value to a variable. 22:11:53 dunno 22:12:29 would it be quicker to learn scheme and move to cl, or to just learn cl 22:12:34 magnificrab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:37 just learn cl 22:12:40 *quazimodo* has so little free time nowadays 22:12:44 k 22:12:58 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-50-131-59-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:13:05 quazimodo: learn CL, it would take some time to deprogram your self from all the scheemisms you'll pick up that don't apply to CL 22:13:40 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@82.208.57.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:14:00 okk 22:14:13 what is it called when your instances all share a class variable 22:14:39 class allocation 22:15:59 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:16:16 hrm 22:16:39 clhs defclass 22:16:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defcla.htm 22:16:51 if methods dont 'belong' to classes, then classes in clos are just groupings of data? 22:17:22 quazimodo: Look over these -> http://www.dreamsongs.com/CLOS.html 22:17:26 hrmmmmm 22:17:29 interesting 22:17:53 ThomasH: did you do that? 22:18:03 quazimodo: Do what? 22:18:13 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 22:18:26 quazimodo: also inheritance, metaclasses, etc, all sorts of things that distinguish them from, say a hash table. 22:18:40 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:18:52 unusual XD 22:22:11 antoszka: there's SETQ for variables. SETF uses SETQ to set variables. SETQ is a special operator. SETF is a macro. SET is a function. What he means is that to set lexical variables, you cannot use a function like SET, you need to use a special operator like SETQ (even thru SETF). But in less words. 22:22:50 I can understand why you're not happy about it. That's why I read reference manuals or standards, not tutorials. 22:22:52 pjb: well, yeah, but I found that a suprising oversimplification (still, I love the book) 22:24:49 antoszka: there are also a lot of people who think lisp is more than just Common Lisp. And indeed it is. 22:25:23 So when speaking or reading about lisp, you can find a lot of things that are not exactly or entirely true in CL and vice versa. 22:27:58 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: good night/dobranoc] 22:29:13 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 22:30:35 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: .] 22:30:47 drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 22:31:15 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 22:31:27 -!- Nisstyre_ [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:30 pjb: Sure, though PAIP deals with CL specifically. Hence my surprises. 22:35:06 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has quit [Client Quit] 22:37:56 -!- booguie [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:40:03 sabalaba [~Adium@2602:306:cfc8:8c30:d1a:3433:517d:d0d8] has joined #lisp 22:40:28 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-235-174.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:54 -!- kanedank [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:21 s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-204-126.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:38 kanedank [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:33 -!- kanedank [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:58 kanedank [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:30 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:46:39 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:15 I don't really know how to put this, but has anyone had trouble with a special variable being nil when used in a function unless you do something like (print *var*) before? 22:47:34 No. 22:47:41 code in question: https://github.com/jsmpereira/heroku-cl-example/blob/master/src/hello-world.lisp 22:48:20 when (db-params) is called at the end of the file, it breaks because the *database-url* appears to be nil 22:48:44 but if I for instance do a print of the var before the call to postmodern, it works. Really confusing 22:48:59 Kenjin: have you read clhs defvar ? 22:49:42 not recently no 22:49:57 Your defvar doesn't do what you think it does. 22:50:00 You can use CL with Heroku? 22:50:04 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:04 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:50:04 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 22:50:55 didi: yes 22:51:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:51:25 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@206.16.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:25 p_l: Nice. Why don't they say it on their documentation? Is it new? 22:51:35 Kenjin: also, hunchentoot uses threads. 22:51:58 pjb: I see 22:52:15 didi: it's a custom buildpack 22:52:22 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:25 Bike: oic 22:52:26 didi: they do, in the 3rd party builpacks 22:52:36 didi: https://github.com/mtravers/heroku-buildpack-cl 22:52:39 Kenjin: I guess I never went that far. 22:52:46 pavelpenev: Thanks. 22:52:49 didi: https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/third-party-buildpacks 22:53:41 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:53:56 dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-18-227.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:09 Kenjin: Hey, there is an elnode pack. Cool. 22:54:30 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has left #lisp 22:54:44 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:06 Nisstyre_ [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 22:55:20 pjb: what is defvar doing in this context then that along with hunchentoot threading breaks the code? 22:55:59 -!- kanedank [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:56:12 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:51 pjb: the side effects bit on clhs? 22:58:53 defvar assigns the value only if the variable doesn't have a value already. 22:58:57 asvil [~asvil@178.121.6.112] has joined #lisp 22:59:35 Special variables may or may not be local to threads. There's probably a variable in hunchentoot to specify what to do with special variables when it creates a new thread. 23:00:34 pjb: I supposed the variable didn't have a value already, as that is the only place I set it 23:00:52 In interactive development, you never know. 23:01:52 pjb: What would be the best way to handle this? 23:02:05 see about the hunchentoot options? 23:02:11 Yes. 23:02:20 And restart the lisp image. 23:02:27 sorry, small quick question, cl read makes only one way parsing, so I can not do something like '("key" #1# '("another-key" #1=("value"))), is it? 23:02:42 pjb: Will do. thanks for the help. 23:02:43 yes. 23:02:49 '("key" #1=("value") '("another-key" #1#)) 23:03:41 thx 23:04:04 Hehe, "memory leak" is a scam perpetrated by Big Memory to sell us more hardware. I've being /leaking/ for days and I'm still here. Take that! 23:05:57 pjb: http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/#handle-request 23:07:17 didi: considering that I used to do all my computing tasks with just 256mb of ram, and now 8x that seems small, maybe there is some truth to that. But then again, I didn't know how to misuse a computer by programming it back when I only had 256 megs, and people didn't know about ajax too :) 23:07:57 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 23:08:02 booguie [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:04 Kenjin: how does it work after a restart? 23:09:20 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.6.112] has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:09:49 And there wasn't a ton of differnet programming languages du jour, so you needed only one compiler and one set of libraries. 23:10:35 pjb: still trying to figure out how to use it 23:12:18 Use defparameter instead of defvar and try again. 23:13:30 pjb: will that be enough. I believe I've tried that with no success. I'll try again 23:14:11 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:16:43 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-149-100.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:16:58 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:13 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-149-100.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:46 pjb: just using defparameter is not enough it seems 23:23:40 pjb: I could simply use lexical scoping, no? 23:24:38 aslan69 [~aslan69@c-75-71-21-183.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:28 Sure. But it should work as it is. 23:26:31 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:28:17 pjb: I can see in the logs that (heroku-getenv) is retrieving the correct value, however the special variable inside (db-params) shows up as nil 23:29:23 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-65-215.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:30:06 pjb: I've added some logging to the function http://paste.lisp.org/display/131519 23:30:51 the first output is a list of nil, the second as I mentioned prints the correct value for the DATABASE_URL env variable 23:32:06 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-145-252.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:33:41 -!- paul0 [~paul0@200.175.60.11.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:38 Kenjin: Why don't you log *database-url*? 23:36:16 pjb: I have. The moment I do, the code stops breaking 23:37:02 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-50-228.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:39:25 -!- tali713 [~user@c-24-118-58-11.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:49 -!- lolsuper_ [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:40:23 lolsuper_ [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:23 -!- lolsuper_ [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:40:24 lolsuper_ [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:41:52 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: http://www.redeclipse.net -- Fast-paced online FPS] 23:42:06 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-18-227.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:46 Hiding the ugliness of C and working only with Lisp is very satisfying. 23:44:36 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:45:01 pjb: that is what I have been trying to figure out. Why does it break passing *database-url* to cl-ppcre:split, but doesn't if at some point I do (print *database-url*) 23:46:27 Kenjin: http://paste.lisp.org/display/131519#1 23:47:54 VieiraN [~VieiraN@189.68.255.110] has joined #lisp 23:48:34 Kenjin: http://paste.lisp.org/display/131519#2 23:49:47 I can't find an explanation for this behavior 23:50:18 http://paste.lisp.org/display/131519#3 23:50:25 It works well here. 23:51:52 can it be something with sbcl? 23:52:08 I'm using ccl. 23:52:16 atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:30 I noticed. I'm using sbcl 1.0.54 23:52:59 tali713 [~user@c-24-118-58-11.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:04 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has joined #lisp 23:56:44 me__ [~me_@cpc6-bexl7-2-0-cust173.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:56:55 -!- me__ changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) pro/gramming language . New: Drakma 1.2.7, Hunchentoot 1.2.4, SBCL 1.0.58, ABCL 1.0.1, CMUCL 20c 23:57:01 -!- me__ changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Drakma 1.2.7, Hunchentoot 1.2.4, SBCL 1.0.58, ABCL 1.0.1, CMUCL 20c 23:57:05 sorry 23:58:14 -!- me__ [~me_@cpc6-bexl7-2-0-cust173.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #lisp