00:00:08 i forgot about this, despite recently had experience installing java on linux server in order to build ABCL 00:00:20 ... boatload? 00:00:22 Sure. That's why there's clisp if you prefer to instal a boatload of C crap, or ccl if you prefer to load a boatload of lisp crap. 00:00:35 -!- paul0 [~paul0@201.86.67.162.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 00:00:37 ... ah. I forgot that stasssats went straight to "only work in CL nirvana" 00:00:51 try building something with maven, see it download half the internet 00:03:38 stassats has sent a number of fantastically helpful patches for abcl, so it's not like he has not used it. 00:04:14 well, i actually haven't used abcl for anything real, other than just testing code 00:05:04 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 00:05:04 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:05:56 -!- sambio is now known as sambio_ 00:06:49 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 00:06:49 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:06:53 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 00:09:34 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 00:09:34 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:09:53 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:10:36 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:11:25 papajustify [~slugged@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:04 -!- vlion [~vlion@68-24-131-29.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 00:15:18 Xach: I'm not saying he didn't. It's just that, comparatively speaking, ABCL is nice & easy to install 00:15:37 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:15:48 well, i don't have use for java for anything else 00:17:04 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:49 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:01 -!- kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee] 00:24:13 -!- helmetk_ [~textual@166.Red-88-15-120.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:26:39 -!- lucca [~lucca@kuu.accela.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:13 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 00:34:09 -!- Nisstyre_ [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34:36 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 00:36:08 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:36:37 yours_truly [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:41 Nisstyre_ [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:15 -!- yours_truly [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:37:58 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 00:39:09 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:41:35 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:42:02 ArmyOfBruce [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 00:42:35 dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 00:42:35 -!- dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:47:05 dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 00:47:05 -!- dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:47:17 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:57 -!- jeti [~user@p548EB1A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:50:52 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:53:54 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@200-171-134-72.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:58:53 I have just started fresh recompilation and loading of all the ASDF systems found in quicklisp by 7 CL compilers 00:59:12 to collect results about what builds and what doesn't 00:59:20 are you trying to increase entropy in the universe? 00:59:29 to decrease 00:59:50 dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 00:59:50 -!- dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:00:00 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-170-145.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:01:02 breaking the laws of thermodynamics, i see 01:01:18 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:01:22 stassats: to decrease in the sense that if I know what builds, I can run it this test regulary and compare results and so detect any regressions in whole QL 01:04:27 stassats: i.e. to make the workability of the libraries less random 01:05:13 Xach does compile everything before releasing, only not on all implementations 01:05:23 by SBCL only 01:05:42 trying to compile things on, say, ABCL would prove to be a frustrating experience 01:07:00 for library developers and abcl authors - maybe, but not for me (i am very unbiased) 01:07:21 what would you do with that information? 01:07:42 publish it 01:08:09 people are interested in results, Juan Jose of ECL asked what compiles and what doesn't 01:08:27 isn't that what cl-test-grid is for? 01:08:30 what's interesting about results? 01:09:03 now, if you were going to file bug-reports or patches, that's much better 01:09:12 he wants to sort libraries by dependencies, and so find root blockers (failing ASDF systems, which also block other systems) 01:09:48 i.e. to see what systems is the most important to fix so that more code work on ECL 01:10:13 stassats: yes, i am going to submit bug reports when detect regressions 01:10:19 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 01:10:26 Bike: yes it is 01:11:30 sounds like it's better to fix all the bugs 01:11:33 i have just modified cl-test-grid code collect results of loading every library 01:12:19 stassats: yes, but there are too many bugs now and it's impossible to just go and report all of them, + some of the bugs are old and authors are not available to fix (busy or not interested) 01:12:45 -!- cmm- [~cmm@109.67.190.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:12:50 fork it then! 01:12:54 stassats: in case of regressions it's fresh change so authors are more likely ot be available and interested to fix 01:12:57 cmm [~cmm@109.67.190.224] has joined #lisp 01:13:39 stassats: myself? for one person it's infinity amount of work to fix every bug 01:13:43 stassats, you don't seem to have a pragmatic view. Most people don't have the time or expertise to fix all of the compilation bugs for all systems. 01:14:33 if fixing bugs it would be good to decide what libraries are more important 01:15:10 Quadrescence: that doesn't sound like a good excuse 01:15:12 there are lot of bugs, but some of the deserve to be fixed (e.g. usocket, drakma, alexandria and similar base libraries) 01:15:43 arizo [~arizao@109.78.20.36] has joined #lisp 01:30:18 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-159-130.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:32:36 -!- lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:34:18 CrLF0710 [~user@222.63.99.203] has joined #lisp 01:36:12 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has joined #lisp 01:38:01 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.221.122] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 01:40:51 agumonkey [~agu@249.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:06 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 01:41:55 -!- arizo [~arizao@109.78.20.36] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:42:44 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-19-235.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 01:43:03 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-19-235.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:07 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:45:51 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:47:31 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:52:39 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:53:03 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:55:43 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:55:57 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:01:24 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has joined #lisp 02:10:51 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.190.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:11:04 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-190-224.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:44 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-69-234.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 02:19:18 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 02:25:09 pinterface [~pinterfac@173-22-15-5.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:25:57 -!- agumonkey [~agu@249.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:27:57 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:47 -!- quasisan1 [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:36:59 quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 02:40:50 VieiraN [~VieiraN@200-171-134-72.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:48:56 ASau` [~user@95-26-226-160.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 02:49:09 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:49:28 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.77.61.109] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:49:39 CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:52:54 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-169-252.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:54:57 vlion [~vlion@68-24-131-29.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:58:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@195.114.243.180] has joined #lisp 02:58:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@195.114.243.180] has quit [Changing host] 02:58:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 02:58:18 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:59:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 03:03:14 -!- benny [~user@i577A74A3.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:03:35 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-69-234.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 03:05:53 -!- vlion [~vlion@68-24-131-29.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 03:09:18 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 03:12:37 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:13:28 benny [~user@i577A7C9B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 03:13:35 Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 03:15:51 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483BFF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:45 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:17:30 reactormonk [~freak@cpe-70-113-86-124.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:17:40 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A510.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:19:40 For tinkering with a new language, I sometimes like to write tests and code in the same file and then run them all at once - what kind of libs for testing would you recommend? the simpler, the better 03:20:08 ... until a certain limit 03:20:34 reactormonk: I like the one described in PCL: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-building-a-unit-test-framework.html 03:20:52 It has 26 LOC. 03:21:34 reactormonk: I write: (defun test/something () (assert (equal 'some-result (do-something)))  :success) 03:21:36 reactormonk: Although if your intention is "tinkering", the REPL is already pretty awesome. 03:21:51 then just: (test/something) to test something. 03:21:53 didi: I'd like some editor support as in emacs 03:22:03 0 LOC! 03:22:08 http://www.cliki.net/test%20framework quite a few of them exist, not as many as utility libraries though :) 03:23:06 didi: yeah, PCL looks good, except I'd like it without the explicit combine-results 03:23:49 reactormonk: I see. Well, I just type crap in the REPL. 03:24:31 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 03:24:50 didi: get annoying after a while. 03:24:57 NEVER! 03:25:25 reactormonk: if you're just tinkering, as you say, you'll be fine. 03:25:49 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 03:26:10 didi: :-P 03:27:14 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:27:34 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 03:28:01 rt is another simple one. I'm not aware of a test library with extensive emacs integration, assuming that you meant that in particular and already use slime 03:30:20 minion: stefil? 03:30:26 stefil: Stefil is a test framework, and its philosophy is to stay as transparent as possible, disrupting the normal Lisp application development process as little as possible. http://www.cliki.net/stefil 03:30:27 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:31:46 xwolf- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 03:31:58 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 03:32:17 what was that test framework that uses docstrings for testing purposes? 03:35:41 guyal_ [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:56 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:37:57 -!- guyal_ is now known as guyal 03:40:17 sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@195.114.243.180] has joined #lisp 03:41:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@195.114.243.180] has quit [Changing host] 03:41:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:52:39 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:53:35 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 03:54:05 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:06:39 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:07:11 -!- xwolf- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 04:07:13 xwolf-: that would be a bad test framework. 04:08:09 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:08:23 xwolf- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 04:09:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:13:45 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@200-171-134-72.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:14:00 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.104.101] has joined #lisp 04:20:10 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.190.12] has joined #lisp 04:26:05 So it turns out one /can/ use `define-foreign-type' of CFFI as a `defclass' with privileges. I hope this doesn't blow up later. 04:26:42 pjb why? 04:26:46 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:43:57 -!- papajustify [~slugged@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 04:46:46 xwolf-: if you wanted to adjoin the test cases to the definition of the function, it would be better to do so with a declaration. 04:47:53 (declaim (declaration test-case)) (defun f (x) (declare (test-case (eql 1 (f 1)) (forall n (integer 1) (eql (* n (f (1- n))) (f n))))) ) 04:48:13 s/integer 1/integer 2/ 04:50:27 pjb interesting 04:52:26 with docstrings though it could double as documentation, in the example section 04:54:44 The declarations can also be processed by a documentation generator. 04:56:50 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:09:28 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 05:11:43 Is it possible to make `princ' print in a new line? 05:11:58 (princ #\Newline) 05:12:12 stassats: Thanks. 05:12:22 or just (terpri) 05:12:48 or just write-line for strings 05:13:05 `terpri'. That's new for me. 05:13:22 Ah, `write-line' is more appropriate for me right now. 05:14:56 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 05:16:11 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:16:14 Yay, I recreated GTK's "hello, world", with the exception of 'swap', which doesn't seem fun for such toy. 05:17:41 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:20:29 Now I have to read about 'trivial-garbage' as I'm leaking like I don't even care. 05:20:49 how would you name your new gtk bindings? 05:21:21 stassats-gem 05:21:46 but that's completely misleading 05:21:52 :^( 05:23:27 pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:24:32 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:32:19 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:33:32 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 05:33:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 05:33:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:34:18 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:34:44 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:23 I suppose emacs + slime is a way to go? 05:36:41 reactormonk: The best way to fly. 05:37:10 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:37:28 :D 05:38:12 flutter :) 05:38:13 didi: what are the default key chains I need for my workflow above? 05:39:32 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 05:39:50 reactormonk: Well, I have in my ~/.emacs 05:40:11 reactormonk: Look for paredit too. 05:42:35 got that already 05:47:30 I'll probably rebind 05:47:55 mritz [~textual@cpe-66-25-166-122.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:48:20 reactormonk: Are you a VIM user? 05:48:57 C-c C-k (slime-compile-and-load-file) will be the big one. M-n/M-p cycles through the compiler notes as you would expect 05:49:11 *didi* uses C-c C-c all the time 05:49:27 didi: I'm an evil user 05:49:32 reactormonk: oic 05:50:20 didi: oic? 05:50:38 Oh I see. :^) 05:51:04 reactormonk: that's curable 05:51:33 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:52:01 stassats: nah, I like being evil 05:55:03 -!- mritz [~textual@cpe-66-25-166-122.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:58:00 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:58:20 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 06:00:43 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has left #lisp 06:02:33 teggi [~teggi@113.172.54.215] has joined #lisp 06:05:09 -!- sambio_ [~cc@190.57.227.107] has quit [] 06:08:15 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:12:25 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:15:15 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.197.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:19:07 pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 06:20:02 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8566e1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:24 papajustify [~slugged@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:38 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 06:22:39 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 06:22:39 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 06:23:19 If I messed up with `defclass' and `initialize-instance', how can I make Lisp forget them? I'm not sure, but apparently `make-instance' is calling some old form of a CLOS class. 06:24:49 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.21.4] has joined #lisp 06:25:57 It's not `fmakunbound'. 06:26:06 unintern works 06:26:12 (setf (find-class ...) nil)? 06:26:32 unintern is easier 06:26:47 probably. 06:27:18 Oh right! 06:27:23 Thank you. 06:28:17 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 06:28:42 Restarting Lisp was getting very tiring. 06:32:45 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: sudden death] 06:34:48 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 06:37:30 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 06:42:02 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 06:42:23 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:47:29 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 06:51:06 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-49.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:51:53 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ...] 06:52:49 dan_dan__ [~dan@gateway/tor-sasl/dan] has joined #lisp 06:54:15 -!- dan [~dan@gateway/tor-sasl/dan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:05:52 Vivitron`: Thanks for the C-c C-k. It's my new C-c C-c. 07:08:50 -!- magnificrab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:09:06 magnificrab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has joined #lisp 07:13:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:14:31 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 07:18:10 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-015-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:51 didi: just remap? 07:22:42 reactormonk: Nah, I like both and they are both easy to hit. 07:22:54 didi: C-c C-c is better than C-c C-k most of the time 07:23:30 stassats: Sure. But I'm doing a lot of query-replace and C-c C-k is very handy. 07:25:02 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 07:28:03 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:31:25 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.45] has joined #lisp 07:32:51 -!- papajustify [~slugged@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 07:32:55 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 07:39:22 papajustify [~slugged@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:54 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 07:44:11 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:45:09 xscc [~xscc@113.200.106.214] has joined #lisp 07:47:09 -!- xscc [~xscc@113.200.106.214] has quit [Client Quit] 07:52:36 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.164.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:53:10 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:53:40 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.164.45] has joined #lisp 07:57:56 hm, trying to figure how to use sb-ext:run-program with gnuplot, so that gnuplots 'pause -1' works, i.e. user can interact with the graph and then press a key to get to the next one ... 07:58:03 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 07:59:23 trebor_dki: You can open it with streams. 07:59:57 (sb-ext:run-program path-to-gnuplot gnuplot-script-fname :wait t :input t :pty t) <-> *standard-input*? 08:00:11 :input :stream 08:00:15 :output :stream 08:00:55 didi: thanks, testing 08:01:03 trebor_dki: Be careful that if you don't use `force-output', things will freeze. 08:02:21 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:00 bitonic [~user@host86-138-142-11.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:04:42 didi: hm, sorry, didn't understand :stream and force-output ... googling. 08:05:26 trebor_dki: `force-output' is like flush. 08:05:34 googling? what will google tell you? 08:06:28 clhs force-output 08:06:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_finish.htm 08:07:18 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 08:09:08 didi: i tried (sb-ext:run-program path-to-gnuplot gnuplot-script-fname :wait t :input :stream :output :stream :pty t), but obviously this was wrong (as i did not find anything about :stream in http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Running-external-programs.html 08:09:41 clearly, using :streams with :wait t is pointless 08:10:33 why? 08:10:44 trebor_dki: Because you don't want to wait. 08:11:18 trebor_dki: what are you trying to do? 08:12:19 i created a gnuplot-script to generate some diagrams, but the user has to change x-range y-range to polish the graphs (normaly i do this by using pause -1 and a replot afterwards) 08:12:51 after that the program creates a openoffice-document including the diagrams 08:13:18 what do you want to do with run-program? 08:13:25 so, i really would like to wait until gnuplot is finished. 08:13:36 run-program starts gnuplot. 08:13:47 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.33.42] has joined #lisp 08:13:54 who would've thought! 08:15:21 is run-program the wrong way in this case? 08:15:55 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has joined #lisp 08:17:29 in which case? you haven't told what are you trying to do yet 08:19:10 you use run-program, it demonstrates some behaviour, you want it to behave in another way, describe it 08:19:38 -!- Yuuhi`` is now known as Yuuhi 08:20:25 i hoped (wrongly) that gnuplots terminal io could be redirected to the repl, but as i see your questions this seems to be bascially wrong. 08:20:30 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:22:08 so creating control-stream and then (sb-ext:run-program path-to-gnuplot gnuplot-script-fname :wait nil :input gnuplot-input-stream :output gnuplot-output-stream :pty t)? 08:22:42 (sb-ext:run-program "gnuplot" '(parameters) :search t :input t :output t) will redirect the output and input 08:23:55 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:26:12 oh my, it is in the *inferior-lisp* (...) thanks 08:35:16 stassats: thanks, (i tried :input t before, but was looking in the slime-repl-buffer). 08:38:15 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:40:00 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:42:21 whois stassats 08:43:16 sorry need some coffee 08:44:42 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:49:40 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:50:18 lcc [~lcc@71-32-105-225.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:18 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8566e1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:52:37 -!- lcc [~lcc@71-32-105-225.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:56:02 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8566e1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:00 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-125-214.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote 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[~Beetny@ppp118-208-48-236.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:03:04 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 11:07:09 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 11:08:22 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:11:21 Guthur [~user@host31-53-72-82.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:12:56 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-159-130.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 11:13:49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPPEAcDCnSg 11:13:56 um, wrong channel 11:14:02 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 11:14:29 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 11:14:38 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-159-130.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:15:07 wuehli [~wuehlmaus@freeshell.de] has joined #lisp 11:17:42 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-159-130.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:02 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] 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has joined #lisp 11:47:45 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8566e1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:54 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 11:47:54 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 11:47:54 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:52:13 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-59-71.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 11:55:22 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:55:42 woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 11:58:11 -!- kanru [~kanru@189.120.163.135] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:42 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:56 -!- lcc [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 12:02:37 /? 12:04:08 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-228-215.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:37 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-145-167.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:10:31 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:17:03 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 12:22:21 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:22:56 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:24:59 oh man, my #x1D400 to #x1D77F unicode range is screwed in sbcl 12:26:24 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:26:44 like this http://paste.lisp.org/display/131200 12:27:42 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:27:42 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:27:59 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 12:28:30 it's actually displaying like this http://picpaste.de/pics/test-uni-IH3iguzH.1345897685.png 12:28:42 and it got converted via copy-paste somehow.... 12:31:35 Looks more like a terminal problem 12:32:56 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.190.12] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 12:32:56 hmmm, TERM=xterm on konsole 12:33:13 and kbd is in ascii mod 12:33:22 not utf or unicode 12:36:07 Hm, i don't know what kbd is. But sbcl will send characters encoded in probably utf-8 to the terminal. If the terminal does not understand utf-8 or is set to latin-1 or something similar it will mess everything up. 12:36:25 lcc [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 12:38:06 Although it seems the other unicode characters are displayed correctly. So maybe your font does not have characters for code points in the 1D400-1D7FF range? 12:38:27 ahh, so the terminal is not in utf-8 mode by default on my system 12:38:39 that maybe too 12:38:49 but i wonder why the partial output then! 12:38:57 and the stutterings 12:39:20 "A"" "BB" ?? for example... 12:39:38 tho the copy-pasted thing is displaying them correctly again 12:40:27 Hm, yes. Well 1D400 is more than 16 bits. So maybe your terminal is buggy and cannot handle code points over FFFF correctly? Because of the copy paste being correct, it seems that the generated byte sequence by SBCL is correct. 12:40:38 is anyone able to get to that file here http://static.boinkor.net/lisp/font-hackery.lisp 12:41:05 yes seems so 12:41:27 but it's konsole from kde, with default settings.... 12:41:35 didn't do anything fancy with it 12:41:44 Nope, I cannot access the url, it just waits until it times out 12:42:10 Also, I have never used KDE and haven't used linux in ages. So I cannot help you there. 12:42:33 ok then it's not just me 12:42:44 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 12:44:40 Sorry I cannot help you, but honestly, I am not suprised that programs have bugs handling code points larger than FFFF 12:45:46 yeah, it works in the browser but no in terminals....weird.... 12:48:30 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:49:17 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:49:25 [SLB]` [~slabua@host237-160-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:49:46 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 12:49:47 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host237-160-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 12:49:47 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 12:50:01 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:51:33 -!- sepuku [~spk@dsl-aav0mz.dyn.edudsl.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:52:57 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.108.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 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joined #lisp 14:08:10 -!- ASau` [~user@95-26-226-160.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:08:21 xfce's terminal is always display them like in the browser 14:08:53 only some glyphs are missing obviously... 14:09:42 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:13:37 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-1dcce155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:17:28 bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 14:18:41 like here http://picpaste.de/pics/test-uni1-hvAgQwfD.1345904293.png 14:20:29 Natch [~Natch@c-1dcce155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:22:13 So the world makes sense again? 14:23:28 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-132-229.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:25:21 francogrex [~user@109.130.113.182] has joined #lisp 14:26:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-49.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:27:18 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:28:55 -!- mritz [~textual@cpe-66-25-166-122.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:29:31 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:31:03 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:32:29 no not yet 14:34:02 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:27 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-136-137.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:02 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:41:54 -!- bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 14:42:37 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.21.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:18 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:45:13 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:47:41 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-125-214.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 14:52:00 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:53:41 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:54:11 wbooze: now it's only missing characters in fonts. 14:54:35 If you add fonts or switch to a more unicode-complete font, it should display the missing characters. 14:56:36 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-noinfoxtjhxzqxbz] has joined #lisp 15:00:46 i tried to switch to -misc-unifont-**** blah but somehow it does not work anymore.... 15:01:12 terminus is a font with a lot of unicode covered, and designed for many hours of terminal work (lisping) per day :) 15:02:32 -gnu-unifont is more complete they say, but i only found a size 13 version of it on my slack 15:02:39 eww 15:02:44 yep 15:03:44 this is a bit off-topic, but ensure your font path is specified in xorg.conf, then run fc-cache -v, and (possibly?) restart X to pick up the changes 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the world, Open the nExt] 16:57:06 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-69-234.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 16:57:20 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:35 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:01:05 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-noinfoxtjhxzqxbz] has quit [Quit: steffi_s] 17:01:11 [SLB]` [~slabua@host237-160-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:01:32 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 17:01:33 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host237-160-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 17:01:33 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 17:01:56 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@200-171-134-72.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:02:31 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:04:46 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:07:49 you guys were right, I rewrote my article on Lisp today and I feel it's better 17:08:46 dude, that wrap new font around clim-clx fonts does not work for me anymore.... 17:11:57 ASau [~user@95-26-226-160.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 17:12:00 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:57 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:22 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-rmdqwpxpgnmlixle] has joined #lisp 17:14:08 kushal [~kdas@114.143.160.54] has joined #lisp 17:14:08 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.160.54] has quit [Changing host] 17:14:09 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:15:15 -!- Daisy [Eile@host-95-195-27-149.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:16:04 fourier [~fourier@fsf/member/fourier] has joined #lisp 17:21:24 kanru [~kanru@189.120.165.40] has joined #lisp 17:21:44 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 17:22:02 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has joined #lisp 17:23:42 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:25:02 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 17:25:41 tijn [~tijn@ip4dab3311.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 17:26:17 -!- tijn [~tijn@ip4dab3311.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:52 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.104.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:21 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:27:41 -!- hamada [~hamada@41.140.101.221] has left #lisp 17:29:22 -!- piko [~piko@ip4-83-240-108-205.cust.nbox.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:29:25 tijn [~tijn@ip4dab3311.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 17:31:51 ghast` [~user@host83.190-30-155.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:33:17 -!- tijn [~tijn@ip4dab3311.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 17:33:19 -!- ghast [~user@host83.190-30-155.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:33:31 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has joined #lisp 17:34:43 -!- kanru [~kanru@189.120.165.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:37:26 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:38:50 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 17:39:21 ivan-kanis: imagine how much better would it be if you rewrite it again 17:40:13 I let it sit for two weeks but I don't think I'll rewrite the whole thing, I am not a masochist. 17:40:56 I sent and e-mail to Ron Garret to get permission to quote him 17:41:22 quoting is fair use, you don't need permissions 17:44:13 -!- setmeaway [stemearay@119.201.52.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:45:31 blbef [~chatzilla@089144206241.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:40 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has joined #lisp 17:50:19 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:16 Daisy [Dfous@host-78-78-231-1.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:53:03 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:02:53 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 18:04:00 Forty-3 [~seana11@198.24.31.70] has joined #lisp 18:04:24 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:05:15 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:06:58 -!- yCrazyEdd [~pudent@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:07:22 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:08:48 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 18:11:32 lammb [~user@host86-180-115-205.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:13:51 When using slime & having no Internet connection, is the best way to access package docs either the slime inspector or slime-describe-* functions? Or am I missing some tricks? These pacakges were installed with quicklisp. 18:15:14 -!- Daisy [Dfous@host-78-78-231-1.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:15:34 how easy would it be to invoke SLIME functionality from a CL program? 18:16:49 what do you want? there's a lot in the swank system, and then there's eval-in-emacs. 18:17:40 lammb: What fails if you do not have an internet connection? 18:19:18 woudshoo: The ability to access webpages, i.e., I only have local docs, which isn't so much of a problem in Lisp I'm finding compared to other languages. 18:19:19 Guthur: what slime functionality? 18:20:01 woudshoo: Basically, I'd like a sanity check that I'm not being overly clumsy with my use of the doc facilities in slime/Lisp generally. 18:20:15 Bike, stassats: M-. for one 18:20:31 I'm thinking of a game editor where I can jump to code behind an entity 18:20:41 things of that ilk 18:20:57 lammb: Hm, yes, I think this is still an area up for improving. I feel clumsy in such a situation too. I either use describe and apropos. But what I also do a lot is look if there is a doc directory in the installed package. 18:22:23 lammb: For the last point, I typically do M-. on a symbol in the package (that at least opens a buffer near the right directory) and navigate from there. This should be easier, but (un)fortunately, there is no standardized documentation system outside of docstrings. 18:23:00 Daisy [Eile@host-95-195-17-79.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:23:14 yCrazyEdd [~chirology@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 18:23:25 Guthur: easy enough: just a small google search away: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Apaste.lisp.org+pjb+slime+rpc 18:23:31 so basically I would like to be able to interactively design 'levels' within the game environment but I do not want to totally detach myself from emacs 18:23:41 woudshoo: Ah, thanks for the help. The system is fine for my needs, just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some more convienient. (-: 18:24:41 pjb: neat, thanks 18:25:13 lammb: Well, we both might be missing something :-) I haven't really searched hard for a better mechanism. 18:30:43 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 18:31:12 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 18:31:37 Anyone else get unformated error messages with slime/sbcl? This like Evaluation aborted on . Is there something wrong with my env? Why isn't the ~S getting substituted? 18:32:17 put the whole error message right after the first error on a pastebin 18:32:30 else nobody will be able to help you 18:32:43 After quitting the debugger, the following one-liner is printed: 18:32:45 ; Evaluation aborted on #. 18:33:12 how did you quit it ? 18:33:30 By pressing 'q' 18:33:32 0 or :0 ? 18:33:38 huh ? 18:33:49 q ? 18:33:59 Yes, the letter. 18:34:11 lammb: that's normal, I think 18:34:13 q quits many things in slime 18:34:19 if you want the actual error you have to return it 18:34:24 ah you in slime ok 18:34:51 Bike: Grr. Thanks! 18:36:51 l1sp [~user@c-107-4-154-9.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:27 -!- ghast` is now known as ghast 18:38:03 -!- l1sp [~user@c-107-4-154-9.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:51 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 18:39:17 l1sp [~user@c-107-4-154-9.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:29 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:42:44 helmetk_ [~textual@166.Red-88-15-120.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:37 does anyone know the font-hackery.lisp file or has it to be pasted somehowere for me ? 18:45:51 cause my around methods seems todo nothing 18:47:07 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:09 cause i can't get to print the same chars in clim-listener like this http://picpaste.de/pics/test-uni2-vzFyBjDv.1345920394.png 18:48:27 you can use ~c to print chars directly 18:48:40 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-65-96-162-9.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:20 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.54.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:16 Bike: do you get me, it's working in the sbcl repl in terminal, but in in the repl in clim-listener 18:51:23 but not* 18:51:44 yes, but I know nothing about clim. 18:51:59 i'd assume it's a font issue, but trying to change the font several ways didn't succeed here, and if it were font issue why would it print the other ranges ? 18:52:04 but just not that one ? 18:53:17 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:57 it's working for the other range for example like here http://picpaste.de/pics/test-uni3-zGL85AS2.1345920810.png 18:55:53 -!- helmetk_ [~textual@166.Red-88-15-120.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: [Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/]] 18:56:41 jao [~user@164.Red-83-32-68.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:59 -!- jao [~user@164.Red-83-32-68.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:56:59 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #lisp 19:02:37 wbooze: there is a difference between the two ranges. The case that does not work needs 4 bytes (in utf-8) to encode the values. The other do not need that much. So if the receiver/displayer is a bit old (before they thought more than FFFF characters are a good idea) it might misinterprete the byte sequences. 19:03:08 oh 19:03:14 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-65-96-162-9.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:46 -!- yCrazyEdd [~chirology@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:04:35 it even prints the names of the glyphs like #\blah when i'm only using (code-char num) and not (string (code-char num)) in that loop 19:04:48 just not the glyphs themselves... 19:05:35 -!- Daisy [Eile@host-95-195-17-79.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:05:46 Daisy [Daisy@host-95-195-23-107.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:00 would changing the default-external-format of the gui to utf-8 alter something in that regard ? 19:07:21 wbooze: Well, first of all, it seems that the display part and the lisp printing part seem to agree on the encoding. Otherwise your other range would be messed up. 19:07:40 yes 19:07:59 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-86-44.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:08:03 wbooze: there are basically two options: 1 - you do not use utf-8, but UCS-2 in your clim case. 2 - you do use utf-8 in the climm case 19:08:31 hmm, ok i'll try now 19:08:51 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 19:09:02 wbooze: Now in case 1 you can have better luck with setting it to utf-8. HOWEVER, there are two sides wich both need to speak utf-8. So the terminal or display part also need to be changed to utf-8. 19:09:49 wbooze: If you are in case 2. You are probably out of luck. You can try utf-16. But I wuld not expect it to work. 19:10:06 erm, kbd_mode tells me it's already in utf-8 mode and i have a lang env var set to de_DE.UTF-8 19:10:32 only lc_collate is C 19:10:40 all other locales utf-8 19:11:04 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:11:07 wbooze: What is kbd_mode? (lc_collate should not matter) Your listener is inside a xterm? 19:11:51 no, only the sbcl repl is, from there i start the listener 19:12:24 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-31-247.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:12:47 kbd_mode utf8 means key-presses are sent as utf-8 encoded i think 19:13:19 phrixos [U2FsdGVkX1@unaffiliated/phrixos] has joined #lisp 19:14:22 wbooze: so kbd_mode does not matter in this case. Where does the listener live? 19:14:40 it's a clx app ! 19:14:45 so X env 19:15:27 WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-223-226-42.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:50 wbooze: Hm, yes, so that means that clx cannot handle those characters (I think.) 19:16:42 wbooze: anyway, I just googled and it turns out that until very recently MySQL messed up the characters outside the BMP (base plane) even when stored in utf-8. 19:16:53 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 19:17:05 loreints` [~user@anon-164-62.vpn.ipredator.se] has joined #lisp 19:17:40 Does anyone know offhand how to export an entire package from a package? 19:17:45 yes, i read something about that in clx backend that i'm on my own when using anything else than iso-8859-1 19:17:58 wbooze: Aside: All unicode characters < FFFF are in the base plane (MBP) the characters that you are having trouble with are in plane 1 (unicode concepts.) And generally speaking only the MBP is relatively well supported. 19:18:36 yes, i got that too 19:18:40 -!- loreints [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:18:50 and there are fonts which cover upto 16 planes or so 19:19:22 the only font covering mbp totally is unifont 19:19:26 wbooze: But as you are finding out, having the fonts is only 1/3 of the equation 19:19:49 yes 19:19:49 WarWeasle: including all the symbols it imports...? 19:20:08 i think it's a restriction on the clx backend site even not by clx itself.... 19:20:57 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-69-234.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:21:47 Bike: Yes! 19:22:16 francogrex [~user@109.130.113.182] has joined #lisp 19:22:19 Bike: I'm using cairo from inside my package as if it were part of my package. 19:22:26 wbooze: i guess you have to ask on a clx mailing list. I have never used clx 19:22:36 ok 19:22:52 nvm, thank you for an attempt tho :) 19:22:55 WarWeasle: oh, then just use the package. (:use #:cairo) in your defpackage 19:23:07 it's a shame, shame, shame i tell you! 19:24:04 Bike: Does that export the symbols, too? 19:24:18 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.113.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:20 wbooze: good luck! clim is something i want to try one day, but it didn't work on my mac:-( 19:26:13 WarWeasle: No, it just modified the "inheritance chain" when resolving symbols from the package you use'd it from, IIUC. 19:26:18 oh 19:26:41 WarWeasle: hm, you might want (do-external-symbols (s :cairo) (export s :yourpackage))... I'm not sure. 19:27:46 Exporting _all_ the symbols seems wrong to me, though. All those helper functions polluting the namespace... 19:27:53 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-125-214.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:20 didi: I'm extending cairo with pangocairo. 19:28:21 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:28:32 didi: mine only does the external symbols 19:28:38 WarWeasle: You can all access intern symbols with :: 19:28:39 didi: do-external-symbols doesn't export *all* symbols, only external ones. 19:28:52 Bike: I think they want _all_ of them. 19:29:29 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Quit: ] 19:29:55 Bike: I just want Cairo's external symbols. I just don't want bounce between cairo: and qix:. I just want to use qix:. 19:30:10 Or maybe I misunderstood it. 19:30:11 I think mine should work, then 19:30:36 I still don't get why you'd want to export them if your extending Cairo. 19:30:37 Bike: Can I put that in my package file as a macro? 19:30:52 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 19:31:26 as a macro? 19:32:20 Bike: Or runtime. I just didn't think it was code. 19:32:27 Bike: Testing it now 19:32:34 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-69-234.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:33:29 -!- l1sp [~user@c-107-4-154-9.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:35:54 Ah, I think I understand it now. You want the symbols that you imported from a package appear to whoever import your package. 19:36:07 Bike: Look's like I'll just have a long package export. 19:36:17 didi: Yes, exactly. 19:36:21 Sorry. 19:37:00 USE is transitive, AFAIK. 19:37:14 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-69-234.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:37:55 -!- lcc [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:38:12 Bike: Please don't be. You just saved me HOURS with your external-symbols function 19:38:34 lammb: no, it's not. 19:38:42 lcc [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 19:38:47 Well, it seems semantically to be the case 19:39:11 When FIND-SYMBOL's second part is :inherited 19:39:20 use-package imports all the external symbols of the package as internal symbols, yeah? if warweasle wants to define a cairo interface that's not the needed behavior. 19:39:41 So, if WarWeasle USE'd Cairo in his Pango-whatever, the people USE'ing Pango-whatever could access cairo externs, right? 19:40:07 I thought that is how find-symbol is defined 19:40:12 lammb: Yes, without needing to remember which was cairo: and which was pango: 19:40:50 I must be on the wrong page.. Apologies. 19:41:16 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@198.24.31.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:41:44 Anyway, problem is solved! I'm off to fight some more windmills! 19:42:21 WarWeasle: It's dangerous to go alone. Take these () 19:43:57 didi: Elegant weapons...for a more civilized age. 19:47:24 Bike: You confuse me (apologies for all this confusion, I'm brand new to Lisp today). The CLHS says "All external symbols in packages-to-use become accessible in package as internal symbols." But that doesn't necessarily means they're imported, right? They just become available thru inheritance. 19:48:04 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:48:32 (in the case of USE-PACKAGE) 19:48:43 lammb: oh, you're right. 19:49:05 The using mechanism is separate from importation and all. My mistake. 19:51:23 And pkhuong, I mean if pkg B uses pkg C, and pkg A uses B, then semantically, A has used C, or have I misunderstood something? Can't tell if you ignored my continued ignorance, or were just being pedantic. 19:51:53 well, used symbols aren't (necessarily) exported. 19:52:38 Bike: Oh, of course. Thanks. 19:53:10 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:02:38 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-rmdqwpxpgnmlixle] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 20:03:40 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.190.12] has joined #lisp 20:04:52 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:05:35 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-yrrnoutrkqbqjtfy] has joined #lisp 20:06:15 piko [~piko@ip4-83-240-108-205.cust.nbox.cz] has joined #lisp 20:08:15 -!- Daisy [Daisy@host-95-195-23-107.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:52 Daisy [Dfous@host-78-78-152-81.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:13:02 Stop thinking about CL packages like ruddy Java classes and have your medicine. 20:19:32 -!- Daisy [Dfous@host-78-78-152-81.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:19:34 -!- drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:20:05 drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has joined #lisp 20:20:25 Daisy [Daisy@host-78-78-141-105.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:00 -!- Daisy [Daisy@host-78-78-141-105.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:33 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 20:26:51 tidux [~jon@c-24-61-183-110.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:12 I have a question about (run-program) in common lisp 20:27:39 yCrazyEdd [~cornerbin@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 20:28:00 if I use (run-program "w3m" :arguments '("file:///home/foo")) it works 20:28:13 but if I use (run-program "w3m" :arguments '("/home/foo")) it doesn't 20:28:27 Each implementation has its own variant of run-program. 20:28:33 it's clisp 20:28:35 What happens if, at the shell, you try w3m "/home/foo"? 20:28:41 It doesn't look like a lisp question, but a w3m question. 20:28:47 Have you ever read the manual of w3m??? 20:29:09 Sgeo: works fine from the shell 20:29:12 and yes, pjb 20:29:15 It doesn' tmatter. 20:29:19 it's not a lisp question. 20:29:24 I was having the same problem with lisp 20:29:28 er 20:29:29 less 20:29:30 or frotz 20:29:40 or any other program that takes a file name as an argument 20:30:06 -!- drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has quit [Quit: I'm finished!] 20:30:06 is there a portable way of running a program from lisp? 20:30:20 that's what I thought run-program was 20:30:27 (ext:run-program "w3m" :arguments '("/home/pjb")) works perfectly well in clisp. 20:30:34 huh 20:30:56 ghast: AFAIK, there are some things in some libraries, but nothing really complete. 20:31:10 I guess it's something to do with the program I'm launching it from, then 20:31:13 drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has joined #lisp 20:31:15 ok. 20:31:17 tidux: perhaps you're trying that in *inferior-lisp* or *slime-repl clisp* ? 20:31:18 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:31:20 nope 20:31:42 although it is being launched from an interactive program I'm writing 20:31:51 In my clisp in screen in xterm it works nicely. 20:32:03 so all the evidence points to a bug in my code 20:32:07 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-223-226-42.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:32:07 thanks guys 20:32:10 -!- tidux [~jon@c-24-61-183-110.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:32:11 How interactive is it? Does it work in a terminal? 20:36:17 -!- yCrazyEdd [~cornerbin@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:39:40 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Out of this 3D] 20:40:18 -!- lammb [~user@host86-180-115-205.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 20:45:01 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 20:45:19 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 20:51:17 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:43 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8566e1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:11 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:52:35 -!- pjb is now known as Guest88426 20:53:01 -!- Guest88426 is now known as pjb 20:54:10 tidux [~jon@c-24-61-183-110.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:28 ok, so it was definitely something in my code 20:54:48 now I'm trying to have run-program read a variable name as the arguments 20:55:20 (run-program "foo" :arguments '(*bar*)) 20:56:22 but that just says "*bar* no such file or directory" 20:56:42 you're quoting the variable. 20:56:50 (run-program "foo" :arguments (list *bar*)) 20:57:06 huh why not :arguments '("bar") ? 20:57:08 tidux: you didn't answer my question. 20:57:20 Forty-3 [~seana11@198.24.31.70] has joined #lisp 20:57:36 which was that? 20:57:54 How interactive was your program, whether it ran in a terminal? 20:58:00 it does run in a terminal 20:58:08 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:58:14 not in slime or anything, but it uses #!/usr/bin/clisp as the shebang interpreter 20:58:18 You can also use xterm -e to launch a new xterm window in which to run w3m. 20:58:26 ok. 20:58:55 and I figured out it wasn't the leading / that mattered 20:59:09 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:59:23 it was the way run-program handles variables in :arguments 20:59:29 (if (ext:getenv "DISPLAY") (ext:run-program "xterm" :arguments (list "-e" "w3m" url)) (ext:run-program "w3m" :arguments (list url))) 21:00:01 like I said, if I feed it a straight URL or pathname it's fine 21:00:10 ok 21:00:20 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 21:00:35 oh wait, it's not 21:00:59 wait, yes it is 21:01:04 forgot my ' before the arguments list 21:01:09 -_- 21:01:58 steffi_s_ [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-cxtdmbhhroqmqwxj] has joined #lisp 21:02:13 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-yrrnoutrkqbqjtfy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:13 -!- steffi_s_ is now known as steffi_s 21:02:27 I'm receiving a file name from user input, concatenating that to another string that provides the rest of the path, and passing that to a program 21:02:48 the input and concatenation work exactly as expected 21:03:07 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@198.24.31.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:03:09 it's just that when I use a variable for the contents of :arguments it gets weird 21:03:24 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-cxtdmbhhroqmqwxj] has quit [Client Quit] 21:08:37 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 21:10:06 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 21:10:14 abeaumont_ [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:30 tidux: you've been shown several example and told what not to do. Why does it still get weird? 21:12:55 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:15:35 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:16:49 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-69-234.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 21:17:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:20 -!- blbef [~chatzilla@089144206241.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 21:23:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:23:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:53 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-028-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:32:19 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #lisp 21:32:45 yCrazyEdd [~julole@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 21:36:09 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:09 Netas3k [~Netas3k@unaffiliated/netas3k] has joined #lisp 21:43:37 -!- NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ijpksinqyubjhgap] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:43:44 -!- denysonique [u484@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kuapjqvziwwouwoe] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:45:51 denysonique [~u484@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zndhbvgfupnjbgws] has joined #lisp 21:47:12 -!- denysonique [~u484@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zndhbvgfupnjbgws] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:47:32 denysonique [u484@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-majbtvxyiyoztkpd] has joined #lisp 21:48:31 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:49:40 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:51:33 -!- papajustify [~slugged@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: brb baby steffany!] 21:54:23 NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hrvrxupiknwlxbxd] has joined #lisp 21:54:26 -!- tidux [~jon@c-24-61-183-110.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:58:55 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 21:59:50 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 22:00:22 -!- piko [~piko@ip4-83-240-108-205.cust.nbox.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:01:37 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-128-77.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:04:52 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:14:34 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:44 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 22:15:33 n00b6502 [~ceti331@host86-173-123-205.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:15:53 how much is lisp used these days 22:16:01 100% here. 22:16:05 heh 22:16:45 That said, to eat my atun can, I used a fork and a spoon instead of lisp. 22:16:49 It's not perfect yet. 22:17:08 Perhaps in a few years, I'll have a robot, and be able to program it to feed me atun in lisp. 22:18:02 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-69-234.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:18:46 i keep thinking back to lisp on #haskell where the ability to define infix operators leads to a lot of bewildering code 22:19:01 You can use liskell. 22:19:18 let me guess - is that a lisp-esque front end for haskell 22:19:27 t 22:19:32 or just a lisp with lazy eval 22:19:38 nil 22:19:53 There's cl-lazy for that. 22:20:11 i think i need a text editor with color-coded braces though 22:20:17 emacs 22:20:19 papajustify [~slugged@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:39 i'm very surprised color coded nesting depth is not more popular 22:20:40 With highlight-parentheses.el 22:20:46 Because it's useless. 22:20:52 We don't read or count parentheses. 22:21:01 We use paredit, and it deals with them automatically. 22:21:11 how does that work 22:21:35 You have commands to edit sexp by sexp, instead of character by character. 22:21:55 oh so like cursor movement is replaced with step in/step out etc 22:21:59 Yes. 22:22:19 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:22:56 how exactly does that work 22:23:02 sounds intruiging 22:23:25 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 22:23:35 Google for it: emacs paredit 22:23:46 there are cheat sheets too. 22:24:01 i guess emacs itself being lisp based is a lispers editor of choice ? 22:24:12 (when i say lisp-based, i mean its embedded ..) 22:24:31 zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176315793.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:24:37 -!- yCrazyEdd [~julole@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:50 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:26:15 yes. 22:26:29 It helps. It would be better if it was written in Common Lisp however. 22:26:56 and it has a lot of warts 22:26:57 There are emacsen written in Common Lisp, but it would be better if they had all the programs emacs has howver. 22:27:18 in a way, it's a case of "how do I move all that stuff I use over to a new editor, after first writing a good editor" 22:31:02 Write an emacs-lisp in Common Lisp, which kind of defeats the point. 22:31:09 I spent some time researching the topic last spring in preparation for GSoC(didn't get accepted). I still can't decide if moving emacs to CL is futile or possible but not worth all the effort. 22:31:20 moore33: yes, to run the legacy code. 22:31:49 Or learn to accept emacs lisp as a fine lisp, optimized for editing tasks, and run with it. 22:32:16 moore33: the problem is that editing is only a small part of what emacs is for (only half joking :) 22:32:26 hypnocat [~hypnocat@unaffiliated/hypnocat] has joined #lisp 22:32:42 My opinion is that to be able to write good source CL tools, you need to write them in CL, because of reader macros, and macros. 22:33:06 emacs lisp is a total failure when it has to deal with CL reader macros. 22:33:16 pavelpenev: Heh, that says a lot about emacs lisp's capabilities. 22:33:39 You try to write a nice command, such, eg. exporting symbols, and it breaks because forward-sexp can't parse #something. 22:33:51 or emacs read. 22:33:52 can emacs lisp be evolved one step at a time toward common-lisp 22:34:03 moore33: A friend of mine wrote a turn based strategy game in excel, that says a lot about excel VBA :) 22:34:03 e.g. each release removes or adds somehting and people update scripts appropriately 22:34:18 Yes, one could add a reader macro system to emacs lisp. But then, in your programs reader macros are written in Common Lisp! 22:34:24 pavelpenev: Indeed. 22:34:43 So what you can do is to use emacs-cl, which is a CL implementation written in emacs lisp, and write your commands in emacs-cl. 22:35:02 whats more popular here cl or scheme 22:35:04 peterhil: more about your friend, perhaps 22:35:05 But soon you realize the only real solution is to have a good emacs written in CL> 22:35:14 does scheme have lisp macros 22:35:15 Hemlock is too many quirks, IMO. 22:35:44 Not in r5rs. 22:35:47 n00b6502: scheme is a different language than Lisp. Some schemes have a significantly different macro system than common lisp does. 22:36:42 emacs-cl is nice (and will probably be nicer on emacs-24 next year), but if you're writing a program with sbcl or ccl extensions, you won't be able to run it in emacs-cl to run your reader macros. 22:37:13 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:37:23 I've started having this problem today where slime-eval-defun or slime-eval-last-expression just hang. Entering the form in the REPL works fine. Any ideas? 22:37:26 Usually, reader macros give a facade to deep features of your program or your implementation, like FFI, implementation specific data structures, etc. 22:38:08 So either you write two sets of reader macros, one for your editor, one for your program and do that for all your libraries (quicklisp and more), or you use a CL editor you can load in the implementation you're using. 22:38:09 -!- fourier [~fourier@fsf/member/fourier] has quit [Quit: Bye] 22:40:08 -!- agumonkey [~agu@249.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:40:47 Daisy [Daisy@host-95-206-61-38.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 22:41:29 the young idiot in me thinks it would be a good idea to just write a new editor and not worry about backwards compatibility at all. Not even call it emacs, perhaps even *gasp* try new ideas... 22:41:57 you could call it vim.. 22:42:30 ... and all the ideas would be tried in the 80's and forgotten :) 22:42:32 an editor dedicated to lisp 22:42:51 pavelpenev: well, the problem is that if what you want to write is just paredit, you can easily. But if you also want to read your email, chat on irc, read usenet, run spreadsheets, play games, edit and compile C programs, etc, it is much less work to write an emacs lisp interpreter to run on your editor than to rewrite all those program.s 22:42:53 with the paredit mode instrinsic 22:43:12 http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/sedit/ 22:43:19 theres lots of programs for those other functions 22:43:59 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-69-234.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 22:44:31 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 22:44:43 i think color coded braces are a nice solution since many people will need to jump between languages 22:49:22 pjb: that would mean that the underlying system the editor is written in must make it easy to write text editors and mail clients, and game of life implementations... IOW, emacs the good parts. 22:49:38 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-63-98.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:50 It is easy to do that in CL. 22:50:00 What is not easy, is to have the time to do that in CL. 22:50:18 It takes less time to write an emacs lisp implementation in CL than to rewrite all the emacs lisp programs in Common Lisp. 22:50:33 It would be nicer if they were rewritten in CL, but we don't have enough CL programmers to do that. 22:51:20 Now of course, if you were Gates or Shuttleworth you could finance the rewriting in CL. 22:51:57 rewriting emacs in CL step 1) profit :) 22:53:08 this is lisp, we don't need an army of slaves to write software. 22:53:09 All that to parse reader macros? :) 22:53:33 pavelpenev: i doubt many emacs users will want to drop all the libraries they currently use 22:54:54 _of course_ the biggest challenge is social, we wouldn't want it to be too easy :) 22:58:19 yCrazyEdd [~selenogra@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 22:59:32 It would be nice to have a multithreaded emacs 22:59:37 That said, perhaps rewriting would have more advantage than trying to run emacs lisp code. 23:00:34 VieiraN [~VieiraN@200-171-134-72.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:03:18 -!- yCrazyEdd [~selenogra@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:07:04 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:07:09 -!- scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has left #lisp 23:12:35 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: brb, new spam detection function =D] 23:12:49 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 23:14:54 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:15:54 -!- cfy is now known as ilisp 23:17:33 -!- pjb is now known as olisp 23:18:24 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.41.178] has joined #lisp 23:18:30 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 23:21:02 -!- moore33 [~moore@17.185.125.78.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:22:41 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: http://www.redeclipse.net -- Fast-paced online FPS] 23:23:30 sykopomp, you know, we could work on CLIMACS 23:25:50 I heard climacs was a failure. Is there a paper describing it and its drawbacks? 23:26:18 S11001001 [~sirian@c-98-216-252-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:26 -!- S11001001 [~sirian@c-98-216-252-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:26:26 S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has joined #lisp 23:28:53 -!- ilisp is now known as cfy 23:29:47 the use of CLIM? 23:30:52 same process for the editor and the edited code. 23:33:55 -!- Guthur [~user@host31-53-72-82.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:12 This is an advantage, not a problem. 23:34:26 -!- jjkola [~androirc@193-64-20-231-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Quit: quit] 23:35:48 -!- BountyX [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:36:07 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:37:15 olisp: nothing like crashing the editor when experimenting with unsafe or foreign code, or hacking on the runtime environment or compiler. You're right, such highly-annoying events make us much more cautious; clearly an advantage. 23:38:55 Never happens for me :-) 23:40:59 -!- olisp is now known as pjb 23:42:02 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:42:13 Happens to me all the time. 23:43:39 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:44:30 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:28 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: one more code update brb] 23:46:41 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 23:48:10 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:59 its actually pretty amazing that edebug manages to work much better then CL debuggers, without screwing emacs over in the process 23:49:16 maxm-: I'm not surprised. 23:50:57 Quadrescence: or I could just be lazy and keep using emacs until someone does the work for me... 23:51:12 That's what we're all doing 23:51:20 Any news from Tom? 23:52:07 *maxm-* just discovered that there is weirdly written half of macsyma in emacs calc package 23:52:20 p_l, the use of CLIM is not a failure! 23:52:57 I'm writing a quick hack to track calories in org, so was pretty cool it can already parse stuff like "1/2 cups of whatever", and then do unit conversion and such 23:53:08 maxm-: see what I mean 23:53:30 -!- bitonic [~user@027cae25.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:54:20 *maxm-* is tired of web 2.0 trackers.. Download that, install app this.. my hack will be "send yourself email with' "Food: 1/2 large apple, 2 slices pizza" and I'm done 23:58:55 agumonkey [~agu@249.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp