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I am making a function (part of a simple standard deviation calculator) to recursively square numbers. It only sets my variable to the last squared member of my list, not the whole list. 01:31:37 Function: (defun rSquare (x) (setf (car x) (* (car x) (car x))) (if (cdr x) (rSquare (cdr x)) x)) 01:32:14 What is x? 01:32:29 x is a list of numbers. 01:32:29 What is the base case? 01:34:40 (if (cdr x) ... x) 01:35:00 So the base case is to return the tail of the list? 01:35:18 black_joe: (mapcar (lambda (x) (* x x)) list) 01:35:44 I'm not familiar with the term "base case". It's supposed to return anything. 01:35:52 But set the list to the squared numbers. 01:36:12 black_joe: it is usually bad form to modify lists in this way. 01:36:26 (map-into list (lambda (x) (* x x)) list) 01:36:26 Recursion is composed of two branches: the base case (the case when it stops recursing) and the (Ah, crap, forget the name), the case when it recurses down 01:37:00 When it stops recursing it returns x, which is the modified list. 01:37:09 Yeah, don't do that. 01:37:24 What can I do instead that doesn't use mapcar? 01:37:27 -!- kanru` [~kanru@111-249-163-146.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:37:29 LOOP 01:37:37 (For a non-recursive option) 01:37:42 black_joe: (loop for element in list collect (* element element)) 01:37:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:37:45 What is bad is to modifying the list. 01:37:46 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:37:47 Or you can do a recursive non-destructive operation 01:38:07 Such as operating on a local variable? I figured that would give the same problem. 01:38:11 You must be able to justify with a good reason such a mutation. 01:38:21 What with setting the variable to the tail of the list. 01:38:37 black_joe: also, I'm not sure I understand your problem - (let ((x (list 1 2 3))) (rsquare x) x) works fine here. 01:38:46 You would want to recurse to the bottom, square the tail, then cons it up as you go back up the stack 01:38:52 18:37:02 < black_joe> When it stops recursing it returns x, which is the modified list. 01:38:55 this is false 01:39:06 and you should use mapcar. 01:39:25 Then when it returns 'x' from the if what is it doing? 01:39:38 black_joe: local variables don't share structure with other parts of your code, a list may be defined as a constant, modifying which has undefined behaviour, and it can share structure with another list, and you'd be messing other peoples data by modifying it. 01:39:44 What does it do in your repl? 01:39:45 :) 01:40:13 Well, it seems to return the tail of the list. 01:40:15 black_joe: you only modify lists you created yourself, or you make it explisit that your function destroys them 01:40:19 black_joe: the x in the context of the last recursive call. 01:40:35 black_joe: in other words, the x such that (not (cdr x)). 01:40:44 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: http://www.redeclipse.net -- Fast-paced online FPS] 01:40:56 Right. Honestly I didn't want to mutate the list. I thought that LISP passed by value with their functions. 01:40:59 So I will change that. 01:41:17 I wanted to avoid mapcar for the learning experience of using lists, since I just started. 01:41:51 then you'd do (defun rsquare (x) (if (null x) nil (cons (* (car x) (car x)) (rsquare (cdr x))))) 01:41:53 Lisp, not LISP. :) 01:42:24 black_joe: what resources are you using to learn Lisp? 01:42:26 constructing a new list out of the numbers as you go, see. 01:42:49 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@187.10.241.67] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:42:50 I read through the beginning section of "A Gentle introduction to symbolic computing" 01:43:09 Now I have been mostly successful in just googling what I don't know. 01:43:15 However this one problem stumped me. 01:43:16 A good book. 01:44:28 Bike: That's a great implementation. Recursion still confuses the hell out of me. 01:44:34 That's why I tried to make this function recursive in the first place. 01:44:56 black_joe: type: (trace rsquare) (rsquare (list 1 2 3 4)) 01:45:11 (untrace rsquare) when you're done playing with trace. 01:45:19 yeah, trace is a great tool! 01:46:17 That is the best debugging tool I've ever laid eyes on. 01:46:30 Thank you. 01:47:24 black_joe: be sure to trace your original implementation as well to see the return chain. 01:47:37 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.166.35] has joined #lisp 01:47:56 It's actually what I did, and I can see why there was an issue. 01:48:31 It recursed, popping off the car without squaring it, and then it squared the final element of the list the same number of times as the length of the list. 01:49:42 Xach: I got your lambda gif into my presentation 01:49:50 And all of the other suggestions as well 01:50:24 Thanks for the help people 01:51:28 sbryant: Was it well received? 01:52:09 Yes, lisp wasn't a big part of it and I only had 5 minutes to begin with 01:52:29 *madnificent* often adds print statements in code to augment the trace 01:52:38 sbryant: woo 01:52:48 Xach: I had to recreate that in keynote, but I did 01:53:07 i believe I won the computationally most expensive presentation 01:53:27 sbryant: i take you've aimed to give people some appetite for lisp? 01:53:38 + LoL 01:53:40 Yeah 01:54:26 It was something people wanted me to talk about but not enough time. 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has joined #lisp 05:39:54 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-aonulpqskjsbxalj] has joined #lisp 05:40:28 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:40:45 -!- sambio [~cc@190.57.227.107] has quit [] 05:41:52 -!- sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:41:56 -!- black_joe [~Norton@75.104.132.171] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:42:36 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:44:55 -!- pocket__ [~masato@153.121.255.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:45:09 changedNicks [pule@irc.upasna.in] has joined #lisp 05:47:03 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:10 sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 05:52:18 sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 05:52:27 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-229-92.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:43 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 05:53:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:54:14 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:54:29 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:54:50 Hi guys 05:56:21 bon jour 05:56:34 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:56:55 -!- sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:59:09 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:00:09 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.197.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:01:52 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:02:20 WzTian [~WzTian@adsl-76-200-131-234.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:23 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[harish@nat/redhat/x-bcspictdtgvjuisy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:13:04 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@16.Red-79-156-244.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 06:13:32 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 06:13:47 MontCommDypir [~labguest@ucl-236-240.dhcp.ksu.edu] has joined #lisp 06:14:02 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:14:05 em jeekl moore33 angavrilov ArmyOfBruce WzTian quazimodo gravicappa Jasko changedNicks ramkrsna otwieracz trigen kushal pspace dan64- zmyrgel lcc kennyd benny pnathan kpreid anon119 kcj fold bege permagreen Yuuhi`` zodiac1111 Kvaks ji9 DDR springz yrk jack_rabbit neoesque cfy Bike PuercoPop420 dim kuzary smithzv stardiviner gurrag prip Nisstyre DataLinkDroid bjorkintosh quasisane rvchangue nanoc Modius homie` robot-beethoven Vutral 06:14:10 * Users on #lisp: [SLB] proq edgar-rft Amadiro AntiSpamMeta xan_ sellout42 axion Vivitron` tritchey loke _fogus_ bobbysmith007 naiv teiresias dan_dan__ sykopomp kliph qsun brendyn JPeterson Xof ghast billstclair abeaumont z0d theos superflit keltvek flip214 rdd kirin` scharan Sgeo Natch kleppari fmeyer Ottre CampinSam loke_erc arrdem bzzbzz DT` arrsim cmatei ered hpd s0ber pnkbst setmeaway Oddity brandonz Praise lucca joast Guest36974 jnbe 06:14:15 k|wc H4ns hswe hlavaty 06:14:17 * Users on #lisp: felideon gekko_ acelent dRbiG eudicot DaDaDOSPrompt aerique Khisanth mcsontos rtj ntd piko quackv4 joshe pierre__ mathrick Euthy arunganesan Quadrescence cmm- jmcphers BlastHardcheese jsnell _3b basho drewc df_ magnific1ab ianmcorvidae Xach |3b| r126f trbotime Codynyx eMBee daimrod p_l BeLucid Spaceghostc2c phadthai rvirding denysonique NimeshNeema SeanTAllen Gurragchaa Posterdati johs arbscht maxm setheus basso_ stokachu 06:14:24 naryl ivan\ mikaelj 06:14:24 seriously? 06:14:26 * Users on #lisp: ZombieChicken nicdev srcerer Zemyla cmbntr foom limetree pchrist Tuxedo ikariW fe[nl]ix macrobat brown` araujo DGASAU Yamazaki-kun antifuchs sawjig ameoba schme jaxtr Tordek antoszka Axioplase ``Erik hiredman tvaalen_ renard_ dfox PECCU turbolen1 sporous tali713 ace4016 kanru_ impulse newcup cataska clop weinholt ozzloy sigjuice_ elliottc1ble nuba Subfusc fasta_ chr` cipher` gilez theBlackDragon REPLeffect SHODAN Patzy ni 06:14:26 MontCommDypir: paste like a pro 06:14:31 ghtfly hugod xristos mal__ 06:14:32 *theos* spanks MontCommDypir 06:14:33 * Users on #lisp: TristamWrk sytse redline6561_ ineiros andrewsw kanru cola_zero_ __class__ Ralith stepnem nullman madnificent ChoHag tkd rtoym surrounder wolgo howeyc cYmen drdo gemelen CrazyEddy djinni`_ boyscared adeht ramus freiksenet slyrus frodef les jfe dmiles_afk Borbus yeltzooo7 wyan jasox kyl Buglouse yan_ dsp_ Fade tessier specbot derrida mon_key koisoke pkhuong herbieB pjb Yahovah_ froggey ofan minion NNshag guaqua ecraven rabi 06:14:38 te_ dnm_ rfgpfeiffer Zol 06:14:40 * Users on #lisp: Odin- anddam housel finnrobi @Zhivago slava froydnj Mandus jayne fmu DrForr Guest63158 yroeht _tca _schulte_ _root_ vhost- gensym robonyankitty acieroid zbigniew copec j_king gabot xian Obfuscate xaxisx cods galdor egn __main__ scode guther jasom Bucciarati vsync ft rotty felipe ccl-logbot mtd literal clog pok_ The_third_man gf3 tomaw spacefrogg^ nitro_idiot oGMo 06:14:41 Oi, moderator ping time 06:14:48 !op 06:14:55 Zhivago: MontCommDypir needs a boot 06:14:57 chill. 06:15:09 .k MontCommDypir 06:15:12 aww 06:15:22 0.o 06:15:28 ow [icxcnika@freenode/weird-exception/network-troll/afterdeath] has joined #lisp 06:15:29 woke me up from my idle nap 06:15:47 !whateverthecommandistoinformopsaboutaspammer 06:15:52 *ow* peers in 06:16:00 hey ow 06:16:23 theos: you are confusing "spamming" with "inability to operate mouse safely" 06:16:44 maybe he fell asleep and hit the middle mouse button with his forehead 06:16:45 H4ns how would i know? i dont have a mouse :/ 06:17:21 sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 06:17:45 What a idiot! 06:17:46 H4ns does the mouse button allow him to join the channel too? and start spamming right after joining? 06:17:46 I heard there was a spamfest and I was wondering if I could join 06:18:13 sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 06:18:42 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:19:03 yeah. call the police. 06:19:50 spam's dead, get the frying pan 06:19:51 :) 06:20:17 -!- MontCommDypir [~labguest@ucl-236-240.dhcp.ksu.edu] has quit [K-Lined] 06:21:04 guess it got taken care of :o 06:21:46 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:22:06 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: brb bug hunting, also Net::IRC is awesome, whereas PoCo::IRC::State sucks because it can't use account-notify, extended-join, or WHOX.] 06:22:28 -!- sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:22:46 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 06:26:05 ToArmsToArms [labguest@ucl-239-65.dhcp.ksu.edu] has joined #lisp 06:27:13 -!- anon119 [~bman@c-98-238-210-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:27:25 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 06:27:48 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.125.234.88] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:29:10 How lovely. 06:34:01 huh, found a comment in PCL's source referring to what's mentioned in http://lisptips.com/post/15025308254/. random. 06:34:42 Bike: link? 06:35:41 sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 06:35:50 line 649 in pcl/boot.lisp 06:35:53 sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 06:36:06 WHN didn't seem to know about it. 06:39:49 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-10.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 06:40:11 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:40:12 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:40:12 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:40:28 interesting. there is just too much to know about cl, really. 06:42:14 no kidding. 06:42:55 60 years will do that. 06:45:44 yeah. with cl, if someone says "i've got 10 years of experience" it means "i've stopped being a rookie and will be a pro in a few years" :) 06:46:18 It means the same in anything and any language. 06:46:23 They just don't know it. 06:50:12 OK, I'm a bit embarrassed to send you guys this link, but I feel I have to anyway: https://plus.google.com/115209488640908180409/posts/h6B8xU5yT4v 06:50:32 loke_erc: is that your talk? 06:50:36 yes 06:51:10 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 06:51:17 loke_erc: cool. :) 06:53:48 mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-138-161.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 06:53:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-138-161.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Changing host] 06:53:49 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:57:22 loke_erc, this is awesome. 06:58:32 -!- pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:43 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 06:59:00 pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 06:59:01 loke_erc: thanks for sharing 06:59:06 jack_rabbit: oh, you watching? 06:59:11 gko [~user@220.228.255.202] has joined #lisp 07:00:26 loke_erc, yeah. 07:01:24 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:02:11 DEAR EVERYBODY, the way Fieldy deals with me reminds me of a chicken getting slaughtered in a slaughtercone. http://youtu.be/LZFQO3Cgdrw?t=2m54s 07:03:07 -!- ToArmsToArms [labguest@ucl-239-65.dhcp.ksu.edu] has quit [K-Lined] 07:04:05 Why do they even try? 07:04:30 What? 07:04:31 -!- dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:10:05 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:10:12 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 07:11:24 dan64 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joined #lisp 07:36:45 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-212-128-247.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:39:22 Xach: I remember. trivial-irc had a missing dependency IIRC. I'll fork and fix it today. 07:39:30 trigen_ [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:3c65:34a5:2bd6:7949] has joined #lisp 07:39:36 -!- WzTian [~WzTian@adsl-76-200-131-234.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:40:23 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.241.56] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 07:40:45 -!- trigen [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:3c65:34a5:2bd6:7949] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:44:43 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:46:07 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:48:03 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.241.56] has joined #lisp 07:48:46 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 07:49:06 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 07:50:14 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.241.56] has quit [Client Quit] 07:51:49 homie`` [~user@xdsl-78-35-183-233.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:51:50 -!- ow [icxcnika@freenode/weird-exception/network-troll/afterdeath] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:52:36 ow [icxcnika@freenode/weird-exception/network-troll/afterdeath] has joined #lisp 07:53:20 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:55:01 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-183-233.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:57:00 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 07:58:09 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 07:58:13 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: out] 07:59:34 coldnew [~user@ymu041-045.ym.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 08:00:15 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.241.56] has joined #lisp 08:03:47 -!- dan_dan__ [~dan@gateway/tor-sasl/dan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:38 dan_dan__ [~dan@gateway/tor-sasl/dan] has joined #lisp 08:06:12 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:09:07 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:09:33 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:12:14 -!- moore33 [~moore@17.185.125.78.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:12:14 -!- mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-165-159.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:12:14 -!- schme [~marcus@c83-254-190-169.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:12:56 -!- xian [xian@we-are-the-b.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:13:05 mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-165-159.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:13:12 schme [~marcus@c83-254-190-169.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:13:46 xian [xian@we-are-the-b.org] has joined #lisp 08:13:57 moore33 [~moore@17.185.125.78.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-64.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:19:56 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 08:23:02 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 08:26:39 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:26:40 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-115-81.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:33:18 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-15-91.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:40 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 08:33:57 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34:56 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 08:35:33 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:36:22 -!- changedNicks [pule@irc.upasna.in] has quit [Changing host] 08:36:22 changedNicks [pule@unaffiliated/changednicks] has joined #lisp 08:36:30 -!- changedNicks is now known as sweet|kid 08:37:12 antonv [2e35c344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.68] has joined #lisp 08:38:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:38:51 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 08:41:17 suteru [~setyo@subs01-103-10-64-30.three.co.id] has joined #lisp 08:42:20 -!- suteru [~setyo@subs01-103-10-64-30.three.co.id] has left #lisp 08:43:51 -!- gekko_ [~jjk@78.157.103.6] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 08:45:16 gekko_ [~jjk@78.157.103.6] has joined #lisp 08:45:42 bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 08:47:25 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:48:57 peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 08:49:40 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:51:33 *madnificent* expected the link of ToArmsToArms to be A) about Fieldy B) relevant. needs wakeup coffee 08:51:50 ice_ [~ice@222.130.132.38] has joined #lisp 08:53:19 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:54:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:55:36 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:55:48 loke_erc: nice talk - didn't know there was much CL in SIN 08:59:01 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@223.194.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:59:04 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 08:59:22 mtd: Me neither. I'm doing what I can though :-) 09:00:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:01:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:02:36 ur5us [~ur5us@223.194.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 09:03:36 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-115-81.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 09:04:21 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-kuscmhlejwzqfdtd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:04:42 francogrex [~user@109.130.35.169] has joined #lisp 09:05:25 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:06:29 -!- agumonkey [~agu@201.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:06:48 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@223.194.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:08:18 ehu [~ehuels@31.138.137.159] has joined #lisp 09:09:34 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 09:10:38 ur5us [~ur5us@223.194.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 09:13:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:13:44 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:15:10 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:16:02 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 09:22:24 -!- ehu [~ehuels@31.138.137.159] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:22:39 ehu [~ehuels@31.138.137.159] has joined #lisp 09:26:53 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:30:35 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 09:34:51 homie``` [~user@xdsl-78-35-185-166.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:37:41 -!- homie`` [~user@xdsl-78-35-183-233.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:43:40 cfy` [~cfy@125.123.43.223] has joined #lisp 09:45:33 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:45:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:48:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.45.240] has joined #lisp 09:48:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.45.240] has quit [Changing host] 09:48:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:49:09 (hunchentoot:create-static-file-dispatcher-and-handler "/data.json" *data-path* "application/json") is serving as a binary file... how do i get hunchentoot to serve json as text? 09:49:44 text/json? 09:50:51 -!- dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:51:05 application/json should be right though, the accepting application is a bit off i think 09:51:59 text/plain should work too, in case you want to be the naughty kid which really just wants to read it as text 09:52:29 [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has joined #lisp 09:53:12 madnificent: do you mean that json is supposed to be served as binary? 09:53:17 <[6502]> Hello... what are the practical advantages of using uninterned symbols? 09:53:30 So that you cannot read them back. 09:54:06 When you read back a normal symbol, you get it. When you read back a uninterned symbol, you get a new one, different from the original. 09:54:21 <[6502]> a practical case in which this is good? 09:54:31 For private variables or functions. 09:54:46 <[6502]> but you cannot call them, no? 09:54:55 If you have a reference to them, you can. 09:55:04 <[6502]> oh... instead of (gensym) 09:55:15 (defmacro d (e) (let ((s (gensym))) `(let ((,s ,e)) (+ ,s ,s)))) 09:55:39 <[6502]> sorry... 09:55:48 <[6502]> i know and truly love gensym 09:55:53 if you didn't use a uninterned symbol for the variable name here, you could have this variable in the expression e, possibly with a modification form such as incf, and obtain wrong results. 09:56:09 <[6502]> I was talking about those other uninterned symbols 09:56:14 robot-beethoven: application/json is the right mime-type for a json response. the application which tries to accept the json document seems to do something wrong if it doesn't want the json document with that mimetype. you may want to do something different for debugging purposes though (however, if it is for browser-stuff, it should just be fine). 09:56:27 [6502]: I'm only talking about those uninterned symbols. 09:56:36 I'm not talking about Santa Claus. 09:57:13 Heh, what's the longest people here have gone without writing Lisp code? 09:58:03 (- 1996 1964) 32 years for me. 09:58:25 I don't think that counts. 09:58:40 <[6502]> pjb: i seem to remember a special reader syntax for uninterned symbols 09:58:44 #:x 09:58:46 Unless you are older than I believe :) 09:58:49 what kind of question is that? 09:58:59 <[6502]> pjb: ok... what's that useful for? 09:59:29 [6502]: to be able to read uninterned symbols 09:59:33 (let ((#1=#:x (* 2 2))) (+ #1# #1#)) 09:59:51 <[6502]> ahhhhhhh 09:59:55 *[6502]* loves that let 10:00:08 *[6502]* always sort of hated the idea the let symbols were interned 10:00:22 madnificent: oh, it was the silly mistake: i typed "appliaction/json" wrong 10:00:51 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:53 dfox [~dfox@89.177.105.49] has joined #lisp 10:01:21 <[6502]> also in most macro (not all of them , of course) the use of (gensym) could be replaced by '#:xxx 10:01:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:02:01 But not always. 10:02:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.45.240] has joined #lisp 10:02:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.45.240] has quit [Changing host] 10:02:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:02:14 <[6502]> i said most 10:02:43 It is often important to have different symbols, eg. when the macro can be embedded into itself. 10:03:12 <[6502]> pjb: if it's used for a let there should be no problem anyway 10:03:15 pjb: different names 10:03:31 Depends on the macro. 10:03:40 <[6502]> i said most 10:04:01 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 10:04:21 no, macros should never use uninterned unchanging symbols 10:04:38 <[6502]> btw implementing that reader feature of #1= ... is annoying 10:04:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:04:48 <[6502]> not the reader... but who produces the output 10:05:00 <[6502]> it has to scan the whole thing twice 10:05:32 unless you feel like reading macroexpansion of two macros with different variables but similar looking names 10:05:33 <[6502]> just to see if there are any back references 10:05:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:05:50 <[6502]> stassats: no one likes that :-D 10:06:10 [6502]: you don't have to scan it twice 10:06:35 <[6502]> stassats: no? how can you do? 10:07:15 upon encountering #1#, you save the cons it's in, and when you see #1=, you modify the saved cons 10:08:02 *[6502]* used a simplified version for his toy: e.g. (let ((x (list 1 2))) (push x x) x) ==> "(1 2 #0)" 10:08:19 <[6502]> stassats: reading is the easy part. you need to scan twice for writing 10:09:14 clhs 2.4.8.16 10:09:15 Sharpsign Sharpsign: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhp.htm 10:09:34 "forward references are not permitted", problem solved 10:10:14 Except there's the whole *print-circle* thing... 10:10:35 [6502]: how is writing related to it? 10:10:35 <[6502]> stassats: you're still talking about READING. the annoying part is producing the output... you have to see first if there will be later any backreference (to emit "#n=") 10:10:51 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:11:18 tough luck, *print-circle* is off by default 10:11:19 [6502]: you could produce #n= for everything, even if you don't backreference them. Problem solved. 10:11:26 :-) 10:12:01 It still needs to be supported, even if it is off by default. 10:12:08 <[6502]> loke_erc: indeed in my toy i just produce output numbering lists. #n is a back reference to the n-th opened list 10:12:48 moore33: it's like the least difficult part of the CL standard, i don't see how it could be annoying or anything 10:12:51 -!- cfy` [~cfy@125.123.43.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:13:25 <[6502]> loke_erc: to simplify reading as it's in CL you need to scan twice when doing the output. Not horribily difficult but annoying... 10:13:55 stassats: I don't claim that is annoying, but useful print-circle support implies passing over the data twice. 10:14:21 so, passing over the data twice is a no-no? 10:14:29 Possibly I am confusing *print-circle* and *print-shared*. 10:14:36 robot-beethoven: ah, that makes sense :) 10:14:59 stassats:Not as far as I'm concerned. 10:14:59 moore33: there's no *print-shared* 10:15:05 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:15:13 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:15:18 moore33: it's more of a question to [6502] 10:15:21 <[6502]> ouch 10:15:46 but he's known for such petty concerns 10:16:53 stassats: Sorry, I'm confounding *print-circle*, *print-length* and *print-level*. See my earlier question :) 10:17:06 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:17:23 <[6502]> ahhh... good, (let ((x (list 1 2))) (list x x)) emits (#1=(1 2) #1#)... i've had a doubt that only was used for "circles" 10:17:49 well, why don't you dispel any doubts with a healthy dose of CLHS? 10:18:13 <[6502]> why is it named *print-circle* then ? 10:18:31 indeed 10:18:38 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 10:19:25 because it allows you to print circular structures 10:19:39 *moore33* wonders how many dead email addresses are in the CLHS credits. 10:20:05 stassats: #1=#(a b #1# c d) ; what cons? 10:20:31 pjb: what cons? 10:20:44 Where do you see a cons cell in #1=#(a b #1# c d) ??? 10:21:29 *[6502]* saw #n= used in source code just to avoid retyping... 10:21:57 pjb: i don't understand that question, but (a b #1# c d) looks ostensibly like a cons cell 10:22:17 ## in source code is dangerous because while sharing tails is ok, circular source _code_ doesn't have to be handled by the interpreters or compilers. 10:22:29 *[6502]* wonders how happy would be a source leve debugger about that 10:22:54 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has joined #lisp 10:22:54 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:23:27 <[6502]> unless you set *compile-circle* :-D 10:24:49 nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@smtpbt.pramati.com] has joined #lisp 10:25:26 pjb: and if you were asking about handling forward-references, forward references are not allowed 10:26:34 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@223.194.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:26:36 No, I wasn't. 10:26:47 <12:07:15> upon encountering #1#, you save the cons it's in, and when you see #1=, you modify the saved cons 10:26:50 what cons cell? 10:27:21 that was about forward-references 10:27:33 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:27:48 -!- gko [~user@220.228.255.202] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:27:57 forward-references are not allowed, so you can move along 10:30:15 but if they were, and to handle vector, you could save the vector itself with an index 10:30:22 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:02 #= and ## should also work thru personalized reader macros. 10:32:05 See the recursive-p parameter of READ READ-DELIMITED-LIST etc. 10:32:05 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:24 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:37:24 hmm, mapcan or loop 10:37:42 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:38:52 *moore33* goes with loop. 10:39:24 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 10:39:37 -!- [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:46:04 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the 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[~Adium@c-24-5-81-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:07:13 -!- pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:07:38 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:08:07 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:08:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:08:57 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:10:54 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:03 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 12:16:53 -!- unicode [~user@46.253.33.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:22:59 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:35 trebor_dki [~user@kvpn.lbf.fraunhofer.de] has joined #lisp 12:24:01 -!- ofan [~ofan@unaffiliated/ofan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:25:02 ehu` [~ehuels@109.34.77.219] has joined #lisp 12:25:25 ofan [~ofan@unaffiliated/ofan] has joined #lisp 12:27:38 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@pad-sh-1.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:28:07 -!- ehu [~ehuels@31.138.137.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:28:33 ahh it's a wonderful day 12:28:33 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 12:28:49 black_joe [~Norton@75.104.132.171] has joined #lisp 12:29:27 hello. in sbcl - what is the intended function to get the process-id of the current running lisp-process? sb-unix::unix-getpid or sb-posix::getpid or something else_ 12:29:29 ?\ 12:30:24 trebor_dki: sb-unix is not for users. 12:30:33 trebor_dki: if sb-posix:getpid is external, that is the one 12:30:58 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 12:31:29 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:13 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:38 Xach: thank you. 12:34:45 looks like it is external 12:36:42 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 12:37:28 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:41:56 superjudge [~superjudg@37-46-176-67.customers.ownit.se] has joined #lisp 12:43:48 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-229-92.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 12:43:56 VieiraN [~VieiraN@187.10.241.67] has joined #lisp 12:44:45 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:58:33 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 12:59:34 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:01:37 -!- basho [~basho@static.76.144.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:04:23 -!- am0c [~am0c@175.253.42.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:23 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:04:54 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:46 -!- p_l is now known as p_l|laggy 13:10:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:59 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:11:53 lain__ [~lain@91-66-80-247-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:13:21 nanoc [~conanhome@190.220.165.57] has joined #lisp 13:13:24 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:16:43 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:18:15 hi. is it possible to get a new sbcl repl connected to the existing slime repl? (so i don't have to open another sbcl instance). i'm curious. 13:21:11 kanru [~kanru@111-249-148-28.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:31 basho [~basho@static.76.144.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 13:21:40 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:22:19 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:23:47 -!- black_joe [~Norton@75.104.132.171] has quit [Quit: Lost Connection] 13:24:30 francogrex [~user@109.130.35.169] has joined #lisp 13:25:04 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:17 ghast: you can start a swank server (swank:create-server) and then use slime-connect 13:25:48 ooh 13:25:49 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 13:25:50 i see 13:25:55 so it's possible 13:25:56 great 13:26:00 thank you 13:26:42 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 13:27:07 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:28:01 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:28:05 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:28:58 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:30:23 seabass [~seabass@pool-108-49-45-223.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:07 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.241.56] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 13:31:48 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:32:54 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:35:06 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:36 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:37:01 Morning everyone. I've got a function where I might have some information pre-computed, or I might need to compute it on the fly. What's the proper way to deal with that? Optional arguments? 13:38:01 seabass: what do you mean by "pre-computed"? 13:38:02 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:38:08 is it a result of some other function? 13:38:24 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:08 It's the mean of a set of numbers. Depending on where I call this function from, I might have already computed it because I needed it to do something else. 13:39:26 I'm just trying to save myself the cost of computing the mean in the even that I have it laying about. 13:40:28 seabass: if you sometimes have the data at the call site and you are not bothered by the extra arguments, use optional (or, better yet, keyword) arguments. 13:40:56 seabass: (set-of-numbers &key (mean (compute-mean set-of-numbers))) 13:41:33 oh, that's clever. 13:41:48 Can you do computations that are dependent on one another that way? 13:41:55 yes 13:42:09 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.35.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:42:09 the dependency is only one way 13:42:59 That's great. Thanks a lot folks. 13:45:20 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 13:46:19 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.197.210] has joined #lisp 13:46:21 felideon: hi 13:46:25 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-31-29.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:46:44 sykopomp: good morning! 13:51:31 philth [~philth@ohproxy1.avaya.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:54 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.2.129.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:56:18 -!- kanru [~kanru@111-249-148-28.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:57:10 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:59:28 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:03:26 teggi [~teggi@113.172.54.215] has joined #lisp 14:05:34 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 14:07:21 -!- ehu` is now known as ehu 14:09:05 suddenly, the russian invasion on Planet Lisp 14:09:10 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:52 -!- homie``` [~user@xdsl-78-35-185-166.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:54 Guest31228 [~user@xdsl-78-35-185-166.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:12:27 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:13:24 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:14:13 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-185-166.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:19:54 *j_king* welcomes our russian friends. 14:21:59 *madnificent* would welcome them even more if he had a clue what they were talking about 14:22:19 -!- coldnew [~user@ymu041-045.ym.edu.tw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22:30 true. i'd like to know what the japanese lispers are up to. they seem like a busy bunch and my japanese is terrible. 14:22:34 something about matlab, asm, java, lisp, and python. 14:23:03 if only translation algos were effective. 14:23:22 poor asm, always the outcast 14:23:45 sambio_ [~cc@190.57.227.107] has joined #lisp 14:23:45 -!- sambio_ is now known as sambio 14:23:46 -!- sambio [~cc@190.57.227.107] has quit [Client Quit] 14:23:55 sambio_ [~cc@190.57.227.107] has joined #lisp 14:24:21 -!- _fogus_ is now known as `fogus 14:24:50 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:16 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 14:25:17 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 14:25:17 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:25:59 -!- sambio_ is now known as sambio 14:28:04 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:28:32 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:28:44 j_king: i've wondered about it too 14:29:27 j_king: translation algos are scarily good now 14:30:21 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 14:32:53 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:35:13 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 14:40:40 j_king: google translate really seems to do fine, except for mixed code/prose sections, but I can usually just read the code there ;) 14:43:43 pkhuong: I don't use it too much but I've found in my limited experience with it that most humans can tell when you've used GT 14:44:28 j_king: definitely, the text is always wrong, but the meaning is clear enough. 14:45:20 -!- seabass [~seabass@pool-108-49-45-223.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: going inside.] 14:47:01 _travis_ [~travis@204.111.204.21] has joined #lisp 14:47:44 no [dcff027c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.255.2.124] has joined #lisp 14:47:44 -!- no [dcff027c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.255.2.124] has quit [Client Quit] 14:49:31 'morning 14:53:46 -!- _travis_ [~travis@204.111.204.21] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:55:24 (morning 'fade) 14:55:39 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:56:25 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:58:15 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:58:48 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:21 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 14:59:44 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@37-46-176-67.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:00:18 clintm [~user@131.191.81.250] has joined #lisp 15:00:43 ocmsRzr [~user@152.3.68.83] has joined #lisp 15:00:51 -!- nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@smtpbt.pramati.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:02:22 In Elephant, is there a way to limit the amount of objects returned from something like (get-*-by-* ? I can't find anything about it, but I thought I'd ask before I refactor for something else. 15:06:39 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:07:04 mritz [~textual@201.140.187.133] has joined #lisp 15:08:49 -!- mritz [~textual@201.140.187.133] has quit [Client Quit] 15:13:01 jcazevedo_ [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 15:14:20 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:23 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has left #lisp 15:14:54 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:14:55 -!- jcazevedo_ is now known as jcazevedo 15:15:45 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:16:56 mritz [~textual@201.140.187.133] has joined #lisp 15:17:58 -!- mritz [~textual@201.140.187.133] has quit [Client Quit] 15:19:21 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-135-038.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:23:20 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 15:23:39 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-64.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:24:30 DucBlangis [~chatzilla@24-117-207-111.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:27 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-57.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:28:26 brudgers [~opera@68-119-80-136.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:46 -!- pierre__ is now known as nowhere_man 15:32:43 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:34:05 [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has joined #lisp 15:35:39 <[6502]> Hello... is there any logical reason to not being able to set local functions by using e.g. (setf #'foo ...) ? 15:36:34 <[6502]> reason to not => reason for not 15:37:01 -!- eni_ [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:39:05 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:39:32 -!- DucBlangis [~chatzilla@24-117-207-111.cpe.cableone.net] has left #lisp 15:40:10 [6502]: you can't setf global functions either. 15:40:28 [6502]: do you mean something like (setf (foo ...) ...) where FOO is a local function? 15:41:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:58 <[6502]> Xach: I can setf (symbol-function x) no? 15:42:35 [6502]: Yes. Is that what you meant? 15:42:52 <[6502]> Xach: yeah, but for a local function (flet or labels) 15:43:13 [6502]: The local function is not necessarily associated with the symbol naming it at runtime, just like a local variable is not. 15:43:17 setting local functions doesn't make much sense, now, binding functions locally would be more useful 15:43:51 <[6502]> Xach: you can (setf x) where x is defined in a (let ...) form and is not special.... what is the difference? 15:44:20 [6502]: What you are proposing is not analogous. 15:44:35 <[6502]> stassats: I'm not sure I understand... that's what labels do... 15:44:49 [6502]: no, labels define a local function 15:44:54 not bind an existing one 15:45:23 -!- ice_ [~ice@222.130.132.38] has left #lisp 15:45:45 [6502]: it could work, but I don't see the point, short of symmetry for symmetry's sake. 15:46:52 pkhuong: well, starting with that there's no symmetry at all even when not taking setf into account 15:46:58 [6502]: (setf (symbol-value 'x) ...) does not alter a lexical variable X 15:47:10 flet analogous to let would be (flet ((fun (lambda (x) x))) ...) 15:47:16 -!- ChoHag [~mking@static45-85.adsl.bogons.net] has left #lisp 15:47:38 stassats: the symmetry here being with the fact that setf works on lexical value bindings. 15:48:45 -!- `fogus is now known as `fogus|eats 15:49:04 <[6502]> I've been playing with a let** form that allows to list variables and functions and looks natural, then I realized that CL doesn't allow to set a local function so I wondered if I was missing some logical problem 15:49:24 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:53 <[6502]> http://paste.lisp.org/+2T62 15:50:10 -!- CrazyEddy [~unlearned@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:50:16 i haven't encountered code where having (setf (function local-function)) would be helpful 15:51:05 <[6502]> stassats: neither did I, actually 15:51:29 <[6502]> stassats: but there are people that think that even setf on local variable is useful either 15:51:43 <[6502]> isn't useful 15:51:49 [6502]: You might be interested in http://common-lisp.net/project/metabang-bind/user-guide.html or one of the similar projects. 15:51:49 i have a continously growing sequence of floats/fixnums that i want to write to a stream. if the sequence wouldn't grow i could just write the array to the file, but i'd prefer not to write the complete array upon each addition. are there any best practices around? so far i can only figure out splitting each number by a newline or a space and then read/eval that 15:52:08 [6502]: yes, i rarely use setf on local variable in normal code 15:53:39 <[6502]> sellout42: yeah... I'm just using #'xx instead of :flet xx 15:54:35 <[6502]> sellout42: and also all variables are existing before and then they are setf-d in the order they appear (but during the evaluation of the initializer all variables are visible). More or less like scheme letrec... 15:55:20 [6502]: Why does LET** expand into setfs rather than LET forms? And the fact that you get things out of order makes me think that a name similar to LET* is not what you want. 15:56:00 coldnew [~user@ymu041-045.ym.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 15:56:01 chenbing [~user@223.166.93.178] has joined #lisp 15:56:02 sellout42: let* would be let*** 15:56:07 *pavelpenev* dusts off his Russian-Bulgarian dictionary and goes to planet lisp...doesn't need your stinkin' translator algorithms. 15:56:12 Is there any way to limit the amount of entries returned by instance queries in Elephant? I can't find anything in the docs, but I thought I'd ask before I refactored. 15:56:27 pavelpenev: Hah  yeah, I tried really hard to read that post this morning ;) 15:56:53 and i just didn't want to read it 15:57:07 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:57:43 machine xlation of Vsevolod Dyomkin's blog: http://coruscant.deepsky.com:8080/rYlZb 15:57:45 "how to combine functional languages with the mainstream" doesn't sound that interesting 15:58:34 notable only for the introduction of the term "Hipsterskie" to my lexicon. 15:58:50 <[6502]> sellout42: it expands in a let with all variables undefined, wrapping a labels with all functions and then the initialization is done using setf in sequence. The important point is that during initialization and inside local functions all bindings are visible. Neither let nor let* do this... 15:59:18 Fade: hhahaha 15:59:22 "hipsteric" :) 15:59:27 or "hipster" 15:59:43 is hipsteric like hipster, but more hysteric? 16:00:12 stassats: more of my error. "hip" I guess? 16:00:32 *p_l|laggy* is unaccustomed of dealing with hipsters 16:00:51 *clintm* refactors to postmodern... 16:00:57 *Xach* got his hipster Quicklisp Q-star stickers yesterday 16:01:16 stickers? ooo... 16:01:24 Yes, slavianization of English slang is always hilarious. 16:01:43 well, it's quite hip to label everything as "hip" nowadays 16:01:57 http://www.zazzle.com/quicklisp_q_star_sticker-217868504417177584 16:02:22 <[6502]> clintm: there's also a list of authorized tatoo shops 16:02:40 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.104.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:53 [6502]: heh... tattoos. one sec, let me find a picture of mine. 16:02:57 Xach: poor brand recognitino 16:03:05 recognition 16:03:12 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:03:25 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 16:04:27 [6502]: birthday present from my wife: http://snurl.com/24qlni1 16:04:37 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:05:05 <[6502]> clintm: and (y) stands for ? :-) 16:05:10 in that case try http://www.zazzle.com/lambda_star_sticker-217479066423747247 - based on xach.com/misc/lambda.html 16:05:19 sticker does not spin 16:05:56 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:13 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 16:06:13 [6502]: never looked at it that way. Supposed to be a lambda. 16:07:01 way too many "Oh dude, Half Life!!! zomg!" comments. Didn't think of that either when I got it. 16:07:09 Not that I don't like Half Life... 16:08:01 clintm, woah, are you gordon freeman? 16:08:12 heh 16:08:19 I mean, it's the symbol from HL2! 16:08:30 <[6502]> clintm: hahahaha... half life, i didn't thought about it either 16:08:35 what will you do when you grow out of lambda calculus? 16:08:49 <[6502]> stassats: laser 16:09:05 stassats, how can you grow out of lambda calculus? 16:09:15 stassats: It can probably be modified into a . 16:11:03 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 16:11:26 loreints [~user@anon-169-189.vpn.ipredator.se] has joined #lisp 16:12:42  uber alles 16:13:47 getting a tatoo is like hard-coding constants into your code, not easy to modify, now, getting an e-ink display implant is much better 16:15:18 H4ns: phew 16:15:46 Xach: :D 16:17:14 H4ns: i kept forgetting to ask about it. was the bug at least interesting? 16:18:08 Xach: not at all. the gateway did not handle "tweet too long" gracefully 16:18:13 "This beautiful quicklisp sticker design submitted by a Seller called wigflip was tagged: quicklisp, quicklisp, and quicklisp." 16:18:29 no, really. quicklisp. 16:18:31 Xach: and for some reason, twitter now counts tweet lengths before it shorts urls again. 16:18:31 heh 16:20:23 Xach: also interestingly, twitter told the gateway that your post was a duplicate, but still distributed it to everyone 16:20:34 *H4ns* can't but think that twitter is breaking apart. 16:20:53 -!- lain__ [~lain@91-66-80-247-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:22:08 I remerber in emacs slime can type "m-v-b" into "multiple-value-bind", is it ture and how? 16:22:29 chenbing: M-TAB 16:23:11 oops. chenbing: that was C-c TAB 16:23:55 <|3b|> M-tab works here 16:24:31 C-M-i as an alternative 16:24:37 or just TAB at the REPL 16:24:45 <|3b|> (possibly typed as esc tab or M-C-i to avoid window managers misinterpreting it) 16:25:00 oh, nice. M-TAB works here, too :) 16:25:27 annoyingly, my wm is trapping M-C-i 16:25:29 bingo C-M-I fit for me best 16:25:53 .oO(Oh look, I minimized emacs again!) 16:26:08 C-c C-i works too 16:26:12 *chenbing* couldn't help laugh 16:26:17 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:26:33 one way to one thing style (python?) is my favorite 16:26:39 C-i = TAB 16:26:49 M-TAB seems to be more relaxing, thanks H4ns 16:27:04 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:13 my keyboard seems refuse m-tab 16:27:32 so, it's M-TAB and C-c TAB 16:28:06 chenbing: that's highly unlikely 16:28:36 yeah. I just had M-C-i in the muscle memory in my hands. 16:29:30 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-009-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:44 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:32:32 M-TAB is used by many window managers, I have (local-set-key [tab] 'slime-complete-symbol) in my lisp-mode-hook function in .emacs 16:33:01 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:34:55 pavelpenev: what key do you use to indent? 16:35:09 pavelpenev: tab is used for indentation, you might want to use slime-indent-and-complete-symbol instead 16:35:13 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 16:35:30 (local-set-key (kbd "M-q") 'slime-reindent-defun) 16:35:39 stassats: nice idea 16:35:47 stassats: I might try that 16:37:23 M-q is already bound to paredit-reindent-defun, if you use paredit 16:39:10 I think I wrote that before i started using paredit. Might be time for some .emacs clean up :) 16:39:38 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 16:39:38 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 16:39:38 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 16:41:14 *pavelpenev* must attend some meatspace business now. 16:41:19 -!- bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:14 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 16:44:41 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:44:46 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Client Quit] 16:44:53 superflit_ [~superflit@67-41-144-184.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:27 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:45:34 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.48] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:34 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 16:46:06 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[~fantazo@91-119-229-92.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:55 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:22 -!- antonv [2e35c344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.68] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:05:28 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.206.143] has joined #lisp 17:06:32 Is there a handy way to disable input buffering in sbcl on linux? 17:06:53 herbieB: on which streams? 17:07:02 *standard-input* 17:07:10 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 17:07:15 Basically iw ant read-char to be immediately responsive 17:07:16 open a new one 17:07:33 sb-sys:make-fd-stream 17:08:11 wait, you want it to be immediately responsive as the user types? 17:08:37 Basically 17:08:45 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Client Quit] 17:09:05 well, buffering ain't gonna help here, you need to convince your terminal to do that 17:09:46 Ah, ok 17:10:23 herbieB: you can use cl-ncurses 17:10:27 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-31-29.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: zzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzz] 17:12:38 paul0 [~paul0@200.175.63.210.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 17:12:49 That's probably overkill 17:14:08 herbieB: 'what are you trying to solve exactly?' as stassats normally puts it so well when it gets to this point 17:15:02 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 17:15:31 -!- brudgers [~opera@68-119-80-136.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com] has left #lisp 17:15:41 He got that, I wanted sbcl to be responsive immediately to user input for a little toy thing I'm doing. stdbuf didn't do the trick, so I was wondering if there was some workaround from inside sbcl 17:15:43 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@190.220.165.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:16:20 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 17:17:30 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:44 prepare to learn about termios 17:18:02 -!- `fogus|eats is now known as `fogus 17:18:29 cipher`` [~user@2620:0:2820:a1:91f6:e19:9189:e5af] has joined #lisp 17:19:07 Yeah, and making ffi calls for the purpose of this program is nearly as overkill as using cl-ncurses 17:19:23 well, it's the only way 17:19:34 Indeed 17:19:53 anon119 [~bman@12.104.148.2] has joined #lisp 17:22:34 -!- cipher` [~user@2620:0:2820:a1:846d:e295:5fd:c980] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:23:47 dyCrazyEd [~deepsome@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 17:23:52 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:01 -!- dyCrazyEd is now known as CrazyEddy 17:28:25 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:44 brudgers [~opera@68-119-80-136.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:29:05 herbieB: if you don't want overkill, then use #+clisp ext:with-keyboard 17:30:22 PuercoPop712 [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 17:30:29 trebor_d` [~user@kvpn.lbf.fraunhofer.de] has joined #lisp 17:30:43 DGASAU` [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 17:31:13 quasisan1 [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:53 -!- lain__ [~lain@e178098236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:33:16 Mandus_ [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has joined #lisp 17:33:24 xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.176.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:47 mikaelj_ [~tic@c83-248-165-159.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:34:42 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:35:03 *Xach* has with-raw-terminal macro somewhere 17:35:57 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-157-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:37:03 Yeah, it apepars I just wanted sb-posix:tcsetattr 17:37:12 That's what I was looking for 17:37:33 And its varios friends 17:37:54 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:37:54 -!- rdd 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[~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:32 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:00 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:00:47 agumonkey [~agu@201.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:56 seangrove [~user@c-98-248-33-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:18 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aiubamrmjsnpdrhg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:03:18 -!- denysonique [u484@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fovxukmvsphgsbfh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:04 killerbo1 [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 19:04:25 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:04:37 hm. i am overlooking something very obvious... i am starting several instances of a binary generated via save-lisp-and-die and need them to have a different random-state. (make-random-state t) obviously is not the solution. using sth like (get-internal-real-time) seems not to be the right way either ... is there a portable way to get each instance a separate random-state? 19:04:37 -!- killerbo1 is now known as killerboy 19:04:46 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-139-13.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 19:05:19 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:05:38 trebor_d`: when you save the image, you can give a function to be run when the image is reloaded. Initialize the random state there. 19:06:23 trebor_d`: why isn't make-random-state the solution? 19:07:16 stassats: all instances will have the same random-state then (tested by printing (random 1000000) at start after (make-random-state t) 19:07:26 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:07:39 <|3b|> did you change *random-state* to the new random-state? 19:07:52 kushal [~kdas@114.143.160.192] has joined #lisp 19:07:52 do you do (setf *random-state* (make-random-state t)) at each start up? 19:08:35 can i please delete the last 5 minutes of this in all your memories please .... 19:14:44 sgregoire [~sgregoire@216.98.59.205] has joined #lisp 19:14:45 iocor [~textual@152.78.95.163] has joined #lisp 19:15:08 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:15:41 -!- sgregoire [~sgregoire@216.98.59.205] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:17 -!- help is now known as PuercoPop 19:21:37 *trebor_d`* hails lisp for its good nature of generating working applications even for ignorants like me. unbelievable ... 19:23:21 -!- trebor_d` is now known as trebor_dki 19:23:47 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:24:17 denysonique [u484@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-isbluugtipjwanxs] has joined #lisp 19:24:26 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-leczblurngndmzzc] has joined #lisp 19:27:20 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:19 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-115-81.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:30:23 -!- _travis_ [~travis@204.111.204.21] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:31:52 -!- sweet|kid is now known as upasna 19:33:52 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 19:34:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35:14 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:38:16 tiripamwe 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black_joe [~Norton@75.104.132.171] has joined #lisp 20:27:54 -!- WzTian [~WzTian@adsl-107-198-86-59.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:29:19 I have some weird output coming from a pythagorean theorem function. Google and various books couldn't clarify the problem. 20:29:28 Function definition: (defun ptgSide (hypot side1) (+ 0.0 (sqrt (- (square hypot) (square side1))))) 20:29:35 WzTian [~WzTian@adsl-107-198-86-59.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:44 Output: #C(0.0 3) 20:29:55 A complex number. 20:29:57 The #C is unfamiliar. And the 0.0 shouldn't be there either. 20:30:08 #c(0.0 3) is 3i 20:30:18 black_joe: are you sure you haven't swapped the arguments? 20:30:48 Yes. I am sure of that. 20:31:11 So is there any way to prevent it from evaluating to a complex number? Or to convert the complex number into a decimal number? 20:31:27 That you got a complex number means that the argument to sqrt is negative. 20:31:34 When I googled the problem I just got things relating to C#. So thanks for telling me the name of it. 20:31:58 black_joe: you might want to brush up on high school math then. What's the square root of -9? 20:32:03 (ptgside 5 4) => 3.0 20:32:11 wztian_1 [~WzTian@adsl-107-198-86-59.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:17 -!- WzTian [~WzTian@adsl-107-198-86-59.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:32:23 Oh. I did screw the arguments up when I called it. 20:32:26 Not in the function. 20:32:43 I am not even in High School yet. But... Nothing, right? 20:32:50 Since if you multiply two negatives it yields a positive? 20:33:07 heh, heh. 20:33:18 how endearing 20:33:20 With complex numbers it's 3i. 20:33:27 i being (sqrt -1). 20:34:08 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:34:27 If you're only dealing with real numbers there is no answer, yeah, but Lisp includes complexes. 20:34:52 So then Complex numbers are specific to Lisp? 20:34:52 didi [~user@177.65.231.116] has joined #lisp 20:35:03 No, like pkhuong said, it's high school mathematics. 20:35:49 I'll see when I come to it. It looks useful. Up until now I thought negative numbers were un-square rootable. 20:35:52 Complexes are just like rationals, but for reals. 20:35:57 :-) 20:36:11 pjb: I'm constantly crashing CLISP while using CFFI. I actually have no idea of I'm doing, but just to ask: Do you know if CLISP have some inherent problem with CFFI? 20:36:27 didi: not at all. clisp has one of the best FFI around. 20:36:33 Nice. 20:36:34 The problem is the C code you're calling. 20:36:51 That's why I think it's better if you just rewrite the library in Lisp. 20:37:54 pjb: That would be awesome, but I'm afraid I'm not capable of such. But that's fine. 20:37:55 When you call a Lisp function, if you make a mistake, you enter the debugger and get a nice error message. When you can a C function, if you make a mistake, you crash the process. 20:38:25 So you use a C library only if you know it: there's no way to learn it by introspection. 20:38:48 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:39:29 I know it quite well, actually. It's just the CFFI interface, types, functions that are actually macros, callbacks and all that fun stuff. 20:41:36 -!- iocor [~textual@152.78.95.163] has quit [Changing host] 20:41:36 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 20:41:37 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:41:37 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 20:42:02 -!- dan64 is now known as Guest14436 20:42:02 -!- kushal is now known as Guest77882 20:42:02 -!- denysonique is now known as Guest68848 20:42:03 -!- BlastHardcheese is now known as Guest78395 20:42:11 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:42:18 It might be a good idea to wrap the C functions in Lisp functions that check the parameters, call the C function with the right parameters, and signal lisp errors when the C library indicates an "error". 20:43:06 The "thick" interface vs. the "thin" interface. 20:43:21 -!- yrk 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[~stardivin@122.236.243.60] has joined #lisp 21:40:35 maybe just youthful indiscretion. 21:40:57 Let's embrace diversity and Lisp. 21:42:49 -!- trebor_dki [~user@kvpn.lbf.fraunhofer.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:43:04 group (parenthetic) hug! 21:43:21 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 21:44:23 \o/ 21:45:29 -!- paul0 [~paul0@200.175.63.210.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 21:48:24 (hug) 21:49:16 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 21:49:30 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.243.60] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 21:49:53 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.243.60] has joined #lisp 21:50:04 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-50-49.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:17 Does anyone here still go to comp.lang.lisp? 21:50:36 the trolls and spammers do 21:50:38 Cosman246: That's a sad place. 21:51:44 didi: indeed 21:54:00 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:55:17 A lot of them appear to be mad 21:57:40 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:59:18 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-009-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:00:29 -!- chenbing` [~user@223.166.94.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:01:09 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:01:16 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-31-29.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: I'll be back] 22:01:24 -!- eni_ [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:03:07 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 22:03:21 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:03:52 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:04:17 _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:09 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-212-128-247.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:42 -!- Obfuscate` [~keii@ip98-176-6-103.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:07:42 Obfuscate` [~keii@unaffiliated/obfuscate] has joined #lisp 22:07:47 -!- Obfuscate` is now known as Obfuscate 22:08:38 -!- agumonkey [~agu@201.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:10:12 -!- wztian_1 [~WzTian@adsl-107-198-86-59.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:10:32 WzTian [~WzTian@adsl-107-198-86-59.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:20 Guest312` [~user@xdsl-78-35-169-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:12:25 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-185-166.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:12:36 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:07 -!- Guest31228 [~user@xdsl-78-35-185-166.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:13 Cosman246: There is actually a list of mad people on comp.lang.lisp: http://www.tfeb.org/lisp/mad-people.html 22:15:29 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:29 Cosman246: now you know not to go there 22:18:01 lain__ [~lain@e178079096.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:21:48 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@65.101.242.214] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:23:01 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 22:24:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:58 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-50-49.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:31:58 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:37:46 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: good night] 22:40:09 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-50-85.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:23 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:43:24 <_travis_> pavelpenev, thank you for that link. this is a very entertaining read! 22:45:11 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:50:52 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.125.234.88] has joined #lisp 22:51:03 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:51:53 *anvandare* bangs his head against the wall 22:52:12 pavelpenev: :)) 22:52:50 you, laughing at other people's misfortunes, it's not their fault they're mad! 22:54:10 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.237] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:54:12 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:54:49 and in the case of cthun, he was probably programmed that way. 22:55:04 <_travis_> i cant help but wonder how different newsgroups for things like cll were 10 years ago... 22:55:13 <_travis_> and how much more i would have learned reading them back then 22:55:16 *pavelpenev* gave reading cll a chance about the same time he appeared, revoked that chance pretty quickly 22:55:17 you could check google groups :P 22:55:39 <_travis_> yeah i know… but it's not the same as reading real-time and participating in some :) 22:55:58 you could still answer to a post from '83! 22:59:15 Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 22:59:44 actually, "madness" is very ambigious anyway, so the post can't be taken seriously either 22:59:52 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.166.35] has joined #lisp 23:01:55 _travis_: "the list that makes people mad" 23:02:02 s/list/newsgroup/ 23:03:30 what link? 23:03:40 -!- oskarth [Adium@nat/hackerschool.com/x-nbltymzxgqrpwtlp] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:03:43 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:33 what link about cll? 23:05:16 Cosman246: http://www.tfeb.org/lisp/mad-people.html 23:05:32 ah yes 23:05:44 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 23:05:49 hatters gonna hat 23:05:50 Xah Lee especially, because he's very intelligent, but just mad 23:10:36 SegFaultAX|work2 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