00:03:11 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 00:06:03 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:07:25 _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:14 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 00:13:36 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 00:14:43 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:17:42 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.218] has joined #lisp 00:20:21 -!- superflit_ [~superflit@65-128-53-202.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:54 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:26:03 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 00:26:16 -!- paradoja [~paradoja@237.Red-83-61-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:27:49 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:27 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:29:28 lirt [~lirt@188.16.138.30] has joined #lisp 00:30:10 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:30:54 -!- lirt [~lirt@188.16.138.30] has quit [Client Quit] 00:32:32 -!- howeyc [~howeyc@2607:f2f8:a958::2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:40 howeyc [~howeyc@2607:f2f8:a958::2] has joined #lisp 00:33:56 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:22 -!- antifuchs [foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:34:23 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 00:34:36 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:34:47 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:35:01 -!- dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:35:19 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36:09 -!- wolgo [~jarrod@li155-127.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:14 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:14 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:36:14 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 00:36:23 wolgo [~jarrod@li155-127.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:37:36 dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has joined #lisp 00:37:38 antifuchs [foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:04 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 00:41:24 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-145-245.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:42:04 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 00:43:10 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-145-245.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:49:22 Xach: where did you find conduit-packages ? 00:49:58 isn't that part of the hacks page of some lispers? 00:50:00 *lisper? 00:52:12 yes, tim bradshaw 00:52:42 but the author didn't package it 00:52:42 iirc it's straight from that page + ASDF glue 00:53:28 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:58:03 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:01:18 -!- optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176324022.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:01:33 p_l [~pl@web1.rootnode.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:11 -!- p_l|ssh-broke [~pl@host-78-146-184-254.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:02:11 Xach: Did you receive my email "Subject: My little quicklisp-client::system-not-found problem."? 01:06:34 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-145-245.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:07:33 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:08:14 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:55 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:15:28 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:19:03 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:22:31 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-172-136.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:28:37 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:30:56 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:31:59 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:35 -!- mirTapir [vutral@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:34:38 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 01:34:46 mirTapir [vutral@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has joined #lisp 01:36:02 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 01:37:13 agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:22 arizo [~arizao@109.78.105.163] has joined #lisp 01:40:52 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:13 ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has joined #lisp 01:44:29 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45:38 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 01:45:54 writing assembly in lisp is fun 01:47:06 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 01:54:12 -!- arizo [~arizao@109.78.105.163] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:59:53 stassats: what's not fun to write in lisp? 02:00:08 sykopomp: obituaries 02:00:35 stassats: :( 02:01:42 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: mental blackout] 02:02:32 lol 02:06:17 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-50-85.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:01 ... what about death service for client's social web accounts/ 02:07:03 ? 02:08:01 Good morning/afternoon/evening/night 02:08:26 How's the weather in Boston? 02:08:26 good sol 02:10:35 (wunderground:print-weather (wunderground:query-station "KBOS")) => "25 °C, 83% humidity; Wind: SSW 11.27 km/h. Updated: August 11, 9:54 PM" 02:10:56 sgwizdak [~sgwizdak@c-98-247-254-184.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:14 Hmm, a bit too warm for my tastes 02:11:26 -!- sgwizdak [~sgwizdak@c-98-247-254-184.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:16:17 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.55.252] has joined #lisp 02:16:49 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.55.252] has quit [Client Quit] 02:18:44 stassats: Wunderground is not in quicklisp. I'm disappointed 02:19:58 well, i don't really use quicklisp 02:20:08 heresy! 02:20:25 my disappointed grew a little 02:20:36 Kvaks_ [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 02:21:24 well, someone could use DRAKMA to make wunderground 02:21:45 someone did 02:21:53 oh? 02:23:00 eh! https://github.com/stassats/wunderground 02:23:00 where can I find it? 02:23:06 Thanks 02:23:53 reactormonk [~tass@cpe-70-116-15-3.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:24:08 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.55.252] has joined #lisp 02:25:15 -!- anon119 [~bman@c-67-181-158-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:30:20 andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has joined #lisp 02:34:16 -!- agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:35:15 -!- Sorella_ [~quildreen@201-58-221-107.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 02:43:03 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:43:53 ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:27 eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has joined #lisp 02:49:38 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.137.41] has joined #lisp 02:52:35 -!- andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has quit [Quit: andres-v] 02:56:52 leoncamel [~user@219.142.133.155] has joined #lisp 03:01:59 andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has joined #lisp 03:03:53 -!- benny [~user@i577A8582.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:05:45 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-160-241-11.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:42 chenbing` [~user@223.167.92.229] has joined #lisp 03:09:07 -!- chenbing [~user@223.167.92.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:10:09 -!- andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has quit [Quit: andres-v] 03:12:08 centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-182-69.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:52 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A3B7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:12 -!- chenbing` [~user@223.167.92.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:15:20 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B74F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:15:31 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:16:01 (ql:quickload :wunderground) --> system-not-found 03:17:34 meiji11 [~user@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:12 saschakb_ [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 03:18:39 stassats: see the point of quicklisp: I cloned your wunderground and loaded it and then: Lambda list of method # is incompatible with that of the generic function #. Method's lambda-list : (xpath::navigator xpath::node) Generic-function's : (xpath::navigator xpath::node xpath::name) 03:18:39 03:19:20 i don't use quicklisp and i don't care, works for me 03:19:22 unless it's an error purely in xpath. 03:19:31 What xpath to you use? 03:20:05 the usual one 03:21:17 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:40 and i'm not using it 03:22:21 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:22:33 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:34:27 -!- blbef [~chatzilla@089144206230.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:38:13 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 03:38:33 -!- tensorpudding_ is now known as tensorpudding 03:39:00 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 03:39:11 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:41:02 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:43:09 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:45:10 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:49:39 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:53:47 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 03:53:59 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 03:54:20 _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:51 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-183-222.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:59:40 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-182-69.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:01:07 centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-182-69.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:36 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:20:47 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129063152.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 04:20:54 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-50-85.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has left #lisp 04:26:29 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 04:26:33 disciple [~krishna@117.207.109.185] has joined #lisp 04:26:53 -!- eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 04:27:24 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:27:42 mickbeaver [~mickbeave@216-136-25-2.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:00 -!- mickbeaver [~mickbeave@216-136-25-2.static.twtelecom.net] has left #lisp 04:28:59 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:49 -!- meiji11 [~user@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31:54 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:37:52 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.137.41] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 04:40:15 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: /msg fn-troll hi] 04:42:51 -!- ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ipmonger] 04:46:22 -!- ravster [~user@24-212-136-201.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:46:38 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.137.41] has joined #lisp 04:52:09 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 04:56:40 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.137.41] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 04:56:53 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:57:42 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 04:59:07 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 05:01:43 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.55.252] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 05:05:42 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.62.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:07:46 joekarma [~joekarma@184.151.222.167] has joined #lisp 05:08:33 clin18 [~C@pool-74-101-38-52.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:43 -!- clin18 [~C@pool-74-101-38-52.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 05:13:41 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:45 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: going to moon brb] 05:16:08 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 05:17:53 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-21-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 05:18:08 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:18:17 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-21-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:17 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 05:19:49 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@184.151.222.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:20:11 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:20:25 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 05:22:27 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:24:23 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:24:35 -!- S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:25:46 in the format string "~a/~a?query=~a:~a" - how can i make the 3rd ~a _and_ the colon after it removed when it's nil? 05:26:24 "~a/~a?query=~@[~a:~]~a" 05:26:31 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.109.185] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 05:26:32 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:27 thanks, i'll loo into those directives 05:27:34 enjoy 05:31:41 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:33:51 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:41 joekarma [~joekarma@184.151.222.186] has joined #lisp 05:37:50 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 05:38:20 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.106.210] has joined #lisp 05:39:37 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:47:40 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has joined #lisp 05:50:58 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:52:20 Vivitron` [~Vivitron`@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:30 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 05:55:11 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 05:58:21 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:58:28 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:00:30 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 06:15:08 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:16:58 joekarma_ [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:08 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@184.151.222.186] has left #lisp 06:18:19 -!- lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:18:24 -!- joekarma_ is now known as joekarma 06:23:06 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 06:23:10 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 06:31:41 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:37:55 wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:30 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:42:18 jimmy___ [4086ed57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.134.237.87] has joined #lisp 06:42:43 lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 06:43:42 ghast [~user@host248.200-45-155.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 06:43:56 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.137.41] has joined #lisp 06:44:38 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 06:46:19 greetings all. I'm having trouble standing up an installation of emacs quicklisp slime and ccl on a windows xp machine and I'm wondering what to do. After loading quicklisp and the slime helper and editing my .emacs per the instructions, when I M-x slime, I get "apply: Spawning child process: invalid argument" 06:47:04 can anyone spare a few minutes and set me in the right direction? I wasn't sure which irc channel I should go to for this 06:47:53 jimmy___: i guess that emacs cannot find the executable that has been specified as inferior-lisp-program 06:48:18 -!- wuehli is now known as maddi 06:48:22 jimmy___: try putting the ccl installation directory into your PATH. i think emacs has a private PATH that you can set, but i usually do it globally 06:49:04 H4ns: in my .emacs I have an explicit path to the executable. Do you suppose that wouldn't cut it? 06:49:25 jimmy___: maybe you've screwed up with the backslashes 06:49:27 -!- maddi is now known as wuehli 06:50:04 jimmy___: adding to the global PATH has the advantage of making the lisp available on the command line, too. 06:50:38 H4ns: I thought of that, but I have a pre-existing line to integrate codepad.el also using explicit paths. I'll try adding the path to ccl in the env and see what happens 06:50:49 ok 06:51:14 H4ns: *the codepad functionality does work, so I used the backslash convention from that line. 06:51:31 it could be something else, too :) 06:51:52 but usually, i get the > game1.players[0].game === game1 06:51:53 true 06:51:56 gah 06:52:14 i get the "spawning child process" message when emacs can't find the lisp executable 06:54:44 ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:44 H4ns: ok its added to the path env, and I can call the ccl exe from the cmd line, but its still not working 07:01:01 benny [~user@87.122.116.0] has joined #lisp 07:01:12 oh, I think I saw this before 07:01:18 try http://tb-nguyen.blogspot.com/2010/05/how-to-fix-emacs-windows-error-spawning.html 07:01:24 -!- mike4_ [~mike4_@gateway/tor-sasl/mike4/x-38362156] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:05:49 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:06:55 Bike: Thanks, but nothing looks out of place in the env. It could be another env variable problem. I've been wanting to move over to a linux install anyways. 07:08:16 another google result was about unescaped spaces (using PROGRA~1 instead of Program Files in the path or something) but I guess that's probably not it. Sorry. 07:09:43 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:10:37 -!- ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ipmonger] 07:11:56 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.237] has joined #lisp 07:16:42 Bike: I do have spaces in my paths, let me try the dos style 07:17:04 yeah, do it like in the 1980ies! 07:17:41 after all, you're trying lisp, so that'll get you in the groove! 07:17:43 :) 07:21:32 :-D no dice on that. when I try to eval c:/docume~ blah emacs complains 07:21:58 and to make it worse, emacs thinks ~/ evaluates to user/application data 07:22:11 and the rest of the system thinks differently 07:22:54 wait, isn't it docume~1 or so? 07:23:06 oh 07:23:13 er yes 07:23:48 well... that worked 07:24:06 you mean the inferior lisp runs? 07:24:16 yup 07:24:32 so, no spaces in pathnames evereverevereverevereverevereverever 07:24:53 everything old is new again! 07:24:57 well, that's rather bizarre. 07:25:15 but I'm glad you got it working, at least. 07:26:09 or.... 07:26:35 I reinstalled the slime helper via quicklisp, and reverted the pathname to the more modern one and it still works 07:26:39 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:26:59 Curioser and curioser. 07:27:25 so I guess I messed up the quicklisp install somehow, which is embarrassing because the instructions are braindead simple. oh well. Thanks! 07:29:58 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 07:30:52 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:33:24 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 07:41:53 [6502] [5e24f94f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.249.79] has joined #lisp 07:44:33 <[6502]> Why is :before working most-specific first and :after most-specific last? Wouldn't be more logical the other way around? Do someone here have any pointer to read about this? 07:44:38 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: going to mars brb. DLange thinks moon is old news.] 07:45:00 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 07:45:02 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:45:18 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 07:46:19 -!- wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:48:06 [6502]: probably AMOP? but you could define your own method combination 07:52:11 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 07:55:10 wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:56:15 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: hopefully last restart] 07:56:36 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 08:01:11 MonsterWithin [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has joined #lisp 08:03:44 -!- Kvaks_ [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:22 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-18-91.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:06:10 kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-138-199-104.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:06:17 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:08:12 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 08:08:46 -!- MonsterWithin [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:09:23 MonsterWithin [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has joined #lisp 08:11:03 <[6502]> Bike: AMOP is more about "how" it is or can be implemented... i was wondering about "why" :after and :before are that way... basically specific -> generic then most specific (the primary) that may use or not call-next-method and then generic -> specific. If you draw a graph with time on X and specificity on Y you get an odd shape... 08:11:38 well, it's how, but goes into a lot of the rationale too. I forget if it covers that specific. 08:12:44 <[6502]> Bike: ok ... i'll dig into that; i imagine there's no freely available version except chaps 5 and 6 included in CLHS, right? 08:14:04 don't think so. 08:14:09 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:14:20 have you looked at the clhs? maybe it has something. 08:15:46 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 08:20:05 Keene's book mentions some whys of CLOS, I don't remember if it has this specifically. Most-specific being the most-before and most-after fits my intuition, though. 08:20:05 <[6502]> The before methods are run in most-specific-first order while the after methods are run in least-specific-first order. The design rationale for this difference can be illustrated with an example. Suppose class C1 modifies the behavior of its superclass, C2, by adding before methods and after methods. Whether the behavior of the class C2 is defined directly by methods on C2 or is inherited from its superclasses does not affect the relativ 08:21:05 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 08:21:29 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:21:37 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:23:05 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-235-116.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:56 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 08:29:04 <[6502]> Vivitron`: it does? I'd say that a more reasonable order would be before-banking-account-withdrawal before-checking-account-withdrawal before-overdraft-protected-checking-account-withdrawal overdraft-protected-checking-account-withdrawal after-overdraft-protected-checking-account-withdrawal after-checking-account-withdrawal after-backing-account-withdrawal 08:29:42 [6502]: it is intuitive to me, too. 08:30:29 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:30:54 <[6502]> sounds like to usual covariance/contravariance problem... i'll have to think more about it 08:32:55 <[6502]> sounds like the 08:33:07 <[6502]> backing-account banking account 08:33:11 *[6502]* just can't type 08:33:23 *[6502]* also apparently can't think :-D 08:34:11 -!- MonsterWithin [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:35:28 MonsterWithin [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has joined #lisp 08:37:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-169.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:42:20 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:42:49 surrounder [~surrounde@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 08:43:19 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.166.35] has joined #lisp 09:00:28 -!- rj-code_ [~rj-code@bb219-75-77-233.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: rj-code_] 09:01:59 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:04:30 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:16:50 -!- [6502] [5e24f94f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.249.79] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:20:06 -!- Scheisselstadt [Scheissels@204.12.223.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:20:26 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 09:25:01 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:26:12 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@75-145-119-42-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:28:44 Guthur [~user@host86-160-241-11.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:30:32 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-126-72.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:48 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-220-48.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:32 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.129.166] has joined #lisp 09:38:20 disciple [~krishna@117.201.23.5] has joined #lisp 09:39:10 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 09:39:59 clintm [~cmoore@131.191.81.250] has joined #lisp 09:41:15 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-61-54.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:42:37 "illegal terminating character after a colon: #\" - is the '#\' a space? In the sldb buffer there isn't a space after the \ but I'm not taking that as conclusive proof that it doesn't mean space... 09:44:29 #\" is a double quote 09:45:09 Oh, sorry bad formatting due to being OCD about punctuation - the actual error is ... after a colon: #\ 09:47:04 if it helps: http://paste.lisp.org/display/131001 09:47:28 Ah, duh again. There is a space when I expand the error message. 09:48:49 a colon is not followed by a space in cl 09:48:56 that is what the error tells you 09:49:43 Scheisselstadt [Scheissels@204.12.223.123] has joined #lisp 09:49:50 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 09:52:02 jdz [~jdz@89.201.99.128] has joined #lisp 09:52:28 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 09:53:29 Ok, that's what I thought. weird. This isn't in code but rather a string that I'm handing to 'read-from-string'. clearly I need to dig down more. 09:54:36 what is strange about it? read-from-string invokes the reader, and it is not surprising that it works only with strings that follow cl's syntax rules. 09:56:51 I just levelled up in lisp. I knew that was the case, but I hadn't yet unlearned enough to make it intuition. 09:59:09 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:59:12 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:00:35 Kuloto [~mro@176.20.pool.kuban.skylink.ru] has joined #lisp 10:00:45 Hrm... apparently, I did know that when I wrote this. That call is wrapped in a (let ((*read-eval* nil)) what else, or instead of should I be doing to expect to be able to parse "Date: Sat .." 10:01:21 you cannot use read (or read-from-string) to parse arbitrary strings like dates. 10:01:58 the reader can only be used to read strings (or streams) that follow cl's syntax rules. 10:02:04 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 10:02:22 this has nothing to do with evaluation. 10:02:30 Ok, what should I be using? I'll look it up, etc. I just don't know where to start. 10:03:16 Well... heh.. I guess I could start at google with "'common lisp' parse string' and maybe a couple others until I get what I'm looking for. 10:03:22 you need to parse your string explitly. there are tons of options, like regular expressions (cl-ppcre) or splitting (split-sequence). there are also parsing libraries. 10:03:43 if what you're doing is parse dates, have a look at local-time which is the recommended date and time handling library. 10:03:52 (recommended by me) 10:04:30 Naw, the value of the date isn't so important just yet. I'm parsing imap responses. It will be, so I'll add that to my notes, but for now I'm just trying to fix clonsigna 10:04:52 Noted. Thanks for the help, H4ns. 10:04:59 good luck 10:07:19 clintm: it might be informative to you to play around with the functions from the reader dictionary section of the hyperspec (what you were using that you didn't want) 10:07:23 and the functions with read in their name from the streams dictionary of the hyperspec (probably lower level than what you want) 10:07:26 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 10:08:49 clintm: e.g. the functions from http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_reader.htm read lisp syntax and return lisp objects 10:12:04 -!- Vivitron` [~Vivitron`@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: trivial-irc-0.0.3] 10:17:27 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 10:28:42 SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:29 -!- MonsterWithin [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:30:20 pjb: yes 10:30:27 fe[nl]ix: tfeb.org 10:36:03 umm, the trade off between mutable state or cons'ing, decisions decisions 10:36:54 I'm a little biased at the moment though because I ended up debugging an issue for quite sometime because I forgot to mutate the state 10:39:10 I was working with a Haskell'er recently and I think some of his disdain for mutable state rubbed off on me 10:39:38 -!- Kuloto [~mro@176.20.pool.kuban.skylink.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:40:39 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.201.23.5] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 10:42:59 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 10:50:29 MonsterWithin [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 10:51:34 -!- wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:58:24 -!- Spaceghostc2c [u5056@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zomwfsxacwyvwwvk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:58:24 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ejmcgsoxafjguhsw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:24 -!- dotemacs [u801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zomyenhlasogokcl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:58:25 -!- denysonique [u484@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-medrdukmeqxicypn] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:58:25 -!- varjagg [u4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jhdxsycjtvtlbmnv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:58:26 -!- rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ykxkmwpmlmgiuaeb] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:26 -!- Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dhoyhrgkesfrgmcc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:58:26 -!- NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-esmifcmwpktvyrfm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:21 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 10:59:45 varjagg [u4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-smvkmtrihjohaeos] has joined #lisp 11:01:43 Spaceghostc2c [u5056@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vmydpiqiiafghnjk] has joined #lisp 11:01:43 -!- Spaceghostc2c [u5056@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vmydpiqiiafghnjk] has quit [Changing host] 11:01:43 Spaceghostc2c [u5056@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has joined #lisp 11:01:43 -!- Spaceghostc2c [u5056@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has quit [Changing host] 11:01:43 Spaceghostc2c [u5056@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vmydpiqiiafghnjk] has joined #lisp 11:03:58 wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:06:52 Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rviehnebnuqvazde] has joined #lisp 11:07:41 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-025-033.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:52 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-45-15.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:12 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-29-37.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:12:38 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:15:13 rj-code [~rj-code@bb219-75-77-233.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 11:18:51 rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uassviorgglqdvld] has joined #lisp 11:19:58 Hello. 11:20:08 Is there any cl-irc user? 11:21:41 -!- MonsterWithin [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:22:27 MonsterWithin [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 11:22:38 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-025-033.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:22:49 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:52 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:25:35 WARNING: START-BACKGROUND-MESSAGE-HANDLER has been deprecated and 11:25:36 is up for removal in a next release. 11:25:50 So, which function should I use? 11:28:23 theron [~theron@dslb-084-060-180-027.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:36 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:30:39 pavelpenev [~quassel@212.233.134.172] has joined #lisp 11:33:30 -!- clintm [~cmoore@131.191.81.250] has quit [Quit: clintm] 11:35:26 agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:33 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 11:45:39 urandom__ [~user@p54B0EF62.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:48 dotemacs [u801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-scjasvtbvqidmnhy] has joined #lisp 11:56:09 MHD [50478707@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.71.135.7] has joined #lisp 12:02:16 -!- MHD [50478707@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.71.135.7] has left #lisp 12:03:08 -!- wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:06:07 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-235-116.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:11:19 wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:50 NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bbndbzujyscwqgqp] has joined #lisp 12:16:39 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-138-199-104.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:18:27 -!- alvis` [~user@tx-184-6-177-129.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:20:40 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-195-212.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 12:27:01 denysonique [u484@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oickqqwmjfhrwkwe] has joined #lisp 12:28:01 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lnoxedfpzdzsxzlh] has joined #lisp 12:29:03 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-61-54.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 12:33:58 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.63] has joined #lisp 12:37:07 -!- wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:47:15 sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 12:52:34 -!- pierre__ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-102-104.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:52:41 pierre__ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-31-142.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:52:56 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-61-54.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:55:21 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 12:58:14 *pavelpenev* is enjoying reading postmoderns dao-class metaclass definition as an example in his clos and mop study 12:59:45 -!- saschakb_ [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:11 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc1-sgyl27-2-0-cust785.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:05:02 -!- jdz [~jdz@89.201.99.128] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 13:09:03 disciple [~krishna@117.201.23.5] has joined #lisp 13:09:15 *pavelpenev* thinks studying the mop is a great way to procrastinate before _very_ important math exams, doesn't let schooling interfere with education :) 13:10:47 *Bacteria* concurs 13:11:07 *Bacteria* is reading about CLOS instead of writing his thesis 13:11:11 Vivitron` [~Vivitron`@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:18 tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.62.2] has joined #lisp 13:20:26 ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has joined #lisp 13:21:24 ticking [~janpaulbu@p5B3CA0C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:05 *easye* stirs. 13:23:27 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:33 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:24:27 francogrex [~user@109.130.91.200] has joined #lisp 13:24:31 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 13:24:44 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.91.200] has quit [Client Quit] 13:25:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-169.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:26:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-169.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:26:06 francogrex [~user@109.130.91.200] has joined #lisp 13:26:38 what do you recommend as a relatively advanced lisp book (not for beginners) 13:26:40 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 13:28:18 On Lisp is an advanced lisp book, and still the best treatment of macros. 13:30:50 ok I was thinking about that also 13:31:17 how about the book of clos ? 13:32:43 I used keene when I was learning CLOS 13:37:17 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 13:37:20 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 13:37:41 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:38:11 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 13:38:24 -!- MonsterWithin [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:38:31 wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:56 pavelpenev: +1 13:40:44 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-172-136.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:41:04 redline6561: currently watching your talk, cool shit man. 13:41:48 pavelpenev: Thanks! :) 13:42:10 Going to give another one at a Lisp meetup (rather than work/pythonistas) next month. May delve deeper into implementation details. 13:42:11 which talk? 13:42:47 redline6561: I'm only at the 13 minute mark 13:42:49 Fade: http://vimeo.com/47364930 13:43:07 excellent. I was looking for something to watch while the coffee kicks in 13:45:17 I've been thinking about the flat tire quote a lot lately too, isn't that just a variation of greenspuns 10th rule? The browser being a slow, buggy, poorly specified implementation of half of a lisp machine :) 13:46:36 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 13:47:04 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@p5B3CA0C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:50:01 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.218] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 13:50:51 vaus [~vaus@222.Red-83-33-87.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:17 PuercoPop_ [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 13:51:24 -!- PuercoPop_ [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has left #lisp 13:52:38 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:41 -!- wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:53:02 pavelpenev: Heh. A bit, yeah. 13:54:29 billyoc [~user@cpe-68-174-120-10.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:47 ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:18 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.91.200] has left #lisp 14:03:44 -!- ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ipmonger] 14:03:45 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:04:07 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-172-136.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:05:13 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:09:46 ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:56 ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has joined #lisp 14:11:03 I would have been happier with the state of affairs int the browser if javascript had been left as a Scheme. 14:11:30 -!- ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:35 Well ... /yeah/ 14:11:49 ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:22 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-61-54.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 14:12:27 when I was first learning javascript I had this moment that was defined by two revelations: "Hey, this language doesn't _suck_ ... holy shit, it's basically scheme." 14:13:25 Fade: a very bad scheme, but scheme non the less :) 14:13:30 bingo 14:15:46 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.54] has joined #lisp 14:15:55 A friend is currently(meaning right now, in the room with me, shouting obscenities at his computer) struggling with grease monkey, it seems very lispy, in the sense that you load code dynamically, and work in a live environment 14:17:42 heh. That's the compelling thing about the browser. They /sort of/ got it right. :-/ 14:18:04 too bad about all the bloody syntax. 14:18:16 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:04 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:19:31 redline6561: sometimes getting it _sort of_ right is even more infuriating, because you think of what it could have been. 14:20:05 Oh, definitely. I would say that's almost always the case. Outright suckage at least keeps you mired in thoughts of how awful it is. :) 14:20:13 if its just shit, you don't think much of it 14:24:36 redline6561: nice talk. kudos. 14:25:00 Fade: Thanks! 14:25:38 guess you won't be finishing your weblocks blogs. :) 14:25:59 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-059-111.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:22 hahaha 14:26:26 Not anytime soon, I'm afraid. :) 14:26:51 I only mention it because I'm suddenly looking at weblocks for an actual system, and the documentation frontier has not expanded. :) 14:26:55 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:27:44 -!- billyoc [~user@cpe-68-174-120-10.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:28 pnq [~nick@AC820331.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:28:28 -!- pnq [~nick@AC820331.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:28:28 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 14:28:40 MonsterWithin [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 14:30:02 Yeah. lpolzer would be a better resource than me. 14:30:13 Of course, the best resource is probably still the mailing list. :) 14:30:34 I went looking for the list yesterday, and all I found was the google group. 14:30:59 I did some minor hacking with restas recently and found it pleasant. Also, quite well documented Fade. Not continuation-based but that doesn't bother me. Might even be a plus. :P 14:31:34 the system I'm looking at his highly stateful. I sketched it in UCW two years ago, but UCW is two years further fallow. 14:32:03 s/his/is 14:32:36 Yeah... 14:32:44 restas is pretty sweet 14:33:02 -!- Vicfred [~Grothendi@189.143.130.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:33:11 the continuations approach is nearly ideal for a system that's highly stateful. 14:33:35 if I was just going to use a route dispatcher to some handlers, I'd probably use mongrel2 14:34:39 Sure. 14:37:13 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.54] has quit [Quit: lirt] 14:37:46 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:38:30 hiyosi [~hiyosi@116.121.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:42:17 nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has joined #lisp 14:42:56 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-059-111.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:43:56 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:17 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:45:25 the links in your talk are excellent. I hadn't seen this lively kernel talk. 14:45:35 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:46:19 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 14:46:48 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:47:18 ngz [~user@27.100.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:31 Yeah, there are some really cool papers linked too. I hope people enjoy the slides and find useful stuff in there. 14:48:31 Fade: If you haven't seen Michael Steil's talk on the 6502 from CCC I can't recommend it highly enough. It's actually linked in the presentation as the image of the 6502 chip. 14:48:45 s/the/my/ 14:48:46 I'll check it out. 14:48:56 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Client Quit] 14:49:58 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 14:51:28 _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:39 Forty-3 [~seana11@75-145-119-42-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:44 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.129.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:57:42 syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:57:43 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 14:59:15 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 15:00:18 andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has joined #lisp 15:02:12 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129063152.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:03:55 redline6561: what you mention at the end about growing with your language mirrors my experience, the main reason I jumped from python to scheme to clojure and now to CL was precisely because I've outgrown them with experience, and was looking for something that fits the way I think, rather than just using whatever is "objectively" better. 15:04:37 Yeah. It is originally something that vsedach said or blogged. 15:04:57 It surprised me in that he was advocating CL as a beginner's language but the core argument rang very true. 15:05:05 the language adapting to me is pretty much the best thing about CL, rather than its impressive feature list or whatever 15:05:12 Bingo. 15:07:39 its a bit like the framework vs library debate, you don't want too much structure imposed on your thinking, you want the structure to come out organically from your problem 15:08:50 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:09:07 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:10:18 Yep. 15:15:51 Also on the "biggest mistake of smalltalk", maybe you can have your cake and eat it too, a sufficiently introspective system might be able to reconstruct its source forms, instead of having to sync source and internal representation(how often have you reloaded code into a fresh image and have it not work :), I don't know if the old systems did something like that. Theres also the problem of revision control and things like that. 15:16:50 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 15:20:12 Sure. If designed right... 15:21:56 Fade: http://www.biwascheme.org/ 15:22:30 ha! nice :) 15:24:22 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:40 doesn't work in conkeror :( 15:26:42 ticking [~janpaulbu@p5B3C9BEA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:46 -!- theron [~theron@dslb-084-060-180-027.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:28:22 Hunh, just got a pull request on a library that I figured no one else would ever use. 15:31:18 ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:32:05 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:33:35 redline6561: hm, just remembered Marco Baringers talk about web development(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0Pxj5FUHKk), where he talked about reconstructing your model from the DB schema, and I think he mentioned the same issue with migrations. 15:35:11 pavelpenev: the main problem with decompiling vs. source file is in the management of dependencies. The compiled form has establised circular dependencies, but to be able to load a set of source files, you must have a DAG (and establish the circularities after loading). Well, I guess one could write a system smart enough to break the graph in a DAG + circular links to be added post loading. 15:35:48 sellout42: Ya just never know with open source. :) 15:36:52 redline6561: Yeah, I try to publish everything  hoping that no one will be as crazy as me, but figuring that if they are, at least I can prevent code duplication ;) 15:37:13 haha 15:37:13 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:37:33 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.106.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:37:47 No one should have to write this ugly hack ever again! :) 15:38:33 theron [~theron@dslb-084-060-180-027.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:37 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:41:03 pjb: I didn't take an optional graph theory course just because it was taught by one of the few competent teachers in my school(yes I did :), I took it because it's useful to know what a DAG is :) 15:41:16 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:41:45 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 15:41:56 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176324022.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:43:21 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:45:35 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:19 -!- andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has quit [Quit: andres-v] 15:49:08 blbef [~chatzilla@089144206153.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:56 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:09 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@p5B3C9BEA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:56 DT`` [~ea@87.18.9.77] has joined #lisp 15:56:12 hello. 16:00:09 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 16:03:48 hello there 16:05:02 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:05:17 xorox90 [~xorox90@116.41.83.8] has joined #lisp 16:05:21 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:05 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 16:09:21 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:11:38 -!- ehu` is now known as ehu 16:16:33 petekaz [~user@99-99-189-187.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:11 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:17:13 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:18:37 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:18:53 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:19:07 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:20:49 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 16:20:57 ehu: is the repository at svn.common-lisp.net still the canonical location for abcl? 16:21:10 yes. 16:22:42 thanks 16:24:18 -!- MonsterWithin [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:25:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:28:54 ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has joined #lisp 16:29:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:30:38 ivan-kan` [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 16:31:44 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:32:03 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 16:34:25 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 16:40:34 andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has joined #lisp 16:44:09 -!- andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has quit [Client Quit] 16:55:55 lmj_ [~lmj@c-76-127-174-97.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:01 Does anyone happen to have Allegro? 16:58:10 Allegro 9.0 SMP 16:59:02 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:59:41 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-230-023.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:01 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 17:02:54 I wonder how much Allegro is used outside of their commercial clients. Their mailing list archive is a broken link, and the gmane mirror has no traffic for almost 3 years. 17:03:57 -!- vaus [~vaus@222.Red-83-33-87.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:04:48 not much 17:06:41 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-220-48.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 17:09:33 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-160-241-11.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:28 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:08 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:00 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:10 -!- ivan-kan` is now known as ivan-kanis 17:20:23 Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 17:21:29 what might be a good use of change-class? 17:25:42 I gave one not long ago: proxies. 17:26:41 Or you could have a database of persons for health services, (defclass male (human) ()) (defclass female (human) ()) and suddenly a law is passed to finance sex-change operations. 17:26:50 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 17:27:20 change-class is the coolest thing in CLOS. 17:29:49 pavelpenev: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle-ellipse_problem#Change_the_programming_language 17:29:54 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:10 pjb: thats definitely a memorable example :) 17:30:11 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:31:28 -!- xorox90 [~xorox90@116.41.83.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:24 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-182-69.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:35:31 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 17:35:37 ipmonger_ [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:28 pavelpenev: I'd have another example, but that'd be more like science fiction 17:36:47 pjb: change-species? :) 17:37:32 Imagine a merge between two companies that use lisp for their databases. So you have to merge the employees OODBs. Then a set of change-class to convert the classes of one DB into the other DB would come handy. 17:37:55 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:00 Of course, finding TWO companies using a CL OODBMS for their employee database is totally irrelalist in this universe, so it has to be scifi. 17:38:13 maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 17:38:20 Perhaps the merge is between the company and itself sent back in time, or something. 17:39:42 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:39:42 -!- ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:39:42 -!- ipmonger_ is now known as ipmonger 17:40:21 I'm not sure what to do with this bug report for Allegro 9.0 SMP on Mac. I suppose I'll post to the questionably existent mailing list. 17:40:47 They have professionnal services for that! 17:41:00 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:41:03 Well I'm not a customer, just a guy with a bug report. 17:41:31 Contrarily to Microsoft, they're people friendly, even non customers. 17:42:01 lmj_: http://www.franz.com/support.lhtml seems to exist 17:42:27 it even links to http://www.franz.com/support/reporting.lhtml 17:43:23 Yes, I've reported bugs to them before, and they are friendly. But I am reluctant to do so unless I can prove it's their bug. 17:44:18 well, let them decide 17:47:19 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 17:47:34 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:48:12 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 17:49:33 Yeah I'll just contact support. 17:50:10 It may be fixed anyway; report was for 9.0 beta which worked on Linux. 17:54:47 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:55:37 -!- petekaz [~user@99-99-189-187.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Rebooting .. kernel upgrade] 17:57:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:01:44 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:03:09 -!- mirTapir [vutral@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:03:18 mirTapir [vutral@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has joined #lisp 18:04:58 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:37 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:07:46 bitonic [~user@host86-138-97-34.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:16:23 steffi_s [~marioooh@rrcs-50-74-184-170.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:17:14 -!- reactormonk [~tass@cpe-70-116-15-3.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:17:24 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:24:07 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:45 pjb: do you have any recommendations for an OODBMS? I've tried rucksack, but with heavy use it constantly got corrupted 18:25:26 thinking about using elephant now, but not sure if that's a good idea either because it's not actively maintained 18:27:08 snearch [~snearch@pD4B887CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:38 rucksack's corruption did seem to be my fault though... I was using a VM with only 256 ram and consing like crazy... inferior-lisp crashed of course and I was left with an unusable object store 18:38:10 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 18:39:51 -!- optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176324022.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:42:35 No recommendation here yet. 18:42:49 okay, thanks for the response 18:45:05 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 18:45:24 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 18:46:21 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 18:48:19 madrik [~user@122.168.252.29] has joined #lisp 18:48:21 *pavelpenev* likes postgresql with postmodern, not really a oodbms though 18:49:25 -!- ngz [~user@27.100.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:27 ngz` [~user@27.100.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:48 I'm pretty sure I was misusing rucksack anyway... for the particular thing I was storing flat files actually make a whole lot more sense. I'm thinking I'll probably use flat files to store blog articles as well. 18:50:23 ...and I wonder if rucksack:rucksack-rollback following the crash would have solved my problem anyhow? 18:54:02 I might really just go with postmodern as well though, since that seems to be what everyone else is using... kind of like how I switched from ccl to sbcl as my primary implementation 18:55:15 anyone else not able to load cl-opengl on ecl ? 18:55:36 it's like taking 1000 hours, and i think it stalls somewhere in between.... 19:00:21 it takes 41 days and 16 hours? 19:01:04 seems so 19:01:14 dunno what the problem is 19:07:02 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.201.23.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:07:52 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.137.41] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 19:08:36 disciple [~krishna@117.201.23.5] has joined #lisp 19:08:55 i already load it as the first lib, and disabled clx therefore....but still, it takes sooooo looooong...... 19:09:15 i mean external lib, other then ecl interl ones i mean..... 19:09:45 I am impressed by your patience if you waited more than a month for a system to load 19:12:33 Ralith: but *teapots*! 19:12:56 41. days. 19:13:23 so why is it so slow ? 19:13:49 dude, clx has also a gl part, it takes just a few minutes...... 19:14:36 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:14:48 now it's stuck at cl-opengl-bindings.....guh 19:15:57 <|3b|> cl-opengl has a lot more gl than clx does 19:16:10 ah 19:16:31 <|3b|> what do you mean by 'stuck at cl-opengl-bindings'? 19:17:15 well the progress ellipses like (...) are not progressing anymore.... 19:18:08 wbooze: heh, I just tried to load cl-opengl on ecl in Mac OS X and I got an error message relating to cffi.... I give up 19:18:35 naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-344-195.w90-41.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:18:42 oh my quicklisp does the recursive depends correctly.... 19:18:50 dunno why you don't have it... 19:19:07 could be that I installed ecl from darwin ports 19:19:10 probably out of date 19:19:16 wbooze: just built ecl from source(pulled from svn), installed it, installed quicklisp and loaded cl-opengl on linux x86_64 19:19:17 i passed cffi already am at cl-opengl-bindings, that's where it stalls now 19:19:40 i got ecl-12.7.1 19:19:50 from sourceforge, the tarball 19:19:56 yep, it's out of date alright. 12.2.1 19:21:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:26:26 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:28:17 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.227] has joined #lisp 19:31:43 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@rrcs-50-74-184-170.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 19:34:06 -!- mindCrime [~prhodes@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:36:46 That reminds me -- does anyone use MKCL? It doesn't pass basic threading tests, so I've ignored testing against it for now. 19:37:07 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 19:37:13 At least as far as threading goes, it seems to be an old ECL. 19:41:16 -!- snearch [~snearch@pD4B887CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:41:45 wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:51 snearch [~snearch@pD4B887CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:54 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@212.233.134.172] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:42:00 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.252.29] has left #lisp 19:42:06 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 19:43:12 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:43:37 -!- snearch [~snearch@pD4B887CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:44:50 wbooze: fwiw I just loaded cl-opengl now on ecl 12.7.1 / Mac OS X 19:45:01 and ? 19:45:08 so it is fast thereover ? 19:45:25 wbooze: was a little slow on cl-opengl-bindings, but not that bad.... I'll restart and try again now that everything's compiled 19:45:25 hmmm, maybe i should disable sse here then.... 19:45:41 i'm on a purely 32bit ffi.... 19:46:07 maybe that's the issue and i enabled sse, which requires maybe unusual load and stalls.... 19:46:09 annnnd on a second load took 0.1 seconds 19:46:27 sse works more 64bit wise i think... 19:46:40 sounds like it could be it 19:47:12 that may be it....but otherwise the other clx and graphical examples in eql, embedded ecl in qt works here just fine 19:47:22 hmmmm 19:53:01 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:10 yep, it maybe that there were truncations..... 19:54:15 very possible.... 19:54:35 ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has joined #lisp 19:54:54 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-138-97-34.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:55:34 one more possibility, i built ecl with --with-clx maybe that's where the problems begin..... 19:55:39 -!- agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:55:41 yep 19:56:54 agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:15 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:46 redscare [~user@ool-435634f3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:51 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:00:54 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@138.Red-79-157-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02:46 bitonic [~user@host86-154-96-82.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:15 wbooze: I can see why http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Library_for_Cross_Platform 20:03:30 "However, due to lacklustre performance on Windows, subtle differences from VCL, and bugs, it didn't become the expected successor to VCL. Commercial failure of Kylix stopped further development of CLX." 20:03:35 abeaumont_ [~Alfredo@138.Red-79-157-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:29 <|3b|> minion: tell joekarma about clx 20:04:29 joekarma: please look at clx: CLX provides an implementation of the X Window System protocol to Lisp graphics library[ies] and applications. http://www.cliki.net/clx 20:04:53 ahhh 20:04:58 that makes more sense 20:05:45 ehem 20:06:03 never hear of clx before eh ?! 20:06:07 lol 20:06:13 guilty 20:07:05 I wonder why if clx can be quickloaded ecl would have a --with-clx switch at all? 20:07:31 doesn't it have its own clx? it's a library with a lot of versions 20:07:54 I guess it must 20:12:37 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 20:13:30 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: be back in a while] 20:13:48 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:15:44 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 20:17:22 anon119 [~androirc@c-98-238-210-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:18 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:25 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:55 eheh 20:22:06 -!- wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:23:35 Rajesh [~Rajesh@117.203.8.198] has joined #lisp 20:23:59 -!- Rajesh is now known as Guest94817 20:24:00 -!- anon119 [~androirc@c-98-238-210-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:25:05 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:29 lispm [~lispm@g224127008.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:29:50 andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has joined #lisp 20:30:06 adam7504 [~adam@212.183.140.0] has joined #lisp 20:35:50 -!- andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has quit [Quit: andres-v] 20:35:53 -!- adam7504 [~adam@212.183.140.0] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 20:39:49 centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-182-69.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:24 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:50 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:43:03 joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has joined #lisp 20:43:41 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.201.23.5] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 20:43:46 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 20:48:29 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-61-54.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:50:25 -!- mirTapir [vutral@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:51:38 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:58:13 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224127008.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 20:59:05 andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has joined #lisp 21:01:46 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-61-54.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:01:58 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:02:57 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 21:07:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-169.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:50 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-61-54.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:12:12 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:15:51 It's not immediately clear what stefil is doing with swank. It seems to use it for inspection, but I don't see the purpose or effect yet. 21:20:49 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:22:11 -!- Tapioco [~quassel@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:53 Posterdati [~tapioca@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:25:34 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:08 callen [~callen@unaffiliated/callen] has joined #lisp 21:26:20 mindCrime [~prhodes@ip-64-134-182-170.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:56 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 21:31:01 syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:31:27 -!- Guest94817 [~Rajesh@117.203.8.198] has quit [Quit: Leaving to Quit] 21:36:58 -!- abeaumont_ is now known as abeaumont 21:37:56 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-230-023.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:41:25 -!- theron [~theron@dslb-084-060-180-027.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:41:33 petekaz [~user@99-99-189-187.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:50 Compiling fiveam tests is expensive when test compilation is enabled. I suppose delayed compilation is the default because of large expansions. 21:42:13 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:45:01 There aren't many viable alternatives, though. I am considering using fiveam with IS aliased to ASSERT. 21:45:49 Or seeing if the expansion size can be reduced. 21:46:56 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.237] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:14 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.237] has joined #lisp 21:48:38 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-61-54.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:49:34 Posterdati [~tapioca@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:52:02 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-220-48.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:49 reactormonk [~tass@cpe-70-116-15-3.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:57:15 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@138.Red-79-157-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:38 abeaumont [~Alfredo@138.Red-79-157-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:49 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:01:28 wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 22:02:44 -!- petekaz [~user@99-99-189-187.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: reboot] 22:03:09 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:05:32 Posterdati [~tapioca@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:09:40 leoncame` [~user@219.142.133.155] has joined #lisp 22:11:19 -!- tkd [~tomek@tlahuizcalpantecuhtli.wa.ht] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:19 -!- leoncamel [~user@219.142.133.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:19 -!- NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bbndbzujyscwqgqp] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:11:42 tkd [~tomek@tlahuizcalpantecuhtli.wa.ht] has joined #lisp 22:13:02 NimeshNeema_ [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lxybhumeyptunndp] has joined #lisp 22:14:03 anon119 [~androirc@c-98-238-210-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:13 _travis_ [~nonya@184.21.230.132] has joined #lisp 22:17:50 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 22:18:47 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 22:19:31 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@184.21.230.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:20:37 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:21:21 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:23:06 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.166.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:04 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:28:49 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:32:03 -!- andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has quit [Quit: andres-v] 22:36:00 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 22:37:43 -!- anon119 [~androirc@c-98-238-210-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:16 ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has joined #lisp 22:38:59 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 22:41:54 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:06 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc1-sgyl27-2-0-cust785.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:33 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-154-96-82.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:46:40 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:51:20 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 22:52:01 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:04 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:15 mindCrime_ [~prhodes@ip-64-134-182-170.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:37 -!- mindCrime [~prhodes@ip-64-134-182-170.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:53:39 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:53:46 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:54:57 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:00:29 -!- mindCrime_ [~prhodes@ip-64-134-182-170.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:02:02 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:05:21 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:06:24 -!- SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:27 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 23:13:09 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: dobranoc] 23:16:01 ChoHag [~mking@static45-85.adsl.bogons.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:54 Is there any feature of cons cells which would be lost if the underlying data structure were a nested list/array, as implemented by most modern languages (perl, python, etc)? 23:18:57 <|3b|> not sure exactly what you mean, but maybe shared structure? 23:19:17 I'm not sure exactly what I mean either. That's what I'm trying to find out. 23:19:25 <|3b|> also probably improper lists 23:19:32 sellout42 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:18 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:23:33 -!- sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:24:19 -!- ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ipmonger] 23:25:59 <|3b|> unless you mean actually replacing individual cons cells with a 2-element array or some non-cons list type, then using them as normal, in which case you just lose efficiency (not counting issues with distinguishing types) 23:28:07 -!- urandom__ [~user@p54B0EF62.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:13 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 23:28:30 <|3b|> the only real 'features' a cons has on its own are ability to store 2 values, and ability to distinguish it from other types 23:28:44 I mean if you were implementing lisp in a moden language it would make sense to use the language's list as the underlying data structure. 23:29:12 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:12 Except for those features of using a real SLL that you mentioned. 23:29:25 <|3b|> it might, but doing so might affect how you would use the resulting language 23:30:40 ChoHag: the asymptotic time and space complexities of cell-based lists vs. vector-based lists are totally different. 23:30:42 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:30:58 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:8fc:67d:6801:1b0d] has joined #lisp 23:32:03 Right, so since vector lists would most likely be fast, and the majority of cons cell uses are as lists, might it not make sense to use the underlying list type with, if if's possible, some logic to detect the obscure conditions? 23:32:29 pskosinski [~pk@public-gprs413607.centertel.pl] has joined #lisp 23:33:12 ChoHag: if you want vectors, just use vectors? 23:33:46 ChoHag: you're aware that CL has more data structures than just lists, right? 23:33:52 Well yes, except lisp doesn't have them. 23:34:04 OK the core of lisp doesn't. 23:34:11 oh boy. 23:34:13 ChoHag: err, no. In general, all operations on vectors are MUCH slower than on list. Most operations on lists are O(1), while most operations on vectors are O(n). 23:34:14 what are you talking about? 23:34:22 I'm not so interested in using lisp for anything right now. I'm just playing around with the language. 23:34:23 ChoHag, even Scheme has vectors. 23:35:08 Well, I guess it's a bit interesting to wonder how evaluation works with nested arrays instead of tress, but it doesn't affect the reality too much 23:35:09 ChoHag: The core of Common Lisp has a bunch of data structures. I don't know if rNrs does, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does. 23:35:18 Lisp is 5 (7?) functions defined by McCarthy. Everything else can be implemented using those. Most implementations today do so in the language they're written in (ie. C) rather than lisp. 23:35:29 incorrect 23:35:38 yeah, yeah, and you can implement forth in brainfuck, who cares 23:35:42 I do. 23:35:47 -!- agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:35:48 ChoHag: whatever other language you're thinking about is 4 functions defined by Turing. Have fun. 23:35:58 "I'm just playing around with the language" 23:36:09 that's just anonymous functions in lambda calculus, pjb. 23:36:21 you're playing around with a different one, this one is for programming 23:36:21 ChoHag: Sorry, your definition of Lisp is based on something not very widely accepted at this point. :) 23:36:22 Why exactly are you being a cunt? 23:36:29 DT``: Tell thast to ChoHag. 23:36:34 I don't give a shit about lisp implementations. I know enough other languages to do useful work already. 23:36:51 ChoHag: with only the 4 Turing Machine operators? 23:36:57 I have no plans to use Lisp for anything, I'm teaching myself all the mathematical and/or computational underpinnings. 23:37:08 pjb: he's pretty hardcore, what do you expect? 23:37:32 so learn lambda calculus, that's the math. it's not very related to real programming 23:38:09 23:38:52 So: Is there any particular reason why lisp, as defined (minimally) in the 50s, would have to be implemented as a linked list of cons cells or is that just a side-effect of it being implemented on the particular hardware it was at the time (and trying to define it in Maths rather than Computer)? 23:39:10 -!- pskosinski [~pk@public-gprs413607.centertel.pl] has quit [Quit: I've got a feeling there's a fish in the floor; I'd better squish it or he'll swim out the door; Sometimes they take me for a walk in the sun; I see my fish and I have to run] 23:39:42 ChoHag: you are smoking some powerful stuff there, brah. 23:39:50 Well, with your restrictive definition of "core lisp" using anything but conses would be inaccurate, but there's no reason you couldn't implement something like it with arrays, I don't think 23:39:55 you see your fish and have no fun! 23:40:12 bloody kinski! 23:40:17 lol 23:40:34 I am indeed, but that's between me and my tin of sticky green goodness. 23:40:45 At the same time I like to tease my brain with stupidly difficlt problems. 23:40:59 ChoHag: find a stupidly difficult problem, then. 23:41:03 I did. 23:41:04 ChoHag: go read AIM-8. http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/aim-8/index.html 23:41:07 it's not a difficult problem. Try implementing such a thing yourself, you might have fun. 23:41:10 ChoHag: where is it? 23:41:11 I came here with part of it. 23:41:24 ChoHag, I don't think there's a particular reason, other than the fact that LISP stands for LISt Processor. 23:41:40 DT``: Thankyou. 23:41:50 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:58 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.151.83.119] has joined #lisp 23:43:07 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.94] has joined #lisp 23:48:43 dude, it's a matter of seconds to load cl-opengl in sbcl, yet in ecl it takes ages.... 23:48:52 i do't get it 23:49:19 ChoHag: your idea about what lisp is is like the idea ancient Egyptians had of geometry, its technically correct, but in the ages between their era and ours we have expanded our knowledge tremendously. 23:50:29 Yeah, now we have calculi with other greek letters :D 23:50:37 wbooze: loading compiled code is fast. that's why those files are named FASL. 23:50:50 Get it? FASt Load! 23:50:52 pi calculus is the new thing, isn't it 23:51:17 Bike: It's pretty old. There are better things. Join calculus seems pretty hot, but also not very new. 23:51:40 but is "join" a greek letter? 23:51:41 *pavelpenev* still has trouble with the Newton/Leibniz calculus 23:51:42 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:51:45 Pi calc is definitely a good place to start learning about process calculi. 23:52:01 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:24 Well yes I know that. 23:52:24 Bike: Well, we ran out of those  should have been using Chinese this whole time ;) 23:52:36 At this level lisp doesn't even have numbers. 23:52:50 Numbers are when maths starts to get boring though. 23:53:03 so, imagine asking a professional mathematician about egyptian fractions. You see why our reactions are a bit rude. 23:53:43 ChoHag: Contrary to what many math inclined students(i went to a humanities focused high-school) computing is more about people and dealing with their stupidity(literally), than about math 23:54:17 Steve jobs called the computer a bicycle for the mind, I call it a wheel chair 23:54:18 sellout42: and so, we come back to Leibniz, eh 23:54:18 that is a very interesting statement 23:54:38 I have been a systems administrator for 15 years. 23:54:42 I know. 23:54:47 pavelpenev: life support. 23:55:02 Without it you have vegetables. 23:55:15 There is a reason why my pointlessly difficult problem is as far removed from computing as something on a computer can be. 23:55:40 It's really not that difficult, you should be able to implement it yourself without much trouble. 23:56:03 ChoHag: is it a good reason? 23:56:15 ChoHag: just read AIM-8. 23:56:31 Bike if I asked a mathematician about Egyptian fractions, I would expect him to be polite. 23:56:42 I expect everybody to be polite. It's what being polite is for. 23:56:53 -!- djanatyn [~user@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:55 Of course, as my profession indicates, I am aware that people are unfortunately people. 23:57:08 Thankyou for reminding me what I have to look forward to at 9 AM tomorrow. 23:57:17 well, yes, but it's still annoying to be asked about it as if it's important, is what I meant. I'm sorry for apparently irritating you. 23:57:31 It's Sunday. 23:57:37 Who does anything important on a Sunday? 23:58:35 ChoHag: I do, I don't believe in holidays 23:58:41 ChoHag: it's Monday here. 23:58:43 I mean, you referring to your problem as difficult, referring the programming language we use as not lisp/pointless/nonexistent, etc