00:00:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-169.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:53 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 00:04:15 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:06:36 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128072141.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:19:13 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:23:21 -!- apathor [~apathor@24.218.104.106] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:24:30 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 00:28:58 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:27 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 00:31:57 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.201.21.149] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 00:32:27 proby [~megabrake@unaffiliated/megabraker] has joined #lisp 00:32:53 hello , guys is there any good introductary books about AI in Lisp? 00:33:51 AIMA, I think? 00:33:53 -!- harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:34:06 there's one named "you'll get thorn apart into 1001 pieces!" ! 00:34:12 lol 00:36:40 proby: PAIP 00:36:43 -!- proby [~megabrake@unaffiliated/megabraker] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 00:36:54 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 00:38:18 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 00:48:48 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:02 ipmonger_ [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:30 -!- ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:59:30 -!- ipmonger_ is now known as ipmonger 01:07:06 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:10:55 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:11:10 lcc_ [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 01:11:28 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Quit: kcj] 01:12:06 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:12:31 -!- paradoja [~paradoja@acceso-cmp174-200.lpa.idec.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:15 Guthur [~user@host86-160-241-11.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 01:16:58 -!- fsmunoz [~user@bl7-99-229.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:19:46 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:21:36 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 01:23:15 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:29 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:23:48 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:28:20 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 01:32:32 marcux [~marco@177.32.182.96] has joined #lisp 01:34:12 baronnax [~baronnax@host86-145-186-233.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 01:36:24 I was quite surprised that COPY-SEQ, when applied to a vector, does not copy the fill-pointer. Is there a way to acheive this differently? 01:37:38 By which I mean the copied vector no long has a fill-pointer, so it does not appear that I can just SETF it. 01:39:10 pjb2 [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 01:40:13 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:40:51 leo2007 [~leo@216.185.105.36] has joined #lisp 01:40:56 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-108-200-140-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 01:52:42 -!- lcc_ [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:53:01 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 01:53:03 -!- marcux [~marco@177.32.182.96] has quit [Quit: marcux] 01:53:24 marcux [~marco@177.32.182.96] has joined #lisp 01:54:52 -!- marcux [~marco@177.32.182.96] has left #lisp 01:55:00 marcux [~marco@177.32.182.96] has joined #lisp 01:56:00 -!- shifty` [~user@114-198-35-89.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:59:53 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-pzhxecwtkloqhzkr] has joined #lisp 01:59:58 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-pzhxecwtkloqhzkr] has quit [Client Quit] 02:01:18 baronnax: you could use make-array 02:01:26 -!- marcux [~marco@177.32.182.96] has quit [Quit: marcux] 02:03:56 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:14:10 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:16:56 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@187.172.100.56] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:28:52 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-20-1.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:31:50 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.202.189] has joined #lisp 02:33:22 -!- quasisan1 is now known as quasisane 02:34:46 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:55 springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has joined #lisp 02:42:02 Bike [~Glossina@207-224-20-1.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:05 kanedank [~kanedank@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:45 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If 50 people /msg fn-troll he will quit trolling forever] 04:46:00 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 04:47:03 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:47:33 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:48:07 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 04:48:17 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:50:58 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 04:51:25 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 04:52:45 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Client Quit] 04:53:07 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 04:55:10 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:38 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-108-200-140-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 04:55:43 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[~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-149-194.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:10:18 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.134.196] has joined #lisp 05:14:51 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:14:53 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 05:15:50 -!- jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:21:09 shinta42 [~shinta42@123.120.76.26] has joined #lisp 05:21:49 in slime i compiled file, how come when i run a particular function it still didnt load up all the other functions or values from before? 05:22:24 i mean i evaluate a particular function via C_M_X 05:22:40 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:23:12 I don't understand your question. 05:23:37 in my lisp file i have defined many functions 05:23:53 i moved cursor to one of the functions later on and tried to evaluate 05:23:54 it 05:24:09 it caused problem because the functions/values from before weren't loaded up 05:24:23 i thought compile file were suppose to loadup everything from before? 05:24:51 so you did C-C C-k and then C-M-x? 05:25:09 or did you just compile it and not load it, maybe. 05:25:23 ack 05:25:24 this worked 05:25:30 i was doing C-C M-K 05:25:36 thanks! 05:28:04 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.34.226] has joined #lisp 05:34:10 disciple [~krishna@117.201.21.149] has joined #lisp 05:35:44 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:38:10 ehu [~ehuels@089144206206.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:55 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.177] has joined #lisp 05:48:32 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.201.21.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:48:50 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:50 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 05:50:21 disciple [~krishna@117.221.131.100] has joined #lisp 05:53:37 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 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[~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 06:53:14 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:53:22 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: fn-troll really wants you to message him] 06:53:30 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 06:53:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@216.185.105.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:53:45 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 06:54:30 -!- gekko_ [~jjk@78.157.103.6] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:55:37 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 06:55:37 -!- pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:56:45 -!- aerique_ is now known as aerique 06:58:27 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:59:12 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128072141.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 06:59:43 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:02:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:02:17 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 07:02:25 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.221.131.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:02:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-169.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:03:58 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:04:25 disciple [~krishna@117.221.131.100] has joined #lisp 07:04:43 Any thoughts on whether this is compliant or not (find-method #'some-fun nil '(t (a integer))) 07:04:59 some-fun is specialised on second arg with class integer 07:05:16 this works find in SBCL but I know LispWorks does not allow it 07:05:37 it expects T to be class 07:06:09 ie. (find-class t) 07:06:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-40.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:06:27 there is a class named CL:T in Common Lisp, yes. 07:06:52 adeht: I know, but the symbol T is not that 07:06:57 but why do you have (a integer) instead of integer 07:07:10 which is the reason I think LispWorks baulks at it 07:07:20 Guthur: I think you should pass the classes themselves 07:07:24 adeht: either would do 07:08:21 oh ignore that either and the (a integer) 07:08:36 sorry misread the spec example on that 07:08:44 (find-method #'some-fun nil (mapcar #'find-class '(t integer))) 07:09:04 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-172-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:09:32 adeht: but does that mean SBCL is not being as strict as it should 07:09:58 Guthur: if it "works", yep 07:10:11 it does indeed work 07:10:27 at least in 1.0.55 07:10:28 -!- YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:05 I'll raise a ticket for it 07:15:21 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:16:37 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:16:38 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 07:21:15 -!- sabalaba1 [~Adium@2602:306:cfc8:8c30:5c48:290d:5dd1:8fbd] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:23:44 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-233-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:29 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 07:26:55 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.68.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:26:59 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:31:55 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-31-211.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:37 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:37:52 Jasko [~tjasko@ip-64-134-226-163.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:23 umm, it would appear that ccl also does not strictly comply 07:39:46 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 07:43:26 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 07:44:12 ...and neither does ABCL 07:45:05 seems like LispWorks may be the only implementation that has interpreted the spec for #'find-method in this way 07:51:20 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:56:11 sabalaba [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:57:09 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-20-1.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:58:55 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 07:59:09 -!- emma is now known as em 08:02:30 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:03:10 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:10:11 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 08:10:47 anthracite [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/anthracite] has joined #lisp 08:17:35 -!- Guthur 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iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 10:15:46 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 10:16:37 Guthur: implementations are free to have such extensions, on the only condition that they be documented. 10:16:57 Guthur: so the fix for the implementors, if needed, could just be to write it up in the documentation. 10:17:20 Guthur: it's up to your conforming programs, not to use such extensions: your programs must be strict too! 10:17:37 Hence the importance of precise reading of CLHS. 10:21:36 pjb: Agreed. 10:21:54 Not sure if it is documented by the other implementations 10:22:59 I got caught out with this recently. I don't usually run on LispWorks, and had used the SBCL extension in some of my code. 10:23:55 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:23:59 r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.126.144.200] has joined #lisp 10:29:16 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-169.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:29:25 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 10:29:44 On the other hand, that's the problem of those extensions: you may use them inadvertently. There should be a -strict flag, or a (declare (optimize (strict 3))) option :-) 10:30:25 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-097.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:20 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Client Quit] 10:32:05 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 10:32:54 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 10:34:32 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-sdkfdxnowcqfcvxw] has joined #lisp 10:34:32 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-sdkfdxnowcqfcvxw] has quit [Changing host] 10:34:32 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:34:47 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 10:40:30 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:23 -!- SeySayux [SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has left #lisp 10:48:45 ice [~ice@123.114.43.142] has joined #lisp 10:48:48 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:52:03 add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-240-188.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:52:51 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.177] has joined #lisp 10:57:06 SeanTAllen [~SeanTAlle@cpe-98-14-198-83.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:58:09 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:25 Is there a format directive that allows a character to be print x number of times 11:00:46 the equivalent of (format t "~A~%" (make-string 30 :initial-element #\-)) 11:02:18 (let ((n 4) (c #\x)) (format nil "~V,,,V<~>" n c)) => "xxxx" 11:03:19 lol, format has some insanely cryptic directives going on 11:04:06 (format nil "~V,,,'0<~D~>" 4 -42) => "0-42" ; reminds you something? 11:04:54 -!- SeanTAllen [~SeanTAlle@cpe-98-14-198-83.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: SeanTAllen] 11:05:10 A brainfuck inspired language maybe? hehe 11:05:22 pjb: it works though, cheers 11:05:42 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zijmtoijjigcrlfn] has joined #lisp 11:05:47 -!- pjb2 [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: from bedside laptop.] 11:07:43 pjb: what exactly is the ~V, I'm trying to find the documentation in the spec 11:09:37 -!- PissedNu1lock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:09:57 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 11:11:42 -!- chr``` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:14:24 mike4_ [~mike4_@gateway/tor-sasl/mike4/x-38362156] has joined #lisp 11:18:01 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@75-142-48-121.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:20:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-169.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:21:24 -!- anthracite [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/anthracite] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24:55 Guthur: v modifies the real control character 11:25:13 Guthur: (format t "~3T") is the same as (format t "~vT" 3) 11:26:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:27:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:28:50 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 11:29:21 chr``` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 11:33:45 ngz [~user@27.100.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:09 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 11:36:19 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:36:53 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 11:37:51 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 11:38:43 lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:23 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46:17 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-097.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:50:25 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128072141.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:56:23 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-envfwnuezsmlmyjl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:56:30 -!- ice [~ice@123.114.43.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:56:42 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:57:09 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 11:57:11 Guthur: it's a little down arrow that shows where to place the parameter. 11:57:22 Guthur: or it stands for Variable parameter. 11:57:22 ice [~ice@123.114.43.142] has joined #lisp 11:59:44 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:00 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:00:59 Guthur: In the hyperspec, it's mentioned in 22.3 Formatted Output; "In place of a prefix parameter to a directive, V (or v) can be used. ..." 12:01:49 -!- ice [~ice@123.114.43.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:02:15 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:30 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:31 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:52 ice [~ice@123.114.43.142] has joined #lisp 12:07:22 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:09:06 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-31-211.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:09:28 agumonkey [~agu@233.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:37 PissedNumlock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 12:10:37 What do you think about generate-large-reversal in https://github.com/pkhuong/Napa-FFT3/blob/master/bit-reversal.lisp ? 12:11:29 what should we think? 12:11:43 Yes, what do you want to think about it? 12:12:02 stassats: well, IMHO, that's not code which is meant to be understood by anyone else. 12:12:23 stassats: sure, there are some variable names, but it's rather long for just one function. 12:12:28 It's a sophisticated algorithm, but the code seems understandable. 12:12:46 Well, that happens with some algorithms. 12:13:02 fasta: so, why don't you write better code? 12:13:05 pjb: there are always ways to split up things. 12:13:33 Also, screens have become bigger, so the screen-size limit for functions has enlarged. 12:13:33 pjb: if it's about variable binding and scope, you can pass things in records incrementally. 12:14:06 fasta: actually, you can use emacs outline mode to hide unimportant internal sexps. 12:14:25 pjb: oh, that's sort of interesting. 12:19:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-169.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:20:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-169.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:20:37 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-154-2.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:44 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-klfudeokbwkxlqyh] has joined #lisp 12:23:44 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@mailout.faxonline.at] has joined #lisp 12:23:55 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@mailout.faxonline.at] has quit [Client Quit] 12:25:26 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-154-2.as43234.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:25:44 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-154-2.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:28 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-186-203.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 12:32:38 pjb: not too much with people sticking to the 80 column rule... :) 12:32:49 That too :-) 12:33:17 At least for lisp code, with increased length of symbols and depth of sexps, it's inconvenient. 12:33:26 I use half a screen-width instead. 12:34:24 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:35:09 pjb: I don't really have a rule, but rather a shortcut to toggle line wrapping and try to keep complicated parts of the code from becoming too wide 12:35:43 also, screen-size varies wildly between laptop with and without attached screen... :) 12:36:17 Also, changing font size can help. 12:36:40 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:37:23 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 12:37:34 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 12:37:43 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:38:05 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:44 I'd have thought the issues with that file would be in emit-swaps, or in the "why" of generate-large-reversal, not the "how". 12:40:00 fsmunoz [~user@bl7-189-116.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 12:40:55 my issue is "i don't know a thing about Fourier Transforms" 12:43:26 neither do I! That file is about generating bit reversals, a nifty permutation of a vector's elements, even outside FFTs. We can use it do interleave vectors, or even transpose matrices, in place when the sizes are powers of two. 12:53:49 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75fa6b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:50 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:59:31 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:55 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 13:01:29 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:02:32 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.221.131.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:03:11 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 13:03:25 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 13:04:17 disciple [~krishna@117.221.131.100] has joined #lisp 13:05:53 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:18 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:34 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-178-166.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:13:06 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:13:45 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:56 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-klfudeokbwkxlqyh] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:14:58 -!- baronnax [~baronnax@host86-145-186-233.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 13:16:42 -!- ice [~ice@123.114.43.142] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:19:03 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@87.247.56.102] has joined #lisp 13:19:33 pjb: chr```: cheers re V control char 13:20:26 -!- wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-131-45.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:23:07 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:23:17 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@87.247.56.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:27:35 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-026-129.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:11 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:28:15 ice [~ice@222.130.141.245] has joined #lisp 13:31:44 seabass [~seabass@c-98-229-120-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:58 -!- vaus [~vaus@255.Red-88-18-194.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: vaus] 13:38:45 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.0.112] has joined #lisp 13:38:50 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.0.112] has quit [Client Quit] 13:39:24 Could someone recommend a tutorial on debugging lisp when using emacs / slime? 13:40:00 The slime manual? 13:40:06 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-178-166.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 13:42:51 i can only recommend getting years of experience 13:42:57 I was hoping for something with a little more meat. The manual is quite terse wrt the debugger. 13:44:03 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-pbdxinryfaofcfsc] has joined #lisp 13:44:08 -!- r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.126.144.200] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 13:44:24 seabass: basically, you move the cursor down the frames, type RET to see the local bindings, and type v to jump to the source. You may evaluate expressions with e in a give frame, but it's a little more delicate than what you can do in clisp debugger. When you've gathered enough information, you may choose a continuation typing a number, or moving the cursor on it and typing RET. 13:44:42 You can also use i to inspect some object. 13:47:52 -!- ice [~ice@222.130.141.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:47:56 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 13:49:54 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 13:52:54 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:53:20 pjb: Yeah, the inspector is super useful. What I'm trying to suss out now is how to set break points and step through functions. 13:55:17 clhs break 13:55:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_break.htm 13:55:22 ice [~ice@222.130.141.245] has joined #lisp 13:55:33 stepping isn't really good 13:55:41 It is in some implementations 13:56:07 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:56:08 in slime in general 13:56:13 The sad thing is that I think I remember reading that the first stepping debuggers were lisp 13:56:52 in emacs in general, really. gud-mode breaks constantly with C programs 13:57:56 maybe stepping is indispensable with C, but i don't really miss it in CL, since i can easily redefine functions to print things i need 13:59:41 -!- ice [~ice@222.130.141.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:01:04 kingofcsu [~king@124.89.45.178] has joined #lisp 14:01:08 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 14:01:30 -!- kingofcsu [~king@124.89.45.178] has left #lisp 14:02:41 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-178-166.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:04:37 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:06:45 stassats`: maybe it's a chicken and egg issue. 14:07:07 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:58 maybe, but i have no motivation whatsoever for working on a stepper 14:12:07 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-160-241-11.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:22 _travis_ [~nonya@c-98-244-123-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:04 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:17:27 LaughingMan_ [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 14:18:07 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:30 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:36 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.177] has joined #lisp 14:18:37 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-105-51.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:18:45 ivan-kan` [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 14:19:08 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 14:19:17 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 14:19:18 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:19:23 -!- LaughingMan_ is now known as LaughingMan 14:19:38 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:20:44 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-154-2.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 14:21:37 kushal [~kdas@114.143.166.253] has joined #lisp 14:21:37 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.166.253] has quit [Changing host] 14:21:37 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:24:51 maxm- [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 14:25:05 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:08 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-126-94.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:35 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:37 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:31:51 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-026-129.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:34:15 -!- nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@smtpbt.pramati.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:03 -!- sweet_kid [convex@irc.upasna.in] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:35:12 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:36:29 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Client Quit] 14:36:57 changedNicks [tireman@irc.upasna.in] has joined #lisp 14:38:22 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:38:28 is there some channel extra for X Windows System ? 14:39:04 Avishek12 [Avishek12@117.201.105.164] has joined #lisp 14:39:45 -!- changedNicks [tireman@irc.upasna.in] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:40:07 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:39 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 14:40:40 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 14:40:40 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:41:56 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:42:57 changedNicks [Jeanne@irc.upasna.in] has joined #lisp 14:45:59 do you mean X Window System? 14:46:20 :D 14:46:21 -!- changedNicks [Jeanne@irc.upasna.in] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:46:38 -!- nagato [~stardivin@122.236.251.170] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 14:46:41 And what is a channel extra? Some kind of British actor? 14:46:50 yes :D 14:47:11 channel, extra.... 14:47:13 more like the bonus content on a dvd. 14:47:45 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.68.89] has joined #lisp 14:48:05 ... dedicated channel ... 14:48:27 changedNicks [Falco@irc.upasna.in] has joined #lisp 14:48:37 -!- tsuru``` is now known as tsuru` 14:49:16 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 14:49:32 Greetings lispers 14:49:59 -!- Avishek12 [Avishek12@117.201.105.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:50:18 nanoc [~conanhome@190.15.210.144] has joined #lisp 14:50:46 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 14:51:26 -!- changedNicks [Falco@irc.upasna.in] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:52:27 changedNicks [exudence@irc.upasna.in] has joined #lisp 14:53:08 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-105-51.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:53:08 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:53:08 -!- c_arenz 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[u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-efnglwafqhobcbzt] has joined #lisp 14:59:46 -!- Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-efnglwafqhobcbzt] has quit [Changing host] 14:59:46 Gurragchaa [u6439@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 14:59:46 -!- Gurragchaa [u6439@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Changing host] 14:59:46 Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-efnglwafqhobcbzt] has joined #lisp 14:59:47 wbooze: CDE has just been open-sourced, check it out 15:00:48 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:18 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:32 Bike [~Glossina@207-224-20-1.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:49 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:04:56 I was looking at that, largely because I thought it was funny. 15:05:05 CDE is an awful interface. :) 15:05:19 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-233-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:27 I wonder if it means that motif has been opened. 15:05:38 Motif has been open for a long time 15:05:50 its almost as exiting as lispworks open sourcing lucid would be :) 15:05:51 -!- kwmiebach [kwmiebach@37-188-126-213.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:59 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 15:06:39 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 15:06:42 Bike_ [~Glossina@207-224-20-1.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:15 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-20-1.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:07:18 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 15:07:22 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:09:01 "You can have 'Open Genera' why you pry it from my cold, dead, hands!" 15:09:27 -!- NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zunmpezgohqxfkmm] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:09:51 speaking of which, i have this dec alpha with an opengenera license for sale. pre-owned by well-known lispers, in good shape, with symbolics keyboard. 15:10:14 H4ns: Autographed? ;-) 15:10:48 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:11:06 NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-esmifcmwpktvyrfm] has joined #lisp 15:11:14 oh 15:11:19 thank you 15:11:28 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 15:11:41 H4ns: how much are you asking for it? 15:12:44 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:10 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:13:50 Fade: 300 euros obo 15:14:12 which alphastation is it? 15:14:29 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:38 pics or it didn't happen! 15:14:42 500au iirc, but i'll have to look at it to find out how much ram and disk it has. 15:14:50 *nod* 15:15:02 saschakb 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[~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:07:02 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:07:38 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:20 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:12:33 disciple [~krishna@117.221.131.100] has joined #lisp 18:12:42 -!- sweet_kid [osmate@unaffiliated/changednicks] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:13:46 -!- seabass [~seabass@c-98-229-120-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: woosh.] 18:15:58 changedNicks [ansar@irc.upasna.in] has joined #lisp 18:17:21 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:19:22 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 18:20:30 the state of clojure survey results are in: http://cemerick.com/2012/08/06/results-of-the-2012-state-of-clojure-survey/ interesting observation, for the last 3 years although only a very small part of clojure users come from common lisp, 24% of them claim they would use it if clojure suddenly disappeared. I didn't wait for it to disappear. 18:21:28 -!- changedNicks [ansar@irc.upasna.in] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:21:34 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:21:53 ebobby [~fms@38.111.144.18] has joined #lisp 18:23:13 clojure as a gateway drug ;) 18:23:29 this is your brain on lisp 18:23:32 fsmunoz: it was for me. 18:23:37 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-pbdxinryfaofcfsc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:23:58 well, no self-respecting CL person would take clojure seriously 18:23:58 fsmunoz: i started with scheme, but completely failed to think of lisp as a practical language until i encountered clojure 18:24:32 stassats`: as a lisp, yes, as a language, it ain't that bad, compared to most other ones :) 18:25:14 pavelpenev: I understand, clojure puts some interesting arguments on the table. 18:25:28 changedNicks [lifehold@irc.upasna.in] has joined #lisp 18:25:37 do they steel keep doing backwards-incompatible changes? 18:26:09 CL is unchanged for almost 15 years! nobody will remove functions under your feet 18:26:11 stassats`: don't know, but my guess would be yes. clojure is a baby lisp, i'd be more worried if the didn't 18:26:32 *they 18:27:09 common lisp had decades of incompatible changes and dozens of dialects before it got standardized. 18:27:16 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-247-252.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:13 well, that's exactly why i didn't use it back then! 18:29:20 ThomasH` [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 18:29:59 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-247-252.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:30:09 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 18:30:32 ``Erik_ [~erik@pool-108-3-186-191.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:36 froggey_ [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 18:30:49 Yahovah_ [yann@orion.pi.edu.pk] has joined #lisp 18:31:02 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:31:07 miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-228-225.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:08 -!- ThomasH` is now known as ThomasH 18:34:40 Bike_ [~Glossina@207-224-20-1.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:48 one sign that clojure is doomed: emacs usage droped by 10% since last year, Eclipse gains 4% and just using the command line repl gains 5% 18:36:37 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:36:51 -!- mirTapir [vutral@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:36:51 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:36:51 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.68.89] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:36:58 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:36:59 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:37:02 -!- jdz [~jdz@89.201.99.128] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:37:03 -!- ameoba_ [~ameoba@71-20-29-59.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:37:15 tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.68.89] has joined #lisp 18:37:15 mirTapir [vutral@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has joined #lisp 18:37:21 jdz [~jdz@89.201.99.128] has joined #lisp 18:37:33 ameoba_ [~ameoba@71-20-29-59.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:50 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-136-142.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:37:56 i would ditch emacs at the first opportunity too 18:37:59 Posterdati [~tapioca@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:38:09 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:38:11 for eclipse? 18:38:12 -!- froggey_ is now known as froggey 18:38:24 no... 18:38:28 If zmacs comes back from the dead, yeah :) 18:38:42 Gurragchaa_ [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dhoyhrgkesfrgmcc] has joined #lisp 18:38:56 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 18:39:04 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:39:05 -!- ryan_k [~user@2607:f298:2:120::69c:4502] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:39:05 -!- xristos [~x@research.suspicious.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:39:05 -!- Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-efnglwafqhobcbzt] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:39:05 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-20-1.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:39:05 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-108-3-186-191.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:39:05 -!- miql [~miql@ip98-165-228-225.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:39:05 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:39:05 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:39:05 -!- Yahovah [yann@orion.pi.edu.pk] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:39:05 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.121] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:39:13 -!- daimrod [~daimrod@sbrk.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 646 seconds] 18:39:13 eMBee [~eMBee@46.4.240.198] has joined #lisp 18:39:13 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@46.4.240.198] has quit [Changing host] 18:39:13 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #lisp 18:39:13 Praise [~Fat@cl-447.trn-01.it.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:14 -!- Praise [~Fat@cl-447.trn-01.it.sixxs.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:39:14 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 18:39:34 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:36 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 18:39:45 -!- xristos is now known as Guest57950 18:39:50 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.121] has joined #lisp 18:40:31 daimrod [~daimrod@sbrk.org] has joined #lisp 18:40:59 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 18:41:05 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.202.189] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 18:41:33 -!- Guest57950 is now known as xristos` 18:42:04 -!- xristos` is now known as xristos 18:43:06 LiamH [~healy@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 18:46:34 GrayMagiker [~Steve@c-76-113-10-226.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:11 mickbeaver [~mickbeave@216-136-25-2.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:29 -!- jdz [~jdz@89.201.99.128] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 18:49:47 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-136-142.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:49 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:54:13 rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 18:54:41 stassats`: under what conditions? 18:57:30 Houl [~Parmi@194.94.79.219] has joined #lisp 18:57:30 -!- Houl [~Parmi@194.94.79.219] has quit [Changing host] 18:57:30 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 19:00:14 -!- changedNicks [lifehold@irc.upasna.in] has quit [Changing host] 19:00:14 changedNicks [lifehold@unaffiliated/changednicks] has joined #lisp 19:00:22 -!- changedNicks is now known as sweet_kif 19:00:24 -!- sweet_kif is now known as sweet_kid 19:02:39 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.221.131.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:04:14 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:04:20 disciple [~krishna@117.221.131.100] has joined #lisp 19:06:36 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-136-142.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:06:46 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:07 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 19:12:51 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.68.89] has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 19:13:05 tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.68.89] has joined #lisp 19:16:16 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:44 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-136-142.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 19:18:26 Ryan_K [~user@2607:f298:2:120::69c:4502] has joined #lisp 19:20:30 -!- Gurragchaa_ is now known as Gurragchaa 19:20:45 -!- Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dhoyhrgkesfrgmcc] has quit [Changing host] 19:20:45 Gurragchaa [u6439@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 19:20:45 -!- Gurragchaa [u6439@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Changing host] 19:20:45 Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dhoyhrgkesfrgmcc] has joined #lisp 19:23:02 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@198.24.31.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:23:14 -!- BountyX [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:38 -!- rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:30:29 dlowe: something better surfaces 19:30:42 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-206-43.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 19:33:06 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33:35 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 19:35:37 Ralith [~ralith@67.101.126.22] has joined #lisp 19:40:20 -!- stassats` changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.58, Hunchentoot 1.2.3, Drakma 1.2.6, ABCL 1.0.1, CMUCL 20c 19:40:41 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128221077.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 19:40:56 rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 19:44:01 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 19:47:37 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 19:56:56 -!- ivan-kan` [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:58:32 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: dobranoc] 19:59:28 wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-131-45.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:00:15 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:00:48 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-1dcce155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:06 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-126-94.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:09:30 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:10:15 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:11:01 Natch [~Natch@c-1dcce155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:12:46 whitedawg1 [~suraj@122.178.222.146] has joined #lisp 20:15:29 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:15:30 -!- whitedawg [~suraj@122.179.39.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:15:52 -!- rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 20:15:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-39.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:31 sabalaba [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:17 -!- hagish [~hagish@p57BCFBD1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:18:16 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has joined #lisp 20:22:29 GreenGoblin [~GreenGobl@c-66-30-175-232.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:33 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:22:54 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-172-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:22:58 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has joined #lisp 20:23:06 -!- GreenGoblin [~GreenGobl@c-66-30-175-232.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 20:24:43 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:28:16 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:28:18 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.34.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:28:44 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has joined #lisp 20:28:45 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.121] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 20:29:09 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.121] has joined #lisp 20:29:44 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:30:24 nice 20:31:42 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.221.131.100] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 20:33:21 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:33:25 PuercoPop420 [~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has joined #lisp 20:33:41 clintm [~cmoore@001e52f0de2b.click-network.com] has joined #lisp 20:34:40 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:34 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.177] has joined #lisp 20:38:46 -!- PuercoPop420 [~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:39:44 release notes? 20:41:48 what are structs useful for? I've never used them, and rarely seen them used. 20:42:26 pavelpenev: when you *really* want simplistic (internally) and *fast* record types 20:42:38 when you want structured things but not the complications of the class system? 20:42:50 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has joined #lisp 20:43:03 so when I'm optimizing? 20:43:12 pretty much when you finished developing, sure about your design, and micro-optimizing 20:44:08 no 20:44:15 when you know that you want a structure 20:44:18 simple as that 20:44:27 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:44:33 and not something else, yeah 20:44:47 ah, its one of those "if you don't know don't use it" situations again. I hate those :) 20:45:06 <_travis_> my understanding is that structs have a very basic/limited purpose. 20:45:25 not really 20:45:31 most important difference with structures is that by default their accessors are inlined 20:45:43 <_travis_> oh 20:45:44 basically compilers are allowed to assume that once you defined a structure, it won't change again, in the same image, and re-defining it has undefined behavour 20:45:44 p_l|abdn: not really 20:45:52 p_l|abdn: but they can be inlined 20:46:24 and nothing stops you from inlining CLOS accessors 20:46:35 so when iteratively developing something, classes are much better idea, since adding/removing slots at runtime is fine 20:46:45 stassats`: weren't they by default in most implementations, due to aforementioned allowance? 20:47:06 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:48:15 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has joined #lisp 20:48:16 Is there a way to approximate INITIALIZE-INSTANCE :AFTER with structs? I can foresee some cases where I'd probably want to switch to structures, but I rely on inherited initialization behavior and am not sure how to accomplish the same with structures. 20:48:23 there are no allowances, really, redefining structures is just undefined 20:48:37 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@541AB7C3.cm-5-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 20:48:43 ThomasH: do it in the constructor 20:48:52 ThomasH: there's no inheritance anyhow 20:49:44 stassats`: What do you mean there's no inheritance? If I have an I-I :AFTER method on a class, any subclasses will get that initialization as well. 20:50:16 weren't you talking about structures? 20:50:58 Talking about how to convert objects that rely on I-I :AFTER behavior to structures. 20:51:12 pavelpenev: structures are single inheritance. classes are multiple inheritance. 20:51:27 ThomasH: let me make myself clear: there's no inheritance in structures 20:51:51 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:52:06 stassats`: Understood. I'm not sure how to make myself clear, so I'll just move on. 20:52:19 pjb, stassats` I'm confused now :) 20:52:57 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-122-17.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:53:01 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@c-98-244-123-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:53:02 ThomasH: you can't make yourself clear, because you can't translate CLOS inheritance to structures 20:53:21 (defstruct animal () color) (defstruct (cat (:include animal)) legs) (defmethod move ((self animal)) nil) (defmethod move ((self cat)) (when (eql :red (animal-color self)) (agitate (cat-legs self)))) 20:53:45 stassats`: you're wrong, that's why you can't make yourself clear. 20:53:55 pjb: yes, just checked that with the hyperspec 20:54:17 pjb comes up with weirdest examples :-) 20:54:24 *maxm* goes to agitate his cat 20:54:30 pjb: please, enlighten me 20:54:32 the red one only. 20:54:40 defstruct :include = inheritance. 20:56:05 maxm: well, the hyperspecs example is an astronaut whose favorite beverage is tang ?!? 20:56:11 pjb: it's not CLOS inheritance 20:56:49 there is no way stassats can get out of this.. he clearly stated there is no inheritance in structures, without clarying that he meant "clos type inheritance" 20:57:55 i clearly stated "you can't translate CLOS inheritance to structures" 20:58:00 pavelpenev: you pretty much learned everything there is about it.. For stroctures there is no initialize-instance or in fact any other protocol.. You can specify custom constructors, so its create-something instead of make-, and also specify constructors that use positional parameters for slots, rather then keywords 20:58:55 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-212-207.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 20:58:56 stassats`: Scenario is this -> (1) I have CLOS objects that rely on I-I :AFTER method combination; (2) I decide, for whatever reason, that I want to convert those objects into structures; (3) is there some mechanism I can use that will provide me with initialization of the structures with roughly the same behavior as I-I :AFTER method combination on the objects? 20:59:28 you would your initialization in the constructor function 20:59:31 pavelpenev: the rest of it is stassats / pjb being bored and, now that stassats is 1 out of 100 times wrong, rest of the channel is entertained by him trying to get out of it 20:59:56 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:10 ThomasH: no generic mechanism other then you defining your own protocol (for example reserving a slot for an initialization callback, then calling them yourself from constructors) 21:01:45 or actually using defgeneric and calling that generic from constructors 21:02:01 maxm: Thanks, that was what I suspected. 21:02:16 stassats`: what is it if it's not inheritance? http://paste.lisp.org/display/130890 21:02:25 and CLOS inheritance even!? 21:03:09 i can't do (:include animal furry) 21:03:14 Eulo [~Eulo@78-72-37-188-no21.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 21:03:15 That's what I said. 21:03:23 remember: pavelpenev: structures are single inheritance. classes are multiple inheritance. 21:03:48 that's what i meant, the original question was about translating CLOS objects to structures 21:03:51 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 21:04:03 and i'm deeply sorry i haven't been 100% formally correct with that statement 21:04:23 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has joined #lisp 21:04:58 sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 21:05:46 stassats`: it's difficult discussing with hackers, all this formalities. But at least we don't end fighting it out with punches :-) 21:07:27 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:38 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:08:37 I'm a little surprised at the structures chapter in the hyperspec, it immediately drops you into the dictionary. I was expecting a little discussion and examples, other than the dictionary entries. 21:08:46 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:09:06 ThomasH: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_defstr.htm this is what i've been reading 21:09:08 the page on defstruct describes everything 21:09:09 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:55 -!- Eulo [~Eulo@78-72-37-188-no21.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:11:20 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:30 and even not being multiple inheritance, it doesn't give you good single inheritance either 21:12:45 you can't redefine inherited slots, for example 21:12:46 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:13:25 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@190.15.210.144] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 21:13:52 No, it doesn't and you can't. 21:14:06 wait, you can 21:14:14 And you cheat a little by using CLOS defgeneric/defmethods. 21:14:41 but you need to do it directly in include 21:14:50 in :include 21:16:07 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 21:16:10 (defstruct (cat (:include animal (color "gray" :type string))) legs) 21:16:12 -!- theron_ [~theron@dslb-084-060-180-027.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:16:25 That's cool, isn't it? :-) 21:16:38 but wait 21:16:49 I should ask somewhat obvious questions more often, this is getting good :) 21:16:58 -!- LiamH [~healy@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:17:15 Yes, we're rereading clhs defstruct for you, so WE're doing the learning instead of you. 21:17:37 I'm following CLHS as well 21:17:43 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:43 Good! :-) 21:17:49 (defstruct animal (color nil :type integer)) and (defstruct (cat (:include animal (color "gray" :type string))) legs) don't make sbcl happy 21:18:06 That's to be expected. 21:18:08 The type declarations T and NIL for #:DUM0 conflict. 21:18:15 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 21:18:17 You could use :type vector in animal, and :type string in the subclass. 21:18:20 and error message is not the best 21:18:49 Lyskoff substitution principle, and all that. 21:19:12 right, but i want to shoot myself in the foot 21:20:23 You're just checking how good or bad your implementation is. 21:20:31 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-240-188.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:21:11 the defstruct page links to 18 cleanup issues, I don't think I've come across that many for a single page before 21:25:18 stassats`: myeah, there's some weirdness in the way type declarations are inserted when generating constructors, and tiny changes prevent some transforms to fire, yielding a bogus function. 21:26:51 filed as https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/1033674 21:27:16 well, there's ;; XXX: notify? where it sets the type to NIL 21:27:29 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:38 line 879 in defstruct.lisp 21:27:41 Eulo [~Eulo@78-72-37-188-no21.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:51 not type, but, well, you see in the code 21:30:04 maybe we shouldn't emit that warning when the user's code already declares a NIL type. 21:32:37 pkhuong: well, it also declares the type which the accessor from the included type can return 21:32:42 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:32:42 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:32:42 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 21:33:45 yes? 21:34:28 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:35:00 and i copied the wrong test-case 21:35:04 -!- wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-131-45.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:35:18 it was string, not NIL originally 21:35:22 (edited the bug) 21:35:34 wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-132-233.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:35:38 (defstruct foo (color nil :type nil)) errs on its own 21:36:03 -!- atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving, leaving, gone...] 21:37:37 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 21:38:10 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@n1164922157.netvigator.com] has quit [Quit: ] 21:38:33 stassats`: bad syntax. 21:38:46 err, no. 21:38:56 s/errs/warns/ 21:38:58 the type nil has no values, so it's impossible. 21:39:15 try: (defstruct foo (color nil :type null)) 21:39:19 but it's still correct 21:39:33 as long as you don't (make-foo). 21:39:42 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:39:46 as long as you don't (foo-color (make-foo)) 21:40:04 although clhs is vague on this 21:40:15 No, if you (make-foo), it must assign a nil to a field of type nil, and this can't be done. 21:40:40 a field of type nil could very well not be allocated in the structure. 21:42:04 "it is implementation-dependent whether the type is checked when initializing a slot or when assigning to it." You might be thinking of &aux bindings in boa constructors. 21:42:07 For example, (make-array 0 :element-type nil) is valid. But (make-array 1 :element-type nil) is not. 21:42:22 "The restriction against issuing a warning for type mismatches between a slot-initform and the corresponding slot's :type option is necessary because a slot-initform must be specified in 21:42:23 order to specify slot options; in some cases, no suitable default may exist." 21:42:44 O 21:42:51 I'm not discussing when the error is reported. 21:43:04 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has joined #lisp 21:43:23 The warning isn't about a type mismatch with the initform, but with the two type declarations. 21:44:58 i.e. the warning isn't that "gray" isn't of type NIL, but that the intersection of INTEGER and NIL is the bottom type, NIL. Like I said, maybe we shouldn't emit that warning when the intersection already contains NIL... but emitting a warning because the constructor will never execute successfully seems reasonable. 21:45:03 bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:45:19 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:41 pkhuong: i changed it STRING 21:45:55 in the bug description, i pasted the wrong example 21:46:06 same. intersection of STRING and INTEGER is NIL. And then, I see no problem with warning. 21:46:18 Forty-3 [~seana11@198.24.31.70] has joined #lisp 21:46:32 right, i'm just saying that there should be no confusion that "gray" is not of type NIL 21:47:29 well, one can signal the warning where ;; XXX: notify? is, but what to do with mismatching types? 21:48:10 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-186-203.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:49:34 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 21:50:55 stassats`: I don't follow what you think the confusion is... 21:52:12 pkhuong: possible, that the error i originally reported might be misinterpreted as the conflict between "gray" NIL, when it should have been "gray" and STRING and the only possible conflict would be between STRING and INTEGER 21:52:16 so, it really doesn't matter 21:52:20 and let's go to #sbcl 21:52:21 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:53:17 milanj 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