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Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.195.67] has joined #lisp 01:43:47 optikalmouse [~yaaic@bas1-toronto07-1176315513.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:44:08 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 01:45:08 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:46:33 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:32 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:48:59 sabalaba [~Adium@2602:306:cfc8:8c30:8c7b:d0bf:70b4:2fde] has joined #lisp 01:56:15 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-148-74.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:56:50 springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has joined #lisp 02:03:11 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:03:22 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:07:13 -!- smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:09:53 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 02:10:39 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:17:07 _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:12 -!- momo-reina [~user@122.179.52.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:53 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:18:07 _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:29 <_travis_> the OOP section of PCL is making my head spin :\ 02:19:17 persevere 02:19:34 minion: please tell _travis_ about Keene 02:19:34 _travis_: have a look at Keene: "Object-Oriented Programming in Common Lisp: A Programmer's Guide to CLOS" by Sonya E Keene. http://www.cliki.net/Keene 02:19:48 is that still recommended? 02:19:57 eh? 02:20:10 it's the best there is! 02:20:22 minion: AMOP 02:20:23 AMOP: The Art of the Metaobject Protocol, an essential book for understanding the implementation of CLOS and advanced OO. See the specification of MOP at http://www.lisp.org/mop/ 02:20:29 and this, when you're serious 02:21:09 <_travis_> stassats: lol thanks :) 02:21:51 <_travis_> that second link is dead :\ 02:21:57 <_travis_> minion fix the amop link 02:22:02 <_travis_> o.O 02:22:34 I thought I heard it was outdated, something like that 02:23:41 minion: amop? 02:23:41 amop: The Art of the Metaobject Protocol, an essential book for understanding the implementation of CLOS and advanced OO. See the sepcification of MOP at http://www.alu.org/mop/ 02:25:43 <_travis_> :o 02:26:05 <_travis_> bookmarked both. thank you stassats 02:26:07 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-prjenasthuxvduzt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:26:56 order it on amazon! 02:27:01 didn't lisp.org have something on it before? 02:27:43 it has paste.lisp.org and planet.lisp.org 02:30:07 <_travis_> stassats: i will - when i get to the point where i'm ready to read it. i still have some other books to read after this :) 02:31:14 -!- blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:34:15 kevinyings [~aprilthir@218.108.89.46] has joined #lisp 02:36:17 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has joined #lisp 02:36:43 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-196-191.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:17 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-47-248.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:40:56 -!- optikalmouse 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quit [Quit: rtj] 04:37:14 stlifey [~stlifey@116.19.143.92] has joined #lisp 04:40:20 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:09 pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 04:52:57 shinta42 [~shinta42@123.120.71.2] has joined #lisp 04:54:36 in http://pastebin.com/7EkFyMqs, line 9, what is passed into label's (obj) argument 04:54:38 ? 04:55:40 you mean at-loc-p's argument? see http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw51/CLHS/Body/f_rm_rm.htm 04:56:30 and: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw51/CLHS/Body/26_glo_s.htm#satisfy_the_test 04:57:14 bike:thanks 05:03:22 -!- felideon [~felideon@184.170.255.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:03:43 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:04:37 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:05:24 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:05:48 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.19.143.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:06:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:06:45 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:08:02 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-155.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 05:09:50 eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has joined #lisp 05:11:19 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-155.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 05:12:18 bike:actually i want to know what is passed into obj 05:12:41 Was that not answered? 05:13:36 bike:cant understand it..i am a super noob 05:14:02 what's the difference between scheme's and CL's let? 05:14:22 scheme's is dynamic, isn't it? 05:14:39 Scheme's is lexical. 05:14:50 So is CL's unless you have a special declaration. 05:14:53 oops. 05:15:09 Oh, wait, I was thinking of elisp for some reason. Sorry. 05:16:13 Actually, scheme's lexical bindings are where CL's lexical bindings come from. 05:16:55 right, right, scheme was the big lexical innovator that helped code not look like spaghetti. 05:17:24 shinta42: remove-if-not calls #'at-loc-p on each element of its second argument (objs in your case) 05:17:54 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-155.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 05:18:34 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:19:11 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.144.14] has joined #lisp 05:19:22 Ralith: looking at r6rs I don't really see much, besides the obvious (declarations, specials etc.). and scheme not allowing empty bindings (let (foo) ...) of course. 05:20:03 Scheme has letrec, which is nice. 05:20:19 bike:oh...so objs is passed into obj... 05:20:21 oh, and there's also named-let. 05:20:33 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:20:35 bike:i didnt realize have to look it from bottom to top 05:21:10 bike:i got confused i thought somehow the parameters in defun objects-at get passed into the parameter in at-loc-p lol 05:21:14 shinta42: labels defines a function for use in the body (in this case (remove-if-not ...)). 05:21:39 Labels is like letrec, for function bindings. 05:21:44 bike:k thanks 05:22:16 Bike: that was what I was thought--so why's someone on the alexandria ML trying to get a scheme-like let added? 05:22:44 Check the detail of the message. 05:22:53 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-143-213.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:12 Maybe they mean named lets? 05:23:19 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:23:29 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@75-142-48-121.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:23:50 «IIRC, I borrowed this implementation form SBCL's NAMED-LET» yeah, seems that way. 05:25:45 BountyX [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has joined #lisp 05:26:41 felideon [~felideon@184.170.255.36] has joined #lisp 05:27:35 rtj [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 05:34:31 p_l|home [~p_l@2a01:348:195:1:b45e:940d:3bce:a99a] has joined #lisp 05:38:16 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.6.13] has joined #lisp 05:43:32 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 05:45:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.56] has joined #lisp 05:45:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.56] has quit [Changing host] 05:45:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:46:43 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-uzlccbzqaasmajbz] has joined #lisp 05:46:49 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-uzlccbzqaasmajbz] has quit [Changing host] 05:46:49 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:48:25 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 05:52:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:53:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-168.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:54:09 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 05:56:07 disciple [~krishna@117.207.105.69] has joined #lisp 05:57:39 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:57:54 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-zulqpaebhyvwrlvh] has joined #lisp 05:57:54 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-zulqpaebhyvwrlvh] has quit [Changing host] 05:57:54 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:00:16 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:00:16 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:00:16 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:09:15 -!- superflit [~superflit@75-171-206-72.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: superflit] 06:09:21 ehu [~ehuels@089144206079.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:19 ozialien [~ernest@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:11:41 tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.19.176] has joined #lisp 06:14:43 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.160.223.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:16:28 asvil [~asvil@37.214.66.47] has joined #lisp 06:19:20 bike:u there? 06:19:27 I'm here. 06:19:36 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:19:42 bike:that same function....one more question... 06:20:04 bike: if objs is passed into at-loc-p....label makes it so it grabs 1 value at a time? 06:20:16 No, you're confused. 06:20:26 Do you know any iteration constructs yet? Dolist, something like that? 06:20:45 bike:dolist? no...iam on chap 5 of land of lisp 06:20:58 loop? 06:21:16 bike:yah i read those 06:24:11 Okay, nevermind, I'll just explain what remove-if-not does. You're passing it two arguments: A function, #'at-loc-p, and a list, objs. What remove-if-not does is, it calls its first argument (here, #'at-loc-p) on each element of the list (objs, which is the second argument to objects-at), and it constructs and returns a new list made up of all those elements for which that returns true. 06:24:43 labels has nothing to do with it, the first argument could be any function you like (as long as it takes one argument) 06:25:02 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:30:33 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:32:44 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 06:37:48 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-wykobuietlmpjtbg] has joined #lisp 06:39:40 bike:ok got it ...thanks 06:40:30 leoncamel [~user@219.142.131.1] has joined #lisp 06:40:51 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:41:16 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 06:41:18 superflit [~superflit@75-171-206-72.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:48 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.6.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:43:46 abeaumont_ [~Alfredo@138.Red-79-157-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:59 -!- abeaumont_ is now known as abeaumont 06:45:00 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.19.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:45:32 -!- wakeup_ [~max@xdsl-89-0-112-170.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:45:45 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has joined #lisp 06:45:56 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 06:46:06 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:48:27 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-30-50.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:10 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:31 wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-67-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:50:08 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-196-191.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:53:28 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 06:58:09 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 06:59:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:00:54 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-155.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 07:06:16 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:11:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:11:41 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 07:12:11 loke_erc [~user@c-1756e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:12:58 -!- pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:16:51 jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has joined #lisp 07:22:57 -!- ozialien [~ernest@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:23:52 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-53-254.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:14 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-236-74.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: die] 07:25:13 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-155.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:28:40 -!- nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@smtpbt.pramati.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:19 nha [~prefect@g229044012.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:29:51 nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@smtpbt.pramati.com] has joined #lisp 07:30:12 xan_ [~xan@fanzine.igalia.com] has joined #lisp 07:31:26 -!- pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:36:48 -!- whicling [~mike4_@gateway/tor-sasl/mike4/x-38362156] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:37:26 pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 07:39:55 mskou [~mskou@0x50a277b6.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1109.rdnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:39:58 Hi 07:44:04 I'm using CITY_COL=27 07:44:04 I'm using walk-directory and need to store the result in a list. Therefore i have something like (let (files) (defun scan…) (defun scan char…) ) so i can use the files variables from my scanning functions. My question is if thats OK or the whole construct should be places in its on function to make a closure? Does it matter? 07:45:04 mskou: what is walk-directory? 07:45:26 mskou: are you sure that you are talking to the right channel? 07:45:32 you can see the code here http://paste.lisp.org/+2SYA 07:46:18 -!- shinta42 [~shinta42@123.120.71.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:47:26 mskou: i'd close over a lexical variable. top-level lets break my expectations for file structure. i never use them, because i only expect top-level definitions to reside on the top level 07:48:21 mskou: i also never use aif or prog. prog in particulare seems to be completely over the top. and finally, your indentation is wrong. use an editor that knows how to indent lisp if you ant us to look at your code 07:49:04 mskou: maybe look at some other lisp code. did you ever see standalone closing parens in code of experienced lisp programmers? 07:50:31 *loke_erc* has never used PROG for effect 07:50:47 I honestly can't think of a situation where I would 07:50:50 mskou: no private messages please 07:51:34 H4ns: Ok, thanks for the feedback, just what i needed. 07:53:28 -!- nha [~prefect@g229044012.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:53:41 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 07:56:24 shinta42 [~shinta42@123.120.77.67] has joined #lisp 07:57:14 naeg_ [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 08:00:10 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:03:20 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 08:04:06 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:04:37 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust329.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:05:12 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.121] has joined #lisp 08:06:40 -!- shinta42 [~shinta42@123.120.77.67] has quit [] 08:09:57 -!- terminfo [~ubuntu@c-24-34-195-237.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:11:23 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:11:54 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ttgxoyuvskqxtkhb] has joined #lisp 08:12:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@196.210.142.154] has joined #lisp 08:12:54 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.1.10] has joined #lisp 08:13:21 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-177-72.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:18:04 -!- X-Scale [~email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18:43 -!- pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20:40 pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 08:21:19 lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:59 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:29:19 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 08:29:49 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 08:30:37 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 08:31:05 -!- mritz [~textual@cpe-70-112-3-176.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:32:20 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:33:16 springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has joined #lisp 08:34:10 TimKack [~user@213.208.236.186] has joined #lisp 08:34:23 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 08:38:02 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-wykobuietlmpjtbg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:46:24 bigmeow [~mirror@184.82.217.174] has joined #lisp 08:46:27 hi all 08:46:34 anybody here use emacs? 08:46:44 how to ensure if lisp is installed on my system? 08:47:38 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:48:12 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 08:49:06 ubuntu [~ubuntu@c-24-34-195-237.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:09 -!- ubuntu is now known as Guest6062 08:50:21 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-idxjumgywjgduovx] has joined #lisp 08:51:04 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-deowhbkvwrmgqpkw] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:54:43 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 08:55:38 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-idxjumgywjgduovx] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:56:09 nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-245.math.tu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 08:56:23 -!- pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:56:36 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:56:41 -!- TimKack [~user@213.208.236.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:57:09 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:13 TimKack [~user@213.208.236.186] has joined #lisp 08:57:28 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:57:32 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:01:48 -!- Guest6062 [~ubuntu@c-24-34-195-237.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:02:27 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:02:59 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:03:21 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 09:13:37 -!- p_l|home [~p_l@2a01:348:195:1:b45e:940d:3bce:a99a] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:13:52 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 09:14:13 peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 09:14:22 bigmeow: Hard to say unless you tell what system you're using. 09:16:27 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:16:54 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:19:40 bigmeow: and what lisp implementation. 09:19:40 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.84.4] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 09:20:04 In the *scratch* buffer, type: system-type C-u C-x C-e 09:20:20 (or directly in the #lisp buffer, if you're using erc). 09:20:33 dude i wished there was an clx app which told me all keyboard-mappings which are currently in effect..... 09:21:05 p_l|home [~p_l@2a01:348:195:1:b45e:940d:3bce:a99a] has joined #lisp 09:21:09 wbooze: there's one. (run-program "xmodmap" :arguments (list "-pk")) 09:21:36 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21:42 or -pke 09:22:24 so xkb protocol is not supported in clx 09:22:34 i.e. in mcclim too.... 09:22:37 Cymew: centos 5.3 09:23:03 puuh, man i'm trying to wrap my head around this stuff but it's soo complicated.... 09:23:12 bigmeow: centos, it's a rpm based system, isn't it. 09:23:14 pjb: not sure, i want lisp, because i want to use emacs:) 09:23:54 pjb: you are right:) now i am tring to build a emacs plugin, failed:( seems have something to do with lisp:) 09:23:57 pjb: http://iyanwu.com/pastebin/showthread.php?tid=1689 09:24:04 so keycodes don't change when i change say from us to de layout etc.... 09:24:07 bigmeow: try: rpm -qa | grep -e 'ccl\|clisp\|cmu\|sbcl\|abcl\|ecl\|gcl' 09:24:26 ubuntu_ [~ubuntu@c-24-34-195-237.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:51 Kron__ [~Kron@59.92.195.67] has joined #lisp 09:25:15 i've seen one add his serbian layout to cim or so.... 09:25:32 would like todo it for a german layout too....meh 09:25:38 bigmeow: perhaps you have an alias or a script named emacs that shadows the real emacs? 09:25:45 erm s/cim/clim/ 09:26:04 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:32 bigmeow: type: which emacs 09:27:19 pjb: returns nonthing:( 09:27:23 Not good. 09:27:29 in clim i've seen only 3 constants for shift, caps and mode-switch modifiers.... 09:27:29 Type: alias emacs 09:27:46 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.195.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:27:48 NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhwufwstuewpxdsh] has joined #lisp 09:28:00 pjb: one emacs install using rpm, that is emacs 21, and another build from source,that is emacs 24 09:28:20 Type: set | grep emacs 09:29:01 if you have a line: "emacs ()" then it means you have a shell function named emacs. Check your .profile or .bashrc, or /etc/profile, etc. and remove it. 09:29:10 If you have an alias, unalias emacs 09:29:44 well, no, same thing, if you have an alias, remove it from the .profile .bashrc, /etc/profile etc. 09:29:50 the others are got bound from the env (currenty kbd layout) but since clim uses us as default, i don't think the modifiers will be the same either.... 09:30:58 pjb: http://iyanwu.com/pastebin/showthread.php?tid=1690 09:32:34 pjb: autocomplete for emacs and alis env on my system 09:32:39 pjb: http://iyanwu.com/pastebin/showthread.php?tid=1691 09:37:34 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:38:18 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@59.92.195.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:38:40 agumonkey [~agu@233.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:04 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:40:34 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.243.121] has joined #lisp 09:41:50 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:43:06 -!- ubuntu_ [~ubuntu@c-24-34-195-237.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:48:04 ubuntu_ [~ubuntu@c-24-34-195-237.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:17 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 09:48:56 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 09:50:41 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 09:53:05 bigmeow: so that's not the problem. Perhaps the distribution patched emacs to disable the -Q option. That would be dumb, but works things have occured. 09:53:46 bigmeow: emacs --version should tell you if you're using emacs-21 ( I assume, provided by the distribution) or emacs-24, I assume installed by you. 09:55:14 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:57:40 pjb: do you use el-get? 09:58:19 No, I don't. 09:59:03 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:02:12 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 10:03:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:04:26 pjb: so how do you install emacs plugin? 10:05:55 -!- kevinyings [~aprilthir@218.108.89.46] has quit [Quit: kevinyings] 10:05:56 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-nxlmkfubsezexwmy] has joined #lisp 10:08:57 I don't install emacs plugins. I download emacs code, and I use require or load to load it into emacs. 10:11:10 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 10:17:03 -!- eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:17:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:19:59 -!- Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483B2A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:20:20 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-nxlmkfubsezexwmy] has quit [Changing host] 10:20:20 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 10:26:07 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.2] 10:28:26 add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-63-88.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:33:14 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B2A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:25 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:39:45 peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 10:40:02 oh man 10:40:35 so annoying really, i get the previous paren told in the wholine when it actually matches the one after that... 10:40:35 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:40:55 i.e. the visual highlighting is doing the right match, but the wholine tells me something else.... 10:41:10 for parens in climacs 10:43:38 i menat in the minibuffer sorry not wholine... 10:43:47 -!- loke_erc [~user@c-1756e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:46:16 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:46:37 shifty [~user@114-198-35-89.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:50:37 kpreid_ [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-17-153.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:45 -!- ubuntu_ [~ubuntu@c-24-34-195-237.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:50:49 leoncame` [~user@219.142.131.1] has joined #lisp 10:51:37 ianmcorvidae|alt 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Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@75-142-48-121.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:00:52 BeWhy [~chatzilla@c-76-124-138-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:45 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:01:59 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:52 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:03:47 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@75-142-48-121.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:05:50 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.2.48] has joined #lisp 12:10:27 so how would i get my backslash back without doing anything for it ? 12:10:58 is that some magic or is lisp keeping secret connections to the net or so ? 12:11:05 lol 12:12:38 -!- nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-245.math.tu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:14:35 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 12:14:41 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-6-103.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:39 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:00 -!- naeg_ [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 12:19:23 Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bxvkpfvzwedgshwa] has joined #lisp 12:19:23 -!- Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bxvkpfvzwedgshwa] has quit [Changing host] 12:19:23 Gurragchaa [u6439@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 12:19:23 -!- Gurragchaa [u6439@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Changing host] 12:19:23 Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bxvkpfvzwedgshwa] has joined #lisp 12:19:41 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:19:46 -!- leoncame` [~user@219.142.131.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:20:09 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.54.108] has joined #lisp 12:20:24 installing SBCL on Mountain Lion is tricky! 12:26:18 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-53-254.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:27:02 -!- 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[~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:41:03 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:41:14 -!- Vivitron` [~Vivitron`@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:43:52 ahh it's a wonderful day 12:44:47 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 12:49:22 <_travis_> yes, fridays are typically wonderful :o 12:50:22 Kron__ [~Kron@59.92.171.111] has joined #lisp 12:50:59 -!- rtj [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: rtj] 12:51:34 Kron [~Kron@59.92.154.18] has joined #lisp 12:51:49 rtj [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:52:20 emacs-how-to-save-the-modification 12:52:26 http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj624/bigmeowOoO/emacs-how-to-save-the-modification.jpg 12:53:29 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.195.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:54:37 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@59.92.171.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:57:14 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 12:57:38 wth 12:57:55 where does the clim-listener get it's lisp syntax thing ? 12:58:13 it does not report closing parens right! 13:00:24 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:00:31 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:04:18 -!- PuercoPop712 [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:06:29 bigmeow: C-x C-s is the buffer in which you made the modification 13:08:28 *Sgeo__* wonders what it would take to get a Smalltalk-like IDE in Lisp 13:09:36 Sgeo__: http://lispworks.com/ 13:09:42 simple matter of programming 13:10:26 H4ns, how... commercial. /me sads 13:10:55 Sgeo__: what do you mean by "what would it take"? 13:11:48 H4ns, well, I'm sort of playing with something similar for Tcl. But Tcl actually stores the code that makes up each (non-C) proc 13:12:31 xaxisx_ [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 13:12:39 -!- xaxisx_ [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Client Quit] 13:13:29 -!- mskou [~mskou@0x50a277b6.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1109.rdnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:14:54 madnificent: what is the comand to list all the packages that i have installed in emacs? 13:15:09 -!- snarkyjack [~snarkyjac@173.221.185.2.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: snarkyjack] 13:15:27 bigmeow: emacs questions are better asked in #emacs 13:16:00 Sgeo__: have a look at pjb's ibcl 13:16:56 H4ns, having trouble fiding it except something that says it's Image Based Common Lisp 13:17:03 Oh, this is... actually the .lisp file 13:17:39 Neat 13:21:56 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-erlvzhsvsbjbkjvg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:24:01 joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has joined #lisp 13:26:05 bigmeow: why are you asking emacs question on #lisp instead of #emacs? 13:28:31 Sgeo__: and http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/sedit/ and the Interlisp papers. 13:29:16 Sgeo__: now if you want some bitmap-based graphic IDE, more work would be in order, but it's possible: it was implemented in lisp machines. 13:30:54 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-229-241.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:33 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:38:59 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-jsesuvbbawnnzvzg] has joined #lisp 13:41:21 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:41:58 -!- asvil [~asvil@37.214.66.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:34 snarkyjack [~snarkyjac@173.221.185.2.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:24 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-159-245.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:44:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196.210.142.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:46:00 loke_erc [~user@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:46:05 Hi guys 13:46:51 ice [~ice@222.130.131.159] has joined #lisp 13:48:48 _6502_ [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has joined #lisp 13:49:02 -!- _6502_ is now known as [6502] 13:49:17 Hi guy. 13:50:42 -!- j_king_ is now known as j_king 13:51:34 -!- ice [~ice@222.130.131.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:53:10 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:53:20 -!- joshee is now known as joshe 13:53:28 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:55:37 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 13:56:39 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-fibffwyaeyclaeia] has joined #lisp 13:57:27 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@201.7.186.67] has joined #lisp 14:04:04 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:43 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-pximfepyhhvftdlq] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:05:08 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 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has joined #lisp 15:51:48 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206079.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:55:02 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-168.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:17 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-168.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:55:19 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.206.50] has joined #lisp 16:02:41 -!- DGASAU` is now known as DGASAU 16:03:55 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.54.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:07:12 -!- TimKack [~user@213.208.236.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:49 -!- LAMMJohnson [ja@cpc11-nrwh10-2-0-cust397.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:13:33 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-158-211.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:34 Hi everyone! 16:13:39 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.243.121] has joined #lisp 16:14:07 anon119 [~bman@12.104.144.2] has joined #lisp 16:14:16 LAMMJohnson [ja@cpc11-nrwh10-2-0-cust397.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:54 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 16:15:25 I did this (ldb (byte 1 0) #b1101110) => 0; (ldb (byte 1 1) #b1101110) => 1; and I'm confused a little. Why numbering starts from 1 instead of 0? 16:16:30 *Fare* looks into ways to cope with absence of first-class classes in CLOS and looks into cl-container's find-or-create-class 16:16:58 Fare: Hm, OK. Thanks. 16:17:04 hitecnologys: numbering starts at 0, otherwise (ldb (byte 1 0) ...) would error out. It's also least-significant bit first: bit 0 corresponds to the bit of weight 2^0 = 1. 16:17:11 *sykopomp* wonders what Fare means by 'lack' 16:17:35 Lol 16:17:37 -!- PuercoPop712 [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:18:07 It looked pretty silly. =| 16:18:19 Fare: (defclass foo () ()) (make-instance (find-class 'foo)) 16:18:21 find-class returns a class, it's a first class object: you can bind it, pass it as parameter, you can use it to make instances, etc. 16:18:59 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-236-74.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:01 also defclass returns the class 16:19:03 hitecnologys: that's the only sane way with arbitrary-precision integers. Each integer is "prefixed" by an infinite series of 0 or 1. 16:19:06 find-class is also a standard *accessor*. 16:19:27 real-hitecnology [~hitecnolo@46.233.229.174] has joined #lisp 16:19:38 Oh, my internets. 16:19:50 pkhuong: So, I just need to ignore 0-th bit? 16:19:53 well, class definitions are not normal expressions and there are no combinators to compose them. 16:20:11 so yes, with eval and such I could create them, I suppose 16:20:15 er 16:20:19 real-hitecnology: I don't know what's not clear in what I wrote, so I'll let someone else handle this. 16:20:33 Fare: what are you trying to do? "compose" can mean a few things here 16:21:16 pkhuong: OK. 16:21:23 I'm trying to parameterize classes. 16:21:26 -!- Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@75-142-48-121.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:21:43 Fare: if you want to generate class definitions, that's what the MOP is for. 16:21:43 Fare: at what point will you give up and code a simple single-dispatch system? 16:22:03 plus i think you can (make-instance 'standard-class) if you want anonymous classes 16:22:27 when I move from interface-passing style back to interface-less style, I find that I need to automatically create new classes that inherit from both the interface and from the data classes. 16:22:44 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.206.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:23:06 real-hitecnology: you're not making sense. The 0th bit is the least significant bit. it's 2^0 = 1. 16:23:27 Fare: can you pastie something specific here? 16:23:32 with all the interface slots being :allocation :class 16:23:54 Numbering start from 0, so that you don't have to do (expt 2 (1- bit-number)) to get the weight of the bit, just (expt 2 bit-number). 16:24:12 oGMo: not yet. But say I build an interface object that operates on data of classes . 16:24:22 Fare: "interface object"? 16:24:34 real-hitecnology: like all numbering, they should all start from 0. 16:24:37 oGMo: read his blog post on IPS 16:24:39 is this poorly-applied terminology, do you mean UI, or what 16:24:43 then if I want to offer an interface-less interface to same, I need to create classes 16:24:46 and maybe read through fare-utils (or is it cl-containers now?) 16:24:50 "poorly-applied java terminology" 16:24:57 sykopomp, moved out of fare-utils into lisp-interface-library 16:25:06 ah, that's where they are now. 16:25:09 oGMo: well, the notion of interface is more general than one java makes of it. 16:25:29 until I get this thing right wrt moving between interface-passing style and interface-less style, there's no unification possible with the current cl-containers. 16:25:38 pjb: sure, it's just unclear without context here what exactly a lot of his terms are referring to 16:25:58 Yep. The context is Fare's interface library ;-) 16:26:14 and interface-less style is normal clos style. 16:26:25 otherwise named duck typing :-) 16:26:27 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-117-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:53 oGMo: the context spans many months of discussions on IRC, blog posts, and library releases. 16:26:53 I don't think that's quite it. 16:26:55 pjb: and you call interface-passing style what? hunter typing? 16:26:57 pjb: But why (ldb (byte 1 0) #b1101110) returns 0? 16:27:17 Fare: I think of ips as MOP-dispatch-style ;) 16:27:25 Fare: Canada Dry: it has the color of alcohol, the taste of alcohol, but it's not alcohol, so you reject it :-) 16:27:38 why MOP? I've hardly used the MOP so far. 16:27:49 pjb: Aw, sorry. (ldb (byte 1 0) #b1101111) => 1. Now I understand it. 16:27:51 and my lazy approach to answering the obnoxiousness-of-passing-interfaces question is "do what the MOP does and keep a reference, and let it be changed if necessary" 16:28:03 Because of the 0 in the least significant position of #b1101110 that is this 0: #b110111<0> <--- this one. 16:28:15 pjb: I count from left. =| 16:28:18 Fare: the MOP has a number of foo-using-class generic functions which basically amount to IPS. There's definitely precedent for what you're doing in CLOS. 16:28:40 real-hitecnology: and beware, because in bit vectors, you would indeed count from left: (aref #*010100101 0) --> 0 16:29:00 But #b1101111 in a bit vector would be #*1111011 16:29:04 (defun slot-value (obj slot-name) (slot-value-using-class (class-of obj) obj slot-name)) 16:29:42 what is cumbersome is that if I want an interface to be de-interfaceable, it can't use as constants anymore, but must every time find their name through interface accessors. That mustn't make SBCL's optimizer happy. 16:29:55 pjp: Uh Lisp have more advanced binary arithmetics that I thought. Thanks a lot. 16:30:34 (make-tree :iface ') (defun tree-value (tree key) (tree-value-using-iface (iface-of tree) tree key)) 16:30:37 -!- anon119 [~bman@12.104.144.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:30:56 real-hitecnology: well yes, but for this question, it's the same in C: (0b1100110 & (1<<0)) == 0 16:31:01 brb 16:31:19 [and everywhere, but in RFCs :-)] 16:31:22 (setf (iface-of tree) ) (tree-value tree 'foo) and so on. 16:31:37 chturne [~chturne@host86-150-80-78.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:32:11 sykopomp: having the interface in the tree object seems counter-productive. At this point, one could just use regular CLOS and CHANGE-CLASS. 16:32:23 I think what Fare means is that (deftype class-name () (class-from-interface i)) is not done automatically. 16:32:46 and pkhuong is correct. 16:32:59 pkhuong: if you do change-class, you need to start building all the combinations, no? 16:33:12 etc. 16:33:21 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-052-226.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:29 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:33 sykopomp: you can do that at runtime. 16:34:19 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:35:08 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-68-81-138-209.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:35:24 what I like about interfaces is the way they (can) decouple representation from behaviour. 16:35:39 pkhuong: Changing classes like that makes me a little queasy, and I'm afraid of the effects it could have on optimizations (change-class isn't really expected to be something done regularly). Classes are also relatively heavy. 16:36:06 effects on optimisations? Like what? 16:36:29 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:37:07 throwing away anything the CLOS implementation precalculates/caches on class change, for example, and making it run those more often than expected. 16:37:44 sykopomp: I don't think any CLOS implementation does caching on a per-object basis, so changing an object's class doesn't affect them. 16:37:48 classes are also not exactly lightweight objects. I wouldn't want to be generating them a lot, but I think it could be useful to use different interfaces fairly regularly while using ips. Maybe. 16:38:13 the concern is more class generation, I think. 16:38:37 but I'm speculating based on distant memories of playing around with internals of CLOS, and change-class is not an unreasonable suggestion. I'll leave it be :) 16:40:20 de-ifacing does seem like a bit of a problematic thing. I seem to recall some of Fare's examples actually used two (or more?) ifaces for dispatch. I don't remember if they mapped directly to data objects, but they don't really have to. 16:46:25 PuercoPop712 [~PuercoPop@200.48.22.49] has joined #lisp 16:46:28 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:47:48 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-052-226.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:47:55 anon119 [~bman@12.104.148.2] has joined #lisp 16:48:30 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 16:49:48 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:52:34 kanru [~kanru@199.195.142.182] has joined #lisp 16:53:38 -!- real-hitecnology [~hitecnolo@46.233.229.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:54:01 Fare [~Fare@c-68-81-138-209.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:38 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.53.92] has joined #lisp 16:54:40 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: cya] 16:56:18 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:11 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:00:08 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.105.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:00:39 -!- ivan-kan` [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:02:13 disciple [~krishna@117.207.105.69] has joined #lisp 17:17:27 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:18:23 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:18:27 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:20:53 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.243.121] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:21:32 -!- ludston [~user@CPE-121-212-123-95.lns8.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:21:48 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:22:50 -!- [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:23:35 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:24:02 ehu [~ehuels@089144206206.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:14 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.107.251] has joined #lisp 17:30:43 data-mage [~data-mage@c-69-249-253-220.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:40 Blkt [~user@82.84.131.104] has joined #lisp 17:31:43 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129118229.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 17:32:23 I loaded a library with quicklist but I can't use any of the library functions. I used (ql:quickload "cl-ppre") and then tried to use the functions. is there a step I'm missing? 17:33:05 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 17:33:17 data-mage: did you specify the package? 17:33:20 package qualifiers. try ppcre:scan instead of scan, etc 17:33:20 sorry, I meant to type "cl-ppcre". typo 17:34:00 good evening everyone 17:34:05 ah, that's what is was. thank you! 17:34:05 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.105.69] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 17:34:40 if I want to be able to just type scan instead of typing the package every time, is there a way to do that? 17:34:59 (use-package :ppcre) 17:35:22 or the equivalent in your package definition if you're working on a larger project. etc 17:35:38 oh okay. thanks! 17:37:50 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:37:50 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:37:50 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 17:38:07 -!- xan_ 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kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:05 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 18:38:20 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.118.176] has joined #lisp 18:38:35 -!- pjb is now known as Guest71505 18:38:45 michaelw_ [~michaelw@tor.foldr.org] has joined #lisp 18:38:46 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 18:38:46 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:46 madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 18:38:46 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 18:38:52 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 18:39:12 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:47 -!- sellout [~Adium@75.25.126.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:39:47 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:39:48 jtza8: still here (those net splits) 18:40:01 jtza8: have you heard about garbage collection? 18:40:20 no 18:41:06 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 18:41:08 otherwise, your function only allocates two conses. It is possible that a Common Lisp implementation doesn't provide a garbage collector. Then it should provide a system:free function, just like when you use a C compiler without a garbage collector. 18:41:31 -!- Guest71505 is now known as pjb 18:41:32 -!- dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:42:12 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:42:22 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:42:56 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:07 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.5.223.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:43:27 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 18:44:17 k0001 [~k0001@200.5.223.216] has joined #lisp 18:45:32 snarkyjack [~snarkyjac@173.221.185.2.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:57 -!- wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-67-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:04 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:29 wakeup [~max@xdsl-78-34-212-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:48:00 mickbeaver [~mickbeave@216-136-25-2.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:01 mike4_ [~mike4_@gateway/tor-sasl/mike4/x-38362156] has joined #lisp 18:48:18 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 18:49:26 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:49:37 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:50:13 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:50:29 W T F! 18:50:52 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 18:50:59 why is a processs thought to be defined as a variable get executed instead in a let form ? 18:51:35 -!- slyrus is now known as 36DABVWGK 18:51:37 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 18:51:37 hswe [~hswe@blackhole.space150.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:37 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:37 drewc [~user@212.110.167.245] has joined #lisp 18:51:37 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 18:51:37 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 18:51:37 derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 18:51:37 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:37 mal__ [mal@ks24170.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:37 Ottre [ottre@wikipedia/Ottre] has joined #lisp 18:51:37 wolgo [~jarrod@li155-127.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:46 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:52:52 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 18:54:02 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:06 -!- mike4_ [~mike4_@gateway/tor-sasl/mike4/x-38362156] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:54:09 (DEFUN FORTUNE () 18:54:13 uups 18:54:48 dys [~user@2a01:1e8:e100:8296:21a:4dff:fe4e:273a] has joined #lisp 18:55:57 mike4_ [~mike4_@gateway/tor-sasl/mike4/x-38362156] has joined #lisp 18:57:11 pjb: under the assumption that you're not only logged in as guest: where is it tedfiend that a Common Lisp implementation doesn't need a garbage collector and that it should implement system:free in that case? i can't find it in the CLHS 18:58:18 madnificent: exactly. 18:58:39 why is this here http://paste.lisp.org/display/130844 18:58:55 since when does the clhs say to implement system:anything 18:59:04 i thought i would not get anything returned or printed..... 18:59:21 pjb: exactly is not something i'll find in the CLHS... was it just FUD? 18:59:30 wbooze: it calls run-program, what are you talking about 18:59:48 wbooze: the program outputs to *standard-output*, no? 19:00:09 yes 19:00:45 madnificent: nothing in CLHS says a CL implementation must have a garbage collector. 19:00:56 wbooze: run-program is being called, that runs the program "/usr/games/fortune" regardless of whether or not you use the variable proc. fortune writes its result to standard output, therefore, you see some output. 19:01:12 There are some places where it's said that some function may do some thing for an eventual garbage collector, but that's all. 19:01:14 pjb: but it doesn't say anything about system:free 19:01:26 madnificent: oh, indeed. It could be something else. 19:01:49 eg. it could never release memory. 19:01:50 could just let you allocate until your system crashes! 19:01:57 you made it sound as if the standard specified that garbage collection was optional and what should be done when it isn't supplied. that was quite worrying to me. 19:01:58 Just like Movitz does for now. 19:02:10 madnificent: sorry for this. 19:02:13 no worries 19:02:21 just wanted a clearer clarification as i couldn't find it ;) 19:02:42 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 19:02:42 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:03:19 just another messy on the road! 19:03:22 lol 19:03:42 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:04:50 About SYSTEM, it was in CLtL1 a package name reserved for the implementation. But indeed, CLHS doesn't reserve any package name but the standard ones CL COMMON-LISP, CL-USER, COMMON-LISP-USER and KEYWORD. 19:05:03 Forty-3 [~seana11@198.24.31.70] has joined #lisp 19:05:10 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.131.104] has quit [Quit: dinner] 19:07:04 sellout [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:33 -!- 36DABVWGK [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:08:40 ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:10:40 -!- Kron [~Kron@59.92.154.18] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 19:11:07 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:11:11 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@198.24.31.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:11:21 -!- SeySayux [SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:14:00 pjb: CLtL2 dropped the package? 19:14:51 pjb: i find it somewhat odd. it seems to make sense to keep a namespace for the implementation 19:15:22 madnificent: yes and no. 19:15:26 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 19:15:27 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:15:56 -!- data-mage [~data-mage@c-69-249-253-220.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:16:04 One problem if all implementations use the same package name for their stuff, is that user code may mistake one for another. If system:f exist in both implementations but do different things 19:16:21 On the other hand obviously this doesn't help when they DO provide the same API for the same functionality. 19:16:35 But in that case, they can use a common package name. 19:17:10 Actually, in that case, often they don't! Eg. CLOS, GRAY-STREAM, and so on are often found in different package. (that'd be worth bug reports to homogeneize things there). 19:17:18 s/CLOS/MOP/ 19:17:22 the current situation doesn't solve much of the likes. you should use annotations #+sbcl etc for that... plus, you shouldn't assume that system follows anything, you must check your implementation. 19:17:37 Yes. 19:19:21 Forty-3 [~seana11@198.24.31.70] has joined #lisp 19:21:41 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.177] has joined #lisp 19:23:15 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-113-189.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:40 SeySayux [SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has joined #lisp 19:25:41 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-158-211.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:29:05 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-249-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 19:29:22 -!- SHUPFS [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:30:17 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-249-110.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:31:48 -!- mike4_ [~mike4_@gateway/tor-sasl/mike4/x-38362156] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:33:19 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:36:39 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 19:37:54 mritz [~textual@cpe-70-112-3-176.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:40:18 xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 19:42:13 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:44:05 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:12 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:46:12 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@201.7.186.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:46:37 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:49:56 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 19:50:29 -!- xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:53:41 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 19:53:41 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:58:28 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-113-189.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 19:58:46 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-113-189.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:11 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:01 pnpuff_ [~pnpuff@host189-254-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:10:08 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:13:17 -!- pnpuff_ [~pnpuff@host189-254-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: bye:)] 20:13:29 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 20:16:29 sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-20-82.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:27 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 20:17:27 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:17:51 francogrex [~user@109.130.134.141] has joined #lisp 20:19:29 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-20-82.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:21:33 p_l|home [~pl@91.222.124.6] has joined #lisp 20:21:57 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 20:21:57 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:22:38 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.118.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:22:42 -!- p_l|home is now known as p_l|x61s 20:24:55 YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has joined #lisp 20:25:05 JorgeArbusto [JorgeArbus@109.58.168.44.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 20:25:14 -!- JorgeArbusto [JorgeArbus@109.58.168.44.bredband.tre.se] has left #lisp 20:26:26 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177889988.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:27:08 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-143-213.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:07 -!- p_l|x61s [~pl@91.222.124.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:32:36 -!- snarkyjack [~snarkyjac@173.221.185.2.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: snarkyjack] 20:34:57 dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 20:34:57 -!- dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:35:36 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:35:59 snarkyjack [~snarkyjac@173.221.185.2.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:45 -!- snarkyjack [~snarkyjac@173.221.185.2.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: snarkyjack] 20:42:07 (progn (format nil "really evil!") (truly-the 'yours)) 20:42:35 lol 20:44:52 oh man 20:45:11 i just can't work with string-output-streams... 20:45:22 it seems in sbcl.... 20:46:59 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:48:23 -!- rtj_ [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:49:03 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 20:49:57 rtj [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 20:50:26 dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 20:50:38 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:52:18 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:39 slyrus__ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:40 what does lisp held back from standardizing things like streams etc ?? 20:54:48 money ? 20:56:26 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.121] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:56:28 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-vpjnhrcmsxwhohri] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 20:57:00 wbooze, well, the language has been frozen for many many years... 20:57:25 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:57:55 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925078992.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:59:02 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925078992.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:00:05 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.107.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:01:17 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-nvnvdfzwqcbxmkyy] has joined #lisp 21:03:08 -!- PuercoPop712 [~PuercoPop@200.48.22.49] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 21:03:49 -!- sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:05:13 erm, yes i see 21:05:34 even not much with-output-to-string things in clim code.... 21:06:07 pjb: Aw, I just saw I was "highlighted" about 3 hours ago, thought it was something other than just a typo. 21:06:48 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.5.223.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:07:22 processing output from a program run via run-program in sbcl is not working for me 21:08:10 i tried to send the output to a string, but everytime i try to use that string, i get a type error, telling me string-output-stream is not of type (or (vector) (character) ......blah 21:08:50 so what the heck is wrong ? 21:09:20 Paste? 21:09:22 if i wanted to process it as a process i wouldn't try to send it's ouptut to a string in the first place not ? 21:09:34 -!- malbertife [~malbertif@bl14-198-243.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:10:15 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-8-51.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:10 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 21:12:03 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:12:55 wbooze: From what I understand, that string is actually a stream, no? 21:13:04 yes 21:13:19 In which case, read-line should change it into a string for you. 21:13:30 (at least, one line at a time) 21:13:31 no it does not 21:14:19 If you paste your code we might have a better idea of what you're doing. 21:14:56 True. 21:17:05 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 21:17:09 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:17:35 wbooze: are you using wait? because the string stream has dynamic extent, so if you don't wait for the process to finish, it will throw the error when it produces output, since the string-stream is no longer on the stack 21:20:00 Bike_ [~Glossina@207-224-20-1.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:04 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-236-74.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:20:13 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 21:20:35 wbooze, what are you trying to do on which implementation, already? 21:20:55 mike4_ [~mike4_@gateway/tor-sasl/mike4/x-38362156] has joined #lisp 21:21:16 flaviori_ [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 21:21:18 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:21:38 slyrus__: (or someone else) how do I write a bitmap (2d array of (unsigned-byte 32)) as an image? 21:22:18 not sure I understand the question, but take a look at opticl 21:22:47 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:59 I mean, I have an array in memory, and I want to write it to a file. I'm not sure how to do that with opticl. 21:25:20 -!- Sgeo__ is now known as Sgeo 21:26:24 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.121] has joined #lisp 21:26:49 srolls` [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:26 right. take a look at opticl and how it writes out arrays. it should be pretty straightforward. 21:27:42 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:27:45 -!- slyrus__ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:08 alright, thanks. 21:31:18 findiggle [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:23 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 21:32:02 is there a format directive which uses describe to display its argument? 21:33:01 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-113-189.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:33:42 <_death> madnificent: no, though you can make ~/ work 21:33:47 -!- _death is now known as adeht 21:34:16 lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:01 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:38:06 sabalaba [~Adium@adsl-76-194-112-186.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:33 madnificent: how? you mean something like (format t "~?" (list 1 2 3)) would print (list 1 2 3) ? 21:40:12 the function, DESCRIBE, presumably 21:40:39 francogrex: Probably (format t "~?" foo) == (format t "~A" (describe foo)) 21:42:07 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:43:01 the function, #'describe yes 21:44:21 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@198.24.31.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:44:35 sellout: i don't see why that would be the case, ~? doesn't seem to be the same as ~A with (describe foo) as per CLHS 21:45:37 madnificent: No, I was explaining to francogrex how the mythical ~? would work. 21:45:48 oh, ~? is also a directive :P i see 21:45:53 p_l|home [~pl@91.222.124.6] has joined #lisp 21:45:59 madnificent: Yeah, I was just copying his example ;) 21:46:01 well, yes, it would be the mythical ~? then, not the one from CLHS 21:46:12 lispesticians 21:46:22 yes I mant directive X (unknown yet) 21:46:28 meant 21:46:44 snarkyjack [~snarkyjac@173.221.185.2.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:46 -!- p_l|home is now known as p_l|x61s 21:47:19 Forty-3 [~seana11@198.24.31.70] has joined #lisp 21:47:59 i couldn't find it in the CLHS itself, which surprised me. it may well not exist. not terrible, but it wouldn't be clean to duplicate work from the CLHS itself 21:48:09 chturne_ [~chturne@host86-145-186-233.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:49:46 madnificent: Yeah, I don't think it exists. ~/ is your best bet. 21:50:08 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-150-80-78.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:50:14 (defun describer (s o c a) (declare (ignore c a)) (describe o s)) seems to work 21:50:17 good enough, thanks! 21:50:38 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@adsl-76-194-112-186.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:51:30 -!- snarkyjack [~snarkyjac@173.221.185.2.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:51:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:18 nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has joined #lisp 21:53:40 VeLtInS [~VeLtInS@bl14-198-243.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:53:41 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:53:48 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-63-88.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:54:27 somone forgot a dispatch-macro in physical-quantities ...... 21:54:34 antik! 21:54:50 -!- mritz [~textual@cpe-70-112-3-176.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:55:11 i'm curious how would you use #'describer in a format ? 21:55:27 (format nil "~/describer/" foo) 21:56:07 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:56:09 you could let it have arguments and such too, though I don't know what they'd be useful for 21:56:30 -!- _travis_2 [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:56:59 neat! 21:57:19 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57:30 findiggle [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:10 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:58:20 findiggle [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:20 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust329.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:59:27 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:59:30 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:00:59 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 22:02:57 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@198.24.31.70] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:05:03 here it is http://paste.lisp.org/display/130849 22:05:15 I'm not getting ~/ well, so it always needs 4 arguments? 22:05:43 like (defun zb (a b c d) (declare (ignore b c d)) (exp a)) and then (format nil "~/zb/" 1) gives an error why? 22:05:51 wbooze: what's not clear about the error? 22:05:57 you're trying to read from an output stream 22:06:12 francogrex: the first arg is the stream. second is the object, third is colonp, fourth is atp 22:06:20 francogrex: Yep. But a is the stream you want to write to. 22:06:23 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:06:34 stassats: ya but i would like to get the contents of that stream! 22:06:39 ok ok 22:07:02 wbooze: w-o-t-s returns it, in the string. 22:07:08 wbooze: (with-output-to-string (s) (sb-ext:run-program "/usr/games/fortune" '("") :output s)) 22:07:08 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 22:07:25 oh man 22:07:36 and why did you wrap it with progn? 22:07:49 what if i want to say subst spaces for tabs there on the string ? 22:07:51 and why (values)? with-output-to-string doesn't return the last value 22:08:19 clhs substitute 22:08:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sbs_s.htm 22:10:42 sellout: so how would one rewrite the zb function I made up to calculate the exp of the argument? 22:12:13 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:29 (defun zb (a b c d) (declare (ignore c d)) (write (exp b) :stream a))? 22:12:35 francogrex: something like: (defun zb (a b c d) (declare (ignore c d)) (princ (exp b) a)) 22:12:43 why not just simply call describe? why the hell do you need a format-directive? 22:13:13 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: dobranoc] 22:14:15 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 22:14:37 -!- VeLtInS [~VeLtInS@bl14-198-243.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:16 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:17:39 I'm happy I learned something new. Almost everytime here 22:18:21 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:18:46 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:25:59 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 22:26:33 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:26:55 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 22:27:32 stassats: can you show me how todo it ? 22:27:39 do what? 22:27:46 i think i tried everything now.... 22:28:10 replace tabs with spaces on the output-string ? 22:29:21 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 22:29:37 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.177] has joined #lisp 22:29:59 (ppcre:regex-replace-all #\Tab string #.(make-string 8 :initial-element #\Space)) 22:31:05 -!- flaviori_ [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:53 uhh 22:32:01 i meant with substitute ?! 22:32:07 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129118229.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:32:24 can't do 22:32:59 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.134.141] has left #lisp 22:33:06 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:36:42 minion: memo for francogrex: the directive ~X, to get the hexadecimal representation of integers? 22:36:59 where did the bloody minion go? 22:37:13 here http://picpaste.de/pics/my-misery-FH2IXJvh.1344033406.png 22:38:03 mcclim can't output tabs? that's funny 22:38:16 i dunno what it does.... 22:38:32 but you used substitute wrong 22:38:42 you substitute spaces with tabs 22:38:48 oh 22:38:53 wait then 22:39:33 aaaahahahah 22:39:34 wbooze: use inferior-shell or xcvb-driver 22:39:40 now it works 22:39:49 at least .....partially 22:39:54 (inferior-shell:run/s '(fortune)) 22:39:56 wbooze: which ide is that? 22:40:01 i dunno why it breaks before it hits fill-column..... 22:40:07 madnificent: clim-listener from mcclim 22:40:12 and it's not IDE 22:40:13 that's the clim-listener 22:40:15 ahh, ok 22:40:45 wbooze: (substitute #\space #\tab string) 22:41:19 inferior-shell is 100% portable to all unix and windows implementations, too 22:41:33 jup http://picpaste.de/pics/recovered-zucsIWRN.1344033674.png 22:42:12 wbooze, you need :wait t in your run-program... or once again, use inferior-shell 22:42:45 xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:35 Fare: why :wait ? 22:43:46 Think about it. 22:44:18 wbooze: you want the call to run-program to return only after fortune has returned. otherwise the string may be available when your function has already returned 22:44:48 Fare: wait t is the default 22:44:50 ah 22:45:03 heh 22:45:44 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:49 minion: you back? 22:45:50 what's up? 22:46:31 stassats, oh, ok. 22:46:43 and dunno why i get the escapes in the inner quotes or so.... 22:46:58 wbooze, maybe you want to princ the results 22:47:08 like \"blah\" in the fortunes.... 22:47:49 if you want just to print it (and are using a non-stupid output device) then use (sb-ext:run-program "/usr/games/fortune" '("") :output *standard-output*) 22:49:15 -!- anddam [~andrea@199.19.224.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:49:31 wbooze: there's no escape in the inner quotes: (find #\\ "hello \"world\"") --> NIL 22:50:10 what's it then ? 22:50:59 it's #\" 22:51:13 you can't print " inside a string readably without escaping it 22:51:14 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-229-241.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:52:29 wbooze: my suggestion is: fix mcclim/clim-listener to output Tabs and use (sb-ext:run-program program '() :output *standard-output* :search t) 22:52:31 wbooze: you can see the characters in a string with (coerce string 'list) or 'vector. 22:52:39 Any good examples of meta-classes? I've been reading the source of postmoderns dao-class meta-class, any others with educational value? 22:52:55 err, no for a vector: (map 'vector 'identity string). 22:53:19 or just abandon mcclim and run away screaming 22:55:04 pavel: not a very good example, but lisp-interface-library/interface/interface.lisp has stuff 22:55:33 i think it's all because of maybe that clx backend is based on only one locale/keyboard..... 22:55:39 dunno 22:55:49 not even all my modifiers work.... 22:56:03 is mcclim beyond salvation? I've allocated some free time to study it, but I'm only in the beginning. 22:56:08 no, it's because it simply doesn't want to output tabs 22:56:24 and modifiers don't work because it doesn't support XKB 22:56:35 (clx doesn't in the first place) 22:56:46 huh ? 22:56:52 some modifiers do work 22:57:05 pavelpenev: well, if you have nothing better to do, you can of course salvage it 22:57:10 those which are declared as constants in the sources 22:57:29 but all others are just ignored or so.. 22:58:22 stassats: Such a thought has crossed my mind, but I belive it is way beyond my skill level at this point. I'm just curious if it is worth learning, so far it seems so. 22:58:32 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:34 pavelpenev: it's not worth learning 22:59:12 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:59:21 not worth ? 22:59:26 -!- p_l|x61s [~pl@91.222.124.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:59:28 why's thaat ? 22:59:54 no more maintained, developed that's why ? 23:00:21 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-nvnvdfzwqcbxmkyy] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 23:00:37 that's not the problem, nobody would care about maintenance if it were usable 23:00:53 and yet it is ported to lispworks ? 23:00:57 and works there ? 23:01:07 lol 23:01:10 wbooze: I think that is deprecated 23:01:18 wbooze: mcclim is not ported to lispworks 23:01:22 i think the problem is something else..... 23:01:30 and lispworks's clim implementation is just as bad 23:01:35 oh 23:01:46 i don't believe you 23:01:47 speaking of maintenance -- one problem with many lisp libraries is lack of a clear maintainer, of someone responsible for reviewing and accepting patches 23:01:49 lol 23:02:02 so even when a patch is available, there's no one to apply 23:02:11 sbcl, alexandria, notably... 23:02:25 sbcl? that's not true... 23:02:31 a "patch pumpkin" would be nice 23:02:37 lispworks also sells lucid lisp licenses, I assume clims status is similar, for legacy apps and stuff like that. 23:02:46 stassats, who's "on call" for patches on sbcl? 23:02:59 whoever wants to fix them 23:03:06 s/fix/apply/ 23:03:33 No. What about when a patch is available from a non-maintainer? https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/981695 23:03:45 applying patches is not just doing patch -p1 < diff 23:03:45 see "whoever" in practice means no one. 23:03:57 tough luck 23:04:03 more like git am foo.diff 23:04:47 I take maintainership more seriously than that. 23:05:06 no, the patch needs to be reviewed, made sure it does what's advertised and doesn't break anything else, write a proper commit message, a NEWS entry and a test-case, wait for the freeze period to go over and commit it 23:05:10 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 23:05:34 Fare: nobody's entitled to get their patches applied 23:06:37 and reviewing the patch requires expertise in the field which it addresses and not every committer has expertise on all parts of SBCL 23:06:54 mritz [~textual@cpe-70-112-3-176.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:07:13 it's of no use being pissed that somebody doesn't use their free time to grant your patch the full attention 23:09:45 especially when the issue it addresses is not major 23:09:51 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:11:05 vaus [~vaus@51.Red-79-156-37.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:54 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:20:07 -!- mritz [~textual@cpe-70-112-3-176.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:21:19 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:21:57 stassats negative comments towards mcclim sort of make me more curious. 23:22:23 eheh mebbe he's using it too! 23:22:26 lol 23:22:36 pavelpenev: it's not that negative, just impractical 23:22:51 OH, that word, makes me even more curious :) 23:23:40 if you're willing to fix all the bugs and add missing features in mcclim (and clx) and deal with all the things which CLIM itself lacks, then it's fine 23:24:53 Now, since lisp is so productive a programming language, it should be easy to do that. 23:25:12 well, learning CLX well (and X in general) is an eventual goal, less so for mcclim 23:25:53 dunno if getting rid of the clx backend in clim would actually be a good idea..... 23:26:11 I'm thinking more about "Idea stealing", clim seems to have good ideas in general. 23:26:30 seems like in sdl for example clx works out the box.... 23:26:31 you gotta replace it with something, clx at least works most of the time, as opposed to the gtk backend 23:26:44 it's better to bring clx backend up to speed than add another half-assed one 23:26:46 and i didn't see any kbd mappings or such there yet.... 23:27:10 so clx, how bad is the situation there? 23:28:08 it lacks XKB support 23:28:36 anyone fluent in the xkb protocol ? 23:28:56 maybe one could add a protocol..... 23:29:42 i think it would neeed like 10 good people todo it all.....for the internationalization stuff..... 23:29:43 you can be the one 23:30:08 nah, i said good! 23:30:10 I've been trying stumpwm and clx for the last few days,it's working well enough. 23:30:13 10 people, let alone good? well, that's a too high bar 23:30:24 eheh 23:30:26 10 people? this is lisp 23:30:48 2 of us, and a year long supply of coffe and pizza and we're done :) 23:30:49 Yes, program your lisp to program itself, and you alone can do the work of ten people. 23:30:53 10 people on the whole planet! gosh! 23:31:00 wbooze: seriously, it just needs one determined person, you can be the said person! 23:31:18 oh 23:31:31 but i know next to nothing about xkb and all that stuff.... 23:31:34 is anybody in charge of clx, anyway? the cliki page is a bit old but makes it out that there's like half a dozen versions. 23:31:48 Well, coffee, pizza, shelter and one year of electricity and internet connection too. 23:31:48 wbooze: you'll learn it 23:32:28 well, i would try to, i mean i would like to....don't want to promise anything! 23:33:23 wbooze: As I said, I'm definitely going into X in the near future, so maybe keep me in mind as a partner of crime :) 23:33:32 wbooze: well, that's the problem, with such defeatist attitude you won't get anything done 23:33:43 eheh 23:33:58 just say to yourself "i won't stop until it's done" 23:34:08 there is no such thing as impossible software, only insufficient caffeine 23:34:08 no matter how much time it'll take you 23:34:23 ah 23:40:30 anything else missing, broken or otherwise suboptimal in clx? 23:41:00 just try to use it for real things and you'll see what you miss 23:41:27 p_l|x61s [~pl@91.222.124.6] has joined #lisp 23:42:36 and yeah, using something for "real things" is a crucial part, it's hard to justify "i won't stop" unless you're actually using it for something which useful to you directly 23:46:09 I don't really get a lot of the hate for X out there, all of my problems were always caused by bad drivers. 23:46:38 ? didn't stassats mean clx, not x itself? 23:46:56 well, i don't hate anything, for one thing 23:47:30 no, I was referring to all the stuff I'm coming across in my study of X 23:48:18 oh. 23:48:29 maybe you'll see it once you know it better 23:49:26 stassats: I love searching for weaknesses in the tech I use, thats why I ran from away from python, finding flaws was too easy :) 23:50:05 CL is much more of a challenge 23:52:47 pavelpenev: there are warts in X... but IMO the idea itself isn't bad 23:53:11 and let's leave it at that, till I get the time to experiment with X12 proposal coded in CL ;) 23:55:12 p_l|x61s: yeah, protocol based architectures somehow apeal to me. 23:55:52 p_l|x61s: even the web, with all its nonsense has a beauty to it, buried deep, very very deep :) 23:56:45 what is a "protocol based architecture"? 23:57:18 facefox_com [~machine4@pool-108-38-17-101.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:24 stassats: I have no good definition, the web and X are well knows examples. 23:59:04 stassats: client-server with defined protocol, apparently 23:59:36 p_l|x61s: i don't think it has to be client-server, p2p as well 23:59:56 i don't know, everything has defined protocols