00:03:20 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:03:49 -!- atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving on a jet plane...] 00:04:37 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:06:28 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: rpg] 00:09:50 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 00:10:15 mritz_ [~textual@cpe-70-112-3-176.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:49 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:14:16 chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.74.117.95] has joined #lisp 00:14:17 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.74.117.95] has quit [Changing host] 00:14:17 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 00:16:15 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has joined #lisp 00:16:20 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:17:03 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:03 -!- mritz_ [~textual@cpe-70-112-3-176.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:19:32 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:12 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:26:13 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.201.28.196] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 00:28:28 -!- anon119 [~bman@12.104.144.2] has left #lisp 00:29:11 I ran across a post recently about hot patching the TCP stack on lisp machines but can't seem to find it. Anyone familiar with it?? 00:29:24 -!- iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:31:20 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:43 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:42 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:43:32 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:48:16 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:48:52 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:35 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-155.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 00:52:04 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:53:30 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 00:53:51 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AF13.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:59:12 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 01:02:38 -!- harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:35 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-148-233-236.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:06:09 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:07:33 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.64] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 01:08:36 fsmunoz [user@nat/ibm/x-okrqctubtilmesso] has joined #lisp 01:12:34 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-16-118.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 01:18:06 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:19:11 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.231.196] has joined #lisp 01:20:27 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.159.114] has joined #lisp 01:26:53 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:06 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:28:19 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-183-222.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:28:31 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 01:32:32 -!- fsmunoz [user@nat/ibm/x-okrqctubtilmesso] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:11 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.159.114] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:33 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.134.120] has joined #lisp 01:36:39 Daedalos [~Daedalos@wsip-24-249-48-167.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:16 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:16 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:37:16 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 01:40:41 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.54.108] has joined #lisp 01:41:08 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:41:11 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-facwruyzbjpqvsll] has joined #lisp 01:42:33 fsmunoz [~user@bl11-118-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 01:44:27 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:46:35 Mezon [32645a85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.100.90.133] has joined #lisp 01:46:41 hey there everyone! 01:47:07 is it possible to get a portable common lisp, emacs, and slime like running on a usb or something? 01:47:24 that would work if you take it whatever computer (say Windows) 01:48:28 Probably by putting them in a linux distribution that does that ... 01:49:19 oh :( 01:49:27 <_travis_> :o 01:49:36 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 01:49:40 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:53:22 Mezon: you could do that but i don't know if anyone has done it for you. 01:55:23 Are pretty much all of the best interpreters in linux? 01:55:44 the only interpreter I know of is clisp 01:55:49 and even it compiles to bytecode 01:55:50 -!- Mezon [32645a85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.100.90.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:55:56 Ok well im sold! 01:56:00 Installing slackware now :D 01:56:06 CCL runs on Windows and Macs. Lispworks runs on all kinds of things 01:56:15 corman lisp runs on Windows 01:56:24 yea but i hear lispworks is a chunk of change 01:56:27 Daedalos: many lisp environments run on windows to some degree or another. 01:56:35 there's a personal edition. anyway, CCL is free. 01:57:04 I have to say... I fell in love with the simplicity and logical symmetry to scheme 01:57:10 But I want to learn common first 01:57:59 Daedalos: so did I, until I tried to use it :) 01:58:09 reading a book, I hope 01:58:12 Yea... that is where the rubber meets the road 01:58:19 Daedalos: Learning one will help with the other. 01:59:19 I am trying to punch through 01:59:35 Structure and Interpretation of computer programs 01:59:45 don't mix languages, and don't mix metaphors 01:59:53 I have to say after the first chapter... and all the .net crap I learned with my degree 01:59:56 my head was hurting :D 02:00:14 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:00:25 What does 'logical symmetry' mean here? 02:00:38 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 02:00:47 the nesting of the parameters and arguments 02:00:50 in () 02:01:02 -!- kanru [~kanru@199.195.142.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:02:22 and how logical it looks 02:02:31 The code looks very logical 02:02:37 Easy to understand 02:02:45 "pretty" 02:02:46 lol 02:03:35 I hear Clisp is a little less pretty but has alot more abilities than scheme. 02:04:08 the language is called "CL", clisp is a particular implementation of it. 02:04:10 Daedalos: clisp is the name of one implementation of common lisp, so we abbreviate to "cl" 02:04:15 i find common lisp much more beautiful than scheme 02:04:55 so cl is different than common 02:05:05 no, CL is short for common lisp, sorry. 02:05:09 Gotcha 02:05:45 I haven't seen enough common lisp to see for myself so we will see. 02:06:22 Hard to believe they do not teach it in colleges 02:06:36 Why? 02:06:46 Because 02:06:47 they taught me scheme 2 semesters ago, i wish they didn't 02:06:56 I learned C++ 02:07:01 Some courses use it. It's not as widespread as Java/Python/whatever, of course. 02:07:05 and didnt have a clue why or how everything was derived 02:07:07 <_travis_> Daedalos: they do teach it in college/university. depends on where you go, what classes you take, and what professors you take the classes with. 02:07:22 But after I started reading into scheme and SICP 02:07:34 I started understanding how stuff worked 02:07:40 It is like it explained the creation of functions 02:07:49 I thought you were talking about CL. 02:07:52 my gosh... that it and of itself shed alot of light 02:07:56 I am talking about CL 02:08:00 no 02:08:01 scheme 02:08:06 I mean lisp in general 02:08:19 lisp in general does not exist in the observable universe 02:08:27 <_travis_> lol 02:08:27 haha yes this is true 02:08:28 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:08:38 Just so you know, this channel is for Common Lisp. Scheme has its own channel, #scheme. 02:08:46 Yea I am not wanting to learn scheme 02:08:54 Daedalos: Why not? 02:08:56 lisp in general is so general as to be meaningless 02:08:56 It is just what I started with, and I learned I had to make a choice 02:09:06 Well, you could learn both. 02:09:16 <_travis_> clojure is another, correct? 02:09:26 yup. 02:09:29 I read from the founder himself that scheme wouldn't necessarily help with learning cl 02:09:38 <_travis_> or am I wrong? i've never looked at clojure, my understanding is it was some sort of lisp or another lol. 02:09:43 Scheme has many admirable traits -- first class continuations and tail-call elimination being among them. 02:09:44 and cl is the most commonly used is it not? 02:10:03 I think that it's worthwhile learning scheme, even if you don't use it. 02:10:06 <_travis_> CL is not 'used'. there are implementations of it. CLISP, sbcl, CMUlisp, lisworks, etc. 02:10:10 Clojure I think (if I remember correctly) has alot more libraries 02:10:18 its like an extended version of scheme? 02:10:24 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:10:25 or cl? 02:10:39 Why isn't it used 02:10:46 _travis_: clojure is adequate as modern languages go, and even enjoyable, if you can avoid dealing with the JVM(not that hard) 02:10:49 Clojure is like a bastard child of CL and Java -- with much of the detritus of CL washed away, and the java libraries nailed on. 02:10:53 It is a higher level language than anything that exists today 02:11:02 Daedalus: That is meaningless gibberish. 02:11:17 <_travis_> i cannot tolerate java :o 02:11:38 Most people find that they can tolerate java, for a price. 02:11:46 Zhivago: while i agree that Rich Hickey threw away way too many babies with the bathwater, it turned out usable. 02:11:55 <_travis_> Zhivago: :) 02:12:33 pavel: Personally, I think that CL has a lot of unnecessary crap in it. 02:12:53 pavel: I don't have a problem with washing away hacks that accumulated because they were expedient 20 years ago. 02:13:10 It doesn't make any sense. From what I have read on the internet lisp derivatives and cl itself has been capable for higher order operations for years upon years, and yet everything moved in the direction of Fortran, and C after the AI trend went away. 02:13:39 Daedalos: it makes perfect sense once you account for human nature 02:13:41 Daedalos: Everything has been moving away from the direction of fortran and C. 02:13:56 Yea it is heading toward python now. 02:13:59 Daedalus: How many new programming languages can you think of without garbage collection and lexical closures? 02:14:02 Daedalos: the best way to experience the virtues of the past and the beauty of the future, is to just learn common lisp. now hop on to your book and start reading. 02:14:03 Because python is becoming more and more lisp like. 02:14:22 No. I don't think that python is -- if anything it is resisting becoming more lisp-like. 02:14:44 Zhivago: old systems inevitably have old stuff in them, but its more trouble to get rid of them, you for instance have a lot of junk DNA that serves no purpose than to just be there, yet, evolution doesn't see the need to get rid of it. 02:14:59 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:15:03 <_travis_> Daedalos: you have great passion, but you need to do some reading on it :) 02:15:20 pavel: Sure, and clojure took a good opportunity to clean up. 02:15:25 <_travis_> Daedalos: Do you have a book to read to ge tyou started on on CL? If not there are plenty of recomendations :) 02:15:34 That junk dna can be activated based upon the situation that calls for it. 02:15:43 -!- SHUPFS [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 02:16:09 Zhivago: if you want to claim that you know better than what lisp has become, you'd do good to use the complete name of those you're talking to. it's a freaking TAB to press and it shows a bit more respect to those you're talking to. 02:16:23 Frankly, if anything, lisp won -- and is now finding it increasingly difficult to compete with its indirect progeny. 02:16:40 I am reading "onlisp" 02:16:41 as on the subject, the cruft that Common Lisp has is there so the old dialects can still be ran. I suspect it is less than what Java has with AWT and friends. 02:16:42 madnificent: Why would I want to /msg adams ? 02:17:14 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:17:18 <_travis_> Daedalos: My understanding is that is a good book. I hope you enjoy it :) 02:17:19 Zhivago: you want to write the full name of the person, your IRC client should have support for it. if not, use a sane one. 02:17:32 Thanks :) Yea it has been great so far! 02:17:40 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-172-122.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:17:42 mad: Why would I want to do that? 02:18:02 <_travis_> Zhivago: it seems to be the standard. respect, clarity, and so we can all be sane. 02:18:11 Zhivago: some clients highlight messages addressed with full nicknames 02:18:23 travis: I will note the preconditions for your sanity. 02:18:27 Daedalos: keep in mind that, even though SICL packs quite a few pages, it is far from the end-point of lisp's beauty. it truely is a start (but not a bad one) 02:18:31 _travis_:I tried to read land of lisp but just didn't catch fire like onlisp 02:18:50 travis: Will you turn into something like the Joker if I do not? 02:19:17 magnificent: Yea... me finishing that would be a miracle but I know coming out the other side would be one hell of a programmer 02:19:33 <_travis_> Zhivago: no, but i wont know when you're talking to me because my client wont pop up with a message because it doesn't think my name is travis. therefore i may not ever see your message. 02:19:54 travis: Perhaps, but since you can't spell "won't", that may not be a great loss. 02:19:55 Zhivago: Java is the indirect progeny? 02:20:17 _travis_: under the presumption taht Zhivago may still be a bot (all statements can be googled and copied over), perhaps sanity is not one of its features ;) (i wave you goodbye, respect) 02:20:33 <_travis_> Zhivago: and while I have no issues with the lack of respect that others may, someone with the correct answer may choose to ignore you just because you refuse to follow a simple convention. to be clear - i don't care if you do or don't; but clearly others do. and you may wish to acquire their assistence in the future. 02:21:05 Daedalos: Java has garbage collection and introspection, and so on. It's a step in that direction, at least. 02:21:41 Daedalos: But I was thinking more of python and javascript. You can also look at the evolution of C++. 02:22:07 <_travis_> madnificent: :) 02:22:13 Daedalos: don't worry about the size. you're learning to program. if you have a lot of C# knowledge, practical common lisp might be better. but the pace is *a lot* higher. the PCL also focusses less on the basics, a lot less. 02:22:28 travis: How much disrespect does it indicate to not capitalise properly? 02:23:30 Zhivago, _travis_ : May I politely suggest PM? I'd like to discuss cool lisp books :) 02:23:32 Zhivago: you may be interested in Eric Naggums take on it. though i agree, it may be an odd thing to do, it is done with reason :) good to notice though. 02:23:49 back to lisp indeed 02:24:11 <_travis_> Daedalos: if you're looking for another book you may want to check out: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 02:24:15 So there is no use of lisp in the world today other than in specific implementations? 02:24:37 _travis_: Thanks. 02:24:53 That question doesn't really make sense, any more than "there is no use of C except in specific implementations". 02:24:54 Daedalos: Common Lisp is used a lot, but you will rarely hear about it on Hacker News, or whatever your source of tech news might be 02:25:12 Daedalos: the standard isn't likely going to change. so assume that's golden. but software is written, which follows the standards, and runs on implementations. 02:25:54 Hard to believe. 02:25:56 <_travis_> Daedalos: you may also find comp.lang.lisp an interesting google group to follow. it lets you see what others are working on and give you an idea of how much (or for me, how little :) ) you understand as of yet. 02:26:04 Daedalos: what do you mean? 02:26:40 madnificent: It is just a very portable, and flexible language that is not mainstream. 02:26:51 madnificent: It is hard to believe. 02:27:13 Daedalos: why doesn't MTV blast Charlie Parker all day? same reason 02:27:26 you could join the army of bloggers speculating on why CL isn't popular, if you like 02:27:34 daedalos: Why is it hard to believe? 02:27:42 pavelpenev: Yet they are blasting "C", C++, C#, and Java all day long? 02:27:53 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.231.196] has quit [Quit: timepilot] 02:27:57 daedalos: Are you familiar with betamax vs' vhs? 02:28:18 daedalos: There's a very simple reason that vhs won. 02:28:23 Daedalos: it looks vastly different than other languages, and it's not the language people learn to start with (though it could be used for that), therefore not many people learn it. some programmers i know find it annoying that multiple languages exist, they basically work in a subset of everything they know (hence, they will not learn lisp because it doesn't serve any benefit for them). it's a cultural thing, i guess. 02:28:24 Daedalos: in the analogy, "C" is [popular modern band I dislike] 02:28:24 No, I meant why does pop music exist, when Charlie Parker clearly has the music chops of the entire music industry for the last 40 years 02:28:39 daedalos: The quality wasn't as good, but it allowed the recording of full movies on a single tape. 02:28:51 daedalos: Which is what it turned out that people actually cared about. 02:28:55 I don't know why I put C in quotes... 02:29:09 Daedalos: to be fair, one of the things that drew me to lisp was probably exactly that: wanting to find out why it wasn't used as often. i still don't know. 02:29:14 Daedalos: language trends come and go, so one generally always hears more about new languages than old ones. Common Lisp is older than most, and as such as a more constant attraction factor. On the other hand, concepts that have always been present in CL appear as novelty selling points in otehr languages. It's a language with a difference root from most Algol-derived languages that are thought today, which also make 02:29:14 s it somewhat harder. 02:29:18 (IMO) 02:29:53 <_travis_> Daedalos: in general I find most people to be uncomfortable with change. to me, going from pretty much any type of programming language to a dialect of lisp is certainly a big change. 02:30:15 Tayssir John Gabbour had a fun quote about that, which I'll paraphrase: In many languages, paradigms arrive light sitcom characters, pausing for applause and dominating the scene. 02:30:22 light? "like". 02:30:28 Heh. 02:30:31 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 02:30:38 There is still no alternative to lisp AI wise. 02:30:39 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:30:48 Daedalos: That's complete bullshit. 02:30:51 Daedalos: what gave you that idea? 02:30:59 Can any other language call itself? 02:31:06 Daedalos: Sure. 02:31:11 What does that have to do with AI? 02:31:11 perl has eval 02:31:18 Xach: a professor I imagine :) 02:31:27 Anyway, AI research has largely moved away from symbolic computation, hasn't it? "GOFAI" and all. 02:31:36 AI, these days, tends to be statistically based. 02:31:36 Sigh 02:31:51 Guess times do change. 02:31:58 Daedalos: There are no unique features in CL. 02:32:17 But does any other language have all the benefits? 02:32:26 Daedalos: lisp was used for that initially. for some things (like genetic algorithms) lisp is still extremely good. and you can still write everything in lisp, however alternatives exist. in my opinion, lisp is extremely good in high-level things (making things understandable) whilst not trading in on low-level optimizations. 02:32:36 Daedalos: No other language has the same balance, but that goes both ways. 02:32:40 Daedalos: the Lisp / AI association was more a matter of same time, same place, than any specific characteristic of Lisp itself 02:32:48 Zhivago: the feature of having all features common lisp has seems to be one. 02:32:56 Daedalos: smalltalk comes close, IMO at least it had similar goals 02:33:13 smalltalk is rather cool 02:33:36 Always found it very "clean", not sure how to explain it 02:33:39 yes, i regret not having enough time to learn it properly, maybe spring break 02:33:54 smalltalk is cool in the sense that it offers a lot of expressiveness with little. however, lisp offers me more expressivity, so i don't see why i would walk away from it. 02:34:16 That is the whole strong point of lisp isn't it? Achieve more while writing less? 02:34:28 Well, I do it for the ladies 02:34:33 Haha 02:35:07 Well bottom line everyone in here can try to say lisp is dead, but if it was not so many people would believe in it. 02:35:12 It hasn't been replaced. 02:35:22 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:28 Daedalos: less may be a relative term though. i think clean code needs to have the least amount of concepts embedded in it. ie: choosing very short function names doesn't make your application easier to understand, but chosing a structure which suits your problem does. 02:35:34 It is still as upper level a language as any of the others today it just lacks the libraries most languages have developed in my opinion. 02:35:53 most of us use lisp all the time, that's hardly thinking it's dead. we're just easily pulled into arguments about it 02:36:01 What does "upper level" mean? 02:36:09 It means the opposite of Fortran 02:36:27 Higher level 02:36:27 Daedalos: what libraries are you missing? I rarely have a problem I can't solve with a quickload 02:36:34 -!- argoneus [~argoneus@unaffiliated/argoneus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:36:40 hey, don't knock Fortran. Have you looked at it lately? People write automatic differentiators for it and such. 02:36:42 pavelpenev: No idea going off what I read again. 02:36:51 Daedalos: and even the libraries seem to be quite ok (at least better than i assumed). in fact, the proliferation of some libraries is often a problem. take a look at the amount of jason parsers, or html/xml expansion libraries. finding libraries that work used to be a problem, but Xach kindly solved that with quicklisp. 02:37:14 Daedalos: don't, people lie, especially if it makes them feel better for putting other peoples hard work down, by spreading FUD 02:37:36 pavelpenev: Yea there are alot of fanboys out there for their popular languages. 02:38:14 Daedalos: The Buddha said "Be lambs unto yourselves" meaning don't follow other peoples bullshit, learn from your own experience. 02:38:57 Ironic that Buddhism became a religion :) 02:38:58 pavelpenev:Learning from ourselves is the best experience but the most costly as well. 02:40:12 Actually, he said "don't listen to monks because they are monks". :) 02:40:24 Daedalos: I don't mean ignore whats out there, just be critical, and treat your own believes with extra suspicion 02:40:53 Agree. 02:40:58 Zhivago: actually, he said something in Hindu nobody wrote down for centuries, so it could have been Abe Lincoln for all we know 02:41:11 Abe Lincoln was an atheist 02:41:15 . 02:41:25 Daedalos: irrelevant, please, back to lisp :) 02:41:55 Of course, he also said "don't use logical inference". 02:42:03 http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.065.than.html 02:42:40 Pavelpenev :D 02:42:44 lisp people, my Buddha quote was to illustrate something relating to lisp 02:43:00 What do :static-file and :legacy-file do in asdf? I've never seen them before. 02:45:59 Bike: Definition: static files: Files (such as system configuration files and binaries), that do not change without an action from the system administrator or an agent that the system administrator has allowed to accomplish the task. 02:46:41 Daedalos: not useful. Context is important. 02:48:43 Bike: Pathname specifier? 02:49:25 Bike: http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/The-defsystem-grammar.html Do a find for static-file 02:49:42 yes, that was the obvious thing to look up... thanks. 02:49:47 :D 02:50:28 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:28 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:50:28 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 02:50:33 oh, and legacy-file is custom. oops. 02:51:06 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 02:52:37 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:54:20 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:39 anyone know of any interesting poetry-generation or other grammar/diction-related projects one might find of interest? 02:57:34 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:58:53 Given how hard it is for humans to produce poetry, no. 02:59:23 As for grammar/diction, I guess it depends on what you find iteresting. 03:00:02 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@75.37.17.153] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 03:00:10 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 03:00:27 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-17-153.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:32 pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 03:00:48 Rule based systems are out of fashion at the moment, but there's been some interesting stuff in chain grammars. 03:01:05 nydel: If an attempt would be made I would think a haiku would be the easiest because it is not very reliant on grammar. 03:01:21 The problem with poetry is that it is highly dependent on connotation. 03:01:32 hey, anyone have issues with slime/sbcl on osx 10.8? 03:01:56 If you just want gibberish with the correct form, it is not hard. 03:02:38 Makes you wonder how possible would it be to make a haiku from words that are synonyms to the topic. 03:02:45 pavelpenev: late on clx, but it also has an #+explorer conditional, looks like 03:02:46 pnathan1: yes, you can try and build https://github.com/pkhuong/sbcl/tree/fix-10.8; I intend to commit it soonish. 03:03:54 -!- benny [~user@i577A17D4.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:04:22 pkhuong: Thanks. What was the bug? 03:06:15 echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 03:07:05 It seems that, at some point, Mach supported using arbitrary addresses as port names. They decided to stop the punning when moving to 64 bit platforms, and now even addresses that fit in 32 bit may be rejected. 03:07:31 Daedalos: hey that's a really fun idea 03:07:32 Bike: As in TI explorer? The copy-write notice says TI, so its not surprising :) 03:07:43 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:07:54 Daedalos: i wonder if i can write something to determine the number of syllables in a word rather than making lists by hand. 03:08:22 nydel: It depends on the script, but there are syllibification algorithms. 03:08:23 -!- echo-are` is now known as echo-area 03:08:26 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.54.108] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:32 nydel: there are specialised dictionaries for that. 03:08:50 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:08:52 Nice. 03:09:21 nydel: http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/264285/1/MarchandAdsettDamper_ISCA07.pdf 03:09:24 Zhivago: pkhuong: i always wish english was a bit less, uh, unpredictable. more like some constructed languages, like solresol 03:09:29 Bike: Ah, I think I see where the question about :static-file came from :) 03:09:34 pavelpenev: so I assume. but it's new to me 03:09:43 I didn't even know Explorers existed until PAIP. 03:10:19 benny [~user@i577A7C80.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 03:10:37 nydel: It just inhabits a sour spot between morphologically coherent and phonetic. 03:10:42 And there's #-genera... 03:10:46 damn Zhivago you had that locked & loaded didn't you - totally what i needed! 03:10:58 nydel: I wish it were closer to Chinese, myself. 03:13:34 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 03:15:16 -!- p_l|home [~pl@91.222.124.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:17:18 Zhivago: i don't know much chinese. just latin-based stuff & some hebrew. are you fluent in the chinese? 03:18:03 I don't speak Chinese, but I deal with the script a fair bit. 03:19:23 nydel: http://www.zompist.com/spell.html may interest you, if you haven't seen it before. 03:21:58 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:47 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-79-163.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:23:28 nydel: On the other hand, you can be happy that you aren't dealing with Japanese. 03:24:11 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-248-228.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 03:24:11 disciple [~krishna@117.201.28.196] has joined #lisp 03:27:18 Japanese has the exciting feature of being able to write television and read it as scryer. 03:28:54 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 03:37:52 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:39:28 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-facwruyzbjpqvsll] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:40:57 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:42:31 -!- pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:42:40 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-223.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:43:18 -!- gekko_ [~jjk@78.157.103.6] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 03:44:13 shinta42 [~shinta42@123.120.75.19] has joined #lisp 03:44:50 gekko_ [~jjk@78.157.103.6] has joined #lisp 03:45:50 -!- DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@184.99.23.182] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:45:56 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:46:28 http://pastebin.com/cW8D99TP how do i eval the obj parameter in line 9 in slime? 03:47:21 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:54:09 shinta42: your question confuses me 03:54:30 DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@184.99.23.182] has joined #lisp 03:55:25 shinta42: what are you doing here? writing the sims / farmville? 03:55:46 nydel: the code is from land of lisp, i think 03:57:06 yah from the booki 03:57:10 eggsby [~egghead@208.79.90.226] has joined #lisp 03:57:39 what i meant is i want to see the value of obj as the function is executing 03:57:48 -!- fsmunoz [~user@bl11-118-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:57:56 because i have no idea where it gets it value from 03:58:26 put a (print obj) in the function somewhere. 03:58:43 is there a way to evalue it in slime instead of writing debug statements? 03:58:50 just like how u evalute a function 03:58:56 You could step through it? 03:59:06 I dont know how to step yet :( 03:59:07 lol 03:59:14 (step (objects-at 'living-room *objects* *object-locations*)) 03:59:14 shinta42: the function at-loc-p is called for every object in objs 03:59:31 -!- nicdev [~user@kilimanjaro.rafpepa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:00:03 so obj gets bound to each of the items in the list, no need to get fancy, when old-fashioned thinking can get the job done 04:00:41 pavelpenev, bike: thanks 04:01:12 go register your www.outlook.com email...=)... 04:01:21 it just came out 04:01:55 IF you can beat the captcha 04:02:05 shinta42: i'd rather kill myself with by eating a bathtub of beans 04:02:28 that is oddly specific 04:02:44 pavelpenev:my real name is taken by someoen else in gmail..now is my 2nd chance 10 yrs later lol 04:03:08 antifuchs: maddox reference :) 04:04:17 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:09:49 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:13:36 MoALTz [~no@92.8.233.202] has joined #lisp 04:13:47 rtj [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 04:14:42 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:15:14 -!- Daedalos [~Daedalos@wsip-24-249-48-167.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:24:42 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-cbylzbywbytergku] has joined #lisp 04:27:10 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:28:20 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 04:32:03 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.8.233.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:32:37 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:32:43 nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@smtpbt.pramati.com] has joined #lisp 04:38:47 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:41:31 wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-130-197.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:41:35 -!- wakeup_ [~max@xdsl-89-0-188-38.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:43:06 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:44:17 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-cbylzbywbytergku] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:44:17 asvil [~asvil@178.120.164.227] has joined #lisp 04:44:49 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:45:32 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-ldpasqupjxedxtgo] has joined #lisp 04:49:15 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-16-118.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:12 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:50:36 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:52:21 evening 04:52:26 springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has joined #lisp 04:56:11 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:57:47 slyrus: hi. I have question about clx, can I ask you? 04:58:19 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.201.28.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:59:36 lcc [d03627d6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.54.39.214] has joined #lisp 05:00:54 disciple [~krishna@117.201.28.196] has joined #lisp 05:03:12 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 05:04:17 -!- shinta42 [~shinta42@123.120.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:06:10 PissedNumlock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 05:06:24 shinta42 [~shinta42@123.120.85.97] has joined #lisp 05:07:24 -!- PissedNu1lock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:08:57 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-162-50-137.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:09:23 sure, but it's late here. I probably won't get to it until tomorrow. 05:10:33 -!- PissedNumlock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:11:27 PissedNumlock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 05:11:52 sorry, different timezones:) 05:12:25 I will ask later 05:12:54 -!- lcc [d03627d6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.54.39.214] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:15:54 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 05:22:06 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:22:43 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-231-37.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 05:31:50 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 05:33:08 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:39:45 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.57.77] has joined #lisp 05:41:50 -!- rrradical [~rrradical@c-50-137-77-177.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:41:55 -!- shinta42 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[~ur5us@223.194.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 08:16:14 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:19:27 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-qhpubksedzjaitxy] has joined #lisp 08:21:04 hello. long time ago i created a binary (sbcl), but i am not sure about the refering source-code. is it possible to get informations about keyword-parameters (incl. their defaults) of a given function from the repl? 08:22:41 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.105.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:23:20 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.121] has joined #lisp 08:23:34 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:24:47 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 08:25:16 oh, my (too low coffeine-level) surely (inspect #') does what i need ... 08:30:54 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 08:33:33 TimKack [~user@213.208.236.186] has joined #lisp 08:35:14 -!- rtj [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: 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09:34:06 -!- ozialien [~ozi@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has left #lisp 09:34:27 kevinyings1 [~aprilthir@218.108.89.46] has joined #lisp 09:34:28 |3b| [foobar@72.179.19.4] has joined #lisp 09:35:51 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-155.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 09:35:55 -!- kevinyings [~aprilthir@218.108.89.46] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:38:31 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:40:27 setekhid [~hzdai@112.4.154.131] has joined #lisp 09:40:43 -!- setekhid [~hzdai@112.4.154.131] has left #lisp 09:41:54 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:43:42 rtj [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 09:44:21 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:21 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:44:21 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 09:44:40 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:50:16 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-155.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:51:03 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 09:52:03 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 10:03:53 -!- kevinyings1 [~aprilthir@218.108.89.46] has quit [Quit: kevinyings1] 10:10:13 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 10:10:59 dlowe: clisp has an interpreter that runs the sexps. ecl and sbcl have too! (only they don't use it by default, while clisp uses it by default). 10:16:07 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 10:16:22 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 10:17:16 so I could finally get ecl to work on my android, but it is only an interpreter, is it not possible to have a compiler (even bytecode) 10:21:36 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:24:00 francogrex: just in case, did you see that ccl now supports armv6? 10:25:16 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:25:42 minion: memo for Daedalos: lisp in general is discussed in #lisp-lab 10:25:43 Remembered. I'll tell Daedalos when he/she/it next speaks. 10:26:42 pavelpenev: lisp in general: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122296 (or see Shen's kernel lisp, or etc). 10:34:22 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 10:44:19 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:09 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:49:11 vaus [~vaus@104.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:36 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 10:56:17 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:59:37 springz [~springz@gate-zmy3.freescale.com] has joined #lisp 11:00:14 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:01:07 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 11:02:10 hi,in the http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_prog1c.htm,it says "prog2 evaluates first-form, then second-form, and then forms, yielding as its only value the primary value yielded by first-form." 11:02:26 is the last 'first-form' should be 'second-form'? 11:03:05 cfy: yes, that is a spec bug 11:03:19 cfy: you've not been reading cliki.net; shame on you! 11:03:21 cfy: http://www.cliki.net/Proposed%20ANSI%20Revisions%20and%20Clarifications 11:03:47 Nobody reads cliki.net 11:03:47 fsmunoz [~user@bl11-118-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:03:52 Not reading it is not a problem 11:05:23 *asvil* writes pages on cliki.net. For nothing. 11:05:30 -!- springz [~springz@gate-zmy3.freescale.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:05:30 oh,But why Kent Pitman don't fix these bugs? 11:05:35 polishing jewels in the dark 11:05:41 cfy: they were not discovered in time 11:05:51 cfy: because a standard is a standard. Not something you change every five minutes! 11:06:15 i have saw Bug reports in the hyperSpec 11:06:27 cfy: so in the mean time, you write the clarifications on cliki, and next time, in 30 or 50 years, when we standardize a new CL, we'll incorporate the changes. 11:07:07 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:07:52 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 11:08:17 ozialien [~ozi@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:08:20 pjb: oh,got that.the standard have these bugs,so does HyperSpec 11:08:37 pjb: Xach: Thanks :) 11:09:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@m212-96-66-58.cust.tele2.kz] has joined #lisp 11:09:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@m212-96-66-58.cust.tele2.kz] has quit [Changing host] 11:09:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:12:53 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-155.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 11:13:20 Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has joined #lisp 11:15:22 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.57] has joined #lisp 11:20:11 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:22:11 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:34 _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:59 -!- DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@184.99.23.182] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:29:34 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has quit [Quit: Yes, you heard me right.] 11:30:39 bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:30:51 -!- ozialien [~ozi@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ozialien] 11:31:31 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.2] 11:32:22 Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has joined #lisp 11:32:46 younder [~john@69.248.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 11:32:50 hi all 11:33:40 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-196-42.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:34:58 Figured we needed some lazy evaluation in CL. Consing is expensive. So I used approach alla racket and serial. Interested? 11:36:31 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 11:37:00 DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@184.99.23.182] has joined #lisp 11:37:08 Or am I still on the idiot list. In which case I won't bother. 11:39:03 Anyhow funlib though elegant is rather slow.. 11:39:49 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:39:50 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:39:50 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 11:42:10 For some reason, there have been lots of people implementing lazy evaluation in CL. 11:42:46 argoneus [~argoneus@unaffiliated/argoneus] has joined #lisp 11:42:53 I know I recently did. Then I saw about 10 other people [exaggerated] on the internet do it too 11:43:12 Yes, It goes back to the 90's.. I believe I mentioned serial. 11:43:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-41.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:44:30 Here was my 10 minute go at it: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/lisp-random/raw/71ea821d72dc/delay.lisp 11:47:10 make-promise :) You really have got into this lazy bit haven't you .. lol 11:50:20 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B4E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:59 I actually wrote this so I could correctly compute short-circuit operations with an arbitrary number of elements. 11:51:48 girzel [~user@114.250.132.156] has joined #lisp 11:52:02 H4ns: hi, no I didn't know that thanks for the info I will certainly try it 11:52:34 KingsKnighted [~quassel@174.52.149.13] has joined #lisp 11:56:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-41.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:56:08 genargs seems to be missing 11:58:15 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:58:16 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 11:59:00 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:20 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:00:13 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:10 younder, eh? it's in the LET 12:01:31 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-152-12.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:28 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:07:28 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 12:08:49 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:11:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:55 -!- leoncamel [~user@219.142.131.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:15:14 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 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[~user@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has left #lisp 12:42:09 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 12:44:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:45:08 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:49:42 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:50:50 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:51:15 if you do *somevariable* 12:51:21 does that make it global or is it just a naming convention? 12:51:25 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:51:29 The latter. 12:51:36 oh ok 12:51:38 thanks 12:52:57 defvar and defparameter establish the specialness of a variable. 12:53:24 That and proclaim, declaim, and declare. 12:54:20 eni [~eni@95-178-196-129.dsl.optinet.hr] has joined #lisp 12:54:30 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.134.120] has joined #lisp 12:55:51 leo2007 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[~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 14:47:30 v0|d [~user@95.9.238.159] has joined #lisp 14:48:29 hello, i'm looking for a way to match & indent specific html tags like <:html, <:body etc. using slime. 14:48:52 http://wandrian.net/2012-06-16-1450-html-sexpr-indentation.html this is very ugly. 14:49:52 chturne [~chturne@host86-150-105-110.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:53 is there a way to match function names using regexp? like "(<:\\(sw+\\)" and say indent-as &body in slime? 14:50:07 v0|d: the mechanism? or the result? 14:50:32 Xach: result that i wan't to achive is the same. 14:50:45 yet i have many more symbol so i won't be able to list them all. 14:51:05 for instance i want to say "Indent all symbol that such XYZ package exports" 14:51:06 I think yaclml gets around that by making <:body an actual macro. 14:51:31 sykopomp: i know, but mines are not macros:( 14:51:37 -!- pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:51:37 sykopomp: they'r functions. 14:54:10 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:55:46 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 15:00:44 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:01:39 -!- pferor [~pferor@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:01:57 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:03:06 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:18 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:06:31 -!- vedm [~user@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:44 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-223.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:08:34 -!- v0|d [~user@95.9.238.159] has left #lisp 15:09:48 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-fajrjauqjledjnvc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:51 -!- fantazo 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[~user@114.250.132.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:31 girzel [~user@114.250.132.156] has joined #lisp 16:07:34 -!- TimKack [~user@213.208.236.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:36 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Quit: PuercoPop] 16:11:01 anon119 [~bman@12.104.148.2] has joined #lisp 16:13:48 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:14:51 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 16:17:32 aside from package-local-nicknames, file-local-nicknames could be a handy feat too 16:18:29 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:18:31 CL has an unfortunately messy concept of the scope of a source file 16:19:31 I love CL, but one thing python really got right was that you can easily trace every symbol back to its definition by following its declaration in the source file 16:19:54 (let ((*readtable* *readtable*)) ) So you can (setf *readtable* file-local-nickname:*readtable*) in each file. 16:26:03 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:20 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 16:26:57 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:23 dlowe: in my programs, there are tons of symbols that never appear in the source files. What does that tell you about lisp vs. python? 16:32:37 Why can't you trace tree nodes in python sources? 16:32:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:35:18 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@200.48.22.49] has joined #lisp 16:36:00 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:37:48 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.50.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:41:51 pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:44:24 momo-reina [~user@122.179.91.135] has joined #lisp 16:47:22 eusebio [Qtr@94.191.174.15.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 16:47:26 jewel_ [~jewel@196-210-172-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:48:08 How could I defmacro something that lets me do (mapcar '(\x->x*x) '(1 2 3)) => (1 4 9) ? 16:49:11 <|3b|> sounds difficult, unless MAPCAR isn't CL:MAPCAR, or unless you want to write a code walker 16:49:19 eusebio: (shadow 'mapcar) (defun mapcar (eusebio-sexp list) (cl:mapcar (parse-eusebio-sexp-and-generate-function eusebio-sexp) list)) 16:49:19 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:21 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:49:32 eusebio: usually you stop wanting that after a while. 16:49:36 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:46 Parsing symbols like x->x*x into functions is a classic lisp thing. 16:49:46 <|3b|> probably easier to use a reader macro for simplifying LAMBDA syntax 16:49:55 usually substantially earlier than you learn how to do it 16:50:36 _travis_ [~nonya@c-98-244-123-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:56 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:11 See for example http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/code/syntax/infix/0.html 16:51:51 i meant more the sugar for lambdas rather than infix. like (map '(\x -> * x x) '(1 2 3)) 16:51:57 would be fine too 16:52:13 Of course, this was done at a time when availability of strings and powerful string processing functions were available to lisp. In the old time, you'd use symbols for everything. 16:52:27 Nowadays, You'd just write a parser for your language, and hook it with a reader macro. 16:52:44 -!- eggsby [~egghead@208.79.90.226] has left #lisp 16:52:47 eusebio: the problem you have is that you're insisting on quoting those sexps.! 16:52:53 That cannot be processed by a macro. 16:53:29 <|3b|> you could have something like #l(x -> (* x x)) pretty easily 16:53:32 If you didn't you could write a macro named \x. (defmacro \x (-> &rest expression) `(lambda (x) )) (macar (\x -> * x x) '(1 2 3)) 16:53:37 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.156.201] has joined #lisp 16:53:51 '(\x -> * x x) => (\x -> * x x) ; always. 16:53:57 You cannot call a macro, since you're quoting the form! 16:54:09 macro transform code into code! 16:54:25 If you have data, as signaled by quote, you can't have code, therefore no macro. 16:55:47 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:55:47 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 16:58:54 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:00:57 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-236-74.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:01:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:02:29 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 17:03:06 -!- eni [~eni@95-178-196-129.dsl.optinet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:03:38 disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.142] has joined #lisp 17:03:54 X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 17:04:18 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest60651 17:05:08 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:06:35 -!- momo-reina [~user@122.179.91.135] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:01 -!- Guest60651 [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Client Quit] 17:10:11 DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@184.99.23.182] has joined #lisp 17:10:46 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 17:11:29 Guest60651 [~email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 17:12:08 -!- Guest60651 is now known as X-Scale 17:14:10 -!- antonv [2e35c344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:15:04 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:15:19 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:18:05 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:20:17 -!- wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-130-197.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:22:02 wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-170-184.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:27:08 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:27:28 -!- anon119 [~bman@12.104.148.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:27:48 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@75.162.50.137] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:29:02 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:14 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:30:57 -!- DGASAU` [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:31 anon119 [~bman@12.104.148.2] has joined #lisp 17:31:37 DGASAU` [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 17:37:21 -!- blbef [~chatzilla@89.144.206.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:39:32 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-qhpubksedzjaitxy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:39:36 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:16 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 17:41:24 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 17:42:07 blbef [~chatzilla@089144206153.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:55 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 17:46:03 -!- xan_ [~xan@fanzine.igalia.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:48:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:48:54 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85680f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:31 -!- vaus [~vaus@104.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: vaus] 17:51:49 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 17:51:57 nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@123.201.229.50] has joined #lisp 17:54:49 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.142] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 18:01:27 -!- ngz [~user@235.111.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:10 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 18:02:18 centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-162-50-137.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:53 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:10:16 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:11:03 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:11:46 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:12:13 any attempt at adding a timeout feature to cl-irc ? 18:12:33 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:14:12 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-239-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:03 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:15:06 -!- blbef [~chatzilla@089144206153.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:15:12 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 18:15:29 mztriz [~mztriz@nkugateway.nku.edu] has joined #lisp 18:16:01 -!- mztriz [~mztriz@nkugateway.nku.edu] has left #lisp 18:18:21 seems like there's no gc/truncate for beirc..... 18:18:32 it gets full and full and at some time it just explodes! 18:18:44 lol 18:21:55 wbooze: is there a log of everything that's been said? if such a reference is kept somewhere, the data is kept live and will fill up memory... eventually 18:22:05 fezghoul [~user@76.85.161.167] has joined #lisp 18:22:20 no 18:22:25 no logging afaik 18:22:45 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:23:28 i just notice the timeout thing not being avail cause reconnections don't happen automatically and the other is, it sometimes happens with the bombing out i mean not everytime, cause most of the time the connection just gets lost first... 18:23:58 without ever reaching the memory limit.... 18:24:19 happened two time now only.....in say like 10 connections or so.... 18:26:42 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:08 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:28:47 blbef [~chatzilla@089144206153.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:16 -!- fezghoul [~user@76.85.161.167] has left #lisp 18:32:20 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 18:33:21 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@89.130.60.29] has quit [] 18:33:56 -!- piko [~piko@ip4-83-240-108-205.cust.nbox.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:37:02 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 18:37:46 disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.142] has joined #lisp 18:42:22 bitonic [~user@host86-138-142-168.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:42:30 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:43:03 umm this might come out offensive 18:43:10 but, what exactly is Lisp for? It's neither easy nor fast 18:43:22 eheh 18:43:39 it is fast! 18:43:49 well, personally i think it's easy and fast~ 18:44:06 it's easy ...meh 18:44:13 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 18:44:16 it's faster than C++? 18:44:25 i think it's fast enough but easy ?...hmmmmmmmm...... 18:44:35 psykotron [~user@2607:f298:2:120::69c:4502] has joined #lisp 18:44:41 i started to learn programming from lisp, sooo, at least for me it is 18:44:44 the language itself may be easy enough but certainly it depends on your style ...... 18:45:01 argoneus: is java faster than C++? 18:45:05 argoneus: do you care? 18:45:08 *|3b|* finds it easy and fast also 18:45:20 when you make it complicated.....and just string everything onto other.....it may make it .....unwieldy.... 18:45:54 argoneus: Sometimes Common Lisp is faster than C++, but generally it's 50 to 80 percent the speed of C++, provided that type declarations have been added to the code. 18:46:01 argoneus: lisp is rather fast, depending on what you do and how you do it :) lisp is used in justa bout anything, as it's always good to have high-level code which also performs well (which is in contrast to common other high-level languages). 18:46:11 <_travis_> argoneus: there is a pretty good argument that it's faster in terms of development time. you should read paul graham's take on that :) 18:46:24 wbooze: you can just don't do that 18:46:57 i hope it was meant as "you can, just don't do that" 18:46:59 <_travis_> argoneus: http://paulgraham.com/avg.html read that. 18:47:08 ok 18:47:10 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:47:33 yep bad style matters in lisp tho.....i dunno.... 18:48:12 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:48:41 wbooze: bad style matters everywhere~ 18:49:24 what I meant was 18:49:33 python is much simpler than lisp and C++ is much faster than lisp 18:49:38 so what is Lisp used for in practice? 18:50:08 argoneus: Writing programs. 18:50:13 Xach: what kind of? 18:50:18 obviously it's not used for videogame development 18:50:37 sellout [~Adium@65.101.242.214] has joined #lisp 18:50:43 not for real-time stuff..... 18:50:52 TDT [~user@bouncer.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 18:50:57 argoneus: I use it to create graphics files for websites, to process very large report files, to run a simple search engine, and things like that. There's no one thing. 18:50:58 'real-time stuff'? 18:51:19 c++ is often a little faster than lisp. In lisp, you can try 4 different algorithms in the time it take you to debug 1 in C, and turn n**3 into n log n, which will be faster 18:51:22 argoneus: I use Lisp because it's easier and more supportive than anything else I know. 18:52:42 You can change your code on the fly, whcih I do all the time in web servers I run. 18:53:44 And, no, you usually can't ride the bleeding edge of cranking every cycle out of the current hardware, but you can run as fast on today's hardware as c++ ran 2 years ago 18:54:51 <_travis_> argoneus: write a simple factorial function in lisp, then write one in c++, then run factorial and pass it 1000. let me know which one gives you the answer quicker. 18:55:15 _travis_: it depends on the algo 18:55:21 There are C bignum libraries. It just happens to be build in to lisp 18:55:25 <_travis_> argoneus: try it. let me know how it goes. 18:55:31 what I mean is 18:55:36 C++/C is closer to the hardware than Lisp 18:55:42 so they must be faster 18:55:43 logically 18:55:49 Well~ 18:55:51 <_travis_> ... 18:55:55 Indeed. I consider C to be a nice portable assembler. Lisp is a high-level language 18:56:00 LISP programs are elegant  LISP is beautiful!  and this is enough ^__^ 18:56:02 I mean 18:56:06 billstclair: and anything that's not fast enough can be coded in C and accessed under CFFI 18:56:10 if you want to argue that Lisp is faster than C/C++ 18:56:10 yep 18:56:14 then be my guest but that was not the point 18:56:42 I was only asking what is Lisp for in the real industry 18:56:49 It's actually possible to write lots of stuff in JavaScript these days. Hardware is that fast. 18:57:01 <_travis_> 'real' industry 18:57:08 like 18:57:10 <_travis_> as opposed to those 'fake' industries 18:57:10 It's not faster, but about C being closer to hardware is arguable 18:57:11 when you get paid for your programs 18:57:15 i don't know how you'd compare lisp and c++ speeds fairly 18:57:16 unlike just writing them for fun 18:57:24 <_travis_> research is a real industry. it's used there. 18:57:27 <_travis_> like many other programs. 18:57:39 <_travis_> if you search job sites, there are people looking for lips/scheme/etc programmers 18:57:40 so Lisp is mainly used scientifically? 18:57:43 <|3b|> argoneus: nobody uses it in industry, so i guess you'll have to go troll some other language :( 18:57:46 <_travis_> big data uses lots of lisp, as well as R 18:57:49 argoneus: Go away. 18:57:49 http://paulgraham.com/apps.html 18:57:57 <_travis_> yeah, argoneus is trolling i suppose 18:58:02 "...Please don't assume Lisp is only useful for Animation and Graphics, AI, Bioinformatics, B2B and E-Commerce, Data Mining, EDA/Semiconductor applications, Expert Systems, Finance, Intelligent Agents, Knowledge Management, Mechanical CAD, Modeling and Simulation, Natural Language, Optimization, Research, Risk Analysis, Scheduling, Telecom, and Web Authoring just because these are the only things they happened to list." 18:58:02 - Kent M. Pitman 18:58:05 Yeah I'm trolling so hard by asking what is Lisp for 18:58:07 argoneus: 1) python is not simpler than lips, it just has better marketing that has convinced you otherwise. 2) Lisp was used in video games on the playstation i think. 3) Just because a language is closer to the hardware doesn't make it automatically faster. 18:58:10 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 18:58:13 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*argoneus@unaffiliated/argoneus 18:58:14 Well, I've been paid for writing lisp for 16 of the last 28 years 18:58:14 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 18:58:15 <_travis_> rofls 18:58:16 is it more fair to make a separate binary executable with lisp bundled in 18:59:05 Look up an airline fare on Google. Lisp. 18:59:10 <_travis_> billstclair: out of curiosity do you work as a consultant or do you have a full time gig working with a specific company on specific projects? 18:59:26 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:59:26 I have a salaried position working for a company that contracts out my time 18:59:32 <_travis_> understodo. 18:59:40 book a flight at http://capeair.com/. Lisp. 18:59:43 Clozure Associates, to be precise. 19:00:07 So my case isn't really fair, working for one of the lisp vendors 19:00:22 money is getting made. I think that's fair. 19:00:34 <_travis_> billitch: nice :) 19:00:42 yes, it is. We've made salary every month since September of 2006 19:00:53 And before, but I wasn't working there then 19:01:27 argoneus: people may assume you are trolling because the topic has been discussed in the past. it gets a bit tiresome to hear the same questions :) 19:01:47 um I was playing around with logging libs yesterday, but I realized I really wanted to be able to save/load stuff (persistence through logging? idk the term for it, or if it's possible) so I could more easily recreate that environment 19:01:51 argoneus: and a lisp was indeed used for building jack and dexter on the ps2. however it wasn't common lisp 19:02:10 wasn't it used for crash bandycoot or something 19:02:10 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 19:02:14 does any lib support that? 19:02:15 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-178-002-093-073.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:21 logging library* 19:02:39 punee: yeah, Crash Bandicoot was the first game that used GOAL, IIRC. 19:02:48 kanedank: I think you want a journaling system 19:02:50 One of Coral's early projects was lisp in a semi-trailer sized desalination plant for island water making 19:03:03 Naughty Dog (the guys behind jak & dexter) still showed Lisp on their presentation slides at this GDC 19:03:04 kanedank: I've done something similar: create a DSL and prefix log messages. scrape the logs and run them through an evaluator. 19:03:17 dlowe: I've heard of journaling filesystems, but I don't know what you mean by that 19:03:48 benny: They eventually left Sony(?) after trying unsuccessfully to port all their GOAL niceness to C(++?), no? 19:03:50 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:03:50 <|3b|> kanedank: same meaning, store all operations somewhere so you can repeat them later 19:04:03 hey, this might be an awkward question to ask but 19:04:10 which editor should I use for lisp... 19:04:14 kanedank: e.g. (logmsg "### (create-record "foo" 123)"), then use awk to cut out the sexps and parse them. 19:04:15 *sellout* achieves a high question-mark:sentence ratio. 19:04:16 <|3b|> foeniks: emacs with slime 19:04:36 I am a vim guy in general and never used emacs 19:04:37 foeniks: or vim with slimv 19:04:38 sellout: Naughty Dog is still owned by Sony and Cowboy (that's the programmer) still uses Lisp (at least for the slides at GDC) 19:04:40 -!- psykotron [~user@2607:f298:2:120::69c:4502] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:05 um... so no default libs support journaling like that? 19:05:11 default logging libs* 19:05:19 <|3b|> foeniks: there are attempts to match slime for vim, so if you are allergic to emacs you can try one of them 19:05:22 *foreignFunction* uses emacs for lisps and vim for other thingys 19:05:30 I might become polytheistic 19:05:36 thats not the issue 19:05:47 I feel like vim is not indentin properly 19:05:49 kanedank: used something like that from a C++ app to log quotes and trades in a market data app - could scrape the log and do analysis in Lisp against output from the C++ app. 19:06:01 foeniks: i switched from vim to emacs because of clojuer and common lisp. Not regretting it. 19:06:16 benny: Ah, I don't know who Cowboy is, but the creator of GOAL quit and started a new game company. 19:07:07 foeniks: I even quit pentadactyl in favor of conkeror :) 19:07:28 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.107.251] has joined #lisp 19:07:42 <|3b|> foenikss slime is the CL ide that gets the most community support, vim apparently isn't as programmable in some way that tends to interfere with attempts to make a vim version 19:08:03 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@200.48.22.49] has quit [Quit: se pira] 19:08:14 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@200.48.22.49] has joined #lisp 19:08:38 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@200.48.22.49] has left #lisp 19:08:39 sellout: I don't think Andy Gavin has created a new game since leaving ND, but Jason Rubin (the other co-founder from Naughty Dog) is now president of THQ 19:08:51 blackwolf: I'm kind of stupid and don't understand how that applies to my situation 19:08:53 <|3b|> at one point there was also a plugin for eclipse, but i think that hasn't been updated in a long time 19:10:48 hmm... is there something that does this in native cl?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Prevalence 19:11:14 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.134.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:11:16 <|3b|> minion: tell kanedank about cl-prevalence 19:11:17 kanedank: please look at cl-prevalence: cl-prevalence is an implementation in Common Lisp of the Object Prevalence concept using both XML and s-expression based serialization. http://www.cliki.net/cl-prevalence 19:11:33 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:36 *|3b|* has no idea how well it works or if it is even finished though 19:11:54 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:36 <|3b|> i think there are a few other in-memory DBs for lisp as well, or things that store data to external DBs 19:12:51 about slime, is there any way to make it highlight lisps depending on the context, not "keywords"? 19:12:51 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:08 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:15 |3b|: thank you! that seems to be exactly what I've been looking for 19:16:20 <|3b|> see also http://www.cliki.net/ObjectStore for some other options 19:16:55 <_travis_> how good is minion? 19:17:01 ~like, to highlight first word in parentheses except for special cases like if list is quoted or is macrolambda etc. 19:18:56 foreignFunction: no. highlighting is left to emacs font-lock. indentation is smarter, though. 19:19:07 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-178-002-093-073.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:19:32 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 19:20:42 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.84.4] has joined #lisp 19:22:24 also, is there an easier way to link to libs installed through quicklisp? like be able to have folders called "alexandria" that are symlinks to the most recent version, and just a folder that contains all installed versions of libraries? 19:28:15 kanedank: there is a kind of pseudo-symlink system in effect 19:28:57 kanedank: in a particular dist's subdirectory, ./installed/systems/alexandria.txt points to the alexandria system file in ./software/alexandria-xyz-24.3/... 19:29:20 -!- DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@184.99.23.182] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:29:24 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:29:39 i'd like to build a wrapper around an object (i don't know the class of the object beforehand). each method call which is called with the given object (except for a select previously known few) should dispatch on the object it wraps around. any ideas on how to implement this? 19:30:50 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:31:13 madnificent: almost impossible with CLOS. 19:31:26 madnificent: in CLOS, methods are not attached to objects, but to generic functions. 19:31:31 well, you can do it by writing methods. 19:31:37 (defmethod foo ((wrapper wrapper)) (foo (wrapped-object wrapper))) 19:31:43 madnificent: so you would have to add a method to all generic functions. 19:32:17 Xach: i would need to know the class of the object i'm wrapping around early enough, or all methods which may be called... not the end of the world, but very dirty (code-wise) nonetheless 19:32:24 pjb: that's sad, it seemed like a common idiom to me. 19:32:41 any way around this, another construction which gives me about the same way of working with things? 19:32:48 madnificent: You don't need to know the class of the object at all, but you would have to know the methods. 19:33:24 Xach: yes, and in order to find the methods, i'd need to know the class... or create a method for each, but that seems to be quite dirty also 19:33:41 No, not the class, the generic functions. 19:33:43 madnificent: You don't need a class to find methods. 19:33:55 You can also specialize generic functions on a given object. 19:34:06 But if you know an object, you know its class (class-of object) 19:34:10 Xach: no, but i would to find the applicable methods, in the sense that it would otherwise create a real mess of new methods :/ 19:34:30 madnificent: I don't get it. Are you talking about 1,000 generic functions? 19:34:56 Xach: i don't know them up front, so my best guess would be to do it for all generic functions... that's not nice 19:35:13 Oh, did someone else write the code? 19:36:08 hey, I'm trying to follow this to setup my slime to have clhs support built in, but I keep getting stuck http://gbbopen.org/hypertutorial/index.html 19:36:15 i'm wrapping around an object which may be extended for their purposes, but the wrapper should be used and passed around so the whole shabang keeps working... either that, or i'll wok around it some other way 19:36:16 madnificent: You could define a method on NO-APPLICABLE-METHOD. 19:36:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:36:31 OR, in implementation specific ways, you could handler-bind type-error and check when it's signaled from a no-applicable-method method, and do something if it's one of the objects you're concerned with. 19:36:57 The implementation specific part being scanning the backtrace. 19:36:57 sellout: that's coming close :) 19:37:06 <|3b|> sellout: not portably, unless you limit it to specific GFs 19:37:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:37:30 It's easier to define a method on no-applicable-method for each generic function, because you can scan all the accessible symbols and see if they're bound to a generic function. 19:37:35 kanedank: i've used (ql:quickload "clhs") followed by (clhs:print-emacs-setup-form) with some success 19:37:40 <|3b|> (or user defined GF classes) 19:37:43 Of course, if somebody defines a generic function after you've scanned them, you're screwed. 19:37:50 this is what I have right now: https://gist.github.com/3229983 and my CLHS folder has this inside (it was labeled HyperSpec inside of the folder with legalese): 19:37:50  CLHS ls 19:37:50 Body Data Front Graphics Issues 19:37:53 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-041-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:29 Xach: hahaha, I guess quicklisp does do everything! 19:38:35 yes, yes it does 19:38:36 madnificent: well, it's a common idiom in Smalltalk and Objective-C, there are even methods to forward messages automatically in the Object or NSObject classes. 19:38:38 But not in CLOS. 19:38:44 |3b|: If he has the MOP (portable enough, IMO), he can define one on STANDARD-GENERIC-FUNCTION. 19:38:54 You can chalk it as one inconvenient of CLOS. 19:39:09 Or even GENERIC-FUNCTION, for that matter. 19:39:19 <|3b|> sellout: are you sure it is conformant to specialize a standard method on only standard classes? 19:39:32 *|3b|* isn't sure if MOP relaxes that or not 19:39:35 In a message-passing system, it's fairly straightforward to say "Pass this message to some other place". CLOS is not a message-passing system. 19:39:56 pjb: i don't find it that odd that it's not possible in clos, however i wonder if they figured out a way to work around this case nicely. my best bet right now is to define the outside interface for the wrapper object and work with the annoyance from there on. 19:40:21 madnificent: That said, unless your library is pathologic, it should be easy enough to do a static analysis, and to find all the generic functions used, to add a no-applicable-method on all of them (at least on the generic functions not defined in CL). 19:40:55 madnificent: usually, people complain that CL is too dynamic. Here you're complaining it's too static. 19:41:41 pjb: i don't like code i'll have to worry about, this seems to be something i'll have to wory about. and about the dynamicity, i guess it grows on you :) 19:42:02 That said, there may be implementation specific ways to hook into no-applicable-method so that you can do what you want. 19:42:30 Ie. defining no-applicable-method on T, is non-conforming, but it may work in your implementation. 19:42:34 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:42:52 But also, mind the other libraries who may define methods on no-applicable-method ;-) 19:43:31 yeah, it's messy. i'm still thinking about a way on how to get it clean. so far, no luck 19:43:41 madnificent: At some point, for some forgotten project, I defined a method on no-applicable-method that just called a single-dispatchy method-missing function : (defgeneric method-missing (gf argument &rest args) ), then you could define method-missing for whatever classes you wanted. 19:43:50 Xach: is there a way to view clhs within emacs? 19:44:04 The first thing that's messy here, is that the standard no-applicable-method signals a type-error instead of something more specific. 19:44:09 But, as |3b| said, I'm not sure that what I wrote is strictly conformant, but it worked for me. 19:44:09 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 19:44:14 kanedank: you could use an emacs-based browser. i don't know which one is nicest. 19:44:19 sellout: that seems to be a more-or-less sensible default 19:44:27 kanedank: w3m isn't bad 19:44:32 <|3b|> sellout: also has the disadvantage of not working if someone else tries to do the same thing in the same image 19:44:54 Mezon_ [32645a85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.100.90.133] has joined #lisp 19:45:00 |3b|: Indeed. Better for an app than a library. But if the method-missing was implemented as a library, then it should mix nicely :) 19:45:18 (with multiple users of the method-missing library) 19:45:28 There, you have a mission. 19:45:31 hey everyone :P 19:45:55 Perhaps something for bountyoss? 19:45:55 *madnificent* has access to the root of the class hierarchy of the object he's wrapping around. wonders if that could help him. 19:46:00 just a quick question, is the whole PCL book at the top-level? D: 19:46:11 Mezon_: What do you mean? 19:46:35 <|3b|> madnificent: probably reasonable to have a purely 'interface' class at the top, and derive the proxy from that 19:46:38 Mezon_: You mean, do all the examples use the REPL? I don't think so. 19:46:39 well, i think it can help me. i can add "annotators" to the whole thing and perhaps let them define on which generic functions they should be called, or something of the likes. 19:46:44 also, when I run M-. to try and follow things with slime, it doesn't seem like I have the sbcl source auto installed on my fedora system (I think I was used to debian doing that?) 19:47:13 kanedank: If you get the source and put it somewhere, you can use (sb-ext:set-sbcl-source-location "/path/to/source/of/sbcl/") 19:47:35 |3b|: that, again, assumes i know which generic functions will be called with the object... so then i might as well implement all those... 19:48:30 <|3b|> madnificent: i guess if someone is defining methods on subclasses, that makes things more complicated 19:48:44 sellout: well I just started reading it and so far everything's been done at that SLIME command-line-like interface within the emacs editor 19:49:06 Mezon_: Yeah, definitely that's the way to illustrate simple things. 19:49:14 <|3b|> though i guess you could try to convince them to define the methods in some specific way (using a macro, or special method combination, or specific GF class) 19:49:14 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49:15 Mezon_: REPL, if you want to use the jargon :) 19:49:25 ok 19:49:33 you guys don't use that right? 19:49:36 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:05 Mezon_: I use the REPL all the time. 19:50:18 I think it is fairly typical when working with Common Lisp. 19:50:21 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:50:35 <|3b|> Mezon_: CL development is frequently done interactively, if not directly at the REPL (there are keyboard shortcuts to evaluate things directly from files for example) 19:50:36 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:50:41 Mezon_: Yeah, we do. Although, usually we end up writing stuff in files and sending it to the REPL, but you still have that interface going. 19:50:50 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 19:50:50 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:51:01 oh ok 19:51:39 <|3b|> a source file in CL works more or less like the REPL anyway, it reads a form, evaluates (or compiles) it, then goes on to the next form in the file 19:52:29 -!- blbef [~chatzilla@089144206153.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:52:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:52:59 Xach: thank you! 19:53:13 fevon [~fevon@dslb-188-099-252-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:29 Mezon_: i most often develop in the REPL, well i toy with things in the repl. i write functions eihter in the repl or in a file (most often a file), unless i'm toying and thinkering. 19:53:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:54:17 Mezon_: it's amazing how much you start to use the REPL once you get to know it. but obviously, code that needs to persist, is written in files 8) 19:54:28 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:54:40 madnificent: "in a file" do you mean with the emacs editor or just any editor and then you open it with REPL? 19:54:48 *Xach* almost never writes defuns in repl, always sticks it in a scratch.lisp or similar 19:55:25 oh ok im just new to the writing programs in REPL thing so I should get used to it :p 19:56:56 you don't really need to use the repl _itself_ .. any text file is a scratchpad/blackboard for code you can run 19:57:06 francogrex [~user@109.130.140.161] has joined #lisp 19:57:25 Mezon_: sligtly different even. lisp has ASDF, which offers you a building block for loading a bunch of files in the right order and figuring out where they are. i write code which needs to persist in files (with a .lisp extension) and i edit that in emacs. then i load the project (currently through quicklisp) which ensures all necessary projects for my project and the code of the project itself are loaded/downloaded in t 19:57:25 order. i do the loading of the project from the repl 19:58:11 i have a whole directory of scratch files on a per-subject basis, often with blocks for loading 19:58:13 minion: any messages for me? 19:58:14 francogrex: watch out, you'll make krystof angry 19:58:18 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-041-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:58:22 *oGMo* doesn't like having to navigate history or retype 19:58:46 oh ok 20:00:18 I like very much the fact that you can just compile code from a buffer in emacs (C-c C-c) and see the changes in a running program right away 20:01:01 Does http://paste.lisp.org/+2SXS mean that I have a heap of ~4GB and I used it all? 20:02:48 LiamH: i think this suits better to #sbcl channel 20:03:03 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 20:03:05 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:04:48 is there an easy way to do lazy file processing in lisp? 20:06:00 kanedank: lazy file processing being what exactly? 20:08:36 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-41.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:51 -!- eusebio [Qtr@94.191.174.15.bredband.tre.se] has left #lisp 20:10:14 asvil [~asvil@178.120.50.50] has joined #lisp 20:12:02 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:12:02 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.140.161] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:42 -!- pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:57 pnpuff [~user@host78-253-dynamic.23-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:12:57 -!- pnpuff [~user@host78-253-dynamic.23-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 20:12:57 pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:13:20 -!- pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:30 pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:17:03 muchequta [~llinya_@186-24-16-1.genericrev.telcel.net.ve] has joined #lisp 20:17:07 -!- sellout [~Adium@65.101.242.214] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:18:36 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 20:18:59 hey is there a built in way of saying "hey, I screwed up my formatting, use whatever major mode to reformat it"? 20:19:01 hola 20:20:09 <|3b|> kanedank: you can reindent (with for example C-M-q), but i don't think it will add/remove newlines for you 20:20:16 rpg [~rpg@173-8-98-161-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:27 -!- muchequta [~llinya_@186-24-16-1.genericrev.telcel.net.ve] has left #lisp 20:21:02 blbef [~chatzilla@089144206153.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:33 -!- blbef [~chatzilla@089144206153.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:26:43 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:27 You can CL:READ the file and rewrite it with PPRINT. 20:28:37 -!- fevon [~fevon@dslb-188-099-252-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:29:00 *|3b|* wonders how often that would actually make the file nicer 20:31:27 It removes comments and #+/#- : nicer in my book! :-) 20:32:20 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.32.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:32:25 <|3b|> PPRINT doesn't have a smart enough line break algorithm though, too easy to get it dumping a long list 1 word per line on the right edge 20:33:06 -!- jewel_ [~jewel@196-210-172-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:34:02 <|3b|> and losing details intended for human readers like constants in hex, or the actual intended value for FP constants would be annoying 20:35:11 LiamH: you might be using less than that; the GC is mostly copying (large vectors aren't moved and values in pinned pages are supposed live). 20:35:26 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-141-135.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:36:58 PuercoPop420 [~PuercoPop@200.48.22.49] has joined #lisp 20:37:21 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 20:37:41 pkhuong: OK thanks. Is there a way to identify what objects are taking up the memory? I have a few big arrays, I know that, but I calculate they should be only about 250MB each; I'm not sure how I get up to whatever I'm actually using. 20:38:23 LiamH: ROOM, and the hungarians have a couple tools based on map-allocated-objects. 20:39:31 *LiamH* goggles "hungarians lisp" and comes up with Gábor Melis 20:39:40 googles 20:39:47 frito [~keithmant@cpc16-sotn8-2-0-cust290.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:41:46 pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:41:53 BountyX [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:48 -!- BountyX [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:42:48 -!- pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:43:00 pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:34 -!- frito [~keithmant@cpc16-sotn8-2-0-cust290.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:45:43 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:47:56 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85680f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:53:30 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.156.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:53:34 eni [~eni@95-178-196-129.dsl.optinet.hr] has joined #lisp 20:54:24 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:36 -!- TDT [~user@bouncer.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:56:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:58:39 -!- pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:10 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@201.7.186.67] has joined #lisp 21:00:48 LiamH: dwim.mu 21:00:51 *dwim.hu even 21:01:56 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85680f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:37 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:01 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 21:04:06 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-239-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:04:19 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@c-98-244-123-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:04:27 pkhuong: Thanks. Looks like lots of sw there. 21:06:11 -!- rpg [~rpg@173-8-98-161-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: rpg] 21:06:19 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.107.251] has quit [Quit: Out of this 3D] 21:06:23 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.50.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:07:12 rpg [~rpg@173-8-98-161-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:25 -!- rpg [~rpg@173-8-98-161-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:08:33 yeah, and it's all interdependent and incompatible with the upstream projects 21:11:13 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.5.223.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:11:18 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85680f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:17 fsmunoz [user@nat/ibm/x-dfjzcqcvkzqilqvz] has joined #lisp 21:15:18 asvil [~asvil@37.214.66.47] has joined #lisp 21:16:34 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 21:18:11 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:18:19 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:21 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 21:21:32 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:21:52 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 21:25:28 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:30:21 hey guys, say if I am using REPL and I just made a function and I want to save that then I know I have to do C-x C-f and then I enter the name of the file but once I do that it just gives me an empty space to write and stuff 21:30:32 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-152-12.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:30:53 like how do I transfer my function and previous commands from the REPL to that file and continue working in that file? 21:31:02 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:31:16 <|3b|> then you can copy the function from repl to the file with normal editor commands 21:31:31 *|3b|* usually just works in the files rather than in the repl 21:31:33 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:52 Mezon_: or you can be farsighted and use ibcl. 21:32:06 Mezon_: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/ibcl/index.html 21:32:36 -!- eni [~eni@95-178-196-129.dsl.optinet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:33:03 Mezon_: but usually what one does, is to edit a .lisp buffer in emacs, and type C-x C-e to evaluate the forms from there. (or C-c C-l to load the whole file). 21:33:42 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:33:56 Mezon_: you can also use CL:DRIBBLE to save automatically all your REPL interactions in a file, so that you can copy-and-paste later. 21:34:24 Mezon_: here is what I use from my rc files: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124944 21:34:27 oh so can I enter REPL commands from a new file I made? 21:34:35 Yes. With C-x C-e 21:34:45 And you can even get the results inserted in the buffer with C-u C-x C-e 21:36:00 <|3b|> there are a bunch of key shortcuts for interacting with code in the files, C-c C-k to compile&load entire file, C-c C-c to compile&load a single form, C-M-x to evaluate a single form, C-x C-e to evaluate previous form, etc 21:38:14 francogrex [~user@109.130.140.161] has joined #lisp 21:39:42 <|3b|> as well as some other useful commands that don't evaluate the code directly, but default to the form at the cursor, like C-c I which opens the slime inspector with results of evaluating something 21:40:52 does anyone know where is this new aarmcl for kernel version 6 ? 21:40:55 ok wait sorry but I kinda understand, so right now i'm in the CL-USER> interface and I just entered a function before and now I want to save it 21:41:07 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.148.205.238] has joined #lisp 21:41:19 so i'd do C-x, C-f to make a new file right? 21:41:28 Mezon_: Yep. 21:41:51 now im in this blank page 21:42:00 how do I save my previous code into there? 21:42:10 and then run it like with a REPL interface 21:42:29 -!- fsmunoz [user@nat/ibm/x-dfjzcqcvkzqilqvz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:42:42 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.160.221.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:42:48 Mezon_: Well, unless you've already been dribbling, the easiest way is to probaby press up until you see your definition, then copy and paste from the repl. 21:43:33 Mezon_: C-x 2 C-x b *slime-repl TAB RET 21:43:39 Then save your file (C-x C-s) and then load the file (C-c C-k) 21:44:55 fsmunoz [user@nat/ibm/x-bpujivivhulgsdfn] has joined #lisp 21:46:54 sellout: it says C-c C-k is undefined 21:47:25 pjb: I just tried that but it didnt work when I pressed tab 21:47:40 Mezon_: you didn't run M-x slime RET ? 21:48:07 i did that at the very beginning 21:48:11 and then typed in a function 21:48:18 Mezon_: Did you quit slime? 21:48:21 and then did c-x c-s 21:48:22 Well, anyway, switch to your slime repl buffer. 21:48:30 yes ok 21:48:43 Or if you saved it, to the file where you saved it. 21:48:51 sellout: I just did and re-typed the function in the slime repl buffer 21:50:25 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 21:50:33 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:50:53 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:09 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 21:52:42 mast` [~alex@bas1-montreal07-1279369893.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:52:42 -!- mast` [~alex@bas1-montreal07-1279369893.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Changing host] 21:52:42 mast` [~alex@unaffiliated/mast/x-9924406] has joined #lisp 21:53:16 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:53:24 p_l|home [~p_l@2a01:348:195:1:4c53:64a2:e520:2eb5] has joined #lisp 21:56:09 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.140.161] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:58:50 mathrick_ [~mathrick@94.144.63.80] has joined #lisp 21:59:22 atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:33 whats the command to run code? 21:59:42 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:00:08 Mezon_: please elaborate your question 22:00:19 oh ok :p 22:01:00 So I managed to save my function from the slime repl buffer and then I did C-c C-k and it said my work compiled 22:01:13 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:01:14 how can I like run that program 22:01:19 kanru [~kanru@199.195.142.182] has joined #lisp 22:01:22 in the repl (function-name) 22:01:46 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:02:00 there are also some scripts which help you write scripts and run them from the commandline, if that's what you're after (i generally just stay in the repl) 22:02:08 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.142] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 22:02:21 rpg [~rpg@mail.shirtikvah.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:22 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:02:34 ok so I restarted emacs 22:02:46 and so how can I run my function from that file I saved it in 22:02:53 im in the slime buffer 22:03:45 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: pa pa] 22:04:10 Mezon_: you can compile the file using C-c C-k 22:04:30 and then you can run it in the repl by calling the function name. what is the name of your function and does it get any arguments? 22:04:38 Or compile (defun ...) at cursor by C-M-x 22:04:49 (defun hello-world () (format t "hello, world")) 22:04:53 :D 22:05:08 -!- kwmiebach [kwmiebach@37-188-126-213.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:14 -!- mast` [~alex@unaffiliated/mast/x-9924406] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:05:23 so wait how do I open a file from the REPL? 22:05:30 kwmiebach [kwmiebach@37-188-126-213.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:05:45 C-x C-f path/to/file 22:06:09 Mezon_: open a file from the REPL: (open "file") 22:06:19 Or did you mean something else? 22:07:19 pnpuff` [~user@host191-250-dynamic.23-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:07:24 nah thats what I wanted thanks 22:07:30 so now I have that file opened 22:07:40 and how can I call that function in the REPL 22:08:15 like I have (defun hello-world () (format t "hello, world")) in my hello_world.lisp file 22:08:20 just that 22:08:44 and I want to do (hello-world) and see the output from the REPL 22:09:02 (load "/path/to/file") (hello-world) 22:09:07 -!- fsmunoz [user@nat/ibm/x-bpujivivhulgsdfn] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:22 Mezon_: do you want to load file from repl directly, or load it by emacs? 22:09:52 foreignFunction: wait what's the difference between those? 22:09:59 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:10 Mezon_: for first case you don't need emacs running 22:10:31 oh I have emacs running 22:10:36 so I want to do it from emacs 22:11:01 -!- pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:11:20 Mezon_: ahha. Then first C-x C-f path/to/file to open file in editor 22:12:02 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:12:50 Mezon_: then plase cursor at where your (defun ...) is and do C-M-x 22:12:50 foreignFunction: nono I mean like I want to run my function from the file and see the output, sorry if I'm not specific enough :( 22:13:34 Vivitron: hey, I tried that and I got "C" is not a defined logical host 22:13:39 Mezon_: then in repl type (name-of-your-function) 22:14:37 oh wait nvm that did work 22:14:54 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:15:01 so to load a specific function I would do (load "path to file") and then enter the function name 22:15:17 what would I have to do so I could load an entire program 22:15:21 Mezon_: if i were you, i'd do C-x C-f /path/to/file.lisp C-c C-k C-x C-b *slime-repl* (hello-world) 22:15:29 unless you created a package, you might need to prefix then 22:16:00 Mezon_: for /path/to/file.lisp and *slime-repl* you have tab-completion 22:16:05 Mezon_: (load ...) is for loading files directly to repl. You don't need emacs for that 22:16:23 oh -.- 22:16:31 so I can just do that open thing 22:16:35 Mezon_: you can also load through (load ...) etc, but let's just say that it's less developer-friendly. so first learn the 'normal' way, then learn how you can do funky stuff. 22:17:03 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 22:17:53 so say if I am in the slime-repl ccl buffer 22:17:54 Mezon_: the load call is redundant if you've done C-c C-k or similar in the file in emacs 22:18:02 ok 22:18:05 so I can just do that 22:18:10 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-138-142-168.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:43 omg I got it to work :'D 22:18:49 Mezon_: congrats! 22:18:57 clhs load 22:18:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_load.htm 22:19:00 Mezon_: ^ 22:19:27 But as I told you above, C-c C-l in the .lisp buffer to load it in the REPL. 22:19:29 Joreji [~thomas@83-029.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 22:22:23 woah I have 4 different files ( LISP# file, LISP file, LISP~ file, and a WX64FSL File) 22:22:29 do I need all of those? 22:22:31 -!- argoneus [~argoneus@unaffiliated/argoneus] has left #lisp 22:22:42 for the 1 program I saved 22:23:18 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:23:23 Mezon_: it's emacs autosave files 22:23:30 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:23:30 oh alright 22:23:43 at least first three 22:25:19 Mezon_: why is it named LISP? 22:25:38 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:38 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:25:38 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 22:25:39 it should be hw.lisp, hw.lisp~, hw.lisp# and hw.wx64fsl 22:26:07 Mezon_: also, you should put in your ~/.bashrc : alias ls='LC_COLLATE="C" /bin/ls -aBCFN' 22:26:13 so that ls doesn't show you backup files. 22:26:36 wait what? what's that? 22:27:10 pjb: i think he has that windows thing 22:27:56 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:28:02 hw.lisp would be your source, any file whose last character in the name is ~ is considered a backup file. The files with # or .# are lock files managed by emacs; wx64fsl is the binary file generated by the compilation (each implementation has a different name for binaries, since they're not compatible with each other). 22:31:26 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 22:33:11 -!- rpg [~rpg@mail.shirtikvah.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:33:33 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@201.7.186.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:49 Mezon_: instead of using whatever you use to get the list of files, use (directory "*.lisp") in your REPL. 22:35:24 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 22:35:31 Also, have a look at (ls) in https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/common-lisp/interactive/browser.lisp#line502 22:35:37 francogrex [~user@109.130.140.161] has joined #lisp 22:39:00 pjb: wooow, is that thing available on quicklisp? 22:39:48 -!- asvil [~asvil@37.214.66.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:39:56 pjb: what does that program do? 22:40:30 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:40:55 foreignFunction: yes. (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp) (use-package :com.informatimago.common-lisp.interactive.interactive) 22:41:48 oh I have to get going I will be back soon :P 22:41:53 and thanks everyone for your help 22:41:58 Mezon_: it's lispy equivalent to DOS's "dir" and UNIX's "ls". 22:42:00 Mezon_: Well, it's a library, there are a lot of utility functions. Here, (ls) is like ls(1), but in lisp. (ls "*.lisp") (ls :-l) 22:42:20 cl-fad makes me happy enough 22:42:21 -!- Mezon_ [32645a85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.100.90.133] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:42:24 Mezon_: mostly to "ls" of course 22:42:24 There's also a (browse) command to walk the directories. 22:42:41 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 22:42:57 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:05 pjb: you actually made the switch to agpl v3? 22:43:12 Yes, I did. 22:43:21 congrats, i guess 22:43:48 You can see the effect of AGPL3 eg. on: http://want.ogamita.org/ 22:44:31 pjb: i'm not going in this argumentation with you. you have more time and i prefer to write working things which give people freedom :P ;) 22:44:58 You give developers freedom, I give users freedom. 22:45:09 pjb: no, you don't 22:45:15 you force freedom on them 22:45:23 and with force, freedom seems relative 22:45:26 You can't force freedom :-) 22:45:34 pjb: my point exactly, so don't. 22:45:47 Well, you can force freedom by putting people out of jail. 22:46:07 So I guess, if you start from the state "everybody's in jail", you can force freedom. 22:46:24 _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:35 Which should show you how distorted your thinking about freedom is. 22:47:36 pjb: you are completely right. BSD/MIT forces much more than AGPL does, how could i have been so wrong. now i fully understand why AGPL must be so long and complex, it's because it was to be simple and MIT was to be hard. 22:47:48 ahh never mind 22:47:49 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@75-142-48-121.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:48:35 madnificent: try to get out of jail, you'll see how complex the administrative process is. 22:49:15 It's obvious that in an ideal world, there wouldn't even be a need for those "licenses". 22:49:15 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:21 pjb: i live in a state without jails, i'm free already. and i don't need police to force freedom upon me 22:49:33 You're lucky. What state is it? 22:49:36 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:04 MIT! 22:50:43 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:51:17 MIT is not a state, it's in Massachusetts and there are 18 prisons there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Massachusetts_state_correctional_facilities 22:51:44 -!- younder [~john@69.248.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:28 AGPL needs to be long and verbose because it needs to specify restrictions, instead of waiving defaults 22:53:37 (in terms of copyright law) 22:54:09 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:54:42 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-162-50-137.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:54:50 How many programs and/or computer systems do you use everyday? For how many of them do you have the sources? (not even asking a free license). 22:55:27 *|3b|* points at the topic 22:56:02 <|3b|> even if the L in AGPL is 'Lisp', it doesn't sounds like a CL :p 22:56:05 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 22:57:27 |3b|: have a look at http://want.ogamita.org/ ; it's written in CL so it should be on-topic ;-) 22:58:30 *|3b|* looked at it, but still has nothing on-topic to contribute 22:59:18 |3b|: well, AGPL3 could help promote lisp, if more lispers would run web sites under the AGPL3 license. 23:00:04 you know, you aren't *required* to use the AGPL3 license in order to have a link to the source-code on your website. 23:00:08 <|3b|> and words would help promote lisp, if more lispers would run web servers and put something about lisp on them 23:00:30 True. True. 23:00:42 <|3b|> both cases sort of assume the web site is interesting enough for someone to care though 23:00:53 on the off-chance of fueling the argument. a logo stating that a site was made with lisp would likely have more influence. all tools are readily available. and even things that aren't available for what you're doing specifically (like an ad-hoc scaffolding system) are written in just a few loc. 23:01:36 |3b|: just enough so when people ask "where is lisp used", you could point at some websites 23:01:46 *|3b|* notes that AGPL3 sites don't promote the tools used to generate them to me though 23:01:49 *pjb* just ran ccl (trunk) on Rapsberry Pi (qemu). 23:02:00 ozialien [~ozi@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:19 |3b|: i follow you on that, if i see it, i want to ensure i use nothing based on it 23:02:34 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:02:47 |3b|: but that doesn't drop out that a nice logo could be of some help 23:02:56 I personally think it's kind of amusing when people love GPL but hate AGPL. But that's just me. 23:02:57 True, I should add logos. It's not a reflex, since w3m, etc, but right. 23:03:18 *|3b|* feels the same about GPL 23:03:33 |3b|: Yes, that's an understandable position. 23:03:34 foom: it's a very similar mess 23:05:28 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:07:07 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:09:18 -!- mathrick_ is now known as mathrick 23:09:54 as someone who a year ago tried a bit regarding the stuff that makes "technology stars", aka shiny startups... AGPL3 code I encountered was either: a) *rare* ideology-backed decision, rarely stuff that was of significant use b) part of bait'n'switch scheme to force people to buy commercial license 23:10:08 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 23:10:21 you want people to get more interested with lisp? Make something cool, share it with minimal fuss 23:13:25 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@75-142-48-121.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:21:00 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-143-213.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:23:41 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:26:39 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:32 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:16 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-151-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:33:42 -!- nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@123.201.229.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:36:34 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:38:07 -!- PuercoPop420 [~PuercoPop@200.48.22.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:40:21 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:43:40 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 23:45:03 I see pjb mentioned bountyoss.com , as a student with a need for cash, a desire to build cool open source software, and the option to do a course project for the end of my last school year(to be graded by a committee and all that jazz), this seems like it might be a good opportunity, would the lisp community be willing to sponsor such a project? 23:47:13 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:47:17 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:59 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:50:13 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 23:51:32 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 23:51:37 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Client Quit] 23:51:51 sabalaba [~Adium@2602:306:cfc8:8c30:a058:dbf1:e0e5:f146] has joined #lisp 23:51:55 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@2602:306:cfc8:8c30:a058:dbf1:e0e5:f146] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:52:18 sabalaba [~Adium@2602:306:cfc8:8c30:a058:dbf1:e0e5:f146] has joined #lisp 23:56:42 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@2602:306:cfc8:8c30:a058:dbf1:e0e5:f146] has left #lisp 23:57:35 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood]