00:02:39 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-98.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:36 clarke2 [~clarke4@109.78.96.113] has joined #lisp 00:05:42 -!- ngz [~user@245.12.99.84.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:07:32 -!- clarke2 [~clarke4@109.78.96.113] has quit [Client Quit] 00:08:17 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:08:42 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:11:11 centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-139-8.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:21 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 00:13:24 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-138-102-254.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:16:54 -!- fsmunoz [~user@bl11-118-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:17:36 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-139-8.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:20:59 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@200.48.22.49] has quit [Quit: PuercoPop] 00:22:32 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.9] has left #lisp 00:23:43 -!- pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:24:55 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:33 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:01 dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 00:28:01 -!- dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:28:03 centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-139-8.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:16 redscare: there's realib for infinite precision real numbers. 00:37:44 Of course, it's not a lisp library, so you'll have to use cffi to call it. 00:37:46 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-148-233-236.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42:53 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:14 Oladon [~Oladon@c-67-172-158-192.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:01 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@187.172.109.106] has joined #lisp 00:52:12 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 00:52:18 -!- cfdm [~user@222.235.51.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:39 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:55:42 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:57:09 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:57:58 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 01:00:56 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@198.24.31.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:11 pnq1 [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 01:02:19 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:02:52 -!- pnq1 is now known as pnq 01:04:53 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has joined #lisp 01:05:42 I just saw D-Wave is looking for "LISP"ers, if someone's interested in working on not-quite-quantum-computers in Barnaby, BC. 01:10:31 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:11:26 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:11:55 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 01:12:42 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 01:17:15 oh my, weren't they the ones that got so severely smacked down for announcing a classical computer that was really really slow? (: 01:17:27 sounds like they were trying to revive the lisp machine <-; 01:17:52 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 01:19:33 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.162] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 01:23:00 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 01:23:00 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:23:06 well, a coprocessor that does unconstrained optimisation of a restricted class of non-linear functions over bit vectors of length ... 16 isn't going to impress ;) They seem to have gone up to 128 bits now, and NIPS accepted a paper of theirs in 2009, so who knows? I'd be more interested if I had an idea of what exactly it is their thing computes. 01:23:43 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B3C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:24:36 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:24:51 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:25:27 -!- ebobby [~fms@38.111.144.18] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:26:35 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has joined #lisp 01:27:51 Vicfred [~Grothendi@189.228.39.35] has joined #lisp 01:30:57 barnaby, bc? 01:31:37 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:35:38 _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:32 b*u*rnaby, sorry. 01:37:22 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.232.94.154] has joined #lisp 01:40:31 -!- anon119 [~bman@12.104.148.2] has left #lisp 01:41:03 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:42:45 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 01:42:45 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:43:03 miql [~miql@ip98-165-228-225.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:12 -!- NeuroHacker [~ninja@178.122.80.254] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 01:50:43 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:50:45 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@187.172.109.106] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:51:16 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:51:53 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 01:53:50 what's the best way of interfacing lisp with libflash? 01:54:08 <_travis_> how come when i'm slime i get the text at the bottom of emacs to show you the functions/macros/etc i'm calling but when i'm editing a .lisp file i don't? I'm obviously missing something in .emacs file :\ 01:55:59 i get this error messsage on trying to local system with quicklisp http://paste.lisp.org/display/130775 . it's cl-ledger and i have sbcl 1.0.57 and wanted to see if i can load it and hack on it. any pointers on how i can get more information about what's causing it? it points out the file in system where the error happens but that's all i have 01:56:34 _travis_: M-x slime-autodoc? 01:56:49 _travis_: did you enable slime-fancy? 01:57:05 _travis_: you need to be connected to an inferior-lisp with slime, and the .lisp must be in slime-mode. 01:57:22 magnificrab: using cffi? 01:57:33 s/local/load 01:58:31 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.232.94.154] has quit [Quit: PuercoPop] 01:58:48 nicdev: try to remove the old .fasl and reload. 01:58:58 nicdev: fasl are stored in ~/.cache/common-lisp/ 01:59:06 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-17-153.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 01:59:07 nicdev: what's the file? 01:59:09 <_travis_> zort-: that does nothing for me :\ ; pkhuong: no; pjb: i thought i could just open a lisp file in emacs and it would handle it? 01:59:33 _travis_: no. slime uses swank to ask the inferior lisp about most things. 01:59:51 pjb: just looking into that actually, i was more wondering if anyone else had already tread this path before me 01:59:53 <_travis_> ah 01:59:59 _travis_: (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)), if I'm not mistaken. 02:00:14 magnificrab: search on http://cliki.net if there is, it should be referenced there. 02:00:45 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 02:01:06 pjb: thanks. 02:01:13 magnificrab: but I tought flash was dead. Nowadays people do html5. 02:01:26 There's even already TWO HTML5 standard comitees. 02:01:50 magnificrab: is youtube still using flash containers? 02:01:59 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.159.114] has joined #lisp 02:02:11 s/magnificrab/pjb/ 02:02:13 tab fail. 02:02:23 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-98.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:02:28 magnificrab: perhaps. But not on iPad :-) 02:02:49 pkhuong: the file is /core/valexpr.lisp 02:02:49 good thing i'm not touching an ipad if you pay me 02:03:04 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-186-73.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:03:44 I like my mobile c64 emulators with BASIC thanks. 02:04:50 jcazevedo_ [~jcazevedo@188.250.84.4] has joined #lisp 02:06:26 SuperSonicSound [~SuperSoni@gateway/tor-sasl/supersonicsound] has joined #lisp 02:08:19 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-227-195.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:08:37 -!- jcazevedo_ is now known as jcazevedo 02:09:23 pjb: i removed the old .fasl as you indicated and trying the quickload fails with the same error 02:10:19 pjb: skimming over the youtube api, looks like it pulls down a .3gp for mobile devices 02:10:27 but still flash otherwise 02:11:40 nicdev: then try with the previous version of sbcl. 02:16:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 02:17:22 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 02:17:30 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925078992.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:20:28 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925078992.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:22:54 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:28:48 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:30:37 nicdev: what happens if you declare APPLY-THIS-OR-LAST notinline? 02:33:34 -!- kau [~kau@host-92-20-190-111.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:35:00 -!- BrianRice [~water@63-228-106-62.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice] 02:35:35 springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has joined #lisp 02:35:39 kau [~kau@host-92-20-113-120.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:31 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:40:18 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:18 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:40:19 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 02:42:37 lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:14 evening 02:50:41 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:54:58 -!- springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:55:34 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:55:41 springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has joined #lisp 02:59:40 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:00:29 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 03:03:13 -!- kanru [~kanru@199.195.142.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:38 -!- benny [~user@i577A7C4B.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:10:14 benny [~user@i577A17D4.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 03:12:26 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-183-222.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:13:27 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.232.94.154] has joined #lisp 03:13:31 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 03:15:00 -!- denysonique [u484@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zglfmydfnmffekbf] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:15:20 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:15:24 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:15:50 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:16:34 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:18:10 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:19 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.64] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:24:32 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:24:53 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-131-180.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:25:38 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:28:43 -!- gekko_ [~jjk@78.157.103.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:35:03 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:35:36 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:17 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 03:37:48 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 03:38:02 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has joined #lisp 03:38:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:38:50 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:41:18 disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.162] has joined #lisp 03:41:47 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:57 nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@smtpbt.pramati.com] has joined #lisp 03:42:19 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:44:35 so I am in this conondrum that I figure you guys most see from time to time... but I am passing a value to a function and I want to change the outer biding, is there any other way to do this that isn't a macro? (for reference I am building a B+ tree, when inserting sometimes a new root has to be created so I want to "change" the given root for the new one) 03:45:42 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:46:06 -!- Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:46:19 Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:29 use let! 03:46:53 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@c-67-172-158-192.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:47:28 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:47:33 ebobby: see deref https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/bEcA9I3pjxQ 03:49:42 wouldn't it be better to use a usage pattern like (setf tree (insert item tree)), or something like that? 03:51:02 that seems to be very ugly when you want to insert a lot of things 03:51:05 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-17-153.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:38 Bike: a macro would be good for that which was what I was trying to avoid (probably out of custom from a life time of C like languages) 03:52:05 (setf tree (insert-list tree list-of-things)). or you could have tree be a 'higher' structure which contains the actual linked-nodes structure of the tree. or something. 03:52:20 ebobby: (setf tree (insert i1 (insert i2 (insert i3 tree)))) 03:52:41 ebobby: you can pass a setter, but I'd go with Bike's way, and define-modify-macro if you decide to be lazy. 03:53:37 ebobby: anyways, you should not be using setf. 03:53:48 (do-something (insert i1 (insert i2 (insert i3 tree)))) 03:53:51 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:54:15 or as wbooze said: (let ((new-tree (insert i1 (insert i2 (insert i3 tree))))) (do-something new-tree)) 03:59:08 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:59:31 pjb: well that construct seems to work with my current code 03:59:41 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 04:00:24 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:00:39 ebobby: you can also write (defun insert (tree &rest items) ) and (let ((new-tree (insert tree i1 i2 i3))) ) 04:01:47 mrxy [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 04:03:00 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 04:05:20 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 04:06:44 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:09:41 here's the code if any of you guys are curious : https://github.com/ebobby/cl-bplustree/blob/master/bplustree.lisp 04:10:14 still rough of course. 04:11:41 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:11:42 -!- wakeup_ [~max@xdsl-89-0-139-92.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:12:06 -!- blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:12:33 ebobby: all thos get-X set-X can be replaced by X and (setf X): (defstruct node type order size key record) 04:12:35 ice [~ice@222.130.134.26] has joined #lisp 04:12:50 ebobby: this replaces the first 60 lines of your code 04:13:07 And a few other following too. 04:13:23 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 04:13:36 asvil [~asvil@178.120.164.227] has joined #lisp 04:13:48 yes, when I did that i hadnt decided yet (and I havent) the final data structure for the node itself. 04:14:08 thus all the setter/getters to allow me to change that more or less easily 04:14:29 You'd just write (setf (node-record node) new-record) instead of (set-node-record node new-record). 04:15:22 You would still have to write readers and writers when you have "indexing": (defun node-key (node index) ) (defun (setf node-key) (new-value node index) ) 04:16:02 I didn't quite follow that last part. 04:16:58 defstruct only defines accessors for slots of the structure. Since you want to index keys, you need to write the functions explicitely. You can easily write a setter with (defun (setf funame) (new-value object indices) ..) 04:17:06 oh 04:17:29 I actually thought of the struct at the beginning but I settled for al ist for the time being. 04:17:38 wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-92-144.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:17:50 ebobby: you can still use defstruct to generate lists: (defstruct (node (:type list)) ) 04:17:56 or vectors with :type vector. 04:17:58 in the end nothing a few replace-regexp can fix 04:18:11 that I didn't know 04:18:30 I am quite new to CL as you can tell. 04:19:46 defstruct and defclass are really great to reduce the amount of code to write. 04:20:19 haven't got to that part in PCL yet :P 04:20:31 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 04:20:52 read a good bunch of SICP and then the little schemer 04:20:54 I started really using defstruct after reading PAIP 04:21:12 that's next in my buying list. 04:21:44 I got to the middle of Land of Lisp but for some reason I didnt feel like going all the way to the end and jumped to SICP and then to TLS. 04:23:45 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-139-8.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:24:06 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.232.94.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:24:16 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 04:28:15 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:32:15 -!- mrxy [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: quit] 04:32:48 kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 04:34:35 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:39:34 -!- SuperSonicSound [~SuperSoni@gateway/tor-sasl/supersonicsound] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:39:38 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 04:40:11 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:41:42 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.232.94.154] has joined #lisp 04:43:39 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 04:49:28 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:50:09 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:51:28 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.232.94.154] has quit [Quit: PuercoPop] 04:54:10 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 04:56:14 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:57:18 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:58:21 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 04:59:17 disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.162] has joined #lisp 05:01:23 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@75-101-56-253.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:09:27 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:15:05 loke_ [~user@c-1756e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:15:49 Hello 05:17:16 Daedalos [~Daedalos@wsip-24-249-48-167.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 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seconds] 06:38:59 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:44:46 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.232.94.154] has quit [Quit: PuercoPop] 06:44:47 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 06:44:56 cfdm [~user@222.235.51.254] has joined #lisp 06:45:37 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.105.76] has joined #lisp 06:45:47 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:45:48 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:45:48 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:47:05 gekko_ [~jjk@78.157.103.6] has joined #lisp 06:47:47 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:38 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:56:22 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-235-80.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:59:13 -!- Gavilan2 [~wefeawfwa@host150.186-109-240.telecom.net.ar] has left #lisp 07:01:29 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:01:41 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-41.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:02:26 pjb is gensym needed in your & macro? I can't see why 07:02:47 mrxy: which macro are you talking about? 07:03:16 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:03:20 https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/bEcA9I3pjxQ 07:03:22 scroll down 07:03:52 How far down? 07:04:29 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:00 OK found it 07:05:10 http://paste.lisp.org/display/130778 07:06:59 Well, it's obvious 07:07:26 need for gensym is? 07:07:41 Imagine you didn't gensym, and you call & with a parameter, say X. Then you happen to be using X instead of one of the gensyms. 07:09:36 yeah don't know how i missed that one 07:13:08 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 07:16:02 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 07:16:24 getoffmalawn [~getoffmal@CPE-124-191-133-14.wzyy1.woo.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:17:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:25:49 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:28:22 anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 07:35:18 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:35:36 NeuroHacker [~ninja@178.122.45.221] has joined #lisp 07:37:26 -!- Gertm [~Gertm@178-119-231-181.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 07:38:36 -!- NeuroHacker [~ninja@178.122.45.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:38:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:38:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.12.43] has joined #lisp 07:38:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.12.43] has quit [Changing host] 07:38:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:41:36 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 07:43:07 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:21 scrimohsin [~scrimohsi@gateway/tor-sasl/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 07:46:22 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 07:55:51 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:57:25 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:58:59 bitonic [~user@host86-138-102-254.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 07:59:05 TimKack [~user@213.208.236.186] has joined #lisp 07:59:29 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 08:00:41 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ztmcwghbxitkjrlt] has joined #lisp 08:00:59 xan_ [~xan@193.144.61.240] has joined #lisp 08:01:23 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:40 X-Scale` [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 08:02:45 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:03:34 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:03:58 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:04:17 -!- TimKack [~user@213.208.236.186] has left #lisp 08:08:24 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 08:08:25 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:09:19 -!- X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale 08:10:12 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:13:08 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.84.4] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 08:16:09 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:18:21 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:32 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:26:09 v 08:26:12 Oops 08:30:58 sweet_kid [mesian@unaffiliated/changednicks] has joined #lisp 08:34:57 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c12d2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:20 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 08:40:51 Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 08:43:51 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:43:53 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:44:32 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.209.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:45:04 -!- rj-code_ [~rj-code@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 08:45:22 rj-code [~rj-code@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:45:28 othertest [~default@c-67-175-240-211.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:54 PONG :barjavel.freenode.net 08:48:19 antonv [2e35c344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.68] has joined #lisp 08:49:52 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-114-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:14 PONG :barjavel.freenode.net 08:50:26 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:52:34 PONG :barjavel.freenode.net 08:52:38 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 08:54:51 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.159.114] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54:51 -!- othertest [~default@c-67-175-240-211.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:55:37 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.159.114] has joined #lisp 08:55:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:56:17 -!- mrxy [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 08:56:29 rtj [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 09:00:25 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-138-102-254.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:29 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 09:06:48 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.159.114] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 09:08:43 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:14:55 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-msziljrtkfdavvsj] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:17:00 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:19:06 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-155.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:19:32 morning 09:20:44 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o fe[nl]ix 09:24:59 OpinionatedGeek [~Opinionat@dsl-217-155-41-209.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:26:20 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:26:22 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-17-153.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:26:37 -!- kau [~kau@host-92-20-113-120.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:27:27 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:36 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-dcezibzbkuvxtfvb] has joined #lisp 09:28:35 kpreid [~kpreid@75.37.17.153] has joined #lisp 09:29:42 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:29:49 Kenjin: hello 09:30:42 I was wondering what is the best way to keep tabs on the state of a given thread. I have a program that uses a bunch of threads and from time to time some go silent 09:33:19 Kenjin: try (interrupt-thread) and let it (break) to inspect the stack? 09:34:53 I'll give it a try 09:35:24 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-dcezibzbkuvxtfvb] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:36:35 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:40:43 Kenjin: Deadlock? 09:42:07 I don't know. But a lot of things can go wrong :P It relies on Dropbox and inotify 09:42:27 I'm trying to figure out at what point it hangs 09:43:02 Vakaris [vakaris@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:43:38 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:47:05 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 09:48:42 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-bbuoqpufixfuozjt] has joined #lisp 09:50:34 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:50:36 bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 09:56:03 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-tfqcwassaoajmaga] has joined #lisp 09:56:03 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-tfqcwassaoajmaga] has quit [Changing host] 09:56:03 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:04:53 ur5us [~ur5us@223.194.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 10:06:37 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:06:39 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-98.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:49 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:08:56 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:16:00 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:19:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:23:47 -!- antonv [2e35c344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.68] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:24:03 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:25:23 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 10:26:55 disciple [~krishna@117.201.28.196] has joined #lisp 10:30:12 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-98.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 10:31:19 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.64] has joined #lisp 10:32:50 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 10:38:04 -!- loke_ [~user@c-1756e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:38:06 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 10:38:17 -!- rtj [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: rtj] 10:41:02 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:30 rtj [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 10:44:05 zltan [~trivial@118.195.65.181] has joined #lisp 10:44:12 hello 10:44:47 what do you think is a good start for a freshman? 10:45:11 what books are the must read? 10:45:31 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has left #lisp 10:45:34 I write codes in C/C++ a lot 10:45:34 zltan: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 10:45:49 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:50 SICP (like you haven't heard that before) 10:46:20 good 10:46:22 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 10:46:57 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: ragequit!] 10:47:25 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:48:08 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:48:17 zltan http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ is often recommended 10:48:53 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:49:03 already mentioned, sorry 10:50:28 Marune [5d5eb2f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.94.178.240] has joined #lisp 10:51:08 is there a not too long tutorial :P? 10:52:12 -!- Marune [5d5eb2f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.94.178.240] has left #lisp 10:52:36 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128050191.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 10:52:41 -!- antifuchs [foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:52:54 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:26 zltan: excuse me, do you know russian. there are some articles on russian 10:53:52 i think the "interview with lisp hacker" guy blog has russian lisp tutorials 10:54:33 antifuchs [foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:26 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:55:34 yup, http://lisp-univ-etc.blogspot.com/, links on the right side on top 10:56:26 ah, I don't know russian. but I found some manuals written by mit hackers 10:56:48 oh, well most of CL material on the net is in english 10:57:06 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.201.28.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:57:07 the above gigamonkeys book is pretty good introduction 10:57:19 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-140-189.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:57:31 maxm: why lisp is special? 10:57:39 Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 10:57:56 I mean what makes it different from other programming languages? 10:58:08 disciple [~krishna@117.201.28.196] has joined #lisp 10:58:12 zltan: many things 10:58:38 zltan: http://random-state.net/features-of-common-lisp.html has good info 11:00:22 concise 11:02:11 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip72-194-213-200.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:06:31 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:06:55 -!- rtj [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: rtj] 11:07:14 rtj [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 11:08:41 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.2] 11:08:46 random-state is run by nikodemus, right? 11:09:05 yes. though that document is not his own. 11:09:28 -!- Vakaris [vakaris@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:09:59 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 11:10:17 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:24 Xach: I know, it's a copy of arbscht's (Abhisheek's) website that's been down for a while. 11:10:52 There's a small utf fuckup that needs fixing (104). 11:12:34 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@223.194.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:13:40 I made a backup copy, too, but somehow it didn't spread to the public :) http://antoszka.pl/features-of-common-lisp/ 11:14:07 Vakaris [~vakaris@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:15:04 -!- zltan [~trivial@118.195.65.181] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:16:50 Is CLX still developed? 11:19:45 asvil: a little 11:21:59 by sharplispers? 11:24:57 a little 11:26:17 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:26:50 I want to enter this group, to avoid github issues, pull-requests bureaucracy:) 11:28:19 I see from the smiley that you are joking. 11:28:35 That's good, because what you have said is silly. 11:28:49 If you want to make changes, send an email with a patch and explanation. 11:31:01 ok, I will try. 11:31:46 -!- Vakaris [~vakaris@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:31:48 alama [~textual@stgt-4d0241e6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:57 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.76] has joined #lisp 11:36:33 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 11:38:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@193.144.61.240] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:38:39 eni [~eni@95-178-196-71.dsl.optinet.hr] has joined #lisp 11:38:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:39:58 Vakaris [~vakaris@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:40:32 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AF13.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:58 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:42:04 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 11:42:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-41.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:42:34 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-233-202.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 11:46:05 I find myself often adding more slots to a plist I'm using to make records for a db. What is the best way to add the new slots to old data?. 11:46:32 I would think it depends on the type of data, wouldn't you? 11:47:55 pjb, strings. 11:48:14 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 11:49:37 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50:28 drl: either they are adjustable strings or not. If they are adjustable, you can use vector-push-extend to add slots to the string and fill them with characters. If they aren't, then you will have to build a new string, perhaps using concatenate or format, etc. 11:52:35 drl: otherwise if your data is a plist, you can add new slots with list*: (list* new-key new-value old-plist) 11:53:38 -!- eni [~eni@95-178-196-71.dsl.optinet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:56:19 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 11:56:54 drl: actually, the question is the mutability of your database: where is the plist stored, and how you can modify that place. 11:58:46 -!- Vakaris [~vakaris@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:58:50 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 11:59:38 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:52 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:01:12 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:13 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:01:13 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 12:03:45 pjb, thanks. I'm called to dinner. I'll be back in a few minutes. 12:06:06 drl: I'd think about the kinds of queries you make on the database. 12:08:21 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-geswphuausdqhdeo] has joined #lisp 12:08:22 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-geswphuausdqhdeo] has quit [Changing host] 12:08:22 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:09:45 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.159.114] has joined #lisp 12:12:38 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.129.236] has joined #lisp 12:13:06 Vakaris [~vakaris@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 12:17:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-41.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:18:28 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-184-67.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:20:29 -!- springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:27:00 -!- alama [~textual@stgt-4d0241e6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 12:29:40 -!- Vakaris [~vakaris@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:31:40 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 12:32:41 zyg [57e37c83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.227.124.131] has joined #lisp 12:33:03 -!- zyg [57e37c83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.227.124.131] has left #lisp 12:34:49 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:37:16 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:37:17 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@chello084112185050.3.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 12:38:54 silenius [~silenius@i59F76CFB.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:39:15 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F76CFB.versanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 12:42:24 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.129.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:46:27 pjb, list* is exactly what I need. Thanks. 12:48:49 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:51:55 centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-162-50-137.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:44 xan_ [~xan@193.144.61.240] has joined #lisp 12:57:08 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-155.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 12:58:16 drl: Sorry, I made a little joke, since entries in vectors (and therefore strings) are called slots too ;-) 13:05:23 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:08:48 _travis_ [~nonya@204.111.204.21] has joined #lisp 13:16:55 Hmm, it looks like cxml:make-octet-vector-sink returns an adjustable vector on Clozure CL but not on SBCL. 13:17:07 *Xach* feels crying feelings inside 13:19:56 -!- ice [~ice@222.130.134.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:20:45 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:21:35 how can a sink be non-adjustable, did you tried calling vector-push-extend on it? 13:22:03 ice [~ice@222.130.136.102] has joined #lisp 13:22:12 *maxm* is making an educated guess as to what sink actually is in that context, may be off base 13:22:21 It can have a fill pointer. 13:22:45 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 13:22:55 I thought in sbcl when you specify fill-pointer t it always returns adjustable vector 13:22:59 and be a clogged sink. 13:23:03 maxm: i tried passing the result to a digest function that expects a simple array 13:23:09 No, it's two different things. 13:23:21 this is a combination of with-xml-output and make-octet-vector-sink 13:27:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:28:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:34:05 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-155.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 13:37:30 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.76] has left #lisp 13:46:58 ngz [~user@235.111.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has 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[~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:51:28 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:52:46 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@chello084112185050.3.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 14:52:51 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:54:36 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:15 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:32 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 14:56:44 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-172-122.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:58:56 -!- rtj [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: rtj] 15:04:55 optikalmouse [~user@gw.trapeze.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:03 emacs demographics survey: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGpiRWZSdHMyVDhwczQxMnh2R0VNbEE6MQ 15:05:04 :D 15:06:03 <_travis_> ugh 15:06:07 <_travis_> i have to select 25-30 15:06:24 <_travis_> i don't think i've done a survey since i turned 25, 2 years ago, depressing :\ 15:06:48 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ztmcwghbxitkjrlt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:09:26 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:09:37 aw ;/ 15:11:18 -!- zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176324030.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:22 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:11:23 eni [~eni@95-178-196-71.dsl.optinet.hr] has joined #lisp 15:12:36 rrradical [~rrradical@c-50-137-77-177.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:24 rtj [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 15:15:30 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:17:26 -!- atekinalp [~alper@88.247.181.163] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:18:18 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.64] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:33 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:21:18 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:21:50 Posterdati [~tapioca@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:22:12 stlifey_ [~stlifey@119.121.145.64] has joined #lisp 15:22:27 steffi_s [~marioooh@64.124.192.210] has joined #lisp 15:22:35 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:23:26 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-236-74.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-41.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:53 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:30:25 tensorpudding [~michael@99.160.221.240] has joined #lisp 15:30:45 -!- stlifey_ [~stlifey@119.121.145.64] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:31:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.19.45] has joined #lisp 15:31:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.19.45] has quit [Changing host] 15:31:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:31:17 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.64] has joined #lisp 15:31:41 just one question ! 15:31:57 does anyone know if the climguide of lispworks also holds for mcclim ? 15:32:06 err climspec i mean 15:34:35 mast` [~alex@bas1-troisrivieres32-3096575869.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:34:35 -!- mast` [~alex@bas1-troisrivieres32-3096575869.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Changing host] 15:34:35 mast` [~alex@unaffiliated/mast/x-9924406] has joined #lisp 15:36:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:36:14 -!- mast` [~alex@unaffiliated/mast/x-9924406] has quit [Client Quit] 15:36:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:37:08 argoneus [~argoneus@unaffiliated/argoneus] has joined #lisp 15:37:17 hello 15:37:23 what interpreter would you recommend for debian linux? 15:37:34 if I just want to do something like 'lisp somefile' 15:37:37 k0001 [~k0001@200.41.137.77] has joined #lisp 15:37:48 SBCL is a nice interactive compiler. 15:37:48 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:37:49 argoneus: SBCL 15:38:17 wait that's common lisp 15:38:24 are there any major differences between scheme/common? 15:38:25 argoneus: yes. 15:38:35 or is it ok to just learn CL 15:38:36 argoneus: Yes. Plenty. They're different languages 15:38:36 else use mzscheme! 15:38:47 hm 15:38:54 or chicken...or so 15:38:56 I haven't done any func. programming until now so I wanted to get into it 15:39:01 which one is more suitable for a newcomer? 15:39:03 argoneus: Depends on what you intend to do with it. Common Lisp is a general purpose programming language for "real" projects 15:39:16 sounds like you just want scripting.... 15:39:16 ah ok I'll use CL then 15:39:37 thank you 15:40:13 argoneus: I'd suggest you go here, and read. It's the best book available for Common Lisp: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 15:40:19 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:40:58 thank you kind soul 15:41:29 hope I am in for a hell of a ride with Lisp 15:41:31 As opposed to real projects. 15:41:55 argoneus: the best way to learn it is to use it for a real project. 15:42:11 I usually get the feel for a language on the first 3 project euler exercises 15:42:14 and then do whatever I want 15:42:22 I suggest putting some time in with CL and then putting some time in to scheme and then perhaps clojure. 15:42:54 There is a lot of overlap conceptually, but CL lacks first class continuations, and scheme lacks CLOS, and so on. 15:43:01 argoneus: it takes a while to get from "knowing" Lisp to "understanding" Lisp... In other words, going from simply implementing somehting, to implementing it while taking advantage of the benefits of the language. 15:43:14 ah 15:43:17 so basically 15:43:26 in Java/C++ I tell the computer step by step what to do 15:43:35 Zhivago: I agree on the Scheme and CL thing. Clojure, however. Why do you suggest that? 15:43:35 but with Lisp I can use different ways of thinking and implementation? 15:43:54 argoneus: Well... Not quite. That would be Prolog :-) 15:44:02 Most lisps are procedural, so they're not fundamentally differnet in application to java and C++. 15:44:13 is Haskell similar to Lisp? 15:44:21 But they have a different structural philosophy. 15:44:41 Haskell is a lisp derivative, but I wouldn't say that it is similar. 15:45:03 Lisps tend to be biased toward composition. 15:45:14 And language extension. 15:45:16 argoneus: Lisp is still a "traditional" language in many ways. Procedural as Zhivago says. But you have many more ways of expressing intent, meaning that you can always find a very "clean" way of doing things. Unlike languages like Java where you need a lot of boilerplate (or "design patterns" if you like :-) ) 15:45:29 ah 15:45:33 can Lisp do stuff like 15:45:37 Yes. 15:45:50 But so can any turing complete language with appropriate bindings. 15:46:17 fac(0) = 0; fac(1) = 1; fac(x) = x * fac(x-1) ? 15:46:23 See above. 15:46:24 can Lisp do this kind of stuff? 15:46:29 yeah but 15:46:30 -!- eni is now known as albacker 15:46:33 You can do that kind of stuff in brainfuck. 15:46:44 It's not an interesting question. 15:46:46 in other languages you can't just do it on one line 15:46:50 -!- albacker [~eni@95-178-196-71.dsl.optinet.hr] has quit [Changing host] 15:46:50 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 15:46:56 I mean 15:46:58 You can do it in C in one line. 15:46:59 you can do this in Befunge too 15:47:01 but why would you 15:47:03 Just don't use enter. 15:47:20 -!- albacker is now known as eni 15:47:27 For someone to understand functional programming concepts, I often recommend Unlambda. That said, that language literally can't be used for any form of real programming. But as a theoretical excersise, it's very helpful in understanding functional concepts. 15:47:39 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:48:06 -!- nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@smtpbt.pramati.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:49:06 argoneus: if you really want to know what that looks like in Common Lisp, you could write it like so: (defun fac (x) (case (0 0) (1 1) (t (* x (fac (1- x)))))) 15:49:22 pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 15:49:35 which would be wrong, anyway, 0! = 1 15:49:36 argoneus: however, seeing that probably doesn't help you much 15:49:58 Bike: I wasn't trying to write factorial. I wanter to reimplement his code :-) 15:50:05 I know. 15:50:24 oh, oopsie 15:50:28 Anyway. I have a customer presentation early tomorrow morning. Time to sleep. 15:50:34 now I see why lisp is called (((((lisp))))) 15:51:29 Is it? 15:51:42 well I've seen these 'jokes' often 15:51:52 Then C must be called {{{{{C}}}}}. 15:52:03 lol 15:52:15 BEGINPASCALEND :) 15:52:16 in C you don't do {bla{bla{bla{bla{bla}}}}}}}} 15:52:35 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: night] 15:52:37 No, you put every closing } on a new line, true :) 15:52:49 as someone said 15:52:53 argoneus: no, yo spread the }s on 10 lines like an animal from under your tire 15:52:54 -!- eni [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:52:57 if you have more than 3 indents in your C code, you are doing something wrong 15:52:58 :P 15:53:29 argoneus: but in lisp its easier to reason about nested expressions, thats why its ok, in C its hard, so you avoid it 15:53:48 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:59 argoneus: I had this problem, because I used to be a python programmer, and unprogramming myself from that horible "zen of python" shit took time 15:54:22 -!- ngz [~user@235.111.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:54:58 argoneus: you'll have a much better time learning new languages if you temporarily "forget" all the other ones you know. 15:55:02 i recently saw a library flying by on github's newly created libraries for common lisp, it handled pluralization and singularization of words. does anyone remember which one it was? i can't seem to find it anymore. 15:57:06 Humm? Can't you just do it with (format)? 15:57:37 madnificent: I wonder what the first result for "common lisp pluralization library" is on google. :p 15:58:25 Zhivago: you must be in a different bubble 15:58:49 Zhivago: oh, it's on the cliki page? 15:58:59 https://github.com/sgrove/vana-inflector 15:59:32 Zhivago: indeed, two links on cliki.net and i was there 15:59:40 foreignFunction: i needed it to be extensible 16:00:30 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:01:04 pnpuff` [~user@host114-4-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:01:23 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-114-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:02:21 vana-inflector isn't flexible enough either 16:02:34 *madnificent* quickly rolls his own ad-hoc solution instead 16:02:38 -!- pnpuff` [~user@host114-4-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 16:04:18 -!- pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:11:59 Mezon [b89139e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.145.57.226] has joined #lisp 16:18:27 argoneus: if you want to do lisp something, cmucl is the one. 16:19:01 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 16:19:10 argoneus: there are differences, but there's also a common core: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122296 16:19:23 I already found a way 16:19:34 I just use a .lisp file with #! /usr/bin/sbcl --script on top 16:19:37 and then just run it from terminal 16:22:15 argoneus: you'll soon discover that although you could do that, lisp is much better utilized if you consider *it* your environment, and not the unix shell. 16:22:33 -!- vaus [~vaus@233.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:42 vaus [~vaus@233.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:55 billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has joined #lisp 16:25:03 getoffmalawn [~getoffmal@CPE-124-191-133-14.wzyy1.woo.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 16:25:47 argoneus: your question about fact is dumb. In lisp everything that's computable is possible. See http://paste.lisp.org/display/130786 16:26:15 -!- Scheisselstadt [Scheissels@204.12.223.123] has quit [Quit: GeekBouncer - http://geekbouncer.co.uk] 16:27:37 I see 16:28:28 centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-162-50-137.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:39 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:30:13 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:30:49 wakeup_ [~max@xdsl-89-0-188-38.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:33:27 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:33:58 -!- wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-92-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:34:33 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-bbuoqpufixfuozjt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:35:43 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.59] has joined #lisp 16:35:55 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 16:37:45 *wbooze* makes a scottish gesture and cries! "Liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisssssppppppppppp" 16:37:54 lol 16:38:39 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.57.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:39:58 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:46:44 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-169-81-20.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:47:08 my turn to show off my factorial skills(am I a node.js hacker now?) http://paste.lisp.org/display/130787 16:48:52 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:49:42 pavelpenev: I prefer (defun fib-list (n) "Fibonnacci suite from 1 to n" (loop repeat n for x = 0 then y and y = 1 then (+ x y) collect y)) :) 16:52:37 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-169-81-20.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:32 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:53:35 is the PCL book close to the current stable version of Common Lisp? 16:53:55 Hee-hee 16:54:03 I know it's from 2003-2005 16:54:07 Mezon: ?? The standard has been stable for decades. 16:54:08 It's close to standart. 16:54:10 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-79-163.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 16:54:30 oh but doesnt like common lisp get updates and changes? 16:54:34 ok then how stable is the pcl implementation of sbcl ? 16:54:45 So it's close to most current stable versions of standart implementations 16:54:56 Mezon: Common Lisp is described by a standards document. Individual implementations add features, but the standardized core shoud be the same from one to the other. 16:55:09 oh ok 16:55:27 so does PCL teach the standard? or an individual implementation? 16:55:32 like how to work with it 16:56:15 I think it uses some Allegro-specific stuff in the chapter about web servers, but the vast majority of the content will work on any implementation. 16:56:21 oh wait I think I get it 16:56:24 ok nevermind 16:56:26 thanks :) 16:56:28 another question about the difference between standard and implementation? We have to make this into a drinking game. :) 16:56:36 -!- Mezon [b89139e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.145.57.226] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:57:43 pnpuff [~user@host28-95-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:57:43 -!- pnpuff [~user@host28-95-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 16:57:43 pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:57:58 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.201.28.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59:16 kanru [~kanru@199.195.142.182] has joined #lisp 16:59:28 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 16:59:54 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:00:12 disciple [~krishna@117.201.28.196] has joined #lisp 17:02:33 -!- dys [~user@2a01:1e8:e100:8296:21a:4dff:fe4e:273a] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:03:21 -!- OpinionatedGeek [~Opinionat@dsl-217-155-41-209.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:03:48 dys [~user@2a01:1e8:e100:8296:21a:4dff:fe4e:273a] has joined #lisp 17:05:34 pavelpenev: we wouldn't get any work done anymore 17:05:34 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:05:39 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@dsl081-060-042.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:53 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 17:10:40 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:13:18 denysonique [u484@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hynvfwwvnvusdnmy] has joined #lisp 17:14:28 -!- vaus [~vaus@233.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: vaus] 17:14:55 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-233-202.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:50 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:16:01 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:16:55 What's nice with standards is that there are so many of them to choose from. 17:16:55 17:16:57 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 17:17:02 Nowadays, it's even better: There are now two HTML5 standards groups. 17:17:07 And with the web, standards are changing so fast :-) 17:17:13 *pjb* is happy to be programming in standardized Common Lisp, unchanged since 1996. 17:19:15 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-ydsigieppiqhtvdq] has joined #lisp 17:21:05 pjb: LoL, it only occurs to me now: the nice thing about standards groups is that there are so many to choose from. this feels even worse 17:21:49 Scheisselstadt [Scheissels@204.12.223.123] has joined #lisp 17:22:21 -!- pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:40 somewhat relevant: http://xkcd.com/927/ (it should probably be on the cliki page about utility libraries as well :) 17:26:50 -!- rtj [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:26:54 pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:27:24 -!- xan_ [~xan@193.144.61.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:27:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:28:42 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 17:28:59 anyway, being part of the goldfish attention span generation, I was highly skeptical of standardized languages. What? It takes time and money and politics to update a language? better hack on the compiler instead, and hope all implementations copy it in their next releases :) Once your attention span grows to more than 5 minutes though, you begin to see things differently. 17:30:38 pavelpenev: squirrel! 17:31:10 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:31:48 lol 17:33:08 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 17:34:09 I'm reading the book - Practical common Lisp, but there's one thing I don't understand and it's not explained much, but I also know you dislike 'newbie' questions here, but, can I anyway? 17:34:20 argoneus: just ask. 17:34:31 well when I just ask I get told to fuck off and read a book 17:34:31 anyway 17:34:46 I don't quite understand one thing 17:34:49 if I have a *somelist* 17:34:51 argoneus: newbie questions are more than accepted, if you don't listed to the respons, you'll likely get shunned :) 17:34:57 and I push something to it 17:35:10 like, 3 other lists 17:35:22 then if I do 17:35:46 (format t "~{~{~a: ~a~}~}" *somelist*) 17:35:55 what exactly do the ~{ ~} mean? 17:36:06 I mean, in the end, *somelist* just contains as many items as the 3 lists do 17:36:09 they aren't separated, are they? 17:36:23 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:26 argoneus: that's part of the format control language. ~{~} iterates through a list passed as argument. 17:36:51 but if I have *somelist* 17:36:56 argoneus: if you have a list, say (1 2 3) in *somelist* and you do (push '(4 5 6) *somelist*), somelist contains ((4 5 6) 1 2 3) 17:36:57 and push 3 lists into it 17:37:00 they merge together, no? 17:37:03 no. 17:37:04 argoneus: no. 17:37:08 you have a list of three lists. 17:37:12 ohh I see 17:37:36 lists are objects too, it's reasonable and common to have lists of them. 17:37:48 so ~{~{~}~} basically 17:37:52 takes the list given as argument 17:38:02 argoneus: its a nested for loop 17:38:06 and then goes through the lists inside it and applies the 'inner' brackets to it? 17:38:23 I get it now 17:38:26 ehu` [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:27 argoneus: it will apply whatever's in the inner brackets to it, yes 17:38:55 the part that confused me was that I thought that if I had (list 1 2 3) and (list 4 5 6) and pushed them into *somelist*, then *somelist* would be (list 1 2 3 4 5 6) 17:39:28 argoneus: no, lists are treated like any other object. 17:39:41 argoneus: (append (list 1 2 3) (list 4 5 6)) 17:39:55 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:40:02 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:40:03 so *somelist* = ( (list 1 2 3) (list 4 5 6) ) ? 17:40:09 argoneus: try to grasp that the ~{ ~} lets you consume the elements of the list, but that what's inside ~{ ~} decides how many elements are consumed each time. in your example (~a: ~a) it always tries to consume 2 elements, but it may be another amount of elements 17:40:15 argoneus: yes 17:40:25 I see 17:40:28 thank you very much! 17:40:34 huh 17:40:38 well, depends on the order you pushed them in 17:40:38 argoneus: good luck with your future learning 17:40:48 thanks madnificent :3 17:41:01 by the way 17:41:03 -!- ehu` is now known as ehu 17:41:03 argoneus: ((4 5 6) 1 2 3) == (list (list 4 5 6) 1 2 3)) (: 17:41:14 do people prefer using 'dolist' or just 2 pairs of ~{? 17:41:18 -!- bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:31 depends on what you're doing, of course. 17:41:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@m212-96-64-81.cust.tele2.kz] has joined #lisp 17:41:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@m212-96-64-81.cust.tele2.kz] has quit [Changing host] 17:41:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:41:42 if I just want to go through a list of lists that is 17:42:19 argoneus: format is for printing output. when working on elements, something else is appropriate. 17:43:27 does lisp have lambdas per se? like x => x * 2 17:43:28 or so 17:43:33 yes 17:43:48 argoneus: lisp invented lambdas, or actually lambdas invented lisp :) 17:44:01 argoneus: (LAMBDA ...) ;) 17:44:10 first came the lambda! 17:44:18 argoneus: Have you considered that people are asking you to read books because your question are directly and clearly answered in them? 17:44:39 pkhuong: as I said, I didn't get what the book said about this topic 17:44:45 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.201.28.196] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 17:45:22 I didn't get what to imagine under 'when format sees ~{ the next argument to be consumed must be a list' 17:45:36 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-a-simple-database.html this would seem to go into lambdas plenty 17:45:51 argoneus: you seem to be from my generation of goldfish attention span, please be patient when studying complex topics like languages, and you'll be fine. 17:47:10 argoneus: you'll eventually get the ability to understand precise language, rather than be confused by it, it takes patience. 17:47:17 bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:47:24 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 17:47:25 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 17:47:30 I hope so 17:47:40 like, I don't get mathematic definitions at all, but can do them just fine in practice 17:47:51 -!- bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:52 minion: tell argoneus about gentle 17:47:52 argoneus: direct your attention towards gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 17:48:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:48:35 argoneus: its quite easy once you get some practice, you just have to be vigorous towards your own education, and not let your frustration get in the way of learning. 17:49:26 pain and frustration are good, it means you are learning, like with fitness, if your muscles don't ache you are doing it wrong. 17:49:30 GuglielmoS [~guglielmo@ppp-27-119.21-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 17:49:33 math is actually pretty sweet. there's a small barrier but once you get it, the rest tends to fall into place. 17:50:09 in my mind, it's a lattice of concepts 17:50:12 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:50:33 and the best part is if something doesn't sound right to you it should be easy to work it out for yourself and "prove it" 17:50:50 harder to do in science when you have to have all the equipment, conditions, etc 17:51:25 lisp tends to follow the same pattern imo 17:51:51 been three years and I'm still mostly newbish 17:52:01 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:52:10 but I can do stuff now and can figure out the things i don't know yet from that foundation. 17:54:40 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 17:55:48 bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:56:01 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-aeb2e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:25 Currently going through Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance for the third time(first time in English), a lot of good stuff about why some people are intimidated by technology and precise language, but if one is into computing, it's essential that they put conscious effort into mastering good thinking and precision, considering how unforgiving computers are of bad thinking. 17:56:30 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-41.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:56:36 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:56:40 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-ydsigieppiqhtvdq] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 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[~chatzilla@dsl081-060-042.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:16:50 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:17:10 fsmunoz [~user@bl11-118-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:18:53 -!- pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:02 -!- auganov [~auganov@77-254-121-126.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:20:00 auganov [~auganov@77-254-123-227.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 18:20:55 -!- bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@m212-96-64-81.cust.tele2.kz] has joined #lisp 18:21:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@m212-96-64-81.cust.tele2.kz] has quit [Changing host] 18:21:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:24:54 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.84.4] has joined #lisp 18:26:11 chturne [~chturne@host86-148-233-236.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:07 vaus [~vaus@233.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:01 paralumina [~paralumin@ip72-213-139-175.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:28 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 18:28:28 hello. 18:28:37 hi 18:28:47 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 18:28:50 hi, fsmunoz. 18:29:13 fsmunoz: have you programmed with mcclim much? 18:30:31 paralumina: no, just did the most basic "hello world" example. 18:30:53 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 18:31:49 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:33:49 ahh, thanks. maybe my problem isn't entirely mcclim specific, but it involves making a table that acts like a spreadsheet. my problem is that when i try to use (tabling () list-of-items) it errors saying I need a list of lists of panes, which list-of-items is, but the error places it into another list. would there be a way to iterate through the list so that it will evaluate? i've tried (loop for i from 0 to (- (list-length list-of-ite 18:33:49 ms) 1) return (nth i list-of-items)) but that only returns the first value of the list. 18:34:35 -!- SeySayux [SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has quit [Quit: SeySayux] 18:34:37 not the error, but the error describes my symbol as being a list of a list of lists of panes. 2 lists not 1. 18:36:28 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 18:37:26 ummm 18:38:31 i am thinking i may just have to think of another way of doing it. oh well, gotta learn something new every day; right? 18:38:36 paralumina: I don't know clim, but tabling just seems to call the make-pane function, maybe you can use that? 18:39:10 bike: thanks. I will read through the spec a little more about that and see what i am missing. 18:40:27 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:41:09 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-glqeaqrylpugamwc] has joined #lisp 18:41:12 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:41:14 paralumina: also, wouldn't mapcar be a more direct wat to iterate through the list? 18:41:26 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 18:41:31 (I seldom use loop though so it might end up being the same) 18:43:12 -!- Quadresce is now known as Quadrescence 18:43:23 fsmunoz: i am new to lisp. it took me a while to get the feel of it down, and i've failed to use most of the tools available for me. i will give that a go and see if it has any difference. 18:43:49 well, tabling is a macro, is the issue 18:45:41 it just calls (make-pane ... :contents (list ,@body)) in my implementation, so I think (make-pane ... :contents list-of-items) ought to work? 18:46:36 bike: i will see. 18:47:16 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47:38 *expands to a call to, sorry 18:47:54 If you just want to iterate a list, dolist, loop for item in list do, (map nil (lambda (item) ) list), or do can be used. 18:47:57 But not mapcar. 18:48:01 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:10 Mapcar builds a new list with the results of the function! 18:48:36 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 18:49:29 or mapc 18:49:54 bike: awesome, it works. thanks for the help. 18:50:03 thank you everyone for your help and suggestions. 18:51:15 paralumina: for future reference, if you're not sure how to use a macro, try macroexpanding a call to it 18:51:41 *you can try 18:51:59 will do. 18:52:21 what's the significance of a CLX backend anyway ? 18:52:35 i mean what does it do what clx itself not do ? 18:52:47 What, clim? 18:52:56 yep 18:53:15 wbooze: It is how CLIM talks to CLX, vs Cocoa or something. 18:53:31 It's an interface manager. CLX is a library for x windows. they're different things. 18:53:40 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:53:48 wait X is the server clx is the interface ? 18:53:54 for lisp 18:54:18 pjb, paralumina, correct, meant mapc, sorry. 18:54:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:55:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:55:24 fsmunoz: is mapc faster than loop? 18:55:44 kushal [~kdas@114.143.163.159] has joined #lisp 18:55:44 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.163.159] has quit [Changing host] 18:55:45 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:55:53 kanedank [~k@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:04 ah 18:56:33 inteface manager vs a specific interface ok i think i now get it 18:57:35 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.109.149] has joined #lisp 18:58:17 <|3b|> paralumina: not inherently faster, but it might be less verbose, and so clearer intent for readers and easier to maintain 18:58:33 |3b|: isee. 18:58:36 paralumina: never thought about that, I have no reason to suspect either way. It is mostly a matter of preference and style (also, dolist is perhaps the clearest of them all) 18:59:39 fsmunoz: makes sense after i looked at it. 1 line versus at least 2. 19:01:33 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.59] has joined #lisp 19:02:31 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:02:59 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-16-118.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:04:50 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:06:04 -!- kanedank [~k@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:06:09 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-169-81-20.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:06:09 -!- gigamonkey_ is now known as gigamonkey 19:06:57 kanedank [~k@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:57 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:16 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-155.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 19:11:05 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:11:13 thanks again fsmunoz, bike, pjb, |3b| for all the help. 19:11:16 -!- paralumina [~paralumin@ip72-213-139-175.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:12:39 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:14:46 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 19:16:48 -!- kanedank [~k@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 19:20:21 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:23:37 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.57.77] has joined #lisp 19:25:20 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-231-37.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:26:49 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:38 psykotron [~user@2607:f298:2:120::69c:4502] has joined #lisp 19:40:28 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:43:24 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.159.114] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 19:43:45 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:02 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:38 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 19:45:37 disciple [~krishna@117.201.28.196] has joined #lisp 19:48:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:49:15 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:49:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:49:27 -!- scrimohsin [~scrimohsi@gateway/tor-sasl/scrimohsin] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:52:53 SLIME q: For package-sensitive indentation, we /must/ use the API from SWANK, right? Is there some reason why we couldn't write elisp that would specify package names? 19:53:45 scrimohsin [~scrimohsi@gateway/tor-sasl/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 19:57:16 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:59:57 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 20:01:28 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-glqeaqrylpugamwc] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:02:43 anon119 [~bman@12.104.144.2] has joined #lisp 20:03:35 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Client Quit] 20:04:40 Here's another one: is there some way to get a backtrace printed into the REPL? The debugger window is fine, but not great for capturing and dumping in an email message, bug database, etc. 20:05:28 <|3b|> minion: tell rpg about trivial-backtrace 20:05:29 rpg: please look at trivial-backtrace: Trivial backtrace is a simple platform independent interface for generating a backtrace. http://www.cliki.net/trivial-backtrace 20:06:33 |3b|: ok, but if I switch to the slime-repl window, will that work? Trying the Allegro backtrace functions in that window just yield errors. 20:07:02 Specifically, it's not "how do I get a backtrace?" it's "How does this interact with SLIME's management of the debugger? 20:08:18 <|3b|> ah, might be harder if you are already in the debugger, though you could probably add a restart to print the backtrace and pick that in the debugger 20:08:48 <|3b|> i think there is also an option to switch to the implementation's debugger from slime debugger 20:09:00 my slime repl seems to think I'm in a defun. is there any way to, I don't know, clear that? 20:09:18 oh, nevermind. 20:10:45 |3b|: Thanks. Unfortunately, I'm using ACL, and the SLIME reader makes the ACL debugger useless... 20:11:02 rpg: I think (handler-case (form-that-causes-errors) (t (e) (print-backtrace e))) should work fine 20:11:11 in repl or otherwise 20:11:31 Yes, I think I need to figure out how to get my hands on the current error object.... 20:12:25 I really like the allegro debugger, but it uses their top level commands, which are incompatible with SLIME... 20:13:01 I should figure out how to push the commands through as slime commands. 20:13:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:13:15 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.64] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 20:13:28 rpg: M-x sldb-break-with-default-debugger ? 20:13:40 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-232-69.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:13:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:14:34 Bike: I believe that's what B does in sldb. Unfortunately, a separate problem is that the way one interacts with the ACL debugger is to, e.g., type :bt for backtrace. This chokes the slime-repl... 20:14:59 ah. 20:15:12 s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-196-42.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:34 rpg: anyway, I think the form I put there ought to skip the debugger, if you just want a printed backtrace for a mailing list or whatever. 20:15:49 Bike: Yes, thanks. That will do nicely. 20:16:49 -!- vaus [~vaus@233.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:19:08 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:25:41 francogrex [~user@109.130.140.161] has joined #lisp 20:28:49 after a lot of pain I finally managed to compile ecl on android then from the shell prompt ./ecl permission denied! the damned phone is rooted twice! why the hell that happens? 20:28:53 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.64] has joined #lisp 20:29:30 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@214-106-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is] has quit [Quit: Meep.] 20:29:44 francogrex: you have ecl on sdcard 20:29:50 sdcard is mounted noexec 20:29:52 yes on sdcard 20:30:03 <_travis_> :o 20:30:15 I even tried on data/local same 20:30:21 you need to copy it somewhere else or mount -o remount,exec,rw /sdcard 20:30:25 let me try again 20:30:39 also try running as root 20:30:41 francogrex: android seems to be teh bork to hack on. running ccl on webos was nothing more than copying the binary and running it in the shell. no hacking required. 20:30:42 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: dobranoc] 20:31:08 madnificent: android requires some extra knowledge and checking of some areas 20:31:26 <_travis_> madnificent: webos. i loved webos. :\ 20:31:31 webos was, iirc, much straighter case of "unix with pretty appserver slapped on it" 20:31:36 _travis_: there's no past tense in webos 20:31:52 *sykopomp* snorts. 20:32:28 <_travis_> are there any new devices running it? 20:32:49 webos is dead, by virtue of ending at HP. Not because of merit or anything else 20:32:50 madnificent: because it never really existed? 20:32:51 _travis_: i expect roots to arrive once openwebos is launched. similar to how you can run android on the TP 20:33:08 HP is where good technology goes to die in infamy 20:33:40 no, seriously. if within 24 hours after releasing some sourcode (in this case it was about WOCE) the first extensions and patches arrive, then i wouldn't say it is dead by far. 20:34:49 madnificent: well, I meant by that the webos as it was. OpenWebOS might have a chance, but unless someone will offer devices with it, it's down to the status of Linux on PDAs before all those customized offshoots started showing up 20:35:01 <_travis_> madnificent: i pray your optimism proves to be correct, but i just can't get my hopes up for webos anymore. i've had them crushed too many times. 20:35:08 (i.e. started as the main OS, ended kicked out because compaq) 20:35:17 <_travis_> when i can install it on a current device, i'll give it a shot. until then it's dead to me :\ 20:35:57 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 20:36:12 it seems like some alternatives are rising up. i expect more homebrew-like osses to be available. similar to how boot2gecko is getting attention 20:36:39 -!- fsmunoz [~user@bl11-118-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:36:50 madnificent: if there's something that should die, it's some of those boot2gecko and similar ideas 20:37:05 _travis_: lol, can't say the veer is expensive for what you get ;) i also wouldn't be surprised if you could just boot the vm on your laptop. 20:37:06 (IMHO) 20:37:40 p_l|home: could be good for the freedom of smartphones. it would be nice if you wouldn't be as confined to the os of the vendor as what's currently the norm 20:37:44 anyways, back to lisp :) 20:37:50 -!- hswe [~hswe@blackhole.space150.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:13 <_travis_> i'm scared. almost done with my LISP book. yet still feel like there is lots to learn 20:38:14 <_travis_> :o 20:38:34 ten years to begin with. 20:38:47 <_travis_> lol 20:39:09 xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 20:39:39 _travis_: which book, and is it your first? 20:39:48 <_travis_> Practical Common Lisp 20:39:54 <_travis_> book - yes, it's my first book. 20:40:08 <_travis_> I took an AI class in fall of 2011, which introduced me to LISP. 20:40:37 _travis_: lisp isn't like other languages. even though you might feel like you know the thing, there are most likely still a lot of gems to discover. pratical experience is good, but there are some other good books around. let over lambda is one, on lisp is another. PAIP is praised as well (but i haven't read it) 20:40:37 <_travis_> but the class was more of a here's what you need to know to get the assignment done. so the book is filling in lots of gaps. 20:40:51 _travis_: where was the class? 20:40:59 <_travis_> George Mason University. 20:41:06 <_travis_> amazing teacher. I got lucky. he doesn't teach that class often. 20:41:09 <_travis_> changed my outlook on CS. 20:41:22 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.109.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:41:49 <_travis_> i'm actually considering going back for my masters... meeting with advisor next week to discuss options. intro to AI is bar far the most fun i've had in the major. 20:41:57 <_travis_> by far* 20:43:08 _travis_: come to europe/belgium, we have a good AI manama -they say-. and its always cool to have lispers around. 20:43:19 <_travis_> my wife would love that :) 20:43:33 <_travis_> i've already ordered AI:Modern Approach. Sitting on the table. reading that 'book' next. 20:43:55 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.140.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:59 madnificent: Where's the good AI course you're mentioning? Does it deal with CL, too? 20:44:13 coursera has several AI courses. 20:44:18 <_travis_> yes. it does. 20:44:21 <_travis_> lots actually 20:44:36 <_travis_> coursera will be what I use if i do not enroll in phd/masters program. 20:44:43 <_travis_> i'm doing this one way or the other :o 20:44:48 antoszka: no, it doesn't. though most courses i took from it, they did accept us to deliver the code in any language (they never expected lisp, sadly). let me search for the link 20:45:20 madnificent: thx 20:46:11 antoszka: http://www.mai.kuleuven.be/ 20:46:37 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:47:31 thx 20:48:07 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:48:23 antoszka: you're most welcome 20:51:34 Lucky bastards, the most challenging part of my AI class was implementing DFS in prolog. 20:52:00 -!- scrimohsin [~scrimohsi@gateway/tor-sasl/scrimohsin] has left #lisp 20:52:19 <_travis_> yeah we did all our AI work in lisp. 20:52:48 <_travis_> final semester project was designing something to play GO. teacher wrote the game himself. all in lisp. then we played each other in a tournament. 20:52:50 <_travis_> was fun. 20:53:18 <_travis_> i'm sorry not go, 9 men's morris. not sure where i got GO from... 20:53:40 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:54:31 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:55:21 argen [~piero@190.245.151.215] has joined #lisp 20:55:42 Rajesh_ [~Rajesh@117.203.10.159] has joined #lisp 20:56:03 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 20:56:17 wow, clx has a comment in its source about using &body so zmacs indents a macro properly. 20:56:29 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.57.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:57:22 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:57:32 -!- psykotron [~user@2607:f298:2:120::69c:4502] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:10 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 20:59:12 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 20:59:39 hswe [~hswe@blackhole.space150.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:27 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:01:02 zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176324030.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:01:14 eni [~eni@95-178-196-71.dsl.optinet.hr] has joined #lisp 21:01:44 -!- Rajesh_ [~Rajesh@117.203.10.159] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:04:33 Rajesh_ [~Rajesh@117.203.10.159] has joined #lisp 21:07:05 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-41.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:19 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.41.137.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:09:42 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@204.111.204.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:10:15 pavelpenev: The only reason for &body vs &rest is as an editor hint, I think. 21:11:25 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:12:37 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:24 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:14:07 -!- Rajesh_ [~Rajesh@117.203.10.159] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:16:52 Rajesh_ [~Rajesh@117.203.10.159] has joined #lisp 21:18:22 sellout: also a programmer hint, I tend to think of them differently, but what caught my attention was the fact that CLX was older than I thought. 21:18:52 speaking of clx, are there docs for it somewhere that I'm missing? 21:25:22 Bike: do you want web or texinfo? 21:25:43 web, I s'pose. 21:26:28 -!- Rajesh_ [~Rajesh@117.203.10.159] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:26:56 http://www.cawtech.demon.co.uk/clx/simple/examples.html 21:27:16 Thanks, asvil. 21:27:48 not docs, but really useful event dispatching to clos methods http://users.actrix.co.nz/mycroft/event.lisp 21:28:34 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 21:29:38 Bike: and any xlib documentation, example is suitable for clx too. 21:30:00 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:30:16 I see. From glancing through stumpwm I didn't think it was a straight xlib wrapper, so i wasn't sure. 21:31:32 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:33:41 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c12d2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:37:18 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-233-202.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:38:00 [SLB] [~slabua@host244-164-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:38:01 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host244-164-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 21:38:01 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 21:39:20 Bike: classic xlib defined two interfaces - C and CL 21:40:01 CLX is the second one. In fact, X11 protocol has some cruft caused by CL that shows now :) 21:40:05 (29bit XIDs) 21:40:06 what, really? I thought it was all C. 21:40:16 X was written in Lisp originally. 21:40:20 Postgres was written in Lisp originally. 21:40:23 Haskell was written in Lisp originally. 21:40:30 Anything good was written in Lisp originally. 21:40:35 Bike: nope. Try to hunt down the original X11 programming guide (a set of binders, iirc) 21:40:41 vol. 4 afaik was about CLX 21:40:41 wow, I had no idea. 21:40:44 Bike: yeah, clx is the only prominent non-c x wire protocol implementation, I think (: 21:41:19 most of what I know about X's history is from the unix-haters handbook, which, well, isn't exactly complete 21:43:13 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 21:44:18 antifuchs: because everyone else decided that ability to freely mix other libs with your X code was more important 21:44:57 (and easier to implement, though XCB is a bit different and iirc Haskellers been muttering something about generating non-c implementation with it) 21:45:42 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:43 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:45:43 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 21:45:48 so, this means that xlib and clx both implement the x protocol, which means they're going to be mostly similar but not the same? is that right? 21:46:02 kind of. 21:46:04 the api may differ, but the end result is the same 21:48:12 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 21:48:13 -!- eni [~eni@95-178-196-71.dsl.optinet.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:36 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 21:49:28 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:51:17 eni [~eni@95-178-196-71.dsl.optinet.hr] has joined #lisp 21:51:34 I see. Thanks. 21:51:40 Bike: though be prepared that some stuff simply won't work, like Xft2 - you'll need one of the font rendering thingys 21:52:03 If I want make method in one package for g-function from another package, need I use full g-function name: e.g. (defmethod package:method-name ...? 21:52:41 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:53:00 asvil: yes, if the generic function's symbol isn't imported 21:53:19 p_l|home: thanks. 21:54:02 Bike: there are attempts to replace xft, xcursor for clx 21:54:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:17 alexandria:format-symbol behaves oddly :/ 21:56:31 kanedank [~k@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:26 hey, what's a simple/awesome library for logging in cl? I like log4cl, but it looks like something for people familiar with log4j/used to parsing logs created by log4j 21:58:35 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 21:59:00 kanedank: I know there are other more recent ones, but there's log5  21:59:08 Aleksa_ [~Aleksa_@64-71-5-154.static.wiline.com] has joined #lisp 21:59:41 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:00:41 -!- Aleksa_ [~Aleksa_@64-71-5-154.static.wiline.com] has left #lisp 22:00:51 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:02:02 -!- ice [~ice@222.130.140.96] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:03:55 kanedank: did you look at log4cl's readme (nicely formatted at https://github.com/7max/log4cl )? It seems to aim to get a user unfamiliar with log4j up and running 22:04:28 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:48 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-238-157.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:08:46 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:09:39 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 22:11:44 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:13:02 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:13:08 lcc_ [~lcc-pi@75-173-64-141.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:36 -!- lcc_ [~lcc-pi@75-173-64-141.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:16:57 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.105.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:24:12 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:24:47 jasom [~aidenn@ip72-194-213-200.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:09 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.164.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:27:07 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 22:27:51 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 22:28:25 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Client Quit] 22:32:22 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:33:04 Does anyone have any example code for setting SLIME indentation from inside CL? 22:33:48 -!- eni [~eni@95-178-196-71.dsl.optinet.hr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:33:52 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-155.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:35:02 rpg: that sounds like a great blog post topic once you learn how (: 22:35:09 (I'd be interested in learning that too) 22:35:17 (swank:eval-in-emacs ...) 22:36:04 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:36:13 fe[nl]ix: yes, I looked at DIdier's example, but it seems odd.... SLIME is written to ask CL to stuff things into an elisp hash-table. Why not fill the table on the CL side and have SLIME just consult the CL hash-table? 22:36:49 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:37:09 because most of the indentation rules are in elisp already 22:37:22 The current approach requires messing with the (sensible) security prohibition against calling elisp from CL, and also requires checking for swank, etc. But if you just populate the hash-table in CL, you don't have to do anything like that. 22:37:29 the CL side only corrects and adds a few rules 22:37:36 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:37:53 fe[nl]ix: Yes, but the mechanism in slime-indentation is still separate. There's a separate table for entries coming from CL, and the old-style proplist for elisp entries. 22:38:29 fe[nl]ix: (gethash name common-lisp-system-indentation) is for stuff coming from CL only.... 22:39:01 fe[nl]ix: and slime indentation consults the elisp stuff first, and then falls through to the cl stuff (the comments say this is probably backwards). 22:39:47 be a hero and rewrite it entirely :) 22:40:03 lispers everywhere will sing odes to your memory 22:40:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:49:10 rpg: that sounds like it'll introduce some latency when editing text, right? 22:50:03 iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 22:50:19 rather, server roundtrips 22:51:59 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:53:17 _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:54 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 22:56:41 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:45 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:06 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-231-37.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:37 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.201.28.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:56 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:40 disciple [~krishna@117.201.28.196] has joined #lisp 23:00:55 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 23:02:14 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:04:05 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:15 antifuchs: Yes, presumably it would. I don't have a good sense of the latency of a single call across the swank boundary. 23:05:53 fe[nl]ix: I think it would be relatively easy to add the CL hash table and a lookup, within the existing framework (possibly initially as DEFADVICE). 23:06:00 if you're connected to a remote server, it may make it unpleasant to edit files 23:06:15 but I'd be in favor of a scheme that lets you customize indentation in CL (: 23:06:18 oh, good point 23:09:35 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@64.124.192.210] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 23:10:21 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:11:49 -!- zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176324030.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:59 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:52 nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has joined #lisp 23:15:35 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:16:40 I wonder if one could keep the basic idea, but memoize... 23:24:54 -!- argoneus is now known as geohgw 23:25:01 -!- geohgw is now known as giwehgw 23:25:08 -!- giwehgw is now known as argoneus 23:25:31 -!- argoneus is now known as gfiehgwe 23:25:35 -!- gfiehgwe is now known as argoneus 23:26:57 -!- argoneus is now known as Morgawr 23:27:03 -!- Morgawr is now known as argoneus 23:31:20 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 23:31:20 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:35:50 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 23:35:50 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:36:23 atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:12 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 23:40:11 -!- argoneus is now known as fapping 23:40:16 -!- fapping is now known as argoneus 23:40:16 tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:49 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 23:43:07 dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-183-222.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:14 pkhuong: on loading cl-ledger with quicklisp, not declaring APPLY-TO-THIS-OR-LAST not inline got rid of the error. any pointers why this declaration was causing the compiling to fail? 23:44:50 s/APPLY-TO-THIS-OR-LAST/APPLY-THIS-OR-LAST 23:45:26 <_travis_> has anyone taken lispbox and changed it to use sbcl instead of ccl? 23:45:36 <_travis_> i imagine it's not difficult, but wanted to check. 23:54:51 nicdev: looks like a bug in SBCL's inlining logic. There's been some churn there recently, but I definitely don't have the cycles to handle it. 23:56:04 centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-162-50-137.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp