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closed the connection] 01:16:12 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has joined #lisp 01:16:59 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-75-26.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:19:57 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:20:35 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-148-233-236.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:21:17 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-211-180.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:21:46 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-75-26.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:22:15 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-211-180.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 01:23:14 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-211-180.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:23:19 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 01:24:04 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable063.5-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:30:59 talc [~dalexande@c-76-102-13-144.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:12 Not many known CL names in my twitter followers, presumably you guys hate the ranting and/or don't care about "future dialect ideas" and/or are so skilled that most of what I say is either already known or known wrong?... 01:31:52 (Or just don't use twitter, or check stuff sometimes but not by following, or don't want to be associated with CL rants and stuff.) 01:32:43 erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:33:14 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:33 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-98.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:36:28 -!- atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving on a jet plane...] 01:37:18 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:37:34 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:37:55 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:38:20 ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has joined #lisp 01:39:42 -!- mast` [~alex@unaffiliated/mast/x-9924406] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:40:03 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 01:40:14 Fare [~Fare@c-68-81-138-209.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:45 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:42:13 -!- talc [~dalexande@c-76-102-13-144.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:43:51 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 01:44:10 Hexstream: what are you so upset about? 01:44:43 Ralith_ [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 01:44:45 madnificent: Upset is not the right word. More like wondering. 01:44:46 Hexstream: it's not like the stream contained insights i wouldn't be able to gain in any sensible other form. imo, twitter is one of the worst ways to share your ideas, especially if you try to label them as great insights. 01:45:01 it is simply way too short to indicate *anything* 01:45:31 i did like one of the links, but i don't intend to follow something that will present me with only questions (like 'what on earth would he mean by that') 01:45:55 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:46:41 Hexstream: fwiw, i have doubted to follow it. but mostly because information on lisp things is relatively scarce and because i know you can have something interesting to say. 01:46:42 Hum. Maybe I'm so used to my own ideas that I think they don't need much explaining, whereas they do. 01:48:17 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 01:48:30 Yeah, well that's what I thought, I go see the twitter of well-known, respected CLers and it's filled up with whatever random non-CL stuff, so I thought I'd fare a bit better with something much more focussed. 01:49:46 Hexstream: I think your tweets are (mostly) self-explanatory to an indoctrinated lisper, but confusing to anyone who only has cursory knowledge. 01:50:04 -!- Ralith_ [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:50:05 sellout: Hah, right, that might be. I thought about that. 01:50:22 Hexstream, what's your twitter feed? 01:50:24 some lispers make it easy to separate. following h4ns, anything non-german tends to be lisp, anything german is more personal. not really sure what to say about it, but twitter isn't great for anything that's neither short praises/disses or sharing links. if it were, we wouldn't be communicating like that. 01:50:43 A couple of them I had to read two or three times before getting, but came away with a good insight. 01:50:53 Fare: HexstreamSoft. Hexstream was taken. 01:51:23 sellout: what did you make of the &rest+ ? 01:51:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.2] 01:52:27 Hexstream: In terms of future dialect talk I'm particularly uninterested in variable naming or an extra set of parens here or there and similar nits. Also, too high volume. (I guess I could rate limit you:)) 01:53:16 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:53:37 Hexstream: signal to noize is probably one of the things i disliked about it too. though noize was mainly related to something like "please give me attention for writing this" which is noize i dislike :) it's cool that you put the effort in it, and some of the things *have* been interesting! 01:53:57 Vivitron: I don't expect the high volume to last, it's that there's many things I've been dying to say for years, somewhere that would stick a bit more than IRC. 01:54:29 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 01:55:29 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:55:55 madnificent: Right, I cringe a bit whenever I'm about to post things like that, I've been doing it a bit more lately and that's bad. Maybe try my first ~70 tweets where it was just "real content". 01:57:22 Hexstream: i've read most, if not all, of them 01:57:35 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 01:58:35 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:01:54 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.128.113] has joined #lisp 02:02:48 mucker_ [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 02:05:59 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483AB3D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:07:53 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:10:39 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:12:23 -!- erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: erikc] 02:13:00 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:13:54 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 02:14:09 leo2007 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has joined #lisp 07:31:49 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 07:32:30 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:34:18 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:05 -!- gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:37:38 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-147-41.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:33 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 07:40:54 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 07:40:55 pkhuong: thanks for your posts, I always greatly enjoy reading them (currently at http://www.pvk.ca/Blog/2012/07/30/binary-search-is-a-pathological-case-for-caches/) 07:46:31 but you could provide bigger versions of the images ... they're hard to read. 07:46:37 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:48:26 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:51:31 xan_ [~xan@193.144.61.240] has joined #lisp 07:53:41 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 07:57:28 minion: memo for Bike: defun has compilation-time effects. The most visible is that further compilations of calls to the function won't signal a warning about a undefined function. 07:57:28 Remembered. I'll tell Bike when he/she/it next speaks. 08:00:00 minion: memo for Hexstream: if there was anything interesting on tweeter or facebook, by now there would have been a gateway to irc, so that we could follow the streams here. 08:00:00 Remembered. I'll tell Hexstream when he/she/it next speaks. 08:00:39 -!- shopt is now known as aclocal 08:08:37 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-28-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:11:06 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.164.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:11:54 TimKack [~user@213.208.236.186] has joined #lisp 08:12:31 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 08:15:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:22:30 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-oqecryxoqyqonxdn] has joined #lisp 08:23:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:24:21 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:24:21 girzel [~user@114.252.240.239] has joined #lisp 08:24:42 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:28:52 nauar [~nauar@ip235200.bcn.altecom.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:35 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:49 asvil [~asvil@178.120.164.227] has joined #lisp 08:35:13 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-135-180.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:39:18 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:44:08 jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has joined #lisp 08:46:52 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-227-195.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 08:48:20 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.144.143] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:49:14 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.64] has joined #lisp 08:56:49 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 08:57:10 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 09:05:36 moah [~moah@dslb-094-220-126-161.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:42 hi, does anyone know how to deal with a "simple-package-error" on sbcl? i dont get such an error with other implementations (cmucl). 09:09:00 i dont know how to find out how exactly I am causing that error. 09:09:45 I'm loading a system from quicklisp/local-projects with ql:quickload. 09:10:48 what's the exact error message? 09:10:56 moah: sbcl should tell you which package it is that you're missing 09:11:20 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 09:11:47 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.57.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:11:50 tkd: it is missing my own package that i am trying to load from quicklisp/local-projects. 09:12:30 ...oh 09:12:32 debugger invoked on a SB-KERNEL:SIMPLE-PACKAGE-ERROR in thread #: The name "TESTPACKAGE" does not designate any package. 09:12:36 this is the message. 09:13:22 i have a package.lisp and in-package in every lisp file, and it runs in cmucl, so i dont really know what to look for. 09:15:26 moah: do you have asd system in your project directory? 09:19:56 asvil: yes, as I said, it works flawlessly with cmucl, only sbcl signals this error. 09:22:43 ok, deleting the sbcl cache seems to have solved this. 09:25:21 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:27:00 DataLinkDroid [~DataLink@101.161.66.31] has joined #lisp 09:27:51 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:55 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:25 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 09:32:40 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:33:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:33:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:34:32 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:40:44 -!- cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:41:15 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 09:45:33 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 09:47:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:47:37 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:50:21 alama [~textual@stgt-4d0241e6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:27 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLink@101.161.66.31] has quit [Quit: Bye] 09:50:47 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:51:50 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-lmugdlosqlejyqds] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:55:56 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:56:29 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:57:26 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 09:58:41 bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 09:59:02 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has joined #lisp 10:01:43 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.2] 10:02:27 -!- alelos [~alelos@ip82-139-117-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:04:12 pjb, when I started looking into ACT-R it reminded me of gbbopen 10:07:28 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-98.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:22 demmy [demmy@173.255.165.132] has joined #lisp 10:11:40 -!- demmy [demmy@173.255.165.132] has left #lisp 10:12:32 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 10:17:05 alelos [~alelos@ip82-139-113-113.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:25 not that they're similar, just some similarities. You'd think there'd be something like a second clade of pkgs which was a consolidation of the whole class of such pkgs, each of which typically has had several generations of refinement over several decaedes 10:23:29 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:24:12 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.57.77] has joined #lisp 10:25:53 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:26:04 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-lorjsnrjlysnehkx] has joined #lisp 10:26:05 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-lorjsnrjlysnehkx] has quit [Changing host] 10:26:05 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:26:51 /close 10:27:30 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 10:28:00 -!- harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:31:29 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B3C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:21 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 10:38:00 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38:06 lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-140-189.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 10:38:40 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:45:04 -!- H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:46:12 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-98.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:48:24 H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has joined #lisp 10:49:21 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-98.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:51 kau [~kau@host-92-20-190-111.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:22 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:55:18 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:02:20 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@223.194.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:03:04 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:03:31 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:06:35 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:06:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:08:57 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-68-81-138-209.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:21:04 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-98.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:21:54 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B3C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:25:51 -!- LAMMJohnson [ja@cpc11-nrwh10-2-0-cust397.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:28:24 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-98.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:39 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.164.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:31:47 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 11:32:50 LAMMJohnson [ja@cpc11-nrwh10-2-0-cust397.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:33:28 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-98.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:34:32 -!- xan_ [~xan@193.144.61.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:36:53 asvil [~asvil@178.120.164.227] has joined #lisp 11:38:30 -!- LAMMJohnson [ja@cpc11-nrwh10-2-0-cust397.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:38:58 LAMMJohnson [ja@cpc11-nrwh10-2-0-cust397.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:40:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:48:06 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:51:02 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-147-41.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:53:55 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:56:41 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:39 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.128.113] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 11:58:15 pjb: Can you tell me if any CL signals an error when calling (truename *default-pathname-defaults*) signals an error? 11:58:18 err 11:58:29 I hope that is understandishable. 11:58:47 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:00 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:12:45 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.231.37] has joined #lisp 12:14:01 atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:51 Whitesquall [~notwhites@109.225.58.148] has joined #lisp 12:16:12 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-64-150.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:16:34 pkhuong: did pvk.ca die? 12:17:43 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@187.172.105.25] has joined #lisp 12:18:10 ahh, there it is, just loading very slowly 12:21:03 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:21:33 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:22:31 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 12:22:44 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 12:23:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-41.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:24:34 ehu [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:46 Xach: doh (: reddit-ed by static HTML and images. 12:31:52 flip214: I'll try and edit with larger versions. 12:32:42 pkhuong: not needed anymore - I'm already done. But perhaps next time? 12:32:55 Or a nice PDF version that I could zoom into, losslessly? ;) 12:32:58 pkhuong: here's a nickel, kid 12:35:07 La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 12:36:27 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-29-153.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:37:24 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-28-75.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:26 -!- nauar [~nauar@ip235200.bcn.altecom.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:40:34 flip214: a loss less version would take multiple seconds to render each page. 12:41:26 pkhuong: well, I thought of using SVG to make the PDF, not from a bitmap 12:42:01 perhaps it should use only 0.01% of each dataset (instead of the 0.1% you have now)... 12:44:17 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:13 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:45:21 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:47:40 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:52:00 centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-139-8.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:45 kiuma [~kiuma@host148-131-static.28-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:55:32 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:56:21 -!- atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving on a jet plane...] 12:56:41 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B3C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:08 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 12:59:16 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@187.172.105.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:59:20 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:00:34 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 13:02:48 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 13:04:11 -!- alama [~textual@stgt-4d0241e6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:07:09 chturne [~chturne@host86-148-233-236.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:07:32 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:36 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:14:13 ngz [~user@245.12.99.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:22 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-211-180.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14:49 (morning 'lisp) 13:15:48 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:16:10 alama [~textual@stgt-4d0241e6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:30 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:18:08 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:20:30 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:22:16 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 13:24:39 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:41 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:27 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:29:03 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:24 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 13:29:58 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-116-186.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:27 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-184-67.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:32:59 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:00 xan_ [~xan@193.144.61.240] has joined #lisp 13:35:48 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35:56 shinta42 [~shinta42@123.120.85.97] has joined #lisp 13:36:01 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 13:36:37 cadr=2nd item in list caddr = 3rd item in list? 13:37:14 gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:27 <|3b|> sounds right 13:37:31 thanks 13:38:40 -!- gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:38:50 gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:52 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-139-8.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:41:05 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:41:38 huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has joined #lisp 13:43:53 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 13:45:29 shinta42: if you have to ask, you're probably better off using THIRD/FOURTH/etc 13:45:31 clhs third 13:45:31 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_firstc.htm 13:46:46 clarke2 [~clarke4@109.78.126.40] has joined #lisp 13:47:10 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:47:39 -!- ice [~ice@123.114.52.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:47:53 try not to write cadadrpillar code 13:48:37 lol 13:50:12 ice [~ice@222.130.134.241] has joined #lisp 13:51:13 aceluck [~aceluck@183.78.10.115] has joined #lisp 13:51:52 well, if you keep it under 3 [ad]s I can understand it fine, I think they were predefined up to 5, if i see cdddar in my code, I was probably drunk the previous evening. 13:52:15 Any sbcl developers here? 13:53:12 <|3b|> there usually are, or on #sbcl 13:53:16 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:53:38 <|3b|> better to just ask something and wait though, since they might not read it for a while, or someone else might know an answer 13:54:16 cadidadududadedudadurrdurr 13:55:58 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 13:57:14 sykopomp: ASCII scat singing? Now I've seen everything. 13:57:30 lispy scat singing* 13:57:40 :) 14:01:08 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.140.119] has joined #lisp 14:01:47 -!- ice [~ice@222.130.134.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:03:05 abeaumont_ [~Alfredo@89.130.60.29] has joined #lisp 14:03:11 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:45 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@89.130.60.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:03:55 disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.162] has joined #lisp 14:04:10 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.128.113] has joined #lisp 14:07:24 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.231.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:46 ice [~ice@222.130.138.188] has joined #lisp 14:11:27 -!- La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:11:40 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-upmgbrqgodnmpnga] has joined #lisp 14:12:04 -!- abeaumont_ is now known as abeaumont 14:14:03 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:14:14 boyscare1 [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:41 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:16:41 -!- boyscare1 is now known as boyscared 14:16:48 -!- limetree [~ircuser@li147-249.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:17:05 hargettp [~hargettp@65.219.237.244] has joined #lisp 14:17:50 limetree [~ircuser@li147-249.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:24:40 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 14:27:25 hswe [~hswe@blackhole.space150.com] has joined #lisp 14:29:07 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:54 minion: memo for Xach: no condition signaled, http://paste.lisp.org/+2SWD but it could happen (eg. if the homedir becomes unavailable or access rights are wrong, etc). 14:31:55 Remembered. I'll tell Xach when he/she/it next speaks. 14:33:20 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-186-73.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:33:42 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:34:12 minion: memo for shinta42: hi 14:34:13 Remembered. I'll tell shinta42 when he/she/it next speaks. 14:34:13 shinta42, memo from shinta42: hi 14:35:31 minion has a strange notion of "next" :-) 14:35:34 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:36:36 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-kwkqnazjyspnsjrv] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:37:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:38:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:38:07 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-116-186.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 14:38:37 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:51 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-116-186.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:39 -!- nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@smtpbt.pramati.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:42:12 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:42:31 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-116-186.as43234.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:48:01 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:49:58 tensorpudding [~michael@99.160.221.240] has joined #lisp 14:50:24 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128025056.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 14:55:51 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:56:13 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 14:56:16 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-233-202.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:15 with building ecl on android I'm almost getting there finally but the guy says cross-compile the GMP library for Android and then cross-compile ECL for android but doesn't give a link between the two like --with-gmp=... 14:57:49 is this normal? what's the use of building a seperate gmp then if it's not gonna be used by ecl? 14:57:58 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 14:58:23 pjb: thanks. 14:58:23 Xach, memo from pjb: no condition signaled, http://paste.lisp.org/+2SWD but it could happen (eg. if the homedir becomes unavailable or access rights are wrong, etc). 14:58:34 Doesn't ECL use dynamic linkage? 14:58:46 pjb: in ManKai Common Lisp, (truename *default-pathname-defaults*) fails immediately. 14:59:09 pjb: but if there is a foo.txt, (truename "foo.txt") does not fail. I don't really like that behavior. 14:59:14 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:35 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@host148-131-static.28-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:59:51 Zhivago, so one would place the ecl and the gmp in the same dir on android? 14:59:54 Xach: if you want portable behavior, you should perhaps set the *default-pathname-defaults* ? 15:00:15 Xach: Does ManKai fail on (truename (user-homedir-pathname)) or on (truename "/") ? 15:00:30 on the desktop the gmp lib is statically 15:00:39 You may also report the problem to ManKai, as a user's suggestion. 15:00:45 pjb: I hoped to use (setf *default-pathname-defaults* (truename *default-pathname-defaults*)) 15:00:58 pjb: and that is what works fine for all other CLs that I've tried. 15:01:35 Well, as you see in the last annotation, until the current directory is inaccessible. 15:01:52 That is an error with which I am willing to live. 15:02:04 jnbek|wc [~jnbek@74-220-196-96.bluehost.com] has joined #lisp 15:02:05 -!- jnbek|wc [~jnbek@74-220-196-96.bluehost.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:02:05 jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has joined #lisp 15:02:05 Most unix implementation use #P"" *default-pathname-defaults* and therefore use the posix current working directory. 15:02:35 If you're writing a user's program, user-homedir-pathname may be a good default. 15:02:45 I am writing a program called Quicklisp. 15:03:33 Ok, but for quicklisp too, the user-homedir is not always the best default. If you're writing a site-wide program, you may want to use an installation or a shared directory instead. 15:04:59 Xach: I'd use (or (ignore-errors ) ) with a few choices. 15:07:16 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-233-202.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:07:25 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.64] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:47 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 15:12:08 -!- shinta42 [~shinta42@123.120.85.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:12:45 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:13:00 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-bzvryvfhpdnofpvj] has joined #lisp 15:15:55 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:16:37 wakeup_ [~max@xdsl-89-0-139-92.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:18:07 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:19:18 -!- wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-175-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:19:41 -!- alama [~textual@stgt-4d0241e6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:24:50 NeuroHacker [~ninja@178.122.80.254] has joined #lisp 15:25:48 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.129.178] has joined #lisp 15:27:59 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:29:54 _travis_ [~nonya@c-98-244-123-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:18 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-216-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:32:04 -!- ice [~ice@222.130.138.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:32:22 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 15:34:22 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-169-81-20.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:50 -!- aceluck [~aceluck@183.78.10.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:16 -!- bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:31 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@65.219.237.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:36 hargettp_ [~hargettp@65.219.237.244] has joined #lisp 15:37:35 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-235-80.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:47 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:38:59 bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:42:11 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp@65.219.237.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:16 hargettp [~hargettp@65.219.237.244] has joined #lisp 15:42:22 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:44:00 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:45:56 *Xach* persuaded mkcl author to change behavior 15:46:17 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:46:56 -!- quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:56 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:21 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:50:12 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 15:51:07 -!- clarke2 [~clarke4@109.78.126.40] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:52:18 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:54:06 -!- bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:36 -!- TimKack [~user@213.208.236.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:14 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:59:57 syamajala [~syamajala@173-14-133-149-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:08 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@173-14-133-149-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:30 syamajala [~syamajala@173-14-133-149-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:45 ykm [~ykm@180.148.41.55] has joined #lisp 16:02:05 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 16:02:14 bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:03:31 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has left #lisp 16:03:43 Xach: success! :-) 16:06:08 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:06:59 Symbol names can contain #\Newline, can't say I'm surprised, but I just never thought about doing that. 16:08:05 Yep, any character. 16:08:30 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.140.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:08:32 Now, of course, it would be funny to write a program with a lot of newlines in symbols. 16:08:53 pjb: who said lisp was human-readable ;) 16:09:06 pjb: what about spaces? 16:09:16 pavelpenev: |foo bar baz| 16:09:21 Too. There's no obfuscated-lisp contest, because it would be too easy. 16:09:29 or foo| |bar\ baz. 16:09:36 madnificent: i mean would it be too funny :) 16:09:41 |(print 100)| :) 16:09:58 |(SETF THINGY)| occurs often. 16:10:10 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-135-180.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:10:33 And if you begin your program with (setf *read-base* 36.). 16:10:33 like some-name-with-a-lot-of-dashes or |some function name without dashes| 16:11:09 you can also write a reader macro to use a more unconspicuous character than |. 16:11:54 anon119 [~bman@12.104.144.2] has joined #lisp 16:11:55 pjb: I was going off the clhs, which has «defun is not required to perform any compile-time side effects» 16:11:56 Bike, memo from pjb: defun has compilation-time effects. The most visible is that further compilations of calls to the function won't signal a warning about a undefined function. 16:12:34 some function name without dashes 16:13:24 -!- alelos [~alelos@ip82-139-113-113.lijbrandt.net] has left #lisp 16:13:41 Bike: Correct. I was remembering "An implementation may choose to store information about the function for the purposes of compile-time error-checking (such as checking the number of arguments on calls), []" 16:14:13 pjb: i don't mind |, (|some looks kind of better than (some, and it can't be confused with quote :) 16:14:56 pavelpenev: yes, lack of confusion is bad for obfuscation :-) 16:15:14 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:15 but the question was how evil would it be to use symbols with spaces in real code 16:15:27 Not much. 16:15:41 |this name| or this\ name is not bad. 16:16:08 (defmacro \ (&rest args) `(lambda ,@args)) (\ (x) (+ x x)) 16:17:56 that's pretty evil. 16:18:15 it doesn't seem to add too much clarity over dashes, so its not very beneficial either, I guess I at least see why it's not more common. 16:18:19 -!- mason` [~user@wsip-98-189-9-189.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:38 anyway, gotta go now 16:20:08 minion: memo for Hexstream: wrt your twitter post, is there any reason to stop at supporting surds? you could support all computable reals a la http://www.haible.de/bruno/MichaelStoll/reals.html. 16:20:09 Remembered. I'll tell Hexstream when he/she/it next speaks. 16:20:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:23:29 -!- girzel [~user@114.252.240.239] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:28:02 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 16:28:37 fsmunoz [~user@bl11-118-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 16:30:46 -!- moah [~moah@dslb-094-220-126-161.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 16:34:02 -!- dys [~user@2a01:1e8:e100:8296:21a:4dff:fe4e:273a] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:07 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 16:34:54 dys [~user@2a01:1e8:e100:8296:21a:4dff:fe4e:273a] has joined #lisp 16:36:12 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 16:37:37 -!- Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:38:00 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 16:38:59 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@65.219.237.244] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:42:00 Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:12 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-bzvryvfhpdnofpvj] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:47:47 is there a quicklisp/asdf equivalent of "make clean"? 16:49:32 sigjuice: I just do find . -name '*.fasl' -delete 16:50:20 Under default settings, removing ~/.cache/common-lisp/ will do about the same thing. 16:52:27 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:52:51 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:53:54 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:54:42 Thanks. Removing subdirectories under ~/.cache/common-lisp/ did the trick. 16:55:39 k0001 [~k0001@200.41.137.85] has joined #lisp 16:56:19 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:28 Just out of curiosity, any particular reason why swank fasls are not in ~/.cache/common-lisp? 16:57:01 the ~/.cache/common-lisp fasl separation is done by asdf, and swank does not really use asdf. 16:57:06 it does its own thing. 16:57:17 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:58:12 Whitesqu_ [~notwhites@109.225.12.16] has joined #lisp 16:58:56 disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.162] has joined #lisp 16:59:51 -!- Whitesquall [~notwhites@109.225.58.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:00:02 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:05:11 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:21 -!- anon119 [~bman@12.104.144.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:07:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.129.178] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 17:11:23 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@173-14-133-149-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:37 -!- xmajoh [~markus@c83-253-76-137.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Lämnar] 17:12:29 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.64] has joined #lisp 17:12:39 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Quit: PuercoPop] 17:14:00 anon119 [~bman@12.104.148.2] has joined #lisp 17:17:06 Raimiss [lukitas14a@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 17:17:15 so to clarify my earlier comment to pjb, packages like Sneps, GBB, Act-R date from before the winter and have each gone thru generations of internal refinement 17:18:11 *maxm* points to the 2nd annotation to http://paste.lisp.org/display/129073 17:18:20 for C-c C-k to put fasl into same place asdf puts them 17:18:54 you might think that there would ba a second generation of consolidated knowledge based architectures but my sense is that post winter that kind of general arch is avoid in favor of specific task performance like in data mining and the like 17:19:17 *is avoided 17:21:39 -!- xan_ [~xan@193.144.61.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:10 -!- Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:22:12 -!- bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:18 clarke2 [~clarke4@109.78.126.40] has joined #lisp 17:22:24 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:23:13 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-186-73.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:23:24 (so used "clade" because the named projects themselves each have generations) 17:23:53 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:50 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 17:24:59 -!- clarke2 [~clarke4@109.78.126.40] has quit [Client Quit] 17:25:31 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-225-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:06 pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:28:18 -!- LAMMJohnson [ja@cpc11-nrwh10-2-0-cust397.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:29:48 Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:56 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.151] has joined #lisp 17:32:54 michaelw_ [~michaelw@tor.foldr.org] has joined #lisp 17:35:32 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 17:36:07 is there a document explaining how SBCL does PIC for methods? 17:36:12 hagish [~hagish@p5DCBEBE3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:42 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:36:50 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@200.48.22.49] has joined #lisp 17:37:21 ehu [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:05 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 17:38:17 -!- ykm [~ykm@180.148.41.55] has left #lisp 17:38:18 mrxy [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 17:39:19 michaelw_: you mean position independent code? 17:39:22 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 17:39:40 p_l|home: portable inline cache 17:39:55 ah 17:40:06 or was it polymorphic 17:40:09 I always forget :( 17:40:13 I seem to recall something about (load-time-value) 17:40:19 polymorphic :) 17:40:21 , 17:40:23 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.162] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 17:40:55 but not sure if it was just part of some sbcl dev's blog post, or actual part of SBCL 17:41:18 it is part of sbcl, and nikodemus (i think) wrote about how to do it for some other purpose 17:41:27 Vakaris [vakaris@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 17:41:38 I read through that code a couple of years ago. I wish I remembered the details. I mostly just spent a while doing M-. :( 17:41:39 yeah, it's a very powerful technique 17:41:58 Xach: yeah, nikodemus (and possibly Xophe) worked on this 17:42:32 alas, my Google-fu is weak today. 17:42:34 http://random-state.net/log/3507261942.html is what he wrote about 17:42:44 http://random-state.net/log/3507100003.html also 17:42:55 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 17:44:22 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:44:31 afk - dinnertime 17:45:27 Xach: I was looking for his CLOS optimizations along the same lines. IIRC, they are a bit more complex than that. 17:45:58 gotcha 17:48:09 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 17:49:54 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-oqecryxoqyqonxdn] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:54:41 centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-139-8.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:35 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:56:29 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:57:53 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 17:59:25 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Client Quit] 17:59:39 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-28-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:39 -!- hpd [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:03:19 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:04:57 LAMMJohnson [ja@cpc11-nrwh10-2-0-cust397.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:05:23 what's the state of CL on iphone? after a quick google search CCL and ECL were mentioned, but articles were pretty dated. and I couldn't find anything on their official pages 18:05:43 I saw Clozure CL on a jailbroken ipad, but not on an iphone. 18:06:28 -!- Raimiss [lukitas14a@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:06:44 -!- Vakaris [vakaris@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:07:15 Vakaris [~vakaris@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 18:07:22 mrxy: Yeah, CCL need the iOS device to be jailbroken, ECL should work regardless, though. 18:08:55 Raimiss [~lukitas14@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 18:10:57 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-139-8.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:12:59 hpd [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 18:13:14 -!- Raimiss [~lukitas14@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:13:44 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:50 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 18:13:59 -!- Vakaris [~vakaris@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:14:59 Raimiss [lukitas14a@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 18:15:20 Vakaris [~vakaris@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 18:15:53 steffi_s [~marioooh@64.124.192.210] has joined #lisp 18:16:05 centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-139-8.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:47 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-139-8.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:21:40 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:21:53 -!- pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:12 sabalaba [~Adium@2602:306:cfc8:8c30:2d41:27ce:ebb5:5f21] has joined #lisp 18:27:48 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:27:48 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.128.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:28:56 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.139.19] has joined #lisp 18:32:14 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.139.19] has quit [Client Quit] 18:33:29 disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.162] has joined #lisp 18:33:44 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:09 Xach: till recently clozure required ARMv7, so iphone 3gs (not 2g/3g) and iPad (and up 18:37:00 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 18:37:29 but now they removed requirement for v7, yay! 18:39:25 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:40:44 kanru [~kanru@199.195.142.182] has joined #lisp 18:41:17 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:42:33 bitonic [~user@host86-138-102-254.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:42:59 -!- prince_jammys [~mischa@pool-68-237-87-75.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:00 prince_jammys [~mischa@pool-71-247-19-170.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:07 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@2602:306:cfc8:8c30:2d41:27ce:ebb5:5f21] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:53:11 -!- LAMMJohnson [ja@cpc11-nrwh10-2-0-cust397.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:54:49 LAMMJohnson [ja@cpc11-nrwh10-2-0-cust397.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:59:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:00:59 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:08 -!- LAMMJohnson [ja@cpc11-nrwh10-2-0-cust397.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:03:51 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:05:10 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 19:06:25 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:49 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 19:08:22 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 19:08:32 Mezon [b89139e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.145.57.226] has joined #lisp 19:11:07 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:18 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:58 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-233-202.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:30 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:18:15 -!- Vakaris [~vakaris@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:18:17 I note Scheme explicitly states it supports LISP's EXPRs, SUBRs and LSUBRs as primitive operators. Why are they not in Lisp? I do not understand the distinction made between a SUBR and an LSUBR. Are they still distinct in CL? 19:18:52 s/distinct/not primitive operators/ 19:19:35 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 19:19:50 lisp has primitive functions, programmer-defined functions, and primitive special forms. but what's the use of that classification any more now that it's not a marker in a property list? 19:20:28 So that's all the distinction was initially referring too? 19:20:49 What did you think it meant? 19:21:21 redscare [~user@ool-4b7ff65e.static.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:22 I was confused why SUBRs were distinct from LSUBRs. 19:21:35 Not really sure what I thought it meant 19:21:54 No use fretting over it, then. 19:21:55 i am using SBCL in SLIME (not sure if that's relevant) and was wondering how to turn on optimization of tail-recursive functions? 19:22:10 Assuming a SUBR was/is just a pointer to some object code, right? 19:23:03 In really old Lisps, functions were associated with symbols by having something like (EXPR [function definition]) in their property lists. I don't think the distinction is very relevant nowadays, and in fact I'm surprised to hear that Scheme advertises it? 19:23:42 Bike, this is an old Scheme paper from '75. 19:23:54 oh, no wonder. 19:23:57 Thanks for the help. 19:24:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:24:23 I don't remember the exact distinctions. I think l- means it's object code, but I'm not sure. 19:24:25 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:24:43 Meh, I'll just ignore the discussion about that for now :) 19:24:53 redscare: looks like it's on as long as debug is <= 2. 19:24:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:25:06 Bike: is debug a variable? 19:25:33 redscare: as in (declare (optimize (debug ...))) 19:25:56 -!- Raimiss [lukitas14a@78-62-133-19.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:08 Bike: thanks. also is it set to > 2 by default or can i just not write tail-recursive stuff? :) 19:26:21 chturne: you're probably reading one of Steele's papers? the distinction would have been more relevant then, since it was implemented in maclisp and all (which had lsubr and all). 19:26:40 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:27:18 redscare: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Debug-Tail-Recursion check the manual for more info? 19:27:56 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:04 Bike, correct. I just glanced over the MacLisp manual which at least gives me a bit of perspective, but I don't intend to study this anymore :D 19:28:19 chturne: good plan. 19:28:23 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:32 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:28:50 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:12 this could well be stupid, but it looks like i have debug <= 2, but a function i define within 'labels' that consists of an if statement, and either a call back to itself or the return of one of its arguments. this should be optimized right? 19:30:19 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.231.196] has joined #lisp 19:31:00 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.231.196] has quit [Client Quit] 19:31:13 redscare: paste it? 19:32:52 Bike: http://paste.lisp.org/+2SWI helper is the function that needs to be optimzed 19:33:00 Bike: thanks for taking a look 19:34:11 -!- Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:34:34 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:50 Forty-3 [~seana11@198.24.31.70] has joined #lisp 19:36:10 hey guys, I got the windows ccl from http://ccl.clozure.com/download.html (x86.zip file and unzipped it) and I also got the emacs editor running, is there anything I have left to do? Like do I need to set any environment variables or how can I connect ccl and emacs so that I can compile my programs? 19:36:39 should I get quicklisp?slime? 19:37:12 you should get those, yes. 19:37:34 ok and what should I do after I get those 2? 19:37:46 how do I connect them all? 19:37:50 redscare: seems tail recursive here. 19:38:00 Mezon: get quicklisp, install quicklisp-slime-helper 19:38:00 quicklisp has a nice method of installing slime, I haven't personally tried it on windows but you should probably start with that 19:38:17 Bike: if i run with f = (* x x x) and n = 1000000 i get an overflow 19:38:38 ok and once i've gotten those 2 what do I do about ccl? 19:38:58 redscare: it works for me. 19:39:29 Bike: hmmm. if it's not too much trouble, do you have any suggestions? 19:39:34 Bike: could it be SLIME? 19:39:58 redscare: I'm using slime. try restarting sbcl and doing it again, maybe you messed something in the policy up by accident. 19:40:13 Mezon: "do about"? 19:41:05 redscare: this aside, loops are usually preferred to tail recursion in cl. 19:41:11 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:41:13 like I see how quicklisp will work together with slime, but how do I like connect ccl so I can compile my programs with the emacs editor 19:41:33 Mezon: quicklisp-slime-helper will set that up for you. 19:41:48 Bike: really? why's that? efficiency? 19:41:49 Mezon: you will launch ccl from emacs with M-x slime , which lisp slime chooses is configured with a line in your .emacs 19:42:21 oh ok 19:42:25 thanks :) 19:42:47 redscare: it's just a matter of idiomacity. lisp has lots of iteration constructs and no guaranteed tail recursion, unlike scheme. 19:44:54 Bike: also, maybe you can see this quickly because i'm doing something i shouldn't be doing with numbers in lisp, but the function i pasted is supposed to numerically approximate integrals, with better accuracy as n -> large, but the approxmation with n = 10^4 is better than with n = 10^5? 19:45:16 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-186-73.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:45:46 redscare: it's been too long since calculus for me, but your function doesn't look like much like wikipedia's idea of simpson's rule: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/math/c/d/1/cd18b1d075e9c7d4e65314c8e95ccb45.png 19:47:00 -!- Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:47:27 Bike: When I do (quicklisp-quickstart:install :path "C:\\quicklisp\\") on the ccl command thing it says quicklisp installed but at the very end it says NIL shouldn't it say T? 19:47:40 Mezon: nope 19:47:46 oh alright 19:47:57 Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:21 Bike: it's n iterations of that formula over n subdivisions of the interval :) 19:49:05 Bike: plus it's very, very accurate for the first 10^4 iterations, so i'm thinking that somewhere around 1/10^5 i begin to start losing serious precision (which makes sense, it begins to heavily under-estimate) 19:49:20 redscare: ah. well, I don't know. maybe it's float weirdness or something. 19:49:51 Bike: i'm almost certain it is. does slime have infinite-precision? 19:49:55 floats? 19:50:42 redscare: floating point numbers. they are not infinite-precision, no. 19:51:48 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:53:56 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-231-37.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:56:55 there are rationals, which have infinite precision. but they aren't floating point :) 19:57:46 -!- tkd [~tomek@tlahuizcalpantecuhtli.wa.ht] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:06 piko [~piko@ip4-83-240-108-205.cust.nbox.cz] has joined #lisp 19:59:16 making it use rationals results in the same approximation for, uh, any n>1. 20:00:11 which is in fact the exact answer... it's been way too long since math class. 20:01:06 Bike: which is why i absolutely did not trust it :) are there popular libraries for infinite-precision floats? 20:01:38 redscare: you're asking for rationals 20:02:01 redscare: clisp has arbitrary-precision floats, and mpfr is a common library for them. Otherwise, libraries like computable-reals are really closer to infinite precision, as you can pump more bits as needed. 20:03:01 redscare: However, you should probably look again at what you're trying to do. There are probably more efficient ways to do quadrature than Simpson's rule with a tiny epsilon... 20:03:01 tkd [~tomek@tlahuizcalpantecuhtli.wa.ht] has joined #lisp 20:03:21 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-90-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:44 Integration is a stable operation though (quite the opposite of differentiation). You should be able to do fine with regular doubles. 20:03:52 redscare: if you don't need transcendental functions, you want rationals (built in to lisp), if you do, you want computable-reals 20:06:44 redscare: Ah, just looked at your paste (http://paste.lisp.org/display/130770). I suspect your problem is that you're defining h = (a-b)/n where a ~ b and n is large. As a result, you're going to be losing floating point precision quite badly. 20:07:24 My memory of numerical analysis lectures is hazy though. pkhuong: Can you comment? 20:07:49 -!- Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:07:51 rswarbrick: even if n isn't large you can have problems with that 20:08:04 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:08:24 pkhuong: Incidentally, I really enjoyed the binary search post! Have forwarded the link to some C-ish friends who I suspect will find it interesting too. 20:08:24 subtracting two floats that may be close in value is a code-smell 20:08:40 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 20:08:55 Yep. But how are you supposed to implement Simpson's rule? Add together everything then divide at the end, maybe? 20:09:11 But presumably then you have the same problem, performing things like X+1 where X >> 1 20:11:50 rswarbrick: actually depending on your interval size, doubles ought to be more than sufficient 20:12:28 jasom: Ok, that's not a really meaningful statement. I mean, depending on your interval size, floating point numbers with 5 bits are sufficient... 20:12:58 -!- Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:13:05 LAMMJohnson [ja@cpc11-nrwh10-2-0-cust397.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:13:06 rswarbrick: you should be able to get a dozen sig-figs with doubles and simpsons rule 20:13:09 with no problem 20:13:12 Also, read the backlog: redscare has a simpson's rule implementation that goes iffy for small divisions and was wondering why 20:13:51 Hmm. In which case, can you see the error in his implementation? 20:14:59 Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has joined #lisp 20:16:06 well the issue is that for small intervals and large iterations, the function begins to underestimate the integral more and more, I assume because as less significant digits in individual elements of the sum begin to matter more and more, the fact that float is limited precision becomes a problem. this is probably obvious but might as well say it 20:16:38 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:17:09 But n=1/10^5 doesn't match up with jasom's assertion about 12 significant figures. 20:18:21 Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:23 well to be fair in the actual code i do (/ 1 (float n)) 20:18:33 or does (float n) -> double? 20:19:06 redscare: pass "a" and "b" in as doubles and your code should work fine 20:19:26 (simpsons-rule #'exp 0.0d0 1.0d0 1e5) -> 1.718299950337058d0 20:20:13 Natch [~Natch@c-1dcce155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:20:16 (simpsons-rule #'exp 0.0d0 1.0d0 1e7) -> 1.7182820095443188d0 20:20:49 (simpsons-rule #'exp 0.0d0 1.0d0 1e8) -> 1.718281829608349d0 20:20:50 that was the problem :) thanks. is there a function like (float n)? (double n) doesn't work 20:21:11 redscare: (float n 1.0d0) 20:21:43 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_float.htm 20:21:57 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 20:23:36 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-227-195.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:24:53 of course if you run at a and b being far from the origin, you run into issues; it can be good to have a version of "f" that is shifted so that the integration happens near the origin 20:25:27 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:28:09 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128025056.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:32:04 also if your function is generally increasing, you should sum left-to-right and decreasing you should sum right-to-left 20:32:42 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-upmgbrqgodnmpnga] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:08 jasom: why the second condition? 20:37:19 steffi_s_ [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-yctmnegbqnkgsipg] has joined #lisp 20:37:48 -!- fsmunoz [~user@bl11-118-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:38:03 Suppose the function is decreasing and you sum left-to-right. Then you'll have things looking like sum_so_far + little_bit. If little_bit is sufficiently small, this is exactly equal (with floating point numbers) to sum_so_far and the tail doesn't contribute. 20:38:29 If you go the other way, the long thin tail gets added up first and so contributes to the sum. 20:39:01 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@64.124.192.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:39:01 -!- steffi_s_ is now known as steffi_s 20:39:37 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.105.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:43:00 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:43:19 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:43:40 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 20:44:22 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-41.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:49 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5DCBEBE3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:47:44 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 20:49:12 sabalaba [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:32 There's always Kahan summation if you care a bit but not too much. 20:54:13 talc [~user@66.201.56.150] has joined #lisp 20:57:45 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.57.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:57:50 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:01:18 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@c-98-244-123-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:02:06 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:02:41 -!- joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:08:33 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-xayeohefpzyvjdvv] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:08:45 -!- Mezon [b89139e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.145.57.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:08:56 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fybagajatjftfbvd] has joined #lisp 21:09:04 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:09:07 -!- mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-165-159.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:09:14 mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-165-159.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:09:35 -!- drewc [~user@212.110.167.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:09:43 drewc [~user@212.110.167.245] has joined #lisp 21:11:16 -!- jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:11:39 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:11:48 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:24 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:41 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:13:00 lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has joined #lisp 21:13:44 -!- redscare [~user@ool-4b7ff65e.static.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:14:07 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:17:17 fsmunoz [~user@bl11-118-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:17:24 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:19:05 joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has joined #lisp 21:21:41 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-233-202.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:25:25 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:10 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:31:14 -!- Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:31:57 does anyone know what happened to the xkeyboard thing ? 21:32:09 it's it's own package now! 21:32:35 but how do you use it the way clx was patched with it for mcclim ? 21:32:42 _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:41 my hyper key does not work in mcclim obviously, changing keyboard layout to us on the konsole and typing hyper-# produces the backslash for me but doing the same in mcclim based apps does nothing instead it tells me s-# is undefined! 21:34:53 Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:35:41 obviously my hpyer is on the left-win (only-win) key 21:35:44 or so 21:36:08 at least i have ~ back 21:36:42 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.164.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:36:59 -!- italic [~em@unaffiliated/italic] has left #lisp 21:37:10 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:37:15 or would s-# be super-# ? 21:39:58 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:39:59 -!- Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:40:37 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:43:19 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.41.137.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:43:53 Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:53 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:52:04 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:52:08 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:55:40 -!- talc [~user@66.201.56.150] has left #lisp 21:56:43 <_travis_> *ugh* making file operations portable seems daunting after reading the file i/o section and doing the practical in PCL :\ 22:00:25 is it defined if multiple for-as-equals-then clauses bind sequentially or in parallel? 22:02:17 «If multiple iteration clauses are used to control iteration, variable initialization and stepping[1] occur sequentially by default.» 22:04:32 wow, I missed that, thanks Bike 22:04:45 I didn't know either :/ 22:05:50 _travis_: you can use IOlib :) 22:06:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:51 <_travis_> fe[nl]ix: interesting. i haven't arrived at the point where i've started looking through publically available libraries. It is nice to know that people have tackled it, and going forward I should probably keep that in the bad of my mind; the idea that someone has probably built a better implementation that I could :o 22:09:01 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:10:02 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:38 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:14:06 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 22:15:54 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-234-229.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:18:28 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:19:34 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-200-205.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:16 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 22:21:26 [SLB] [~slabua@host244-164-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:21:27 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host244-164-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 22:21:27 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 22:22:24 -!- Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:23:30 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:25:09 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-225-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:25:42 steffi_s_ [~marioooh@64.124.192.210] has joined #lisp 22:26:15 Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:32 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:26:52 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-90-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:28:14 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 22:29:31 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-yctmnegbqnkgsipg] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:29:31 -!- steffi_s_ is now known as steffi_s 22:30:49 -!- Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:31:35 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Quit: Toodle doo!] 22:32:11 -!- Whitesqu_ [~notwhites@109.225.12.16] has left #lisp 22:33:21 statonjr_ [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:33:25 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:33:59 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:34:00 -!- statonjr_ is now known as statonjr 22:34:44 ebobby [~fms@38.111.144.18] has joined #lisp 22:35:24 Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:01 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:41:15 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:41:19 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:48:54 snearch [~snearch@g225077199.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:49:33 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:42 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:49:42 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 22:51:37 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:52:19 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:47 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:52:54 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 22:53:48 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:27 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.9] has joined #lisp 22:57:34 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:57:53 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 22:57:54 arrsim` [~user@2001:44b8:415c:cc01:6ef0:49ff:fe5e:dedb] has joined #lisp 22:59:17 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:59:50 disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.162] has joined #lisp 23:06:28 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 23:07:55 how can I get, in SBCL, the execution time of some invocation? 23:08:50 bitonic: (time (some-invocation)) 23:08:59 jasom: thanks 23:09:24 bitonic: that prints it out, if you need to extract the running time programmatically it gets a bit more complicated (and less portable) 23:09:35 jasom: nah, that's OK. 23:11:01 centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-139-8.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:27 atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:11:57 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:12:52 -!- ngz [~user@245.12.99.84.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:13:06 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@64.124.192.210] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 23:13:44 clintm_ [~clintm@66-87-113-252.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:58 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:16:43 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: dobranoc] 23:17:13 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 23:18:30 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 23:18:41 Transformer [~Transform@d-65-175-244-147.cpe.metrocast.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:23 ngz [~user@245.12.99.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:36 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:21:08 -!- Transformer [~Transform@d-65-175-244-147.cpe.metrocast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:22:21 redscare [~user@ool-435634f3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:31 -!- mrxy [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (Session timeout)] 23:23:04 -!- snearch [~snearch@g225077199.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:23:20 -!- clintm_ [~clintm@66-87-113-252.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: clintm_] 23:24:54 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 23:30:06 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:30:12 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:55 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-139-8.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:33:01 Gavilan2 [~wefeawfwa@host150.186-109-240.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:36:27 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:37:58 -!- Vicfred [~Grothendi@189.228.42.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:39:22 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 23:43:08 Calling get-internal-run-time or get-internal-real-time and dividing by internal-time-units-per-second and subtracting is NOT implementation dependant! 23:43:46 sabalaba [~Adium@75-101-56-253.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:49 centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-139-8.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:02 pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:44:13 pjb: right 23:44:59 dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-183-222.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:56 -!- atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving on a jet plane...] 23:49:05 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 23:49:06 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-139-8.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:49:51 -!- impulse [~impulse@65.92.151.209] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:50:34 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 23:50:47 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:54 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:43 -!- Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:54:05 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925078992.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:54:17 Axioplase [~Axioplase@218.201.120.153.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 23:55:05 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:55:14 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has left #lisp 23:55:52 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp