00:00:20 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 00:00:35 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:02:33 ah 00:02:47 thanks for the let enlightenment :) 00:03:42 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:16 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:12:33 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has joined #lisp 00:16:44 Oladon: this is what you wanted: http://paste.lisp.org/+2SVN 00:17:05 rotate could be made more efficient. 00:17:14 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 00:17:19 thanks, pjb 00:17:22 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-138-30.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:17:57 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-135-10.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:18:36 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-138-30.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 00:18:48 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-138-30.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:20:48 -!- nowhereman is now known as nowhere_man 00:20:52 alelos [~alelos@ip82-139-117-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:44 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:56 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 00:34:47 -!- kanedank [~k@c-75-68-165-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:36:10 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128047025.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:40:02 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@207.239.107.3] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 00:40:02 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@207.239.107.3] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 00:41:09 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 00:45:05 -!- fsmunoz [~user@bl11-118-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:46:51 -!- kennyd [kennyd@78-1-187-39.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:51:25 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-148-233-236.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:56:54 mast` [~alex@bas1-troisrivieres32-1167882300.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:56:54 -!- mast` [~alex@bas1-troisrivieres32-1167882300.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Changing host] 00:56:54 mast` [~alex@unaffiliated/mast/x-9924406] has joined #lisp 00:57:46 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:04:59 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:05:32 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:06:30 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:10:48 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 01:11:39 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 01:14:03 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:15:42 -!- bitonic` [~user@host86-133-193-137.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:19:37 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-187-39.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:21:56 Mezon [b89139e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.145.57.226] has joined #lisp 01:34:39 hey there everyone! 01:34:56 Transformer [~Transform@d-65-175-244-147.cpe.metrocast.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:17 I recently got CCL and I was wondering if anyone could suggest me a good text editor or IDE to work with as I learn Common Lisp 01:35:33 emacs is what most people use. 01:35:46 it has a rad add-on called SLIME that is very supportive of CL hacking 01:36:13 I see so I should get Emacs with the Slime add-on 01:36:47 -!- Transformer [~Transform@d-65-175-244-147.cpe.metrocast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:37:42 can I use Emacs on Windows? 01:38:40 no 01:38:49 that's foribidden! 01:39:08 lol 01:39:13 ofc you can! 01:39:26 there's a w32 version of it! 01:39:28 afaik 01:40:22 oh okay thanks :P 01:40:23 Mezon: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/windows/Getting-Emacs.html 01:41:10 Bike: Thanks! 01:42:37 mauro [~mauro@77.237.98.221] has joined #lisp 01:43:11 -!- jewel_ [~jewel@196-215-88-214.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:46:01 How can I catch all errors, print the result and quit? 01:47:56 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:48:38 mauro, explain? 01:49:03 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 01:49:38 I created executable and I want to just print error message and quit instead of being thrown to repl 01:49:53 -!- Mezon [b89139e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.145.57.226] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:50:06 -!- Sorella_ [~quildreen@201-58-235-155.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 01:50:21 AndroUser [~androirc@c-98-238-210-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:40 -!- AndroUser is now known as anon119 01:51:32 trying to get handler-bind working but conditions are still thrown. (handler-bind ((condition 'print)) ....) 01:52:56 ur5us [~ur5us@223.194.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 01:53:20 mauro, that depends on your implementation. in sbcl you can pass --disable-debugger to the executable, for instance. 01:53:56 cant I handle this in code? 01:54:12 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-98-92-29.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:44 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-98-92-29.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:58:43 (handler-case ... (t (e) (print e)))? 01:59:00 ehehehehehe 01:59:14 mauro, it maybe already too late at that stage..... 01:59:30 preventing the debugger form the start on is safe tho 02:00:11 as there are conditions which are not recoverable or may not be recoverable..... 02:02:00 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 02:02:37 Im not trying to recover for now, i just want to catch all errors I missed, report it to user and quit 02:03:12 it would probably better to use the implementation's dump mechanisms. sbcl prints out a backtrace, for instance. 02:04:06 I would probably want backtrace in log file, not for user (who may not even know lisp) 02:04:42 take a look at trivial-backtrace, then 02:07:00 I will. for now though handler-case and printing is good enough 02:07:18 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@85.85-87-28.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:09:03 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:35 abeaumont [~Alfredo@85.85-87-28.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has joined #lisp 02:11:21 _travis_ [~nonya@nc-71-52-232-124.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:25 -!- anon119 [~androirc@c-98-238-210-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:10 how come in lisp this doesnt happen by default like in other languages? Unhandled exceptions printing message and then quitting program 02:13:41 Because lisp development is usually interactive. 02:13:51 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:05 meaning using the repl? 02:14:34 And the debugger. For instance, you can modify variables from within the debugger and then resume execution. 02:15:06 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:15:23 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:17:14 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 02:17:36 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:39 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 02:17:51 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:00 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-138-30.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:20:09 yeah I see. if for example you used wrong value after long computation? 02:21:19 Sure. 02:21:41 do you have lisp running in terminal on one side and editor on another? 02:22:06 No, I use slime. 02:23:09 meiji11 [~user@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:57 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 02:23:58 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 02:24:15 booklet [~booklet@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 02:25:00 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:25:01 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:25:37 Which means a repl in one buffer, and files I'm working on in others, but I can use C-c C-c and such to interact with them. 02:26:18 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:26:20 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:27:10 <_travis_> i've never used the lisp debugger :( 02:27:50 What would C-C C-c do? 02:28:21 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-17-153.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:05 compiles the toplevel form at the cursor. 02:29:26 http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Compilation.html there's a manual, if you're curious. 02:29:34 C-c C-c is slime-compile-defun 02:34:04 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 02:38:53 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:11 thanks ill check it out 02:44:41 completion sounds nice 02:47:47 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@85.85-87-28.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:52:08 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 02:52:20 mixin:mixin 02:52:28 mixin:mixin:mixin 02:52:31 lol 02:53:59 -!- mauro [~mauro@77.237.98.221] has left #lisp 02:57:42 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 02:58:53 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.142.113] has joined #lisp 03:02:28 mritz_ [~textual@cpe-70-112-3-176.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:02:30 -!- benny [~user@i577A1CFD.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:04:46 abeaumont [~Alfredo@85.85-87-28.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has joined #lisp 03:05:53 lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:48 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@nc-71-52-232-124.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 03:10:32 benny [~user@i577A1D86.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 03:12:05 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483AB3D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:45 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839AC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:17:02 -!- BountyX [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:17:50 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 03:18:22 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 03:19:31 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:21:58 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 03:22:12 lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:22 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 03:24:48 kanedank [~k@c-75-68-165-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:02 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 03:29:07 -!- booklet [~booklet@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: booklet] 03:33:57 miql [~miql@ip98-165-228-225.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:39 BountyX [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has joined #lisp 03:37:54 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:38:00 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-181-94.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:39:39 leoncamel [~user@219.142.140.35] has joined #lisp 03:40:02 -!- kanedank [~k@c-75-68-165-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:41:37 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:42:48 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 03:43:11 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 03:44:30 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:44:38 PCL comments about `format' parameters to print tabular data, but doesn't offer much detail. I actually want to use `format' to print a table. Is there a place that I can read about doing that? 03:45:55 clhs 22.3 03:45:55 Formatted Output: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_c.htm 03:46:41 Bike: Thank you. 03:46:43 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:50:14 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 03:52:55 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:01 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:57:43 -!- meiji11 [~user@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:01 kanedank [~k@c-75-68-165-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:47 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.48.154] has joined #lisp 04:14:33 -!- kanedank [~k@c-75-68-165-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:17:05 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:20:04 -!- |nix| [~user@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:26:54 rj-code [~rj-code@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 04:29:37 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:30:43 kanedank [~k@c-75-68-165-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:16 -!- rj-code [~rj-code@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 04:34:32 rj-code [~rj-code@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 04:35:27 -!- kanedank [~k@c-75-68-165-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:35:50 -!- rj-code [~rj-code@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Client Quit] 04:36:05 rj-code [~rj-code@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 04:37:07 -!- lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:37:29 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:06 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@85.85-87-28.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has quit [] 04:44:00 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:49:31 mrxy [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 04:49:57 hello 04:49:59 (defun fractional-to-decimal (value) (float (1+ value))) 04:50:13 sorry wrong function 04:50:23 (defun decimal-to-fractional (value) (rational (1- value))) 04:51:04 (decimal-to-fractional 1.2) gives me 838861/4194304, but I want it rounded to 1/5. any tips on what I should do? 04:51:32 what's with the addition and subtraction? 04:51:36 mrxy: you want RATIONALIZE, not RATIONAL 04:51:42 bingchen [~user@218.109.45.4] has joined #lisp 04:52:14 Bike I'm converting from I am getting 725502/3627509 with rationalize 04:52:24 heh sorry two messages were combined 04:52:37 kpreid I am getting 725502/3627509 with rationalize 04:52:43 mrxy: 1.2 and 0.2 are not exact as floats (since fifths are not finite binary fractions) so you can't "just get the right answer" here 04:52:53 (rationalize 1.2) => 6/5 04:53:00 rationalize, then subtract 04:53:21 kpreid I know they aren't, but my result is rational 04:53:31 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 04:53:36 why do you have a float to start with? 04:53:39 (1- 1.2) => 0.20000005 04:53:58 (here, anyway) 04:54:11 i'm converting from decimal odds to fractional odds 04:54:24 -!- leoncamel [~user@219.142.140.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54:45 Bike here too 04:54:50 how did those decimals get into your program? 04:55:13 mrxy: so, why the addition and subtraction. 04:55:27 I typed them in the repl :). there's no program yet 04:55:28 those operations are not good with floats, as you can see. 04:55:35 mrxy: here is what you should do instead: 04:55:59 write a parser for decimal numbers "1.2" which returns the fraction directly: 12/10 (which is of course 6.5). then you can do exact arithmetic. 04:56:13 That said, this works on your example in sbcl: (1- (rationalize 1.2)) => 1/5 04:56:29 But it is more fragile than actually using decimal (implicit in rational) arithmetic. 04:56:48 (above I said 6.5 where I meant 6/5) 04:57:25 I see. I thought I could somehow round float while converting it to rational, to ignore everything past the first decimal 04:57:50 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:08 you *could* implement that, and it would probably work, but it's a bit perverse, numerically speaking 04:58:35 floats aren't for exact arithmetic, and so they're pretty bad at it. 04:58:47 if you're seeking to bash something out that works, I suggest using RATIONALIZE, but make sure you do it *first*, before doing any arithmetic whatsoever 04:59:14 ah I see, that worked 04:59:24 i.e. do it on the input to your algorithm/program, not after subtraction 04:59:46 yes it worked only in that case 05:00:10 the reason the float subtraction made a mess is that when you subtract 1 you move into a region of floats which has more resolution 05:00:18 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:00:20 ah 05:00:48 (- 1.0 1.2) is not the *closest float to* 0.2 because of that 05:01:42 Bike to answer your question, these are betting odds. decimal odds (used in european countries) calculate total return. fractional odds calculate profit 05:01:54 kpreid yeah I got it 05:02:02 http://www.heeltoe.com/retro/mit/mit_cadr_lmss.html 05:02:19 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 05:03:11 so to do this Right, you would take string instead of a floating point number? seems odd to pass a string 05:03:33 well, if it's inside the program you pass a rational number 05:03:52 it just happens that there is no read-syntax for exact decimals 05:03:55 but you can fix that! 05:04:08 with a reader macro? :) 05:04:13 exactly! 05:07:26 ehu [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:49 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@187.172.86.71] has joined #lisp 05:12:33 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-235-80.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:13:09 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-235-80.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:05 Ooooh, Tom Knight 05:15:47 I saw him a couple of years ago. Want to actually meet him. 05:17:14 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:17:31 *Xach* only met his wee sprog 05:17:49 asvil [~asvil@178.121.18.80] has joined #lisp 05:24:29 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:25:09 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:26:48 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:27:44 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:33:32 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:53 -!- miql [~miql@ip98-165-228-225.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:38:15 miql [~miql@ip98-165-228-225.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:41 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.206] has joined #lisp 05:53:51 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:54:52 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.238.115.5] has joined #lisp 05:55:39 Kron [~Kron@59.92.183.80] has joined #lisp 05:55:47 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 05:57:00 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 05:57:43 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.142.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:57:59 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 06:07:43 lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 06:11:27 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.105.76] has joined #lisp 06:20:03 -!- McMAGIC-1Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:21:33 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 06:22:15 -!- lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:25:33 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.39.255] has joined #lisp 06:26:23 -!- sav [~lsd@peirce.xored.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:26:58 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@187.172.86.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:28:21 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 06:31:18 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:35:19 lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:15 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:48:27 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.160.221.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:52:16 tensorpudding [~michael@99.160.221.240] has joined #lisp 06:53:44 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:53:46 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:54:01 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-214.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:56:00 jewel_ [~jewel@196-215-126-160.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:57:02 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:57:49 ehu [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:54 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-214.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:03:44 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 07:07:19 Hi all. How to catch the moment of removing an instance of the class? 07:08:05 asvil: clos has no concept of a "destructor", if you mean that. 07:08:06 when the instance is garbage collected, do you mean? 07:08:25 You may be looking for 'finalizer'. 07:08:30 asvil: you can either hook into garbage collection (see trivial-garbage) or design an explicit object deletion protocol 07:08:52 Confusing finalizers with destructors can cause many problems. 07:09:05 Zhivago: indeed. 07:09:21 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.160.221.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:10:33 Thanks, seems that garbage collection is what I need. 07:11:01 asvil: note that there is no guarantee that your finalizer will ever be invoked. 07:12:39 hm, implementation dependent? 07:13:20 asvil: of course. an implementaion may fail to classify garbage as garbage and keep objects alive that are not actually needed. 07:13:58 asvil: if you need manual memory management, you need to implement it. hooking into the garbage collector is not a safe way. 07:14:17 I need clx window removing. 07:14:36 asvil: does not sound like a gc job. 07:16:23 H4ns: yes, but over clx window there is class wrapper. 07:16:55 asvil: and that contradicts me like how? 07:18:54 :) Do you mean that I need explicit object deletion protocol? 07:19:01 yes. 07:19:09 You need an explicit 'object cleanup protocol'. 07:19:31 You could then tie this in via a finalizer. 07:19:33 you need to explicitly delete the window before removing the (last) reference to the clos object that wraps the window 07:19:44 But if you do so, you should separate the cleanup from the object. 07:20:20 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 07:21:20 Understand now. 07:24:25 -!- kanru [~kanru@209.118.182.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:31:25 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-237-226.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:16 hugoduncan [~user@69.157.169.36] has joined #lisp 07:35:19 -!- hugod [~user@69.157.169.36] has 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[~k@c-75-68-165-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:15:03 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 08:16:29 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:16:50 francogrex [~user@109.130.82.223] has joined #lisp 08:17:12 asvil: finalization is called termination in ccl. 08:17:28 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.206] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:17:59 And yes, it would be better to have a close-window method. 08:18:18 Notice the pattern of cl:open cl:close cl:with-open-file in CL. 08:23:15 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:28:32 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:28:36 -!- gz` [gz@clozure-123267BA.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 08:30:42 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping 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ykm [~yash@182.237.190.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:13:48 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-131-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 12:13:55 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:14:10 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 12:15:03 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:16:03 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: cya] 12:16:28 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-131-161.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:17:28 -!- xan_ [~xan@193.144.60.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:22:17 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 12:22:57 What do you think about antialiasing text in stumpwm? 12:23:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:23:56 antialiasing gives nice texts. 12:24:21 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-53-184.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:24:46 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@187.172.86.71] has joined #lisp 12:27:06 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.48.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:27:55 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.93.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:28:52 SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:52 -!- SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:29:05 SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:11 Or blurry. 12:31:30 Can you control it on a point-size basis? 12:35:13 asvil [~asvil@178.120.162.79] has joined #lisp 12:37:51 Zhivago: rendering is made by cl-vectors. So, there is no control of rasterization. 12:41:47 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:45:22 -!- stevejb` [~user@50.46.149.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:47:34 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:49:18 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.140.119] has joined #lisp 12:54:28 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:09 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.162.79] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55:52 -!- Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:57:06 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-138-102-254.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:03:16 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-151-243.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:33 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:14 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-151-243.as43234.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:05:10 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-131-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:54 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-131-161.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:06:02 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-141-48.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:08:28 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-151-243.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:38 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:09:55 asvil [~asvil@178.120.164.227] has joined #lisp 13:17:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:21:24 -!- EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:06 morning 13:23:14 -!- blbef [~chatzilla@089144206153.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 13:26:00 WhichMatt [~Matthew@60-242-70-238.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:30:20 -!- WhichMatt [~Matthew@60-242-70-238.tpgi.com.au] has left #lisp 13:31:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:35:17 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@178.74.88.121] has joined #lisp 13:35:17 -!- real-hitecnology [~hitecnolo@178.74.88.121] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35:54 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 13:37:28 r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.35.53] has joined #lisp 13:38:25 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:39:45 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:07 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-221-59.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:42:11 EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 13:42:31 minion: chant! 13:42:32 MORE RESOLUTION 13:42:42 weeeee 13:43:18 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 13:44:22 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:46:45 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 13:47:01 xan_ [~xan@193.144.61.240] has joined #lisp 13:48:03 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@187.172.86.71] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:50:43 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 13:50:53 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@187.172.86.71] has joined #lisp 13:52:20 -!- Archenoth [~Archenoth@96.51.223.95] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:11 -!- hugodunc` is now known as hugod 13:56:30 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:58:48 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@c-98-245-40-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:07 -!- Kron [~Kron@59.92.183.80] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:06 Oladon [~Oladon@c-98-245-40-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:58 -!- jimmy1980 [jimmy1980@207.204.244.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:01:20 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.238.115.5] has joined #lisp 14:03:15 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:21 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:10:04 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.183.80] has joined #lisp 14:14:19 tony` [~tony@5ac37acc.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 14:15:01 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.144.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:22:31 tensorpudding [~michael@99.160.221.240] has joined #lisp 14:31:17 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206245.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:33:09 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:34:40 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-131-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 14:35:28 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-131-161.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:37:53 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.144.143] has joined #lisp 14:38:41 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:38:54 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:46 chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.74.117.95] has joined #lisp 14:42:46 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.74.117.95] has quit [Changing host] 14:42:46 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 14:42:48 hypothetical question: when using an irregularly accessed queue (the queue varies in length but size is bounded), implemented as a list, is it worthwhile to save the conses instead of letting lisp deal with garbage collection? 14:42:57 i.e., instead of (defun push-l (node) (let ((new-tail (cons node nil))) (setf (cdr l-tail) new-tail) (setq l-tail new-tail))) and (defun remove-from-l () (setq l-head (rest l-head))) 14:43:02 using (defun push-l (node) (let ((new-tail (or cons-stack (cons node nil)))) (setf (cdr l-tail) new-tail) (setq l-tail new-tail))) and (defun remove-from-l () (push l-head cons-stack) (setq l-head (rest l-head))) 14:43:38 Depends on the application, and on the garbage collector of the implementation. 14:44:25 In general, you don't bother, until you have the problem (which means you have the customers to pay for the more complex solution). 14:44:35 true 14:45:10 sytse: most likely not. Garbage collecting immutable data is easier. 14:45:11 well, say I run through 10000 conses with the first implementation (no significant other memory usage) and 50 with the second 14:45:12 *|3b|* would be concerned about that keeping large garbage live if the user doesn't expect it 14:45:51 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:46:05 sytse: and it would depend on the processor, too. 14:46:13 |3b|: oh yes, I kind of forgot (setf (car cons-stack) nil) 14:46:21 Modern processors are surprizing, with their multi-level caches and their pipelines. 14:46:27 yes, true. 14:46:43 and now their multicore. 14:46:52 let's say amd64 sbcl for the purpose of our discussion 14:46:53 Multi-cores means that it's better not to modify data in memory. 14:47:07 Therefore it may be much more efficient to cons more, and never write again to the same place. 14:47:27 *|3b|* might also be concerned about how it would interact with generational GC, if i had any sort of clue what those interactions might be :p 14:47:34 :P 14:48:03 |3b|: like I said, immutable data's easier. 14:48:12 especially for SBCL's gencgc. 14:49:49 The answer, then, is to profile. 14:50:09 good point. Never assume. Measure 14:50:23 and don't fix what doesn't need to be fixed :) 14:51:43 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has joined #lisp 14:52:39 that's a useless cop out. Measuring without thinking or building hypotheses means we can't perform useful sensitivity analysis or otherwise generalise. 14:52:57 yes 14:53:05 that's part of 'measuring' 14:53:17 measuring *correctly* is important and not easy 14:54:55 doing it correctly also means understanding what you're doing and analysing the situation sufficiently to not waste huge amounts of time on useless, or worse, misleading measurements 14:55:16 Heinsenberg docet  ^__^ 14:55:54 -!- xan_ [~xan@193.144.61.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:57:18 and yet, each time someone asks such questions, Zhivago's only response is "to profile". That's only one tiny step which, one would hope, leads to general insights that can be verbalised. 14:57:41 -!- alelos [~alelos@ip82-139-117-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:58:32 pkhuong: I have some limited experience with performance analysis in the oracle rdbms, I know how ridiculously useless or even dangerous measurement without knowing exactly what you're trying to measure beforehand can be ;-) 14:58:32 It's always worthwhile to remember the fundamental steps, before embarking on flights of fancy. 14:58:36 I guess you're right though 14:59:38 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 15:00:22 Zhivago: flights of fancy are more easily falsified than spurious associations. 15:01:09 easiere [5990c050@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.144.192.80] has joined #lisp 15:02:29 So, is your point that you shouldn't profile? Or just that you shouldn't profile without thinking? Noting that the without thinking was your contribution ... 15:02:31 Zhivago: the fundamental steps --> 1) get out of bed 2) drink huge amounts of coffee 3) drag yourself, against better judgment, to work 4) laboriously do lots of things that have become distorted enough by lots of layers of management and financial motivations that they are actually useless or worse 5) slam your head on your desk a couple of times 6) go home 7) drink lots of booze 8) lather, rinse, repeat 15:02:43 Zhivago: those fundamental steps? 15:03:01 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.39] has left #lisp 15:03:21 I think it might be time for you to revisit the definition of 'fundamental'. :) 15:03:26 sytse: LOL 15:04:02 Zhivago: I don't think so, he's right on the mark. 15:04:45 Zhivago: I'd say understand the system and form working hypotheses as to what causes the symptoms you're trying to eliminate, think of useful measurements, and only then start collecting measurements. 15:05:17 pkhuong: In other words, profiling. 15:05:23 I guess it may be my fault for going to work for a company that's had the stupidity to choose for oracle though 15:06:18 maxm: ping 15:06:27 Zhivago: and I thought profiling meant turning the profiler on. 15:06:30 pkhuong: the problem is that with systems that are complex enough, you first need to measure the problem itself before you can form a working hypothesis 15:06:59 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.144.143] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:01 so step 1 is merely defining the problem, not forming a working hypothesis because you can't do that without data 15:07:20 pkhuong: Which profiler? 15:07:23 (step 1 is also, incidentally, where most people fail) 15:07:31 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.91.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:07:34 Zhivago: you tell me. 15:07:48 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.149.206] has joined #lisp 15:07:54 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:08:07 sytse: If no one can't tell there's anything wrong, why fix it (: 15:08:30 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:08:44 pkhuong: The appropriate one. 15:09:02 pkhuong: of course something's wrong, otherwise you wouldn't need to fix something. But you need a precise definition of what the problem is before you can measure the right thing 15:09:12 I think your problem comes from confusing 'profiling' with 'turning on a random profiler and drooling'. 15:09:31 just measuring random things based on some semi-random hypotheses and expecting some number to pop out and tell you everything is what I call 'stupidity' 15:10:10 Zhivago: how is telling people to 15:10:15 (and as I said, that's what even many performance consultants do) 15:10:24 "profile" useful, then? 15:11:02 pkhuong: he could've equivalently said -ENODATA, and he's right IMO 15:11:46 if the advice applies to every situation, it can't be very useful. 15:12:26 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 15:13:37 alelos [~alelos@ip82-139-113-113.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:57 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:14:13 It doesn't apply to every situation. 15:14:33 Have you been adjusting your medication lately? 15:15:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:15:35 no, but mach has been aggravating lately. 15:15:45 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 15:15:46 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.140.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:16:45 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has left #lisp 15:17:14 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:54 -!- Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:20:49 pkhuong: if it applies to every situation, then maybe it's time to start using it? :P 15:21:38 'breathe regularly' applies to every situation as well; if you need to think about that, the advice might be good to keep in mind ;-) 15:22:23 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 15:24:46 <|3b|> sounds like bad advice if being submerged at irregular intervals :p 15:25:55 "drooling" was likely uncalled for 15:26:44 ehu [~ehuels@089144206126.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:45 funny I was just thinking how utterly pointless it is to obsess on the stupidity of other people 15:26:47 Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:48 or to give it more than some minimum no. of cycles period, it being a ubiquitous and default condition 15:28:01 chturne [~chturne@host86-148-233-236.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:53 Its Zhivago. You know you got him, when he starts calling your arguments blabbering, or brings out "do you really know what X is?" "what?" "incorrect! (on a technicality)" routine 15:30:53 well something that should break one off from such behaviour is the recognition of how many really stupid people think most other people are stupid. Humans generally operate at a level of intelligence that is unique on this planet. 15:32:14 anybody work with Sneps 2 or 3? 15:37:25 JuanDaugherty: I actually think I'm pretty stupid 15:37:42 so that makes more than 99% of everyone complete morons 15:37:55 probably close to 100% 15:38:06 but yeah, I hear you maxm, although I generally think highly of Zhivago, that sounds like the detested "can you read my mind" mentality one encounters in the typical tech out 15:38:55 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 15:38:56 well there are objective statistics in some countries, like the NCES's NAAL in the US 15:39:10 *maxm* learned since old efnet days to ignore irc stuff. People can't change their personalities, so you can just as well take it lightly 15:39:31 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:39:47 yep, ignoring #lisp except when convenient seems useful if you wish to stay sane 15:39:53 and yea, if you have an interesting problem or such, some of the more abrasive ppl may actually have one of the better suggestions 15:39:56 people can definitely change their personalities. The fact that most don't is beside the point. 15:40:22 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@85.85-87-28.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has quit [] 15:40:29 I think I agree with JuanDaugherty 15:40:41 -!- alelos [~alelos@ip82-139-113-113.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:40:47 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-003-103.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:14 we say 'your job has changed you' but then in one breath declare that 'people don't change', seems silly 15:42:18 lijbrandt, whut 15:42:35 I've been in their office once 15:43:29 ravster [~user@184.175.28.217] has joined #lisp 15:43:33 Hello everyone 15:43:35 anybody have an opinion on the best generic inferencing package in lisp? I'm looking at Sneps and Lisa has been suggested but it seems to be too minimal an OPS/CLIPS. 15:43:43 yello ravster 15:51:22 real-hitecnology [~hitecnolo@109.120.33.8] has joined #lisp 15:51:39 JuanDaugherty: Have a look at Act-R. 15:51:46 Far from minimal AFAIK. 15:51:58 pjb, thx! 15:52:42 JuanDaugherty: but it may be beyond what you want/need, I don't know. 15:53:30 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@178.74.88.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:53:53 Of course there's CLIPS itself, but IIRC, it has been rewritten in C. 15:54:03 it's Newell's baby? 15:54:48 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:54:59 yeah, I'm already using CLIPS it and Rete alone are not quite what I'm looking for. Want something for general "intelligent" support of domain modeling. 15:55:03 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-235-80.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:18 JuanDaugherty: then Act-R seems like it. 15:55:32 and rete has a lot of drawbacks 15:55:58 Oh, of course, there are ontologic systems like CyC and OpenCyC. 15:56:42 guess it couldn't be since he died 20 years ago 15:56:43 alelos [~alelos@ip82-139-117-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:55 http://clipsrules.sourceforge.net/ 15:57:04 yeah, no I definitely don't wanna use Cyc 15:57:24 right that's the current CLIPS distro 15:59:03 amending: I would only wanna use Cyc as a KS not as something I would base an architecture on 15:59:27 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:00:19 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 16:01:15 mritz_ [~textual@cpe-70-112-3-176.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:03:20 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:03:42 (or it was the current last I checked, they seemed to be pursuing the tired push into java IIRC) 16:03:54 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:05:21 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 16:08:16 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:09:35 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.164.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:11:21 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:54 -!- real-hitecnology [~hitecnolo@109.120.33.8] has quit [Quit: real-hitecnology] 16:14:40 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:16:21 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:43 maxm: check your email 16:18:40 -!- easiere [5990c050@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.144.192.80] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:20:06 fe[nl]ix: ah cool thanks 16:21:34 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206126.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:22:31 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 16:24:13 for the channel, he fixed fiveam to use named-lambda named after test instead of anonymous ones 16:24:38 named lambdas are cool 16:25:26 asvil [~asvil@178.120.164.227] has joined #lisp 16:25:53 -!- r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.35.53] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 16:27:59 r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.35.53] has joined #lisp 16:28:16 -!- r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.35.53] has quit [Client Quit] 16:28:19 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-136-63.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:30:58 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-136-63.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:46 -!- alelos [~alelos@ip82-139-117-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:37:42 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-136-63.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:42:31 Avishek12 [Avishek12@117.201.101.22] has 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has joined #lisp 17:41:40 Xach: ping 17:45:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:52:05 -!- jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:55:36 -!- SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:45 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.33.8] has joined #lisp 18:01:12 -!- help2man is now known as shopt 18:03:35 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.33.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:09:34 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:14:26 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@c-98-245-40-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:25:28 -!- johndoe [johndoe@unaffiliated/johndoe] has left #lisp 18:25:42 jewel_ [~jewel@196-215-126-160.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:26:59 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:11 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 18:27:26 wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-107-73.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:27:30 hi all 18:27:53 anyone knowledgeable about cffi here? 18:28:04 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:28:05 Kron__ [~Kron@59.92.128.113] has joined #lisp 18:28:25 I had to modify the sources to make it compile on this armel ubuntu box 18:29:31 -!- kirin`_ [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:29:41 specifically GCC could not recognize the -m32 option. I think it could be related to the underlying ARM architecture. But tbh I have no idea. Could this be a bug or is my GCC at fault? 18:29:50 why do i get tabs displayed as squares in mcclim ? 18:29:58 what version of cffi is that ? 18:30:18 fe[nl]ix: 0.10.6 18:30:19 like in 18:30:31 that bug was fixed in HEAD 18:30:35 " 18:30:39 wah 18:30:39 try the git repository 18:30:40 sorry 18:31:09 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.131.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:31:27 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:57 fe[nl]ix: thanks, since it's a temporary problem then no needto worry 18:32:15 wakeup: probably a patch is in order. 18:32:17 http://paste.lisp.org/display/130756 i meant that one here 18:32:33 wbooze: how else would you want to display control codes? 18:32:36 displays fine in the repl but not in the clim-listener repl 18:32:40 wbooze: Control codes are NOT characters. 18:32:57 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:06 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:33:07 ah so they don' 18:33:12 don't get interpreted ? 18:33:29 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:29 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:33:29 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 18:33:32 Yes, and how would they be interpreted? 18:33:38 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:38 Have a look just at their names! 18:33:56 And there's no reason in 2012 to interpret them really. 18:34:22 erm, one question would i get rid of them when i saved them into an string ? 18:34:49 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:35:00 Good idea. (substitute #\space #\tab string) 18:36:08 ah 18:36:28 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 18:41:18 BountyX [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has joined #lisp 18:45:31 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Out of this 3D] 18:45:45 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.128.113] has joined #lisp 18:48:33 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@59.92.128.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:49:43 francogrex [~user@109.130.82.223] has joined #lisp 18:53:52 ehu [~ehuels@089144206245.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:20 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:07 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 18:59:24 -!- kanedank [~k@c-75-68-165-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:59:45 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:06 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:23 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:04:51 fredrik_ [~fredrik@vpn10.hotsplots.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:37 -!- fredrik_ [~fredrik@vpn10.hotsplots.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:44 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.128.113] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 19:14:50 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 19:17:11 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@15.97.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:17:32 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:19:46 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.82.223] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:39 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:23:04 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-131-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23:41 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:23:52 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:23:58 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-131-161.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:24:56 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:26:59 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:27:27 zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:18 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:29:22 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:29:28 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:36 Does anyone know of a feasable way to display video in LispWorks? I'm going to be receiving video in the form of greyscale 640x420 frames over a network socket. I've tried the naive approach of using gp:draw-point 640x420 times per frame, which is horrendously slow. Any ideas? 19:30:13 they might have an opengl interface 19:30:58 better ask on the lisp-hug mailing list 19:31:12 I forget that thing exists tbh 19:31:15 Thanks! 19:37:01 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:38:10 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:46 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:59 Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:43:48 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@15.97.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:44:01 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:45:36 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 19:45:42 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-003-103.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:47:01 eni [~eni@95-178-201-133.dsl.optinet.hr] has joined #lisp 19:47:32 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:34 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-131-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 19:53:32 TimKack [~user@d115007.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 19:57:47 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:59:04 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-003-131.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:14 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:01:56 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-28-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02:39 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:03:14 ur5us [~ur5us@223.194.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 20:04:00 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-231-37.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 20:04:18 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 20:06:36 -!- jewel_ [~jewel@196-215-126-160.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:07:05 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-28-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:06 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-003-131.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:12:24 phadthai [mmondor@206.248.143.74] has joined #lisp 20:12:59 billstclair [~billstcla@p-74-209-20-138.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:59 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-74-209-20-138.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:13:00 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 20:17:25 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:17:58 -!- ofan [~ofan@unaffiliated/ofan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:18:38 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:18:47 ofan [~ofan@unaffiliated/ofan] has joined #lisp 20:20:13 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-001-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:18 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:08 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:27:55 -!- pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 20:27:56 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128025056.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 20:28:07 -!- eni [~eni@95-178-201-133.dsl.optinet.hr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:28:10 alelos [~alelos@ip82-139-113-113.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:57 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-151-243.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:30:23 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-131-161.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:32:26 I want to run cl-containers' test suite. It uses LIFT, but I never used it. I was able to load the test ASDF system through quicklisp. Can anyone tell me what's next? 20:32:40 -!- alelos [~alelos@ip82-139-113-113.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:33:09 ehu: reading the documentation of cl-containers should help. 20:34:50 pjb: it should, but when I did it didn't seem to. There's no reference to the ASDF tests system definition file. 20:35:30 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-131-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:35:40 Once you've loaded the system, there's nothing more coming next. The system is loaded, you can use it. 20:36:34 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:34 yea. but I want to run the tests. how do I do that? 20:38:45 No idea. That's where reading the doc should come handy. 20:39:00 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:39:27 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 20:45:23 zhaowang [~zhaowang@ip72-211-220-8.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:48 -!- zhaowang [~zhaowang@ip72-211-220-8.oc.oc.cox.net] has left #lisp 20:47:51 alelos [~alelos@ip82-139-117-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:03 Gertm [~Gertm@178-119-231-181.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 20:48:53 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:49:22 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-001-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:54:53 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:21 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:00:04 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.33.8] has joined #lisp 21:00:21 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:02:36 etenil [~user@93-96-0-153.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:02:40 Hi there 21:03:40 *maxm* remembers trying out cl-containers and there was something un-natural / rubbing me wrong about its iterator protocol.. 21:04:01 Oladon [~Oladon@c-67-172-158-192.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:36 I'm toying with a little lisp reader written in lisp, but I can't run it because the compiler complaints that I attempt to redeclare existing variables and functions, like *READTABLE* or READ. I've put my code in a package so I just don't get why it does this and how I could work around it. 21:04:40 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.33.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:04:52 Unlike usual iterator like object being at "before the 1st element" state after instantiation, and then (has-next-p) and (next) methods, it kind of had iterators at the first element at instantiation, and (current-element) call or, with separate methods to advance the iterator and test if its in the end 21:05:48 maybe my mind was poisoned by using java collections too much, but I found that convention weird looking 21:05:53 etenil: you imported CL package 21:06:13 you need to shadow it, or possibly don't import at all and use fully-qualified names 21:06:18 not that I know of p_l|home, or maybe slime is doing some weird things 21:07:04 here's my code if you'd like: http://pastebin.ca/2175676 21:07:06 etenil: you need to shadow them. 21:07:15 okay I'll try that pjb 21:07:26 See: https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/common-lisp/lisp-reader/reader.lisp 21:09:12 ah cool 21:09:17 etenil: (defpackage :net.etenil.lisp) is implementation dependant. You should always put a (:use ) clause. 21:09:38 (defpackage :net.etenil.lisp (:use)) <-- a package using no other package. 21:10:36 ah I didn't know that 21:10:37 clarke2 [~clarke4@109.76.10.165] has joined #lisp 21:12:30 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 21:13:16 is there a function to check if a char is a letter? 21:14:45 -!- clarke2 [~clarke4@109.76.10.165] has quit [Client Quit] 21:14:55 what kind of letter ? 21:15:12 alpha-char-p 21:15:29 fe[nl]ix: a-z? 21:15:33 ravster: thanks 21:15:34 that only works on ASCII 21:15:52 fe[nl]ix: what do you mean? 21:16:10 ehu` [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:16 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:16:40 *didi* <3 utf-8 21:16:50 bitonic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII 21:17:22 clhs alpha-char-p 21:17:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_alpha_.htm 21:17:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:17:24 ravster: I know what ASCII is. 21:18:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:18:25 but I don't see why there can't be a function that will work on charsets other thank ASCII. for example you could use unicoe char classes to have a more general function 21:18:34 it seems I was wrong, (alpha-char-p #\è) => T 21:18:38 on SBCL 21:18:42 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206245.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:18:58 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-216-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:02 bitonic: if you want a Unicode matcher, use cl-unicode 21:19:16 the point is that alpha-char-p is only guaranteed to be T on A-Z and a-z, the rest are implementation-dependent. though hopefully any implementation with unicode knows é and such are alphabetic? 21:19:17 fe[nl]ix: yeah it probably works with char classes 21:19:20 fe[nl]ix: I thought those chars were unicode, including the double-dots, and other stuff in german and french 21:19:38 s/unicode/ascii 21:19:46 -!- etenil [~user@93-96-0-153.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: thanks!] 21:19:49 anyway, it doesn't matter here, since I only need a-z. 21:21:10 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 21:21:15 what's the format directive that spits out the numbers in english? 21:22:19 ~r 21:22:25 Bike: thanks. 21:24:18 -!- ehu` is now known as ehu 21:26:15 -!- miql [~miql@ip98-165-228-225.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:26:43 jfe_ [~jfe@ool-18bfe75c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:46 hi all. 21:27:09 jfe_: hey 21:27:41 centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-183-40.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:43 is SICP still worth learning even if I'm planning on switching over to CL eventually? 21:27:47 s/learning/studying/ 21:28:29 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-183-40.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:44 right now I'm reading the little schemer, so the syntax is in scheme. and I've read some of SICP and was planning on re-reading (and finishing it), but from what I've read, CL is more standardized (and therefore easier to port). 21:28:50 centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-183-40.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:06 jfe_: SICP is a good book. It helps not to think it's the only source of wisdom in the world. 21:29:25 Bike: uhm. ~r does not insert "and"s. e.g. "three hundred forty-two" 21:29:36 I vaguely remember one with and 21:29:37 hmm? 21:29:42 oh 21:30:02 bitonic: technically, there's not supposed to be an "and" in that position. 21:30:10 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 21:30:28 Bike: what does "technically" means here? it looks pretty arbitrary either way to me 21:30:40 e.g. here they want the "and"s http://projecteuler.net/problem=17 21:30:55 bitonic: accepted English convention, I mean. and I don't think there's a directive for adding an "and", though I could be wrong 21:31:32 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:34 Xach: there's so much to learn! ^_^ 21:31:36 well, OK. skipping that exercise, I don't want to re-write that function. boring. 21:31:58 Bike: CL is specified to use not the accepted English convention, but the accepted American convention. 21:32:25 bitonic: you could hack by adding three letters to numbers with three digits that aren't a multiple of one hundred. 21:32:25 bitonic: it's trivial to implement the "and"! 21:32:28 pjb: ah. 21:32:39 pjb: is it? 21:33:09 I can see a trivial, clean way 21:33:54 acml [~user@92.45.156.33] has joined #lisp 21:34:09 *can't. 21:34:43 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:35:01 for n>=100: (format t "~R~:[~; and ~R~]~%" (* 100 (truncate n 100)) (plusp (mod n 100)) (mod n 100)) 21:35:02 Xach: I'd like to switch my blog to octopress. is there something I can do to avoid duplicate entries in planet.lisp.org ? 21:35:48 pjb: well that's a fairly specific solution. 21:36:05 For a fairly specific problem: writing British numbers 21:36:32 pjb: british numbers above 100 and below 1000 21:36:57 fe[nl]ix: keeping the same urls might help. otherwise i can manually fix things up. 21:37:00 it works for above 1000 as well, doesn't it 21:37:44 Bike: well, you don't have the and for the thousands 21:37:56 e.g. "one thousand five hundred and twenty-three" 21:38:06 I'm not sure what project euler wants 21:38:12 jfe_: best to start eary! 21:38:45 (let ((n 1523)) (format nil "~R~:[~; and ~R~]" (* 100 (truncate n 100)) (plusp (mod n 100)) (mod n 100))) => "one thousand five hundred and twenty-three" 21:38:51 seems to work. 21:39:16 pjb: well, that assuming that they want the "and" only there 21:39:29 which is likely now that I think of it 21:40:06 eary? early 21:41:15 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:42:24 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.57.77] has joined #lisp 21:42:48 well, this is the first language that I practice on with project euler kind of exercises and it's a crap thing to do. 21:42:55 you need like 3 constructs to solve all of those 21:43:00 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:43:20 which css generator do people prefer? I see that theres a bunch for CL. 21:46:40 osa1 [~sinan@82-95.dsl.netbuy.nl] has joined #lisp 21:47:02 is there a way to specify type of a slot in defstruct without specifying a default value? 21:47:15 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:02 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:48:53 osa1: no 21:50:00 -!- tony` [~tony@5ac37acc.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:52 -!- tychoish is now known as tycho 21:51:10 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-235-80.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:51:42 Xach: now I see it doesn't matter because the http://planet.lisp.org/rss20.xml only contains the last ten entries 21:52:18 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 21:53:53 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-235-80.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:35 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:56:13 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 21:56:49 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:59:15 can anyone explain me this behavior of `read-delimited-list` ? http://paste.lisp.org/display/130757 21:59:18 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Client Quit] 22:00:27 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.164.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:01:02 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:13 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 22:01:33 osa1: ] isn't a constitutent character. try (set-macro-character #\] (get-macro-character #\))); see http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw60/CLHS/Body/f_rd_del.htm 22:02:09 er, is* a constituent character. 22:02:32 so r-d-l figures it's part of a symbol. 22:02:40 thanks 22:05:40 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-131-161.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:08:48 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-238-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:12:22 -!- 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[~Alfredo@89.130.60.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:31 abeaumont [~Alfredo@89.130.60.29] has joined #lisp 23:28:47 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: lifetime expired] 23:31:04 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-139-98.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:19 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:32:43 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 23:38:38 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-131-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 23:38:53 could I do something like this: (if (> x 1) (defun func () (dostuff)) (defun func () (dodifferentstuff))) 23:40:08 arrsim [~user@russell.its.unimelb.edu.au] has joined #lisp 23:41:36 Forty-3: yeah, but you should think real hard about whether you really want to. it's not really idiomatic. 23:41:53 no, I mean theoretically 23:41:55 That sort of runs up against the distinction between runtime and compile-time, methinks. 23:42:10 because that would be very strange 23:42:12 Forty-3: you can do it, yes. 23:42:22 this is what makes lisp weird... 23:42:39 Odin-: defun doesn't have any defined compile-time effects. 23:42:55 Bike: Yup, realised just as I said it. 23:43:13 You're just mucking with the runtime binding. 23:43:28 So, yeah. 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