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[~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:56:44 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.105.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:59:57 kanedank [~k@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:31 blar1 [~corey@cpe-75-187-151-213.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:04:21 so ahh, here's a dumb question; i've just scanned over the hyperspec at www.clisp.org, and i didn't see any mention of code commenting. does common lisp support comments? (googling has also failed me so far) 04:04:40 ;; comment 04:04:49 thx! 04:04:52 also #| block comment |# 04:04:54 ...why was that so hard to google? 04:05:07 ...also, is that actually mentioned somewhere in the hyperspec? 04:05:09 Oh, just to be clear, you only need one semicolon. 04:05:32 is the double-semi-colon a convention? 04:05:34 <|3b|> clhs ; 04:05:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dd.htm 04:05:34 yes, it is. the hyperspec isn't great for beginning lisp, though. 04:06:08 blar1: part of a convention, yeah. don't remember all the details 04:06:08 i've been working through Practical Common Lisp; near the end of ch. 3 and still no mention of comments 04:06:10 <|3b|> convention is ; for end of line comments, ;; for comments on their own line within bodies of functions etc, ;;; for comments at top level 04:06:18 <|3b|> sometimes ;;;; for header comments 04:06:25 nifty 04:07:07 blar1: it seems to be mentioned in chapter four. 04:07:16 and it explains the convention as well. 04:07:17 haha 04:07:22 guess i was too impatient 04:07:38 thx again, Bike! 04:08:07 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-221-59.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 04:08:55 <|3b|> looks like clhs describes the conventions too 04:12:27 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.32.137] has joined #lisp 04:17:38 -!- blar1 [~corey@cpe-75-187-151-213.neo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 04:20:05 -!- kanedank [~k@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:22:26 -!- Guest68799 is now known as mafs 04:22:39 -!- mafs [~michael@208.122.1.210] has quit [Changing host] 04:22:39 mafs [~michael@unaffiliated/maikeru/x-7708887] has joined #lisp 04:22:54 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.32.137] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 04:24:06 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:24:14 -!- echo-area [~user@114.254.102.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:24:58 echo-area [~user@114.254.102.184] has joined #lisp 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08:05:40 <|3b|> not sure what you mean, the CL function EVAL doesn't "show" anything on its own 08:06:15 sorry i meant eval and pretty print 08:06:19 for slime 08:06:45 i made a function, created 2 function calls...it can only show the value for 1 function at a time not both 08:07:43 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206245.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:08:24 punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:01 <|3b|> you mean you enter multiple forms at a single REPL prompt? if so, only printing the results of the last one sounds normal 08:09:06 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:09:27 <|3b|> you could wrap them in a LIST or VALUES to get all of the results, or just enter them at separate prompts 08:10:36 theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has joined #lisp 08:11:03 |3b|:i load up slime, then i ctrl-5 2 opened up a new window, then i alt-x switch-to-buffer to blah.lisp, then i alt-x slime-mode, then i typed http://pastebin.com/GHiWs4h6..now is there anyway for it to show me the result of the 2 function calls in emacs 08:11:55 |3b|:sorry i meant ctrl-x 5 2 08:12:32 |3b|:i am very noobie..first day emacs here... 08:13:24 <|3b|> usually you don't care about the values returned by top-level forms in your lisp file 08:13:56 |3b|:maybe i was using light-table for clojure for a few days and got spoilt by it 08:14:05 |3b|:so showing 1 value is normal right 08:14:43 <|3b|> you could either add a PRINT or similar call to each, so it prints the results as a side effect, or evaluate them individually with one of various key combinations, or run them in the repl 08:15:08 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:15:15 <|3b|> 'normal' depends on what you do 08:15:31 <|3b|> just typing in that file without evaluating it wouldn't show anything 08:15:49 <|3b|> if you LOAD it, that would also show nothing 08:15:57 |3b|:yah... 08:16:22 |3b|:so only way is to add print ? 08:16:22 <|3b|> one common way to develop things is to define more permanent things (like the DEFUN form) in the .lisp file, evaluating them as you go, then test in the REPL 08:16:34 ngz [~user@245.12.99.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:27 |3b|:i see.. 08:18:04 |3b|:is there a faster way to do ctrl-x 5 2, alt-x switch-to-buffer filename, alt-x slime-mode? seemed alot of steps 08:18:12 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:19:00 <|3b|> usually you load a file and it figures out to use slime-mode from the .lisp extension, so if you have to switch modes by hand your slime isn't configured properly 08:19:38 <|3b|> and for switching buffers one you have files open, you can probably use C-x b 08:19:54 theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has joined #lisp 08:19:57 |3b|: for me i create new .lisp files to learn mostly...i dont load up anything 08:19:58 example in a typical slime-mode session with two buffers, type a function, C-c C-c on it, then C-x o, test in repl 08:20:38 <|3b|> (emacs users tend to abbreviate Ctrl- as C- and alt- as M- (latter since emacs thinks the key is 'Meta' not 'Alt')) 08:20:51 oh soryr im using windows 8 lol 08:21:16 phadthai:i love phadthai 08:21:27 <|3b|> slime also has shortcuts for things like switching to the repl (not sure what that one is since i don't use it), or finding the definition of a function (M-.) 08:21:36 phadthai:anyway...i have no clue what type a function means..i am noobie in lisp+emacs lol 08:21:42 *phadthai* protects his noodles 08:22:09 raining_ [~raining_@S01060026f396243f.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:10 <|3b|> windows part doesn't matter, 'meta' key is usually labelled 'Alt' on linux computers too :) 08:22:29 |3b|:i am using lisp in a box 08:22:32 yes it should be the same commands in emacs on windows or unix 08:24:05 |3b|:i load the program up, i need to know the fastest way to type in example code from a book, and then be able to execute it,see results, and be able to evalue functions and expressions 08:24:54 <|3b|> shinta42: simplest is just start emacs, them M-x slime 08:25:18 |3b|:thats the repl mode right...i need to type alot of code 08:25:23 <|3b|> which should give you a REPL where you can just type things in and it will print the results 08:25:59 <|3b|> if you have enough code to start saving it in files, do something like C-x C-f filename.lisp 08:26:03 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:26:19 |3b|:i want like a source-code like editor mode ...repl mode's formatting is hard to the eye 08:26:30 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:27:01 <|3b|> which should open a file for editing in slime mode, then you can type stuff there, C-x C-s to save it 08:27:26 |3b|:hmmm i see.... 08:27:32 |3b|'s advice is excellent, then you'll be able to type the code in a file rather than in the repl directly, and evaluate the wanted code block in the repl easily 08:27:33 <|3b|> once you have some code in that buffer, you can do C-c C-k to compile and load the entire file 08:27:45 <|3b|> or you can do C-c C-c on an individual form to compile and load just that form 08:28:09 theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has joined #lisp 08:28:20 <|3b|> or you can do C-M-x (ctrl-alt-x) to evaluate a single form, and print the result in the minibuffer (the blank space at the bottom of the frame where it prints stuff every once in a while) 08:28:38 |3b|:ok lemme try it right now.... 08:28:48 |3b|:thanks 08:29:35 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:30:16 learning emacs and slime might seem daunting at first just to get started, but it's really only a subset of both that you need to know to start 08:31:04 phadthai:light-table for clojure is so much better =) 08:31:24 I've used lisp for over a year and am still using only a subset of both, actually 08:31:29 phadthai:i just feel like reading the book land of lisp..thus i wanna do this 08:31:40 phadthai:have u tried vim? 08:31:40 shinta42: maybe, I don't know anything about light-table, and few about clojure :) 08:31:59 shinta42: vim is the editor I use for non-lisp code 08:32:00 phadthai:ppl rave about sublime text 2 now days 08:32:32 phadthai:cool...u r using 2 of the best editors in the world.=) 08:32:32 I know vim much better than I know emacs 08:32:48 trying slimv is on a todo heh 08:33:11 (an ide for lisp for vim) 08:33:17 yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.45] has joined #lisp 08:35:25 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:37:22 you might already know it: http://bc.tech.coop/blog/images/curves.jpg 08:38:17 of course it's humor, not reality :) 08:38:18 bbl 08:38:20 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:39:37 theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has joined #lisp 08:40:21 -!- auganov [~auganov@83.238.159.24] has 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timeout: 244 seconds] 08:57:05 phadthai: and actually, you want steep learning curves, so that you've learned all there is to learn sooner. But emacs has a very flat learning curve, and can be useful having learned only a strict minimum. You have the rest of your life to learn the rest. 08:57:38 So those curves.jpg is all wrong. 08:57:50 it's humor :) 08:58:31 Yes, that's what I mean. 08:58:43 then that means visual studio is best..because it gets easier the more u use it 08:59:10 shinta42: Type (values 1 2) C-u C-x C-e ; here it inserts in the current lisp buffer two values. 09:00:00 ehu [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:14 shinta42: you can add commands and binding to emacs if you find C-x 5 2 etc is too much to type, but why do you need another frame? 09:00:25 pjb:that will let it evaluate 2 values? 09:00:50 Yes. 09:01:15 pjb:one for REPL mode, one for slime-mode where i can type in alot of code at once and try to evalute some forms or functions and stuff 09:01:37 pjb:(values 1 2 3) let me evaulate 3 values? 09:01:40 Now, you mentionned pretty printing, but you never called pprint: (pprint (eval (list 1 2))) C-x C-e ; printing is then done in the *slime-repl* buffer. 09:01:45 shinta42: yes. 09:02:10 (pprint (eval '(list 1 2))) even. 09:02:13 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:02:30 pjb:hmm lemme try then 09:02:32 Notice that eval can eval and return multiple value, but when calling a function on the result of eval, only the first value is used. 09:02:51 (pprint (eval '(values 1 2))) vs. (multiple-value-call (function pprint) (eval '(values 1 2))) 09:04:21 Also, there's little point of using eval, since it's called automatically by the REPL for you. Remeber, REPL = (Loop (Print (Eval (Read)))) 09:04:23 theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has joined #lisp 09:04:24 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:04:37 (plus some error handling and processing multiple values). 09:04:38 ehu [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:05 -!- real-hitecnology [~hitecnolo@host34.net137-51.omkc.ru] has quit [Quit: real-hitecnology] 09:07:23 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.45] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:10:15 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.144.143] has joined #lisp 09:12:38 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 09:15:07 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:15:40 theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has joined #lisp 09:16:43 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-155-2.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:17:35 yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.45] has joined #lisp 09:18:21 -!- 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[~nonya@nc-71-52-232-124.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:09:42 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-59-201.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:11:52 _travis_ [~nonya@nc-71-52-232-124.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:18 -!- fsmunoz [~user@bl7-184-182.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:16:14 <_travis_> i'm reading about file I/O in PCL, and it mentioned that when calling open you can pass :overwrite or :replace. What is the fundamental difference here? Is it that overwrite does a character-by-character overwriting so if your file is 10 lines long and you only 'overwrite' with 6 lines, the last 4 lines would remain in the file? 16:17:09 <_travis_> i'd also venture to guess that replace would set permissions on the file to be the default for that directory, whereas overwrite would keep any additional permissions on the file? 16:18:16 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@16.Red-79-157-250.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:18:45 _travis_: you mean :supersede? 16:19:16 <_travis_> yes, :supersede and :overwrite, sorry about that 16:19:41 check the spec: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw60/CLHS/Body/f_open.htm 16:20:04 xan_ [~xan@193.144.60.254] has joined #lisp 16:20:35 I don't think it has anything about permissions. 16:22:25 _travis_: we cannot say, it's implementation dependant. Check the manual of your implementation. 16:22:46 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.145.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:23:15 <_travis_> ah, yes, the spec :) 16:23:20 <_travis_> "The file pointer is initially positioned at the beginning of the file; however, the file is not truncated back to length zero when it is opened." 16:23:29 What would be expected, is that :overwrite will write directly over the file, modifying the sectors where the old data was, while :replace would create a new file, and replace the old by the new one, therefore the old data would still be accessible in the sectors of the disk (or if there's another link to the old file). 16:23:51 <_travis_> that would leave me to believe that if you don't overwrite the entire file, then what you don't overwrite would remain. but i guess i would need to check for the actual implementation 16:23:57 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:24:01 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.141.123] has joined #lisp 16:25:04 <_travis_> pjb: gotcha 16:26:09 _travis_: and indeed, with :overwrite, if you don't write more data than present, old data will still be seen at the end of the file (or wherever you didn't write, since you can use file-position to skip around. 16:26:23 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:31:34 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.141.123] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 16:32:10 fsmunoz [~user@bl11-118-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 16:33:12 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.141.123] has joined #lisp 16:35:26 kanedank [~k@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:09 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@nc-71-52-232-124.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 16:40:14 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 16:40:27 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 16:40:41 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:44 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:47:59 -!- pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:38 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:49 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 16:51:59 cfdm [~user@222.235.51.254] has joined #lisp 16:55:11 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-150-240.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:55:51 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:33 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:46 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-150-240.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:00 -!- kanedank [~k@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:04:53 -!- jaxtr [~vazakl@22.50.5646.static.theplanet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:05:25 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-150-240.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:05:45 jaxtr [~vazakl@22.50.5646.static.theplanet.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:48 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-150-240.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:46 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:22:21 ehu` [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:24:42 -!- xan_ [~xan@193.144.60.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:29:35 does anyone have a good guide for writing a lisp implementation? 17:30:08 I've seen lis.py, but I don't know python 17:30:38 Forty-3: I think the general guide is "think really really hard about whether you need to". that said I think PAIP and Lisp in Small Pieces were pretty good 17:30:57 well 17:31:15 it's either porting something, or rolling my own 17:31:28 Forty-3: also there are a lot of free CL implementations including eg. sacla and sicl, which allows you to learn a lot about implementing CL, in addition to LiSP. 17:31:32 What are you porting to? 17:31:43 casio CG-10 17:32:20 I don't need much, just enough to have a working implementation 17:33:06 A calculator? So you ust want a toy lisp, not full CL? 17:33:13 Forty-3: you may try first ECL or clisp; then ccl or sbcl should be the most portable implementations. 17:33:21 Bike: yes, a calc 17:33:57 I want a toy lisp because that's all I have the experienc to program 17:34:03 Forty-3: have a look at lisp-500, assuming this calc has a small memory. 17:34:09 ok 17:34:19 http://prizm.cemetech.net/index.php?title=Technical_Info 17:34:28 lisp-500 is a subset of CL implemented in 500 lines of C and 500 lines of lisp. 17:34:34 fredrik_ [~fredrik@vpn14.hotsplots.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:20 hmm 17:35:52 -!- ehu` is now known as ehu 17:36:14 pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:36:14 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:37:07 -!- metatrontech [~chris@111.95.102.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:37:19 it seems a lot denser 17:37:46 "The original Lisp500 attempted to fit everything in 500 lines of uncommented, densely formatted C code." 17:38:00 I'm worried that I'll spend a lot of time trying to figure it out 17:39:03 Forty-3: Lisp in Small Pieces is a nice book that takes you through various types of basic lispy interpreters and compilers. 17:39:08 hmm 17:39:18 it's not at my library though 17:39:32 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 17:39:48 definitely worth having around. 17:40:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.60.86] has joined #lisp 17:40:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.60.86] has quit [Changing host] 17:40:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:40:11 I have no money... 17:40:32 write a lisp, sell it for money, use it to buy a book that teaches you how to write a lisp. 17:40:35 Forty-3: well the basics aren't so hard to grasp. have you written a simple evaluator yet? you know, the usual (defun evaluate (exp env) (typecase exp ...)) 17:40:54 no; I've been reading over stuff though 17:41:24 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-ybsifwgzbmzzqwor] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:41:28 steffi_s_ [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-hwqfzqezjrsfksin] has joined #lisp 17:43:07 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:43:28 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 17:44:08 ehu` [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:01 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:26 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.50.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:07 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:46:38 Writing A lisp is easy. Writing a CL is more hairly: there's a specification :-) 17:46:44 s/ly/y 17:46:59 -!- fsmunoz [~user@bl11-118-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #lisp 17:47:04 fsmunoz [~user@bl11-118-246.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 17:47:50 I think I'd be pretty impressed if someone manage to get a CL on a machine with 61 KiB RAM 17:48:13 Perfectly feasible. 17:48:36 I was going for TinyLisp 17:48:42 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@089144206198.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:48:59 Forty-3: aim for CL. Just select a subset. 17:49:11 tyinylisp *is* a subset 17:49:23 http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~rona/tlisp/tlspec.html 17:50:56 pjb: any examples, out of curiosity? 17:53:41 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 17:54:20 ykm [~ykm@180.148.60.236] has joined #lisp 17:55:01 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-znrpxbbzgjvsuiqv] has joined #lisp 17:55:17 -!- steffi_s_ [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-hwqfzqezjrsfksin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:56 Bike: examples of what? 17:56:03 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:56:39 full CL with that little memory. 17:56:43 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:57:20 ah 17:57:35 well 17:58:00 if it was a designated lisp machine 17:58:25 then it could quite literally run lisp with almost no memory at all 18:00:10 snearch [~snearch@f053004066.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:00:27 and how is this possible at all Forty-3? 18:01:29 well 18:01:41 Bike: You can write 978 functions in 64 KB. 18:01:45 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053004066.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:01:50 there are lisp machines 18:01:50 if you wanted, you could make one 18:01:57 and have it interpert ansi lisp 18:02:06 Bike: start by defining all the constants to their smallest specified values. 18:02:55 fixnum = 16-bit signed. Bignum = 32-bit signed. (you can signal an error when bigger numbers would be needed), character = base-char = 8-bit, etc. 18:03:36 There are a lot of lisps running in less than 64 KB, and CL is not different from those lisps: it is just the common parts of them written black-on-white. 18:03:48 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:03:59 pjb: how specific 18:04:13 Notice that 64 KB = 16-bit addresses, therefore a cons cell is only 32-bit (tags included). 18:04:32 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:39 You can have all the float types be 32-bit ieee. 18:04:58 You can have all the Nfunctions be the functions (as the standard allows), etc. 18:05:59 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:05 how would you include tags in (65535 . 65535) ? 18:06:08 Bike: and if you want a more precise answer, you could wc the sources of various CL implementations to see what parts eat the most space. 18:06:25 erm, (32767 . 32767) signed I guess 18:06:37 Phoodus: as always. Align conses to 32-bit therefore you have the two low bits of the addresses that are useless: you can use them as tags. 18:07:02 oh, so fixnums would never be immediate values 18:07:06 Now that would mean that fixnums have to be boxed, since they have to be 16-bit minimum. 18:07:08 Yes. 18:07:32 But stranger things are done on 64KB 8-bit machines. 18:08:04 yes, I'm still working on 6502 projects 18:08:41 anyway, I doubt you could even fit all the symbol names found in all of CL within 64KB :) 18:08:48 In one 8-bit machine interpreter, floating point numbers used up 5 octets. 18:09:01 Let me see. 18:09:39 I know the c64 (my primary 8-bit platform) depacked the sign bit out of 4-bit floats when they were in use in accumulators 18:09:43 -!- waveman [~tim@124-170-25-10.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:09:51 meaning there were both 4- and 5-byte representations 18:10:21 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.141.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:10:29 kanedank [~k@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:11:16 And you can compress them easily in a tree. 18:11:26 waveman [~tim@124-170-25-10.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 18:12:06 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:18 -!- DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@184.99.23.182] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:12:20 if you're counting the symbol name size, also don't forget to include all the keyword flags and parameters... 18:13:18 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.141.123] has joined #lisp 18:14:36 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:15:56 Compressed with gzip sorted CL symbol names are 4182 bytes. 18:16:27 huh, and uncompressed? 18:16:34 I said it previously. 18:17:05 -!- ykm [~ykm@180.148.60.236] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:17:23 Notice also that you can encode most of them in base-36 or base-37. 18:18:18 Kron [~Kron@59.92.141.123] has joined #lisp 18:18:22 *Phoodus* isn't seeing the previous size mention 18:19:27 huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has joined #lisp 18:20:29 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.141.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:21:07 hmm 18:21:19 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has joined #lisp 18:24:22 snearch [~snearch@f053004066.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:24:53 Also, usually 64KB machine had some kind of mass storage that could be used: names of rarely used symbols could be kept on floppy disk. But that may not apply to a calculette. 18:25:49 can you remention the uncompressed symbols size? I didn't see it 18:26:05 (third time) 18:26:43 all I see is "(third time)". My client might be getting some confusing character or something 18:26:48 there's something strange. 18:27:08 one one two seven one eleven thousand two hundred and seventy one characters. 18:27:18 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:27:19 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 18:27:50 the CCL irc logs didn't record your previous messages, either. Spelled out it came through 18:28:21 Strange isn't it. 18:28:25 42 does it show up? 18:28:29 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:28:31 yes 18:28:35 11271 18:28:37 11,271 18:28:38 11271 and this one? 18:28:41 yes 18:28:47 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:28:52 Snaffu [~Snaffu@208.73.113.6] has joined #lisp 18:29:05 I copy and paste the number from slime repl. 18:29:08 It's red. 18:29:13 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-150-240.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:29:47 probably blocked at whatever server your connected to, and you're seeing your own echo 18:30:30 it has 16 KB flash memory (really 32, but the other 16 is reserverd for the OS 18:30:31 ) 18:31:23 Buy a Raspberry Pi. 18:31:29 -!- Snaffu [~Snaffu@208.73.113.6] has quit [Client Quit] 18:31:32 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-150-240.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:33:22 i'm so looking forward to the delivery of mine 18:34:56 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-150-240.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:36:03 eheh 18:36:46 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:47 how does one wait for some event in lisp ? 18:37:53 with (sleep 5) or so ? 18:38:04 wbooze: there are no "events" in cl 18:38:13 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:38:19 You can use iolib. 18:38:24 or CL:LISTEN 18:38:25 well i mean in an app sorry 18:38:36 wbooze: so if you talk about "events", you need to be specific as to what you mean by that word. 18:38:38 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:38 say i did a (com-identify) and want to join several channels after that , but for that to work i have to be identified ie. not only i have to call com-identify but also wait until i got the successfully identified message from server ! 18:39:54 It depends on your toolkit. 18:40:03 and i would delay the joinings...if possible.... 18:40:06 i don't know what com-identify is 18:40:13 ah 18:40:33 mcclim frame command 18:40:46 which sends nick pass to nickserv on connect 18:41:34 seems like it would be more reasonable to have the join be triggered by the connection handshake completing 18:41:52 hummmmm 18:44:52 http://paste.lisp.org/display/130736 this one 18:45:23 -!- kanedank [~k@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:45:40 and i'm not sure why i had to double the (let ((frame ....(connection....thing there..... 18:47:12 wbooze: oh, you're using cl-irc? just attach your jjoin hook to RPL_WELCOME 18:47:53 well i never bothered with cl-irc itself, i just noticed the mass join for my *auto-join-alist* is not working in beirc....! 18:48:45 and... you seem to be connecting twice 18:48:56 Snaffu [~Snaffu@208.73.113.6] has joined #lisp 18:49:01 ahah that's what i feared 18:51:15 didn't want to but calling join-missing-channels was not doing anything there, and using join-hook without giving it frame and connection is not possible too....and the frame and connection specified in the com-connect command is in another scope which is no more available then.... 18:53:38 wbooze: I have no idea how this system works but it looks like *application-frame* is global enough. Just rewrite join-hook to work with cl-irc's hook protocol and install it (with (irc:add-hook connection 'irc:irc-rpl_welcome-message #'join-hook) or so) in that first let. 18:56:09 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:58:44 blbef [~chatzilla@089144206153.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:37 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:03:37 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:03:45 asvil [~asvil@178.121.18.80] has joined #lisp 19:03:56 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:59 statonjr_ [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:05:21 bitonic` [~user@host86-133-193-137.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:07:21 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:07:21 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-154-102-105.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:07:21 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 19:07:22 -!- statonjr_ is now known as statonjr 19:08:37 -!- Kron [~Kron@59.92.141.123] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 19:09:14 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.141.123] has joined #lisp 19:13:17 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-115-21.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:16:27 ehu [~ehuels@089144206245.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:26 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:17:49 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 19:18:32 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 19:25:18 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206245.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:27:04 hah now i see it 19:27:42 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:27:50 there's already a define-beirc-hook auto-join-hook in message-processing.lisp for beirc 19:28:00 ehu [~ehuels@089144206245.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:00 but which is non-functional it seems.... 19:28:14 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:28:47 eheh 19:29:02 theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has joined #lisp 19:29:12 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.141.123] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:33 so either that hook is wrong, not called, or join-missing-channels is failing..... 19:29:57 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.141.123] has joined #lisp 19:30:26 seems todo it the irc-rpl_welcome-message way like you said.... 19:30:31 and it should work 19:30:43 but does not 19:34:30 eheh 3 irc-message-event processing levels are given, but actually 2 used.... 19:34:37 call-next method will fail there.... 19:34:49 bleh 19:35:37 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 19:39:01 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit 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has joined #lisp 20:20:44 hi 20:22:04 hello 20:22:08 please help, I did 3 classes with a parent class holding a couple of slot, how can I initialize the parent slot in the child class using different value? 20:22:44 refer to the parents slot ? 20:22:58 how? 20:23:40 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:23:59 Posterdati: Do you want :default-initargs in the subclass? 20:24:07 yes 20:24:16 Posterdati: There you go, then. 20:24:43 francogrex [~user@109.130.82.223] has joined #lisp 20:24:49 I need to mark the object with (gensym "A"), (gensym "B"), ... 20:24:58 depending on the child class 20:25:38 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.82.223] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:50 theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has joined #lisp 20:25:58 francogrex [~user@109.130.82.223] has joined #lisp 20:26:15 -!- BountyX [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:27:13 do you think this program is elegant? in terms of mediocre efficieny gains it seems uselessly ugly: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/program.php?test=mandelbrot&lang=sbcl&id=1 20:27:14 francogrex, memo from pjb: "using format, how would I convert "0x06D2" to decimals?" You couldn't find the answer because you have the wrong notion about numbers. Numbers are not their representation (be it hexadecimal or decimal). They are. Once you understand the difference between numbers and representation, you understand that it's easier to go representation1 -> number -> representation2. Than representation1 -> 20:27:14 francogrex, memo from pjb: representation2. 20:27:59 ok 20:28:22 ^ pjb/minion 20:29:25 v0|d [~user@95.9.238.159] has joined #lisp 20:29:30 -!- gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:31:37 gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:07 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:38:12 -!- gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:39:44 gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:49 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.105.76] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:40:27 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:43:25 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:44:19 theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has joined #lisp 20:53:04 -!- ice [~ice@222.130.132.121] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:56:39 francogrex: Fix the compiler notes and you might get much better efficiency gains. 20:56:44 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 20:56:47 _travis_ [~nonya@nc-71-52-232-124.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:28 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-166.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:57 rtoym: maybe but the code is disgusting 20:59:19 ASau [~user@89-178-164-66.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:59:53 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:34 That's a different issue. 21:01:07 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:01:10 :) I mean compare it with the Fortran code; that is much 'cleaner' 21:01:19 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-znrpxbbzgjvsuiqv] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:28 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-nocsgzjkdtcyudjy] has joined #lisp 21:03:00 Can you show me the fortran code? 21:03:31 http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=mandelbrot&lang=ifc 21:03:46 just as one example 21:03:54 theBlack1ragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has joined #lisp 21:06:07 purzelrakete [~purzelrak@p54BF82F4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:06:16 Why did you macroize so much? 21:07:03 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:08:20 ? 21:08:35 I didn't write the code 21:09:05 but I see your point 21:09:09 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 21:09:34 Hi all. Does anyone use sb-texinfo? 21:09:46 uh no 21:09:57 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-240-137.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:59 never seen it 21:10:12 not in my contribs.... 21:10:14 francogrex: It could probably be cleaned up and made to go faster. 21:10:19 I notice that those who are contributing codes on such sites (like rosetta code and here) are completely negligent and oblivious to the fact that part of the task is to give a good impression of the language to externals 21:10:54 rtoym: yes I believe so; it's not the faster that disturbs me, it's the "ugliness" 21:11:02 -!- theBlack1ragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:11:33 Cleaning up and making faster sounds like a win/win. Are you going to try it? 21:11:41 yes 21:11:46 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-232-69.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:55 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053004066.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:12:26 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-52-218-185.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 21:12:32 theBlackDragon [~dragon@109.236.137.35] has joined #lisp 21:12:42 -!- v0|d [~user@95.9.238.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:17:22 Oladon [~Oladon@c-98-245-40-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:02 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-174.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:19:48 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-174.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:03 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-221-59.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:21:24 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206245.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:22:19 francogrex: If you ignore the vop stuff, I think it's fairly simple and roughly comparable to the Fortran code. 21:23:02 senj [~textual@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:52 there is no reason it should be different really 21:30:57 kanedank [~k@c-75-68-165-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:29 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:32:41 fantazo [~fantazo@user-108-237.vpn.univie.ac.at] has joined #lisp 21:41:07 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-nocsgzjkdtcyudjy] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 21:42:09 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-023-016.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:44:07 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.144.143] has joined #lisp 21:45:05 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.82.223] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:09 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-yxojlpjxekecpklg] has joined #lisp 21:47:56 -!- jjkola 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has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 22:16:03 RomyRomy [~stickycak@207.239.107.3] has joined #lisp 22:16:03 stickycake [~stickycak@207.239.107.3] has joined #lisp 22:17:38 DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@184.99.23.182] has joined #lisp 22:19:28 syamajala [~syamajala@173-14-133-149-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:38 ngz [~user@245.12.99.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:47 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-181-94.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:47 -!- kanedank [~k@c-75-68-165-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:22:57 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 22:23:03 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:23:29 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 22:24:56 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-53-184.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:44 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-216-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:11 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@173-14-133-149-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:19 anyone else had any problems with Slime + SBCL x64 multi-threaded on Mac OS X Mountain Lion? After the OS ugprade this week, slime seems to freeze frequently 22:26:53 hargettp: no, but thanks for the heads up 22:27:04 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:27:32 lol yw :) 22:28:40 hargettp: all I can think of is maybe to try deleting the contents of ~/.cache/common-lisp 22:29:19 oh hey that's a good idea....I might rebuild SBCL too, just in case something subtle changed in an OS header somewhere 22:29:46 hargettp: let me know how that works out for you in the meantime, I guess I'll hold off on the upgrade lol 22:29:48 slime also has fasls in .slime iirc 22:31:14 _travis_ [~nonya@nc-71-52-232-124.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:54 -!- senj [~textual@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 22:36:35 cool, good reminder ty :) 22:37:35 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc1-sgyl27-2-0-cust785.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:41 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:37:50 hargettp: wait, i think i had a similar issue not long in the distant past 22:37:54 and i removed all that crap 22:37:59 kanedank [~k@c-75-68-165-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:00 that solved it? 22:38:14 but that didn't work. little drum-roll for the issue: i had to switch back to an earlier version of emacs. 22:38:26 oy! I'm also on 24.1 or something like 22:38:29 something like that 22:38:37 yeah, i switched back to 23.x for that 22:38:55 can you paste the error output it gives? perhaps i'll recognise it 22:39:23 *madnificent* could switch emacs version easily with gentoo, don't know how sweet it will be on the mac 22:39:39 it's easy; just download a diff version from emacsformacosx.com :) 22:39:50 i'm lazy that way :) 22:40:00 hargettp: eselect emacs set 1; (i win) 22:40:19 re error output: outright freeze. Nothing works in emacs until I kill the SBCL inferior lisp process 22:40:21 lol 22:40:36 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 22:40:45 ah... it was freezing on completion here, i think... not sure. could be something different then 22:40:53 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:40:56 (it's vague, was a really busy week) 22:41:09 no wait that sounds close...it's usually when it should be doing an autocomplete 22:41:33 good luck with it! 22:41:36 occasionally its more random: i.e., I run one thing in the REPL, and 30 seconds later my REPL quits responding (although rest of emacs is fine) 22:41:37 lol ty 22:41:49 but switching back to emacs 23.x was the fix for you? 22:41:52 or not at all? 22:42:47 i'm not on the machine at the moment. i know i did that. however, the week contained too much work for me to remember what i actually did to fix that singular issue. it didn't seem like something i'd encounter another time. 22:43:20 k no worries; ty 22:44:31 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@nc-71-52-232-124.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:44:56 _travis_ [~nonya@nc-71-52-232-124.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:57 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-216-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 22:47:14 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-ttzzzdlpfzfeptqo] has joined #lisp 22:52:07 pbgc [~pbgc@2.81.188.2] has joined #lisp 22:55:58 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@nc-71-52-232-124.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:56:35 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-ttzzzdlpfzfeptqo] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 22:57:57 -!- fredrik_ [~fredrik@vpn14.hotsplots.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:02:56 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:03:35 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.18.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:05:17 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 23:05:37 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:15 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:37 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:17:23 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 23:18:18 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:39 BountyX [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has joined #lisp 23:20:51 -!- pbgc [~pbgc@2.81.188.2] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 23:25:13 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:03 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-150-240.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 23:30:05 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-150-240.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:33:01 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-149-174.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:33:24 Are there any live ltk maintainers besides the author? 23:33:37 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:35:21 dunno, i'm using everything mcclim based.... 23:35:30 at the moment, tho i tried ltk too 23:35:37 and others ....by the way.... 23:36:01 despite all it's shortcomings i like it! 23:36:02 lol 23:36:12 weird! 23:36:49 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:37:12 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:31 i just don't know why climplayer is not showing me any files in the directoy-display pane.... 23:37:37 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-235-80.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:50 tho i even put m3u into the *file-formats* var 23:38:08 -!- tony` [~tony@5ac37acc.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:50 I'm quite confused. Neither (rotatef list) nor (alexandria:rotate list) do anything... 23:41:21 (let ((newlist '(1 2 3 4))) (rotatef newlist) newlist) 23:41:21 (1 2 3 4) 23:41:22 -!- ngz [~user@245.12.99.84.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:41:45 that's what it's defined to do...? 23:41:55 Bike: no, it should be rotating the list... 23:42:05 clhs rotatef 23:42:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_rotate.htm 23:42:07 No, it shouldn't. That is not what rotatef does. 23:42:33 As for rotate, it has a second parameter. Try (rotate (list 1 2 3) 1) 23:42:48 oh, that's the default. 23:42:49 Bike: for rotate, the default for the second parameter is 1. 23:42:52 Yes. 23:43:26 pjb: would you happen to be able to shed any light on this? 23:43:38 alexandria:rotate seems to be working fine. 23:45:27 Aha... it returns the new list, just as I was wanting; I was returning the old list, thinking it was destructive 23:46:57 it is destructive, it just doesn't update in place. but yeah, that's just what the docs tell you. 23:47:48 -!- TimKack [~user@d115007.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:09 thanks, Bike. 23:49:48 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:33 Oladon: it could do anything, '(1 2 3 4) is a literal list, you are not allowed to modify it. 23:52:00 pjb: hrm. 23:52:10 (let ((newlist '(1 2 3 4))) ) is an oxymoron. 23:52:19 (let ((newlist (list 1 2 3 4))) ) is correct. 23:54:42 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-150-240.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:55:11 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:56:09 -!- paradoja [~paradoja@acceso-cmp174-162.lpa.idec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:57:11 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Quit: Life is too short] 23:58:21 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:58:30 Oladon: otherwise what can I add to clhs rotatef? 23:58:45 You were confusing cl:rotatef with alexandria:rotate.