00:01:37 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-otnvkxswecltwqhq] has joined #lisp 00:02:33 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:03:05 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:03:23 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 00:03:33 RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-66-77-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 00:03:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:04:09 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 00:05:16 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:16 bjorkintosh: C++ injects a lot of confusion into OO. 00:11:40 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:14:00 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-166-21-1-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:15:19 -!- clintm [~user@001e52f0de2b.click-network.com] has quit 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the connection] 01:01:30 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-18.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 01:02:26 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:03:20 -!- antonv_ [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:05:01 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:05:57 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 01:08:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.146.40] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:12:43 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 01:13:25 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 01:19:12 -!- jackhammer2022 [~textual@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:20:07 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:20:08 scrimohsin [~scrimohsi@static-50-43-23-161.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:09 -!- scrimohsin 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elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #lisp 01:34:45 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:36:01 Hey guys, any chance you know anyone quite knowledgeable/experienced with garbage collection? I'd love to pick their brains. 01:37:14 springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has joined #lisp 01:37:47 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:38:14 elderK: you picked the right place; give it a moment. 01:39:44 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-196-190.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:16 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-209.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:44:07 was ist los? 01:49:59 sssh! He's a dangerous neuronal-surgeon-wanabee. 01:51:16 elderK: I've heard http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/staff/rej/gc.html#Book is good, but I don't know much about garbage collection myself. 01:51:55 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.251.190.138] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 01:53:14 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.251.190.138] has joined #lisp 01:53:55 :) Sweet. 01:54:26 I've been reading a fair deal of research papers but some of them I'm finding tough to digest; I'm not sure if it's because of some missed information, maybe I have to research earlier papers, which is always a good move in any case. 01:54:33 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-jvycabwdxxenpxvn] has joined #lisp 01:54:54 :) It's always nicer to learn from someone in conversation, you know? If there's something you misunderstand or are confused about, you can just ask :) 01:55:12 I know, I just thought that might be helpful. 01:55:53 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:58:18 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:04:36 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:13 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 02:10:47 -!- iamalexalright [~iamalexal@rrcs-108-178-167-254.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:17:32 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:18:51 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:20:59 p_l|home [~pl@91.222.124.6] has joined #lisp 02:22:08 springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has joined #lisp 02:25:25 midpipps [~midpipps@host-249-102-3-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:48 attila_lendvai 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bad 03:04:35 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:46 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:04 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:32 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-175.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:09:19 Squee-D [~Squee-D@122-57-66-94.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:10:05 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:10:25 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:55 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-155-181.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:11:50 right jackhammer2022. 03:11:51 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:12:03 we've all done that on webcam. happens to the best of us. 03:12:10 totzeit 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[~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:16:25 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:43 -!- coder` [~user@p54918786.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:16:46 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:17:05 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:24 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 03:20:12 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:31 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:41 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:21:52 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:04 -!- RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-66-77-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:22:15 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:23 RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-66-77-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 03:22:49 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:23:07 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:35 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 03:24:54 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:30 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Quit: http://www.cyphase.com/] 03:27:27 Is there a way to put a thread to sleep until later that doesn't involve grabbing a mutex? The only reason I'm using mutexes at all right now is for condition-wait/condition-notify so my worker threads don't thrash. 03:27:50 until later -> until there's data ready to be processed. 03:29:43 You mean not even grabbing a mutex implicitly? 03:30:14 I guess, yes. 03:30:53 grabbing locks is a bit on the expensive side when all you want to do is sleep for a bit. 03:31:17 Is it? 03:32:01 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:32:41 tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.70.73] has joined #lisp 03:33:23 coder` [~user@p549187B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:34:08 Yes. If I disregard the SBCL documentation that tells me that condition-notify must be called while grabbing the lock associated with the cond var you want to notify and just do a plain condition-notify, I get a 4-5x speedup (while still obviously grabbing the mutex when the thread waits, which probably doesn't happen often in my test) 03:35:38 -!- cfdm [~user@222.235.51.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:12 Are you trying to wake up more than one thread? 03:37:10 I don't think, in my benchmark, that any of the threads are actually to sleep, actually. 03:38:23 still the notifies are killer. Do I really truly have to grab the mutex before notifying? It doesn't seem to break anything when I neglect to do so. 03:39:29 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:39:48 Maybe you could write a few words about what you're trying to do? 03:40:36 I have a number of worker threads that all read from a single task queue (which uses SBCL's lockless queues) 03:41:17 if there's no work to be done, I want the threads to go to sleep instead of thrash. 03:41:17 cfdm [~user@222.235.51.254] has joined #lisp 03:42:02 every time I enqueue a work unit, I notify a single (global) cond-var to make sure that at least one thread is able to pick up the work. 03:42:59 I guess I could use CAS to keep a counter of sleeping threads, and only notify when I know at least one of them has gone to sleep.... 03:43:02 hmmm 03:44:01 if you look at the end of https://github.com/fare/lisp-interface-library/blob/master/stateful/tree.lisp how a mixin that implements AVL balancing on top of regular trees takes just one page... I think it's pretty awesome. 03:44:07 The problem is calling CONDITION-NOTIFY if no one is waiting on the condvar? 03:44:15 interface-passing style rocks. 03:44:50 totzeit: the problem is that I'm seeing a serious performance hit because of the notifying, and it gets even worse if I use condition-vars correctly by grabbing the related mutex first. 03:45:46 sykopomp: Honestly, that seems like a bug, yours or theirs. Do you have some insane number of threads? 03:46:06 totzeit: no, i have 6 of them, and I'm not sure why you think it's a bug. 03:46:28 I would expect some kind of performance impact from grabbing a mutex vs not grabbing it at all. 03:46:46 specially when it's a single global mutex 03:46:56 sykopomp: You would expect "a serious performance hit"? Some small penalty is inevitable; it's the price you pay for correctness 03:47:50 4-5x is serious enough to be annoying, but it doesn't seem too farfetched considering the bulk of the work being done involves adding/getting tasks. 03:50:38 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 03:52:07 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.70.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:04:04 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:06:41 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:08:46 Kron_ [~Kron@84.255.129.104] has joined #lisp 04:13:04 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has joined #lisp 04:19:05 sykopomp: Reverse the problem. 04:19:39 Have a thread with no work to do place itself on a sleeping queue and sleep. 04:19:54 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@84.255.129.104] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 04:20:15 Upon enqueing a task, look for a sleeping thread to assign it to, and if so, awaken it and do so. 04:20:38 Zhivago: Another solution that seemed to work was to use CAS to flip a boolean flag that says whether there's any idlers. If the CAS succeeds, I do the signal. 04:21:06 mutexes and condition-notifies seem to have disappeared during load. :) 04:25:00 Kron_ [~Kron@84.255.129.104] has joined #lisp 04:25:12 Interesting historical trivia: 04:25:15 Back in the good old days of data execution, on the PDP6|10 (an intentionally 04:25:15 Lisp-friendly architecture), I represented permutations as vectors of indexed 04:25:15 PUSH instructions. Multiplied two n-vectors in n instructions. 04:25:15 --Bill Gosper 04:26:43 Why is that interesting? 04:28:41 BrianRice [~water@71-217-103-218.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:47 Zhivago, maybe it's just me who finds most of what bill gosper says interesting 04:31:12 Ah. It is interesting because Gosper said it. 04:32:08 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 04:32:22 That is right. It's also interesting to hear how permutations were efficiently represented on old hardware 04:32:53 Why? 04:33:26 I would have expected a typical vector or linked-list representation, especially if you're using lisp anyway 04:35:24 I'd have expected a generative approach. 04:35:46 What do you mean? What's a "generative approach"? 04:36:34 A mechanism that generated the permutations iteratively. 04:37:01 That doesn't imply any particular representation of them though. 04:37:40 Well, as a procedure. 04:38:59 What does the procedure produce though? I somehow doubt you're saying permutations should be represented themselves as procedures (presumably such that when called on some sequence, it'll permute that sequence). 04:40:21 That's what I'm suggesting. 04:41:56 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 04:42:07 Oh. Why do you think that's a good idea? That sounds like it'd be efficient at actually permuting objects (e.g. because fixpoints could be compiled away), but it doesn't seem like a good representation for manipulating perms, except perhaps at composition if your compiler is good at function composition/inlining 04:42:43 -!- EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:42:48 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:47:13 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 04:48:57 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:51:38 It depends on the manipulation that you want, but generally people don't manipulate permutations. 04:57:11 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:58:02 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-jvycabwdxxenpxvn] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:00:20 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:40 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:02:10 hi Quadrescence 05:02:18 slava, hello! 05:02:19 long time no talk :P 05:02:41 slava, funny you pop up, i was playing with Factor earlier 05:06:24 Quadrescence: so are you in college yet? :) 05:07:14 slava, no, I moved away, got a job, moved back and am telecommuting 05:07:56 trying to get my feet wet in formal publications and presentations 05:08:18 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 05:08:46 benny [~user@i577A836E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:12:49 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:13:37 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:14:13 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:14:33 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:17:37 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 05:18:49 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 05:18:49 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Client Quit] 05:18:54 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 05:19:15 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 05:19:33 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 05:25:55 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:27:37 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:28:13 jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has joined #lisp 05:29:31 nha [~prefect@f052231138.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 05:29:32 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:29:45 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:30:40 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:34:55 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:35:30 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:43:53 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:44:32 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:28 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:48:09 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:48:45 tiglog [~topeak@118.186.252.131] has joined #lisp 05:49:03 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:51:25 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 05:53:49 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 05:56:00 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:58:41 lisporu [~chatzilla@124.123.173.211] has joined #lisp 05:58:59 I am loading SLIME via quicklisp-slime-helper. How can I load SLIME contribs like slime-tramp? 05:59:43 -!- nha [~prefect@f052231138.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:00:57 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-24.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:52 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-196-190.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:03:43 jewel [~jewel@196-210-141-210.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:04:16 -!- midpipps [~midpipps@host-249-102-3-96.midco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:06:21 <|3b|> not sure if quicklisp has some way to configure it, but i think you can just call slime-setup again 06:06:22 -!- jackhammer2022 [~textual@c-71-234-45-223.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 06:07:00 jackhammer2022 [~textual@c-71-234-45-223.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:14 lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has joined #lisp 06:12:49 I have (load (expand-file-name "~/quicklisp/slime-helper.el")) 06:13:44 followed by (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-tramp)) and (push (slime-create-filename-translator ... )) but get Symbol's function definition is void: slime-create-filename-translator 06:14:32 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 06:15:44 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-27.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:18:15 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has joined #lisp 06:23:31 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:23:38 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:24:05 quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:25:23 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-cebdnjhnlpwotlvn] has joined #lisp 06:25:52 sigjuice: can you evaluate the slime-setup form evaluate without issue? 06:27:26 -!- lisporu [~chatzilla@124.123.173.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:27:51 Yes. It returns (slime-setup-contribs) in the mini-buffer. 06:28:23 -!- leoncame` [~user@219.142.132.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30:00 leoncame` [~user@219.142.132.215] has joined #lisp 06:30:05 dt63 [~dt@203.39.205.3] has joined #lisp 06:31:21 *|3b|* doesn't get that when trying to load it by hand without my init files 06:31:29 EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 06:31:47 <|3b|> second slime-setup call (with slime-tramp added) just says "Loading tramp...done" then nil in minibuffer 06:32:08 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:32:17 -!- leoncame` [~user@219.142.132.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:34:23 -!- dt63 [~dt@203.39.205.3] has quit [Client Quit] 06:35:42 I have done this on several machines in the past and it never gave me any trouble. I am completely baffled. 06:35:48 sigjuice: I also get nil. does (asdf:component-pathname (asdf:find-system 'swank)) in your lisp image return a path under quicklisp? 06:36:03 <|3b|> might check and make sure it is loading the right slime, and it isn't modified 06:36:09 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 06:36:58 <|3b|> maybe M-x describe-function RET slime-setup RET and see where the 'slime.el' link goes 06:38:08 asdf says #P"/home/me/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/slime-20120703-cvs/" 06:39:29 slime.el hyperlink goes to the same place 06:40:59 sigjuice: does the path match when you follow |3b|'s suggestion? 06:41:02 <|3b|> and slime-fancy seems to have gotten loaded properly? 06:41:23 <|3b|> you get a *slime-repl sbcl* or whatever in addition to *inferior0lisp* etc? 06:41:33 <|3b|> s/0/-/ 06:44:20 I don't get far enough to see a repl. Emacs says "Symbol's function definition is void: slime-create-filename-translator" when I launch Emacs. 06:44:40 <|3b|> ah, quicklisp loads slime differently than i did, and when i do it like slime does it doesn't work for me either 06:45:21 <|3b|> it seems to be deferring loading until you try to use it 06:45:33 slime-connect is able to connect to my remote lisp 06:45:53 lisporu [~chatzilla@124.123.173.211] has joined #lisp 06:46:24 <|3b|> yeah, it it knows about a few specific functions that tell it to load the rest 06:48:17 <|3b|> looks like (load "slime") before trying to use slime-create-filename-translator might work 06:48:24 <|3b|> (after calling slime-setup) 06:48:33 <|3b|> or before it i suppose 06:50:02 <|3b|> or you can add a function to 'slime-load-hook to configure slime after it is loaded 06:50:29 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-cebdnjhnlpwotlvn] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:50:54 nostoi [~nostoi@87.Red-79-154-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:36 That did the trick. (load (expand-file-name "~/quicklisp/slime-helper.el")) (load "slime") (require 'slime-tramp) 06:51:52 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: .] 06:52:15 I can now fire up my Emacs without it choking on (slime-create-filename-translator ...) 06:53:24 Thanks for getting me this far! 06:54:18 I don't think the filename translation is working though. 06:55:09 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 06:56:35 (ql:quickload "bordeaux-threads") followed by M-. bt:make-thread RET does nothing :( 06:57:21 sigjuice: ccl? I ran into a weird issue where manually compiling one of the bt files "fixed" that, never tracked down the underlying cause 06:57:58 mrSpec [~Spec@89-78-118-138.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 06:57:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-78-118-138.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 06:57:58 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:58:14 cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 06:58:28 M-. split-sequence:split-sequence RET doesn't do anything either 06:59:26 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 07:00:51 <|3b|> is tramp-default-method or tramp-default-method-alist set up? 07:01:00 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:01:23 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 07:01:24 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:01:24 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:02:06 M-: tramp-default-method RET says scpc 07:02:56 I can manually open remote files via tramp 07:03:32 <|3b|> and (machine-instance) on the remote machine returns what you passed to slime-create-filename-translator? 07:04:45 <|3b|> when you open files directly via tramp, you just use /user@host:/... not /ssh:user@host/ or something like that?? 07:05:18 doing /user@host:/ is the way, yes 07:05:31 note that #emacs is the place to ask 07:05:39 What cymew said 07:07:11 (machine-instance) checks out 07:07:51 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-oivmvqchaeylezij] has joined #lisp 07:10:32 -!- arrsim` [~user@russell.its.unimelb.edu.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:49 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-141-210.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:12:00 <|3b|> when M-. fails, does it complain about a reasonable looking filename? 07:12:22 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@89.130.60.29] has quit [] 07:13:37 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:15:06 <|3b|> or give any other useful diagnostics, possibly check *Messages* in case they were hidden by later output 07:15:18 gko [~user@42.71.215.36] has joined #lisp 07:15:40 I was watching *Messages* and I only saw two lines pop up when I hit M-. 07:15:42 Use M-x make-directory RET RET to create the directory and its parents 07:15:44 let*: End of buffer 07:16:26 <|3b|> was that on a function you might have compiled by hand from slime at some point? 07:17:52 The only thing I have done in slime is quickload a couple of things. e.g. bt and split-sequence. 07:18:54 <|3b|> hmm 07:19:48 Looks like SLIME does not invoke tramp at all. 07:19:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.241] has joined #lisp 07:19:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.241] has quit [Changing host] 07:19:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:20:39 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 07:21:16 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 07:22:20 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@87.Red-79-154-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:23:01 <|3b|> does (swank:find-definitions-for-emacs "bt:make-thread") return something with a reasonable looking path in it? 07:24:20 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128047225.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 07:24:42 yes. the output contains the correct remote pathname. 07:25:31 /home/me/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/bordeaux-threads-0.8.2/src/default-implementations.lisp 07:25:35 abeaumont [~Alfredo@89.130.60.29] has joined #lisp 07:26:17 abeaumont_ [~Alfredo@89.130.60.29] has joined #lisp 07:26:34 <|3b|> and no :buffer field? 07:26:44 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:27:31 I don't see :buffer. Should I paste the whole thing on pastbin? 07:27:42 <|3b|> nah 07:28:37 (:location (:file ... ) (:position ...) (:snippet ...) ...) 07:29:22 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@89.130.60.29] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:30:15 <|3b|> ah, try M-: (slime-tramp-init) RET 07:30:39 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:30:57 It returned slime-tramp-from-lisp-filename in the mini-buffer. 07:31:04 <|3b|> try M-. again 07:31:25 and M-. works !! 07:31:48 anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 07:31:56 *|3b|* forgot you weren't loading it with slime-setup, and had earlier assumed it wasn't important after failing to find slime-tramp-init in the file... apparently it is autogenerated 07:32:33 <|3b|> so either use slime-setup to load slime-tramp, or call slime-tramp-init by hand after require in .emacs 07:32:44 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:37:07 You have been a tremendous help. I really appreciate your time and patience. 07:44:29 springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has joined #lisp 07:45:01 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 07:45:07 -!- kyl [~kyle_dev@deathstar.tyrfingr.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:45:07 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:45:49 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 07:45:58 kyl [~kyle_dev@deathstar.tyrfingr.is] has joined #lisp 07:46:20 -!- abeaumont_ is now known as abeaumont 07:47:45 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.201.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:48:10 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-rgyxhoioaddztdaj] has joined #lisp 07:48:12 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:49:30 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 07:50:41 -!- jackhammer2022 is now known as jackhammer2022|a 07:50:59 I am too worn out to figure out what I was trying to do in the first place :p 07:55:19 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-159-13.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:20 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 07:58:28 -!- jackhammer2022|a is now known as jackhammer2022 07:58:38 -!- jackhammer2022 [~textual@c-71-234-45-223.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 08:02:35 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:02:36 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 08:02:37 -!- springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:03:27 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:03:40 -!- quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:04:24 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 08:07:48 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-140-189.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:08:52 lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-140-189.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:19:04 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:25:05 nha [~prefect@89.204.137.187] has joined #lisp 08:25:37 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-140-189.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:27:57 lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-140-189.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:33:20 bitonic [~user@host86-154-103-106.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:34:11 nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has joined #lisp 08:35:10 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:35:19 quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:39:01 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 08:42:33 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.251.190.138] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 08:48:10 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:53:25 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75ec86.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:28 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75ec86.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:55:48 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:55:52 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75ec86.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:47 hi 08:59:11 -!- RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-66-77-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:59:28 RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-66-77-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:00:46 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 09:06:12 hi 09:11:08 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 09:11:52 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:16:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:17:50 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:19:52 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 09:20:56 fsmunoz [~user@bl5-62-180.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:21:32 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 09:30:07 -!- sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:30:19 sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has joined #lisp 09:30:46 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-154-103-106.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:32:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.97] has joined #lisp 09:32:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.97] has quit [Changing host] 09:32:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:33:00 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:36:23 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:36:40 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755301.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:11 minion: logs? 09:37:12 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 09:39:23 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-atascygswqdafitc] has joined #lisp 09:39:24 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-atascygswqdafitc] has quit [Changing host] 09:39:24 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:39:53 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 09:40:02 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.204.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:40:52 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:42:52 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 09:43:43 -!- nha [~prefect@89.204.137.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:46:10 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-otnvkxswecltwqhq] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:47:41 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:57:27 nha [~prefect@82.113.121.130] has joined #lisp 10:04:34 enupten [~neptune@117.192.92.61] has joined #lisp 10:07:07 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:09:23 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755301.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:12:35 bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 10:15:27 neoesque [~neoesque@122-116-18-21.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:28 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@122-116-18-21.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:15:36 kiuma [~kiuma@host148-131-static.28-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:18:53 -!- dotemacs [u801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pyprcqycjmsdthdy] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:19:22 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: home] 10:21:13 shanmu [~user@195.110.71.98] has joined #lisp 10:28:50 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:53 rootlocus [~rootlocus@202-159-134-72.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:30:12 hi 10:30:32 do you know if there is a simple way (using the loop keyword) to traverse a list in reverse order ? 10:31:10 no 10:31:16 without reversing the list 10:31:34 The_third_man: but in what way do you want to traverse it? 10:31:43 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.206] has joined #lisp 10:31:44 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@202-159-134-72.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:31:47 and why does it have to be in reverse order? 10:32:10 yeah, I think i'll use the reverse function, that's the best solution 10:32:49 can you iterate over it the natural order and collect the result in reverse instead? 10:33:09 it's a user defined list I use in a macro 10:33:29 http://paste.lisp.org/display/130608 10:33:48 with (reverse val-list), the permutations are generated in order 10:34:49 -!- nha [~prefect@82.113.121.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:35:37 -!- shanmu [~user@195.110.71.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:37:54 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:38:03 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.201.149] has joined #lisp 10:38:53 jcazevedo_ [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 10:38:58 shanmu [~user@195.110.71.98] has joined #lisp 10:39:01 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:01 -!- jcazevedo_ is now known as jcazevedo 10:39:11 -!- shanmu [~user@195.110.71.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39:43 shanmu [~user@195.110.71.98] has joined #lisp 10:39:49 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 10:39:55 -!- shanmu [~user@195.110.71.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:03 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:41:19 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:42:37 Yuuhi [benni@p54839A37.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:11 -!- gko [~user@42.71.215.36] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:43:36 -!- mirTapir [vutral@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has quit [Changing host] 10:43:36 mirTapir [vutral@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 10:52:39 rootlocus [~rootlocus@202-159-134-72.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:54:40 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:57:23 Guest59347 [~prefect@82.113.121.221] has joined #lisp 10:58:46 -!- elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:02:02 -!- Guest59347 [~prefect@82.113.121.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:04:46 -!- lisporu [~chatzilla@124.123.173.211] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:08:29 and1_ [~namtsui@adsl-69-105-232-56.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:44 metatrontech [~chris@111.95.102.137] has joined #lisp 11:17:12 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Quit: kcj] 11:17:19 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 11:19:54 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:29:27 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:30:24 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:03 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:33:29 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:33:43 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:37 -!- and1_ [~namtsui@adsl-69-105-232-56.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:35:39 tsuru```` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-30-70.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:41 schmx [~marcus@c83-254-190-169.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:36:57 -!- tsuru```` is now known as tsuru` 11:37:07 -!- tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-24.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:47:49 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:49:02 -!- SeySayux [~SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:52:44 ripdiskk [~ripdisk@pool-71-189-63-226.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:14 Hello, I have a speech impediment. 11:53:30 Oh, I've apparently joined the wrong channel. 11:54:18 SeySayux [~SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has joined #lisp 11:54:31 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55:17 r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.35.207] has joined #lisp 11:57:54 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-25-73.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:57 ripdiskk: Wow. Never seen that joke before. 11:59:05 Well, the internet is more or less just the same information repeated all over 11:59:16 but, with all that aside 11:59:18 what's up with this 11:59:28 what's this lisp language, and why should I code in it 12:00:00 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-30-70.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:00:06 oh, okay 12:00:10 I looked it up 12:00:17 I've just never heard the term before 12:00:28 okidoki. 12:00:37 minion: pcl 12:00:38 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:00:39 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 12:01:02 it's 5am and I'm trying to find places to hang out because all the networks/channels I've been on for the last 12 years are starting to die 12:01:28 ripdiskk: Lisp is worthwhile to look into because it is one of the languages that might give you new perspective on programming and OO. 12:02:13 I see 12:02:14 ripdiskk: This is not a very chatty channel. Just lisp and no noise. :) 12:02:19 well 12:02:32 what are some things that have been coded in LISP? 12:02:46 and what do I need to compile it? 12:02:53 and, where's the manual so I can learn it? 12:04:01 I'm getting the impression Allegro likes switching the argument order for common functions just because they can. Last I remember, their regex library did this (compared to cl-ppcre), and I think their crypto library had such an example, too. 12:04:08 It's a general purpose programming language so you can use it to write whatever floats your boats. Some write web apps, some write games, some write operating systems. To learn it PCL is a good start. and other than that you need a lisp. Like from sbcl.org. 12:04:18 Now it turns out their CAS does the same thing. Cute. 12:04:36 I see 12:04:40 sykopomp: vendor lock in.. They use their own hash table everywhere instead of gethash too 12:04:48 so it actually has use in web design, eh? 12:04:51 fe[nl]ix: by the way, https://github.com/sykopomp/memento-mori/blob/develop/src/utils.lisp#L7-18 12:05:08 ripdiskk: The actual "manual" is at http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/ for example. 12:05:08 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-rgyxhoioaddztdaj] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:05:23 *maxm* was quite disappointed talking to allegro sales, trying to actually buy it. Guy I talked to was there for 1 week and was a car salesman type 12:05:31 ripdiskk: There are a couple of different libraries for web programming, sure. 12:06:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-131.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:06:32 sykopomp: using #'eq there is incorrect 12:06:38 ratzez [~rz@64.Red-83-61-35.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:44 I see 12:06:55 I like to work with PHP as far as web design goes 12:07:01 I have a total hardon for php 12:07:03 fe[nl]ix: no. 12:07:16 fe[nl]ix: "Returns the previous value of place: if the returned value is eq to old, the swap was carried out." 12:07:17 one time, when we were young, a friend and I made an IRCD in php. 12:07:30 that was uh 12:07:33 from http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Atomic-Operations 12:07:37 more than a pain in the ass 12:07:38 fe[nl]ix: did I misread? 12:07:51 ripdiskk: I'm sure #php will be intrigued by your ircd. 12:09:01 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:09:02 I'm sorry, I didn't know talking about it would piss anybody off in here 12:09:25 ripdiskk: this is not a particularly nice place to make small talk. 12:09:41 There's #smalltalk ;) 12:09:45 serious business 12:09:47 indeed 12:09:52 IRC IS SERIOUS. 12:10:01 hint, mention monads and you can have 3 page discussion 12:10:05 *maxm* hides 12:10:19 oh noes :( 12:10:42 LISP seems like it'd make some good AI 12:10:48 sykopomp: I think you're right 12:11:03 ripdiskk: Ok now you are getting my troll detector beeping. 12:11:10 *schmx* goes to write code. 12:11:14 no i'm serious 12:11:33 ripdiskk: install a lisp, work through PCL, see if you like it. 12:12:03 there's also the issue that compare-and-swap is only portable across all those implementations listed if the place is either an svref or a struct access. Everything else depends on spotty implementation support. 12:12:18 I'll do it later, after I smoke this joint. 12:12:23 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:12:27 I also jumped on #ccl, and rme was kind enough to make this http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/ticket/994 12:12:31 so that's progress, I guess. 12:14:57 ripdiskk: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ 12:15:17 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 12:16:13 pfft 12:16:14 phooey 12:16:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:17:22 *ripdiskk* defenestrates that anti-php blog 12:17:45 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has joined #lisp 12:18:16 well, honestly 12:18:52 gensym: I've played around with PHP and made some really goofy stuff, but what I mainly love it for is web design 12:19:32 like, I can make a site do all kinds of crap 12:19:35 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:20:17 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:20:22 PHP is still crap 12:21:21 meh, if you say so; I've just never had any problems with it 12:21:46 Hell, I've never even met any coders who disliked PHP 12:22:08 like seriously, this is the first time I've ever heard anybody talk negatively about PHP, not trolling 12:22:36 ripdiskk: ... Wow. I have to say, you've been relatively sheltered. I can understand that, because I know such environments as well 12:22:37 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:22:54 -!- quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:23:09 I also saw a tomato for the first time, today. 12:23:15 ....just kidding 12:23:43 alright, well, I can't help but be completely un-serious 12:23:48 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-175.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:23:50 so, I should probably gtfo 12:24:01 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:24:14 quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:24:20 but uh 12:24:36 thanks for all of the information, I appreciate it 12:24:50 go make a rage comic about unsuccessful attempt of trolling #lisp, may even make it into front-page if good 12:25:00 .. :/ 12:25:06 I'm not trying to troll, dude 12:25:13 I'm just generally goofy, is all 12:25:13 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-175.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:25:40 ripdiskk: so be goofy elsewhere 12:25:51 I was about to 12:26:01 I was just saying thanks 12:26:04 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:14 I wasn't even being an asshole about it; I was genuinely saying thanks 12:26:15 php is selected by people who value superficial simplicity. 12:26:43 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:26:59 now, I wouldn't argue with that 12:27:15 Zhivago: when can CAS not succeed ? the docs for sb-ext:compare-and-swap hint that sometimes it fails 12:27:43 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-175.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:51 anyway, I wanna know why every time I try and say ''thanks'' to somebody, or make a compliment, everybody tries to say I'm trolling 12:28:14 fe[nl]ix: the CAS will fail and return nil if old-value doesn't match the current value of the place when the CAS instruction executed. 12:28:25 fenix: When your expectation does not match reality. 12:28:27 because, like, I work with children for a living, and I have to speak with their parents regularly 12:28:32 and I hope I don't come off that way to them 12:28:58 so to make REALLY sure CAS changes a value, you need (loop until (cas old-value new-value)) 12:29:00 or such 12:29:09 ripdiskk: It's probably your parents fault. 12:29:24 err 12:29:26 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 12:29:39 Think of CAS as meaning "If X is Y, then make X be Z, and in any case tell me what X is afterward." 12:29:46 why? My dad's a hard-ass fed who thinks he's hot shit, and my mom's just MEAN. 12:30:01 so I try and be the opposite, by being as friendly as possible, and making light of situations 12:30:03 ripdiskk: please stop 12:30:16 ripdiskk: You may want to talk in #defocus 12:30:30 ripdiskk: It might be heterosexual tendencies showing through. That can confuse some people. 12:30:39 Zhivago: and you too 12:30:52 Alright, I'm sorry for chatting in your internet relay chat channel 12:30:59 won't happen again 12:31:05 -!- ripdiskk [~ripdisk@pool-71-189-63-226.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 12:31:48 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-167-175.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:32:59 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 12:35:07 when someone comes into #lisp talking about sigmatism, chances are they're not interested in learning the ways of lambdatism 12:36:15 -!- fsmunoz [~user@bl5-62-180.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:36:41 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:36:51 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 12:37:38 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 12:37:48 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:41:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-131.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:42:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-131.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:42:30 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:42:36 setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:43:57 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:46:28 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:48:28 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:50:16 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:51:51 -!- Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:56:44 Why didn't anybody indicate #lispcafe to ripdiskk? 12:57:06 pjb: ... for some reason, I always forget about it 12:57:06 -!- cfdm [~user@222.235.51.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:57:31 *p_l|home* suggests adding #lispcafe to /topic 13:01:02 -!- bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:07:51 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 13:09:15 -!- tiglog [~topeak@118.186.252.131] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:17 tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.70.73] has joined #lisp 13:10:45 bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:04 -!- bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:56 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:12:35 bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:15:18 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 13:22:15 cfdm [~user@222.235.51.254] has joined #lisp 13:23:45 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 13:23:55 -!- scrimohsin [~scrimohsi@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: scrimohsin] 13:24:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-70.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:30:25 sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 13:30:55 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 13:31:48 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 13:32:40 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:34 fe[nl]ix: what, would you say, are the requirements for getting a feature like this into BT? I can cook up a patch, but it would be nice to know if there's general guidelines I should follow before submission. 13:34:10 specially considering there's a lot of 'but's involving portable CAS. 13:35:15 make a comprehensive list of those buts and send it on the list for discussion 13:35:50 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 13:36:13 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 13:37:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.204.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:38:01 travis_ [~travis@c-98-244-123-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:30 kanru [~kanru@66.207.208.98] has joined #lisp 13:38:47 -!- travis_ is now known as _travis_ 13:38:57 <_travis_> wow. lots of people in here. 13:39:57 *j_king* idles. 13:40:26 _travis_: most of them are bots 13:40:59 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-229-92.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:42:52 Lisp AIs, to be precise. 13:43:35 minion: are you a bot? 13:43:35 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 13:44:47 -!- bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:10 Hmmm, I wonder, if I could connect a bunch of neuron cells directly into the internet. 13:45:26 -!- Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:47:08 with lisp, hopefully 13:48:03 Bacteria: already done, well, minus the internet interface, but that's the easy part 13:48:04 bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:56 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:50:09 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #lisp 13:50:30 -!- RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-66-77-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:50:47 RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-66-77-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:51:16 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.47.4] has joined #lisp 13:51:53 paul__ [~paul@ool-44c6dbb9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:47 http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/biomedical/bionics/rat-brain-robot-grows-up 13:52:55 Kinda like what this guy has done 13:53:22 -!- bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:29 Maybe I'll see if I can get some neuronal cell lines and setup some cultures. 13:55:54 Kron__ [~Kron@84.255.140.198] has joined #lisp 13:56:34 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 13:57:01 bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:29 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 13:58:52 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@84.255.129.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:59:01 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.139.115] has joined #lisp 14:04:42 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:05:48 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:10:03 asvil [~asvil@178.120.128.238] has joined #lisp 14:10:31 I was thinking of calling VTK from SBCL, through CFFI. Only problem is that VTK is in C++, and has about 2000 header files (!). I'm not sure how to generate all the C interface code, any ideas? 14:11:30 swig is one option 14:13:22 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 14:14:01 SWIG didn't work; it looks like it doesn't follow include files to find out the definitions of preprocessor macros 14:14:04 i'm not sure swig solves the C++ there, but it's useful 14:14:16 but be prepared to hack the source to produce useful output 14:15:22 enupten: you need to manually tell swig to follow those paths, or manually specify which include files to add 14:16:06 So I include all of them (~2000) of them ? 14:16:20 enupten: no, you check which ones contain the macros you need 14:16:27 can be hard 14:16:31 or you tell it to auto-include 14:17:25 p_l|home: Ah, I didn't know they have something like that. I can try that, thanks! 14:24:28 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-159-13.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:27:50 -!- elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:28:37 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:30:28 -!- ice___ [~ice@123.123.255.192] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:31:16 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.128.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:31:25 jcazevedo_ [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 14:32:28 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:32:29 -!- jcazevedo_ is now known as jcazevedo 14:34:17 antonv [2e35c344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.68] has joined #lisp 14:37:52 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:37:58 fsmunoz [user@nat/ibm/x-bzlexkbhgwkpqlhe] has joined #lisp 14:41:56 -!- paul__ [~paul@ool-44c6dbb9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:42:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:43:21 -!- ratzez [~rz@64.Red-83-61-35.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ratzez] 14:43:56 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:47:06 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:47:21 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-pwppwtlzdnverosv] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:48:20 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has left #lisp 14:52:25 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:53:46 -!- cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:53:48 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:53 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-70.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:12 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-70.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:54:21 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 14:54:45 -!- pjb is now known as Guest95871 14:55:04 -!- Guest95871 is now known as pjb 14:57:26 I have two `for' enumeration in a `loop', they are executed in parallel. How can I have the combinations, without a nested `do'? 14:57:48 That is not an option of LOOP. 14:58:18 Xach: oh. pity. so what's the most idiomatic way to have list-comprehension like enumerations? 15:00:20 one option is nested loops. 15:00:53 I 15:01:15 Run-time enumeration would be hard that way though ? 15:02:23 Xach: yeah, that's kinda ugly. 15:03:05 bitonic: (loop for x in list1 do (loop for y in list2 do ...)) 15:03:18 that's really just how it goes. 15:03:32 sykopomp: yeah that's what I meant with "nested `do'". 15:04:08 fwiw, I become very irate when I have to zip lists just to do parallel iteration. :) 15:04:38 strange that with loop's myriad of options that's missing. 15:04:40 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@host148-131-static.28-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:05:01 I don't really see it as missing... 15:05:07 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:05:48 sykopomp: well that makes things quite uglier, imho. 15:06:08 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.139.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:22 bitonic: if you say so. I find zipping much uglier. 15:06:33 sykopomp: what do you mean with "zipping"? 15:06:40 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@202-159-134-72.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:06:50 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 15:06:59 lists:zip(List1, List2) when you want to do parallel iteration. 15:07:17 when dealing with constructs that recognize 'for x for y' as nested loops. 15:07:27 bitonic: another option is to use aloop instead of loop. 15:07:27 scrimohsin [~scrimohsi@static-50-43-23-161.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:28 -!- scrimohsin [~scrimohsi@static-50-43-23-161.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:07:28 scrimohsin [~scrimohsi@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 15:07:36 sykopomp: ah, you're complaining of the converse in erlang. 15:08:57 Sorry, I meant rloop, not aloop. 15:09:07 https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/emacs/blobs/master/pjb-emacs.el#line1745 15:09:08 -!- fsmunoz [user@nat/ibm/x-bzlexkbhgwkpqlhe] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:10:25 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:43 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:10:59 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:36 pjb: thanks, I'll take a look 15:20:07 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-167-175.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:21:07 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:23:13 fsmunoz [user@nat/ibm/x-dmorpteydkxkozjx] has joined #lisp 15:26:22 tali713` [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:21 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:21 -!- tali713` is now known as tali713 15:30:34 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:32:14 sykopomp: what is the "lists" package? 15:32:34 (ql:quickload :lists) gives an error. 15:33:32 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-233-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:37 exactly 15:34:51 (QL:SYSTEM-APROPOS "lists") also doesn't give me anything :-) 15:34:54 I mean :-( 15:37:00 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:37:00 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Quit: ] 15:38:09 ikki [~ikki@189.195.83.183] has joined #lisp 15:41:01 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-acnxtwgkximztbfd] has joined #lisp 15:44:08 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 15:44:30 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:45:58 wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:02 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:04 -!- RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-66-77-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:46:20 RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-66-77-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:46:52 loke: I was translating to Erlang, sorry. 15:48:54 I see 15:49:17 sykopomp: is there something similar for Lisp? 15:50:02 There's always something similar for lisp, potentially. Wishful programming is powerful. 15:52:27 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:53:26 loke: (defun zip (&rest lists) (apply #'mapcar (if (= 2 (length lists)) #'cons #'list) lists)) 15:53:40 sykopomp: that's not parallel 15:53:50 is there a function that checks that a predicate is true for all the elements of a list? I don't want to use `(apply 'and (map ...))' because I want it to be short circuiting 15:53:54 loke: ????? 15:53:57 -!- _travis_ [~travis@c-98-244-123-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:00 bitonic: EVERY 15:54:06 loke: thanks. 15:54:13 loke: what do you mean it's not parallel? 15:54:53 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:54:57 sykopomp: I was referring to parallel algorithms (multiple threads). Doesn't Erlang do that stuff automatically? 15:55:14 loke: no, Erlang isn't parallel in that way. 15:55:46 ziping lists in parallel sounds a bit.. not so much to gain? 15:56:04 schmx: True. I was more asking in general terms. 15:56:18 I was under the impression that Erlang had a lot of hose fetaures, but I might have bene wrong 15:56:21 loke: But no, erlang won't make all of your code parallel by magic. 15:56:44 LiamH [~healy@122.166.44.187] has joined #lisp 15:56:47 loke: otoh I seem to remember reading that GHC (haskell) was heading in that direction.. I could be very wrong here though. 15:57:14 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-136-152.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:57:21 schmx: it does it, but it is too slow at the moment 15:57:46 the parallel stuff of Erlang is less interesting than OTP, anyway. 15:58:07 Erlang got away without having SMP for a very long time, and wasn't missing much :) 15:58:23 Is there a way for slime to tell a remote lisp to relaunch itself? 15:58:29 ramus_ [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:37 sigjuice: ,restart-inferior-lisp 15:58:53 dlowe: that works for M-x slime-connect?! 15:58:57 there's no ecl-fix.patch file for mcclim ?! in the Lisp-Dep folder of it ? 15:58:59 coder`: Understandable that it's taking some time to 'perfect' it. Still very cool direction to head off though. Almost makes me want to start poking around with that horrid language again :) 15:59:09 that's why one of the macros fails..... 15:59:09 it didn't last I tried. Is stassats up to his magical ways?! 15:59:32 oh, I dunno about slime-connect. 15:59:37 that would be pretty impressive 15:59:38 dlowe: I get "No inferior lisp process" and nothing happens. 15:59:59 -!- ramus_ is now known as ramus 16:00:18 symbole [~user@gw.aicas.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:21 sigjuice: In general, I prefer developing with M-x slime. slime-connect is useful when you *must* develop on a remote server, or you want to connect to production. 16:00:24 schmx: it seems more like they need a wonder to get it fast, but lisp happened too, maybe some time 16:00:32 you could save the slime fd somewhere and exec the lisp again, loading swank which checks the fd 16:00:35 precisely because ,r-i-l is so much more convenient :) 16:00:47 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:48 couldn't clone one of the other patch files successfully it seems when somone would it would also work with ecl 16:01:02 whenever I use r-i-l, I feel like I've done something wrong 16:01:29 dlowe: nothing wrong! 16:01:39 it's completely okay with doing a sanity check restart on a regular basis. 16:02:11 it's easy to leave definitions dangling when you just remove them from your source code, leave threads running you forgot about, and such. 16:02:32 eni [~eni@31.44.74.142] has joined #lisp 16:02:50 I think that's it - I feel like my cleanup routines are insufficient if I have to resort to such drastic measures 16:03:01 it's like having to reboot your lispos 16:04:15 one thing that Factor does that's pretty cool is that its loader removes definitions for words when you remove them from their module. 16:04:40 or dictionaries, I don't remember what they're called. 16:05:56 Seems to me like something that could be added to an in-package+defun+defclass+etc wrapper, so those definitions are magically removed on LOAD (with a nice warning) 16:07:13 sykopomp: I had been using this for ages: http://i.imgur.com/jquTS.png 16:07:56 i think that's the opposite of what he meant, but, useful 16:07:57 since demacs's (def (whatever e)) does the export, package is updated automatically, and you get no annoying "also exports whatever" when you remove (e) 16:08:50 hmm somehow I remember it works when you remove stuff, but now looking at it I don't see how 16:09:09 someone should write kill-toplevel-form-with-definitions or something 16:09:35 fairly impossible to cover all the cases though 16:09:39 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 16:10:24 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-27.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:10:42 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-oivmvqchaeylezij] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11:13 wtf who sends screenshots of their code 16:11:16 maxm: you're a bad person 16:11:34 Buglouse_ [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 16:11:37 maxm: and yeah, one thing I *have* thought DEF would be useful for is doing things like this. 16:11:46 sykopomp: sorry, sometimes my paste script fails for some lame reason, so I just do screenshot.. /me has it bound to stump key that puts imgur url into clipboard 16:12:10 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:10 :) 16:12:16 I'll forgive you this time. 16:12:41 *sykopomp* hopes for comments on http://lists.common-lisp.net/pipermail/bordeaux-threads-devel/2012-July/000210.html from people here. 16:12:45 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:14:27 alvis [~user@tx-184-6-177-129.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:05 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-134-25.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 16:15:23 jewel [~jewel@196-210-141-210.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:17:20 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-229-92.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:26 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 16:19:50 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 16:19:51 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-27.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:20:17 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:21:36 -!- antonv [2e35c344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.68] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:22:31 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 16:22:33 snearch [~snearch@f053011102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:22:56 -!- eni [~eni@31.44.74.142] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:23:01 tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:26 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has left #lisp 16:23:54 -!- LiamH [~healy@122.166.44.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:27:48 nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has joined #lisp 16:29:56 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 16:31:28 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-70.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:34:01 francogrex [~user@109.130.36.133] has joined #lisp 16:35:44 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:36:49 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 16:40:40 I started learning Clojure because it's the only lisp that is install friendly on android... should I feel bad about myself? 16:40:41 francogrex, memo from pjb: there's no command, you just type lisp expressions. See: http://www.cliki.net/TutorialClispDebugger ; clisp is too good. 16:42:02 francogrex: probably you should feel like heading over to #clojure :) 16:42:14 francogrex: I find scala quite nice for android. 16:42:34 I find that jvm-based languages suck if you don't already know java 16:42:49 everyone knows java, though, so it's a wash. right? 16:42:53 schmx: not yet fortunately. Someone who knows enough Java and CL can develop an easy install app 16:42:54 the java always leaks through 16:43:08 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:43:32 [SLB] [~slabua@host244-164-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:43:33 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host244-164-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 16:43:33 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 16:43:35 it's not the java part that annoys me, it's the clojure itself 16:43:42 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-166-21-1-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:46 peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 16:43:59 francogrex: An easy install app for what? 16:44:05 android 16:44:23 francogrex: I'm not quite following you here. What is it you want to install where? 16:45:12 there's a clojure in google apps that installs so easily on android; why wouldn't there be one for CL? 16:45:38 Someone with enough java and cl knowledge can develop that without much toil 16:45:44 francogrex: nobody with the ability to make it happen cares enough 16:45:49 jackhammer2022 [~textual@c-71-234-45-223.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:57 that's the problem, why not? 16:46:21 francogrex: Oh you mean you want a CL running on dalvik. Right, ok. Yeah. No one cares enough to actually do that. 16:46:46 Maybe abcl is a good start? 16:47:12 francogrex: why should someone? 16:47:23 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.192.92.61] has quit [Quit: quitting...] 16:47:42 I don't know why would anyone want clojure on android either, come to think about it. even though somebody thought it's a cool idea and did it 16:47:49 why not? we do target linux, windows why not android? 16:47:56 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:47:56 cmm: I'm thinking somewhat of the same. 16:48:00 "we" who? 16:48:27 -!- Buglouse_ [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Quit: IRC FTW] 16:48:53 francogrex: I find lisp a splendid environment for developing.. and having a live image to play around with. I just don't quite see the benefit of it on android. I don't actually do any coding on the actual android device. 16:49:25 francogrex: I just want my apps running. :) 16:49:37 schmx: _running_ on android .. no one really devs on a device, but you could plug it in and hook up slime to your device 16:49:51 oGMo: I guess, yeah. 16:50:12 oGMo makes a good point. Dunno if it is all worth the effort. 16:51:18 it would be a lot less painful than the compile/transfer/run cycle 16:51:18 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.201.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:51:29 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 16:52:18 schmx: true, actually few develop on phones. Through sometimes I feel the urge just to run a few lisp codes while out driving 16:53:02 I s'pose, yeah. I'd be a bit worried about taking up space and resources.. but with some smart shaking it'd work out. 16:53:17 francogrex: You could ssh home ;) 16:53:52 yeah, and empty my battery within 3 minutes 16:54:36 Oh really? Hmm.. I must get better battery time then. :) 16:55:04 CCL runs on Android I think. 16:55:57 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.201.149] has joined #lisp 16:56:24 Oh that's cool. 16:56:52 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.openmcl.devel/7511 16:57:46 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 16:58:24 Well then that's all sorted out. Horray. 17:01:57 >:-( 17:03:23 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 17:04:36 is nconc technically defined to leave the place of the first list intact, not actually requiring a setf to concatenate in place? 17:04:57 the "Description" section seems to imply that, but all the examples still use setf or the return value 17:06:28 -!- fsmunoz [user@nat/ibm/x-dmorpteydkxkozjx] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:07:19 oh, the first example does show x being modified in place without a setf, so I'll take it as true 17:08:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:08:58 I wonder who wrote these imbecilities http://clojure.org/lisps ? 17:09:42 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 17:10:31 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Quit: IRC FTW] 17:13:14 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 17:14:34 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.201.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:14:57 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-134-25.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:23 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-134-25.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 17:16:20 common lisp does not have "true"! 17:16:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-70.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:16:48 They're not saying it does. 17:17:43 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Quit: ] 17:17:49 quite the opposite, actually 17:17:51 Oh, concept versus symbol. I hadn't looked at the bottom there. 17:18:21 -!- bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:29 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 17:18:49 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Client Quit] 17:19:10 ratzez [~rz@64.Red-83-61-35.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:48 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-134-25.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:20:07 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 17:20:08 -!- r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.35.207] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 17:20:11 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Client Quit] 17:20:33 francogrex: that pages seems to have a limited but accurate assessment 17:20:48 k0001 [~k0001@200.41.137.96] has joined #lisp 17:20:48 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.41.137.96] has quit [Client Quit] 17:21:07 k0001 [~k0001@200.41.137.96] has joined #lisp 17:21:12 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 17:23:46 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:25:50 wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:31 fms [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:15 -!- ebobby [~fms@38.111.144.18] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:27:19 -!- fms is now known as ebobby 17:32:22 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Quit: IRC FTW] 17:32:50 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:33:15 tritchey [~tritchey@50-77-184-57-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:29 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-134-25.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 17:34:49 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.36.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:55 francogrex: it seems to have been Tom Rickey himself. 17:35:02 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 17:35:16 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:58 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 17:42:25 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.195.83.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:43:00 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:48:25 what's the way to skip optional args in a macro ? 17:48:35 &optional 17:48:45 -!- jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:49:01 to skip ? 17:49:11 to not passs i mean 17:49:16 There's no skip function in CL. What do you mean? 17:49:26 If you don't want to pass them to operators, then don't. 17:49:26 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Quit: IRC FTW] 17:49:52 (if (want-to-pass-arguments?) (op argument) (op)) 17:51:15 oh man 17:51:55 a :component designator as nil no worky, just "" no worky..... 17:52:33 it expects a patch file and i'm not sure why someone used &key there.... 17:52:35 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:37 `(:foo ,foo ,@(when want-to-pass-p `(:bar ,bar)) :baz ,baz) 17:52:51 (apply op *) 17:53:36 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:53:57 so i have now abcl loaded mcclim, and there's no patch file for abcl either... the cases for say other lisps are covered but either the macro or the pathname thing expects a file in either case..... 17:54:01 lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has joined #lisp 17:54:01 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has left #lisp 17:54:14 tho there are no patch files for abcl either....so it should skip it somehow.... 17:54:48 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 17:56:13 i changed the &rest to &other for the components ..... 17:56:23 err &optional i mean 18:00:52 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:47 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:05:45 asvil [~asvil@178.120.128.238] has joined #lisp 18:07:01 yakov [~yakov@188.162.132.66] has joined #lisp 18:08:43 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Quit: IRC FTW] 18:09:18 djao_ [~danieljao@204.77.214.127] has joined #lisp 18:09:50 Noxious [~arman2024@93.126.31.126] has joined #lisp 18:10:15 -!- Noxious [~arman2024@93.126.31.126] has left #lisp 18:10:18 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:11:33 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 18:12:02 ikki [~ikki@189.247.203.4] has joined #lisp 18:12:28 Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.236] has joined #lisp 18:16:56 Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:19:09 nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has joined #lisp 18:21:52 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:51 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.152] has joined #lisp 18:26:53 paul0 [~paul0@186.222.48.210] has joined #lisp 18:28:30 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:32:31 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:53 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@p5B0C1268.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:36:44 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:37:01 svedubois [~Sven@xdsl-188-155-123-49.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 18:42:58 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:44:18 iamalexalright [~iamalexal@user-3c2h6hl.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 18:46:52 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-27.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:49:09 -!- AdmiralBumbleBee [~AdmiralBu@pool-108-9-57-130.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:51:47 wbooze: in the event that nothing is passed, &rest and &optional should both end up as empty-list, so I don't think that's the change you want 18:53:32 -!- svedubois [~Sven@xdsl-188-155-123-49.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:54:17 hmmmmm 18:54:48 now i get multple components were given the same name nil error 18:55:10 so ..... 18:55:33 -!- paul0 [~paul0@186.222.48.210] has quit [Quit: paul0] 18:55:44 make-pathname already defaults to :name nil when the keyword :name is not given explicitly..... 18:56:00 and i don't know what is failing....in the case of abcl 18:56:16 other lisps don't complain about it.... 18:57:05 hmmm, maybe the loop facility is the culprit there.... 18:57:59 wbooze: have you tried it with ecl? ecl is very picky about loop syntax 18:58:25 yes, ecl is already complaining at other stages.... 18:59:48 and quicklisp is totally failing for xcl, don't know why, it loads and so, but ql:system-apropos returns nothing on several queries i tried...and none of the other ql functions seems to work too.... 19:00:12 i mean they just return nil...... 19:00:13 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-141-210.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:00:20 heh 19:01:57 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:17 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-134-25.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:43 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-134-25.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 19:03:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.203.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:03:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:03:39 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:13 wbooze: have you tried, like, debugging? 19:04:40 let's not get crazy, now 19:05:02 Oops, sorry. 19:06:29 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:07:14 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-134-25.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:08:10 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 19:09:12 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.134.254] has joined #lisp 19:10:38 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:10:48 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: bye] 19:11:17 francogrex [~user@109.130.36.133] has joined #lisp 19:14:53 ispolin [cfef3ef4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.239.62.244] has joined #lisp 19:15:02 is "GRAY" the package name or "GRAY-STREAMS" ? 19:17:34 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-50-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:23 implementation dependant. 19:18:29 use trivial-gray-streams instead. 19:18:45 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:56 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:19:08 oh 19:19:12 ok 19:20:36 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:21:03 I can't do it, it's stronger than me, for the second time I try Clojure and I feel like throwing up (no kidding), I'd rather learn brainfuck 19:21:19 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:31 Clojure had some fun things. Adapters were nice. What kills it for me is the JVM dependence. 19:24:03 that in addition... anyway. :-( 19:26:12 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:27:15 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:24 r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.35.207] has joined #lisp 19:30:12 -!- r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.35.207] has quit [Client Quit] 19:30:37 fsmunoz [~user@bl5-62-180.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:31:18 r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.35.207] has joined #lisp 19:32:13 is there a some kind of standards compliance matrix or overview for an ansi test suite? 19:32:25 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:32:42 guaqua: there's a partial test suite but I don't know if there's a matrix for it. 19:32:53 I actually haven't heard of anyone running it in a while, aside from ABCL 19:33:24 okay. i'm guessing you are referring to ansi-test by paul dietz? 19:33:31 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:55 yes 19:37:39 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 19:37:47 There's no know compliance matrix, because basically all implementations aim to be fully compliant. There's no "optional" SRFIs like in scheme (which is indeed quite a sparse matrix!). Even with CL libraries, eg. in quicklisp, most of them run on most implementations. 19:38:28 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:38:31 most libraries employ a level of glue to hide implementation specific details. 19:38:46 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:39:12 Yes. And since most extensions are provided by most implementations (even if in implementation specific ways), most libraries can still run on most implementations, using those portability libraries. 19:39:31 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:39:47 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:50 -!- ratzez [~rz@64.Red-83-61-35.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ratzez] 19:40:51 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:45:24 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:46:08 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:54 the ansi test suite contains tests for implementations that aren't quite there yet... which is *rare* 19:51:16 AFAIK ABCL is also 100% compliant or close, ECL similarly, right? 19:51:37 Yes. 19:51:41 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:52:18 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-27.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:52:41 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:26 that leaves... XCL, which is barely heard of 19:54:31 (and GCL, which is dead) 19:55:05 the test suite is incomplete and no implementation is 100% 19:55:21 heh 19:55:29 most of the time, though, it's alright 19:55:31 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@50-77-184-57-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 19:55:41 Xach got a closer look because of Quicklisp :) 19:55:56 (which also helped to drive compatibility closer, iirc) 19:56:05 *Xach* hopes so 19:56:22 BeWhy_ [~chatzilla@c-76-124-138-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:36 well, iirc ABCL used the "most downloaded packages" list a lot 19:56:45 saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA10DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:56 *Xach* needs to update that list 19:58:12 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:59:12 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:55 p_l|home: yup. we do. 20:00:07 p_l|home: to find issues, not to test compliance. 20:00:26 p_l|home: we think we're compliant, but that doesn't mean 'useable'. 20:00:40 useable means you have the same quirks as others. 20:01:30 hmm 20:01:54 ie being able to run most software. 20:02:13 hmm? 20:02:20 Xach: hi! 20:02:23 how are you? 20:02:26 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:56 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.36.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:59 *Xach* is ready for a few days of rest 20:03:17 ah. so am I. planning to go on a holiday? 20:03:49 Nope, just a weekend. 20:04:02 -!- EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:34 *Xach* might hack a bit, more likely will haul trash & recycling to the dump 20:04:44 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:05:46 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:52 -!- yakov [~yakov@188.162.132.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:06:14 ah. one with a lot of travelling for me. 20:06:29 I definitely won't hack. 20:06:50 ikki [~ikki@189.247.203.4] has joined #lisp 20:07:47 -!- kanru [~kanru@66.207.208.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:09:24 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA10DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:09:49 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:56 kanru [~kanru@66.207.208.98] has joined #lisp 20:10:37 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-134-25.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 20:11:14 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:12:06 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-134-25.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:06 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.203.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:12:16 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-134-25.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 20:12:21 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:14:53 ikki [~ikki@189.247.203.4] has joined #lisp 20:15:07 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-166-21-1-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:16:18 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-166-21-1-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:53 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:19:03 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:58 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:46 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:47 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:22:47 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 20:24:13 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:24:28 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:25:38 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:18 dl [~download@dhcp154.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 20:28:17 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:28:49 camurp0 [~chris@173.80.234.65] has joined #lisp 20:29:15 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:29:52 -!- camurp0 [~chris@173.80.234.65] has quit [Client Quit] 20:31:00 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:31:18 is it possible to define conditional package dependencies in asdf ? 20:31:40 No. 20:31:47 yakov_ [~yakov@188.162.132.66] has joined #lisp 20:31:51 oh ok 20:31:52 ASDF only allows for component dependencies, not for package dependencies. 20:32:01 Notice that package can have circular dependencies. 20:32:05 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:21 so i mean then components..... 20:32:58 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-28-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:33:38 where in the case of ecl say it should not depend on some component but it should depend for the rest of cases ....something like that..... 20:33:39 You can, but it doesn't work well with things like quicklisp. 20:33:45 ah ok 20:34:13 If that's per implementation, yes, you can do #+ecl (:file "for-ecl") 20:34:40 camurp0 [~chris@173-80-234-65-krmt.atw.dyn.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:30 nah it's one gobbly defsystem spec where the components are listed alltogether..... 20:37:31 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:37:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-70.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:43 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:31 -!- coder` [~user@p549187B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:51 -!- BeWhy_ [~chatzilla@c-76-124-138-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713225625]] 20:40:52 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:56 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:43 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:41:52 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:26 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 20:44:32 tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:41 EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 20:45:37 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-28-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:20 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:48:03 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:10 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-136-152.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:51:05 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053011102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:53:37 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:54:37 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:23 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:00:03 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00:30 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:01:15 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:20 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable063.5-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:03:07 Wazzup guys. So I finally decided to try this Twitter thing: https://twitter.com/HexstreamSoft Hopefully some of you will find some of my tweets relevant and interesting. 21:03:42 the first rule of fight club, is never speak about fight club. 21:04:04 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:19 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:07:00 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:07:57 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:33 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 21:12:05 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 21:12:29 mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-148-228.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 21:12:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-148-228.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Changing host] 21:12:30 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:13:22 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:14:11 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:16 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.41.137.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:15:24 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:15:39 -!- r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.35.207] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 21:16:53 bitonic [~user@host86-154-103-106.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:19:51 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:19:52 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.128.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:21:01 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:45 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-154-103-106.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:15 bitonic [~user@host86-154-103-106.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:34 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-154-103-106.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:00 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:35 bitonic [~user@host86-154-103-106.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:36 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.134.254] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 21:26:30 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:26:37 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:30 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:07 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@p5B0C1268.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:32:16 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-134-25.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:32:20 syamajal_ [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-134-25.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 21:32:34 -!- syamajal_ [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-134-25.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:25 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-50-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:34:53 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host113-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:35:13 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:37:24 AdmiralBumbleB-1 [~AdmiralBu@pool-108-9-57-130.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:24 -!- sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:21 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 21:41:34 Posterdati [~tapioca@host113-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:41:37 -!- joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:42:26 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:42:31 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:43:08 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:08 -!- AdmiralBumbleB-1 is now known as AdmiralBumbleBee 21:48:46 adam7504 [~adam@host109-152-192-50.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:49:47 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@84.255.140.198] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:10 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128047225.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:51:15 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-152.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:53:31 fucking shit! 21:53:35 i started ecl and it locked all of my .sbclrc things 21:54:11 try to stop ecl 21:54:15 Lesson learned: Don't use ECL? ;P It seems to have/cause its share of problems. 21:54:38 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:55:31 locked? 21:57:21 fsmunoz: cool stuff re abcl 21:57:25 -!- jackhammer2022 is now known as jackhammer|AFK 21:59:11 heh 21:59:14 -!- Squee-D [~Squee-D@122-57-66-94.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #lisp 21:59:36 try it, when it's buggy and you run it and try to run another lisp beneath it ........ 21:59:43 heh 22:01:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:02:11 -!- djao_ [~danieljao@204.77.214.127] has quit [Quit: djao_] 22:02:13 homie: on the other hand there is a probability you are doing something wrong 22:04:21 wth would i be doing wrong when i was starting another instance of sbcl from the commandline and it still would not start ? 22:04:40 tho there was no change to anything ? only a running ecl on emacs..... 22:04:54 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:04:56 until i killed that one....nothing worked.... 22:06:54 windows or unix? 22:07:07 homie: you are on? 22:07:07 -!- adam7504 [~adam@host109-152-192-50.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:07:08 linux 22:07:28 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-130.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:55 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 22:09:05 ameoba [~sean@c-24-22-33-249.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:24 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 22:09:48 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 22:10:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-131.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:11:11 -!- dl [~download@dhcp154.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:11:24 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@188.162.132.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:12:17 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:12:46 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:13:33 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 22:14:00 adam7504 [~adam@host109-152-192-50.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:07 -!- iamalexalright [~iamalexal@user-3c2h6hl.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:06 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:15:16 homie: i will try to start ecl and then sbcl 22:16:45 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:17:33 i'm not sure why it was locked, it said me something about .#read-eval thing but mine was already working within sbcl....and then even setting that back to t did not solve the problem so something else must have been broken and what i really don't get is why would a program started from within another tty even get influenced..... so something much at deeper levels..... 22:17:51 once i killed it in emacs like i said, all was fine again.... 22:18:43 sbcl could not find neither asdf nor ql by the way while it was running..... 22:18:57 maybe it spread it's readtable ...... 22:18:59 Xach: ty :) 22:19:03 but even onto a tty ? 22:19:11 bleh 22:20:36 Xach: it was quite interesting, especially since I have close to none background in Java. 22:21:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-131.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:21:41 homie: I can run ecl and after that sbcl on different tty 22:22:06 -!- hswe [~hswe@blackhole.space150.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:20 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:23:28 my sbcl was started from within emacs as was ecl, then i started another instance of sbcl from terminal, and it was borked, then i killed the one sbcl from emacs, then tried to restart sbcl from within emacs, the M-x way was ok first, but not the comint-run way then both were broken all of a sudden..... 22:23:49 and the one from the commandline did not recover too.... 22:23:54 weird..... 22:24:20 happens 22:24:22 travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:23 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 22:24:25 travis__ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:31 -!- travis__ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:24:37 -!- travis_ is now known as _traivs_ 22:24:40 -!- _traivs_ is now known as _travis_ 22:25:28 adam7504_ [~adam@host31-54-1-252.range31-54.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:45 italic [~em@unaffiliated/italic] has joined #lisp 22:27:14 -!- adam7504_ [~adam@host31-54-1-252.range31-54.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:27:40 -!- adam7504 [~adam@host109-152-192-50.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:28:14 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 22:30:29 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-233-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:32:25 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-136-152.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:38:03 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:39:22 Sorella [~quildreen@189-13-90-225.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 22:39:23 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@189-13-90-225.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 22:39:23 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 22:41:33 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:21 If one is implementing CL would be reasonable to start with these primitives http://hyperpolyglot.org/lisp#ten-primitives 22:43:05 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 22:44:22 <|3b|> if you just want to implement a toy lisp those might be reasonable, for implementing a CL, might as well just start with the 'special forms' defined by CL 22:45:19 <|3b|> and various low-level functions implemented in some host language 22:45:37 <|3b|> (or with compiler tricks) 22:46:23 probably a lot longer before you have something working with that route though 22:46:38 <|3b|> which route? 22:46:47 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:51:29 <|3b|> and actually you can skip a bunch of the CL special forms just for getting started 22:52:02 <|3b|> probably something like LET, SETQ, TAGBODY, GO, IF, PROGN, QUOTE 22:52:34 <|3b|> maybe LABELS, MACROLET, SYMBOL-MACROLET 22:55:18 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:25 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:58:28 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:58:32 *|3b|* writes pretty primitive compilers though, so might not be the best source of advice :) 23:00:39 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-46-38.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:04 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-25-73.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:02:11 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-acnxtwgkximztbfd] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 23:02:23 joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has joined #lisp 23:02:45 <|3b|> some of it also depends on what you are targetting, might be fastest to just pick whatever looks easiest to implement, then order stuff after that by what is most annoying to not have when you try to use what you have so far :) 23:04:28 -!- _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:00 |3b|: sorry went AFK there 23:05:40 I thought the 10 primitives looked reasonably achievable in a shortish time frame 23:06:21 giving the possibility of implementing in Lisp a lot sooner 23:07:05 Might be better learning route as well, always nice to see results sooner rather than later 23:07:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:58 <|3b|> well, depending on the target, you might be able to define a bunch of binary arithmetic ops, and be able to use it as a calculator pretty quickly :) 23:08:49 <|3b|> then add a simple compiler pass (basically hard coded compiler macros) to expand multiple arg versions to a series of binary ops 23:10:50 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.47.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:10:53 I'll play around and see where I can get 23:11:25 <|3b|> yeah, probably interesting to try whichever way you go, you just get a different set of stuff to play with to start out :) 23:11:51 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 23:12:07 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable063.5-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 23:13:59 *|3b|* goes back to writing primitives for my current toy CL-like 23:14:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-131.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:46 <|3b|> (which probably won't even have half of those primitives :) 23:15:17 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:18:10 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:23:46 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-154-103-106.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:25:29 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:10 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:47:55 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-50-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:50:28 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75ec86.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:50:37 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Quit: Life is too short] 23:52:54 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 23:58:57 peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp