00:01:06 Forty-3: the CLHS is basically the only reference. you could use CLtL2, maybe, but it's outdated. 00:01:22 aww 00:01:40 -!- ez271 [506d3e82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.109.62.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:01:48 it doesn't even list all the oporations format can do in one place 00:01:59 *oparation 00:02:05 clhs 22.3 00:02:05 Formatted Output: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_c.htm 00:02:14 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-168-12.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:02:42 wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:36 I know 00:04:39 however 00:04:50 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 00:04:58 it's not oriented at someone who has no idea what the various stuff does 00:05:12 Explain? 00:05:18 for example, the other day, I was wondering what ~: did 00:05:27 Ah. Yes, it can be a bit tedious. 00:05:48 I still don't know 00:05:51 But there are only nine pages there, it's not too bad. 00:06:09 there's no quick-access table that says what characters do what 00:06:21 No. 00:06:26 Forty-3: if you use SLIME there is C-c C-d ~ bound to common-lisp-hyperspec-format 00:06:35 ~: is meaningless by itself, anyway, : is a modifier. 00:06:50 daimrod: yes, but I don't like emacs all that much 00:06:59 it's too complex for my needs... 00:07:58 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 00:08:31 Kwucks [ca091892@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.9.24.146] has joined #lisp 00:08:41 well, you wanted a quick-access to format control strings. Emacs has it. 00:08:47 Forty-3: You're needs will grow. Learn to <3 emacs. ;^) 00:08:53 Your* 00:08:55 -!- sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:09:10 didi: atm, I just need :wq and :q! 00:09:23 I see. 00:09:31 Forty-3: in the section, there is «A directive consists of a tilde, optional prefix parameters separated by commas, optional colon and at-sign modifiers, and a single character indicating what kind of directive this is». Hopefully that answers your question. 00:09:35 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:09:50 Bike: wtf is «A 00:10:12 Forty-3: that's an open quotation mark, followed by capital a. 00:10:12 «» are quotation marks, if that's what you mean. 00:10:22 umm 00:10:25 I don't 00:10:39 are you using "smart quotes" 00:10:51 "A directive consists of a tilde, optional prefix parameters separated by commas, optional colon and at-sign modifiers, and a single character indicating what kind of directive this is 00:10:53 Forty-3: no. 00:11:04 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:11:04 They're called guillemets, but I don't think that's important 00:11:04 hmm 00:11:35 -!- harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:11:37 ok... 00:11:52 so what was with the Â, though? 00:12:27 Forty-3: issue on your end. 00:12:35 improper display, don't worry about it. The point is that ~: isn't a directive, it's a modifier to a directive. so for example, the format string "~:c ~c" is two directives, a colon-modified c and a regular c. 00:12:37 Forty-3: l1sp.org/cl/~: 00:12:41 ok 00:13:05 that makes more sense 00:13:36 Forty-3: if you're going to be emacs-phobic, you're going to have a harder time than everyone else here, and you'll have to compensate for that somehow. 00:13:45 you may force me to write some documentation... 00:13:55 sykopomp: I'm not emacsphobic 00:14:06 I just have to reason to install a second OS 00:14:23 ILC'2012 has extended its deadline -- send your article abstracts before Aug 5! http://international-lisp-conference.org/2012/index.html 00:14:31 Forty-3: so you're emacsphobic and like being clever about it. My point stands. 00:14:52 :P 00:15:13 Forty-3: that's an interesting way of asking for help you got here. 00:15:49 there's a subtle difference between "I'm afraid of black people," and "I don't live near any black people, and I'm not going to any time soon" 00:15:52 Also, Boston Lisp Meeting next Tuesday at MIT. Lightning talks. 00:16:12 Forty-3: Really? 00:16:15 yes 00:16:27 Fare: will you fly me to Boston if I promise to behave? :) 00:16:47 *Forty-3* should ride the train 00:17:15 -!- fsmunoz [~user@bl5-62-180.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:17:49 hmm 00:22:10 Forty-3: emacs is what fills the gigantic gap between stone age text editors, and the rube goldberg machines called IDEs, its a perfectly balanced weapon in the right hands 00:24:04 data-mage_ [~data-mage@c-69-249-253-220.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:04 -!- data-mage__ [~data-mage@c-69-249-253-220.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:24:06 what does emac's have that vi + screens does'nt? 00:24:19 *doesn't 00:24:28 everything vi + screen doesn't have 00:24:30 emacs has 00:24:35 http://randex.apearl.net/tools.php?itemno=0&listno=humorix&op=File_browse 00:24:59 AdmiralBumbleBee: emacs is a great os, lacking only a decent text editor 00:25:04 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-110-78.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:25:15 Forty-3: That's not true *at all*. 00:25:17 Forty-3: ohhh, I've not heard that one (in 20 years) 00:25:26 AdmiralBumbleBee: :P 00:25:28 :P 00:25:38 anyway 00:25:52 only kde rivals emacs in terms of bloat 00:25:52 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-110-78.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:25:59 Forty-3: Dude, stop. 00:26:06 fine 00:26:06 Forty-3: what he said. 00:26:44 anyway... 00:27:01 Forty-3: if you want to be irritating, please use *your own time* to learn how to browse clhs manually, use l1sp.org, readline, and grep. 00:27:15 sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has joined #lisp 00:27:53 and don't complain that we haven't all spent our time trying to make something else work better *for you* when we already have a tool that does more than all of the above. 00:28:02 yes, I know 00:28:49 Forty-3: sudo apt-get install hyperspec 00:28:59 I use fedora :P 00:29:09 Anyway, if you have more lisp-related questions don't hesitate to ask after consulting what resources you have. 00:29:17 ok 00:29:45 so I never did get a good answer for cross-compiling gnu clisp 00:29:57 Forty-3: you cross-compile from gcc (: 00:30:00 Forty-3: M-x hyperspec-lookup cant live without it now :) 00:30:08 you can't just do that 00:30:08 Forty-3: I don't think there's a better answer than that at the moment 00:30:16 clisp has to support the architecture 00:30:27 Forty-3: ah, well 00:30:37 Forty-3: think you'll have to ask sam or bruno, then 00:30:41 ok\ 00:30:44 (or the mailing list) 00:31:07 CLISP's bytecode isn't portable across architectures? 00:31:08 sam/bronu: does gnu clisp support the super H architecture? 00:31:11 -!- ravster [~user@184.175.28.107] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:31:23 I thought you meant cross-compiling from a supported compiler on the same architecture 00:31:35 Forty-3: they are not here. email is the key. 00:31:42 ok 00:31:43 sykopomp: nope. 00:31:49 Forty-3: when it comes to supporting 'funny' architectures, I think I've seen ecl people more active in such endeavors. 00:31:59 ecl..? 00:32:03 oooh 00:32:04 k 00:32:09 at least in recent years with the interest in iOS/android. 00:32:10 I already have their source 00:32:49 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p548846A1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:33:56 speaking of source, whats the best implementation to study its internals for someone who wants to learn more about compilers? 00:34:32 aww darn 00:35:00 pavelpenev: none, I'd say, unless you're interested in 80's tech ;) 00:35:03 not supported 00:37:03 pkhuong: 80's tech and we still have better compilers than most dynamic languages? kind of sad really. 00:38:22 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 00:38:39 Factor seemed to take plenty of notes from the implementation of CL implementations (or maybe just SBCL), and it has a relatively recent compiler... 00:38:41 I'd distribute the blame evenly between completely borked semantics, other goals, and BDUF efforts. 00:39:29 pkhuong: borked semantics in CL itself? 00:39:43 sykopomp: no, in "most dynamic languages" 00:39:46 oh, you mean other languages not having such compilers. 00:39:50 hah 00:40:03 also, implementing a runtime is a bunch of work (: 00:40:17 there's a "don't write your own newsreader" article in there (: 00:40:19 pavelpenev: I know a good geberal tutorial 00:40:24 let me dig it up 00:40:28 *&general 00:40:31 *ge 00:40:47 There's a couple nifty bits in SBCL that solve problems that don't usually crop up in typed languages. 00:41:21 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 00:44:02 pavelpenev: check out http://compilers.iecc.com/crenshaw/ 00:44:28 Ah, Crenshaw... 70's tech ;) 00:44:32 :P 00:44:39 written from 1988 to 1995 00:45:54 I should probably read that myself 00:47:48 Forty-3: is that pascal? my childhood nightmares were doing so well being suppressed into my consciousness :) 00:48:00 pavelpenev: umm... 00:48:07 maybe..? 00:48:24 *Forty-3* runs 00:48:31 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:48:53 70's tech indeed :) 00:49:21 :P 00:49:34 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 00:49:40 data-mage__ [~data-mage@c-69-249-253-220.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:46 pascal is so restrictive, even the author doesn't use it 00:50:33 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Client Quit] 00:50:59 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:51:19 Forty-3: a bunch of my uni teachers claim his book on algorithms would be the best ever if it weren't written in pascal :) 00:51:26 (defun fact (n) 00:51:44 huh 00:52:00 should have first looked which repl it is :D 00:52:35 so where do find a modern compiler tut... 00:53:30 -!- data-mage_ [~data-mage@c-69-249-253-220.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:54:16 does anybody know if you can get access to "let over lambda" on linux 00:54:20 I'd go with Allen Kennedy, maybe Muchnick, and read llvm. 00:54:32 coder`: like mind over matter? 00:54:44 pkhuong: llvm? 00:55:01 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-166-21-1-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:55:04 Forty-3: no it's a book by doug hoyte 00:55:10 ah 00:55:17 coder`: isn't most of it online? 00:55:42 pavelpenev: yeah i've read most of it, still i'm interested in the rest 00:55:57 coder`: buy the book? 00:56:37 pavelpenev: i don't want the hard copy -> too slow and too expensive 00:56:49 pavelpenev: and the ebook is only for windows 00:57:19 eew 00:57:31 but you can probably access it via vip code at online site? 00:57:34 ReactOS+a VM? 00:58:06 coder`: some kind of DRM? 00:58:48 pavelpenev: yeah it has something to do with adobe 00:59:42 Forty-3: i pass 00:59:49 :P 00:59:59 there is a foss solution for everything 01:00:16 coder`: mailed the author? 01:00:33 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 01:00:33 Forty-3: the next os i install will be a lisp os 01:00:41 :D 01:01:13 Bike: no, i wanted to ask here if someone got access on the site with the vip code 01:01:57 pkhuong: what do you mean by "I'd go with Allen Kennedy, maybe Muchnick, and read llvm." 01:02:19 Forty-3: google them, they seem to be authors of books 01:02:27 umm 01:02:29 except LLVM, that's a compiler framework. 01:02:34 https://www.google.com/search?q="Allen+Kennedy" 01:02:36 nope 01:02:44 Forty-3: http://www.amazon.com/Optimizing-Compilers-Modern-Architectures-Dependence-based/dp/1558602860 http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Compiler-Design-Implementation-Muchnick/dp/1558603204 01:02:54 Is there a way to skip over the first and last of a list, processing only a section in the middle? 01:03:07 yeah, llvm is in my infinitely long list of stuff to read about 01:03:50 drl: first easily, last, not so much. You could do something like (loop for (x . rest) on list while rest ...) 01:03:51 Forty-3: from googling "kennedy compiler", etc 01:04:10 Bike: the problem with those are that they're both $75+ 01:04:11 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:04:39 that's pretty usual for technical books in my experience (unfortunately). 01:04:58 :| 01:04:59 drl: will subseq do you any good? if not (butlast (rest some-list)) 01:05:05 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:05:20 *Forty-3* wonders if his library can trade books with others in teh state 01:05:25 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 01:05:27 Forty-3: llvm source is free, though! 01:05:54 Bike: it's not in a read-through format 01:06:41 Forty-3: reading large real codebases is a valuable skill, almost as valuable as compilers :) 01:06:56 eh 01:07:02 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-154-103-106.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:20 wait, what? 01:07:40 Muchnick was a member of the NWA 01:08:12 I believe that is a different Muchnick. 01:08:32 Forty-3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Muchnick 01:08:39 ah 01:08:41 Forty-3: your google skills seem to suck 01:08:47 pkhuong and pavelpenev, I was going to use subseq until I realize that when I saved it I would lose the first and last of my list. 01:08:50 pavelpenev: I searched Muchnick 01:09:01 it turned up Muchnick 01:09:03 err 01:09:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Muchnick 01:09:27 Forty-3: google can't read minds, despite what their marketing department would like you to think :) 01:09:46 I'll check out butlast. 01:09:47 -!- Quadresce is now known as Quadrescence 01:09:52 pavelpenev: I know 01:13:04 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-ouimbhvtuerxsvhm] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:13:31 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-cgbwfbeffnnxtkfr] has joined #lisp 01:14:08 pavelpenev, I don't think butlast will work. I need to iterate through the whole list, but progess only a section in the middle, returning the whole list. 01:15:52 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:16:02 (do ((i 0 (length list)) (l list (cdr l)) (x (car l) (car l))) ((null l) list) (when (< i 1 12) (do-stuff-with x))) or something like that? 01:17:24 -!- bburhans_ is now known as bburhans 01:17:34 drl: whats so special about the first and the last elements? I find that if i need to process some elements differently its usually because i'm doing something wrong. 01:18:59 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-cgbwfbeffnnxtkfr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:19:46 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-lrwsbknqodhjhqcw] has joined #lisp 01:20:04 msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-98-92-217-52.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:26 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:22:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.199.97.185] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:22:29 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:24:34 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25:21 xscc [~xscc@221.11.61.222] has joined #lisp 01:26:53 -!- xscc [~xscc@221.11.61.222] has quit [Client Quit] 01:27:02 pavelpenev, it is a database (a list of plists). Each record (plist) has to be displayed and manually processed every day. It takes too long to process all at once, so I want to divide it into sections, and process only one section at a time. 01:27:32 drl: how about (dolist (i (butlast (cdr lst)) lst) 01:27:32 (do-something with i)) 01:28:54 -!- msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-98-92-217-52.asm.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 01:28:54 coder`, is that going to return the whole list? or just a part of it? 01:29:44 drl: the third-inner argument is the result of the dolist form 01:29:55 (defun process-section (section-number section-length database) (dolist (x (subseq database (* (1- section-number) section-length) (* section-number length))) (process-item x)) database) 01:30:04 (dolist (var list &optional result)) 01:32:23 coder`, and Bike, thanks. I'll try out your suggestions and get back. 01:33:46 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:34:10 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 249 seconds] 01:35:00 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:47 huangho [~huangho@187.53.98.7] has joined #lisp 01:36:16 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-140-189.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:37:28 data-mage_ [~data-mage@c-69-249-253-220.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:02 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 01:39:33 lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-140-189.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 01:40:36 -!- data-mage__ [~data-mage@c-69-249-253-220.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:42:35 hitecnologys [~No_Name@94.137.48.27] has joined #lisp 01:46:17 Sounds like a work-flow problem. 01:48:22 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@94.137.48.27] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:49:08 Why not set it up with a task queue and just inject each task into the queue as you go. 01:49:57 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 01:50:10 tiglog [~topeak@61.149.226.96] has joined #lisp 01:52:09 I think I'll just setf each section to a separate varible, process the section needing processing, then concatenate the sections back into one list. 01:53:19 Zhivago, I don't understand what you mean. 01:53:22 sellout [~Adium@216.41.19.66] has joined #lisp 01:53:50 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:53:58 drl: sounds like a list isn't the right data structure 01:54:57 a wise man once said "linked lists are never the right data structure" 01:55:16 but it might actually have been some random internet commenter of no consequence 01:55:24 ymmv 01:56:13 sykopomp: not mutually exclusive i think, also linked lists seem to work just fine if you're fleshing out a design, I've rewritten my code 4 times in two days already :) 01:57:10 hitecnologys [~No_Name@94.137.48.27] has joined #lisp 01:57:58 pavelpenev, that is probably correct. But the program is in use, and I don't have time to start over. and I've learned a lot about lists writing it. :>) 01:59:05 I'm kinda pushing the boundaries now though, 01:59:50 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:59:52 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:01:28 lebro [~lebro@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:14 But I'm out of time today. It will have to wait until later. Thanks everybody for the help! 02:03:58 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 02:06:40 -!- lebro [~lebro@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:08:09 pbgc [~pbgc@bl20-187-134.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 02:08:37 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:11:00 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:11:08 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:11:41 data-mage__ [~data-mage@c-69-249-253-220.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:56 -!- pbgc [~pbgc@bl20-187-134.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:14:44 -!- data-mage_ [~data-mage@c-69-249-253-220.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:16:54 am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 02:21:07 -!- AdmiralBumbleBee [~AdmiralBu@pool-108-9-57-130.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: AdmiralBumbleBee] 02:22:08 pinterface1 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neoesque harish kliph sporous nowhere_man Kwucks wormwood saage_ CrazyEddy totzeit midpipps peterhil drl Dalek_Baldwin tsuru```` setheus Arbamisto kcj Jasko ltriant pavelpenev ozialien_ joshe SHUPFS apathor vsync didi rbarraud kuzary coder` dotemacs mcsontos gabot axion Zol DaDaDOSPrompt rfgpfeif1er 02:56:27 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> [21:55] Users on #lisp: quazimod1 _tca_ gffa chr`` Ralith_ j_king wormphle1m theBlackDragon Zemyla_ pok_ basso_ EarlGray^ edgar-rf_ JPeterson bobbysmith0071 dmiles_afk Quadrescence jackhammer2022 oconnore SHODAN iamalexalright DDR jjkola tensorpudding milanj Bike blackwolf billstclair karswell fold dRbiG alvis flip214 eli yroeht antoszka Yuuhi ianmcorvidae ivan4th NimeshNeema cpt_nemo Tasser xan_ [SLB] dan64 clintm BountyX jewel ecra 02:56:27 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> [21:55] Users on #lisp: derekv ivan\ scharan rtoym dlowe keltvek Guest63158 freiksenet Neronus DrForr fmu clop jaxtr lusory aerique_ sav ozzloy prince_jammys jeekl tritchey Vutral Xach BlastHardcheese jasox df_ setmeaway mikaelj joast galdor gz Amadiro_ tvaalen ofan Oddity Archenoth arrsim` _schulte_ mathrick huangjs Buglouse Posterdati Patzy bjorkintosh egn PECCU |3b| minion gilez mungojelly bzzbzz_ Phooodus RiskyBlit AntiSpamMeta T 02:56:27 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> [21:55] Users on #lisp: yan_ herbieB nullman pkhuong tali713 stokachu smithzv _3b CampinSam SeanTAllen gimbal angavrilov ski denysonique Raynos macrobat rvirding The_third_man araujo arrsim kleppari BrianRice guyal ace4016 ozialien JuanDaugherty hugod Eulo sykopomp pjb s0ber elliottcable anddam jayne REPLeffect teiresias abeaumont madnificent ISF samebchase Tristam schmx SeySayux Khisanth Praise DGASAU impulse specbot froggey cmatei 02:56:28 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> [21:55] Users on #lisp: redline6561_ derrida Jabberwockey pchrist cataska Ottre Codynyx phadthai Tordek wolgo otwieracz nicdev stepnem Tuxedo r126f BeLucid mon_key __main__ p_l|backup ASau guther gf3 vhost- trigen sbryant housel turbolent Bucciarati eMBee cmbntr phizyx prip a7p Obfuscate xristos PissedNumlock foom foocraft H4ns Odin- loke blitz_ ered kanru_ Mandus maxm froydnj fe[nl]ix dim em __class__ clog Kvaks djinni` slava brendy 02:56:28 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> [21:55] Users on #lisp: copec scode clanstin dsp_ nightfly YokYok _root_ drdo hpd Yahovah_ gemelen mirTapir net4all Nshag Axioplase felideon nuba johs mafs daimrod @Zhivago mal__ arbscht _death sshirokov zbigniew rdd z0d cmm tomaw cYmen quasisane ``Erik acieroid howeyc Yamazaki-kun guaqua literal limetree @antifuchs spacefrogg^ boyscared sigjuice rabite mtd dnm Subfusc koisoke tychoish fasta blackmir7oxx nitro_idiot cods Fade wyan ne 02:56:28 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> [21:55] Users on #lisp: oGMo felipe qsun_ finnrobi yeltzooo7 ccl-logbot renard_ Borbus jerQ ineiros 02:56:42 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> cyphase robot-beethoven pnq kyl jnbek springz sellout pinterface1 am0c_ chu echo-area hitecnologys leo2007 tiglog lifeng Vivitron neoesque harish kliph sporous nowhere_man Kwucks wormwood saage_ CrazyEddy totzeit midpipps peterhil drl Dalek_Baldwin tsuru```` setheus Arbamisto kcj Jasko ltriant pavelpenev ozialien_ joshe SHUPFS apathor vsync didi rbarraud kuzary coder` dotemacs mcsontos gabot axion Zol DaDaDOSPrompt rfgpfeif1er 02:56:42 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> [21:55] Users on #lisp: quazimod1 _tca_ gffa chr`` Ralith_ j_king wormphle1m theBlackDragon Zemyla_ pok_ basso_ EarlGray^ edgar-rf_ JPeterson bobbysmith0071 dmiles_afk Quadrescence jackhammer2022 oconnore SHODAN iamalexalright DDR jjkola tensorpudding milanj Bike blackwolf billstclair karswell fold dRbiG alvis flip214 eli yroeht antoszka Yuuhi ianmcorvidae ivan4th NimeshNeema cpt_nemo Tasser xan_ [SLB] dan64 clintm BountyX jewel ecra 02:56:42 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> [21:55] Users on #lisp: derekv ivan\ scharan rtoym dlowe keltvek Guest63158 freiksenet Neronus DrForr fmu clop jaxtr lusory aerique_ sav ozzloy prince_jammys jeekl tritchey Vutral Xach BlastHardcheese jasox df_ setmeaway mikaelj joast galdor gz Amadiro_ tvaalen ofan Oddity Archenoth arrsim` _schulte_ mathrick huangjs Buglouse Posterdati Patzy bjorkintosh egn PECCU |3b| minion gilez mungojelly bzzbzz_ Phooodus RiskyBlit AntiSpamMeta T 02:56:42 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> [21:55] Users on #lisp: yan_ herbieB nullman pkhuong tali713 stokachu smithzv _3b CampinSam SeanTAllen gimbal angavrilov ski denysonique Raynos macrobat rvirding The_third_man araujo arrsim kleppari BrianRice guyal ace4016 ozialien JuanDaugherty hugod Eulo sykopomp pjb s0ber elliottcable anddam jayne REPLeffect teiresias abeaumont madnificent ISF samebchase Tristam schmx SeySayux Khisanth Praise DGASAU impulse specbot froggey cmatei 02:56:42 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> [21:55] Users on #lisp: redline6561_ derrida Jabberwockey pchrist cataska Ottre Codynyx phadthai Tordek wolgo otwieracz nicdev stepnem Tuxedo r126f BeLucid mon_key __main__ p_l|backup ASau guther gf3 vhost- trigen sbryant housel turbolent Bucciarati eMBee cmbntr phizyx prip a7p Obfuscate xristos PissedNumlock foom foocraft H4ns Odin- loke blitz_ ered kanru_ Mandus maxm froydnj fe[nl]ix dim em __class__ clog Kvaks djinni` slava brendy 02:56:43 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> [21:55] Users on #lisp: copec scode clanstin dsp_ nightfly YokYok _root_ drdo hpd Yahovah_ gemelen mirTapir net4all Nshag Axioplase felideon nuba johs mafs daimrod @Zhivago mal__ arbscht _death sshirokov zbigniew rdd z0d cmm tomaw cYmen quasisane ``Erik acieroid howeyc Yamazaki-kun guaqua literal limetree @antifuchs spacefrogg^ boyscared sigjuice rabite mtd dnm Subfusc koisoke tychoish fasta blackmir7oxx nitro_idiot cods Fade wyan ne 02:56:43 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> [21:55] Users on #lisp: oGMo felipe qsun_ finnrobi yeltzooo7 ccl-logbot renard_ Borbus jerQ ineiros 02:56:45 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> cyphase robot-beethoven pnq kyl jnbek springz sellout pinterface1 am0c_ chu echo-area hitecnologys leo2007 tiglog lifeng Vivitron neoesque harish kliph sporous nowhere_man Kwucks wormwood saage_ CrazyEddy totzeit midpipps peterhil drl Dalek_Baldwin tsuru```` setheus Arbamisto kcj Jasko ltriant pavelpenev ozialien_ joshe SHUPFS apathor vsync didi rbarraud kuzary coder` dotemacs mcsontos gabot axion Zol DaDaDOSPrompt rfgpfeif1er 02:56:45 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> [21:55] Users on #lisp: quazimod1 _tca_ gffa chr`` Ralith_ j_king wormphle1m theBlackDragon Zemyla_ pok_ basso_ EarlGray^ edgar-rf_ JPeterson bobbysmith0071 dmiles_afk Quadrescence jackhammer2022 oconnore SHODAN iamalexalright DDR jjkola tensorpudding milanj Bike blackwolf billstclair karswell fold dRbiG alvis flip214 eli yroeht antoszka Yuuhi ianmcorvidae ivan4th NimeshNeema cpt_nemo Tasser xan_ [SLB] dan64 clintm BountyX jewel ecra 02:56:45 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> [21:55] Users on #lisp: derekv ivan\ scharan rtoym dlowe keltvek Guest63158 freiksenet Neronus DrForr fmu clop jaxtr lusory aerique_ sav ozzloy prince_jammys jeekl tritchey Vutral Xach BlastHardcheese jasox df_ setmeaway mikaelj joast galdor gz Amadiro_ tvaalen ofan Oddity Archenoth arrsim` _schulte_ mathrick huangjs Buglouse Posterdati Patzy bjorkintosh egn PECCU |3b| minion gilez mungojelly bzzbzz_ Phooodus RiskyBlit AntiSpamMeta T 02:56:45 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> [21:55] Users on #lisp: yan_ herbieB nullman pkhuong tali713 stokachu smithzv _3b CampinSam SeanTAllen gimbal angavrilov ski denysonique Raynos macrobat rvirding The_third_man araujo arrsim kleppari BrianRice guyal ace4016 ozialien JuanDaugherty hugod Eulo sykopomp pjb s0ber elliottcable anddam jayne REPLeffect teiresias abeaumont madnificent ISF samebchase Tristam schmx SeySayux Khisanth Praise DGASAU impulse specbot froggey cmatei 02:56:45 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> [21:55] Users on #lisp: redline6561_ derrida Jabberwockey pchrist cataska Ottre Codynyx phadthai Tordek wolgo otwieracz nicdev stepnem Tuxedo r126f BeLucid mon_key __main__ p_l|backup ASau guther gf3 vhost- trigen sbryant housel turbolent Bucciarati eMBee cmbntr phizyx prip a7p Obfuscate xristos PissedNumlock foom foocraft H4ns Odin- loke blitz_ ered kanru_ Mandus maxm froydnj fe[nl]ix dim em __class__ clog Kvaks djinni` slava brendy 02:56:46 <\\\\\\\\\\\\\\> [21:55] Users on #lisp: copec scode clanstin dsp_ nightfly YokYok _root_ drdo hpd Yahovah_ gemelen mirTapir net4all Nshag Axioplase felideon nuba johs mafs daimrod @Zhivago mal__ arbscht _death sshirokov zbigniew rdd z0d cmm tomaw cYmen quasisane ``Erik acieroid howeyc Yamazaki-kun guaqua literal limetree @antifuchs spacefrogg^ boyscared sigjuice rabite mtd dnm Subfusc koisoke tychoish fasta blackmir7oxx nitro_idiot cods Fade wyan ne 02:56:49 fail 02:56:50 -!- Raynos [u3611@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sdhuwddupaykpedq] has left #lisp 02:56:51 that's nice. 02:56:54 -!- antifuchs has set mode +b *!~AndChat@wsip-24-248-228-32.ks.ks.cox.net 02:56:54 -!- \\\\\\\\\\\\\\ [foobar@care.boinkor.net] has been kicked from #lisp by antifuchs (Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.) 02:57:09 Lol 02:57:14 the eff 02:57:27 -!- iamalexalright [~iamalexal@rrcs-108-178-167-254.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:57:30 idlers unite. 02:57:47 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:57:47 (defun conducivep (behavior &environment env) (consult 'antifuchs behavior env)) 02:57:52 hell yeah 02:57:56 haha 02:57:59 That was most epic moment in my life. =| 02:58:32 Lovely. 02:58:33 "and he was enlightened." 03:01:14 what on earth was that about? 03:03:16 bjorkintosh: Seems that it was list of people who was on channel. 03:03:17 The spammer presumably is just watching from an alternate account to see the reaction from the channel, which appears to have met the expectations. 03:03:39 I think someone's Android chat client may just be screwed up 03:03:51 cat sat on the mat huh? 03:04:52 or maybe the cat sat on their phone :D 03:05:56 REPLeffect: I think someones's Android client completely discharged the battery the battery. =) 03:06:03 AW. 03:06:40 Typed the battery twice. Sorry. =| 03:06:42 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06:55 you mean that wasn't for "effect" ? :D 03:07:04 you could have saved your self some time by saying (print-twice '(the battery)). 03:08:32 REPLeffect: Yes. 03:08:37 bjorkintosh: It's probably an emacs macro. 03:08:58 emacs the ultimate. 03:10:26 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A50B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:24 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 03:12:45 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A316.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:13:41 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:49 I am working on figuring out hunchentoot:create-regex-dispatcher. Does anyone have any sample code? 03:16:34 coder`` [~user@p54918786.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:18:03 -!- coder` [~user@p549186C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:18:37 pnathan: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hunchentoot+create-regex-dispatcher+example HTH 03:19:32 woah, what's this *google* thing? I can't believe it it /searches/ the Intertubes! 03:19:40 go figure! 03:19:58 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-27.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:20:14 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:48 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:24:39 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-27.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:25:55 lt-youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:26:30 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:48 -!- lt-youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has left #lisp 03:27:15 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:29:06 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 03:29:47 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.98.220] has joined #lisp 03:32:04 smart smart, SBCL recognized (if (functionp #'f) x y) for an fbound F is equiv to X. 03:32:13 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-161.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:33:43 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 03:34:07 -!- Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:37:41 Constant expression reduction is pretty standard. 03:37:53 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:38:22 7 namespace bleh.... 03:38:30 -!- mungojelly [~mungojell@li509-123.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 03:38:37 morning 03:41:57 7 namespace bleh? What language are you speaking? 03:42:15 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-lrwsbknqodhjhqcw] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:42:52 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:43:08 namespace + s 03:44:30 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:44:48 linuga franca ?! 03:44:52 lol 03:45:51 Zhivago, Yeah, I ran into another case where it errored at compile time for having (/ 0 0), even though that was wrapped in a lambda that'd never be executed. 03:46:08 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:47:00 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:48:57 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 03:50:32 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:51:07 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined 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-!- nha [~prefect@g225147104.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:18:37 am0c_ [~am0c@203.246.179.173] has joined #lisp 08:21:05 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:21:55 Squee-D [~Squee-D@219-89-33-185.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:22:12 is there a good reference for how people decide to indent their lisp ? :D 08:22:17 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 08:22:46 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:23:37 springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has joined #lisp 08:23:39 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:30:36 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:32:27 Squee-D: use emacs or vim autoindentation, they should be mostly configured for the '"standard" 08:32:52 gah im going to have to crack into emacs soon eh 08:33:00 vim user? 08:33:05 neither 08:33:09 long time since ive used either 08:33:15 like over a decade 08:33:50 for emacs use slime, for vim slimv 08:33:53 for my ruby and my java related languages i use jetbrains products, sublime for others 08:34:10 yeah i'll go emacs as its the lispian defacto 08:34:30 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.70.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:35:57 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:36:13 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.251.190.138] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 08:38:20 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:40:27 jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has joined #lisp 08:44:35 -!- jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:44:55 -!- Squee-D [~Squee-D@219-89-33-185.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: The computer fell asleep] 08:46:34 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:47:38 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 08:49:22 CrazyEddy [~superexto@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 08:50:40 -!- punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:51:16 ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has joined #lisp 08:51:37 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.213.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:55:59 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@203.246.179.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:56:36 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-rqbadfkhjiruhgee] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:56:40 am0c_ [~am0c@203.246.179.173] has joined #lisp 08:58:07 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:58:28 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:58:28 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:58:28 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 09:02:04 punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:52 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@94.137.48.27] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:05:04 hitecnologys [~No_Name@109.120.32.139] has joined #lisp 09:05:31 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 09:06:03 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07:23 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:07:59 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 09:08:12 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:10:59 tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.70.73] has joined #lisp 09:12:33 Hello! 09:13:56 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@203.246.179.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:16:08 I have question about copy-seq, I copy sequence, 257 values ( types: rational,nil, float,fixnums). 09:16:37 when I have something like: (lambda (foo) (something) (copy-seq foo)) it takes 3 times more than copying newly created array, size 257 with random values 09:17:25 do you know what can cause this? 09:17:58 paste some example code demonstrating the behavior 09:17:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:18:27 I thought that copy-seq on array of rationals is slow 09:18:36 H4ns: ok, let my think how to create good example 09:21:42 nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-203.math.tu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 09:21:57 -!- RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-66-77-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:32 bitonic [~user@host86-154-103-106.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:29:45 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:30:11 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 09:30:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.241] has joined #lisp 09:30:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.241] has quit [Changing host] 09:30:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:31:18 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:32:00 H4ns: hah, while creating example, I've created one more test - when I copy everything except rational it is fast. 09:32:10 so I've found bottleneck 09:32:56 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:33:20 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:35:37 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 09:39:30 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.63.79] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:40:23 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 09:41:18 Which is odd, since you don't need to copy rationals. 09:45:51 mrSpec: if you paste the code, we may be able to tell what's going on. 09:51:27 ok, thanks! creating example 09:51:34 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:09 saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA11F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:55:33 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:01:20 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:01:53 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:45 jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has joined #lisp 10:03:54 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 10:04:24 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 10:05:31 http://paste.lisp.org/display/130591 10:05:35 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 10:05:36 H4ns: please take a look 10:06:04 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 10:06:16 I hope it is clear, if not I'll explain more. Maybe the problem is not in copy-seq but in the loop which compare old and new rational value? 10:09:13 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:00 mrSpec: this is too much code for me to digest - are you sure that the problem is in copy-seq, and not in the :initial-contents that you specify to make-array? how do you measure speed? 10:12:12 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:12:50 mrSpec: also note (some #'/= #(1 2 3) #(1 2 4)) (but remember (some #'/= #(1 2 3) #(1 2))) 10:12:57 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 10:14:00 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 10:14:07 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:14:11 zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:50 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.23.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:27:00 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:27:50 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 10:28:49 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 10:30:44 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 10:30:46 RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-66-77-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:31:01 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:32:07 -!- punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:32:10 -!- RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-66-77-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:33:00 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 10:35:14 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:39:16 -!- quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:42:29 H4ns: sorry I was AFK. The initial-contents is not the problem, The problem ocurre when I dont use my-copy-seq and comment out #+nil(x ) 10:42:37 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:53 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:50:09 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:52:47 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-kzbgwshascibcsea] has joined #lisp 10:52:47 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-kzbgwshascibcsea] has quit [Changing host] 10:52:48 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:53:19 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:56:26 -!- zodiac1111_ [~zodiac111@124.90.139.115] has quit [Quit: ] 10:57:48 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-154-103-106.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:58:38 -!- tiglog [~topeak@61.149.226.96] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:58:57 Squee-D [~Squee-D@219-89-33-185.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:01:52 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 11:02:03 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 11:03:32 mrSpec: i cannot look at the code that you've pasted, it is too large. reduce it to the essence of the problem. 11:07:29 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128094184.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:07:30 -!- zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 11:09:58 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:11:17 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 11:15:29 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.213.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 11:16:49 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 11:17:36 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 11:22:50 http://paste.lisp.org/display/130592 Anyone guide a n00b a little? 11:23:03 just trying to load and use lisp-unit 11:23:54 try (apropos "TEST") 11:24:13 you probably need to use the package or specify lisp-unit:define-test 11:26:44 Yeah im probably jumping the gun in my learning, haven't begun to understand package management and 'namespacing' in lisp yet 11:27:04 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:05 you're right tho, the fully qualified name works 11:28:17 how do i use a package? 11:28:31 Squee-D: don't :) 11:28:38 lol 11:28:49 why? 11:29:19 Squee-D: because importing symbols generally makes it harder to figure out what you're calling. 11:29:41 Squee-D: i have moved away from :use'ing other packages and i don't look back 11:30:16 Squee-D: Have a read of http://www.flownet.com/gat/packages.pdf  very enlightening in that matter. 11:30:48 for an opposing pov, I still dump all the stuff I regularly use into a huge 'ball of mud' MY-LISP package, dump my environment so that it starts up in that and forget about the origins of stuff 11:30:56 hmm so you can only import the symbols, you cant evaluate in the package? 11:31:16 a bit old school perhaps but I don't see the point of java style fine grained packages for lisp 11:31:30 i mean it seems to me that it makes sense to 'mix-in' my dsl 11:31:39 especially if its an aspect like testing 11:32:04 squee-d: sure you can. (in-package :lisp-unit) and everything after that is in that package 11:32:12 that's not really a good idea though 11:32:22 mal, in this case i think that makes less sense 11:32:34 the alternative is explicit naming or (use-package :lisp-unit) 11:32:35 i really want the test dsl and my code in the same namespace 11:32:50 i think i'll take the latter in the case 11:32:53 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:55 consider me warned :D 11:33:03 mal__: importing everything into one ball of mud is fine if you neither care about other people being able to read your code nor about you being able to use more packages facing conflicts. 11:33:22 well, the point is that CL is a dynamic language so "namespace" is not really the right concept 11:33:51 H4ns: conflicts get handled adhoc by renaming and/or shadowing 11:34:10 What does 'dynamic' have to do with 'namespace'? 11:34:19 Yeah i didnt follow either 11:34:29 mal__: sure. creating more confusion for the reader because it is not apparent which of the conflicting symbols is meant. 11:35:01 I recommend writing foo::bar, myself -- unless the package you're importing is extending the language in some structural fashion. 11:35:01 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-140-189.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:35:18 Zhivago: ron garret's famous rant that after you tried to call foo where you meant bar:foo, trying to solve it by (use-package :bar) will give conflicts 11:35:19 foo:bar, rather. 11:35:21 Zhivago: why do you recommend the two colons? 11:35:21 Zhivago thats what i would lean toward 11:35:28 ah. ok. 11:36:41 I am bringing my ruby nature to this tho.. I mix in dsl's into objects, which are as good a similacrum to live namespacing as i can get 11:36:58 What do you mean by 'namespace', then? 11:37:08 i wouldnt, however mix in disparate systems or, architectural modules 11:37:37 a group of terns/. 11:37:40 lol 11:37:42 not birds 11:37:44 terms 11:37:56 So, what do you mean by a 'live namespace'? 11:38:20 anyways, as said above, read the packages paper. it's a good summary. 11:39:37 well in languages like ruby, where the program structure is built in execution, you tend to have a 'current' namespace.. 11:39:50 so i guess you could call it a mutable namespace. 11:40:03 this is why mixins are so straightforward in ruby. 11:40:03 am0c_ [~am0c@203.246.179.173] has joined #lisp 11:40:25 and by current, i just mean, a 'self' 11:40:45 there is no such thing as a "self" in common lisp 11:41:04 Squee: You seem very confused. 11:41:05 it is best not to try finding stuff familiar from ruby in lisp. 11:41:14 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:41:20 so when i run defun, where is the symbol allocated? 11:41:35 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 11:41:35 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 11:41:35 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 11:41:39 Squee: A namespace is a group of terms, but a live namespace is ... ? 11:41:42 h4ns i wasn't so much, as just trying to find a common ground when i don't know your vernacular too well 11:41:56 Symbols are like integers. 11:42:04 Why does it matter where they're allocated, if anywhere? 11:42:43 because if their "referencability" can be changed, then i need to know how to reference them? 11:43:06 Squee-D: They belong to a package. Have you had a look at that paper I linked? 11:43:07 What does it mean to change the referencability of an integer? 11:43:30 antoszka bit hard, i keep getting asked questions 11:43:40 Squee-D: Do it first :) 11:43:46 an integer is more tan its value, it also has a location 11:43:55 Where is 4? 11:44:01 thats a value 11:44:11 That's an integer. 11:44:25 and im not talking about the value, im talking about the ability to reference, hence the term namespace. 11:44:42 Squee-D: please read the paper now. 11:44:48 gunna 11:45:14 Squee: But you said that a namespace is a set of terms. 11:45:50 Squee: What does referencing have to do with terms? 11:47:34 I feel that you want to enjoy some intellectual elitism Zhivago, i'm just looking for some help, and others hae given me some good help. 11:47:44 Squee-D: please read the paper now. 11:47:52 i am 11:48:50 No. I just would like you to be coherent. 11:49:08 Squee-D: keep reading. 11:49:13 Yeah, but let the guy read the paper first ;) 11:49:59 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:50:13 Yeah and realise I'm trying to 1 understand te vernacular, and can only do that by learning. Spanking someone with rhetoric is pointless, just in case you didnt know. 11:51:18 Squee: Please look up 'spanking' and 'rhetoric'. 11:51:24 -!- sellout [~Adium@216.41.19.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:51:29 Squee-D: _or_ keep reading. 11:56:31 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 11:56:52 bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:58:12 Squee-D: There's #clnoobs as a rethoric-free channel. 11:58:47 ta 11:58:59 Squee-D: when you evaluate (not run) a defun form, no symbol gets allocated. 11:59:14 Squee-D: read on 12:00:31 are there some established conventions for writing docstrings in common lisp? 12:00:38 newcup: several 12:00:40 something like http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Documentation-Tips.html 12:01:55 which do you think is the one worth following? 12:02:18 newcup: it depends on what you want to use to extract your docstrings into documentation, if anything. 12:03:43 newcup: atdoc is one convention that i don't use. i have something that i call clixdoc which works for me, but just for me. in fact i lied, there is no "established convention". some people write their docstrings similar to other, but that i would not call a convention. 12:04:01 does slime/swank recognize some style of markup in docstrings? 12:04:07 newcup: no 12:04:42 ratzez [~ratzez@21.Red-83-33-81.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:41 H4ns: ok, thanks. I'll look into atdoc. is clixdoc documented or released somewhere? 12:06:48 newcup: no :) 12:07:04 newcup: but it deals with docstrings as written by edi weitz 12:07:23 newcup: (which is the style i imitate, mostly) 12:08:44 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA11F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 12:09:48 pjb i got swallowed up by that document. I'll continue with my gentle lisp introduction and come back to it later i think. For now I'll use-package the test package because i would prefer that the (i know i'm being imprecise) label i use for the functions not require lisp-unit: everywhere i need them. 12:09:52 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:11:29 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:32 ZabaQ1 [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has joined #lisp 12:13:12 thanks for the help guys 12:13:18 -!- ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:14:25 -!- ZabaQ1 is now known as ZabaQ 12:14:50 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 12:15:36 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:19:31 -!- ratzez [~ratzez@21.Red-83-33-81.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ratzez] 12:19:36 -!- zmyrgel [~user@a91-153-146-121.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:19:51 -!- Squee-D [~Squee-D@219-89-33-185.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: The computer fell 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[~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53:17 re 14:53:50 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 14:55:41 re 14:56:00 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has left #lisp 14:56:25 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:57:21 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 15:01:51 what's up? 15:01:52 -!- fsmunoz [user@nat/ibm/x-fhgchfdclavfeqdi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:30 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:04:51 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:05:22 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 15:06:06 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:07:01 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:10:20 down is up! 15:10:23 up is down! 15:10:48 In New Zealand, yes. 15:10:59 lol 15:11:49 i'll def. buy some sheeple of you then...... 15:12:13 -!- ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:57 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-rhkgzpohxmagsdcq] has joined #lisp 15:15:07 coder` [~user@p54918786.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:21:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:22:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.241] has joined #lisp 15:22:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.241] has quit [Changing host] 15:22:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:23:22 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 15:23:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 15:24:18 slucx [~lumpy_wx@120.87.185.99] has joined #lisp 15:24:21 benny [~user@i577A1BF3.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:24:43 -!- Praise 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[Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:56:57 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:58:57 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:00:39 this lisp-interface-library thingie is addictive. 17:01:18 Fare: hi, tried your single-threaded-ccl thingy, didn't work for me sadly 17:01:29 how so? 17:01:38 works great for me -- how are you trying to use it? 17:01:40 don't know, just gave me two threads 17:01:48 ahem. 17:01:56 Lemme compile the latestest CCL and try it... 17:02:37 which ccl are you using, and how are you trying to use single-threaded-ccl ? 17:02:42 i just loaded single-threaded-ccl.lisp and did save-application 17:02:49 trunk ccl 17:02:50 you realize that you have to dump an image and start from said image 17:02:58 1.9-dev-r15422M-trunk 17:04:03 -!- phizyx [~phizyx@078088204010.walbrzych.vectranet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:04:05 let me try again to be sure what's going on, i may not remember all the details from yesterday correctly 17:06:07 works for me with 15423 from trunk. Did you follow the instructions in the README ? 17:06:13 ccl --load make-single-threaded-ccl 17:06:42 and then to test, ./single-threaded-ccl --eval '(progn (ccl::show-processes) (ccl::quit))' 17:07:04 well, i loaded what make-single-threaded-ccl loads by hand 17:08:13 if you're running from SLIME, slime may be starting a thread in your back 17:08:25 no, of course i'm not running in slime 17:08:35 what is the other thread? 17:08:36 ok, it works, the commented :toplevel-function confused me 17:08:53 because i uncommented it 17:09:02 oh, ok 17:09:09 my memories are a bit rusty 17:09:31 just met gbyers today. Great guy. 17:10:25 have you convinced him to make add single-threaded functionality? 17:11:10 haven't even tried. 17:11:26 anyway, at least your thingy now works 17:11:32 but single-threaded-ccl is unlikely to stop working. 17:11:48 so single-threaded-toplevel starts a thread? 17:12:01 now, to make ccl executables compressible in the way SBCL does, and i'll be happy completely 17:12:38 you mean, as with upx or gzexe? 17:13:04 why not just use them? 17:13:19 when sbcl is built with zlib, you can just pass :compression t to save-lisp-and-die, which is nice 17:15:50 anfab [~chatzilla@122.167.174.169] has joined #lisp 17:15:52 ISTR that hunchentoot or restas had something like a per-special variable; I want to store an error message and call the function that generates the form again to print it 17:16:37 Fare: sbcl's own compression makes sbcl start up faster 17:16:39 I'm pretty sure UPX will give you the same benefit without having to do anything special 17:16:50 1- dump your executable, 2- run upx, 3- profit 17:16:52 as compared to gzexe 17:17:05 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:17:22 will compress code segments as well as data segments 17:18:23 m looking to start sicp and would like to know what language would be best for going through that book. I started with clojure but feel like sticking with whatever was recommended in teh book 17:18:41 sbcl fails after being compressed by upx 17:19:21 gzexe is primitive in comparison 17:19:31 stassats: what about ccl? 17:19:40 well, gzexe compresses SBCL actually better than UPX 17:19:42 I suggest: fix upx 17:20:11 I'm sure gzexe compresses better -- but it's also a security hole and maintenance hassle as it decompresses to file rather than to memory 17:20:22 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 17:20:24 -!- nonduality [~nondualit@77.117.247.208.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:44 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: cya] 17:20:59 doesn't work with ccl either 17:21:05 and/or fix ccl and/or sbcl to use proper linking rather than appending to end of executable as a way to embed the image 17:21:18 so that upx will work 17:21:45 cmucl might be doing it properly 17:21:57 i'm not into so much caring 17:23:14 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-pgmnrmjfbxymzrty] has joined #lisp 17:24:03 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 17:26:33 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-18.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:35 -!- jasox [~jasox@effic.me] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:57 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 17:32:07 jasox [~jasox@effic.me] has joined #lisp 17:32:32 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32:40 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 17:33:09 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-154-219.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:43 I'm missing something fundamental about strings and sequences. From what I've read, strings *are* sequences, but when futzing around with parenscript, I inevitably end up hitting "value X is not of type sequence" when passing strings to ps macros. Maybe this would be better asked in paste/gist form. 17:38:04 it would be 17:38:12 clintm: strings are vectors, vectors are sequences. 17:38:28 What is the value X? 17:39:03 -!- bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:52 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:40:18 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:18 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.21] has joined #lisp 17:42:21 http://paste.lisp.org/ 17:42:21 leoncamel [~user@219.142.133.204] has joined #lisp 17:45:05 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:45:12 anfab: clojure, common lisp and scheme are fine for sicp, they use only lambdas and closures there 17:46:13 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:49 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:47:25 clintm: "... value X ..." X is a symbol and not a sequence 17:47:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-121.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:34 flaviori_ [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 17:47:51 symbols are not strings. 17:48:15 -!- flaviori_ is now known as flavioribeiro 17:48:46 coder' : that's the root of the problem, I think. I'm going to poke at it some more and see if I can't figure it out for myself. 17:49:00 clintm: looks like you're quoting X 17:51:18 coder`: thanks 17:52:30 -!- Kwucks [ca091892@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.9.24.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:54:03 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 17:55:28 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:56:20 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 17:57:07 paste is at: http://paste.lisp.org/display/130595 walking away from it to get more coffee and think about it. 17:57:09 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:58:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.19.24] has joined #lisp 17:58:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.19.24] has quit [Changing host] 17:58:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:01:12 where's the error message? 18:01:28 and the backtrace? 18:03:05 why are those things macros? 18:03:29 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 18:03:31 annotated with the backtrace and error message. 18:04:13 I have hunchentoot:*catch-errors-p* T set, but it seems that (unwind-protect) cleanup things are not called. 18:04:59 flip214: are you sure? 18:05:24 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 18:05:27 well, the directory that I try to cleanup (although using delete-file, as there's no delete-directory) is not removed 18:05:53 is it empty? 18:05:57 yes 18:06:22 of course, things that would be put inside I try to clean up before ;) 18:07:05 hmmm, a (TRACE) on (delete-file) isn't printed... although I'm not sure I should see that in the REPL 18:07:06 clintm` [~user@001e52f0de2b.click-network.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:12 -!- clintm [u1741@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tsyoaesjrzumjmsu] has left #lisp 18:07:14 perhaps hunchentoot eats that somewhere 18:07:21 clintm: try: (defmacro m (a) (print a) '(print '(see what I mean?))) 18:07:31 and (m element) 18:07:31 -!- clintm` is now known as clintm 18:08:07 the trace on the (restas) outer function only shows an enter, not a leave 18:08:36 maybe just use cl-fad:delete-directory-and-files 18:08:50 clintm: compare with (defmacro m2 (a) `(progn (print '(and now ,a)) (print ,a) )) (let ((element '(1 2 3))) (m2 element)) 18:09:16 iamalexalright [~iamalexal@rrcs-108-178-167-254.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:09:39 In conclusion: why a macro? 18:09:48 delete-file doesn't really work for directories 18:10:27 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 18:10:29 stassats: according to trace it isn't even called? 18:10:39 what trace? 18:11:12 oh, on delete-file, have you looked in *inferior-lisp*? 18:11:13 I said that I want (delete-file) traced via swank 18:11:32 -!- leoncamel [~user@219.142.133.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:11:34 stassats: I'm on vim with slimv, there's only an inferior lisp ;/ 18:11:49 [Condition of type QL-HTTP:UNEXPECTED-HTTP-STATUS] is what the code generated 18:12:11 ie. (ql-http:fetch) gets a non-existing URL (-> 404) 18:12:25 sb-posix:rmdir doesn't work either 18:12:41 which that you put it in the wrong place 18:12:44 which means 18:12:50 svedubois [~Sven@xdsl-188-155-123-49.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 18:13:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:14:36 (unwind-protect (progn .....) (ignore-errors (delete-file ...) (sb-posix:rmdir ...))) 18:15:13 that means you put _this_ in the wrong place 18:15:26 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 18:16:38 (inferior-shell:run `(rm -rf ,directory)) 18:16:55 tell that to windows 18:18:08 (inferior-shell:run (if (asdf:os-windows-p) `(rmdir /s ,directory) `(rm -rf ,directory))) 18:19:01 rmdir /s /q even 18:19:02 i have no coreutils installed, what now? 18:19:53 use iolib 18:19:53 pjb: ah ha! Ok, yes, I get it. And I also understand the 'why a macro'. Man, now I'm really glad I asked. 18:20:14 saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA11F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:20:17 Fare: well, the earlier mentioned cl-fad:delete-directory-and-files works ok 18:21:07 cl-fad is full of bugs. Or at least was last time I looked at it. 18:21:18 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 18:21:23 have you reported them? 18:21:33 like, the whole thing was a bug 18:21:44 functions behaving in wildly different ways on different implementations 18:21:53 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:06 instead, I implemented the subset I needed, correctly -- as part of asdf. 18:22:27 pjb: thank you, by the way. Almost forgot my manners. 18:22:27 well, if nobody reports anything, how do you expect it to get fixed? 18:22:37 clintm: you're welcome. 18:22:45 after I reported one bug and got very bad reception, I decided it was not worth it 18:23:05 I recommend you use iolib for anything serious 18:24:03 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:24:15 I do not condone the use of joke libraries 18:24:26 without a committed maintainer 18:24:43 -!- vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 18:24:47 s/joke/toy/ 18:24:55 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:24:56 with tracing I see that my function is called, then I see the (RESTAS::MAYBE-INVOKE-DEBUGGER #) call .. 18:25:05 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 18:25:12 but the things within my unwind-protect are not triggered 18:25:14 hmmm 18:25:22 vhost- [~vhost@robodance.kyleterry.com] has joined #lisp 18:25:22 -!- vhost- [~vhost@robodance.kyleterry.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:25:22 vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has joined #lisp 18:25:48 flip214: is it run in the same thread? 18:25:54 Fare: it's open-source, i don't think anybody should be committed to the way you like things 18:26:10 stassats, that's what edi said. 18:26:20 Fare: what do you mean, exactly? hunchentoot uses multiple threads IIRC ... and swank has its own threads 18:26:29 but the whole function uses only a single thread, yes 18:26:39 flip214, your unwind-protect is in the same thread as the function call? 18:26:58 as the function that error's? yes 18:27:57 stassats, I stand by olin's regex library preface: the world would be better if instead of 10 programmers each writing 10 half-assed libraries, they would each write but one library, but make it the best possible. 18:28:20 Fare: and edi is not the maintainer of ediware anymore 18:28:39 stassats, hopefully, cl-fad has improved since. 18:28:47 Fare: so, did you write such a library? 18:28:49 ah no, that was an artifact of my tries ... 18:28:56 stassats, I wrote a few 18:29:09 restas:maybe-inv-deb calls hunchentoot:maybe-inv-deb 18:29:14 Fare: no, i meant as a replacement to cl-fad 18:30:11 but I don't get a return line for restas:maybe-inv-deb 18:30:15 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:18 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:30:40 asdf, asdf-encodings, asdf-finalizers, cl-launch, fare-csv, fare-memoization, inferior-shell, lambda-reader, meta, scribble, single-threaded-ccl 18:30:48 they are a few libraries that I stand for. 18:31:39 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:32:30 -!- quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:33:00 and then they are a few more that may not be complete, but I have no reason to be ashamed of. asdf-bundle, asdf-dependency-grovel, command-line-arguments, exscribe, fare-matcher, fare-mop, fare-utils, lisp-interface-library, poiu, reader-interception, rpm, workout-timer, xcvb 18:33:20 I am fully committed to get any bug fixed in a timely fashion. 18:33:33 that's good, but what about cl-fad? 18:33:47 and to have a good design that makes sense and an implementation that doesn't do wildly different things on different implementations. 18:34:27 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:35:23 stassats, apart from delete-directory-and-files, which I haven't tried to implement (portably), all its other functions are implemented by asdf or xcvb-driver. 18:36:01 oh, copy-file also isn't exactly what I've implemented 18:36:25 I'm sure I'd disapprove of how it was implemented in cl-fad, too. 18:36:35 I'm all for atomic replacement of files. 18:36:57 anything else is asking for trouble when your processes get killed. 18:37:19 fare-utils has with-maybe-new-file. 18:37:43 *Fare* should spawn more stuff out of fare-utils, now that quicklisp makes small libraries a good idea again. 18:38:25 -!- svedubois [~Sven@xdsl-188-155-123-49.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:27 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:28 yep don't intersperse your fbi code all over the files! 18:38:29 how does hunchentoot manage to _not_ fall into the swank debug hook? 18:38:52 lol 18:39:23 svedubois [~Sven@xdsl-188-155-123-49.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 18:39:39 flip214: because you set *catch-errors-p* to T? 18:39:56 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:39:57 -!- vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 18:40:17 that's the configuration, but what does hunchentoot do? I see the (unless *catch-errors-p* (invoke-debugger condition)) 18:40:31 but why doesn't swank get used after that? 18:40:45 vhost- [~vhost@robodance.kyleterry.com] has joined #lisp 18:40:45 -!- vhost- [~vhost@robodance.kyleterry.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:40:45 vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has joined #lisp 18:40:56 invoke-debugger invokes the swank debugger 18:41:03 if it isn't run, it's not invoked 18:41:26 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-154-219.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:46:49 -!- vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 18:47:00 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 18:47:07 hmmm, (trace signal) isn't a good idea 18:47:14 invoke-debugger isn't run, right 18:47:16 vhost- [~vhost@robodance.kyleterry.com] has joined #lisp 18:47:16 -!- vhost- [~vhost@robodance.kyleterry.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:47:16 vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has joined #lisp 18:47:32 jackhammer2022 [~textual@c-71-234-45-223.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:33 but it looks like the complete thread (or at least stack) is thrown away at that point 18:47:43 -!- jackhammer2022 [~textual@c-71-234-45-223.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:47:59 jackhammer2022 [~textual@c-71-234-45-223.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:36 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 18:54:04 fms [~fms@38.111.144.18] has joined #lisp 18:54:06 -!- svedubois [~Sven@xdsl-188-155-123-49.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:56:05 so, got it 18:56:28 -!- fms is now known as ebobby 18:56:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:57:17 rotatef rocks. 18:57:35 problem was that the cleanup-clause had (ignore-errors (delete-file ...) (sb-posix:rmdir ...)) 18:57:36 CL code can be so much nicer than in other languages. 18:57:49 but if the file wasn't created yet, the delete-file aborted the whole cleanup clause 18:58:06 then have two separate ignore-errors 18:58:52 or probe-file 18:59:04 I just got bit by a similar thing this afternoon: used ingore-errors instead of handling a condition and it hid an unrelated problem 18:59:16 of course, it could become deleted after probe-file 18:59:29 fare: yes, of course. 18:59:36 Vivitron: it's a shame CL doesn't define a comprehensive set of conditions 18:59:55 open DSL ? 18:59:58 stassats: heh, I'm fixing the issue before I push! 19:00:01 What I think is strange is that trace didn't show the delete-file _starting_ 19:00:10 stassats, how could it possibly? Underlying technology can always have more conditions. 19:00:18 so open 19:00:49 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:58 Fare: underlying technology can provide more fine conditions, but higher level hierarchy would still be more useful 19:01:36 what if I have CONS raise out-of-memory errors? Am I going to add this one to each and every function on the spec? 19:01:48 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:02:13 you can have just one out-of-memory condition defined globally 19:02:15 what if I add new errors for "trying to read (resp. write) something you don't (or shouldn't) have the capability to read (resp. write)"? 19:02:25 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:02:31 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.251.190.138] has joined #lisp 19:02:35 plenty of cross-concern systems can add plenty of cross-concern conditions 19:02:41 mstevens [~mstevens@osaka.etla.org] has joined #lisp 19:02:41 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@osaka.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 19:02:41 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:02:51 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:53 trying to establish a set of conditions in advance is idiotic 19:03:04 the reason that it cannot be done perfectly is not a reason to not do it at all 19:03:27 it presumes that you know exactly what level of abstraction is used throughout not just your module, but all modules above or below 19:03:49 it flies in the face of modularity 19:04:06 i don't what it presumes, but delete-file could signal file-not-exists instead of just file-error 19:04:15 now, if you can have your declaration somehow matched to some notion of modularity, that's different 19:04:57 so, finished ... error is caught and printed to the user in a nice box 19:04:58 and then you could conceivably have something like the PLT contract system not just catch wrongful exceptions, but say WHO is to blame for it. 19:05:00 fredrik_ [~fredrik@vpn12.hotsplots.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:22 stassats, if you want good errors portably, use iolib 19:05:35 where "portably" means "not on windows" 19:05:43 i don't see how having more fine condition hierarchy would break any modularity 19:05:44 there is a port of iolib to windows 19:05:56 it could certainly use some love and/or some merging 19:05:59 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:02 Fare: iolib doesn't re-implement the whole of CL 19:06:18 stassats, it implements a good chunk -- and it's the right place to fix things. 19:07:14 stassats, fine condition hierarchy is fine. "declaring what conditions can be thrown" is idiotic. Especially in presence of higher-order functions. 19:07:32 i don't think i can trust iolib than i trust SBCL 19:07:36 more than 19:07:45 both have bugs 19:07:57 you're a programmer - don't trust, fix bugs. 19:08:08 yes, i fix bugs in SBCL 19:08:40 *Fare* is reminded of nikodemus promising us a nice portable i/o library. 19:08:47 I'm not holding my breath 19:09:09 if you mean by "declaring what conditions can be thrown" you mean like Java does, then i certainly didn't suggest it 19:09:13 and I really need co-developers because the scope of iolib is getting larger & larger :) 19:09:49 fe[nl]ix, I think that especially in the days of quicklisp, you should split it into smaller libraries somehow. 19:09:59 Fare: what promise are you talking about ? 19:10:50 Fare: please, not again. everything depends on iolib.syscalls's internals to the point that I'd have to do coördinated releases anyway 19:10:57 fe[nl]ix, http://www.indiegogo.com/SBCL-Threading-Improvements-1 19:10:58 no point in doing that 19:11:00 yes, and iolib can't even get a new release, as much as i don't like releases, it's good having for something that crucial 19:11:24 stassats: fair point 19:11:36 fe[nl]ix, depends on how you layer stuff. And coordinated release is better than no modularity. 19:12:11 in other news, lisp-interface-library is taking shape 19:12:25 after pure functional datastructures, now stateful ones. 19:12:40 pure stateful? 19:12:44 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.146.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:53 just stateful 19:14:29 ikki [~ikki@187.193.146.40] has joined #lisp 19:14:38 svedubois [~Sven@xdsl-188-155-123-49.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:15:30 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:15:54 -!- ratzez [~rz@21.Red-83-33-81.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ratzez] 19:21:00 *sykopomp* wonders where MADEIRA is. 19:21:13 the indiegogo page says MADEIRA is go, but all I've found is MADEIRA-PORT 19:21:43 somewhere in atlantic ocean 19:21:54 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-141-210.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:23:32 -!- svedubois [~Sven@xdsl-188-155-123-49.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:24:09 somewhere in nikodemus's procrastination. 19:24:26 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 19:24:33 -!- jackhammer2022 [~textual@c-71-234-45-223.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:24:36 Don't worry, a lot of the promised portable features are in xcvb-driver 19:24:48 bordeaux-threads 19:24:52 iolib 19:25:18 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:25:36 I saw that post about potential CAS support in bordeaux-threads. Has anyone made a push in that direction? 19:26:02 no 19:26:06 I find myself in a position of really wanting to have mostly-portable lockless queues. 19:26:10 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 19:26:31 sykopomp, probably not -- but you could "just" do it by importing the stuff from SBCL, then making it raise an error in other implementations 19:26:50 Fare: I'd rather have a lock-ful default implementation. 19:27:01 yeah, that too 19:27:11 that'd be step two 19:27:22 would it be a welcome patch to BT? 19:27:28 definitely 19:27:47 bordeaux-threads has had quite a few patches lately -- the maintainers seem to be serious 19:28:33 great 19:28:56 Fare: the "maintainers" is me 19:29:04 fe[nl]ix, congrats, then! 19:29:08 hahaha 19:29:12 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 19:29:19 funny? 19:29:55 fe[nl]ix: are github pull requests acceptable for your github projects, btw? 19:30:05 speaking in third person of somebody who is attending, very much 19:30:35 sykopomp: no. send a patch to the list and it will be reviewed by several people 19:30:53 ok 19:31:09 fe[nl]ix, sorry, I hadn't realized it was you 19:31:43 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA11F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:31:44 Fare: no problem, you made my day :D 19:32:14 maybe fe[nl]ix is laughing because he actually isn't serious 19:32:36 svedubois [~Sven@xdsl-188-155-123-49.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:32:38 -!- Eulo [~no@78-72-37-188-no21.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:32:52 I'm a jester 19:33:29 if fe[nl]ix were truly serious, he wouldn't have a cat with a watermelon as his picture 19:33:48 hahaha 19:33:51 wait, you mean, fe[nl]ix isn't actually a cat in a watermelon? 19:34:02 what's not serious about a cat with a watermelon? 19:34:13 puss'n'melon 19:34:18 anything with a cat is serious 19:35:18 #sillisp 19:36:43 Eulo [~no@78-72-37-188-no21.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:39:20 ska2342 [~ska@p4FC8BA81.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:43:21 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:43:28 ok, got mutable avl trees for lil 19:44:20 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:46:37 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:46:49 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:47:04 ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:48:28 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 19:49:03 sykopomp: more precisely, pull requests are fine except for bordeaux-threads 19:50:00 trigen_ [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:3800:3f5d:2bd6:7949] has joined #lisp 19:50:27 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.251.190.138] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:50:30 -!- trigen [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:34bf:3f5d:2bd6:7949] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:50:54 -!- anfab [~chatzilla@122.167.174.169] has left #lisp 19:52:10 hi. can someone help me reading 16 bit integer from the process-ouput of another program? It's easy reading them from a file, but I can't find a way to do so from another prog (w/o doing the bit-twiddling myself, that is) 19:52:28 -!- svedubois [~Sven@xdsl-188-155-123-49.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:40 you have to bit-twiddle to read it from a file, too (if you enjoy predictability) 19:53:27 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: this computer sucks] 19:53:58 ska2342, nibbles is a great library for bit diddling. 19:54:16 since I call the other program (sox to extract raw bytes from a flac) myself, I can create any output I want. Using ":element-type '(signed-byte 16)" worked fine during the testing phase, when I had the input created once on the cmd line. 19:54:59 (spawned off ironclad) 19:55:04 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.204.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:26 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-51.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:55:54 Xach: when is the next quicklisp release? which asdf will it use? 19:56:05 I don't update ASDF 19:56:12 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:56:15 The next release will be the first weekend in August, hopefully. 19:56:20 you now use the one from the implementation? 19:56:34 If available, otherwise it fetches one. 19:56:51 I stopped updating the one Quicklisp provided when it started to require special casing and multiple files on ECL 19:57:08 special casing? multiple files on ECL? 19:57:10 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.251.190.138] has joined #lisp 19:57:43 uh, asdf has *always* been slightly weird on ecl, since before I've been maintaining it 19:57:55 if anything, I've tried to move all the special ECL support to asdf-bundle 19:58:01 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 19:58:36 how is that worse now than it was when you last upgraded asdf? 19:59:04 ECL does have some uncommon extensions 19:59:22 (admittedly, asdf-bundle itself might be better moved to a single file, so it's pre-bundled) 19:59:48 yes but they are not necessary for everyday operations, and you can recover them all by loading asdf-bundle. 20:00:28 -!- trigen_ [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:3800:3f5d:2bd6:7949] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:00:38 Is asdf-ecl.lisp optional? 20:00:49 It should be, on recent-enough asdf. 20:01:05 I'll look into updating sometime then. 20:01:31 (if not, it's definitely a bug) 20:01:42 (I don't have a test for it in the regression test suite yet, though) 20:02:30 trigen [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:3800:3f5d:2bd6:7949] has joined #lisp 20:02:35 looking at the source for asdf-ecl.lisp, nothing there is necessary for normal operations, and all is present in asdf-bundle 20:03:40 I'd say use 2.22 or later for best ecl support w/o asdf-ecl.lisp 20:05:21 Kron_ [~Kron@84.255.129.104] has joined #lisp 20:05:22 and, btw. Once again. thanks for quicklisp. 20:06:02 no problem 20:07:02 *Fare* is eager to see asdf 2.23 more widely distributed and people relying on asdf-finalizers. 20:07:18 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:11:44 punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:13 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-229-92.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 20:13:36 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 20:15:14 Really? Relying on ASDF more seems like a bad idea. 20:15:18 It will soon be replaced. 20:15:51 -!- nha [~prefect@f052239230.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:16:08 antonv_ [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 20:16:13 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has left #lisp 20:16:56 Xach: you mean ASDF version update, or replaced completely by XCVB or by something else? 20:17:21 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:17:55 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:18:06 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:18:20 -!- jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:19:52 So, is there a practical reason why (list* 1) => 1 is a good thing? 20:20:03 sykopomp, yes 20:20:20 CL accepts improper lists 20:21:01 Xach: you mean, replaced by XCVB? I wish. By improving ASDF, I've only made its eventual replacement further away 20:21:30 besides, it won't be hard to add finalizers support to XCVB 20:21:37 it's on my TODO list for next week 20:22:04 Fare: I guess I just don't see a real situation where it would come in handy. I'm sort of surprised list* takes less than two arguments at all. 20:22:21 sykopomp, I can imagine plenty of such situations 20:22:35 Fare: I believe you. Do you have an example? 20:22:39 I'm pretty sure fare-matcher recognizes this case when matching against list* 20:22:59 I think fare-quasiquote might be using list*, too 20:23:00 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:24:49 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:24:56 yup, they do 20:25:23 so, quasiquoting, for instance, relies on list* 20:27:07 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:05 eval layer, funcall and apply layer... 20:30:12 tty882 [~tony@5ac37acc.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 20:30:16 uy uy uyyy 20:30:33 sykopomp: it makes apply of list* safer. 20:31:18 *Fare* should add a pretty-printer to his fare-quasiquote 20:32:00 If I had to do it, I'd go with (apply #'list* foo bar list-of-stuff) rather than list*/append. 20:35:10 puchacz_ [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:35:30 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping 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has quit [Client Quit] 21:07:42 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:52 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:07:56 rbarraud [~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:08:42 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:26 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:27 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.204.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:17:58 ravster [~user@184.175.28.107] has joined #lisp 21:18:01 Hello all 21:18:27 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:19:28 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:19:31 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:52 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 21:21:15 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:22:12 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:55 *wbooze* raves! 21:23:13 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-231-14.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:10 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:24:31 -!- nha [~prefect@f052239195.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:24:52 lol 21:25:13 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-226-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:25:27 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:26:38 JPeterso2 [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:27:09 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-174.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:17 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-174.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 21:27:22 srcerer_ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 21:27:24 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: bye] 21:28:32 -!- tty882 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[~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-181.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:21 How do I refer to a file that is in the same directory from which I started the REPL? 21:41:47 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has left #lisp 21:43:59 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:59 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:43:59 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 21:45:06 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.146.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:46:37 -!- srcerer_ is now known as srcerer 21:46:59 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-pgmnrmjfbxymzrty] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:52:49 "file" 21:55:17 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-sdldirkegxuepdaa] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:58:02 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:13 punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:14 -!- killerboy 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homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-155-181.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:32:56 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176313909.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:33:02 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:33:22 -!- qsun_ [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:33:36 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 22:34:34 qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has joined #lisp 22:36:07 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176313909.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:37:41 -!- harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:38:12 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:38:22 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:34 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:40:14 is there a function that creates a list by enumerating? e.g. (seq 1 3) would give '(1 2 3) 22:40:26 I don't want to redefine standard stuff 22:40:46 not in the standard, but there's IOTA in alexandria. 22:41:32 Bike: thanks. 22:43:19 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@84.255.129.104] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 22:44:06 what about lazy streams? 22:44:41 Like SICP? 22:44:53 Bike: yes 22:45:16 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 22:45:22 no. You could define it yourself, or use a library like CLAZY. 22:45:38 Bike: OK. 22:47:47 (loop for i from 1 to 3 collect i) is all you need 22:48:10 another newbie question: If I want to use a function that has &rest arguments, and I have already a list of arguments, is (eval (cons fun args)) the most idiomatic way? 22:48:12 stassats: 22:48:15 thanks 22:48:28 eval is basically never idiomatic. you want apply. 22:49:01 bitonic: eval is the worst way, you can get your Lisp license revoked for using for such things 22:49:11 stassats: I don't have a lisp license :P 22:49:18 I'm just fooling around with slime. 22:49:21 Bike: thanks 22:49:41 then a fine of some sort 22:55:38 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:39 -!- flashback [fb@bitchx/dev/flashback] has left #lisp 22:55:43 nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has joined #lisp 22:56:38 -!- iLogical is now known as AllahSnackbar 22:58:19 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:58:28 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:45 wow. the loop macro interface is quite vaste 23:00:13 hehe 23:00:36 Entire nations went to war on account of the loop facility :) 23:00:49 Sorella [~quildreen@189-13-90-225.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 23:00:50 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@189-13-90-225.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 23:00:50 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 23:01:27 I'm a bit lost yeah 23:01:53 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 23:02:04 reading PCL? 23:02:58 -!- punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: punee] 23:03:23 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 23:03:24 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:03:29 Bike: no, reading the grammar in the hyperspec. maybe that was a wrong idea 23:04:34 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/loop-for-black-belts.html might be better for you as an introduction. 23:04:50 yeah. thanks. 23:05:53 I get the feeling that most of the easy project euler problems can be expressed in terms of `loop' :P 23:06:07 -!- fsmunoz [~user@bl5-62-180.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:07:43 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.251.190.138] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 23:08:04 kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 23:08:07 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:09:52 -!- scrimohsin [~scrimohsi@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: scrimohsin] 23:09:56 -!- AllahSnackbar is now known as ilogical 23:10:02 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.251.190.138] has joined #lisp 23:11:00 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:43 Kwucks [ca091892@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.9.24.146] has joined #lisp 23:13:11 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 23:13:21 most of the easy problems can be solved on paper with a pencil 23:13:38 bitonic: then, as an extra challenge, try to express them in terms of FORMAT format strings  they form a Turing-complete language. 23:13:50 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-lruhlzqcjotznquk] has joined #lisp 23:13:56 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:13:58 no! 23:14:03 antoszka: they do? 23:14:28 stassats: That's what I read somewhere (and never tried verified, though). 23:14:43 s/tried// 23:14:52 they write all kind of stuff somewhere 23:15:28 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:20:19 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-48/mail-archive/msg00043.html  here might be where I read taht 23:21:02 Though I think I came across that notion in a few other places. 23:21:32 call me when you come across an actual proof 23:21:46 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:17 sure, I'm curious myself now 23:23:52 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:24:01 *|3b|* couldn't figure out how to save enough state with a format string, unless you can somehow encode it in the output column or something 23:25:17 <|3b|> though maybe you could build a sort of interpreter out of the format string and program it with the arguments 23:28:41 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:03 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has joined #lisp 23:35:29 -!- sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:35:42 sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has joined #lisp 23:37:24 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:39:07 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:41:35 clintm [~user@001e52f0de2b.click-network.com] has joined #lisp 23:44:20 bitonic: all the programs can be expressed with a single instruction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_instruction_set_computer 23:44:35 pjb: yeah yeah, iota and all that. 23:45:17 No, not iota, SBLE 23:45:20 jasom [~aidenn@ip72-194-213-200.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:03 before I dig into how to make it work, do any of you happen to have a special bit of elisp love that makes lisp-mode not indent some cl-who tags up to what seems a bajillion spaces? I found a page a while back that had a section about it, but I can't seem to find it now. 23:46:31 pjb: well iota is a turing-complete combinator :) 23:46:40 I'm not sure what SBLE is 23:48:57 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:49:42 bitonic: ok. So far, (iota 3) --> (0 1 2) 23:52:59 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:56:20 SBLE = Subtract and Branch if Less or Equal to 0. 23:56:25 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 23:57:16 -!- RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-66-77-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:58:33 http://wcook.blogspot.com/2012/07/proposal-for-simplified-modern.html 23:58:45 it appears, they still don't know what objects are.