00:05:12 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 00:05:48 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:06:44 would anyone happen to have any advice on how to load contrib/sockets.lisp in a standard way, in MKCL? Trying to define a quicklisp implementation package for MKCL 00:07:17 *|3b|* would expect REQUIRE to work on implementation contribs 00:08:08 <|3b|> yeah, http://common-lisp.net/project/mkcl/ says use REQUIRE 00:08:08 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:08:21 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:08:23 |3b| ahh my mistake for not checking the docs, thx 00:08:33 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 00:09:57 tanderson1 [~thayer@pool-173-48-186-60.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:09 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:14:00 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:23 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:14:57 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:15:09 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:15:44 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 00:19:27 alvis [~user@tx-184-6-177-129.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:51 -!- carlo_au [~carlo@ppp59-167-11-29.lns1.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:25:42 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-racxkuuuojpaspfe] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 00:26:27 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:47 <|3b|> does the new (:struct foo) syntax work on older versions of cffi where foo by itself would have worked?? 00:31:51 lebro [~monx@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:16 <|3b|> (assuming FOO names a defcstruct type) 00:34:56 carlo_au [~carlo@ppp59-167-11-29.lns1.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:40 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 00:40:26 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 00:45:24 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 00:48:09 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-207-14.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 00:50:25 _sigjuice [3fe94cfe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.233.76.254] has joined #lisp 00:50:53 <_sigjuice> Hi 00:51:10 |3b|: Not to my knowledge. That's what makes it new. :P 00:51:49 <|3b|> well, (:pointer foo) has been around for a while as a synonym for :pointer, so (:struct foo) might have existed too 00:52:30 Archenoth [~Archenoth@96.51.223.95] has joined #lisp 00:52:42 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:02 <|3b|> will be annoying if i can't update code to the new syntax though, if it is going to spam warnings at runtime when i don't 00:53:22 <|3b|> and not run at all for other people with older cffi if i do 00:57:24 Yeah. But at least they're just style-warnings for now. Annoying, but not a showstopper. 00:58:12 <|3b|> they can delay the show pretty drastically though, takes a while to print a few tens of thousands of warnings :/ 00:58:24 <|3b|> worse if it is actually happening in the display loop 00:58:57 Ah. Well then, you've got /way/ more of those than I do. 01:02:00 Muffle simple-style-warnings? Override #'CFFI::PARSE-DEPRECATED-STRUCT-TYPE and yank out the warning? Convince CFFI maintainers to give the warning its own type, so you can muffle it specifically? 01:02:55 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:04:42 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-75.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 01:06:31 <|3b|> if i were going to hack around it i'd just download an older cffi instead 01:06:54 Fair enough. 01:07:37 *|3b|* already made the mistake of not doing that though, so now i've got to deal with trying to not push code that needs new cffi to github or whatever :( 01:10:36 -!- tanderson1 [~thayer@pool-173-48-186-60.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 01:11:07 head of one project depending on the head of another? How pre-quicklisp! :) 01:11:48 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-75.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 01:11:57 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-75.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 01:13:44 <|3b|> yeah, i need to switch this machine to quicklisp one of these days, and just ignore changes in other libs until ql gets them :/ 01:16:12 -!- carlo_au [~carlo@ppp59-167-11-29.lns1.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:16:22 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:16:37 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:42 -!- alvis [~user@tx-184-6-177-129.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:17:01 -!- alvis` [~user@tx-184-6-177-129.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 01:20:14 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 01:24:16 does anyone have a good generic protocol for "forwarding" methods? I have pretty deep parent-child-subchild hierarchies, and sometimes want to given the n-level-deep child, I want to retrieve some attribute of topmost parent 01:25:25 so I end up writing bunch of "forwarder" methods, ie (defmethod attr-of ((obj some-inner-child-class) whatever) (attr-of (parent-1-of (parent-2 (parent-3 of obj))))) 01:25:30 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-95.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:26:00 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-154-95.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:26:40 -!- Sorella_ is now known as Sorella 01:27:11 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@189-13-90-225.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 01:27:11 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 01:27:16 so I was thinking of using an :around on no-applicable-method, to see if 1st arg is of some tagged class, and if so come up with some generic forwarding mechanism. 01:28:46 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:29:14 maxm: if i want to pass lookup of FOO to something else, sometimes i have the reader FOO and the GF FOO-DELEGATE or whatever. So for a subclass, if it's supposed to look something up in a related instance that is stored in a slot (e.g. PARENT), it will be something like this 01:29:40 (defclass child () ((parent :reader parent :reader foo-delegate) ...)) 01:30:14 So the GF for FOO is something like checking if the slot exists or checking for a delegate or something 01:30:33 *Xach* suddenly feels incoherent 01:31:33 did not knew you can have multiple readers 01:31:46 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:32:42 -!- ofan [~ofan@unaffiliated/ofan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:32:49 *maxm* thought of maybe this could be a use case for allocation class slots 01:33:17 shit yeah. i use it all the time to implement protocols concisely. 01:33:37 am0c_ [~am0c@203.246.179.173] has joined #lisp 01:34:00 ofan [~ofan@unaffiliated/ofan] has joined #lisp 01:34:00 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:07 -!- 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[gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 01:51:03 xscc [~xscc@221.11.61.226] has joined #lisp 01:52:06 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:46 -!- xscc [~xscc@221.11.61.226] has quit [Client Quit] 01:53:12 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:53:21 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:53:29 dmizzle [~dmizzle@c-76-23-19-120.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:54:26 ice [~ice@123.114.39.237] has joined #lisp 01:54:31 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:11 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 02:01:35 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:29 lebro [~lebro@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:26 ha http://paste.lisp.org/display/130578 <- works 02:09:42 thanks for multiple reader suggestion Xach 02:09:47 -!- iamalexalright [~iamalexal@rrcs-24-43-27-165.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:14:13 <|3b|> is that conforming code? 02:14:19 folks, if I buy lispworks for MacOSX, can I deliver apps for other platforms? 02:14:28 i.e. windows or linux 02:14:40 *|3b|* knows you aren't allowed to specialize CL classes, not sure about :around methods in same situation though 02:14:55 <|3b|> leo2007: probably better to ask lispworks sales that sort of thing 02:15:27 |3b|: yes, but I was hoping someone may have experience to give me a quick answer ;) 02:16:41 |3b|: I've come to expect that anything cool is probably disallowed soewhere in CLHS :-) kind of like everything that tastes good is bad for you 02:17:22 What does 'specialize CL classes' mean? 02:17:23 clhs says The generic function no-applicable-method is not intended to be called by programmers. Programmers may write methods for it 02:17:23 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for says The generic function no-applicable-method is not intended to be called by programmers. Programmers may write methods for it. 02:18:12 <|3b|> Zhivago: oops, seems to have dropped a few words there :( "specialize CL GFs on only CL classes" 02:18:22 <|3b|> odd, same words disappeared when i tried to retype it 02:18:31 *|3b|* wonders what key i hit that i didn't know i hit 02:19:19 wait, what's the possible nonconformance? 02:19:24 So you believe that (defmethod x ((y integer)) 0) is not permitted? 02:19:25 <|3b|> maxm: right, you can write methods on lots of GFs defined by the spec, you just need to specialize them on your own classes 02:19:38 <|3b|> Zhivago: only if that is cl:x 02:20:00 Ah. You mean you cannot add methods to CL package generic functions. 02:20:02 oh, writing an unspecialized method on a CL GF. 02:20:44 <|3b|> Bike: or specialized on only classes defined by the spec (which includes "unspecialized" since that implicitly means specialized on cl:t) 02:20:57 Unless otherwise specified, as for print-object, etc. 02:21:02 <|3b|> right 02:21:28 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21:36 actually yea you right 02:22:11 now if there was some easy way to simply tag your own generics with a class.. No sure what that entails 02:22:15 I see: "19. Defining a method for a standardized generic function which is applicable when all of the arguments are direct instances of standardized classes." in 11.1.2.1.2, so there you go 02:23:33 ie make all generics you defined (also the implicit ones as created by :reader :accessor etc), come out as my-generic-function rather then standard-generic-function, with my-generic-function being empty tag class inheriting the standard one 02:23:56 isn't the issue here your definition of no-applicable-method, rather than that? 02:24:30 <|3b|> maxm: probably lots of ways to make specific GFs behave that way, custom method combination, different metaclass, etc 02:24:33 Bike: yes it is, but I could fix it if my generic functions were of my own class 02:24:58 oh, then you just use the :generic-function-class option in defgeneric, no? 02:25:09 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:44 doh! 02:26:03 <|3b|> or just a macro that writes a method on no-applicable-method for that specific GF 02:26:19 somehow I came to assume that if there is something obviously useful, CLOS probably has some horrible contortions method to do it, rather thes simple one 02:26:24 thanks Bike 02:27:17 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 02:27:35 though I think a method combination might be better, like 3b said? dunno. this is a good way to overthink. 02:28:27 *maxm* has a lot riding on using standard method combination (ie lots of after/before/arounds) so I'd rather not get into custom ones 02:29:19 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 02:30:46 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:34:18 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 02:34:57 -!- dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 02:35:28 dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has joined #lisp 02:39:55 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Read error: 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#lisp 03:56:43 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:44 magnificrab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has joined #lisp 04:01:37 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:02:07 using cl-ftp, i get a socket bind error due to lack of permissions. what perms does sbcl need to be able to use sockets? 04:02:23 Consider the port number. 04:03:02 Zhivago: touche. 04:04:06 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 04:04:11 Zhivago: wouldn't the local socket be >1024 for a client conneciton though? 04:05:10 I have no idea what you're doing. 04:05:28 However, remember that ftp normally uses two sockets. 04:05:41 With separate data and control channels. 04:05:57 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:06:40 Zhivago: i'm using retrieve-file to attempt to retrieve a file off an ftp server 04:07:20 (retrieve-file *ftp-connection* "/path/to/file.zip" "file.zip" :type :binary) 04:09:52 Yes, and ftp normally uses separate data and control channels. 04:10:34 I suggest using strace to see what port you're attempting to bind. 04:11:48 You might also see if there's support for PASV mode. 04:12:08 That avoids the separate data connection issue. 04:12:24 there is pasv support 04:14:53 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:19:25 setting passive to t results in the same error, guessing it wants to bind to 21 04:23:28 rbarraud [~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:23:50 I suggest that you use strace instead of guessing. 04:24:21 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:24:27 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 04:24:43 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:27:29 Zhivago: interesting, it only fails when i try it in SLIME 04:27:58 -!- cfdm [~user@222.235.51.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:24 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-71-238-24-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:35:31 derekv [~derekv@c-71-238-24-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:06 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 04:40:46 -!- kanru [~kanru@66.207.208.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:44:39 -!- EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:47:32 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-27.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:47:46 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #lisp 04:47:46 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 04:47:46 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 04:48:37 pulse40 [~pulse40@c-98-198-237-163.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:53 -!- pulse40 [~pulse40@c-98-198-237-163.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit 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08:11:47 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:14:50 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 08:14:50 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:15:11 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:15:27 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:15:27 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:15:27 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:16:29 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 08:16:36 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@nat-sh-78.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 08:21:47 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-75.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:23:38 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 08:24:06 ice_ [~ice@123.123.250.80] has joined #lisp 08:24:32 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:25:16 Zhivago: you cannot write a method on cl:print-object specialized on a class defined in CL> 08:25:43 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 08:26:28 -!- ice [~ice@123.114.39.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:28:37 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.106.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:29:50 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 08:33:28 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:33:34 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.70.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:37:19 pjb: the standard says you can't, but implementations are free to allow it anyway, no? 08:37:48 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@173-22-6-159.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:38:15 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:39:14 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:39:30 [SLB] 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has joined #lisp 08:51:52 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012985.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:29 H4ns: yes. 08:54:50 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:55:00 H4ns: but notice that either they don't use it for CL types and classes, or if they use it, they probably already define the method, so you're cloberring it and will probably break printing. 08:55:27 Same, eg. for compiler macros defined on CL functions. 08:55:50 -!- xan_ [~xan@221.Red-2-136-166.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:55:58 -!- punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:56:15 Either the implementation doesn't define compiler macros on CL functions, and then the compiler just ignores them, or it does, and if you define a compiler macro on a CL function, you're cloberring the implemention provided one, probably breaking the compiler. 08:56:28 pjb: sure - it is still sometimes useful to do things that the specs says can't be done, e.g. trace stuff in cl or define a print-object method for debugging. 08:56:43 Sure, for debugging, anything goes. 08:57:10 Even for interaction at the REPL. 08:57:51 pinterface [~pinterfac@173-22-6-159.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 08:57:52 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.213.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:58:05 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:06 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-75.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 09:05:02 -!- Guest27347 [~unknown@524895DD.cm-4-1c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: quit] 09:05:32 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 09:05:38 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 09:05:40 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:06:35 Tasser [~freak@subtle/contributor/Tass] has joined #lisp 09:06:59 Are there some efforts to run lisp code in a JS vm / compile it to JS? 09:07:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:07:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:07:13 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 09:07:31 Tasser: Lisp in general or Common Lisp specifically? 09:07:48 Tasser: parenscript 09:08:04 Xach, informations on both would be interesting 09:09:11 wow 09:10:05 Parenscript is a DSL in CL that compiles to javascript. Jwacs is a javascript-with-gravy to javascript compiler in CL. I don't know of anything for straight CL to javascript. 09:10:34 Not what you asked about, but cl-js is neat. It's a javscript environment written in CL, so you can extend CL applications with javascript. 09:12:30 Xach, basically, I'm looking for something to run code on client and server side without the need to code in JS on the server 09:16:18 Tasser: parenscript exists to solve that problem. i'm doing it the other way round, though, and i can recommend that approach for one-person projects. 09:16:44 Tasser: (the other way round == use node.js to implement the server) 09:16:45 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.119.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:18:10 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.151.136] has joined #lisp 09:23:23 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:24:01 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@nat-sh-78.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:27:16 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:27:37 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:29:35 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[Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:55:01 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@164.108.82.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:55:07 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 10:00:28 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:02:51 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:02:54 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:36 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 10:07:20 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 10:07:27 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012985.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:08:03 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 10:08:54 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-110-78.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:12:24 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:17:56 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:18:12 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-124-178.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:12 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-124-178.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:18:12 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 10:27:49 bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 10:30:33 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-110-78.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:33:59 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 10:34:34 jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has joined #lisp 10:34:39 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:39:43 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A316.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:28 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:44:52 kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-vqihgguxegpxpizq] has joined #lisp 10:46:27 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 10:47:18 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-110-78.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:47:19 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:53:48 H4ns, logic isn't something you want to implement in js... do you? 10:54:13 Tasser: sure, why not? javascript is not all that bad. the syntax sucks, but the ecosystem is pretty nice. 10:55:10 Tasser: i've just implemented an online scrabble game in javascript and it was really nice to be able to share code between client and server. 10:55:27 but javascript is off topic here, so i'll stop my advertising now. feel free to /m :) 10:55:36 asvil [~asvil@178.120.63.79] has joined #lisp 10:56:07 -!- ice_ [~ice@123.123.250.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:59:26 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.235.76] has joined #lisp 10:59:44 -!- kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-vqihgguxegpxpizq] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:00:35 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 11:08:04 ice [~ice@123.123.250.49] has joined #lisp 11:08:20 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 11:09:02 Hello everyone! 11:09:06 hi 11:09:40 nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-203.math.tu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 11:10:40 punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:09 I have a little trouble: imagine that there's a function that needs to check it's argument with some function and if check-function returns nil, then function must return nil too. Is there's a way to do it w/o if/when or with macros(which is better way I think, as there are lots of functions that needs to do this)? RETURN in macros didn't work for me. 11:12:49 hitecnologys: use generic functions and :around ? 11:13:01 or your own (defun-and-check name (args) ...) ? 11:13:25 RETURN in a macro will work if you put a (block NIL ...) around 11:14:00 flip214: Hm, it's a good idea to use generic functions! Thanks a lot. 11:14:09 hitecnologys: usually, i don't want to return nil, but rather signal an error 11:14:36 hitecnologys: the condition system is there for that purpose, and it spares you from all the problems that you'll have when returning your error conditions inline as return values. 11:15:35 H4ns: Send error is good solution too, but in my case I need just to skip wrong value. 11:16:21 *hitecnologys* not sure which is correct: send or sending 11:16:32 signalling is correct 11:16:36 errors are not "sent" 11:16:37 OK. 11:18:56 -!- punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27:42 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 11:31:42 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 11:32:26 ferada [~ferada@dslb-094-219-152-220.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:19 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:41:57 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:43:15 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.63.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:45:07 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:46:53 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 11:47:15 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:02:10 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-116-143.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:22 kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-jsosqkzuuprfotcm] has joined #lisp 12:05:26 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 12:05:38 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:06:59 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 12:07:48 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:09:25 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-2cb4e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:09:58 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 12:11:18 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 12:13:00 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:13:23 antonv [2e35c344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.68] has joined #lisp 12:13:51 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-70.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:13:54 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@216.41.19.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:15:29 fsmunoz [~user@bl5-62-180.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 12:19:40 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-155-32.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:21:21 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:24 -!- kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-jsosqkzuuprfotcm] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:24:58 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 12:25:15 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-229-92.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 12:25:38 *stassats* chose SBCL as a more energy efficient lisp 12:25:45 ccl wakes every 10ms for some reason 12:26:42 some reason being that it has two threads and one thread is waiting, and by waiting it means sleep for 10ms 12:26:47 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:27:22 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:27:59 add^_ [~add^_^@m37-2-213-3.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:28:27 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-xvkkxlcedpsgeyof] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:28:34 upon closer inspection, it has some sort of housekeeping-loop 12:29:32 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-110-78.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:31:22 and i was using ccl before for a long-running process because it consumed less memory, now SBCL looks like a better candidate, unless i can disable this housekeeping in CCL 12:31:43 you want a dirty house? 12:32:21 i just don't litter! 12:32:51 good boy 12:33:25 but when under slime, SBCL wakes up more often than CCL 12:33:44 but i blame swank-sbcl, not SBCL directly 12:34:11 Green Slime Initiative 12:38:08 girzel [~user@50-56-99-223.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 12:40:09 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:40:54 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-bhazgarjagztldkl] has joined #lisp 12:42:07 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@203.246.179.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:15 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:49:36 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:50:00 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: trivial-irc-0.0.3] 12:50:14 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:57 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:55:06 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:56:37 stassats: http://www.braincolor.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/slime.jpg 12:58:18 This could be a horrible, horrible idea, but implementing CLIM in a Swing/Java backend (for the JVM-hosted lisps like ABCL, or even via JNI for others) is something that has been done? 12:58:43 I don't think anyone has done such a thing. 12:58:45 bobbysmith007: reading http://use-the-index-luke.com/sql/join/nested-loops-join-n1-problem, does clsql suffer from nested loops? 12:59:13 ie. (clsql:select 'table1 'table2 :where [= [table1.field] [table2.field]]) ? (not sure about clsql syntax) 13:00:28 Xach: but it is such an horrible idea? I was just wondering because I was in the fence between Clojure, Kawa and ABCL, ultimately I'm going wth ABCL because I prefer CL and although I find Clojure very interesting I have difficulties in "getting" it - plus my core application would be able to run on many Lisp implementations. This got the to wonder that if I used a CLIM-like "wrapper" to the Java/Swing stuff I'm usin 13:00:28 g even the GUI stuff could theoretically be portable 13:01:07 Probably way more complex than what I imagine though. 13:01:19 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:01:43 CLIM seems like a horrible idea to me. 13:01:44 writing gui toolkit, is not one man project 13:01:57 I am basing that on the outcome, not the concept. 13:02:12 you will write something, no one will use it, and won't have time to actually write the app you want to use the toolkit for 13:02:22 Perhaps it is a wonderful idea poorly or incompletely executed (or both) 13:02:50 there are plenty of good toolkits, evaluate them, go with one.. you should stand on the shoulders of developers before you, not reinvent windows 1.0 13:03:08 unless you're really good and don't do anything but write and test your toolkit 13:03:47 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:04:18 stassats: well there been attempts, beos, guys that tried to replace X11 (it was some c++/cobra based thing?).. but eventually nothing came out of it, and the developers there were pretty solid hackers 13:05:00 Berlin/Fresco 13:05:07 yea thats the one 13:05:19 but were they really determined and weren't interrupted by other tasks? 13:05:29 *maxm* used to hang out on one famous efnet irc channel with one of the authors 13:05:55 Tasser: have a look at: http://bellard.org/jslinux/ 13:05:55 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:06:01 have to put them foods on the tables 13:06:05 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 13:06:16 -!- cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:06:52 pjb, lol @ tables 13:07:07 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 13:08:30 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 13:08:31 -!- bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:39 maxm, Xach: I wouldn't be the one writing it, I can barely do simple stuff :D 13:09:12 I'd think long and hard before using anything other than html5, these days. 13:09:13 I was just thinking loud. I am using ABCL+JLFI with Swing. It's working quite nicely 13:09:45 i'd just think about having to support old IE 13:09:57 swing is still so heavyweight. And looks kind of like crap on Linux 13:09:58 Just don't bother. 13:10:22 Providing a link to chrome seems to work out pretty well for a lot of people. 13:10:27 Zhivago: if your business allows for it 13:10:33 if you dead set on java, I would go with swt 13:10:39 bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:00 maxm: for my purposes it's more than adequate (and it can look much better nowadays, there is cross-platform themeing support, not that I care much, I like the default look) 13:11:00 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 13:12:07 maxm: swt is nice and more native, but has more dependencies and is slightly more complex to work with without Eclipse, etc. Note that my needs are quite basic, I need a pase to draw stuff and 2 buttons 13:12:18 s/pase/pane/ 13:12:28 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:12:55 fsmunoz: a drawing pane and two buttons, and you want clim? 13:13:15 fsmunoz: canvas,