00:00:02 antifuchs: yes, I have seen that answered a lot regarding CL and GUIs, and it does make sense... but sometimes some sort of window couls be needed. 00:00:16 I'm sure it would (: 00:00:40 I have not seen a single cross-platform gui thing that didn't grate, though (: 00:00:42 -!- punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: punee] 00:00:53 antifuchs: indeed 00:00:58 err, what does grate mean ? 00:01:39 be abrasive 00:01:52 to make a harsh sound by friction.... 00:01:54 antifuchs: but my aims are quite modest, I don't care if the GUI stands out like a sore thumb, as long as it works. The closes I saw was LTK, using Tk. 00:01:56 hrmmmm 00:02:12 yeah, LTK seems ok. 00:02:17 I have never used it 00:03:16 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Quit: kcj] 00:08:31 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 00:09:17 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129250040.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 00:14:04 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:14:17 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 00:19:55 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@h082218028049.host.wavenet.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:20:14 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:21:01 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:21:39 lebro [~monx@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:26 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:27:58 -!- Whitesquall [~notwhites@212.106.32.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:29:21 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:30:45 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 00:30:58 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:42 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 00:32:05 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2DF74.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:33:33 TOHA [ciel@105.133.49.187] has joined #lisp 00:33:44 -!- TOHA [ciel@105.133.49.187] has left #lisp 00:33:47 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 00:35:36 pnq [~nick@AC8169D9.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:35:43 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 00:37:47 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.39.62] has joined #lisp 00:41:08 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:47:26 fsmunoz: ltk is my GUI of choice 00:47:34 I don't know if it works out-of-the-box on windows 00:47:44 but it should be fairly trivial to get working 00:48:25 The list widget is not very usable as-is, I had to write a bit of tcl code to make it sane; I should publish that at some point 00:49:00 -!- kanru [~kanru@36-226-36-134.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:49:58 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 00:51:55 ugh, I wrote that code a long time ago; I just looked it now and see it uses gentemp; that's not a good sign 00:53:39 getoffmalawn [~getoffmal@14-202-66-99.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:58:58 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-43-154.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:59:40 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has joined #lisp 01:00:15 jasom: ty 01:00:31 -!- timack [~timack@hlfx64-2a-217.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:00:38 jasom: I think I likely go with that, I just need a raw canvas and a couple of buttons 01:07:49 Snardbafulators [~trainengi@ip68-8-31-14.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:52 -Snardbafulators:#lisp- Tired of niggers? Sick of their monkeyshines? We are too! Join Chimpout Forum! http://www.chimpout.com/forum At Chimpout we are NOT white supremacists! I myself am a Mexican! Basically, if you are not a NIGGER and you hate NIGGERS, we welcome you with open arms! Join Chimpout Forum today! http://www.chimpout.com/forum 01:08:17 lol 01:08:19 wtf 01:09:37 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 01:09:39 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*trainengi@*.sd.sd.cox.net 01:09:43 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 01:10:37 Oh, good, I was just about to report it in #freenode because the #lisp founder is listed as freenode-staff. 01:11:11 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 01:11:11 If anyone's new to IRC and the Internet: the appropriate response is always to ignore the troll until it gets banned. 01:13:00 bburhans [bburhans@freenode/staff/bburhans] has joined #lisp 01:14:43 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14:59 -!- getoffmalawn [~getoffmal@14-202-66-99.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:15:59 tarside [~tarside@113.118.186.207] has joined #lisp 01:20:17 -!- Snardbafulators [~trainengi@ip68-8-31-14.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [K-Lined] 01:22:16 _schulte_ 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[~prefect@f052231198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:43:15 -!- Dennis_ is now known as Croms 03:45:54 girzel [~user@114.250.131.39] has joined #lisp 03:48:25 wolgo [~jarrod@li155-127.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:54:40 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:56:03 I'm trying to get a hunchentoot server to start on boot. I'm using quicklisp, and a project directory as described here: http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html?thread=674335 03:56:36 I can get it to work manually, by running sbcl, then entering (ql:quickload "kitchen"), and then (kitchen::start-dev-server) 03:56:43 but from the command line, a command like this: 03:56:57 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:57:05 sbcl --userinit ~/.sbclrc --eval '(progn (ql:quickload \"kitchen\") (kitchen::start-dev-server))' 03:57:17 tells me "Package KITCHEN does not exist" 03:57:35 can anyone tell me why those two things are not equivalent? 03:57:36 that's because it doesn't yet, at read time. 03:58:00 the --eval version reads the whole thing at once, instead of sequentially like you do interactively. So it tries to read "kitchen::start-dev-server" immediately and finds no package. 03:58:09 aha! 03:58:22 would two --eval statements change that? 03:58:28 or should I just be doing this differently? 03:59:19 I don't know if it would, but it's worth trying. If not you can do something ugly like (funcall (intern "START-DEV-SERVER" (find-package "KITCHEN"))) 04:00:18 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:05 nope, two --evals doesn't work. I should probably just write some little stub of an init file 04:01:53 or maybe slightly less ugly --eval '(progn #.(ql:quickload ..) .. )' 04:02:29 probably better to use an init file. 04:04:53 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-146-81.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:08:55 yup, that worked just fine, takes effing forever to load though 04:09:11 might use buildapp to make a binary or something 04:13:42 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:17:34 centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-144-32.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:17 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-144-32.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:20:36 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 04:25:20 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Quit: le mieux que je peux] 04:25:40 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:40 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:25:40 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 04:26:54 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:28:06 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:28:32 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:38:56 hitecnologys [~No_Name@94.137.21.136] has joined #lisp 04:39:19 Hi everybody! 04:40:03 Did I miss something interesting? 04:45:26 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8169D9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:46:53 lebro [~monx@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:45 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:51:18 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:04:35 hitecnologys: sure, everyone is running lispos now 05:05:03 phadthai: Oh, link please? 05:05:25 heh, just kidding, of course :) 05:07:33 phadthai: Lol, ok. =) 05:10:25 ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 05:12:52 -!- gimbal [~gimbal@mo-76-0-0-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:13:12 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:16:35 gimbal [~gimbal@mo-76-0-0-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:09 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:19:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.39.62] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 05:20:10 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:22:29 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:46 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@94.137.21.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:27:25 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:27:46 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:33:42 -!- meiji11 [~user@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:35:08 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:40:15 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.23.207] has joined #lisp 05:40:25 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 05:41:14 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.39.62] has joined #lisp 05:45:55 springz [~springz@119.36.38.198] has joined #lisp 05:49:30 pulse40 [~pulse40@c-98-198-237-163.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:10 -!- springz [~springz@119.36.38.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:05:24 -!- _sigjuice [3fe94cfe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.233.76.254] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:08:55 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has joined #lisp 06:12:14 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:14:04 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 06:14:05 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 06:14:05 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:14:46 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has joined #lisp 06:22:57 piko [~piko@ip4-83-240-108-205.cust.nbox.cz] has joined #lisp 06:31:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-67.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:38:14 -!- fold [~fold@71.8.117.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:39:03 yakov_ [~yakov@128-68-162-94.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:42:33 -!- yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-219.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:48:08 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:50:43 -!- piko [~piko@ip4-83-240-108-205.cust.nbox.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:51:19 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 06:51:24 Squee-D [~Squee-D@219-89-6-59.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:52:34 piko [~piko@ip4-83-240-108-205.cust.nbox.cz] has joined #lisp 06:53:03 curious about a slight difference in the book im reading and my clisp REPL. It upper-cases every symbol when they're shown as a return, eg '(foo 1 2) returns with (FOO 1 2). Anyone know why? Isn't it more likely that the symbol was entered in lowercase? 06:53:51 Squee-D: see http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/23_ab.htm 06:57:01 -!- Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:57:10 thanks bike :D 06:57:25 Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 06:58:27 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:58:43 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 07:01:20 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:30 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 07:01:54 'land of lisp' is a great language primer. 07:03:04 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 07:09:23 -!- Archenoth [~user@96.51.223.95] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:10:09 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:11:52 Archenoth [~Archenoth@96.51.223.95] has joined #lisp 07:23:50 -!- pulse40 [~pulse40@c-98-198-237-163.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pulse40] 07:29:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:29:36 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-031-004.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:42 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has joined #lisp 07:32:13 moah [~moah@dslb-188-109-174-053.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:58 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-242-169.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep.] 07:46:26 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:48:24 Squee-D: also note that the case symbols are printed in is customizable. http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/22_accba.htm 07:49:41 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-28-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:50:03 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-28-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:58:04 -!- Squee-D [~Squee-D@219-89-6-59.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 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[~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 09:40:02 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 09:47:09 nha [~prefect@g230118162.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:47:29 fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has joined #lisp 09:51:01 Guthur [~user@host86-148-164-73.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:53:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:57:46 -!- tarside_ [~tarside@113.118.186.207] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]] 10:05:11 -!- stlifey_ [~stlifey@116.19.140.63] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 10:05:41 stlifey [~stlifey@116.19.140.63] has joined #lisp 10:09:14 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 10:10:11 does anyone know why a xtest asm binary won't run under mrxvt or some other shell in stumpwm, instead segfaulting, when it is happily running on kde ? 10:10:13 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc1-sgyl27-2-0-cust785.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:10:27 it's linked against -lX11 just 10:10:44 and i tried to call it via C-t ! too.... 10:10:46 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 10:10:50 nuffin.... 10:16:27 Sorella [~quildreen@201-58-208-95.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 10:16:28 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@201-58-208-95.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 10:16:28 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 10:18:15 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:19:08 Won't run is not very descriptiove. 10:19:51 well it just segfaults.... 10:20:07 tho invoked from mrxvt ...and other shells.... 10:20:48 So, it does run. Perhaps you should look at where it segfaults? 10:21:11 hmmm 10:21:25 I presume there is valuable and #lisp-relevant information behind all those ellipses? 10:21:40 -!- fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:22:00 ez271 [506d3e82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.109.62.130] has joined #lisp 10:23:10 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:23:35 -!- gko [~user@114.34.168.13] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:23:36 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:25:27 i straced it, it opens a socket, mmaps etc all ok, then there are some read,write,poll events and then i see the segfault.... 10:26:00 saying resource temporarily unavail or so, but that's the same in kde when i terminate it....so resource temporarily unavail is not the cause..... 10:26:15 hmmmm 10:26:52 i think it's because the calls are direct.... 10:26:58 not thru lisp.... 10:28:03 so it segfaults actually when it comes to X calls i would say..... 10:29:42 Why not use a debugger on the core file rather than guessing? 10:30:08 wbooze: does it run well on other WMs? The code is probably asking for a resource that stumpwm doesn't provide, and not checking for that. 10:30:20 i mean, other wms than kde. 10:31:40 hitecnologys [~No_Name@94.137.21.136] has joined #lisp 10:32:35 Ottre [ottre@wikipedia/Ottre] has joined #lisp 10:33:04 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36:08 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:37:46 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 10:37:46 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Client Quit] 10:40:40 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 10:46:54 vantage|home [~vantage@227.202-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 10:48:25 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 10:52:12 jewel [~jewel@196-210-141-210.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:53:33 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:55:00 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-167.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:55:36 [SLB] [~slabua@host244-164-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:55:37 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host244-164-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 10:55:37 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 10:56:52 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:58:32 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-146-81.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 11:00:18 kids these days, no gdb-fu 11:01:09 gdb-fu comes with C. 11:01:15 Even for C++, gdb is quite useless. 11:01:45 pjb: you tried recent one, with python printers? It prints C++ strings, hashes and vectors nicely 11:02:12 Not recently. What does it do for lisp? 11:04:38 pjb: nothing for lisp, but since you said c++ I commented on gdb usability with c++.. For lisp SBCL with ud2 breakpoints seems quite good, I can now attach/detach to SBCL with gdb from slime backtrace, without ill effects 11:04:58 That's good. 11:07:15 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053015224.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 11:13:20 -!- ez271 [506d3e82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.109.62.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:17:36 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 11:24:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:02 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-167.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:26:51 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-135-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 11:29:30 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:31:00 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:20 pnq [~nick@AC813881.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:31:31 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-135-167.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:32:34 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-167.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:35:05 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:35:11 Have anyone ever used Limp or Slimv for Vim to program on lisp? 11:35:35 nope 11:35:48 i think i just tried once.... 11:35:55 and got it also up or so.... 11:36:29 couldn't find the cause of the problem with the asm snippet.... 11:36:33 hmmmmmm 11:36:56 I've recently tried to use slimv but seems that it can't run swank on my system. I tried different commands but without any result. 11:37:17 in gdm it didn't segfault, i stepped thru and it just could not find some functions bounds or so.... 11:37:50 seems to be just after _dl_init_user or so 11:38:04 homie: could you write code here? 11:38:41 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@89.130.60.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:39:51 homie: But why do you use GDB to debug lisp? What's wrong with lisp's native debugger? 11:40:13 _dl_init_user sounds like FFI. 11:40:51 is there an active log for the channel? trying to make a note about a point that was raised yesterday - iirc, that ABCL makes use of a design from Franz in how it "does the Java thing" 11:41:20 i used this one http://paste.lisp.org/display/130544 11:41:39 gimbal: there are two logs. google for irc log lisp 11:41:48 there's a gdb setup for sbcl on sbcl internals site or so.... 11:42:01 pjb, thx 11:42:06 if you want lisp symbols in gdb or so don'ts knows..... 11:42:20 no idea about others..... 11:42:48 Can a program dynamically create elf symbols for gdb use? 11:43:01 I guess not, you'd have to ask gdb to reload a symtable. 11:43:15 compiled it with gcc -m32 xtest.c -L/usr/lib/X11 -lX11 -o xtest or so.... 11:43:20 static languages are so dumb 11:43:21 err xtest.s 11:43:59 homie: Is this code for x86? 11:44:10 well, yes, it works in kde 11:45:07 just segfaults under stumpwm... and i think that could be ffi too like he said..... 11:45:29 direct calls not supported i think, all has to go thru ffi.... 11:49:44 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:50:53 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:51:11 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-154-96-56.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:30 homie: I'm not very good in understanding assembler so what does this code needs to do except to open a window? 11:51:31 abeaumont [~Alfredo@89.130.60.29] has joined #lisp 11:51:42 bitonic [~user@host86-154-96-56.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:53:52 it just opens a window, does no refresh/redraw, and you can close it again... so the pixel area in it is the one before the draw.....it does not draw anything itself there and it does not refresh the area so at the time the window gets drawn it captures basically the pixels already existing there.... 11:54:33 it maybe some portion of you desktop.....depends on where the window appears.... 11:55:23 the code is from http://www.satyria.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1:assembler-und-x-programmierung&catid=3:kurse-zu-assembler&Itemid=3 11:56:20 maybe i should have compile it with -lffi too or so... don't know 11:56:35 Huh, let's try to assemble and run it on my osx. 11:56:51 but that would only be the one direction.....i'm not sure stumpwm/lisp side would wrap it..... 11:58:38 nope, it does not 11:58:52 Lol, lot's of errors! 11:58:56 compiling with linked ffi does nothing... 12:00:18 Sorry, I can't help you, homie. I haven't got any ideas about the problem. =( 12:00:22 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 12:01:28 does stumpwm's run-program provide ffi automatically ? 12:02:14 even if then, only for the lisp->.... side not for the ...-> lisp side i'd think..... 12:02:21 meh 12:02:37 Huh, if the current topic is assembler and lisp, I have a little problem too. Have anyone head about DCPU-16? 12:02:50 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 12:03:17 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-160.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 12:03:55 https://github.com/bricef/dcpu16-lisp 12:05:17 http://moxielogic.org/blog/?tag=dcpu-16 12:05:56 and the spec http://0x10c.com/doc/dcpu-16.txt 12:06:02 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc1-sgyl27-2-0-cust785.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:06:23 gaming cpu.... 12:06:30 maybe onboard or so.... 12:06:46 or xbox like.... 12:07:10 it's an emulated computer system part of Notch's new game 12:07:21 the minecraft guy 12:07:44 it's part of the control system for the players ship 12:07:56 at least that's what I gathered 12:08:35 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@128-68-162-94.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:08:52 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:09:28 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:10:48 well anyway, did you read the spec, it's faq like....it seems..... 12:11:08 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-154-96-56.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:24 maybe you'll find your answer there.... 12:11:42 bitonic [~user@host86-154-96-56.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:12:17 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-154-96-56.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:42 Sorry. I was afk. Yep, it's CPU. I heard it's mainstream for now and tried to write my own assembler for it. The problem is that I can't understand how to translate command to binary. I tried to translate it in my mind, but got completely different results from another assembler. 12:13:02 waahah 12:14:14 And another question: is there's a function to convert hex to binary without converting it to string and then parsing numbers? 12:14:19 bitonic [~user@host86-154-96-56.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:14:25 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:14:26 od ? 12:14:53 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-004-041.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:15:13 "/usr/bin/od" 12:15:17 man od 12:15:17 http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man1/od.1.html 12:15:24 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-034-225.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:15:38 ah 12:15:47 *wbooze* pats specbot 12:16:02 eheh 12:16:16 I meant in lisp but that's good too. 12:17:23 you man you don't want to use format and format specs ? 12:17:33 or whaddayamean ? 12:18:00 format converts numbers to string. 12:18:10 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:18:35 and there's coerce for types, and read-integer and stuff or so.... 12:18:43 parse-integer....bleh 12:20:16 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:21:03 In CLHS I didn't find anything about base conversation. (parse-integer (format "~D" #xFFFF) :radix 2) looks ugly. 12:26:36 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:28:23 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-004-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:36 http://batsov.com/articles/2011/04/30/parsing-numbers-from-string-in-lisp/ 12:29:12 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:31:01 I know about parsing numbers, I want to convert numbers directly, for example #x2 to #b10. 12:32:25 I mean is there's any «native» function or I need to write it by myself? 12:32:31 you want to convert #x2 (which is 2) to #b10 (which is also 2) ? 12:32:42 Yep. 12:33:34 It's not _really_ need but I just interested is there's any ways to do it. 12:34:34 They are both integers. Where do you read this #x2 from? 12:35:21 #x2 is random value. 12:35:36 i'm not sure you could do it with a closure like thing...let *read-base* 16 blah.....let *read-base* 2...etc.... 12:36:01 hitecnologys: there's only binary. hex/decimal/octal etc. are *text* representations 12:37:07 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 12:37:20 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 12:37:45 Hmm. So better to convert them to strings and then do other things? 12:37:49 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 12:39:15 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.39.62] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 12:39:18 hitecnologys: *what* you're trying to do? 12:39:42 do you want to print integer in a certain base? 12:40:39 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 12:40:47 i think he just wants that..... 12:40:49 kennyd: (let ((*print-base* whatever)) (print integer)) 12:41:24 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 12:43:10 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc1-sgyl27-2-0-cust785.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:43:19 (defun hex-to-bin (num) (let..... etc... 12:43:32 you can have your own that way.... 12:43:47 kennyd: actually, I want to join some binary numbers together. But joining string is toooo easy. ;) 12:44:23 hitecnologys, could use bit shifting, perhaps? 12:45:20 gimbal: Yep, I want to take some numbers, then shift them and sum together. 12:45:34 hitecnologys: ASH and LOGIOR can do that pretty well. 12:45:49 ^+ 12:45:59 for example, (logior (ash byte1 8) byte2) 12:46:19 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:47:05 Xach: Actually, LOGXOR instead of LOGOR as 1 + 1 = 10, but in that case LOGIOR is OK. 12:47:19 LOGIOR* 12:48:26 Lol, I've just thought about writing assembler or assembly language. =) 12:51:50 If Lisp derives from the Lambda Calculus, conceptually, then what does C derive from? 12:52:22 gimbal: Lisp doesn't derive from lambda calculus 12:52:38 http://lispsamik.blogspot.com/2008/02/lambda-calculus-and-common-lisp.html 12:52:51 C derives from B, B from BCPL, BCPL from iirc CPL, and CPL is I think related to algol 12:53:26 There weren't lambda expressions in _lisp_, they was added in _common lisp_. Sure? 12:53:30 p_l|backup, ahh, the history of C! I see - thx! 12:53:39 hitecnologys, understood ;) 12:53:41 all the most popular languages nowadays derive from algol 12:53:43 it sucks 12:53:44 ;-) 12:53:50 gimbal: the link between lisp and lambda calculus is something that happened later, and isn't strongly tied to lisp itself, although I think scheme is more strongly oriented towards it 12:54:09 *gimbal* nods 12:54:35 Lisp maybe comes from Fortran. 12:54:39 hitecnologys: nope 12:55:25 Fortran comes from one guy's laziness, Lisp from a theoretical idea that got implemented by a student 12:55:25 -!- lemonodor_ [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55:51 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:49 algol ... imperative programming? Could it be accurate to say that C's style of functional programming may be an extension of an earlier imperative programming model? 12:57:59 ...and if so, that Java is the bastard child of OOP anf imperative programming then? Lol ;) 12:58:36 gimbal: C is as functional as it's object-oriented. 12:58:46 gimbal: Java is "third system" to C++ "second system" which had grown into it's own "second system" form 12:59:01 *gimbal* nods 12:59:17 Natch [~Natch@c-1dcce155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:59:34 gimbal: C++ is but not C. It has only functions from functional programming. 12:59:59 C++ is functional* 13:00:12 But C++ isn't functional enough. 13:02:32 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 13:02:44 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Client Quit] 13:02:56 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:03:09 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 13:04:32 Does Smalltalk have any conceptual origins in earlier programming languages, I wonder? 13:06:11 Like in the sense of: "John Shoch, a member of the LRG at PARC, acknowledged in his 1979 paper Smalltalk's debt to Plato's theory of forms in which an ideal archetype becomes the template from which other objects are derived." - Smalltalk page at wikipedia 13:06:53 Smalltalk introduced pure OOP model of programming. And I'm not sure about GC. 13:06:58 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-10-14.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:07:25 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:59 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:08:26 Anyway, now Apple uses C++ and Smalltalk mix  Objective-C. 13:08:35 rfgpfeiffer [~bob@blubberquark.de] has joined #lisp 13:08:50 gimbal: Smalltalk was inspired by Lisp 13:09:09 for example 13:09:16 consider its array notation 13:09:20 #(a b c) 13:09:23 and symbol notation 13:09:26 #abc 13:09:41 I c 13:10:32 was the MOP in Common Lisp influended by Smalltalk? 13:10:57 what's MOP? 13:11:02 metaobject protocol 13:11:06 i don't know 13:11:15 i suppose CLOS was 13:11:29 I realize MOP isn't ANSI CL standard, MOP, but it's common I guess... 13:11:53 CLOS uses a generic function approach rather than a message-passing approach. 13:12:02 i don't know what MOP is, but i'm a newbie in lisp 13:12:35 Natch_j [~Natch@178.73.212.235] has joined #lisp 13:12:37 -!- gimbal is now known as mob_bucket 13:12:38 Is there's MOP on pure Common Lisp? 13:12:42 in* 13:13:10 -!- mob_bucket is now known as mop_bucket 13:13:13 hitecnologys: whats pure common lisp? do you mean the ansi standard? 13:13:21 Yep. 13:14:30 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 13:14:54 (DEFUN ANY-TO-BIN (NUM) 13:15:01 ups 13:15:06 Lol. 13:15:14 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-1dcce155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:15:32 Writing base converter? 13:16:05 hitecnologys: its outside the standard, but i think almost any implementation has it. 13:16:24 asd [~asd@95-42-32-158.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 13:16:48 -!- asd is now known as Guest30365 13:17:20 pavelpenev: Oh, I'm slowpoke. I thought that there's no MOP in lisp. 13:18:00 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129250040.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:18:25 -!- joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:18:30 -!- Guest30365 is now known as Fever_Wits 13:18:40 http://paste.lisp.org/display/130546 13:19:06 centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-144-32.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:13 -!- Natch_j [~Natch@178.73.212.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:19:22 Lol, why cases are different? 13:20:16 i paseted some and wrote another in the middle... 13:20:30 OK. 13:22:39 look i showed you even my nibbles... 13:22:40 lol 13:23:37 you could make it n-ary tho! 13:23:50 with a loop or so... 13:23:51 joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has joined #lisp 13:25:18 -!- nha [~prefect@g230118162.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:26:29 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 13:27:40 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:28:07 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc1-sgyl27-2-0-cust785.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:29:09 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 13:29:37 wbooze: X is low level: it doesn't refresh or redraw the window for you. You have to deal with events and redraw the window yourself! 13:31:27 hitecnologys: Portable Common Loops is an old, portable CLOS implementation. 13:33:16 how portable is it nowadays? 13:33:57 [SLB] [~slabua@host244-164-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:33:58 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host244-164-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 13:33:58 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 13:34:29 pjb: ? 13:34:43 pjb: i know! 13:37:55 wbooze: You can also just use (write number :base 2) 13:37:56 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@196-210-195-199.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:38:07 ah ok 13:38:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-199.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:46:05 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:30 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 13:48:36 tony` [~tony@5ac37acc.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 13:53:49 spykins [~Spykins@197.253.4.163] has joined #lisp 13:55:02 -!- spykins [~Spykins@197.253.4.163] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:55:21 spykins [~Spykins@197.253.4.163] has joined #lisp 13:59:48 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:04:11 -!- spykins [~Spykins@197.253.4.163] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:37 spykins [~Spykins@197.253.4.163] has joined #lisp 14:05:09 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 14:07:27 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:16:23 nha [~prefect@g225147087.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:19:16 -!- pnq [~nick@AC813881.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:20:07 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-155-193-186.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:09 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:21:06 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:21:32 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 14:22:04 zachk1 [~moses@unaffiliated/zachk] has joined #lisp 14:22:21 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 14:22:40 -!- spykins [~Spykins@197.253.4.163] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:03 spykins [~Spykins@197.253.4.163] has joined #lisp 14:25:01 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-144-35.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:25:10 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-89-19.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:26:43 what's the main difference of giving a list of symbols to a function like (blah '(a b c)).... and giving it multiple args at once like so (blah 'a 'b 'c).... 14:26:49 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:27:07 does one has to use multiple-value-bind in the latter case ? 14:27:46 mop_bucket: I know little about it other than people talk about it a lot, but there's something called Simula that I believe is often cited as Smalltalk's OO ancestor. 14:27:59 homie: to me they are semantically different 14:28:22 -!- zachk1 is now known as zachk 14:28:25 one has one argument that accepts a list the other has three that accepts symbols 14:28:35 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 14:28:50 if you used a &rest argument then it would converge somewhat 14:29:38 i used a &rest args and used a loop inside a defun to loop over the args.... 14:29:53 I've felt very skeptical for years of this business of passing in parameters in anonymous numbered places. The rationale seems to be brevity, as every other consideration weighs towards a richer less brittle interface. 14:30:13 but the case (listp num) just works not the 'a 'b 'c all single args thing.... 14:30:51 wbooze: you are obsessed with ellipses if you don't mind me saying 14:31:37 i don't mind you saying :) 14:31:38 I used to be really into ellipses for a few years when I was a teenager, no joke. More ellipses than periods! It made me feel... dreamy... somehow... 14:32:40 hmmmmm 14:32:53 wbooze: mapping over the list might work just as well as loop 14:32:53 Isn't brevity of typing enough? Have a default order of arguments that if you type them in without keywords in that order, emacs automatically adds the keywords. Then people can change the order they type them in for themselves. 14:32:56 homie: clhs call-arguments-limit 14:33:04 -!- mop_bucket is now known as gimbal 14:33:18 does anyone know how to install lispdev in Eclipse? I've cloned it github, don't know what the next step is, to install it 14:33:26 Sorry, is this the right channel for questioning the entire history of Lisp?! ;) That's my learning style, I'm afraid, skepticism. 14:33:35 homie: also, giving multiple arguments is O(n) stack space, while giving a single argument is O(1) stack space. 14:34:18 Guthur: &rest would have to cons a new list, unless you call it with (apply 'blah args). 14:34:19 pjb: the inverse for access? 14:35:01 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:35:49 I cheat I have an emacs command to replace three dots with real elipsises They're more unconspicuous. 14:36:22 the compiler wouldn't just figure out where those list members are going, in this day & age, if you just put them in fixed structures and take them back out? i'd think it'd all vanish. i haven't looked at any compiled versions of my code, yet, though. 14:36:23 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:29 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-90-42.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:37:25 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:16 Out of interest does anyone find themselves using pattern matching much to solve problems? outside of regex. 14:38:45 For the pattern matching I thinking along the lines of what is in PAIP 14:39:24 Spykins__ [~Spykins@197.253.4.163] has joined #lisp 14:39:56 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-89-19.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:40:01 The problem is that we're not writing code that's high level enough. 14:40:11 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-144-32.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:41:28 pjb: was that comment directed at mungojelly? 14:41:51 -!- spykins [~Spykins@197.253.4.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:42:15 hi all. may be someone made antialiased fonts rendering for stumpwm? 14:42:30 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 14:42:58 Guthur: no, at pattern matching. 14:43:07 pjb: ok, just checking 14:43:16 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:43:38 -!- Fever_Wits [~asd@95-42-32-158.btc-net.bg] has left #lisp 14:43:47 after playing with Prolog for a bit recently I've been coming to the conclusion that it might be very useful 14:43:54 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-xyakvoxuyifefvxx] has joined #lisp 14:43:55 Indeed. 14:44:13 Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.230] has joined #lisp 14:44:41 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.39.62] has joined #lisp 14:45:09 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:46:08 spykins [~Spykins@197.253.4.162] has joined #lisp 14:46:14 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:46:38 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:49:24 -!- Spykins__ [~Spykins@197.253.4.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:50:39 Spykins_ [~Spykins@197.253.4.163] has joined #lisp 14:50:47 centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-144-32.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:01 -!- spykins [~Spykins@197.253.4.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:53:57 asvil: what do you want ? 14:54:25 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 14:54:41 asvil: try out -xft options to some of the shells if you want anti-alias fonts .... 14:55:05 asvil: it works for examle with mrxvt here within stumpwm 14:56:19 wbooze: modeline font smoothing 14:58:05 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-012.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:55 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:02:41 Guthur: donno if it counts the same, I used earley parser, with extensions to allow inline pieces of code instead of terminals, to narrow the matching 15:03:52 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 15:04:06 ie (defrule ?compound-something ::= TOKEN ?sub-element SHMOKEN (lambda (so-far next-token) .. custom matcher ..) END-TOKEN) 15:04:36 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:05:41 maxm: I'll check it out. I want to investigate a number of solutions 15:05:51 so you can kind of implement "smart terminals" that remember something about the state, and store info needed for look-forward assertion, and later have another "smart terminal" that checks if assertion is true 15:07:08 Guthur: whats your subject matter? for above mine was decompiler, so I basically was matching bytecode, something like ?expr cond-jump ?stmts jump etc 15:07:53 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:08:12 -!- Spykins_ [~Spykins@197.253.4.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:08:21 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has joined #lisp 15:08:44 maxm: I'm investigating pattern matching generally 15:09:01 though I am also looking at testing things within the context of a simple MUD 15:09:11 spykins [~Spykins@197.253.4.162] has joined #lisp 15:09:35 ah..investigative scratching for potential itching :-) 15:09:44 maxm: very much so 15:10:43 muds are text games, like "go there etc?" actually earley parser probably will be a good solution for text parsing 15:10:45 Spykins_ [~Spykins@197.253.4.163] has joined #lisp 15:12:55 Natch_b [~Natch@178.73.212.230] has joined #lisp 15:13:05 -!- Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:13:05 -!- Natch_b is now known as Natch 15:13:22 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:13:40 -!- spykins [~Spykins@197.253.4.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:14:04 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.160.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:14:11 maxm: yeah I was thinking that 15:16:08 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@222-55-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:27 -!- Spykins_ [~Spykins@197.253.4.163] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:18:31 -!- nowhereman is now known as nowhere_man 15:19:45 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 15:22:19 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 15:22:51 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:23:33 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 15:23:42 pnq [~nick@ACA22706.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:24:20 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:25:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.83.162] has joined #lisp 15:25:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.83.162] has quit [Changing host] 15:25:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:27:12 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:16 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-135-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:44 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 15:27:45 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 15:27:45 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 15:28:17 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:53 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-167.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:28:54 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:29:13 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:23 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@94.137.21.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:30:05 hitecnologys [~No_Name@178.74.92.161] has joined #lisp 15:30:09 -!- Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:31:41 ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:51 snearch [~snearch@f053015224.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:36:01 Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has joined #lisp 15:36:08 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 15:39:13 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.23.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:39:26 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:39 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:41:50 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@222-55-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 15:42:01 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:43:45 -!- ozialien [~ernest@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:46:24 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:45 hitecnologys1 [~No_Name@46.233.208.85] has joined #lisp 15:46:49 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:46:57 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@178.74.92.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:47:35 *gimbal* wonders what's Franz's position with regards to the Eclipse IDE and the Lispdev plugin 15:48:41 Kinda making a whiteboard over at my google+ page, brainstorming features that I think would be helpful in the Lispdev plugin. By some weird association, it calls to mind the thought, "Enterprise Common Lisp" lol 15:49:02 erm, Lispdev plugins. It is plural, after all ;) 15:49:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-67.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:49:22 -!- Archenoth [~Archenoth@96.51.223.95] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:49:45 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-167.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:50:12 When it gets a bit close to SLIME, we can start talking... Franz will be ambivalent, I think 15:50:21 I c 15:50:53 lisp support in eclipse is not in any way a competition to them 15:51:42 It looks like Lispdev uses something based on Swank - offhand, there's an org.lispdev.swank plugin from Lispdev's github repo 15:51:53 imo I wasn't thinking competition, just market development 15:52:28 gimbal: you might get free access to ACL for purposes of compatibility testing, I guess 15:52:38 a bit of autocompletion, and a REPL console for the Eclipse console view, and it would be closer, imo 15:52:45 their VP of sales is pretty cool guy on that, just make sure you get him on the phone ;) 15:52:53 lol tx 15:53:12 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-135-167.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:53:23 that reminds me that my free license is expiring... 15:53:37 *gimbal* hasn't looked at Lispdev's debugger support as yet - something vague comes to mind from a search result yesterday tho 15:54:09 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-xyakvoxuyifefvxx] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 15:54:45 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:55:47 so there's Lispdev at Google Code and Lispdev at Atlassian Bitbucket - looks like the Bitbucket branch is current 15:55:50 __dict__ [~jake@c-24-22-211-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:13 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:56:34 ozialien [~ernest@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:04 -!- hitecnologys1 [~No_Name@46.233.208.85] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:57:25 futher debugger support is in Lispdev's todo.txt - nice :) /end of rambling 15:57:44 -!- zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #lisp 15:58:37 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA22706.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:01 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.208.92] has joined #lisp 16:00:19 ivan-kanis [~user@180.101.204.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:09 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:45 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 16:05:45 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:07:46 fe[nl]ix: decided to try fiveam on a simple project, no docs? With some tinkering I was able to run qbook generator from doc/ directory, may I I suggest making a simple README.md file out of ;;;; lines? Some documentation better then none 16:07:58 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 16:09:06 fe[nl]ix: also if you took over the project officially, change the cliki 16:09:25 fe[nl]ix: and quicklisp still has darcs version 16:14:40 cfdm [~user@222.235.51.254] has joined #lisp 16:15:04 http://common-lisp.net/project/fiveam/docs/index.html 16:15:52 fe[nl]ix: ah I assumed that was old one, since the root project page was still pointing to darcs repo 16:16:09 *maxm* actually really likes qbook idea 16:16:16 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:16:19 what root page ? 16:16:29 the project page is http://common-lisp.net/project/fiveam/ 16:17:20 fe[nl]ix: doh, http://common-lisp.net/project/fiveam/ indeed points to teh right place, let me check browser history. Somehow when googling fiveam I laded on common.lisp.net page that was old 16:17:34 and latest quicklisp have release 1.0 16:17:56 http://blog.quicklisp.org/2012/07/july-2012-update-now-available.html 16:18:35 ah googling "common lisp fiveam" gives the common-lisp.net/project/bese/FiveAM.html as top result, and yours as second 16:19:23 fe[nl]ix: ok cool.. I'm gonna convert my market interface library, will put issues on github if there are any probs 16:20:02 I'll fix that 16:24:33 fe[nl]ix: probably due to http://www.cliki.net/FiveAM, update that too, and it has some fixes there in comments 16:24:37 donno if still relevant 16:25:08 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:18 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 16:32:28 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.208.92] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:34:25 fe[nl]ix: how about making an alias (def-test) or (define-test) or such, for (test ...) since slime cl-indent automatically does correct indentation for (def*) 16:36:35 ok 16:36:49 definitively-assert 16:39:35 paul0 [~paul0@177.16.148.59] has joined #lisp 16:43:06 Forty-3 [~kvirc@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:13 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053015224.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:46:34 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:01 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:47:39 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.222.213] has joined #lisp 16:50:02 I don't get the differnce between defvar and defparameter 16:50:10 also imho (in-suite* blah), but then if you changed it to (in-suite blah :in outer-suite) it does not change it... IMHO (in-suite*) needs to reparent the suite, if it was found, because changing test suites hierarchy is kind of often used operation when interactively developing tests 16:50:14 I'm using this book: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/variables.html#dynamic-aka-special-variables 16:51:19 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:51:28 defvar is for one time init, defparameter for multiple times init.... 16:51:33 ... 16:51:40 -!- paul0 [~paul0@177.16.148.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:52:23 so defparameter is more like (defparameter lalalala 42) (dostuff) (defparameter lalalala 24) 16:52:51 as opposed to (defvar lalalala 42) ;This is the same forever and ever and will never be changed 16:53:06 no, that would be defconstant i think.... 16:53:22 oh 16:53:32 pnq [~nick@AC81633A.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:53:46 the book theer says "DEFPARAMETER always assigns the initial value to the named variable while DEFVAR does so only if the variable is undefined." 16:53:48 *ere 16:53:49 Forty-3: No, defparameter will not be changed. 16:53:51 fe[nl]ix: you don't mind me continuing here? is there a quick way to figure out current suite? seems have to eval fiveam::*suite* for that.. Maybe (run!) should print suite name its running 16:54:00 they only differ in oop respect in that, it est for object initializations etc... from classes..... 16:54:08 or maybe i got it wrong.... 16:54:10 Aw, sorry. 16:54:10 but I'm not doing oopp 16:54:12 *oop 16:54:15 Defparameter will. 16:54:27 *Forty-3* is very confused now 16:54:35 you can defvar multiple times too, but it will warn .... 16:54:59 does anyone here actually know what they are talking about, and can give me a straing answer? 16:55:06 *straight 16:55:06 Forty-3: Defparameter will change the value of variable in redefinition, bit defvar won't. 16:55:11 ok 16:55:15 thank you 16:55:18 but* 16:55:24 Forty-3: You're welcome. 16:55:37 tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.70.73] has joined #lisp 16:56:04 could I do (defvar lalala 42) (defparameter lalala 24) ? 16:56:07 maxm: send you suggestions to the mailing list 16:56:24 Forty-3: I think yes. 16:56:26 ok 16:56:41 but it reversed would not work 16:56:50 Forty-3: i think so, but you should check the hyperspec to be certain 16:56:53 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 16:57:02 ok 16:58:14 paul0 [~paul0@177.41.242.32] has joined #lisp 16:58:17 -!- Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:58:27 maxm: try now that first search result link 16:58:28 Forty-3: This is a little example of it's behavior: http://paste.lisp.org/+2SQD 16:58:56 Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.230] has joined #lisp 16:58:58 fe[nl]ix: redirect works fine now 16:59:10 ok 17:01:44 lnostdal [~lnostdal@242-48-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 17:05:09 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:34 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:18 fe[nl]ix: I created issues on github 17:08:13 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:08:48 tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 17:09:20 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-242-169.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:53 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@180.101.204.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:10:34 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-199.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:11:27 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:40 3rd issue in, need named-lambda :-) coz errors reported in (lambda () ..) kind of hard to find 17:11:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-199.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:13:55 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-146-81.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:14:04 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:33 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-29-210.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 17:15:51 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81633A.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:17:04 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Quit: ] 17:18:00 I knew i had forgotten to disable that 17:20:50 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 17:29:04 fe[nl]ix: hold on you don't want issues? 17:29:26 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has joined #lisp 17:31:37 email works better 17:33:03 pavelpenev_ [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:47 meh ok I'll send as email.. kind of wish there was single ML for all the projects with tiny traffic, as I have to update mail filters and subscribe to 10 different things.. 17:34:10 use a news reader 17:34:12 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:34:16 plus H4ns needs to fix his greylisting to least do spf checks or something 17:34:33 gmane exports many mailing lists via NNTP 17:34:49 does it do all of common-lisp ones? 17:35:07 I don't know if all 17:35:21 but the most popular are 17:38:07 maxm: https://launchpad.net/fiveam 17:38:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-199.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:38:31 *maxm* makes a rage face 17:39:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-199.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:40:06 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:40 oh cmon, launchpad.net does not have spf either, so my forgot password email is greylisted.. What is it with lazy admins these days, how hard it is to make spf record 17:44:05 fe[nl]ix: since I can't report bug properly for probably next hour (or whatever resend timeout is), here is the next bug, imho serious one too 17:45:16 fe[nl]ix: I have (def-suite all) in package.lisp, and (in-suite* foo :in all) in foo.lisp, bar.lisp, baz.lisp.. Compiling everything from scratch, everything works as expected. System uses :serial t 17:46:44 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:09 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:47:32 fe[nl]ix: but, if I change package.lisp, then do ,load-system, asdf does: compile package.lisp, load package.fasl, foo.fasl, bar.fasl, baz.fasl. The 'all suite is empty now.. 17:48:51 donno why, seems supposed to work 17:49:25 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:49:34 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:53 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.222.213] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:51:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-199.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:52:36 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@227.202-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 17:52:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-199.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:53:28 Natch_d [~Natch@178.73.212.230] has joined #lisp 17:53:34 pnq [~nick@AC81CFEC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:54:03 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:54:13 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-qgoazikqmvxotgqt] has joined #lisp 17:54:57 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:57:09 -!- Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:57:09 -!- Natch_d is now known as Natch 17:57:22 in fact (get-test 'all) returns the test-suite, with hashtable containing 3 other suites as expected. But (run! 'all) says "Did not run anything, huh?" 17:57:46 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:57:50 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-qgoazikqmvxotgqt] has quit [Client Quit] 17:57:59 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:56 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:00:23 maxm: name the toplevel suite with a keyword 18:00:37 the same as the system name 18:05:25 -!- __dict__ [~jake@c-24-22-211-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:06:24 goldenlight [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-tvtweofkkuxxjvgt] has joined #lisp 18:07:14 -!- goldenlight [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-tvtweofkkuxxjvgt] has quit [Client Quit] 18:08:53 goldenlight [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-jiepxlchfzgpuokl] has joined #lisp 18:09:27 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:10:41 doh! my own fault, I made a macro than expands to named-lambda, and forgot the funcall, so all tests simply returned a function object 18:10:53 Zetetic [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 18:11:08 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@183-122-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:33 everything is back to normal, all tests pass, gonna commit it now and call it somewhat a success :-) I'll open launchpad issues later once I recover my password 18:14:16 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-155-193-186.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:14:44 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:16:21 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:17:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:17:27 fe[nl]ix: what is the reason for naming top level suite with system name, simply convention? Or there default test-op somewhere 18:17:58 mrSpec [~Spec@213.151.94.106] has joined #lisp 18:17:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@213.151.94.106] has quit [Changing host] 18:17:58 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:17:59 make things easier 18:18:10 like adding a test-op in the .asd file 18:18:22 which is read before the defpackage it evaluated 18:18:39 ok makes sense 18:19:14 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-144-32.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:22:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:25:35 -!- mgsk is now known as fuk 18:27:16 Special_Burns [SpecialBur@180.148.36.219] has joined #lisp 18:34:01 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:35:49 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:39:20 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:20 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:39:20 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 18:46:27 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@183-122-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:46:54 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:17 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:48:32 -!- Special_Burns [SpecialBur@180.148.36.219] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:49:51 fe[nl]ix: re-submitted above stuff on launchpad 18:50:30 named-lambda is a showstopper, (in-suite*) kind of annoying, the test progress thing just a wishlist type item 18:51:44 -!- goldenlight [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-jiepxlchfzgpuokl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:54:00 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@85-137-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:19 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:55:40 -!- tony` [~tony@5ac37acc.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:33 -!- mungojelly [~user@c-174-63-74-29.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:05:12 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:05:44 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.101.58] has joined #lisp 19:07:07 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-141-210.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:09:16 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:10:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:16:17 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 19:17:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.83.162] has joined #lisp 19:17:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.83.162] has quit [Changing host] 19:17:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:18:07 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:18:16 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 19:18:36 maxm: thanks :) 19:19:25 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has joined #lisp 19:19:45 dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-179-216.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:45 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@166.137.83.89] has joined #lisp 19:24:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-67.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:25:40 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:26:22 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:28:42 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Quit: ] 19:32:19 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@166.137.83.89] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - 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I just found it somewhat surprising :D 20:34:26 zulu_inuoe: not AFAIK 20:34:57 Right-O. Thanks bud 20:35:53 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.98.220] has joined #lisp 20:37:54 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 20:41:46 gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-86-188.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:42:46 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 20:43:34 asvil [~asvil@178.120.160.72] has joined #lisp 20:45:45 -!- Zetetic [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:46:56 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:47:14 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has joined #lisp 20:47:14 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has quit [Changing host] 20:47:14 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 20:51:30 snearch [~snearch@f053015224.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:52:22 - 20:52:27 > 20:53:29 "!" 20:54:23 ¡ 20:54:57 ¯\_()_/¯ 20:55:35 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55:43 lispm [~lispm@d221027.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 20:58:32 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 21:00:20 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 21:01:30 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:02:26 centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-144-32.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:45 SeySayux [~SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has joined #lisp 21:06:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:08:24 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:08:47 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: Zzzz] 21:09:31 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.98.220] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 21:09:31 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:49 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-155-193-186.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:55 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:55 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:13:50 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:15 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:15:34 pnq [~nick@ACA37959.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:15:48 -!- DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@75-163-226-75.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:06 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@85-137-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 21:16:41 zulu_inuoe: SBCL's sb-concurrency has a good thread-safe queue, and a lock-ful version. SBCL-only (: 21:18:16 if those updated threading/concurrency compatibility layers materialise it should be easier to make such stuff portable 21:21:28 DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@75-163-226-75.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:54 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:22:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22:43 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 21:22:52 Ã/part 21:23:03 -!- moah [~moah@dslb-188-109-174-053.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 21:27:17 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:27:49 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:28:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:29:00 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA37959.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:29:30 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-135-88.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 21:29:57 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-86-188.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:31:21 -!- lispm [~lispm@d221027.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 21:31:53 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:31:53 zulu_inuoe: lparallel.org seems to have a queue and it supports both lispworks and sbcl 21:32:30 pavelpenev_: Oh cool, thanks! 21:33:08 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:33:13 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:33:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:52 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 21:34:42 zulu_inuoe: http://lparallel.org/api/queues/ is the relevant part of the doc 21:35:43 pavelpenev_: Excellent. I'll have to take a look at the rest of the project too, haven't seen this one before 21:45:01 In what units is result of zpb-ttf:kerning-offset? 21:46:22 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:47:35 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:47:50 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:48:56 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc1-sgyl27-2-0-cust785.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:34 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-28-163-106.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:01 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:14 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 21:52:53 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-153.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:52:58 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: bye] 21:54:25 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-135-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:55:07 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:56:28 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 21:59:08 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 22:03:07 -!- pavelpenev_ is now known as pavelpenev 22:03:21 lparallel is under active development and is quite good 22:03:28 just my 2c 22:03:39 Ehehe, always appreciated 22:05:21 found that kerning offset is in funits 22:06:08 I just proved to myself that i've finally grokked c(a|d)r and the deeper variants. Milestone :D 22:06:11 why does values not reach along multiple levels ? 22:06:13 whats a funit ? 22:06:37 (values x y) of a (floor 17 5) gives both, but (values (values x y)) not 22:07:03 i would have expected something like a percentage or maybe in em's with the kerning pairs deciding the amount of kerning as a percentage? 22:07:05 because when used in the argument position like that, the outer values just sees x, of course. 22:07:25 try: (multiple-value-call #'values (values x y)), is that what you want? 22:07:36 i mean i used (multiple-value-bind (x y) (floor 17 5) (values x y)) which works but not the second one with the additional (values thing.... 22:08:47 so a (values (values x y)) is not equivalent to (multiple-value-call #'values (values x y)) ? 22:08:54 bah 22:08:58 values only looks at primary values of each of the forms you give it 22:09:00 No, why would it be. 22:09:03 ShereKahn [~ajourez@140.124-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 22:09:21 It doesn't work for the same reason (+ (values 3 4)) => 3. 22:09:24 values is a normal function! 22:09:28 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.160.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:09:30 homie`: i tought that was obvious, what made you think that? 22:09:32 oh man 22:09:36 heh 22:09:39 the name values.... 22:09:43 i heard a penny drop 22:09:47 (values 10 10) 22:09:49 there, values 22:10:10 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:10:45 hmmmm, ok learned something new.... 22:11:05 Something old: values is a function. 22:11:26 well, yes but the name suggests its handling multiple values..... 22:11:33 as if i mean.... 22:11:36 No, it returns multiple values. 22:11:44 Otherwise it would have been named multiple-value something. 22:11:57 pjb: You just blew my mind.. I never realized values.. did that 22:12:02 or rather, was that* 22:14:00 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:26 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 22:16:12 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-151-153.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:17:33 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 22:18:52 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 22:20:00 ok i will make me a multiple-values along with the note on some side that valuse is for returning just one value but accepting multiple args..... 22:20:31 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_values.htm 22:20:34 bookmark it :D 22:21:22 to me this is fascinating. i dont understand what 'returning multiple values' is 22:22:37 absolute newb here.. i would have expected anything with multiple values would return them in a list. i can see why that would be less than ideal at times, but i haven't seen hwo you deal with multiple return values 22:23:12 multiple-value-*, like multiple-value-bind, multiple-value-list, etc. 22:23:53 eg, i would have thought (car (floor 12/7)) would be 1 and (cadr (floor 12/7)) would be 5/7 22:23:59 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:24:02 well, i think i already saw a snippet where something like that was already used.... 22:24:20 bike thanks, i'll look into them, tho i think i get it right off the bat 22:24:53 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:25:36 Squee-D: multiple values are better for for example optimization. E.g., if you have (+ (floor x y) z) the generated code doesn't have to bother calculating the remainder. 22:25:49 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:26:35 so if something returns multiple values, onbly the first is ever used as an element in a list? 22:27:03 I don't understand what you're asking. 22:28:15 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:28:23 thats because I'm too new to be idiomattic. 22:28:28 wbooze: values is to return several values, not to "handle" several values. 22:28:42 wbooze: values takes several parameters and returns them as several values. 22:29:32 Squee-D: in typical ABIs, results of functions are returned in a register (eg. D0, or AX). 22:29:36 -!- girzel [~user@114.250.131.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:29:48 Squee-D: since there are several registers, one can return several results. 22:30:16 See: multiple-values-limit 22:30:54 i think there's more to it based on what bike said 22:31:02 wbooze: in elisp, there's no multiple values, so cl.el implements values and nth-values as list and nth. 22:31:29 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 22:31:52 Squee-D: in the case of floor, truncate, etc, it's unfortunate, but the processors DO compute BOTH values! 22:31:59 oh ok 22:32:02 So that's not a good example of optimization. 22:32:13 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:32:32 hopefully, the point gets across regardless. 22:32:50 and pjb is right about the registers, of course. 22:33:02 Conceptually, at least. 22:33:19 On x86, you often have to use the stack to return more than one or two values 22:33:27 pbj: values is the standard idiom for indicating that only one value is to be returned 22:33:32 but its possible when defining a function to make it return multiple values, and be aware of how many were expected? 22:33:44 wbooze: you could use identity as well. 22:33:53 pjb: values returns exactly one value for each of args; as for any function call, if any of args produces more than one value, all but the first are discarded. 22:34:04 that's all from the clhs 22:34:08 wbooze: values is the standard idiom to indicate that multiple values are returned: (values 1 2 3) --> three values are returned. 22:34:34 wbooze: you're confusing what values does and what calling a function does. 22:34:37 so several args is a bit misleading i think.... 22:34:46 i mean your wording.... 22:35:00 In (values 1 2 3) there are 3 arguments: 1, 2 and 3. 22:35:23 In (values (values 1 2) (values 3 4)) there are 2 arguments: 1, and 3. 22:35:46 That's because (values 1 2) returns two values, but only one is used as argument. 22:35:53 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:36:11 Compare with: (multiple-value-call 'values (values 1 2) (values 3 4)) --> 1,2,3,4 22:36:44 yes but there's an ambiguity in several values for each arg and one value for several args...or miswording...or maybe i did confuse both 22:36:46 Here there are 3 arguments to multiple-value-call, and 4 arguments to values (the first one). 22:37:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-199.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 249 seconds] 22:37:39 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:37:41 yes that's it it returns two values, and i thought one could use both..... 22:37:47 The funny thing is that multiple values are not first class objects in lisp: you cannot bind multiple values to a variable. 22:37:57 so if i had (values (foo 12 1 7)) and foo was designed to return the reverse of the params passed in, as values. how could foo know that we only expect the first value (and thus be optimised)? 22:37:59 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:00 wbooze: which one? 22:38:29 __dict__ [~jake@c-24-22-211-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:31 Squee-D: foo wouldn't know. The compiler could do global analysis and generate a version of foo optimized for that case. 22:38:35 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-199.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:38:43 OH 22:38:46 i see. 22:38:55 Notice however that this optimization could be only very rarely be activated, because CL has a lot of side effects. 22:39:19 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053015224.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:39:29 Said otherwise: no compiler has ever been sufficiently smart to do that. 22:39:38 ok 22:39:41 ok 22:40:04 one less confusion..... 22:40:09 lol 22:40:16 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-28-163-106.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:40:16 -!- nha [~prefect@g225147087.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:42:20 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:44:28 -!- zachk [~moses@unaffiliated/zachk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:44:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-199.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:33 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-140-177.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:37 zachk [~moses@cpe-67-249-53-7.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:44:50 -!- zachk [~moses@cpe-67-249-53-7.twcny.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 22:46:36 so that whole conversation had me lookign for the correct term for "the language of a group" - like jargon - and i just cant think of the word.. but it did turn this up on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHQ2756cyD8 22:46:38 enjoy 22:51:20 -!- punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: punee] 22:52:10 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:53:24 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:55:24 clintm [~cmoore@001e52f0de2b.click-network.com] has joined #lisp 22:56:07 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:56:59 when working on, debugging, etc. a package specifically one loaded with quicklisp (and thus asdf, I guess, right?) what is the 'right way' to reload it when it's a dependency of another package short of restarting the image? 22:57:37 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:59:09 restart it independently, restart it in dependence of the package like normal.... 22:59:43 just (require 'blah) or (require 'blah :force t) maybe or so.... 23:00:03 i.e blah is either the dependent or the independent package in each case... 23:00:14 and mabe require is not sufficient.... use a 23:00:30 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:00:32 wbooze: I never even thought to look for options in (require ..) :/ 23:00:32 (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :blah :force t) or so 23:01:04 wbooze: nice.. thanks! feel kinda noobish for not even thinking require had options. 23:01:23 i'm not sure about require but asdf has that forcing option 23:01:39 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:01:55 and quicklisp too 23:03:42 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:04:50 wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:28 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 23:13:03 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:13:25 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:15:37 guyal [~michaelmu@108.235.117.64] has joined #lisp 23:17:15 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 23:19:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:49 -!- bitonic` [~user@host86-133-194-16.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:20:52 when I first encountered multiple values i got them, but the fact that (values) return NO values weirded me out for a while :) 23:21:27 -!- ShereKahn [~ajourez@140.124-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:22:16 well, i think pjb told me about that last time i asked for turning off the secondary print values.... 23:23:57 i expected (values) to return nil or something, instead it didn't return _anything_. Now it makes sense... sort of. 23:24:05 patient [~nuno@bl13-117-174.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:25:21 yes that 's in the last position of a function call.... 23:25:40 quite handy.... 23:26:54 (null (values)) => t 23:27:53 so if you use it in a function call etc, it is effectively nil 23:27:53 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:28:17 ok, so _now_ im interested... to the hyperspec 23:28:53 3.1.7 includes «if the form produces zero values, then the caller receives nil as a value.» 23:29:13 (progn (blah) (blah) (values)) 23:31:17 -!- Squee-D [~Squee-D@219-89-6-59.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:32:59 (multiple-value-list (values)) -> nil 23:33:37 Squee-D [~Squee-D@219-89-4-201.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:34:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-67.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:34:51 (multiple-value-list nil) -> (nil) So they aren't equivalent in forms that expect multiple values? 23:35:16 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 23:36:13 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:36:22 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has joined #lisp 23:36:38 (multiple-value-list (values)) = (multiple-value-call #'list (values)). multiple-value-call is defined to collect all the values from the forms, which in this case is no values, so it's like (funcall #'list). 23:36:51 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 23:36:57 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:08 ah, I get it now 23:38:09 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:39:10 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #lisp 23:39:10 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 23:39:10 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 23:39:13 -!- Squee-D [~Squee-D@219-89-4-201.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:39:48 which is the special form which eval actually all forms and returns their results on it's way ? 23:39:57 is that progv ? 23:53:52 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108.235.117.64] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 23:55:17 sanjuro_ [~sanjuro__@67-5-232-247.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:25 can somebody explain to me how lisp is "programmable" 23:56:45 wbooze: What do you mean by "returns their results on it's way?" 23:57:02 hmmm, forget it..... 23:57:08 sanjuro_: Pretty much means you can change the syntax. 23:57:16 sanjuro_: in several ways, you can program its syntax with macros, you can program its object system with the MOP 23:57:54 why would you want to, and how is that different from macros like in C/C++ 23:58:13 meiji11 [~user@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:34 sanjuro_: macros in C just do simple string substitution, macros in lisp operate on more complex data structures, that express its syntax 23:58:34 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:39 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:58:49 and you would want to do that, because if you don't the result is java code :) 23:58:55 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:45 templates in C++ seem like they can do some of this stuff, but i wan't to stay sane, so I learn as little C++ as i can in order to pass my exams