00:01:44 eph3meral [~johncarte@ool-457af2e8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:03 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:56 hey, what are the canonical resources for learning lisp? 00:05:18 minion, tell eph3meral about pcl-book 00:05:18 eph3meral: have a look at pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 00:05:32 eph3meral: seibel's practical common lisp, norvig's paip, touretzky's gentle introduction. 00:05:35 here's a ... oh nvm. Minion already gave you what I was about to give you. 00:05:44 eph3meral: depending on your level. 00:06:04 -!- Axiom is now known as Guest53528 00:06:04 -!- Guest53528 [42eb2f73@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.235.47.115] has quit [Killed (kornbluth.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 00:07:37 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:07:54 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 00:08:01 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 00:09:17 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:09:50 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:58 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 00:10:29 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 00:12:03 anyone get clsql running with the mysql backend on OSX 10.7 + sbcl? 00:12:08 -!- ozialien [~ernest@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:27 not sure where port installs the libmysql etc 00:12:39 *j_king* not native to OSX either 00:12:55 Sorella [~quildreen@186-241-47-127.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 00:12:56 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@186-241-47-127.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 00:12:56 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 00:13:18 lebro [~monx@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:35 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 00:14:09 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:15:12 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15:19 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:16:38 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-39.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 00:16:59 hey, I'm trying to load cl-charms using (ql:quickload "cl-charms") 00:17:02 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:17:53 but I keep getting an error saying "*** - unable to load any of the alternatives: ("libcurses.so" "libncurses.so") 00:18:00 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 00:18:06 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 00:18:10 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:18:28 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:18:37 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:19:05 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has joined #lisp 00:19:13 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:20:01 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:20:19 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:35 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 00:21:23 Bike: next time, advise the asking to ask newbie to read http://cliki.net/IRC 00:21:44 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 00:22:18 pjb: Sorry, who are you referring to? 00:22:44 -!- jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:24:36 Axiom 00:24:52 kpreid: the canonical resourceS to learn CL are on http://cliki.net/ 00:25:00 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:25:12 Oh, you mean the "don't ask to ask" thing. I'll keep the page in mind. 00:25:19 Yep. 00:25:25 And the don't disconnect right away. 00:25:32 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:25:54 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 00:25:59 jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has joined #lisp 00:26:08 duran_blu: perhaps you need to install those libraries with your linux distribution package management software? 00:26:36 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@159-28-11.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:26:45 duran_blu: are you using ccl? 00:27:25 sbcl has issues with ncurses being a linker script on some distros 00:27:31 duran_blu: How do you want people to help you if you don't answer here? 00:27:42 ccl too. 00:27:43 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Client Quit] 00:27:43 (I did answer) 00:27:44 duran_blu, memo from pjb: you did it again! <01:28:56> Well, I'm using  and then: <01:32:15> *** duran_blu (~gm@pool-71-161-51-67.clppva.btas.verizon.net) has quit: Quit: WeeChat 0.3. !!! 00:28:04 (and I didn't disconnect) 00:28:18 (or at least, I didn't tell my client to disconnect me) 00:28:47 Yeah, I have ncurses installed. 00:28:57 What's ccl? 00:29:18 duran_blu: right, you reconnected. 00:29:26 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 00:29:35 ccl is Clozure CL 00:29:37 oh 00:29:55 No, I don't think so. 00:31:31 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 00:32:36 Lemme check if I have ccl or not. 00:32:36 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 00:32:36 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-141.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:39 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:47 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:33:03 duran_blu: check https://bugs.launchpad.net/cffi/+bug/941257 00:33:15 It actually was a bug in cffi. 00:33:33 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 00:33:46 kk 00:36:40 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:36:53 so will this script in the bug description thing fix my problem, you think? 00:37:03 so will this script in the bug description thing fix my problem? 00:37:04 oops 00:37:06 reposted 00:37:12 If your problem is the same, yes. It did for me. 00:37:15 kk 00:37:17 I'll try it out 00:37:33 You can easily find out with: file /usr/lib/libncurses.so 00:37:51 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 00:37:51 If it says: /usr/lib/libncurses.so: ASCII English text ; then it may be the problem. 00:38:01 it does say ASCII text 00:38:33 Then you have to patch cffi, or get a newer version that's corrected already. 00:38:58 Well, the bug report is not closed yet, so you will have to patch your cffi. See the instructions in the bug report. 00:39:00 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:04 how do I do that? I thought that the script iterated in the bug description would do that? 00:39:27 It's not a script, it's a function and the description of what to change in CFFI. 00:40:03 kk 00:42:26 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:43:09 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 00:43:34 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 00:43:44 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:17 quotemstr [~quotemstr@dancol.org] has joined #lisp 00:47:27 Woo. clisp builds with -DWIDE=1. 00:48:33 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:48:59 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 00:49:37 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:51:05 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:37 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 00:54:17 -!- tensorpudding 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quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:18:01 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c21d6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:15 -!- hrs_ [~textual@c-174-62-169-43.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 01:21:11 -!- yakov [~yakov@176.14.143.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:21:25 -!- prxq__ [~mommer@mnhm-4d011e37.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:22:03 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 01:23:05 Squee-D [~Squee-D@122-57-74-191.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:24:11 my clisp repl, instead of quiting on :q, quit, exit, enters a continuation 01:24:11 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.70.73] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:24:28 Any idea what I'm doing wrong? 01:26:12 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-28-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:26:45 ozialien [~ernest@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:05 ok duh, they're functions, parens helps :D 01:28:31 getoffmalawn 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seconds] 02:25:01 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 02:29:03 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Client Quit] 02:30:07 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 02:30:46 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA3BF32.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:33:19 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:33:37 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has joined #lisp 02:35:35 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 02:46:16 -!- duran_blu [~gm@pool-71-161-51-67.clppva.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:46:23 duran_blu [~gm@pool-71-161-51-67.clppva.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:49 could somebody help me out with this bugfix for cffi? Here's the link to the bugfix. https://bugs.launchpad.net/cffi/+bug/941257 02:58:08 stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.30.242] has joined #lisp 02:58:21 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.30.242] has quit [Client Quit] 03:00:14 stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.30.242] has joined #lisp 03:01:23 Rosnec [~Rosnec@140.115.34.79] has joined #lisp 03:02:09 -!- mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:15 Is there a way to unpack the list produced from &rest so I can use mapcar on it? 03:02:45 &rest produces a list containing N lists 03:02:46 It is a list, so you can use mapcar on it. 03:02:52 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 03:02:59 I want to use mapcar on the lists within it 03:03:20 So, why not use mapcar to get the lists within it, and then use mapcar on those? 03:04:21 what function would I give to mapcar to unpack the lists? 03:04:35 That's what mapcar does ... 03:04:44 sorry, I'm pretty new to lisp 03:04:45 ice [~ice@123.114.34.82] has joined #lisp 03:04:54 don't I need to give mapcar a function before the list? 03:05:23 Sure, so give it the function that does what you want done to each list in the list. 03:05:42 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 03:05:43 oh, so give it another mapcar? 03:05:59 -!- carlo_au [~carlo@ppp59-167-13-7.lns1.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:06:07 or a lambda function which uses another mapcar? 03:06:56 all I'm trying to do is multiply 2 or more lists 03:07:21 so (foo '(1 2 3) '(1 10 0)) --> (1 20 0) 03:07:43 and (foo '(1 2 3) '(1 10 0) '(2 2 2)) --> (2 40 0) 03:09:37 Rosnec: you are multiplying component-wise? 03:10:03 yeah 03:10:22 is there a built-in for that in CL? 03:15:25 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 03:16:38 Not directly, iirc 03:18:52 I found a function on the web that almost does what I want 03:19:03 I'm just gonna modify it a bit 03:19:27 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@101.63.152.120] has joined #lisp 03:19:54 -!- coder` [~user@p549189F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:22:44 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:23:39 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 03:24:38 Rosnec, what about mapcar? 03:27:13 bjorkintosh: mapcar will take each successive list in &rest in turn - it won't give a list of the heads of &rest, which is what he needs 03:27:34 ah. 03:32:41 (mapcar #'* '(1 2 3) '(1 10 0)) 03:34:39 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:34:45 -!- meiji11 [~user@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:35:07 Rosnec: It's not the best style imo, but you can create a macro (defmacro comp-mul-macro (&rest rest) 03:35:07 `(mapcar #'* ,@rest)) 03:35:39 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:35:47 -!- duran_blu [~gm@pool-71-161-51-67.clppva.btas.verizon.net] has left #lisp 03:35:51 snearch [~snearch@f053006077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 03:36:02 duran_blu [~gm@pool-71-161-51-67.clppva.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:10 -!- duran_blu [~gm@pool-71-161-51-67.clppva.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40:13 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053006077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 03:44:37 <|3b|> (apply #'mapcar #'* rest)? 03:46:32 |3b|: You win hard. I've been seeking an answer to the &rest idiom for ages. 03:46:40 how come there are so many books on algorithms and datastructures in pascal/c/c++/java but almost none that i've seen for lisp? 03:46:41 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.82.19] has joined #lisp 03:46:49 duran_blu [~gm@pool-71-161-51-67.clppva.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:09 market size 03:48:25 really? there aren't even old books on the subject. 03:48:46 am0c_ [~am0c@203.246.179.173] has joined #lisp 03:49:11 bjorkintosh: I haven't read sicp, but the video lectures enlightened me while I was in high-school, I've been obsessed about lisp dialects ever since. 03:49:12 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 03:49:36 does it count as an algorithms book? 03:49:47 not quite! 03:49:58 it assumes you know the algorithms. 03:52:10 bjorkintosh: good algorithms books transcend language du jour. 03:52:28 bad algorithms books cater to the language with the biggest audience 03:52:31 of course. 03:52:41 benny [~user@i577A77F4.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 03:52:49 so how come no bad algorithms books exist with a lisp emphasis? 03:52:58 or am i missing something? 03:54:08 i've seen "bad" ones for haskell/sml. 03:54:32 which are both much younger and less bearded than lisp. 03:58:52 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:59:45 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-138-16-76.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:01:04 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:02:40 teggi [~teggi@113.172.38.202] has joined #lisp 04:04:02 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:16 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:05:21 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-102-59.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 04:06:32 aha. there's a sorta answer here: http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/lisp.html 04:07:12 " Even though in Computer Science terms Lisp is an ancient language, few people to date figured out how to teach it well enough to make it accessible." 04:07:48 no one's figured out how to write a decent algorithms text book for lisp?! 04:09:19 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:12:01 Writing technical books doesn't pay very well. 04:12:20 If you're going to write one, _____ In Javascript is going to pay a lot better than _____ In Lisp. 04:12:25 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 04:12:37 you're right. 04:12:52 but i'm puzzled by the fact that i haven't seen one from the '70s or '60s either! 04:12:57 Thus, the more mercenary writers don't bother. 04:13:21 And the less mercenary ones figure that by the time you've learned Lisp, you've got half the algorithms and data structures you need built in, and the other half are easy to pick up from somewhere else. 04:14:23 I don't think "Algorithms and Data Structures in $LANGUAGE" really picked up until around 1990. 04:14:54 I've got the second edition Gonnet and Baeza-Yates book from around then, and it was all done in Pascal and C. 04:15:14 Anyway, speculation about the non-existence of Lisp books isn't really on-topic. 04:15:14 algorithms + datastructures = programs is from the '70s. 04:15:34 why not? an insight might help the curious. 04:16:17 dasani8 [4b10360b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.16.54.11] has joined #lisp 04:16:38 It might indeed, and I suspect it'd be a good rollicking discussion in #lispcafe. 04:17:06 But it's not about programming in Common Lisp, it's about not reading books about Common Lisp (because other people aren't writing 'em) and that's getting way off on a tangent. 04:17:40 heheh. x in lisp, does not exist, therefore one cannot read about x in lisp. which makes lisp that much less penetrable. 04:18:32 There are skimpty-'leven different books on learning to program in Common Lisp. Inevitably, each of them ends up discussing some algorithms. 04:19:21 If you've gone through Siebel and Norvig and Winston&Horn and Abelson&Sussman&Sussman and Graham and you still haven't managed to pick up some algorithms, I'd guess you aren't going to. 04:19:33 hahah. 04:19:37 that's not the point at all. 04:20:51 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:21:19 I gather it isn't your point. 04:21:42 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:21:54 If you're arguing that Somebody Else oughtta be writing niche topic-related programming books using Common Lisp as the jumping-off point, I believe I've already addressed that above under "there's no money in it." 04:22:26 'course. 04:22:43 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-ehyujyvnqsnmxgjl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:23:16 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:23:40 snearch [~snearch@f053006077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:24:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-140.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:24:15 BountyX [~andrew@76.14.85.11] has joined #lisp 04:24:24 -!- pspace [~andrew@76.14.85.11] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:24:57 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053006077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:25:14 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 04:25:23 snearch [~snearch@f053006077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:25:55 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:29:48 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:32:15 pnq [~nick@AC8173F4.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:32:55 -!- jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:33:59 -!- dasani8 [4b10360b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.16.54.11] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:34:35 -!- Tuxedo [~tuxedo@bas1-cooksville17-1279544933.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:36:16 Tuxedo [~FreeTux@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:43 asvil [~asvil@178.120.1.24] has joined #lisp 04:41:32 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 04:44:43 jcazevedo_ [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-160.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 04:47:19 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-76-116.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:47:20 -!- jcazevedo_ is now known as jcazevedo 04:47:58 -!- EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:55:36 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:01:46 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:09:22 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:12:04 -!- wakeup_ [~max@xdsl-89-0-148-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:15:56 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.23.207] has joined #lisp 05:18:29 good morning, are there any clx web manual mirrors? Links from cliki do not work. 05:25:43 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053006077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 05:26:08 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@91-67-216-224-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 05:28:31 Aiwass [~user@188.26.201.223] has joined #lisp 05:29:16 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 05:35:16 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-baztrjxbauinywbm] has joined #lisp 05:35:17 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-baztrjxbauinywbm] has quit [Changing host] 05:35:17 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:38:33 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:41:41 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 05:41:49 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8173F4.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:45:24 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@91-67-216-224-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:46:11 -!- setmeaway [stemearay@118.45.149.206] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:46:50 asvil: I'm not sure, but there's also a copy of it in the ecl repository... perhaps also check common-lisp.net 05:47:51 if you find a package for it on some unix distribution, you also could check where they get its source to build it 05:51:56 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:52:24 -!- getoffmalawn [~getoffmal@203.206.169.15] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 05:53:28 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 05:55:22 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has joined #lisp 05:56:55 jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has joined #lisp 05:58:41 gko [~user@42-75-50-162.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:57 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@203.246.179.173] has quit [Quit: am0c_] 05:59:23 -!- Aiwass [~user@188.26.201.223] has left #lisp 06:00:01 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 06:01:32 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:01:48 mathrick 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06:57:29 momo-reina [~user@122.179.86.72] has joined #lisp 06:59:10 can anyone point me to a resource on function pipelines? is that the same as shell pipes? 06:59:56 i came across the term in the book land of lisp and can't seem to find anything on google about it... 07:00:38 -!- eph3meral [~johncarte@ool-457af2e8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:05:10 -!- momo-reina [~user@122.179.86.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:06:34 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:08:33 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:08:38 zeroSignal [3e28ae9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.40.174.157] has joined #lisp 07:09:04 -!- zeroSignal [3e28ae9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.40.174.157] has quit [Client Quit] 07:10:34 springz [~springz@118-163-74-175.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:10 -!- ozialien [~ernest@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:13:13 ozialien [~ernest@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:37 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 07:15:25 -!- jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:18:39 lemonodor [~lemonodor@mobile-198-228-208-094.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:30 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 07:25:12 jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has joined #lisp 07:25:41 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:29:07 So, what is it? I've never heard of it 07:29:28 What does the book say about them? 07:29:50 ah, he left 07:30:43 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:30:46 perhaps it's related to perl pipelines? 07:30:57 @array => function => function => function => @result-array 07:31:17 in perl6 ... contrasting to perl5 (and lisp) 07:31:43 (let ((result (function (function (function data)))) which has to be read inside-out (or bottom-up, if wrapped) 07:32:58 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-39.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:34:55 -!- mindCrime [~prhodes@c-67-162-98-95.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:35:53 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:38:51 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-65-189.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:55 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 07:41:55 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:45:36 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:48:21 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:48:34 -!- SHUPFS [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:49:37 abeaumont [~Alfredo@114.88.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 07:51:37 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/session] has joined #lisp 07:51:37 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 07:52:55 anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 07:52:56 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/session] has quit [Changing host] 07:52:56 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-gzyssrxniosxhiwu] has joined #lisp 08:01:03 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@mobile-198-228-208-094.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 08:01:38 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:06:15 That just looks ugly in perl, IMHO. 08:06:52 But, you might be right 08:07:05 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:08:10 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.70.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:09:38 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:09:56 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 08:10:13 is there something like hierarchical packages usable in sbcl? like http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/current/doc/packages.htm#17 08:13:39 punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:43 -!- duran_blu [~gm@pool-71-161-51-67.clppva.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:00 duran_blu [~gm@pool-71-161-51-67.clppva.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:14:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.77.77] has joined #lisp 08:14:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.77.77] has quit [Changing host] 08:14:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:17:03 -!- Squee-D [~Squee-D@122-57-74-191.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [] 08:17:15 ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has joined #lisp 08:27:20 cymew: have a look at http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/190d771c0e033a1c 08:29:31 tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.70.73] has joined #lisp 08:30:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:31:11 oh my 08:31:20 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:31:50 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129054163.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 08:36:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:37:14 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:38:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.77.77] has joined #lisp 08:38:55 -!- attila_lendvai 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has joined #lisp 12:36:26 getoffmalawn [~getoffmal@14-202-66-99.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:38:11 iamatest [5bd45e05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.212.94.5] has joined #lisp 12:38:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:38:46 LiamH [~healy@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:40:50 -!- jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:43:01 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 12:47:28 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:47:49 momo-reina [~user@122.179.72.60] has joined #lisp 12:47:57 jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has joined #lisp 12:48:56 can anyone point me to some resources on function pipelining? i came across the term in barksi's land of lisp but can't find any definition of the term after googling.... it is the same concept as shell pipelines? 12:49:17 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 12:51:40 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:54:01 -!- benny [~user@i577A77F4.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:54:09 I can't assume that (delete) on adjustable vector will return adjustable vector according to clhs? 12:55:10 seems silly to roll your own delete, meh 12:56:52 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 12:58:53 lilin [~lilin@116.19.167.215] has joined #lisp 13:00:29 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 13:01:26 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-28-163-106.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:26 -!- lilin [~lilin@116.19.167.215] has quit [Client Quit] 13:01:38 maxm: good question. as far as I can see, the clhs says nothing about it. 13:02:12 mal__: says in the end of article on delete, "if sequence is vector, result may or may not be simple" 13:02:58 yeah and there's the glossary for actually adjustable 13:04:13 personally I would expect an implementation to keep adjustability but it's not required 13:04:54 momo-reina: first go read http://cliki.net/IRC 13:05:11 If you had last time, then you would have had your answer a few hours ago already. 13:05:53 mechanyancat: then have a look at http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/1bab4b5bae1fdca3 and http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/190d771c0e033a1c 13:06:02 s/mechanyancat/momo-reina/ 13:06:10 pjb: actually we had a power outage 13:06:14 just came back 13:06:22 ok. 13:06:22 thanks for the link! 13:06:39 momo-reina: in those cases, there are also logs. google for irc log lisp 13:07:01 To any interested, we are attempting ICFP at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEWPBOoe9l4&feature=plcp to join in tell me in #cure-for-the-common-lisp 13:07:12 if it's of any interest for anyone here, .. 13:07:16 maxm: if it as a fill-pointer on the other hand 13:07:20 as smithzv just said. ~_~ 13:07:58 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:08:29 maxm: but even with a fill-pointer, an implementation is free to do (setf (symbol-function 'delete) (symbol-function 'remove)). 13:08:43 (eg. an implementation that would target memory deprived platforms). 13:08:44 yea sucks 13:08:46 16:21 If you had last time, then you would have had your answer a few hours ago already. 13:08:59 oh sorry, just wrong buffer 13:09:27 ok, a little unjust, it was cymew asking, not momo-reina. 13:09:36 Funny how questions arrives in buckets. 13:09:57 would be cool if alexandria's (deletef ) macro could take care or it or accepted a keyword to keep array fillp-ointered 13:11:18 maxm: the point is that various implementations implemented delete differently, so the standard could not standardize on a single behavior. If you want a precise behavior, indeed you have to implement it yourself. 13:11:21 I got all the answers I wanted 13:11:57 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:12:25 springz [~springz@119.36.38.198] has joined #lisp 13:13:48 benny [~user@i577A2426.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:14:30 sunwukong [~vukung@catv-80-98-247-63.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:14:52 Harag [~phil@dsl-244-25-107.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:14:55 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:17:00 -!- StretchedALot [StretchedA@93.89.92.12] has quit [Quit: H. Rollins Shells (817) 504-9915] 13:17:38 StretchedALot [StretchedA@93.89.92.12] has joined #lisp 13:17:48 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 13:18:02 -!- StretchedALot [StretchedA@93.89.92.12] has quit [Client Quit] 13:19:37 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 13:20:18 -!- momo-reina [~user@122.179.72.60] has left #lisp 13:20:25 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@catv-80-98-247-63.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:35 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:21:48 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:22:20 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 13:24:00 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-140.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:06 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:24:11 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Client Quit] 13:24:36 StretchedALot [StretchedA@93.89.92.12] has joined #lisp 13:27:03 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 13:29:05 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:12 -!- StretchedALot [StretchedA@93.89.92.12] has quit [K-Lined] 13:29:16 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:16 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:32:48 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B27B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:00 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:39:23 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.129.121] has joined #lisp 13:40:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:43:52 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:45 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:49:03 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:50:07 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129054163.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:50:58 CLOS is absolutely awesome. Sometimes people look at object model and see all these "tag-like" this-mixin/that-mixin. For example, every object that somehow (through a chain of child gui elements) belongs to certain top-level window, is inheriting in-chart-window-mixin 13:51:59 seems silly, but a few strategically placed :after methods on add-item/remove-item generics, and suddenly I can have bullet-proof lru-lists of all objects in the top level window, no matter what sub-window they belong to, or how they travel or are cut-n-pasted between subcharts 13:53:11 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:54:17 maxm: what do you mean by lru-lists ? 13:54:19 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 13:54:44 wbooze: least-recently-used 13:55:02 wbooze: kind of like alt-tab list in windows.. Think a vector drawing canvvas, with bunch of objects.. You want master list of objects to maintain the order they were added in, but also to have LRU / z-order like relationship 13:55:03 ah 13:58:45 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 13:59:41 kanru [~kanru@36-226-36-134.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:47 the danger is as with any powerful concept, is getting carried away with it and making too many protocols 14:02:52 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:34 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-eixrrwjsfvqhldbx] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:05:31 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:37 -!- ice [~ice@123.114.34.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:07:01 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:11:22 Patience_ [~Patience@CPE-121-217-230-123.lnse3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 14:16:21 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@101.63.152.120] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:17:07 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Quit: le mieux que je peux] 14:18:06 pavelpenev: iolib has a nicer API for directory walking/enumeration and process execution 14:20:32 nicdev` [~user@kilimanjaro.rafpepa.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:34 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-28-163-106.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:20:54 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:21:41 -!- nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:21:49 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 14:22:08 -!- dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:22:23 ice [~ice@123.114.34.82] has joined #lisp 14:23:08 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:23:31 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:40 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 14:24:06 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:24:09 fsmunoz` [~user@bl7-186-130.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 14:25:00 dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has joined #lisp 14:25:20 fe[nl]ix: thank you for the advice. I will look into it. 14:27:12 just make sure you use the git version(which also needs cffi HEAD) because the last release is a bit old 14:28:06 fe[nl]ix: the one in quicklisp is outdated? 14:28:24 yes 14:30:18 -!- fsmunoz` is now known as fsmunoz 14:32:00 -!- dan64- [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:36:53 pavelpenev: are you in lisp jabber channel? 14:37:15 russian lisp jabber channel* 14:37:27 -!- szergling [~Yong@110-175-226-225.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:35 basso [~quassel@pc5038.stdby.hin.no] has joined #lisp 14:38:35 szergling [~Yong@110-175-226-225.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:40:28 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:04 paul0 [~paul0@177.16.148.59] has joined #lisp 14:44:39 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:45:54 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:46:44 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-69-203-204-197.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:48:06 asvil: no, and i'm Bulgarian 14:51:17 :D 14:52:31 asvil: what's the russian jabber channel, btw? 14:52:41 #lisp-ru 14:53:13 holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:12 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has joined #lisp 14:55:24 pavelpenev: :) slavonic nick. lisp@conference.jabber.ru 14:55:36 antoszka: 14:56:46 a, thx. 14:56:55 xscc [~xscc@113.200.85.206] has joined #lisp 14:56:58 asvil: Common mistake i suppose :) 14:57:02 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:24 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810119.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:58:07 -!- xscc [~xscc@113.200.85.206] has quit [Client Quit] 14:59:42 -!- punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:00:01 punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:48 -!- kushal 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[~michael@99.102.70.73] has joined #lisp 15:56:26 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 15:56:27 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:56:27 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:56:44 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has left #lisp 16:01:57 wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-152-176.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:01 hi 16:02:13 -!- iamatest [5bd45e05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.212.94.5] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:02:45 if I do (defsetf setf-defn set-defn "setf") 16:03:08 shouldn't (fdefinition '(setf setf-defn)) yield a value? 16:03:25 AFAIK, no. 16:03:42 setf uses several different mechanisms, and (setf name) is just one of them. 16:03:54 ugh 16:03:54 a function named (setf name), that is 16:04:42 -!- getoffmalawn [~getoffmal@14-202-66-99.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 249 seconds] 16:06:23 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@198.228.215.30] has joined #lisp 16:07:02 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:07:52 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 16:07:54 ok wait so if I make a place setfable via defsetf what symbol do I need to export in order to use the new setf mechanism? 16:08:22 -!- treyka [~treyka@ip-188-118-20-209.reverse.destiny.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:08:22 the symbol. 16:09:11 and how do I find out if a setf mechanism is tied to extrnal symbol x? 16:09:26 (defsetf thing set-thing "set a thing.") 16:09:31 wakeup: reading the documentation. 16:10:03 You could export thing, and then use (setf (thing x) ) or you could export set-thing and then use (set-thing new-value x). 16:10:14 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-242-169.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:57 ok I am asking because lispdoc.lisp does this: 16:11:58 (let ((spec `(setf ,symbol))) 16:11:58 (when (and (documentation spec 'function) 16:11:59 (fboundp spec)) 16:12:14 which doesn't work for me 16:12:34 looks more like a heuristic than a rule 16:12:46 to say it concisely, yes. 16:13:07 It works only on (defun (setf sym) ) and (defgeneric (setf sym) ). 16:16:19 ah I see 16:16:34 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:17:32 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 16:19:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:24:12 list is scary language :O 16:24:31 lisp* 16:24:37 cant even spell it right 16:24:46 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:24:51 and my little finger hurts 16:24:53 basso: no. 16:24:57 -!- ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:25:38 basso: you're easily scared away. 16:26:00  16:26:05 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@198.228.215.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:27:08 im quite new to emacs and lisp, so yes ^^ 16:28:48 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:30:07 basso: don't use the little finger for Control 16:30:34 use the opposite Control in key bindings 16:30:49 in C-e use the right Ctrl, in C-u use the left one 16:31:29 -!- wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-152-176.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:32:02 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:32:31 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:17 or remap Caps->Ctrl 16:34:02 atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has joined #lisp 16:34:30 ahh will try that trick! 16:34:46 does not work so great if, like pjb, you write lisp code in all caps 16:35:05 antgreen [~user@out-on-196.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:13 I don't write it like that. I use M-x upcase-lisp RET after the fact. 16:35:17 basso: http://emacswiki.org/emacs/MovingTheCtrlKey 16:36:07 nha [~prefect@f052231198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:36:16 lcc: remapping CapsLock will not make the problem go away 16:36:46 Hm, I need to add to that page. If you remap control from the console settings, it works for X *and* text consoles. 16:37:30 Which is to say, XKBOPTIONS="ctrl:nocaps" in /dev/default/keyboard on Debian, or something similar for your local variety. 16:38:09 I never touched emacs until I found out about the caps lock thing, I actually don't think I ever even use the right ctrl 16:39:02 I still dislike that Emacs effectively has vi-like modes which require the user to hold down a key as the mode-select-and-maintain, but that's unlikely to change any time soon. :P 16:39:34 ChibaPet: you can use M-x for everything. 16:39:39 M-x forward-char RET 16:39:57 And since you can type M- as ESC, that means you can type: ESC x forward-char RET 16:40:03 Only single keypresses. 16:40:32 Yes, you can do that, but it's a straw man that's struggling with a lighter without any outside intervention, all on its own. 16:42:32 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:42:33 I just make my alt keys be C and win keys be meta, works better than caps lock 16:44:10 also, the db/orm libraries are all a bit over my head atm, are there any particularly good serialization libraries out there? I've realized I'm still not the best at being able to tell which libs to use 16:44:46 I use cl-store for simple stuff. It Just Works for everything I've tried so far. 16:45:11 Stick an instance into a file, load it out of a file, easy as can be. 16:46:01 Xach: thanks, I'll check that out. Definitely looks pretty simple. 16:46:02 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:46:12 at least I can follow the example... 16:47:36 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 16:48:20 pnq [~nick@ACA20151.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:49:00 -!- yakov [~yakov@spb.nexenta.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:50:03 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:51:21 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.129.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:51:28 -!- LiamH [~healy@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:51:52 /wuit 16:51:55 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-235-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:54:23 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:55:58 antgreen` [~user@out-on-196.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 16:56:13 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 16:56:36 -!- szergling [~Yong@110-175-226-225.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #lisp 16:57:07 -!- antgreen [~user@out-on-196.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:58:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 16:58:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:59:56 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 17:05:22 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-144-32.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:05:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:08:36 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 17:09:49 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:52 -!- mrm [~user@92.50.188.118] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:10:19 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:02 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:13:51 -!- bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:01 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 17:14:52 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Client Quit] 17:16:07 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 17:16:30 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Client Quit] 17:16:51 -!- nicdev` is now known as nicdev 17:17:38 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 17:21:17 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Client Quit] 17:21:52 I have a style question, I have a function that I'm only going to use inside one other function, so i define it using flet, but I've decided to put the main function inside the body of the flet rather than the opposite(as is the common pattern in scheme and clojure) to make the body of my main function more readable. Is this bad karma? 17:22:11 SHUPFS [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:52 so (flet (...) (defun () ...)) rather than (defun () (flet (...) ...)) 17:23:21 pavelpenev: why? Just (defun ...) (defun ...) 17:23:34 or (defun foo () (flet ...)) 17:23:39 ok stumpwm build and running 17:23:44 with emacs and stumpish now 17:23:48 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 17:23:49 eheh 17:24:23 pavelpenev: yeah, packages are for hiding such functions from the rest of the world, so you don't need to flet at all just b/c it's a private function 17:24:44 -!- springz [~springz@119.36.38.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:25:41 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:26:00 *holycow* high fives wbooze 17:26:02 :) 17:26:34 http://picpaste.de/pics/Bildschirmfoto3-FUxosdEv.1342200375.png 17:26:57 i used mrxvt as terminal 17:26:57 jasom, sykopomp : my goal is more clarity, flet says this isn't used anywhere else, and if i put it on the outside the body of the main function is easier to read and skim. 17:26:59 LiamH [~healy@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:27:10 pavelpenev: http://i.imgur.com/Oqd2J.gif 17:27:12 papit's bad, because flet doesn't preserve toplevelness of its body. 17:27:18 unlike LET. 17:27:39 AFAIK, I may be wrong. 17:27:57 wbooze: neat. i use urxvt 17:27:59 you are, only progn/eval-when 17:28:12 I thought LET didn't preserve toplevelness, either. 17:28:29 But then, (let () (defun )) works ok, so (flet () (defun )) should work as well. 17:28:52 *sykopomp* wouldn't consider that more readable. 17:29:08 it works ok, but defun is executed at the load time, and may not get compiled 17:29:10 pavelpenev: it would be good if you had two functions using the flet. 17:30:32 Well, macroexpansion occurs, so the function body should be compiled at compilation time. It's the rest of the defun that's not compiled, but it's run only once at load time. 17:31:45 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:31:58 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:32:54 holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:57 thats all good to know. 17:33:01 back 17:33:03 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:33:22 to the hyperspec for me :) 17:34:36 lemonodor [~lemonodor@mobile-198-228-211-223.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:46 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:35:53 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:36:46 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-166-21-1-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:50 so... I was trying to work with cl-store, but I think I'm screwing something up. so far I've only been interacting with lisp through a project I made via quickproject, and I'm not used to working with just bare defuns/no package lisp files. 17:36:58 is there a reason why this example isn't working for me? 17:36:58 mbriggs [~user@64.215.160.39] has joined #lisp 17:37:01 https://gist.github.com/3106174 17:37:20 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@mobile-198-228-211-223.mycingular.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:37:32 I loaded cl-store in slime, and I ran C-x C-e at the end of each of those statements 17:37:45 but there is no test.out file... 17:38:10 hey guys, i'm a bit of a lisp noob, but is there any way to have for clauses in the loop form execute one after the other? (sort of like let vs let*) here is an example of what i am trying to do https://gist.github.com/3106173 17:38:34 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-166-21-1-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:38:51 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-192-43.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 17:39:28 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.4.241] has joined #lisp 17:39:30 mbriggs: ... for k = (* i i) 17:39:51 IN is only for going through a list, not for assigning some value 17:40:45 Xach: Awesome, thanks :) 17:41:00 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-192-43.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:42:07 dekuked: and no error messages? You sure you know your lisp current directory? Give file an absolute path, or check *default-pathname-defaults* 17:42:08 dekuked: where are you looking for the file? i tried your example it created it in ~/Documents/test.out because that happened to be my working directory, try M-x slime-pwd and look there 17:43:46 lemonodor [~lemonodor@adsl-76-214-3-94.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:20 Cosman246 [~user@D-69-91-157-128.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 17:45:28 Hello 17:45:43 wbooze: first time trying stumpwm? 17:45:48 Is Debian's version of sbcl up to date? 17:45:59 And if not, how can I upgrade without breaking sbcl? 17:46:10 yes 17:46:14 my fist time 17:46:15 Cosman246: i compile from source 17:46:22 well i think i got it now 17:46:37 pavelpenev: I would too, but recently I tried to show my friend CL 17:46:41 Cosman246: I use debian, but always get sbcl from www.sbcl.org. 17:46:46 it is up to date. 17:46:47 when I tried to install a more recent version of SBCL 17:46:59 it would appear to compile fine 17:47:01 1.0.57 is the latest. 17:47:03 -!- ice [~ice@123.114.34.82] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:47:24 but when I would invoke it, it would complain that /usr/blah/sbcl didn't exist 17:47:34 (substitute the default install directory for blah) 17:47:34 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 17:47:36 hash -r 17:47:44 (maybe) 17:47:54 hmmm 17:48:18 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-43.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:49:08 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-166-21-1-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:46 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-43.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:50:08 yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-219.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 17:50:20 hash -r what? 17:50:50 maxm, pavelpenev: thanks, that was the problem! just looking in the wrong place 17:51:32 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@dancol.org] has left #lisp 17:51:43 Cosman246: in bash. 17:52:26 ...OK 17:53:13 (I know where to run, 17:53:24 I was wondering whether or not to add anything more to that) 17:53:38 nope. 17:54:12 'k thanks 17:54:35 -!- hugod [~user@76.65.142.49] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:54:38 (did it help?) 17:55:15 Well, I wouldn't know; said friend isn't here right now 17:55:20 I'll be sure to test it next time 17:55:26 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:55:38 When I tried installing 1.0.57, though, interestingly, it didn't upgrade-- 17:55:46 it still runs 1.0.55 17:56:01 ah 17:56:44 meh, probably won't do anything bad 17:57:13 Thanks again 17:57:32 -!- ameoba [~sean@c-24-22-33-249.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:57:32 hugod [~user@76.65.142.49] has joined #lisp 17:58:31 another loop question, is there any way to for..in over two lists where the second list is dependant on the first? like https://gist.github.com/3106300 17:59:09 i know its kind of wierd, trying to do something a little funny in elisp and end up with a single list as the result 17:59:19 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:59:57 mbriggs: (loop for a in list-a do (loop for b in list-b ...))? 18:00:14 mbriggs: your second clause has another IN where = is appropriate 18:00:32 oh. nvm. 18:00:37 what Xach said. 18:00:51 might help to show the real examples. these toys are not all that realistic. 18:01:14 Xach: ok, bad example, in what im trying to do the second for..in is also returning a list that i want to iterate over, call a function, then collect 18:01:15 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:01:18 sure, one moment 18:01:31 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.38.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:58 https://gist.github.com/3106341 18:02:30 railgun-file-types returns a list of symbols 18:03:00 mbriggs: dlowe has the right of it, i think. it should be nested. 18:03:01 all-files-under-dir-recursively will return a list of paths given the search path of the current iteration of type 18:03:10 -!- ignas [~ignas@78.63.105.97] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:03:44 mbriggs: (loop for a in list-a nconc (loop for b in list-b collect b))? 18:04:05 yeah 18:04:09 i think thats what i want 18:04:14 If you want to recurse, it's probably better to actually recurse. 18:04:45 this was my first adventure with the loop form, seems so powerful i figured there could be a way to do it that I wasn't seeing 18:04:50 thanks for the help guys :) 18:04:53 -!- dekuked [~dekuked@c-71-232-159-108.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:08:03 its a strange experience learning lisp, there are long periods where you learn extremely simple concepts, then you hit one of these high level abstractions like loop, and its like you have to learn a completely different language just for that one thing 18:08:22 really enjoying it, but those differences are pretty jarring 18:08:33 mbriggs: loop is actually algol :) so it is a separate language 18:10:10 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA20151.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:14:04 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.4.241] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 18:18:32 m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.132] has joined #lisp 18:18:57 pavelpenev: it would be, if it used := for assignment 18:19:19 (as in, it would be algol) 18:19:50 Cosman246: you can use := for assignment :) 18:20:34 and some do 18:21:55 i noticed i can't run mrxvt with C-t ! when using options to it like "mrxvt -xft" or mrxvt -xft....it just does nothing 18:22:02 in stumpwm 18:22:30 i had to start an extra xterm and run it .....and close the xterm afterwards.... 18:22:32 bleh 18:26:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:29:31 back 18:29:54 wbooze: no sure, i use urxvt 18:29:57 checking into mrxvt 18:31:19 wbooze: well C-t ! conkeror google.com works 18:31:31 so the parameters get passed to the application 18:31:34 hmmm 18:32:01 maybe i have to escape the - 18:32:04 hmmmmm 18:32:12 was just trying to test 18:32:16 wait you don't escape the .'s too 18:32:19 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:25 well i can do C-t ! urxvt -tint yellow 18:35:30 did not need to escape it 18:35:32 odd 18:36:00 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-192-43.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:53 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-166-21-1-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:58 -!- mbriggs [~user@64.215.160.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:39:48 Hello, has anyone here worked with logical pathnames? 18:39:54 Cosman246: i have a bit. 18:39:59 Hmm 18:40:15 Is there a nice explanation of how to get them to work? 18:40:33 Cosman246: The section in CLtL2 gives a good overview. 18:40:48 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@adsl-76-214-3-94.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 18:40:55 I see 18:41:42 Cosman246: In my limited experience, they are best used to embed a finite number of literal logical pathnames in application source code. Then the translations are responsible for mapping that finite set to physical pathnames on the target deployment system. 18:42:00 wah hah hah 18:42:17 some of the paip code tried to load files that way.... 18:42:19 It seems like when people want to use them for other stuff they get frustrated and mad because logical pathnames aren't good at other things. 18:42:25 rrice [~ralph@adsl-69-208-0-143.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:29 -!- rrice [~ralph@adsl-69-208-0-143.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 18:42:30 and it tried to name things like blah.lisp.fasl etc.... 18:42:49 I don't think they're good for use in a library (though I'm open to persuasion otherwise) 18:43:03 pnq [~nick@ACA26991.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:43:37 and another thing was file-write-date does not work on files which yet don't exist! 18:43:40 eheh 18:44:31 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:39 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc1-sgyl27-2-0-cust785.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:52 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:47:31 lemonodor [~lemonodor@mobile-198-228-211-223.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:49:59 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:50:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:53:02 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:54:54 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:23 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:40 coder` [~user@p54918631.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:58:14 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.242.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:58:33 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@mobile-198-228-211-223.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58:39 lemonodor_ [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:53 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-166-21-1-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:28 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:05:02 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:33 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has joined #lisp 19:06:15 lebro [~monx@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:54 ikki [~ikki@189.195.83.250] has joined #lisp 19:09:26 _sigjuice [3fe94cfe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.233.76.254] has joined #lisp 19:11:46 huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has joined #lisp 19:12:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.9.19] has joined #lisp 19:12:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.9.19] has quit [Changing host] 19:12:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:16:21 -!- jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:27 <_sigjuice> Is there an errata somewhere for Object-Oriented Programming in Common Lisp by Sonya Keene? 19:17:59 <_sigjuice> There is a minor thing on page 41 that I do not understand that I think might be a mistake or a typo 19:18:26 i get with the modifier maps problems in mcclim apps, on kde the same keys AltGr+^ produce a tilde ~, but not in stumpwm....or any other wm 19:18:27 I haven't heard of an errata list 19:18:38 oh man 19:18:44 *Xach* doesn't have his OOPCL handy 19:19:24 +shit-lock+ 1, +caps-lock+ 2, +mode-shift+ 5..... 19:19:37 err, +mode-shift+ 3 sorry 19:19:56 shit lock? 19:19:59 so the problem is not on the WM side ? 19:20:08 +shift-lock+ 19:20:14 <_sigjuice> The last line at the end of the first section of the page says "The semantics of ordered locks require that the owner slot be either a process or nil." 19:20:51 i get iso-level-3 not bound messages in either case, but get the tilde in the kde case and not in the other..... 19:21:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:21:30 <_sigjuice> I think the author meant "simple locks". 19:22:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:23:06 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-146-81.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:24:44 i don't get the tilde in wmaker too, so gnustep and gnome wm's don't provide the same modifier bindings ? 19:24:46 or levels ? 19:24:54 only kde ? 19:25:04 jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has joined #lisp 19:25:36 ~, but hey, i'm now on stumpwm and inside emacs the tilde still works 19:25:44 wtf 19:25:44 homie: Try discussing it in #homie 19:26:52 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:29:00 Guthur [~user@host86-148-164-73.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:31:29 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:33:44 -!- Cosman246 [~user@D-69-91-157-128.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:33:55 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-063-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:46 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: rpg] 19:35:48 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:36:16 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 19:36:53 Aiwass [~user@188.27.116.212] has joined #lisp 19:39:44 centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-144-32.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:46 how can I use cl-launch with a saved image of sbcl. or I can use only images dumped by cl-launch?I want to use common lisp code as a script, but I cannot use quicklisp packages if they are not loaded in a saved image (that's what I read) 19:42:18 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 19:42:36 You can load projects that are part of quicklisp. The easiest way is to load quicklisp first. I don't think it works all that well to load libraries in CL "scripts" and as a result don't think CL "scripts" work all that well most of the time. 19:43:02 I don't know about cl-launch, sorry. When I want to run command-line CL programs, I create them with buildapp. 19:43:49 with sbcl I can use --script option in shebang 19:44:06 That's true. But I don't think it works too well if you have to load other things. 19:44:07 but it doens't work (for me at least) with a loaded image 19:45:22 ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 19:45:38 Aiwass: I think you'd have to replace the default core image, or change SBCL_HOME to point to a different core 19:45:40 so what should I do with different CL scripts, so I can use them like a normal script? 19:45:56 Aiwass: I don't know. I don't think CL is a great fit for shebang-style scripting most of the time. 19:46:36 Most of the implementations are really verbose when loading things or starting up, and my favorite implementation (SBCL) is fairly slow at compiling and/or loading code. 19:47:58 an image with some packages loaded with quicklisp has a short start-up 19:49:43 That could work. I wonder what a sweet-spot of libraries would be. 19:51:31 yes, you should think for a list of general-purpose libraries, so you can use same image with more than one script 19:52:48 and when I want to use sbcl --core --script, in shebang, nothing happends 19:52:57 wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-152-176.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:53:01 I follwed this advice http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9229526/how-to-use-quicklisp-when-cl-program-is-invoked-as-a-shell-script 19:54:47 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:55:54 Aiwass: you can't have more than one argument to a shebang interpreter 20:02:40 yes, it works well making a shell script with sbcl loading image, and in shebang you use the new script with --script option :) 20:03:12 /usr/local/bin/sbclscript! 20:04:16 and it is fast enough, with quick startup 20:05:23 probably the startup is depended by hdd I/O speed 20:05:51 -!- antgreen` [~user@out-on-196.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:41 antgreen` [~user@out-on-196.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:38 -!- Guest10263 is now known as ofan 20:08:53 -!- ofan [~ofan@199.180.254.36] has quit [Changing host] 20:08:53 ofan [~ofan@unaffiliated/ofan] has joined #lisp 20:09:28 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA26991.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:11:45 I don't understand why in eshell, in emacs, the script is running with no problems, but when invoked in in another virtual terminal, it is parsed as a normal shell script (I get parsing errors) 20:12:23 how are you invoking it in the other virtual terminal? 20:13:14 same as in eshell, in current directory, with ./script "par1" "par2" "par3" 20:14:43 eshell what shell is using? 20:17:32 organixpear [HydraIRC@96-42-14-128.dhcp.fdul.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:45 afaik eshell doesn't any external shell, it's a shell implementation in emacs-lisp. 20:18:50 doesn't use* 20:21:01 I see, so bash is not interpreting ok the shebang 20:24:55 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-239-141.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:12 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 20:25:49 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-192-43.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:26:48 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-244-214.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:27:01 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:31:14 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:15 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:39 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:32:39 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-43-154.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:46 Gimbal [~gimbal@mo-76-0-0-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:28 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:36:35 HI folks. I have a sort of 'bluesk'y question, looking for advice in an architectural sense, I guess: How could one use Common Lisp to develop apps for the iTunes store? 20:36:57 I was thinking, maybe if there's a published ABI for Objective C, that could be a part of it? 20:37:42 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 20:37:44 bluesky and long-term - I don't even own a mac right now, but it's my impression that I'd have to own a mac, to be able to follow through on that 20:38:30 Gimbal: http://clozure.com/pipermail/openmcl-devel/2012-March/013433.html You can just use Clozure CL. 20:39:21 skyopomp: Neat! But is the Mac App store quite the same as the iTunes app store, at that? 20:39:23 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 20:39:45 I'm thnking, mobile apps 20:40:45 asvil [~asvil@178.120.160.72] has joined #lisp 20:41:08 Like, hypothetically I'd like to thank that there'd be a development path possible, in using ABCL for Android apps on mobile. I don't know how iOS could be approached, though, considering the iTunes app store TOS that I've heard of - kind of vague ideas, I know.. 20:41:45 Maybe somewhere in between, then, there's be a space for a common CL API for mobile apps. Just dreaming, maybe ;) 20:42:12 Gimbal: if you want to develop for iOS, ECL can run on that. There's also an ongoing effort to port Clozure CL to ARM/iOS/Android 20:42:58 sykopomp: I'll look into it, thx 20:43:00 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-063-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:43:02 is Android JME? 20:43:14 Android is Dalvik 20:43:17 (java micro edition) 20:43:25 no 20:44:03 Looks like there's a possible licensing entanglement ... http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5770020/has-anyone-got-any-code-examples-of-ecl-lisp-for-iphone-development 20:44:12 hrrm.. i thought maybe they'd have a jvm that could run as Dalvik 20:44:13 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:22 Cosman246 [~user@D-69-91-157-128.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 20:44:29 (obviously it'd be slower than dalvik) 20:45:41 I don't know if I totally understand the iTunes app store's TOS in regards to 'donwloaded code' and how it could pertain to the idea of using Common Lisp to develop iOS apps , but maybe that could be a concern too? 20:46:09 -!- Gimbal is now known as gimbal 20:46:13 oh sykopomp: i see gettign from .class to .dex isnt too bad.. a siugle translation 20:47:33 i was able to get ABCL running in .NET without a JVM via a translation 20:47:37 I mean, you can't develop Java apps for iOS, so would the TOS that imposes that limit also impose a limit preventing an app coded in Common Lisp on iOS? But if it compiles to machine code, though... maybe that works around it? 20:47:50 hugoduncan [~user@76.65.142.49] has joined #lisp 20:48:05 though there is a ton of suppoort classes i needed from IKVMs "JRE" 20:48:51 I was able to get a kawascheme program running pretty easily in android. Haven't tried abcl. 20:49:00 -!- hugod [~user@76.65.142.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:49:29 but i suppose gimbal you mean expecial in API a way to say "load from file" and have it hit the SDCARD or internal memory whichever was relivant 20:49:48 or to know for sure the app is working from /sdcard/data/MyApp ? 20:50:25 an API arround hardware implications ? 20:50:55 such as the concept of Screen having multipl or single touches 20:52:14 dlowe: i'll read a howto.. but was it pretty simple as runing some process on a .jar file? 20:53:11 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53:28 next question in gneral to lisp... i am working on a an API to secondlife.. when a secondlife user talks to the robot (ran from lisp).. should i call a function the user is supposed to define? 20:54:09 Aiwass: thx 20:54:11 should i make the user say (add-event-handler 'chat 'my-chat-handler) ? 20:54:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:54:57 or should i just make then (defun chat-handler ...) 20:55:17 dmiles_afk: is it a design question? 20:56:03 if i want them to be able to register multiple chant handlers.. and removbe them.. how should i make them unreigister something.. curtainly noty by symbol name? 20:56:35 gimbal: yto you yes.. what does an android API need to be? 20:56:45 I'm afraid the chan might grumble if I suggested an object-oriented design involving MOP in the gearing.... 20:56:53 as i am trying to solve what a secondlife bot API needs to be ;) 20:56:54 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:26 zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:44 oh instewad of (add-event-handler 'chat 'my-chat-handler) it'd be (add-event-handler 'chat #'my-chat-handler) 20:58:26 dmiles_afk: if you go the defun chat-handler, the use defmethod instead! 20:58:28 but why i am asking even though i have a solution thus far.. what is "normal" ? 20:58:43 dmiles_afk: reg. Andoird API, I'm not sure, but I think it would be posssible to develop - I haven't worked with Android yet, just kind of looking down the road. Motivationally, I'd want to be sure if it's completely possible to develop iOS apps using common Lisp, and those apps be accepted to the iTunes store under their TOS. I have an iPhone to start with... 20:58:45 dmiles_afk: yeah, you just run dex on it. I also ran ProGuard on it as a tree-shaker, and I was able to squeeze hello world into about 28k 20:58:52 serkio [~sgarcia@mail.ageophysics.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:53 (defmethod chat-handler ((cat chat)) ) 20:58:58 not bad for a lisp app :D 20:59:36 dmiles_afk: leave the choice to the caller. I'd use 'handler instead of #'handler to be able to redefine it at run-time! 20:59:43 if oop doesn't result in grumbles ... (defclass my-chat-handler ()) (defmethod do-chat-thing ((my-chat-handler handler) (stream stream)) ? 21:00:53 granted, it doesn't have to be oopish - maybe a functional approach would be more straightforward... 21:01:41 eh pardon my backwards specializer syntax, there - been a while ;) 21:01:56 -!- ksergio [~sgarcia@mail.ageophysics.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:02:01 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:02:12 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-192-43.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:03:31 gimbal: you've been broken by C. 21:03:50 -!- Cosman246 [~user@D-69-91-157-128.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:03:53 nay, 'tis Java, the spectre at my door ;) 21:04:07 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-43.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:04:17 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:04:23 i see yeah the (defmethod chat-handler ...) seems like what is normal 21:05:18 thinking, career and/or entrepeneurship plan 2.0: Java for business, Common Lisp for fun, lol. 21:05:52 oh the params it gets is: yourBotObject senderObject textstring function-to-talkback 21:06:00 wot .. been looking at Java's Liferay, lately - and wondering how one could go about making a bridge between Liferay and ABCL, still kind of just at the whiteboard about it tho 21:06:24 -!- serkio [~sgarcia@mail.ageophysics.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:06:27 -!- jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:40 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:06:41 dmiles_afk: sounds slick! 21:06:51 intertesting though a writeable 'stream' as gimbal says migbht be betyter than function-to-talkback 21:06:52 -!- Aiwass [~user@188.27.116.212] has left #lisp 21:07:32 then the programmer can use that stream to say things over time 21:08:14 dmiles_afk: is it too soon to invoke the spirit of CLIM? Heh ;) 21:08:21 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:46 /cheers whiteboard mojo 21:09:28 imho select an interesting subject/idea, then code... language does not matter 21:09:57 maxm: Honestly Java gives me a bit of a headache to code on, Im' not sure why 21:10:44 to code ^in. I think it's because I'd rather be conding in Common Lisp, but it seems that necessity suggests to me that I should be be coding in Java, or Objective C, something I like enough and that has any "market potential" to it as far a jobs and such ... vague albeit 21:10:46 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.5.223.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:11:03 i wonder how CLIM and ABCL do togtgher 21:11:08 yea java is very verbose.. It all goes in circles, initially .jsp were like a breath of fresh air, and edit/f5/edit/f5 development was good.. Then enterprise/beans/ant appeared, and kind of screwed it up with too much indirection 21:11:39 only now eclipse finally getting back to where we were, while ppl managed to code circles around enterprise java in ruby/python/js 21:11:57 dmiles_afk sounds like a wonderful question. I'd venture that SWT might be one possible medium to code for, at that. I've never been too comfy with CLIM, though, honestly - and I haven't done anything in SWT either, frankly, so I don't know how much I have to compare by, at that. 21:12:36 I mean, I dunno what my hangup is about CLIM, but if there's CLIM in ABCL I wonder if it could use SWT? 21:13:16 SWT can be used by ABCL 21:13:59 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c21d6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:04 I am using WInforms in ABCL today 21:14:50 maxm, my concern is that there's a lot of architecture coded up in Java - OSGi, for example. I don't want to abandon that, but I don't want to use Java to code for that architecture either, I think ;) 21:15:12 I mean, if there's a "workaround" at that, using ABCL 21:16:32 Previously, I was concerned about matters of contrasting degrees of vendor adoption, too, but that doesn't seem to be a concern in using ABCL as a bridge onto Java. I realize that that's not so much a coding concern, though - I'd say it's maybe a concern in the context of market and industry 21:17:00 oh ABCL uses Alegro interface to Java (just because it was a well defined spec) 21:17:15 ah, I see! Yay Franz! >< 21:17:21 but then uses some clojure like syntactical shourtcuts from 'jss 21:17:59 syntactical shortcuts from a package called 'jss (#toString myObject) 21:18:21 *gimbal* nods 21:18:46 Looking up OSGI made me shudder with bad memories 21:18:59 http://logicmoo.dyndns.org/manual/root/abclnet.jpg 21:19:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSGi <- opposite of agile development imho 21:19:48 that linmko was ABCL converted to .net .dll 21:20:40 -!- atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving, leaving, gone...] 21:21:02 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:02 maxm, lol. I guess it's been adopted in the Eclipse IDE , also Eclipse Virgo app server, Apache Felix, and one more ASF sponsored server framework that I can't remember the name of, but it has 'enterprise' tacked under its name. I think I understand something about "runtime plugin activation" in OSGi, haven't really looked into the details though 21:22:20 pspace [~andrew@76.14.88.135] has joined #lisp 21:22:37 -!- BountyX [~andrew@76.14.85.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:24:04 also in Liferay, afaik. Maybe it could be said to be a fish for a JVM bicycle or classloader or something, but it seems to be popular to some extent.... I guess I've just been looking at it 'cos it looks shiny though, lol. 21:27:32 pnq [~nick@ACA2DF74.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:27:37 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:44 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:29:28 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:30:21 does ECL compile lisp files to machine code? 21:31:13 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-167-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:31:24 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:47 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:32:39 Considering the Common Lisp on iOS idea and the Apple iOS Store's TOS constraints, at that, I don't know if the question would be entirely relevant if the lisp image itself works on iOS - like, maybe one could just distribute a CL app as single lisp image. Maybe that would be enough to not get a red light under the Apple TOS? 21:32:50 I think it has 2 modes, bytecode and compile to C, but I never used it. 21:33:00 maxm, cool tx 21:33:09 for iOS CCL is probably best lisp, they ever released hello world type app into app-store 21:33:22 try asking on #ccl 21:33:24 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.23.207] has joined #lisp 21:33:39 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:33:44 maxm, thanks! 21:33:57 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:34:26 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:39:04 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:39:47 -!- antgreen` [~user@out-on-196.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:37 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-141.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:30 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.82.19] has quit [Quit: 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23:40:55 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:45:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:45:12 -!- Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 23:45:58 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:48:04 Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.230] has joined #lisp 23:49:30 Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 23:50:27 Read the backlog, any resources in using ABCL with swing? I have tried to find something concerning ABCL using java and didn0t found something along the lines of an introduction/tutorial 23:51:01 there's none really, it's experimental state, mop is not implemented 100% yet 23:51:14 yet it is running some things..... 23:51:23 same for xcl 23:51:59 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: bye] 23:52:01 actually i ported my .sbclrc packages into an .abclrc and it loads all of em, via quicklisp even.... 23:52:09 I'm asking because while I prefer CL I am doing some perlin noise type of stuff and would like graphic feedback, plus a way to easily share it with others. And without wanting to start a flamewar I have been looking into clojure mainly because of the ease with which I could use swing and java webstart (even if I don't plan to use most of the other stuff). 23:52:25 wbooze: ty. 23:52:54 fsmunoz: quick google found http://openbotlist.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/botclient/botnetclient/lisp/ui/swing/swing_example_lisp.html 23:53:07 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-148-164-73.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:11 one thing i noticed was the intermingled style of calling java from lisp and vice versa..... 23:53:20 they could have seperated it totally..... 23:53:35 Bike: that's the *one* example I do have, thank you! It's the best I could find, wanted to check if there was something more "canonical". 23:53:45 like with a wrapper and then use plain java in some section then end the wrapper and continue with lisp..... 23:53:48 And ABCL supports full MOP as of a few days ago. 23:54:03 oh ok 23:54:59 without sacrificing the intermingled style totally i mean, use it where you must but ...... 23:55:01 nvm 23:55:51 fsmunoz: sorry, I don't use ABCL much at all. But you can call Java methods easily, at least. 23:56:18 Bike: thank you for your help, appreciated. 23:56:26 Yes, jcall and jmethod 23:57:06 Some boilerplate needed, and hardly very lispy in the way it works, but then again I have seen similar in FFI-based solutions. 23:57:37 jep, and i notice i don't like ffi too 23:57:38 lol 23:57:52 About that, and apologies if this is a FAQ... what do people really use for cross-platform GUI development? 23:58:11 I noticed that I always used Lisp for non-graphical stuff 23:58:47 I use web servers and javascript (: 23:59:45 i would like to call say an java app from within lisp, and allow interaction between lisp and java there, say the app is named processing....