00:00:28 Even (let ((v (vector 'a 'b 'c))) (loop for i below 3 do (print (aref v i)))) creates one vector at run-time everytime it's evaluated. 00:00:44 s/from 1 to 3/below 3/ above 00:01:03 <|3b|> mungojelly: i wouldn't worry about memorizing them, just get a general idea how reader macros work, and remember where to look up # in the clhs, and you will learn the important ones as you read more code 00:02:15 yes, i'm not trying to just cram them into my head, but it's rather a lot of syntax no matter how you go about learning it :) 00:02:24 The only one that's not used is #\# #\space. All the others are used and useful. 00:02:39 <|3b|> pjb: even #) ? 00:03:01 doesn't exist. 00:03:07 <|3b|> and #< isn't something that you would generally put in code 00:03:25 <|3b|> pjb: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhv.htm ? 00:03:26 Right #\# #\< and #\# #\space 00:03:29 There are 22 # reader macros. http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_dh.htm 00:03:59 all but 2 are used. So that's 20 syntaxes to learn. 00:05:06 Plus the 7 reader macros. 27 syntaxes. Plus the syntax for numbers and for symbols. Total: Common Lisp has 29 standard syntactic elements readable (31 printable). 00:05:30 <|3b|> plus all the syntax for format strings :) 00:06:01 On the other hand, C++ has 27 priority levels for it operators, so there is at least 27 syntaxes for the different operators in C++. In total, C++ has probably more than the double of syntaxes than CL. 00:06:04 *|3b|* might also count loop keywords as syntax 00:06:15 oh sure, compare to c++, that's fair :p 00:06:16 I don't count the %stuff in printf strings. 00:06:40 mungojelly: and again, it's up to you to use just a subset of lisp. 00:07:00 mungojelly: Common Lisp is designed as the union of the lisps that were used when it was created. 00:07:29 well, at the moment i'm just trying to catch up to what you're doing, rather than make up my own ideas. are there any formally specified subsets? i guess scheme, sorta. 00:07:43 The result is that you can in 2012 run programs written in lisp in 1960: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/wang.html 00:07:55 No, scheme is not a subset of CL. 00:07:59 mungojelly, just looking through any code in quicklisp should be fine to get you the feel. do you have it yet? 00:08:18 http://paste.lisp.org/display/122296 nonwithstanding. 00:08:39 Bike: quicklisp? no i don't believe so what's that? i've been playing with sbcl and gnu common lisp 00:08:56 mungojelly: the links to quicklisp are given in http://cliki.net 00:08:58 ASau [~user@95-28-115-21.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 00:09:17 frx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 00:09:19 I gave you the url to cliki half an hour ago. What have you been doing in that time? 00:09:22 <|3b|> mungojelly: if by "gnu common lisp" you mean gcl, you might want to avoid that... gnu clisp is OK though 00:09:32 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:09:34 mungojelly, http://www.quicklisp.org/ 00:09:35 <|3b|> pjb: presumably trying to keep up with all the responses here? 00:09:42 :-) 00:10:27 -!- Blkt` [~Blkt@82.84.189.92] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:29 pjb: i have that open in my browser, but the tab i've been reading other than here is the source for this ppcre thing! not that i understand it, i'm just skimming it 00:10:54 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:11:04 mungojelly: and furthermore, lisp programs and libraries create additionnal syntaxes for the objects they commonly manipulate. 00:11:49 pjb: yes, i was just thinking that depending on how you think about it most of the computer languages ever invented might be lisp DSLs 00:12:03 For example, I have a program to do some simple accounting and to print invoices, so there's a #m syntax to read devises. In a GUI library that manipulates points, there's a #@(x y) syntax to read points. etc. 00:12:06 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:12:27 Definitely. 00:12:47 And most of them started as lisp DSL, including eg. Smalltallk, Haskell, Javascript, etc. 00:13:46 pnq [~nick@ACA44153.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:27 -!- scrimohsin [~scrimohsi@gateway/tor-sasl/scrimohsin] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:16:27 -!- nounch [~nounch@188-195-2-219-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:24:17 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:24:41 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:34 -!- r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.38.134] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]] 00:31:00 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 00:31:02 -!- cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 00:31:07 vsync- [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:01 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:32:02 cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has 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Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:28:31 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 01:28:44 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:29:09 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:29:18 -!- mck- [8eb36adf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.142.179.106.223] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:29:26 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has joined #lisp 01:31:22 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:32:14 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 01:35:07 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:38:29 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:43:06 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:43 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:46:07 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:47:54 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 01:57:47 lebro [~monx@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:22 flaviori_ [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has joined #lisp 01:59:16 johnarmstrong [~johnarmst@64.228.158.209] has joined #lisp 02:00:21 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:55 wanting to learn lisp which dialect is best? 02:03:23 This is a channel for Common Lisp, so that's the answer you're going to get. 02:08:09 much obliged... 02:13:32 -!- johnarmstrong [~johnarmst@64.228.158.209] has left #lisp 02:14:01 springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has joined #lisp 02:16:14 johnarmstrong [~johnarmst@64.228.158.209] has joined #lisp 02:16:24 still a channel for CL. 02:16:38 i realize that 02:17:11 is there a scheme channel, i'm thinking of jumping ship... 02:17:31 #scheme, conveniently 02:17:38 -!- flaviori_ [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:41 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:19:25 why does common lisp get the entire lisp channel...? don't answer that one... 02:20:14 then don't ask it. 02:20:31 Because it's usually just called "lisp", unlike scheme which is called "scheme". They're quite different languages. 02:24:33 -!- johnarmstrong [~johnarmst@64.228.158.209] has left #lisp 02:25:05 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:26:12 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:17 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:29:27 johnarmstrong: What is your goal with learning lisp? If it involves getting practical work done, I would recommend you stay with CL. 02:31:20 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 02:32:04 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:32:05 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:33:12 xscc [~xscc@221.11.61.207] has joined #lisp 02:36:07 -!- calabiyau [~jgp@adsl-070-148-061-036.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:37:22 mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has joined #lisp 02:38:04 calabiyau [~jgp@adsl-070-148-061-036.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:18 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:05 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 02:41:48 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:42:14 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 02:42:39 -!- xscc [~xscc@221.11.61.207] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 02:43:24 -!- mathslinux is now known as Dunrong 02:43:32 -!- calabiyau [~jgp@adsl-070-148-061-036.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:45:14 calabiyau [~jgp@adsl-070-148-061-036.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:42 -!- alvis```` [~user@tx-184-6-177-129.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:06 gko [~user@42-75-67-40.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:46 -!- kruhft [~user@d50-99-111-248.abhsia.telus.net] has left #lisp 02:55:22 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has joined #lisp 02:58:45 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 02:58:51 -!- springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:59:04 lebro [~monx@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:18 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:00:57 bsamograd [~user@d50-99-111-248.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:57 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:02:09 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-141-39.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:02:25 -!- benny [~user@i577A8A5F.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:02:54 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:03:14 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 03:04:02 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 03:04:24 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:33 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-115-21.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:47 pnq [~nick@AC81CF83.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:04:52 ASau` [~user@95-28-115-21.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 03:06:21 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 03:09:00 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-154-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 03:09:08 Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483AC74.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:12 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:10:33 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483957F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:11:19 -!- bsamograd [~user@d50-99-111-248.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:12:07 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:13:21 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:13:42 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-154-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:18:25 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 03:19:06 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Client Quit] 03:19:23 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 03:20:05 -!- calabiyau [~jgp@adsl-070-148-061-036.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:21:51 calabiyau [~jgp@adsl-070-148-061-036.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:13 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 03:23:46 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:27:56 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:27:57 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-242-169.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:29:00 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:29:47 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-161.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:30:41 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 03:32:52 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:13 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:35:25 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLink@110.141.220.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:36:02 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has 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-!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:58:42 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 03:58:57 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129194149.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:59:11 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:04:07 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:50 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@115.241.51.141] has joined #lisp 04:04:52 johnarmstrong [~johnarmst@64.228.158.209] has joined #lisp 04:05:29 #join #electronicp 04:05:34 -!- johnarmstrong [~johnarmst@64.228.158.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:37 -!- new [~new@kindista.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:05:55 BrianRice [~water@71-217-115-15.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:56 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81CF83.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:07:16 dto [~user@mail.kitchenkettle.com] has joined #lisp 04:07:22 what is this? https://maps.google.com/maps?q=USA&hl=en&ll=35.072717,-99.083633&spn=0.544543,0.610428&sll=36.961414,-95.548096&sspn=0.132912,0.195522&t=k&hnear=United+States&z=11 04:08:03 -!- gko [~user@42-75-67-40.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:13:35 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-166-139.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:15:58 -!- EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:17:58 -!- dto [~user@mail.kitchenkettle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:21 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-226-144.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:22:39 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 04:25:01 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:25:31 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:26:16 froggey 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04:48:28 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:50:09 meiji11 [~user@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:42 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:49 xscc [~xscc@123.52.87.227] has joined #lisp 04:53:59 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:54:15 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 04:56:39 -!- xscc [~xscc@123.52.87.227] has quit [Client Quit] 04:57:15 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 04:58:29 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 05:02:46 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:12:56 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:16:25 benny [~user@i577A7EF1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:16:56 i thought scheme was racket these days. 05:17:54 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:19:12 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.69.61] has joined #lisp 05:21:44 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 05:21:50 well plt scheme became racket, but other implementations are still scheme 05:23:31 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:26:27 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:29:16 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:30:04 -!- leoncamel [~user@219.142.128.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:31:14 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 05:31:16 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 05:31:16 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #lisp 05:35:28 springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has joined #lisp 05:39:40 jdz [~jdz@89.201.97.48] has joined #lisp 05:41:21 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:43:53 mrSpec 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[Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:51:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:52:26 abeaumont [~Alfredo@114.88.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 07:53:16 Good morning all, a quick beginner question on slime if this is the right place for that. I managed to press some 'command hotkey' which turns my main buffer output into editable text, and it doesn't allow me to enter new commands anymore because "Text is read only". I've had this several times, but I have no clue on 1) how I did that and 2) how to fix it without restarting emacs 07:53:40 *output buffer 07:54:15 Does anyone know what I should do? Thanks! 07:54:19 C-h l 07:54:44 press that when the problem occurs, it will show you what keys/commands you did before 07:54:58 C-h l should help 07:55:09 ah, too slow 07:55:27 When I do that now it still informs me that 'text is read only' :) 07:55:39 C-h m 07:56:08 or ESC ESC ESC 07:56:14 maybe you're still in minibuffer? 07:57:19 ah I am getting my command list now, let's try and retrace - thanks 07:57:42 (the C-h l that is) esc-esc-esc does noting to change it issue 07:59:21 hmm I've pressed too many buttons already up to now, but thanks for the help, I'll manage to see what went wrong next time it happens! 07:59:26 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-58-134.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:59:26 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-58-134.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:59:26 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:59:56 StretchedALot [StretchedA@93.89.92.12] has joined #lisp 08:00:13 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:01:30 punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:52 Been there. It can leave you quite confused. 08:02:32 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:02:32 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:02:45 ivan-kan` [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 08:03:30 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.38.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:03:33 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-76-116.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 08:05:26 perhaps I should try emacs, ESC ESC ESC sounds just like vim ;) 08:06:36 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:06:42 -!- Zemyla [~zemyla@ec2-50-19-77-190.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:07:21 leoncamel [~user@219.142.128.137] has joined #lisp 08:08:24 Zemyla [~zemyla@ec2-50-19-77-190.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 08:12:54 -!- sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:13:06 sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has joined #lisp 08:13:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:15:01 Kron__ [~Kron@2.49.82.19] has joined #lisp 08:16:52 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 08:17:57 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.82.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:20:45 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:21:12 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-luxcchkdsjwfdxme] has joined #lisp 08:21:22 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:21:22 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:21:22 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:21:49 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 08:23:41 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 08:29:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.75.36] has joined #lisp 08:29:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.75.36] has quit [Changing host] 08:29:30 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:31:33 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 08:33:08 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host113-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:33:13 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 08:34:34 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:27 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.216.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:36:24 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 08:39:20 Posterdati [~tapioca@host113-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:42:14 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:42:55 -!- quartus_ [5f805f17@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.128.95.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:45:42 turbolent [~bastian@turbolent.com] has joined #lisp 08:47:38 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.70.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:48:36 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:52:50 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:13 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 09:03:13 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:07:14 Guthur [~user@host86-148-164-73.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:10:33 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-87.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:38 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:13:23 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 09:15:14 -!- ivan-kan` [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:16:35 dto: a mosaic composed to hide some moving objects. Since the only entity more powerful than Google is its weaponized arm, the USA, I'd guess those were USA objects. (Yes, Apple may have more money, but they don't have as many lawyers or an army). 09:18:24 [SLB] [~slabua@host244-164-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:18:25 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host244-164-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 09:18:25 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 09:19:33 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 09:24:38 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 09:27:49 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip72-194-213-200.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:30:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:31:53 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 09:46:57 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:48:21 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: gone] 09:50:20 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 09:52:48 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:56:47 I'm not sure about the USA being more powerful than Google. 09:57:14 ..oh, hang on. Offtopic. Sorry. 09:57:31 -!- gko [~user@42-75-170-3.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:01:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:02:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:03:49 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 10:04:07 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:14:01 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.101.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:14:09 rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-149-167-239.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:16:57 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:22:02 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:22:33 bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 10:23:50 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 10:24:03 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:28:07 -!- jelle456 [~chatzilla@cust-95-128-95-23.breedbanddelft.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:28:20 -!- jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:28:24 jasom [~aidenn@ip72-194-213-200.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:59 jiroukaja [~jiroukaja@softbank221094150218.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:52 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:39:52 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 10:40:19 trigen_ [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:34bf:3f5d:2bd6:7949] has joined #lisp 10:40:38 Am I reinventing the wheel? 10:40:46 -!- trigen_ [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:34bf:3f5d:2bd6:7949] has quit [Client Quit] 10:41:13 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 10:41:19 trigen_ [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:34bf:3f5d:2bd6:7949] has joined #lisp 10:43:25 didi: maplist. But apply on arbitrary-length lists is a bad idea. 10:45:37 didi, if you speak of "seqs" it should work with all sequences, not just lists. 10:45:58 oic 10:46:13 didi: (loop for current = list then (nthcdr n current) collect (funcall fun (subseq current 0 n))) 10:46:25 pnq [~nick@AC813FFE.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 10:47:09 Unfortunately with loops you must write two different loops to deal with lists and vectors. 10:47:11 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: bye] 10:47:58 (if (vectorp seq) (loop for i below (length seq) by n collect (funcall fun (subseq current i (+ i n)))) (loop for current = seq then (nthcdr n current) collect (funcall fun (subseq current 0 n)))) 10:49:58 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 10:50:40 -!- springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:51:00 Great! Thank you all. :^) 10:51:04 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has left #lisp 10:54:16 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:54:37 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:55:34 -!- sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:57:14 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:57:27 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:57:49 sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has joined #lisp 10:58:16 dbushenko [~dim@86.57.253.61] has joined #lisp 11:00:23 dto [~user@mail.kitchenkettle.com] has joined #lisp 11:01:07 totem [~rhythmbox@unaffiliated/totem] has joined #lisp 11:02:18 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:02:42 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] 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11:45:26 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:27 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:45:37 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-148-164-73.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:49 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 11:45:54 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:45:58 alama [~jessealam@212.201.44.243] has joined #lisp 11:46:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:46:32 sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 11:46:45 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Quit: le mieux que je peux] 11:47:37 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:49:31 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has left #lisp 11:52:32 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 11:54:35 -!- jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:57:07 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:57:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-31.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:58:02 can anyone tell me how the :inside option of ccl's trace is used? 11:58:10 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:58:37 -!- pnq [~nick@AC813FFE.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:58:42 I don't know. I'd read the manual, and then ask on #ccl. 11:59:16 pjb: the manual? boy, that is a good idea. thank you so much! 12:00:11 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:18 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.135.183] has joined #lisp 12:01:33 quartus [5f805f17@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.128.95.23] has joined #lisp 12:01:44 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:05:26 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:05:36 jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has joined #lisp 12:05:41 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 12:06:03 organixpear [HydraIRC@96-42-14-128.dhcp.fdul.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:06:45 any newLISP users on? 12:07:11 no 12:07:12 Not here. newLISP is old fashioned. The technology of 1960's in 2010's. 12:07:13 organixpear: wrong channel. #lisp is about common lisp 12:07:33 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:08:00 hey everyone, when i create a file using with-open-file in a directory where my app does not have write permissions, the function simply creates the file, instead of warning me about this. subsequently the file exists according to probe-file, but my Windows Explorer does not show it. How can I deal with this? 12:08:01 sorry 12:08:39 quartus: either you have access rights or you don't have. It doesn't sound like a lisp problem but like an OS problem. 12:08:40 quartus: sounds like a bug in your implementation. what is it? 12:08:46 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 12:08:59 organixpear: may we entice you to learn common lisp? have a look at http://cliki.net 12:09:12 H4ns: MS-Windows 12:09:13 quartus: i misread. pjb is righ. 12:09:42 using allegro common lisp, emacs 22.3.1, windows 64-bit 12:09:45 quartus: also, GUI don't always display files immediately after their creation. Try a CLI. 12:09:45 quartus: but i'm wondering what you mean by "app does not have write permission" 12:10:00 quartus: if it can create the file, it has write permission. 12:10:09 i'm not running emacs in admin mode 12:10:11 quartus: besides, allegro cl support is at support@franz.com 12:11:40 pjb: what's a CLI? 12:13:32 ah, command line interface: tried cmd already, does not show file either 12:14:34 h4ns: i'll try franz support 12:17:07 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:19:36 quartus: if you use emacs, try: C-x C-f to open the file. 12:19:38 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21:43 pjb: no problem accessing it through emacs and probe-file on the filename returns a non-nil value 12:22:08 Then your file exists, AFAIK. 12:22:21 The problem is with Windows Explorer. Why are you using it? 12:23:15 pjb: 1) no choice, i use a windows implementation 2) the users of the app i am developing are using MS environment as well 12:24:42 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:54 Perhaps there's a syscall to let Windows Explorer know there's a new file to display? 12:24:58 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:26:05 pjb: you're not suggesting that, or are you? 12:26:15 I don't know anything about MS-Windows. 12:27:02 pjb: if you don't know anything about it, you could as well not give misleading answers. 12:27:08 pjb: just a suggestion. 12:27:24 It was just a suggestion about something to lookup in the manual. 12:27:32 There are similar notifications in MacOSX. 12:27:54 ha, windows having an accurate manual, that's another good one, this conversation is a riot :D 12:28:00 maybe i can get some help with this. I am trying out SBCL and need to use some crytographic functions, so I found "ironclad" but am having issues loading the api 12:28:07 pjb: in windows explorer that is F5 (refresh), does not make a difference 12:28:24 organixpear: for allegro cl support, talk to support@franz.com 12:28:44 organixpear: allegro cl has built-in crypto based on openssl. consult the manual. 12:28:51 organixpear: uh 12:28:55 Perhaps the file is hidden? 12:28:57 quartus: what about scrolling? Isn't the icon hidden outside of the viewport, or behind another icon? Isn't there an API to position the icons? 12:28:57 organixpear: erm. sorry. scratch that. 12:29:25 no, i display hidden files and folders, so it isn't 12:29:38 quartus: you're not looking at the right directory maybe? 12:29:57 when running emacs in admin mode, everything is as expected, showing both in emacs and explorer 12:30:13 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:30:42 quartus: Perhaps it's something to do with pathname defaults? Are you constructing a fully qualified pathname? 12:30:43 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:30:47 (if that's the right term) 12:30:50 teggi [~teggi@113.172.38.202] has joined #lisp 12:31:02 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 12:31:04 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:31:40 organixpear: what are the issues that you have with loading irconclad? 12:31:43 ironclad 12:32:11 essentially I don't know how 12:32:24 organixpear: (ql:quickload :ironclad) 12:33:09 antoska: pathname is ok 12:34:28 quartus: before closing the file in lisp, print (truename ). then copy and paste the output into your explorer address bar to see whether explorer sees the file. then remove the file name and paste that and verify if you cannot see it. 12:37:11 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:40:31 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 12:41:58 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:27 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-qxiekwiuepllybpr] has joined #lisp 12:43:11 H4ns: tried your suggestion, did not change anything 12:43:22 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Client Quit] 12:44:37 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-qxiekwiuepllybpr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:13 quartus: then you'll really need to talk to franz' support. freenode is about free stuff, and allegro cl on windows does not qualify anyway. 12:45:22 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-ryckrdysrhckbtev] has joined #lisp 12:45:46 H4ns: i contacted support as you suggested earlier 12:45:58 quartus: you should have some response tomorrow or so. 12:47:11 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 12:47:14 H4ns: we are using GDL (a.k.a. Gendl) by Genworks, comes with allegro common lisp, but i don't know about support level at Franz. Contacted Genworks first 12:47:25 quartus: also a good idea. 12:48:07 pjb, h4ns, antoska: thanks for your suggestions and help 12:50:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:50:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:52:21 RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-66-77-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:52:32 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 12:56:26 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:58:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.35.137] has joined #lisp 12:58:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.35.137] has quit [Changing host] 12:58:08 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:58:39 http://www.mahdiyusuf.com/post/9947002105/most-pressed-keys-and-programming-syntaxes-2 <- Lisp is at the bottom.. 13:00:41 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.135.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:01:36 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:48 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-87.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:02:13 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 13:03:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:03:52 -!- alama [~jessealam@212.201.44.243] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:04:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:04:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-31.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:05:18 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 13:09:11 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 13:09:14 ZabaQ: it's funny that in Objective-C [] are not more used :-) But selector names are quite long. 13:10:05 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:36 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 13:10:37 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 13:10:37 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:11:35 It's also funny that Lisp is the only language that doesn't have a bright red E key :) 13:12:16 I almost never press ), and i assume others who use paredit don't either 13:12:30 I press ) a lot using paredit 13:12:33 what am I doing wrong? 13:12:45 I use ) a lot with paredit, too. 13:12:54 oh 13:12:59 right 13:13:08 i don't even think about it 13:13:18 strange how i got confused 13:15:26 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:15:42 but still, a more accurate title would be "most often used characters, since autocompletion exists 13:15:55 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:16:01 sykopomp: I was wondering about the 'e' key - wondering whether it's beause the heat map is normalised, or simply something to do with the distribution of functions / names being different. Quite a few lisp functions are abbreviations rather than full words. Or maybe it's the lack of if'/then/else. 13:17:17 I'm surprised that - isn't that hot in lisp 13:17:19 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:17:31 ZabaQ: iirc, it's the most common keypress in English. 13:17:34 foo-bar-function-or-variable-name seems often used 13:17:35 dim: that is because graham's code has been used. 13:17:39 oh 13:18:00 is that just a character count from files, or was actual editing done and counted? (autocompletion?) 13:18:04 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:18:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-31.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:18:07 dim: and graham's code in on lisp is not particularly reflective of much of common lisp code, in particular when it comes to variable naming. 13:18:11 ZabaQ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_frequency 13:18:19 flip214: apparently done from static file, he mentions github as a source 13:18:27 flip214: just read the article in addition looking at the pretty pictures. 13:18:29 H4ns: I see 13:18:54 sykopomp: that's why I'm surprised it isn't hot for Lisp as well. Are we further away from English morphology than other languages? 13:18:58 H4ns: I read it some time ago 13:19:26 ZabaQ: like H4ns mentioned, pg's coding style is... particular. 13:19:38 he like vry shrt vrs 13:19:57 _KDr2_ [~kdr2@123.122.115.71] has joined #lisp 13:19:59 maybe someone wants to regenerate the image with all sources from quicklisp? 13:20:02 sykopomp: Ah, PG. I frgt abt arc. 13:20:14 KDr2 [~KDr2@123.122.115.71] has joined #lisp 13:20:18 http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/paulgraham/onlisp.lisp this seems to be the source used 13:20:51 It's a pretty arbritary measure. Maybe next time he should try the Levenshtein distance between the canonical textbook and War and Peace. 13:20:54 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:21:19 ZabaQ: why not, if it can be used to generate pretty pictures? 13:21:28 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 13:22:27 alama [~jessealam@212.201.44.243] has joined #lisp 13:22:43 well, listing all common lisp symbols gave me "e" as most popular 13:23:01 (from the :cl package, that is) 13:23:23 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:23:46 http://paste.lisp.org/display/130509 in case anyone's interested 13:23:55 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@123.122.115.71] has quit [Client Quit] 13:24:08 E, T, A, -, R, O, I, N ... no surprises 13:24:14 flip214: the question is whether you have to type it often. With autocompletion, it's not obvious. 13:24:16 KDr2 [~KDr2@123.122.115.71] has joined #lisp 13:24:32 pjb: that's why I asked about counting from a file vs. typing. 13:24:37 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:24:44 there are a lot more symbols in CL starting with L than with E. 13:24:54 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@123.122.115.71] has quit [Client Quit] 13:25:32 starting, perhaps; but containing, not. 13:25:46 -!- _KDr2_ [~kdr2@123.122.115.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:56 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:06 I once trained dasher on the sbcl source code 13:27:35 then tried to use it to write some new stuff. It was quite good at getting "(def" right 13:27:52 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:28:06 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.115.71] has joined #lisp 13:28:17 -!- dbushenko [~dim@86.57.253.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:28:38 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.115.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:06 well for autocompletion I find that M-/ runs the command hippie-expand is all I need really :) 13:31:10 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:31:56 ksergio [~sgarcia@mail.ageophysics.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:13 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-242-169.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:21 tsuru``: if you need help with iolib let me know :) 13:32:48 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 13:33:14 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.216.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:33:21 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 13:33:22 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 13:33:22 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:33:52 serkio [~sgarcia@mail.ageophysics.com] has joined #lisp 13:34:43 -!- hga [~hga@adsl-75-42-238-71.dsl.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:35:28 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.242.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:48 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Client Quit] 13:36:24 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-172.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:36:28 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 13:37:06 -!- trigen [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:34bf:3f5d:2bd6:7949] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:37:27 trigen [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:34bf:3f5d:2bd6:7949] has joined #lisp 13:37:37 -!- ksergio [~sgarcia@mail.ageophysics.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:37:58 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:39:35 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-166-139.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:13 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Client Quit] 13:41:31 -!- serkio is now known as ksergio 13:41:41 what do the words that end in -p have in common? 13:42:17 they return a boolean value? 13:42:34 mungojelly: they are predicates http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/26_glo_p.htm#predicate 13:43:43 ok, p for predicate, got it. the style in new languages with just having symbols end in ? is a lot clearer i'd say. but it's nice to learn this history. :) 13:43:58 mungojelly: Also -p is only for multi-word names like some-predicate-p, single word names just end in p like evenp for example. 13:44:30 gendl [~gendl@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:38 oh ok awesome. there's so many little conventions like that i just see words all ending in f or q or z or whatever and i'm like, ok, that will probably make sense soon! 13:45:06 Hi, does anyone know how to call base64:string-to-base64-string on a utf8 string? Using :utf8 as :external-format? 13:45:25 -!- quartus [5f805f17@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.128.95.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:45:26 mungojelly: It will, if you have the patience to learn. Lisp is 50 years old, a lot of history here :) 13:45:36 string-to-base64-string does not seem to accept an :external-format argument... 13:45:45 gendl: convert the string to an octet array first, then use base64:usb8-array... stuff 13:46:09 gendl: (apropos "string-to-octets") 13:46:10 you can convert with babel, or with several other libraries, or with the built-in support of your implementation. 13:46:38 Thank you. I had a hunch babel would help here I just wasn't sure how. 13:46:50 "car" and "cdr" are not exactly very telling... 13:46:54 -!- gf3 [~gf3@oftn/member/gf3] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:47:10 ksergio: no. they're called like that for historical reasons. 13:47:35 Xach: and H4ns: Thanks again. 13:48:12 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-149-167-239.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:49:57 gendl: for what it's worth, it doesn't make much sense to refer to a lisp string as a "utf8 string". utf8 is an encoding, so it refers to the octets so encoded, not to the characters the octets represent. 13:50:17 i think "utf8 string" as shorthand muddies things pretty well 13:50:23 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-166-139.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:50:38 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 13:51:05 ok, i'll avoid that. 13:51:09 Anyway: 13:51:25 (babel:octets-to-string (base64:base64-string-to-usb8-array (base64:usb8-array-to-base64-string (babel:string-to-octets "here are some curly quotes ")))) 13:51:51 seems to give back the original string, curly-quotes intact. 13:52:34 xscc [~xscc@123.149.107.48] has joined #lisp 13:52:59 I just need a robust way to base64 encode arbitrary string data entered into a web form, for Ajax submission to the server. 13:53:03 -!- mindCrime [~prhodes@c-67-162-98-95.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:53:31 nice to wrap that all up in something that takes an :external-format 13:53:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:53:42 gendl: why don't you submit it as utf-8? 13:53:51 mindCrime [~prhodes@c-67-162-98-95.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:07 submit from the web browser as utf-8? 13:54:10 without base64 encoding? 13:54:13 gendl: of course 13:54:43 gendl: supply the right content-type header, done. 13:55:37 I was running into problems with delimiters like '=' showing up in user-entered strings... 13:55:47 I must be doing something fundamentally wrong 13:56:06 with passing the query values through ajax... 13:56:21 gendl: use javascript libraries, rely on common formats like ajax 13:56:31 json i mean 13:56:36 (ajax is not a format) 13:56:36 you mean common formats like json ? 13:56:45 sorry. yes. 13:57:51 -!- xscc [~xscc@123.149.107.48] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:37 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-140.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:00:10 ok. that sounds like the lighter, brighter way to go. 14:00:36 right now i'm in a multi-level base64 jungle. 14:01:05 time for a low-level rewrite (only should affect a few small functions though). 14:02:40 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-ryckrdysrhckbtev] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:38 -!- organixpear [HydraIRC@96-42-14-128.dhcp.fdul.wi.charter.com] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet] 14:03:39 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:06:18 -!- jiroukaja [~jiroukaja@softbank221094150218.bbtec.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:00 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.173.208] has joined #lisp 14:19:08 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:19:37 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.173.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:20:48 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 14:27:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:28:32 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 14:29:02 -!- Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:06 Natch_x [~Natch@178.73.212.230] has joined #lisp 14:29:44 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-166-21-1-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:34:04 dnolen [~user@cpe-69-203-204-197.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:06 asvil [~asvil@178.120.1.24] has joined #lisp 14:37:01 Vutral_ [~ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:13 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:37:13 -!- Vutral_ is now known as Vutral 14:37:16 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:37:16 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 14:37:54 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:37:59 -!- Natch_x is now known as Natch 14:41:31 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:43:44 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:43:57 Hi all. Small question about clx. How can I enable font antialiasing? For example, for stumwpm modeline. 14:47:22 Xach: Are you there? 14:47:48 asvil: Xlib font rendering can't do AA 14:47:58 asvil: You need pango for that 14:48:54 no, you just need XRENDER 14:49:00 -!- cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:49:20 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 14:49:38 there's a render extension implemented in CLX; and you can either use freetype or zpb-ttf to rasterize true-type curves 14:51:38 Kryztof: loke, thanks 14:53:08 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 14:57:47 jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has joined #lisp 14:58:04 -!- benny [~user@i577A7EF1.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:01:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.17.177] has joined #lisp 15:01:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.17.177] has quit [Changing host] 15:01:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:03:31 trigen_ [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:34bf:3f5d:2bd6:7949] has joined #lisp 15:03:39 -!- alama [~jessealam@212.201.44.243] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:05:23 -!- trigen [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:34bf:3f5d:2bd6:7949] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:05:32 or http://cltte.sourceforge.net/ 15:05:46 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 15:07:19 hah, no files 15:15:28 loke: hi 15:18:59 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:19:37 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:21:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-140.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:12 -!- calabiyau [~jgp@adsl-070-148-061-036.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:27:48 calabiyau [~jgp@adsl-070-148-061-036.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:09 hello xach 15:29:07 Xach: I had a question about QL... You have included cl-couchdb, but for some reason, you can't quickload "cl-couchdb-client" which is part of that package 15:29:17 Xach: why is that? 15:32:44 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-039-194.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:34:17 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-17-205-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:28 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:35:03 Probably because it does not build on my system 15:35:06 I'll check to see why 15:36:19 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-16-76.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 15:37:01 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-69-203-204-197.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:37:36 OK 15:37:38 Thanks 15:38:02 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:38:32 defclass-star issue 15:38:42 What is that? 15:38:55 not sure 15:41:18 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:42:39 -!- jelle456 [~chatzilla@cust-95-128-95-23.breedbanddelft.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:54 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:55:05 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 15:56:10 -!- stokachu [~stokachu@50.58.87.197] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 15:56:44 stokachu [~stokachu@50.58.87.197] has joined #lisp 15:57:40 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:57:56 -!- ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:58:11 ivan-kan` [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 15:58:18 -!- ivan-kan` [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Client Quit] 16:02:58 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 16:05:23 -!- Cam [~vorado@trivialand/staff/Cam] has left #lisp 16:11:07 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:13:53 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:13:59 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:50 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:15:06 snearch [~snearch@g225077221.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:15:16 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has joined #lisp 16:17:30 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-232-091.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:18:05 pnq [~nick@ACA20944.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:18:19 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:18:24 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 16:18:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:19:10 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:19:48 -!- ice [~ice@123.114.34.82] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:21:13 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: rpg] 16:21:16 ivan-kan` [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 16:21:43 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:22:00 16:22:01 16:22:01 nil'26 16:22:23 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:15 -!- ivan-kan` [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Client Quit] 16:24:07 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:26:40 -!- EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:28:45 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-117-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:10 -!- vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 16:30:26 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:30:29 EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 16:31:16 ice [~ice@123.114.34.82] has joined #lisp 16:31:56 -!- ice [~ice@123.114.34.82] has quit [Client Quit] 16:32:40 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:32:46 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:32:57 ice [~ice@123.114.34.82] has joined #lisp 16:34:13 [SLB] [~slabua@host244-164-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:34:14 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host244-164-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 16:34:14 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 16:34:54 have you input two empty sentences abov ? 16:34:59 e* 16:35:40 -!- ice [~ice@123.114.34.82] has quit [Client Quit] 16:36:02 ice [~ice@123.114.34.82] has joined #lisp 16:36:48 -!- ice [~ice@123.114.34.82] has quit [Client Quit] 16:37:48 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 16:38:35 ice [~ice@123.114.34.82] has joined #lisp 16:39:17 -!- ice [~ice@123.114.34.82] has quit [Client Quit] 16:40:23 ivan-kan` [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 16:40:26 ice [~ice@123.114.34.82] has joined #lisp 16:40:32 -!- ivan-kan` [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Client Quit] 16:41:25 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:42:21 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:45:30 wow, alexandria has undocumented io functions, and i wouldn't have noticed if i didn't get a name conflict for copy-file when i used alexandria and cl-fad together 16:45:56 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-232-091.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:46:48 i trust documentation waaay too much 16:49:22 -!- ice [~ice@123.114.34.82] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:50:10 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc1-sgyl27-2-0-cust785.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:53:18 Report a bug: alexandria exports undocumented symbols. 16:56:54 *j_king* learning to distrust docs. 16:57:29 unless there's a high integration between source<->docs a la POD in perl-land 16:57:55 reading the source it appears the only function in io.lisp that doesn't have a docstring is copy-file, and the online doc seems to be generated by docstrings, it sees to be just out of date 16:59:06 i just didn't know about the symbols until i read the package.lisp file 16:59:28 m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.117] has joined #lisp 16:59:56 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-166-139.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:12 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:00:57 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@114.88.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [] 17:03:24 -!- leoncamel [~user@219.142.128.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:03:40 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 17:03:53 tests can be good documentation if they're well written and maintained 17:04:10 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:19 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:05:26 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-luxcchkdsjwfdxme] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:07:46 -!- dmizzle_ [~dmizzle@c-76-23-19-120.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:07 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA20944.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:08:40 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-039-194.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:54 coder` [~user@p549189F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:12:05 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 17:16:36 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-039-194.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:17:20 charli_ [~charli@p4FFD291A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:21 charli [~charli@p4FFD291A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:28 -!- charli [~charli@p4FFD291A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:28 -!- charli_ [~charli@p4FFD291A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:31 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:20:14 tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.70.73] has joined #lisp 17:20:42 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:25 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:23:36 -!- tsuru`` is now known as tsuru` 17:24:37 *|3b|* might argue that if the tests are good documentation, they aren't good tests 17:25:13 |3b|: what do you mean? 17:25:39 <|3b|> well, most of what 'good documentation' should cover is normal usage, and most of what tests should cover are strange edge cases 17:25:40 vhost- [~vhost@robodance.kyleterry.com] has joined #lisp 17:25:41 -!- vhost- [~vhost@robodance.kyleterry.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:25:41 vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has joined #lisp 17:25:52 <|3b|> if the tests just cover the normal usage, i'd call that examples :p 17:25:53 eh .. some tests are very readable, especially if they test basic/normal functionality (and excluding this is trouble) 17:26:08 if you _only_ test outliers then you are in for hurt 17:26:35 <|3b|> right, but i'd expect there to be a lot more edge cases than normal cases that need testing 17:27:13 <|3b|> or exceptional cases that should detect errors, etc 17:27:13 -!- snearch [~snearch@g225077221.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:27:31 |3b|: sure .. i think the point is if you organize your tests right they can be informative for people just looking for "how to use" 17:28:02 *|3b|* suspects the people who would go t the effort of organizing the tests to be good documentation, would write good documentation or examples anyway 17:28:10 i would not consider them "good enough" for documentation alone by any means, of course 17:33:06 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:33:48 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@115.241.51.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:34:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:35:15 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:26 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:37:58 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 17:41:10 snearch [~snearch@g225017223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:43:54 -!- hocwp [~user@AAmiens-552-1-85-30.w92-155.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:44:01 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: cya] 17:49:58 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-166-139.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:52:21 Not everyone feels that way wrt tests 17:52:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:53:26 ikki [~ikki@189.139.11.198] has joined #lisp 17:53:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.79.83] has joined #lisp 17:53:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.79.83] has quit [Changing host] 17:53:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:00:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:02:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.171.113] has joined #lisp 18:02:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.171.113] has quit [Changing host] 18:02:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:02:19 dekuked [~dekuked@c-71-232-159-108.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:44 -!- dekuked [~dekuked@c-71-232-159-108.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:03:32 dekuked [~dekuked@c-71-232-159-108.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:44 -!- dekuked [~dekuked@c-71-232-159-108.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:47 dekuked [~dekuked@c-71-232-159-108.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:11:50 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:03 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:14:07 gf3 [~gf3@oftn/member/gf3] has joined #lisp 18:14:09 -!- snearch [~snearch@g225017223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:15:47 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:00 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 18:20:17 lemo1nem [4443286c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.67.40.108] has joined #lisp 18:20:23 there was a big movement in some python circles towards writing tests as "doctests". 18:20:42 That seems to have pretty much been universally acknowledged to be a failure as a way to write tests. 18:20:54 Hi there! 18:20:55 Although, still useful as a way to write executable documentation. 18:21:48 (that is, in order to allow automatically verifying that the documentation actually works as documented) 18:22:30 newbie question: I just came across the (apply #'mapcar #'foo args+) call (e.g.: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3513128/swapping-rows-and-columns-in-common-lisp answer 1) but I cannot find anything in the clhs mentionning this construct [rather than (apply (alexandria:curry #'mapcar #'foo) args+)]... Is this portable? 18:23:04 What construct? 18:23:06 clhs apply 18:23:06 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 18:23:12 It's a simple application of the APPLY function! 18:23:32 yeah but with two function arguments 18:23:36 So what? 18:23:47 Functions are numbers just like any object. 18:23:49 The second function argument is just an argument to mapcar. Apply doesn't care. 18:24:24 (list (function sin) (function cos) (function atan)) here, a function call with THREE function arguments! 18:25:30 huh... nevermind... I got the weird idea that apply was looping in its arguments like mapfoo... 18:25:34 Sorry about that 18:25:45 Like the answer says, it's just a spreadable argument list. 18:25:48 -!- Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:58 yeah, this is a mere computer program, it just does what it's told to do. 18:26:27 Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.230] has joined #lisp 18:26:28 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:28:13 yeah, I see it now (and feels like an idiot too...) 18:28:13 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.38.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29:27 lemo1nem: There's a pretty clear explanation of what's happening on the page you linked to. 18:30:08 pnq [~nick@AC814059.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:31:35 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 18:32:02 bitonic` [~user@host86-133-194-90.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:32:43 -!- bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:33:40 pnq1 [~nick@AC8385E3.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:33:55 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 18:34:27 -!- pnq [~nick@AC814059.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:35:00 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:35:42 -!- pnq1 is now known as pnq 18:38:49 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:41:36 -!- Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:56 Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.230] has joined #lisp 18:47:55 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:47:59 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:06 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.9.128] has joined #lisp 18:51:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.9.128] has quit [Changing host] 18:51:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:55:52 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:56:29 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:58:37 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.23.207] has joined #lisp 18:59:36 BrianRice` [~water@71-217-115-15.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:04 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:00:26 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:01:07 -!- BrianRice [~water@71-217-115-15.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:07 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 19:01:29 -!- Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 19:01:46 Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has joined #lisp 19:05:50 -!- lemo1nem [4443286c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.67.40.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:07:00 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:09:56 tony` [~tony@5ac37acc.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 19:10:03 wakeup [~max@xdsl-78-35-61-27.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:10:06 hi 19:10:28 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:10:32 how do I find out if a symbol specifies a defined type? 19:11:29 I tried (subtypep FOO 't) but it always returns t even if there is no type FOO 19:12:39 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 19:14:36 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.11.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:19:56 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:20:34 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 19:22:16 -!- dekuked [~dekuked@c-71-232-159-108.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:22:31 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:22:58 wakeup: everything is of type T 19:22:58 rpg_ [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:13 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:25:47 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:17 ikki [~ikki@189.139.11.198] has joined #lisp 19:27:09 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:27:22 dekuked [~dekuked@c-71-232-159-108.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:27 jdz: so I figured 19:29:37 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@91-67-216-224-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:30:03 so how do U find out if 'foo i a defined type? 19:30:12 s/U/I 19:33:44 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-2cb4e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:52 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:33:52 wakeup: what about MEMBER? 19:34:56 clhs 4.2.3 19:34:56 Type Specifiers: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/04_bc.htm 19:35:36 SHODAN [~shozan@c-2cb4e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:36:20 I don't think it's possible, from http://clhs.lisp.se/Issues/iss334_w.htm 19:36:36 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@75-52-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 19:36:36 at runtime, at least... 19:38:30 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:39:04 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:42:59 ANewLisper [b89114f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.145.20.241] has joined #lisp 19:43:08 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 19:43:17 Hello everyone! 19:44:21 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:44:29 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:01 What is a Lisp implementation? Is it like a lisp dialect (like common lisp) which is slightly modified or something (something to do with the programmable programming language part of CL)? 19:45:48 Are you not familiar with the concept of implementation from other computer programming? 19:46:25 No sorry I'm fairly new :( 19:46:37 Language is a definition. Implementation is an actual computer program that implements the language's features. 19:46:41 ANewLisper: It is what you get when you take a specification and make actual software. 19:47:10 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:32 -!- dekuked [~dekuked@c-71-232-159-108.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:48:16 Oh so it would include like certain methods and stuff to help me on the tasks I usually need it for ? 19:48:53 Without an implementation all you have is some paper saying what should be. The implementation is what it is, if that makes sense. 19:49:17 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:23 Wait so like without implementation Won't I just have the basic standard common lisp? 19:50:41 ANewLisper, what are you trying to do? 19:50:44 The standard is just a standard. It's not a computer program or programming environment on its own. 19:51:04 -!- ANewLisper [b89114f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.145.20.241] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:51:29 No, without implementation, a language is just abstract specification of what the language does. Implementation is a computer program. 19:51:33 ANewLisper: ANSI Common Lisp is basically a document saying you need your software (aka implementation) to act like this in order to be called "ANSI Common Lisp" 19:51:39 ANewLisper [b89114f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.145.20.241] has joined #lisp 19:51:45 No, without implementation, a language is just abstract specification of what the language does. Implementation is a computer program. 19:51:54 CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:52:20 So it's just a program? 19:52:40 The standard is a document. An implementation is a program. 19:54:07 ANewLisper, what do you need to do? 19:54:11 So when I download common lisp do I need to download any implementations? 19:54:16 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-133-194-90.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:22 the software IS the implementation. 19:54:30 You'll need to pick at least one implementation to use, yes. 19:54:30 what you download IS the implementation. got it? 19:54:38 Oh 19:54:51 Alright 19:54:53 implementations of ANSI CL are sbcl, clisp, etc... 19:55:01 Thank you 19:55:08 There's a list here: http://www.cliki.net/Common%20Lisp%20implementation Many people here use SBCL and/or CCL. 19:55:14 Does it matter which I use? 19:55:18 yes. 19:55:19 bitonic [~user@host86-133-194-90.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:21 You're welcome. 19:55:23 This is what happens when we have languages defined by reference implementation. 19:55:41 ANewLisper: it should not matter if you only use standard features 19:55:59 Any ideas what could be missing if (ql:quickload :clsql-postgresql) says 19:55:59 you'll find that it will matter greatly when you want to do interesting things. 19:56:01 debugger invoked on a ASDF:OPERATION-ERROR in thread 19:56:17 this is lisp, not c. 19:56:20 #: 19:56:20 Error while invoking # on # 19:56:23 it's a very twisty world. 19:56:36 flip214: paste.lisp.org is -----> that way 19:56:38 C implementations matter too... 19:56:50 jdz: oh, come on, for two lines? 19:56:58 arguably. better yet, this is lisp, not algol. 19:56:59 how's that? :D 19:57:01 oh well, ok, it was three... 19:57:28 Oh alright 19:57:51 ANewLisper: think of it this way, both Firefox and Chrome let you access the internet through HTML and HTTP and all, but they're still very different programs. 19:58:14 ANewLisper, you'll discover that experienced lispers are deeply fond of writing their own lisps. 19:58:33 so lispers live in interesting times. 19:58:38 thankfully, the implementation environment of Lisp is less chaotic than that of the web, but it's still worth understanding. 19:58:54 bjorkintosh: so, today you declared that i'm not an experienced lisper... 19:59:05 hahaha. jdz give it time. 19:59:17 do you have a long beard? 19:59:28 nah, quite short 19:59:48 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:00:03 right. you need a unix beard first. otherwise you're just a level-headed professional. 20:00:46 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:47 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:00:47 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 20:01:47 Alright does anyone know any Other good sources to learn common lisp for beginners ( to programming and computer science) ? Something besides Practical Common Lisp, I already have that on my list :) 20:02:13 Ah, have it again ... uffi needs some manual make commands 20:02:20 Oh and for implementations I'll think I'll get CLISP 20:02:28 ANewLisper, touretzky's "common lisp: a gentle introduction to symbolic computation". 20:02:34 ANewLisper: which OS are you on? 20:02:45 it is incredibly good. 20:03:00 ANewLisper: i'd suggest either SBCL or CCL (because of debugging) 20:03:27 ccl? 20:03:39 Windows's 7 20:03:41 ANewLisper: http://www.cliki.net/index isn't a tutorial but it should be a lot of help. 20:04:03 I have an Ubuntu as well 20:04:07 ANewLisper: you could try getting trial editions of one of the commercial lisps, too (Allegro/LispWorks) 20:04:10 ANewLisper, btw, "a gentle introduction to symbolic computation" is a free book. 20:04:29 ANewLisper, install it on ubuntu, and learn to use slime on emacs :) 20:04:50 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-rxmdfeszlfulnvfw] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:04:53 you most definitely will need a text editor to match all those parenthesis. 20:05:12 err. a smart text editor. 20:05:13 ANewLisper: yes, you will get more help with linux here (just don't install anything from the distribution packages) 20:05:16 anewlisper: I like Paul Graham's ANSI common lisp 20:05:48 i say for absolute beginners, touretzky's book before anything else. 20:05:52 even before little lisper. 20:06:10 especially for people who didn't program before 20:06:22 yes. but ANewLisper is not paying any attention whatsoever. 20:08:50 Sorry I'm on my iPod right now so it's hard :( 20:09:00 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-voewmypedfaonesr] has joined #lisp 20:09:04 Hold on I'll be back on a pc 20:09:11 come back when you can pay close attention. 20:09:16 -!- ANewLisper [b89114f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.145.20.241] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:11:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:11:26 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:11:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:12:28 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:25 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:07 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-133-194-90.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:12 ANewLisper [b89114f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.145.20.241] has joined #lisp 20:14:18 alright back 20:14:37 bitonic [~user@host86-133-194-90.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:59 so if I am to use a CL on Windows I should use clisp? and if on Ubuntu? 20:15:36 -!- jdz [~jdz@89.201.97.48] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 20:15:53 oh and I got the pdf for that CL A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation 20:17:22 would this be a good guide to follow? -> http://mohiji.nfshost.com/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-windows/ 20:17:52 ANewLisper, yes! 20:18:07 ANewLisper: there is port of sbcl to win platform. It is enough for studying purposes. 20:18:36 That looks like a good guide, yes. 20:19:25 ANewLisper, if you have access to linux, why not run it on there instead? 20:19:33 so what would you guys recommend me to use CL on Windows or Ubuntu 20:19:40 you'll eventually hear more than enough about emacs. 20:19:58 well I dont use Ubuntu that much that's why but if there is an advantage of using the Ubuntu version then sure 20:19:59 hell, emacs comes with its own lisp called elisp. it's just a little bit different. 20:20:01 You'll probably have an easier time on Linux. 20:20:08 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-172.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:20:31 and I also run into this time problem where switching between OS's (Windows and Ubuntu) my time gets off by like 4 hours 20:20:50 Not too much of everything at the very beginning. Just get your Lisp environment going, Windows or Linux, with that link's info and go slowly with Practical Common Lisp book. 20:21:06 If you choose to use Linux, read this: http://mohiji.nfshost.com/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-linux/ 20:21:08 or Touretzky. 20:21:52 or Touretzky. you'll never regret it. (i still say read this first). 20:21:57 and then on to the others. 20:22:47 yeah i'll probably will read Touretzky's book first 20:22:55 thanks a lot guys! 20:23:12 don't worry. you'll be back if you keep learning lisp. 20:23:29 yeah 20:23:34 if the parenthesis scare you away, then have fun. 20:23:42 oh yes 20:23:50 I looked at lisp code before 20:24:03 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-140.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:24:05 I kinda get the (+ 5 2) kinda thing 20:24:25 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-133-194-90.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:39 but when I saw something like (defunmacro blah blah blah until) 20:24:49 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 20:25:00 bitonic [~user@host86-133-194-90.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:01 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:25:02 macros are advanced deep-magic lisp for now. you'll get there but not immediately. 20:25:03 I got discouraged and thought it would be harder to learn than c++ or something along those lines 20:25:14 ok 20:28:11 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.13.244] has joined #lisp 20:28:27 -!- ANewLisper [b89114f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.145.20.241] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:29:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.11.198] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:29:58 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-76-116.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:31:03 -!- Guthur` [~user@host86-148-164-73.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:18 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8385E3.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:31:20 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 20:32:29 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:57 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:34:08 fsmunoz [~user@bl7-186-130.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:34:48 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: (signal 'dtw:sleep)] 20:37:03 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-76-116.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 20:38:19 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.1.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:38:28 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:42:05 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-243-193-67.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:42:24 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 20:42:35 pnq [~nick@ACA22772.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:44 dekuked [~dekuked@c-75-68-165-28.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:58 -!- ksergio [~sgarcia@mail.ageophysics.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:44:21 ebobby [~fms@38.111.144.18] has joined #lisp 20:45:49 wakeup: your question is ill-formed. AFAIK, an implementation that considers all symbols to be a type are conforming. What you want is a way to determine whether deftype, defstruct or defclass have been called on a symbol. There's no standard way to know. There may be implementation specific ways to do it. There's a conforming way to do it: have a look at ibcl. 20:46:06 http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/ibcl/index.html 20:48:41 interesting 20:49:22 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:49:45 minion: memo for ANewLisper: have a look at http://cliki.net/IRC 20:49:45 Remembered. I'll tell ANewLisper when he/she/it next speaks. 20:49:47 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 20:50:09 im writing a package to extract the api of a package to a meaningful plist instead of directly to html 20:50:27 guess a custom lisp image is a too big dependency for me 20:50:45 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-76-116.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:51:02 wakeup: lisp images are a deployment question: totally irrelevant to anything else. 20:51:37 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.23.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:51:43 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.13.244] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 20:51:56 wakeup: software doing something similar are documentation generator. They use: (documentation symbol 'type) 20:52:26 or (documentation symbol 'class) ; I suppose while defclass defines types, it doesn't necessarily associate type documentation to the class name. 20:54:28 But then, only cmucl and sbcl return non-empty lists for (let ((l (list))) (do-external-symbols (s "CL") (when (documentation s (quote type)) (push s l))) l) 20:55:03 That's the problem with documentation and function-lambda-expression: implementations can forget them. 20:55:16 Hence solutions like IBCL. 20:55:40 -!- tony` [~tony@5ac37acc.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55:45 gabnet [~gabnet@60.195.197.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:53 wakeup_ [~max@xdsl-89-0-148-80.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:57:02 -!- wakeup [~max@xdsl-78-35-61-27.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:57:16 I see 20:59:34 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:41 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 21:01:16 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:03:41 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@91-67-216-224-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:05:46 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-133-194-90.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:12 bitonic [~user@host86-133-194-90.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:10:40 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@60.195.197.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:10:52 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:11:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-140.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:20 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@91-67-216-224-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:18:56 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 21:20:01 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:21:44 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@91-67-216-224-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:27:04 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 21:29:49 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:30:08 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 21:30:18 Aiwass [~user@188.26.200.248] has joined #lisp 21:31:05 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 21:32:20 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:21 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:32:21 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 21:33:50 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@2.49.82.19] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 21:35:16 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 21:36:20 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:36:58 I am in course of learning common lisp. I have (defun ma-get-text (par1 par2 par3) 21:36:58 (let ((data (drakma:http-request "url" :parameters '(("par1" .par1)("par2" . par2)("par3" . par3)) ))) 21:36:58 data)) . I get "The variable PAR1 is defined but never used.". that for all parameters. how can i use parameters values? 21:37:09 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@75-52-11.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:38:56 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:08 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:40:58 Aiwass: don't put them in a quoted list. 21:41:10 Aiwass: you could use (list (cons "par1" par1) ...) 21:42:00 I was testing in repl only with constant values 21:42:22 I'll make the changes, thank you 21:43:16 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:44:22 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:23 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:44:23 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 21:44:51 yakov [~yakov@176.14.143.10] has joined #lisp 21:47:59 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 21:49:20 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:51:08 cl-selenium seems to be broken 21:51:37 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-17-205-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:52:53 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 21:54:05 -!- Aiwass [~user@188.26.200.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:55 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.242.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:55:55 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.242.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 21:56:34 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:58:07 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:59:12 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:31 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-151-246.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:08 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:11 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:28 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has joined #lisp 22:07:34 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:09:54 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:10:25 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:12:28 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:14:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:14:23 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 22:14:24 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:14:36 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:16:10 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:17:06 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:18:43 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:19:13 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA22772.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:19:15 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:32 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has joined #lisp 22:20:29 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 22:20:53 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:24:51 saage [~saage@200.195.179.34] has joined #lisp 22:24:52 -!- saage [~saage@200.195.179.34] has quit [Changing host] 22:24:52 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 22:28:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:34 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:30:53 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:33:42 *maxm* came up with really crazy reader/macro idea.. Was trying to think on how to generalize my qt dotted syntax hack 22:33:55 and seeing people here play with package renaming etc 22:34:35 yakov: i had recently issues with cl-selenium, because of drakma 22:34:44 yeah! 22:34:50 some char conversion madness 22:34:57 coder`, thx for tip! 22:35:01 yakov: fix when redirect is called in drakma, you need to add :preserve-uri t 22:35:11 as i know that drakma as of Aug11 would help :-) 22:35:34 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-117-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:36:05 what if you do a "intercept all characters" reader, similar to what pasted on c.l.l thread.. But you go farther, and you read stuff, by calling original read function, and then re-interning symbols into new package TEMP, while remembering pointer to original "native" symbol, and also making the TEMP: both a symbol macro, and global macro 22:36:55 so basically (a (b c)) is read as (temp:a (temp:b temp:c)), with info retained as to what they would be normally 22:37:22 yakov: i use quickload, is there a possibility to specify earlier versions of specific libraries 22:37:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-198.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:37:37 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:37:52 coder`, dunno :-( 22:38:03 i use quicklisp also 22:38:06 just not that deep ATM 22:38:10 Guthur [~user@host86-148-164-73.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:33 (melt last year project and some things are broken now due to dependencies changes) 22:38:58 the macro function and symbol macro functions for these temp symbols, would by default simply return "what normal read would return", ie (macroexpand-1 '(temp:a (temp:b ...))) will return (a (temp:b ...)).. But thing is, we can call a generic function doing macroexpansion, passing it the original symbol... 22:39:03 wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:27 yakov me neither i even mixed up the name with the function 22:39:44 and this allows that generic function to only process stuff that is a function/macro call to the compiler.. 22:41:36 unlike regular reader-macro, or (with-whatever ...) macro that simply walks its arguments and dumbly substitutes everything that looks like a call 22:42:29 I have a directory of pdfs, "/home/pav/pdfs/" one of them contains [ in it, so when I list the contents of the pdfs directory cl-fad escapes the [ character with \\ in the pathname(something to do with wildcard patterns), all fine, but now I have to pass the filename to pdfinfo using inferior-shell:run, and i pass it (format nil "pdfinfo ~A" pathname), and it barfs because there is no file names "/home/pav/pdfs/example 22:42:29 \\[something].pdf 22:43:08 abeaumont [~Alfredo@132.148.23.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:46:25 -!- p_l|backup is now known as for 22:46:33 -!- for is now known as p_l|backup 22:48:22 I can think of two workarounds: 1) rename the file, 2) disect the pathname and assemble a string manually. But I'd rather not handle special cases if i'm missing something simple. 22:52:29 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129054163.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 22:54:07 pavelpenev: what implementation? 22:54:30 sbcl on linux 22:55:52 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 22:56:01 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-166-139.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:11 try sb-ext:native-namestring 22:56:32 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc1-sgyl27-2-0-cust785.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:42 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-148-164-73.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:00 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 22:58:09 ok, that seems to produce the result i need. Thank you. 22:58:19 yw, good night. 22:58:32 is there any portable solution? 22:58:41 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:58:42 just for my information 22:59:16 look at ql-impl-util:native-namestring. i've not done that myself, maybe it is something else. 22:59:21 *H4ns* needs to go 22:59:34 ok, thanks 23:00:14 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:00:18 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 23:02:51 pavelpenev: use iolib 23:05:56 Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 23:06:28 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:06:56 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:07:18 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 23:07:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:09:00 fe[nl]ix: what am i supposed to be looking for in iolib? 23:09:19 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:09:42 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:09:55 Edin [~Edin@bas1-brampton37-2925339830.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:10:07 mon_key` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 23:10:23 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-166-21-1-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:10:27 hi could someone help me with a java based error im getting? 23:10:34 ASau` [~user@95-28-115-21.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 23:10:43 Edin: Are you running abcl? 23:10:45 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-166-21-1-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:48 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-144-35.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:02 im running eclipse juno 23:11:08 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:11:11 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-144-35.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:11:29 -!- punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: punee] 23:11:48 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:11:48 -!- jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:11:48 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:11:49 -!- p_l|backup [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-kfcxvqlxgiawhgxh] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:12:12 duran_blu [~gm@pool-71-161-51-67.clppva.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:20 -!- Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:12:21 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@99-71-111-56.lightspeed.whtnil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:12:21 -!- ameoba [~sean@c-24-22-33-249.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:12:21 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:12:34 p_l|backup [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-ycoamsibnvslifka] has joined #lisp 23:12:36 -!- mon_key` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:12:54 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:58 mon_key` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 23:13:06 smithzv [~smithzv@99-71-111-56.lightspeed.whtnil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:13 Could someone explain to me how to use libraries that quicklisp has access to? Like, I know how to load libraries using (ql:quickload "..."), but once I've installed a library, how the heck do I use it? 23:13:23 ameoba [~sean@c-24-22-33-249.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:39 duran_blu: go read http://cliki.net/IRC first. 23:13:43 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-115-21.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:45 kk 23:14:05 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 23:14:19 Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 23:14:22 __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:24 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1279646773.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:14:28 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:14:41 So you saying that I'm in the wrong channel? (Sorry, I'm pretty new the irc.) 23:14:51 no you're not. 23:14:52 (new to irc, I mean) 23:15:03 How you'd use a lisp library depends on it. In general, the library defines a package export symbols from it. So you can use those symbols as any other symbol, either by qualifying it: package:symbol or by first using the package in your package, or importing the symbol in your package. 23:15:09 this is the all things lisp channel. 23:15:16 I'm saying that you should not leave the channel after 2 minute!!! 23:15:16 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-166-21-1-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:15:19 could someone help me in a java related error? 23:15:21 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15:26 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 23:15:27 no Edin. 23:16:28 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 23:16:39 duran_blu: elisp and CL are different programming languages. If you have an elisp program, then you will have to _port_ it to CL, you won't be able to compile it directly. 23:16:45 Yeah, I saw that whole newbie thing about leaving the channel immediately after asking, which is really silly because how're you supposed to answer a question with nobody listening in for an answer. 23:16:53 duran_blu: you can check Hemlock, it has an emacs package that provides a few emacs lisp functions. 23:16:54 jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has joined #lisp 23:17:07 -!- Edin [~Edin@bas1-brampton37-2925339830.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 23:17:30 duran_blu: you've connected and disconnected several times very quickly in the last couple of days. It's the first time I have the occasion to answer to your multiple questions. 23:18:08 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 23:19:14 You asked a question about Elisp and compiling sawfish in CL in #lispcafe 13 hours ago, and disconnected less than 15 minutes without waiting for an answer. 23:19:34 And another I don't have anymore in my buffers. 23:20:34 We're not necessarily in the same time zone. 23:20:38 kk, what do you mean by "anymore in my buffers"? 23:20:59 I use erc as irc client, and erc trims the scrollback. 23:21:06 ooooh 23:21:15 kk 23:21:36 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:21:41 so, yeah. I wanted to know about whether compiling sawfish using CL was possible because I'm not a huge fine of Emacs Lisp. 23:21:45 Or derivites thereof. 23:21:55 I really only go in for Clisp. 23:21:59 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 23:22:06 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1279646773.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 23:22:07 duran_blu: sawfish is written in librep, not elisp, right? 23:22:14 I've installed all of the other lisps, just so that I can play around with them when I feel like it. 23:23:20 I mean, CL instead of librep. (librep is a combination of scheme and elisp, right?) 23:24:33 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:42 Come to think of it, though, I've decided to avoid both Sawfish and Stumpwm because of their lispy nature. (Not that I hate lisp, in fact, I love CL.) 23:24:53 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 23:24:55 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-135-88.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 23:25:23 It's just that I don't want to spend all of my time configuring a window manager, because I get grumpy if I spend too much time on my comp. 23:25:40 when I spend too much time on my comp, I mean. 23:25:48 that said, it's all lisp, so it is rather easy to write an implementation of whatever lispy languuage it's written in, in Common Lisp. 23:26:14 And there are already things like pseudo-scheme or the emacs package in Hemlock. 23:26:21 kk, so if I really wanted to compile Sawfish in CL instead of LR (librep) then you're saying it would be possible? 23:26:28 kk 23:26:31 pjb: you'd also need gtk bindings 23:26:38 With enough work, everything's possible. 23:26:47 rep-gtk is entirely written in C specifically for librep 23:27:04 (lol, yeah that's the nice thing about computers. I know that just about anything can be done with enouogh work and effort.) 23:27:07 and it's gtk-1 not gtk-2 23:27:31 duran_blu: try ratpoison. 23:27:55 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:28:07 but back to my question for right now. I wanted to do some CL programming using ncurses, because I love ncurses and curses programs and I want to make some of my own, but I don't like programming in C all that much. I'd much rather program in CL or the Unix Shell or some other scripting language. 23:28:30 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 23:28:34 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@159-28-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 23:29:07 So you're using cl-ncurses. 23:29:16 yaeh 23:29:18 yeah* 23:29:44 I typed (ql:system-apropos "ncurses") in clisp and quicklisp returned the cl-ncurses library. 23:29:58 but I don't know how to take advantage of ncurses in a lispy environment. 23:30:08 Have you checked the documentation? 23:30:10 duran_blu: find the documentation for cl-ncurses and read it 23:30:33 for ncurses you mean? I've searched google several times for cl-ncurses documentation, but none of what I found actually said how to use it. 23:30:35 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:31:01 actually, cl-ncurses doesn't have docs, does it. As I remember it's a pretty straight layer over ncurses. 23:31:21 yeah, I don't think that it has docs, but how do I use it in CL? 23:32:12 hang on, I'm gonna exit out of weechat and reopen it in another terminal. Brb. 23:32:15 -!- duran_blu [~gm@pool-71-161-51-67.clppva.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 23:32:31 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-166-139.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:33:09 Axiom [42eb2f73@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.235.47.115] has joined #lisp 23:33:14 huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has joined #lisp 23:33:14 hello 23:33:36 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:33:56 duran_blu [~gm@pool-71-161-51-67.clppva.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:59 back 23:34:06 The function names map directly to C. E.g., you use (cl-ncurses:addch (char-code #\a)) and it's equivalent to addch('a') in C. Kind of inconvenient. 23:34:25 kk, gimme a sec to try that 23:34:33 Ah, I don't think it works interactively. 23:34:50 I have a question about domain specific languages 23:34:51 but if it doesn't work at all it'll throw me into the REPL debug stuff. 23:35:03 Go ahead, then. 23:35:04 are there people present who have made DSLs in lisp? 23:35:08 it threw me. 23:35:16 DSLs? 23:35:18 what the heck are they? 23:35:23 domain specific language 23:35:28 oh... and that is? 23:35:37 duran_blu, what was the error? Use paste.lisp.org if it's long. 23:35:46 I'm here to learn, not teach. 23:35:53 Just ask, Axio. 23:35:54 m 23:36:01 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:36:23 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-166-139.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:29 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:36:53 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 23:37:02 Axiom: even if nobody active right now has made a DSL (which I doubt) there are definitely people idling here that will notice later and answer any questions you have 23:37:27 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:37:55 Well suppose I want to make a DSL which defines a set of registers. Very similar to Register Definition Language, but s-expressions. Something like (registers (start-byte 0) (length-bytes 167) (reg (at-byte 0) (length-bits 8) (bit (at-bit 0) (symbol 'Standy-mode)) (bit (at-bit 1) (symbol ('POR-detect')) (access read-only))))) 23:38:23 and then write one program which handles assigning to the registers: 23:38:54 (commit (write 'Standy-mode 0) (write 'Clock-divider (divider 1))) 23:39:13 and maybe a different program in a different project would generate some vhdl from the same s-expression for the register map 23:39:17 Does that make sense so far? 23:39:18 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:40 yep 23:40:39 Is what I do essentially write a driver program which first evals the interpretation of the register DSL, that is evals an input file with defmacro's in it, and then that driver program determines what the DSL "means"? 23:41:33 and then evals the imperative part of the program (commit ... write... ) 23:41:39 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:59 or evals a VHDL generator, after evaling a file with the defmacros that define the register bit language as a VHDL generator 23:41:59 Axiom: well, what you've described so far doesn't need any eval 23:42:01 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 23:43:19 you can just have macros/functions which construct relevant data structures 23:43:20 by "handles assigning" I mean I want it to generate either C or asm, so essentially I have two code-generation problems. one generates, e.g., VHDL from a description of the hardware, the other generates, e.g. C from the same description of the hardware and a program which uses symbols e.g. 'reset to refer to the hardware description 23:43:37 ok one set of macros to make an in-memory data structure from the s expression 23:43:48 then refer to that s-expression when generating vhdl 23:44:24 ...refer to that data structure... 23:44:24 w 23:44:24 hich 23:44:25 23:44:25 (sorry) 23:44:28 and similarly have the (commit write ...) language by defined into making its own data structure, based on the register map data structure, and then generate c code from the data produced by the (commit write...) language 23:44:28 And that data structure may well be in part (or in whole) the original s-expression, too, if that's sufficient. 23:44:30 that makes sense 23:45:00 yeah, the nice thing about using s-expressions is that the parsing stage becomes a single call to (read) 23:45:14 what you do once you have the parse-tree is the interesting part 23:45:27 well that seems like a logical way to do this... 23:45:56 ok thanks for the design 23:46:09 I haven't used lisp in years, but this seems like a good time to break out the DSLs 23:46:45 the thing to remember is that the DSL thing isn't inherently about code generation - it's about that you can define your operators (functions or macros) such that their user writes in terms of the domain. Whether you generate code or data structures or code-in-some-other-language is an implementation detail. 23:46:50 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 23:46:50 Of course you do need to think about implementation details, but you should use an implementation that suits your purposes, not a WOO EVAL AND MACROS implementation. 23:48:05 lol ok thanks 23:48:07 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-166-139.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:48:09 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:48:23 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 23:49:10 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:02 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:50:13 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 23:50:23 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:05 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Client Quit] 23:52:18 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 23:53:07 -!- fsmunoz [~user@bl7-186-130.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:55:22 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-133-194-90.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:55:43 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:56:34 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has quit [Client Quit] 23:57:01 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:57:11 rbarraud [~rbarraud@2402:6000:203:300:212:f0ff:febb:b84d] has joined #lisp 23:57:59 ozialien [~ernest@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp