00:02:46 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 00:04:39 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:06:09 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 00:11:31 bhyde_ [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:23 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:23 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:13:23 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 00:14:26 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:14:26 -!- bhyde_ is now known as bhyde 00:19:53 How do Allegro and SBCL compare in performance? Are there any benchmarks around? 00:21:51 I haven't seen any lately. 00:22:22 My superficial impression is that Allegro is close but not as good as SBCL at generated code, but the compiler is much faster. Like CCL-fast. 00:22:54 ok, thanks. 00:24:43 -!- harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:31:06 Also, that probably depends on the kind of code, and on the target. 00:31:31 chu [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:31:31 -!- chu [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 00:31:31 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 00:32:25 gz: Allegro's performance envelope is different. They seem to work hard on extracting good performance from old-school code. 00:36:57 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 00:45:21 pkhuong: Can you give an example? 00:45:59 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.244.103] has joined #lisp 00:46:53 pjb: yes, I'm sure that's the case, I'm looking for any information, like which one is better at what. 00:51:09 their dynamic binding strategy is really neat, even with threads. ISTR they treat stuff like fixnum declarations the way people intuitively expect it to. They also give good attention to making sure stuff is stack-allocatable, and complain about it otherwise. 00:52:55 Oh yeah, and I think their non-simple array code sucks a lot less that SBCL's. 00:54:11 Interesting, thanks. Are the two comparable on simple array code (assuming sufficient declarations)? 00:54:24 Their type-generic code is also nicely optimised by exploiting alignment checking (via the AC flag on x86s). No need for explicit lowtag checks when the machine can do it for you... It does restrict the number of quickly-checkable lowtags they can use though. 00:55:19 Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.235] has joined #lisp 00:56:13 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:56:13 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:56:52 I don't know. On heavy fp/simple-array/struct code, I think SBCL still emits better code. Performance in SBCL is often contingent in the compiler being able to prove it's safe to use unboxed machine types. I expect ACL degrades better. 00:58:19 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Client Quit] 00:58:42 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:59:01 Anyone know why the evaluationg following in the *inferior-lisp* buffer pops up a minibuffer with Emacs 23.3.1: 00:59:02 (funcall #'(lambda () (format *query-io* "password: " ) (force-output *query-io*)(read-line *query-io*))) 00:59:44 mon_key: that's how SLIME sets it up. 01:02:12 pkhuong: wonder why. esp as itt doesn't happen when evaluating outside of *inferior-lisp* 01:05:05 This might actually be a good decision on Olin Shivers's part. 01:06:14 Yup, I think that's how all of comint modes work. 01:06:26 I don't disagree, it just isn't at all intuitive who/what/where the magic is coming from. 01:06:37 from comint. 01:06:45 so this s sa comint thing not a SLIME thing. 01:06:56 s sa/is a 01:07:28 comint-watch-for-password-prompt 01:07:50 via comint-output-filter-functions 01:16:33 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:19:05 ku1 [~ku1@75-107-225-229.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:57 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:20:58 bhyde_ [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:23 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:54 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:22:44 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:22:58 -!- bhyde_ is now known as bhyde 01:24:33 -!- carlo_au [~carlo@ppp118-208-15-87.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:26:51 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-jtbbpejwqyicvyfq] has joined #lisp 01:27:19 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-154-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:29:43 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-168-104.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:33:39 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:56 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:34:16 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:59 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:36:05 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:37:25 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:40:55 springz [~springz@118-163-74-175.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:21 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:31 xaxisx [~xaxisx@184.175.54.34] has joined #lisp 01:43:00 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:43:13 oh, ACL *doesn't* use the same alignment check on x86s. 01:43:37 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-86-136.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:43:49 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-139-231.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:44:08 hocwp` [~user@AAmiens-552-1-92-96.w92-155.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:44:34 -!- hocwp [~user@AAmiens-552-1-6-122.w92-147.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:45:52 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 01:45:53 ignas__ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 01:46:10 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 01:47:30 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:47:30 jcowan [~John@p-67-158-180-195.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:01 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:10 Can someone explain to me the idiomatic uses of `position` and `mismatch`? I know what they do from the CLHS, but not how people use them. 01:50:58 jcowan: I use POSITION to find the index of a key (useful when using SOA-style data structures, or in search trees), and instead of FIND when the key might be NIL. 01:51:33 What do you mean by SOA? 01:51:40 struct of array. 01:52:03 What's a practical example of that? I'm not familiar with the idea. 01:52:34 tranposes containers of products to have products of containers. DB people call those column stores. 01:53:26 Ah yes. 01:54:19 I sometimes use mismatch to compare prefixes, instead of subseq/equal or some other alternative. 01:54:39 Berkeley Smalltalk used that approach to represent objects of a given class. It makes GC a bit tricky, though. 01:55:49 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-51-105.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:13 I guess that makes sense, once you've chosen to go with an object table. Fast #become, unboxed slots, potentially atrocious locality on pointer hopping code. 01:57:31 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-28-241.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:57:35 Yes. I think locality didn't matter much then though: Berkeley ST ran in real memory 01:59:14 jcowan: idiomatic use of POSITION: (defun ascii-code (ch) (let ((code (position ch *ascii-characters*))) (if code (+ sp code) (error 'encoding-error :character ch :coding-system :us-ascii :message "This character cannot be encoded in ASCII")))) 02:00:12 jcowan: idiomatic use of MISMATCH: (defun prefixp (prefix string &key (start 0) (end nil) (test (function char=))) (let ((mis (mismatch prefix string :start2 start :end2 end :test test))) (or (null mis) (<= (length prefix) mis)))) 02:00:55 Deciphered the first ... 02:02:02 -!- hugoxrosa [~user@189-24-148-149.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:20 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:03:36 jcowan: just get the sources of my libraries! 02:03:49 https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master 02:04:29 ... Deciphered the second. Sorry, I was dragged away. 02:05:46 Thanks. 02:05:58 (position 3 '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8)) --> 2 02:06:41 (position "John" '(("Mary" "Stuard" :female) ("John" "Doe" :male)) :key (function first) :test (function string-equal)) --> 1 02:07:22 You can also use position or find instead of member. 02:07:52 member returns the remaining list or nil, position the index or nil, find the object or nil. 02:07:58 I note that there is nothing like `search` or `mismatch` in SRFI 1, which surprised me. 02:08:06 position and find work on sequences, member only on lists. 02:08:10 *jcowan* nods. 02:09:28 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:10:27 Thanks. 02:10:33 -!- jcowan [~John@p-67-158-180-195.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has left #lisp 02:15:54 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 02:15:54 I don't know about search. It's convenient, but a solid implementation is an enterprise onto itself. 02:17:03 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993] has joined #lisp 02:17:03 jcowan thanked and left meanwhile 02:17:24 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:18:12 There is the gallery to consider. :) 02:19:55 that's the thing about pinging out 02:27:57 jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 02:28:12 -!- jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has left #lisp 02:37:46 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:38:05 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 02:40:51 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.244.103] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 02:43:07 meiji11 [~user@96.51.60.120] has joined #lisp 02:46:56 -!- ignas__ is now known as ignas 02:48:25 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.200] has joined #lisp 02:48:47 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:51:32 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:57:20 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:01:09 lifeng [~lifeng@bb121-7-108-184.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 03:08:44 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A524.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:12 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839843.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:12:06 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:16:50 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16:53 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:21 -!- specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:18:16 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:05 UFO686 [~zhangyh@114.96.149.35] has joined #lisp 03:24:39 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 03:26:19 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.200] has joined #lisp 03:28:05 Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:13 -!- specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:31:13 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:31:22 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:26 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:31 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:34:40 ChibaPet: It cl-markdown was generating a lot of lambdas at run-time and that was making sbcl lose to it in a big-way; I switched to 3bmd and sbcl is fast now 03:37:28 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2DBC6.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:37:48 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:37:49 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:41:35 mhr___ [60fd6497@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.253.100.151] has joined #lisp 03:42:38 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:42:50 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 03:44:09 scode [~scode@pollux.scode.org] has joined #lisp 03:45:08 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.82.19] has joined #lisp 03:46:13 -!- UFO686 [~zhangyh@114.96.149.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:50:38 -!- mhr___ [60fd6497@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.253.100.151] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:51:11 jasom: generating as in EVAL/COMPILEing? That's the kind of thing I'd try and get done before saving a core. 03:56:04 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:00:51 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:02:03 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 04:02:41 pkhuong: It's not my code, I found an alternative library that doesn't do that, so I'm not digging deeper 04:04:31 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-43-250.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:42 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-51-105.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:06:49 pkhuong: and it's whatever would cause "1525 lambdas converted" to be printed as part of the (time) summary in sbcl; I'm guessing it does it for caching or something, since subsequent calls don't do that (which is why it was so fast in swank) 04:09:49 I might be able to get it to not do it by parsing a dummy expression, but I've got something that works, so *shrug* 04:14:37 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:14:53 pnq [~nick@ACA20335.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:15:14 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 04:17:30 nalssi [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 04:19:14 apparently just calling (markdown:markdown "foo") at compile time reduces my run-time by 75% 04:19:49 er not compile-time but rather after loading and before saving a core 04:22:54 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:23:50 Trystam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 04:25:56 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:27:24 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 04:28:10 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:33 am0c_ [~am0c@203.246.179.173] has joined #lisp 04:32:36 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@184.175.54.34] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 04:34:08 jaly [~user@218.75.69.131] has joined #lisp 04:35:41 paste.lisp.org is down. 04:37:15 xaxisx [~xaxisx@184.175.54.34] has joined #lisp 04:37:42 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@184.175.54.34] has quit [Client Quit] 04:38:24 xaxisx [~xaxisx@184.175.54.34] has joined #lisp 04:46:45 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:50:47 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:52:28 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:53:36 lisporu [~chatzilla@124.123.173.211] has joined #lisp 04:53:40 xscc [~xscc@123.149.107.48] has joined #lisp 04:54:02 -!- xscc [~xscc@123.149.107.48] has quit [Client Quit] 04:56:48 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:59:51 -!- nalssi [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:58 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:18 H4ns pasted "bla" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/130411 05:03:28 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA20335.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:04:28 i'm not positive that this will last long. 05:04:37 -!- prince_jammys [~mischa@pool-68-237-95-92.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:06:45 prince_jammys [~mischa@pool-71-249-54-85.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:18 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-9-108.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 05:08:38 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:09:17 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:10:26 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 05:10:58 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:20 -!- meiji11 [~user@96.51.60.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12:08 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD75C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:44 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined 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seconds] 07:41:52 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:43:37 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:44:30 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-18.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:46:34 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 07:46:45 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:49:50 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 07:51:39 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-irszbrwcrkjtnixb] has joined #lisp 07:59:49 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:14 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 08:00:34 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-irszbrwcrkjtnixb] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:03:57 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 08:03:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-18.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:06:57 Is librep any good? 08:07:09 Never tried it. 08:07:16 There's libecl so why bother? 08:08:15 #scheme might have an opinion. 08:10:48 -!- a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:11 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 08:18:17 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:19:42 punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:37 a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:49 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-opzyeyzsrlwdbvee] has joined #lisp 08:26:31 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:28:04 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 08:30:34 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:31:27 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 08:32:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:36:03 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:36:09 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:37:28 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:38:31 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@203.246.179.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:41:00 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:41:06 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:43:16 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:57 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 08:53:40 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:53:45 I did like librep back 10 years ago, but didn't do anything serious with it, only some textbook exercises for the fun 08:54:10 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:56:14 poisonarms [~poisonarm@cpe-70-116-22-88.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:57:10 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 08:59:07 DrForr [~jgoff@d149031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 08:59:59 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:24 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 09:02:55 am0c_ [~am0c@203.246.179.173] has joined #lisp 09:03:30 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.250.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:20:54 -!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: ...] 09:22:05 test__ [~user@88.224.13.77] has joined #lisp 09:23:36 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-94-169.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 09:27:20 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 09:28:20 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:29:16 [SLB] [~slabua@host55-130-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:29:16 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host55-130-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 09:29:16 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 09:31:36 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 09:31:38 Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:31:51 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.34.185] has joined #lisp 09:32:40 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:32:50 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@203.246.179.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:23 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:38:02 NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.0.150] has joined #lisp 09:39:17 I want functions to be readable(do not care how fast/memory-effective is it). How can I do it? 09:39:59 NeedMoreDesu: function-lambda-expression 09:40:12 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:40:41 NeedMoreDesu: but since implementations are free to return NIL, then it's useless, then you should implement your own bookeeping. Eg. http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/ibcl/index.html 09:41:34 NeedMoreDesu: use an interpreter. UCW's grown a pretty good one I hear. 09:41:38 Now, the problem is that you cannot write a PRINT-OBJECT method on FUNCTION, so you cannot use PRINT to print them readably. But you can use your own function eg. PRINT-FUNCTION. 09:42:07 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:42:40 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:50 NeedMoreDesu: finally, another bigger problem is that in general, functions are not functions, but closures. 09:43:18 Writing closures require writing their environment (and possibly the other functions enclosed in the embedded enclosures). 09:43:45 Here, we enter the highly implementation dependant domain, or the heavy meta-linguistic region. 09:43:48 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:43:55 ie. either you hack an implementation, or you write your own. 09:44:09 So, really? You want functions to be readable? 09:44:11 H4ns: is lisppaste now working ok? 09:44:13 Just use LOAD!!! 09:44:31 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 09:44:43 stassats: no, does not seem like it. 09:45:05 pjb: I got it. Thanks. 09:45:10 -!- jaly [~user@218.75.69.131] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:14 -!- superflit [~superflit@65-128-38-46.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: superflit] 09:47:33 H4ns: does pasting working? 09:48:00 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:48:05 stassats: yes, seems to be working. 09:48:37 stassats: the cl-irc related problems seem to be making the thing unstable, so i don't know whether my change was good at all. 09:49:13 i think irc-interaction should be left for now, i'll try to move irc-code of lisppaste to what minion and specbot are using during the weekend 09:51:49 stassats: i guess that makes sense 09:53:41 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 09:57:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-18.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:58:07 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-jtbbpejwqyicvyfq] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:59:51 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-opzyeyzsrlwdbvee] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:00:09 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:11 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 10:00:33 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 10:07:48 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:11:52 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:11:54 -!- lisporu [~chatzilla@124.123.173.211] has left #lisp 10:12:08 -!- shwouchk [~shwouchk@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:12 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-18.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:18:41 -!- springz [~springz@118-163-74-175.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:20:45 yakov [~yakov@77.72.122.210] has joined #lisp 10:21:08 who knows if Stripe uses CL? :-) 10:21:56 i see antifuchs works for them. 10:24:16 doubtful 10:24:41 as far as i know, it is not a lisp shop 10:25:23 antifuchs is just not doing enough brainwashing then 10:26:49 i think he works as a hacker, not a brainwasher 10:27:05 that's a good cover! 10:27:40 a) infiltrate b) earn trust c) move everything to lisp 10:29:31 stassats, this does not work 10:31:58 hopefully, i'll close this round and you'll hear about all-Lips shop some time in future ha-ha ;-) 10:32:22 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:37:08 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.200.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:42:56 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:44:44 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 10:49:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:50:55 *JuanDaugherty* would yawn at anything other than an employee owned such shop. 10:51:23 pnq [~nick@AC816350.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 10:54:48 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 10:57:04 -!- homie` 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[~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 13:13:10 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:14:14 tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:24 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19:41 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:20:36 anddam [~andrea@199.19.224.42] has joined #lisp 13:20:51 hello 13:21:08 hello 13:24:28 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:26:54 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 13:30:34 pnq [~nick@ACA2FE07.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:38 -!- Quadresce is now known as Quadrescence 13:34:25 (morning 'lisp) 13:35:25 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:37:38 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-9-108.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:37:38 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:37:57 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 13:38:26 is there something like a Schema for Lisp list structures? 13:38:55 LaughingMan: You can use defstruct in that way, sort of. 13:41:00 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-jtivauynwdtpcmla] has joined #lisp 13:41:30 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:42:37 that would be for data, but wouldn't it be useful for code (macro-defintions) too (only some wild thoughts) 13:43:14 -!- benny [~user@i577A8A93.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:43:18 kiuma_ [~kiuma@host148-131-static.28-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:44:06 Maybe! 13:44:20 LaughingMan: defstruct provides some of it IIUC 13:45:13 strangely enough I don't see any CL implementation link at the end of http://norvig.com/sudoku.html 13:46:59 probably impossible 13:48:24 sorry? is that just so that I try to show you wrong and spend my time doing it? :) 13:48:39 mmmmaybe 13:48:57 hehe, then I like the comment :) 13:49:25 I wonder if the lisp way would be to offer some kind of DSL here though 13:49:44 he has a nice data structure definition to begin with, already 13:50:40 well I guess translating his python code directly would offer a kind of dsl actually, or at least what I have in mind 13:50:44 will try later on :) 13:50:56 question re cl-who: I want to use a macro that expands into some to-be-HTML-structure -- (:a :href ...) etc. 13:51:17 how would I do that? I currently to that by (str (function-that-produces-a-string ...)) 13:51:40 but using a macro would allow to concatenate the constant strings together 13:52:06 how would I get a macro expanded within a (with-html-output-to-string) form? 13:52:12 flip214: use function-that-prints-to-the-stream instead 13:52:21 flip214: That's a little bit like writing a macro that expands into a slot definition. The evaluation rules don't expand macros there. 13:52:36 (defclass foo () ((my-slot-macro fribble))) is a no-go 13:53:01 flip214: you can define your own tags with CONVERT-TAG-TO-STRING-LIST 13:53:28 daimrod: neat, i don't think i noticed that function before 13:53:41 thanks! 13:53:48 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 13:53:57 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-191-230.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:53:57 daimrod: thanks, will try! 13:54:11 Xach: that's why there are so many implementations of (defclass*) 13:54:41 oh, btw, that should be a CDR, I guess... a (defclass*) that has and takes defaults for the slot options 13:54:45 A sign of working at the wrong level. 13:55:05 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:55:24 Xach: I don't know about you, but I generally need :initarg, :accessor for my (defclass) slots ... and that's very repetitive 13:56:37 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:44 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.104.132] has joined #lisp 13:56:57 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-cxuzwjqnrsoaeupi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:57:29 I find it helps to start not with defclass, but with defgeneric. 13:58:00 flip214: if you don't like typing, use your editor to help you 13:58:28 or write your defclass* macro away from code anyone else will ever see. 13:58:30 flip214: same as Xach. With the right design, accessors happen to be a quick way to make simple classes fit a given interface. 13:58:35 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 14:00:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:00:50 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:12 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:01:22 Xach, flip214: btw I've also modified CONVERT-ATTRIBUTES because I also wanted to customize how attributes where generated. 14:01:26 Well, getting the generics first is something that I'm seeing in my programming lately, yes 14:01:39 hmm paste.lisp.org is still down? 14:01:58 well, it was up, now it's down 14:02:00 although I still think that "show me your data structures and I'll be enlightened..." holds 14:02:02 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.34.241] has joined #lisp 14:02:05 again 14:02:13 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2FE07.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:06:14 stassats: LOOP: Good or evil? 14:06:55 flip214: it still holds, in its more general version: show me your interface. 14:07:12 (I'm thinking you'll answer 'evil' given that it perverts the language badly just to save some typing, but I'm curious.) 14:07:28 ChibaPet: ITER ;) 14:07:30 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 14:08:33 IIRC when I was new I briefly used (defclass foo () (#.(expand-slot 'bar))) 14:08:47 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-154-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:08:58 pkhuong: hmmm, I'm not sure about that. At least for me the word "interface" has a meaning of control flow and state-dependency, and therefore muddles the water a bit. But that might just be me. 14:09:38 flip214: I'm seeing a couple things to which ITER could refer. Do you mean ITERATE or is there actually an ITER that's distinct? 14:09:43 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ttowpleujmgovzlk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:09:47 flip214: ADT if you prefer. 14:09:55 ChibaPet: ITER is a macro in ITERATE 14:10:08 Alright, found a reference, then. Reading. 14:10:41 Alright, yeah, that seems a bit less bletcherous. 14:12:40 ChibaPet: much better than LOOP, especially for indentation ... 14:14:58 i have no problem with indenting loop 14:15:05 emacs does that nicely. 14:15:30 http://items.sjbach.com/211/comparing-loop-and-iterate 14:15:36 ChibaPet: but the answer is "good but flawed", which is the best thing you can say for anything 14:16:08 daimrod: and how do I use the list of strings within a (with-html-o-t-s) block? (str (functionx ...)) doesn't work, neither without (str) 14:18:22 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:18:46 flip214: there is an example at the end of the CL-WHO documentation http://weitz.de/cl-who/#convert-tag-to-string-list 14:19:05 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.200] has joined #lisp 14:20:06 ChibaPet: loop, very good 14:20:13 ChibaPet: could be better, though 14:22:47 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-188-208.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:22:48 ChibaPet: loop doesn't save typing by adding implicit things, everything is done explicitly 14:23:52 except where it is anaphoric 14:24:48 ykm [~yash@182.237.172.202] has joined #lisp 14:25:19 its anophoricity is limited, though, it's only for WHEN and UNLESS, and you can't do when x collect (+ it 2) 14:25:26 yakov_ [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-236.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 14:25:41 (loop for key being the hash-keys in *some-table* using ... 14:25:55 yeah, that's one of the things that could be better 14:26:20 the biggest plus of loop is that it is part of cl 14:26:40 H4ns: and it's also interesting how badly anaphora goes: things like (say) (loop ... when (< (sqrt x) 10) collect it) collect the wrong thing for me (should collect (sqrt x) in english, does collect T) 14:26:45 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:28:27 tfb: i'm never using anaphoric stuff. 14:28:34 me neither 14:28:44 -!- cymew [~cymew@80.169.182.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:28:47 it's hard enough in English! 14:28:49 -!- yakov [~yakov@77.72.122.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:29:18 ice_ [~ice@123.123.252.198] has joined #lisp 14:29:58 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:30:58 -!- ice [~ice@222.130.133.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:31:09 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-82.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:33:36 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@139.82.241.1] has joined #lisp 14:39:56 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-231-238.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:20 stlifey [~stlifey@59.35.101.216] has joined #lisp 14:49:29 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:49:43 benny [~user@i577A8B20.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:49:57 pnq [~nick@ACA324E2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:52:59 AeroNotix [~xeno@aeat51.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:53:22 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:53:30 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 14:53:35 Greetings lispers 14:53:41 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aeat51.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 14:54:03 AeroNotix [~xeno@aeat51.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:55:02 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 14:55:56 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:06 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@139.82.241.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:57:17 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:57:37 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:55 -!- benny [~user@i577A8B20.versanet.de] has left #lisp 14:59:49 "It's already in all the CL implementations" was the fact that finally ended my dalliance with iterate. 15:00:12 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:00:19 well, it's not really a big problem nowadays 15:01:00 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:26 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:01:48 daimrod: If I'm returning forms, how do they know to which stream they should print to? 15:02:11 I'm trying to implement a (:for-each :var i :list '(1 2 3) (:span (str i) " ")) tag 15:02:41 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.200] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 15:02:41 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-195-55.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:15 wouldn't cl-who:htm do the trick for you? 15:03:35 I cannot return a list of strings, because the data _within_ the list is only available at runtime (eg. from database) 15:04:15 that sentence doesn't really make sense 15:04:24 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-169-83-186.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:42 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.30] has joined #lisp 15:05:47 flip214: when you define your own tag, you only define how it expands not how attributes are expanded. (eg. (:red ...)  ) 15:05:48 pkhuong: ah yes, a (str ,@ (funcall ...)) did the trick 15:06:01 (hello 'world) 15:06:02 flip214: what problem are you trying to solve? 15:06:04 I haven't used WHO in ages, but isn't (dolist (i '(1 2 3)) (cl-who:htm (:span (str i) " "))) what flip214's looking for? 15:06:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:06:20 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:58 tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 15:07:21 well, I think I have solved it already 15:07:25 pkhuong: nearly. 15:08:06 if you want to split html generation parts into different functions, just use a single stream 15:08:07 I want to get eg. (:table (:for-each :var el :list (clsql:select 'table) (:tr (:td (id el)) (:td (name el)))) 15:08:30 ie. avoid having to switch between HTML and LISP mode for loops 15:08:54 why do you want that? 15:09:06 cl-who is very clean because it doesn't work that way. Just sprinkle HTM where needed. 15:10:50 The other option is to complain that it fails to work with any/all of series, iterate, screamer, webblocks, or any other codewalked extensions written by people who thought they knew better and just had to extend CL in a non-modular manner. 15:12:13 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:13:17 tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 15:14:49 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:16:11 flip214: yaml 15:16:36 pkhuong: That statement makes me feel like less of a curmudgeon. Thank you for providing a needed dose of affirmation. 15:17:50 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:06 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:18:07 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:18:56 kanru` [~kanru@36-226-34-183.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:18 cedrics [~cedric@pc-142-176-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:28 benny [~user@i577A8B20.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:19:28 ThomasH: I'm one of those people who thought they knew better. 15:20:07 pkhuong: i think it is part of the cl learning process. 15:20:26 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-169-83-186.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 15:21:23 pkhuong: Sure, I've run into things that don't quite work the way I want them to. Then I play with extending it and realize that the effort of adapting is a couple of orders of magnitude less than getting the extension correct. 15:21:40 So, I adapt. 15:22:11 Especially considering the benefit of the extension. 15:23:40 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 15:23:40 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 15:23:40 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 15:26:14 "- transparent" is an awesome bullet point on a feature list. I'm not convinced it's usually an awesome *feature*. 15:28:37 holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:34 Hard to see, though. 15:30:28 anyone interested in the result? 15:33:42 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:33:56 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:35:56 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aeat51.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:42:12 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA324E2.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:43:33 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:44:08 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:44:18 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-236.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:47:50 the sudden silence makes me think of a classroom, after some especially hard question from the teacher ;) 15:50:00 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc1-sgyl27-2-0-cust785.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:52:42 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.212.178] has joined #lisp 15:53:30 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:55:07 -!- EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55:45 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:56:19 -!- benny [~user@i577A8B20.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 15:57:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:57:31 EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 15:57:35 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:58:50 benny [~user@i577A8B20.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:49 bobbysmith007: herep? 16:01:09 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:37 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:01:41 any other clsql people herep? 16:02:00 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.30] has left #lisp 16:02:17 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:04:36 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.212.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:49 pnq [~nick@AC82C71C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:19 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:05:19 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:20 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:08:23 just say what you found flip, I'm interested, even tho I did not do any web stuff in lisp yet. 16:09:41 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 16:11:32 maxm: http://pastebin.com/zTcQrra1 16:11:59 flip214: have you seen this? http://3ofcoins.net/2009/02/07/yaclml-in-pictures-part-i-html-generation/ 16:12:03 I like that much better than having to go out of HTML mode and back again ... 16:12:16 flip214: you don't have to go out of html mode 16:12:31 and you already have two str and one esc, what's one htm more would do? 16:12:40 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:13:10 flip214: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/4W9F2o3c5gw 16:13:15 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-231-238.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:13:26 maxm: I looked at yaml, but I didn't like the <: prefix 16:13:45 and besides, it's quite confusing 16:14:28 I'm sure that there are several other alternatives ... I like that, and I've learned something new. 16:14:45 yea <:tag looks a bit weird, but you can get used to it, or make your own package and re-export under different nickname 16:14:55 learning is good, just don't use it 16:17:17 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:17:33 yea I just bookmarked it, have not tried any of them yet 16:20:07 what i don't like about cl-who is that it just prints everything to stream, it'd be nice if it produced some sort of structure which you could manipulate 16:22:52 and some of the examples on the 3ofcoins site are not the best 16:23:38 I'm wondering if this is a valid technique? http://i.imgur.com/dK1N7.png 16:25:27 maxm: it's nice having (:p "text") 16:26:20 can be easily changed by doing (or (and (constantp args) ...) ,@) stuff 16:26:20 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.104.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:26:43 anyway what I meant by "technique" is using macrolet defining keywords as macros 16:26:53 and you'd have to create macrolets for every tag 16:27:14 i'm not sure how that will affect compilation 16:28:44 stassats: wondering if its possible to somehow capture the lexical environment (if that even makes sense), by taking a reference to a lambda from inside such macrolet, then calling it inside your (with-html) macro 16:28:59 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 16:29:29 above may be complete nonsense btw, since I pretty much just read-skip clhs parts when it talks about lexical environments of macros :-) 16:31:01 it does not make sense indeed 16:31:41 yea just tried it and its not possible 16:32:27 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 16:32:38 What'd I miss? 16:32:52 minion: please tell ThomasH about logs 16:32:52 ThomasH: look at logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 16:36:55 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:40:31 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@dancol.org] has left #lisp 16:42:44 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:43:12 -!- kiuma_ [~kiuma@host148-131-static.28-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:49:47 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.101.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:20 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 16:54:47 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:55:33 -!- pnq [~nick@AC82C71C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:56:54 stassats: Should I start with the 2000 logs? 16:57:08 yes 16:57:17 ThomasH: what Xach said 16:57:28 Well... alright, I'll be back in a bit. 16:59:54 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:01:19 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:46 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:04:23 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 17:04:38 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 17:09:24 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:09:24 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:12:29 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-188-208.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:16:01 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:16:09 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.200.61] has joined #lisp 17:16:15 -!- EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:16:57 m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.122] has joined #lisp 17:16:58 -!- ykm [~yash@182.237.172.202] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:17:31 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-158-80.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:20:16 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129070251.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 17:21:47 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:22:33 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 17:23:32 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:25:18 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:25:23 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:42 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 17:29:30 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:33:06 -!- kanru` [~kanru@36-226-34-183.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:34:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:36:48 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 17:37:21 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 17:37:34 EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 17:37:50 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:38:07 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:38:15 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:52 kpreid_ [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:27 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:28 -!- kpreid_ is now known as kpreid 17:44:13 is paste.lisp.org down ? 17:44:16 This is going to take a little longer than I thought, truly fascinating. You guys mind holding off any new discussions until I catch up? 17:44:50 ThomasH: as long as you read faster than new discussion, you should be fine by 2014 or so 17:47:00 -!- benny [~user@i577A8B20.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:48:53 homie: yes 17:51:48 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:52:05 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:46 i got the LifeGUI.java example along with life.lisp for the conways game of life thing in abcl, but somehow i get an error when trying to compile it via javac -cp "dist/abcl.jar:dist/abcl-contrib.jar:dist/jna.jar:dist/platform.jar:$CLASSPATH" LifeGUI.java 17:54:04 ConditionThrowable...... 17:54:06 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A524.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:22 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 17:55:52 -!- ku1 [~ku1@75.107.225.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:59 fantazo_ [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 17:56:08 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: pa a] 17:56:13 pnq [~nick@ACA26E4B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:56:17 ku1 [~ku1@75.107.225.229] has joined #lisp 17:56:17 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:56:19 must be something not imported or so.... 17:56:38 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:41 they not even put up a line how to compile that thang.....*grumbles* 17:57:09 or load it via abcl..... 18:01:04 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-82.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:01:29 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:53 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:03:09 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:52 -!- mindCrime [~prhodes@c-67-162-98-95.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:59 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-237-022.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:16 mindCrime [~prhodes@c-67-162-98-95.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:38 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 18:05:21 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:40 -!- NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.0.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:07:22 -!- Archenoth [~user@96.51.223.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:10:18 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-82.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:11:19 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-94-169.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:11:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-211.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:12:10 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:14:06 fantazo_ [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 18:14:06 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Client Quit] 18:14:41 -!- specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14:41 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14:59 fantazo_ [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 18:16:24 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:24 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:57 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 18:22:30 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:22:53 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.45.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:36 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:30:26 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:32:38 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:32:46 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:11 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.86.181] has joined #lisp 18:41:10 AeroNotix [~xeno@aeat51.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:46:01 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 18:47:56 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 18:49:30 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-94-169.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 18:49:42 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD7AAA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:38 igors [~igors@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 18:52:41 jdz [~jdz@89.201.97.48] has joined #lisp 18:55:09 anyone got the abcl example LifeGUI app ? 18:58:22 nope, ask in #abcl 18:59:07 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-158-80.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:00:21 err, does that channel exist ? 19:00:48 It will if you go there! 19:01:10 ok i'm there now, hi Chiba! 19:01:21 you're still here 19:01:23 Alright, so, it doesn't look wildly popular. I think there might be a mailing list available. 19:04:05 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-186-136.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 19:08:53 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-186-136.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:10:32 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.122] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:55 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:11:12 Guthur [~user@host86-148-164-73.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:13 m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.122] has joined #lisp 19:13:56 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:14:06 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-112-65.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 19:19:43 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@59.35.101.216] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 19:25:59 H4ns: ping 19:26:29 pyöng-yöng! 19:26:41 pyongyang 19:26:59 pongyang! 19:27:05 or just pong! 19:27:07 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:27:11 that as well, hehe 19:28:12 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:28:21 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:39 H4ns: nevermind 19:31:14 is it a common side track to want to use defclass around standard CL types to solve problems? here I'm going to manipulate a 2-D array and I'm thinking about encapsulating that into its own defclass, then using methods rather than just function. There's no avdantage over just using an API which takes the vector as its first arg, right? 19:31:52 as usual it gets interesting when you want to hold more than just a single slot and/or want to subclass, I guess 19:32:04 depends on the sort of dispatch you need. 19:32:16 yeah exactly, I foresee none here 19:32:47 I'm trying to port http://norvig.com/sudoku.html, but rather than just doing things exactly the same, I'm trying to hop on the lispy side of things 19:33:22 I don't see what the point is then. If you only need to attach auxiliary data, you can also use a weak hash table. 19:33:23 teaching myself some more data types in CL, and well, just using it some more to practice 19:33:44 yeah hash table would do 19:34:17 astalla [~alessio@93.56.53.239] has joined #lisp 19:34:27 but really (gethash "A1" board) against (aref 0 0 board), why would I need a hash table? 19:34:55 I meant hash table instead of trying to subclass ARRAY just to add a slot. 19:35:04 my guess is that (make-array '(9 9) :element-type 'fixnum :initial-element 0) would allow for a simpler implementation 19:35:16 oh sorry 19:35:18 -!- jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:21 that slot idea was more generic 19:35:44 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:35:47 I'm not thinking I need another slot here, I've been using that in some other places to use a hashtable + lock 19:36:14 I think you'll find an element type of (unsigned-byte 9) more useful. A 3x3x3x3 hypercube also makes things a lot more regular. 19:36:52 oh I want to implement the same algorythm as proposed by Norvig, so I won't go as far as an hypercube, I don't think so 19:37:23 it's just that the python dict he uses does not look to me like a good match of a CL hash-table here 19:37:38 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA26E4B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:37:39 jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has joined #lisp 19:37:46 but of course I'm very much of a CL n00b so I don't trust my gut feeling 19:39:05 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:39:10 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:39:40 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 19:39:56 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.82.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:08 ok, paste.lisp.org is up 19:40:26 got rid of the remaining araneida parts, some things may not work 19:42:37 *stassats* witnesses a bot galore in the logs 19:43:00 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:44:28 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:29 stassats: is it on hunchentoot now? 19:48:36 yes 19:48:44 stassats: cool. just it does not work :) 19:48:51 it's restarting 19:48:55 ah, ok 19:49:07 which includes reading all the paste 19:49:12 i'll add a cache later 19:51:54 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:52:14 up again 19:52:28 and pasting actually works this time 19:53:04 i should sprinkle some nofollow 19:53:11 kanedank [~k@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:38 what's an easy way to calculate an md5 in cl? 19:53:38 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:53:54 (md5:md5sum-string "the-string") 19:54:04 you'll want (ql:quickload :md5) 19:54:23 sum-string? 19:54:28 _string_? 19:55:18 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:20 hm. 19:55:30 something is left for research :) 19:55:40 looks like md5:md5sum-sequence works on strings 19:56:04 ascii strings only 19:56:24 err, no, it does work on unicode ones too 19:56:40 what would work on a binary file? 19:57:01 md5:md5sum-file 19:57:14 francisl_ [~flavoie@199.84.162.114] has joined #lisp 19:57:46 sb-md5:md5sum-file is faster 19:58:12 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-112-65.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:59:26 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:59:26 -!- francisl_ is now known as francisl 19:59:45 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:01:31 should (require :asdf :sb-md5) work? 20:01:49 no 20:02:01 minion: tell kanedank about quicklisp 20:02:02 kanedank: look at quicklisp: Quicklisp aims to make it easy to get started with a rich set of community-developed Common Lisp libraries. http://www.cliki.net/quicklisp 20:02:11 ThomasH: no as well! 20:02:20 kanedank: (require :sb-md5) 20:02:40 Ah, he's looking at sbcl specific stuff. 20:04:45 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@83.226.180.44] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:34 pnq [~nick@AC8173D0.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:05:37 stassats: thank you! 20:06:41 SHODAN [~shozan@c-2cb4e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:06:47 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 20:08:27 is there a good way of getting a list of pathname objects for every file/folder below a subdir? 20:08:40 (directory (make-pathname :name :wild :type :wild :defaults "/path")) seems to not go below it's initial dir... 20:08:51 recursively? 20:08:58 yes 20:09:04 use cl-fad 20:09:46 kennyd: you need :wild-inferiors 20:10:22 cl-fad:walk-directory 20:11:17 -!- cedrics [~cedric@pc-142-176-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has left #lisp 20:11:32 in make-array is there a way to say :element-type 'list-of-fixnums, and is that even interesting? 20:12:04 dim: there is no type list-of-fixnums 20:12:13 dim: the closest you can get is CONS 20:12:34 I though there wouldn't be, I could make it a vector though, maybe 20:12:34 dim: and for the array it is as good as T 20:13:00 even if there were, the array would be specialized to it 20:13:16 wouldn't 20:13:46 francisl_ [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 20:15:36 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 20:16:07 for walk-directory, what am I supposed to be passing to it for a fn? #'cl-fad:list-directory? 20:16:42 no, a function you want to be called on each file 20:17:03 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.162.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:17:03 -!- francisl_ is now known as francisl 20:23:16 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-153-22.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: bbl] 20:24:04 atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has joined #lisp 20:24:59 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:25:32 -!- atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:39 atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has joined #lisp 20:28:31 :initial-element (make-array 9 :element-type fixnum :initial-contents '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9))) 20:28:36 I'm trying that 20:29:02 fixnum is the name of the type and must be quoted 20:29:40 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:29:43 ah yes. I did that in the repl... 20:30:01 Xach: (shadow 'fixnum) (defvar fixnum 'cl:fixnum) 20:30:34 where's that lisptip about map-into for initialisation? That's the other issue that I can see. 20:31:04 dim: also, your initial element will be a single array, reused for all elements 20:31:22 oh thanks, that's not what I want 20:31:24 pkhuong: you mean (map-into (make-array ...) func)? 20:31:30 initial-elements, right? 20:31:37 dim: no 20:31:45 no such thing 20:31:51 sykopomp: yes, I mean the lisptip that explains the difference. 20:32:00 ah 20:32:27 -!- ksergio [~sgarcia@mail.ageophysics.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:33:09 http://lisptips.com/post/12070678005/initialize-a-vector-with-map-into 20:33:29 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 20:34:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-18.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:02 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:41:21 -!- kanedank [~k@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:23 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:42:02 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-jtivauynwdtpcmla] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:27 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-148-164-73.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55:36 yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-69.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 20:56:19 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 20:57:07 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:57:15 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 20:57:54 fantazo_ [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 21:00:04 -!- yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-69.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:00:30 Guthur [~user@host86-148-164-73.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:02:05 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:02:44 -!- alexander__b [~alexander@140.100.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:06:22 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:32 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:09:45 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD7AAA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:10:49 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:56 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj1993] has joined #lisp 21:11:23 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.86.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:13:23 r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.48.213] has joined #lisp 21:14:44 alexander__b [~alexander@140.100.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 21:23:19 -!- atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving, leaving, gone...] 21:23:55 -!- jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:09 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 21:29:17 is there a function allowing me to remove an item from a vector *and* know whether it was found? 21:31:20 no 21:31:44 position + remove then? 21:31:59 removing things from vectors is probably not the best idea anyway 21:32:09 if you care about performance, that is 21:32:14 save old length; remove; compare length with old length 21:32:20 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 21:32:25 mal__: and? 21:32:26 I could either build a new one (i do care) or substitute with a marker? 21:33:08 stassats: possible solution to dim's question. oc, you're right that removing stuff at arbitrary positions is not what a vector is meant for 21:33:11 well, not substitute, position+setf seems to way to go 21:35:16 if you're still solving sudokus and are removing numbers from 0 to 9, you could use a bit-array for that instead 21:35:16 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:35:27 looking at that then 21:35:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:55 I'm still on that yes, I've been distracted away by work, but I try to still make progress :) 21:40:12 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:42:40 -!- astalla [~alessio@93.56.53.239] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 21:45:56 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@d149031.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:48:27 Forty-3 [~seana11@198.24.31.70] has joined #lisp 21:48:29 does lisp care if string literals have newlines in them? 21:48:59 TimKack [~user@d115007.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:49:07 Forty-3: Nope. 21:49:17 ok 21:49:43 well, it does care, they end up in the string 21:50:36 stassats: Heh, I almost added that, then thought "man, I have to stop being so pedantic" ;) 21:51:34 sometimes i want that it would not include them 21:52:28 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:52:56 superflit [~superflit@65-128-38-46.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:01 xaxisx [~xaxisx@184.175.54.34] has joined #lisp 21:53:58 bye for now 21:54:04 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@184.175.54.34] has quit [Client Quit] 21:54:11 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:54:19 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:42 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:58:25 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@198.24.31.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:59:35 yakov [~yakov@128-72-171-181.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:08:04 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:10:15 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:28 -!- r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.48.213] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]] 22:18:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-211.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:21:40 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:23:46 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 22:23:49 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:49 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:23:49 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 22:26:10 meiji11 [~user@96.51.60.120] has joined #lisp 22:27:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:29:09 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:30:42 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8173D0.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:34:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-211.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:38:06 -!- jdz [~jdz@89.201.97.48] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 22:38:08 -!- igors [~igors@186.192.87.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:58 What am I doing wrong with my defsetf? http://pastebin.com/f6nAjCri 22:40:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:41:35 what a weird class name 22:42:08 and you don't need defsetf 22:42:11 just define a setf-method 22:42:27 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-50-85.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:03 -!- superflit [~superflit@65-128-38-46.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:43:16 Hello 22:46:22 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:46:53 atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:01 -!- poisonarms [~poisonarm@cpe-70-116-22-88.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:52:54 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:53:20 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-50-85.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has left #lisp 22:53:33 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:58:31 stassats: that's an old convention of naming classes with . 22:59:03 Perhaps in some older lisp classnames weren't in a different namespace? In scheme you probably would want to do that. 22:59:09 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-237-022.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:59:19 (define (class )) 22:59:26 it's from Dylan, afaik 22:59:39 I've seen it in CL code so far. 23:00:04 I've seen it in CL code to define interfaces (see: fare's IPS code) 23:00:14 and I used to use <> when I thought it was a good idea. 23:01:18 the dylan folks perhaps thought "hmm, we don't have enough parenthesis to antagonize people, let's put some <>" 23:01:40 -!- yakov [~yakov@128-72-171-181.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:03:07 has (eval-when (:compile) (defparameter foo (expensive-funcall))) any sense? 23:03:30 depends on what sense you want 23:03:45 I'm really not sure how to do this properly... 23:03:56 well I guess that would allow running the expensive code at compile time 23:04:03 phelps_ [~cinch@2001:470:1f0f:2fa:d49d:7249:1723:efc2] has joined #lisp 23:04:04 but I smell traps 23:04:33 what makes it better to run the code at compile-time? 23:04:38 I'll save it for another day, and will stop caring for now 23:04:46 stassats: that's a very good question indeed 23:05:08 I guess I could somehow trick a benchmark 23:05:15 but... 23:05:15 nightfly19: (defmethod (setf foo) (new-value parameters) ...(setf (gethash parameters...) new-value)) 23:05:32 dim: what kind of benchmark? 23:05:42 -!- punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: punee] 23:05:52 nightfly19: what you did wrong is that you didn't read CLHS defsetf. 23:05:59 nightfly19: the examples are clear. 23:06:07 nightfly19: you should write it like that: (defsetf -content-field (page field) (value) `(setf (gethash ,field (-content ,page)) ,value)) 23:06:11 stassats: http://norvig.com/sudoku.html 23:06:24 but well I'm progressing very slow, bench will be for another day 23:06:28 slowly even 23:06:35 nightfly19: otherwise, indeed, this is not a case where you need defsetf, defmethod (setf -content-field) is good enough here. 23:06:54 dim: you can precompute all possible sudoku answers 23:06:55 pnq [~nick@ACA2264A.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:07:00 and call it a day 23:07:05 hehe :) 23:07:32 I'm trying to teach myself some data types in CL by "porting" that sudoku python code 23:07:35 Yeah, that's how I lose interest playing with games: when game theorists come with a solution. 23:08:14 by the way careful study of that python code shows a very ugly code 23:08:26 timack [~timack@hlfx59-2a-205.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 23:08:29 I wouldn't dare turning it into a public article, really 23:08:41 -!- timack [~timack@hlfx59-2a-205.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 23:08:48 so I'm trying not to fall on the "quick&dirty" trap myself 23:09:02 but anyway, if I'm talking here rather than writing code, I guess it's time to sleep 23:09:04 see you :) 23:10:57 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 23:12:41 one paper claims that there are 6670903752021072936960 sudoku grids 23:12:56 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 23:13:02 pjb: Thank you, I /did/ read the hyperspec page but am still learning how macros are expanded so I failed to gain much from it. You gave me more then what I need though. :) 23:13:27 *stassats* is sad 23:14:55 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:15:24 hm, you can save on similar grids and have just 5472730538 grids 23:17:14 which is quite manageable, don't know how one would search through them, though 23:18:24 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl11-117-160.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:21:53 kanedank [~k@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:18 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 23:24:09 -!- test__ [~user@88.224.13.77] has left #lisp 23:24:59 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-211.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:26:12 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 23:27:28 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:27:52 -!- atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving on a jet plane...] 23:28:30 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:30:07 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:30:56 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:54 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:33:50 zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:48 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:09 timack [~timack@hlfx59-2a-205.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 23:37:02 phadthai: I don't know if you remember for a little while back, but I was here asking about multicasting. Just wanted to let you know that I got that working. I used the solution at http://paste.lisp.org/display/67740 modified slightly for my O.S.'s C socket library 23:38:41 stassats: sort them and use a binary search :-) 23:38:57 hey, I was trying to cleanup my code and put a let within a let binding form, does that work? it's line 52 23:38:58 https://gist.github.com/3063418 23:39:28 kanedank: have a look at LET* 23:39:51 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:39:57 why do you have progn? 23:40:13 pjb: ? 23:40:34 stassats: I wasn't sure how initialize-instance worked, I must have left that in from when I was playing around with it 23:40:40 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aeat51.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 23:40:45 kanedank: I was looking at stringify-file, but perhaps you don't need let* there. Otherwise initialization expressions are expressions, so a let there works fine. 23:40:57 it has nothing to do with initialize-instance, defmethod includes an implicit progn 23:41:10 ah, okay 23:41:33 as does every other defining operator 23:41:44 zulu_inuoe: nice, hmm maybe that it'd eventually be a good idea to have sb-sockets natively support such even, ECL would probably also add the same interface to remain compatible... there's a protocol already for socket options, in which it probably could be integrated 23:42:07 -!- meiji11 [~user@96.51.60.120] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:42:25 kanedank: why don't you populate the hashtable directly? 23:42:38 okay, well going from let* to let and removing the progn, I still can't reference dir-to-serve for some reason 23:42:58 stassats: what do you mean? 23:43:13 kanedank: without creating a list 23:44:03 hmm, I don't didn't think of that, I guess I was too busy trying to declare everything in the let 23:44:12 zulu_inuoe: thanks for the feedback 23:44:17 that seems like an awesome suggestion! 23:44:21 (walk-directory 'dir-to-serve (lambda (f) (setf (gethash 'dir dir-table) (make-instance 'stringified-file :path f)))) 23:44:35 pjb: and lose ' before dir 23:44:51 Right. I dumbly copied what was there. 23:44:51 or rather, s/'dir/f/ 23:44:55 phadthai: Sure thing. Thanks to you for the help. I'm lisping some stuff at work they'd never thought would be lispd 23:46:16 (not (equal nil filetype)) is just filetype 23:47:02 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl11-117-160.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 23:47:20 and file-length will return a wrong value for unicode files, use alexandria:read-file-into-string instead 23:48:11 stassats, pjb: thanks! 23:48:36 well, and your hashtable is EQL, wouldn't match pathnames 23:48:56 or strings 23:49:09 EQUAL would 23:50:07 (OR (VECTOR CHARACTER) (VECTOR NIL) BASE-STRING PATHNAME FILE-STREAM) 23:50:07 datum: CONSERVATORY::DIR-TO-SERVE>. 23:50:33 don't paste here 23:50:38 right 23:51:08 https://gist.github.com/3063451 23:51:17 well I'm still getting a type error for dir-to-serve 23:52:27 you pass a symbol to walk-directory 23:52:27 stassats: are you sure about eql? I thought I just read in pcl that eql is "good enough" but equal is for stuff like (= 1.0 1) 23:52:42 I mean I'm sure you are right, I just really thought I read that 23:52:58 yes, i know that i am right 23:53:20 and you want s/'dir-to-serve/dir-string/ 23:56:06 and i'm sure that what is said in PCL is right, you just missed the context 23:56:07 ah it works now! but new issue though, is md5sum-file able to handle any sort of file? I just got an error saying sb-int:stream-decoding-error 23:56:49 err, well maybe I'm confusing it with what land of lisp said, the pcl one is pretty clear now that I'm looking at it 23:56:54 by md5sum-file or by your stringify? 23:56:57 I think I jsu tforgot 23:57:24 stassats: yeah, it's stringinfy, stupid me 23:57:24 well, i wouldn't trust much what land of lisp is trying to say anyway 23:57:26 well thank you! 23:57:39 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-43-250.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-211.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:58:11 wait, what do you mean? land of lisp says the wrong things? 23:58:16 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: dobranoc] 23:58:53 it has too much cartoons to be taken seriously, and although i haven't read it, some quotes i encountered are questionable 23:59:17 so, i'd take it with a grain of salt 23:59:56 well thank you stassats, you've been very helpful 23:59:59 -!- kanedank [~k@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]