00:04:24 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 00:06:46 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:07:21 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 00:09:36 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-217-181.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: emo] 00:20:32 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:23 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:12 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:36:41 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 00:38:26 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:50 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has joined #lisp 00:38:50 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has quit [Changing host] 00:38:51 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 00:39:52 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:40:15 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:19 p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has joined #lisp 00:47:32 -!- p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has quit [Client Quit] 00:47:50 p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has joined #lisp 00:48:24 -!- p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has quit [Client Quit] 00:48:41 p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has joined #lisp 00:57:53 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:58:42 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:01:43 -!- kanru` [~kanru@61-228-150-127.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:04:13 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has joined #lisp 01:06:24 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:10:23 -!- scrimohsin [~scrimohsi@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: scrimohsin] 01:12:46 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 01:12:56 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:18:49 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-220-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 01:20:44 scrimohsin [~scrimohsi@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 01:21:55 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 01:23:37 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:25:31 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 01:25:40 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:35:54 pkhuong: about your blog article, I don't remember where I seen it, but there was a nice page describing "tricky" ways to sort 4, 8, 16 and so on element vectors on modern cpus, in C 01:37:27 t pretty much had exhaustive list of almost every trick in the book, some of them very clever. Just need to remember a few keywords to find it its been a few years ago 01:37:52 I even specifically remember some method used no branches, but for life of me can't remember now what the trick was 01:39:23 pkhuong: doh unless you actually re-publishing it, coz your article rings all the same bells for me 01:40:40 -!- jarreds [~user@ec2-204-236-142-90.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:41:00 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has quit [Quit: ] 01:41:51 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.205] has joined #lisp 01:45:00 meiji11 [~user@96.51.60.120] has joined #lisp 01:45:42 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 01:45:43 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:49:27 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-mttvpeqysrlbkcbz] has joined #lisp 01:50:07 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:13 mcurry [~user@pool-96-240-10-148.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:04 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 02:06:16 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.130.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:10:07 maxm: you could do it without branches, by using the sign of a-b. sign(x)=1 if x<0, 0 otherwise. min = a-(a-b)*(1-sign(a-b)) ; max = b+(a-b)*sign(a-b) 02:10:49 Instead of * you can use logand, if you can extend the sign bit to the word size. (aref #(0 #xffff..ff) sign) 02:11:41 -!- meiji11 [~user@96.51.60.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:45 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:16:18 It would be harder to do without IF (or hidden IF) in lisp. 02:16:24 springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has joined #lisp 02:19:23 what happened to the lisp machine operating system? |-: 02:20:11 There are some bits on bitsavers IIRC. 02:20:29 http://www.unlambda.com/cadr/ 02:21:52 anybody know if slime-highlight-edits-mode is supposed to be removing the highlights after I save or reload a file? it seems the only way I can clear highlights is by turning it off and on again 02:23:46 mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has joined #lisp 02:24:20 meiji11 [~user@96.51.60.120] has joined #lisp 02:25:22 -!- mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has left #lisp 02:26:30 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:21 am0c [~am0c@203.246.179.173] has joined #lisp 02:39:59 getoffmalawn [~getoffmal@203.206.169.15] has joined #lisp 02:41:34 what about a lisp OS? 02:41:38 -!- meiji11 [~user@96.51.60.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:45:17 There's a CL implementation ready to let you write a lisp OS. Movtiz. 02:45:20 Movitz. 02:45:33 http://common-lisp.net/project/movitz/ 02:45:45 So if you want a lisp OS, just write it. 02:45:47 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:46:18 I recommend working out why you want one, first. 02:47:01 Indeed, but also remember the justification for Linux: Minix wasn't free nor $free. 02:47:30 ie. you don't need a weak justification. A weakish one is enough. 02:47:57 I used to think that a lisp os was a sensible idea, but now I've come to the conclusion that the point of a kernel is to provide sensible virtual machines to run in. 02:48:35 And you'd probably be better off bathing in a septic tank than to try to deal directly with all of the filth involved in real hardware and shoddy driver development. 02:49:12 Why should it be filthy and shoddy? If you're writing an OS in a high level programming language, it would be as clean and nice as you wish. 02:49:23 Because the hardware is. 02:49:40 hm. 02:49:45 All user requirements are too. 02:49:52 That doesn't prevent using lisp for applications. 02:50:07 On the contrary, lisp is always an asset in managing complexity. 02:50:18 linux wasn't free nor $free -- remains that way today. 02:50:19 hm 02:50:30 linux-libre ... 02:50:53 linux is free (GPL) and $free: you can download it form kernel.org (for the nominal cost of an IP connection and a computer usage). 02:51:58 linux and linux fron kernel.org is non-free 02:52:09 hence linux-libre 02:52:14 removes non-free bits 02:52:41 according to the FSF * 02:52:43 linux has always been free and $free. minix wasn't free nor $free. Nowadays, minix is $free and free. 02:53:06 scrimohsin: you can include non free bits into any free software. 02:54:22 That's even the point of free software: you can do whatever you want onto it (as long as you don't distribute it). 02:57:53 linux official contains non-free software. kernel.org distributes non-free versions. 02:58:02 i'm sorry but this is clearly documeneted. 02:58:53 Well, again, you can remove the non-free bits. Linux itself is GPL. 02:59:37 true. 03:00:41 linux-libre is a good project for removing the non-free bits from vanilla Linux. 03:01:12 i know a guy who still thinks downloading from kernel.org gets him an FSF free kernel. 03:01:22 jus' sayin'. 03:01:49 it's important to remove the non-free software from Linux. |-: 03:03:53 meiji11 [~user@96.51.60.120] has joined #lisp 03:04:01 pjb: "blobs are growing faster than" http://www.fsfla.org/svnwiki/anuncio/2010-03-Linux-2.6.33-libre 03:05:35 *stassats* doesn't see why the freeness of the linux kernel should be discussed in #lisp 03:06:43 stassats: because it could give a reason why one would want to write a free lisp OS. 03:08:05 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483B580.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:28 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A54B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:10:06 the discussion makes me want to write a lisp telepresence fist 03:10:09 pjb: may i privmsg ye further? 03:17:23 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit 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[~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:22:41 -!- chu [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 08:22:41 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 08:24:11 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:28:27 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:33:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:33:54 raining_ [~raining_@S01060026f396243f.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:31 -!- raining_ [~raining_@S01060026f396243f.vc.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 08:43:19 alama [~jessealam@stgt-5f71698e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:50 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.200.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:46:19 http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-plus-j/ notes that it doesn't work under SBCL for the following reason: "due to its inability to handle Unix signals properly in the presence of foreign threads." 08:46:24 is that still an issue? 08:46:46 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:47:01 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 08:48:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-211.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:49:29 yes 08:50:28 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:50:58 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 08:51:12 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:51:23 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 08:51:42 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has left #lisp 08:52:04 stassats: thanks 08:52:12 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 08:52:18 resort to ccl 08:53:19 ccl is very good IME (albeit limited), I wouldn't "resort" to it 08:53:52 *H4ns* has also switched recently because debugging is so much better with ccl 08:54:12 i still deploy with sbcl, though, because it is significantly faster for my use cases. 08:54:18 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-fwrqkxgytoawaxng] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:54:18 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:54:18 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:55:23 I'm yet to try any (speed 3) declarations, I only wrote "controler" code in CL that will distribute the work, not the performance intensive parts (even if in some cases perfs mattered somewhat) 08:56:20 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 09:01:22 -!- drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has quit [Quit: I'm finished!] 09:01:56 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:40 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:56 drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has joined #lisp 09:06:35 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 09:08:58 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:09:28 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:09:50 wws [~billstcla@p-216-227-82-151.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:19 -!- djinni`_ [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:11:32 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:11:40 djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 09:12:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:13:04 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:13:13 The very definition of class. 09:13:23 osa1 [~sinan@india303.server4you.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:25 after (unread-char some-char some-stream), (get-output-stream-string some-stream) returns empty string, what am I doing wrong? 09:14:30 Quadrescence: have you been reading clhs much lately? 09:14:43 osa1: did you read it first? 09:14:53 stassats`, you know it! 09:16:05 stassats`: nope 09:16:19 and unread-char is only for input streams 09:17:26 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-104-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 09:19:04 ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has joined #lisp 09:19:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-211.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:19:34 -!- DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@75-163-226-75.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:20:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-211.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:20:44 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 09:23:18 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:24:37 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:25:45 does CCL read a file like SBCL with .sbclrc? 09:25:57 yes 09:26:08 DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@75-163-226-75.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:15 ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 09:26:42 ah yes .cll-init.lisp 09:26:43 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:28:03 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:44 benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 09:29:36 -!- Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has left #lisp 09:30:17 -!- ice [~ice@123.114.58.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:30:29 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-138-177.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:30 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-138-177.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:32:38 -!- osa1 [~sinan@india303.server4you.net] has left #lisp 09:35:27 daimrod: ~/ccl-init.lisp 09:35:52 ice [~ice@123.114.58.129] has joined #lisp 09:36:28 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128042023.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:37:28 Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has joined #lisp 09:37:41 -!- Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has left #lisp 09:39:08 -!- alama [~jessealam@stgt-5f71698e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 09:39:15 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.34.165] has joined #lisp 09:39:34 alama [~jessealam@stgt-5f71698e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:36 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:42:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.124] has joined #lisp 09:42:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.124] has quit [Changing host] 09:42:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:42:34 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:43:06 maxm: sorting is another issue. We can do bitonic sorts, but for small enough sorts, it makes sense to try and better networks. 09:48:24 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 09:51:24 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:52:24 lony [~user@14.97.190.65] has joined #lisp 09:52:25 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 09:55:03 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 09:57:21 How to call Thunderbird from within CL so that it opens ready to write an email to a specified email address? 09:57:50 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 09:57:53 drl: exactly the same as from within any other program. 09:57:56 How do you do that? 09:57:58 the same way you would call it not from CL 09:58:59 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:59:36 yakov [~androirc@ip-83-149-2-38.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 09:59:39 In the case of firefox, you could do firefox -openurl 'mailto:user@host.com?subject="Some Subject"' 09:59:42 Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:01 or just send mails from lisp 10:00:12 It would be much easier, indeed. 10:02:10 (cl-smtp:send-email "smtp.gmail.com" "mail@gmail.com" "mail@gmail.com" "Subject" "M" :ssl t :port 587 :authentication '(:login "mail@gmail.com" "password")) 10:04:41 pjb and stassats`, thanks. I'll play around with that and see what I can do. 10:05:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-211.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:05:48 -!- benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:05:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-211.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:08:37 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.34.165] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 10:08:48 -!- gko [~user@59-120-37-164.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:08:56 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.34.165] has joined #lisp 10:11:14 yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-2-44.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 10:14:22 -!- yakov [~androirc@ip-83-149-2-38.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:15:16 nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-219.math.tu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 10:16:06 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 10:16:27 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:17:39 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 10:18:34 -!- mindCrime [~prhodes@c-67-162-98-95.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:18:44 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:19:16 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:26:19 LaughingMan_ [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 10:26:29 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:28:59 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:29:43 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:29:46 -!- LaughingMan_ is now known as LaughingMan 10:32:20 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:34:24 -!- lony [~user@14.97.190.65] has quit [Quit: current goes. Bye everyone] 10:39:42 xscc [~sun@221.11.61.144] has joined #lisp 10:41:39 -!- xscc [~sun@221.11.61.144] has left #lisp 10:43:25 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:43:30 Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:52 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 10:44:52 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:45:33 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.34.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:51:34 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:51:34 -!- yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-2-44.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:52:08 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:52:09 Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 10:54:16 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 10:56:28 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-gpjqiofiarmaqhxi] has joined #lisp 10:57:37 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 10:57:42 slime for javascript: http://emacsrocks.com/e11.html 10:58:31 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:00:58 nice 11:01:49 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@116-40-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 11:01:55 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 11:06:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:07:45 Archenot` [~user@96.51.223.95] has joined #lisp 11:08:07 -!- Archenot` is now known as Archenoth` 11:09:09 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:09:52 -!- Archenoth [~user@96.51.223.95] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:09:59 -!- Archenoth` is now known as Archenoth 11:10:29 yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-2-9.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 11:12:04 Yes, I was happy to see SLIME extending outside of the CL world..nice to see good ideas still escaping the cage :-) 11:14:15 Can anyone explain what is exactly novel or unique about SLIME? That's what I don't quite understand. It's a good environment, but -- aside from the mode of user interaction -- what makes it unique with respect to other "intelligent" environments such as those for Java or C++? 11:16:57 it has a REPL 11:17:11 stassats`: I hear Java has REPLs too these days. 11:17:18 Great, but that's not an artifact of SLIME, that's of Lisp. 11:17:30 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:17:31 SLIME-INSPECTOR is nice too. 11:17:32 -!- yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-2-9.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:17:37 pkhuong: i don't believe it's as easy to use as with lisp 11:17:46 yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-2-9.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 11:19:17 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@116-40-11.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:20:10 The "intelligent" environments for C++/Java generally gain their intelligence by static analysis and a static type system. 11:20:22 that is right 11:20:53 The "intelligent" environments of Javascript and Lisp generally gain their intelligence by inspetction/reflection on the state of a running program. 11:21:29 So, potentially, more information is immeditately avaiable to them. 11:21:52 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:22:01 Although static analysis has gotten so good the difference may be becoming moot; I'm not sure. You'd need a heavyweight academic to answer that question ;-) 11:22:41 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.205] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 11:23:20 But one thing you *can* do with SLIME et al is *influence* the state of running code, something impossible with satic analysis by definition. 11:23:36 sorry. static analysis.. 11:23:51 satanic analysis 11:25:22 -!- benny [~user@i577a7f88.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:07 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:30:06 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:31:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-211.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:32:07 benny [~user@i577A7C5B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:32:15 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 11:33:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:33:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-211.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:37:06 sohail [~Adium@75-27-167-48.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:06 -!- sohail [~Adium@75-27-167-48.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:37:06 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 11:44:28 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:45:31 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 11:46:46 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:46:57 sohail1 [~Adium@75-119-242-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 11:46:58 -!- sohail1 [~Adium@75-119-242-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:46:58 sohail1 [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 11:47:24 -!- sohail1 [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 11:47:36 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 11:47:37 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:48:39 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:58 -!- ice [~ice@123.114.58.129] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:52:27 ZabaQ: well the fact is that static analysis is not really possible in dynamic languages such as lisp, javascript, perl, etc. 11:52:29 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:52:43 wow @ slime for js. 11:53:04 dim: are you wowing at swank-js or is there something new? 11:53:08 ice_ [~ice@123.114.58.129] has joined #lisp 11:53:22 I'm discovering the whole thing, ENOCLUE 11:53:24 H4ns: swank-js: http://emacsrocks.com/e11.html 11:53:25 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:55:18 Static analysis is possible in those languages, to the extent of invarance. 11:55:35 e.g., procedures in all of those languages are subject to static analysis. 11:55:58 since an extant procedure cannot be altered, although I'm not sure about perl there. 11:56:34 CL supports various other invariant relationships. 11:57:38 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:57:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:58:50 ignas__ [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:58:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:59:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:59:19 (sb-ext:run-program "/usr/bin/thunderbird" (list "-compose" "to:user@yahoo.com")) That brings up the Thunderbird compose window as I want, but doesn't insert the email address as it is supposed to. Does anyone see why? 12:00:26 https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Command_Line_Options 12:00:33 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:52 -!- ice_ [~ice@123.114.58.129] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:03:52 ice_ [~ice@123.114.58.129] has joined #lisp 12:04:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:05:08 -!- yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-2-9.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:06:00 DrForr [~jgoff@d149031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 12:06:02 -!- ice_ [~ice@123.114.58.129] has quit [Client Quit] 12:07:09 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:40 drl: just open that page yourself 12:08:25 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 12:08:32 ice_ [~ice@123.114.58.129] has joined #lisp 12:09:02 Suthe [~Suthe@99.Red-79-156-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:45 drl: the page says "to=", not "to:" 12:11:29 -!- ice_ [~ice@123.114.58.129] has quit [Client Quit] 12:11:59 ice_ [~ice@123.114.58.129] has joined #lisp 12:15:35 yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-2-39.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 12:16:17 flip214, you have sharp eyes! That fixed it. Now I can go to bed and sleep in peace. Thanks! 12:18:34 -!- ice_ [~ice@123.114.58.129] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:20:26 ice_ [~ice@123.114.58.129] has joined #lisp 12:20:35 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-126-200.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:21:10 drl: use a different font that's easier to read ;) 12:21:33 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:21:53 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-108-22.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 12:25:15 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb121-7-108-184.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:29:48 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:32:43 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:37:18 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.101.47] has joined #lisp 12:37:38 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-135-199-85.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:37:56 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.205] has joined #lisp 12:40:55 lisporu [~chatzilla@124.123.173.211] has joined #lisp 12:41:16 I did not understand last 2 lines of this analysis of algorithm: http://pastebin.com/dMYrf0KX 12:41:23 flip214, or use some eye drops. :>) I've been looking at the monitor too long, but having fun. 12:41:45 lifeng [~lifeng@bb121-7-108-184.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:43:17 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:32 Vutral_ [~ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:25 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:51:28 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:47 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:58 -!- SHUPFS [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:57:29 LOOP is anaphoric!? I had no idea. 12:58:14 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.205] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 12:59:08 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:59:53 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.205] has joined #lisp 13:01:23 -!- Vutral_ [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:03:19 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:03:21 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 13:05:23 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.205] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 13:06:12 langlook [3feb0d03@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.235.13.3] has joined #lisp 13:07:24 defektz [~simon@unaffiliated/soat] has joined #lisp 13:08:32 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.205] has joined #lisp 13:08:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-211.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:08:55 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:10:33 aiserid [~aiserid@121.166.155.18] has joined #lisp 13:11:52 -!- langlook [3feb0d03@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.235.13.3] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:14:20 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 13:14:26 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:15:46 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 13:15:49 -!- aiserid [~aiserid@121.166.155.18] has quit [] 13:17:08 it's true, it's true 13:17:55 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:17:59 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 13:20:13 -!- yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-2-39.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:22:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-211.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:23:07 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:24:11 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.154] has joined #lisp 13:25:45 yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-3-6.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 13:26:09 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:27:40 are there any good tutorials? have googled for days. cant find any.. 13:29:26 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.131.25] has left #lisp 13:29:43 tutorials for what? 13:32:34 Vinzent [~Vinzent@188.18.70.205] has joined #lisp 13:33:10 ra4king [~Roi@unaffiliated/ra4king] has joined #lisp 13:33:14 hello fello lispers 13:33:22 I have abandoned all hope 13:33:39 -!- ra4king [~Roi@unaffiliated/ra4king] has left #lisp 13:33:41 what is hope? 13:33:50 java 13:34:22 Fade: common-lisp :) 13:34:38 -!- zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176324030.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:14 Fade: something with xlib. and how that is working.. :) 13:35:51 minion: tell defektz about PCL 13:35:51 defektz: direct your attention towards PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 13:36:45 first google return for "common lisp xlib" : http://www.cliki.net/CLX 13:36:48 defektz: in my expirience for serious gui work its pretty much CommonQt or gtfo 13:37:31 or capi, or franz's ovfering 13:37:54 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-108-22.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:38:21 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 13:38:28 allright :D 13:38:34 clx ! 13:38:51 defektz: As far as I know there is no common lisp + xlib tutorial. But it's pretty much 1:1 of the c lib stuff anyhoo. 13:39:17 H4ns: you don't have to say something just to be contrary to me.. It will be like if you mention bknr in response to "how about some databases" and I would start pimping allegro cache 13:39:57 maxm: if i always spoke if i find your babbling wrong, i'd speak a lot more 13:40:15 maxm: but claiming that qt is the only option for "serious gui work" is plain misleading. 13:40:18 lisp-drama 13:40:25 defektz: *yawn* 13:40:31 ;) 13:41:17 well, as a stumpwm user, I think the comment that it's commmonqt or nothing seems a bit off. 13:41:29 in reality, it depends on what you're doing. :) 13:41:58 i love stumpwm :D but know I found out that there are 2 more wm 13:42:01 Fade: I hack on stump all the time, 99% of its crashes are due to using low level lib like xlib 13:42:30 fwiw, my current session is 48 days old. I don't see stump crashing very much. 13:43:03 clfswm and tinywm.. buuut so much I have worked on my stumpwm configs there is no way Im switching 13:43:38 kanru` [~kanru@61-228-150-127.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:51 that said, I haven't used it on an nvidia based machine in quite awhile. there may be driver level problems. 13:43:53 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-60-114.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:44:19 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:46:16 Fade: these are not related, as I had reproduced them repeatedly, understand the cause, and fixed them. But more popup all the time with usage.. general problem is that stump mixes the code that manipulates data structures, with xlib:xxx calls 13:46:36 xlib:xxx can throw bad-window at any time, because client died or was kill -9'ed or such 13:47:01 I thank you for your work, because you've obviously helped make it stable enough that it's an invisible part of my workflow. 13:47:04 resulting it stump data structures completely hosed. 13:47:47 is that criticism an intrinsic part of writing clx apps, or is it just a poor architecture in stump? 13:48:36 -!- yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-3-6.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:48:49 yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-3-6.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 13:49:16 -!- gilez_ [~gdmalet@tux.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:47 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:06 Fade: its bad architecture, basically all event handlers, ie map-window, destroy-window, withdraw, restore, etc etc, need to be prepared that any (xlib:something (window-xwin win)) will throw, and use handler-bind or unwind-protect, to ensure that data structures are not hosed. 13:50:44 -!- ignas__ is now known as ignas 13:51:17 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-zjskaysgtygtjctd] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:53:12 LiamH [~healy@96.231.218.107] has joined #lisp 13:53:23 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:06 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:55:01 is that how xlib apps are built in C or C++? 13:55:38 -!- alama [~jessealam@stgt-5f71698e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 13:57:18 sabetts seems to have been MIA for some time. the stump repo is very quiet. 13:57:55 the last checkin to the master branch was last november. 13:58:03 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:58:05 stump has small user base, they moved it to github 13:58:54 the wiki is moved to github too. I think.. 13:58:59 is dangerousben's repo the main one? 13:59:27 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-155.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:57 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 14:00:30 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:01:02 paul0 [~paul0@189.115.61.187] has joined #lisp 14:02:22 sabetts' github branch is identical to the one I was grabbing from savannah. 14:02:49 -!- lisporu [~chatzilla@124.123.173.211] has left #lisp 14:03:01 gilez [~gdmalet@tux.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 14:03:56 Fade: but anyway, if it works for you, you don't need to fix anything. A lot of my crashes come from using different groups, one of these groups is a float group, and has an application which occasionally pops out alerts or other dialogs, ie something like "connection lost reconnecting" 14:04:13 *nod* 14:04:28 I have six main groups, but none of them are float groups. 14:04:44 which is mapped for like 0.2 seconds and immediately gone. That, plus being on 4-cpu box, really pushes stump internals, thats why it crashed so much for me 14:05:08 Zhivago: you should know better. Hint: reader macros. It's even worse than reader macros in perl. And javascript has enough pitfalls that even without reader macros you cannot interpret statically an expression without having evaluated the previous ones. 14:06:01 Fade: heh I can send you test.c that crashes stump 100%.. All it does is shows and hides gtk window 10 times in a loop 14:07:09 :/ 14:08:49 pjb: what do you mean by "interpret statically" ? 14:14:51 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:58 Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.235] has joined #lisp 14:18:16 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:35 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.205] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 14:20:37 is there some kind of swank implementation for C? 14:20:54 is there a repl for C? 14:21:15 dnolen [~user@cpe-69-203-204-197.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:21:22 http://neugierig.org/software/c-repl/ 14:23:14 justinleitgeb [~jsl@pool-108-21-66-254.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:11 benkard [~benkard@138.246.84.210] has joined #lisp 14:25:17 clint too, or something cling maybe, from CERN, IIRC 14:25:29 http://root.cern.ch/drupal/content/cling 14:25:36 didn't try it yet, though 14:27:42 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:28:11 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:10 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@87.173.121.166] has joined #lisp 14:33:04 there's also gdb 14:33:22 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:33:24 kinda repl-like. 14:34:23 s'all off topic anyhow. 14:37:14 -!- getoffmalawn [~getoffmal@14-202-66-99.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:37:41 -!- ice_ [~ice@123.114.58.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:37:48 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:40:36 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has joined #lisp 14:42:15 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.150.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:42:22 fe[nl]ix: interpreting an expression means finding the meaning of that expression. 14:43:05 -!- pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:44:48 pjb: neither can you in CL, given macros 14:45:26 jcazevedo_ [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 14:45:47 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 14:46:40 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:46:41 -!- jcazevedo_ is now known as jcazevedo 14:46:53 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 14:47:05 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.82.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:39 punee_ [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:41 -!- punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:41 -!- punee_ is now known as punee 14:48:05 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.82.19] has joined #lisp 14:49:59 sanjoyd [sanjoyd@nat/google/x-fmqcowoydhhbosaj] has joined #lisp 14:56:34 -!- sanjoyd [sanjoyd@nat/google/x-fmqcowoydhhbosaj] has quit [Changing host] 14:56:34 sanjoyd [sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 14:58:28 -!- nha 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[~milanj_@93-86-188-208.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:03:14 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:03:16 -!- yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-3-6.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:22 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 16:05:56 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@166.137.83.2] has joined #lisp 16:06:54 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:08:41 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-011-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:14 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:10:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-211.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:10:26 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-212.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:11:36 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 16:12:53 Is there a "best practices" about using reader-macros to avoid name collisions with others? 16:13:14 minion: please tell patrickwonders about named-readtables 16:13:15 patrickwonders: please look at named-readtables: Named-Readtables is a language extension library that provides a namespace for readtables akin to the already-existing namespace of packages. http://www.cliki.net/named-readtables 16:14:45 -!- Suthe [~Suthe@99.Red-79-156-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:57 yea but what does it do ? 16:14:59 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 16:15:02 is loading that lib enough ? 16:15:11 or do you have to setup something toplevel or call ? 16:15:32 reading documentation is enough 16:15:37 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 16:15:57 Reading now. Thanks! 16:16:32 patrickwonders: but better still, abstain from using reader-macros as much as possible 16:17:17 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-155.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:18:16 If I could make macros that got hold of stuff in #| ... |#, I'd do that. Otherwise, I need to be craftier. 16:18:37 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:18:42 what do you mean, got hold of stuff in #|? 16:20:56 The reader chucks that stuff out, right? I want to collect it when it's inside some macro invocations. 16:22:18 Or provide a terse reader-macro only needed in such places. 16:22:35 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:22:47 do you want to save comments in a config file? 16:23:40 zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-163-13.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 16:24:24 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-155.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:46 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:25:31 What I want is a nice way to combine TDD (Test Driven Development) with LP (Literate Programming). Still nascent on exactly how I'd want it to play out, but part of it seems to be the need for documentation anywhere. 16:25:58 patrickwonders: you could go for docstrings instead. 16:25:59 Or at least strewn throughout test declarations. 16:27:15 pkhuong: Only if I'm okay with enforcing where docs can go in relation to code... 16:28:03 Or, if I forgo the Lisp reader and read things myself... 16:28:26 -!- zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-163-13.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 16:31:35 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-155.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:34:27 yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-3-162.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 16:35:31 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:37:08 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-23-101.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:27 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 16:38:37 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-195-21.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:38:38 -!- gigamonkey_ is now known as gigamonkey 16:39:11 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 16:39:45 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@166.137.83.2] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:39:54 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-011-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:42:29 -!- yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-3-162.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:45 yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-3-162.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 16:43:39 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 16:47:43 -!- yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-3-162.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:47:58 yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-3-162.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 16:48:50 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 16:50:46 -!- harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:51:02 ddelony [U2FsdGVkX1@ma.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 16:53:59 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 16:54:24 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@139.82.240.154] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:56:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-211.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:56:28 about literate programming with lisp btw 16:57:17 after trying to make example document with .org, half of my screen is #+begin_src #+end_src lines.. (not offtopic, lisp stuff coming) 16:57:34 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:58:04 k0001 [~k0001@200.70.5.75] has joined #lisp 16:58:42 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-213-196-215-242.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:58:57 so imho for lisp, easy way to separate plain text from code snippets, would be a ;; comment line, followed by balanced s-exp 16:59:05 ;; here is how you do something 16:59:15 Suthe [~Suthe@99.Red-79-156-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:19 (example (of (doing-something))) 17:00:06 minimum markup, high readability, easy to write too 17:02:37 Kaisyu [~Kaisyu@183.109.110.71] has joined #lisp 17:03:03 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:07 AeroNotix [~xeno@aeas27.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:06:05 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has joined #lisp 17:06:14 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by 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[~phil@dsl-244-49-236.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:36:13 in SBCL, if i create an association list using pairlis, is the results always going to be reversed. I mean is always (pairlis '(a b) '(1 2)) => ((b . 2) (a . 1))? 18:36:21 -!- benkard [~benkard@138.246.84.210] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:39:03 i looked at the code and that's the case, nevermind! 18:43:40 clhs pairlis 18:43:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_pairli.htm 18:44:12 and the answer is "no" 18:44:18 -!- yakov_ [~androirc@ip-83-149-3-162.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:44:32 k0001 [~k0001@141.255.188.28] has joined #lisp 18:44:55 -!- k0001 [~k0001@141.255.188.28] has quit [Client Quit] 18:45:35 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-226-65.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:57 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:47:09 it says they can appear in either a forward or backward order and assuming that they are new association lists and not attached to an existing association list for SBCL they are always backward 18:47:35 what if i change them tomorrow to be forward, what would you do? 18:49:14 (defun pairlis (k v &option alist) (nconc (mapcar (function cons) k v) alist)) 18:50:04 (defun pairlis (k v &option alist) (if (zerop (random 2)) (nconc (mapcar (function cons) k v) alist) (loop for c in k for u in v do (push (cons c u) alist) finally (return alist)))) 18:50:52 s/option/optional 18:51:58 i am working on a specific onetime case and looking at what the code does serves me alright at the moment. but i see your point, so in general i should not depend on the order since the spec does not enforce it? 18:52:23 -!- nauar [~Grunt@224.Red-193-152-141.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 18:52:27 Right. 18:53:11 Or, if your algorithm requires a specific behavior, you will have to implement the function yourself as above. 18:53:40 Using (shadow 'pairlis) or (defpackage  :shadow :pairlis) before. 18:55:43 thanks, i will probably make a note and do the shadowing in case i have to use this code in the future 18:56:17 nicdev: pairlis is used to build a-lists. If you have only one entry per key in the alist, the order doesn't matter. 18:56:42 nicdev: so what the spec says about pairlis, is that you should better have unique keys in the first argument. 18:57:09 (the new key can already be in the old alist). 18:59:23 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:00:26 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:02:42 lobo_d_b_ [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has joined #lisp 19:02:56 -!- Suthe [~Suthe@99.Red-79-156-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Suthe] 19:03:10 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 19:03:37 -!- alexander__b [~alexander@140.100.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:03:41 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:06:42 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:06:48 alexander__b [~alexander@140.100.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:07:56 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:57 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.70] has joined #lisp 19:09:26 (hello 'world) 19:10:02 (ffi:hello 'world) ? 19:10:22 hee-hee 19:11:35 also hurrah! i found use for &aux 19:12:08 There's no good use for it. really. 19:12:53 defstruct is a good use, dangit. 19:13:26 mhr [60fd6497@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.253.100.151] has joined #lisp 19:13:27 sykopomp: this 19:14:17 What books should I read to be able to understand this: http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/circumscription/node4.html? 19:14:51 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:15:39 mhr, a discrete logic book might help 19:15:54 sykopomp: an acceptable use. 19:15:56 as would graphs, spaces, etc. type math 19:16:04 they're used in all sorts of places 19:16:08 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@116-40-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 19:16:21 thank you 19:17:06 I really want to be able to program AIs, but I'm at a high school level education level, so I couldn't exactly go very far without knowing the math involved 19:17:27 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 19:17:36 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-104-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:17:40 group theory might also be of some help 19:17:52 i think that's what it's called...been a while since i've messed with academia 19:19:19 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:26 alagabes_ [~me@37.235.48.165] has joined #lisp 19:19:39 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:20:02 mhr: You might want something like Tom Mitchell's Machine Learning book, then, to get a good base for general AI stuff. 19:20:25 Hello, let's I've a package where i define varible (via (defvar...)) how can I export this varible outside the package? 19:20:27 okay, thanks 19:20:34 (sbcl) 19:20:48 alagabes_: (defpackage foo (:export :variable)) 19:20:54 hmm 19:20:56 you export names (symbols), not variables 19:20:58 and note, you're exporting symbols, not variables 19:20:59 tried that 19:21:04 try harder 19:21:07 j 19:22:19 alagabes_: (defpackage "P1" (:use "CL") (:export "*VAR*")) (in-package "P1") (defvar *var* 52) (in-package "CL-USER") p1:*var* 19:23:03 what is the difference between the top-down and bottom-up approaches to strong AI? 19:23:15 Mu 19:23:22 nha [~prefect@g230119229.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:23:27 is there an AI freenode channel, by the way? 19:23:37 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:25:23 nope 19:25:32 iLogical [~iLogical@177.96.179.153] has joined #lisp 19:27:14 -!- schmx [~marcus@c83-254-190-169.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 19:27:14 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 19:27:23 mhr: there's a channel full of AIs though. and you're on it ^^ 19:27:31 mhr: Have you tried #ai ? 19:27:58 stassats`: your method doesn't work with defvar (defpackage expre :export income) (inpackage :expore) (defvar *income* nil) 19:28:26 schmx: I did after I asked my question, and it wouldn't let me in for some reason 19:28:49 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 19:28:58 "[15:28] == #ai Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services " 19:28:58 alagabes_: you didn't export the symbol *income*. 19:29:19 alagabes_: you make too many typo. Go learn how to type without error. 19:29:22 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.79.89] has joined #lisp 19:29:37 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:29:40 mhr: Right. You need to register your nick. 19:30:03 mhr: /msg nickserv help 19:30:04 pjb: so i should do :export :*income* ? 19:30:22 mhr: /msg nickserv register 19:30:27 export and income ..... 19:30:28 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129018100.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:30:33 sound so opposite..... 19:30:36 lol 19:30:37 alagabes_: that's what we're saying. 19:30:45 alagabes_: but first, you should correct all typoes. 19:31:41 thank you, I got it registered 19:32:10 pjb: kewl, now it works 19:32:36 :export :*rtfm* .... (foo expre:*rtfm*) 19:32:48 -!- mhr [60fd6497@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.253.100.151] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:33:36 meiji11 [~user@96.51.60.120] has joined #lisp 19:34:43 -!- mindCrime [~prhodes@c-67-162-98-95.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:35:07 -!- railsmonk [~dsabanin@195.208.164.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:36:49 mhr_ [60fd6497@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.253.100.151] has joined #lisp 19:38:46 hello, I'm back again. I registered, but I still can't connect to #ai. My problem is that when I connect, it gives me this message: "[15:34] == #ai Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services", so then I do this: "/msg NickServ identify ", with my information filled in. It identifies me as mhr, but I'm not redirected anywhere. Can you help please? 19:39:31 After identifiying with nickserv, /join #ai again. 19:39:48 I think I did that, but I'll try again 19:40:06 okay, nvm 19:40:08 haha, thanks 19:40:09 -!- mhr_ [60fd6497@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.253.100.151] has quit [Client Quit] 19:41:27 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 19:42:19 -!- flashback [fb@lysergide.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:42:19 flashback [fb@bitchx/dev/flashback] has joined #lisp 19:45:37 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:46:40 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:59 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-029-184.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 19:48:07 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-188-208.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:48:45 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:49:07 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 19:49:37 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seconds] 23:11:19 maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 23:11:25 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 23:13:45 herbieB [~herbie@s15434998.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 23:14:03 Is there an in place version of dpb? 23:14:51 Oh, doh, setf ldb 23:16:26 Yep. 23:17:47 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:19:24 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 23:20:00 smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has joined #lisp 23:22:59 ignas__ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 23:25:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:27:48 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:28:18 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@235.177.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:28:31 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:36:06 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit 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