00:00:52 dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-183-188.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:12 ikki [~ikki@189.139.15.119] has joined #lisp 00:03:38 -!- CrazyEddy [~impoveris@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:13:10 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.160.5] has joined #lisp 00:13:18 superflit [~superflit@65-128-56-36.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:19 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:14:20 beaky [~beaky@92.96.99.125] has joined #lisp 00:16:14 CrazyEddy [~pulicoid@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 00:16:17 alexander__b [~alexander@140.100.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 00:16:47 anyone have a vimrc line for au FileType lisp? 00:16:53 aka post your vim options 00:17:49 alias vim='emacs' 00:17:57 Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-250-130.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:19 I don't really like emacs on any level, and have no interest in diving into a holy war ATM. 00:18:47 alias vim='echo Segmentation fault' is more useful, imo. 00:19:23 alexander__b: it's less about holy wars and more about emacs being the most useful tool for developing lisp code. 00:19:30 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:20:22 sykopomp: well, I am a vim user, and will probably be it for a long time. I have no desire in using emacs ATM, thus my request for tips on *vimrc*. thank you for your input. it is duly noted. 00:20:56 I still use vi to edit config files on my server ... and I used vim for, oh, 15 years as my primary editor 00:21:13 KDr2 [~kdr2@221.219.115.106] has joined #lisp 00:21:24 and even when I started using emacs, I used viper mode 00:21:27 alexander__b: embrace the enlightenment of St. IGNUcius. There is no need to continue living in the darkness. 00:21:56 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:21:59 now, well, I use both. 00:22:39 sykopomp: I already have an operating system, thank you. 00:22:45 and nano if git decides that is the editor to use before I set my git preferences 00:23:42 alexander__b: Why edit text when you can manipulate the very fabric of abstraction? 00:24:23 the very essence of lambda, etc. 00:24:25 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 00:25:34 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has joined #lisp 00:25:35 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has quit [Changing host] 00:25:35 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 00:26:03 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Client Quit] 00:26:09 http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/welcome-to-gnu-emacs.html :) 00:26:19 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 00:26:25 SrPx [b162432c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.98.67.44] has joined #lisp 00:26:45 *maybe here* So I noticed calling a function with a wrong number of arguments is a error. Can I change this behavior so that instead it calls (partial func my_args) ? 00:27:46 SrPx: not exactly, but you can make the function get the undeclared arguments as a list 00:28:05 (defun f (&rest args) ...) 00:28:05 p_l: hmm 00:28:28 you can, of course, make use of that (or macros, etc.) to make your own currying 00:29:07 not currying, partial-application! :D 00:29:51 drewc: isn't what he's talking about (automatically creating and returning unary functions) actual currying? 00:30:40 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.160.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:25 well, it depends on what he is talking about. 00:31:34 p_l: let me se... (defun sumTwo [a] (partial (lambda [a,b] (+ a b)) a)) 00:31:45 SrPx: wrong language. 00:31:46 this will work, I guess? 00:31:49 no 00:32:02 sykopomp: I'm learning many atm, sorry. It's () right? 00:32:16 *drewc* looks to make sure he is in #lisp still 00:32:32 o.o 00:32:35 SrPx: I don't even know which language you're asking questions about, but it's certainly not common lisp. 00:32:53 SrPx: and this channel is only for Common Lisp. 00:33:06 not again. sigh, sorry 00:33:25 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:33:26 no prob. If you have CL-related questions, please bring them up, though! :) 00:33:38 alexander__b: it was not so much about a emacs vs vim thing, just that the majority of CL hacks, around here at least, use emacs as their lisp development environment 00:33:40 I'm asking if this is possible in cl actually 00:33:53 alexander__b: ...using the SLIME mode 00:33:55 as i'm surfacing many languages at this point, this is why the confuse. 00:34:15 SrPx: maybe that's a problem? 00:34:35 (defun fn-sum (number) (lambda (&rest args) (apply #'+ number args))) 00:34:39 it's not just about text editing afterall, it's nice to have some value add when developing software 00:34:46 sykopomp: I've learned more then 5 languages just to notice they were not what I was looking for... so this time I must be sure 00:34:57 SrPx: (defun make-adder (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y)) 00:35:04 or what drewc said is more general :) 00:35:21 SrPx: ah yes. CL is, in fact, what you're looking for. 00:35:43 please clear your mind of whatever other filth tainted your current and future knowledge of Lisp. 00:35:59 sykopomp: I just fall in love with Haskell's syntax ((+ 2) 3) is 5...(+ 2) is a function. + too... 00:36:09 *drewc* new 5 languages about ... oh ... 1987 or so ... and he is still a young man! 00:36:17 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 00:36:24 drewc: wow heh 00:36:29 sykopomp: this is nice 00:36:53 SrPx: How do you automatically curry in a language with n-ary functions? 00:37:05 *DataLinkDroid* wonders if drewc new how to spell in 1987 ;-) 00:37:09 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:37:52 alexander__b: fwiw i have used lisp programming environments that were much better than emacs, and i'm an emacs lover who's been using it for 20 years. lisp programming really only got good in emacs when SLIME came up, and even then it took a while to get good. 00:37:53 sykopomp: not sure ? I'm looking a language that has this kind of syntax for functions but that is not as strongly typed as haskell 00:38:06 that i did ... now I don't and have to look things up and always forget the 'k' 00:38:33 hrr4 [~hrr4@c-69-245-141-254.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:37 :) 00:38:42 SrPx: If you really like those patterns, you can write some code to make those kinds of expression. 00:38:59 me, I'm perfectly happy using alexandria's CURRY/RCURRY manually. 00:39:16 lemonodor which one would those be out of curiosity? 00:39:20 alexandria's? 00:39:32 kmxx: The Macintosh Common Lisp environment 00:39:55 SrPx: alexandria is a Lisp library that contains a lot of nice utilities, including CURRY/RCURRY (which could be more accurately named PARTIAL/RPARTIAL) 00:39:55 whoa, I was pretty sure I saw somebody calling sykopomp "dickopomp" or something 00:40:13 sykopomp: oh I see 00:40:18 lmgt 00:40:39 zmv: I get that a lot. It's a common mistake. 00:42:08 SrPx: alexandria's wonderful, and probably the most-used CL library out there :) 00:42:29 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:01 TDJACR [~TDJACR@lilug/member/tdjacr] has joined #lisp 00:45:34 sykopomp: man choosing a lisp is the most hard thing on the language 00:45:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:43 -!- harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:45:48 ignas__ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 00:45:52 SrPx: It's not hard at all! The choice is obvious, and you've come to the right place. 00:46:07 sykopomp: I like this heh 00:46:17 SrPx: that's not syntax, that's semantics. 00:46:28 Ralith: what? 00:46:33 17:35:59 < SrPx> sykopomp: I just fall in love with Haskell's syntax ((+ 2) 3) is 5...(+ 2) is a function. + too... 00:47:00 it's a bit of both, really. 00:47:06 no, you can do that with any syntax 00:47:17 not in standard CL's syntax, you can't! 00:47:27 not using CL's semantics for that syntax :P 00:47:39 EYEROLL 00:47:45 lol 00:47:48 I'm eyerolling you so hard right now, Ralith. 00:47:55 how hard are you eyerolling sykopomp 00:48:10 so hard I had to turn my chair around to read this through the back of my head. 00:48:21 that is NOT HARD ENOUGH. 00:48:26 I expect better. 00:48:41 so hard my optic nerve is now attached directly to my pupils. 00:49:30 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 00:49:35 SrPx: why don't you want strong typing? 00:50:42 Ralith: because back when I was learning programming I needed months to do things in C++ that I can do in a day now, because C++ limited every single thing I tried to do with it's type checking and templating system 00:50:54 SrPx: what does C++ have to do with anything? 00:50:55 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:27 SrPx: don't worry, Common Lisp is strongly typed. 00:51:34 Ralith: you asked why I don't want strong typing, the answer is because C++ (dont know the word in english, "scared me") from using them 00:51:38 but also dynamic. 00:51:57 SrPx: and then I asked why your reply was nonsensical. 00:52:32 now I see that it is because you generalized your experience with C++ to the set of all strongly-typed languages. 00:52:42 Ralith: yes, this is what I'm saying 00:52:46 as sykopomp says, CL is strongly typed. 00:52:50 perhaps you want PHP? 00:52:57 no way, it is horrible... 00:53:21 I'm not sure what's to blame on the fact I could not use C++ (besides me) 00:53:29 I just want something that I can do stuff fast 00:53:59 SrPx: you probably mean static styping where you have to declare the type of everything before your use it 00:54:08 DataLinkDroid: possible 00:54:13 that does not accurately describe static typing. 00:54:14 s/styping/typing/ 00:54:53 Ralith: I wish I remembered what problems you ran into when doing partial eval, btw. 00:55:17 ralith: quite possibly. not trying to be a language lawyer here 00:55:43 sykopomp: actually, I solved the immediate problem I was having 00:56:07 Ralith: sweet. So it was pretty much the fexpr typing that screwed things over, in the end? 00:56:12 nope 00:56:22 Is it screwed at all? 00:56:31 not as far as I can tell! 00:56:41 fexprs are backburnered in a pretty major way, but I'd like to return to them. 00:56:56 for example, I realized I could write a function like this: (map check-collision (cartesian bodies bodies)) in some lisps. this needed several lines of code and thought in C++ 00:57:16 so I just thought a little bit and wondered if maybe I could write everything I ever coded in a one liner like that 00:57:22 if I just defined the right functions before 00:57:22 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has joined #lisp 00:57:24 I'm applying a halfway solution inspired by shutt's design to get most of the immediate practical advantages for much less impl effort in the short term. 00:57:25 Ralith: I think it would be fun to start playing with them again. Did you ever put your solution to code? 00:57:48 clarify? 00:58:07 macros with explicit environment lookup 00:58:17 that is, symbol -> binding resolution is performed explicitly 00:58:32 but macroexpansion remains semantically static 00:59:26 this enables tidy hygene management without excessive constraint while still being simple to implement. 00:59:52 that loses the 'purity' of shutt's system, though, no? (and it loses some of the neat runtime tricks) 01:00:27 I haven't implemented a complete partial evaluator for fexpr expansion, but I have an increasingly solid idea of the right approach 01:00:30 yeah, it's less clean 01:00:35 I miss the single-phase semantics 01:00:40 but I'm not sure it's less *useful* 01:01:04 oh, I solved the module system problem re: mutable bindings too, btw 01:01:10 well, you can't use fexprs as modules or objects anymore. 01:01:16 but maybe /q is better at this point. 01:01:20 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:01:21 probably 01:02:26 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:10 zitterbewegung [~user@c-67-163-71-109.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:15 Hello. 01:06:38 -!- zitterbewegung is now known as r2q2 01:09:07 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:09:24 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:50 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:12:02 elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 01:12:10 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:13:23 -!- superflit [~superflit@65-128-56-36.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:15:07 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:20:24 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.15.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:24:37 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:30:21 -!- hohum_ is now known as hohum` 01:31:13 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-iohdeyjwlmxrysjc] has joined #lisp 01:31:41 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 01:32:04 Croms [~Croms@dhcp-089-098-010-207.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 01:35:04 ikki [~ikki@189.195.2.181] has joined #lisp 01:41:35 -!- elliottcable is now known as tees 01:42:57 springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has joined #lisp 01:46:38 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-152-156.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:47:31 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-utsozrweipckknfw] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 01:47:33 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:47:55 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 01:49:50 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-152-156.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 01:51:37 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.225] has joined #lisp 01:51:59 so 01:52:05 just wondering sykopomp and cl people 01:52:09 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:21 "yes" 01:52:28 what does cl doesn't have that clojure and racket does ? 01:52:33 and the opps 01:53:01 hard to say... but for clojure - no dependency on JVM and related issues (have you seen a stacktrace from clojure?) 01:53:02 superflit [~superflit@75-166-66-3.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:22 Common Lisp lacks a j, among other things, and it lacks a clever conspiracy pun. 01:54:25 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.218] has joined #lisp 01:55:15 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2DF08.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:56:24 -!- hrr4 [~hrr4@c-69-245-141-254.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hrr4] 01:56:53 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has joined #lisp 01:58:11 beaky_ [~beaky@92.96.99.125] has joined #lisp 01:58:19 -!- TDJACR [~TDJACR@lilug/member/tdjacr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:58:26 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 01:59:22 TDJACR [~TDJACR@lilug/member/tdjacr] has joined #lisp 02:02:01 -!- beaky [~beaky@92.96.99.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:04:02 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-183-188.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:05:25 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Ping timeout: 619 seconds] 02:05:25 tomaw_ [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 02:06:07 -!- ignas__ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:06:14 -!- hohum` [~user@adsl-074-186-199-086.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:43 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:53 sykopomp: a j? 02:09:06 Clo_j_ure. You see? 02:09:07 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:09:37 common... lisp... clojure... cc ll oo ... 02:09:40 hey you are wrong 02:09:47 it doesnt have a u, r and e too 02:09:56 but the j is the most important. 02:10:00 why 02:10:59 <|3b|> otherwise you'd confuse it with clozure or closure? 02:11:31 indeed 02:12:37 It's similar to the difference between poison and poisson. 02:13:10 Like fugu. 02:13:47 hahaha 02:13:59 -!- Croms [~Croms@dhcp-089-098-010-207.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 02:18:02 -!- zmv [~zmv@186.204.123.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:19:33 mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has joined #lisp 02:23:18 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:24:03 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 02:25:19 -!- mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has left #lisp 02:25:33 -!- r2q2 [~user@c-67-163-71-109.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:25:57 -!- ered [~ered@108-201-125-162.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:28:55 ered [~ered@108-201-125-162.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:17 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:31:34 pnq [~nick@ACA20446.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:37:23 chu [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:37:23 -!- chu [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 02:37:23 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 02:40:55 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 02:43:42 is it possible to make class callable by func and apply 02:43:47 class instance 02:43:55 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:44:19 ,clhs funcallable-instance 02:44:26 clhs funcallable-instance 02:44:31 great thanks 02:44:38 ah minion is dead 02:44:43 is that what defmethod is? 02:44:58 generic function created by defmethod 02:45:06 I don't remember 02:45:13 it *can* be, I guess 02:45:18 yes 02:45:22 and with full MOP, probably is 02:45:31 <|3b|> i think it is conceptually, not sure if it is required to be implemented that way or not 02:58:09 -!- wingy [~wingie@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has left #lisp 02:59:08 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:00:08 saage [~saage@200.195.179.34] has joined #lisp 03:00:09 -!- saage [~saage@200.195.179.34] has quit [Changing host] 03:00:09 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 03:03:17 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-falzcevvvjljnaxl] has joined #lisp 03:05:02 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-falzcevvvjljnaxl] has quit [Client Quit] 03:06:49 Yuuhi` [benni@p54839E10.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:38 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A20C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:13:52 -!- 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[~nachtwand@p57AD7577.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:13 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.204.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:20:52 -!- nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:21:20 ninuzzo [~ant@dynamic-adsl-94-38-110-115.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 06:23:58 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has quit [] 06:24:17 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.204.90] has joined #lisp 06:24:20 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:24:52 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.204.90] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 06:25:21 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.204.90] has joined #lisp 06:28:40 -!- tcr [~tcr@46.184.244.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:30:56 (A friend of mine is asking.) Do you guys know any game programmed on Lisp?] 06:31:00 Something I can show him. 06:32:34 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 06:32:40 <|3b|> lispgames.org/index.php/Main_Page#Lisp_Games_In_The_Wild 06:34:24 Harag [~phil@dsl-243-2-126.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:36:41 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.59.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:37:15 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.197.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:31 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD7577.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:40:37 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:40:37 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:40:37 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:41:10 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA20446.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:45:35 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:47:44 deego [~user@unaffiliated/deego] has joined #lisp 06:48:18 In the middle of a massive local project build, I saw this: I have never seen this with clbuild before. "failed to find the TRUENAME of ~A" #P"/home/deego/clbuild/systems/packages.lisp". 06:48:18 06:48:40 Maybe it involves symlinks in some tricky fashion? 06:49:43 <|3b|> yeah, looks like something put a real file under systems/ instead of a symlink 06:50:02 I see. :( 06:50:27 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:52:58 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 06:53:32 I will try a fresh install of clbuild. Thanks for your hints, Zhivago and |3b| 06:54:06 <|3b|> probably not too hard to fix it if just one file 06:54:25 I tried to skip it. It followed with tons of similar problems. :( 06:54:39 hyoyoung [~hyoyoung@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has joined #lisp 06:55:00 |3b|: hmm sure thanks but 06:55:14 I guess there are probably many famous games using Lisp somewhere on their development? 06:55:14 <|3b|> might also try quicklisp (and/or clbuild2) unless you are actively modifying most of the libraries you use 06:55:14 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.148.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:55:23 For example I've heard Mario 64 did it 06:55:26 And that would be awesome. 06:55:32 *|3b|* suspects not too many, game devs are fairly conservativ :( 06:56:07 haha [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has joined #lisp 06:57:43 -!- kanru [~kanru@84.124.36.50.static.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:59:19 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-iohdeyjwlmxrysjc] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:00:09 <|3b|> though i suppose you might find some mirai usage in slightly older games, which might count 07:01:03 hmm 07:01:44 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-!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:04:03 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:04:37 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:20 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.204.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:07:34 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-55-240.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:08:48 ASau [~user@95-27-166-36.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:09:16 __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:11:33 -!- _main_0 [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:12:07 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-jqbqjxtisnanqbvi] has joined #lisp 08:12:37 -!- mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-165-159.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:13:11 weird, I see "invalid keyword argument: :SERVE-EVENTS" errors during calls to sbcl 1.0.54's sb-bsd-sockets:socket-make-stream 08:15:19 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-222-211.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:18:06 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:19:17 __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:36 peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 08:21:22 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-90-147.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:22:54 cheezus [~Adium@75-119-242-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 08:23:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:23:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:27:23 hm, that's odd 08:27:43 -!- ninuzzo [~ant@dynamic-adsl-94-38-110-115.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:29:09 DrForr [~jgoff@d149031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 08:29:38 what happened to alexandria:displace-arrays? 08:29:41 er 08:29:42 array 08:30:03 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0155.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:30:23 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:30:31 when trying to connect to an sqlite database, plain-odbc gives me the following error: "[unixODBC][Driver Manager]Data source name not found, and no default driver specified, error code 0, State: IM002." I don't have a clue where to start looking anymore. unixODBC knows sqlite. 08:30:56 poisonarms [~poisonarm@cpe-66-68-80-227.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:31:26 all right, (stupid) problem solved: someone else had (apt-get) installed an older version of sbcl, and the other one (manually installed) loaded the old contrib libraries 08:31:38 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:32:10 mvilleneuve: that has bitten me in the past too 08:33:11 kanru [~kanru@233.Red-88-7-119.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:59 ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 08:37:33 Levenson1 [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 08:37:34 -!- Levenson1 [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has left #lisp 08:42:55 jingtao [~jingtaozf@220.191.186.26] has joined #lisp 08:48:22 looks like i need something in /etc/odbc.ini 08:51:43 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 08:52:53 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:53:19 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 08:53:28 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 08:55:20 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:56:43 yup, you need to add the database to /etc/odbc.ini, apparently. sadly, i don't see how plain-odbc would allow me to find the schemas in that database :/ 08:57:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:57:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:58:18 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 08:58:25 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-245-201.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:59:11 springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has joined #lisp 08:59:29 this kind-of sucks 09:00:16 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:02 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 09:03:20 nha [~prefect@f052064248.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:08:48 -!- cheezus [~Adium@75-119-242-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:09:55 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:10:12 cheezus [~Adium@75-119-242-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 09:11:58 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:19:05 -!- nha [~prefect@f052064248.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:20:23 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-024-074-028-225.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:23:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:25:04 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-176-200-144.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:28:21 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-233-81.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:31:03 -!- cheezus [~Adium@75-119-242-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:33:26 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:33:30 Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has joined #lisp 09:34:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-98.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:34:47 nha [~prefect@g229044026.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:35:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-98.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:37:43 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:38:17 'morning 09:39:13 -!- Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has left #lisp 09:40:31 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@74.20.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:40:41 I know you hate this kind of question but please help me deciding what to learn, CL or Clojure? I'm not sure I get the differences very well. 09:41:20 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:41:24 learn both 09:41:35 Do you want to use java libraries? 09:41:48 then you will be able to advise the next person who comes along asking about which of CL and Clojure to learn 09:41:50 SrPx: 09:41:50 -!- tcr [~tcr@94.76.60.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:42:15 SrPx: if the question is "what should i learn first" and you ask this channel, then start with common lisp 09:42:23 Zhivago: not really if CL provides all libraries I would need 09:42:51 H4ns: thanks, but why? What are the differences exactly? 09:43:26 differences are varied and many. clojure is inspired by cl, but diverges in many things 09:43:35 SrPx: Do you want to use CL libraries? 09:44:15 SrPx: Hickey has given many talks (recorded) about these differences, he can tell you about them way better than anyone here (: 09:44:38 SrPx: your question cannot be answered precisely. cl and clojure are two very different languages. 09:44:59 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0155.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:46 hmm 09:46:54 Zhivago: yes? 09:47:30 SrPx: Well, then use CL! 09:47:54 eeer, I mean, if I used CL I would probably need them 09:49:02 Zhivago: things I would probably need on this matter: a way to deal with bitmaps (a full featured graphics library words), 3d would be good, sockets, some geometry math, if possible, a way to translate my code to JavaScript (I know either do). 09:49:21 Probably both has all those, am I right? 09:49:27 ninuzzo [~ant@dynamic-adsl-94-38-109-83.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 09:49:29 works* 09:49:46 -!- gekko_ [~jjk@78.157.103.6] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 09:50:54 Given those requirements, I'd consider using javascript. 09:50:59 <|3b|> opticl, cl-opengl, iolib, sb-cga, parenscript? 09:51:11 <|3b|> can't convert arbitrary CL code to javascript though 09:51:38 -!- nha [~prefect@g229044026.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:51:43 Bronsa [~Bronco@host202-174-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:51:55 gekko_ [~jjk@78.157.103.6] has joined #lisp 09:54:41 tcr [~tcr@46.42.88.11] has joined #lisp 09:54:43 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:56:06 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 09:58:14 Zhivago: why man 10:00:56 SrPx: because javascript is basically scheme with too much syntax, and your req's sound like a specification doc for javascript. 10:01:31 anyhow, pretty much everybody here thinks that CL is the bee's knees. 10:02:02 you'd get a different set of answers in #clojure 10:02:30 although my only opinion is that clojure is great if you have to integrate with an existing java system. 10:02:40 I would otherwise choose CL 10:03:05 I would consider clojure if I need to disguise my lisp hacking in a .jar, and even then maybe ABCL would provide a better solution 10:03:14 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 10:03:17 I understand that clojure comes with some map/reduce oriented APIs, too 10:03:26 we have that with lparallel and some other libs 10:03:30 Fade: I know, this makes it a little bit harder to ask about the actual differences 10:03:37 but its okay 10:03:45 the differences are primarily related to the JVM. 10:03:50 Fade: basically I had the same question some weeks ago and I picked CL 10:03:55 and I'm now happy I did :) 10:04:18 clojure doesn't do tail call optimisation, but it has a regime of trully immutable datastructures that underline its approach to multiprocessing. 10:04:53 if you already know java, you'll probably be very happy with clojure. 10:05:48 dim: hm... 10:05:51 I haven't spent much time with abcl, but I know it has been making great jumps on things like threading and MOP support. 10:06:02 abcl? 10:07:18 armed bear common lisp 10:07:20 nha [~prefect@f052224121.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:07:27 a common lisp implementation on top of the JVM. 10:08:00 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 10:08:12 SrPx: Do you know what you want to use lisp? 10:08:19 er, why, that is. 10:08:42 Because if you don't know why you want to use lisp, then it doesn't really matter -- just pick one at random. 10:09:07 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:20 I've learned many programming languages and I see many flaws in all of them. I program all day, so I'm looking for a language that I can stick in for the rest of my life and build all the code core I'll be using 10:09:29 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@74.20.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:09:41 CL is ideal for that, in my opinion. 10:10:04 I have thousands of lines in JS, Python, C++... but I can't handle the problems they impose naturally 10:10:27 I used to regularly work with pythin, C, and JS and I've reorganised my life so I work almost exclusively in CL these days. 10:10:28 Fade: yea it really looks like it is 10:10:56 It's a large language that encourages multiparadigm approaches to problem solving. 10:11:12 it's fast, and the development tools are very good. 10:11:36 Fade: yes, this is what I want. 10:11:39 the libraries that exist are on average of very high quality 10:11:51 and the ones that don't tend to be straight forward to cook yourself. 10:12:17 go forth, spend some time playing in emacs/slime supported by quicklisp, and decide for yourself. 10:12:27 sure I will 10:12:34 is there a list of CL libraries? 10:12:44 yes 10:12:52 there is a large one at cliki.net 10:13:28 when you install quicklisp, you can use it to list the available systems distributed in the stock quicklisp distribution. 10:14:02 -!- tcr [~tcr@46.42.88.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:18:15 let me see 10:27:33 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@115.241.121.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:28:01 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:28:05 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:04 tcr [~tcr@94.76.29.23] has joined #lisp 10:29:59 -!- Bronsa [~Bronco@host202-174-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:38 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@119.111.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:32:00 -!- deego [~user@unaffiliated/deego] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:12 deego [~user@unaffiliated/deego] has joined #lisp 10:37:20 kenanb [kenanb@176.54.178.235] has joined #lisp 10:38:17 Henrique [Pokerluiz@177.61.251.180] has joined #lisp 10:39:44 Hi people 10:41:05 if someone hit me back online. 10:42:47 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-245-201.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:43:00 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.245.201] has joined #lisp 10:45:15 -!- ninuzzo [~ant@dynamic-adsl-94-38-109-83.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:45:29 -!- Henrique [Pokerluiz@177.61.251.180] has left #lisp 10:45:40 Pardon? 10:45:44 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@221.219.115.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:48 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@115.241.82.118] has joined #lisp 10:46:13 -!- kenanb [kenanb@176.54.178.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:46:46 Henrique [Pokerluiz@177.61.251.180] has joined #lisp 10:46:57 -!- EyesIsOther [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:49:14 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:49:56 hey guys, gtg 10:50:05 thank you all for the words 10:50:58 -!- Henrique [Pokerluiz@177.61.251.180] has left #lisp 10:51:03 ciao 10:53:43 Henrique [Pokerluiz@177.61.251.180] has joined #lisp 10:55:21 Hi 10:56:23 -!- Henrique [Pokerluiz@177.61.251.180] has left #lisp 10:57:45 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-62.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:56 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:57:58 snearch [~snearch@f053003038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:59:17 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.215] has joined #lisp 10:59:31 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-29-160.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:59:32 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 11:07:56 -!- jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:48 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by 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joined #lisp 13:38:03 nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-225.math.tu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 13:38:08 alexander__b [~alexander@140.100.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 13:38:47 with common lisp, do people compile bytecode or machinecode? sorry if this is a stupid question, heh. 13:39:20 alexander__b: yes 13:39:30 alexander__b: no. 13:39:31 alexander__b: some implementations do one, some do the other, some do both 13:39:43 People don't compile, programs called compilers do. 13:39:46 alexander__b: the most popular implementations do machine code 13:39:51 pjb: "hah" 13:40:15 Xach: that's good to know, since I'm not much fond of bytecode, actually. are there any build systems á la GNU AutuTools for Lisp? 13:40:35 alexander__b: x86 is a byte code. 13:40:49 alexander__b: Intel processors have firmware that interpret this x86 byte code. 13:40:54 alexander__b: not that i know of. 13:41:09 Or do you think absolutely no progress has been made in 40 years (since the invention of the 4004)? 13:41:13 alexander__b: what use case are you looking for? 13:41:41 pjb: well I am, as I guess you understand regardless of how pedantic you are being currently, thinking more about what e.g. Java typically does. 13:41:57 madnificent: game programming for UNIX(-like) systems. 13:42:20 alexander__b: my point is that you should not care. 13:43:20 pjb: I don't care for how with Java you have a bunch of different JVMs (the proprietary of Oracle being the best-performing one), and there's just... too much extraneous to worry about. I like hacking -> compiling -> using. 13:43:24 alexander__b: you may want to check out #lispgames as well then. though #lisp serves general questions better. what does AutuTools handle for you? 13:43:51 alexander__b: the more so when programming in CL, since there are various implementations, so that you can defer any specific consideration to deployment time. 13:43:51 SHUPFS [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:14 alexander__b: in lisp, it's more hacking -> using. 13:44:26 Just let the implementation run your code however it wishes. 13:44:38 madnificent: AutoTools builds C(++, and probably more) projects. it handles compiling, linking, etc. it also figures out where e.g. OpenGL and SDL resides for you, and dynamically links it. 13:45:01 alexander__b: ah cool. no, i don't think we have that. it would be a valuable addition though. 13:45:51 pjb: I don't want a complicated physics engine to run differently depending on implementation. 13:46:13 That problem is mitigated by the absence of a complicated physics engine on any implementation. 13:46:15 alexander__b: lisp is vastly different than many other languages in the way you write code. so interaction with some libraries sometimes feels a bit clunky. though cl-opengl is quite nice iirc. and there's support for sdl as well. i've seen issues with finding the right library, but it's something you can overcome apparently. 13:46:42 alexander__b: that's why you want to write conforming code. 13:47:00 Xach: I have written one in C++, and as a game developer very likely will write one in Lisp if I use it for game programming. 13:48:22 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:48 There's at least one native 2d physics engine, though, even if it's in a state of semi-disrepair due to lack of use :) 13:50:12 sykopomp: shameless self-promotion, i hear? 13:50:18 BTW if anyone knows what's broken here: http://pastebin.com/viX9Aqcp - do tell. 13:50:19 you know me so well 13:50:38 clisp doesn't compile because of... something. guess I'll have to remove some configure option. 13:50:49 it seems you're trying to use gentoo. That's your first problem. 13:50:55 alexander__b: clisp is a bytecode compiler. 13:50:56 sykopomp: it is not 13:51:10 H4ns: it's what my book uses, so I'm trying it out. 13:51:19 I was about to say. 13:51:48 alexander__b: clear advise (on any system): download sbcl from sbcl.org (the binary, to start with) and use that. then install quicklisp (quicklisp.org) for all your library needs (it's freshly baked, no matter what the literature says: quicklisp is the bomb now). 13:51:51 alexander__b: SBCL and CCL are two popular and fine Lisp implementations that compile to native code. SBCL in particular is quite performant. 13:52:03 alexander__b: feel free to integrate everything nicely with gentoo and upstream it! i use it too. 13:52:08 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 13:52:27 madnificent: wait what 13:52:39 copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has joined #lisp 13:52:39 alexander__b: wait why 13:52:41 madnificent: get all of these outside of portage? that doesn't sound very unix 13:52:56 Xach: http://www.cliki.net/evol 13:53:03 alexander__b: welcome to the Lisp world. Lisp is an operating system, and it's very un-unixy. 13:53:04 alexander__b: it seems like lisp doesn't get much love from package managers. it's the only thing i install separately 13:53:06 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.104.137] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:17 madnificent: annoying to update then 13:53:22 in fact, one could argue Lisp is the antithesis of Unix. 13:53:29 madnificent: guess I'll have to write ebuilds 13:53:29 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.104.137] has joined #lisp 13:53:30 *madnificent* waits for the virtual kick fe[nl]ix will give him 13:53:44 madnificent: but you say get the binaries - is the source code not available? 13:53:56 alexander__b: i think there was something for layman for it, not sure anymore 13:54:01 alexander__b: the binaries are there to save you the hassle of compiling the compiler. 13:54:08 alexander__b: it is! but it uses lisp to build itself... 13:54:10 madnificent: I no longer use gentoo 13:54:13 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:54:38 *madnificent* can roam around freely once again \o/ 13:54:42 H4ns: OK. I was just concerned it wasn't free software. 13:55:03 -!- ninuzzo [~ant@dynamic-adsl-94-38-109-159.clienti.tiscali.it] has left #lisp 13:55:06 alexander__b: there are several free cl compilers and a few commercial ones as well. 13:55:18 madnificent: getting sbcl and quicklisp now 13:55:19 alexander__b: clisp is GPL, SBCL is largely public domain, with some MIT (or was it BSD?) bits. 13:55:28 alexander__b: good luck! 13:55:31 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0106ef.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:35 madnificent: quicklisp is only beta though? 13:55:49 alexander__b: it's solid 13:55:49 forever beta. 13:58:06 madnificent: sbcl was in portage, I'll try that version 13:58:34 alexander__b: if you run into problems and ask for help here, the first thing that you'll be asked is whether your sbcl is current. 13:58:58 1.0.55-r1 is in Portage 13:59:02 alexander__b: not current. 13:59:45 -!- LiamH [~healy@pc2.shin-miyakohotels-unet.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:59:46 gah. OK. I'll just install 57 as a user. 14:01:09 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 14:01:48 fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 28076(tid 140737353869056): 14:01:51 can't find core file at /usr/local/lib/sbcl//sbcl.core 14:01:59 doesn't look like it actually supports being installed as user, heh 14:02:10 alexander__b: it does. you did not read the instructions. 14:02:20 yes I did 14:02:46 I just have more reading to do apparently. 14:03:50 doesn't it have any nice ways of uninstalling though? can't find that in the instructions. if it did, I'd just put it in /usr/local 14:04:26 alexander__b: rm -r /usr/local/{bin/sbcl,lib/sbcl} 14:05:21 it also puts stuff in share/{doc,info,man} 14:05:40 I'm not sure I've ever actually installed the documentation 14:08:03 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:39 just installed it as root and removed the docs, since the only docs that came with it was INSTALL, NEWS, and other not very helpful things. 14:11:37 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:41 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.104.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:41 wingy [~wingie@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:26 -!- zwick [~zwick@12.200.95.45] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:14:17 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:14:24 could one say that FP is to eliminate the bad parts causing the most bugs in our systems (state) while OOP is creating a bigger problem rather than solving the main cause? 14:14:51 -!- cheezus [~Adium@75-119-242-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:00 introducing state == introducing bugs ? 14:16:54 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:17:04 so how do you use sbcl with files? do you even? I find that running it starts an interactive interpreter, which works fine. but how do you (if you at all do) run a file? i.e. like 'python file'? 14:17:10 wingy: no. OO is wrapping state and functions in small, independant and debuggable parts. 14:17:20 cheezus [~Adium@75-119-242-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:17:22 alexander__b: sbcl --script file 14:17:28 alexander__b: what book do you use to learn lisp? 14:17:31 alexander__b: but you never do that. 14:17:32 alexander__b: I usually write my code in files and send it to CL with a keystroke in my editor. 14:17:34 alexander__b: but that's not the way you'll usually end up working with lisp 14:17:38 alexander__b: at least, not until "deployment". 14:17:56 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 14:17:56 wingy: a bank account has state. 14:18:02 and often not even then 14:18:09 H4ns: Land of Lisp. it uses CLISP, but according to everyone in here I should use sbcl. 14:18:10 pjb: but how can it be testable when you have to test an infinite combination of method calls? 14:18:36 eg. if you wanna test a certain method you have to test all combinations of method calls before that method 14:18:37 Xach: I have read about this, but it looked a bit too much work to set up before I even knew the basics of Lisp. 14:18:38 wingy: the point is that it's invoking bugs, to define a global variable (defvar *wingy-bank-account-balance* (usd 100.00)). 14:18:52 alexander__b: I think it's worth it. 14:18:53 antonv [2e35c32a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.42] has joined #lisp 14:18:55 wingy: you can prove it correct with hoare logic. 14:18:59 alexander__b: It's a much more supportive environment. 14:19:22 gah. limp, here I come, I guess. 14:19:28 wingy: and since it's a small object, with only a few state variables, and a few methods, you can easily prove it correct. 14:19:33 alexander__b: as Xach said for me as well. One big benefit for a newbie if you setup Emacs/SLIME is that it will tell you the arglist of the functions as you type them 14:19:39 pjb: yeah but shouldn't that bank account state be in the database .. not necessarily in the app logic where the bugs can get introduced 14:19:51 wingy: it can be where ever you want. 14:19:54 you just have functions (FP style) to do whatever you do with that data 14:19:57 wingy: there are OO databases. 14:20:05 like? 14:20:12 like a ton of them. google. 14:20:28 alexander__b: may i suggest that you read http://mohiji.nfshost.com/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-linux/ and also get a copy of "practical common lisp"? 14:20:44 alexander__b: (not only "read" but also "follow") 14:21:22 H4ns: not really. everyone has done it several times, and I found the practicals horribly boring, as well as the writing quite unengaging. Land of Lisp on the other hand has me interested. 14:21:45 In that case, it's good, read LoL. 14:21:52 state sounds bad 14:22:03 in the app logic 14:22:03 alexander__b: ok. but follow the advice on how to set up a usable lisp environment with slime and emacs. 14:22:16 like a bug walking in my code 14:22:17 wingy: you're in the wrong channel. 14:22:20 That's the reason why it's silly to ask for books: just browse them all and read the ones that interest your! 14:22:24 wingy: it's best to give it a really scary name, too, like "impure state" or "unhygienic state". 14:22:27 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-69-203-204-197.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:22:35 H4ns: no thanks. I know #lisp thinks Emacs is the tits, but I really don't. 14:22:41 H4ns: i thought that FP talks would be here :) 14:22:55 wingy: more fp talk on #haskell. 14:23:06 wingy: this channel is about common lisp 14:23:17 *dim* has fallen in love with hunchentoot as a mean to provide stats and control over what was a non-interactive batch in CL 14:23:19 isnt that one all about FP? 14:23:30 wingy: no. 14:23:56 alexander__b: SLIME goes way beyond emacs. 14:24:04 alexander__b: cd ~; svn co http://svn.clozure.com/publicsvn/openmcl/trunk/linuxx86/ccl; ln -s ~/ccl/lx86cl ~/bin/ccl; echo "export PATH=$PATH:~/bin" >> ~/.bashrc 14:24:05 zwick [~zwick@12.200.95.61] has joined #lisp 14:24:08 :) 14:24:21 assuming you are on x86 linux... 14:25:19 oconnore: I'm not really in the habit of downloading random things without further explanation. 14:25:50 alexander__b: clozure common lisp is another nice lisp compiler -- http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/ 14:26:00 alexander__b: that's why we gave you a svn repo: so you can read the source before running it! 14:26:25 oconnore: why would I want another compiler. I already have one, that probably serves just as well for someone who hasn't written any lisp yet. 14:26:45 Sure. 14:26:47 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.181.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:00 pjb: do you generally download two gigabytes of src to read the headers, or do you first read a line or two about the project? heh 14:27:15 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.32.81] has joined #lisp 14:27:16 Read the whole thing. 14:27:43 alexander__b: and be sure to read and understand http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html first. 14:27:49 -!- Kron [~Kron@2.49.82.19] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 14:27:56 alexander__b: that's probably true. I just saw that you were complaining about difficulties with sbcl. CCL is usually easier to get running. Just trying to help... 14:28:05 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.82.19] has joined #lisp 14:28:54 pjb: :) 14:29:55 limp apparently requires hyperspec, which in turn looks awfully proprietary 14:29:59 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-95-50.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 14:30:30 alexander__b: not exactly. 14:30:41 Yes, standards tend to look proprietary. 14:31:26 Xach: uhm yes 14:32:09 Xach: Permissions related to performance and to creation of derivative works, make partial copies, make modified copies, etc etc etc forever - are expressly NOT granted 14:32:13 capital NOT even 14:32:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-98.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:32:53 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p54839E10.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:14 alexander__b: There are some rights granted that are not typical for fully proprietary works. 14:33:42 Xach: using the free software definition, it is still very much proprietary. 14:34:23 alexander__b: get over it 14:34:34 ^ 14:35:00 nice free software attitude, but no thanks. 14:35:07 It's refreshing to have someone moderately hostile at the start instead of luring us into a false sense of security first. 14:35:14 documentation is not software 14:36:18 dlowe: toxicity is refreshing? 14:36:34 So we were right from the start? 14:36:58 Yuuhi [benni@p54839E10.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:57 *drewc* remembers when /kick was popular for such things ... and misses those times a wee bit 14:38:11 pjb: you're pretty cranky yourself :p 14:38:32 -!- ozialien [~ozi@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ozialien] 14:38:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:38:44 and good morning #lisp'ers :) 14:38:50 hi drewc 14:38:51 drewc: morning :D 14:39:00 mornin' 14:39:02 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.107.251] has joined #lisp 14:39:12 minion: chant! 14:39:20 :'( 14:39:28 blargh I'm dead and stassats is nowhere to be found. 14:39:29 stassats isn't here 14:39:59 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-201-132.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 14:40:58 minion used to run off of cl-net, yes? I miss minion :( 14:41:01 (morning 'lisp) 14:41:58 (evening ()bags!) 14:42:03 :) 14:42:51 and specbot was it called? "clhs defmacro" ? Spending a year not on #lisp, I seem to forget all the details. 14:43:07 wish sbcl allowed arrow/home/end keys 14:43:54 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-166-36.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:44:03 it's not really meant to be used as a raw interpreter. 14:44:17 but you seem to be pretty insistent on making your life hard. 14:44:37 alexander__b: linedit 14:44:48 but, yes, if you're not using slime, you're doing it wrong 14:44:52 sykopomp: when you start out with an interpreted language, you generally just work the interpreter at first to do things such as define variables. 14:45:02 alexander__b: http://xach.com/lisp/linedit-screencast.gif 14:45:10 that said it is occasionally useful when slime loses connectivity to have decent line editing in sbcl 14:45:16 alexander__b: not with Lisp 14:45:25 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.128.158] has joined #lisp 14:45:38 alexander__b: That's not how I code Lisp, and I find that style of programming incredibly constraining when I use it elsewhere (such as in Python) 14:46:00 -!- Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-024-074-028-225.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:46:23 dlowe: it's good to be cranky. 14:46:43 alexander__b: part of what we are telling you is that slime has the most comfortable interface to the interpreter. linedit should help some at least 14:46:45 I learned the very basics (assigning variables, printing, defining procedures, etc) of Python and Ruby both this way. it lets me use the language, withot spending hours hunting down interpreters, IDEs, docs and other crap. 14:47:01 alexander__b: this isn't Python, and it isn't Ruby. 14:47:06 "crap" 14:47:29 but perhaps if you were learning C, you would insist on using an interactive command-line shell even if everyone in ##c keeps telling you you're doing it wrong. 14:47:33 (also, wrt hyperspec, you could say the same about c/c++/java/etc, often with far less permissive documentation) 14:48:06 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:48:09 I haven't come across any C stuff yet, that I am aware of being that restrictive. 14:48:16 alexander__b: use a scratch buffer or the repl in slime for that. slime isn't hard to set up, you get all of that, and you get a lot mroe, too 14:48:20 There are interactive C implementations. 14:48:21 s/come across/needed to use 14:48:47 oGMo: and you have to use the #1 source of CTS 14:49:20 alexander__b: or you can just use the vim mode for emacs and pretend it's vim. 14:49:37 the book does eventually get into emacs + slime, I think 14:49:46 sykopomp: that sounds intriguing 14:49:51 yay for the GCC compile farm. in case somebody wanted to use iolib on sparc64 linux, I fixed a bug :) 14:49:52 See for example a comparison of CL REPL vs. a C REPL: http://www.cliki.net/REPL 14:49:58 (at the bottom). 14:50:12 I love slime, but I wish people wouldn't push it so hard at the beginning 14:50:14 alexander__b: I guess repeating the same thing 3 times means you will eventually listen. 14:50:31 there is a vim mode? heh, when did that come out? :) 14:50:39 there's at least 3 14:50:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-70.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:50:48 in emacs? eons ago heh 14:50:52 vim isn't vi, I think drewc is saying 14:50:57 oh 14:51:15 evil is the vim-like one. 14:51:16 but emacs with vi navigation is sufficiently close 14:51:21 http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Evil 14:51:25 I'm looking at a couple of "vim mode" plugins atm 14:51:29 guyal [~michaelmu@108.235.117.64] has joined #lisp 14:51:36 one is just caled VimMode 14:51:37 I had so much trouble with vim mode plugins I eventually just learned emacs 14:51:39 (there were apparently also vimpulse and vim-mode) 14:51:47 There's also elvis 14:51:48 -!- cheezus [~Adium@75-119-242-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:51:57 but I believe evil is the more modern one. Not that I've tried any of them. 14:52:20 I used viper mode back in the day .. 2004 or so. I do not think that vim-mode existed back then. 14:52:42 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:52:49 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:53:58 lol 14:54:09 emerge -a slime pulls 8 packages. I miss vim already. 14:54:30 (ql:quickload 'swank) 14:54:31 and sbcl isn't "current" 14:54:33 er .. you want cvs slime, not your dist's 14:54:51 no, he wants slime from quicklisp 14:55:00 better 14:55:03 (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper") is usually the thing 14:55:06 (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper") 14:55:12 yeah that :) 14:55:12 forgot that was there now 14:55:33 looks like The Right Way of doing Lisp is completely impossible to unite with UNIX. 14:55:50 alexander__b: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B_4vhsmRRI 14:55:54 alexander__b: what you call "UNIX" is actually Linux and quite a different thing. 14:56:11 is actually more probably GNU + Linux. 14:56:18 oh great 14:56:29 that discussion 14:56:42 emacs is at odds with unix in the first place. 14:56:53 organometallica [~bigsqueez@bigsqueeze.scs.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:57:11 alexander__b: now that you're trying emacs, you could as well look at the web page that i've pasted you earlier. 14:57:27 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-19.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:30 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:57:51 I'm not going to spend a week learning tools and reading manuals and watching tutorials before I code a single line 14:58:20 so I'm doing emerge slime, and using whatever tools it pulls in. so be it if sbcl isn't "current". it is probably able to assign a variable and define a procedure. 14:58:22 no, your time is much better spent in an IRC channel. 14:58:44 alexander__b: just use linedit, edit files and load them. 14:58:50 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-19.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:59:08 linedit should be emergable, I think 14:59:15 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-024-074-028-225.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:27 dlowe: the package name is not linedit at least 14:59:38 there's also rlwrap 14:59:40 it's certainly quickloadable 14:59:44 alexander__b: try cl-linedit 14:59:53 there is no package *linedit* 15:00:02 * being wildcards not emphasis 15:00:08 huh. *shrug* 15:00:31 looks like they took it out 15:00:48 or made it a part of some meta-package or something 15:01:23 *dlowe* used cmucl for a year with vim and no linedit 15:01:38 and looooots of copy/paste 15:01:40 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:02:12 if sbcl compiles neatly (please work please work please work), I'll probably have slime and a bunch of emacs deps stuff ready soon-ish, heh. 15:02:24 isn't there a lisp in a box thing with all this for (unwilling/lazy) newbies to get started? 15:02:30 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 15:02:36 dlowe: WWPGD 15:02:38 alexander__b: clisp includes readline. It would be better to just assign a variable and define a function with no fuss. 15:02:57 but so far lisp looks like java on steroids, in that the language looks amazing, but the tools and everything surrounding its use is a PITA. 15:03:20 just unfamiliar 15:03:20 i would say they're not the PITA here 15:03:53 the tools are the best part! :( 15:03:57 Xach: PG would write his own 100-year text editor built up from six editing operations 15:04:07 dlowe: I prefer just editing files, then using gcc or some compiler, then running. done. 15:04:20 alexander__b: just use Java, then. 15:04:21 Then go to ##c. 15:04:23 Xach: after three years, he would have an emacs mode showing his progress 15:04:25 or C 15:04:27 alexander__b: you can still work that way 15:04:30 sykopomp: Java is almost as bad. 15:04:34 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-19.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:04:42 alexander__b: C or Python, then! 15:04:48 alexander__b: the fun thing is, next to no one will want to waste time helping you with your custom development environment. 15:05:23 pkhuong: with C or Python it essentially doesn't matter what environment you have. get a new-ish compiler and you're set. 15:05:54 dlowe: howto? lol 15:05:55 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 15:05:56 yeah, and you can't develop C or Python the way I develop Lisp. :) 15:06:26 alexander__b: if you want to batch compile CL programs, have a look at https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/implementations.mk 15:06:41 alexander__b: it definitely matters if you don't use the same debugger as everyone else. 15:06:43 alexander__b: Setup a makefile to run sbcl --eval "(compile-file $@)" 15:07:17 pkhuong: welp I haven't gotten to debugging and memleak hunting yet. 15:07:19 But you're just asking for bad advice and we're giving it to you, since you don't want to listen to the good advice. 15:07:25 alexander__b: ok, cool. now please stop. this is turning into a c.l.l. thread 15:07:29 Don't complain later saying that CL is crap. 15:08:29 the language isn't at all. it looks, as said, completely amazing. 15:09:18 slime is done woop woop. 15:09:31 happy hacking 15:09:47 wat graphical emacs lol 15:10:02 emacs -nw 15:10:06 we don't need a blow-by-blow of your opinions on editors. 15:10:23 H4ns: thanks 15:11:31 sykopomp: don't you understand? He's never even run an implementation, his opinion is pricelessly untainted, like rainwater. 15:11:36 so now all I have to do is learn emacs and slime and then maybe I can program? 15:11:58 basically yes. 15:12:23 all you really have to learn now is M-x slime and C-c C-c. 15:12:30 and C-c C-k 15:12:31 and I'm assuming emacs has just as steep a learning curve as lisp itself, heh 15:12:31 you can do it with notepad and an interpreter, but emacs+slime are just gorgeous tools. 15:12:45 make things a lot easier. 15:13:03 and paredit! 15:13:12 alexander__b: it doesn't. It has a much easier curve than vim, and if you use the X11 version, you can use the emacs menus to do all the basic operations while you learn the bindings. 15:13:13 alexander__b: no. You just move around with the arrows and click on the manu (oups, you don't like graphic editors). 15:13:32 there's no shame in using menus, and they have the bindings right next to them, usually. 15:13:34 sykopomp: I don't like menus, so I'll be learning the command line (I assume it has one). 15:13:37 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-sxagomzqfirkelek] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:13:53 benny [~benny@i577A11BB.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:14:09 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 15:14:15 alexander__b: Like I said, the menus are useful when you're learning, and they'll help you get things done right away. I don't even have them enabled. 15:14:46 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 15:14:59 if I'm spending like ten years learning this damn thing, I might as well dive into it. besides, I really dislike menus. 15:15:22 b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:15:30 alexander__b: spend a few minutes in the tutorial, C-h t 15:15:38 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-19.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:15:58 alexander__b: I don't even have menus enabled, nor would I ever use them at this point, but they helped me a lot when I was first learning my way around the editor. 15:16:01 H4ns: that's where I'm at now. 15:18:25 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:19:07 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.254.48] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 15:19:10 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:10 hrr4 [~hrr4@c-69-245-141-254.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:11 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:23 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 15:19:39 copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has joined #lisp 15:19:46 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:20:33 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:20:34 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:10 Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:21:32 k0001 [~k0001@200.5.223.182] has joined #lisp 15:21:36 this is funny, i join, no minion, login to cl.net, and see it restarting itself, why couldn't it restart itself sooner? 15:21:52 no animating spirit 15:22:16 minion: do you know why? 15:22:17 you'd have to tell me... my memory circuits are fried 15:22:32 minion: chant 15:22:32 MORE FEATURES 15:22:37 w00t! 15:22:45 minion: ,chant! 15:22:46 *Xach* feels much better about the shape of the next quicklisp release 15:22:46 does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 15:22:53 ya! 15:22:56 lol 15:23:01 froydnj: i saw mention of 0.31 in the commits yesterday, is it actually available? 15:23:14 minion: chant 15:23:14 MORE TOXIC 15:23:24 this is strange, i have no idea why minion dropped out 15:23:24 does torturing mankind with war please you ?! 15:23:30 ya! 15:23:30 *drewc* has not said anything to minion in over a year and was quite happy to do so! 15:23:31 lol 15:23:42 and how it managed to connect itself the moment i noticed 15:25:10 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183.178.133.120] has quit [Quit: ] 15:25:31 Xach: no, just prepping NEWS 15:25:32 -!- tcr [~tcr@94.76.29.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:26:36 OK I kind of like emacs save for the CTS thing 15:27:09 everything is "1. keep your fingers on the home row. 2. press and hold C or M." 15:27:49 -!- mathrick__ is now known as mathrick 15:27:56 You can move control to the home row by binding caps lock to it, and use esc or C-[ instead of meta. 15:28:08 and some things don't make sense to me. b for back, f for forward, p fo previous, _ for... undo?? 15:28:37 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:53 pkhuong: unfortunately that is not an alternative. my u-key is broken, so caps lock is u. when I work "properly" and efficiently, I am generally in an office that has an external keyboard though, so that's probably what I'll do. 15:29:09 (...) 15:29:25 there was some kind of maintenance, which caused it to drop out, i shall add a periodic checking that the bots are actually joined to any channel, not just connected 15:29:28 C-/ is probably the more ergonomic default undo binding 15:29:44 Vivitron: in vim it's just u 15:29:49 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:30:00 u on dvorak is your left index finger. doesn't get much more ergonomic. 15:30:41 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-011-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:05 yes, not using a separate edit mode has some trade offs. 15:31:32 C-a is completely awful on this laptop keyboard at least, heh 15:31:34 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:29 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:32:33 also whenever I get a bit lost in the document I find myself wanting to type 'gg'. 15:33:22 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:08 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:34:19 -!- tzxn3 [~tzxn3@cpc2-nott16-2-0-cust552.12-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:34:44 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Quit: ] 15:35:29 omg C-u - number - C-v. wow. and using dvorak, numbers are on shift. >_< 15:35:47 peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:59 tzxn3 [~tzxn3@cpc2-nott16-2-0-cust552.12-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:09 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:12 alexander__b: numbers aren't on shift in dvorak 15:36:24 -!- nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-225.math.tu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:36:45 madnificent: you are likely talking about ANSI dvorak. 15:36:52 alexander__b: you use search to navigate a lot more in emacs 15:37:01 alexander__b: dvorak international neither 15:37:03 alt - number was a bit nicer. 15:37:27 dlowe: c-v was just an example. the c-u number [something] was the part I found off-putting. 15:37:45 madnificent: on the original layout it is on shift. 15:37:50 alexander__b: no 15:37:51 dmizzle_ [~dmizzle@65-130-132-248.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:04 nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 15:38:20 "i use a really odd keyboard and all the standard bindings are inconvenient, wtf!" 15:38:42 madnificent: I'm talking before PCs. 15:38:44 #emacs is thataway ------> 15:39:07 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.128.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:39:18 madnificent: they were in an odd-even sequence as well. 15:39:20 alexander__b: in fact, the numbers in the original dvorak were even ordered differently so they could be typed faster. either give me a reference (mine is sadly nothing better than wikipedia, or get your facts straight please). 15:40:12 -!- b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:41:48 what can be nicer than a combined programming language, editor and keyboard layout war? 15:42:04 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:20 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:42:27 madnificent: had a look at the patent. apparently numbers weren't even a part of it. maybe only the odd-even sequence was a part of the layout I thought about. sorry. 15:42:36 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-170-236.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:42:41 H4ns: OS & web browser as well 15:42:51 H4ns: whether to use mouse or not 15:43:02 i, for one, use it all the time when writing lisp! 15:43:25 stassats: that is silly. all software you write stinks like mouse poo. 15:43:41 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:48 https://github.com/vsedach/mouse-copy this thing is very useful 15:44:08 the CEO of the company I'm working for this summer had a huge mouse that looked really inconvenient. 15:45:44 it was uhm tall and narrow. the buttons being on the side. hard to explain. you held your hand like | not -. 15:45:45 alexander__b: what a great argument, that is. do you have the patent application on document for me? 15:46:12 If I get a "missing make-load-form" error in a defconstant, is the best fix to define (eval-when (:compile-toplevel ...) (defmethod make-load-form ...))? 15:46:35 it's better not to use defconstant 15:46:37 madnificent: what do you mean. I said I was probably wrong. the patent is available if you look on e.g. wikipedia. it doesn't have numbers. 15:46:42 oconnore: your best bet is to not use defconstant 15:47:05 alexander__b: oh yeah, i missed it :) thanks 15:47:38 stassats: drewc ever? Just to avoid this problem? 15:48:38 I have never written code that uses defconstant before, but I am fixing up a library where it is used (incorrectly) 15:48:40 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.181.111] has joined #lisp 15:48:48 oconnore: ever, imo ... but read the docs for defconstant to find out why it is not so great. 15:48:49 hm. wonder how much using emacs for lisp will mess with my web browser behaving like vim. 15:51:29 drewc: well, the docs don't give reasons why it isn't so great, other than to say that the value form must be able to be evaluated at compile or load time. 15:52:11 I guess it's just personal preference? 15:52:12 pspace [~andrew@76.14.85.11] has joined #lisp 15:52:19 "The consequences are undefined if there are any bindings of the variable named by name at the time defconstant is executed or if the value is not eql to the value of initial-value. 15:53:31 defconstant doesn't add anything, unless you're doing optimizations 15:53:38 that makes sense, yes. 15:54:36 so, you cannot reload a file the has defconstant in it unless the initial value is eql to the value it already has ... that is a bit of an issue for development. 15:54:58 pnq [~nick@ACA25BBD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:55:17 -!- hrr4 [~hrr4@c-69-245-141-254.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hrr4] 15:55:31 The problem of the inconstant constant ... 15:57:03 indeed :) 15:57:52 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:59:41 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA25BBD.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:00:43 somebody should totally do a write-up on defconstant, when to use, when not to 16:01:44 stassats: is there a community lisp blog that takes submissions like that? 16:01:49 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@119.111.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 16:01:56 your own! 16:01:59 "

Defconstant usage guide

When to use: Never

" 16:02:17 :) 16:02:18 sykopomp: i actually use defconstant 16:02:22 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:02:33 but for optimization purposes only 16:03:01 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:03:06 AeroNotix [~xeno@aeak47.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:03:21 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-150-230.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:04:02 -!- sanjoyd [sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:08 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 16:04:56 I now have slbc working in vim. w00t/phew. 16:05:29 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-19.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:06:47 repent, sinner! 16:07:05 vim is pentance 16:07:17 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:08:56 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:09:43 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 16:10:01 sepuku [~spk@dsl-aav0nk.dyn.edudsl.gr] has joined #lisp 16:10:48 alexander__b: I stopped using this a long time ago, but if you are still insistant on vim -- https://github.com/oconnore/SaneCL :) 16:10:57 mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-165-159.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:11:01 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 16:11:22 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD7665.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:30 don't look at the code unless you have a bucket handy 16:11:32 oconnore: currently using limp. it's fairly pleasant thus far. 16:12:27 lifeng [~lifeng@bb121-7-108-184.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 16:14:09 *very* nice autocompletion 16:15:14 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:15:14 alexander__b: I believe you can have both running. my program will just add indenting behavior similar to emacs/slime 16:15:27 but if you are happy... 16:16:02 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 16:18:48 EyesIsMine 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[~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:50:51 [SLB] [~slabua@host97-170-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:50:52 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host97-170-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 17:50:52 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 17:50:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:51:29 -!- carlos [~carlos@rrcs-71-40-215-82.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:51:57 carlos [~carlos@rrcs-71-40-215-82.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:52:19 -!- carlos [~carlos@rrcs-71-40-215-82.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:57:51 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:59:29 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-209-158.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 18:01:09 -!- hrr4 [~hrr4@c-69-245-141-254.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hrr4] 18:03:37 Xach: Do you recall a term that you used once to describe a partition of the URL space for a website? 18:04:51 was there any unique solution to the clos flaw ? 18:05:30 austinh: hmm, no 18:05:30 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:37 homie`: what flaw? 18:05:45 -!- kanru [~kanru@233.Red-88-7-119.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:06:01 Xach: I remember thinking that you captured that concept well, and I've needed something similar, but I can't remember where I saw it. It was probably in the documentation for a lib you wrote. 18:06:07 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:20 hrr4 [~hrr4@c-69-245-141-254.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:32 austinh: it doesn't sound especially familiar; maybe i was repeating something i read elsewhere. 18:06:42 *Xach* feels rusty 18:06:57 *austinh* has spent way too much time reasoning about URLs lately 18:07:07 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-95-50.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 18:10:44 scmaccal [~user@rrcs-24-39-36-54.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:15:10 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 18:15:23 ez271 [506d3e82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.109.62.130] has joined #lisp 18:16:27 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:20:41 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:06 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:21:42 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:21:45 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-003-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:19 information encapsulation flaw! 18:22:47 please, stop being silly 18:23:31 i'm trying that 18:24:11 but dry words won't achieve anything! 18:24:18 lol 18:26:50 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 18:27:37 snearch [~snearch@f053003038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:27:39 stassats are you discriminating against me or with me ? 18:27:45 lol 18:28:20 i'm against senseless noise 18:28:39 wise man! 18:29:32 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD7665.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:36 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 18:29:44 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:30:54 saage [~saage@201.41.173.242] has joined #lisp 18:30:54 -!- saage [~saage@201.41.173.242] has quit [Changing host] 18:30:55 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 18:33:05 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:47 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.95.212] has joined #lisp 18:38:43 sanjoyd [sanjoyd@nat/google/x-iwcbrjpfkqsirgrn] has joined #lisp 18:39:08 -!- sanjoyd [sanjoyd@nat/google/x-iwcbrjpfkqsirgrn] has quit [Changing host] 18:39:08 sanjoyd [sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 18:42:59 Guthur [~user@212.183.140.59] has joined #lisp 18:54:10 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o drewc 18:54:41 pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:54:53 benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 18:57:08 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o drewc 18:58:20 -!- cheezus [~Adium@209.226.201.228] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:59:02 *Xach* high-fives drewc 19:00:02 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.32.81] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 19:00:42 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:01:36 that was a mistake! I meant to op myself in a different channel ... 19:01:40 -!- scmaccal [~user@rrcs-24-39-36-54.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:03 zealousJavelin [~niksaak@94.27.88.79] has joined #lisp 19:03:09 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 19:04:27 for some reason I did #lisp instead of #tech.coop ... I think I was a little confused there. 19:04:27 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:58 *drewc* has no excuses, just sayin 19:05:07 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:06 There can be no forgiveness for typos 19:06:53 dlowe: you headed to the lisp meeting tomorrow? 19:07:19 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:08 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@108-222-196-145.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:08 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@108-222-196-145.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:08:08 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 19:08:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:10:26 -!- SrPx [b162432c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.98.67.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:12:23 Xach: I hope so 19:12:36 I hope I won't have to bail like last time, too 19:13:46 -!- antonv [2e35c32a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:15:05 *Xach* can't make it 19:15:23 you'll be missed 19:15:26 -!- ez271 [506d3e82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.109.62.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:17:08 *drewc* won't be there either ... though he only went to one Boston lisp meeting in, oh, 2007 IIRC 19:17:55 drewc: you can come to the july meeting, then 19:18:07 drewc: they're fun, usually 19:18:25 rms was at the last one to troll Xach 19:20:17 I thought it was rad! 19:20:32 I actually met someone last week who knew who rms was, so I got to humblebrag about it, too. 19:20:51 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:16 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:22:39 being trolled by rms is an honor 19:22:55 gabnet [~gabnet@148.23.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:24 -!- benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:23:44 I met him on the red line a few years ago. Recognized him by his Yeelong 19:24:00 and having gerry sussman set up your projector is an honor too 19:24:08 can we do a boston meeting in canada ? it's easier for me to get into canada 19:24:11 "shouldn't you be out writing a textbook?" 19:24:22 fe[nl]ix: i'm game. 19:24:34 new brunswick works best for me, but montreal is nice too. 19:25:08 boston, ontario? 19:25:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:25:25 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.215] has joined #lisp 19:25:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:25:48 There's probably a couple more lispers around montreal than in all of NB (: 19:26:01 stassats: that one 19:26:54 a little rearrangement of the map and that can be fixed 19:27:06 if even a few move out of the pacific ocean to new brunswick 19:27:33 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@148.23.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27:39 I can recommend Vancouver or Toronto! 19:27:55 Montreal! 19:28:02 gabnet [~gabnet@148.23.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:12 *drewc* is in tdot now but lives just off the coast of van 19:28:38 i'd recommend central Europe 19:28:52 I'm looking forward to the meeting. I also expect to not have to bail early this time. 19:29:16 ffortin [~ffortin@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:30:18 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:30:19 and I have not been in Boston since March ... but I may be there in July, as soon as I know the date of the July lisp meeting :) 19:30:37 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:09 will you speak? fare is always looking for speakers 19:31:20 -!- ffortin [~ffortin@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:32:06 I still think Eli should speak, but he's not interested. 19:33:39 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.222.191] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:48 I has been a while since I spoke at a Lisp Meeting ... hrm ... I'll have to come up with something to talk about, make sure I am there for it. But, I now have something to try and arrange :) 19:34:22 drewc: did you have some other, lesser reason to visit boston? 19:35:09 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@119.111.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:35:27 yeah, I do... The client I am currently contracting for is in Boston, and I am supposed to go out there again soon. 19:35:34 cool 19:35:47 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:36:35 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:37:22 -!- herbieB [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:37:46 the 17th, 18th, and 19th of july are bad for me (my wife is going out of town for a training thing), but other than that, july is wide open 19:38:22 Xach: so they're good for you: you'll be alone with the children! Fun and play! Teach them some lisp! :-) 19:38:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:39:07 pjb: yes, quite good for family time, but not as good for traveling to boston 19:39:11 Xach: did you ever post the quicklisp code that you spoke about at the last Boston lisp? 19:39:26 oconnore: not yet, i hope to soon. trying to catch up on other quicklispy things. 19:39:58 Xach: ok, just curious 19:40:02 -!- Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-250-130.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:40:20 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-003-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:41:01 Myk267 [~myk@71.149.250.130] has joined #lisp 19:41:31 *Xach* adds a bunch of smithzv libraries 19:42:00 Well, July 31st is my Birthday, so I probably will not be in Boston then ... besides that, I do not know! 19:42:18 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:19 but admission to boston is free on your birthday! 19:47:14 francogrex [~user@109.130.67.37] has joined #lisp 19:47:39 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:49:22 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053003038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:49:59 ohhh! Then maybe I will come! 19:52:41 Out of historical curiosity, has there ever been a Boston Lisp meeting actually in Boston? They've been in Cambridge for as long as I've known of them. 19:53:25 Not that I know of 19:53:35 Cambridge is a lot more convenient 19:53:47 -!- hrr4 [~hrr4@c-69-245-141-254.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hrr4] 19:54:58 -!- zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-avzzzmjaequvnzar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:30 Seems a shame it's not a Cambridge Lisp Users meeting. Good Tron reference. 19:56:00 X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 19:57:28 asvil [~asvil@178.121.90.238] has joined #lisp 19:58:33 hrr4 [~hrr4@c-69-245-141-254.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:45 ASau [~user@95-26-249-50.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:01:18 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:05:09 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:05:19 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:48 booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:30 *Group* 20:12:33 whoops 20:14:19 Moor [~user@c-24-7-113-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:16:11 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:03 -!- Moor [~user@c-24-7-113-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:39 what's a good library for matrix manipulations in CL, for example to be able to calculate something like: diag(ac%*%w%*%ac%*%w) ? (apart from using maxima) 20:19:52 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@119.111.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 20:21:02 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:26 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:23:37 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@148.23.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 20:23:42 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23:47 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 20:24:00 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:24:13 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:55 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 20:29:22 -!- zwick [~zwick@12.200.95.45] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:32:49 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.67.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:53 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-70.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:24 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:56 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 20:37:32 francogrex [~user@109.130.67.37] has joined #lisp 20:38:26 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.148.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:38:40 -!- booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:15 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:15 someone wrote a program where all function have blank newlines between the lines of code, what's a very easy way to remove the newlines. If the function is evaluated in the repl can we have it printed out in a "condensed" form? 20:39:51 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:09 francogrex: M-x delete-matching-lines 20:40:20 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 20:44:17 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:44:33 dlowe: it just deletes everything... ! 20:44:55 francogrex: so don't specify a regex that matches everything :p 20:45:08 I tried replace-regex for newlines but then it's very uglyly condensed 20:45:18 use ^$ 20:45:45 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.90.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:45:49 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:05 dlowe: ok this works. Thanks 20:48:07 -!- prince_j1mmys [~mischa@pool-71-249-63-128.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:49:13 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:26 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.95.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:53:17 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:45 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:57 prince_jammys [~mischa@pool-71-247-27-119.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:27 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-209-158.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:34 (loop with s = 0 for i from 1 to 10 sum i into s finally (return s)) ? Variable S in INTO clause is a duplicate 20:57:55 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD7665.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:01:20 francogrex: yes. into s declares s 21:01:42 I guess there is no need for s being 0 but what if s is set at another initial value 21:02:04 you may have to finally (return (+s other-initial-value)) 21:02:14 steffi_s [~marioooh@ip-64-134-69-51.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:17 the suffering will be... unbearable 21:02:39 + s 21:05:26 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:06:07 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:17 true; I am stretching the limits of logic... it's just that I am debugging old programs... 21:07:08 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.82.19] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 21:07:57 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.5.223.182] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:08:08 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-213-185.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:08:19 cheezus [~Adium@68-248-62-130.ded.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:37 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-243-2-126.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:09:09 copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has joined #lisp 21:10:08 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-237.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:37 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.67.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:30 -!- zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-163-13.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:13:06 kanru [~kanru@84.124.36.50.static.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 21:13:45 -!- cheezus [~Adium@68-248-62-130.ded.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:14:48 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-011-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:20:07 -!- hrr4 [~hrr4@c-69-245-141-254.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hrr4] 21:20:43 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@ip-64-134-69-51.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 21:21:09 or even (+ s (loop ... sum i)) 21:21:11 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:38 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:23:18 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:24:54 |3b|: Just saw your following message. Thanks. 21:25:32 Indeed, I am now trying to get the entire project running using quicklisp. 21:27:32 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:28:43 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:29:09 copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has joined #lisp 21:31:44 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:53 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:32:08 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@119.111.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:32:23 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:34 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:36:15 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:36:15 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:29 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has 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My google fu is returning nothing :-/ 23:21:41 wingy [~wingie@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 23:21:45 -!- wingy [~wingie@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has left #lisp 23:24:00 fitzgen: no 23:24:18 fe[nl]ix: I suspected as much 23:24:25 thanks for confirming it for me 23:25:40 -!- jnbek [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:26:46 jnbek [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has joined #lisp 23:26:51 -!- zealousJavelin [~niksaak@94.27.88.79] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:26:57 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@119.111.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:31:48 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 23:34:06 -!- fitzgen [~fitzgen@2620:101:8003:200:e2f8:47ff:fe3d:f14c] has left #lisp 23:35:14 chu [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:35:15 -!- chu [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 23:35:15 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 23:35:44 dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-183-188.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:42 -!- dmizzle_ [~dmizzle@65-130-132-248.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:04 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.242.248] has joined #lisp 23:47:28 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:54 ozialien [~ozi@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:22 melontrolly1 [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp