00:01:58 -!- bobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 00:02:11 bobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has joined #lisp 00:02:26 lemonodor fame has lost some cachet 00:06:13 It's true you're almost overshadowing it. 00:06:13 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:06:47 But it would be silly for Xach to pursue Xach's fame. 00:06:51 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:07:43 If anything at all, you're ahead of it. 00:07:59 I can't handle the pressure no more! 00:08:29 Xach -- The Famous Utilitarian 00:09:11 maybe some day the young bucks will vie to become lemondronor famous, but lemonodor fame is now a historical artifact. 00:09:33 lemonodor has changed odors, I believe 00:09:42 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:10:02 null- [~null-@unaffiliated/null-] has joined #lisp 00:10:13 *Xach* works harder to figure out the problem 00:11:57 prince_jammys [~mischa@pool-71-249-58-250.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:10 antifuchs, haha 00:19:56 lnostdal__ [~lnostdal@180.190.130.160] has joined #lisp 00:22:15 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@112.198.223.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:24:55 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:25 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.245.201] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 00:30:05 prince_j1mmys [~mischa@pool-71-249-63-128.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:05 KDr2 [~kdr2@221.219.115.106] has joined #lisp 00:33:07 -!- prince_jammys [~mischa@pool-71-249-58-250.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:33:12 -!- hugodunc` is now known as hugod 00:34:55 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@46.42.96.139] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:35:21 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:35:22 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 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joined #lisp 01:10:59 -!- zmv [~zmv@186.204.123.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:12:06 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:55 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 01:15:51 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 01:19:07 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:51 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@94.76.44.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:23:03 -!- ebobby [~fms@38.111.144.18] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:28:40 hrr4 [~hrr4@c-69-245-141-254.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:47 *dnm* pokes lemonodor 01:36:00 oh lookee 01:36:10 what are the odds? 01:36:18 Ghosts of Lispmas past? 01:38:30 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:45:48 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 01:46:24 hh [~hh@cpe-76-90-2-187.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:06:57 springz 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#lisp 03:50:52 mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable162.45-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:51:50 -!- mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable162.45-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 03:52:30 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:53:22 mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable162.45-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:53:29 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@static-64-61-115-26.isp.broadviewnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:03 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 03:57:50 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:57:52 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@177-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:12 lemoinem [~swoog@130-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:10 -!- mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable162.45-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:03:07 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@static-64-61-115-26.isp.broadviewnet.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 04:05:27 [SLB] [~slabua@host97-170-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 04:05:27 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host97-170-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 04:05:27 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 04:06:41 krfantasy [~krfantasy@123.159.54.81] has joined #lisp 04:09:13 zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:19 mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable162.45-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:10:22 Anyone had an issue with sbcl's socket-receive ? I keep getting 'SB-KERNEL:INDEX-TOO-LARGE-ERROR'. It's like it's ignoring the buffer length limit I give it 04:11:08 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:11:26 -!- mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable162.45-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:44 mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable162.45-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:11:49 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 04:12:57 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 04:14:00 -!- krfantasy [~krfantasy@123.159.54.81] has left #lisp 04:20:00 -!- mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable162.45-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:23:50 mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable162.45-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:25:15 -!- hh [~hh@cpe-76-90-2-187.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 04:27:17 UFO686 [~zhangyh@114.96.156.82] has joined #lisp 04:32:47 asvil [~asvil@178.120.152.197] has joined #lisp 04:36:18 tcr1 [~tcr@94.76.48.57] has joined #lisp 04:36:26 kleppari 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[~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 05:26:27 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 05:27:14 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:28:30 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-227-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:13 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 05:33:18 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 05:33:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-62.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:35:28 -!- lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:37:04 nipra [~nipra@125.20.84.54] has joined #lisp 05:41:28 -!- zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:41:28 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 05:41:43 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-227-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:41:53 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:43:43 -!- nipra [~nipra@125.20.84.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:46:17 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.20.186] has joined #lisp 05:47:33 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:50:31 Aiwass [~user@188.26.204.41] has joined #lisp 05:52:03 -!- hrr4 [~hrr4@c-69-245-141-254.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hrr4] 05:52:23 jewel [~jewel@196.215.148.118] has joined #lisp 05:53:36 is there a function for file move from one directory to another? rename-file does not make this actions (as in other languages). or a copy file function, so i can copy and delete? 05:55:19 Interdirectory renaming is generally dangerous. 05:55:38 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-kffrvijxzrhtowtu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:55:45 You might like to use a posix function or some-such if you want to handle the posix failure cases. 05:58:14 I will do this way, thanks 06:01:17 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD76A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:06 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 06:02:29 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:02:42 lea 06:02:42 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has joined #lisp 06:02:44 -!- Aiwass [~user@188.26.204.41] has left #lisp 06:05:42 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 06:10:25 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:14:38 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.217.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:16:23 wingy [~wingie@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 06:19:00 -!- am0c [~am0c@203.246.179.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:19:48 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:21:43 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-vixsmjnpywlqjlkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:22:40 tcr1 [~tcr@46.42.103.66] has joined #lisp 06:24:11 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 06:25:36 code is data 06:25:44 does that mean that lisp code can be stored in dbs? 06:25:44 data is code 06:25:56 no 06:26:10 although, you could store anything you want in a db. just like you could store C program code in a db 06:26:31 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:26:31 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:26:31 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:26:34 the point is that you can manipulate your program code just like you would with data, since Lisp programs are just (mostly) lists. 06:26:42 see e.g. macros. 06:28:25 right 06:28:49 what are the areas lisp are used in? 06:29:00 ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 06:29:07 im involved in web dev .. never seen lisp there 06:29:26 and is lisp a language? or a family of language? 06:29:41 kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 06:30:11 ``Erik [~erik@pool-108-3-186-191.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:55 <|3b|> using lisp for web dev isn't uncommon on #lisp, probably less common elsewhere 06:31:19 <|3b|> lisp is a family of languages, this channel is specifically about the "Common Lisp" dialect though 06:33:32 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-qjcmcwkfbrfqfklx] has joined #lisp 06:34:22 -!- bobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:34:43 bobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has joined #lisp 06:35:32 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.20.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:38:45 we should rename it to #common-lisp 06:40:12 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 06:40:18 isnt there a common lisp channel 06:41:23 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:41:42 yes.. it's called #lisp 06:41:45 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 06:42:13 oj 06:42:16 oh 06:52:09 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:53:25 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.148.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:55:09 am0c [~am0c@203.246.179.173] has joined #lisp 06:55:18 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 06:56:31 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@90.165.165.246] has quit [] 07:03:28 wingy check out http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ if you want to get started. 07:03:29 -!- superflit [~superflit@67-40-128-63.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:03:49 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD76A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:04:59 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:05:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:07:04 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 07:08:56 ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has joined #lisp 07:09:23 superflit_ [~superflit@75-171-193-68.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:47 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.224.77] has joined #lisp 07:09:59 im checking out clojure right now 07:10:07 might read on common lisp after that 07:10:42 ok, there is #clojure channel too btw 07:11:53 ivan-kan` [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 07:12:31 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-qjcmcwkfbrfqfklx] has quit [Ping timeout: 327 seconds] 07:12:37 yeah im in it 07:12:42 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 07:12:48 find lisp very appealing 07:12:55 no bullshit! 07:13:19 if it's any language that could give us AI that would be lisp? 07:13:26 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:14:45 Language is largely irrelevant to AI. 07:17:11 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-229-86-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:17:19 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-xohwqzwjtimwnisy] has joined #lisp 07:17:25 chr`` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 07:17:26 zag` [~user@c75-109-165-199.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:36 DGASAU` [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 07:17:41 edgar-rf_ [~me@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:18:29 Natch_z [~Natch@178.73.212.236] has joined #lisp 07:18:49 quasisan1 [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:57 EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:05 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:19:31 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 07:19:31 -!- chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 07:19:31 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 07:19:32 nah 07:19:32 for AI you have to have meta programming 07:19:32 so it can build itself 07:19:32 tear down features it dont see fit or inefficient 07:19:32 -!- gko [~user@220.228.255.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:32 -!- Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.236] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:19:32 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:19:32 build new functions 07:19:32 code as data really fits 07:19:33 -!- Natch_z is now known as Natch 07:19:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.181] has joined #lisp 07:19:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.181] has quit [Changing host] 07:19:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:21:00 -!- quasisan1 is now known as quasisane 07:21:37 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 07:21:47 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04c4d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:39 -!- pnq [~nick@AC822D22.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:23:38 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:23:38 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:23:38 -!- edgar-rft [~me@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:23:38 -!- zag [~user@c75-109-165-199.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:24:03 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-anmhwazyftbzeshx] has joined #lisp 07:26:10 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04c4d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:26:45 pnq [~nick@ACA32465.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 07:29:53 a long shot but is there a SLIME binding that will automatically load a library when I type (foo: and there is no foo package defined? 07:30:07 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 07:31:50 Yahovah_ [yann@orion.pi.edu.pk] has joined #lisp 07:31:50 aerique_ [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:31:51 cYmen_ [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 07:32:01 _tca_ [~tca@thewired.me] has joined #lisp 07:32:02 Ralith__ [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 07:32:08 *|3b|* hasn't heard of one, but quicklisp might have a mapping from packages->systems you could use to build one 07:32:10 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04c4d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:39 <|3b|> not sure what it would do if you typed for example json: though, since lots of systems provide packages with that name or nickname :p 07:34:04 for simplicity sake it would be good enough to assume package has the same name as system 07:34:17 jasox_ [~jasox@effic.me] has joined #lisp 07:36:41 -!- ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:36:41 -!- wingy [~wingie@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:36:41 -!- ozialien [~ozi@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:36:41 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:36:41 -!- dmizzle [~dmizzle@c-76-23-19-120.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:36:41 -!- Ralith_ [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:36:41 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:36:41 -!- felher [~whitedrag@fasel.nerd2nerd.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:36:41 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:36:42 -!- jasox [~felah@effic.me] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:36:42 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:36:42 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:36:42 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:36:42 -!- Yahovah [yann@orion.pi.edu.pk] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:36:42 -!- PECCU [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:36:42 -!- _tca [~tca@thewired.me] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:36:43 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:37:46 kmee: You could add a restart "Try loading appropriate system" for the "package not found" condition 07:38:16 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-100-44.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:38:16 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-100-44.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:38:17 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:38:21 tcr1 interesting idea 07:38:33 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:10 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:40:10 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:42:21 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 07:42:40 chu [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:42:40 -!- chu [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 07:42:40 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 07:45:20 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.152.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:47:31 ozialien [~ernest@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:32 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 07:51:38 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:52:06 -!- kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: quit] 07:58:19 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:58:28 ark11 [~ark@cm-110-171-106-83.revip7.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 07:58:33 Wow, sbcl is pretty nice. 07:58:35 Very fast. 08:00:07 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-anmhwazyftbzeshx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:01:57 asvil [~asvil@178.121.90.238] has joined #lisp 08:04:53 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 08:05:00 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:05:01 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.224.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:05:28 ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has joined #lisp 08:05:50 ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ycaywdcuupnmrtuq] has joined #lisp 08:08:03 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:08:10 -!- acieroid` is now known as acieroid 08:09:57 wingy [~wingie@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:09:57 dmizzle [~dmizzle@c-76-23-19-120.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:57 felher [~whitedrag@fasel.nerd2nerd.org] has joined #lisp 08:09:57 PECCU [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:11:22 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-pzbnlskrlqhwtcfe] has joined #lisp 08:11:40 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:11:47 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has joined #lisp 08:15:30 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-024-074-028-225.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:16:45 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-28-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:17:50 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-222-211.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:17:52 kanru [~kanru@233.Red-88-7-119.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:21:07 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:22:52 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.224.77] has joined #lisp 08:23:17 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.224.77] has quit [Client Quit] 08:30:25 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:30:46 -!- ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ycaywdcuupnmrtuq] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:35:20 Blkt [5bdae005@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.218.224.5] has joined #lisp 08:35:39 good morning everyone 08:35:46 good morning 08:37:16 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 08:40:37 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:41:21 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 08:42:32 ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-knwjufnxlifwznpw] has joined #lisp 08:44:11 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.204.90] has joined #lisp 08:50:52 -!- p_l|backup [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-kxlenfeqfumqzkyo] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:51:08 -!- ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-knwjufnxlifwznpw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:51:52 Kenjin 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quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:13:07 Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 10:13:32 What would cause a "Control stack guard page unprotected", there is no recursive functions involved from what I can see... 10:13:51 -!- Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has left #lisp 10:14:13 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:18:55 -!- EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:19:02 EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 10:20:23 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:21:35 paste the backtrace. 10:25:20 no backtrace, sbcl hangs and all i get is "Control stack guard page unprotected" in the *inferior-lisp* buffer 10:25:57 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:32:33 -!- EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:33:10 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@115.241.106.49] has joined #lisp 10:34:05 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@221.219.115.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:31 are you calling C code? 10:35:46 not explicitly 10:36:24 just reading a file and building a hash table from each item in the file 10:37:33 cfdm [~user@222.235.51.254] has joined #lisp 10:37:51 the file is big, 30megs but I have used bigger files with sbcl 10:37:52 what's your platform and sbcl version? 10:38:00 .55 10:38:08 busy compiling .57 now 10:38:52 ubuntu is the platform 10:40:58 have you tried getting a backtrace, e.g. with C-c C-c? 10:41:24 slime interrupt does nothing 10:43:13 I've had something like that on slow systems when printing circular objects, but otherwise, I have nothing to go on. 10:43:41 Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has joined #lisp 10:43:54 -!- Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has left #lisp 10:45:38 ok .57 is even worse i use to get to about line 20 of the file now it crashes on line 2 with no more info that before 10:45:52 that/than 10:46:24 maybe your computer is broken? 10:46:30 lol 10:46:31 all the better; you are that much closer to having a minimum failure case to share:) 10:46:36 nothing is impossible 10:46:38 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.123] has joined #lisp 10:47:12 -!- ark11 is now known as arkw 10:47:20 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:47:32 Harag: paste a minimal reproducing test case, let us try it out. 10:47:40 Vivitron: yeah let me build a minimal case and see what is going on 10:48:22 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:49:09 -!- UFO686 [~zhangyh@114.96.156.82] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:55:01 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:56:28 'morning 10:59:29 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:59:38 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:01:07 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 11:02:54 -!- springz [~springz@199.119.206.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:05:04 EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:47 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 11:16:38 pnq [~nick@AC81069E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:19:13 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@74.20.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 11:20:53 peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 11:23:04 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.90.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:25:12 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@115.241.106.49] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:27:31 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@46.42.103.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:29:36 -!- Blkt [5bdae005@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.218.224.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:31:26 zodiac1111 [~zodiac@183.129.147.44] has joined #lisp 11:32:30 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 11:37:20 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04c4d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:21 KDr2 [~kdr2@114.243.238.251] has joined #lisp 11:38:38 -!- Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-024-074-028-225.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:40:04 dbushenko [~dim@86.57.253.61] has joined #lisp 11:41:14 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@static-64-61-115-26.isp.broadviewnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:26 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@static-64-61-115-26.isp.broadviewnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:45:06 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46:31 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:47:12 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.224.77] has joined #lisp 11:47:27 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.155.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:48:45 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128146118.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 11:51:46 ahh it's a wonderful day 11:52:06 silenius [~silenius@i59F77CB9.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:53:24 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:53:58 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:56:33 -!- dbushenko [~dim@86.57.253.61] has left #lisp 11:57:10 am0c [~am0c@175.252.179.46] has joined #lisp 11:58:26 I see trees of green... red roses too... ;) 11:59:01 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:00:13 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:37 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac@183.129.147.44] has quit [] 12:02:24 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:02:30 ^5 12:02:47 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:02 Fade: ^5 :) 12:03:23 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:03:29 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit 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[~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:24 -!- jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30:24 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 12:32:14 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:38 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:32:58 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:10 ignas__ [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:38:59 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 12:39:20 -!- mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable162.45-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:40:33 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1520.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:53 hi 12:43:40 peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 12:45:57 -!- bobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:47:49 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 12:51:07 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 12:51:42 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@74.20.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:52:09 zwick [~zwick@12.200.95.45] has joined #lisp 12:54:41 jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has joined #lisp 12:56:25 -!- zwick [~zwick@12.200.95.45] has quit [Client Quit] 12:56:45 idle reading http://quimby.gnus.org/circus/notes/programming.html 12:56:58 zwick [~zwick@12.200.95.45] has joined #lisp 12:58:02 btw, hunchentoot is great, I have finished my "controler" application and even used twitter bootstrap and http://www.highcharts.com/ and some javascript to update the charts live etc, with my CL application exposing its live data as JSON text 12:58:13 it's awesome:) 12:58:37 did you use bootstrap from lisp, or were you working directly in JS/CSS 12:58:39 ? 12:58:54 oh the html/js etc is static 12:58:58 ah 12:59:00 so I did edit static files 12:59:50 I'm not doing a web app 13:00:07 just a little controler for a batch application that will run for days 13:00:28 so that I can delegate its controling 13:00:36 and that users can see what's happening and where we are 13:01:05 are you controlling a render queue? 13:01:47 the batch is moving 10 billions rows of data within 256 shards (re-sharding) 13:01:54 there's no render queue 13:01:55 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@112.198.218.230] has joined #lisp 13:01:58 (that I know of) 13:02:15 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81069E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:02:34 I'm just using 32 to 48 threads (a part is dynamic) to move data, and maintaining a *stats* global structure that I expose vbia hunchentoot, in JSON 13:02:47 and a javascripthtml file is making that JSON pretty 13:02:51 I meant rendering in the domain of ray tracing. 13:03:05 okay, no, I never did that kind of things 13:03:16 sanjoyd [sanjoyd@nat/google/x-lxeqrwjjgknatehr] has joined #lisp 13:03:16 -!- sanjoyd [sanjoyd@nat/google/x-lxeqrwjjgknatehr] has quit [Changing host] 13:03:17 sanjoyd [sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 13:03:23 10 billion rows, eh. 13:03:29 that's a pretty big database. 13:04:56 I'd say not really. 13:04:57 16 machines, 256 shards 13:05:06 I'd concur with pjb 13:05:18 it's a size where problem just begins 13:05:18 -!- lnostdal__ [~lnostdal@180.190.130.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:05:27 you could still do most things "manually" 13:05:35 Given current hardware. 13:05:38 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:05:42 and then again it depends on the budget and hardware 13:05:55 here it's AWS hosting, so it's big enough 13:06:25 anyway, unfortunately I don't know how much I can share about the innards of the project :( 13:09:02 -!- cfdm [~user@222.235.51.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:15:22 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.224.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:15:36 quazimodo 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[~kdas@114.143.163.120] has quit [Changing host] 13:41:14 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:43:52 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:47:14 -!- am0c [~am0c@175.252.179.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:27 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-zpnabtexfxozotvk] has joined #lisp 13:49:54 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-246-111.uio.no] has joined #lisp 13:51:14 *Xach* has a breakthrough of sorts in his S3 issue 13:53:28 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 13:55:03 -!- hugod [~user@76.65.142.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:57:52 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:12 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-zpnabtexfxozotvk] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 14:03:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:03:35 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-siuntueusuhvmwrw] has joined #lisp 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#lisp 14:25:27 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04c4d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:45 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-152.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:27:19 zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-drfvhzaflsfrlnyd] has joined #lisp 14:27:59 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-152.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:28:27 kliph [~user@144.92.35.150] has joined #lisp 14:28:28 So I have the problem when the data sent to the HMAC process in Ironclad is exactly 128 bytes. 14:28:28 -!- kliph [~user@144.92.35.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:37 *Xach* smells an edge case somewhere 14:28:42 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-152.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:02 kliph [~user@144.92.35.150] has joined #lisp 14:30:13 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-234-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:11 -!- kliph is now known as kliph` 14:31:27 -!- kliph` is now known as kliph 14:32:35 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:44 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:32:59 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:34:08 -!- kliph [~user@144.92.35.150] has quit [Changing host] 14:34:09 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:37:27 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.242.96] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 14:38:53 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@38.117.156.114] has joined #lisp 14:39:19 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@130-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:38 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.71] has joined #lisp 14:40:55 -!- ivan-kan` [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:41:12 -!- mmajchrzak [~smuxi@dynamic-84-40-254-110.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:41:15 how does your S3 issue manifest? 14:41:27 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:41:30 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 14:41:31 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:43:07 Fade: 403 errors and signature mismatches 14:44:13 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.95.50] has joined #lisp 14:46:15 the sol'n is to pad the data so it's always larger than 128 bytes? 14:46:45 That might be the solution if the problem is on Amazon's end and it's not easy to fix 14:46:51 At the moment, I suspect an ironclad problem 14:47:00 ahh. I misread 14:47:19 (morning 'fade) 14:47:28 heya, j_king 14:47:30 But the problem could be in something else, too...needs more problem isolation 14:47:42 *Xach* does differential hmac with Python 14:48:05 -!- zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-drfvhzaflsfrlnyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:34 zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-rlctslkmeztyaiyz] has joined #lisp 14:49:07 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@114.243.238.251] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:50 boo, ironclad and python hmac values match 14:53:35 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-152.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:53:45 That makes it really seem like Amazon is the problem, which also seems really unlikely 14:53:54 I've been having 403 problems with route53 python lib that I can't explain yet, if you're doing dns I would suppose the problem is on AWS side 14:54:08 dim: Not DNS, S3. 14:54:26 ok, the S3 part with boto (that python thing) was working for me 14:54:32 good luck, no more input :) 14:54:48 Guys 14:54:59 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.155.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 14:55:30 Anyone else with ZS3 and an amazon S3 account and a few minutes to try something for me? 14:55:51 I'll be doing a CL presentation at GeekcampSG in august. I have 30 minutes to make people see what makes CL different... 14:55:57 no acc't 14:56:07 I've been starting to write some slides. Anyone care to take a look and provide cirtisms? 14:56:43 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-246-111.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 14:56:52 -!- homie` is now known as homie 14:57:14 I suggest you livecode something small and interesting with emacs/slime/(lisp-implementation-type) 14:57:39 fade: yeah. perhaps. The thought has crossed my mind 14:57:56 I was thinking of making a web site on the fly 14:58:13 Remember though that I have only 30 minutes 14:58:16 when I finally decided to dive in to lisp, it was watching segv's slime movie that really finally convinced me there was something important there. 14:58:25 tcr1 [~tcr@46.42.79.139] has joined #lisp 14:58:38 so my goal was to give a 10 minute introduction to the syntax, and then focus on explaining how the language opens up the black box of parsing/compilation 14:58:51 Xach: installing zs3, what kind of test do you want me to do? 14:59:06 auth only, or auth+listing, or auth+fetch? 14:59:15 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-siuntueusuhvmwrw] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 14:59:19 Here's the presentation right now 14:59:19 https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1mIHAruC3nbI-CZPVjX7AuRp-bj9xjJima0l6XrHUI6Y/edit 14:59:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:00:48 loke: slime .. compile and disassemble a function .. write code with an error which you fix, recompile, and continue .. 15:00:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:01:00 oGMo: yeah 15:01:07 I've been thinking of that too 15:01:10 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.242.96] has joined #lisp 15:01:14 inspection/alteration in realtime 15:01:32 i mean this is all like Fade said .. dev something simple and show off the glitzy things 15:01:41 The problem is that it may be hard for people to understand what they are looking at 15:02:04 loke: where you talk about prefix ops in slide 5, use an example like (+ 1 2 3 4 5) or (reduce #'+ '(1 2 3 4 5)) to show the advantage of prefix notation. otherwise it just looks like it's different for no reason. /imo 15:02:05 loke: presumably you'll be explaining it to them 15:02:17 yeah that's why you are there heh :) 15:02:42 dardoria [~boiantz@130-204-55-104.2074625074.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:42 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-wdvmmzqpjqrqihys] has joined #lisp 15:03:19 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 15:03:25 it's unlikely many will understand the implications of the syntax and macros, but the dev process stuff should be easy 15:04:06 i agree that workflow is the most easily demonstrated advantage. 15:04:28 oGMo: yeah. But I was thinking of macros and syntax because that's where CL is different. Since I'm pressed for time, I don't actually have time to explain _how_ things work, but if I can explain _that_ certain things are possible it may whet their interetst. 15:04:32 it's difficult to get across the idea that the language isn't composed of character tokens 15:04:44 "fully compiles to machine code, yet has a repl. error occurs, yet i don't even have to restart the program." etc 15:05:01 mmm 15:05:06 I guess you're right 15:05:22 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:05:37 show some structured editing /w paredit to underline the idea that dlowe is talking about. 15:05:39 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:06:05 paredit isn't a bad idea (along with dimmed parens) just to show parens aren't really a concern 15:06:23 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-wdvmmzqpjqrqihys] has quit [Client Quit] 15:06:23 Ah yeah 15:06:28 dimmed parens is a good idea 15:06:53 assuming this is like _utter newbie_ intro stuff, not deep language philosophy stuff (macros) 15:07:16 People are tired of hearing about lisp macros 15:07:39 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:07:49 I think it leads to the thought "I've never needed lisp macros before, so I guess lisp isn't that interesting" 15:08:05 yeah 15:08:15 -!- dardoria [~boiantz@130-204-55-104.2074625074.ddns.cablebg.net] has left #lisp 15:08:18 they have definitely been over advertised by people who already know lisp. they probably don't track to anything a merely interested listener will immediately grok. 15:08:21 or... they get all fired up, come to #lisp, and hears "Macros? Try not to use those unless you have to." 15:08:26 buzz kil. 15:09:07 Hmm 15:09:11 loke: you might want to dedicate a slide to packages. Namespaces are a nice thing to advertise :) 15:09:31 they mean a lot to programmers who have to work in a global namespace all the time 15:09:34 My fear is the opposite actually... That I talk about something and they immediately think "I can do that already in my favourite language" 15:09:41 30 minutes is a short time to deal with a language as large as common lisp. 15:09:44 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-pzbnlskrlqhwtcfe] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:09:48 Fade: right 15:10:04 loke: they're right, of course. But they won't be able to do everything. 15:10:18 picking slime as the object of the presentation would definitely show them something they don't already have 15:10:30 CL has a pretty unique combination of things that amazingly don't conflict 15:10:38 dlowe: exactly, but that's why I wanted to address the customisable parser/macroexpander etc in Lisp, since it's beyond what any other language does 15:10:39 yeah this is why showing them the things that make day-to-day life as a dev so much easier to deal with is incentive to check out the "more interesting" features of lisp 15:10:51 Fade: the squeak and racket people would snicker at that 15:11:14 dlowe: I doubt there will be any squeak and racket people at the event 15:11:15 well, I wouldn't consider squeak/racket people a target audience of neophytes. 15:11:20 :) 15:11:41 Other talks are things like: "BlackMagic with Node.js and WebSockets" 15:11:48 "Cryptography: Why Bitcoin is safer than your bank?" 15:12:00 And "Building an iOS App: From Zero to App Store in 30 minutes(-ish)" 15:12:05 if you were already talking to people who dig on the lambda calc, the talk would probably not involve talking about 'hey look, it's lists all the way down!' 15:12:07 heh 15:12:24 yeah doesn't sound like the audience for macros at all 15:12:26 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-152.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:12:54 "hey check out i can make a webserver in 2 seconds and code a webapp without restarting it" 15:13:01 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.155.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:13:16 oGMo: Yeah maybe 15:13:24 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.155.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:32 But the people who are impressed by that might not be the people who would be interested in pursuing Lisp 15:13:58 "hey, I can change the slots in this object class in a compiled and running program" 15:14:22 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-175.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:14:25 underline some of the surprising things that are available 15:14:28 well .. sortof. people who attend these sorts of things are unlikely to care about language philosophy; they want to get things done .. the quicker the better. showing them how lisp is amazingly useful is what they will care about 15:14:48 if they get macros later out of the deal .. cool 15:14:52 a slime presentation is pretty good for that 15:15:02 Yeah 15:15:08 redefining classes in a running image really astounded me the first time I saw it. 15:15:13 Perhaps a bit of slime, some defuns and DISASSEMBLE 15:15:14 Fade: yeah that is another huge thing 15:15:19 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:15:27 Showing how adding type declarations can create super-optimised code 15:15:33 I couldn't believe it actually worked. 15:15:38 change a class definition without restarting and show the effects would likely be a :O 15:15:52 I liked conditions and restarts, esp. wrt slime 15:16:02 C-c C-c, redefine a function, continue; that's saved me a couple CPU-years by now, I think. 15:16:07 j_king: too complicated to explain, I think 15:16:13 I spent an hour in the slime inspector convincing myself I wasn't imagining things, and then I noticed how unbelievably useful the slime inspector was in practicce. 15:16:41 Fade: yeah, but any debugger for most languages has the same, so it lacks the "punch" :-) 15:16:42 loke: type declarations may be over the top except to demonstrate that lisp has "type safety" 15:17:18 although some type inferencing stuff might be cool, but still might be hard to understand 15:17:21 'you don't have to have static types to have strong ones.' 15:17:47 oGMo: I did impress some colleagues with the type inference and declarations 15:17:51 they were wowed by it 15:17:56 loke: seen siebel's google presentation? it could be much more succinct if shown then told. 15:18:00 So I guess I could wow the audience as well 15:18:13 j_king: I watched it. Again just now actually 15:18:23 gee whiz beats pedagogy in almost every case. 15:18:30 as a general rule for presentation. 15:18:41 j_king: I'm not entirely happy with it though. I suppose it works with a Googler audience since you can expect a certain level of intelligence 15:18:48 *j_king* nods. 15:18:54 loke: yeah a few times sbcl has been like "this can't be the type i want here" with zero type declarations is a good demonstration of "sufficiently-smart compiler" heh 15:18:57 However, I find his presentation tends to linger for way too long on irrelevant things :-) 15:20:05 slide 10 is wrong. 15:20:08 Fade: yeah but even the gee whiz features we're talking about make day-to-day life so much better .. not stuff you won't use much 15:20:25 except maybe disassemble, but that's just to "prove" compilation heh 15:20:30 fade how? 15:20:36 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-29-160.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:51 well, you define a function foo that takes a parameter x then you do some list ops on x 15:21:06 which is referring to something in the indicated output that isn't what I expect. 15:21:12 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04c4d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:21:14 fade: No, the line on the top is what "x" contains 15:21:37 that wasn't obvious in the slide. 15:21:38 fade: I indended to make it clear is speech, but perhaps I should make it clear in the slide, too 15:21:41 Agreed 15:21:45 I'll have to change that 15:21:47 I just remember being impressed by catching a condition at the repl, inspect the objects' slots' values that caused the error, updating the class definition and invoking the restart and see the code working. 15:22:09 interesting. i didn't realise this was a live app 15:22:19 *Fade* watches loke update it 15:22:19 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-13.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:22:36 change the parameter to foo to something that isn't x 15:22:40 That's what I like about Google Docs 15:22:59 AeroNotix [~xeno@bdf241.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:23:37 all without losing state and having to restart everything 15:24:51 er.. s/restart/recompile, setup, and run the program until it finds itself in the state that caused the original condition/ 15:25:34 also, images are kinda a neat way to work. 15:25:55 Damn, if I had a half-day for this, I could cover all of this :-) 15:26:03 =) 15:26:07 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-kofwwzhkzogufblh] has joined #lisp 15:26:12 true that. 15:26:45 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.242.96] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 15:26:49 take a 'highlights of the really interesting things' approach in the presentation, and put up a codicil of links for further reading 15:26:52 i always find myself with an uber-long presentation that I have to pare (pair?) down. 15:27:05 pare. 15:27:06 pare 15:27:27 It's been a while since I last wrote a presentation 15:27:51 and the last _real_ presentation for a 100+ people audience was... man... over 10 years ago 15:28:16 pear 15:28:25 peer 15:28:33 pier 15:31:11 zealousJavelin [~niksaak@94.27.88.164] has joined #lisp 15:31:36 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:31:52 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has joined #lisp 15:34:25 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:35:16 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD7577.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:46 "I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier, the last of Barrett's privateers" 15:36:49 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:37:42 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:38:21 *drewc* is singing that sea shanty because 'pier' was said here ... apologies for tainting #lisp with the words! ;) 15:39:17 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 15:39:38 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:41:36 krfantasy [~krfantasy@123.159.57.45] has joined #lisp 15:41:59 -!- krfantasy [~krfantasy@123.159.57.45] has left #lisp 15:43:39 ynniv [~ynniv@c-50-133-193-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.4.239] has joined #lisp 15:44:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.4.239] has quit [Changing host] 15:44:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:44:54 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:45:12 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 15:45:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 15:46:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:48:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.4.239] has joined #lisp 15:48:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.4.239] has quit [Changing host] 15:48:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:50:59 asvil [~asvil@178.121.90.238] has joined #lisp 15:55:50 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:57:18 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:58:31 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:59:15 benny [~benny@i577A3319.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:01 Heya, drewc 16:04:39 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.204.90] has joined #lisp 16:07:35 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:21 Fade: also do a little "batch" app then include hunchentoot and a web controler 16:08:33 dim: still up for testing? 16:08:36 cfdm [~user@222.235.51.254] has joined #lisp 16:08:37 bootstrap css/js etc and you have a nice looking web app 16:08:57 Xach: sure, just back with the kids, keyboard access granted, I don't know how long that will last :) 16:09:40 dim: (setf zs3:*credentials* (list )) to get set up for auth 16:09:50 dim: then see if (zs3:all-buckets) works 16:10:41 ok, let's do that 16:11:59 it does work for me, yes 16:12:02 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:01 can you try this: (zs3:get-vector "x" (make-string 89 :initial-element #\a)) 16:14:37 SignatureDoesNotMatch: The request signature we calculated does not match the signature you provided. Check 16:14:45 thanks. 16:15:03 it's not just my keys, then 16:15:53 happy to help 16:16:08 for once I'm not the one asking here :) 16:16:23 Good morning/afternoon/evening Fade 16:16:27 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:18:21 Xach: I have an S3 account and I have a wee bit of time if you need me to test things out 16:19:07 Xach: Hi. I have small stumpwm (window manager) module for storing keyboard layout per window. This module also contain small part of x11 xkeyboard extension for clx. What do you think about using quicklisp as storage of stumpwm modules?:) 16:19:40 mmajchrzak [~smuxi@host-81-190-228-83.wroclaw.mm.pl] has joined #lisp 16:21:19 -!- arkw [~ark@cm-110-171-106-83.revip7.asianet.co.th] has left #lisp 16:23:19 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-xohwqzwjtimwnisy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:25:18 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:26:47 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@46.42.79.139] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:26:54 drewc: thanks. i think i'm set, but i'll let you know 16:26:59 asvil: are they asdf-loadable? 16:27:27 ikki [~ikki@187.193.179.27] has joined #lisp 16:31:33 -!- cfdm [~user@222.235.51.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:01 clx-xkeyboard yes. so, may I make issue on github 16:32:26 hmm 16:32:36 would someone know that it is a stumpwm module? 16:32:37 -!- wingy [~wingie@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has left #lisp 16:32:40 that sounds like a clx module to me 16:33:21 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 16:34:13 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.135.74] has joined #lisp 16:34:50 yes, but it is only small part of xkeyboard, because the extension is complexity 16:36:35 ok 16:47:01 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:47:05 there was talk a while back of using a quicklisp dist for stumpwm contrib modules 16:48:10 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-024-074-028-225.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:48:18 That would be welome. 16:48:21 welcome, even. 16:49:17 but this keyboard extension sounds like it could just be contributed directly to clx 16:49:55 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:56 df_: there are small modules for clx and for stumpwm 16:51:15 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:53:23 https://github.com/filonenko-mikhail/clx-xkeyboard 16:55:38 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 16:58:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.135.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59:30 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:46 hooray, it looks like my fault after all 17:00:20 the best bugs are your own, because you can fix them? 17:00:35 Yes. 17:00:40 yes 17:00:43 Second best are in free code. 17:00:50 Hence AGPL3, for things like S3. 17:00:59 Is S3 under AGPL3? 17:01:33 No. 17:01:43 So I'm right not being concerned with it. 17:02:18 -!- mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-165-159.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:02:47 You're ALWAYS right. 17:02:53 How could it be otherwise? 17:02:59 You're right! :-) 17:03:10 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.135.74] has joined #lisp 17:03:24 -!- ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:03:47 Well, not always, there have been a few occurences where I was wrong and changed my mind. 17:04:04 But it obviously should be an exponential process, and occur less and less. 17:04:09 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:19 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:04:41 The Long Tail of Error 17:07:43 The Long Tail of Diminished Error 17:07:46 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@c-50-133-193-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ynniv] 17:11:24 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 17:13:02 ynniv [~ynniv@c-50-133-193-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:48 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-kofwwzhkzogufblh] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 17:13:48 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14:05 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:22 AGPL3? I need to read about yet another licence then 17:20:26 mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-165-159.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:20:41 cheezus [~Adium@bas2-toronto36-1088721149.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:20:53 *dim* is used to MIT, BSDen, GPL, LGPL, WTFPL, ISC, some Creative Commons, and that's about it 17:20:56 dim: AGPL3 is GPL3 for web site: you must be able to download the sources of the web sites you use. 17:21:25 S3 is not a website though, or is it by the AGPL3 text? 17:21:40 The GNU Affero General Public License is a free, copyleft license for software and other kinds of works, specifically designed to ensure cooperation with the community in the case of network server software. 17:21:42 mm 17:22:19 dim: shortly speaking - it's the license you use to blackmail users into buying commercial license 17:22:48 because it redefines who is the user of the code and how 17:22:55 Well, "web site" is a category. Any software you use remotely, that is, any software that touches your data, you should have access to. 17:22:57 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:23:00 quite possibly undefendable in many places 17:23:07 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:43 *p_l* would rather like amending WIPO into something *sane* instead o fthta 17:23:45 brb 17:24:21 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 17:24:52 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:30 -!- mmajchrzak [~smuxi@host-81-190-228-83.wroclaw.mm.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:25:34 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:27:45 pnq [~nick@ACA2047B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:28:25 pjb: so AGPL is about bringing GPL to SaaS offers and the like? 17:29:05 Yes 17:29:17 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 17:30:11 p_l: well, the problem is indeed that you have little garantee that the code proposed is the code that's actually running. That's the reason why you should have it, so that you can run it on your own servers. And yes, that may not be possible for network effects. 17:30:31 But then people can discriminate and only use networks where you can run your own code, eg. IRC vs. iChat. 17:31:28 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: cya] 17:34:17 I just read about python "the only language with more web frameworks than keywords", and I wonder just how many keywords we have (if any) in common-lisp 17:34:49 dim: the question is somewhat meaningless in CL. 17:34:50 none, really. We have CL symbols, but they're all in the CL package 17:34:57 there are 978 symbols exported from CL. 17:35:11 Those aren't really "keywords," though 17:35:13 there are 25 special operators. 17:35:14 keywords usually means that you can't use them in "user" code 17:35:16 and how many from keyword ;) 17:35:31 oGMo: infinite. alpha-0 17:35:48 my guess would be that by that phrase earlier, a single web framework already places CL on-par with python 17:35:53 pjb: ;) 17:36:07 Isn't that aleph-0? 17:36:44 Yes, that's what I was thinking about. 17:36:49 pjb: so your reference to AGPL3 is about "I want free software on the cloud too" or do you really mean that very licence (gpl-like, viral) 17:36:53 (i know it's basically the same letter, but in a different alphabet) 17:37:02 X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 17:37:22  17:37:38 -!- mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-165-159.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:38:14 dim: think about it. MIT/BSD doesn't force people using them to provide their sources. 17:38:31 -!- EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:38:46 so it's all about *forcing* people into "well" behaving? 17:39:11 in reality, except for rather small group, AGPL is more about forcing people to buy commercial license (in practice) 17:39:12 I mean is it ok to "just" have access to the actual sources if they are under a BSD/MIT like licence? 17:39:20 I don't know, I only observe that you usually don't have access to the sources of the web sites you're using. 17:39:38 I mean to understand your point of view because I'm somehow torn between PostgreSQL BSD like licence and Emacs GPL 17:39:41 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.74] has joined #lisp 17:40:11 I'm more partial to GPL2 than AGPL 17:40:40 is there a "famous" software distributed with the AGPL? 17:40:52 dim: most are dual licensed 17:40:58 com.informatimago.common-lisp. 17:40:58 AGPL/commercial 17:41:22 dim: bacula 17:41:22 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d86bc49.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:27 mongodb 17:41:36 EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:36 mongodb is dual licensed 17:41:40 otrs, owncloud 17:42:07 pjb: the idea is to force users of your code to publish it even if they build web services with it, right? 17:42:23 publish it, I mean their own code/modifications 17:42:26 bacula I'm pretty sure is a case of "don't care", because you aren't exposing it outside... and demanding the viral effect on that would land you with "your license terms were deemed invalid under law" 17:42:26 yes 17:42:53 Probably. 17:42:55 I suppose that the GPL weird code binding rules apply to lisp code in being viral to any code using your libs in the same lisp image 17:43:22 even when all the "upper" code is doing is using your APIs after all 17:43:36 the linking part has always been strange to me 17:43:51 there's special rules for lisp 17:43:58 dim: ignoring the definition of "linking", macros can be a problem for the GPL as i understand it 17:44:02 in the GPL or the AGPL? 17:44:04 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.204.90] has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 17:44:27 oh, macros. sure. 17:44:32 similar to the GPL issue with bison 17:44:41 your code is now a direct product of the lib... 17:44:47 LLGPL 17:44:51 dlowe: only if you use a special license adapted to lisp, or use code with an exception clause 17:44:55 like yes, llgpl 17:44:59 afaik GPL2 linking terms cover any use in Lisp, unless you ue a trick like CLISP 17:45:16 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.204.90] has joined #lisp 17:45:25 (where you technically make the user perform the binding... and it's tenous at best) 17:45:33 well, WTFPL or 2-clauses BSD or MIT and the like would work if you're into LLGPL I guess? 17:46:05 dim: WTFPL, 2-clause BSD and MIT is basically public domain + no warranty clause 17:46:10 apache license is nice 17:46:20 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-utsozrweipckknfw] has joined #lisp 17:46:31 WTFPL is basically public domain + no warranty + just do what you want 17:46:44 polite WTFPL is ISC, used by OpenBSD 17:46:45 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:53 beerware 17:47:05 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:31 dim: public domain is "just do what you want, as long as you don't falsify clims about authorship and copyright" 17:47:51 have a look at WTFPL :) 17:47:58 dim: I did 17:48:04 public domain is actually very ill-specified internationally 17:48:11 dlowe: depends on country 17:48:13 that's advice you should give your IP lawyer 17:48:19 dlowe: that's why there's WTFPL 17:48:37 p_l: that's what I said. dim: yes, exactly. 17:48:56 There are numerous countries that have *no* concept of public domain. 17:49:09 also, if you want some sanity in copyright internationally, petition for changes to WIPO 17:49:11 (which includes Poland) 17:49:18 antoszka: poland has it 17:49:22 dlowe: yes we are in agreement 17:49:35 brb - I'll explin later 17:49:46 p_l: Not as far as I know  you cannot disclaim the original copyright. 17:50:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-98.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:50:18 p_l: See http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domena_publiczna 17:50:48 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:51:12 antoszka: you can't disclaim *authorship* 17:51:24 Poland has separate "copy" and "author" right 17:51:54 copyright is the right to control copying etc. basically monetary, material rights 17:52:07 no 17:52:08 which got twisted over time horribly rom their initial purpose 17:52:25 authorship rights were "who is the author" 17:52:43 But that's not a #lisp discussion anymore, so let's take it two windows to the right. 17:52:49 :) 17:52:55 which is? 17:53:01 p_l: #lisp-pl :) 17:53:34 (i got #emacs in between) 17:53:41 ah 17:54:09 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 17:55:58 mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-165-159.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:59:58 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:20 -!- wahjava [cleve@fsf/member/wahjava] has quit [Quit: Whenever we are together, its always estatically palpitating!] 18:04:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:06:58 mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:08:14 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:22 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2047B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:09:48 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:26 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-234-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:10:27 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:11:44 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:11:51 -!- mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:54 -!- gilez [~gdmalet@tux.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:10 mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:12:43 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:15:32 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 18:16:12 milanj [~milanj_@178.223.170.236] has joined #lisp 18:16:53 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Client Quit] 18:21:03 froydnj: Halloa! 18:21:22 Xach: yo! 18:21:46 froydnj: I think my problem might be with ironclad. Just so I understand correctly, should a set of updates to an HMAC produce identical results to a single update with the concatenation of the incremental updates? 18:22:49 Xach: i.e. (progn (update-hmac s1) (update-hmac s2)) is the same as (update-hmac (concatenate s1 s2)) ? 18:22:55 (in awful incorrect lisp) 18:23:01 froydnj: yes 18:23:15 Xach: if it's not, that'd be a problem, I should think 18:23:25 froydnj: I have some code that demonstrates a problem, i think. 18:23:27 Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has joined #lisp 18:23:28 *Xach* pastes 18:23:42 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.204.90] has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 18:24:50 -!- Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has quit [Client Quit] 18:25:11 froydnj: http://paste.lisp.org/display/130275 18:25:36 froydnj: it's not clear from the code, but the total octet count is exactly 128, and i have no problems if it's 127 or 129 18:27:08 Xach: sbcl? ironclad 0.30 or git master? 18:27:42 sbcl 1.0.55+, ironclad 0.30 and git master 18:27:55 64-bit, linux 18:28:02 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has joined #lisp 18:28:03 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has quit [Changing host] 18:28:03 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 18:29:14 *froydnj* takes a quick debugging look 18:30:25 i can probably simplify the example if it helps 18:30:47 I'm not sure what the pattern is - if I add each individual byte in its own vector, it seems to produce the expected result. 18:33:07 -!- ignas__ [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:34:25 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:00 gilez [~gdmalet@tux.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:35:11 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has joined #lisp 18:35:11 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has quit [Changing host] 18:35:11 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 18:35:46 -!- cheezus [~Adium@bas2-toronto36-1088721149.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:36:38 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:37:41 Xach: yup, it's a bug in ironclad. the detailed bug report helped! 18:40:41 froydnj: and, what's the problem? off-by-one when counting data? 18:41:11 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@bdf241.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 18:41:51 froydnj: phew! i was going nutty thinking it was an amazon problem or a problem in drakma, puri, or my code 18:42:11 flip214: failure to update some state appropriately when we had a partial block and then hashed a partial block (that finished a block) + N > 0 full blocks 18:42:20 ah, thanks 18:43:01 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:43:19 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has joined #lisp 18:43:19 well, between edi, kmr, Xach, and myself, I know where I'd put the bets on bugs... 18:43:44 Xach: FWIW I did my tests with CCL linux 64 bits 18:43:55 I think it was 64, lmk if you want me to check 18:44:37 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.204.90] has joined #lisp 18:44:46 oh apparently the bug is already on its way to being fixed :) 18:44:49 froydnj: i'm pretty puzzled because this problem didn't manifest itself until recently. i didn't think ironclad had changed that much in that timeframe. and i thought i went back and tried an older ironclad and still had the problem. 18:45:11 i'm sure i missed something 18:45:35 Xach: the problematic commit is 15a5721f2e 18:45:51 "maybe amazon has a problem" is my new "maybe the compiler has a problem"...possible, but not especially likely 18:46:04 which looks like it made its debut in 0.29 18:47:05 *Xach* scratches head, has no clue why it seemed to present a problem only in the past 90 days 18:47:44 CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:48:29 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 18:50:03 Xach: fixed in new push to github, b67b021. thanks for the report! 18:50:28 thanks for the quick fix! 18:50:44 froydnj: is ironclad from git ok to bundle up in quicklisp? or do you intend to make a new release sometime soon? 18:51:44 Xach: I intend to make a release soon; sooner if I can get confirmation from a LW user (preferably using >= 6.0) that current master works OK for them 18:51:56 Xach: when does the next quicklisp release come out? 18:52:01 I hope to do it very soon 18:52:06 This problem has been blocking me, actually. 18:52:21 froydnj: Could be first weekend in July 18:52:34 *Xach* has a wedding and 4th birthday party this weekend 18:52:55 How many birthdays can you have in a week? Seriously, that sounds unreasonable. 18:53:08 Xach: I will put out 0.31 on or before this upcoming sunday 18:54:01 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.204.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:54:39 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@c-50-133-193-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:54:39 sounds great, thanks! 18:54:53 ynniv [~ynniv@c-50-133-193-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:01 Xach: sorry for the debugging pain! 18:55:09 just 4 bits difference ... 18:55:32 Xach: your wedding by chance? 18:55:41 -!- EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:55:47 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:29 flip214: Mine was many years ago. It is for a friend. My wife is the matron of honor. 18:57:30 (aref #(xach-wedding not-xach-wedding) (random 2)) 18:58:11 Xach: I still have a hard time believing that you've got a teenage child ... you're younger than me 18:58:31 Good, because I haven't got one. 18:58:32 well, good luck to everyone -- seems to be needed in today's world. 18:58:48 Xach: Give it time and you will. 18:59:06 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:59:41 Here's hoping. 18:59:43 http://xach.livejournal.com/308395.html says "This is a series of short Lisp tutorials I recently wrote to help my teenage daughter learn Lisp. " 19:00:01 so, where's my misunderstanding? 19:00:13 my oldest is 11... 19:00:27 Perhaps it's a forward-looking statement. 19:00:33 a, perhaps a step-child? 19:02:08 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.179.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:02:54 flip214: the text is a quote, Xach didn't write it 19:02:56 flip214: the indented portion is a quote from someone else's website. 19:03:06 I was confused the same 19:03:22 the planet lisp makes it hard to spot as a quote 19:03:30 lemonodor [~lemonodor@mobile-198-228-211-038.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:43 actually livejournal too 19:03:44 ah ... indentation but no quotes. I thought that the first sentence is a kind of header... 19:03:50 -!- gilez [~gdmalet@tux.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:59 Xach: well, good luck nonetheless. 19:04:11 (with parenthood, that is) 19:06:11 ozialien [~ozi@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:00 http://www.flickr.com/photos/xach/6971081797/ appeared on my Boston Lisp Meeting slides under "progress is slow" 19:09:42 ikki [~ikki@187.193.197.165] has joined #lisp 19:09:59 well, not too long, and they can help _you_ with that ;) 19:10:30 Xach: at their age, my father was already teaching me boolean algerba. 19:10:33 bra 19:11:02 a bra? sounds useful. 19:11:15 SF needs a Lisp meeting 19:11:28 although I think that even small children know how to work around a bra ... 19:11:41 simple sounds are sufficient most of the time, for example. 19:14:09 ebobby: there's a bay area lispers meeting 19:14:49 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:14:52 flip214: dunno, I suspect taking it off one handed might be harder 19:14:58 Xach: yeah, ive attended twice, and although they are very interesting, they are quite apart from one another and a lot of discussion about clojure going on 19:17:07 I do not mean to disregard clojure as a good language or its relationship to Lisp if any, but there are clojure meetings :) I'd love something more scheme/common lisp centric. Specially where people could shre their learning experience (I am just learning lisp/scheme). 19:18:33 I like Common Lisp topics more, too 19:19:28 *nicdev* looking forward to Boston meeting on Thurs 19:20:06 accursed wedding :( 19:21:25 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.204.90] has joined #lisp 19:21:43 *Xach* fixes the calendar 19:21:58 tcr [~tcr@46.42.73.192] has joined #lisp 19:23:37 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 19:25:41 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 19:30:29 hohum_ [~user@adsl-074-186-199-086.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:16 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:38:12 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A20C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:38:19 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@c-50-133-193-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:33 ynniv [~ynniv@c-50-133-193-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:07 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 19:40:20 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Quit: http://www.cyphase.com/] 19:40:52 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.59.73] has joined #lisp 19:42:03 ninuzzo [~ant@dynamic-adsl-94-38-113-10.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:43:48 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 19:44:12 I know I should announce my little project on #lispweb, but there is almost nobody there :) http://ninuzzo.github.com/hyde 19:46:20 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:44 ninuzzo: checking it out 19:48:01 you know that the python static site generator is called hyde? 19:51:08 seems you know that 19:51:11 ninuzzo: what kind of site is it geared to? For example, I mostly just pound markdown in emacs. What would it do for my workload? (also, there's a slightly line-wrapping issue with the menu at the top) 19:51:23 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:39 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.95.50] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 19:51:52 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A20C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:17 Yes I know, but Hyde is not a copyrighted name :) 19:52:35 It is not a lightweight markup language. You can use the whole HTML5 19:52:41 with a Lispy syntax 19:52:53 ok, question: if I had...... rather a lot of posts, would your hyde be able to do a really smart incremental build? 19:53:05 yes, you can build a single directory 19:53:13 just by requesting it via web 19:53:24 will it only rebuild part of that directory if only part of it changes? 19:53:49 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:14 it builds the file that have changed in the whole directory. If you want a finer selection, you should organize your site in a tree of subdirectories 19:54:23 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:04 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:55:24 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:44 The most important thing: you can script the HTML directly learning a bit of Lisp. No need for plugins and interfaces 20:03:20 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d86bc49.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:07:21 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d86bc49.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:50 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:10:19 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:10:25 what about just producing a static html website? 20:11:07 I use Emacs Muse and a little amount of elisp scripting myself, it works real well (tapoueh.org, see http://tapoueh.org/tapoueh.el.html for the scripting) 20:12:54 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d86bc49.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:13:16 That is probably a good choice for Emacs users, but I do not know what offers in detail. Anyway Hyde is not coupled to any editor and has an HTTP server that re-generates the HTML code on the first request or for a whole directory, plus a small library of facilities 20:14:51 for Emacs users there's also o-blog nowadays, http://renard.github.com/o-blog/who-uses.html 20:15:10 ninuzzo: sounds interesting, I have to have a look 20:15:19 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Quit: ] 20:15:34 I'm more geared toward ease of content editing and publishing static sites myself, but well :) 20:15:43 I wasn't too happy with muse back in the day. octopress is pretty good though 20:16:06 Same experience as antifuchs. That was many years ago, though. 20:17:21 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 20:18:36 poisonarms [~poisonarm@cpe-66-68-80-227.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:19:28 Well, I often create my own functions and macros to ease HTML hand-writing, capturing repeated patterns and such. I wanted an easy way to generate tags from Lisp and also a fast generator. Hyde tag functions return strings and static files are not copied and updated as Jekyll does 20:20:49 ninuzzo: how is this different from all the other lispy html generators? 20:21:08 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@38.117.156.114] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 20:21:18 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:20 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD7577.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:22:25 The other are just libraries. You have to provide makefiles and write them manually. E.g. CL-WHO generates code and is slower, but there is no include mechanism 20:22:38 Hyde adds modularity to HTML 20:23:29 which webserver is included? 20:24:00 I tried to compile my app including hunchentoot with ECL but it failed, I did that quickly though and don't remember which dependency did fail to compile with ECL 20:24:11 might have been in another part of the dependency graph 20:24:25 well, ok I need to a. sleep and b. get back with real information 20:24:26 cheers 20:24:39 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@mobile-198-228-211-038.mycingular.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:25:39 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:39 paul0 [~paul0@189.26.139.66.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 20:25:39 I tried too. Since hunchentoot does not work, I had to implement my own toy server. It is only for development, so it doesn't matter if it is insecure and basic. Good night 20:25:52 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:25:58 I was tempted to implement my ideas in Scheme Racket 20:26:12 but I like some CL stuff, e.g. the for loop construct 20:26:35 ninuzzo: make files? 20:26:35 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:26:53 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.26.139.66.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Client Quit] 20:27:10 For instance, how do you update all files that have changed if you don't remember what you have changed? 20:27:36 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:27:45 if you test each change immediately you do not need that 20:28:14 but sometimes you just want to make sure everything is up-to-date, e.g. befory rsync-ing or commit-ting your site 20:28:40 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:28:55 kmxx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 20:29:24 -!- kmxx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee] 20:29:50 you have to use a makefile or other facility to do that 20:29:59 kmxx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 20:30:04 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:30:05 hyde "makes" a directory when you request it 20:30:22 so you issue a make command through your browser 20:30:27 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@c-50-133-193-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:46 ynniv [~ynniv@c-50-133-193-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:10 hello. is there no with-collect macro in alexandria? is it named differently? 20:32:25 -!- ltbarcly2 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-66-251.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:33:51 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0243.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:37:27 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:37:38 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-66-251.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:40 -!- Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-024-074-028-225.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:38:06 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-024-074-028-225.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:39:10 -!- zag [~user@c75-109-165-199.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:42 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:51 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d86bc49.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:42 Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-250-130.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:27 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 20:45:27 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 20:45:28 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 20:47:26 -!- Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-024-074-028-225.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:49:36 -!- zwick [~zwick@12.200.95.45] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:51:09 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:53:02 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has joined #lisp 20:53:14 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:54:16 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:54:36 BrokenCog [~BrokenCog@adsl-74-243-160-125.ard.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:16 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d86bc49.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:55:43 hello ... I would like to try cells-gtk on clisp, however I'm having a hard time understanding the path to edit in the "load.lisp" file. Anyone using this library? 20:56:37 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 20:56:38 no 20:57:11 -!- zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-rlctslkmeztyaiyz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:58 kanru [~kanru@84.124.36.50.static.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:25 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0243.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 21:01:29 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:01:37 ninuzzo: you use asdf, that's how. But I guess hyde is like more like html-template in the sense that they're not really Lisp code files, but some other template language that happens to use sexp? 21:02:34 No, there is no other language. You use Common Lisp. Everything is tag, that is a function 21:03:03 I guess I'm confused as to why there's any talk of make files instead of just using asdf. 21:03:08 There are examples on site, e.g. http://localhost:8080/faq.html#menu 21:03:21 You have to write ASDF files by hand 21:03:26 that is a hassle 21:03:41 both ASDF and makefiles are a hassle to write and maintain 21:03:47 if you say so 21:03:56 Hyde provides an automatic make facility 21:04:11 So it's incompatible with the rest of the lisp world? 21:04:17 it tracks dependencies amongst source files. 21:04:37 Well, you cannot have it both ways. You have to use "inc" instead of "load" 21:04:57 because that function adds dependency tracking and more 21:05:10 but you can still use all the rest of common lisp 21:05:36 So "inc" includes ASDF systems? 21:05:37 there are some library functions provided by Hyde which are not standard, but any other CL module isn't too 21:05:50 no, inc just includes a file like load 21:05:55 a file can include another file 21:06:00 dependencies are automatically tracked 21:06:13 You could look at xcvb, which does per-file inclusion, has ASDF compatibility, and rebuilds everything that needs to be rebuilt. 21:06:49 but do you have to write .asdf files or they get generated automatically? 21:07:29 whether I use ASDF or not that is just an implementation detail. I do not want to worry about writing makefiles or .asdf files :) 21:07:36 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:41 Like I said, it's per-file inclusion. 21:07:53 so you put the dependencies at the top of the file. 21:08:03 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:08:09 in Hyde you do not have to put any dependencies 21:08:41 provided you always use inc instead of load to load your template/include/layout files 21:08:46 What about "inc"?... 21:09:00 it is just a shortcut for "include", a sort of include tag missing in HTML 21:09:02 right 21:09:25 e.g. I may have a layout file 21:09:48 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.197.227] has joined #lisp 21:09:49 that contains (inc "header.lisp") and (inc "footer.lisp") 21:10:01 then an index.lisp file contains (inc "layout.lisp") 21:10:27 well, while Hyde processes the index.lisp file for the first time 21:10:46 in order to generate the HTML versions, it sees the dependencies and records them 21:11:15 if you change any other included file later, index.html will be regenerated 21:11:35 BTW the hyde's project web site 21:11:52 is made with hyde itself and its source code is found on github 21:12:00 nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-136-21-70.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:12:24 https://github.com/ninuzzo/hyde/tree/gh-pages 21:12:41 ninuzzo: would you please point to the site? 21:12:44 ah 21:12:58 ninuzzo.github.com/hyde 21:14:23 thx 21:14:36 It is also worth reading the TODO list: https://github.com/ninuzzo/hyde/blob/master/TODO 21:14:45 this is stuff I plan to implement 21:14:56 especially raw strings 21:15:20 s-exprs are often criticised against HTML syntax just because of that 21:16:05 I am looking for help, it is too big for me only and I am Lisp beginner too 21:16:27 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:17:33 -!- Riviera [~Riviera@92.51.147.16] has quit [Quit: :)] 21:17:49 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@d149031.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:18:29 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.82.19] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 21:21:34 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.59.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:23:19 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1520.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:23:35 AeroNotix [~xeno@bdf241.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:25:32 DataLinkDroid [~DataLink@120.152.67.140] has joined #lisp 21:25:34 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@74.20.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:25:38 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:27:30 cnl [~cnl@95.106.55.40] has joined #lisp 21:28:49 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:30:00 " s-exprs are often criticised against HTML syntax just because of that" because of what? 21:31:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-98.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:31:24 e.g. if you have to write a long paragraph you can just put it inside

...

tags. In Lisp you have to take care of escaping any \" inside the string 21:31:38 and also escape \ into \\ 21:31:56 adding a raw string mode in Lisp would fix that 21:32:10 ninuzzo: > 21:32:15 so that you can copy and paste text without worrying about escapes 21:32:30 for that I have a (cont ...) facility 21:32:44 but yes, that would be enabled by default in the raw string mode 21:33:10 zmv [~zmv@186.204.123.135] has joined #lisp 21:33:11 anyway I want to address and solve all criticism directed towards s-exprs against SGML-like syntax 21:33:18 ninuzzo you could use (p "First part") (p "Second part") 21:33:41 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.90.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:33:43 yes, but what if First part is a long string? 21:34:00 and contains <, >, &, \ and " 21:34:28 (p (html-escape first-part)) 21:34:34 ninuzzo: I believe there are ~2-3 triple quotes reader macros implementations on lisppaste. 21:35:24 I still have to choose one, thanks, I will search there too 21:35:38 Yes, in Hyde there is already html-escape 21:35:47 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@c-50-133-193-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ynniv] 21:36:18 e.g. PHP has nowdocs, I want that too. 21:36:38 So one can just copy and paste inside a "nowdoc" or raw string 21:37:01 perl has here docs too. very handy, but also can be messy 21:37:15 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@74.20.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:37:50 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:38:37 I know. One should use normal strings for short strings and heredocs or alike just to avoid a lot of escape work. Cum grano salis, my ancestors said :) 21:38:46 ninuzzo: I think I'm working on something similar as your hyde, though I took the route of implementing a custom language 21:39:24 http://lisperator.net/sytes/  but heavily work in progress, source still unpublished. alas, I'm eating my own dogfood while working on the website ;) 21:40:16 that is a good way to put your design to the test. But why do you think a custom language is better than extending Lisp? 21:40:56 Aside from the admonishments of Section 11.1.2.3.2 "Notes about The KEYWORD Package" are there other potential downsides to interning lots of keywords? 21:41:07 templating language for the web? or you not just reinventing PHP 21:41:16 or/are 21:41:22 Guthur: that's exactly what I'm doing, yeah... 21:41:40 ok fair enough 21:41:46 just checking, hehe 21:41:53 ninuzzo: usually you don't need the full power of CL while writing text. I might be wrong, but this already works for me pretty well.. ;) 21:42:06 Maybe, but you can never know 21:42:45 e.g. I have a macro to generate a TOC here http://ninuzzo.github.com/hyde/documentation.html#macros 21:42:48 -!- CrazyEddy [~complier@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:43:03 scroll down to the last piece of code 21:43:46 There is no reason to limit what one can do. It can be dangerous and makes some people angry :) 21:44:15 maybe a provider can have a reason, but you are generating your own website, why limit yourself? 21:44:18 hey, I have macros too :p 21:44:56 so, you just limit the template syntax, but can make up for that with macros? 21:46:00 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Killed (marienz (forcing a reconnect))] 21:46:08 -!- tcr [~tcr@46.42.73.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.197.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:47:35 Hyde has no templates, but programs. Whatever a .lisp outputs on stdout is captured by an "inc" (a sort of load form) and returned as a string 21:47:46 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:47:57 a program can do any thing, e.g. using external libraries 21:48:16 -!- ered [~ered@108-201-125-162.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:18 connecting to a database, etc 21:49:21 in my experience, mixing stuff like DB access with website templates leads to an unholy mess. it's actually the second time I do this (first time I just customized the CL parser and templates had access to the full CL stack, and it was pretty bad...) 21:49:29 I am not reinventing PHP. I have programmed in PHP for more than 10 years :) I am pissed off with PHP as a language, but its libraries are good, I would like to have the same in Lisp. 21:49:54 you choose whether to do it or not, or to do in library files, not the template 21:50:00 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 21:50:06 how you organize your code is up to you 21:50:27 ninuzzo: ISTR that Jekyll and Hyde were a suite of tools once released for compromising systems. 21:50:41 ered [~ered@108-201-125-162.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:52 Funny :) But only a fool would compromise his own site, wouldn't he? Hyde is just a tool you use offline to generate your own site statically. 21:52:08 ninuzzo: By providing an embedded socket server which plays on this name you may create some hesitation for people wanting to adopt your tools 21:53:26 Maybe, but there is a double nature in each of us. And I believe most people are more evil and bad than good, me included LOL 21:53:52 ninuzzo: Some of the language on your website seems to call upon the history of this older suite of tools - it certainly cause me some hesitation wanting to download and install it FWIW 21:54:58 Actually I am fond of that 1920's movie "Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde" and of Stevenson's book. This is what I'm recalling. But what you say is just another fortunate coincidence for me :-D 21:55:02 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:55:26 ninuzzo: Hope it works out for you then. Good luck. 21:56:38 ninuzzo: Actually I'm thinking about "Cain and Abel" 21:56:55 Thanks, but I do not mind to become a celeb. I made this tool for my own use and I do not plan to use it to penetrate into power or politics. 21:57:02 I hate the bible 21:57:53 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-136-21-70.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:58:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain_and_Abel_(software) 21:58:26 I just use it to maintain my own web sites. If there are people who want to help, it will develop more. 21:58:29 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.8] has joined #lisp 21:58:41 oops another Italian 21:58:48 CrazyEddy [~renewably@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 21:59:01 quelli italiani... 21:59:38 "questi"=those, "quelli"=that. The reason why I called it Hyde is because on github they are using Jekyll, which in my opinon sucks 21:59:56 but it has a lot of contributors. Mine none so far 22:00:28 ninuzzo: you should have used another name 22:00:42 like "Hamlet" 22:00:57 or Quickserve 22:01:20 Now it's too late to change. There is a page comparing Jekyll and Hyde here: http://ninuzzo.github.com/hyde/advantages.html 22:02:24 -!- mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:03:53 ninuzzo: and you can go with the slogan "younger, smarter, .. more evil" 22:04:48 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 22:05:39 -!- ninuzzo [~ant@dynamic-adsl-94-38-113-10.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:33 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:07:39 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:08:52 oGMo: appropriate for a Bible hater... 22:09:00 heh 22:10:49 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:11:06 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.95.50] has joined #lisp 22:11:11 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:11:13 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 22:12:10 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 22:15:35 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:16:10 alexander__b [~alexander@140.100.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 22:16:37 anyone in here read/skimmed Land of Lisp, and if so, what do you reckon? 22:17:30 for the record - I have *no* Lisp experience, having only vaguely glanced on it, and basically no experience in functional programming whatsoever - save for a little bit of functional JavaScript, something I felt very bad at. 22:19:43 alexander__b: no worries, CL isn't functional (though you can write functionally if you really want) 22:20:27 it isn't purely functional 22:20:32 that 22:20:37 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:20:45 alexander__b: try PCL rather. 22:20:52 oGMo: I think to get the biggest advantage out of Lisp, it would be beneficial to know and appreciate functional programming. furthermore, that book I am mentioning does use functional programming. 22:21:32 amazon link for the book: http://www.amazon.com/Land-Lisp-Learn-Program-Game/dp/1593272812?tag=duckduckgo-d-20 22:21:42 alexander__b: i haven't seen any significant functional programming in CL 22:21:48 alexander__b: +1 on the PCL (Practical Common Lisp) recommendation 22:22:12 Lnd of Lisp is getting a lot of positive feedback, and as a game developer I find it highly interesting. it's a *very* big incentive that it uses games to teach Lisp. 22:22:13 it's freely available and quite concise yet informative 22:22:25 alexander__b: Also, consider Peter Norvig's PAIP, and Doug Hoyte's Let Over Lambda (the other LoL). 22:22:27 alexander__b: i was looking at land of lisp the other day. looks fun. was tempted to buy the ebook 22:22:41 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:07 DataLinkDroid: I recently bought it, and it is pretty cool. 22:23:14 Haven't looked at it much lately though, been busy, and unmotivated :( 22:23:21 alexander__b: but PCL might be better to learn from initially as pjb says. it's free online too 22:23:28 the practicals in PCL looks really discouraging compared to Land of Lisp. 22:23:46 DataLinkDroid: I have Land of Lisp available free of charge as well. 22:23:49 CampinSam: :) I'm still tempted... ;-) 22:24:05 PCL does look shorter though, so maybe I should read that first. 22:24:20 alexander__b: oh ok. didn't know it was available free 22:24:22 but the moment I saw "Unit Test Framework", I was highly discouraged, heh. 22:24:31 DataLinkDroid: it isn't, but I have it available to *me*. 22:24:44 alexander__b: oh ok... 22:25:29 alexander__b: peter seibel has a java background. what do you expect... hehe 22:25:33 alexander__b: PCL isn't shorter, and the stuff in it is just as much fun as the stuff in LoL (if not more). 22:26:16 antoszka: *all* of the practical examples involve making horribly boring things. Land of Lisp involves hacking games, which is what I do daily for enjoyment. 22:26:40 BTW I see Let Over Lambda is gratis online as well. 22:26:43 I wouldn't say a spam filter is boring. It's fucking exciting. 22:26:52 alexander__b: Parts of it. Get a printed copy. 22:26:59 I'd go first through LoL and then go through PCL, but it's up to you. 22:27:09 antoszka: very funny... :) 22:27:14 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:27:15 DataLinkDroid: No, really. 22:27:18 I've never read LOL though, only LoL 22:27:29 antoszka: programming-motherfucker.com lists it as a fully free book 22:28:04 alexander__b: well, it's not. 22:28:14 ah. two first chapters + appendices are missing. 22:28:20 s/first/last 22:28:34 who would use or trust a URL like that?? 22:28:43 zmv: that looks like the most likely route for me, as LoL looks very fun. 22:29:03 DataLinkDroid: Zed's programming, motherfucker page is the most valuable programming resource I have ever had 22:30:14 alexander__b: try LoL then. if no joy, then go for one of the others. there is also Touretzky's book, gentle intro to symbolic computation 22:30:36 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@bdf241.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 22:30:52 zmv: where does it start in terms of complexity? i.e. what kind of knowledge/skill does it assume the reader already has. 22:31:16 none of them assume any previous knowledge 22:31:22 alexander__b: PCL is probably the leanest path (not that I tried the others, or even PCL..) 22:31:46 DataLinkDroid: that book was on programming-motherfucker for free as well. thanks. 22:31:54 Touretky's definitely the leanest. 22:31:56 zmv: what do you mean? it has to 22:32:04 I guess I could teach my 6-year-old from it. 22:32:06 zmv: surely it doesn't start with "what is a computer" or something 22:32:16 alexander__b: hahaha 22:32:42 chapter 1. what is a computer. chapter 122547. what is a programming language. 22:32:55 chapter 52091024374637372673264. introduction to lisp. 22:33:32 I prefer sicp: chapter 1 introduction to programming (by the way this is lisp), and going on. 22:34:01 alexander__b: chapter 1 should be "how to read" 22:34:07 dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 22:34:08 so to be specific: does it assume you are familiar with how a compiler works, what a variable is, that you have a C background or something? because it's a bit annoying with books that start with explaining programming altogether. 22:34:10 zmv: yeh, heh. 22:34:30 zmv: or maybe "letters" 22:34:35 alexander__b: it assumes you know something about programming 22:35:51 OK. guess I'll at the very least try it. 22:37:26 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:40:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:41:14 -!- CrazyEddy [~renewably@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:41:35 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:06 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:54 CrazyEddy [~rampaciou@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 22:44:00 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:13 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.8] has joined #lisp 22:45:10 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128146118.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:45:36 -!- poisonarms [~poisonarm@cpe-66-68-80-227.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:46:26 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:47:30 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:53 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 22:48:25 -!- CrazyEddy [~rampaciou@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:49:27 CrazyEddy [~fabricate@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 22:50:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.155.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:51:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:52:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:52:20 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.95.50] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:54:07 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:22 Sorella [~quildreen@187-127-252-15.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 22:55:23 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@187-127-252-15.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 22:55:23 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 23:01:04 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.204.90] has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 23:02:47 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@74.20.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:03:17 -!- zealousJavelin [~niksaak@94.27.88.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:04:35 given lambda list how can i call a function accepting the same arguments? 23:04:48 Depends on the lambda list. 23:05:05 it can have &key and &optional 23:05:07 Have a look at com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp-sexp.source-form 23:05:38 -!- CrazyEddy [~fabricate@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:06:05 functions MAKE-ARGUMENT-LIST and MAKE-ARGUMENT-LIST-FORM 23:06:07 ikki [~ikki@189.139.15.119] has joined #lisp 23:07:28 thanks. btw I'm trying to create functions with custom dispatch that will work with any function, not just eql. know a library that does that already? 23:09:41 something like this: (my-defun foo ((x (equal "bar")) ..) 23:09:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:10:26 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:10:32 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:11:08 kmxx: com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp-sexp.source-form lambda-list stuff is OO, so you should be able to extend it easily writing a few subclasses and methods. 23:12:04 https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/common-lisp/lisp-sexp/source-form.lisp 23:18:27 it seems that this library already does twhat i want. http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/filtered.html 23:19:20 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 23:19:33 kmxx: You're lucky, if it does that for random functions. 23:19:57 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:00 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.204.90] has joined #lisp 23:20:33 looks pretty nifty. here's an example. http://paste.lisp.org/display/130279 23:21:22 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:27 CrazyEddy [~malonic@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 23:21:37 Yep. 23:22:05 nicer example. http://paste.lisp.org/display/130279#1 23:23:21 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 23:27:30 Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 23:28:39 lemonodor_ [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:28 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:30:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:40 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:32:40 -!- lemonodor_ is now known as lemonodor 23:33:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:34:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:35:18 -!- CrazyEddy [~malonic@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:38:05 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.15.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:38:22 -!- alexander__b [~alexander@140.100.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 23:39:23 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.135.74] has quit [Quit: y] 23:40:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:41:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:42:52 -!- Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-250-130.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:26 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:45:42 kmxx: were those examples using contextl filtered functions? 23:47:40 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:53 pnq [~nick@ACA2DF08.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:48:02 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 23:50:29 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 23:51:00 CrazyEddy [~impoveris@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 23:52:07 guthur i believe so i copy/pasted it from the docs. I haven't tested it yet though 23:53:04 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:53:19 wingy [~wingie@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:19 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:41 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.168] has joined #lisp 23:53:53 peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 23:54:00 ganggang [~chatzilla@60.209.129.66] has joined #lisp 23:57:31 -!- ganggang [~chatzilla@60.209.129.66] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120615233552]] 23:58:23 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:58:39 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:42 -!- dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]