00:00:02 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:16 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-gyeoramvsqldqzqx] has joined #lisp 00:07:21 -!- kanru` [~kanru@61-228-144-54.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:08:03 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:14 -!- IPmonger [~ipmonger@50.128.70.201] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 00:09:22 -!- Guthur` [~user@212.183.128.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:13 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:13:14 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:19 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:14:48 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:16:40 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:34 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:20:21 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:23:41 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 00:26:13 I still don't get it, it seems like every function there on cl could be implemented from some set of 'minimal' lisp 00:29:07 SrPx: check out the SICL project - it aims to do just that, by the way 00:30:18 clhs 3.1.2.1.2.1 00:35:29 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 00:35:58 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-89-131.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:39:43 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-34-145.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:40:39 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 00:40:49 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:01 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:02 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:43:03 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:45:03 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:42 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 00:46:38 hm 00:46:50 3.1.2.1.2.1 lol 00:46:58 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:47:04 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 00:47:13 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 00:48:04 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:48:46 oh now rereading this chan I think I got it 00:49:14 "Common Lisp was designed as a description of a family of languages." 00:55:49 ikki [~ikki@189.196.101.239] has joined #lisp 00:55:49 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 00:58:06 BlankVerse 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-!- yates [~user@nc-71-48-9-61.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.96.1] 02:55:50 -!- hitecnologys1 [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:57:56 -!- TDJACR [~TDJACR@lilug/member/tdjacr] has quit [Quit: Fixing connections.] 03:00:01 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:17 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:05:05 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-7-25.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:05:30 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-75-21.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 03:05:55 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:05:57 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@FLH9Aab022.nra.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:06:38 -!- cafesofie [~user@ool-ae2cc661.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:06:58 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:36 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:58 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:12:44 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:13:00 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:14:18 ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has joined #lisp 03:14:39 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 03:16:30 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 03:21:39 AlexHe [~AndChat32@60.247.127.3] has joined #lisp 03:25:09 -!- albertlee [~albertlee@59.108.40.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:26:27 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:27:15 SrPx: yes, every function can be implemented in terms of special operators and APPLY. 03:27:25 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 03:28:08 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:28:25 <|3b|> not quite all, some need to be able to interact with the environment, like IO, memory allocation, etc 03:29:10 |3b|: memory allocation is covered by closures. 03:29:24 (defun cons (a b) (lambda (k) (apply k a b '()))) 03:29:42 you can write virtual I/O that stores/reads things in/from memory. 03:30:09 <|3b|> right, you can fake a lot of it 03:38:09 *|3b|* assumes you would also implement a virtual universe in which to calculate the passage of time? 03:39:20 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:41:08 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-150-71.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:41:38 |3b|: if you start with lambda calculus, yes. 03:41:54 And this is exactly how I imagine God doing it. 03:42:21 *|3b|* suspects you would need at least a few numeric functions as 'primitives' as well unless you want to be implementing numbers with LAMBDA as well 03:42:33 Yes, Church Numerals. 03:42:43 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0/20120601045813]] 03:42:56 That said, notice how CL doesn't specify how numbers are implemented. 03:43:15 <|3b|> right, not saying it wouldn't be conformant, just that it wouldn't be useful or sane 03:43:20 SrPx: and notice how there's not really any "function" that defines numbers in CL. Only functions that operate on them. 03:43:40 |3b|: I argue it would be both. 03:43:49 BlankVerse [~pankajm@FLH9Aab022.nra.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 03:43:56 Notably, since it gives an answer to silly newbie questions. :-) 03:44:02 but there's a number class! 03:44:08 and type 03:44:38 <|3b|> useful and sane to actually implement a full cl with church numerals, entire numeric towser and type system based on objects created with LAMBDA? 03:44:42 <|3b|> *tower 03:44:43 Right. So we have to consider classes and types in addition to special operators, macros and functions. 03:45:00 pjb: God doing it wow? haha 03:45:29 pjb: what do you mean with a function that defines numbers... 03:45:30 |3b|: yes. Because for a start, this would concern only the lowest level. Soon enough with lambda-calculus you reach the level of Scheme. There are already implementations of CL in Scheme (rare, not up-to-date, but they exist). 03:45:42 pjb: oh you mean, they're implemented 03:46:41 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has joined #lisp 03:47:50 -!- AlexHe [~AndChat32@60.247.127.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:48:09 SrPx: Well, when you want to implement the function CL:PARSE-INTEGER, you will have to produce at least two integers, 0 and 1 so that you can write + and * with them, and implement parse-integer. + and * will have to produce other numbers 03:48:09 AlexHe [~AndChat32@60.247.127.3] has joined #lisp 03:48:33 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:49:09 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:49:26 SrPx: since there's no limit on the integers, when implementing +, *, etc, you will have to implement a lot of things, bignums, floating point numbers, ratio, complexes, etc. 03:51:35 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:52:16 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:52:21 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 03:52:38 -!- AlexHe [~AndChat32@60.247.127.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:53:44 õo 03:54:13 SrPx: http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~jshutt/kernel.html 03:54:24 But you can always write a subset of CL, it's authorized by the standard. SrPxLisp: a nice subset of Common Lisp. 03:55:02 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 03:56:19 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.196.101.239] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:56:47 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-bway-130-59.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:16 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:57:54 *sykopomp* wonders if Shutt's figured out the partial eval issues with kernel. 03:58:19 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.90.143] has joined #lisp 04:00:24 -!- SrPx is now known as whushup 04:00:41 -!- whushup is now known as SrPx 04:04:30 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-18-215.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:07:11 asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has joined #lisp 04:07:34 cddr [~user@108-89-212-211.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:37 clintm [~clintm@001e52f0de2b.click-network.com] has joined #lisp 04:17:09 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@90.165.165.246] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:21:41 A question in the form of a gist... https://gist.github.com/2952262 04:22:03 hrm.. probably not very clear. 04:22:06 -!- cddr [~user@108-89-212-211.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:38 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:22:41 Also not a question. 04:23:41 clintm: what's the question 04:24:56 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 04:25:50 pnathan: what I get in the source is "$('#fed-id').submit();" instead of the value of fed-id in the source. 04:26:16 err... in the generated html instead of the value of fed-id in the source. 04:26:54 Your HTML macro must not be expanding it correctly then, I reckon. 04:27:10 and that's just a reckon - I really don't know. 04:27:39 Oh... because I'm wrapping everything inside a (with-page macro that wraps (with-html-output-to-stream 04:28:21 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 04:33:27 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 04:34:24 kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 04:34:37 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:35:43 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1EB1.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:35:45 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:36:34 -!- clintm [~clintm@001e52f0de2b.click-network.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 04:38:49 nalssi [kenjin@2002:a398:5444::a398:5444] has joined #lisp 04:40:21 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:40:29 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 04:40:37 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.160.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:43:42 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 04:44:38 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@115.241.30.108] has joined #lisp 04:47:06 -!- SrPx [b12890dc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.40.144.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:48:24 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-163-106.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:14 Solys [~root@cpe-72-177-209-186.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:50:58 what's better than cl-who? 04:51:26 for what purpose? 04:51:40 Solys: com.informatimago.common-lisp.html-generator.html 04:52:27 evening 04:52:36 pjb: you need to fire your marketing department 04:52:59 pjb, that url goes nowhere 04:53:09 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:53:15 that's not an url, that's a package name. 04:53:17 it's not a ugr 04:53:20 url* 04:53:39 what is it 04:54:00 I'm quite new to lisp 04:54:04 a package name, like pjb said. 04:54:09 basically a namespace 04:54:22 It's a java-esqe package name 04:54:45 (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp.html-generator) and (com.informatimago.common-lisp.interactive:lspack :com.informatimago.common-lisp.html-generator.html t) 04:55:07 (com.informatimago.common-lisp.interactive.interactive:lspack :com.informatimago.common-lisp.html-generator.html t) ; I mean. 04:55:10 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-51-195.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:22 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 04:55:24 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:32 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 04:56:25 perhaps you could md5sum your package names and just use 6 random hex digits. 04:57:02 You're free to do it. I prefer to put some strategical use-package forms in ~/rc/common.lisp and just use (lspack ). 04:57:58 -!- scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has left #lisp 04:58:09 maybe my first question should have been, what's the best sbcl learning resource for web developers new to lisp 04:58:29 The one you'll write. 04:58:48 oi, that's a bit rough, pjb 05:00:03 Solys: try taking a look at the Heroku example stuff & some of the forks 05:00:04 Is there anything? 05:00:05 https://github.com/mtravers/heroku-cl-example 05:00:11 Solys: may be small restas (cl web framework) documentation. http://restas.lisper.ru/en/ 05:00:28 albertlee [~albertlee@59.108.40.194] has joined #lisp 05:00:31 There's a Clack framework, but it's fairly 'large' from what i can tell 05:00:37 oh, I meant like, just starting out with lisp...there's no learning resources with an sbcl focus? 05:00:39 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 05:00:50 http://www.adampetersen.se/articles/lispweb.htm Seems to be the only one. 05:00:54 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:01:04 Solys: http://www.cliki.net/Online%20Tutorial 05:01:06 SBCL really doesn't matter, in a way. It's a conformant implementation 05:01:09 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 05:02:45 It's like c++. For learning, you don't care if it's intel's compiler, g++, borland, or microsoft. 05:03:02 tashbear [~hucktash@unaffiliated/el-tash/x-7763973] has joined #lisp 05:03:37 I have a mentor that's teaching me, but I'd like to seem a bit further along the curve than I am - he was demoing code for me today and I was rather in over my head 05:04:31 I believe that A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic computation is newbie-friendlyu 05:04:37 I'm coming from PHP so it's kind of a leap 05:05:10 our project is to build what I think is going to end up being the first actual lisp CMS 05:05:28 running on hunchentoot 05:06:08 I have seen 1 or 2 lisp cms's out there 05:06:11 check out Clack 05:06:21 he said we're using cl-who just for convenience but that it's kind of unweildy when you get to higher order expressions since it's just a huge macro, that's why I was asking if there's anything obviously better 05:07:48 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:07:55 my php experience goes as far and making concrete5 themes so diving into lisp is kind of intimidating 05:08:05 >as far as 05:08:25 I think lisp in small parts looks good 05:08:31 http://lisp.plasticki.com/show?14F 05:10:46 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 05:11:12 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:13:06 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 05:14:32 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:17:16 -!- Solys [~root@cpe-72-177-209-186.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:17:16 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:17:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:55 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:20:34 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 05:20:35 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-170-236.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:21:32 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:21:43 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:22:34 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 05:25:06 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-148-210.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:25:06 -!- the8thbit [~eightbit@173-24-127-238.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:38:17 kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-ydoehpzgxdljtdio] has joined #lisp 05:41:38 -!- pt [~ptpt@h-2-236.a322.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:45:43 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-156-14.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:00 petter [~user@217.118.44.36] has joined #lisp 05:48:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:48:45 I keep getting asdf infinite loops when I try to quickload a system like weblocks or fare-matcher: http://paste.lisp.org/display/130141, I tried this work around: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.quicklisp/10 but it does not seem to resolve the problem, I'm using sbcl 1.0.48 05:49:08 abeaumont [~Alfredo@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 05:49:16 petter: can I recommend using sbcl latest version? 05:49:48 pnathan: ok I'll try that... 05:49:57 fyi, my sbcl 1.0.57 doesn't have an issue on osx snow leopard 05:50:15 pnathan: ok, thanks for the info 05:52:26 *quazimodo* prods pnathan 05:53:50 Hi 05:54:17 quazimodo: can I help you? 05:59:05 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:59:16 -!- kdas_ is now known as kushal 05:59:25 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-ydoehpzgxdljtdio] has quit [Changing host] 05:59:25 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:02:56 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:48 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:05:03 -!- ASau [~user@128-69-157-61.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06:14 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 06:06:52 TimKack [~TimKack@46.194.24.166] has joined #lisp 06:10:30 ASau [~user@128-69-157-61.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:10:44 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 06:10:56 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:15:36 jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has joined #lisp 06:16:40 pnathan: 1.0.57 resolved the issue, thanks! 06:17:53 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:18:10 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:10 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 06:21:14 DrForr [~jgoff@d149031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 06:21:27 -!- TimKack [~TimKack@46.194.24.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:21:42 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.16.112] has joined #lisp 06:21:58 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:14 -!- Oddity- [~Oddity@d154-20-192-229.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [] 06:24:36 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 06:26:59 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:28:51 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has joined #lisp 06:30:30 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 06:30:33 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:35:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:36:19 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:38:16 TimKack [~TimKack@46.194.24.166] has joined #lisp 06:39:49 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.16.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:41:52 -!- TimKack [~TimKack@46.194.24.166] has quit [Client Quit] 06:42:35 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:42:36 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:42:36 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:44:40 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:48:47 Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has joined #lisp 06:49:03 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:06 -!- Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has left #lisp 06:50:58 prsteele [~user@dhcp-128-253-211-249.res-wired.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 06:51:41 -!- theos is now known as Guest37509 06:51:41 -!- Guest37509 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:52:11 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 06:52:50 anothervenue [~anotherve@76.91.162.213] has joined #lisp 06:53:34 hello everyone; just got started in common lisp, and I was wondering if this is a decent attempt at replicating a traditional while loop: http://pastebin.com/ZkaNH9sc . I'm pretty sure it works, I was just wondering if this is the lisp-y way to go about it... 06:54:27 prsteele: it presents the name capture problem. 06:54:37 prsteele: otherwise: (loop while do ) 06:55:15 pjb: name capture problem? 06:56:01 prsteele: one (minor) suggestion I would have is not to bother storing result into result, just let the 'if' return it's branch on the final iteration 06:56:17 Try this: (let ((result 42) (cnt -1)) (while (zerop (incf cnt)) result)) 06:56:18 see, e.g., this one I wrote (a long time ago): https://github.com/smanek/ga/blob/master/misc.lisp#L90 06:56:54 both prsteele while and smanek while present name capture problems. 06:57:05 rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-169-16-50.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:57:47 pjb: your example terminates with nil, am I missing something? 06:57:59 -!- gko [~user@220.228.255.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:58:00 prsteele: yes, it was expected to return 42. 06:58:03 result = 42. 06:58:16 And the second example doesn't terminate. 06:58:19 To avoid name capture problems try writing it as a function. 06:58:29 It was expected to terminate and just print DONE. 06:58:37 Or use gensym. 06:58:41 e.g., (while (lambda () test) (lambda () body)) 06:58:59 Or (while-function (lambda () test) (lambda () body)) 06:59:00 pjb: ahhhhhh sorry 06:59:13 Then write a macro to translate (while test body) to (while-function ...) 06:59:35 -!- NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.0.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:59:41 prsteele: smanek: have a look at Casting Spels in Lisp Conrad Barski, M.D. http://www.lisperati.com/casting.html 07:00:17 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:03:53 pjb: thanks 07:04:11 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:05:42 pjb: thanks - will do 07:07:14 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:07:15 gko [~user@220.228.255.202] has joined #lisp 07:08:04 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:09:56 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 07:11:17 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 07:11:35 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:11:36 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:11:59 pjb: using gensym, I got http://pastebin.com/CgUdQrhm 07:12:56 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:15:26 -!- gko [~user@220.228.255.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:26:28 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:26:52 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 07:33:14 kilon [~kilon@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 07:37:18 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:39:41 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has joined #lisp 07:43:19 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:44:45 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:46:08 gko [~gko@220.228.255.202] has joined #lisp 07:47:05 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-129-60.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:48:22 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 07:50:07 prsteele: It doesn't work. Read CLHS tagbody. But now, if you want to return the last results of the body, what about multiple values? (let ((cnt -1)) (while (zerop (incf cnt)) (values 1 2 3))) 07:50:56 prsteele: are you using emacs? Your code is not indented correctly, so you can't see where the result is returned from 07:51:49 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 07:51:53 prsteele: see http://paste.lisp.org/display/130142 07:53:54 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 07:55:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:55:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.174.231] has joined #lisp 07:55:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.174.231] has quit [Changing host] 07:55:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:56:10 sbcl manual says, "On threaded platforms only a single thread may remain running after sb-ext:*save-hooks* have run. Applications using multiple threads can be save-lisp-and-die friendly by registering a save-hook that quits any additional threads, and an init-hook that restarts them." Would someone please show me an example of how to register these hooks? 07:56:14 clintm [~clintm@001e52f0de2b.click-network.com] has joined #lisp 07:57:59 NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.0.145] has joined #lisp 07:58:13 -!- bieber [~quassel@97.97.75.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:59:22 bieber [~quassel@97.97.75.169] has joined #lisp 08:00:26 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:27 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-pybdsjofuqzflmxq] has joined #lisp 08:03:13 -!- pnq [~nick@AC814C96.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:05:04 -!- sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:05:16 sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has joined #lisp 08:09:59 drl: (push hook *save-hooks*). 08:10:14 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:10:25 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-4.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:10:28 tcr 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[kenjin@2002:a398:5444::a398:5444] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:20:01 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869e80.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:43 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:27:41 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 09:29:43 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 09:31:20 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 09:32:48 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:33:07 -!- cfdm [~user@114.205.86.94] has left #lisp 09:35:54 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 09:39:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:39:23 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@37.99.83.133] has joined #lisp 09:39:51 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: gone] 09:40:24 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 09:45:58 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@eduroam-pool6-0950.wlan.uni-bremen.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 09:48:07 -!- gko [~gko@220.228.255.202] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 09:48:50 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:49:33 shifty [~user@114-198-36-60.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:52:26 -!- am0c [~am0c@203.246.179.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:56:49 is there a clim for Qt already? 09:57:08 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:57:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:57:49 dim: have you worked on it already? 09:58:07 not yet, I'm trying to help a friend find an interesting project 09:58:23 better find an idea that's not been implemented already :) 09:58:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:58:47 dim: Hats for fish. 09:59:06 Or maybe igloo warmers. 09:59:07 lost in translation, what means? 09:59:14 oh 09:59:15 ok 09:59:19 yeah, well 09:59:36 nalssi [kenjin@2002:a398:5444::a398:5444] has joined #lisp 10:00:32 You could make a robot arm using a gripper built from coffee grounds and a vacuum pump. 10:04:22 snearch [~snearch@f053008031.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:06:08 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:08:04 Before I start writing my own or checkout non CL-solutions: does anyone have CL code to talk with the Gimp Script-Fu server? (http://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-filters-script-fu.html bottom of the page) 10:09:20 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:10:29 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 10:11:14 Harag [~phil@196.215.203.5] has joined #lisp 10:11:34 -!- Harag [~phil@196.215.203.5] has left #lisp 10:12:48 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:11 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 10:17:44 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:18:48 -!- antonv [2e35c32a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.42] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:19:30 -!- shifty [~user@114-198-36-60.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:21:45 http://prog21.dadgum.com/13.html -- Would You Bet $100,000,000 on Your Pet Programming Language? 10:21:52 interesting question here, I think 10:22:07 pjb, if you're ok playing that game, woudl you bet on CL? :) 10:31:12 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has joined #lisp 10:32:09 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:34:32 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:34:47 flanfl [~flanfl@146.176.227.174] has joined #lisp 10:34:59 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:35:55 saage [~saage@187.52.209.147] has joined #lisp 10:35:56 -!- saage [~saage@187.52.209.147] has quit [Changing host] 10:35:56 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 10:39:49 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:40:16 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869e80.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:41:28 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 10:41:33 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:42:24 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:42:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ht-210.humtec.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:45:41 -!- guaqua``` is now known as guaqua 10:46:19 -!- NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.0.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:46:38 NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.0.145] has joined #lisp 10:46:40 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 10:47:50 dim: It has nothing to do with $$$. CL just isn't the best choice for all three points. Different implementations are either waste too much memory or difficult to port. Sometimes both. And depending on the task it may be difficult to scale it to 20 cores. 10:48:08 $100,000,000 or $1 doesn't change it. 10:48:59 sure it does 10:49:06 Kryztof: how? 10:49:19 with $100M, some of these problems affecting the actual task can be fixed 10:49:22 If you need to do the job how does money change your approach to solving it? 10:49:22 with $1, they can't 10:49:28 Right :) 10:49:29 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@175.242.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 10:50:01 If you have $100M you can pay some to port SBCL to ARMs e.g. 10:50:22 wait 10:50:37 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:50:39 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.250.91] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 10:50:39 dim: He wants it to run on both custom ARM-based hardware AND 20-core Intel chip? 10:52:15 (And he believes Smalltalk was never used for big (for its time) datasets) 10:53:27 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:55:16 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:55:20 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:55:24 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 10:56:57 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 10:58:06 dim: those questions are not specially interesting, given the return on investment. Basically: 1) big data sets 2) ARM. 3) 20+ cores. 10:58:07 10:59:07 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Client Quit] 10:59:22 Indeed, most CL implementation have some overhead in their memory usage. But it's O(1) compared to, eg. C, so in any case you will have to deal with files. CL has no disadvantage there. 11:00:01 With $100,000,000 ROI, you can easily invest $1,000,000 on developing or porting a good CL implementation targetting all the ARM processors. 11:00:40 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:00:41 With $100,000,000 ROI, you can easily invest $1,000,000 on developing (or backporting from old parallel lisp code) into a CL implementation the features needed to benefit from multi-core processors. 11:01:10 You'll still be ahead by $98,000,000, which is largely enough to buy an island and live happy forever after. 11:01:22 So my answer is a resounding yes. 11:01:32 neoesque [~neoesque@122-116-18-21.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:23 So basically, what naryl said :-) 11:02:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-4.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:48 Consider ecls, clisp and sbcl as three different implementation strategies. 11:03:54 each of those 3 scenarios are as fundamentally shifting to the problem as his lame photoshop example 11:04:41 it doesn't matter what language you choose if you then have to break apart the program to implement some job-based execution or whatever to go many-core, or have to do disk-based transient data to handle giant data loads 11:06:09 I could even chip anther $1,000,000 to add a good existing multi-threaded incremental GC algorithm. 11:06:26 really? please do so then. :) 11:06:28 -!- Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:06:48 Phoodus: I'll chip $1M too if you give me $100M :) 11:06:58 When you have that kind of budget, libraries just don't matter. Check with adobe for example. They developed their own libraries to write their applications. Same everywhere. 11:07:50 the OP said $10^10 as prize, not budget 11:08:12 sorry, 10^8 11:09:04 How is that different? 11:09:16 uncertainty 11:09:34 pjb: The best multi-threaded GC I know is implemented in beam.smp. Erlang just doesn't share data between processes so you can stop a single process to collect its garbage while all the rest (some 10k in some cases) run normally. I don't think it's feasible in CL and Java's idea of parallel GC (which is feasible for CL) sometimes has too big overhead. 11:10:05 That's real hair-splitting to call that a multi-threaded GC 11:10:18 naryl: most incremental GC algorithms can easily be made multi-threaded. 11:10:22 the GC doesn't multithread along the same heap as the program; it's a stop-the-world GC 11:10:22 Phoodus: so yes. 11:10:43 -!- _8david [~user@port-92-195-225-218.dynamic.qsc.de] has left #lisp 11:10:46 Phoodus: One thread collects a process's garbage while other threads run their processes normally. 11:10:48 dbushenko [~dim@86.57.253.61] has joined #lisp 11:11:22 if that's true, then they must have created a new GC in the last year or two since I last used Erlang 11:12:08 Ok, it's not a real parallel GC because *one* process is still stopped. 11:12:12 wait, other threads and "their processes" meaning that the process whose GC is running is currently NOT running? 11:12:19 yes 11:12:23 yeah, stop-the-world 11:12:31 just with different separated worlds 11:12:33 Phoodus: Stop the 1/10000th of the world. 11:12:36 yes 11:12:37 and it also uses refcounting for binaries 11:12:58 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:02 because it keeps those in a shared heap space to reduce the amount of memcopying on message sends 11:13:05 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869e80.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:13:23 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 11:13:52 if you're waiting on 1 process to run some heavy processing, it's still stopping the world (and you probably shouldn't be using Erlang int he first place...) 11:14:18 visar [~visar@77.29.157.202] has joined #lisp 11:15:00 -!- visar [~visar@77.29.157.202] has left #lisp 11:15:37 I'm actually pondering what it would take to implement separate heaps in SBCL, in order to allow per-internal-job memory quota 11:16:46 alama [~jessealam@stgt-5f702687.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:31 but regarding "the best multi-threaded GC I know", I'd have to nominate the C4 collector 11:17:57 I have no idea how it scales up to truly large heaps, though. I expect it'd still be okay 11:24:17 *dim* is back, collects answers 11:26:39 well ok so it's still CL for pjb, and for some others too, but with some concerns I'm not understanding well 11:26:50 good enough :) 11:26:50 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27:10 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:37 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.84] has joined #lisp 11:30:35 anyone know any parsing frameworks/utilities for cl? i have some prolog-like syntax to parse, and i want to do it in cl 11:30:50 i could roll my own custom parser, but i'd rather not 11:30:53 I've been using cl-yacc 11:30:55 emacs-dwim [~user@rrcs-24-103-166-106.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:31:10 dim: ah, thanks for the tip 11:31:14 *alama* investigates cl-yacc 11:31:25 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869e80.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:31:29 Although prolog has a dynamic syntax, so ymmv. 11:31:45 Zhivago: thankfully i don't need to deal with the dynamix syntax aspects 11:32:12 the language i need to parse is specified in its own standalone grammar; it's a kind of baby prolog 11:34:01 it's coming from the tptp project, http://www.cs.miami.edu/~tptp/TPTP/QuickGuide/ 11:34:54 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@175.242.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:35:24 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869e80.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:57 all the "big data" craze for analyzing social networks is going nowhere imho 11:39:10 all you get out of it, is "buy everything justin bieber" 11:39:29 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:40:56 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 11:41:17 plus penny stock spammers.. Unfortunately there are a lot of stupid people, believing everything they read on the intertubes, therefore spamming / botposting has positive ROI, and so analyzing social big data for trends, just helps the botposters/spammers.. Smart money is actually already in there, running botnets. They can make any topic you want trend on any social network, for $$ 11:42:11 maxm: surely there are limits though? can one really get, say, saddam hussein to trend? 11:42:59 alama: easily, you need to make up a beleivable viral story. The republican framing guy that appears on colbert, is scary orwell-like good at it 11:43:02 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:43:47 ie "saddam hussains niece found dead in bordel in nairobi" -> massive botposting -> saddam hussain will trend on twitter and g+ in 1 day 11:44:08 Joreji [~thomas@ht-210.humtec.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:44:58 lol 11:45:12 you may be right, but it's so sad and funny if you are 11:45:17 bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 11:49:09 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-129-60.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:50:59 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-169-16-50.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:51:15 is there a lisp library for printing colors to the terminal? i have in mind a commandline application that prints stuff to standard out, but i want some of the output to be colored 11:53:11 something like this (http://search.cpan.org/~rra/Term-ANSIColor-3.02/ANSIColor.pm) which i now use in a perl package that i wrote, which i am now porting to cl 11:54:08 http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-ncurses/ or something like that? 11:54:42 Gtreetings! 11:55:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:55:21 Is there's any good net framework for lisp? 11:55:22 dim: hmm, thanks, that is indeed relevant, but it seems like a bit much to me 11:55:25 gunnar_m [~gunnar_m@tmo-106-226.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:40 i don't need a fullblown ncurses interface, just colors 11:55:51 i guess i can make some macros for doing what i want 11:55:58 -!- NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.0.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:11 alama: why macros? 11:56:27 NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.0.145] has joined #lisp 11:56:36 H4ns: well, it doesn't have to be a macro; a function would be fine 11:57:18 i guess i don't know how to print ansi escape sequences using FORMAT 11:58:02 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 11:58:41 alama: (format t "~C[H~C[2J" #\Escape #\Escape) is one way 12:01:01 H4ns: ah, cool, thanks! 12:03:44 H4ns: works like a charm; using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code#Colors as a reference, i think your tip is just what i needed 12:04:12 rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-169-16-50.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:05:11 dim: http://www.cliki.net/cl-charms The developer is still arund and it's on CFFI. 12:05:40 -!- gunnar_m [~gunnar_m@tmo-106-226.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 12:05:45 naryl: the link is broken 12:05:49 naryl: on that very page 12:06:26 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053008031.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 12:06:29 -!- bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 12:06:38 anyone doing mac os x development using ccl? 12:07:09 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:07:18 i.e., making native cocoa apps using ccl 12:07:37 H4ns: fixed page :) 12:07:46 It's here: http://gitorious.org/cl-charms 12:08:11 xyxu [~Adium@180.158.178.70] has joined #lisp 12:09:33 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@37.99.83.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:11:17 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-250-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 12:11:55 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:13:08 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:13:33 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:14:34 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-75-21.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:17:25 zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-nqnxwjpoyxrsaxxy] has joined #lisp 12:18:51 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:19:14 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has joined #lisp 12:23:10 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 12:24:10 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:21 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:49 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:24:51 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-250-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 12:25:39 -!- chu [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:27:01 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-84-39.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 12:28:39 anyone know a cl package for running programs? i've cooked up a thin abstract layer on top of SBCL's RUN-PROGRAM and CCL's RUN-PROGRAM, but i miss some of the functionality of chaining together programs (pipes), as found in a nice perl utility (http://search.cpan.org/~toddr/IPC-Run-0.91/lib/IPC/Run.pm) 12:32:46 -!- arrsim [~user@2001:44b8:415c:cc01:a800:4ff:fe00:a04] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:01 -!- zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-nqnxwjpoyxrsaxxy] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 12:33:14 zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-adzzucvmjozrmokb] has joined #lisp 12:34:45 am0c [~am0c@121.160.18.107] has joined #lisp 12:35:09 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:35:41 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:22 -!- xyxu [~Adium@180.158.178.70] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:36:39 -!- zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-adzzucvmjozrmokb] has quit [Client Quit] 12:37:02 zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-ihozlyzlspumthbe] has joined #lisp 12:37:59 impaktor [~user@b2.thep.lu.se] has joined #lisp 12:38:19 -!- impaktor [~user@b2.thep.lu.se] has left #lisp 12:39:17 https://github.com/sellout/external-program maybe 12:39:31 alama: see http://www.cliki.net/system%20programming 12:40:18 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:41:05 arrsim [~user@2001:44b8:415c:cc01:a800:4ff:fe00:a04] has joined #lisp 12:41:40 dim: thanks, looking at that now 12:42:07 AlexHe [~AndChat32@60.247.127.3] has joined #lisp 12:42:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.83.133] has joined #lisp 12:42:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.83.133] has quit [Changing host] 12:42:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:42:44 Yes, someone is doing Mac OS X development using ccl. Why do you ask? 12:42:49 -!- AlexHe [~AndChat32@60.247.127.3] has quit [Client Quit] 12:43:07 AlexHe [~AndChat32@60.247.127.3] has joined #lisp 12:45:29 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128043006.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 12:47:08 pjb: i'd like to test the waters and see what it's like to make a mac os x application with ccl 12:49:15 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 12:50:40 mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable162.45-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 12:50:41 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:52:54 -!- nalssi [kenjin@2002:a398:5444::a398:5444] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:53:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:00:06 siyuandong1 [~Siyuan@p579F620F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:31 -!- siyuandong1 [~Siyuan@p579F620F.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 13:04:08 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:04:08 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869e80.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:20 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 13:05:39 how do i refer to the value of an object's slot in the definition of the initform for another slot? 13:05:50 or, how i can i refer to the current object? 13:05:54 alama: you can't 13:06:04 alama: use an initialize-instance method 13:06:11 ah, right 13:08:20 -!- AlexHe [~AndChat32@60.247.127.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:08:37 AlexHe [~AndChat32@60.247.127.3] has joined #lisp 13:09:10 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Client Quit] 13:09:41 AndChat|329121 [~AndChat32@117.136.0.117] has joined #lisp 13:11:21 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 13:12:53 -!- AlexHe [~AndChat32@60.247.127.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:13:20 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:25 nalssi [~kenjin@2002:a398:5444::a398:5444] has joined #lisp 13:13:45 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 13:15:31 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.83.133] has joined #lisp 13:15:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.83.133] has quit [Changing host] 13:15:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:16:00 intinig [~user@93-50-99-219.ip152.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:16:01 phax [~phax@adsl-68-74-59-158.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:01 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-74-59-158.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:16:01 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 13:20:34 wachmc [d24d1a9b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.210.77.26.155] has joined #lisp 13:24:27 -!- arrsim` [~user@russell.its.unimelb.edu.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:31 yortz [~aliosha@93-50-99-219.ip152.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:25:06 ngz [~user@8.214.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:14 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.254.247] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 13:27:26 -!- wachmc [d24d1a9b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.210.77.26.155] has left #lisp 13:27:58 kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.241] has joined #lisp 13:27:59 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.241] has quit [Changing host] 13:27:59 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:28:44 Joreji_ [~thomas@91-074.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:29:45 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@122-116-18-21.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 13:30:59 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@115.241.30.108] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:36:08 -!- AndChat|329121 [~AndChat32@117.136.0.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:36:55 AlexHe [~AndChat32@117.136.0.117] has joined #lisp 13:38:05 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 13:38:12 -!- yortz [~aliosha@93-50-99-219.ip152.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:39:49 -!- am0c [~am0c@121.160.18.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:04 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-169-16-50.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:13 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 13:41:37 antonv [2e35c32a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.42] has joined #lisp 13:42:05 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:43:01 -!- albertlee [~albertlee@59.108.40.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:43:38 gko` [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:38 albertlee [~albertlee@59.108.40.194] has joined #lisp 13:45:07 -!- AlexHe [~AndChat32@117.136.0.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:45:09 pkhuong, thanks! 13:45:21 -!- mirTapir [vutral@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:45:51 mirTapir [vutral@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has joined #lisp 13:47:11 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:11 -!- gko` [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:31 -!- mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable162.45-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:48:57 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-ssxsurkjzhsoawgt] has joined #lisp 13:51:14 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:54:01 rudi [~user@mineralogix.ifi.uio.no] has joined #lisp 13:54:04 -!- rudi [~user@mineralogix.ifi.uio.no] has left #lisp 13:54:22 rudi [~user@mineralogix.ifi.uio.no] has joined #lisp 14:00:43 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.139.193] has joined #lisp 14:00:47 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-ssxsurkjzhsoawgt] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 14:02:03 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-46-229.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:33 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:52 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@146.176.227.174] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:23 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-197-89.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:11:06 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 14:12:18 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@38.117.156.114] has joined #lisp 14:13:27 -!- zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-ihozlyzlspumthbe] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 14:13:31 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:39 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-197-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:13:49 zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-aphronnqhlhgnkiv] has joined #lisp 14:13:56 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:16:56 alama: well, it's perfectly possible. There are at least two examples: ClozureCL.app and MCLIDE.app are Mac OS X applications written in ccl. 14:19:51 pjb: what did you mean with make-pathname :host "RC", what does RC stand for ? 14:20:40 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5089C3D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:20 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:27:03 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B9AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:55 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:32:10 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 14:33:25 kilon [~kilon@77.49.245.198.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:35:39 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:23 -!- beslayed [~user@76.237.226.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:37:46 mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has joined #lisp 14:39:15 b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:41:10 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-241-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:41 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:03 I am considering writing an emulator for some cpu motorola 6502 and then go on to implement a full NES emulator in lisp in the long term future. Trouble is I am a beginner in understanding compilation,hardware,OS and Lisp interface to these. 14:45:35 -!- PissedNu1lock is now known as PissedNumlock 14:45:36 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.194] has joined #lisp 14:45:51 b_: you might want to break those down into smaller projects. 14:45:52 This trouble is part of the reason I want to do this. I have started reading this processor details and lisp in small pieces 14:46:18 b_: redline6561 has been working on a 6502 emulator. https://github.com/redline6561/cl-6502 14:46:35 might be interesting stuff to read before embarking on your own. 14:46:55 b_: read a hardware/os book, and possibly a VM book, and possibly through some OS source 14:47:09 and yes, other emulator source doesn't hurt 14:47:28 heh. hola! :) 14:47:29 sykopomp: Infact I read his post here: http://redlinernotes.com/blog/?p=1421 and his reason 1 exactly matches mine 14:47:32 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:47:47 b_: You thought ICU64 was pretty awesome too? Felt like putting it on the web? 14:47:49 oGMo: VM you mean Virtual machine? 14:47:52 java? 14:48:11 hehe 14:48:25 b_: not java specifically, but VMs in general .. from purely virtual things like java to virtualization 14:48:52 -!- mathrick__ is now known as mathrick 14:49:20 java specifically strikes me as a bit overengineered, but there are plenty of other/simpler/better 14:50:07 oGMo: is there a specific "starter VM" whose source you'd recommend? 14:50:29 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:44 -!- antonv [2e35c32a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.42] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:50:47 redline6561: b_: I hope you'll do it in ECL for two reasons. 14:50:50 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:50:59 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:51:04 Here is NES assembler: http://ahefner.livejournal.com/20528.html in lisp 14:51:05 redline6561: not off hand .. though maybe clisp is worth a look .. and you can find some stuff in various books 14:51:29 1. Binary size won't frighten potential users. 14:51:31 Gotcha. 14:51:48 though isn't clisp written in the author's odd variant of C? 14:52:05 2. ECL gets a project they can test each new build with. 14:52:10 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 14:52:20 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:45 naryl: or just make it portable enough it builds on any CL ;) 14:52:50 naryl: So far, I have a simple 6502 emulator in pure CL. Should run on ECL fine. 14:53:04 redline6561: alexandria is portable too. broken on 12.2.1 14:53:07 The plan is to eventually expose it over the web rather than build desktop apps though. :) 14:53:25 naryl: ECL can't run alexandria right now? Jeez. 14:53:26 redline6561: is understanding compilation needed for implementing a full nes cmu? 14:53:44 or knowing the hardware and some hacking will do 14:53:45 b_: No, though it can be helpful for achieving good performance. 14:54:27 redline6561: I recall the problem was that ECL compiled LOOPs too strictly. :) 14:54:37 Interesting. 14:54:45 yeah i ran into that with ECL 14:54:52 So we already have a "too conforming" CL implementation. 14:55:09 -!- emacs-dwim [~user@rrcs-24-103-166-106.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:56:22 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:56:37 naryl: Perhaps ECL could also randomly choose between returning the first or second value in a PROG2. 14:56:50 tfb [~tfb@92.41.233.198.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:57:07 lemonodor [~lemonodor@76.172.30.205] has joined #lisp 14:57:19 sykopomp: I think I've missed something. 14:57:46 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 14:57:46 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:47 b_: An emulator can either interpret assembly or compile it. You may want to read this paper: https://github.com/redline6561/cl-6502/blob/master/docs/emulation/Study%20of%20the%20Techniques%20for%20Emulation%20Programming.pdf 14:57:49 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:58:10 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:20 -!- krrrcks [~krrrcks@krrrcks.de] has left #lisp 14:58:33 -!- alama [~jessealam@stgt-5f702687.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:58:33 naryl: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_prog1c.htm 14:59:12 redline6561: thanks 14:59:40 So overall it should be helpful to read lisp in small pieces 14:59:50 >.< 15:00:56 redline6561: that pdf looks good especially as there is no single book which covers emulation or implementing a VM, i couldnt find any 15:00:56 sykopomp: Looks like there's still a lot to do to become a too conforming implementation. 15:01:03 indeed 15:01:29 Thanks guys, i will read more to ask better questions next time :) 15:01:36 b_: I'm a bit dubious about reading LiSP. If you know lisp and want to write an emulator, pick a processor and get to it. I'm learning as I go, basically. 15:02:04 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:02:07 benny [~benny@i577A3E58.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:02:07 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@175.242.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 15:02:15 nachtwandler_ [~nachtwand@p57AD7BB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:30 redline6561: That is what i am going to do, reading your and others code and try understand the approach pattern 15:02:37 If you find performance unsatisfactory later once you've built something cool, learn how to optimize it, drawing upon compiler research if needed. :) 15:02:43 Sure. 15:02:44 compilation i am interested in also, and wanted to combine it with emulation 15:03:14 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:03:16 Me too. Eventually. :) 15:03:23 dlowe_ [dlowe@nat/google/x-djowcmleriocrxoj] has joined #lisp 15:04:06 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-241-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:04:26 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:30 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-kipjrgqahhehocbk] has joined #lisp 15:04:43 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:04:47 In one of articles is nice approach: build a rom facing /interpreting code once that builds a internal structure and then you can have java/c or whatever backends to produce the final code 15:04:59 i dont understand fully but something like this 15:05:09 -!- dlowe_ [dlowe@nat/google/x-djowcmleriocrxoj] has quit [Client Quit] 15:05:25 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5089C3D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:05:43 to produce the final emulator code that runs ..the rom.. ermm 15:05:47 -!- rudi [~user@mineralogix.ifi.uio.no] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:05:55 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:06:58 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@76.172.30.205] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 15:06:58 Final version: build a lisp language for the emulator, and then have lisp compile to the language you want the emulator to run in! 15:07:37 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-241-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:29 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-pybdsjofuqzflmxq] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:09:14 b_: what are you trying to achieve by building this? 15:09:35 Subfusc: To get a stage where I can read sentences like this "And that is how, a week after Google gives me a mobile phone, I find myself writing Common Lisp code, for a compiler that compiles a lisp-like language into Java code, that will be compiled into Dalvik VM bytecode, running on an ARM-based embedded system, which when executed will emulate a Motorola 68000 CPU." 15:10:05 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-kipjrgqahhehocbk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:10:13 .. to compute factorials! 15:10:17 scnr 15:10:19 alama [~jessealam@stgt-5f702687.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:43 b_: so what you want is a converter from lisp to java? 15:11:34 thats a part of it, yes, but also to make the 'thing' to be converted 15:11:55 can postmodern give me classes by looking at a database? 15:12:36 sql to defclass compiler hehe :D 15:12:49 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.137.254] has joined #lisp 15:12:50 -!- alama [~jessealam@stgt-5f702687.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:12:56 yeah, that's what I'm looking for ... instead of going the other way. 15:13:11 b_: Just to understand this correctly, you want a converter from lisp to java in order to be able to write a lisp to java converter in lisp for android? 15:13:23 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-yuuwnvuxrmvxzkaj] has joined #lisp 15:13:44 Subfusc: I quoted the paragraph from here: http://blog.natulte.net/posts/2008-12-29-levels-of-abstraction.html 15:14:09 I want to have comfort doing things like this. I am complete dumb dumb web programmer right now 15:15:48 I dont want to imply web programmers are dumb, just that I am 15:15:51 ykm [~ykm@182.237.186.55] has joined #lisp 15:16:16 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:20 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-163-106.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:19:05 b_: rofl, thats insanly cool. 15:19:06 programming makes everyone feel stupid 15:19:15 Total waste of time, but cool! 15:20:26 Subfusc: The article is cool or my _dumb_ monologue? 15:20:34 b_: the article 15:20:39 yeah! 15:20:46 Can clojure run on dalvik, anyone know? 15:21:09 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:21:18 Subfusc: It can be done. Startup time and memory usage is a bit rough. There are plans to improve it. 15:21:57 -!- ykm [~ykm@182.237.186.55] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:21:58 perhaps he should have just put his effort into that and written his emulator in clojures lisp 15:22:00 : 15:22:01 :) 15:22:05 hahaha 15:22:29 Subfusc: no and why bother with dalvik when ccl/ecl could run natively 15:22:35 It wouldn't have been as insane, but it would be cool to be able to run clojure apps on Android 15:22:46 [SLB] [~slabua@host125-164-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:22:47 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host125-164-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 15:22:47 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 15:22:49 dlowe: "Give someone a program, you frustrate them for a day; teach them how to program, you frustrate them for a lifetime." - David Leinweber 15:23:02 oGMo: ccl can run nativly with access to 3d libraries/ 15:23:04 ? 15:23:07 Probably, but the idea of an emulator compiler is cute. And I like the idea of that better than something ubiquitous like Java or close to the machine like C for "portability". 15:23:12 Subfusc ^^ 15:23:24 Granted, performance is usually a larger concern. 15:23:41 Subfusc: i know it runs on armv7 .. doing ffi to the gl/android ndk stuff should be trivial beyond that 15:23:45 flip214: there's a dao thing in postmodern yes 15:23:47 -!- NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.0.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:24:01 NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.0.145] has joined #lisp 15:24:06 oGMo +1 15:24:09 you would be "limited" to 2.2+ on armv7, but that's not much of a limit anymore 15:24:10 ccl is the jam. 15:24:22 see http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/postmodern/postmodern.html#daos flip214 15:24:41 ecl might be able to run on earlier stuff but i haven't really looked at the android port 15:26:23 dim: I think he wanted the class definitions from existing sql create table statements 15:27:46 oGMo: Been some time since i ran android, but doesn't it restrict you on what can run as native code? 15:28:06 aloysius21 [~user@99-123-152-51.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:09 Mazingaro [~Tetsuja@host113-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:28:18 oook, so in summary if you want good understanding in compilers like the insane guy: lisp in small pieces and AHO compilers, other (preferably lispy books?) 15:28:19 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:21 Subfusc: no but the UI API is limited in C. but if you just want GL, it doesnt' matter. 15:28:40 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:45 at least it was limited the last time i checked .. you could always hack up some sort of evil interface if you really wanted 15:29:20 oGMo: okay, cool. Don't think I will be doing android intrfaces anytime soon, but definetly something to look at if i do 15:29:23 ^^ 15:31:13 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.233.198.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 15:31:39 H4ns: nice :) 15:33:17 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:34:13 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:42 -!- kilon [~kilon@77.49.245.198.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:37:32 -!- b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:37:35 -!- ngz [~user@8.214.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:43 hi 15:37:51 ngz [~user@8.214.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:29 please could anyone tell me a good tutorial for opengl with common-lisp, I'm reading http://nklein.com/2010/06/nehe-tutorials-for-cl-opengl/ 15:38:47 Posterdati: no one uses immediate GL anymore 15:38:55 kilon [~kilon@195.74.243.88.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:39:00 dlowe: and what then? 15:39:15 Posterdati: https://github.com/dlowe-net/Hello-gl 15:39:21 Posterdati: follow the link in the readme 15:39:25 thanks 15:39:36 it's shaders all the way down now 15:39:37 cfdm [~user@114.205.86.94] has joined #lisp 15:39:38 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:40:29 dlowe: http://duriansoftware.com/joe/An-intro-to-modern-OpenGL.-Chapter-1:-The-Graphics-Pipeline.html 15:40:31 dlowe: ? 15:40:47 Posterdati: your question is not clear. 15:41:06 dlowe: do you mean the link I posted? 15:41:16 Posterdati: is there another link in the readme? 15:41:25 yes 15:41:26 :) 15:41:34 An intro to modern OpenGL. 15:41:48 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:50 visar [~visar@77.29.157.202] has joined #lisp 15:42:02 ... that is the link to the url you pasted. 15:43:50 homie: I gave the definition of the RC host along. 15:44:04 homie: clhs logical-pathname-translations 15:44:10 pjb: so just a placeholder ? 15:45:02 IPmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:35 pjb: RC is very fun 15:46:01 pjb: I've got a little RC Smart 15:46:45 dlowe: is it possible to use gsll (grid) arrays in gl code? 15:48:18 Wjp cares anpit dalvik when there's the NDK? 15:48:26 pjb: that's what i said! 15:48:29 Posterdati: haven't tried 15:49:01 dlowe: because I've got a dcm matrix and I want to extract from it Euler's angles 15:49:04 homie: a logical host with translations defined to make logical pathnames to physical pathnames with strange, implementations or platform dependant names. 15:49:06 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-197-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:49:29 oGMo: Sorry, I'm reacting before finishing reading the backlog. 15:49:31 dlowe: then display a reference frame rotating according to the three Euler's angles 15:49:38 pjb: hehe 15:50:23 dlowe: I used (grid:make-foreign-array ...) to build arrays and matrices 15:51:12 Posterdati: I'm pretty sure you can load that into a shader parameter 15:51:24 dlowe: via cffi? 15:51:50 via whatever your GL interface is 15:52:15 there is no magic 15:52:30 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:52:58 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-197-89.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:47 indeed there is 15:54:21 -!- nalssi [~kenjin@2002:a398:5444::a398:5444] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:54:29 Magic is whatever you depend on that you don't understand. 15:54:49 gencgc often falls under this category :p 15:57:10 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@38.117.156.114] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 15:57:25 surely gencgc isn't that hairy .. i guess it may seem like magic if you aren't familiar with GCs 15:58:07 dlowe: sex too 15:58:53 snearch [~snearch@f053008031.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:07 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:03:07 -!- Mazingaro [~Tetsuja@host113-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:04:52 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128043006.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:05:20 lol 16:05:37 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:38 emacs-dwim [~user@rrcs-72-43-236-2.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:22 kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.241] has joined #lisp 16:09:23 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.241] has quit [Changing host] 16:09:23 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:09:57 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:10:49 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@175.242.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:11:19 oGMo: the particulars are pretty hairy 16:13:04 saage [~saage@187.52.209.147] has joined #lisp 16:13:05 -!- saage [~saage@187.52.209.147] has quit [Changing host] 16:13:05 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 16:13:49 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:02 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.137.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:20 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-210-163.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 16:19:31 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:20:04 dlowe: your example complains about ERROR: LOAD-IMAGE; cannot load file 'Unsupported image format' 16:20:40 PKHG [~PKHG_afk@ip9135cb37.speed.planet.nl] has joined #lisp 16:20:55 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:21:35 Posterdati: This software is provided as-is. Any expressed or implied warranties of fitness for any particular purpose are disclaimed. 16:21:50 ok 16:22:00 It worked on my box. Last year. 16:22:03 hallo, I was able ot activate slime with SBCL in emacs ;) I have a problem with a 'locked', how can I unlock the packages (SBCL I think) ?? 16:22:19 -!- IPmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:22:44 enclose it in without-package-locks ?! 16:22:52 PKHG: you probably want to "shadow" the symbols in the locked package instead of unlocking the package 16:23:26 dlove: if I know how to do that I could try ;-) please tellme 16:23:29 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:24:10 ok will try, I am called for dinner so going aflk ... 16:24:22 ... 16:24:28 -!- anothervenue [~anotherve@76.91.162.213] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 16:24:56 -!- PKHG is now known as PKHG_afk 16:25:02 ... 16:25:14 will back over some minutes ;-) 16:25:15 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053008031.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:28:38 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:02 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.108] has joined #lisp 16:29:25 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-226-248.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:31 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.108] has quit [Client Quit] 16:32:31 pnq [~nick@ACA357E5.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:32:35 -!- PKHG_afk is now known as PKHG 16:33:02 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.108] has joined #lisp 16:33:17 back form a cup of soup, rest takes some time to be preared ... 16:33:43 dlove: you can tell me how to activate 'shadow' ? 16:33:55 vantage|home [~vantage@123.223-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 16:34:47 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:19 PKHG: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/11_aa.htm 16:35:26 92AAA2PCU [~bar@151.38.30.160] has joined #lisp 16:35:26 17SABFS0B [~bar@151.38.30.160] has joined #lisp 16:35:35 will have a look, thanks! 16:36:05 -!- 17SABFS0B is now known as Blkt 16:36:31 -!- intinig [~user@93-50-99-219.ip152.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:36:32 hmm will have to try to see to understand (common-lisp newbie ;-) ) 16:36:52 PKHG: you might want to just use another name for whatever it is you want to do 16:37:24 sharenothing [~user@ool-ae2cc661.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:56 Hi, I am new to lisp, is there a homebrew package for split-sequence / cl-utilities? 16:38:24 steffi_s: (ql:quickload :split-sequence) (ql:quickload :cl-utilities) 16:38:27 dlowe: yes have to find out whihc part is differen (it is the source of AI from th 90ies from mr. Norvig ...) 16:38:32 steffi_s: http://quicklisp.org 16:38:39 -!- 92AAA2PCU [~bar@151.38.30.160] has quit [Client Quit] 16:40:05 pjb: thanks! 16:40:14 thanks will evtl. try again later ;-) 16:40:20 -!- PKHG [~PKHG_afk@ip9135cb37.speed.planet.nl] has left #lisp 16:40:53 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:42:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.173.248] has joined #lisp 16:42:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.173.248] has quit [Changing host] 16:42:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:46:58 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 16:47:40 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:41 Can clsql run on x86-64 win32? Quicklisp installs it (with clsql-20120520-git/uffi/clsql_uffi.dll). But then the atol64 function is undefined. 16:49:04 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@38.117.156.114] has joined #lisp 16:50:49 ykm [~ykm@182.237.186.55] has joined #lisp 16:53:46 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:54:10 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:54:43 Fare: Thanks for your clarification and response last night w/r/t l-i-l 16:55:44 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 16:57:57 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.84] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:00:37 lemonodor [~lemonodor@adsl-76-214-13-252.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:11 -!- dbushenko [~dim@86.57.253.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:31 -!- gf3 [~gf3@oftn/member/gf3] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:02:34 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:02:39 -!- Blkt [~bar@151.38.30.160] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:00 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:09 sanjoyd [sanjoyd@nat/google/x-ffldyjjdtggeuqkl] has joined #lisp 17:04:43 -!- visar [~visar@77.29.157.202] has left #lisp 17:05:04 gf3 [~gf3@oftn/member/gf3] has joined #lisp 17:05:22 visar [~visar@77.29.157.202] has joined #lisp 17:07:09 -!- sanjoyd [sanjoyd@nat/google/x-ffldyjjdtggeuqkl] has quit [Changing host] 17:07:09 sanjoyd [sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 17:07:22 -!- NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.0.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:39 NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.0.145] has joined #lisp 17:07:53 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:08:33 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 17:10:45 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:11:21 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:11:23 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-yuuwnvuxrmvxzkaj] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 17:11:24 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:11:39 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 17:12:00 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 17:12:27 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 17:13:43 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@173-22-6-159.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:15:46 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-241-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:16:14 -!- gf3 [~gf3@oftn/member/gf3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:16:19 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:18:01 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.84] has joined #lisp 17:18:20 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-rounfxseqoitmfve] has joined #lisp 17:18:29 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-wdpdchivxsqjannp] has joined #lisp 17:19:44 gf3 [~gf3@oftn/member/gf3] has joined #lisp 17:19:48 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:57 -!- ykm [~ykm@182.237.186.55] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:22:29 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:22:50 -!- ccomendant [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ccomendant] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:23:08 I prefer using cl-ppcre:split to split-sequence if I'm doing strings 17:24:13 -!- visar [~visar@77.29.157.202] has left #lisp 17:26:02 -!- kilon [~kilon@195.74.243.88.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:29:30 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 17:29:55 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 17:37:38 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 17:38:08 kilon [~kilon@77.49.111.168.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:39:08 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-167-149.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:18 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-170-236.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:45:07 if I use (satisfies type-checker-p) type specifier, its on by default in SBCL debug 1 safety 1 or off? 17:45:32 *maxm* would like to add some more constraints, but only with safety 2, not sure whats the best way to accomplish this 17:45:59 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA357E5.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:46:20 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:49:07 alama [~jessealam@109.144.235.121] has joined #lisp 17:49:41 -!- mirTapir [vutral@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:49:45 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.232] has joined #lisp 17:49:52 mirTapir [vutral@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has joined #lisp 17:54:13 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 17:54:27 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:54:28 -!- NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.0.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:54:42 NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.0.145] has joined #lisp 17:55:23 schmx [~marcus@c83-254-190-169.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:00:01 jarubyh [~jarubyh@cpe-72-182-64-111.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:00:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:01:49 What are some good video series to help teach myself Common Lisp? 18:02:26 no such thing. read a book 18:02:31 jarubyh: video is prob. not the best way. 18:03:00 I disagree. MIT's 6.001 from 1986 has so far been a good resource. 18:03:29 It's all Lisp Machine Lisp, but the same principles apply. 18:03:55 jarubyh: So watch that and then adapt the schemey scheme to CL :) 18:04:27 there's a series of videos about making a raytracer in cl, http://home.in.tum.de/~lehmanna/lisp-tutorial.html, but a book is really probably a better idea 18:05:11 there was a good Slime video 18:05:16 serkio [~sgarcia@mail.ageophysics.com] has joined #lisp 18:05:26 Macro's iirc 18:05:55 but thats not really for teaching CL 18:06:15 Bike: Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. 18:07:26 jarubyh: are you familiar with programming? 18:07:59 Guthur: Yes, but not functional programming. C++ and what not. 18:08:46 well you are in luck, CL is not a pure functional programming language 18:09:05 the raytracer videos should go some way to teaching you that, really. 18:09:07 read Practical Common Lisp, it's freely available on the web 18:09:08 it can be used as one -- see ACL2 18:09:21 Shall do. 18:10:56 Framedragger [~k@unaffiliated/framedragger] has joined #lisp 18:11:38 AeroNotix [~xeno@bda107.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:12:14 ticking [~janpaulbu@p578EE722.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:40 jarubyh: I thought mit's 6.001 videos were Scheme. 18:13:59 Depends on the year, but I'm pretty sure 1986 was Lisp Machine Lisp. 18:14:07 Now they're doing it in Python. Eww. 18:14:12 jarubyh: that wasn't 6.001 18:14:15 Yeah. 18:14:19 p_l: What was that? 18:14:19 that's 6.01, I think, that does python? 18:14:23 and Python is 6.01 18:14:27 p_l: Okay, I'm no expert. 18:14:44 while old 6.001 is done by SIPB as an extra, afaik 18:16:01 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 18:16:07 6.001 was created together with Scheme, and by 1986 they did have scheme, even in hw form 18:16:58 And taught by none other than __the__ GJS 18:17:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:19:47 Does anyone in here own a lisp machine? 18:20:05 (i've heard about them in passing and I understand that maybe they're all in museums but maybe not...) 18:20:15 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:20:27 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-233-81.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:20:32 hello #lisp 18:20:51 a quick quicklisp question... how do I uninstall a package? 18:20:56 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-254-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:41 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:21:49 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:22:52 hm. maybe I'm doing it wrong... 18:23:24 AeroNotix: some people have, both "big" ones as well as MacIvory models. There's a guy in Bristol, I think, who was commercially offering support back i Symbolics' days, and has a bunch of parts and complete systems 18:23:43 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 18:23:48 p_l: would love to play on one 18:25:21 AeroNotix: go to TPB, download old (08? earlier?) Ubuntu amd64, download (again from TPB) OpenGenera 2.0, download snap4, find docs and configure it to run 18:25:42 p_l: but it's not 'lisp hardware' 18:25:54 p_l: I was under the impression that the machines were natively running lisp 18:26:04 p_l: as in, Lisp was their 'assembly' 18:26:51 AeroNotix: OpenGenera 2.0 runs the same "macrocode" - Virtual Lisp Machine was considered "microcode" plus "hw glue" 18:27:15 p_l: I'll have to read up on it 18:27:34 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@123.223-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 18:28:14 VLM interpreted Ivory instruction set, the same as the one that ran on Ivory chips (MacIvory and other late Symbolics hw - it was their last released chip) 18:28:53 interesting 18:29:01 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:07 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@adsl-76-214-13-252.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 18:30:26 -!- Framedragger [~k@unaffiliated/framedragger] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:31:05 AeroNotix: OpenGenera cd also contains sources, but they are in Genera's tape archive image, so you need a working Genera system to open it 18:31:23 aha 18:32:23 xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.135.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:32:32 AeroNotix: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x3ngio8d5re2tb2/screen.PNG <--- also, example of finished procedure ;) 18:33:42 cool :) 18:34:03 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.178.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:34:34 -!- ngz [~user@8.214.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:35:51 -!- jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:38:56 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-250-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:39:59 -!- alama [~jessealam@109.144.235.121] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:40:22 yates [~user@nc-71-48-9-61.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:39 has there been any further work marrying weblocks and yui? 18:40:58 i.e., recent work 18:41:15 haven't heard anything 18:41:24 check on weblocks group? 18:41:31 good idea 18:41:48 both of them? :) 18:42:44 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@p578EE722.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:43:01 dunno 18:43:15 weblocks didn't really "click" with me 18:43:16 pnq [~nick@ACA21DF7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:43:16 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:43:54 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:44:01 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 18:44:34 does anyone see qt/webtoolkit picking up a lot of steam? the problem i see is that you have to have a plugin. 18:44:57 commonqt/webtoolkit 18:45:24 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 18:45:52 yates: you mean Qt in general or with Lisp? 18:45:53 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:14 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:15 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-73-86.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:46:25 AeroNotix: in general, I guess 18:47:14 the question I have (for myself) is this: should I continue to put my time into learning weblocks or Qt if the goal is to build web apps? 18:47:20 yates: well Qt is MASSIVE 18:47:27 yates: it's used extensively 18:47:36 yates: especially on the nokia phones 18:47:39 yates: Qt itself doesn't seem to me like a big player on web apps 18:47:53 p_l: Qt is a gui framework 0o 18:48:15 p_l: oh I see what you were saying :P 18:48:21 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:48:23 yates: Qt is not a web-oriented framework 18:48:26 yates: in modern approach, you're better off learning JS and match it with "web service" done in Lisp :) 18:48:29 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 18:48:48 AeroNotix: I think they were doing something weird related to web as well, recently 18:49:23 p_l: hmm, I had a Qt hiatus for about 4 months 18:49:35 p_l: just this week picked it back up to finish a project off 18:49:36 p_l: i sorta feel that is the case too - thanks for helping me straighten out my compass.. 18:51:21 ticking [~janpaulbu@p5B3D1C2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:07 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-rounfxseqoitmfve] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:53:19 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-qnuytsdntskyibdr] has joined #lisp 18:54:08 dlowe: your examples worked 18:54:33 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-121-180.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:50 dlowe: I added :image-type :png 18:55:53 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:56:16 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:56:31 -!- ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:57:18 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:47 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:15 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:29 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 19:00:25 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:39 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 19:01:22 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:24 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:01:38 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:01:55 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:04 Posterdati: ah, neat. 19:02:09 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-233-81.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:12 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:50 Qt is one of under-appreciated toolkits 19:02:54 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:25 its a tribute to Nokia managers, that they are bankrupting the company with literally the best portable gui toolkit ever 19:03:27 max: How so? It has a whole DE (which I'm using right now) built with it. 19:03:42 while aapl runs circles around them with lame objective-c crap 19:03:54 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.16.112] has joined #lisp 19:04:08 which no one wanted to touch with a ten foot pole, when it was called openstep 19:04:16 Posterdati: I guess I should update it 19:04:26 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:05:17 hitecnologys1 [~No_Name@94.137.11.143] has joined #lisp 19:05:32 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 19:06:07 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:40 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:07 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:08:39 mucker_ [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has joined #lisp 19:09:45 -!- mucker_ [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has quit [Client Quit] 19:10:21 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:10:44 -!- sav [~lsd@peirce.xored.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:10:45 mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has joined #lisp 19:17:12 ynniv [~ynniv@c-50-133-193-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:17 sav [~lsd@peirce.xored.org] has joined #lisp 19:17:25 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@p5B3D1C2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:19:19 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:20:01 ticking [~janpaulbu@p5B3D1C2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:26 maxm: appl? 19:22:31 aapl? 19:22:51 aple 19:22:53 apple 19:23:35 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.137.254] has joined #lisp 19:24:04 maxm: i don't think nokia's downturn is that much related to the user interface as the hardware and branding 19:26:32 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has left #lisp 19:26:32 nauar [~Grunt@80.31.112.137] has joined #lisp 19:27:35 prsteele [~user@dhcp-128-253-211-249.res-wired.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 19:28:09 I understand why macros are useful, but could you replace all macros with functions (and special forms) if you were willing to change your calling syntax a bit? 19:28:17 for example, passing all arguments in quoted? 19:28:43 prsteele: macros are for adding syntax 19:28:55 prsteele: the part where macros are different is *when* they run, not *how* 19:28:58 prsteele: You'd be missing out on having the macroexpanded form compiled. 19:29:18 dlowe: sure. I'm not suggesting I actually do that, I was just wondering if they add anything from a theoretical perspective 19:29:29 in fact, you can think of normal macros as functions that are given quoted forms, which run during macroexpansion time 19:29:30 dlowe: for example, special forms allow branching... 19:32:07 when using clsql, how can I use a default value that's defined in the DB? I get "slot is unbound", but NIL is of the wrong type ... (would be ID field, type integer, with a default of nextval('sequence')) 19:32:16 in other words, could a dedicated programmer replace any lisp program without using macros? I'm not worried about efficiency 19:32:25 prsteele: turing complete, equivalent blablabla 19:32:40 prsteele: turing completeness does that argument in with maths 19:32:45 madnificent: perfect, thank you 19:32:51 now I can use them happily 19:33:46 prsteele: luckily us lispers have issues with our brain-cycle-limitations, not cpu-cycle-limitations 19:34:50 -!- emacs-dwim [~user@rrcs-72-43-236-2.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:35:42 prsteele: fun bit - at least some CL implementations seem to "describe" macros as functions with a bit extra 19:35:45 prsteele: Yeah, that's what happens at macroexpansion, a dedicated macroexpander replaces any lisp program with one without macros ;) 19:35:47 madnificent: Just started in lisp, and writing macros was bothering me because all the tutorials presented them as 'special' rather than just 'incredibly useful'. Thanks for the help 19:36:46 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 19:37:11 prsteele: many languages, especially older ones, lack similar functionality to CL macros, thus the "Special" bit 19:37:52 it was (and is) part of the "secret sauce" 19:38:25 thanks all! 19:39:20 prsteele, if you're curious about the more mathy end there are a few papers on e.g. lambda calculus with something like quotation, but it's not that relevant to real programming and of course it's not going to get you more than Turing power. 19:39:23 -!- jarubyh [~jarubyh@cpe-72-182-64-111.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:39:47 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:40:15 prsteele: macros are essential to understanding the real power of lisp. but you can certainly start learning the language without them. it took me a while to grasp when they are useful. i first learned them, then i ignored their existence. then i started using them in places where they really didn't belong (but that's not that bad, you gain experience writing them). now i use them sparingly, but i get very agitated when 19:40:15 them (as in: when not writing lisp). 19:40:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:25 some languages have similar features without using preprocessors (or at least external preprocessors), but they tend to be weird (or be created through, literally, software archeology like certain new erlang lib) 19:41:20 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:25 -!- nauar [~Grunt@80.31.112.137] has quit [] 19:41:40 p_l: any language with an eval statement could be considered to have it, I guess 19:41:53 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:42:24 prsteele: the problem is transforming code without jumping through horrible hoops 19:42:42 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:02 p_l: sure, lisp is by far the best I've seen 19:44:44 dlowe: actually I need to draw an orthonormal reference frame in 3d 19:44:44 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 19:45:10 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-210-163.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:46:54 wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-165-77.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:46:57 hi 19:47:14 I have a ":UTF-8 stream decoding error." 19:47:30 on #(188) which is "ö" on my system. 19:47:54 any idea where the glitch may come from? 19:48:53 188 cannot be ö in UTF8 19:49:41 188 would be iso-latin1? 19:50:52 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:51:01 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 19:51:28 so emacs is not running in utf-8 mode? 19:51:29 -.- 19:52:27 if #(188) is what swank got from emacs, then that's correct 19:52:57 (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) and restart slime 19:53:44 ok but its files on disk that cause that 19:53:54 so I guess I have to convert them to utf-8 19:54:37 I did create them with emacs but I dont think slime has anything to do with it? 19:55:22 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@c-50-133-193-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ynniv] 19:56:08 francogrex [~user@109.130.32.139] has joined #lisp 19:58:00 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:44 wakeup: go to *scratch*, write (ucs-insert 188), and type C-x C-e at the end. It will insert what it thinks is 188; you can also try (ucs-insert #x188), etc 19:59:06 prsteele: C-j works also, i think 19:59:19 (at the end of the expression 19:59:21 ) 20:00:21 hmm 20:00:23 weirf 20:00:25 weird 20:00:42 it thinkis its ¼ 20:00:44 -!- nachtwandler_ [~nachtwand@p57AD7BB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:00:56 file says the files are utf-8 20:01:05 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:01:09 not that I trust file very much... 20:02:15 wakeup: 188 is 1/4 for me too 20:02:32 wakeup: #x188 is  20:03:30 -!- Natch [~Natch|@178.73.212.231] has quit [Quit: Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.] 20:03:37 ez271218 [d52f4724@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 20:05:33 it is 1/4 20:06:26 clintm [~clintm@001e52f0de2b.click-network.com] has joined #lisp 20:06:58 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:07:20 so why are the characters in my files messed up 20:07:26 (and x (y)) vs (if x (y)) ... Is there any reason to use one over the other? 20:07:33 ugh... stupid emoticons. 20:07:38 on two different computers 20:07:42 abeaumont [~Alfredo@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 20:08:32 clintm: IF without a THEN clause is considered bad style. 20:08:44 ez271218: great... thanks! 20:08:47 s/THEN/ELSE/ 20:08:55 Right, yea, I gotcha :) 20:09:17 ez271218: where did you come up with that bullshit? 20:09:33 Like I said, it's a style thing. 20:09:44 But the reasoning can be found in Norvig 2000? 20:10:25 *clintm* continues to listen... 20:10:26 Essentially, one should use the fact that the standard dictionary has both WHEN and IF forms to give more clues to the person reading the code. 20:10:47 If IF *always* has an ELSE clause, one can mentally parse errors better. 20:11:03 "mentally" i.e. by just browsing through the code. 20:11:38 I've no problems with an else, I've problems with a "then" 20:11:41 If style is a matter of taste, then, yes this might be bullshit to you. 20:12:14 But if style is more like a knowledge that improves code (and coding), then at least there are arguments for when to use IF. 20:12:19 ez271218: Good point. I think I'll make it my style as well. A few rules like that are a good idea, especially when you're still in the intermediate stage. 20:13:03 what are you talking about anyway? within a loop macro of just good old "if" ane "when" ? 20:13:12 me? 20:13:19 ez 20:13:39 francogrex: I trust you saw the original question... 20:13:59 *ez271218* missed the original question. 20:14:11 AND should be reserved for boolean constructs. AND implies two conditions should be satisfied. WHEN is a better form to use when you (a) want to evaluate the consequent depending on the predicate or (b) when you wish to conditionally execute side effects. Like others have said, IF is best always with an else-clause 20:14:12 resending... 20:14:15 right I did, and ez271218 meant else not then, so sorry my bad 20:14:18 (and x (y)) vs (if x (y)) ... Is there any reason to use one over the other? 20:14:44 yes yes ez271218 is right, sorry again, I didn't see his s/THEN/ELSE 20:15:29 *ez271218* missed the part that described the LOOP context that clintm/francogrex are considering. 20:15:51 b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:16:17 Now that I've asked this, I am reminded of my (personal) disdain for people who leave the braces off of an if statement if the then clause is a single line. 20:17:09 clintm: in C lang ? 20:17:42 francogrex: yea, js comes to mind... I think you can do it in c. If memory serves, perl and ruby allow you to do that too. 20:17:59 clintm: I'm with you there, but I know some great C coders who *always* leave off the braces on single statement conditionals. Must have been a lot of "ed" poisoning in the lines in the 1980s. 20:18:09 I always quietly disliked that style. 20:18:17 ez271218: if loop you can literally use an ELSE like loop ... if ... do else do ... 20:18:58 ##c would probably be happy to debate the merits of saving vertical space versus facilitating edits. 20:19:11 clintm: I also don't like it but it gives an impression of expertise if code is condensed 20:19:27 pkhuong: Oh, I think they'd happily debate anything, but yes, I see your point. :) 20:20:25 *ez271218* picked up this habit of always using the keyword forms for LOOP (e.g. (loop :for line = (read-line s nil :eof) :until (eq line :eof) :collecting line). "Anyone have a similar style habit? Do you know where it is 'from'?" 20:20:26 francogrex: impression only, though imo. That said, I know some 'Rembrandts with a text editor' coders like ez271218 who do it out of habit. 20:21:34 ez271218: I can't correctly write a loop without it. :/ then again, I'm still working my way though LoL so I'm hardly intermediate at this point. 20:22:49 -!- serkio [~sgarcia@mail.ageophysics.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:23:07 -!- jnbek [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has quit [Quit: kthx] 20:23:21 jnbek [~jnbek@2607:f358:1:fed5:22:0:7147:e4f9] has joined #lisp 20:23:21 -!- jnbek [~jnbek@2607:f358:1:fed5:22:0:7147:e4f9] has quit [Changing host] 20:23:21 jnbek [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has joined #lisp 20:23:47 francogrex: LOOP's use of conditionals has always seemed slightly broken in that I've gotten into some forms with several conditionals that I had to look at the macro expansion to figure out what I was doing wrong. 20:24:38 can I open a file with a different encdoing say latin1? 20:24:57 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-170-236.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:25:08 *ez271218* needs to go read the CLHS LOOP entry again to check a hunch on what the sequence of conditionals like "IF IF ELSE IF ELSE ELSE" would actually do. 20:26:24 wakeup: depends on your implementation. If you use FLEXI-STREAMS if your implementation's char support isn't rich enought 20:26:43 ez271218: if you have a copy of Land of Lisp, there's a great table of all the loop keywords in it 20:26:55 ok, I should be honest. Every time I come up against a situation where loop would work, I refactor the code to use mapcar. :/ 20:26:59 *ez271218* hasn't had a chance to get Land of Lisp. 20:27:05 Summer reading on the beach! 20:27:10 Oh, I meant Let over Lambda 20:27:39 *ez271218* needs to read that one too, actually. 20:27:55 re: loop / mapcar - I've been doing haskell for about four years so map and its ilk are big buddies to me. 20:28:07 Nice that we're still getting new Lisp titles in 2012. 20:28:51 Makes me think that the Renaissance will have an Enlightenment. 20:28:55 wakeup: I believe every implementation supports latin-1 encoded files. 20:29:05 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 20:29:05 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:29:20 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 20:30:59 loop is fine, I get screwed daily with do's syntax 20:31:02 -!- KindOne [KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:31:10 clintm: http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~manuel/obfuscate/obfuscate.html you'll find weirdness there 20:31:16 I am using sbcl and for some reason I am getting :UTF-8 stream decing errors on characters like öäü 20:31:29 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-167-149.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:31:35 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 20:31:40 ez271218, and more lisp titles will be coming out [sometime]! 20:31:47 wakeup: osx? 20:31:48 wakeup: ensure you got UTF-8 in all links of the chain 20:31:57 arch linux 20:32:03 locale is set to utf8 20:32:09 As p_l suggests, what is the SLIME line? 20:32:13 maybe emacs? I dont know 20:32:30 UTF8 http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=1270 20:32:34 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@108-222-196-145.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:34 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@108-222-196-145.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:32:34 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 20:32:42 would slime affect open? 20:33:04 (sbcl ("/usr/local/bin/sbcl") :coding-system :utf-8-unix) always seems to help me. 20:33:31 Does it still happen when you don't use SLIME? i.e. naked sbcl? 20:33:58 wakeup: No, but maybe Emacs is not invoking the inferior sbcl with the right switches. 20:34:11 sbcl mostly just works, but there are corner cases. 20:34:58 szll happens without slime 20:35:04 Oop. thats ":coding-system utf-8-unix". Should be a regular symbol. 20:35:23 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.139.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:36:16 wakeup: Guess my hunch about the coding system is totally wrong. Sorry. 20:36:57 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.16.112] has left #lisp 20:37:03 And, no, I wouldn't expect that SLIME would affect CL:OPEN. 20:37:17 could someone upload a utf8 encoded file with german umlauts (öäü) in it for me? 20:37:23 mybe arch linux is just messing up 20:37:39 It should be the same as latin1 (I think). 20:37:47 ez271218: no. 20:37:56 -!- kilon [~kilon@77.49.111.168.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has left #lisp 20:37:57 wakeup: you're still trying to read a file in latin-1, this isn't an issue with the typing such characters at the REPL, right? 20:38:15 *ez271218* needs to go read the UTF8 link. 20:39:02 wakeup: http://common-lisp.net/~sionescu/misc/testutf8.txt 20:39:21 Right. UTF-8 is only "the same" as ASCII. Duh. 20:40:30 pkhuong: actually I am trying to read utf-8 files, but it seems the files are not utf-8 since sbcl throws errors trying to read it 20:40:36 I have a string and want to remove an optional regexpr? 20:41:16 wakeup: what's the value of sb-impl::*default-external-format*? 20:42:05 also happens with the utf8 test file 20:42:12 well at least my files arent screwed up then 20:42:20 thanks for the testfile btw 20:42:49 pkhuong: :UTF-8 20:43:10 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.32.139] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:11 add^_ [~add^_^@m37-2-218-121.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:44:22 werid 20:44:23 paste a small repeatable test case on lisppaste. I believe something fundamental just isn't getting communicated through IRC. 20:44:54 true 20:45:04 I just found out that read-line works just fine 20:45:23 must be something with my code 20:46:35 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:46:43 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 20:47:51 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@p5B3D1C2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:47:56 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 20:48:01 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:33 ok I think I know whats going on 20:49:05 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21DF7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:49:08 could using FILE-POSITION lead to this, because FILE-POSITION is bytes not characters? 20:50:56 francogrex [~user@109.130.32.139] has joined #lisp 20:52:03 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:03 what's the use of this? https://github.com/deadtrickster/cl-annot 20:52:32 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 20:53:16 francogrex: dunno, only project i know of that uses it is clack and caveman iirc 20:53:22 wakeup: setting file-position to a value that wasn't returned by file-position itself is a crapshoot. Yes, it may well explain what you're observing. 20:53:34 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@91-074.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:53:44 francogrex: if an example might help you figure it out i'd look there 20:53:58 tungsten_jnbek [~jnbek@74-220-196-96.bluehost.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:58 -!- tungsten_jnbek [~jnbek@74-220-196-96.bluehost.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:53:58 tungsten_jnbek [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has joined #lisp 20:54:21 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:54:33 -!- tungsten_jnbek [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has quit [Client Quit] 20:54:33 j_king: ok, but the concept and practical usefulness of "annotation" eludes me 20:54:42 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@23-25-209-73-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:43 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@23-25-209-73-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:54:43 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has joined #lisp 20:55:19 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-197-89.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:56:27 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:57:07 francogrex: I can only think of the Python analog, which are decorators which ultimately are just syntax-sugar for f(g(x)) 20:57:44 just syntax sugar really. 20:58:32 dunno how awesome it is for CL projects as I don't think I've found a need for it.. but I use decorators sometimes in Python mainly because... it's python. 20:59:37 -!- zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-aphronnqhlhgnkiv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:42 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 21:00:13 http://fukamachi.github.com/caveman/ the (say-hi) example kind of illustrates the concept 21:01:02 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:01:02 Do I need to do some cleanup after each postmodern query? I get error this connection is already in use when I use two consecutive queries 21:01:23 instead of (url 'get "/hi" (defun say-hi (..) ..) you can just use the snazzy "@url GET '/hi'" syntax to wrap the (defun) form 21:02:23 "Database error: This connection is still processing another query" 21:02:31 -!- aloysius21 [~user@99-123-152-51.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:13 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 21:03:47 b_: use a new connection if you need to consult the database from within a doquery 21:03:55 Oh I see, I am doing doquery and inside doing insert. so the connection is busy in the doquery 21:04:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ht-210.humtec.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:04:06 b_: or load the whole result set instead of using doquery 21:04:19 -!- ksergio [~sgarcia@mail.ageophysics.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:04:25 got it, thanks 21:05:11 instead of using e.g. (declare (optimize (speed 3) (safety 0))), wouldnt it be better to refrain from using the declarations and let the compiler settings decide wether to optimize or not? 21:06:22 wakeup: what compiler setting? 21:07:20 sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy for instance 21:08:03 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:08:12 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-254-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:08:12 for example I use (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'debug 3) in development but (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'optimize 3) in production. 21:08:57 that's not portable, and a fairly big hammer. Library authors usually have a decent clue where the inner loops are. Enabling (speed 3) everywhere just makes debugging and development more painful to no advantage. 21:10:38 but if you have the source you can always compile with (debug 3) to develop/debug, unless of course there are declare statements which ignore it... 21:11:51 j_king: ok thanks it's clearer now 21:12:11 wakeup: compiling my FFT at debug 3 will make it nearly unusable. Turning speed to 3 everywhere is useless because it's spending 99% of its time in a few runtime-generated routines. 21:12:11 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:44 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:01 so, yes, I do believe that local declarations are best, *especially* when we can impose a minimal value on debug. 21:14:12 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:39 hmm ok 21:14:41 makes sense 21:15:35 You seem to be using a workflow with completely distinct development and deployment. Yet, it seems to me it's exactly when we don't expect issues (i.e. in deployment mode) that having debug information is useful. 21:15:37 clhs load-time-value 21:15:52 Is Das Boot gone? 21:15:59 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:16:37 I certainly like the way I can fix and improve long-running code in CL, while C++ forces me to kill the process and restart from scratch. 21:17:22 booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:31 also, enabling speed 3 everywhere is likely to result in slowdowns for real applications... 21:18:04 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.32.139] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:38 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-250-181.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:08 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-248-184.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:47 visar [~visar@77.29.157.46] has joined #lisp 21:23:06 is it even possible to write functional ( 21:23:40 erm sorry, ...to write nondestructive INPUT-FIRST INPUT-REST and INPUT-EMPTY-P methods for streams? 21:24:06 as analouges to FIRST, REST and NULL 21:24:51 wakeup: streams are not lists, and as such there isn't any "non desctructive" way of handling them 21:25:13 no. There's listen/peek-char, but, otherwise, you get to copy the stream to a sequence and index into it. 21:25:28 hmm 21:25:36 wakeup: some functional programmers talk about "stream" objects which are in fact a sort of lazy list that can be used for IO, but that is not the same thing whatsoever as a CL "stream" 21:25:37 so no stream like infinite list 21:25:52 yeah ok 21:26:43 wakeup: no, in order to make an infinte list non-destructive, you would have to keep an entire infinte list. 21:26:47 wakeup: easily written if that's what you want, but there's no support for operating on those in the standard. IIRC, even the sequence API doesn't allow streams. 21:26:52 And well, that requires infinite storage space 21:26:53 Is there a lazy list stream wrapper around already or do I have to roll one myself 21:27:01 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:27:05 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:27:12 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-wdpdchivxsqjannp] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 21:27:17 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:27:26 well I think I meant lazy instead of infinite 21:27:43 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@d149031.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:27:58 wakeup: it is fairly easy to write it with macros in Lisp, you should just google Common Lisp and streams 21:28:01 tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 21:28:10 or lazy evaluation 21:28:44 wakeup: I'm sure lots of people have written toy implementations of various sophistication, but I can't think of any solid library. 21:29:31 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:29:32 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:30:37 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:54 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:32:25 saage [~saage@200.195.179.34] has joined #lisp 21:32:26 -!- saage [~saage@200.195.179.34] has quit [Changing host] 21:32:26 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 21:32:26 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:46 -!- yates [~user@nc-71-48-9-61.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.96.1] 21:35:12 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:35:13 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 21:39:30 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:40:09 rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dzbkxiazxcpxzubw] has joined #lisp 21:40:18 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:40:19 -!- clintm [~clintm@001e52f0de2b.click-network.com] has quit [Quit: clintm] 21:41:54 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 21:42:09 -!- edgar-rft [~me@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Perpetual deadlock] 21:44:10 can i make a simple sha1 or sha256 sum with ironclad? i seem to be missing something for doing this. 21:44:54 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:45:20 sorry, this is simple, but how do I load a library I've installed? I install cl-utilities with quicklisp, and I can't figure out how to actually access the library 21:45:57 rosetta has something :) 21:46:00 prsteele: quicklisp loads and installs with the same call. 21:46:12 prsteele: (ql:quickload 'cl-utilities) 21:46:28 prsteele: or, alternatively in many implementations (require 'cl-utilities) 21:46:50 prsteele: you probably want to make an asd file for each of your projects so you can record the dependencies and have them load automatically when you load your project. 21:47:14 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 21:47:21 madnificent: the last time I was actually writing CL code, (ironclad:digest-sequence :sha1 seq) worked 21:48:02 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:19 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 21:49:18 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m37-2-218-121.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:49:29 madnificent: http://paste.lisp.org/+2SFE 21:51:20 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 21:52:34 KindOne [KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut] has joined #lisp 21:53:50 i got it from teh rosetta code. but thanks all :) 21:53:50 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:14 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:19 call-process-region is the only process related function which sends to stdin? 21:56:56 Buglouse: #emacs-lisp is that way --> 21:57:32 what is #\Space? (string= " " #\Space) returns 't, but " " and #\Space seem to behave differently 21:58:16 " " is a string with one character, #\Space. 21:58:27 prsteele: #\Space is type char, any string is a single-dimensional array of chars. 21:58:38 and string 21:59:05 clintm [~user@001e52f0de2b.click-network.com] has joined #lisp 21:59:12 and string= coerces things to strings, sorry 21:59:14 yes well (null (stringp #\Space)) => T 21:59:51 So when I just evaluate #\Space it evaluates to #\Space... any tips on how I would have figured out that its a char on my own? 21:59:53 Framedragger [~k@unaffiliated/framedragger] has joined #lisp 22:00:03 prsteele: (type-of #\Space) 22:00:13 brilliant 22:00:14 cl:characterp 22:00:18 that's the syntax of chars... 22:00:45 tfb: ah. ya, didn't know that, thanks 22:00:55 thanks all 22:01:09 -!- Framedragger [~k@unaffiliated/framedragger] has quit [Client Quit] 22:01:10 but the other answers are as good or better 22:01:41 Framedragger [~k@unaffiliated/framedragger] has joined #lisp 22:01:52 TDJACR [~TDJACR@lilug/member/tdjacr] has joined #lisp 22:02:57 prsteele: also there are these types of shenanigans: (string= #\SPACE '| |) => T 22:03:18 mon_key: what do pipes mean? 22:03:19 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:03:37 They're escape syntax for symbols. 22:04:08 | | is a symbol (with very unfriendly identity) 22:04:13 bike: so I could so (setq |with spaces| 7) 22:04:26 prsteele: so you can (defvar |whatever your wó¬ó desires| "foo") 22:04:39 thanks 22:04:41 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 22:05:23 prsteele: (symbol-name '| |) => " " 22:05:50 man, I keep running into these issues I feel like I should be able to solve myself... what would #-quicklisp do? Is that a special directive? quicklisp put it in my .clisprc.lisp file 22:05:52 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-169-88-121.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:11 prsteele: Keep in mind, that symbols escaped like this are not subject to case manipulation, which leads to obscure bugs sometimes. 22:06:32 antoszka: thanks, I can't imagine I'd ever want to use them haha 22:06:47 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:06:47 prsteele: It does not evaluate the following form if quicklisp is not present in *features* 22:06:50 prsteele: It's a reader macro that makes the reader skip the subsequent form if :quicklisp isn't in *features*. What are you learning from? It should go over these things. 22:07:02 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:07:12 bike: basically hacking away + google searches 22:07:31 Try "Practical Common Lisp" and the Common Lisp HyperSpec. 22:07:33 bike: but google isn't very friendly to searching for #- 22:07:40 thanks 22:07:51 prsteele: http://www.xach.com/lisp/clhs-search/ is very friendly to searching for #- 22:07:52 any good guides on how to use nginx to host multiple domains on one ip address? 22:08:13 (the websites are lisp, so it's related) 22:08:14 prsteele: particularly, http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw60/CLHS/Body/02_dh.htm 22:08:15 prsteele: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_d.htm 22:09:48 madnificent: this one maybe http://zaries.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/lisp-web-server-from-scratch-using-hunchentoot-and-nginx/ 22:10:05 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:10:21 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:10:50 mon_key: probably, thanks! 22:12:11 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@214-106-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:35 madnificent: basically, you want to set up a number of proxies, proxying to a given local hunchentoot instance, specialed on the domain name :) 22:12:45 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:13:11 madnificent: by the server_name directive. 22:13:34 specialized* 22:13:41 mon_key: not really. but what antoszka says will probably help :) 22:14:02 antoszka: i have multiple hunchentoot/lisp instances running on different ports 22:14:35 antoszka: at least, that's what i'm aiming for. however, i want port 80 to be dispatched to another port based on what domain is requested. 22:15:35 madnificent: Yep, that's the way. For each domain you define an upstream, and a server that reacts on a given domain name and proxies the requests to the relevant upstream. 22:15:52 All the servers listen on your public IP4/6. 22:16:03 chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 22:16:22 -!- chu_ is now known as chu 22:16:51 antoszka: this is going to sound silly, but do you have an example configuration file that you could paste. my google-fu seems to be lacking (i must be entering the wrong search strings as i'm not getting what i want to see) 22:16:59 madnificent: yeah, one sec. 22:17:23 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:32 antoszka: awesome, thanks! 22:17:42 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:18:15 madnificent: NP, i have that link handy is cuz I expect to be confused similarly in the near future. 22:19:52 mon_key: yeah, i was thinking something similar ages ago 22:19:54 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@175.242.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:20:25 madnificent: http://antoszka.pl/p/madnificent.conf.html 22:22:29 antoszka: is server_name important for anything? 22:22:46 madnificent: yeah, that's the domain specializer 22:22:50 antoszka: and thanks a million, this'll save me some time researching 22:23:04 madnificent: it's the most important bit probably :) 22:23:05 isn't that foo.my.tld 22:23:10 oh right 22:23:13 that's the keyword 22:23:17 not a variable to fill in 22:23:19 yeah 22:23:27 server_name is like :server-name in lisp 22:23:30 thanks 22:23:42 alama [~jessealam@stgt-5f702687.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:48 np 22:23:51 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-wzcjhvqoefjxnvtd] has joined #lisp 22:24:44 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@38.117.156.114] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 22:25:10 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:28:51 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:23 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:39:25 ozialien [~ernest@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:32 -!- booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:12 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-wzcjhvqoefjxnvtd] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 22:42:23 Guthur` [~user@212.183.128.19] has joined #lisp 22:43:31 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:45:47 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.84] has joined #lisp 22:49:47 arrsim` [~user@russell.its.unimelb.edu.au] has joined #lisp 22:50:05 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:52:00 alvis` [~user@tx-184-6-177-129.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:58 -!- ttm [~The_third@47319hpv099117.ikoula.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:53:20 The_third_man [~The_third@47319hpv099117.ikoula.com] has joined #lisp 22:53:54 -!- alama [~jessealam@stgt-5f702687.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 22:54:10 -!- alvis [~user@tx-184-6-177-129.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:56:53 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 22:59:25 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:48 stumbles [~stumbles@2001:44b8:4171:3a00:226:5eff:feef:4700] has joined #lisp 23:08:38 wakeup_ [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-178-32.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:09:26 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:09:40 -!- albertlee [~albertlee@59.108.40.194] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:10:53 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-qnuytsdntskyibdr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:11:00 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:11:09 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-165-77.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:12:30 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@bda107.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 23:14:33 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 23:16:22 -!- sharenothing [~user@ool-ae2cc661.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:17:54 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:19:13 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:29 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:23:01 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:24:51 kanru` [~kanru@61-228-144-54.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:05 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:28:56 -!- prsteele [~user@dhcp-128-253-211-249.res-wired.cornell.edu] has left #lisp 23:30:21 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:22 -!- cfdm [~user@114.205.86.94] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:37 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 23:36:49 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:36:49 Do any CL compilers currently perform fusion of functional operations? e.g., (mapcar foo (mapcar bar seq)) == (mapcar (compose foo bar) seq) 23:37:19 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:37:31 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:41 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 23:46:27 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has joined #lisp 23:46:28 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has quit [Changing host] 23:46:28 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 23:47:37 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:48:23 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:55 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-173-66-213-19.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:52 Natch [~Natch@178.73.212.231] has joined #lisp 23:57:15 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:27 -!- visar [~visar@77.29.157.46] has left #lisp 23:58:49 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-244-241.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp