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00:48:51 (I'm using GNU CLISP) 00:50:23 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/StartPts.htm 00:51:51 great, thanks sykopomp 00:52:36 stumbles: CLISP has its own documentation for implementation-specific details, as do most other Lisp implementations, but the bulk of the juicy stuff is right in the hyperspec. 00:54:53 -!- edgar-rft [~me@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Mental blackout] 01:00:00 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:30 -!- mikeit [~mikeit@2-231-21-249.ip205.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:07:32 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.231.196] has joined #lisp 01:09:46 wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-100-168.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:10:32 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:49 stumbles: http://www.xach.com/lisp/clhs-search/ is a handy web service for fast reference lookup 01:11:04 DataLinkDroid [~DataLink@1.125.104.82] has joined #lisp 01:11:13 mikeit [~mikeit@2-231-21-249.ip205.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 01:11:56 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:12:59 thanks kpreid, very handy 01:13:54 Bah, in Emacs a Texinfo version is most convenient. From http://users-phys.au.dk/harder/dpans.html 01:15:07 Heh. I guess it should have been obvious, but (make-thread (lambda () (without-interrupts ...))) is interruptible. :) 01:16:17 At least in CCL it is. I assume the case is the same for SBCL. 01:16:45 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-fouxsjxsbmqeycya] has joined #lisp 01:18:06 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 01:18:43 sykopomp: make-thread is interruptible of course. Or do you mean the ... are interruptible too? 01:19:01 The thread created by that call is interruptible. 01:19:22 Last time I looked at without-interrupts, it expanded to progn. 01:19:40 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-fouxsjxsbmqeycya] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:45 because interrupts scheduled before WITHOUT-INTERRUPTS take effect before the protection. :\ 01:20:40 why are you trying to do that, anyway? 01:20:40 -!- hugod [~user@76.65.142.49] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:22:37 I have a specific interrupt that can be used, but it expects a certain amount of context to already be built up in the interrupted thread. I just had to compensate for that tiny little gap, and I think it's okay now. 01:23:40 lobo_d_b_ [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has joined #lisp 01:23:57 why are you trying to disable interrupts, I mean 01:24:07 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:24:12 or was that without-interrupts block just for the setup 01:24:35 Because there's things that I don't want interrupts interrupting! 01:24:51 Hm, the question now is whether :initial-bindings take effect before the thread is started. 01:25:17 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-sdtookxuyiakbowd] has joined #lisp 01:25:27 I mean, I wonder if interrupt-thread can interrupt a thread before the :initial-bindings have taken effect. :) 01:27:14 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:31:33 -!- lobo_d_b_ [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 01:31:46 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has joined #lisp 01:31:46 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has quit [Changing host] 01:31:46 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 01:32:17 Well, without-interrupt only defer interrupts until after its body. 01:32:46 The only thread that cannot be interrupted is the thread that doesn't run. 01:33:01 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.241.184] has joined #lisp 01:34:05 -!- mirTapir [vutral@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has quit [Changing host] 01:34:05 mirTapir [vutral@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:35:41 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:36:51 oh crap, that's right. Thank you for reminding me. I need to compensate for interrupts right after a thread finishes. :) 01:37:24 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:42:53 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.160.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:48:08 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: guyal] 01:54:58 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 01:58:40 He. I'm at my first steps playing with packages in lisp and I'm having a small difficulty which I cannot seem to be able to resolve, if anyone can help: I defined an asdf system (solver.asd) which depends on the iteration facility package "iterate" and has two components/packages: polynomial and heuristic. From polynomial, I can use the iterate package without any problems while in heuristic, most iteration keywords (for in etc.) are 01:58:40 raising warning as being undefined variables. I've pasted the packages and system definitions here: http://pastebin.com/J6rmEEas . If anyone cares showing me the cause of this problem, I'd gladly appreciate! 01:59:48 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.231.196] has quit [Quit: timepilot] 02:00:32 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176313909.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:00:39 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:15 Strav`: It might help to know that packages and systems are two completely different things. Systems are groups of source files to compile/load. Packages are simply namespaces for symbols. They have little to do with source files. 02:02:01 Strav`: So in order to use symbols from iterate without prefixing them with iter:, you need to (:use :iterate) in the appropriate defpackage. 02:02:04 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-136-215.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:02:29 Strav`: you may want to make that (:use :cl :iterate) in the defpackage for both :heuristic and :polynomial. 02:02:49 sykopomp: I know that difference, yet I was wondering why then asdf specify a :depends-on clause (shouldn't that be resolved from the :use clause in the defpackage?) 02:03:05 Strav`: asdf doesn't do that. 02:03:21 it just figures out which asdf systems to load into Lisp, not what symbols will be available where. 02:03:34 in fact, it would be a very bad idea to have ASDF do that :) 02:03:38 hugod [~user@76.65.142.49] has joined #lisp 02:04:08 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:04:11 pnq [~nick@AC816B0A.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:04:16 sykopomp: ok. I was also wondering: since heuristic uses polynomial and since both need iterate, would there be problems with having :use iterate in both packages? 02:04:45 Strav`: not at all. 02:04:57 lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:18 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176313909.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:05:30 good. I'll give this a try then (although I'm pretty sure this is the way I first done it, so I must had another problem then) 02:05:36 Also, I mentioned (:use :cl) because if you don't include that in your defpackage, you're not even going to import standard CL symbols. You'll have to (cl:defun add (a b) (cl:+ a b)) and such :) 02:05:38 (big thanks btw!) 02:05:52 no problem! :) 02:06:14 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLink@1.125.104.82] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:50 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:10:44 DataLinkDroid [~DataLink@1.125.104.82] has joined #lisp 02:13:31 sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 02:19:29 hello. what is the name of that library that has "raw" string literals syntax, where \ was just a normal character. @"\d\s" => "\\d\\s" 02:20:35 http://weitz.de/cl-interpol/ this one? 02:20:41 yeah thanks 02:22:14 out of curiosity how could I use @".." instead of #?r".." ? 02:22:37 -!- Strav` [~user@dsl-66-36-135-200.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:24:22 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_set__1.htm 02:26:38 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:27:49 springz [~springz@118-163-74-175.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:53 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:35:16 -!- beslayed [~user@76.237.226.192] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:23 beslayed [~user@adsl-76-237-226-192.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:48 -!- hypercube32 [~hypercube@50-89-109-90.res.bhn.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:37:40 -!- lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:39:09 how come i am getting a bunch of warnings if i manually compile a file in SLIME, but not a single one if I quickload my system? 02:41:48 (i would like to get warnings in both cases) 02:43:41 lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:56 quicklisp hides warnings. 02:44:32 Use (asdf:load-system 'system-name), or ,load-system in SLIME. 02:44:47 ok thanks 02:44:49 it might be binding *compile-verbose* and/or reading the output stream(s) 02:46:32 quicklisp hides warnings by design, 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[~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:03:38 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-169-16-50.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:04:05 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 05:05:32 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.137.254] has joined #lisp 05:06:37 stumbles [~stumbles@2001:44b8:4171:3a00:226:5eff:feef:4700] has joined #lisp 05:08:31 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 05:12:01 SrPxq [b12890dc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.40.144.220] has joined #lisp 05:13:31 So you mean lisp is definitely the language where one can be the most productive of all? 05:14:32 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 05:15:40 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:16:04 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:21:43 benny [~benny@i577A1EB1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:22:00 kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.186] has joined #lisp 05:22:01 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.186] has quit [Changing host] 05:22:01 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:25:01 SrPxq: common lisp is the language that i enjoy using most. 05:25:11 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 05:25:17 srpxq: Impossible to determine. 05:25:54 rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-169-16-50.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:25:59 SrPxq: i think all claims that lisp is so much more productive than blub are just lies 05:26:08 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-236-213.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:26:10 But unlikely to be true -- domain specific languages are probably the most productive, providing they are selected well and you've paid the learning cost already. 05:26:55 SrPxq: (lies of people who like lisp hard enough to be willing to lie to justify using it) 05:27:09 Understanding the psychology of human valuation is important here. 05:27:35 The greater an investment someone has made in something, the greater evaluation they are inclined to make of it. 05:27:47 very true 05:28:28 Or, in other words, "the harder something is to do, the better the result had better be". 05:28:38 -!- kami``` [~user@p57A2B21D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:29:01 I suggest learning lisp and using it appropriately, but avoiding the magical claims. 05:30:03 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.208.169] has joined #lisp 05:31:05 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:31:23 SrPxq: yes, check http://cliki.net/Performance 05:33:00 The big problem of those studies is selection bias. 05:33:05 SrPxq: the problem with your question is not that anwerers will lie, it's that you're using undefined words, such as "productive". 05:34:16 If you were to compare slings, bows and rifles for accuracy, I suspect that similar studies would find that slings are the most productive weapon. 05:34:38 Zhivago: this is saying that lisp is definitely the language where one can be the most productive at all, because lisp select people who are smart and productive and beautiful and who have beautiful babies. 05:34:56 Zhivago: indeed, with the best ROI. 05:35:08 No. It's because the sample populations are biased. 05:35:20 jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has joined #lisp 05:35:33 The skilled slinger would probably be more productive with a rifle, had they studied that as hard. 05:35:40 Zhivago: not the tests that are done with students and several different languages. 05:35:59 Yeah, but just to be able to complete the task involves a selection bias. 05:36:57 Yeah, take a random selection of the general population and test them for lisp vs. C++. Right. That will be significant and meaningful. 05:37:05 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@pool-100-40-135-200.pghkny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 05:37:19 The main advantage of the rifle over the sling is that it requires far less skill. 05:37:37 Which means that the average rifle user can be expected to be less skillfull. 05:37:54 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has joined #lisp 05:38:04 Sorry, average competent rifle user. 05:39:35 Zhivago: I'd say it's main advantages are it's range and penetration power 05:39:43 *its 05:40:55 -!- Framedragger [~k@unaffiliated/framedragger] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:41:34 and while a rifle may need less skill, it's also harder to maintain, may jam, its ammunitions are far more expensive, it's heavier and more cumbersome 05:42:22 galdor: Those are minor compared to the skill cost. 05:42:33 abeaumont [~Alfredo@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 05:43:35 galdor: One reason that the crossbow was so popular was that it required far less training than the longbow. 05:44:41 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-148-210.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:52 You can put a rifle in a farmer's hand and after a few weeks, send him out to shoot at people. 05:45:13 An english archer was trained from childhood. 05:45:31 crossbows grew in popularity because you can use them to shot down a guy with a breast plate at a short range 05:46:15 No. You could do the same with a bow. 05:46:25 not at a short range 05:46:29 gko [~user@220.228.255.202] has joined #lisp 05:46:35 a crossbow has a higher penetrating power at short range 05:46:53 That requires a remarkably ... interesting grasp of physics. 05:47:29 a long bow may get the same penetrating power when shot with a bell trajectory 05:47:54 The air resistance increasing the velocity, doubtless ... 05:53:43 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:54:40 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:05:00 Zhivago: I'd be definitely interested about more information, but afaik, an arrow shot from a higher position (rampart, hill), will have higher speed when it reaches it target, thanks to gravity 06:05:31 there isn't lot of historical information about it, if you have any source don't hesitate to share them, I enjoy the subject :) 06:06:02 What does that have to do with "a bell trajectory"? 06:07:05 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 06:07:49 sorry if it's not the right word (french here), I'm refering to the trajectory used by arrows shot from longbows, typically at azincourt 06:08:14 parabola may be a better word 06:08:49 A parabola has nothing to do with being fired from a higher position. 06:10:27 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:48 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-96.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:21:56 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.137.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:22:54 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.16.131] has joined #lisp 06:28:40 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:16 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:29:16 -!- dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 06:29:46 dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has joined #lisp 06:32:22 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-244-241.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:32:30 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 06:33:18 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA05CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 06:35:18 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:35:42 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-244-241.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:38:20 yakov [~yakov@128-72-128-232.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:40:08 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:40:43 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.16.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:41:52 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:43:04 -!- yakov [~yakov@128-72-128-232.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:44:35 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:46:15 Hey guys, thanks for all the good answers, Zhivago , pjb and H4ns . I've seen the first study and am still seeing the others, but as it comes from a lisp site, I guess it's suposed to select studies where lisp won 06:46:42 How can I search for studies like those but unbiased? 06:46:42 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 06:46:45 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 06:48:19 There are no unbiased studies. 06:48:26 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 06:48:34 the best would be self-experimentation with a project of yours 06:51:02 Although an interesting study would be to take lisp programmers and have them compare with C programmers in C. 06:51:08 s/compare/compete/ 06:53:52 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:36 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:54:36 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:54:36 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:54:54 if your project can benefit from interactive and incremental development, and possibly from custom templates/languages, lisp provides interesting facilities to take advantage of 06:55:43 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA05CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:56:29 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-96.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:00:03 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.208.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:00:04 SrPxq: also imo it has many advantages which interpreters provide, and there also are good compilers that exist for lisp, and possibility to later profile and as needed give hints to the compiler to generate more specialized code 07:00:10 I'm not sure 07:00:34 (about unbiased studies) 07:00:48 im reading one wich seems very umbiased 07:01:02 hmm I'm not sure if 100% unbiased studies are possible 07:01:31 the human mind itself works with symbols and references, and most scientific studies are industry financed 07:01:52 phadthai: ive been programming in some languages for some time now and I see many flaws in them which if removed could make my life a lot easier, this is why im always searching other languages 07:02:05 phadthai: no, of course 07:02:10 not 100% unbiased 07:02:14 SrPxq: ok... they all have flaws including Common Lisp :) 07:02:21 yea, I know. 07:02:31 -!- stumbles [~stumbles@2001:44b8:4171:3a00:226:5eff:feef:4700] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:02:31 are we having a debate about whether SrPxq should learn lisp? 07:02:36 yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-212.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 07:02:40 s/debate/discussion/ 07:03:17 but one of these flaws could be adressed by having a language that is easily modifiable and that has a small, clever syntax, so you can easily use programming to fastly setup an ideal environment for your next programming task 07:03:35 so after some research I fall here 07:03:52 no, not exactly, Quadrescence , sorry. 07:03:58 just wondering 07:04:11 I'm just pointing what I learnd 07:05:16 I'm already learning it by asking stuff about it (: 07:05:16 okay, that's better than "should i use lisp guys???" 07:06:02 this is clearly not the point here, you should read to get into the topic 07:06:05 srpxq: What flaw would that address? 07:06:06 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has joined #lisp 07:07:09 Anything involving a phrase like "set up an ideal ..." is problematic. 07:08:27 Zhivago: the fact you are limited to your own language's pre-defined stuff. for example, suppose you have to program something and you realize you are writing 'for (var i=0; i So, no ability to write procedures or functions, then? 07:08:55 kenanb [kenanb@188.38.117.119] has joined #lisp 07:09:13 I think that this all comes down to an MDL issue. 07:09:17 so you write a function each(arr,func) to be a little more productive. 07:10:05 then, you realize you are STILL writting code like this: var result = []; foreach(arr,function(child){ result.append(child.child); }); return result 07:10:15 In less flexible languages you have a more consistent encoding mechanism, which reduces the cognitive cost of writing in that language. 07:10:48 In more flexible languages, you have a less consistent encoding mechanism, which reduces the cognitive cost of writing that program. 07:10:53 then you realize you are editing a piece of code where pretty much every function call to an instance is inside an iterating function or loop. 07:11:06 so you decide to make mapping by default on that space, by changing the language itself 07:11:08 -!- yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-212.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:11:15 so, your function now is : f -> child child 07:11:21 Just as for a compression mechanism with a universal dictionary vs. a file-specific dictionary. 07:11:31 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:11:41 from that would be the composition of child and child mapped to the first argument of the function 07:12:14 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:12:25 as your entire source is pretty much this pattern, you reduced the source to like 30% of its original shape, and it's way cleaner now. by just calling a small language modification on the begining 07:12:36 this is what I'm looking for 07:12:39 sorry for saying too much 07:12:51 whats MDL? 07:12:58 Minimum description length. 07:13:24 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.135.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 07:13:26 hm 07:13:30 yes? 07:13:53 Yes. 07:14:10 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-64-234.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:14:13 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-64-234.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:14:14 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:14:21 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 07:15:36 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.241.184] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 07:16:22 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] 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Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-33-125.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:00 SrPxq: lisp is exactly what you need, with its first-class functions (and then the possibility to write higher order functiosn) and with its macros (to abstract syntactic boilerplate). 08:13:27 SrPxq: Be sure to peruse http://cliki.net for further information. 08:14:28 sure, thanks 08:16:14 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@FLH9Aab022.nra.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:23:05 DDR_ [~chatzilla@d66-183-121-180.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:38 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-108.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:25:45 -!- DDR_ is now known as DDR 08:26:08 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@automayer.is.ew.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:28:04 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@175.242.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 08:29:23 mishoo [~mishoo@automayer.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 08:34:15 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has 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13:42:50 asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has joined #lisp 13:45:13 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:53 asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has joined #lisp 13:49:00 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:50:34 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 13:51:21 -!- zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-bmycotkkimprwmqk] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 13:51:41 zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-wdeagdhucjesjzbb] has joined #lisp 13:51:59 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:57:05 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:01:55 -!- zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-wdeagdhucjesjzbb] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:02:07 -!- ignas__ is now known as ignas 14:03:00 zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-slxoshbkqebgjahy] has joined #lisp 14:04:23 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 14:09:22 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.137.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:07 -!- harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:12:42 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:12:44 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-181-123.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:13:03 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@175.242.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 14:14:45 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-169-16-50.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:15:43 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:16:39 faheem: It took me ages to get a chance to dig up your bug report. It seems like you've verified it under a couple kernel versions, 32-bit Lignux. I've got a side-project to install FreeBSD on 32-bit hardware soon and I'll give it a try there to see if that makes any difference. 14:17:07 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 14:19:59 asmer [~asmer@129-175-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:09 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-250-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:24:41 (morning 'lisp) 14:24:59 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:26:52 (hello () suckers!) 14:26:56 lol 14:28:58 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-17-173.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:30:40 asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has joined #lisp 14:31:29 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:40 asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has joined #lisp 14:36:11 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:13 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-181-123.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:36:24 asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has joined #lisp 14:37:16 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:23 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:37:28 asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has joined #lisp 14:37:50 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has joined #lisp 14:38:53 Greetings! 14:38:53 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:07 asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has joined #lisp 14:39:36 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:09 asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has joined #lisp 14:41:39 -!- asmer [~asmer@129-175-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: ] 14:42:53 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:06 asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has joined #lisp 14:43:20 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:21 LiamH 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248 seconds] 17:03:15 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 17:04:00 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has joined #lisp 17:04:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:08:27 sickfault [~heffaklum@eduroam16-200.hh.se] has joined #lisp 17:08:31 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:08:43 what is hunchentoot? 17:09:03 why would anyone use LISP when you have JAVA and awesome design patterns? 17:10:17 *shrug* 17:10:19 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-67-159.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:10:31 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 17:11:03 why is LISP not used more? 17:11:29 It isn't? 17:11:32 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5089C3D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:34 (defun f (x) (* x x)) 17:11:38 could always be used more 17:11:41 because it has backwards notation 17:11:53 beatings will continue until usage increases 17:12:04 haskell > lisp 17:12:15 Oh dear 17:12:28 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-yrqmynurvkqanvip] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:13:33 boringtroll :( 17:13:48 i would call that only partially backwards 17:13:50 lol 17:14:08 it's not that much backwards tho really! 17:16:15 Paul Graham rewrote all his code in Haskell. He now admits LISP isn't as good as Haskell. 17:16:33 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: cya] 17:16:37 it seems he is on a jump ! 17:16:46 sickfault: You need help in rewriting your's program into Haskell? 17:16:47 first arc now haskell ? 17:16:54 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o fe[nl]ix 17:16:58 wth 17:17:00 -!- sickfault [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has been kicked from #lisp by fe[nl]ix (sickfault) 17:17:07 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o fe[nl]ix 17:17:08 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:17:24 And getting back to the boring work 17:17:32 and it's not even september 17:18:48 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 17:22:17 cstacy [~cstacy@ip68-98-131-250.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:34 I have a question about reader syntax 17:23:08 I want to make ":" not be a package designator. Just a regular constituent. 17:23:24 This does not work: (set-syntax-from-char #\: #\a) 17:23:59 anyone know the trick? 17:24:50 I believe the #\: thing is part of the reader algorithm. may not be possible to override with standard means 17:25:28 I think you might be right. I have a vague recollection of this issue from many years ago. 17:25:36 But I was hoping not :) 17:26:45 neo` [~user@117.219.6.204] has joined #lisp 17:29:11 you could use the reader from (what's the cl-in-cl implementation's name?) 17:29:20 (format t "hi") gives hiNIL. Why isn't there a newline between hi and NIL? 17:29:40 neo`: "hi" is the output, NIL is the return value 17:29:50 to output a newline, use ~% or ~& 17:30:05 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 17:31:46 cstacy: ah yes, SICL, I think 17:31:51 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:31:59 I'm using sbcl 17:32:04 I believe the reader was one of the more fleshed-out parts 17:32:18 sickfault [~heffaklum@eduroam16-200.hh.se] has joined #lisp 17:32:23 anyone use Arc? 17:32:37 no, nobody uses Arc 17:32:39 sickfault: No. LOL 17:32:45 just kidding! I dunno 17:32:48 was that language a joke? 17:33:11 sickfault: it was, and you don't get it. 17:33:26 cstacy: anyway - you should be able to use SICL from SBCL (: 17:33:36 I believe it exposes hooks into the reader 17:33:57 Seriously, I don't think it achieved much adoption. I have never heard of anyone using it at all. But maybe someone somewhere is, and maybe there is some merit to it. I would Google for evidence of usage. 17:34:11 what do you mean i dont get it? 17:34:17 I think he got it :) 17:38:17 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:07 -!- cstacy [~cstacy@ip68-98-131-250.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: cstacy] 17:40:14 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:38 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:42:58 -!- sickfault [~heffaklum@eduroam16-200.hh.se] has left #lisp 17:47:54 brown [user@nat/google/x-chzknesbllupgfiu] has joined #lisp 17:48:17 -!- brown is now known as Guest81674 17:48:28 -!- Cu3ert [~Cu3ert@dsl-olubrasgw2-ff39fb00-222.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Cu3ert] 17:50:44 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.185] has joined #lisp 17:51:09 xpololz [~xpo@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:51:42 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-67-159.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 17:52:26 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-67-159.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 17:52:33 yates [~user@nc-71-48-9-61.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:57 i'm trying to run a commonqt tutorial and keep getting "WARNING: QCoreApplication is already instantiated." 17:53:09 -!- mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:12 under sbcl/slime/emacs 17:53:43 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128064071.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:53:58 the one here: http://www.lichteblau.com/git/?p=commonqt.git;a=blob;f=tutorial/conv.lisp;hb=master 17:54:12 mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:54:12 sickfault [~heffaklum@eduroam16-200.hh.se] has joined #lisp 17:54:25 -!- sickfault [~heffaklum@eduroam16-200.hh.se] has left #lisp 17:54:28 it looks like it's loaded correctly, but that a previous commonqt tutorial instance didn't get terminated properly 17:55:01 how do i delete the existing QCoreApplication instance? 17:55:43 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:57:04 -!- neo` [~user@117.219.6.204] has quit [Quit: reading PCL] 17:57:06 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 17:57:17 -!- xpololz [~xpo@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 17:57:30 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-52-216-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:23 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:59:18 yates: restart sbcl 17:59:19 Heh, that troll was useful. Inspired me to go to Paul Graham's site, where I read his most recent essay, which was enjoyable. 17:59:58 fe[nl]ix: that's the only way?!? 18:00:25 Cu3ert [~Cu3ert@dsl-olubrasgw2-ff39fb00-222.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:00:35 do you mean to quit sbcl and then restart, or is there a way to restart without exiting? 18:01:12 nm 18:04:41 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has joined #lisp 18:07:05 -!- lsenta [u6454@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ilnerifkucasdaov] has quit [] 18:07:57 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 18:08:50 -!- eni is now known as albacker 18:08:54 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:08:55 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 18:09:21 ok, i've restarted and now i'm getting thisend of file on # [Condition of type END-OF-FILE] 18:09:49 after loading qt and then when loading the tutorial 18:09:55 -!- albacker is now known as eni 18:11:06 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 18:12:48 ah! 18:12:49 nm. 18:12:58 *yates* is stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid. 18:13:38 Is there's any automatic build system for lisp? 18:13:51 ASDF 18:13:56 quicklisp 18:14:25 amazing what one little "'" can do at the end of a form... 18:14:37 what havoc it can wreak... 18:14:54 Hm, and how can I use asdf for autobuilding? 18:15:30 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Quit: brb] 18:15:37 Just add some cron tasks and shell scripts? 18:15:47 hitecnologys: write a .asd and then quickload it. 18:15:50 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-124-178.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:51 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-124-178.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:15:51 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 18:16:32 ianmcorvidae: ahoy :) 18:17:14 OK, let's try it. 18:17:51 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 18:20:08 If someone interested, I want automatically builds for every my commit to remote git repository. 18:20:36 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-249.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:18 -!- Cu3ert [~Cu3ert@dsl-olubrasgw2-ff39fb00-222.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Cu3ert] 18:22:44 -!- eni [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:22:58 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:23:26 (Oh, I remembered, some people call it nightly builds) 18:24:05 merge-pathnames (make-pathname ".beirc" :type "lisp") who the fuck does not get that right ! ? 18:24:22 means .beirc.lisp 18:24:35 hitecnologys: iirc Zach (quicklisp's developer) made publicly available the tools he use. 18:24:37 homie: haha, ouch. it could be anything 18:24:57 instead someone puts make-pathname :name ".beirc.lisp" always..... 18:25:22 should be make-pathname :name ".beirc" :type "lisp" tho 18:25:50 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-249.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:03 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-249.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:25 homie: is that in beirc source code? which version is there, which should be there? 18:27:50 it's in variables.lisp 18:27:52 in beirc code 18:28:04 and it's invalid 18:28:18 and there are more things which are in the sources which are invalid.... 18:28:22 homie: you keep saying "it" 18:28:27 and they never get fixed for some reason i don't get! 18:28:39 homie: because somebody doesn't submit a patch maybe? 18:28:46 i don't know 18:28:57 I'm pretty sure the old version was valid in some ages-ago release of SBCL 18:29:02 danishman [~kvirc@62.243.156.218] has joined #lisp 18:29:09 there multiple #+cmu things which mention on the next line sbcl specific stuff..... 18:29:12 if it has changed its mind in the meantime, pls take over & fix 18:29:14 and those don't get fixed tooo 18:29:23 well, nobody used beirc 18:29:24 in mcclim for example 18:29:28 (apart from you, it seems) 18:29:54 and there are timeout stuff .... for blah-timout packages where things fail because of simple failures like that 18:30:02 it's just they never get fixed! 18:30:28 it's my 10'th maybe download of sources with quicklisp of libraries..... 18:30:35 and everytime the same behaviour! 18:30:53 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:31:00 i fix them locally and on next update all is lost 18:31:32 and i don't have write access to the sources.... 18:31:40 homie: then put those changes under local-projects directory and off you go 18:31:52 that can be arranged - do you have a common-lisp.net username? 18:31:52 oh man 18:32:01 nope not yet 18:32:04 but i'll get one 18:32:08 soon! 18:34:04 i mean it's not that i changed faces to my likings or so in source code, it's stuff which concerns say cmucl users..... 18:34:14 and other minor things..... 18:34:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-29.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:34:37 pnq [~nick@AC8CFC74.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:34:42 at least to some degree the way that the packages work as intended.... 18:34:54 *should be* 18:36:53 sure - let me know when you have one, I'll make sure you get access to beirc (: 18:37:02 ok 18:37:17 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:24 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:48 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:41:21 hrm .. if i'm doing timeouts, say for an animation loop or similar, trivial-timeout recommended? it seems to cons a bit, but there doesn't seem to be noticeable overhead not otherwise introduced 18:42:06 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:42:13 jarubyh [~jarubyh@cpe-72-182-64-111.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:42:44 -!- jarubyh [~jarubyh@cpe-72-182-64-111.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:42:45 also needs to work wtih bt:acquire-lock etc, though this works in sbcl 18:43:41 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:43:54 urandom__ [~user@ip-37-24-112-20.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 18:45:09 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:46:09 Hmm "CFFI" is at release 0.1 http://morepypy.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/release-01-of-cffi.html 18:46:28 Overloaded abbreviation. 18:46:30 *drewc* is curious at how with-timeout conses, so is ql'ing it 18:47:14 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-29.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:47:15 LiamH: should we send a cease&desist ? 18:47:48 heh 18:48:19 I had to do a double take though. I thought maybe it was a really old blog post. 18:49:16 i think that war was lost with "python" 18:49:27 homie: (make-pathname ".beirc" :type "lisp") is implementation dependent. Instead use: (make-pathname :host "RC" :name "BEIRC" :type "LISP" :case :common) If you want you may also (setf (logical-pathname-translations "RC") `(("RC:*.*" ,(merge-pathnames ".*.*" (user-homedir-pathname))) ("RC:*" ,(merge-pathnames ".*" (user-homedir-pathname))))) 18:50:10 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:57 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.16.131] has joined #lisp 18:52:16 -!- sanjoyd [sanjoyd@nat/google/x-gzqmzwqqehgjuuvh] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:53:12 drewc: not sure at a glance, the way i'm testing may be flawed .. testing tiny timeouts against (sleep 1) in a loop, vs the same loop with just (sleep *tiny-timeout*). nor do the conditions appear to cons. 18:53:13 -!- emacs-dwim [~user@rrcs-24-103-166-106.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:56:41 -!- SrPx [b12890dc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.40.144.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:56:43 jarubyh [~jarubyh@cpe-72-182-64-111.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:56:49 ccl and/or lispworks does have M-V-L in it ... that is at least one cons cell... and could be up to 536870911 conses in my local sbcl if sbcl uses that, which it doesn't. 18:56:53 actually maybe it is the conditions 18:57:10 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:57:22 m-v-l really? wow 18:57:35 doh heh 18:58:23 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:58:28 SrPx [b12890dc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.40.144.220] has joined #lisp 18:59:41 the ccl version looks like it could easily be a multiple-value-prog1 18:59:51 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-4.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:00:11 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-180-16.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:01:00 dunno, seems ok, i can wrap it and hand-write more optimal timeouts for known implementations i guess 19:02:15 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 19:05:12 -!- ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05:59 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:07:20 -!- jarubyh [~jarubyh@cpe-72-182-64-111.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:08:59 lemonodor [~lemonodor@adsl-76-214-13-252.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:03 -!- Qualia [~qualia@123.50.149.220] has quit [Quit: Qualia] 19:17:06 -!- SrPx [b12890dc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.40.144.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:17:06 -!- jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:17:58 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-46-112.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:19:55 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 19:22:23 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-180-16.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:25:25 hi drewc 19:27:46 drewc: welcome back :) 19:29:33 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:31:58 nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-219-156-243.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 19:34:14 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:35:02 serkio [~sgarcia@mail.ageophysics.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:49 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has joined #lisp 19:37:49 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has quit [Client Quit] 19:38:05 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has joined #lisp 19:39:00 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 19:39:19 drewc: nice to see you on here #lisp 19:40:34 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:57 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:41:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-4.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:31 emacs-dwim [~user@rrcs-72-43-236-2.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:44:19 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:45:07 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:14 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-219-156-243.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:46:06 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has joined #lisp 19:47:36 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:47:50 francogrex [~user@109.130.32.139] has joined #lisp 19:48:18 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.137.254] has joined #lisp 19:48:49 felideon: nice to be back :) 19:49:34 mon_key: and yeah, what I said to felideon with "here" instead of "back" 19:50:13 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@adsl-76-214-13-252.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 19:51:23 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.170.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:53:08 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8CFC74.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:53:47 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:53:53 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-52-216-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 19:54:12 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aear96.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:57:07 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:30 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-121-180.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:32 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B0AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:02:06 Oh, guys, I need some help again. I have list like this: (:start 1 2 3 :end :start 1 2 3 :end). How can I separate contents between :start and :end for each pair? I have no idea how to do this. =( 20:03:46 The question is, why do you even have a list like that? :) 20:04:06 I'm writing a parser for language. 20:04:36 All code is separated in "blocks": [12345]. 20:05:01 But there may be more that one block on the same line. 20:05:24 This is the problem which I'm trying to solve. 20:05:56 I like smug for parsing. :) 20:06:09 yay! 20:06:18 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5089C3D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:07:17 <_death> how about instead of :start and :end, you use nested structure? ((1 2 3) (1 2 3)) 20:08:05 <_8david> The new certificate came as Microsoft revamped Windows Update to prevent such attacks from working in the future. But because the credential isn't used to encrypt or authenticate an actual website, the grade of "F" returned by SSL Labs probably sounds more serious than it really is. At least that's what Ivan Ristic, Qualys's director of engineering and an architect of the automated analysis tool, believes. 20:08:11 But how can I get nested structure from string? 20:08:16 _death: ...isn't that essentially the same thing, text-wise? :) 20:08:16 <_8david> "The SSL Labs report card alone is not enough because the update server does not run a website," he wrote in an e-mail to Ars Technica. "It may be insecure, but the report card is not conclusive. You'd need to perform an analysis of the communication and maybe attack it in order to determine if it has weaknesses." 20:08:34 <_death> sykopomp, text-wise? this isn't #perl :) 20:09:18 -!- _death is now known as adeht 20:09:47 _8david: wat was that about ? 20:10:03 hitecnologys: you could make structs and not that list. you could use an actual parser to parse the list, if necessary. 20:10:32 hitecnologys: why not parse the content of each block into a class with start/end accessors? 20:10:49 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-zruuoddodeglajgh] has joined #lisp 20:10:52 there are a number of real parsers/tokenizers on cliki 20:10:54 hi Fare 20:11:04 parsers will be OK, but I don't want to have any dependencies 20:11:28 everything has dependencies 20:11:34 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-181-123.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:11:39 The goal of this project is to write a parser. 20:11:49 ... 20:12:07 So using a parser will be cheating. =| 20:12:19 hitecnologys: (split-sequence:split-sequence :end list) 20:12:26 ok, to be pedantic, there are a number of _parser generators_ on cliki. if you are writing a parser generator, too, and you're asking how to parse that, you should probably rethink the question 20:13:15 Hm, you made my braid explode. =( 20:14:36 Parser generators? 20:14:51 is this homework for compiler class or something? 20:14:58 No. 20:15:01 be honest 20:15:03 My own idea. 20:15:03 :p 20:15:05 hi 20:15:10 hitecnologys: what do the blocks contain/represent 20:15:22 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.32.139] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:31 hello Fare! 20:15:39 hitecnologys: then why are you trying to manually hack out a half-assed parser when there are good/fast LALR/LR(1) generators available ;) 20:16:09 mod_key: Blocks is lightweight analogue for functions. 20:16:21 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:04 oGMo: Yeah, I'm trying to invent the bicycle. =) 20:17:45 hitecnologys: so this "[12345]"is analogous to a function? 20:17:46 more like carving a bicycle out of wax when there are steel shops available 20:17:54 drewc: did you see I did publish lisp-interface-library out of fare-utils? 20:18:00 I didn't call it lil, though 20:20:00 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-180-16.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:21:03 mod_key: Yes, but [12345] is example. This is the program which prints numbers from 10 to 0: [(10)] [%$2$3] [-$1] [(0)!]. 20:21:23 % is if. $ is 'go to block'. ! is print. 20:21:34 () means putting value to the stack. 20:21:44 hitecnologys: then pay attention to what oGMo has said and use a canned tool. 20:21:46 - decrement top value from the stack. 20:22:22 mon_key: Hm, okay. Let's try it. 20:22:29 AeroNotix [~xeno@aear96.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:22:33 -!- serkio [~sgarcia@mail.ageophysics.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:23:59 francogrex [~user@109.130.32.139] has joined #lisp 20:24:28 good example of a compiler (toy) in lisp: https://github.com/Reckless/lisp-compiler 20:24:43 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aear96.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:24:51 what's more correct (defpackage #:package or :package ? 20:25:10 AeroNotix [~xeno@aear96.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:25:24 that's a good example? =P 20:25:57 yes I think it's very good 20:26:29 not the word i'd use, heh 20:26:48 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-249.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:57 francogrex: "PACKAGE" ? 20:27:04 Fare: I did not see! exciting.... 20:27:31 francogrex: :package will intern the symbol in yout current package, #:package will explicitely use the keyword package so would be more correct, AFAIUI 20:27:33 mon_key: yes but was wondering about the usefulness of # 20:27:51 Fare: it still says "LIL" in the readme :) 20:28:37 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:30:22 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.250.49] has joined #lisp 20:30:36 francogrex: maybe it helps issues around "modern mode" lisp implementations? 20:31:28 indeed. #:packagename is nice because it doesn't import a symbol into the KEYWORD package, and it's modern-mode friendly. 20:32:53 Puzzle solved! http://paste.lisp.org/+2SET 20:33:10 CL-USER> (parse-blocks '(block-start 1 2 3 block-end 1 2 3 block-start 1 2 3 4 block-end)) 20:33:10 ((1 2 3) (1 2 3 4)) 20:33:47 It even ignores data between blocks! 20:33:53 I can write comments! ;) 20:35:00 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:02 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:35:28 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.53] has joined #lisp 20:36:41 ez2712 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[~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:47 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:46:13 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 21:47:28 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:49:37 chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:49:41 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.46.2] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 21:50:19 -!- chu_ is now known as chu 21:54:05 nauar [~Grunt@80.31.112.137] has joined #lisp 21:56:01 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:06 odd, "queues" appears to be in the repository, but quicklisp won't quickload it? 21:57:43 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 21:57:44 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:57:45 oh, hm, it will find the individual packages ("queue.simple-queue") but trying to quickload that looks for "queues", which it doesn't like 21:58:22 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:58:38 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-37.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 21:58:38 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-37.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 21:58:38 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 22:00:30 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:01:54 Yes, you must (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum) to get the com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.queue package. 22:02:05 not that one, queues 22:02:37 (ql:system-apropos "queues") 22:02:48 https://github.com/oconnore/queues 22:03:14 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:54 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:14 pnq [~nick@AC8385DC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:05:54 ikki [~ikki@189.196.101.239] has joined #lisp 22:06:08 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:50 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 22:07:07 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 22:07:09 mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 22:07:20 -!- mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:08:06 oGMo: btw, we're intending to merge queues and some more code into cl-containers. 22:09:23 kilon_alios [~kilon@77.49.231.69.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:09:40 -!- nauar [~Grunt@80.31.112.137] has quit [] 22:10:03 Fare: hm. cool. 22:11:17 r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.101.109] has joined #lisp 22:12:27 will watch for the update, should be a trivial change 22:12:40 -!- mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:13:30 Fare: i was recently thinking it'd be interesting to have something similar to that for algorithms as well 22:16:19 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@d149031.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:16:49 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@77.49.231.69.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:55 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@175.242.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:21:19 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:22:48 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 22:23:03 for algorithms? 22:23:54 but yes, if you want to hack standard algorithm-and-datastructure libraries, I propose you join oconnore and I at making cl-containers and lisp-interface-library better. 22:24:18 iocor [~textual@87.194.167.19] has joined #lisp 22:24:22 -!- iocor [~textual@87.194.167.19] has quit [Changing host] 22:24:23 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 22:28:25 Utkarsh_ 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has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:20 hugod [~user@76.65.142.49] has joined #lisp 22:49:56 -!- ez2712 [d52f4724@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.47.71.36] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:52:07 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:52:07 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.178.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:52:07 -!- jaxtr [~vazakl@22.50.5646.static.theplanet.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:52:07 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.211.140.101] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:52:08 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:52:08 -!- yan_ [~yan@srtd.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:52:08 -!- literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:52:15 literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has joined #lisp 22:52:19 Fare: is l-i-l intended to supersede cl-containers? 22:52:20 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.211.140.101] has joined #lisp 22:52:21 z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has joined #lisp 22:52:21 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:52:21 -!- z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:52:21 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 22:52:23 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.178.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 22:52:33 -!- eeepc [~eeepc@bl6-22-183.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:53:16 looks to me more like interface library, not container implementation 22:54:38 p_l: OK, but how does one define an interface for an unspecified datastructure? 22:55:34 jaxtr [~vazakl@22.50.5646.static.theplanet.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:34 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:06 mon_key: is it iterable? Comparable? has "identity" protocol? "mapping" protocol? 22:56:08 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:13 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:57:36 yan_ [~yan@srtd.org] has joined #lisp 22:57:57 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.67.159] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:58:20 eeepc [~eeepc@bl6-22-183.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:58:28 -!- eeepc [~eeepc@bl6-22-183.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:58:46 p_l: OK. So it specifies common actions one might invoke around a datastructure and a common protocol for such invocations. IOW an interface :) Sorry for being obtuse. 22:59:26 well, that's just examples from CLR/JVM/Ruby/etc. 22:59:47 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 23:02:44 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:52 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:07:07 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:12:07 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:16:29 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:20:42 -!- r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.101.109] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]] 23:21:41 SrPx [b12890dc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.40.144.220] has joined #lisp 23:22:27 Okay, the syntax is simple... so learning Lisp is pretty much the proccess of knowing more functions? 23:22:37 Yes. 23:22:40 And macros. 23:22:46 Yes... so, is there a list of them or something? 23:22:49 clhs 23:22:56 lmgt 23:22:57 http://localhost/local/lisp/www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index.htm 23:23:02 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index.htm 23:23:04 o.O 23:23:04 heh 23:23:42 Conveniently cataloged by categories: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/Contents.htm or alphabetically: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/X_Symbol.htm 23:24:00 Thank you! (= 23:24:25 So essentially, *this* is common lisp? Those 900 and so symbols? If I just implemented those symbols in 'pure lisp' then I'll have CL? 23:24:41 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:24:42 haha, it's a small matter of programming! (: 23:24:54 :) 23:25:02 note some of them are "compile" and "defmethod" (: 23:25:07 SrPx: well, there are a few semantic items that are not explicitely embodied in functions. 23:25:46 sorry what? 23:25:56 SrPx: The core of the semantic specification is given by the 25 special operators. 23:25:57 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:26:13 SrPx: The rest of the "language" being defined in macros. 23:26:57 what are those? 23:27:04 SrPx: for example, the meaning of (op arg arg) is implicit: the function EVAL and COMPILE must implement its meaning, which is that of a special operator, a macro expansion or a function call, depending on OP. 23:27:18 SrPx: you could read the spec to find out. 23:27:22 IF is a special operator: it's implemented specially by EVAL or COMPILE. 23:27:29 I could, let me google that 23:27:39 COND is a macro: there's a lisp function that transforms it into a IF expression. 23:27:59 so neither are fundamental, right? 23:28:19 Relatively to the specification, the special operators are fundamental. 23:28:35 But a CL implementation may choose to implement special operators as macros, and macros as special operators. 23:28:44 So what do you mean by "fundamental"? 23:28:46 As fundamental as the rest of Common Lisp, if not more so than some trivial utility functions. 23:29:21 Notably, to implement special operators, you probably write a lisp program (the functions EVAL and COMPILE) that use other lisp functions and macros :-) 23:29:51 But yes, it should be possible to write a whole CL implementation if you start from a program written eg. in C, that implements just EVAL. 23:30:09 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:30:33 that is, just the special operators. 23:30:39 I mean, what would be the minimum to implement lisp itself? In another language, for example? 23:30:44 lambda. 23:31:24 hmm? 23:31:48 well javascript has lambda, so I can easily write a lisp interpreter on it ? 23:31:52 Alternatively, if you're on a von neuman architecture, you could use just substract-and-branch-if-negative-or-zero http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_instruction_set_computer 23:31:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.128.189] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 23:31:56 SrPx: yes. 23:32:02 easily? 23:32:10 that's not "implementing lisp", that's implementing turing-completeness 23:32:14 a much weaker condition 23:32:16 Yes. A lisp interpreter can be written in one page of lisp code. 23:32:29 hmm 23:32:31 So even if you write it in C, which takes 30x the LoC, you can still easily write 30 pages of codes. 23:32:32 but not CL? 23:33:21 Well, a subset of CL is written in 500 lines of C (+ 500 lines of Lisp): http://code.google.com/p/embox/source/browse/trunk/embox/third-party/lisp5000/lisp500.c 23:33:49 Guthur` [~user@212.183.128.232] has joined #lisp 23:33:59 http://joeganley.com/code/jslisp.html (just found this, wow!? is this complete?) 23:34:12 pjb: hmm I see but 23:34:35 SrPx: now CL:EVAL has some complications due to lisp-2, condition system and lexical binding, compared to AIM-8 eval, but it's feasible to write a small enough CL EVAL. 23:35:07 I just don't get the difference. Lisp is the (op arg arg...) and macro evaluating thing. common lisp is "if", "defun", "mapcar" and all other functions that makes this useful. and them all could be implemented in pure lisp 23:35:10 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:13 mon_key, at this time, lisp-interface-library focuses on pure datastructures, cl-containers on stateful ones. 23:35:14 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:35:19 for example, if I implemented lisp, I could just load a page or so and have CL 23:35:21 is this correct? 23:35:28 a page or so of lisp itself* 23:35:36 We'll see if we need interface-passing-style for more advanced stateful datastructures 23:35:43 SrPx: I told you: there are some implicit semantics that need to be implemented to have a Common Lisp. If you just want a lisp or a scheme, it may be simplier. 23:35:52 in which case we could have some cross-over between the two. 23:36:23 Maybe what we need is a CL in Racket. 23:36:37 SrPx: check the chapter 2 and 3 of clhs, and all the sections before the Dictionary sections. 23:37:16 yea but im not exactly getting this part... I'll read the specification maybe it'll englighten things up. 23:37:20 SrPx: that said, once you have a lisp, you can easily implement a CL in it (more easily than in Java or C in any case). 23:37:29 SrPx: it should. 23:37:49 -!- shifty [~user@114-198-36-60.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:44 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8385DC.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:49:39 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:55 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 23:59:31 IPmonger [~ipmonger@50.128.70.201] has joined #lisp