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01:22:38 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-248-158.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:23:38 hey, i have a problem when i try to use quicklisp. 01:24:01 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl22-202-74.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 01:24:35 asdf::*source-registry happens to be a hashtable, but some functions expect it to be a list 01:24:52 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 01:25:43 Well, it's a hashtable. 01:27:07 meh somehow it loads older asdf version 01:27:57 yup it works 01:28:44 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:37:05 -!- ltriant_ is now known as ltriant 01:38:15 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:41:09 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 01:41:18 Guest62668 [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has joined #lisp 01:41:36 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:49:26 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 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[~foo@host233-127-dynamic.55-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 03:34:49 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:57 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:38:37 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@153-119-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:00 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:42:42 -!- xyxu [~Adium@58.41.12.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:42:53 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@153-119-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:43:02 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:43:25 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:45:39 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:14 Has anyone tried to use the CLTL TeX libraries for formatting Lisp code? 03:46:24 besides myself, that is 03:46:33 (in API documentation) 03:47:01 irpanech` [~user@24.68.147.165] has joined #lisp 03:47:26 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0902.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:47:48 -!- irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.165] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:47:58 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1326.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:48:38 -!- Tedl [~tedl@ip-64-134-174-252.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:55:37 Cosman246: no, but sounds interesting 03:56:15 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 03:56:17 I don't know the arcane TeX hackery used in it, so I can't fix the bit rot it's grown 03:56:18 was it used to format the code in CLtL? 03:56:21 Yeah 03:56:28 authored by Steele 03:56:33 Last updated....1993 03:56:41 interesting 03:56:41 and it doesn't compile 03:56:51 i didn't think TeX has changed in that time 03:57:01 bit rot? 03:57:25 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.90.139] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:32 that's my theory 03:57:38 you're getting TeX errors or Lisp errors? 03:57:45 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.179] has joined #lisp 03:57:51 TeX 03:57:57 It doesn't actually contain Lisp 03:58:24 right. 03:58:41 i assume the error descriptions are uninformative to you? 03:59:25 not missing package dependencies or something is it? 03:59:37 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 04:01:19 or maybe i'm confusing it with LaTeX which has packages 04:01:29 i've never used raw TeX unfortunately 04:02:29 Well, it is LaTeX 04:02:34 It works with LaTeX 04:02:38 That's what I'm using 04:02:48 ah. well that makes a difference 04:03:11 LaTeX has changed a fair bit i think since then 04:03:14 so bit rot 04:03:35 hm 04:03:54 could also be using stuff you don't have 04:04:11 Nah 04:04:32 It doesn't have usepackage stuff 04:04:37 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:04:42 fair enough 04:06:02 is it using a standard documentclass? 04:07:50 what error are you getting? 04:08:04 did you check file encoding, CRLF/LF? 04:08:35 Hm. Has anyone played around with optionally-loaded packages where, if a certain system isn't loaded, certain calls to functions in that package are NOOPs? 04:09:34 I figure predefining the package in the 'base' system with empty definitions and then just replacing those definitions when the second system is loaded would work. I just wonder if there's a cleaner way to go about it. 04:10:07 The problem there is figuring out what empty definitions you need without loading the system. 04:11:11 I don't care to automate it that much. The system is fairly small. I only need 8 function definitions to be NOOPs. 04:12:04 -!- lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:12:15 I guess I could also just have a function that users call to actually activate it, too. :) 04:12:26 DataLinkDroid: I know it's not CRLF 04:12:40 -!- saage_ [~saage@200.195.179.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:12:52 errors regarding font slanting of Letter Gothic 04:13:38 -!- rotty [rotty@de.xx.vu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:13:48 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 04:14:25 rotty [rotty@de.xx.vu] has joined #lisp 04:14:40 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:15:08 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 04:15:23 Maybe the solution then is to define a stub package generator with the elements that you know that you need. 04:15:24 missing font? 04:15:33 yfonts.sty perhaps? 04:15:43 yfonts.sty? 04:16:03 have you tried alternative LaTeX engines like XeTeX? 04:16:13 No.... 04:16:33 try googling LaTex and yfonts.sty or Letter Gothic 04:16:40 I'm less and less convinced, these days, that the CL package system is a good idea. 04:17:02 font handling in LaTeX tends to the archane 04:17:08 It's more or less equivalent to having a whole bunch of global variables with implicit name mangling. 04:17:43 The name mangling is fine, but the global variables makes a lot of things like that much harder than necessary. 04:18:48 You'd really need some kind of hook into the interning mechanism to do that properly. 04:19:13 Zhivago: or a module system 04:20:54 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 04:21:31 The problem with module systems is that they destroy identity. 04:22:01 Zhivago: what do you mean? 04:22:16 a::b is a particular symbol which is an identity. 04:22:39 a.b is an expression, whose value depends on the value of a. 04:22:56 right, so unloading a module could have undefined consequences... 04:24:05 It's more than that -- what makes a.b unique? 04:24:46 a::b is a name, but a.b is an expression. 04:24:57 That's the critical distinction here. 04:27:06 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:28:32 Take javascript for example -- you can pass around 'foo_bar' as a symbol (string), but you can't pass around foo.bar -- at best you could pass around foo.bar.bind(foo), but that lacks the property of identity that 'foo_bar' has. 04:28:42 okay, i'm not really following why that's an important distinction per se, but not to worry 04:28:55 Do you understand what a symbol is? 04:29:01 yes 04:29:04 echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 04:29:19 Do you understand why a.b isn't a symbol? 04:29:30 it's a data structure 04:29:38 No. It is an expression. 04:29:44 yes because it isn't a symbol that exists 04:29:59 a symbol is a data structure i meant 04:30:04 No. Because it is an expression that evaluates to a value -- it is not a value itself. 04:30:05 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:30:30 okay i understand that 04:30:42 In the case of a::b you have the name a::b which is a value, and can be referred to independently of any value associated with that name. 04:30:43 symbols are self evaluating 04:31:03 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:31:28 In the case of a.b you cannot -- you can only evaluate it to the value of that expression. 04:31:28 true 04:31:38 yes 04:34:04 moving on a bit, i notice that allegro cl has a module autoload feature for some of its internal modules 04:34:45 modules are autoloaded when certain objects are referenced 04:34:53 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1A16.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:40:04 Any idea? 04:41:51 -!- joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:43:48 Cosman246: www.ctan.org searching for gothic or old german fonts or yfonts? 04:44:13 Cosman246: or maybe a LaTeX channel? 04:44:28 try #latex 04:48:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:49:22 joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has joined #lisp 04:53:05 zbigniew [~zb@ipv6.3e8.org] has joined #lisp 04:53:08 Hello all, I have a simple hello world program I tried to compile via (compile-file "~/tmp/hello.lisp") but am having some issues. I'm using sbcl and when I run the './hello.fasl' I get a bunch of debug error messages 04:53:12 get some sort of READ failure "illegal sharp macro character: #\" 04:53:23 -!- zbigniew [~zb@ipv6.3e8.org] has quit [Client Quit] 04:53:44 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 04:53:59 asking just incase its a simple mistake 04:54:07 wormwood: compile-file doesn't produce an executable file 04:54:11 can't find much on google 04:54:13 wormwood: (Unless things have changed), I don't think fasl executes. 04:54:25 deego: SBCL's fasl have shebangs 04:54:26 ouch, got it 04:54:30 yeah 04:54:31 a fasl is like a .obj file 04:55:03 the shebangs were decieving me :) 04:55:06 thanks 04:57:33 Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 04:57:47 actually, SBCL fasls also execute ;) 04:58:01 however, I seem to have hit a bug in --script 04:58:38 the "illegal sharp macro character: #\" ? 04:59:00 yeah. I suspect loading from fasls stopped working and it tried to read it as source 05:00:40 Does it know that you are trying to load a fasl? 05:01:15 Zhivago: from what I see, it doesn't. My surprise is caused by the fact that it checked the format previously 05:01:43 There was something about extensions, iirc. 05:03:56 needing to use binfmt_misc to register an extension you mean? 05:04:19 It would be the lisp system that would need to know what extension indicates a fasl. 05:05:51 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-194-178.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 05:10:59 -!- Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has left #lisp 05:12:38 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:14:46 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 05:21:24 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:21:53 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 05:22:15 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:22:19 Cosman246: clm.tex is LaTex2.09, which is old. The current LaTeX is LaTeX2e. You're better off creating your own skeleton LateX file using the TeX macros in the ways demonstrated. 05:23:02 -!- echo-are` is now known as echo-area 05:23:12 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:26:40 -!- albertlee [~albertlee@59.108.40.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:27:00 albertlee [~albertlee@59.108.40.194] has joined #lisp 05:28:38 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:31:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:34:36 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-javntkntgpvgbxit] has joined #lisp 05:37:10 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.110.142] has joined #lisp 05:37:32 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:37:49 -!- jakobus [~jakobus__@ool-45709909.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:38:38 -!- irpanech` [~user@24.68.147.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:41:39 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129208046.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 05:41:40 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:42:13 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 05:42:44 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@101.169.153.95] has quit [Quit: Bye] 05:43:05 idunnoplz [~fold@99-181-48-105.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:50 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:14 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:45:33 does slime mode have autocomplete, i cant remember 05:45:46 *quazimodo* thinks so 05:46:33 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:47:04 C-c TAB ? 05:48:43 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 05:50:05 -!- idunnoplz [~fold@99-181-48-105.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:50:39 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:52:41 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 05:53:06 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:55:17 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:59:01 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-86-163.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:59:16 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 06:01:41 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:03:43 quazimodo: it has more than one, even. I recomment http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Fuzzy-Completion.html#Fuzzy-Completion 06:04:02 Vivitron: THAAATS right 06:04:09 *quazimodo* is satisfied :D 06:04:11 thansk mang 06:04:26 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 06:04:38 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:04:38 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-108-80-231-20.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:06:25 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:06:43 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 06:07:13 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-145-241.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:07:56 DataLinkDroid [~David@101.169.240.43] has joined #lisp 06:11:07 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:27 prabuinet [~prabuinet@117.216.96.203] has joined #lisp 06:21:05 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-xzxqapjdcbeljadb] has joined #lisp 06:21:05 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-xzxqapjdcbeljadb] has quit [Changing host] 06:21:06 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:21:10 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:21:19 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 06:24:03 jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has joined #lisp 06:26:51 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:03 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:28:08 -!- ceti331_ [~walterlyn@host109-155-129-71.range109-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:28:39 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 06:29:22 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-244-241.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:30:47 ceti331_ [~walterlyn@host109-155-129-71.range109-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 06:33:00 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 06:34:10 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.110.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:34:14 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has joined #lisp 06:36:04 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:41:38 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:51 kilon [~kilon@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 06:42:29 -!- harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:43:37 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 06:43:46 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:48:43 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 06:50:37 Alice3 [~Alice@81.108.3.89] has joined #lisp 06:56:01 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.112.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04:38 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-162-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:05:04 ASau [~user@95-26-139-8.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 07:05:49 free_thinker [~willijar@134.151.144.246] has joined #lisp 07:05:52 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:08:50 iocor [~textual@87.194.167.19] has joined #lisp 07:08:53 -!- iocor [~textual@87.194.167.19] has quit [Changing host] 07:08:53 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 07:09:18 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:09:34 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 07:11:15 ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 07:11:54 -!- Guest62668 [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:12:04 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@101.169.240.43] has quit [Quit: Bye] 07:12:25 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:13:08 ehu [~ehuels@109.38.20.52] has joined #lisp 07:23:39 -!- pnq [~nick@AC822D6B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:28:20 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:34:18 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:34:54 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:35:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:38:01 __rahul__ [~rahul@59.178.60.45] has joined #lisp 07:39:39 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:40:10 -!- __rahul__ [~rahul@59.178.60.45] has quit [Client Quit] 07:40:14 Guest62668 [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has joined #lisp 07:41:03 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:42:51 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:45:05 Joreji [~thomas@ht-210.humtec.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 07:47:37 which time-zone do you live? 07:47:40 aceluck_ [~aceluck@123.136.106.26] has joined #lisp 07:48:10 My time is 15pm, +8000 07:48:21 Hi - I'm trying to use swig to generate lisp bindings - but there is no typemap.i file for cffi ? 07:49:05 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:49:05 sorry, typemaps.i 07:49:54 sorry ... 07:50:20 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:51:09 -!- Guest62668 [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:51:14 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 07:52:14 -!- DGASAU` [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:55:38 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: guyal] 07:57:10 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 07:59:36 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:01 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-37-252.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:06 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-213-185.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:07:40 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-213-185.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 08:08:28 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-11.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:08:54 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.121.193] has joined #lisp 08:09:39 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-213-185.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:10:09 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-103.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:10:15 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-213-185.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 08:12:50 ccomendant [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ccomendant] has joined #lisp 08:13:01 ehu` [~ehuels@109.38.20.52] has joined #lisp 08:13:23 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.38.20.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:15:35 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:19:26 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.38.20.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:20:45 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-hpmzuepupwcgmfly] has joined #lisp 08:24:12 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.156.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:28:12 ganggang [~chatzilla@60.209.129.66] has joined #lisp 08:29:06 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.121.193] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 08:33:16 -!- ganggang [~chatzilla@60.209.129.66] has left #lisp 08:34:41 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 08:38:00 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:38:53 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129208046.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:38:57 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:41:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ht-210.humtec.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:43:41 -!- arrsim [~user@128.250.116.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:50:42 Joreji [~thomas@ht-210.humtec.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 08:55:10 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 08:56:08 CrLF0710 [~user@114.96.77.226] has joined #lisp 08:57:39 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-183-233-81.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:54 Hi, i wonder if i give a special variable a new binding with a (LET ...) form, what will its value be from another thread(mp)'s view? 08:58:54 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-192-125.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:59:58 CrLF0710: bindings are thread-local 09:00:43 fe[nl]ix: so is it unbound? 09:01:38 fe[nl]ix: or is it bounded with the value from (DEFVAR ...) ? 09:02:12 Kryztof [~user@158.223.161.128] has joined #lisp 09:02:17 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:05:34 CrLF0710: it is whatever it was before 09:06:52 fe[nl]ix: So SYMBOL-VALUEs are global, and bindings are thread-local. Thanks a lot. 09:08:06 *Ralith* wonders where you got that 09:08:31 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 09:08:37 morning 09:09:02 *CrLF0710* thought it was what fe[nl]ix meant. 09:09:04 morning 09:09:13 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:10:54 fe[nl]ix: did you imply something about SYMBOL-VALUEs that I missed? 09:10:58 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 09:11:12 Ralith: no 09:11:28 *Ralith* continues to wonder, then. 09:12:59 huh? A special variable's value is decided by the SYMBOL-VALUE of that symbol when it's not bound by a (LET ) form, isn't it? 09:14:38 flanfl [~flanfl@146.176.227.174] has joined #lisp 09:15:18 CrLF0710: why don't you test this ? 09:15:24 Anyone here familiar with swig? 09:16:02 fe[nl]ix: i'm not very familiar with the MP-related stuff of CL. 09:16:50 CrLF0710: the standard doesn't specify MP semantics 09:16:52 on SBCL, symbol-value returns the local binding, if there is one 09:17:11 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:17:28 With or without threads, it's also defined to return the current special binding. 09:17:38 there's also sb-ext:symbol-global-value 09:18:32 *CrLF0710* realized he is wrong. 09:30:36 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 09:32:20 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:35:20 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:36:08 -!- aceluck_ [~aceluck@123.136.106.26] has quit 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Where can I find the iolib's issue tracker? :) 11:51:02 http://common-lisp.net/project/iolib/ -> Report bug 11:51:32 Thanks. You should mention it in the README for github. 11:53:35 ok 11:54:38 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:57:14 kilon [~kilon@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 12:01:49 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:09 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has joined #lisp 12:04:31 [SLB] [~slabua@host62-160-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:04:32 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host62-160-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 12:04:32 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 12:04:48 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:55 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.112.29] has joined #lisp 12:06:47 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:56 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:07:44 Amadiro [~Amadiro@109.179.227.130.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 12:07:59 -!- 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seconds] 12:40:19 kiuma [~kiuma@217.133.17.91] has joined #lisp 12:44:52 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-209-64.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/] 12:46:47 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:47:01 -!- Croms [~Croms@dhcp-089-098-010-207.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 12:47:17 stokachu [~zef@50.58.87.194] has joined #lisp 12:47:45 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 12:48:15 -!- gekko_ [~jjk@78.157.103.6] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:53:48 -!- Kryztof [~user@158.223.161.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:53:52 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:54:42 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:13 tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 12:55:42 -!- tycho is now known as tychoish 12:55:51 could use the github issue tracker 12:55:55 ksergio [~sgarcia@mail.ageophysics.com] has joined #lisp 12:58:37 no way in hell I'm using that for my projects 12:58:48 okay, okay... put down the knife 12:58:49 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-106-135.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:58:59 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 12:59:08 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-106-135.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:59:34 -!- cfdm [~user@114.205.86.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:46 what's so bad about it, anyway? 12:59:55 *dlowe* hasn't used it, only noticed its presence 12:59:57 kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-106-135.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:59:58 everything 13:00:16 -!- kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-106-135.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:00:28 enslaves humanity, eats babies, cops an attitude? 13:00:58 bug trackers aren't AIs yet 13:00:59 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:01:03 dlowe: likes to cover itself with a blanket when programming 13:01:12 rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qfrmadpcsvbutjeu] has joined #lisp 13:01:26 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-106-135.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:01:42 was anyone expecting them to be? 13:01:51 tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 13:02:54 -!- Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:03:56 -!- kilon [~kilon@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:04:15 Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:16 -!- Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:04:45 Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:46 -!- Facefox 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[~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has joined #lisp 15:20:08 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 15:20:50 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:20 DrForr [~jgoff@d149031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 15:21:59 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 15:23:07 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 15:23:13 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:02 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:27:23 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:27:50 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@109.179.227.130.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 15:28:26 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@d149031.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:28:34 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: guyal] 15:29:03 Amadiro [~Amadiro@109.179.227.130.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 15:29:39 sam-s [~sam@cl-pat-tr.clearspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:27 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:37:44 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:37:47 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:39:07 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 15:39:58 jgoff [~jgoff@d149031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 15:40:13 -!- jgoff is now known as DrForr 15:45:29 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-vuqbwuggpqdthrzx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:47:45 wassup loke 15:48:32 not much 15:49:20 no fishy ? 15:49:29 no fishy here 15:49:34 hmmmmm 15:50:03 loke meant to ask do you have lisp job up there east? with you posting "happy monday" each week :-) 15:50:28 I forgot to post it this week :-( 15:50:37 I'll make a special post on Monday's Eve 15:50:40 (i.e. Sunday) 15:52:02 well not gonna press if its a big secret 15:52:04 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:52:47 What secret? 15:53:12 " Do you have a lisp job?" 15:53:19 Oh 15:53:25 Well, not really 15:53:36 but I did manage to push one of my Lisp projects into a customer site :-) 15:53:39 yay! 15:54:08 prabuinet [~prabuinet@117.216.96.121] has joined #lisp 15:55:15 *maxm* always liked how they are less formal with interviews and such in east asia, I always start the day with morning shows showing asia stuff, and usually the analyst is speaking right behind some dude in a cubicle either trading or writing code.. Clueless camera operator closes in on the screen, since black screen with colorful text looks matrixy 15:55:24 it was cobol :-) 15:56:23 aw! 15:56:37 maxm: What are you talking about now? 15:57:45 loke: just something I noticed that on bloomberg or such tv shows, in the morning they usually cover asian markets, and that interviews and such are always done with someone in the middle of cubicle farm, rather then in the studio 15:57:55 ah 15:57:57 not always but often 15:58:09 I thought you meant "job interview" :-) 15:58:16 Me too :-) 15:58:30 maxm: browse youtube, there are a lot of Cobol and CICS videos. 15:58:45 You have to remember that things are very different in different parts of Asia. You can't say "in asia" and refer to some coherent culture 15:58:47 But Cobol is a modern programming language running on Linux, just like Lisp :-) 15:59:04 Trust me, there's a huge difference between Pakistan and Hong Kong 15:59:22 well loop over-verboseness was inspired a bit by Cobol, or so I heard somewhere 16:00:15 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:23 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:00:24 (SETQ TOTAL (PLUS (TIMES PRICE QUANTITY) TOTAL)) vs. ADD PRICE TIMES QUANTITY TO TOTAL. 16:00:27 not much different. 16:00:35 The alien language here is C. 16:00:41 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has joined #lisp 16:00:57 with all its {} and = ; % & ^ characters 16:01:38 shergill [~shergill@gateway/tor-sasl/shergill] has joined #lisp 16:01:44 pjb: Good point. It seems to be that the current state of programming popularity rewards languages that make use of many different symbols 16:02:02 loke: If only. CL has 978 different symbols. 16:02:02 pjb: Even Clojure does it :-) 16:02:19 symbol as in C terminology 16:04:40 Now I'm wondering how linker metadata can relate to popularity or clojure. 16:04:57 -!- shergill [~shergill@gateway/tor-sasl/shergill] has left #lisp 16:07:32 nha [~prefect@g225164102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:09:52 -!- echo-area [~user@123.120.238.15] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:22 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:20:00 I got offered big money last year to take a COBOL job at a big canadian bank. 16:20:03 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:20:13 fade: but oyu didnt? 16:20:21 not enough money in the world to get me to take that job. 16:21:00 I prefer to run my own outfit where I get to choose the tech that I work with. 16:21:01 I have a rule file somewhere. It doesn't contain a lot of rules, but the first one is never take a cobol job. 16:21:12 I think that's a reasonable rule. 16:21:41 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:22:34 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:22:39 but if you don't sprain your brain trying to think in cobol, there are high paying jobs for you. 16:22:41 I actually installed OpenCOBOL some time back, and played around with it until I was able to write some simple programs 16:23:25 Then I stopped. Looked at my screen. And decided that it was not a very rewarding experience 16:23:54 at this point, it's a very domain specific language. 16:25:10 maintenance programmer of a huge critial codebase that saw its genesis 40 years ago, is not a title that comes with a lot of peace of mind. 16:25:19 jewel [~jewel@196.215.220.160] has joined #lisp 16:26:12 pnq [~nick@172.163.123.7] has joined #lisp 16:26:42 ez271 [506d3e82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.109.62.130] has joined #lisp 16:26:46 its not the language, but figuring out all the conventions.. Oh, so account number 999 means its a special situation a, ok, wtf is -999 16:27:04 the guys responsible for AMQP tended to generate COBOL from different metalang 16:28:20 p_l: there are mad people in the world. some of them are programmers. 16:29:17 I think they took reasonable approach. They didn't wrie a lot of cobol, automating everything out of the process 16:29:32 why were they compiling to cobol? 16:30:14 All the business logic was in COBOL I bet 16:30:17 Fade: I'm betting "integration with existing COBOL code" 16:30:29 *ez271* smells banks. 16:30:38 yeah, financial sector 16:31:12 also, a lot of those "what number 999 represents" is preserved in "copybooks" (think C's #include) 16:31:21 record layouts etc. 16:31:36 prabuinet_ [~prabuinet@117.197.199.172] has joined #lisp 16:31:46 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@109.179.227.130.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 16:31:50 -!- inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279436462.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:32:28 -!- prabuinet [~prabuinet@117.216.96.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:32:28 -!- prabuinet_ is now known as prabuinet 16:33:05 Amadiro [~Amadiro@109.179.227.130.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 16:33:43 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-103.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:22 some common ones are being painfully rewritten into XML for use with Java 16:35:28 I know quite a few smart people who became bad programmers by living in java all the time. 16:35:39 specialisation is for insects. 16:35:55 I agree 16:36:07 I disagree. 16:36:37 finite lifetimes mean that specialisation is necessary. 16:36:44 Insects are mostly generalists. The ones that aren't are social creatures. 16:36:52 certain level, definitely 16:36:58 not specializing means never getting anything done :p 16:37:16 We're social creatures, therefore a certain amount of specialization is appropriate 16:37:34 Otherwise it's duplicated effort 16:38:10 m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.143] has joined #lisp 16:38:36 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 16:38:45 if you never specialize .. you might as well use defun 16:38:47 dlowe: The argument is usually about the "certain amount", not specialisation or not. 16:38:50 for the purposes of this commentary, 'specialisation' is a value equivalent to 'loses all curiosity'. 16:39:26 programming is duplicate effort, in a few years just about every program gets rewritten in a new language because the person that designed and wrote it left... or the manage changed...or (pick your excuse) 16:40:17 well at least in the head propeller heads favourate language 16:41:03 depends on the industry you're working on, I thin 16:41:04 k 16:41:25 In many industries, some programs never get rewritten even though they're begging for it 16:41:37 see COBOL systems in banking. 16:42:15 Kron__ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has joined #lisp 16:42:19 I've often wondered why Guy Steele focused on Fortran 16:42:55 Fade: I'm going to guess "because DARPA is interested in projects that depend on Fortran" 16:43:24 and the assembly systems in airlines :) 16:43:59 there's a lot of HLASM, too 16:44:34 dlowe: actually, every time you use ATM you're probably interacting with application written with HLASM 16:45:05 ikki [~ikki@189.196.97.17] has joined #lisp 16:45:12 until recently most of the ATMs in north america were running systems written in C hosted on OS/2 16:45:13 p_l: I've been seeing a lot of windows CE ATMs in the past few years 16:45:25 dlowe: not at the client side, on the server side 16:45:30 ah, yeah, no doubt 16:45:47 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:46:15 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 16:46:35 though I suspect IMS might been less stringent about languages than CICS (which for a long time required writing in assembly, because most other compilers wouldn't produce apropriately reentrant and not self-modifying code 16:49:57 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:50:30 z/TPF, interestingly, can be used from existing lisp implementations, though not fully (as transaction coordinator, afaik) 16:53:31 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:54:24 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@c-24-218-210-79.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:25 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@c-24-218-210-79.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:54:25 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has joined #lisp 16:59:05 Fortran is where all military/industrial complex stuff done by American university-trained engineers gets done. Fortress was the attempt to unify the Fortran and COBOL communities. 16:59:44 Fortran is where HPC happens 16:59:56 *Fade* wonders if there are any open Fortress compilers 17:00:01 COBOL was drudge work 17:00:17 I think Fortress has open source snapshots (compiler included). 17:00:26 They did that before ORCL could stop 'em 17:01:24 *ez271* tries the wayback machine. 17:02:13 -!- antgreen [~user@70.50.67.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:02:15 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:02:19 fortress appears to be delivered on the JVM 17:02:40 Fade: correct. For which ORCL distributed binary artifacts. 17:03:02 buh 17:03:36 I am Fade's total absence of will to involve oracle in his technology stack. 17:04:02 But http://goo.gl/Nzzul contains the 2007 announcement of Fortress by Sun Microsystems as covered by C|Net 17:04:24 fade: amen to that, brother. Amen. 17:05:38 -!- CrLF0710 [~user@114.96.77.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:54 I remember people used to be like that about IBM. 17:05:54 Since the Fortress interpreter is hosted on the JVM, all the methods that get executed enough (10^5 times) get optimized by the underlying JIT compiler. 17:06:13 So, half a compiler. 17:08:07 oracle/google was the last straw 17:08:44 i bid on a contract in december that would have used clojure because of the client's existing java code base, and i'm glad they didn't accept the bid. 17:13:57 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: cya] 17:14:05 uczen89 [d971e105@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.113.225.5] has joined #lisp 17:18:46 -!- ez271 [506d3e82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.109.62.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:19:11 oh cool, so Fortress is still alive? 17:20:07 add^_ [~add^_^@90.141.61.234] has joined #lisp 17:20:42 consequence: there are now three competing standards 17:21:58 danishman [~kvirc@62.243.156.218] has joined #lisp 17:22:38 lichtblau: I think it smells funny at this point. there haven't been any visible updates to the project fortress website since last summer. 17:23:12 Fade: looks like daily commits in the repo 17:23:43 I guess the darpa money is still flowing to the internal team. 17:24:13 Fortress people were at ILC, right when rumors about Sun's acquisition had started. So... would be nice to know the project survived. They were all so enthusiastic about their stuff. 17:24:38 Fade: DARPA pulled out. 17:24:42 GLS' involvement kept my curiosity piqued. 17:24:44 lol 17:24:47 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:26:49 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.156.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:27:42 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.110.142] has joined #lisp 17:30:38 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:21 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:37 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:33:37 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133] has joined #lisp 17:34:03 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-129-62.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:24 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 17:36:07 AeroNotix [~xeno@83.27.247.73] has joined #lisp 17:36:32 how do I determine if a getf is returning NIL because it's not in the map or if the value is really NIL 17:36:34 ? 17:37:32 by specifying a default value that is guaranteed to not occur naturally, and testing for that 17:38:22 Thanks 17:38:24 (let ((not-found '#:not-found)) (eq not-found (getf ... not-found))) 17:38:33 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:37 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has joined #lisp 17:41:22 wow thanks! 17:43:52 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 17:46:42 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 17:48:06 mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable162.45-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:51:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ht-210.humtec.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:52:30 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 17:52:42 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:53:13 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:53:19 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 17:54:02 urandom__ [~user@88.152.201.181] has joined #lisp 17:54:37 -!- pnq [~nick@172.163.123.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:56:49 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 17:57:48 felher [~whitedrag@fasel.nerd2nerd.org] has joined #lisp 18:04:31 alama [~jessealam@host114-247-static.87-94-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:05:22 anyone using ccl's run-program utility? 18:05:37 vantage|home [~vantage@37.216-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 18:05:38 i am 18:06:07 i'm having some trouble with it, and i'm not sure what's going on 18:06:25 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:06:48 ) 18:07:08 what are the symptoms? 18:07:36 i'm using run-program to call an external program; i use :output :stream, then i read the output stream after the program terminates (i use :wait t, always) 18:08:26 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:31 for some files, this works just as expected; for others, the external tool seems to just hang (0.0% CPU usage, nothing going on) 18:08:36 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:08:58 alama: it's blocking waiting for its output pipe to stop being full 18:09:29 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:09:32 dlowe: i suspect as much; the files where this works are relatively small, and the ones where it fails are somewhat big 18:10:08 alama: you'll have to get your output as a string or not use :wait t 18:10:31 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 18:10:42 i get my output by making a string out of the output stream -- are you saying that i can get a string directly? 18:11:38 I haven't tried it, but it looks like you could pass an output stream to run-program 18:12:06 try (with-output-to-string (stdout) (run-program ... :output stdout :wait t)) 18:12:12 hmm, i can try, but i'm not sure why this would be any different from using :output :stream 18:12:14 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.yhikad.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:12:27 trying 18:13:02 alama: the difference is that the stream can be read into a string rather than leaving the buffer full. 18:13:38 dlowe: hmm, with this i get an error pretty quickly: # is closed 18:14:08 dlowe: d'oh, my mistake -- i used :wait nil 18:14:15 with :wait t, this works as expected 18:14:44 thanks! 18:14:48 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:20 -!- prabuinet [~prabuinet@117.197.199.172] has quit [Quit: prabuinet] 18:16:19 -!- naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-158-32.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:16:24 naiv_ [~quassel@86.207.114.233] has joined #lisp 18:16:41 -!- uczen89 [d971e105@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.113.225.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:17:56 woo. np. 18:19:18 -!- madnificent is now known as m4dnificent 18:19:23 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 18:19:27 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:28 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 18:22:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:22:50 Guthur [~user@212.183.140.56] has joined #lisp 18:23:33 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:24:04 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:25:18 i have a bunch of images (not that many actually, but still) which i want to crop so they have a 4:3 aspect ratio and then i want to scale them so they have some maximal resulation. are there any lisp libraries to help me with that, or should i just do it manually? 18:25:22 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:27:15 graphicsmagick has tools perfect for that sort of thing 18:27:24 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 18:28:06 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:28:15 quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:22 ebobby [~fms@189.170.4.168] has joined #lisp 18:28:53 dlowe: not in quicklisp? :/ 18:29:10 it's a bunch of unix utilities, not lisp libraries. Sorry. 18:29:16 I don't know of lisp libraries 18:29:23 -!- borkman`` is now known as borkman 18:30:03 depends on whether cl-imagemagick is compatible with graphicsmagick 18:30:09 lisp-magick is though 18:30:23 dlowe: ah, that might work as well 18:30:31 gko [~user@42-75-55-35.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:23 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.214.154] has joined #lisp 18:31:42 Greetings! 18:33:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:33:20 If anyone remember my problem with slime+sbcl, this was a problem with sime-autodoc. I've disabled it and all is good now. Does anyone know any replacement for it? 18:34:06 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 18:34:45 hitecnologys: you could submit a bug entry for it to slime's bug tracker at launchpad 18:35:38 Okay, but wait a minute, I'll test if it's problem with eldoc. 18:35:57 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:35:58 <|3b|> madnificent: i think opticl can do cropping/resizing, not sure how much it automates that particular task 18:36:15 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:37:39 |3b|: might be interesting to look at as well 18:38:27 Yeah, it's problem with eldoc, not slime. 18:39:17 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:57 Where can I submit a bug? 18:43:25 But it works OK with Par Edit. Hm. 18:44:08 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:44:30 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:09 francogrex [~user@109.130.115.217] has joined #lisp 18:45:25 impomatic [~digital_w@87.115.178.251] has joined #lisp 18:45:26 dears, who can help me with this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/130004 ? 18:46:08 puchacz [~puchacz@87.194.5.99] has joined #lisp 18:46:17 francogrex: What is the problem? 18:46:18 I'm basically trying a "compound" loop 18:47:01 hitecnologys: I'd like that when the first condition is met : (equal (car i) "newdat") that another do sets off 18:47:48 hugoduncan [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:48:01 I can of course use (when ... inside the form but no longer colect into... 18:48:20 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 18:48:22 do I have to use collect I'm thinking out loud here... maybe not 18:48:32 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:48:49 I can just push into a temporary list.... here I solved my own problem 18:49:28 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:50:05 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 18:50:11 |3b|: looks like opticl does support it, thanks :) 18:51:00 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:54 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 18:52:37 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:57:26 francogrex: loop can also take embedded IFs. 18:57:53 lindes [~user@94.223.126.79] has joined #lisp 18:59:44 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.121.193] has joined #lisp 19:01:25 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@99.155.194.178] has joined #lisp 19:01:42 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 19:03:01 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #lisp 19:03:59 -!- antonv [2e35c32a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.42] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:04:03 hugodunc` [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:04:23 Is there something on the sbcl side that I need to do to be able to send unicode characters to slime? I did (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) on emacs side. 19:04:47 scottj: what's your LOCALE? are you on OS X? 19:04:57 scottj: I did the same and it seems to work for me. 19:05:21 pkhuong: ubuntu, not sure US? 19:05:27 -!- hugoduncan [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:05:56 sbcl 1.0.44 19:06:00 s/44/54/ 19:06:25 I have LANG=en_CA.UTF-8, but IIRC, Ubuntu defaults to utf-8. What's the value of sb-impl::*default-external-format*? 19:07:08 :UTF-8 19:07:28 ok, and what's the error? 19:08:37 pkhuong: I think there's no error, he just checked that he did all right. scottj, right? 19:09:28 the problem is if I eval "°" my slime connection breaks 19:10:17 Did you write that setq form in your .emacs? Have you tried that from a fresh emacs process? 19:10:46 pkhuong: the setq has been evaluated. (I've had there for years) 19:11:06 and what's in *inferior-lisp*? 19:11:15 francogres: (loop for i in (remove-if-not (lambda (item) (equal (car item) "newdat")) data) ... ? 19:11:42 pkhuong: nothing. I'm using slime-connect 19:11:45 -!- ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:12:06 (francogrex) 19:12:14 pkhuong: it could be that this is a problem with me running a really old version of slime. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a config setting I missed on the sbcl side 19:12:23 <|3b|> there used to be an option to specify coding when starting slime server, but i thought it was always utf8 now 19:12:32 <|3b|> swank server rather 19:12:47 |3b|: wouldn't be there on .44-era SWANK. 19:13:11 pkhuong: my swank version is from ~2009 :) 19:13:27 |3b|: Me too. But maybe it's just because I'm on osx. 19:14:17 FWIW, I also have (set-language-environment "UTF-8"), but I don't think that's relevant. 19:14:51 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 19:15:15 <|3b|> try passing :coding-system "utf-8" to swank:create-server 19:15:22 <|3b|> (or start-server or whatever it is) 19:15:40 (print "") evaluates OK for me. 19:16:19 |3b|: ah right, the srever isn't started from emacs. 19:16:42 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@37.216-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 19:17:15 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.112.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:33 -!- gko [~user@42-75-55-35.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:18:53 |3b|: thankks, that seems to have done it 19:18:57 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@109.179.227.130.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:20:06 b_ [~chatzilla@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:13 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:59 Oh, it's 2 on my clock better to go to bed. Goodbye! 19:21:49 Is there any library which has util to ease defining classes, for example, just have the slot name as the reader, initarg etc, i wrote a macro but wondering if something exists already 19:22:04 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.214.154] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:22:06 b_: no. Most people get over that phase quickly. 19:23:18 thanks 19:25:41 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.214.154] has joined #lisp 19:26:01 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.214.154] has quit [Client Quit] 19:26:09 -!- hugodunc` is now known as hugod 19:26:10 b_: defclass-star 19:27:01 mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has joined #lisp 19:27:44 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 19:30:16 oo, i like but am little confused now due to previous reply, seems it is a path to bad practice and I should stick to what lowest common maybe 19:30:44 it's useless 19:31:51 hmm will stop being lazy then :) 19:31:57 you don't define classes all day, so abbreviating serves no good purpose, as you won't save much typing 19:32:12 Amadiro [~Amadiro@85.165.68.218] has joined #lisp 19:33:17 yep 19:33:23 pnq [~nick@AC820195.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:33:38 pjb: in this specific example I gave, how can it be done in embedded loop form ( http://paste.lisp.org/display/130004)? 19:33:41 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:34:00 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:38 dropster [~Kim@0x3ec7a313.inet.dsl.telianet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:35:49 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:36:29 mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has joined #lisp 19:38:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:38:37 Rather than obfuscating your code if you really want to save typing out class definition some emacs skeleton might do 19:38:42 and some of us like to think in terms of interfaces rather than slots. 19:38:44 there was actually some mode for that, red something 19:38:49 redshank. 19:38:54 that's it 19:39:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:39:20 I tried it once, but didn't really stick with it 19:39:37 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 19:39:52 what happened to michaelw ? 19:40:11 I think he decided he didn't like CL enough. 19:40:25 too bad 19:41:41 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:41:49 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:42:12 there was activity on one clawk at his github 2 months ago 19:42:34 mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has joined #lisp 19:48:44 -!- alvis` [~user@tx-184-6-177-129.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:51:23 Guest62668 [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has joined #lisp 19:52:29 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:52:42 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-107-4-57-167.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:58 francogrex: first, if all the elements of data have at least three elements, you can write (loop for (key compare flag) in data when (equal key "newdat") do when (and (equal compare "<20") (= flag 1)) ) 19:53:12 francogrex: otherwise I don't understand why you want an embedded loop. 19:54:24 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:57:15 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-107-4-57-167.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:01:08 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:01:35 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:38 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:55 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 20:01:59 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 20:02:30 -!- dropster [~Kim@0x3ec7a313.inet.dsl.telianet.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:03:24 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.110.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:05:09 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:06:15 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:06:18 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:09:41 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-150-187.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:15 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@99.155.194.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:11:15 -!- gigamonkey_ is now known as gigamonkey 20:11:48 madnificent: opticl should do what you want 20:12:13 pjb: debugger invoked on a SB-INT:SIMPLE-PROGRAM-ERROR: A compound form was expected, but WHEN found. 20:13:21 the code was (loop for (key compare flag cnt) in data when (equal key "newdat") do when (and (equal compare "<20") (equal flag 1)) collect... 20:14:18 francogrex: lose the DO. 20:14:32 -!- idunnoplz [~fold@99-181-48-105.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 20:14:34 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:14:55 -!- danishman [~kvirc@62.243.156.218] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:15:40 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.220.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:15:50 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:20 ok but then I'll need to repeat the when (equal key "newdat") for every condition and collect into... 20:17:42 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:54 but it's ok not a big deal 20:17:58 (loop  when  do (loop repeat 1 when )) 20:18:47 oops 20:19:03 you want to collect into outer loop variables so no. 20:19:29 So as you said, either you need to repeat the condition, or you need to deal with your own variables and push yourself. 20:20:32 repeat is not a big deal I just have 4 conditions ... 20:23:00 dto [~user@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:09 i read something today about a child named Maya 20:23:32 at one point i began developing software for a little girl who was a late talker and we didn't know what was wrong 20:23:57 i would gladly give my life for her. 20:24:02 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:24:04 so i have a new version of the patent pledge. 20:24:18 win your patent case against me, and i hunt you down and kill you. 20:24:24 that is all. 20:24:26 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:38 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:25:18 ummm 20:26:04 he's a nutter 20:26:24 he wasn't like that before as far as I recall ! 20:27:12 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.115.217] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:27:28 dto ? 20:27:41 AeroNotix: he left 20:27:52 Guthur: I know, I was hoping someone else could explain 20:28:04 antgreen [~user@70.50.66.241] has joined #lisp 20:28:21 It's unusual for sure, but no point speculating 20:29:03 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@108-222-196-145.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:03 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@108-222-196-145.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:29:03 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 20:30:59 so all - I got the Practical Common Lisp and I've played with lisp before and I do really like the 'idea' and some of the proposed idioms it allows you but never before have I *made* anything in it. This book is great! 20:31:02 https://github.com/AeroNotix/fun-with-lisp/blob/66b7d810806a9c222b0a4d0bc1bac004cf35bf90/database.lisp 20:31:23 The database example was REALLY well built-up 20:31:32 and a great introduction to small dsl's 20:31:34 -!- pnq [~nick@AC820195.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:31:44 hooray chapter3db 20:31:51 yeah! 20:32:07 I made some changes to how the select function worked 20:32:18 as I thought it was weird defining functions for each where clause 20:33:15 also, the pk 20:35:48 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 20:37:55 .....I guess I should have read on 20:37:58 this is just fucking magical 20:38:01 MAGIC lisp 20:39:04 AeroNotix: keeping select as a high order function (one that accepts the selector-fn) is bit more versatile 20:39:26 Guthur: Yeah, I agree now that I've seen how the book implements it 20:40:08 i should probably replace 'bit' with 'a lot' in my previous statement as well, hehe 20:40:14 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 20:40:45 I wish I had read this before starting with Clojure 20:41:02 AeroNotix: write a blog entry about that! 20:41:14 pjb: What's a blog/ 20:41:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:41:56 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-113-135.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:57 is there anyway to pass a map key as a symbol ? 20:42:23 (and not as a string) 20:44:01 You can use symbols as keys. 20:46:05 I mean (getf map k) instead of (getf map :k) 20:46:11 or 20:46:22 (getf map (as-key k)) 20:46:26 with getf you MUST use symbols! 20:46:32 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:37 AeroNotix: :k is a symbol. 20:46:53 pkhuong: 20:47:12 I thought things that were 'names' of vars/objects were symbols 20:47:21 but nevermind 20:47:31 keywords ARE symbols. 20:47:35 ok 20:47:51 I understand that I mislabelled things but the question remains 20:48:31 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:48:37 Are you asking whether it's possible to have a variable there instead of a literal value? Yes. Keywords are symbols that evaluate to themselves, but you can use a normal variable, denoted by a symbol, and the evaluation rules for functions (getf is a function) will happen normally. 20:49:11 I'm kind of asking that but I don't want to define a variable which resolves to a key 20:49:23 what do you want then? 20:49:59 I want to pass a key without : and have it resolve via some magic function to a key 20:50:02 i think he is not aware of LET 20:50:19 let is a scoped definition? 20:50:25 ? 20:50:27 *maxm* may be mis-remembering but PCL introduces lexical variables later then other tutorials 20:50:57 AeroNotix: I don't know what you're trying to do, but I'd try reading more. You seem to be missing something really fundamental, but I can't tell what. 20:51:04 AeroNotix: the only way to write a keyword with : is to set the current package to the KEYWORD package. 20:51:19 AeroNotix: (in-package "KEYWORD") (cl:list a b c) 20:51:25 pkhuong: pjg ok 20:51:26 --> (:A :B :C) 20:51:26 zenbalrog [~johnnyc@adsl-98-70-100-149.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:28 thanks 20:51:48 But you can use normal symbols as keys, you don't need to use keywords. 20:53:03 pjb: this is what I am asking 20:53:13 just literally using symbols without using the keyword syntax 20:53:23 thank you for wording it like that 20:53:29 AeroNotix: actually, you can use any kind of object, but since getf use EQL, you must use the same object to look it up later. 20:54:11 I'll carry on reading, probably my questions will be answered 20:54:27 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 20:55:00 AeroNotix: 'foo (i.e. (quote foo)) will evaluate to the symbol foo. 20:56:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-11.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:58:52 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129208046.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 21:01:27 -!- urandom__ [~user@88.152.201.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:16 -!- zenbalrog [~johnnyc@adsl-98-70-100-149.tys.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 21:06:49 -!- ksergio [~sgarcia@mail.ageophysics.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:07:15 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 21:07:38 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:39 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 21:13:06 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:44 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 21:15:32 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:15:38 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:52 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:19:47 -!- schmx is now known as schmrkc 21:19:56 -!- schmrkc is now known as schme 21:20:06 -!- schme [~marcus@c83-254-190-169.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 21:20:06 schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 21:20:10 -!- schme is now known as schmrkc 21:20:14 -!- schmrkc is now known as schmx 21:21:01 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-233-186.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:59 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-231-164.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:23:11 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:25:14 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 21:26:58 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:27:48 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@81.108.3.89] has quit [] 21:30:12 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:30:17 younder [~john@69.248.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 21:30:35 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.196.97.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:31:38 -!- antgreen [~user@70.50.66.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:33:06 My funlib http://paste.lisp.org/+2SBE. 21:33:57 pretty basic but a few routines might be interesting. partion-by is pretty good. 21:34:13 ez271 [506d3e82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.109.62.130] has joined #lisp 21:34:28 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053013222.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:35:18 Just basically testing some functional approachech for my Formula laguage. As syuch I ave not really take into account alexandria. Nor have I mede them generic relying sly on lists. 21:35:26 Take it or leave it. 21:36:24 lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:40 ikki [~ikki@189.196.97.17] has joined #lisp 21:38:22 younder: I think it's better starting writing your own library. Later, when you're more proficient with the language, you may choose to use a library with more criteria. 21:45:32 S11001001 [~sirian@c-98-216-249-29.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.196.97.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:46:05 -!- S11001001 [~sirian@c-98-216-249-29.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:46:05 S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has joined #lisp 21:48:17 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-150-187.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:49:35 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-150-187.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:39 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: brb] 21:51:08 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:51:25 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 21:54:21 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:54:46 pjb: or get stuck with a massive refactoring project to convert from your home-spun lib to more standard ones :-P 21:54:46 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@108-222-196-145.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:46 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@108-222-196-145.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:54:47 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 21:56:11 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-108-80-231-20.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:58 forrest__ [~forrest@rrcs-64-183-234-208.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:00:05 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87.194.5.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:01:59 ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:04:15 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:04:33 ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:08:41 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-80-231-20.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:37 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@90.141.61.234] has quit [Quit: add^_] 22:11:24 -!- sam-s [~sam@cl-pat-tr.clearspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:12:01 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:12:25 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:17:48 agumonkey [~agu@197.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:24 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:39 ikki [~ikki@187.193.139.28] has joined #lisp 22:20:54 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-244-241.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Eish] 22:26:54 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:23 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:27:43 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@83.27.247.73] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 22:29:48 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:41 -!- ez271 [506d3e82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.109.62.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:32:42 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:33:00 anyone familiar with PAIP pattern matcher and know why match-if will not eval action 22:33:11 the action* 22:33:39 eval the binding values even 22:33:51 http://norvig.com/paip/patmatch.lisp 22:34:01 I don't remember. I wrote my own pattern matcher. Fare did the same. 22:34:40 pjb: I have the intention of rolling my own later, wanted to learn from PAIPs first 22:34:46 -!- lindes [~user@94.223.126.79] has left #lisp 22:35:34 bindings => ((?Z . 7) (?Y . 4) (?OP . +) (?X . 3)) 22:36:01 I see evaluated values here. 22:36:12 and it is trying to eval (eql (?op ?x ?y) ?z) but none of the variables are bound 22:36:39 `((?Z . ,(+ 3 4)) (?Y . ,(* 2 2)) (?OP . ,(intern "+")) (?X . ,(+ 1 2))) => ((?z . 7) (?y . 4) (?op . +) (?x . 3)) 22:36:50 really? 22:36:54 That's a bug. 22:40:19 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:40:26 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:42:24 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:42:37 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:42:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/130013 22:43:21 that's the issue extracted from the pattern matching code 22:43:35 can you see where I am screwing up, should that work? 22:43:48 Try: (progv-eval '(prolog::?op prolog::?x prolog::?y) '((prolog::?Y . 4) (prolog::?OP . +) (prolog::?X . 3))) 22:43:59 -!- alama [~jessealam@host114-247-static.87-94-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:44:59 -!- lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:45:31 lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab6ce.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:34 nope, I am actually in the prolog package when I call that fn 22:45:38 -!- forrest__ [~forrest@rrcs-64-183-234-208.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: forrest__] 22:47:16 alama [~jessealam@host114-247-static.87-94-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:47:17 sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 22:47:43 is there something like ensure-directory-exists in standard lib, alexandria etc 22:48:24 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:48:32 pjb: as far as you can see should that work? 22:48:47 I' 22:48:57 m not looking far at all right now. But I'd say yes. 22:49:12 sezo: cl-fad:directory-exists-p maybe 22:49:46 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.139.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:49:53 I suppose I should try a different implementation 22:50:15 sezo: er, http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_ensu_1.htm ? 22:50:21 would be surprised if it was actually a bug in SBCL 22:50:35 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 22:55:15 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:55:46 doesn't work in clisp either 22:56:35 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 22:56:36 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:57:52 seems some have run into it before http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/Lisp/comp.lang.lisp/2005-03/2171.html 22:59:14 -!- kanru` [~kanru@61-228-145-111.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.50.1] 22:59:20 -!- b_ [~chatzilla@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:01:15 -!- alama [~jessealam@host114-247-static.87-94-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:02:19 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.121.193] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 23:03:13 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@d149031.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:04:04 ikki [~ikki@189.196.97.17] has joined #lisp 23:04:28 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:03 i have two systems in one .asd file. I can only load the second system if I load the first one, that shares the same name as .asd file. is this expected behavior? 23:12:25 sezo: yes, the system name is used to decide to load the .asd file 23:12:42 asdf does not load every asd file in its search path on startup 23:13:12 for anything that is a 'published' library the system should be in a same-named asd file; systems in other-named files should be only for things like testing 23:14:15 yeah i think i'll do that 23:17:49 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 23:17:49 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Client Quit] 23:17:57 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:13 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 23:20:28 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:38 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 23:26:47 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 23:28:54 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.140.59] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 23:31:01 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:34:37 -!- agumonkey [~agu@197.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:35:52 DataLinkDroid [~David@110.145.181.110] has joined #lisp 23:36:41 pnq [~nick@AC817869.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:39:07 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.112.29] has joined #lisp 23:39:13 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.140.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:52 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:43:11 derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 23:43:52 [SLB] [~slabua@host62-160-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:43:53 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host62-160-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 23:43:53 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 23:44:17 arrsim [~user@128.250.116.167] has joined #lisp 23:56:47 Guthur: interesting. i was just re-reading bits from PAIP last night (it being morning now...) 23:58:23 dt0 [~user@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:25 -!- dt0 [~user@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp