00:00:57 Are there any bots here? 00:04:53 agumonkey [~agu@197.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:16 kwa1977 [~kwa@CPE-121-214-126-60.lnse4.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:17:19 ahh it's a wonderful day 00:17:55 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:18:14 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:19:30 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.59] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:40 ikki [~ikki@fixed-203-69-117.iusacell.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:49 -!- flipout_1 [~scense@75-175-122-77.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:25:08 -!- agumonkey [~agu@197.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:29:35 what's the quickest/easiest way for me to do something like javascript's string.split('-'), but in common lisp? 00:30:14 commonlisp has no way to do this 00:31:08 minion: split-sequence 00:31:08 split-sequence: SPLIT-SEQUENCE (formerly known as PARTITION) is a member of the Common Lisp Utilities family of programs, designed by community consensus. http://www.cliki.net/split-sequence 00:31:14 minion: cl-ppcre 00:31:14 cl-ppcre: CL-PPCRE is a portable, Perl-compatible regular expression library by Edi Weitz. http://www.cliki.net/cl-ppcre 00:32:20 -!- organometallica [~bigsqueez@bigsqueeze.scs.uiuc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:32:32 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 00:40:44 -!- urandom__ [~user@p54B0EFD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:51 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:49:16 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:49:38 jasox [~user@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 00:53:11 -!- edgar-rft [~me@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Eternal darkness] 00:54:16 patrickwonders 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[~uu@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:29:14 teggi [~teggi@123.21.163.71] has joined #lisp 05:33:09 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.178.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:39:33 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:40:22 wztian [~quassel@119.41.26.49] has joined #lisp 05:43:25 organometallica [~bigsqueez@c-24-14-61-124.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:30 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-241-171.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:45:49 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.255.54] has quit [Quit: faust45] 05:47:02 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 05:48:33 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.19.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:55:25 -!- ghostfunc [~chatzilla@gateway/tor-sasl/ghostfunc] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [SeaMonkey 2.10/20120604225702]] 05:55:48 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:59:28 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128159048.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 05:59:29 eni_ [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:59 -!- eni_ is now known as eni 06:04:59 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-226-223.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:05:02 asvil [~asvil@178.120.79.195] has joined #lisp 06:14:05 wztian_ [~quassel@li379-10.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 06:14:08 nipra [~nipra@122.177.245.56] has joined #lisp 06:14:10 -!- wztian [~quassel@119.41.26.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:17:57 fchurca [~fchurca@190.51.85.78] has joined #lisp 06:20:44 hullo 06:20:56 is there anyone around? 06:23:45 mrSpec [~Spec@89-68-55-121.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 06:23:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-68-55-121.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 06:23:48 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:27:26 wztian [~quassel@119.41.26.49] has joined #lisp 06:28:10 -!- wztian_ [~quassel@li379-10.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:33:22 -!- 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[~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 07:01:25 -!- organometallica [~bigsqueez@c-24-14-61-124.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:03:22 nipra [~nipra@122.177.32.1] has joined #lisp 07:04:18 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-248-241-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:24 What do you guys think of ecl? 07:06:51 i think of it as an implementation of cl that can be easily embedded. 07:07:07 segfault: as in embeddable cl? 07:07:44 sounds like an interesting idea; for robotics for example 07:07:58 Yea. That's what I was thinking. 07:08:10 I might use it in some of the places I currently use lua. 07:08:24 Is this a new project or is it mature? 07:08:49 let's see 07:08:57 it's current, with a may release 07:09:49 and it's been around since early 2011 at the very least from what i can search right now 07:09:57 possibly far earlier 07:10:00 Yea 07:11:41 Anyway, seems neat. 07:12:03 it is mature and maintained. it has been around for many years. 07:12:13 the sourceforge bugtracker has entries from 2001 07:12:41 seems mature then too in addition to current 07:13:05 H4ns: ever used it? can you give some insight? 07:13:19 Awesome! Now I need to find a reason to actually use it. :) 07:14:08 SegFaultAX: sentient quadracopter. 07:14:09 lol 07:15:00 fchurca: i have not used it, no. but other people in this channel have, and while it is not very popular as a generic cl implementation, it seems to be good enough for actual use 07:15:04 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-209-64.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:15:40 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-209-64.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 07:16:29 I reckon it's not popular in the same way Lua isn't popular (or atleast maintream), it's not terribly useful when not embedded in larger applications. 07:16:51 I'm sure it's a great implementation, but for general purpose stuff may as well just use SBCL or something. 07:17:45 Or clojure for that matter. 07:18:43 i myself use clisp for the user-friendliness and sbcl when stuff's ready to compile 07:18:47 -!- jasox [~user@178.239.26.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:19:17 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-115-173.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:19:40 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:20:22 I haven't really used CL for anything useful for like 2 years. :( I've been too swept up in Erlang and other functional languages. Not to mention the C++ and Ruby I do at work. 07:20:44 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-248-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:00 i took up cl last year in a languages theory course at my university, but my work isn't lisp-related either; lots of php and sql :P 07:23:10 i am taking an artificial intelligence course; they gave us an intro to prolog, and for an assignment we could chose any language (guess my choice :P) 07:23:12 jasox [~user@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 07:23:34 That's awesome. 07:24:27 although it has actually fallen into being an "introduction to ai" course in the last decade, for what i can see from past notes in the photocopy shop 07:25:21 i'm considering running for assistant teacher next semester and pump up the level again 07:25:28 and give some lisp :P 07:25:30 Meh, the most advanced AI I've done is a BPNN and a Bayesian classifier. 07:25:44 Simple stuff. 07:26:05 I should have wrapped AI in quotes. :) 07:26:50 i haven't done much yet either, just an evolutionary algorithm for minimizing a one-parameter function and a couple production systems 07:27:26 Ooh I've done that. I worked through a couple tutorials on genetic algorithms for solving some fun problems. 07:27:38 i'll try to take some serious stuff in the (southern) winter break before running for assistant 07:28:04 I had fun implementing new heuristics to watch how it effected the evolution of the solution. 07:28:04 Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 07:29:00 i'm trying to get some classic books on ai, but i can only get spanish translations here, and my government is halting imports 07:29:08 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA26CEF.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:29:27 Anyway, I think I'm gonna pass out. 07:29:36 Dunno why I'm even up so late. 07:29:39 G'nite! :) 07:29:51 'night segfault 07:30:25 (sleep (* 60 60 8)) 07:31:07 nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-219-42-250.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 07:32:53 -!- jasox [~user@178.239.26.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:33:48 -!- Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has left #lisp 07:40:24 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[~asvil@178.120.79.195] has joined #lisp 09:55:29 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:56:38 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.79.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:57:55 asvil [~asvil@178.120.79.195] has joined #lisp 09:58:47 fvides [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:06:01 -!- DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@63-231-108-178.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:06:50 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 10:12:22 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:14:07 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:15:00 [SLB] [~slabua@host40-160-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:15:00 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host40-160-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 10:15:00 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 10:19:07 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.32.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:19:17 b_ [~chatzilla@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:21:51 |SLB| [~slabua@host76-53-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:21:54 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:23:46 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:29:53 I want to experiment with providing english interface to any application (sql-ish), so I can say things like: find order with id 10, find product with name like tintin 10:29:53 phao [phao@187.1.193.77] has joined #lisp 10:29:54 Winston and horn, goes about this with things called 'transition trees',something tree like 'find -> object -> with -> attrname -> like* -> attrval', 10:29:55 First it designs an interpreter, then designs a compiler to lisp. 10:29:57 is this the best way to achieve this? Is there a more general way.. or atleast for learning these things, i should trudge through this and learn anyway before more advanced methods? 10:30:34 I am watching a presentation here, and a guy said "Sometimes, people get annoyed when I use recursion instead of arrays." 10:31:06 I have no clue what that is. COuld anybody give me a clue? 10:31:35 nipra [~nipra@122.177.32.1] has joined #lisp 10:32:01 nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-219-42-250.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 10:34:12 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:34:38 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 10:34:51 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 10:36:17 -!- hiyosi [~hiyosi@59.91.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:05 silenius [~silenius@i59F7533F.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:42:51 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 10:43:51 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 10:44:09 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:45:16 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 10:45:25 -!- |SLB| [~slabua@host76-53-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:47:45 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:47:51 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:58:52 ghostfunc [~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/ghostfunc] has joined #lisp 10:59:00 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 10:59:25 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:59:35 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:04:36 -!- Natch| [~natch@178.73.212.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:05:34 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@70.83.76.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 11:08:33 -!- alama [~jessealam@eduroam-207-83.wlan.uni-bonn.de] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:12:49 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:18:55 phao: hard to tell with context. In general many algorithms have a "natural" way of laying them out, which may be iterative or recursive. Some people think iteration is evil and write clearly iterative algorithms using recursion, making it less clear, which causes feeling of annoyance in others reading such code 11:18:56 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@70.83.76.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:19:04 s/with/without/ 11:19:29 lots more people write clearly recursive algorithms iteratively. 11:19:58 iterative == optimized for the puter! 11:20:19 Kron__ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has joined #lisp 11:20:23 recursive == optimized for ya analog gray mass 11:21:09 well yes its a matter of taste I guess. But something like "sum all elements in array" to me personally is more understandable using iteration. Especially if recursive version goes through hoops to force tail call elimination 11:21:33 -!- ashish [lostcase@freebsd/developer/ashish] has quit [Quit: Whenever we are together, its always estatically palpitating!] 11:22:05 well, i find the recursive version more easy to read.... 11:22:07 maxm: the recursive version will parallelise and incrementalise much better. 11:22:27 but perform poorly on the stack ? 11:23:57 pkhuong: you bringing in other criteria, by the "natural way of laying them out" I meant by criteria of understandability. An example would be an psychology trial where you show 100 ppl iterative or recursive version for 2 seconds, then make them click 4-choice answers as to what algorithm implements 11:24:04 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:24:23 I feel that if you perform that with 100 cs students, you'll get a lot larger "understanding at first glance" rate for iterative version 11:24:37 ask math students, it might be different. 11:24:51 natural depends a lot on person's background 11:24:55 I just didn't understand "using recursion instead of arrays" 11:25:05 but first, you'd have to filter out all the actuaries. 11:25:20 I mean, array is a datastruct, and recursion is a way to define things... Don't seem to be alternatives to one another 11:26:20 phao: we've been assuming that the comment was in the very old vein of iterative algorithms with flat data structures (arrays, hash tables, etc), vs recursion on trees/graphs. 11:27:41 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:28:09 heh 11:29:33 the flat structure being an easy to eye opinion is overvalued....... 11:29:40 look at longer examples.... 11:30:03 after some branching..... 11:30:12 maxm: my point was, if you try and make reduce/+ fast and understandable, it's probably easier to start with a free-er form recursive way of looking at the operation, and specialise *that* to iterative or recursive code. 11:31:05 so, arguably, looking at summing the elements of an array as a recursive operation is clearer and more enlightening about the task's properties. 11:32:18 [SLB] [~slabua@host126-163-dynamic.3-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:32:18 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host126-163-dynamic.3-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 11:32:18 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 11:34:58 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053011057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 11:36:08 ashish [lostcase@freebsd/developer/ashish] has joined #lisp 11:40:19 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:46 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 11:43:02 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 11:46:34 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 11:48:06 -!- flipout_1 [~scense@75-175-122-77.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:48:25 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:48:43 -!- ashish is now known as ash_ish 11:50:20 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:52:32 pnq [~nick@ACA23BC3.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:54 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:21 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:49 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.75.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:16 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 12:01:20 stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.21.25] has joined #lisp 12:02:01 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 12:02:08 Hello #lisp 12:02:21 -!- kami` is now known as kami 12:03:33 What are my current options for calling SOAP web services from sbcl? 12:03:49 -!- docAvid [~user@74-94-233-157-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:03:52 jiroukaja [~jiroukaja@softbank221094150218.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:19 cxml-rpc uses drakma for the HTTP client and CXML to parse XML, both solid staples. 12:06:35 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 12:07:05 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-23-27.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:07:19 -!- phao [phao@187.1.193.77] has left #lisp 12:09:00 pkhuong: do I understand correctly: it would be my job to implement the unpacking of the soap envelope etc.? 12:10:54 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.5.25] has joined #lisp 12:11:20 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.79.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:21 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-209-64.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)] 12:11:37 There's CL-SOAP (http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-soap/), but I don't know how complete it got before the developer moved on. ql:system-apropos reveals hu.dwim.util.soap, if you're ok with hungarian lisp. 12:11:38 asvil [~asvil@178.120.79.195] has joined #lisp 12:12:26 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@70.83.76.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 12:14:15 pkhuong: thank you for the pointers 12:15:45 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:33 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 12:16:36 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:05 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:21 |SLB| [~slabua@87.13.168.189] has joined #lisp 12:20:32 -!- joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:22:50 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:23:49 -!- |SLB| [~slabua@87.13.168.189] has quit [Client Quit] 12:24:46 kami: hu.dwin.util.soap is a slight abstraction on top of HTTP sockets. It doesn't grok WSDL at all. 12:25:52 kami: cl-soap actually reads in WSDL documents to introspect method parameters, but it only produces rpc/encoded rather than the preferred document/literal for actual RPC (i.e. it doesn't work everywhere) 12:26:34 Of the two, only hu.dwim.util.soap has a prayer of a chance of accepting patches, getting some amount of support. 12:26:38 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:27:47 ykm [~yash@182.237.186.34] has joined #lisp 12:29:22 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:29:53 *ez2718* has often thought about forking cl-soap, but since I usually deploy to JVMs (or one is easily available), I have found it much more profitable to let the Java monkeys solve "all" the SOAP compatiblity problems with the sheer numbers of opposable thummbs. 12:30:10 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-248-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:30:21 -!- eni 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joined #lisp 15:04:25 holycow [~fekoff@69.172.160.67] has joined #lisp 15:05:57 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:07:11 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has joined #lisp 15:09:18 offtopic but since many here are into physics, I've been enjoying making full of myself in the physics puzzles threads being posted by John Baez on g+: https://plus.google.com/u/0/117663015413546257905/posts/azgtq2gwKJ1 15:12:39 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:05 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:14 -!- b_ [~chatzilla@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:13:17 maxm: offtopic should go to #lispcafe. 15:15:00 -!- atekinalp [~alper@85.105.28.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:15:42 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:18:04 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has 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[~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 17:42:16 ok, i found what i was going on about: there popular name is ATNs (augmented transition network) http://www.bookshelf.jp/texi/onlisp/onlisp_24.html 17:42:54 oops, their* 17:43:11 (require :cl-rmath) works in SLIME, but not in a command line interpreter. What can I use instead? 17:44:00 faheem: (ql:quickload "cl-rmath") 17:44:58 loke: I'm not using quicklisp. Is that quicklisp? 17:45:06 Guest62668 [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has joined #lisp 17:45:08 faheem: yes. 17:45:13 faheem: and you should be using Quicklisp 17:45:43 loke: but require works for me inside SLIME. And I already have cl-rmath installed/ 17:46:00 faheem: quickload loads. 17:46:18 require is very poorly specified. It's not something people generally use 17:46:32 pkhuong: i thought it makes it's own separate installation. 17:47:02 faheem: you can override that using the standard ASDF stuff 17:47:19 In sbcl and ccl, I think require just called the built copies of asdf 17:47:21 faheem: have you tried (require 'asdf) before (require :cl-rmath)? 17:47:38 faheem: both. 17:47:43 stassats That might work. Let me try. 17:48:43 stassats: it does. but why is the (require 'asdf) not required in slime? 17:49:06 pkhuong: I'm sorry, don't follow. 17:49:12 pkhuong: both? 17:49:23 faheem: slime needs asdf, so it loads asdf first itself. 17:49:35 faheem: quicklisp loads and installs if needed. 17:49:41 pkhuong Oh, I see. 17:50:08 phadthai: Ok, quicklisp load and installs asdf if you tell it to use asdf? 17:50:18 load -> loads? 17:50:42 quicklisp exploits asdf to load systems and their dependeicies. 17:50:44 Sorry that should have been pkhuong 17:50:46 dependencies as well. 17:50:49 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@70.83.76.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:51:49 pkhuong: Ok. So, it quicklisp generally recommended, then? I've just been getting along by downloading stuff manually and using asdf. And it was ignoring my already installed libraries (from Debian) 17:52:02 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-241-41.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:12 Can I get quicklisp to play like with the Debian packages? 17:52:16 it does. 17:52:30 play *nice* 17:52:33 slime doesn't need asdf, but it may load it if it's present 17:53:22 Ok. Does (require 'asdf) load the external copy of asdf if installed, or the builtin interpreter copy? 17:53:45 faheem: it's better to only use quicklisp, without debian packages 17:53:45 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-235-225.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 17:53:58 faheem: and stop calling sbcl "interpreter" 17:54:11 or any other implementation, for that matter 17:54:29 -!- __rahul__ [~rahul@59.178.56.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:54:31 stassats: i had problems when using quicklisp. I got a compiler error. 17:54:40 stassats: ok. what terminology then? 17:54:50 "an implementation" 17:55:03 compiler error when installing a library. and I prefer to use the Debian packages when available. 17:55:11 faheem: have you shared the error with anybody? 17:55:24 faheem: next to no one else does. 17:55:28 stassats: no, i didn't report it. 17:55:31 faheem: it's time to adjust your preferences when it comes to CL code 17:55:47 pkhuong: sorry to hear that. i like binary packages. 17:56:07 faheem: I'm sorry to inform you that debian's lisp packages are not binary. 17:56:08 debian doesn't provide binary packages for CL 17:56:21 stassats: they do. 17:56:34 faheem: interesting belief. 17:56:40 well, this is not true 17:56:50 unless by binary you mean anything digital 17:56:51 stassats: ok, not binary 17:56:59 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.75.149] has joined #lisp 17:57:08 just packages, then. 17:57:17 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:57:37 outdated not well tested packages 17:57:38 By binary I mean a deb, basically. 17:58:06 stassats: The alternative it to pull stuff from cvs repositories. Is that really better? 17:58:17 it -> is 17:58:21 you were just suggested an alternative, quicklisp 17:58:37 but even pulling from CVS is better 17:58:41 stassats: yes, i know. That is what quicklisp does, i think. 17:58:54 not, that is incorrect as well 17:59:05 faheem: no, it's not. It downloads known-working versions from electric cloud. 17:59:31 pkhuong: ok. I only tried using it once. 17:59:37 stassats: ditto 18:00:13 If I get an error with quicklisp, is there somewhere to report it? 18:00:23 faheem: here. 18:00:32 minion: lisppaste. 18:00:32 lisppaste: lisppaste is an IRC bot that runs under the nickname "lisppaste" and can be used (only for the #lisp IRC channel!) at http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp - or http://paste.lisp.org/ for other destinations 18:00:38 the package author. quicklisp mailing list 18:00:42 you can ask here, and then you'll get a direction what to do 18:00:57 Ok. So everyone uses quicklisp? 18:01:00 yes 18:01:04 ok. 18:01:35 There is something else called cl-build, is there not? 18:02:11 well, i don't use it normally, but i'd use it if i didn't need source control repositories 18:02:13 depreacted ~1 year ago. 18:02:16 clbuild uses quicklisp 18:02:31 pkhuong: ok. So use quicklisp then. 18:02:41 faheem: use quicklisp 18:02:54 Ok, Maybe I'll give it another try. But haven't done much with libraries yet. Still a beginner. 18:03:08 H4ns: Ok. 18:03:19 faheem: solid reason to trust the advice of others. 18:03:26 Thanks for the input. 18:03:35 pkhuong: fair enough. 18:04:03 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:06:33 rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 18:07:03 __rahul__ [~rahul@59.178.146.125] has joined #lisp 18:07:26 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has joined #lisp 18:10:17 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:10 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-209-64.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 18:11:14 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:12:01 chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 18:12:42 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:19:53 urandom__ [~user@p54B0E1A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:58 Natch| [~Natch|@178.73.212.230] has joined #lisp 18:19:59 -!- Natch| [~Natch|@178.73.212.230] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:23:47 -!- chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:24:07 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.21.25] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 18:25:30 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.5.25] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 18:26:33 Natch| [~Natch|@178.73.212.230] has joined #lisp 18:28:26 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 18:30:52 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.163.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:51 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:36:40 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@70.83.76.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:37:41 -!- marcoy [~kvirc@cpe-66-65-45-211.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:41:09 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053011057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:46:12 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128159048.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 18:49:06 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-13-228.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:28 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-68.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:57:20 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-192-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:57:28 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-68.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58:15 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-68.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:58:38 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:59:44 zophy [~zophy__@host-18-111-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:47 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-68.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:03:56 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.90.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:04:21 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.65.150] has joined #lisp 19:05:10 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 19:05:20 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:07:26 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:45 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 19:08:53 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 19:11:05 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:00 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 19:25:49 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.229.85] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - 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#lisp 22:02:18 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-226-223.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 22:04:46 If anyone has a few minutes to spare, I have a bug report here - https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/1009267 22:05:28 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-233-039.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:05:35 This bug shows up on my 386 machine, but not on a amd64 machine I tested it on. I'd be interested to know if anyone can reproduce it on 386. 22:05:41 -!- crypto_ [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:05:42 crypto_ [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 22:05:48 -!- crypto_ is now known as z0d 22:06:08 This is for sbcl 22:07:02 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-1-58.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:41 Even my first PC, many years ago, was a 486 22:08:46 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 22:09:13 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:10:53 faheem: Does http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/t_mod.htm explain what you were wondering about MOD in the gmane thread? 22:11:03 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:11:26 faheem: use "x86" when referring to 32bit intel cpus, it avoids confusion 22:12:28 Guthur`: ok. will do. 22:12:55 Bike: It does, thanks. 22:13:32 [SLB] [~slabua@host154-130-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:13:35 I probably should have said 32 bit. Sigh. 22:13:48 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host154-130-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 22:13:48 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 22:14:11 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:15:47 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 22:17:03 If anyone can or cannot reproduce, please feel free to post to the bug report if you wish. 22:17:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:19:49 faheem: have is that variable still available in * or ** or something, perhaps? they contain the result of the previous evaluation in the repl. 22:19:53 faheem: and for the "(declare ((integer 0 most-positive-fixnum) i j))" and "(type (simple-array (double-float 0.0 *) (somefunctionargument))" thing: declaration specifiers aren't evaluated. 22:20:03 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:21:06 also: you say this is ran on a 386 machine, but you're runing a kernel from the 686 series... that's a bit odd 22:21:20 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.29.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:21:33 madnificent: 386 and 686 are "the same" fwiw 22:21:53 H4ns: 686 has more instructions defined, i thought. 22:22:04 madnificent: right. he means 668 22:22:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:22:47 madnificent: i meant x86 or 32 bit. It is actually an Opteron machine from 2007 or so. 22:23:05 ah right... looks like i wasn't thinking about the human aspect being involved as well :) woops. 22:23:23 madnificent: Sorry, didn't follow your comments re "have is that variable..." 22:24:39 faheem: the repl holds your previous evaluations and such and such. C-c M-o clears it, i think (but i don't know if it clears * and ** and *** also. Anyway, if you still have a reference to the results somewhere, the garbage collector will not try to garbage collect it (and if it would, you'd be in serious trouble) 22:24:47 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@70.83.76.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:25:23 Bike: not really following your comments either. Are you saying those declarations are useless? 22:26:23 madnificent: I don't think i have a reference to the results anywhere. As I noted, on a 64 bit machine, these tests ran without problems. 22:26:45 Exactly the same code, exactly the same commands, same version of software and os. 22:26:55 faheem: and the setup is the same with both systems? so both of them ran in emacs/slime? 22:27:14 madnificent: no, command line sbcl 1.0.57 on Debian squeeze 22:27:27 as instructed by Nikodemus. 22:27:36 faheem: and that's the 64bit machine? or the 32bit one? 22:27:42 who didn't want slime. and recorded via dribble 22:27:48 chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 22:27:57 -!- Natch| [~Natch|@178.73.212.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27:57 madnificent the transcript is for the 32 bit machine 22:28:06 which showed problmes 22:28:12 *problems* 22:28:53 Natch| [~Natch|@178.73.212.230] has joined #lisp 22:29:13 on 64 bit it ran without error. well, the heap got exhausted for a high value, but i don't know if that can be called a bug. 22:29:35 ah well, looks like an implementation bug. i'm not up for the task. 22:29:57 madnificent: can you reproduce? 22:30:13 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-209-64.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 22:30:28 one odd thing is that Debian unstable for some reason does not have 1.0.57 for x86. 22:30:40 the build failed it seems, but I could build it on my machine. 22:31:01 So it is a self-compiled version. However, the build does run self tests. 22:31:15 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:32:55 i don't have x86 machines 22:33:00 madnificent: ok 22:33:09 well, i don't have any with a 32bit linux os on them 22:33:16 my guess is nikodemus wasn't using 32 bit either 22:33:44 probably not many people using 32 bit any more 22:34:59 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 22:35:23 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:30 faheem, when you declare something the compiler gets it just as it is. somefunctionargument and most-positive-fixnum are seen as symbols, rather than the values they evaluate to. 22:37:03 -!- chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:37:25 I just build a 32-bit Debian box. Feel free to send me a minimal test-case and desired versions. 22:38:38 ChibaPet: The info is in the bug report. Do you want the information differently? If you download nik.lisp from the bug report, then you just need to run 22:39:10 my netbook is 32bit 22:39:15 (compile-file "nik.lisp") (load *) (main 10000) to show the bug 22:39:18 (it is nearly dead and will be replaced within a week or two) 22:39:20 https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/1009267 ? 22:39:33 ChibaPet: yes 22:39:40 I'll give it a run when I get back home. 22:39:42 ChibaPet: see the transcript. 22:39:55 ChibaPet: ok. you could post to the tracker if you want 22:40:00 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:40:01 Will do. 22:40:06 ChibaPet: thanks 22:40:22 what makes you think it's a bug? 22:40:36 Ralith: 32 bit doesn't seem that popular any longer 22:41:05 lichtblau: (gc :full t) doesn't clean up. Looks like a bug to me. 22:41:18 it's a conservative GC, it always "leaks" 22:41:19 Assuming anyone else can reproduce it. 22:41:27 fe[nl]ix: tell that to ARM 22:41:29 er 22:41:29 faheem: 22:41:30 I'm not saying that it _isn't_ a bug. Maybe it's leaking for than it should. 22:41:57 Ralith: well, for desktop work 22:42:01 sorry, ... more than it should. But just because it leaks a little doesn't necessarily imply a bug. 22:42:27 lichtblau: I don't know anything about GCs, really. But I hope the developers consider it a bug. 22:42:33 -!- ghast` [~user@host250.190-30-150.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:42:34 More like a design basis accident. :-) 22:42:53 Because it basically makes sbcl unusable for large computations imo 22:43:03 faheem: is that a useful qualification? 22:43:09 faheem: for _some_ large computations 22:43:11 bah, run PowerPC then. gencgc is exact there. 22:43:22 i don't get these problems for amd64 22:43:25 -!- egp_ [~egp_@188.168.145.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:26 faheem: i use it for "large" computations and it suits me well. 22:43:31 18:43 < H4ns> faheem: i use it for "large" computations and it suits me well. 22:43:37 oops, sorry 22:43:46 H4ns: are you using 32 bit? 22:44:02 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 22:44:09 faheem: and in any case, large means that i need more than a few gigabytes of ram, so i use a suitable (64 bit) platform for that. 22:44:14 Ralith : Dunno. 22:44:26 H4ns: fair enough 22:44:29 faheem: it's conservative on x86 and x86-64 in basically the same fashion, but that fashion is random. 22:45:10 lichtblau: ok. conservative means the gc can lose track of the garbage? 22:45:22 Hopefully someone will implement precise on x86-64 at some point. Depending on how that's done exactly, it might be backportable to x86 easily or not. 22:46:02 lichtblau: precise on x86-64 for sbcl? 22:46:10 egp_ [~egp_@164.215.88.224] has joined #lisp 22:46:11 faheem: no, it means that integers on the stack that "look like" pointers might temporary prevent the (seemingly) pointed to objects from being collected. 22:47:03 lichtblau: how temporary is temporary? in my example (gc) just fails. see the end of the transcript 22:47:13 at that point, there is nothing else going on. 22:47:35 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:47:38 faheem: i cannot reproduce your problem 22:48:03 faheem: "1.0.57.26-25d55ff" on ubuntu 32 bit 22:48:21 H4ns: bummer 22:48:35 faheem: are you investigating this because you are running into problems in a real application, or are you trying to see whether the gc works? 22:48:37 -!- egp_ [~egp_@164.215.88.224] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:50 H4ns: it was just a test example. 22:49:15 faheem: i can assure you: sbcl works very well 22:49:31 H4ns: are you using the Ubuntu sbcl package? 22:49:40 faheem: certainly not. 22:49:50 faheem: if you really care, write to launchpad, not #lisp, because nikodemus is the one who fixed similar symptoms recently, and hence might possibly care, and IIANM, he's not currently here in the channel 22:50:01 faheem: i use quicklisp, and i install the lisps that i use from their upstream sources. 22:50:20 I guess I could try with a non-Debian sbcl 22:50:36 egp_ [~egp_@164.215.95.116] has joined #lisp 22:50:58 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:25 lichtblau: I already wrote my findings in the bug report. Just wondered if anyone else could reproduce. 22:51:34 I hope there is not something wrong with my machine. 22:52:09 faheem: why do you worry so much? can't you just assume that things are in order and work on something real? 22:53:11 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:53:12 H4ns: not sure what you mean. my test example was an example of something real. 22:53:28 That kind of worry is legitimate. Starting off with something that will break as you intend to run it seems reasonably worrisome. 22:53:30 H4ns: so, the example ran all the way through, with no problems? 22:54:08 faheem: yes. i could run the example and gc, and i always ended up with the same 40 mb heap that i started off with. 22:54:27 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-68.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Bye] 22:54:28 H4ns: Ok, Thanks for taking the time. 22:54:53 Maybe I'll try a different version of sbcl to eliminate some packaging weirdness. 22:55:12 faheem: i had to gc twice sometimes to actually see the memory usage go down. 22:55:12 I mean, 1.0.57 but from another source. 22:55:40 H4ns: that sounds reasonable. what version of Debian? 22:55:54 sorry, ubuntu? and kernel? 22:56:06 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:24 -!- b_ [~chatzilla@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:56:27 faheem: ubuntu 11.10, kernel 3.0.0-12 22:56:30 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:56:33 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:56:41 H4ns: ok. quite recent then. 22:56:56 You can comment on the bug report as a data point if you want. 22:57:02 faheem: also unlikely to have influence on gc performance i think. 22:57:06 faheem: you can do that. 22:57:27 H4ns: true, those things don't seem relevant. 22:57:51 H4ns: would prefer not to comment for someone else. might get stuff wrong. 22:58:35 faheem: try reproducing the problem with sbcl from git. 22:58:48 faheem: if you can, update the bug. if you can't, update it as well. 22:58:50 H4ns: ok. I can try that 22:59:06 H4ns: huh? 22:59:07 faheem: you should. it is you who sees an issue. 22:59:34 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 23:00:03 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:00:32 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 23:01:07 H4ns: Very well. What should I say - H4ns cannot reproduce with 32 bit Ubuntu ubuntu 11.10, kernel 3.0.0-12 with sbcl from quicklisp? "i could run the example and gc, and i always ended up with the same 40 mb heap that i started off with." 23:01:15 Is that sufficient? 23:01:21 faheem: if you want to write that? 23:01:26 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 23:01:30 H4ns on #lisp that is. 23:01:44 H4ns: if it meets with your approval 23:01:47 faheem: _or_ you could install sbcl from git and try to see if you can reproduce the problem yourself or not. 23:01:57 faheem: it is a data point, not a confession 23:02:00 H4ns: i can do that as well 23:02:17 faheem: that is what you should do. try. it. yourself. 23:02:51 faheem: you should not try to drag others into your case unless you are sure that you're not dealing with a broken environment. 23:03:32 faheem: using the most recent available sbcl version that you've compiled yourself is a very good way to move forward with your issue. you can do it. 23:03:43 <|3b|> faheem: out of curiosity, what does (sb-ext:dynamic-space-size) return on the failing sbcl? 23:03:44 Clearly he's willing to do a lot of legwork himself. It's reasonable to ask others to report their experiences if they can reproduce the issue. Probably less reasonable to request reports of non-reproduction. :P 23:03:49 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:04:01 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 23:04:30 ChibaPet: all i'm asking is that he tries it with the latest version himself. 23:04:38 -!- pnq [~nick@AC818375.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:04:51 |3b| 536870912 23:04:56 The default, I believe. 23:05:19 ChibaPet: because as the reporter, he'll be the person who'll have to deal with further communications on the issue. i don't want to be in the loop, as i have just tried to reproduce it as a favour. 23:05:20 -!- urandom__ [~user@p54B0E1A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:05:40 wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:30 Sure, sure. And, random note, since he's doing this on Debian, positive confirmation of a bug should include a Debian bug report as well. faheem: If you can show that it's fixed in a newer version, the maintainer in Debian will likely work towards backporting the fix. 23:06:35 ChibaPet: if you can't reproduce, email me (if possible). faheem at faheem dot info 23:06:45 faheem: git clone git@github.com:sbcl/sbcl ; cd sbcl; sh make.sh --fance ; sh install.sh 23:06:57 ChibaPet: if you can, then post to the bug. 23:07:03 s/fance/fancy 23:07:10 faheem: I'll be a couple hours before I can access the box in question, but I'll email you with results as soon as I have them. 23:07:13 H4ns: ok 23:07:29 H4ns: thanks 23:07:48 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.32.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:07:49 If I cannot reproduce with the git version, I'll update the bug 23:08:10 faheem: sbcl will be installed in /usr/local. it is probably best to uninstall the debian version after that to avoid any confusion. 23:08:17 bbl, will send some email 23:08:26 H4ns: Good point. 23:08:48 faheem: and if you're not able to reproduce the problem, you'll have a nice version of sbcl that you can use for your further expliorations of cl :) 23:09:15 H4ns: True. I just it isn't my machine that is the problem. 23:09:55 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:35 Is it possible to use sbcl without installing it to /usr/local, or is that non-standard? Different question, does a local installation of sbcl put files in a lot of different places? 23:10:51 that should have been, I *just* hope 23:10:55 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:13 faheem: it goes in /usr/local/bin and /usr/local/lib/sbcl i think 23:11:26 faheem: you can choose another prefix. see INSTALL 23:11:29 H4ns: Sounds good. Thanks. 23:11:32 H4ns: ok 23:12:04 Ok, goodbye all. Thanks for the feedback and advice. 23:12:11 'nite 23:12:28 <|3b|> you can run it from the build directory without installing it also, with run-sbcl.sh in the build dir 23:13:07 -!- Guthur` [~user@212.183.128.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:26 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:34 -- 23:15:24 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:49 centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-158-53.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:51 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-103.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:42 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-103.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:53 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-115-173.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:32:16 DDR_ [~chatzilla@d66-183-113-135.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:00 -!- DDR_ is now known as DDR 23:34:20 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:34:20 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 23:39:10 ignas__ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 23:42:00 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-158-53.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:43:05 chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 23:46:33 -!- agumonkey [~agu@197.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:46:46 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 23:47:05 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:49:20 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:50:39 -!- chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:52:08 chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 23:56:10 -!- drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has quit [Quit: derp] 23:56:24 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]