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00:49:12 -!- pnq [~nick@AC816554.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:50:29 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-2cb4e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:50:29 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:50:29 -!- __main__ [~main@67.180.22.241] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:50:29 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:50:55 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:59 SHODAN [~shozan@c-2cb4e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:54:59 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 00:54:59 __main__ [~main@67.180.22.241] has joined #lisp 00:54:59 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 00:58:25 -!- KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:54 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:56 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-164-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:02:13 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:04:53 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c2dc6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:58 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c032d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:21:19 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:25:20 kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-249.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:25:34 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-82-247.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:25 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-82-247.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:54 KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 01:34:55 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:42:13 -!- yates [~user@nc-71-48-9-61.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.96.1] 01:42:31 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.54.109] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 01:50:26 aesundstrom [~aesundstr@cpe-74-73-233-110.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:51:21 pnq [~nick@AC817B10.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:51:57 -!- aesundstrom [~aesundstr@cpe-74-73-233-110.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 02:01:29 sds_ [~sam@cl-pat-tr.clearspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:01:42 -!- sds_ [~sam@cl-pat-tr.clearspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:09:00 ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 02:09:19 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-201-170.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:12:28 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 02:21:52 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-55-102.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:23:55 corni__ [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has joined #lisp 02:25:07 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:25:31 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 02:27:32 -!- corni_ [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:28:00 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-93-2.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 02:28:38 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 02:31:34 ezakimak: I plan to, but got to decouple a few things before it, ie the definer library, the flexible copy-instance needs to be taken out of mishmash of cl-maxlib etc.. Coz big part of my qt utils is MVC framework for building dialogs that can edit arbtirary CLOS trees of objects, with full support for clone/reset/undo type stuff 02:32:36 leo2007 [~leo@221.219.113.118] has joined #lisp 02:37:19 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:46 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:42:40 interesting 02:43:16 *ezakimak* wonders how difficult it would be to use it and follow the pyjs approach 02:43:32 pyjs? 02:43:33 Spion [~spion@46.217.23.135] has joined #lisp 02:43:44 -!- Spion [~spion@46.217.23.135] has quit [Changing host] 02:43:44 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 02:44:11 a python compiler that targets both qt desktop apps and web via js 02:44:34 yeah, found it 02:44:51 and it seems to target only JS, just using a prebuilt wrapper 02:44:59 you can do so with parenscript and commonqt 02:45:14 right, i assume using qt's js engine and html renderer? 02:45:35 yes. 02:45:56 kindof cheating (desktop app == emdedded browser essentiall), but if user's can't tell... 02:46:02 s/'// 02:46:06 you can often tell 02:46:36 though worst offenders are the typical applications on phonegap, especially on android... 02:46:42 almost no point now, since js in browers have access to local storage 02:46:59 because the vendor usually just repackages the iOS version, which is jarring horribly with Android UI 02:47:03 might as well just write it in js than go the pyjs route 02:47:06 __dict__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has joined #lisp 02:47:17 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:47:20 ezakimak: JS still doesn't have any sensible desktop apis 02:47:27 mainly thanks to security issues 02:47:48 no, but for a simple app that just needs a little local storage it can work just fine 02:48:04 one good example is tiddly wiki 02:48:47 tiddly wiki didn't use local storage, though 02:48:54 it predates HTML5 and such 02:48:55 yes it does, always has 02:49:11 ezakimak: nope. It's older than the first draft of localstorage :) 02:49:22 oh, you mean "localstorage" is actually a specific feature name 02:49:27 yes 02:49:32 i just mean in general, it uses local storage 02:49:52 ezakimak: nope. TiddlyWiki modifies itself, then asks you to "save page to file" 02:50:15 yes, but it can do it automagically for you once you grant the permissions 02:50:27 ezakimak: maybe in *some* new browsers 02:50:39 it's worked in ff for years 02:50:45 (filesystem api, especially with write support, is still rare) 02:50:58 ezakimak: probably mozilla-specific api 02:51:14 and ie for nearly as long (also probably an ie-specific api there) 02:51:40 i've used it going on 4 years 02:51:43 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:51:56 pretty handy little tool, esp. if you use mptw 02:51:56 hmmm 02:51:58 interesting 02:52:22 the auto-tagging mptw adds is invaluable (cross-references everything as you go) 02:59:37 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:02:41 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:21 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 03:10:26 hello #lisp community. I have made a channel called #lisp-lab , sort of like the math lab or the spanish lab at school, etc. where people who are new (or relatively new) to lisp may ask and discuss stuff and where "more advanced students" can randomly be there to help with (for example) understanding lisp terminology, especially where a word is used in a different signification than they might be used to in other languages (macro, etc) 03:11:12 i hereby volunteer to answer such questions to the best of my ability, and perhaps others could do so. 03:11:41 putting new people together who are (for example) coming from Python or from whatever, can say to the next guy "oh it was like this in Python" and share that 03:12:07 plus it would take some weight from newbie questions off of this 300+ people channel where such things as lisp internals and spec issues are deeply discussed. 03:12:23 afk for a few minutes. 03:15:17 There's already #lispcafe and #clnoobs. Was it really necessary? 03:15:34 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-162-52-49.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:57 dto: check http://cliki.net/IRC and http://cliki.net/Getting+Started 03:17:16 haha. 03:17:52 somehow i missed them. 03:20:06 do enough people in here know about those channels to direct IRC question askers to there? 03:20:59 hmm... I just tend to answer here if I feel that I can provide coherent answer 03:22:27 i'd like to link to #lispcafe on lispgames.org 03:24:05 smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has joined #lisp 03:35:17 i'm just saying, from 2003 noob to 2010 intermediate level lisper, ive asked zillions of questions here without being directed to #lispcafe that i can recall 03:38:01 what's #lispcafe? 03:38:46 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-92-114.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 03:39:15 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-nfkkpncemhjruero] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:44:49 cfdm [~user@114.205.86.94] has joined #lisp 03:47:22 _nix00 [~Adium@114.92.124.7] has joined #lisp 03:48:30 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@114.92.124.7] has left #lisp 03:49:23 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:48 -!- leo2007 [~leo@221.219.113.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:55:49 #lispcafe is for non-lispy discussions amongst lispers. 03:56:17 If people complain here that you're out of topic, then #lispcafe is where you should go. 03:56:47 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 03:57:18 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:41 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.64.161] has joined #lisp 03:58:21 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-92-114.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 04:01:04 -!- vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 04:06:19 -!- KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:26 pjb: then perhaps my channel IS necessary, since 1. #lisp-lab was about newbie questions on lisp, not non-lisp discussions among lispers, and #2 clnoobs is specific to Common Lisp and my proposal for #lisp-lab was not. 04:07:44 this can be concluded from my description above actually, so your question now puzzles me 04:08:33 is it a koan? 04:09:49 dto: then ok. Add it to cliki.net/IRC 04:10:08 ok. thanks. 04:10:12 And if somebody asks about picolisp or newlisp, we'll direct them there. ;-) 04:10:30 hah. 04:18:57 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.160.195] has joined #lisp 04:19:17 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 04:21:07 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has joined #lisp 04:21:18 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.160.195] has quit [Client Quit] 04:22:33 -!- cfdm [~user@114.205.86.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:25:48 leo2007 [~leo@221.219.116.142] has joined #lisp 04:28:36 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1471.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:33:25 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-249.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:40:03 -!- pnq [~nick@AC817B10.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:43:37 -!- fukushim_ [~fukushima@z128.124-44-151.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44:02 fukushima [~fukushima@z128.124-44-151.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:44:38 pnpuff [~uu@host31-17-dynamic.12-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 04:44:38 -!- pnpuff [~uu@host31-17-dynamic.12-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 04:44:38 pnpuff [~uu@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 04:45:31 -!- b3gott3n [~dwhite@184-8-167-106.dr03.blfd.wv.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:49:30 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-25-97.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:56:32 Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has joined #lisp 04:56:51 -!- Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has left #lisp 04:57:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@221.219.116.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:57:44 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-103.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:39 Good morning/afternoon/evening/night 04:58:56 b3gott3n [~dwhite@184-8-167-106.dr03.blfd.wv.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:39 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-108-80-231-20.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:42 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:03:56 pjb: i'm literally getting a lambda tattoo next to my other greek symbol 05:04:21 as well as one other ideogram, for now 05:05:18 For example, that would have been better on topic in #lispcafe. 05:05:37 lol 05:05:43 Does anyone talk in #lispcafe? 05:06:04 pjb right but it's LISP 05:06:37 #lispcafe is for lispers, not only about LISP. :-) 05:07:47 i bet it would heal in time for the 28th if i got it tomorrow 05:10:05   ? 05:11:10 yess 05:13:33 hopefully i wont get any half-life dweebs saying Hey cool half-life logo 05:16:16 wztian [~quassel@119.41.24.208] has joined #lisp 05:18:55 kwa1977 [~kwa@CPE-121-214-126-60.lnse4.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:19:58 heh 05:19:58 -!- cpc26 [~Adium@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:20:53 unfortunately, you probably will 05:42:31 -!- kwa1977 [~kwa@CPE-121-214-126-60.lnse4.lon.bigpond.net.au] has left #lisp 05:44:33 -!- RenJuan 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[~mommer@mnhm-590c2dc6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:47:11 In a few days, I'll have a copy of CLTL2 to complement my copy of CLTL1! 06:55:29 Good night, everyone 06:55:30 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-103.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has left #lisp 06:56:28 shifty [~user@114-198-39-93.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:58:15 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:59:28 edgar-rft [~me@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:00:59 -!- EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:07:58 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.88.219] has joined #lisp 07:15:25 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:15:48 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:23 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:30 ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] 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no one said single word 09:30:05 *maxm-* would rather endure toxicity here, even though watching stassats/zhivago skewer an exuberant potential lisper is disheartening 09:30:17 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:31:31 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-238-15.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:51 maxm-: fwiw, the story is that I redirected a couple people with annoyingly low SNR there a couple years ago. 09:32:48 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.41.120] has joined #lisp 09:34:41 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:39:39 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:46:11 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.21.79] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:47:04 nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-136-240-172.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 09:51:56 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-64.netcologne.de] has 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madmuppet006 [~user@122-62-124-247.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:57:18 I have been trying to write my own and procedure .. any chance of someone checking what I have so far? constructive critisim welcome http://pastebin.com/Q8jWd6NG 11:57:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:00:02 can anyone suggest portable a way to prevent a lisp program to be started twice (or more) times simultaneously? 12:00:36 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:01:10 probably one of the simpliest ways is to try to open a socket 12:01:45 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A41A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:52 madmuppet006: 1- consider that CL:AND is NOT a "procedure" or function. 12:02:01 madmuppet006: 2- write your specifications. 12:02:39 madmuppet006: do not call defun inside a function: it doesn't do what you think it does. 12:03:03 antonv: yes. 12:03:34 antonv: there's no good reason to prevent any program to be run by several processes at the same time. 12:04:23 pjb: this program create produces files on FS, then processes the files, then removes them 12:04:35 pjb: two processes will intefere in the file system 12:05:10 Any other process can interfer in the file system. 12:05:14 You should find another solution. 12:06:00 smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has joined #lisp 12:06:03 mobydick [~textual@d122-105-157-17.adl801.sa.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:06:04 pjb: this program will intefere for sure, 100% 12:06:20 Guthur [~user@host86-147-203-212.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.58.24] has joined #lisp 12:07:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.58.24] has quit [Changing host] 12:07:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:09:51 pjb:any chance of expanding on what you said earlier? 12:10:44 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 12:11:00 madmuppet006: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129802 12:12:11 cool thanks .. havent got round to loops yet .. 12:13:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:13:42 madmuppet006: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129802#1 12:13:55 ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:15:46 Hi all! Is there any way to upgrade Clozure CL in Ubuntu from the command line, from my current version (1.7) to the current release (1.8)? 12:16:19 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-136-240-172.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:16:29 When I try to install via Subversion, it tells me there is already a working copy for a different URL, so do I have to remove the package and install the new version? 12:16:55 pjb:gonna have to study ..:p thanks for the help 12:16:55 surely you can just update to the newest release? 12:17:13 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-232-200.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:13 mobydick: the ccl executable is a script, you can edit it or have a modified copy earlier in your PATH. 12:17:57 mobydick: you can run ccl directly from the svn checkout directory. It's even better thus, since that gives you easy access to the sources. Just modify the ccl script to go to that directory. 12:20:48 mobydick: of course, you can uninstall the distribution provided package; they're not often useful. 12:22:21 so does that mean you run/load ccl directly from the clozure server? 12:22:28 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:22:45 or by "checkout directory" do you mean on my local machine? 12:25:15 su - ; mkdir -p /usr/local/src ; cd /usr/local/src/ ; svn co http://svn.clozure.com/publicsvn/openmcl/release/1.8/linuxx86/ccl ; cp ccl/scripts/ccl /usr/local/bin ; chmod 755 /usr/local/bin/ccl ; ccl 12:25:45 so yes, the checkout directory is the directory created by the svn checkout command. 12:29:58 -!- smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:32:25 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 12:36:28 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-13-228.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:44 ehmm... no 12:37:03 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@85-127-93-72.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:37:31 sorry, wrong channel. 12:38:33 sweet thanks 12:39:47 fantazo [~fantazo@85-127-93-72.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 12:41:39 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:44:02 terpri [~terpri@137.Red-79-154-74.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:09 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@85-127-93-72.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:45:47 fantazo [~fantazo@85-127-93-72.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 12:45:54 cpc26 [~Adium@50.55.141.139] has joined #lisp 12:45:54 -!- cpc26 [~Adium@50.55.141.139] has quit [Changing host] 12:45:54 cpc26 [~Adium@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 12:49:35 -!- hiyosi [~hiyosi@102.124.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:51:33 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@85-127-93-72.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:51:39 dto [~dto@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:39 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:03:41 hiyosi [~hiyosi@102.124.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:06:26 i have this evil idea to work with my friend who is specializing in natural language analysis, to write a Lisp AI that generates astroturfed identities and opinions ("i'm Raj Pranesh and I work at , and this is what says to me about innovation on principle, and yeah i'm totally going to pledge on Kickstarter after I write this.... UPDATE: pledged :)"... butfor a 13:06:45 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:08:39 could be usefull... 13:10:51 my previous message was a hoax. 13:11:23 dto: you mean it was metaastroturfing? 13:11:25 Good. 13:11:29 and On topic! 13:11:39 :) 13:11:51 antonv: take a look at libunique 13:13:17 the eventual open source release of the astroturfing library can be called libYbother 13:14:14 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 13:17:56 fe[nl]ix: thanks (linux only though and C, not 100% what I need) 13:18:56 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:46 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 13:26:42 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-182-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:27:58 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:09 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-132-64.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:28:55 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-64.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:28:57 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-182-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:31:14 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-182-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:34:46 dto: way behind on it 13:35:35 maxm-: what do you mean 13:35:40 on what 13:35:51 dto: thats why I view all the "analyze twittosphere mood about stock XYZ" type projects with huge suspicion.. The old penny stock pump-n-dumpers cloud not have asked for larger gift 13:35:52 did someone already propose this and get funded? 13:36:14 oh i see. 13:37:13 now instead of changing ISP's monthly, they simply send millions of tweets about "XYZ about to explode" from the botnets, and the "new exciting startup" analyzing twitter data picks it up, and amplifies the publicity 13:37:24 dto: people already doing it for ages 13:37:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:38:12 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-139-202.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:52 dto: example. Go to your twitter client, search for "common lisp". Watch thousand upon thousands of tweets by Hotchick123 type accounts with bimbo avatars posting millions of links to obscure tech books, to work the amazon referral scam. I'm not sure of the mechanics, but there is no way these are not botted 13:42:43 hmm actually amazon may have closed the hole, I could hardly find any now 13:43:01 was really a sea of them just a months or so ago 13:43:10 mel0on [~user@h-72-75.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 13:43:17 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-139-202.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:43:29 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-182-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:45:46 i think it is happening unintentionally with light table et al, in that it's a sort of diluted tincture of another epoch-defining HN megastory. the light table guy's preliminary clojurescript lookalike demo was out in like a week (iirc not yet called light table). i thought it illustrated perfectly how one can contrive these demos to utterly blow specific minds once you're aware from their HN comments that they're ignorant of XYZ because 13:45:50 maxm-: yes 13:45:53 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:46:09 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 13:46:40 1. identify people who think bret victor invented interactive software with immediate feedback 13:48:50 2. identify other features that will wow people who due to #1 have never heard of xerox parc, symbolics, bell labs, i.e. people who think all innovation comes from small startups of today instead of research departments at the giants of the past (xerox, at&t, Digital were not startups.) 13:49:50 3. construct nice demo with nice blog 13:49:56 dto: example of such bot account, https://twitter.com/#!/param4710 13:50:14 4. keep HN story alive by seeding with periodic updates on KS $$ 13:50:27 5. pack bag for california----bring condoms 13:50:43 :) 13:51:02 man and all these days I thought dto was humorless :-) 13:51:02 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for and all these days I thought dto was humorless :-). 13:51:14 light table reminds me of a vaccuum cleaner that has sucked up its electric cord 13:51:31 ah cmon, guy just beat you at marketing 13:51:35 meta-vacuum cleaner 13:51:44 specbot: find what? 13:52:17 "in the and _all_beer is just colored water!. The difference is **advertising**!" 13:52:26 clhs funnyp 13:52:27 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for funnyp. 13:52:40 i am humorless. utterly 13:53:12 man you 13:53:13 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for you. 13:53:24 oh 13:53:27 :) 13:53:33 i misread specbot as a person 13:53:47 specbot: say hello! 13:54:22 maxm-: :) i refuse to fly as a protest against TSA. i've never set foot on an airplane. 13:54:36 [6502] [5ea4a95a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.164.169.90] has joined #lisp 13:54:47 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:56:01 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-249.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:56:22 -!- mobydick [~textual@d122-105-157-17.adl801.sa.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 13:56:26 dto: I think there are better ways to protest  like fly without ID and opt out of the scanners. TSA people get really uncomfortable with the frisking. 13:56:34 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-182-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:57:31 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:58:51 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:00:19 no way. the TSA institutionalizes routine sex crime. i would not submit and since i do not wish to go to jail for assaulting a tsa agent, i decline to fly. 14:00:44 dnolen [~user@12.130.123.197] has joined #lisp 14:01:42 dto: go by land to canada and fly from there? 14:02:22 i dunno, don't they do something similar at the border now? 14:02:49 dto: pick a border that is out of the way? 14:02:55 *border crossing 14:03:20 that might look odd. 14:04:19 dto: I pretty much wrote visiting USA off. My character makes it more and more certain that I will somehow get the conga at the border 14:04:27 hah. 14:04:53 Including loudly asking why they are irradiating passengers with unsafe equipement 14:05:17 did you see that story about supposedly israeli airport security interrogating an american born woman with an arab name and forcing her to login to her gmail account ? 14:06:13 nope 14:06:15 The only place I ever went through one of those body scanners was at Schiphol, when the TSA guy tricked me into thinking it wasn't actually one. 14:06:17 but I'd refuse 14:06:27 sellout: Schiphol has one? 14:06:48 the only ones I've seen are the infrared ones 14:07:13 OT alarm 14:07:18 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 14:07:25 I think the "fast lane" had some more detailed ones 14:07:29 heh, true 14:08:20 will you please step through our decorative arch? 14:09:03 dto: please stop 14:09:03 i wonder if that would be a violation of googles terms of service. maybe they can retaliate by upping the resolution of certain areas of google maps. 14:09:16 sorry, i'll go away. 14:09:48 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-114-65.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:44 dto: do stay, but discuss lisp 14:12:12 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.242.121] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:13:41 iLogical [~iLogical@187.112.156.214] has joined #lisp 14:18:45 dto: this would have been good on #lispcafe, but it's bad here! 14:18:52 -!- [6502] [5ea4a95a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.164.169.90] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:18:54 dto: please, choose your channel wisely! 14:22:31 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-182-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:23:32 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA30666.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:25:52 Blkt [~user@82.84.172.197] has joined #lisp 14:26:52 -!- leth [~user@fsf/member/leth] has quit [Quit: going away] 14:30:07 vmmenon [~vmmenon@CPE-121-215-75-151.lnse1.pie.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 14:30:18 Lisp. a digital frontier. 14:32:48 -!- dnolen [~user@12.130.123.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:35:55 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:43:45 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 14:45:35 dnolen [~user@12.130.123.197] has joined #lisp 14:47:29 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:49:41 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:34 where we employ topic-based profiling 14:54:53 p_l|backup: You can opt out of the invasive/dangerous screening. I do so regularly. 14:55:24 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-3-87.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:47 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-25-97.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:57:59 -!- vmmenon [~vmmenon@CPE-121-215-75-151.lnse1.pie.bigpond.net.au] has left #lisp 15:00:50 -!- lobo_d_b is now known as caroo 15:01:25 -!- caroo is now known as lobo_d_b 15:03:42 ChibaPet: that only gives you pat down instead of irradiation, not a free pass from the "harass those guys for several hours at security checkpoint" list 15:04:25 It's not a patdown, it's an invasive physical search with inappropriate contact. But there are ways around it. They are inconsistent and lazy and that can be harnessed. 15:06:03 ah. I'm too blinded by how european, even the most anal-retentive (british) checks work, then 15:08:20 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 15:09:30 I've not experienced them but my impression from listening to others is that they're handled far better. 15:10:26 ChibaPet: metal detector + classic "weapon check" pat down if it complains, baggage goes through X-ray 15:11:04 lony [~user@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:11:17 Like what it used to be here. That seems preferable. Anyway, apologies for being off topic. I'll keep what should be parenthetical comments elsewhere. :P 15:11:28 -!- lony [~user@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 15:11:32 some UK airports have backscatter scanners, afaik, but those are for unmanned checkpoints (you go to it, present your passport to machine, get scanned, get out 15:13:25 dto: perhaps we could patch erc, to analyse what you write, and send it to the right channel automatically :-) 15:13:28 ccomendant [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ccomendant] has joined #lisp 15:13:48 ha. 15:13:58 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 15:13:59 i use pidgin. 15:20:50 I have a hard time grasping the nuances of abstact pathnames 15:21:26 If I have a pathname, say, #P"/foo/bar/", and I want to append another subdirectory to this, how should it be done? 15:21:54 loke: The jury's still out deciding whether that's a bug or a feature. 15:21:59 I.e. I want something like (APPEND-SUBDIR #P"/foo/bar/" "hello/") --> #P"/foo/bar/hello/" 15:22:22 Is it possible without going into platform-speific territory? 15:23:49 -!- cpc26 [~Adium@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:24:28 loke: have you tried appending to pathname-directory? 15:25:41 pkhuong: Nope 15:26:28 Is it SETF'able/ 15:26:31 ? 15:27:16 Hmm, seems like it 15:27:22 woohoo. it works! 15:27:24 Thanks 15:27:47 loke: read the spec. Functions aren't accessors. Build a new pathname with that directory list. 15:28:20 I didn't actually realise that these thing could be manipulated. I thought they were there for reading only, and the magic was in the function MERGE-PATHNAMES. Now I realise why nothing seemed to work. :-) 15:29:00 loke: they are read-only. 15:29:47 Ah yes. Sorry... I was NCONC'ing in my test 15:32:56 OK, sorry. Reading further I realise I still don't get it 15:33:18 The spec actually doesn't seems to say that NCONC'ing the result of PATHNAME-DIRECTORY is OK 15:33:27 so I'm still not sure of the proper way to do this 15:33:37 Call make-pathname. 15:35:12 ahhh 15:35:20 OK, I get it now. Thanks again 15:39:29 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-13-228.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:41:04 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:41:26 dto [~dto@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:35 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:47 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0107.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:42:34 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-169-16-50.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:43:08 -!- hiyosi [~hiyosi@102.124.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:02 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-115.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:49:05 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 15:49:40 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.41.55] has joined #lisp 15:50:11 Greetings, lispers! 15:50:47 lony [~user@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:51:39 -!- lony [~user@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 15:57:04 smithzv [~smithzv@99-71-111-56.lightspeed.whtnil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:27 arborist [~arborist@e182016098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:07 daem0n [~yaargh@host-78-145-143-116.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:07 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@host-78-145-143-116.as13285.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:02:07 daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 16:02:09 hiyosi [~hiyosi@102.124.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 16:02:53 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:03:21 lol 16:05:04 Why? 16:05:07 n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@37.79.42.76] has joined #lisp 16:07:32 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 16:07:39 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@37.79.42.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:08:30 argantonio [~tony@5ac8c1c2.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:04 -!- argantonio [~tony@5ac8c1c2.bb.sky.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:09:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:10:28 lony [~user@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:10:39 -!- lony [~user@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 16:10:59 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 16:11:40 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:56 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:13:23 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:14:08 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:14:14 does anyone have a recommendation/opinion for a lisp package for postgresql? 16:15:04 blackwolf: postmodern. Absolutely. 16:16:18 sykopomp: thx - was just looking at that. 16:17:20 blackwolf: cl-perec is worth a look too. 16:18:09 luis: k - will do, thx 16:18:23 nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has joined #lisp 16:20:43 blackwolf: but Postmodern is probably a safer choice. It's got documentation, for starters. 16:20:52 -!- dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:22:22 cfdm [~user@114.205.86.94] has joined #lisp 16:23:32 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:23:34 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:25:43 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-222-125.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:25:46 dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #lisp 16:29:30 LL Decade 16:30:14 -!- dnolen [~user@12.130.123.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:30:44 r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.0.53] has joined #lisp 16:30:47 hiyosi: ? 16:31:08 sorry. mistook. 16:33:09 the bad news is that's his password, the good news is that none of us know how to enter those characters 16:34:47 slyrus_: none? :> 16:36:58 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.41.55] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:36:59 a 16:37:07 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.41.55] has joined #lisp 16:37:14 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 16:37:42 vantage|home [~vantage@230.52-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 16:40:25 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.41.55] has quit [Client Quit] 16:40:45 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.41.55] has joined #lisp 16:44:41 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:57 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 16:45:39 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@230.52-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 16:47:10 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.41.55] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:47:23 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.41.55] has joined #lisp 16:48:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:49:54 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-92-114.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 16:51:20  japanese lambda? 16:51:57 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.41.55] has quit [Client Quit] 16:52:19 hehe 16:52:48 With  being the hash symbol. 16:55:19 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.41.55] has joined #lisp 16:57:07 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.64.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:22 looks like lambda. so funny. 16:57:28 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.24] has joined #lisp 16:58:59 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:19 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@108-222-196-145.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:19 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@108-222-196-145.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:59:19 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 17:00:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:03:24 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 17:03:27 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:03:37 I was actually wondering what it meant. 17:03:41 -!- ccomendant [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ccomendant] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:58 pavpenev [~quassel@212.233.134.172] has joined #lisp 17:04:45 -!- pavpenev is now known as pvlpenev 17:04:45 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 17:05:02 -!- pvlpenev is now known as pavelpenev 17:06:37 fade: it means "enter" 17:07:01 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:07:58 thanks :) 17:08:37 -!- fade is now known as Fade 17:13:08 -!- zbigniew [~zb@ipv6.3e8.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:14:20 zbigniew [~zb@ipv6.3e8.org] has joined #lisp 17:23:28 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:13 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129046240.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 17:25:15 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@99-71-111-56.lightspeed.whtnil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:27:09 smithzv [~smithzv@99-71-111-56.lightspeed.whtnil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:22 sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has 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[~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:02:42 -!- madmuppet006 [~user@122-62-124-247.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:28 dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-18-215.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:46 pavelpenev [~quassel@212.233.134.172] has joined #lisp 18:09:38 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.199.198.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:10:53 ikki [~ikki@189.199.198.24] has joined #lisp 18:12:01 drewc [~user@S0106000f3d01a09e.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:29 fe[nl]ix: yay for FiveAM! :) 18:13:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:14:19 metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 18:14:42 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:16:03 drewc1 [~user@74.198.150.201] has joined #lisp 18:16:20 drewc: ;) 18:16:21 -!- drewc1 is now known as drewc` 18:18:04 -!- drewc [~user@S0106000f3d01a09e.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:19:24 -!- drewc` is now known as drewc 18:20:53 *drewc* needs a test framework for a new app he is working on, and has chosed FiveAM 18:21:23 chosen* ... it must be sunday when my spelling is off! 18:23:17 good 18:25:34 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:30:34 -!- flaviori_ [~flaviorib@187.105.3.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:35:11 mikankun [~mikankun@unaffiliated/angelfly] has joined #lisp 18:38:05 -!- metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:38:28 lony [~user@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:38:54 -!- lony [~user@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 18:39:25 *madnificent* tends to test in a combination of is-right and 5am 18:45:49 -!- terpri [~terpri@137.Red-79-154-74.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: terpri] 18:47:49 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:50:17 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@85-127-92-130.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:52:38 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:55:31 Is there anything that can parse lambda-lists in such a way that I can write macros with bodies like `(defun ,name ,lambda-list (apply #'frob ',name ,(lambda-list-var-stuff lambda-list)))? 18:57:03 sykopomp: Alexandria has parse-ordinary-lambda-lis. 18:57:04 t 18:58:39 sellout: thanks! 18:58:51 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129046240.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:01:06 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-114-65.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:02:21 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:04:19 fantazo [~fantazo@85-127-16-185.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:05:49 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:09:10 -!- sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:09:33 com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp-sexp.source-form is able to parse all the lambda lists. 19:10:02 and to lock you out of a reasonable joice of licensing. lawyers, rejoice! 19:13:02 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:32 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:13:34 pjb: I would not get surprised if you had a fully qualified name which was longer than 80 characters in your libraries 19:13:45 get/be 19:14:06 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:14:29 Guthur: I don't think so, in lisp. But I had one once in C. 19:19:19 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-114-65.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:29 smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has joined #lisp 19:23:03 -!- smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has quit [Client Quit] 19:25:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.78.21] has joined #lisp 19:25:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.78.21] has quit [Changing host] 19:25:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:27:39 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-115.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:28:27 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-114-65.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:29:14 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A41A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:29:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 19:34:43 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-113-159.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:49 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-114-65.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:15 guaq [gua@hilla.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 19:40:36 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 19:46:19 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-59-18.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:47:59 snearch [~snearch@g225076062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:48:19 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:49:43 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-69-61.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:50:25 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-8-74.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:50:27 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.199.198.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:50:47 what is your licence of choice pjb? 19:51:09 dim: fbft 19:51:22 free beer for testing 19:51:25 lol 19:51:31 hehe 19:52:27 ikki [~ikki@189.199.198.24] has joined #lisp 19:53:09 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-59-18.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:54:22 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 19:55:47 jasox [~user@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 19:57:18 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@212.233.134.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:58:41 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:01:05 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-8-74.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:57 paradoja [~paradoja@40.Red-83-36-254.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:22 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-8-74.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:04:12 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.199.198.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:05:08 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-40-199.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:08:22 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-8-74.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:08:43 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:10:50 Is there a way to directly define a function in a different package than the one I'm currently in? 20:11:31 antoszka: (defun someone-elses-package::fun-name () 'lol) 20:11:34 Oh, sorry, I used a single colon. 20:11:36 Right. 20:11:49 And the symbol wasn't exported. 20:11:52 if you export it from someone else's package first, you can use a single colon. 20:11:54 Sure. 20:11:55 yeah 20:11:55 Thx. 20:12:49 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-222-125.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:35 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-40-199.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:13:41 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-142-113.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:21:02 sykopomp: look at my recent patch I sent to alexandria about destructure-clauses, it contains a function ordinary-lambda-list-parameters based on alexandria's parse-ordinary-lambda-list 20:22:33 -!- snearch [~snearch@g225076062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:22:54 sykopomp: http://lists.common-lisp.net/pipermail/alexandria-devel/2012-April/000715.html 20:22:56 Would that really cover all possible combinations of lambda-list when the only purpose is to generate a pass-through defun that happens to have a nice lambda list? 20:24:46 I guess if I manually extract the important ones and rebuild. Hm. 20:24:49 thanks. 20:27:12 ikki [~ikki@189.199.198.24] has joined #lisp 20:28:04 -!- pnpuff [~uu@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: pnpuff] 20:29:25 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:29:36 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-14-240.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:30:13 -!- edgar-rft [~me@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Perpetual darkness] 20:32:08 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.199.198.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:33:01 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-142-113.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:33:04 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.88.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:35:04 irpanech0 [~user@24.68.147.165] has joined #lisp 20:35:54 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:59 dekuked [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:09 timor [~icke@port-92-195-28-7.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:46:22 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-11-59.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:47:29 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:19 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-14-240.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:50:41 -!- irpanech0 [~user@24.68.147.165] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:51:11 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:44 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@187.112.156.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:56:57 Matt_S_G [~Matt_S_G@gateway/tor-sasl/mattsg/x-78535695] has joined #lisp 20:56:59 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:00:16 -!- r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.0.53] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]] 21:01:10 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-232-200.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:02:05 ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 21:04:42 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:05:00 dto [~dto@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:20 drewc` [~user@S0106000f3d01a09e.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:32 -!- jasox [~user@178.239.26.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:54 -!- drewc [~user@74.198.150.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:08:54 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 21:11:13 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:11:59 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:13:00 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:17:08 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:17:24 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:19:19 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:20:44 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:14 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:48 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 21:21:58 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:24:47 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-90-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:59 -!- mel0on [~user@h-72-75.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:20 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:31:03 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:17 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb119-74-178-124.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:33:18 lifeng [~lifeng@bb119-74-178-124.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 21:35:52 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:38:11 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:39:25 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:40:19 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-108-200-141-18.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:24 -!- Matt_S_G [~Matt_S_G@gateway/tor-sasl/mattsg/x-78535695] has quit [Quit: Matt_S_G] 21:43:04 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-108-200-141-18.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:44:28 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@85-127-16-185.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:05 <_8david> which is the USB library of choice? Don't need anything fancy; just basic "please open the device for me so that I can start writing bytes" stuff. 21:45:24 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-90-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:46:57 hmm would not modprobe usbserial and then simply using binary file i/o on /dev/ttyUSB0 work? 21:47:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:47:49 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.19.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:49:22 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:50:14 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: guyal] 21:52:02 -!- n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@37.79.42.76] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:53:21 <_8david> is that a question or a suggestion? 21:54:29 _8david: there was something written by nyef at one point 21:54:46 IMHO, CFFI to libusb is the safest bet 21:55:33 -!- timor [~icke@port-92-195-28-7.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:56:04 <_8david> cl-libusb has dependencies outside of quicklisp!! 21:56:51 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129046240.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 21:57:13 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:38 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:04 drewc`` [~user@74.198.150.201] has joined #lisp 22:00:32 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:00:56 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.22.139] has joined #lisp 22:01:45 -!- drewc` [~user@S0106000f3d01a09e.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:01:46 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:56 _8david: its a suggestion, thats how gant (garmin watch info downloader) works on linux 22:03:31 <_8david> aha, actually cl-libusb might just be referring to an old gsll's asds... 22:03:36 Riviera [~Riviera@92.51.147.16] has joined #lisp 22:04:06 <_8david> maxm-: okay, if it's meant as a suggestion, then I'd like a more verbose explanation, because I don't know what exactly you're suggesting 22:05:47 <_8david> for one thing, there is no /dev/ttyUSB0. Also, if it's that easy, why are all other people in the code that I've seen jumping through hoops to use USB. 22:06:49 _8david: there is a driver in linux called usbserial. Its used for the usb devices that read/write streams of bytes, ie stuff like watches, heart monitors and such. Since you mentioned "just writing bytes", I thought it was relevant. You can find more info by looking into /usr/src/linux/Documentation/usb/usb-serial.txt 22:07:57 generally if that driver does not know your device id, you have to specify on a command line: here how I load it for garmin watch. modprobe usbserial vendor=0x0fcf product=0x1008 22:08:39 I found vendor/product by tailing /var/log/messages when inserting garmi'ns usb stick.. After the modprobe, /dev/ttyUSB0 pops up, which you can then use to communicate with the watch 22:09:00 google around 22:09:52 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb119-74-178-124.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:10:36 lifeng [~lifeng@bb119-74-178-124.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 22:12:45 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:15:51 <_8david> hah, thank you! that's a lifesaver. 22:16:22 <_8david> (...actually, excuse me while I recompile my kernel so that usbserial is actually a module and not built-in...) 22:20:45 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 22:21:43 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb119-74-178-124.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:21:54 _8david: it will work only for devices that follow certain model, though, not for generic transaction management like libusb gives you 22:22:09 lolsuper_ [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:25:22 lifeng [~lifeng@bb119-74-178-124.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 22:32:31 _8david: Also, you might need the driver for a particular usb-serial adapter (there are numerous, like pl2303). 22:32:45 If you have a stock kernel, chance is all the drivers are already there. 22:35:11 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has joined #lisp 22:35:11 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has quit [Changing host] 22:35:11 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 22:40:09 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb119-74-178-124.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:41:24 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:47:23 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2dc6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:31 I'm getting "-bash: /usr/local/bin/sbcl: cannot execute binary file" on a current ubuntu installation (but not on another one that is also current) any ideas what might be the problem, or how to figure it out? 22:48:55 I tried with latest sbcl, and 1.0.50. 22:48:58 -!- paradoja [~paradoja@40.Red-83-36-254.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:10 lifeng [~lifeng@bb119-74-178-124.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 22:57:53 b3gott3n [~dwhite@184-8-167-106.dr03.blfd.wv.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:21 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 23:01:32 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:40 -!- Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-255-106.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Myk267] 23:09:02 <_8david> antoszka: the stock android kernel does not to my knowledge have usbserial ready :-) 23:09:09 drewc``` [~user@S0106000f3d01a09e.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:42 <_8david> I had actually compiled it in earlier, because I suspected that I'd need it without knowing exactly what it does. so =y was the wrong thing to do though, and =m would have been more clever. 23:10:33 <_8david> Still doing something wrong, since I can send but not really receive. Maybe it's just that someone found it funny to minor differences between the bluetooth and usb versions of this protocol though... 23:10:59 -!- drewc`` [~user@74.198.150.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:11:26 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2dc6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:12:20 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb119-74-178-124.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 23:12:54 drewc```` [~user@74.198.150.201] has joined #lisp 23:12:57 -!- drewc``` [~user@S0106000f3d01a09e.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:13:09 lifeng [~lifeng@bb119-74-178-124.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 23:13:39 Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-255-106.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:19 -!- drewc```` [~user@74.198.150.201] has quit [Client Quit] 23:18:13 _8david: I didn't read enough backlog to know it's on Android, sorry ;) 23:19:28 -!- dekuked [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:20:17 <_8david> I hadn't mentioned android yet. Just found the notion rather entertaining that the android kernel could have a useful configuration built-in! 23:20:56 kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-249.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:21:10 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:21:29 <_8david> (On this fabulous firmware, the device wouldn't even show up in lsusb until I commented out an assertion in the kernel...) 23:21:50 pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:25:37 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:40 I used to never use MAPCAN due to its obscurity but now I use it all the time. Thanks CL spec writers! 23:29:33 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.245] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:30:30 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.158.248.9] has joined #lisp 23:31:19 what's the common pattern you use it for? 23:31:19 r2q2 [~user@c-67-163-71-109.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:24 You make me want to use mapcan too! 23:32:59 oh 23:34:44 -!- pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:02 pspace [~andrew@199-188-193-145.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:09 carlo_au [~carlo@ppp59-167-5-183.lns1.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:06 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-18-215.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:40:31 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.41.120] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 23:40:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:58 -!- r2q2 [~user@c-67-163-71-109.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:13 sykopomp: I sometimes use mapcan as a filtering mechanism. 23:46:16 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:46:42 pnq [~nick@AC815F7D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:47:37 (remove nil (mapcar #'foo ...)) ~= (mapcan (lambda (x) (when (foo x) (list x))) ...) 23:47:39 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:47:54 Yup, me too. 23:48:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:48:55 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb119-74-178-124.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:49:32 I can't say I use it to filter, but I do use it where I basically want (flatten-once (mapcar ...)) 23:50:34 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:13 lifeng [~lifeng@bb119-74-178-124.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 23:52:19 [for instance, here: http://codepad.org/3jhsEYIW ] 23:52:40 sc_ [~sc@116.202.204.151] has joined #lisp 23:53:11 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-92-114.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 23:53:37 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has quit [Quit: o/] 23:53:51 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-92-114.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:54:47 OO people have UML and several methodologies for large S/W design. What techniques do lisp people normally use for large S/W design? 23:55:23 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.245] has joined #lisp 23:55:39 sc_: the sensible bits of UML can be reused 23:56:08 good old flowcharts are probably more useful than many new things, too 23:56:45 the most well-known part of UML, the class diagram, is IMHO useless even for the limited subset of OOP that it represents 23:56:59 sc_: Lisp does OO, so OO methodologies and tools like UML can be used. 23:57:34 but Lisp has a different view of objects, classes and methods compared with what most people think of as "OO" 23:57:41 p_l|backup: I read somewhere that flowcharts are not suitable for large software design. 23:57:43 you can still use class diagrams with CL, just use interfaces for protocols, and don't include methods in "classes" 23:58:48 sc_, flowcharts are fine when you are modeling a process. Large pieces of software aren't always a single process, and hence they aren't appropriate as a single form of modeling. 23:58:52 sc_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Lisp_Object_System 23:59:27 DataLinkDroid: yes, that's true. lisp does OO. But what I meant was pure lisp without the OO 23:59:30 as it happens though, UML's class diagrams are even less applicable 23:59:33 saage [~saage@200.195.179.34] has joined #lisp 23:59:33 -!- saage [~saage@200.195.179.34] has quit [Changing host] 23:59:33 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 23:59:44 sc_: pure lisp has OO. OOP != classes