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[~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 09:04:20 kwa1977 [~kwa@CPE-121-214-126-60.lnse4.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:05:05 nostoi [~nostoi@57.Red-83-33-71.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:57 Just out of curiosity, does anyone know the sbcl version that runs in the current version of slime. I am new to programming and I am trying to set up emacs23. 09:07:16 kwa1977: i'm using 1.0.56 09:07:24 kwa1977: (i.e. the current version) 09:08:21 alright cool. I think I am running the latest version of slime. I just installed it the other day. 09:08:28 kwa1977: with respect to "the current version of slime", i'd recommend that you use quicklisp. just install :quicklisp-slime-helper and you're set. 09:09:08 Do I install that in emacs? 09:09:16 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:09:46 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:57 dan64- [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 09:09:59 -!- dan64- [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:11:50 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:12:38 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:15:48 -!- yates [~user@nc-71-48-9-61.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:18:50 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@57.Red-83-33-71.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:20:13 -!- kwa1977 [~kwa@CPE-121-214-126-60.lnse4.lon.bigpond.net.au] has left #lisp 09:26:41 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:28:12 -!- smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:29:32 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:34:16 holycow [~fekoff@69.172.160.67] has joined #lisp 09:35:30 vervic [~vervic@88.116.134.106] has joined #lisp 09:36:08 -!- vervic [~vervic@88.116.134.106] has quit [Client Quit] 09:36:26 vervic [~vervic@88.116.134.106] has joined #lisp 09:37:14 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-236.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:37:24 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ce9c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:41 kwa1977: yes and no. first you install :quicklisp-slime-helper in sbcl, then you set up your .emacs to load slime from quicklisp. 09:39:03 oh. gone. 09:39:54 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-250-089.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:46 tiglog [~topeak@123.114.126.135] has 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has joined #lisp 11:22:20 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 11:25:28 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-92-114.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 11:26:25 yates [~user@nc-71-48-9-61.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 11:26:29 -!- tiglog [~topeak@123.114.126.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:26:34 (delete-if-not PREDICATE SEQ) iteratively evaluates the PREDICATE function with a single argument consisting of each element of SEQ? 11:26:54 and removes the elements which return a test of 't'? 11:30:19 No. 11:30:25 Have you tried to read 11:30:27 clhs delete-if-not 11:30:27 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_rm.htm 11:30:28 ? 11:32:37 There are a few functions in CL that do something specific when given T, but almost none of them do. 11:32:58 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.242.121] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:33:26 mucker [~mucker@183.83.242.121] has joined #lisp 11:37:38 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:08 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:41:52 I would like to implement a structure that processes data in a linear fashion (like a pipeline but the processing nodes don't need to be active at the same time). Currently I use let* to gather the result of one stage and then pass it to the next (stages are just functions). How would you implement such a thing? I'd like to have a nice macro that makes it possible to specify a pipeline easily and am interested in adding some type safety maybe. 11:42:14 -!- vervic [~vervic@88.116.134.106] has quit [Quit: vervic] 11:44:05 sepi: http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=chaining+function+group%3Acomp.lang.lisp&btnG=Search&sitesearch= 11:44:46 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:44:56 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-250-089.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:47:33 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ce9c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:51:28 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 11:52:23 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129046240.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 11:53:27 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.242.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:55:13 pjb: aha, that would spare me from writing a macro myself :) 11:56:36 what about type checking? I'd like to have the user specify pipelines and configure the processing nodes. I was wondering if I should just create a class for processing node with an input and output type and a process function. What do you think? 11:57:22 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0959.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:57:56 read http://dorophone.blogspot.com.es/2011/04/deep-emacs-part-1.html and part 2 too. 11:58:26 Basically, defining a method combination is equivalent to defining a monad. You could use that to do the type checking part. 11:58:29 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.54.109] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 11:58:49 also, later on, I'd maybe like to to make my pipeline parallel in order to reduce it's latency 11:59:15 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.54.109] has joined #lisp 11:59:58 pjb: ah, so I would use the class system as type checken. That's an interesting idea 12:01:28 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 12:01:29 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:03:42 Btw, is there a way to make instances of objects funcallable? 12:04:40 yes, but it's implementation dependent AFAIK 12:05:44 hmm, unfortunate 12:07:35 but if I want to late on make the execution parallelizable, I'd have to create processing nodes anyway. 12:08:26 threads. cf bordeaux-threads 12:09:19 -!- fvides [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:10:24 sepi: just today, i raved about lparallel http://netzhansa.blogspot.de/2012/06/lparallel-parallel-programming-library.html 12:11:17 H4ns: yeah, I've read it already :) It seems very nice and I'd like to use it 12:12:03 sepi: cool. i really hope that more people use it instead of messing around with low-level stuff. 12:12:44 vervic [~vervic@88.116.134.106] has joined #lisp 12:12:55 ``Erik_ [~erik@pool-108-3-178-223.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:57 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0959.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:14:26 I'm currently workin on https://gitorious.org/meshc which is supposed to turn a triangular mesh into intructions for a 3d printer. I'd like to build an html interface for it and therefore maybe use a parallel processing pipeline to reduce update latency 12:14:40 mucker [~mucker@183.83.242.121] has joined #lisp 12:15:37 nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has joined #lisp 12:18:29 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:19:01 sepi: you can make funcallable instances with MOP 12:20:41 http://sshrkv.tumblr.com/post/23090889739/clos-fsm-with-mop-sauce <--- has some examples 12:21:29 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ce9c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:03 http://exploring-lisp.blogspot.com/2007/05/objects-as-functions.html <--- some more examples 12:22:42 *dim* is a CL n00b and like lparallel very much :) 12:24:03 could someone try lparallel's sort on SBCL with a big enough set to sort, it failed here in the past 12:25:32 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-48-143.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:26:15 read H4ns' article, I only would add that lparallel.queue is a good mechanism (AFAICT) to communication data in between threads 12:26:39 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-252.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:26:50 sometime you don't want just the end-result but to keep sending data to the worker and keep getting results until the end 12:26:57 it's easy enough to implement that with lparallel 12:27:24 I should publish what I have, first I should untangle some private part from the things I can easily publish 12:28:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-236.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:28:32 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30:33 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-252.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:30:42 dim: H4ns's article was indeed quite good. i saw the paste earlier on which explained enough. i found the notion of a reverse-cond to be very interesting. the code was much easier to read bottom to top 12:31:52 fvides [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:33:29 zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-hwvhafunhazlvlfb] has joined #lisp 12:34:30 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.242.121] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:38:31 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-164-252.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:39:41 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 12:45:35 p_l thanks I'll have a look at it 12:53:42 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:57:30 dan64- [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 12:57:30 -!- dan64- [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:58:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:00:17 ehu: ping 13:03:11 xirie [~user@ti0010a380-dhcp2892.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:11:12 -!- xirie [~user@ti0010a380-dhcp2892.bb.online.no] has left #lisp 13:13:23 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:10 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:14:21 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github that does work. 13:32:13 <|3b|> timor: incomplete and experimental, but i think it was working last time i used it 13:32:35 what is the state of webgl actually, microsoft wasn't backing it iirc 13:33:01 madnificent: it reasonably works on desktop browsers, afaik 13:33:01 *|3b|* isn't sure if it is a good idea yet or not, still haven't really decided how i want to use parenscript 13:33:28 IE is still minority so it's fine that MS doesn't support it, can you see a corporate webapp needing it? 13:33:36 <|3b|> MS still has no plans to support it as far as i know, but there are plugins and chrome frame and such as a fallback i think 13:37:08 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37:18 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 13:37:24 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 13:38:20 p_l: the problem was that microsoft was backing out explicitly because of security issues, which in turn could mean that other browsers would drop support for the same reason in the further future. 13:38:46 ``Erik [~erik@66-118-151-70.static.sagonet.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:18 <|3b|> unfortunately couldn't figure out how to make ps-webgl look like cl-opengl, without risking runtime translation of keywords to ints, so all the enums are gl:+foo+ instead of :foo :( 13:40:24 nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-136-202-29.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:40:24 -!- ``Erik [~erik@66-118-151-70.static.sagonet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:40:27 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 13:40:55 ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:12 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:08 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:48:13 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ce9c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:34 ASau [~user@95-24-201-170.broadband.corbina.ru] 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dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 14:55:33 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:56:41 -!- xzpeter [7b760466@gateway/web/freenode/ip.123.118.4.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:02:54 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 15:17:40 pjb: yes, i did read that 15:17:48 alexandria:starts-with-subseq is terribly buggy :( 15:19:47 KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 15:20:33 pjb: have you read http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_s.htm#satisfy_the_test 15:20:34 ? 15:21:52 do you disagree with the definition? 15:23:05 teggi [~teggi@113.172.40.96] has joined #lisp 15:24:01 adeht: how so ? 15:25:21 fe[nl]ix, for example you'd expect (starts-with-subseq "foo" "oop" :start1 1) to return true... but (i) it passes args to mismatch in the reverse order so start1 becomes start2 and (ii) it compares the result of mismatch to the whole prefix's length, so returns false 15:26:19 younder [~john@69.248.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:26:51 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 15:30:30 hi 15:30:40 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30:56 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 15:31:14 please I'm trying to use bordeaux-threads but I cannot find make-thread function: slime completion show it as a non function 15:32:22 (find-all-symbols 'make-thread) 15:32:22 15:32:22 (BORDEAUX-THREADS:MAKE-THREAD MAKE-THREAD SB-THREAD:MAKE-THREAD) 15:32:30 -!- terpri [~terpri@245.Red-83-61-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: terpri] 15:32:54 bordeaux-threads:make-thread -------- 401.67 15:33:59 remove fasls and retry 15:34:12 I don't know why but it sometimes happens 15:35:27 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:43 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:21 maucar [~chatzilla@c-76-127-197-39.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:56 fasls? 15:37:59 where? 15:38:33 in the project dir? 15:39:14 Posterdati: yep 15:39:29 there aren't any fasls in there 15:40:32 dnolen [~user@142.131.228.247] has joined #lisp 15:40:40 -!- maucar [~chatzilla@c-76-127-197-39.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120423122624]] 15:40:42 Is there a reliable way to monitor one thread from another in CCL and/or SBCL? 15:40:47 these days your fasls are almost certainly under ~/.cache/common-lisp/ 15:40:58 nikodemus: ok 15:41:14 or rather, is there a way to reliably notify -something- when a thread stops or crashes? 15:41:31 sykopomp: how do you define stopping or crashing? 15:41:42 I'm not sure how guaranteed unwind-protect is when it comes to threads exploding. 15:42:35 unwind-protect is reliable, but it's not a notification or detection mechinism. it's "when this bit of stack unwinds" mechanism :) 15:42:36 thanks 15:43:02 -!- KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:09 nikodemus: I was crawling through the SBCL docs, and it looks like you need without-interrupts to make the u-p actually 'reliable' 15:43:28 sykopomp: if you insist on using asynch interrupts 15:43:36 which you /really/ should not 15:43:36 nikodemus: the intention is to have a notification system for when a thread is no longer alive, whether it's expected, or not. 15:43:58 nikodemus: shall I rm all ~/.cache/common-lisp ? 15:44:17 and I guess wrapping a huge chunk of stuff with without-interrupts is a very bad idea. :) 15:44:40 sykopomp: if you mean "there's an error in thread", then in current sbcl something like (make-thread (lambda () (handler-bind ((serious-condition #'abort)) ...))) is resonable 15:45:51 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:46:36 sykopomp: something along the lines of (defmacro asynch-unwind-protect (form &body cleanups) `(without-interrupts (unwind-protect (with-local-interrupts ,form) ,@cleanups)) guarantees what async interrupts cannot unwind from cleanups 15:46:46 nikodemus: I would *like* to be able to notify even when some horrible person decided to interrupt-thread. 15:47:10 yeah. There's this awful thing where you're crawling through docs, give up, ask a question, and find the answer right then. 15:47:15 thank you, though. :) 15:47:26 sykopomp: back to question: define "crash or stop" 15:47:28 sykopomp: the only bulletproof way I can think of involves polling. 15:47:44 (from outside the potentially-crashed thread) 15:48:45 nikodemus: Either the thread exits normally (because execution of its function completed), or an unhandled condition was signaled, or an interrupt clobbered it. 15:49:11 I don't know what else needs to be handled, though. I just want to be able to immediately notify something saying "this thread is no longer doing its job." 15:49:25 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-jnpxzmjhyqqmqxha] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:49:31 sykopomp: thread-alive-p tells you if it's still running. join-thread tells you if the exit was normal 15:50:02 but you need to poll with thread-alive-p, and join-thread blocks. 15:50:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:50:43 join-thread has a timeout, and after thread-alive-p has returned false join-thread doesn't block anymore 15:51:36 a timeout still blocks. I want to add the message to a mailbox asynchronously. 15:51:42 sykopomp: robust watchdogs work the other way around: the master polls regularly to see if the worker is *still* doing its job. 15:52:00 exactly 15:52:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.63.181] has joined #lisp 15:52:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.63.181] has quit [Changing host] 15:52:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:53:05 you also need to have some expectation of the error states workers encounter 15:53:07 sykopomp: I don't know what you're missing in: "after thread-alive-p has returned false join-thread doesn't block anymore" (nor how a timeout of zero seconds is blocking). 15:53:59 if those states are well behaved (as in "normal" lisp errors, etc), workers can clean up after themselves and notify master of their problems 15:54:34 iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:54:44 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:54:51 -!- iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:02 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:55:24 if you expect to see a lot of bad states (deadlocks on semaphotes, heap corruption, endless loops due to executing code from user input, etc), then the master needs to poll actively for progress, but you also need to isolate the children in another process, since you cannot safely deal with those error states in the same process the master lives in 15:55:57 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 15:56:42 I think I'm okay with heap corruption ending up with "sorry, you're SOL" :) 15:58:25 sykopomp: Saudi On Line ? 15:58:45 madnificent: shit outta luck 15:59:05 ah, towards your users 15:59:34 It also looks like CCL doesn't have timers or timeouts for threading stuff. Boo. 16:01:07 *sykopomp* discovers trivial-timers. 16:01:09 \o/ 16:06:42 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has left #lisp 16:06:45 yates: follow the link _true_. 16:08:13 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 16:10:56 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-136-202-29.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:11:36 fe[nl]ix: I'm the guy who you linked yesterday or so regarding rewriting his thesis in Lisp rather than Ruby. I would be happy to answer questions about it 16:12:45 cool pnathan 16:12:51 pnathan: I just found that sentence so funny, that somebody else could do worse wrt. GUIs 16:13:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-72.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:13:52 Getting a gui to work was excuciatingly difficult and fiddly due to the FFIs. I got sick of it and got running in LTK very quickly 16:15:02 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:17:49 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:18:04 pnathan: pretty sure there's a ruby/tk (: 16:19:15 Likely? I just got tired of dealing with the fiddly bits and went over to Lisp. Not had 1 regret. 16:22:00 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:55 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 16:25:09 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:26:24 pjb: to harp on trivial syntax in queries in a forum such as this instead of seeing the questioner's main question is not helpful. 16:26:36 of course i know true -> not nil 16:28:24 corni [~corni@p4FE381D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:28:24 -!- corni [~corni@p4FE381D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 16:28:24 corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has joined #lisp 16:30:42 pkhuong: still leaves the issue of ruby 1.8 vs ruby 1.9 16:33:13 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:02 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:40:32 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@187.105.3.184] has joined #lisp 16:41:32 terpri [~terpri@245.Red-83-61-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:17 -!- mel0on [~user@h-72-75.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:45:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:48:59 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:49:01 shwouchk [~shwouchk@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has joined #lisp 16:49:59 snearch [~snearch@f053007024.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:51:41 -!- bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 16:52:36 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-82-247.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:56 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-82-247.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 16:53:39 -!- shwouchk [~shwouchk@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:55:08 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-25-97.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:57:18 z1l0g [~jgw@216.99.214.24] has joined #lisp 16:57:34 hola 16:59:12 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@60-241-66-29.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:59:40 for a recursive incrementing function, is there a way to display the symbol-value stored in the intermediate steps? 16:59:55 ie. (defun my-length (x) (cond ((null x) 0) (T (1+ (my-length (rest x)))))) 17:00:16 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:46 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-179-47-141.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:59 Have you tried TRACE? 17:01:46 z1l0g: note that symbol-value works on special variables (parameters), not lexical ones like X. 17:01:47 well, yes, trace doe sshow that, but I'd like to illustrate that, yes, the symbol named my-length is storing values 17:02:27 z1l0g: there's nothing stored in my-length's value cell here. 17:02:28 z1l0g: one useful trick is that PRINT also returns the value it prints 17:02:32 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 17:02:32 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:02:33 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-108-200-141-18.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:07 so you can stick prints in your code in most places without breaking the execution 17:03:29 no? I thought it was being used as a local variable 17:05:09 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:06:54 KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 17:07:14 What are you trying to trace? my-length is a function. x is a lexical variable in my-length. 17:07:17 isn't it basically a lexical storage vessel in this line: (T (1+ (my-length (rest x)))) ? 17:07:43 gigamonkey: hi 17:10:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:12:08 *z1l0g* facepalms 17:12:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:32 ugh - okay, I think I see where I was thinking wrong 17:12:52 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-252.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:13:27 it has to drill all the way down to 0, then starts incrementing 17:13:49 Correct. 17:14:05 To be precise, the return-value is incremented, then returned. 17:14:40 had it in my head that since symbols have a value pointer that somehow my-length was storing something 17:15:57 thanks 17:16:01 -!- z1l0g [~jgw@216.99.214.24] has quit [Quit: That's it for today] 17:16:17 b3gott3n [~dwhite@184-8-167-106.dr03.blfd.wv.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:21 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 17:21:03 -!- dfox [~dfox@89.177.105.49] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:21:13 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-252.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:21:41 -!- dnolen [~user@142.131.228.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:24:43 dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #lisp 17:25:48 centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-162-52-49.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:56 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-252.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:28:03 -!- vervic [~vervic@91-115-30-192.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: vervic] 17:28:29 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 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#lisp 18:09:36 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:11:42 -!- jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:13:49 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:15:00 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 18:21:49 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:23:10 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:31:44 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:33:55 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:37:34 n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@37.79.42.76] has joined #lisp 18:38:16 -!- KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:16 if you defun something that expects a keyword argument named x, is it safe to use (case x ...) to choose forms to run based on x? all keywords are in the same package, so identities should always match correctly, right? 18:38:53 fukushim_ [~fukushima@z128.124-44-151.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:39:36 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@37.79.125.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:40:03 -!- fukushima [~fukushima@z128.124-44-151.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:40:42 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129046240.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:41:08 -!- timor101 [~icke@port-92-195-3-193.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:43:19 snorble_ [~snorble@c193-14-18-68.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 18:45:45 yea case is fine with keywords 18:46:05 if you need to match on numbers or such, use (alexandria:switch) 18:49:06 I meant on constants... ie I kept forgetting and was surprised every time that (defconstant +x+ 10) and (case (expr) (+x+ whatever)) does not work, coz it uses (eql (expr) (quote +x+))... 18:50:09 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053007024.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:50:37 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@187.105.3.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:58 You can also wrap the defconstant in an eval-when :compile-toplevel :load-toplevel ;execute, and (case var (#.+x+ ) ) 18:51:04 but granted it's not pretty. 18:51:19 yea I know, was happy when I saw alexandria have switch 18:55:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:57:19 maxm-: #. works fine for constants. 19:02:01 jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 19:05:57 -!- ofan [~ofan@unaffiliated/ofan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:10:27 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.40.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13:32 zophy [~zophy__@host-18-111-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:32 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:32 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:19:14 asvil [~asvil@178.121.7.36] has joined #lisp 19:24:15 shwouchk 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Connection reset by peer] 21:14:11 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:15:06 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 21:15:18 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:17:30 H4ns: ping 21:18:55 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:20:36 dan64- [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:36 -!- dan64- [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:21:06 dan64- [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:06 -!- dan64- [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:22:04 emacs-dwim [~user@cpe-67-249-179-243.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:38 -!- jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:36:02 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129046240.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 21:36:59 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@37.79.42.76] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:38:43 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:40:34 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.7.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:42:47 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:42:56 jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 21:47:33 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.26.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:49:03 terpri [~terpri@131.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:35 -!- pnpuff [~uu@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: pnpuff] 21:51:29 Kryztof: herep 21:51:57 *maxm-* had factored out manual deletes of qt objects from his code 21:52:19 -!- b3gott3n [~dwhite@184-8-167-106.dr03.blfd.wv.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:53:48 (with-transient-qt-objects () .... (let ((pt (transient (new QPoint x y ))) ....))) deletes automatically.. Then made shortcut for new* => (transient (new ...). Then since all my functions defined with custom definer instead of defun/defmethod, just wrapped any (function q)/(method q) bodies into (with-transient-qt-objects 21:54:06 immediately simplified a lot of code, and caught all the places I make new temp objects and forget to delete them 21:54:44 -!- terpri [~terpri@131.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:54:51 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:55:02 Woot! SWANKR is alive. 21:55:15 maxm-: I think it's more common to have new automatically enqueue the object for cleanup, with an explicit function when an object leaves the cleanup's dynamic extent. 21:55:25 pkhuong: thats exactly what it does 21:56:10 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0959.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:56:17 if I read this correctly, the default is to have allocations be persistent, and transient makes them dynamic-extent-ish. 21:57:07 thing is you can't make every "new" do it, because sometimes its stuff like (def (method q :after) initialize-instance ((this some-window ...)) (with-slots (subwindow) this (setf subwindow (new whatever)) (subwindow.setSizePolicy (new* QSizePolicy ...)))) 21:57:25 maxm-: that's why there's an explicit function to note when an object may escape. 21:57:27 ie difference is 1st new object should not be auto-deleted (coz it escapes), but 2nd one is, so need a distinction 21:58:41 The difference is that having one object be marked as both default (i.e. may escape) and non-escaping (transient) doesn't really work. OTOH, having the default be non-escaping means that as soon as one reference is marked as potentially escaping, the object may escape, and that makes sense. 22:00:42 well its just a convinience macro, since setup of various qt windows involves a lot of (window.setSomethingOrOther (new SomethingOrOther (new SomethingOrOtherAttr1) (new QPen whatever)) 22:01:08 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.19.45] has joined #lisp 22:02:30 and you can easily make it so that within the static or dynamic scope of that macro, the default is non-escaping allocation... and avoid any potential bug caused by multiple references to the same object, only one of which is marked as non-escaping. 22:03:01 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-4.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:04:16 hmm I don't quite get it, you saying protection against accidentelly the transient object? ie (new* something), but store the ref to it? 22:04:55 CommonQt already does this, it keeps a %deleted slot in the object (its a wrapper, not a raw :pointer), so it will (warn) if trying to delete same thing twice 22:05:06 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 22:05:07 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:06:15 sykopomp: do you know about cl-muproc? 22:06:27 luis: yes 22:06:45 sykopomp: OK, just checking. :) 22:07:21 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 22:07:55 sykopomp: doesn't Erlang-style concurrency really, really want lightweight threads? ISTR that was why the cl-muproc folks gave up on that. 22:08:30 I dunno. I think being limited to a couple of hundred threads could still be useful. 22:09:43 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.64.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:48 in any case, it's helping me learn erlang a little better, and doing stupid lisp tricks is always fun. 22:10:04 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.196] has joined #lisp 22:10:31 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-3-87.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:33 Heh, sure. 22:11:55 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-80-231-20.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:52 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:21:00 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-nfkkpncemhjruero] has joined #lisp 22:22:26 -!- jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:36 sykopomp: I've been meaning to learn Erlang for ages, but I guess it won't happen until I find some decent project where I can use it. 22:24:55 luis: I write it at work, and I'm hoping that rewriting its main tools will be a good way to understand them better. It's really a language that shines more when you have a big project to work on with it. 22:26:35 luis: to make it nicer, LFE (Lisp-flavoured Erlang) got good enough to be used as main language, afaik :) 22:26:49 kwa1977 [~kwa@CPE-121-214-126-60.lnse4.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 22:27:07 and yes, sykopomp is right. Erlang's greatness, IMHO, comes at least partially from the OS provided by OTP 22:27:30 luis: I know an erlang company in houston that is recruiting. 22:28:29 -!- poisonarms [~poisonarm@cpe-66-68-80-227.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:28:31 I'm thinking of reimplementing the gen_server/supervisor parts of OTP if this works out, and then things would -actually- be useful. :) 22:29:06 For kicks, I wrote a chaos monkey server at work that randomly picked erlang processes and killed them, to make sure our app can recover. Good times. 22:31:22 Fare: cool, not looking for a new job atm though. 22:31:31 sykopomp: sounds fun! 22:31:35 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:31:53 *luis* eyes tcr 22:32:20 sykopomp: stupid lisp tricks :) 22:32:46 btw google has just released a visual programming thing called "blockly" 22:33:13 it compiles to Dart, though. 22:33:21 I smell a trademark lawsuit coming up! Have at 'em, dto. 22:34:02 the guy who threatened me over "xong" was just a goofball.... i checked USPTO.gov but thus far there's no application for Blockly 22:34:16 actually there is some australian dog collar company called Blocky Dogs 22:34:33 but, my favorite acronym. IANAL 22:34:44 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 22:37:45 i think blockly is a googler's , whatever they call it, pet project 22:37:56 ofan [~ofan@unaffiliated/ofan] has joined #lisp 22:38:06 pnq [~nick@AC816554.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:25 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 22:39:01 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:40:12 does paying for a domain name count as "commerce?" 22:40:18 i.e. first commercial use 22:40:22 or do i have to BE a company? 22:40:45 dto: you shouldn't have to be a company 22:40:49 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:14 i bought the domain name a year ago, because it just auto-renewed 22:41:15 though for trademarks it's afaik customary to set up some entity for management if you aren't doing it yourself 22:41:29 i guess HN has inflated the price of .io 22:41:47 i dunno. did anyone ever attempt to sue Python? 22:42:15 dto: I don't know how it goes in USA... 22:42:27 anyway, for a long time Python (the language) was based in Europe 22:42:31 hmm 22:42:53 and despite what some might think, neither patents nor trademarks are global 22:42:53 pkhuong: if two objects, only accessible via weak pointers, have references to each other, do they get gc'ed? 22:43:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:35 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0959.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:43:36 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:16 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:37 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:46:47 maxm-: the GC doesn't follow weak pointers, so no. 22:47:22 i'd like to be elsewhere by 2016 or so. my two candidate cities are Montreal and Canberra 22:47:39 -!- redscare [~lenskiy@ool-435634f3.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 22:47:46 maxm-: huh. I meant, they are GCed. 22:48:26 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:42 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 22:51:11 -!- timor [~icke@port-92-195-3-193.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:53:48 huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has joined #lisp 22:54:01 vervic [~vervic@80-123-48-45.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:55:17 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:34 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-013-245.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:56:32 timor101 [~icke@port-92-195-3-193.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:57:49 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:58:48 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.98] has joined #lisp 23:00:59 -!- timor101 [~icke@port-92-195-3-193.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:01:46 smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has joined #lisp 23:07:38 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-140-188.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:43 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:03 ah figured out what it is, commonqt apparently weakly caches not only the object itself, but also by its address casted to all superclasses 23:16:29 funny enough lichtblau and stassats have a fix for it 14 days ago 23:20:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:11 -!- kwa1977 [~kwa@CPE-121-214-126-60.lnse4.lon.bigpond.net.au] has left #lisp 23:24:06 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:25:35 *maxm-* is actually not sure about this.. This seems like a lot of extra work for only very few corner cases, and Qt inheritence is usually pretty deep 23:26:37 -!- smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:28:17 -!- vervic [~vervic@80-123-48-45.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 23:28:43 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:29:07 KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 23:32:49 anyway, that resolves the mystery of qt::*weakly-cached-objects* growing forever 23:34:17 holycow [~fekoff@69.172.160.67] has joined #lisp 23:42:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:44:52 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:50:08 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:50:22 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:52:45 jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 23:53:49 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:57:21 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:58:08 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-82-247.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:59:56 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]