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either way, it generates a style warning about c being unused. 02:12:47 Ok, don't listen to me today. 02:13:00 what 02:13:16 (declare (ignore c)) 02:14:03 ah, my bad. it's in the footnotes 02:14:10 didn't see the super5 02:15:06 is there a way that this should be written without that declaration? or is that the kosher way to write restarts? 02:15:56 this restart is special since it invokes a restart with the same name in the outer restart scope. 02:16:34 A normal restart could fetch information from the condition and change some state before returning to some place. 02:16:37 lifeng [~lifeng@bb119-74-178-124.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 02:17:05 gko [~gko@42.71.218.79] has joined #lisp 02:17:16 See the example in clhs restart-case 02:18:13 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 02:18:26 -!- mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:19:49 kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-136-14-255.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 02:20:12 -!- guyal 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edgar-rft [~me@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 03:34:59 DOCUMENTATION returns lots of ^M if a file has DOS line ending. for example (documentation 'cl-unification:match-case 'function) returns http://imagebin.org/214414 03:36:11 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has joined #lisp 03:37:08 leo2007: that's because you loaded the file with the wrong :external-format argument! 03:37:11 clhs load 03:37:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_load.htm 03:37:27 pjb: I use quickload 03:37:36 There have been recent patches to asdf to deal with external formats. 03:38:13 arrsim` [~user@128.250.116.167] has joined #lisp 03:38:19 I don't know if quickload has been upgraded to use the latest asdf (it also use the asdf provided by the implementation if it's recent enough). 03:38:42 I see. I am still using SBCL 1055 03:38:52 if i have a list of values '(one two three), can I easily convert them into a list of properties? 03:39:07 trying to use a macro didn't work terribly well 03:39:15 leo2007: also, you can recode the files in ~/quicklisp and recompile them (erase ~/.cache/common-lisp). 03:39:36 pjb: yeah 03:39:48 magnificrab: symbols are properties. What else do you want to do? 03:40:09 magnificrab: I mean, symbols are property keys. Have you any keys? 03:40:30 leo2007: of course, this is not good, if you plan to upgrade systems later 03:40:44 teggi [~teggi@113.172.40.96] has joined #lisp 03:40:52 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40:57 magnificrab: (loop for k in keys for v in values collect k collect v) 03:41:00 homebrew SBCL is still behind 03:41:44 magnificrab: where are your values going to come from for those keys? or is '(one two three) the list of values? 03:42:38 Phoodus: imagine i want to end up with the plist '(:one 1 :two 2 :three 3) from '(one two three) and '(1 2 3) 03:43:03 then pjb's line should work 03:43:07 pjb: sorry, i spent the last two minutes trying to form a coherent response 03:43:19 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:31 oh, but you'd also need to keywordify your symbols as well 03:43:36 ok, so the evaluator will somehow decide those are keys? 03:43:40 uh hu 03:43:51 the system doesn't know anything "special" about p-lists 03:43:58 it's just a regular list 03:44:06 i wrote a macro to do it, but it still expects the property to be prepended with a : 03:44:08 -!- __dict__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:44:15 magnificrab: you don't need to keywordify property list keys. 03:44:22 some functions take a list and assume it's in (key val key val ...) format, but there's no special structure to hold that beyond plain lists 03:44:23 magnificrab: as long as they're symbols, it's ok. 03:44:28 ah ok 03:44:42 so as long as i'm using getf it should figure it out? 03:44:52 Phoodus: actually property list functions use EQ, so keys cannot be numbers or characters. 03:45:11 yeah, to get the exact result '(:one ...) from '(one ...) you'd need to re-intern as keywords, but if you don't care about that, you can just get '(one 1 two 2 three 3) as a result instead, without bothering with keywords 03:45:58 magnificrab: on the contrary, if you deal with symbol-plists (get instead of getf), then you should use your own symbols rather than keywords to avoid collisions. 03:47:05 So you could have (setf (get 'car 'type) 't) in the COMPILER package, and (setf (get 'car 'type) 'sedan) in the CARSELLER package. 03:47:20 ok 03:47:29 so (symbol-plist 'car) --> (compiler:type t carseller:type carseller:sedan) 03:47:59 dto [~dto@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:06 this works: (getf some-plist 'foo) ==> "bar", where some-plist ==> (list foo bar) 03:48:19 Yes, it's specified that way. 03:48:28 so the : is irrelevant 03:48:29 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-15-121.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:33 for this case 03:48:34 when some-plist ==> (foo bar) 03:48:48 (list foo bar) is not a plist since it has an odd number of elements (3). 03:49:17 ok, so '(foo bar), not (list foo bar)? 03:49:20 And nobody knows what (list foo bar) would evaluate to since you didn't say what foo and bar were bound to. 03:49:37 '(foo bar) is a list of two elements: quote and (foo bar). 03:49:46 so, totally a plist 03:49:47 :D 03:49:54 So if some-plist is bound to '(foo bar), then (getf some-plist 'quote) --> (foo bar). 03:50:21 You would have to bind some-plist to (foo bar), to get (getf some-plist 'foo) --> bar. 03:52:53 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-15-121.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:52:58 http://paste.lisp.org/display/129711 03:53:03 did i do something wrong? 03:54:13 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:54:35 No, it's all good. 03:55:29 To bind some-plist to {an object equal to) '(foo bar) you'd have to write something like (let ((some-plist ''(foo bar))) ) or (let ((some-plist (list 'quote '(foo bar)))) ) 03:56:14 To bind some-plist to {an object equal to} (foo bar) you could bind it to the object returned by the evaluation of '(foo bar): (let ((some-plist '(foo bar))) ) 03:57:01 You could also experiment with read: (let ((some-plist (read))) ) and type (foo bar) or '(foo bar) and see what gives. 03:57:05 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-3-87.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:00 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.90.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:21 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.213] has joined #lisp 04:00:42 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:00:43 pjb: no problems 04:01:19 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:01:24 follow-on question, is there a method for converting a comma separated string into symbols? 04:03:37 use split-sequence? 04:05:42 __dict__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has joined #lisp 04:08:41 magnificrab: i generally keep CL-PPCRE handy, so I would use (cl-ppcre:split ", ?" "these, are, some, symbol, strings") 04:09:20 then intern them to create the desired symbols 04:10:40 -!- brunocoelho [~bruno_coe@177.134.153.148] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14:53 or ", *" for the regex would be better 04:15:59 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:17:46 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:46 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:20:45 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:56 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:24:15 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 04:26:33 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.yhikad.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 04:26:54 Is there any documentation for the cl-smtp package? 04:28:03 rfc2821? 04:28:17 -!- benny [~benny@i577A35C5.versanet.de] has quit 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[~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:54:00 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-192-177.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:54:03 -!- gigamonkey_ is now known as gigamonkey 06:55:08 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 06:59:11 lopin [~pierre_lo@47887hd53015.ikexpress.com] has joined #lisp 07:00:38 springz [~springz@118.143.64.134] has joined #lisp 07:03:45 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:06:08 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:06:20 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: guyal] 07:08:21 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 07:09:16 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81AD9A.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:09:41 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-3-87.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: better convince myself to] 07:09:52 I'm wanting to do something this (setf (read-line (getf record :name))) to edit text in a field of a database. Of course, that doesn't work, but hopefully someone can show me how to do it. 07:10:13 this = like this 07:10:34 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:18 drl: see com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.file and .stream 07:11:51 pjb, thanks. I'll read that. 07:12:51 Whoops! that's not a url. 07:14:14 -!- b_ [~chatzilla@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:17 jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:16:52 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.yhikad.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:20:17 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20:26 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 07:20:31 morning 07:21:29 -!- edgar-rft [~me@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Perpetual darkness] 07:21:48 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:21:57 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:23:24 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@1.140.33.137] has quit [Quit: Bye] 07:25:00 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28:21 pjb, I googled that, and found your post, but I'm using a plist, not clos. So does that post apply in this case? 07:29:17 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has joined #lisp 07:31:05 drl: you need to read your database, change it, then write it again 07:31:08 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-14-255.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:31:46 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:31:50 drl: and read-line is not what you typically want. also look at *print-readably* 07:31:59 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-57.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:32:32 -!- __dict__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:32:43 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-dklzbdphlphvxuqe] has joined #lisp 07:33:00 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:34:13 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:35:05 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:37:53 -!- Guest48064 [~lukas@ip4-83-240-108-205.cust.nbox.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:40:00 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:40:21 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 07:42:01 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-14-255.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:48:54 -!- irpanech0 [~user@24.68.147.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:50:01 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:53:25 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:53:26 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:53:49 H4ns, I know I can do it like this: (setf (getf record :name) (prompt-read "Name:Jones")), but I if "Joones" is already in the slot, I want the user to be able to just delete the excess "o" and hit without having to type "Jones". 07:54:35 Sorry, hit enter to soon. Hold. 07:55:22 H4ns, I know I can do it like this: (setf (getf record :name) (prompt-read "Name:")), but I if "Joones" is already in the slot, I want the user to be able to just delete the excess "o" and hit without having to type "Jones". 07:55:48 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA102C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:56:00 drl: then you'll need a prompt-read that accepts a default and provides for line editing 07:56:28 Correct. How is that done? 07:56:33 drl: and if you don't want to type the getf two times (one for setting, one for getting the default), write yourself a macro. 07:56:50 drl: perhaps you could use linedit? 08:00:19 H4ns, please show me how to do it typing getf two times? 08:00:28 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:00:49 flip214, where is linedit? 08:02:30 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:08 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-181-38.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:03:41 flip214, never mind, I found it. 08:05:08 hitecnologys [~noname@94.137.25.56] has joined #lisp 08:06:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-241-14.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 08:06:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-241-14.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 08:06:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:06:57 drl: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129714 - untested, just to give you an idea 08:08:20 drl: https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/common-lisp/cesarum/file.lisp 08:08:34 drl: (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum) 08:14:36 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:16:26 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:16:29 H4ns: this macro is very bad. 08:17:09 pjb: now you get something to do. 08:17:28 (let ((plist (list :a 1 :b 2 :c 3)) (keys #(:a :b :c)) (index 0)) (edit-plist-entry plist (aref keys (incf index)))) 08:17:42 pjb: no, really? 08:18:09 (macroexpand '(edit-plist-entry plist (aref keys (incf index)))) if you don't believe me. 08:18:18 pjb: i meant to give drl some idea, not implement library quality code. 08:18:34 Then don't give him wrong ideas. 08:18:47 pjb: instead of whining, explain the problem to him. 08:21:32 I just want 08:21:47 lony [~user@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:21:56 the simplest solution. 08:22:27 drl: at some point, you'll have to actually read a book 08:23:15 -!- lony [~user@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 08:25:27 H4ns, I've not found this in any book I've read. Point me to a web page of something. 08:26:02 drl: did you look at the code i pasted? do you understand it? do you understand why pjb says it is bad code? 08:27:03 drl: programming does not work like "go into #lisp, tell people to solve my problem". :) 08:27:41 H4ns: why not? "plz email me teh codez" 08:27:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-233.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:27:47 drl, what they actually mean 08:27:59 (http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/plz-email-me-teh-codez.aspx for people who don't know that yet) 08:28:00 is that you will have to think it through for yourself 08:28:40 at some point all programming comes to that 08:29:02 here it just happens a little quicker (by here I mean #lisp) 08:29:15 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:29:23 mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:30:29 H4ns, yes, I looked at it. I'll have to study it to understand it. But if you know how to do it, why give me code that is bad? 08:30:47 to give you boost 08:30:51 drl: i'm not here to write you a library 08:30:51 a 08:31:28 drl: the code has limitations, but if you know them, it can be useful. i often write code that pjb would consider "bad". i don't share his obsession for good code all the time. 08:31:38 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:31:50 drl: it is important to understand your tools, and to be able to judge when to use what, and for what purpose. 08:32:29 drl: so, now go study the code. i'm not going to solve your problem. if you want to be a programmer, stop asking for solutions. ask for ways to solutions. 08:32:33 pjb, which parts of that module are specfic to drl's query? 08:32:34 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA102C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:32:51 RenJuan: <09:09:53> I'm wanting to do something this (setf (read-line (getf record :name))) to edit text in a field of a database. 08:33:13 mvilleneuve__ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:33:13 so you're saying the entire module? 08:33:43 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 08:34:03 RenJuan: (setf (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.file:sexp-file-contents "database.data") "my-field-value") 08:34:39 Now of course, you can do the same for more complex file format, ie, for whole databases with records and fields. 08:34:40 -!- mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:35:43 That said, definiting accessors is something that you can do as an afterthought. 08:36:08 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-14-255.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:36:37 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:37:45 by "that module" I meant https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/common-lisp/cesarum/file.lisp 08:38:07 This file contains several examples. 08:38:47 fascinating 08:38:58 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-181-38.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 08:41:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-33.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:41:50 so anyway drl, paradoxically, figure it out yourself is actually the best advice in this particular culture 08:42:31 they all have different ways of doing things and that's sort of the deal here 08:43:02 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-14-255.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:43:36 drl: chapter 12 of On Lisp (available from its authors website) explains how to remove the multiple evaluation from H4ns macro. get-setf-expansion replaced get-setf-method since that was written 08:45:32 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 08:46:11 b_ [~chatzilla@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:46:39 i often write macros that are just there to remove clutter in application code and that do not attempt to work for all cases. 08:46:42 just popped in to say: I am very very happy i stumbled upon lisp :D everything seems possible!! thank you all :D 08:46:49 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-113-159.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 08:47:07 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 08:47:15 and this particular (lisp specific) case. At first I thought you were talking about a disambig or completion/frequency list whatever, something that is done in different langs but shows as the same thing, so that you could be refered to an equivalent lisp function 08:47:43 *functionality 08:51:38 RenJuan, "figure it out yourself is actually the best advice in this particular culture" Then what is the purpose of this chat room? 08:52:00 drl: you may prefer #clnoobs 08:52:02 drl: it has no purpose. we hang out here. 08:52:08 drl: type /topic 08:52:50 drl: but even #clnoobs cannot do the learning for you, and won't write the code for you. 08:53:28 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-14-255.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:53:53 drl: as for editing Joones, there's theorically CL:ED, but it is not implemented in some implementations. 08:53:53 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:54:15 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 08:54:20 drl, the free consults that H4ns and pjb provided 08:54:35 and Vivitron 08:55:19 drl: in implementations where cl:ed is implemented, you can do something like: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129715 08:55:31 drl, you might like scheme better 08:55:46 racket is the best implementation these days 08:56:07 that's kind of the ethos here 08:56:08 in this example, my clisp is configured to use emacsclient for cl:ed, so I just remove a o from Joones in emacs and C-x # to go on in lisp. 08:57:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:57:50 For implementations that lack cl:ed, I have an ed(1) implementation com.informatimago.common-lisp.ed.ed:ed (but it lacks regexps yet, I should hook in cl-ppcre, so in your specific case, you couldn't use s/oo/o/), or there's portable-hemlock, or linedit, etc. 09:00:26 ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 09:01:24 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:02:06 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:02:29 What questions are allowed here? 09:03:29 any really, lisp related ones. Your's is fine. 09:03:52 the thing is this kind of thing would typically be done as minor functionality in some library 09:04:41 folks, any idea why none of the cl implementations grow to have first-class continuation? 09:05:00 isn't there a library for that already? cl-cont? 09:05:23 leo2007: it's somewhat incompatible with unwind-protect, blocks, etc 09:05:43 leo2007: however, last year, somebody wrote a paper showing how to reconciliate them. 09:05:44 i seem to remember libs for it 09:05:58 pjb: where is the paper? 09:06:11 I don't have a reference. Use google. 09:06:13 RenJuan: some libs does something but not first-class continuation. 09:06:25 leo2007: perhaps I heard about it on lambda the ultimate. 09:06:32 or variant implementation rather 09:06:45 leo2007: the meaning of the spec is murky if one adds first class continuatins. 09:06:50 don't feel like rumaging thru bookmarks 09:06:56 It's a little like threads. 09:07:16 *implementations 09:07:21 since you can return several times from the same continuation 09:12:57 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has left #lisp 09:13:04 pkhuong: it is a pity. 09:14:06 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:14:19 drl: so to be clear, the specifics of the object design of that library and it's dependents, the other lisp infrastructure you choose to use, determine the best way to do it. 09:15:08 *dependencies 09:16:02 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 *best ways 09:18:41 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 09:20:49 -!- springz [~springz@118.143.64.134] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:21:21 gko` [~gko@42.71.218.79] has joined #lisp 09:21:38 -!- gko` [~gko@42.71.218.79] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:26:10 ASau`` [~user@176.14.167.88] has joined #lisp 09:29:56 -!- ASau` [~user@93-80-253-113.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:31:17 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:31:36 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:34:04 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 09:34:35 -!- b_ [~chatzilla@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120423122928]] 09:35:09 meh the original "lisp is toxic" guy is apparently a quitter http://blog.jacius.info/2012/05/29/a-personal-lisp-crisis/ 09:35:54 TimKack [~user@c-2ec2b126-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 09:36:03 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 09:36:15 *maxm-* still wonders at sillyheads who go into learning some field, immediately taking "completely overthrow and paradigm/shiftly revolutionize it" as their 1st project, and then burn out rather spectacularly 09:38:17 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:39:19 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 09:40:33 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-159-223.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:41:49 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-vidifyocwcgnbieo] has joined #lisp 09:41:49 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-vidifyocwcgnbieo] has quit [Changing host] 09:41:49 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:41:54 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:43:07 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:18 Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has joined #lisp 09:43:40 -!- Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has left #lisp 09:47:59 So, he defined packages reexporting and possibly renaming things from CL. Good. 09:48:39 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 09:48:40 Too bad he didn't realize that he could do the reverse: write a modular implementation structured as he wanted, and reexport and rename things into a CL package to provide CL compatibility. 09:49:17 Then he could have thought about the fundamental semantics of CL and which were problematic. It seems the only dislike he as is about NIL! 09:49:23 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 09:49:25 s/he as/he has/ 09:50:09 -!- vazakl [~vazakl@22.50.5646.static.theplanet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:50:32 wanze [~wanze@61.139.105.97] has joined #lisp 09:50:58 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.7.105] has joined #lisp 09:51:05 -!- wanze [~wanze@61.139.105.97] has quit [Client Quit] 09:51:20 [SLB] [~slabua@host185-170-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:51:21 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host185-170-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 09:51:21 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 09:51:27 pjb: you don't take on ambigious project like that, unless you want to make it project of a lifetime 09:51:44 ie you think linus actually got to do whatever he originally wanted linux for? 09:52:12 Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has joined #lisp 09:52:27 -!- Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has left #lisp 09:52:59 -!- e__krappi [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:53:05 e__krappi [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 09:53:29 :-) 09:54:06 maxm-: it ran multiple processes of the 386. Pretty sure that was the original goal. 09:54:17 on 09:54:19 playing armchair psychologist (and trying to stomp out that tendency in myself), reminds me of a guy who wants to start painting, but he spends tons of time setting up the studio, then learning about paints, then its winter so the light is not right, then its summer, but now he wants to paint winter landscapes etc, never getting to actually paint 09:54:24 cfdm [~user@114.205.86.94] has joined #lisp 09:55:23 What I find more disturbing is his obsession with the "social context". 09:55:40 Social context?!? I think I'll read it after all. 09:56:04 naryl: you may also read his previous blog entries about CL, but take them with a grain of salt! 09:56:54 pjb: No worries, the company I work for is full of anti-CL trolls ;) 09:57:06 ok, you're vaccinated :-) 09:59:04 jaxtr [~vazakl@22.50.5646.static.theplanet.com] has joined #lisp 09:59:40 "shook my belief that Common Lisp was a profound and special Lisp dialect." 09:59:53 when I got to that I literally LOLed 10:01:11 Sounds like a victim of the overhype effect. 10:01:16 I thought you was special and profound 10:01:40 harish [~harish@12.152.235.2] has joined #lisp 10:02:31 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:04:48 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:06:36 Ruby, what else. 10:06:44 ccomendant [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ccomendant] has joined #lisp 10:08:41 -!- setekhid [~setekhid@223.65.13.127] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:47 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 10:12:38 I thought Ruby would be derivative/uninteresting from fundamentals and banal. It was but it has other stuff to make up for it, if you can stomach the overall culture. 10:13:37 It's too painful to type. Too much syntax. 10:14:34 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 10:14:56 Success story: a math grad is excited about lisp because his programs -- even written in a rather rudimentary way -- are faster than Sage, the open source computer algebra system, and Python for some algebraic combinatorics problems 10:15:02 I'm not sure if it still is, but when I used it, it was extremely slow as well 10:15:18 "i thought i would have to write this in C" 10:15:33 (ruby, that is) 10:15:54 -!- gko [~gko@42.71.218.79] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.4.1] 10:15:56 Did he try maxima? 10:16:38 pjb, No, because Maxima didn't have some of the appropriate packages that would make the Maxima language worth using 10:17:51 (on that note though, in my experience, Maxima outperforms Mathematica speed-wise in many things) 10:18:52 yeah Rubyist have concerns that are more focused on product delivery. Unless I'm mistaken they explicitly say they're not interested in performance as long as it's acceptable. 10:19:33 in general 10:20:06 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.5.44] has joined #lisp 10:20:46 -!- linsy [~ev@462977126.samara.svrv.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:22:28 a general non-professional dilletante lang culture like lisp, C/C++, Java, etc. will have a limitless appetite for efficiency typically to a greater or lesser extent 10:23:26 RenJuan: That is pure gibberish. 10:24:34 ruby is poopy 10:25:24 well I used the term "professional dilettante" which is an idiosyncratic expression of my invention and implictly assign it to the Rubyists but otherwise, no it isn't 10:25:33 I don't understand at all how C/C++ or Java fit into a "dilletante lang culture" 10:25:41 or non-professional 10:25:52 wat. 10:25:55 or what's "limitless to a greater or lesser extent" might mean. 10:26:17 how does gnu octave compare? 10:26:25 Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 10:26:34 ezakimak: completely different domain. 10:27:00 To a lesser or greater extent, it will be more of less for general cultures in a limitless fashion. 10:27:40 -!- Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has left #lisp 10:27:45 that there's probably an ordering of the given ones like c/c++ > lisp > java 10:28:08 i thought octave did the same thing as sage 10:28:15 no 10:31:01 sage and maxima both are inspired by macsyma I believe, octave matlab or something 10:31:39 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 10:31:49 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:33:26 Sage is not inspired by Macsyma. 10:33:48 Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 10:34:16 Maxima was derived from a version of Macsyma under control of the United States's Department of Energy, contributed to open source much. 10:34:23 -much 10:35:00 madmuppet006 [~user@122-62-124-247.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:35:51 yes, wiki says sage alternative to matlab et. al. 10:36:38 Instead, go to the Sage page, and look at their mission statement, 10:36:39 . 10:36:56 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 10:38:18 more like a feature/feature set vs. a facility/platform, and I don't need another one of those. Did go to site, see it's pythong 10:39:26 looks like the pythong octave, presumably better maintained 10:40:02 -!- Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has left #lisp 10:40:29 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.97.1] 10:41:46 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:06 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 10:44:26 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 10:45:39 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:47:06 there's only gnu octave? Wasn't it originally in lisp? 10:47:25 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:51 saage [~saage@200.181.251.218] has joined #lisp 10:50:52 -!- saage [~saage@200.181.251.218] has quit [Changing host] 10:50:52 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 10:51:00 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.5.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:58:34 saage_ [~saage@200.181.251.218] has joined #lisp 11:00:49 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.40.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:01:38 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:02:16 pnq [~nick@ACA21D75.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:04:03 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.5.44] has joined #lisp 11:07:09 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:08:36 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.5.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:09:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:09:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:14:23 -!- arrsim [~user@2001:44b8:415c:cc01:a800:4ff:fe00:a04] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:14:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:23:40 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A156.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:57 -!- schmx [~marcus@c83-254-190-169.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:25:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-64-29.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 11:25:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-64-29.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 11:25:30 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:26:24 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:26:31 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 11:32:58 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA102C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:33:36 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: guyal] 11:35:23 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:36:37 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-244-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 11:45:23 -!- harish [~harish@12.152.235.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:45:38 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 11:47:35 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:51:17 hlavaty [~user@91-64-129-220-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:52:39 -!- hitecnologys [~noname@94.137.25.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:53:23 hitecnologys [~noname@94.137.25.56] has joined #lisp 11:53:25 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:59:33 replore [~replore@FL1-125-198-49-191.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 12:00:35 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:00:59 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128148102.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 12:03:27 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:06:10 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA102C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:06:19 arrsim [~user@ppp118-209-183-105.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:50 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:46 c0rnel [~c0rnel___@89.121.200.106] has joined #lisp 12:14:01 hello all 12:14:14 how good is lisp for learning neural networks? 12:14:35 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 12:14:45 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:15:42 Peter Norvig: "Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp" may help 12:15:53 ezakimak, thank you 12:16:23 i *believe* it's the best but haven't seen a neural network book in the last 12 years 12:16:42 check out cliki.net 12:16:43 and there are some that say that matlab is better 12:16:56 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:17:09 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA102C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:18:08 There's nothing special about lisp with respect to ANN. 12:18:21 Zhivago, no? 12:18:31 Yes. 12:18:45 i remember that 12 years ago lisp was used in the books i've read about it 12:18:58 about NN 12:19:10 So what? 12:19:16 so any decent language is fine for that? 12:19:20 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 12:19:31 Sure. 12:19:40 Zhivago, thank you 12:19:42 It's just about weighted graphs. 12:19:54 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 12:20:25 There's no reason not to use lisp for it. 12:23:48 amgarching [~matveev@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 12:25:05 hi, how do I join closing brackets at the end of a funciton in emacs? E.g. ...))\n))\n\n)\n -> ...))))) 12:25:54 amgarching: using paredit, I can just start mashing ), and it'll bring in parens from lower lines and close extra spacing. 12:26:14 I wonder if there's a better way, though :) 12:27:00 -!- udzinari is now known as |42| 12:27:18 <|42|> does sbcl have TCO? or ccl.. 12:27:50 both implement it. The circumstances in which it's enabled are implementation dependent. 12:28:08 <|42|> thanks 12:28:36 |42|: don't rely on it. use iteration instead of recursion with cl. tco is purely an optimization in this language. 12:28:58 <|42|> so loop > recursion? 12:29:10 |42|: not in general, but for iterative things, yes. 12:29:23 |42|: or dotimes, dolist, map* 12:29:34 I am using paredit, sykopomp, dont know the command/key binding for that 12:29:46 amgarching: just mash ) 12:30:07 put the line at the last atom of your sexp, and start pressing ) until all the parens end up where they have to be 12:30:35 or really, just anywhere inside the sexp. paredit will jump to the end. 12:30:49 Oh, that works, indeed. Isnt ) inserting a new line in some cases? 12:31:18 after the last paren is closed, yes 12:32:40 It also breaks ))))) and inserts a line sometimes. I dont quite get the logic 12:33:27 <|42|> H4ns: I see, map and reduce are good substutes most of the time right.. 12:34:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:34:39 -!- arrsim [~user@ppp118-209-183-105.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:36:18 arrsim [~user@ppp118-209-183-105.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:32 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:44:04 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.101] has joined #lisp 12:44:29 [SLB] [~slabua@host185-170-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:44:30 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host185-170-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 12:44:30 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 12:45:14 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:47:44 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:58 benny` [~benny@i577A1F69.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:54:21 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:54:54 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:55:00 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55:34 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:36 mucker [~mucker@183.83.15.231] has joined #lisp 13:01:05 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:02:20 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:02:55 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:06:20 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:21 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:45 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-192-177.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:46 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-192-177.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:47 -!- gigamonkey_ is now known as gigamonkey 13:20:10 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 13:25:38 paradoja [~paradoja@acceso-cmp174-17.lpa.idec.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:27:12 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-224-65.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 13:29:11 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-158.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:29:17 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:29:35 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:30:35 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-158.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:32:29 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:34:14 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:34:38 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 13:35:57 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Client Quit] 13:38:01 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:42:38 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:46:31 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 13:48:21 sds_ [~sam@cl-pat-tr.clearspring.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:22 dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:28 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:50:45 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:52:47 morning! 13:52:51 teggi [~teggi@113.172.40.96] has joined #lisp 13:53:48 morning 13:54:23 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 13:54:30 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:55:39 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 13:56:03 liers! it is not morning! but hello 13:57:49 hello madnificient 13:58:31 -!- c0rnel [~c0rnel___@89.121.200.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:59:32 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 14:03:15 Im reading the gentle introduction to symbolic programming and I have written some ors as ands etc .. at the momemnt I can do things like (and (> 3 2)(= 4 4)) .. how would I generalize my and so I could use more than two elements? 14:03:35 madmuppet006: you write more than two forms. 14:04:13 benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 14:04:22 pkhuong:what if you dont know how many you are going to need before you start? 14:04:35 clhs every 14:04:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_everyc.htm 14:04:50 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.15.231] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:05:51 thanks 14:06:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:07:20 -!- basho___ [~basho@static.76.144.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:09:47 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 14:10:57 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:11:35 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21D75.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:11:54 -!- benny` [~benny@i577A1F69.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:12:25 madmuppet006, pkhuong: i haven't read gentle, but i'd guess that every might be a bit too much to grok if you've only learned and/or/=/ I'm sure he can figure out if he can handle the truth himself :) 14:14:09 benny` [~benny@i577A1F69.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:14:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:14:43 I wrote a logical and using (and x y) I would like to generalise it so I can (and x y z ...) 14:15:17 -!- __root__0 [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [K-Lined] 14:15:32 The answer is (every #'identity (list x y z ...)). When you can understand why, you'll have learned a lot of lisp :) 14:16:18 -!- paradoja [~paradoja@acceso-cmp174-17.lpa.idec.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.50.3] 14:19:51 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 14:22:03 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:22:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:26:08 -!- replore [~replore@FL1-125-198-49-191.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:45 I find that (some 'null list) conveys the intent a little bit better. 14:26:55 Im reading http://psg.com/~dlamkins/sl/chapter12.html where it is explaining about every it seems it is applying an argument on a list .. what I was thinking about was using an and on more than two elements each one having its own argument ie (and (> 3 2)(= 4 4)(plusp 3)) so Im not sure every applies here 14:28:42 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 14:29:58 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:07 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #lisp 14:31:29 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 14:31:34 Good morning, mad. (UGT! UGT!) Good morning, everyone else. 14:32:04 morning 14:32:05 Oh, that was not a useful abbreviation as we're now rife with mad-ness. 14:33:11 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.129.171] has joined #lisp 14:34:18 madmuppet006: That works. You can ask and about multiple conditions. 14:34:24 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 14:34:32 (and 1 2 3 () 4 5) versus (and 1 2 3 4 5) 14:35:41 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@188.19.212.224] has joined #lisp 14:36:22 ChibaPet: Im trying to write my own version of and .. I can do it for two elements but I would like to generalize it so I can use it on more 14:36:38 Oh, sorry, missed that. =cough= 14:36:40 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:36:50 ChibaPet: without knowing how many before hand 14:37:26 Just for extreme cases, note that there will be an implementation-dependent cap on the number of arguments you can pass a function. 14:37:34 madmuppet006: ah, that's what you meant. A macro always knows the number of arguments when it's expanded, just like functions when they are called. 14:38:47 -!- benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:40:02 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:40:06 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:41:01 pkhuong: I would like to write a helper procedure that would call and as many times as needed but I dont know how to get the information from a non list 14:41:31 ie (and (> 3 2)<-- this part) 14:42:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:43:08 flowfinder [~flowfinde@24.39.127.119] has joined #lisp 14:43:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:44:38 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:45:17 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:47:03 kanru` [~user@61-228-150-180.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:55 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:47:59 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 14:49:21 madmuppet006: what information? 14:49:29 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:51:48 daem0n [~yaargh@host-2-97-255-191.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:49 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@host-2-97-255-191.as13285.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:51:49 daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 14:51:50 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 14:52:11 pkhuong: the comparisons in the and so for (and (> 3 2)(= 3 3)) the (> 3 2) and (= 3 3) are not in a list .. 14:52:34 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has quit [Client Quit] 14:53:52 madmuppet006: are you saying that you want to know how to write variable arity functions or macros? I think you want &rest. 14:54:45 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:55:36 madmuppet006: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_da.htm 14:57:16 naryl:thanks 14:57:44 pkhuong: thanks this looks something like what I was looking for 14:58:09 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-chtlovntvamyfghe] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:58:17 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 14:58:28 madmuppet006: A bit closer: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_dac.htm 14:59:06 naryl: found that one after you gave me first link ..:p 15:00:10 does anyone have any experience with anardb? 15:00:24 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:35 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:00:58 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:01:17 -!- madmuppet006 [~user@122-62-124-247.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:43 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:06:38 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:12:41 dekuked: manardb, you mean? 15:13:37 maybe? It's this http://cl-www.msi.co.jp/projects/anardb/index.html and on cliki it's listed as anardb, but maybe it's a mistake 15:14:12 dekuked: no, the two are different, i think. i didn't know anardb existed 15:14:28 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:14:31 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-tgqvoxddyiqythsd] has joined #lisp 15:14:32 l 15:15:36 but i think /both/ are written by John Fremlin 15:16:48 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:21:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:25:11 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-tgqvoxddyiqythsd] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:29:09 User5302079476 [~Yokodoko@wsip-98-191-130-225.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:18 mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has joined #lisp 15:33:25 n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@178.47.211.72] has joined #lisp 15:34:48 dekuked` [~user@mail.kesnermorrissey.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:51 JuanCarlos of Freenode and Killiondude of Wikipedia is Brandon Killion. His personal cell # is: (530) 207-9476. 15:35:51 15:35:51 His dad is: 15:35:51 15:35:51 Jim D Killion 15:35:53 (530) 669-5708 15:35:55 248 Arlington Cir 15:35:57 Woodland, CA 95695-2878 15:35:59 15:36:01 Mom is Rhonda, and a brother is Seth. 15:36:03 15:36:05 His house is worth about $153,000. 15:36:07 15:36:09 Moreover, he likes to really piss off IP users for things that wouldn't even faze other admins. 15:36:11 15:36:13 [edit] Other lives of Brandon Killion 15:36:15 15:36:19 His dad is a pastor at a megachurch also in Woodland. This is their "About Us" page, and Killiondude is one of the boys in the picture. He's either the tallest or the second-tallest. 15:36:21 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@188.19.212.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:36:22 15:36:24 He may be a pastor's kid, but acts nothing like a real christian on Wikipedia and Freenode. 15:36:26 15:36:28 His dad also owns and runs the "Lord's Gym" in the same town, and their equipment seems badass. 15:36:30 15:36:32 [edit] Killiondude's house 15:36:34 15:36:36 His house appears to be some McMansion in a suburb, with a basketball stand and some trailer right behind it. 15:36:36 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o fe[nl]ix 15:36:38 15:36:40 Sorry to say, but just from the looks of things, Brandon may be spoiled rotten, hence he seems to think pretty little of lowly IP users like the bunch of us. 15:36:43 15:36:44 -!- User5302079476 [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has been kicked from #lisp by fe[nl]ix (User5302079476) 15:36:51 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o fe[nl]ix 15:37:46 -!- dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:38:06 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:09 what was that all about? 15:38:23 Um, it was about Brandon Killion, at a guess. 15:38:43 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 15:40:05 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:41:11 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-jjmnozcuhasfvuux] has joined #lisp 15:43:56 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA102C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:20 b_ [~chatzilla@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:22 SometimesAbused [~AndChat@3.sub-174-254-243.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 15:47:01 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:50:30 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:50:51 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:01:08 smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has joined #lisp 16:01:29 -!- smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has quit [Client Quit] 16:03:00 running lion on the mac. beginning sicp. anyone have recommendations for scheme implementations? 16:08:01 does mit scheme still run on the mac? sicp was written with it in mind. 16:08:10 otherwise, racket definitely works 16:08:42 mind that racket's default language's cons is immutable - you have to require a compatibility mode to have the mutable kind. 16:08:50 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:10:29 flowfinder: you're better off asking #scheme, since this channel is about Common Lisp. Unless you want to run through SICP using CL :) 16:10:44 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:01 sykopomp: d'oh. thanks. 16:12:59 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 16:14:14 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:31 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 16:17:32 flowfinder: I seem to remember that Racket has an explicitly SICP-compatibility mode. You'll want to find out about it. Asking in #racket might be a good idea. 16:18:16 ChibaPet: Thanks. Someone sent me to a page at neilvandyke.org and I'm reading about that compatibility mode right now. 16:18:36 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:18:50 ChibaPet: But I will pay a visit to #racket, for installation instructions. 16:18:55 ChibaPet: Thanks for the tip. 16:20:37 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@p5B0C4DC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:10 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:21:32 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-jjmnozcuhasfvuux] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:21:52 -!- hitecnologys [~noname@94.137.25.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:22:49 hitecnologys [~noname@94.137.25.56] has joined #lisp 16:24:00 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 16:24:11 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.202] has joined #lisp 16:24:13 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:32 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 16:26:51 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:09 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:20 lony [~user@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:27:37 -!- lony [~user@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 16:30:25 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:30:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-64-29.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 16:30:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-64-29.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 16:30:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:30:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 16:31:02 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 16:32:04 -!- mvilleneuve__ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:33:15 dash [~washort@hactar.greyface.org] has joined #lisp 16:35:25 -!- ccomendant [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ccomendant] has left #lisp 16:36:09 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:36:36 -!- dca [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:43 dca [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #lisp 16:42:32 -!- lopin [~pierre_lo@47887hd53015.ikexpress.com] has quit [] 16:44:16 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:45:02 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.40.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:18 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:46:55 pnpuff [~uu@host181-255-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:46:55 -!- pnpuff [~uu@host181-255-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 16:46:55 pnpuff [~uu@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:48:55 -!- philcrissman_ [~philcriss@c-174-53-217-149.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:16 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@88.205.227.160] has joined #lisp 16:52:17 is there a function to check to see if a character is part of a string? 16:52:19 -!- n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@178.47.211.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:52:19 or do I need to write my own? 16:52:47 oh, member. 16:53:20 no, find. 16:53:30 member only works on lists. 16:54:16 thanks! 16:54:24 Hey, guys, is there's an alternative to (nconc) that can append data to empty lists(nil)? 16:54:40 Or how can I do it without (push) and (reverse) then? 16:55:27 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA102C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:55:44 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-117-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:11 naiv_ [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-151-27.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:56:13 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-kolzrlrvoywcguzn] has joined #lisp 16:56:26 what do you mean an alternative to nconc that can append to empty lists? 16:56:55 you shouldn't use nconc for its side-effect. You need to capture the return value. 16:57:00 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@p5B0C4DC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:57:18 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:57:40 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:08 hitecnologys: I recommend you start capturing your lists, instead of side-effecting them like that. You *can* setf the last cdr, if you really insist on that approach. 16:58:50 So, better to use recursive function or what? 16:58:53 -!- naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-235-84.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:59:08 hitecnologys: no, create a new list, and save that list in a variable or slot or whatever. 16:59:15 or do it recursively, if you want. 16:59:28 Okay. Let's try. 17:00:37 Thanks. 17:02:00 tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 17:02:30 -!- dash [~washort@hactar.greyface.org] has left #lisp 17:06:44 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:08:54 ozialien [~ozi@ma22736d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:39 Is there any way to cut the leading character from a string? 17:09:48 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 17:09:48 like, the cdr of a string. 17:10:22 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:11:09 TimKack` [~user@c-2ec22a2f-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 17:11:21 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:11:34 djanatyn: (subseq "hello" 1) 17:12:19 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec2b126-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:12:27 sorry, I should be looking at the hyperspec :) 17:13:48 -!- b_ 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20:17:45 pnq [~nick@ACA246D1.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:20:14 ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:21 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:27:23 ugh, I was looking into trying to use sbcl on dragonfly and found this: http://bugs.dragonflybsd.org/issues/2367 and I'm way to stupid to fix that 20:27:24 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04df7f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:27:27 too* 20:28:24 -!- ozialien [~ozi@ma22736d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:21 -!- mel0on` [~user@h-72-75.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:15 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04df7f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:44 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:34:25 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@80.202.200.233] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:35:42 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-181-38.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:36:35 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:39:10 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 20:44:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-84.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:32 dekuked: sbcl does some unusual stuff with memory maps, it used to crash Xen too 20:45:38 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 20:46:44 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04df7f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:47:51 fe[nl]ix: error handling is more likely to tickle int 3 handling code. 20:48:31 -!- SometimesAbused [~AndChat@3.sub-174-254-243.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:49:57 fe[nl]ix: what do you mean it used to crash xen? would sbcl code in a guest cause it to crash? 20:50:51 dekuked: Xen version 2 used to crash when starting an sbcl process inside it. that was fixed in version 3 20:51:44 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.56.10] has joined #lisp 20:52:41 -!- flowfinder [~flowfinde@24.39.127.119] has left #lisp 20:53:15 -!- lduros [~lduros@fsf/member/lduros] has left #lisp 20:57:02 -!- pnpuff [~uu@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: (list :d 'f :i 'i :c 'g :a 'a)] 20:57:22 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.56.10] has left #lisp 21:00:43 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:48 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:01:01 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 21:01:05 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:01:51 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:05:16 pinburious [~AndChat@38.sub-174-253-133.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 21:09:57 ASau``` [~user@93-80-219-28.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 21:11:40 ebobby [~fms@50-0-172-141.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:41 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:48 -!- ASau`` [~user@176.14.167.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:14:16 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 21:18:21 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-3-87.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:57 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:22:49 harish [~harish@66.238.205.124.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:40 igndsi [~1arg0@host86-173-108-244.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:27:07 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA102C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:32 hi 21:27:55 anybody know a good start tutorial for lisp and ubuntu? 21:29:13 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-176-58.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:13 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-176-58.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:29:13 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 21:30:26 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:39 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:31:34 igndsi: http://common-lisp.net/project/lispbox/ http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ is a pretty fast way of getting started 21:32:53 finnrobi, tnx 21:33:31 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:53 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:34:43 finnrobi, sorry if i'm impolite, but do you work with lisp? 21:36:27 ozialien [~ozi@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:24 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:38:31 -!- dekuked [~user@mail.kesnermorrissey.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:38:52 igndsi: http://cliki.net/Getting+Started 21:41:46 igndsi, any of us here do 21:42:10 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 21:45:05 gigamonkey: hi 21:45:47 Hello. 21:45:58 vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 21:46:05 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:46:12 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:35 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.7.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:46:49 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 21:46:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:41 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:50:03 -!- mrbrown [~andy@82-196-173-37.bb.systeamnat.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:51:58 Any particular reason why (on SBCL) the nth 2 of elements returned by closer-mop:class-direct-default-initargs are # e.g. (closer-mop:class-direct-default-initargs (find-class 'baz)) => ((:FOO 42 #) (:BAR NIL #)) 21:57:05 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57:11 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has joined #lisp 21:58:45 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:00:14 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.11.195] has joined #lisp 22:00:14 clhs read-sequence 22:00:15 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_seq.htm 22:00:50 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:07:49 -!- sds_ [~sam@cl-pat-tr.clearspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:07:57 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-117-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:08:44 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-4d012ea8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:09:12 ASau```` [~user@93-80-255-32.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:10:09 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:10:25 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 22:12:56 ASau````` [~user@93-80-194-47.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:13:07 -!- ASau``` [~user@93-80-219-28.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping 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[Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:19:04 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:19:14 mon_key, a closure is a way to implement functions. 22:20:17 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:21:38 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb119-74-178-124.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:24:35 -!- ASau````` is now known as ASau 22:27:22 lifeng [~lifeng@bb119-74-178-124.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 22:30:47 Fare: yes, just wondering if it was an optimization or something; inspecting it from the repl shows the closure as (LAMBDA # :IN CONSTANTLY) as compared to # hi, how does lisp handle null point exceptions? 22:32:57 mon_key, sbcl has several levels of compilation, and might not be using the same at the repl and while compiling a file. 22:33:09 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:33:10 zezikaro, it avoids them entirely 22:33:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:33:32 zezikaro, unless you're specifically escaping lisp to generate them 22:33:47 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-192-177.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 22:34:07 or if there's a bug in a C runtime somewhere 22:34:51 or a bug in the kernel 22:35:00 or a bug in the hardware 22:35:05 or a bug in the universe 22:35:10 obviously. 22:35:57 or a metaphysical bug in the notion of bug 22:36:26 well there is also the closest lisp equivalent to a null-pointer exception, which is trying to use nil as if it were something else; that usually signals a type-error, right? 22:37:02 Wouldn't be very much different from other type-errors, though. 22:37:19 nil exists? 22:37:44 yes, but it doesn't mean memory location zero. 22:37:55 so foo = nil 22:38:00 in lisp is fine? 22:38:06 or 'return nil' 22:38:12 (i don't know the specific syntax sorry) 22:38:35 Sure. But I'm not sure why you're asking, since C programs do that with NULL all the time. 22:38:45 i just wondered 22:38:50 haksell has 'maybe' 22:39:01 Maybe, rather 22:39:09 i just wondered if it were the same for lisp 22:39:58 zezikaro: lisp is more dynamically typed then Haskell, and also doesn't enforce functional purity 22:39:59 -!- pbgc [~pbgc@2.81.191.137] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 22:40:00 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:41:53 antonv [5d7d3142@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.66] has joined #lisp 22:42:47 But nothing prevents you to define a maybe type. 22:43:04 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:09 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:10 and similarly nothing prevents you from declaring that a particular function won't return nil 22:43:24 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 22:44:55 zezikaro: nil in lisp is a symbol just like foo or car. cl:nil is defined as a constant variable having as value the symbol cl:nil. 22:45:41 zezikaro: so when you return nil, assuming it's cl:nil, it evaluates to the symbol cl:nil and that is what is returned: there's no null pointer, since there's no pointer in lisp. 22:46:21 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA246D1.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:52 Fare: Ok. Thanks for the input. 22:47:56 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:48:32 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 22:48:33 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442267.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:48:53 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442267.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:49:41 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-113-159.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:51:18 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:52:21 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:53:20 -!- ebobby [~fms@50-0-172-141.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:56:10 lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab4b8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:34 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: trivial-irc-0.0.3] 22:58:24 janpaulbultmann [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 23:00:57 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:02:10 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 23:02:17 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:45 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:05:56 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.202] has joined #lisp 23:08:22 -!- harish [~harish@66.238.205.124.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:08:44 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:08:55 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-14-255.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:09:18 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:52 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 23:12:41 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-113-159.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:04 flowfinder_ [~flowfinde@pool-68-237-206-134.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:06 flowfinder [~flowfinde@24.39.127.119] has joined #lisp 23:15:10 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 23:15:56 arrsim` [~user@128.250.116.167] has joined #lisp 23:17:36 -!- flowfinder_ [~flowfinde@pool-68-237-206-134.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:18:46 -!- antonv [5d7d3142@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:20:17 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:20:34 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:20:51 -!- TimKack` [~user@c-2ec22a2f-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:22:15 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:22:48 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:45 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 23:33:34 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.156.56.161] has joined #lisp 23:35:34 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-192-177.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:03 DDR_ [~chatzilla@d66-183-113-159.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:37 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:54 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-113-159.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:39:00 -!- DDR_ is now known as DDR 23:39:51 xach: https://picasaweb.google.com/108564127390615114635/BostonLispMeeting20210517 23:43:03 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-64-129-220-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:46:47 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:14 slyrus [~chatzilla@dsl081-060-042.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:38 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-192-177.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 23:56:30 Fare: xach is mia 23:56:45 how that mia? 23:56:51 anything serious? 23:57:02 or just away right now 23:57:50 Fare: just hasn't shown up according to my logs in a week or so. 23:58:12 oh, ok 23:58:23 got a mail from him a week ago 23:58:29 I hope everything's a-ok 23:58:48 dfox [~dfox@89.177.105.49] has joined #lisp 23:58:57 antonv [5d7d3142@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.66] has joined #lisp 23:59:54 oh man. I wish I were still in MA :(