00:00:00 clhs knows! 00:00:00 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for knows!. 00:00:04 clhs reference 00:00:04 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for reference. 00:00:16 I have no idea how to tell specbot to search the glossary 00:00:38 not a problem, i can read theclhs glossary on that 00:01:42 an act or occurrence of referring to an object, a binding, an exit point, a tag, or an environment. 00:02:12 -!- Guthur` [~user@212.183.128.154] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:30 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:06:40 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:21 aesundstrom [~aesundstr@cpe-74-73-233-110.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:35 what modern libraries have commonlisp bindings 00:11:09 daem0n [~yaargh@host-84-13-252-6.opaltelecom.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:10 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@host-84-13-252-6.opaltelecom.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:11:10 daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 00:13:23 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-25-97.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:13:36 ceti331_: building a binding to libraries exporting ANSI C compatible interfaces isn't too hard 00:13:56 C++ is PITA 00:14:04 i can only code c++ 00:14:08 and C 00:14:17 what's pita? 00:14:23 PainInTheArse 00:14:27 o yes 00:14:44 ceti331_: anyone who says they know C++ is deluding themselves 00:15:18 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:15:22 smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has joined #lisp 00:15:23 i'm a C coder who uses a lot of convinient features in C++ like templates as better macros 00:15:43 C++ is a PITA to write bindings to. Especially when you're not using ECL compiled with the exact same *C++* compiler as the library you're linking to 00:16:19 well, theoretically, it's easy as long as you don't have exceptions 00:16:55 so  extern "C" {  } to increase the probability of something being bindable? 00:17:03 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 00:17:18 *p_l* still remembers bits and pieces of Itanium ABI and could probably attack writing direct-calling virtual methods from memory... 00:17:35 -!- smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has quit [Client Quit] 00:17:41 ceti331_: yeah. And no exceptions going outside 00:17:54 a language where (x+++++++++y) is a valid expression is one I'd like to stay away from 00:18:09 hahaahaha 00:18:13 at least not on Itanium ABI. Might work with MSVC thanks to SEH 00:19:01 SEH=? 00:19:08 adu: ... how one is supposed to parse that... is it ((x++)++) etc? 00:19:22 i think so 00:19:25 I don't know i haven't tried it 00:19:27 ceti331_: Structured Exception Handling. NT's system-wide exception system 00:19:29 the final is a binary + 00:19:41 i have never used c++ exceptions 00:19:46 (defun x+++++++++y () 'valid) (x+++++++++y) --> VALID 00:20:05 p_l: but it could be x post-increamented once plus y pre-incremented 3 times 00:20:18 or x post-incremented twice plus y pre-incremented twice 00:20:34 (defun |(x+++++++++y)| nil 'valid) ;) 00:20:35 or x post-incremented 3 times plus y pre-incremented once 00:20:54 p_l: (|(x+++++++++y)|) wasn't the requirement! 00:21:00 (x+++++++++y) was the requirement. 00:21:44 adu: I think the standard describes the way it should be interpreted... I'm not sure if the memory model allows that, though 00:21:47 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:23 ceti331_: also, in C, f(x) can only mean 3 things: direct function call, indirect function call, or macro replacement 00:23:45 ceti331_: in C++ f(x) can mean approximately 200 things 00:24:08 i have heard C++ criticized for the number of ambiguities in syntax 00:24:25 it impedes maintainability 00:24:27 by objective C advocates 00:24:33 I hate objc 00:24:44 i.e. objective C's object model has unambiguous syntax. 00:24:51 adu: you like Smalltalk? You like C? You should LOVE Objective-C ! 00:24:55 I have to say - I often code schizophrenically 00:25:02 Now, let's talk about Objective-C++ :-) 00:25:04 objc object model requires every function call be a string lookup 00:25:10 adu: the upper limit on amount of meanings of f(x) in C++ is unbounded 00:25:15 adu: no. 00:25:20 i oscilate between C++ member functions and C style interfaces in C++ (ie.. functions, with overloading) 00:25:30 adu: a string lookup couldn't be done in the same time as two JSR. 00:25:52 ok, maybe it's been optimized over the years 00:25:59 no. 00:26:04 hahah which room was I in where someone didn't beleive me that ObjectiveC++ exists :) 00:26:09 It has always been the case, since the creation of the language. 00:26:24 ceti331_: I'm well aware of Objective-C++, I just don't use it 00:26:30 adu: Obj-C afaik only requires the ability to match the symbol in class' method table 00:26:45 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 00:26:52 don't exactly know how it's done, and pretty sure they can use the same caching methods as everyone else 00:27:05 i've used Objective C++ because I was simply using a minimal amount of stubs in objective-C to call a C++ project 00:27:06 p_l: I think in the beginning it was string lookup 00:27:42 pnq [~nick@ACA24512.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:27:50 adu: C++ also has string lookup, btw. Mandated by Itanium ABI at least (that's what G++ uses) 00:28:00 it's just not required to be used by calls 00:28:39 and well, the standard only includes half of it, because mechanics of going from mangled name to memory reference are platform specific 00:28:43 I thought it was reverse 00:28:54 hmm... oh well, it might have been 00:28:58 you could go from pointer -> mangled string 00:29:03 been a bit since I delved there 00:29:15 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:29:18 but there was either mangled name -> unmangled, or the reverse operation 00:29:21 GoLang has that too 00:31:01 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:33:09 still, if you can dump the tables from C++ compiler generating bindings is not so hard... except for exceptions 00:33:31 I guess I tried too much when I sat down at it, because I fried my brain when I got to exceptions 00:34:31 kanru` [~user@61-228-145-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:22 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-46-132.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:38:17 -!- kmcorbett1 [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:20 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:42:39 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.12.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:42:48 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839736.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:43:45 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 00:45:44 what is the "value of a reference"? 00:46:24 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:24 (let ((x 2)) print x) 00:46:39 what happens when a garbage collected language interfaces with a manual memory lanugage 00:46:41 sorry, (let ((x 2)) (print x)) 00:47:05 there are restrictions on how pointers can be exposed? 00:47:15 in (print x), the value of the variable x is evaluated, right? 00:47:31 and that variable is a reference to the object "2", right? 00:48:28 so what is the value of the "reference to the object "2""? 00:49:14 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-244-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:17 is "the value of the reference to an object" actually also "the value of the object"? 00:50:38 is this thing on? 00:50:58 this sentence is false. 00:51:44 (smullyan, anyone?) 00:52:35 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:04 cpc261 [~Adium@50.55.159.73] has joined #lisp 00:53:58 ? 00:54:10 ok, have a nice vacation everyone. 00:54:30 even if your language is weird. 00:54:38 -!- cpc26 [~Adium@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:55:10 Yamazaki1kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 00:56:47 yates: when you say (print x) the reference is the variable binding named by x and the value is the thing the reference points to 00:56:48 dto [~dto@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:00 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:57:03 -!- Yamazaki1kun is now known as Yamazaki-kun 00:57:30 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [Client Quit] 00:57:49 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 00:58:09 gigamonkey: ok, but then that means this statement, from PCL, is false: "All values in Common Lisp are, conceptually at 00:58:09 least, references to objects." 00:58:53 is its value the reference, or the thing the reference points to? that seems to be the question i'm asking. 01:00:53 for example, consider "NAME_T* name_p; NAME_T name; name_p = &name" in C. 01:01:13 the "value" of name_p is a number (the address of "name"). 01:01:25 but that's not what is meant here? 01:03:47 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has joined #lisp 01:04:20 perhaps that statement from PCL was worded somewhat imprecisely? 01:05:36 "All variables in Common Lisp hold references to objects, and the value of the variable is the value of the object referred to." 01:05:53 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-4d0116fb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:23 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:38 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA24512.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:08:23 Is that statement correct? 01:08:40 (or nearly correct in most cases.. ?) 01:08:47 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75fc73.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:10:21 just think of lisp as you do of java 01:10:31 maxm-: i don't know java 01:10:36 pretty much same thing.. as with all GC type languages 01:10:38 oh 01:11:25 i've stated how i'm thinking of it - is it correct or not? 01:11:43 "All variables in Common Lisp hold references to objects, and the value of the variable is the value of the object referred to." 01:11:45 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:12:04 references are basically pointers. Except in GC type languages, these pointers are "tagged", so some of them may not be pointers, but may be immediate objects, such as integers 01:12:17 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 01:12:28 ie why have a pointer pointing to a bit, if the pointer is much larger then a bit, right? 01:12:30 Well, why are you asking this? I don't understand what sort of distinction you're trying to make. 01:12:50 so pointers are tagged, with a tag, to know what they are pointing too 01:13:00 or if they are immediate objects such as fixnums 01:13:20 Bike: I am trying to understand what variables mean in lisp and how they are used. 01:13:23 variable is a place where pointer is stored.. 01:14:03 maxm-: that is essentially (actually in a more implementation-specific way) what i stated, is it not? 01:14:06 "All variables in Common Lisp hold references to objects, and the value of the variable is the value of the object referred to." 01:14:10 so technically (let ((a ..expression..)) ...body...) a will in most general case be a new pointer, pointing to whatever ..expression.. returned 01:14:58 yes. 01:15:05 i see/agree. 01:15:16 yates: I guess, altho I'm missing formal CS education so i'm afraid to misuse the terms "value" and such, since I have no idea what they teach kids these days 01:15:30 I call it as it works underneath 01:16:29 well, i'm from the practical side as well, although i do have a degree in math (and thus am comfortable with abstractions) 01:17:29 first degree was from DeVry, where we designed, drilled, and populated our own circuit boards for a receiver (in addition to other things, of course). 01:18:39 (and taped out/acid-bath-etched) 01:18:44 second degree is BSEE, third is BA Math. 01:19:21 maxm-: it would be "interesting" to go take a modern CS course... 01:20:10 *maxm-* has respect for people who do math.. I've went into "completely forgotten algebra" mode, and now have to forcefully re-stuff math it into my aging brain 01:20:47 maxm-: don't "respect" - just put in my time with the books, that's all. 01:21:26 maxm-: try "abstract algebra"! 01:21:41 (AKA modern algebra) 01:22:19 cool stuff, but gets a little difficult around Galois theory and finite fields... 01:23:46 -!- antonv [5d7d3142@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:23:57 completely beyond my level, I'll consider myself re-introduced to math once I can skim through quantative finance papers without decyphiring each page for hours 01:24:12 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has joined #lisp 01:24:27 maxm-: we all crawled before we walked. 01:24:50 in fact i am constantly relearning how to crawl, it seems! 01:25:33 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:05 maxm-: like the Black-Scholes equation? 01:27:30 pnq [~nick@172.129.5.28] has joined #lisp 01:27:50 I can't re-create it by hand from the random walk, or even remember it without but I know what it is, and how it looks like on the chart 01:28:48 cool. 01:28:54 *maxm-* is playing with option algorithmics every trading day, so far human 1 > computers with blash sholes 0 01:28:55 more than i. 01:29:20 maxm-: funny, i've had two friends in the last 6 months try to get me into options trading.. 01:29:30 playing as in writing naked calls then squirming trying to delta-hedge if it goes against me too close 01:29:48 it looks identical to gambling from my viewpoint 01:30:12 yates: it generally works, as long as you don't let yourself write/sell so much stuff, that in the worse case scenario you can't cover it 01:30:49 what's the long-term average gain? 01:31:25 one of those friends went up a 100k, down 300k, and is now about 5 percent up from where he was 3 years ago... 01:31:42 optionsmart.com? 01:31:47 that what JPM currently did.. guy naked with power (london whale) saw economy improving, snorted some coke, and sold tons of derivatives (they were not technically options).. Economy softened, it went against him, now they basically looking at unlimited losses if economy really worsens 01:32:45 yates: I'm not trading long enough to be statistically significant.. Ppl in hedge funds want 3-4 years of consistent returns before they will fund one's model 01:32:58 *maxm-* is only doing it for a year or so 01:33:08 i spose you have a day job? :) 01:33:48 no lost it, finally had some time to trade (always wanted to do it, but quickly learned if you want to play with big boys, have to pay attention all day) 01:34:07 *maxm-* is trying to write a lisp-powered tradestation type app 01:35:43 madmuppet006 [~madmuppet@122-62-124-247.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:36:00 one question i've always had about trading is this: prices of stocks and other types of invesment can be viewed as a signal. buying some service gets you access to samples of that signal. What is the actual signal bandwidth? That will dictate how fast you must sample in order to accurately know the signal. 01:36:17 basic DSP 101. 01:36:50 i've often thought that you could treat it as an audio signal 01:37:19 methinks the bandwidth is really, really high - that's why some folks have spent a fortunte getting computers physically close to Wallstreet, to maximize bandwidth and minimize delay. 01:37:34 yates: there are lots of academic papers written about it, thing is once someone notices a pattern, they start to trade it, become succussful, and erase their own advantage 01:38:08 yates: there's actually a Lisp company doing super-fast trading with FPGAs 01:38:47 ie someone noticed that when 10 day moving average crosses above 20 day moving average, you buy, then sell later, and you make money. As more and more ppl start doing it, some guys sold earlier for tiny profit, some sold later for bigger one, some held too long, and market turned against them (reverted to mean) 01:40:08 -!- aesundstrom [~aesundstr@cpe-74-73-233-110.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 01:40:22 as a result ppl started getting out earlier and earlier after 10 MA crosses 20.. Getting out earlier means selling, which basically means price does not rise as much.. So once everyone is doing it, the signal disappears, because ppl trading the stratagy , just made the market more efficient by supporting the market when it was down, and selling when it was up 01:40:48 flattens it out 01:40:56 yeah, but basically the quickest ones have the advantage, i would think 01:41:25 it's too costly to compete on that scale imo--to get a sub milisecond access to the data is millions 01:41:26 it got to the point where you can cheat by manipulating latency 01:41:34 if you only get fed a price a minute, you might totally lose your window 01:41:38 er subsecond 01:42:41 those guys just play the news and do price discovery, that is what killed nasdaq facebook ipo. You can see algos doing price discovery before it opened, and basically crashed nasdaq 01:43:22 what happened? I didn't check it after few hours past IPO 01:45:18 aha. GC is bad: The showstopper was the long pause LISP had to take periodically for garbage collection to recover the memory left behind as programs ran 01:45:20 basically price discovery algorith goes like this: for price = 37.0 to 45.0, order = immedate_or_cancel(price), if executed(order) break; // aha! found at which point someone willing to sell.. 01:45:24 from http://nerdsonwallstreet.com/artificial-intelligence-and-wall-street-trading-309/ 01:47:52 yates: there are at least some real-time lisps, and you can avoid consing... then there's the fact that at least one company uses Lisp-based systems for algorithmic trading :) 01:48:05 ravenpack you mean? 01:48:12 maxm-: novasparks 01:48:31 How do I achieve something like this? 01:48:33 http://paste.lisp.org/display/129664 01:48:53 maxm-: they develop code in CL and compile to VHDL iirc 01:49:06 which is then fed to FPGAs 01:49:29 jack_rabbit: special variables, probably 01:50:13 p_l: thanks for the name, gonna google them tomorrow 01:50:23 maxm-: a friend of mine works there :) 01:50:33 Bike: Thanks. Reading up now. Any suggestions about where to begin? 01:50:46 of course if their models actually works, probably all hints would be deleted by now :-) 01:50:48 Where to begin what, learning or rewriting? 01:51:40 Bike: nevermind. I should learn all of it anyway. 01:52:40 Bike: Can you explain to me why that code doesn't work? 01:52:41 p_l: pump him for info.. When a co-worker said he used to work for a hedge fund, I went into him like bee on honey expecting to learn holy grail type secrets, but it was very mundane and lame.. ie bunch of old boys club, with excel spreadsheet and tons of spagetti visual basic 01:52:44 jack_rabbit: http://paste.lisp.org/+2S1S/1 01:52:47 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:53:11 jack_rabbit: Because bindings are by default lexical, and there's no lexical binding of x and y at the point hte lambda's at. 01:53:59 Bike: that lambda doesn't execute within let's lexical scope? 01:54:44 jack_rabbit: no. Do you know the difference between static and dynamic binding? 01:54:58 Bike: not really. 01:57:29 jack_rabbit: ok. So usually, Lisp uses lexically apparent bindings, so called because they're lexically apparent in the code, e.g., in (let ((a 2)) (lambda () a)), the a in the lambda refers to the a bound in the let. Binding a again later won't matter to that function, it uses the lexically apparent a. 01:57:39 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-31.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:58:20 So if you bind a again within that let, the lambda still refers to the outter a? 01:59:10 So since when I declare that lambda, since x and y aren't bound, lambda can't be evaluated? 01:59:22 (let ((a 2) b) (setf b (lambda () a)) (let ((a 3)) (funcall b)) => 2 01:59:38 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-236.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:59:39 jack_rabbit: Yeah. 01:59:43 Bike: GREAT! Thanks so much. So special does what exactly? 02:00:19 jack_rabbit: Special bindings make it use dynamic binding, more or less. That means that variables refer to however they were last bound at /runtime/ instead of lexically. 02:00:23 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-192-236.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:00:57 cool. Why do you need special in both the lambda declaration and in the let body? 02:02:34 Because otherwise the references in the lambda and the bound variables would be assumed to be lexical. There's a separation, in fact special variables are even usually spelled differently to distinguish them ("*a*" instead of "a") 02:03:18 Thanks. I'll give that a try. 02:03:28 jack_rabbit: the CLHS entries on the SPECIAL declaration, etc. spell this out better. 02:03:41 I'll check them out. 02:03:42 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:53 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 02:04:01 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08:53 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:10:10 what is the difference between a binding and a reference? 02:10:47 Check the glossary? 02:10:59 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 02:11:18 Yep. 02:12:39 Alright, so a binding is the association of a symbol to its value, and a reference is the use of that name? 02:12:59 As far as I know. 02:14:06 -!- pnq [~nick@172.129.5.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:14:40 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:15:38 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 02:16:15 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:17:57 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 02:17:57 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has quit [Client Quit] 02:20:23 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 02:21:44 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-119-23.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 02:24:50 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:26:17 leo2007 [~leo@123.112.99.154] has joined #lisp 02:29:05 copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has joined #lisp 02:30:26 ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has joined #lisp 02:33:11 -!- madmuppet006 [~madmuppet@122-62-124-247.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:56 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:47:26 isson [~isson@27.119.37.49] has joined #lisp 02:49:56 -!- Skola [~Skola@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:50:16 are these libs (http://flownet.com/ron/lisp/) included in quicklisp? 02:50:41 -!- isson [~isson@27.119.37.49] has left #lisp 02:51:58 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 02:55:07 lain_ [~lain@e178075012.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 02:55:10 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has joined #lisp 02:55:35 -!- lain_ [~lain@e178075012.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 02:56:14 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 02:56:18 zophy [~zophy__@24.220.134.233] has joined #lisp 03:05:05 in (let ((post #(80 79 83 84)))), is post a vector? 03:05:35 yep. try type-of or typep. 03:05:41 awesome thanks. 03:06:41 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:59 The type is simple-vector 4. is there some way to "cast" it as simple-array (unsigned-byte 8) 03:11:51 Why do you want to do that? 03:12:45 Well I'm recieving packets with iolib, and they go into a buffer of type simple-array (unsigned-byte 8) 03:12:56 jack_rabbit: (coerce #(1 2 3) '(simple-array (unsigned-byte 8))) 03:13:07 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-219-154.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 03:13:07 Cool. 03:13:34 jack_rabbit: or you could avoid consing altogether and pre-create your buffers, and just copy data over from input, or whatever. 03:14:03 I'll see if iolib will write to vectors instead of arrays. 03:14:27 Is there really any difference between the two beside semantics? They are the same in memory as far as I know. 03:15:08 are they? 03:15:32 -!- cpc261 [~Adium@50.55.159.73] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:17:00 I believe so, yes. Aren't they just type overlays for raw memory arrays? 03:17:17 regular vectors aren't necessarily. 03:17:33 what can vectors hold? 03:17:37 anything 03:17:46 so they'd need to be arrays of pointers. 03:18:12 whereas declaring an array of unsigned-byte 8, I guess gives you the possibility of having those inline. 03:18:25 Ah. well then I think they're still the same as arrays. Perhaps you can't access them if they're of type simple-array 03:19:03 I would bet if you coerced the vector to an array and then back, you could still access the objects at the end of the pointers. 03:20:53 Is there any disadvantage to just using equalp instead of coercing? 03:22:00 using equalp how? 03:22:02 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:22:24 the simple-vector vs the simple-array of ub8? 03:22:27 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 03:22:33 pnq [~nick@ACA3577A.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:22:52 yeah. equal doesn't work, but equalp returns the value I need. 03:23:44 (equal #(1) #(1)) => NIL 03:24:14 *sykopomp* actually wonders about that. 03:24:15 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 03:24:18 Bike: interesting. Why's that. 03:24:20 *sykopomp* goes back to clhs. 03:24:40 ahh. Two arrays are equal only if they are eq, unless they're strings or bit vectors. 03:24:42 jack_rabbit: check CLHS for equal etc 03:24:51 I was confused because (equal "foo" "foo") -> T :) 03:25:10 That's interesting. I wonder why it was implemented that way. 03:25:55 it's about as good a decision as anything else, considering what equal/equalp are, I guess. 03:30:49 I would think, since eq already performs that operation, and based on how equal behaves with strings, that it would behave similarly with vectors. 03:31:17 I duno. 03:32:16 But I'm no person to argue with the likes of language-designers. 03:34:44 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-107-3-142-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:32 -!- angavrilov_ is now known as angavrilov 03:44:06 i used to have slime installed on my own, but have switched over to quicklisp. however, i notice the slime info documentation no longer appears in emacs. any way to get it? 03:44:07 I wonder if it would be allowed for a compiler to turn (equal #(1) #(1)) into T 03:44:15 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #lisp 03:44:18 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-224-219.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:44:52 no 03:45:06 oh 03:45:17 wait, yes. It could, because they're literal objects, right? 03:45:37 that's what I was thinking about 03:46:12 reduce two equalp objects at compile time to one, thus making it EQ as well 03:46:23 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.112.99.154] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.97.1] 03:46:56 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has joined #lisp 03:59:10 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:59:42 s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-197-160.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:40 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:00:54 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:20 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:22 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has joined #lisp 04:21:36 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-31.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:26:45 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:26:51 hitecnologys [~noname@46.233.196.154] has joined #lisp 04:27:22 -!- benny [~benny@i577A83F8.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:30:15 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:41 -!- jake__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 04:47:36 -!- zophy [~zophy__@24.220.134.233] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:50 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-133-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:57:26 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:01:16 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:03:47 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:11:19 ZabaQ [~Zaba@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 05:12:46 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 05:20:43 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:26:52 How can I convert a string to either an array or vector? 05:27:46 Strings are vectors. 05:28:18 I should say an array of octets. 05:29:02 nevermind. I can do this more easily. 05:29:13 I think you want the Babel library. 05:30:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:30:30 Oh wait, flexi-streams:string-to-octets. 05:30:42 harish [~harish@80.187.201.11] has joined #lisp 05:37:14 -!- harish [~harish@80.187.201.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:40:06 benny` [~benny@i577A1892.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:44:11 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 05:44:21 paddington [~andy@82-196-173-37.bb.systeamnat.se] has joined #lisp 05:49:38 schmx [~marcus@c83-254-190-169.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 05:51:58 Pseudomander [~PseudoMan@101.165.37.46] has joined #lisp 05:55:38 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 05:55:56 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:56:06 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: rebooting] 05:56:34 rootyourself [~fekoff@69.172.160.67] has joined #lisp 05:59:18 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.55.18] has joined #lisp 06:01:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-156.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:02:11 Thanks. That was what I was looking for. 06:08:59 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 06:12:48 jiroukaja [~jiroukaja@softbank221094150218.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:46 -!- paddington [~andy@82-196-173-37.bb.systeamnat.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:16:26 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-3-87.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:16:36 -!- lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab4b8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:18:06 lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab4b8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:05 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Quit: ] 06:29:44 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:30:01 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:41:35 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:47:12 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 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() In the Light !!! .] 12:14:08 -!- ceti331_ [~walterlyn@host86-168-6-8.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ceti331_] 12:14:53 picon [~picon@host168-253-dynamic.247-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:16:11 Zemyla [~zemyla@ec2-50-19-77-190.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 12:16:11 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-156.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:16:11 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-147-41.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:16:11 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 12:16:11 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:11 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 12:16:11 galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:11 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 12:16:11 Guest58016 [~user@114-198-37-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:16:11 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 12:16:11 j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:27 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:22:37 b- [~chatzilla@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:23:56 -!- bieber [~quassel@97.97.75.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:26:16 maxm-: i lost the chat log, can you point me where you found cl-store initial buffer allocation of 1024 bytes, I am still trying to understand why it is slower than disk. To me superficially at least its fault of babel-stream write-byte as sbcl's disk stream is faster 12:28:20 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:29:20 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:32:29 Anyone on? 12:34:44 SplinterofChaos: yes 12:35:47 -!- ccomendant [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ccomendant] has left #lisp 12:37:02 hiyosi [~hiyosi@102.124.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:37:28 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 12:44:12 ccomendant [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ccomendant] has joined #lisp 12:45:49 naryl: I'm doing some personal research on programmers. Would you mind taking a test? https://gist.github.com/2795801 12:46:08 Also, that's my first real lisp program. 12:47:16 -!- lain_ [~lain@e178075012.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:47:30 -!- b- [~chatzilla@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120423122928]] 12:47:38 lain_ [~lain@e178095097.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:48:12 b- [~chatzilla@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:48:42 b-: no it currently does not have one.. What I was saying that the buffering needs to be added to CL-STORE.. 12:49:44 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:50:01 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:31 argh.. ok 12:50:33 b-: its the fault of generic dispatch, basically you see the difference between SBCL built-in stream write-byte, which is a tightly optimized function and does its own buffering, and a "virtual" stream implemented via gray-stream protocol, where each write-byte is a CLOS call dispatched through gerenic function metchanism 12:51:39 *maxm-* sent email to cl-store mailing list but so far there been no responses, so I plan to implement the buffering thing in the future myself, just have to get darcs 12:54:20 [SLB] [~slabua@host238-163-dynamic.3-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:54:20 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host238-163-dynamic.3-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 12:54:20 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 12:54:46 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 12:54:58 understand 12:58:08 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:59:56 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:45 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 13:13:35 -!- lain_ [~lain@e178095097.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:17:32 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:55 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:31 -!- antonv [5d7d3142@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:26:24 -!- b- [~chatzilla@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:31:00 cpc26 [~Adium@50.55.159.73] has joined #lisp 13:31:00 -!- cpc26 [~Adium@50.55.159.73] has quit [Changing host] 13:31:01 cpc26 [~Adium@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 13:36:05 SplinterofChaos: I passed the test: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129671 ; what do I earn? 13:43:22 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:44:33 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 13:45:14 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:17 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:49:03 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 13:54:52 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-219-0-207.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:55:08 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host85-230-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:18 zophy [~zophy__@24.220.134.233] has joined #lisp 13:57:31 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:59:40 -!- cpc26 [~Adium@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:59:58 ceti331_ [~walterlyn@host86-168-6-8.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:18 pjb: I think that might be fail 14:00:24 stop programming now 14:00:59 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 14:02:35 umm, seems my English is a fail as well 14:05:13 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:08:01 -!- zophy [~zophy__@24.220.134.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:08:50 -!- ASau`` [~user@95-24-231-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:10:13 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:53 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:39 -!- Brucio-92 [~Brucio-92@p1123-ipbf2803hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 14:15:21 pjb: Damn, a bug slipped by... 14:16:04 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-24-13-250-216.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:46 Looks like i'm not doing case-insensitive checking... 14:17:19 -!- ccomendant [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ccomendant] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:18:59 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-161-110.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:03 pjb: Fixed: https://gist.github.com/2795801 14:21:00 You don't earn anything for the test, but maybe some insight into how you think. 14:21:28 zophy [~zophy__@24.220.134.233] has joined #lisp 14:21:37 http://paste.lisp.org/display/129671#1 14:22:11 well hardly, I gave random answers since the questions were occult. 14:23:29 ... Doesn't help me much. 14:23:45 Your program should print the words. 14:23:54 and at the end, it should draw the graphs. 14:24:15 And the url should be printed when run, not left in comments. 14:24:16 That was my first attempt, using cl-popen, but it didn't work. 14:24:56 You can copy-and-paste them. Otherwise the implementation notes (chapter about sockets) contain examples of web I/O. 14:25:20 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:25:47 hi guys 14:27:33 There's no need to go that deep with this. Anyone i ask to take the test will be given a link to that website anyway. That way they have some background. 14:28:04 Though, i would like to figure out how to draw that graph at the end... 14:28:20 SO you're testing their ability to match a question number with a list of words on a web page identified by same number. 14:28:35 Sounds quite different from what the web page announces. 14:28:54 No, they don't need my program to take the test. 14:29:00 I implemented it for fun. 14:29:05 Posterdati [~tapioca@host85-230-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:29:12 Ok a useless program. Good. :-) 14:29:14 I just need the results for my research. 14:30:19 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:56 Not entirely useless, though. Taking the test otherwise requires 15 minutes, a piece of paper and pencil. 14:31:16 And it's easy to fuck up calculating the results. 14:33:48 I had forgotten, whats the consensus on non-destructive mapcan, (apply 'append (mapcar 'obj-some-list *objects*)) ? 14:34:02 or does alexandria has something 14:36:21 maxm-: (loop for x in *objects* append (obj-some-list x)) 14:36:24 what's wrong with that? 14:36:44 thought there was something about arg limits etc 14:36:59 ahh yea loop is fine 14:37:45 (obviously a nondestructive mapcan would have been shorter in this particular case, but in the abscense of such... 14:38:17 *maxm-* slaps himself upside the head.. Somehow when you already started writing an expression as mapping something, loop/iterate does not surface into the thinking 14:39:05 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:40:07 I used to do a huge amount of Java, but a year ago or so I switched almost completely to CL, to the point where a fairly large bank is now running a Hunchentoot-based web application for parts of their trading... 14:40:26 Now, I feel that Java has incredibly limited tooping constructs 14:40:27 :-) 14:40:30 looping 14:40:36 So yeah, I 14:40:41 So yeah, I'm a fan of LOOP 14:41:01 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:09 me too. an even bigger fan of iterate 14:42:47 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-161-110.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:43:11 kennyd: I never bothered to learn iterate. Perhaps I should 14:43:12 maxm-: apply append *will* fail on large enough lists. Just mapcan/copylist. 14:43:50 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:44:08 APPLY copies the list anyway, so it's even slower... 14:44:55 loke it's more lispy. and collect, append etc can appear in arbitrary places, at any level. for example (iter (for x ..) (when something (case .. (collect x)))) 14:45:31 (let ((x ...)) (apply #'(lambda (&rest args) (eq x args)) x) will return NIL 14:46:32 kennyd: ah, that's indeed a benefit. There's the WITH-COLLECTOR thing that you'd have to use otherwise 14:47:53 APPLY doesn't copy anything. 14:48:07 pjb: where does the copying happen then? 14:48:16 in APPEND. 14:48:29 and only for the butlast arguments. 14:48:44 pjb: My example doesn't do APPEND 14:48:55 There's another copying happening in APPEND 14:49:07 But the call to the function also copies the list 14:49:29 (it copies the list of lists, not the lists themselves, mind you) 14:50:50 loke: (let ((x (list 1 2 3))) (apply (lambda (&rest args) (eq x args)) x)) WILL NOT return NIL. In CCL it returns T. 14:50:58 it MAY return NIL. 14:51:14 (and it does in a few implementations). 14:51:17 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 14:51:24 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:51:46 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:53 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:55:41 pjb: Indeed 14:56:32 That said, I'm slightly disturbed that the majory of implementations do the copying 14:56:37 :-) 14:56:56 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 14:57:11 *maxm-* finally found the last case of stumpwm -> taskbar sync stopping from working 14:57:42 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-130-153.w90-62.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 14:59:49 bandaid http://paste.lisp.org/display/129673 14:59:53 I was not aware that the spec allowed the non-copying case. 15:01:50 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-161-110.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:01 -!- hitecnologys [~noname@94.137.10.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:50 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:12:45 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has joined #lisp 15:13:43 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810156.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:14:06 hitecnologys [~noname@94.137.10.24] has joined #lisp 15:22:18 -!- hitecnologys [~noname@94.137.10.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:13 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:45 hitecnologys [~noname@94.137.10.24] has joined #lisp 15:28:49 Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:29:31 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-kmsealytonchtrjx] has joined #lisp 15:29:36 -!- hitecnologys [~noname@94.137.10.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:37 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:37 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 15:38:04 man what other language has (string-capitalize).. Use case: get window class name from browser name ie chromim -> Chromium firefox->Firefox 15:38:04 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for what other language has (string-capitalize).. Use case: get window class name from browser name ie chromim -> Chromium firefox->Firefox. 15:38:30 Bike_ [~Glossina@75-175-3-87.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:38 *maxm-* should unlearn to use "man" as a prefix 15:38:42 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 15:39:05 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 15:40:36 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27123025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:41:04 (string-capitalize (file-namestring "/usr/bin/firefox")) -> "Firefox" 15:43:09 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 15:43:35 (string-capitalize "chromium firefox w3m and safari") => "Chromium Firefox W3m And Safari" 15:44:09 truely a gift that keeps giving 15:44:17 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:41 spatials [~vertical@c-174-55-178-145.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:16 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:50:28 ASau [~user@95-24-231-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 15:51:21 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:51:36 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 15:56:47 -!- spatials [~vertical@c-174-55-178-145.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 15:56:58 spatials [~vertical@c-174-55-178-145.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:03 lony [~lony@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:58:33 -!- lony [~lony@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 16:00:27 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.40.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:44 -!- jiroukaja [~jiroukaja@softbank221094150218.bbtec.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:23 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:05:49 -!- spatials [~vertical@c-174-55-178-145.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:05:59 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has left #lisp 16:06:29 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 16:08:13 b_ [~chatzilla@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:11:51 I just tried replace all write-byte calls with my own no-op function and then saving to memory using streams takes 3 seconds (down from 9 seconds) but equal to sbcl with-open-file 16:13:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:13:08 which means 3 seconds is the min possible time for my data 16:13:27 so i gain theoretically nothing from adding buffers to cl-store 16:18:11 ZabaQ [~Zaba@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 16:23:13 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:23:51 harish [~harish@119.234.0.35] has joined #lisp 16:25:02 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 16:25:52 paul0 [~paul0@186.222.49.181] has joined #lisp 16:27:05 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.0.35] has quit [Client Quit] 16:27:48 harish [~harish@119.234.0.35] has joined #lisp 16:28:34 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #lisp 16:29:07 -!- camarada is now known as iLogical 16:29:59 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:19 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 16:30:55 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:31:26 spatials [~vertical@c-174-55-178-145.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:12 -!- paul0 [~paul0@186.222.49.181] has quit [Quit: paul0] 16:33:35 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 16:34:32 I wish I could look up ITERATE in the hyperspec.. 16:34:44 Or via the same keystrokes, anyway.. 16:36:09 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:36:43 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 16:36:44 SplinterofChaos: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129671#2 my result: CS: 4 AS: 11 AR: 3 CR: 12 16:36:57 ZabaQ: mere elisp programming. 16:37:26 well was using python to do a lot of interactive script stuff - lisp always put me off 16:38:04 spatials: have you read Practical Common Lisp http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ ? 16:38:05 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 16:38:33 spatials: it might be better once you write yourself some support package 16:38:40 also, there's SCSH 16:39:00 Siod [~user@99-99-196-9.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:20 if I learn elisp, will I have pretty much learned most of the other lisp dialects? 16:39:42 not necessarily 16:39:51 p_l: how's that? 16:39:52 Siod: not really 16:39:56 Elisp is quite different 16:40:05 Siod: Have a look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/122296 (intersection common-lisp emacs-lisp scheme) 16:40:08 more or less :-) 16:40:30 Siod: but yes, if you know elisp, you can learn CL very easily, and scheme easily. 16:40:50 pjb: that's what I was wondering pjb, thanks 16:41:03 pjb: thanks - have bit the bullet - taking an intro course at sdf - online 16:41:22 i guess i'll have more problems on the structual side of programming in the other dialects (with lexical scope)? 16:41:38 but in learning elisp, i'll have down the basic concepts used in all dialects? 16:41:55 Siod: somewhat 16:42:24 Siod: but you'll miss out on understanding the fundamental concepts of CL, such as closures 16:42:52 snearch [~snearch@f053008117.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:43:05 which dialect seems to have the best future? 16:43:16 Siod: emacs 24 has lexical binding and closure. 16:43:21 Siod: CL or Clojure 16:43:23 Siod: we are biased towards CL, of course ;) 16:43:23 Siod: CL. 16:43:41 (although I'm not willing to call Clojure a dialect of Lisp) 16:43:54 clojure is very much a lisp 16:44:05 saying it isn't is just ... silly 16:44:13 Has it rplaca? 16:44:27 you can write rplaca in it 16:44:29 A Lisp needs CAR and CDR at the very least to be a lisp 16:44:36 pjb: yes, under different name (just like scheme uses a different name for it) 16:44:54 (or at least one of the schemes I encountered) 16:44:59 nikodemus: I can write rplaca in C too. 16:44:59 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:45:10 Clojure afaik had swap! and similar 16:45:11 which makes it an astonishingly useless definition of lisp 16:45:55 yeah, saying that it needs CAR and CDR excludes R :-) 16:47:18 mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has joined #lisp 16:48:46 Kryztof: apropos, suggestions for R primers? 16:49:21 my need for ad-hoc data visualizations has recently increased, and i understand R isn't half bad at that 16:49:46 Speaking of R, is there a CL library that gives me R-like functionality? 16:52:03 love vim want to use it to learn clisp - any pointers - or is everybody here emacs? 16:52:49 http://random-state.net/files/nikodemus-cl-faq.html#which-ide-should-i-use 16:53:03 some vim-links there as well 16:53:05 spatials: if you're just getting into emacs, look into emacs prelude 16:53:12 spatials: i'm guessing you want to learn common lisp, not clisp :) 16:53:17 spatials: it will give you very nice defaults 16:53:27 spatials: which is most often called lisp (just terminology) 16:53:36 http://batsov.com/prelude/ 16:54:07 also, once prelude is installed, you can use M-x package-list-packages and find 'evil' 16:54:13 which emulates vim 16:54:22 spatials: i switched from vim to emacs because of how well lisp plays together with emacs. but it's obviously a bit sad that you need to learn something new. vim used to be fun (i'm much more fluent in emacs now). 16:54:43 "sad to learn something new" <= ? 16:54:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:54:46 Siod: i've never found any of those things work nice. it's only going to be confusing imho 16:54:57 madnificent: prelude? 16:55:02 there's a few vim/slimv users here, but i don't remember who they are 16:55:38 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:40 H4ns: as a VIm user you obviously love your editor. you've spent a lot of time to master it, but then you need to learn something new. for me, the time spent learning VIm was virtually lost. 16:55:56 H4ns: but no, i don't mind learning ^_^ 16:56:07 madnificent: i don't know, i prefer the vim way of editing in emacs 16:56:27 although, i was never expert with the emacs way 16:56:54 using f{char} and / is very useful, i think 16:57:15 Siod: when resources tell you to do something, for instance slime tips, it's going to be a bit different. it may be ok once you know the emacs basics, idk. 16:57:41 madnificent: it is not at all wrong to know multiple editors. my vi skills still serve me well. 16:57:42 *madnificent* defines keys for things he often needs, probably similar. 16:59:03 H4ns: mine don't. i know i knew it well, when i now open it i know i knew how to do things to make my life easier, but i don't know how to do them anymore. this has probably been hastened by the fact that i learned emacs+dvorak+lisp at the same time. a different keyboard layout kind-of ruins what you knew. 16:59:30 madnificent: you can't blame vim for dvorak :) 16:59:49 H4ns: i'm not blaming vim for anything 17:00:07 *spatials* looking at all the good suggestions 17:01:25 really want to stay with vim - slimv and vim gives error not finding swank - errr 17:01:56 have the stuff in vimrc for it to do so 17:02:01 i don't know how good slimv is these days. i think it makes sense to use it. i don't think it was wise of me to learn all three things at once. in fact, learning emacs and lisp together probably wasn't the smartest idea either (though in the long run i think it pays off to know both). 17:02:45 spatials: and there you have the main reason for not using it right now: it's harder to get help. but you'll probably get help. can you paste the exact error at paste.lisp.org? 17:03:43 arghh, on a different machine right now 17:04:21 let me check .... 17:04:40 deepthought42 [~user@HSI-KBW-109-193-077-227.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:04:42 spatials: how did you configure it? (mind you, i never tried it) 17:06:57 irpanech0 [~user@24.68.147.165] has joined #lisp 17:07:24 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:08:09 well waht it says is that swank is not running - everything else loaded - it looks like it's looking for it 17:08:43 spatials: does it try to open swank on a specific port? 17:08:55 in usr/share - which is not where it is - guess i can fix that -thanks 17:09:21 *madnificent* wonders if it searches for the socket in /usr/share or for a binary of some sort. 17:10:39 spatials: either case. swank is a lisp application that listens on a socket and allows you to execute lisp code (and some introspection stuff etc). you can quickload it and you can start it manually to see if it works then, but you'd need to know how slimv searches for it. 17:10:41 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:10:41 it can't find start-swank.lisp -- white knuckels holding on to vim :) 17:11:50 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:11:58 slimv etc. are in local home .vim 17:12:06 kloeri_ [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 17:12:13 spatials: you can probably install what you need through quicklisp. have you installed the latter already? 17:12:43 no - point please 17:12:45 (you need to do that manually (you probably shouldn't rely on your package manager for most of your lisp needs, they kind-of screw up when it comes to lisp stuff)) 17:12:49 spatials: quicklisp.org 17:13:24 it's trivial to install. then you will want to (ql:quickload :quicklisp-slime-helper) 17:13:39 *spatials* am looking - thanks 17:13:42 (after installing quicklisp, that is) 17:14:27 then i suggest you run find ~/quicklisp -name "start-swank.lisp"; in a terminal, it'll probably be there. 17:14:32 -!- irpanech0 [~user@24.68.147.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:49 irpanech0 [~user@24.68.147.165] has joined #lisp 17:15:03 -!- btbngr1 [~btbngr@host86-171-39-175.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:10 not exactly the prettiest thing to do, but it should get you started (which is probably what you want first, then you can start cleaning up). 17:17:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:17:58 -!- kloeri_ [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18:12 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 17:18:24 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 17:20:40 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has joined #lisp 17:24:09 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:24:23 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 17:26:25 -!- spatials [~vertical@c-174-55-178-145.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:27:27 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:28:06 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:29:05 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:30:20 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:34 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 17:30:56 -!- yates [~user@nc-71-48-9-61.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.96.1] 17:31:42 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.12.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:36:32 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:36:50 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 17:37:05 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:08 bah 17:37:19 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:37:19 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 17:37:27 cmucl can't compute count-change 1000 17:37:53 sbcl did it in like 10 seconds 17:38:11 to change 10 dollars into 5 coin kinds ....lol 17:38:22 peeeheeeeeee 17:38:28 ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has joined #lisp 17:41:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:41:23 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:41:33 http://paste.lisp.org/+2S25 17:42:38 homie: defun in defun doesn't do what you think it does. 17:43:13 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:22 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:43:28 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 17:43:43 hmmmm 17:43:51 so it's recursive then ? 17:44:42 -!- deepthought42 [~user@HSI-KBW-109-193-077-227.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:54 ccl does it in 3.480580 seconds on my system. 17:45:10 woh 17:45:34 http://paste.lisp.org/display/129677#1 17:45:38 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.14.180] has joined #lisp 17:45:47 wait real-time ? 17:48:37 lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab4b8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:55 pnq [~nick@ACA35609.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:48:56 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 17:48:56 yes. 17:49:09 gosh that's fast, how comes ? 17:49:22 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 17:49:23 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49:27 And it's down to 3.397970 with memoize, and 0.0 there after. 17:49:36 ccl beating sbcl? /me summons pkhuong and nikodemus 17:49:37 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 17:49:48 (ql:quickload :memoize) (org.tfeb.hax.memoize:memoize-function 'my-cc) ;-) 17:49:53 oh 17:50:16 ah, french always try to trick you :-) 17:50:23 lol 17:50:53 and cmucl fails totaly with the 10 dollar thing.... 17:51:04 won't give an answer 17:53:13 cmucl does it in 14.65 seconds on my system. 17:53:20 oh 17:53:25 which version ? 17:53:29 *maxm-* is switching from firefox to chromium (firefox slowness finally getting to me), whats the best vi-keys in chrome extension, similar to firefoxes vimperator or pentadactyl? googling shows there is vimeum and vrome 17:53:33 i have 20c binary i think.... 17:53:43 6.175061 seconds of total run time (6.171062 user, 0.003999 system) 17:53:59 that's with tracing) 17:54:06 or in 12.31 seconds in speed 3 debug 0 safety 0 space 2. 17:54:10 20b 17:54:20 nope mine won't copute it, if fails 17:54:28 report the bug. 17:54:31 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:20 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27123025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:55:25 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:37 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 17:55:39 maxm-: vimium. if you use dvorak, i have a configuration that works nicely with it. 17:56:03 it's O(amount) stack space. 17:56:18 madnificent: thanks 17:56:32 maxm-: yw 17:56:34 homie: use my annotation! 17:56:35 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27123025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:57:55 ok i used the -noinit switch and did it again, it computes now 17:58:01 also in like 10 seconds 17:58:04 -!- Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:58:32 ok something from my loaded-libs is interfering obviously.... 17:58:36 So, now I can say that ccl generates faster code than sbcl and cmucl 17:58:46 Soon even clisp will be faster than sbcl! :-) 17:59:13 ebobby [~fms@50-0-172-141.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:23 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:59:57 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:00:00 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:00:35 ok, I almost replicated my entire firefox expirience.. with delicious sync for bookmarks in, and delicious extension from avos for tagging.. 18:01:01 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:01:14 just need to figure out how to make delicious importer sort by "added date" rather then alphabetically 18:02:30 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27123025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:03:30 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has joined #lisp 18:03:53 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:04:16 maxm-: it's not related to this channel. i'm still interested, if you want to spew your thoughts make a new channel for it, throw it in #lispcafe or /msg me (as i am interested in your setup, but it doesn't belong here). 18:05:47 nah won't get me into lispcafe again :-) but yea I got carried away sorry 18:06:23 why not? what was bad in #lispcafe? 18:08:05 hah, i get a different answer with your version now in sbcl..... 18:08:19 and in cmucl it conses for ever, and gc'ing..... 18:09:59 1033661 is wrong with my version i got 801451 18:10:09 -!- b_ [~chatzilla@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:10:17 That's the result I get. 18:10:25 1033661 18:10:41 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:10:53 I've got two typoes in the vectors, it's 5 and 25, not 4 and 24. 18:11:57 oh ok 18:13:13 ok now i got the same answer but no speed gain, still 10 secs 18:13:29 and cmucl is still consing.... 18:13:51 even started both cmucl and sbcl now with -noinit and --no-sysinit --nouserinit.... 18:14:16 pjb: ccl faster than sbcl in which versions and which kind of convoluted benchmark? :) 18:14:28 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:15:16 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:15:32 dim: see url above. count-change. 18:15:54 homie: now, I guess you could try to use a simple vector of fixnum and add other fixnum type declarations. 18:18:01 pjb: seems I don't have enough backlog here 18:18:16 20:06 [19:38:11] to change 10 dollars into 5 coin kinds ....lol 18:18:17 ah 18:19:23 ok started sbcl with no libs loaded and used your version pjb and declaimed all my defuns inline, still no gain.... 18:19:29 that's weird.... 18:21:01 dim: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129677#1 18:21:12 I'm playing with that now, I'm curious 18:21:29 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:21:35 what's the test case? 18:21:38 dim: correct 4 and 24 to 5 and 25 there 18:21:57 ah sure :) 18:23:12 I'm definitely not using asdf test-op correctly. Has anybody an example of correct use? 18:23:24 (COUNT-CHANGE 1000) took 3,070,361 microseconds (3.070361 seconds) to run. 18:23:34 dim: in what implementation? 18:23:45 I'm using CCL here 18:24:00 I'm quite fond of ccl, finally, I think you did mention it to me btw 18:24:03 dim: right. it looks like sbcl and cmucl are 4x slower there. 18:25:05 metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 18:25:36 so I'm not sure I have the brain power to reverse engineer it, what's the return value representing? 18:25:37 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 18:28:42 dim: count the number of ways to return exact change. 18:29:05 pjb: you said defun in defun is not what i think ?! what do you mean ? 18:29:17 how is cl different in that respect from scheme ? 18:30:16 I'm pretty sure it's just a foil for dynamic programming in SICP. 18:31:31 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA35609.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:31:48 antonv [5d7d3142@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.66] has joined #lisp 18:33:21 ebw`` [~user@krlh-5f726cb4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:30 paul0 [~paul0@186.222.49.181] has joined #lisp 18:33:45 homie: it is totally different from scheme in that respect. 18:34:03 defun has compilation time effects only when it's a top-level form. 18:34:32 So the functions you define with defun inside the defun don't exist before you execute the function. They're bound at run-time. 18:34:52 And each time you call count-change, they're re-defined. 18:35:25 You're lucky count-time is called O(1) times, otherwise you'd incur that cost multiple times. 18:35:35 s/count-time/count-change/ 18:36:05 oh ok 18:36:42 -!- ebw` [~user@krlh-4d0217b7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:36:51 and having them outside of the main defun would change anything ? 18:36:55 for that case above ? 18:39:32 huh ok got 1 second gain 18:40:47 -!- lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab4b8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:41:30 Yes, they would be defined once, and the compiler could inline them in the calls to them in the same file. 18:42:04 lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab4b8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:15 well, i did inline every defun after defining them.... 18:42:20 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:42:21 don't know if it was that 18:42:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:42:45 check the generated code in both cases with disassemble. 18:43:59 -!- picon [~picon@host168-253-dynamic.247-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: . () In the Light !!! .] 18:46:31 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:46:59 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.0.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:48:03 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:49:13 ok 20c is buggy.... 18:49:30 and sbcl is ok 18:49:34 didn't check clisp yet 18:53:40 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:53:50 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:56:41 nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-219-0-207.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:57:43 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 18:58:06 ok clisp fails here too 18:59:32 picon [~picon@host123-250-dynamic.250-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:01:05 -!- metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Quit: Zzz] 19:01:29 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:01:32 pkhuong: makes sense, thx :) 19:01:40 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:01:44 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 19:02:30 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:04:53 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.46] has joined #lisp 19:06:16 homie: by "buggy", do you mean that cmucl calculates something wrong or that it crashes because of stack space limits? 19:06:19 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:07:30 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:38 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:08:47 -!- Siod [~user@99-99-196-9.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:27 fastest I can make it with cilk is 6 seconds with speed 3 debug 1 safety 1 19:10:51 maxm-: just memoise in a flat vector. 19:10:54 4 seconds with safety 0 19:11:49 well for toy problem memoize is of course correct solution, but I thought the idea was to benchmark approaches not to make toy example fastest possible in practice 19:12:12 What's the point in benchmarking brain damaged code? 19:13:24 donno, everyone else was doing it 19:13:35 well back to real things :-) 19:13:41 it seems i can't go to -dynamic-space-size 1632 with cmucl 19:13:48 and i changed stack-space now to 8 19:14:11 and it's still not computing (time (count-change 1000)).....only consing and gc'ing it is.... 19:14:47 and i don't know what it is.... 19:15:04 oh that's a useless benchmark here. May I propose fibonnaci numbers? at least you would have about the same results in most implementations :) 19:15:09 -dynamic-spce-size 1532 works such that cmucl starts....but the computing still fails.... 19:15:35 i don't know where the limiting of space-size comes.... 19:15:49 don't have that with sbcl here.... 19:15:53 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 19:17:16 b_ [~chatzilla@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:17:18 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-kmsealytonchtrjx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:18:24 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-151.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:18:47 homie: what are you trying to find out? 19:19:08 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-147-41.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:19:36 -!- antonv [5d7d3142@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:20:13 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-151.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:23 dim: Fib is pretty bad as well, actually, as was pointed out ~25 years ago in [drawing a blank here]. Some compilers are able to recognize the recurrence and optimise it into linear-time code. 19:20:34 rand1374 [~sabayonus@catv-80-99-137-213.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:20:40 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-41.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:21:44 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:22:27 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-151.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:24:32 -!- lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab4b8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:25:07 lony [~lony@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 19:26:03 -!- lony [~lony@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 19:26:27 pkhuong: it's easy to write it in a non recursive fashion too. My point was that fib is useless as a benchmark yet the most common one 19:26:30 lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab4b8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:43 add^_ [~add^_^@m90-131-120-194.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 19:26:56 my current favorite CL implementation of fib is (defun fib (n) "Return only the n'th number from the series" (loop repeat n for x = 0 then y and y = 1 then (+ x y) finally (return y))) 19:27:04 and it's plenty fast, of course 19:28:08 homie: I get result from clisp in Real time: 66.6674 sec. 19:28:14 dim: the problem is that its only use as a microbenchmark is to measure the efficiency of function calls, but even when written that way, some compiler may outsmart you. That, and fork/join parallelism it only works for the bad version. 19:28:25 don't know why it fails here... 19:28:32 *parallelising it 19:29:39 -!- rand1374 [~sabayonus@catv-80-99-137-213.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:52 pkhuong: compiler outmarting you is where half the art of benchmarking goes, the other being interpreting the results depending on the test conditions 19:30:00 or something like that anyway 19:30:15 good benchmarking is very hard 19:30:36 That's why stupidly-written programs should be avoided as benchmarks. 19:32:46 repunit factorization ? 19:34:06 pkhuong: unless when obviously applying stupid benchmarking to them, "just for fun" etc 19:34:37 I mean if you're not at all trying to do it right... might as well run the whole mile 19:36:43 pkhuong: I don't know, you saying "sufficiently smart compilers", do you know any that would optimize away the "classic" recursive implementation of fib, n-queens, or the coin type problems? 19:37:23 the reason for playing with toy problems, is because some non-trivial problems are solved in the same manner, its code understandability... 19:37:25 maxm-: fib has definitely been done before. 19:37:44 maxm-: call you on it, give me one compiler that can do it today 19:37:48 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:57 (without going through the hoops of adding accumulator variable or helper functions etc to make it tail recursive) 19:39:09 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053008117.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:39:35 maxm-: I'm pretty sure v8 can do it for JS. Need to check. 19:39:45 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.38] has joined #lisp 19:44:58 speakig of JS... what's the best way to generate webpages with jQuery in it? parenscript? 19:45:27 ok, "best" is subjective - how do you people do it - specifically for jQuery? 19:49:34 maxm-: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.51.6566 <- I think that's been implemented in SUIF, but I can't find any reference. 19:49:56 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:50:56 -!- Pseudomander [~PseudoMan@101.165.37.46] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:56:46 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:57:32 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-151.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:58:09 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:11 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:00:35 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:06:06 puchacz: i think there was a library which made parenscript in combination with jquery easier to bare 20:06:12 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:06:50 *maxm-* draws first star on his "defeated pkhuong in an argument about compilers" bragging board 20:08:35 *madnificent* didn't see a defeat 20:08:59 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-113-159.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:00 -!- picon [~picon@host123-250-dynamic.250-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: . () In the Light !!! .] 20:10:20 well I'm doing the scoring, so :-) ok how about "held his own" 20:10:52 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:45 because "provide example of compiler doing it today" means give me a link to something I can download and test the claim that smart enough compilers can reduce trivial recursive functions like fib,n-queens,or coins problems to iterative versions 20:12:22 It's kind of pointless to treat this like a game of football. 20:14:15 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-231-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:14:53 ASau [~user@95-24-231-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:15:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:13 madnificant: but it seems to be parenscript that is a JS generator of choice for web development, doesn't it? 20:17:20 sorry, madnificent 20:17:29 maxm-: once an algorithm has been fully described, my SCC-test passes. 20:17:35 puchacz: yes 20:17:42 Bike: it was done in jest, cmon. Back to on-topic my point about it is the "don't benchmark code like that because a) compiler will optimize b) you should have written iterative version anyway" rubs me the wrong way, because I use CL for ad-hoc design/try/disgard cycle of development, and when writing code that is naturally expressed via recursion, I don't want to also keep "how can I make this iterative" in my head, because thing I'm 20:17:43 trying to code is complex enough by itself 20:17:46 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:48 madnificent: any other viable alternatives? 20:18:05 puchacz: write javascript 20:18:20 I don't mind parenscript, I used it few years back, just enquirying if landscape has changed 20:18:37 H4ns: I use format and strcat but it starts being tedious 20:19:23 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@137.87.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:19:29 puchacz: i see. well, i tend to not generate javascript, but just write it and serve json or xml from lisp. but i see what you're trying to do. 20:19:52 puchacz: i think parenscript is the only actively used variant. i personally don't find the transformation trivial enough. when i write javascript i apparently want to just write javascript. i'm not entirely sure what the best option is. i think parenscript can be very handy, given that you spend enough time to write an abstraction layer for the things you want to talk about. there's both parenscript and parenscript-cl 20:19:52 you can guess the difference, i think. 20:20:31 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:32 maxm-: it's not about recursive/iterative here, but rather exponentially less efficient/sane. 20:20:46 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:58 madnificent: I did not guess, I will google :) 20:21:30 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 20:23:37 H4ns: I use cl-json too, what do you use to work with xml? 20:23:46 puchacz: cxml 20:23:52 H4ns: thx 20:27:09 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:20 jsown has a nicer interface 20:28:36 shameless self promotion 20:28:38 yason is much nicer, too! 20:28:51 :D 20:29:17 -!- schmx [~marcus@c83-254-190-169.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:31:11 francogrex [~user@109.130.26.21] has joined #lisp 20:31:43 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:57 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:33 ok got it, i didn't have libsigsegv 20:43:36 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128128230.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 20:46:01 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-219-0-207.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:46:29 jack_rabbit [~Jack_rabb@c-24-13-250-216.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:11 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-131-120-194.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 20:53:13 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 20:55:21 -!- jack_rabbit [~Jack_rabb@c-24-13-250-216.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:57:03 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 20:57:43 -!- paul0 [~paul0@186.222.49.181] has quit [Quit: paul0] 20:59:56 Whitesquall [~notwhites@109.225.45.209] has joined #lisp 21:02:13 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.26.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:31 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:03:50 Hi! I want to add the definition for file_buffer http://linux.die.net/man/3/libmagic function into magicffi/api.lisp https://github.com/dochang/magicffi/blob/master/api.lisp - how should I handle the conversion from Lisp string or stream to a const void *buffer? 21:04:13 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:04:32 Can I get a sb-sys:sap from the string or stream? 21:07:21 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:07:33 wouldn't c-string do the job? 21:08:37 I believe it's meant to convert lisp strings into null-terminated encoded bytes (e.g. into latin-1), and pass a pointer to that byte vector. 21:09:15 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:09:18 Ah ok, probably it does. 21:13:44 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:28 jack_rabbit [~Jack_rabb@c-24-13-250-216.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:47 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 21:20:10 -!- jack_rabbit [~Jack_rabb@c-24-13-250-216.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:22:43 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@137.87.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 21:24:22 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-156.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:36 cffi:lisp-string-to-foreign seems to be what I want. 21:26:38 paul0 [~paul0@186.222.49.181] has joined #lisp 21:27:21 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-244-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 21:30:26 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:54 DGASAU` [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 21:34:23 -!- lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab4b8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:36:06 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has joined #lisp 21:36:41 lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab4b8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:25 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:30 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 21:53:04 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:55:35 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:56:42 pkhuong: Thanks, I got it to work using with-foreign-string 22:10:53 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:11:03 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-219-154.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:27 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:31 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:16:18 Does anyone else see double compilation messages (like this http://paste.lisp.org/display/129679) when the C-c C-c in SLIME? 22:16:20 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:29 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.17] has joined #lisp 22:16:43 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:51 Paul6253 [44c6dbdb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.198.219.219] has joined #lisp 22:20:46 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: EVERYONE PLEASE /msg KindOne YOU LOST THE GAME] 22:20:48 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@187.105.3.184] has joined #lisp 22:23:54 -!- b_ [~chatzilla@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:25:16 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-231-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:43 ASau [~user@95-26-55-149.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:26:11 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:26:49 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has joined #lisp 22:29:44 -!- zophy [~zophy__@24.220.134.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:31:41 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:03 from latest slime? 22:32:24 tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 22:36:12 whatever's in quicklisp. Which strangely seems to not even be the latest that quicklisp has ever downloaded. 22:36:53 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:36:58 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 22:37:52 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-113-159.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 22:38:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-240-131.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 22:38:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-240-131.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 22:38:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:39:07 not seeing this with cvs slime, updated around a week ago 22:39:17 Seems to have something to do with slime-compilation-finished-hook and its default value of slime-maybe-show-compilation-log 22:39:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.35.109] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.97.1] 22:40:40 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:40 ah I use custom compilation hook to show xrefs, so it does not apply 22:40:46 -!- rootyourself [~fekoff@69.172.160.67] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:43:39 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 22:43:44 pixelbrei [~user@83.125.63.81] has joined #lisp 22:49:00 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: going to moon brb] 22:49:19 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 22:53:16 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:00 -!- pixelbrei [~user@83.125.63.81] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:19 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:36 -!- fukushim_ [~fukushima@z128.124-44-151.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:59:40 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 23:00:50 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:01:09 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 23:05:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:06:11 Phooodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:11 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:07:27 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-95-217.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:07:28 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:13:07 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:56 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.17] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:28 dto [~dto@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:44 What is the best way to convert '(1 2 3) to '(123)? 23:31:38 arrsim` [~user@128.250.116.167] has joined #lisp 23:31:48 holycow [~fekoff@69.172.160.67] has joined #lisp 23:32:46 drl, (reduce (lambda (x y) (+ x (* 10 y)))) '(1 2 3)) ? 23:33:35 drl, swap x and y: (reduce (lambda (x y) (+ y (* 10 x)))) '(1 2 3)) ? 23:33:44 -!- kanru` [~user@61-228-145-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:34:29 pspace [~andrew@75-149-35-74-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:43 vervic [~vervic@p5498CDCB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:50 -!- vervic [~vervic@p5498CDCB.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 23:37:54 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-95-217.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 23:39:56 -!- lebro [~xmike@ool-18bab4b8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:42 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@187.105.3.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:51 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-95-217.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:41:15 ezakimak, thanks! 23:41:41 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:42:51 finally 23:43:02 clisp at least could compute it 23:43:04 bleh 23:43:26 after 10mins or so 23:43:29 rofl 23:43:48 it seems i optimized too much 23:44:45 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839D58.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:46:05 -!- joachifm [~joachifm@ulrik.uio.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:47:08 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:38 joachifm [~joachifm@ulrik.uio.no] has joined #lisp 23:50:42 fukushima [~fukushima@z128.124-44-151.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:51:52 harish [~harish@119.234.0.1] has joined #lisp 23:52:42 zophy [~zophy__@24.220.134.233] has joined #lisp 23:53:29 -!- paul0 [~paul0@186.222.49.181] has quit [Quit: paul0] 23:55:56 MarkyC [ce3536ea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.53.54.234] has joined #lisp 23:57:01 787 secs with clisp 23:57:16 contrast 10 secs in sbcl 23:57:18 lol 23:58:51 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp