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quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:17:17 lebro [18bab4b8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.186.180.184] has joined #lisp 02:18:24 -!- lebro [18bab4b8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.186.180.184] has quit [Client Quit] 02:24:32 xan_ [~xan@p4244-ipbffx02marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:25:58 dan64- [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 02:27:00 ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 02:30:14 blast, alpha's thrown a disk. There goes my genera machine :/ 02:30:56 80s called, they want their stuff back 02:31:36 -!- arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:32:31 arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:33:36 stassats: alphaserver was introduced in 1994. my particular model is a ds10, which is compaq-era. Either way it's better than an Itanic. 02:33:50 -!- joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:34:11 and the 80s can have their stuff back when they pry it from my cold dead hands. 02:34:16 what an apt comparison you coined there 02:34:44 joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has joined #lisp 02:35:35 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-24.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:37:43 bruno_coelho [~bruno_coe@187.113.75.43] has joined #lisp 02:38:11 gko [~gko@220.228.255.202] has joined #lisp 02:38:30 stassats: you might be interested in looking up the ShenWei series 02:39:50 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has joined #lisp 02:48:14 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-122-226.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:48:52 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:49:17 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-65-96-162-9.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:33 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-122-99.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:00 -!- booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:58:28 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176432037.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 03:01:48 Yuuhi` [benni@p54839D53.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:03 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176432037.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:03:22 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p548398AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:08:54 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:09:09 superflit [~superflit@75-171-209-125.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:48 DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:10:47 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:10:50 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:11:10 tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:29 two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:11 -!- philcrissman [~philcriss@c-174-53-217-149.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:12:12 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13:22 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:59 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16:55 __root__0 [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:17:28 -!- bruno_coelho [~bruno_coe@187.113.75.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:12 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-20-172.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:18:34 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:28:24 saage [~saage@200.195.179.34] has joined #lisp 03:28:31 -!- saage [~saage@200.195.179.34] has quit [Changing host] 03:28:31 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 03:37:10 -!- tychoish_ is now known as tycho 03:37:11 Sgeo_ [~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:49 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:38:26 -!- Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:41:09 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:44:30 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 03:54:08 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:57:38 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:03:24 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176432037.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 04:03:54 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:04:16 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:05:04 DataLinkDroid [~David@110.144.112.213] has joined #lisp 04:05:40 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-24-63-135-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:07:36 mooglenorph [~marco@70-90-96-161-ma-ne.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:28 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 04:11:07 Hi, I want to make a small DSL. About the only way I know how to do this is the chapter 4 of SICP, basically adding a "query evaluation" function to wrap all calls in. 04:11:40 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:13:14 Ie, the driver loop: invoke that function and end up in what is basically a sub-repl. 04:13:34 This seems kind of hand-rolled, is there a more "Common Lisp" way to do this? 04:15:05 a DSL can also be implemented using functions, wrapped by macros and then used in lisp code or the native lisp repl as-is 04:15:33 +1 to phadthai's suggestion 04:16:40 Hmm, I guess I am lying about DSL, I'm sorry: I actually do want a "restricted loop" to activate a small query language. 04:17:25 mooglenorph: is the "restriction" meant to actually restrict the user of the language? 04:17:39 I've googled for things like "query language library" and haven't come up with much. 04:17:59 -!- wtetzner_ [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:18:21 H4ns: Yes, the user is meant to drop into the DSL and stay there. But it would be nice to also have the facilities of the language easily used from CL code, as well. 04:20:03 mooglenorph: then you'll have to write an interpreter for your language. 04:20:06 So, like, a sort of two-faced thing: one face, a small query language, the other, a set of routines from the domain that form a nice API for general common lisp code. 04:20:42 I agree that you'd need an interpreter then, or at least a translator/compiler 04:20:52 mooglenorph: you can then have the interpreter work from a macro in order to imbed the dsl code in common lisp. 04:21:00 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:21:18 H4ns: ah! that makes good sense. 04:21:29 yeah, by interpreter i mean something that explictly decomposes the structure of the dsl code rather than using cl for that. 04:22:04 Are there any good examples of this sort of structure in open-source CL libraries? 04:22:08 you could look at s-sql, loop, xhtmlgen for inspiration 04:22:15 :-) thanks 04:22:25 not saying that they are good examples or easily readable, though. 04:22:30 hah 04:22:42 is there anything that is a good example of such a system? 04:23:15 i'm not saying they're NOT good examples. look at them. next time someone has this question, you'll know a better answer. 04:26:30 I'll go take a look then, thanks. For more context, the system is an environment for working with first-order logic on finite structures (hypergraphs), so I guess I should really be looking at Maxima for implementation hints. 04:28:41 The source for that is *huge* though, and my language is very small and domain-specific. 04:30:45 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:30:51 -!- mooglenorph [~marco@70-90-96-161-ma-ne.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:31:32 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-njsqqgrhujnpzplw] has joined #lisp 04:33:43 nha [~prefect@g225075139.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:37:37 shmore [~shmore@S01060026f31b5d58.hm.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:39 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:39:01 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:40:09 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:41:49 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:44:46 -!- shmore [~shmore@S01060026f31b5d58.hm.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:49:11 holycow [~fekoff@69.172.160.67] has joined #lisp 04:49:13 holycow_ [~fekoff@69.172.160.67] has joined #lisp 04:50:49 Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:45 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.115.62.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:54:48 smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has joined #lisp 04:55:00 -!- smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has quit [Client Quit] 04:55:11 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 04:55:28 smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has joined #lisp 04:56:26 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-107-3-142-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:51 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-uzccmdjfahgewfvz] has joined #lisp 04:56:52 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-uzccmdjfahgewfvz] has quit [Changing host] 04:56:52 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:00:46 -!- cpc26 [~Adium@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:57 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-2cb4e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:08:41 SHODAN [~shozan@c-2cb4e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:12:25 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:13:46 vervic [~vervic@194.112.182.212] has joined #lisp 05:14:12 nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-219-0-207.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 05:15:28 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:15:45 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-egugojhvnviocwmx] has joined #lisp 05:15:46 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-egugojhvnviocwmx] has quit [Changing host] 05:15:46 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:17:39 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:19:31 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:19:39 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:21:24 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:28:15 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-148-11.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:19 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-148-11.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:53 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-122-99.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:33:29 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-148-11.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:36:09 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-148-11.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:36:17 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:40:10 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-225-230.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:25 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-21.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:41:19 why does this not work: (mapcar '#(lambda (x) (* x 2)) '(1 2 3)) 05:41:41 You mean #' 05:41:50 jbytecode [c1ff0931@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.255.9.49] has joined #lisp 05:41:52 or just get rid of both 05:42:03 oops 05:42:11 Bike: now it works :d 05:42:23 -!- jbytecode [c1ff0931@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.255.9.49] has quit [Client Quit] 05:42:34 You can get rid of the #' there. 05:42:53 stassats`: hey, that works 05:43:14 stassats`: earlier i tried something where i didn't think i needed #', and it didn't work. i don't quite understand #' 05:44:27 #'foo is just short for (function foo). (lambda ...) expands to (function (lambda ...)) so you don't need to worry about it there. 05:47:12 how about: ((lambda (f x) (f x)) (lambda (x) (* x 2)) 3) 05:47:28 funcall f 05:47:56 stassats`: ty 05:48:16 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:48:25 does remove-if-not have funcall in its defintion? 05:48:49 no 05:49:00 if a function takes a function as a parameter, do you have to use funcall on the symbol that is bound to the function to call it? 05:49:11 -!- lazyfingers [~a@78.84.172.207] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:49:20 you can use apply or multiple-value-call 05:49:24 -!- nha [~prefect@g225075139.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: 42nd quit message.] 05:49:47 remove-if-not can use internal::%call-function 05:49:47 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-jknckslxcvevifvn] has joined #lisp 05:50:09 hm... i don't know what these things are you're referencing 05:50:59 is there a format directive for inserting tabstops? 05:51:01 stassats`: can you explain the semantics of ((lambda (f x) (f x)) (lambda (x) (* x 2)) 3) and why it doesn't work? 05:51:29 because the first element of the list is not evaluated 05:52:15 f? 05:52:25 yes 05:52:41 it tries to call a function named F, which doesn't exist 05:52:50 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:53:04 is f not bound to the lambda i pass in? 05:53:19 It's not bound in the function namespace. 05:53:38 oh 05:53:47 so it's as if i'm saying "there's a function called f" 05:54:09 that's what i just said 05:54:30 this is... confusing 05:54:43 Are you used to Scheme or something? 05:54:49 no 05:55:03 magnificrab: what is a tabstop? 05:55:46 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 05:56:13 magnificrab: no. 05:56:30 H4ns: it depends on what magnificrab means by it 05:56:30 stassats`: the control character generally assigned to the key. Most folk these days convert it to x spaces instead. 05:56:57 like ~8t? 05:57:28 or "~c" #\TAb 05:57:32 stassats`: maybe. I tried ~t and it didn't seem to do much at all. I'll try passing in a param and let you know 05:58:53 stassats`: excellent, thanks. 05:59:13 you could reading its description 05:59:17 could try 05:59:18 clhs ~t 05:59:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cfa.htm 05:59:39 format also supports columns and tables 06:01:30 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 06:01:59 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:02:13 i like saying lisp with a japanese accent 06:02:28 makes me lol 06:05:08 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-107-3-142-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 06:06:49 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:57 certainty [~david@matrix.d-coded.de] has joined #lisp 06:10:43 -!- xan_ [~xan@p4244-ipbffx02marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:11:07 whoa. macros... 06:11:51 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.105.28] has joined #lisp 06:12:05 i'm trying to auto load flymake-mode for racket (plt scheme) files. i have http://pastebin.com/QutCShg4 but it's not working. what do i need to do on line 11? (tenuous connection to lisp, i know, but #emacs and #racket are currently asleep) 06:12:15 no 06:12:21 go to #emacs and wait 06:13:22 mrSpec [~Spec@89-77-76-114.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 06:13:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-77-76-114.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 06:13:30 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:15:16 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-25-97.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:16:01 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:17:51 what is the difference between 'hello and "hello"? 06:18:15 adnap: try calling TYPE-OF on them 06:19:39 interesting... 2 and '2 have the same type, but 'hello and "hello" don't 06:19:46 scheme 06:19:57 adnap: '"hello" and "hello" do 06:19:58 butts 06:20:01 just a test :) 06:21:17 '| blows up 06:21:57 | is an escape character for symbol names 06:22:11 '|frEd| 06:22:16 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:22:16 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:22:16 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:22:50 try |PI| vs pi vs 'pi 06:23:27 vs '|PI| 06:23:49 er missed |pi| 06:24:02 which is undefined be default 06:24:47 so are |x| and x equivalent? 06:25:11 they do the same thing 06:25:23 no 06:25:25 it depends on the read-case, but not by default 06:26:15 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:26:16 Modius` [~user@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:26:34 by default the reader capitalizes all symbol names 06:26:38 i'm not sure what a symbol is beyond a type 06:26:40 |X| and x are equivalent 06:26:54 adnap: i suggest we move this to clnoobs 06:27:00 adnap: have you read Practical Common Lisp already? 06:27:04 ezakimak: thatsounds perfect for me 06:27:14 ezakimak: i am reading that right now 06:27:19 oops 06:27:21 stassats`: ^ 06:27:41 -!- vervic [~vervic@194.112.182.212] has quit [Quit: vervic] 06:28:04 should i just finish reading that and them come back here? XD 06:28:15 that'd be great 06:28:29 or post any q's in #clnoobs as you go 06:28:51 okay 06:29:17 i also suggest shapiro's book if you want something w/excercises at the end of each chapter 06:29:29 -!- Modius [~user@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:31:47 Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 06:32:19 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 06:33:48 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-107-3-142-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:57 schmx [~marcus@c83-254-190-169.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:38:04 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.105.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:38:43 hello, I'm trying http://wandrian.net/2012-05-14-2110-display-images-in-emacs-from-common-lisp.html. Why do I have Required module SWANK-IO-PACKAGE::SWANK-MEDIA was not provided after I call slime-connect ? 06:38:55 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:39:11 I've already ugraded all I have with ql 06:39:36 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-21.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:44:29 adnap: yes, ' is syntax which the reader interprets as (quote ...) 06:45:07 sorry, mishchannel 06:45:32 kiuma: because it's outdated 06:46:03 stassats`, mine or blog's 06:46:12 yours 06:46:27 stassats`, what do I have to do ? 06:46:36 update slime, obviously 06:47:43 compiling file "/home/kiuma/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/slime-20120520-cvs/.... 06:47:53 Required module SWANK-IO-PACKAGE::SWANK-MEDIA was not provided 06:48:25 you did not update slime 06:49:00 vervic [~vervic@194.112.182.212] has joined #lisp 06:52:05 stassats`, isn't sufficient (ql:update-all-dists) ? 06:52:31 it updates only what quicklisp has 06:53:07 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 06:53:56 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012c0a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:51 swank::*swank-wire-protocol-version* => "2012-05-12" 06:56:53 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-219-0-207.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:58:49 Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 07:00:43 you can either update your slime or add this to the end of swank-media.lisp: 07:00:45 (provide :swank-media) 07:01:11 cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 07:01:59 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has joined #lisp 07:02:09 slyrus, bu I think I've updated slime. Isn't slime-20120520-cvs the updated version ? 07:02:23 no, i told you! 07:02:38 I use the git repo here: git://sbcl.boinkor.net/slime.git 07:02:43 no you told me to update slime 07:03:04 yeah, you need to update slime. what's in quicklisp doesn't work. 07:03:08 for this anyway. 07:03:25 or, you can modify the version from quicklisp with the single line i pasted above. 07:03:43 kiuma: yes, i told you to update it because the one you showed is not up to date 07:03:47 slyrus, thx now I've perfectly understood 07:04:02 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:11:39 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@110.144.112.213] has quit [Quit: Bye] 07:14:03 -!- Sgeo_ [~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:14:15 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:14:59 arnuld [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/arnuld] has joined #lisp 07:15:30 -!- vervic [~vervic@194.112.182.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:16:45 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: cya] 07:17:26 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 07:18:49 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:19 -!- arrsim` [~user@128.250.116.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:19:49 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:24:03 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-225-94-191.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: the parade of madness is coming, and it is in your name] 07:24:21 two common lisp libraries (zpng . png-read) give multi-dimensional array access to the pixels, but png-read has dimensions (column . row) while zpng has dimensions (row . column)... is one of them more correct given the nature of png? for me, it takes much longer for png-read to read than zlib to write 07:24:55 *zlib should be zpng 07:25:19 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:26:01 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:26:12 png-read is just badly optimized 07:26:42 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:28:42 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:28:55 i even has a patch lying around to make it much faster 07:29:52 stassats: no pull upstream? 07:30:44 no, i don't really care about reading pngs 07:31:26 -!- schmx [~marcus@c83-254-190-169.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:31:28 stassats: is the array-dimension-ordering part of the "badly optimized", or is the ordering irrelevant? 07:31:43 irrelevant 07:32:24 -!- edgar-rft [~me@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Nuclear meltdown] 07:33:35 stassats: at any rate, I think the ordering is relevant when using the two systems together... silly translating 07:35:29 though I suppose, what's the point of using them together if there's no "translating" 07:39:57 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 07:40:12 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:15 xan_ [~xan@p4244-ipbffx02marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:44:27 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-107-3-142-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 07:45:42 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:46:21 -!- hugod [~user@host213-123-202-151.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:47:05 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 07:49:18 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012c0a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:51:14 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012c0a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:48 hitecnologys [~noname@94.137.0.4] has joined #lisp 07:54:40 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 07:57:12 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 07:58:37 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Client Quit] 07:59:54 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 08:02:46 -!- arnuld [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/arnuld] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:03:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:05:59 -!- xan_ [~xan@p4244-ipbffx02marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:08:18 -!- mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:34 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 08:08:57 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:09:45 sacho [~sacho@95-42-96-143.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 08:12:21 [SLB] [~slabua@host21-165-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:12:22 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host21-165-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 08:12:22 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 08:13:19 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:14:00 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:14:00 Greetings! 08:14:43 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:14:43 -!- Matt_S_G [~Matt_S_G@gateway/tor-sasl/mattsg/x-78535695] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:14:44 hitecnologys: Morning 08:15:03 -!- dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:15:18 kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:15:19 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 08:15:38 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:15:50 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 08:16:33 arnuld [~chatzilla@124.123.173.211] has joined #lisp 08:17:12 dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #lisp 08:17:38 Matt_S_G [~Matt_S_G@gateway/tor-sasl/mattsg/x-78535695] has joined #lisp 08:17:57 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-86-234.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 08:21:02 I need some help again. Does anyone know a good way to split the string by some symbols? I've written this with map and some buffers that collects characters. But I don't think it's a good way to do it. There's also nothing interesting about it in CLHS. 08:21:35 By symbols I mean characters /fix 08:21:48 minion: split-sequence? 08:21:48 split-sequence: SPLIT-SEQUENCE (formerly known as PARTITION) is a member of the Common Lisp Utilities family of programs, designed by community consensus. http://www.cliki.net/split-sequence 08:21:51 minion: cl-ppcre? 08:21:52 cl-ppcre: CL-PPCRE is a portable, Perl-compatible regular expression library by Edi Weitz. http://www.cliki.net/cl-ppcre 08:22:50 or use a simple loop + subseq 08:23:08 well, it's not simple 08:23:09 stassats`: I thought about regular expressions but I think is like shooting to bird with tank. 08:23:24 hitecnologys: you can use cl-ppcre without regular expressions 08:23:53 (cl-ppcre:split #\a string-to-split) 08:24:04 I mean if the delimiter is just spaces ;-) 08:24:09 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:24:19 stassats`: Okay, thanks. 08:24:33 kanru`: it's not simpler than calling cl-ppcre 08:25:11 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:25:20 So, another question: Is there's a way to convert string to list? 08:25:33 Tried coerce but it works only for list=>string. 08:25:34 hitecnologys: split-sequence is smaller but doesn't do anything except splitting sequences. No regexps, no replaces etc. 08:26:13 CL-USER(1): (coerce "asdf" 'list) 08:26:16 (#\a #\s #\d #\f) 08:26:24 Hm. 08:26:27 smaller? i find that cl-ppcre is more often present in the image 08:26:27 cl-ppcre is over kill IMO. if you already depend on cl-ppcre then use it, sure. 08:26:34 Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.9.107] has joined #lisp 08:26:46 naryl: what's the point? 08:27:24 stassats`: That whatever coerce should do it. 08:27:30 s/whatever // 08:27:37 Naryl: Oh, sure, works. Just my stupidity. 08:27:50 well, if you really feel kinky, (asdf:split-string "string-to-split" :separator "-") 08:27:54 naryl: i missed the question 08:28:12 hitecnologys: why do you need to coerce a string to a list? 08:28:31 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-jrymtrrdevcqyneu] has joined #lisp 08:28:37 hitecnologys: You can iterate over vectors with loop or iterate if that's the reason. 08:29:02 stassats`: Just asked. Maybe I will use it in future. 08:29:03 and sequence functions will also work on arrays/strings 08:29:15 phadthai: vectors, not arrays 08:29:22 right :) 08:30:14 Thank you, guys. So much solutions 08:31:25 many /fix 08:33:40 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:33:54 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.163.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:34:54 -!- Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has left #lisp 08:37:53 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 08:37:59 morning 08:38:22 lony [~lony@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:38:48 -!- ez2718 is now known as ez27182817 08:39:19 -!- lony [~lony@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 08:39:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:40:04 AssBurger [assburgers@to.niggerbucks.barack.obama.dolescum.info] has joined #lisp 08:41:42 b_ [~b@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:44:13 kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-oyohduvxcuvwkiew] has joined #lisp 08:44:55 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 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has joined #lisp 12:02:35 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:03:13 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:36 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:05:58 cpc26 [~Adium@50-52-233-128.drr01.drhm.nc.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:58 -!- cpc26 [~Adium@50-52-233-128.drr01.drhm.nc.frontiernet.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:05:58 cpc26 [~Adium@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 12:06:45 ermm I find myself trying to define a macro within a macro, in the nested macro's backquote form, how do splice in the parent macros parameters? 12:07:25 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:07:25 -!- wbooze_ [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-136-24.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:07:28 when I use single ',' nothing gets substituted, but when i use two ',,' its gets done but prefixed by extra comma 12:07:39 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:08:31 b__: its hard to wrap your head around it for more then 2 levels. 2nd level will be `(stuff `(blah ,',var)) 12:08:34 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-188-203.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:08:58 I prefer to write a helper functon %make-inner-macro-expansion and call that, it makes code much clearer 12:10:09 -!- wztian [~wztian@218.89.36.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:10:25 i see 12:11:01 an example: (defmacro macro-defining-macro (name) (flet ((expand-inner-macro `(defmacro ,name () ...))) `(progn ,@(expand-inner-macro)))) 12:11:32 i tend to use ` for only the outer level and start using the old form with just lists inside. if that doesn't work out, i write functions to write the macros for me. 12:12:08 it's also possible to use normal functions to generate your code and wrap them with a macro 12:12:55 well, what madnificent said :) 12:13:47 -!- [SLB] [~casper@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:14:04 I need some time to absorb this.. (my mind hurts) 12:17:18 got it 12:17:21 thanks! 12:17:31 doing so 12:26:26 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 12:26:49 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-njsqqgrhujnpzplw] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:29:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:29:27 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 12:30:24 maxm-: sorry but in your example, inside the expander function, wouldnt you again have to use ,', stuff inside the expanders body backquote ? 12:31:01 (expand-inner-macro `(defmacro ,name () `(,',param-1))) something like this 12:31:17 zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-ztdxqjbpfowndsza] has joined #lisp 12:31:52 [SLB] [~casper@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 12:33:01 maybe i am getting confused 12:33:24 i promise a reward of 50 EUR for the first who offers me a terminal-mode emacs binary for this (linux-driven) device pocketbook 912, and 100 EUR for a graphics version ... i mean this seriously. 12:35:42 trebor_dki: that thing only has 256MB RAM, how should emacs run there? ;) 12:35:51 (howto documentation / source adpations another 50 EUR) 12:35:56 well, isn't there debian for nearly every processor out there? 12:36:10 and it boots from SD card, so just put a matching installation on one 12:36:12 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:36:48 i want to use the reader still as a reader. there is a sdk (official and inofficial), a virtual-machine / simulator. 12:36:55 and its linux based. 12:37:13 so it should run as an application. 12:37:46 well, removing the SD card would boot the "normal" installation anyway 12:37:54 one needs to keep an eye on the screen clearing/ refreshing. 12:39:22 flip214: emacs should run under the linux of the reader. 12:40:17 i have seen a terminal application somewhere, so a terminal verstion would be ok as a first step. 12:40:34 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:40:45 Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 12:41:07 dagal_ [~dagal@91.179.141.107] has joined #lisp 12:42:00 as i said, this is a serious offer, one does not get rich, but maybe someone knows how to do it in little time so the 100EUR might be ok. 12:42:01 trebor_dki: do a debootstrap of armel into some directory, put that on SD, and try to run emacs from there? 12:42:19 or simply extract the files, eg. from http://packages.debian.org/sid/armel/emacs23/download 12:43:04 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:43:45 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@214-106-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:44:04 trebor_dki: this would be better posted on #emacs! 12:44:16 trebor_dki: so basically 150 euro for a 3-4 weeks (optimistic) of hacking, or 150/160hrs 1$ / hour? 12:44:26 oh, my, i thought i this would be #emacs, sorry wrong channel 12:44:32 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:44:39 sorry 12:45:07 -!- dagal [~dagal@91.179.12.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:45:22 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 12:45:36 -!- dagal_ is now known as dagal 12:45:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:46:01 gendl [~dcooper8@5356280E.cm-6-7a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 12:46:31 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:47:10 xan_ [~xan@pc1.sakuravod-unet.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:47:20 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@5356280E.cm-6-7a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 12:47:29 man people have un-realistic expectation thinking there are billions of third-world PHD's, eager to hack them next big thing for peanuts 12:47:29 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for people have un-realistic expectation thinking there are billions of third-world PHD's, eager to hack them next big thing for peanuts. 12:47:58 man man 12:47:58 http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man1/man.1.html 12:48:00 man pain 12:48:00 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for pain. 12:48:18 man erection lasting longer then four hours 12:48:18 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for erection lasting longer then four hours. 12:49:36 maxm-: i am sorry. did not intend to annouy anybody. i thought that some guys maybe did something similiar and in this case this could have been easy money. 12:52:22 -!- Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has left #lisp 12:54:48 trebor_dki: its no problem, but IMHO deals like these (a quick hack for $100) end up badly, even if someone has such a hack. As usually receiving side will find some things not working/difficult, and then will guilt-trip teh provider with endless queries, until the guy receiving quick $100 is cursing he ever did it 12:55:49 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:56:21 -!- xan_ [~xan@pc1.sakuravod-unet.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:56:40 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:56:46 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 12:57:07 maxm-: it is the first time i try sth like this. so basically i know that there is the chance of getting sth will seems to work, but will not do so in the end. that is the reason why i only offer a max of 200 EUR. 12:57:37 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:00:50 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA244D9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:01:34 -!- [SLB] [~casper@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: [ Il motivo per cui le persone sono meravigliose, non è forse perché credono nei sentimenti e uniscono le loro vite? ]] 13:01:44 [SLB] [~slabua@82.55.165.21] has joined #lisp 13:01:45 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@82.55.165.21] has quit [Changing host] 13:01:45 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 13:01:48 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128036067.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:01:49 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:02:51 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:00 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 13:03:58 -!- b__ [~b@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:09:25 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 13:10:45 BrokenCog [1000@ip98-162-161-219.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:05 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 13:11:31 hello ... Probably a late question, but before I buy a copy of it, what are peoples opinion of "Land of Lisp" ? 13:12:11 BrokenCog: it's a funny book. I'd use another one to learn lisp. 13:12:16 b__ [~b@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:13:47 Guys, is this what you meant by using helper macros for nesting? -> http://paste.lisp.org/display/129634 , this is what i am trying to do 13:14:16 i end up using ',' again (( 13:14:36 ,', 13:14:52 b__: format uses *print-case* for symbols. 13:15:01 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:15:06 tritchey [~tritchey@207-250-131-187.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:29 hmm 13:15:50 b__: pretty much, I'm sure I knew of a trick to get rid of ',' but I forgot it 13:16:26 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:16:29 ok phew, i thought i wasnt getting it 13:17:17 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/x-xkqmsgkleqczfrxd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:32 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:17:44 pjb: you mean i can set printcase and then type my code in lower case? 13:17:50 sigh, pwm's teaching adnan about the goodness of sharepoint 13:18:10 b__: use alexandria:symbolicate 13:18:11 "it's webdav!" 13:18:13 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:14 oops 13:18:19 wrong window! 13:18:29 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 13:18:29 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 13:18:29 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 13:19:01 dekuked [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:05 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:19:16 b__: I wouldn't use alexandria it gets it wrong too. 13:19:30 b__: (setf *print-case* :downcase) 13:19:44 b__: generally (alexandria:symbolicate x "-" y "-" 'index) 13:19:57 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.82] has joined #lisp 13:20:01 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:20:04 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:20:13 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:20:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.82] has quit [Client Quit] 13:20:31 ok! heheh i though i was being pretty clever with intern 13:20:33 b__: will work no matter the underlaying case of lisp.. Some modern lisps are lowercasing, and there are also inverted readtables, to support mixed case symbols (ie one One ONE are all different) 13:20:39 symbolicate like above will work with all of them 13:21:34 ok 13:22:04 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.82] has joined #lisp 13:22:11 why does alexandria:symbolicate follow *print-case*? bug or? 13:22:56 asvil [~asvil@178.121.54.170] has joined #lisp 13:23:59 actually it doesn't pjb. (let ((*print-case* :downcase)) (alexandria:symbolicate 'foo "-" 'bar)) => FOO-BAR 13:24:43 kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.80] has joined #lisp 13:24:43 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.80] has quit [Changing host] 13:24:44 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:24:58 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@207-250-131-187.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 13:24:59 Odin- [~sbkhh@214-106-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is] has joined #lisp 13:27:05 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:27:30 why use 'one instead of "one" is demonstrated by this example (with invert readtable in effect) http://paste.lisp.org/display/129635 13:27:40 i recently found out that doing what alexandria:symbolicate does is not worth it (namely, pre-allocating a string and the replacing the contents, instead of using string output streams) 13:28:58 bruno_coelho [~bruno_coe@177.98.140.130] has joined #lisp 13:29:10 ok, now i have to make critical decision in my app, I got indexes and data persist using cl-store, now i got to provide concurrent access to this inmemory data 13:29:41 i have never written a line of locking etc before as it as all before handled declaratively in big java frameworks 13:30:29 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:30:36 i assume reading stuff there is no need to lock anything 13:30:49 actually its a bad example, readtable has no effect on that example.. But basically hardcoding "one" or "ONE" you are hardcoding the assumption about default readtable case of implementation, while using 'one does not 13:30:55 b__: why do you need concurrent access? 13:30:58 b__: if you're not afraid to read inconsistenst data, that is 13:31:13 if hunchentoot two threads 13:31:20 -!- arnuld [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/arnuld] has left #lisp 13:31:21 one trying to read an order object other trying to read it 13:31:29 and lets say they end up running on two cpus 13:31:30 b__: but if all data is in memory, what is the point of accessing it concurrently? 13:31:49 umm, through a webapp 13:32:04 multiusers tyring using order data 13:32:08 b__: i'd just lock the database for each request. 13:32:20 whole thing? 13:32:22 umm 13:32:35 yes,, it would be fast i guess 13:32:50 even for reads? 13:32:51 b__: right. it would be fast, and it would be robust, too. 13:33:15 b__: if your data is not huge, sure, why not? better than risking an inconsistent read image. 13:34:16 with avl trees lookup i am taking around 1ms on average read 13:34:59 it sounds good in theory, how do i test this 13:35:24 would have to write some kind of multiple read crawler to pound hunchentoot and observe .. 13:36:10 b__: i use tsung for load testing. it is gread. 13:36:12 great. 13:36:34 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:36:40 about this single lock, should i write one from scratch (actually just started reading CLOS by Sonya Keene, and its got a chapter on locks example 13:36:41 b__: and i have had great success with small to moderate sites running on one cpu serialized. 13:36:48 hmm 13:36:51 b__: use bordeaux-threads 13:37:13 b__: you only need one top-level lock, nothing fancy and nothing to write a class for. 13:37:50 ok, sounds like a leap of faith :) 13:38:04 ok, i go with this, its easy and i will know early if it goes wrong 13:38:05 thanks! 13:38:11 b__: sounds like avoiding premature optimization 13:38:23 yep 13:38:48 b__: good luck, you'll not need much of it :) 13:38:51 H4ns: Why do i need bordeaus-threads ? 13:39:02 to implement the single lock? 13:39:13 and this strategy wont work on multi core cpus? 13:39:15 b__: for bt:with-lock-held 13:39:28 b__: sure it will work, but it will only use one cpu 13:39:45 b__: so you have the others free to run cron jobs or robots or what have you 13:40:12 :D 13:40:22 off i go, lets see 13:40:50 b__: one more thing 13:41:17 b__: if you use the single threaded taskmaster, you'll not even need a lock because hunchentoot will serialize the requests for you. 13:41:42 b__: just sayin. that, and a caching proxy, can create very effective and load resilient setups. 13:42:03 b__: the multi threaded task master is not quite as robust. 13:43:55 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-64-129-220-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:46:07 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 13:46:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:47:03 i cant use a proxy, i need to show updated order data each time, there is not much other content. 13:47:16 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 13:47:20 so..hunchentoot will just pipe the requests.. sounds good and scary 13:47:45 thanks very much! 13:47:51 b__: give it a try. the proxy is good to decouple request processing and network i/o even if you don't want it to cache 13:47:58 sounds like you are re-inventing everything that a mature SQL DBMS makes easy. 13:48:10 b__: and you can always control which resources are cached and which are not. 13:48:18 I hope reinvention impresses your boss. 13:48:32 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Client Quit] 13:48:36 zfx: i want to do this, years o java, i didnt learn anything at all i wasted myself 13:48:40 zfx: #java is over there. 13:49:00 what does Java have to do with SQL DBMSes? 13:49:17 *sykopomp* wondered the same thing. 13:49:18 zfx: if you want to impress your boss, java is a good companion to sql dbmses 13:49:28 java hid from me everything, i was like princess not knowing anything but still working 13:49:28 why? 13:49:29 zfx: except the mature SQL DB does not know what to do with CLOS instances 13:49:40 zfx: this is lisp. we, by definition, don't care so much about what our bosses think. 13:50:10 _nix00 [~Adium@222.65.226.4] has joined #lisp 13:50:27 b__ has stated previously that he is putting something together to impress his boss. 13:50:36 H4ns: the problem is that we don't have bosses :) 13:50:55 and I don't know who "we" is supposed to refer to, although I assume it's this little echo chamber of nonsense you have going. 13:51:01 i put feelers out to him, and he doesnt know anything 13:51:06 so i have decided i am not going to tell him 13:51:11 i am coding this on my own time 13:51:23 i will skip CTO and directly showcase to coufounders of the company 13:51:35 my boss wouldn't be very impressed if I started writing Java. 13:51:36 zfx: i'm not quite sure what this agressive tone is about. 13:51:41 jdz: from what he has described, he doesn't need a whole lot of CLOS. 13:51:42 zfx: what H4ns is implying, is that lisp is a nonconventional language. if you're managed by what's commonly called 'corporate' then you most likely will not get a chance to use lisp. 13:51:47 Actually, I think I would be fired on the spot for even entertaining the idea. 13:52:04 actually lisp has ruined me in a way 13:52:06 I know what Lisp is, thanks. 13:52:16 i now, cant write a line of java now, it makes me die inside 13:52:20 sykopomp: they fire you because you *only* entertain! (i kid) 13:52:21 but my cv is full of java! 13:52:35 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:52:49 I am using it perfectly profitably with PostgreSQL. 13:53:12 (incf pomo) 13:54:05 zfx: let b__ have their fun. If it works, great, if not, it's a lesson. 13:54:18 zfx: well, i think it was b__ who was struggling with cl-store and dumping his stuff into bultiple files yesterday 13:54:29 it doesn't devalue your efforts with pg. 13:54:37 i think i got my bases covered, i am going to justify it anyway to *them* 13:54:42 zfx: SQL is not very handy for storing arbitrary hierarchy data 13:54:57 as its only been a month, and i am supposed to be doing java design docs etc 13:55:03 jdz: nonsense. 13:55:13 it can be 13:55:14 i will just say hey i built a running model, and now use the team to build it 13:55:26 read the literature on representing hierarchies using the relational model. 13:55:39 zfx: i struggled, but i was happy :) 13:55:44 tritchey [~tritchey@50-77-184-57-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:03 b__, fair enough. I think you are creating a lot of unnecessary work for yourself, though. 13:56:06 Relational databases are exceptionally good for the sort of data they're designed for, and fairly good for the sort of data that can be shoehorned into a form that looks similar. Which is an awful lot of stuff. 13:56:08 zfx: the point is not about hierarchies, but arbitrariness 13:56:11 jdz: I've worked on lisp projects where we used SQL to do exactly that. Only time will tell if that's really 'successful', though :) 13:56:16 benny` [~benny@i577A80EE.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:56:20 But, oddly enough, not everything. 13:56:31 -!- benny` is now known as benny 13:56:44 well, i know, there are triple stores built on top of SQL 13:56:50 relational databases are remarkably compitable with predicate logic. 13:56:52 jdz: I'm talkin' arbitrary. 13:56:56 compatible, sorry. 13:57:03 but then, it is no longer SQL, or this discussion is pointless 13:57:15 unfortunately. I'm getting bad flashbacks already. 13:57:18 so unless you have a problem that you can't apply predicate logic to... 13:57:39 To me it was just my brain distraction, i like lisp because it lets me think of my problem, i want to remain in lisp thinking 13:57:41 kennyd: I guess the bug/specification is in format-symbol or something. 13:57:55 i waste more time, thinking about sql , orm , mapping, db commands, sql 13:58:02 zfx: That's getting pretty close to turing tarpit territory, though. 13:58:05 b__, don't bother with an ORM. 13:58:32 well my cto *loves* orm :) 13:58:33 Odin-, why? 13:58:44 redis makes a nice data store. sets, hashes, lists. quite nice. 13:59:03 i guess one of the most important things is having fun. if you have fun you get a huge productivity boost anyways 13:59:12 configured properly it's also very durable. 13:59:24 and works nicely with CL. :) 13:59:52 zfx: In that you can use predicate logic to do anything, but that doesn't mean it's practical. 14:00:09 Odin-, it is close to predicate logic, but isn't exactly predicate logic. 14:00:12 b__: there's nothing unlispy about using sql, imo. Certainly nothing 'Lispy' about serializing everything with cl-store. 14:00:14 rucksack handles optimistic concurrency and it has all features i thought of, but it keeps throwing random errors 14:00:28 rucksack can be hard to get used to 14:00:46 s/get used to/get working at all/ 14:00:51 I used it for a project and I'm still not sure it was a good choice 14:00:53 Odin-, you can think of each relation type as a predicate, and the tuples in a relation as instances of that predicate. that 'mapping' offers you a useful tool for modelling your system. 14:00:54 b__: you said you can shove all your data in memory? 14:00:56 sykopomp: as you say 14:01:20 when designing a db system, think through the following use cases.. a) A new attribute needs to be added to an object b) what about new attribute need to be added, but old codebase needs to continue to work c) what if new attribute need to be added. d) How are many-to-many relationships enforced, ie parent being deleted, which layer deletes children? 14:01:21 sykopomp: i dont write sql with cl-store, i remain in lisp interface and so thinking 14:01:30 Odin-, however, as I'm sure you well know, most mature SQL products are quite well performing and straightforward to use. so I don't see why it is a Turing tarpit. 14:01:59 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:02:01 zfx: lack of recursion. 14:02:10 because most of overhead of SQL and ORM comes not from initial implementation, where you can rebuild the toy db from scratch, but once initially done, and then you need to continue to develop 14:02:38 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:40 pjb, see WITH RECURSIVE in PostgreSQL, or CONNECT BY in Oracle. 14:03:00 maxm: rucksack has a bug in class redefinition, if you delete existing slots, i falls over 14:03:07 zfx: Relational algebra imposes quite a few restrictions on the datastore, restrictions that are lifted once you start using it to implement predicate logic. The fact that SQL is efficient does not mean that any system implemented on top of it is efficient. 14:03:27 zfx: yeah, and my instances have slots which have list of different class instances 14:03:28 Odin-, relational algebra says nothing about data stores. 14:03:34 it uses set-dfference function 14:03:40 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has joined #lisp 14:04:08 jdz, slots and instances have nothing to do with relational databases or SQL databases. 14:04:09 to find out slot diffs in old slots and new slots, but it should be using some kind of symmetrical set-diff 14:04:11 zfx: Fair enough. It imposes restrictions on the ways you store and retrieve data. 14:04:29 I don't understand why I'm even seeing a database war in #lisp. 14:04:31 Odin-, it doesn't do that either. the relational algebra an abstract mathematical model. 14:04:39 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:49 syko: my fault  I had a severe reaction to H4ns's stupid comment about Java and SQL. 14:05:17 Odin-, there is some really good literature out there about it all. anything by Codd or Date is a good start. 14:05:18 I'm sure there's some topical lotion for that. 14:05:32 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 14:05:54 syko, for stupid commentary? 14:06:01 zfx: yes 14:06:03 zfx: ofc, but if my application has instances and slots, and i use cl-store to store them, and use locking to ensure consistency, don't tell me that any mature SQL DB can do that, because they can't 14:06:14 the lotion is called 'Lisp' 14:06:17 *maxm-* had actually seen single lock approach fail rather spectacularly in real life under load, while working absolutely fine in development/testing 14:06:23 -!- bruno_coelho [~bruno_coe@177.98.140.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:07:02 maxm: how come testing didnt catch it out? 14:07:12 jdz: I meant that a mature SQL DBMS can solve his *actual* problem, not the pretend problem he has invented for himself with CLOS and CL-STORE. 14:07:13 testing load was just lesser? 14:07:33 CLOS instances are boring. 14:08:01 jdz: you're doing it wrong. you should first design the DB then adapt the code(and its data structures) to the DB schema 14:08:04 jdz: if this is just a learning exercise for him, then let him go mad. my understanding is that he is trying to impress his boss with a practical application of CL. 14:08:12 b__: can't test 5000 union workers eager to test out "the new online checkin/checkout/vacation/call-in-sick/trade" system that was promised them for 5 years 14:08:17 client was SAS airlines ground team 14:09:09 countless man-months were spent on clustering and failover too, no one realizing there was a single lock hidden in the middle layer that some guy wrote 5 years ago and since then left :-) 14:09:12 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.54.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:09:52 bahahaha 14:09:55 dealing with locks is a pain in the arse for most problems. just use someone else's battle-worn transaction system. 14:09:58 it was lisp project? 14:09:59 fe[nl]ix, zfx: yeah, sure, so i thought. CLOS is crap, i should not use it. 14:10:00 hehe 14:10:14 thanks for your warning guys, now i know better. 14:10:21 who said it was crap? 14:10:25 I am just using clos as structures, nothing fancy except little bits inheritance 14:10:47 I don't really understand why people are so obsessed with object databases and using CLOS instances transparently. 14:11:06 although it sounds like a fun hack 14:11:21 syko: because people believe that you should only have to learn one way of modelling a problem, and never, ever have to deal with anything else, by hook or by crook. 14:11:21 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:53 and others have a serious reading comprehension problem when you explain the value of other approaches, like jdz. 14:11:55 sykopomp: because i want to use CLOS, and i don't care how the instances are persisted. But now i'm educated that CLOS should not be used, so for me this disucssion is over. 14:12:20 and yet others have some kind of serious disorder that causes them to associate completely unrelated things, like H4ns. 14:12:21 jdz: I never said that CLOS should not be used 14:12:22 jdz: umad 14:12:29 jiroukaja [~jiroukaja@softbank221094150218.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:40 My reasons were just to use memory, ideally, i would have some kind of Ram connected to a battery 14:12:52 jdz: care to elaborate on details of being touched in bad place by clos? 14:13:09 jdz: I also use CLOS, but not for dealing with persistence or databases. am I cognitive-dissonant? 14:13:25 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:41 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 14:13:53 e.g. creating CLOS protocols to deal with heterogenous (but conceptually related) external systems. 14:14:00 zfx: i'm not a doctor, so the question is misdirected. 14:14:41 jdz: well I confused if you mean "now that I been educated that clos sohuld not be used" is for real or sarcastic comment, my question was serious 14:15:09 jdz: hopefully you got my point. 14:15:14 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:15:53 zfx: my point is that if i use CLOS to build the application logic around, you should not be coming around and telling me to dump CLOS and use SQL DB instead. 14:16:01 end of story 14:16:07 zfx: You're one of the examples of the first group in your classification. 14:16:20 naryl, and how did you deduce that? 14:16:48 ah well yes I'm on your side.. You can use other attractive attributes of SQL db, but kind of hide the complex often changing objects as blobs 14:17:05 attractive attributes of SQL db being ACID/transactional properties 14:17:11 I suspect you used a combination of smashing your head against your desk and pulling things out of your arse. 14:17:52 SQL can be a really nice way to structure your data, if you embrace the way it works. 14:19:38 sykopomp: unfortunately doing it manually is a chore.. Yes its possible to work "the sql way", but then it just ends up all that seductive to use triggers, and much faster to produce reports or do batch jobs by doing them as stored procedures.. So before you know it, you find yourself in a shop full of DBAs, with all your app logic hidden in bunch of proprietary SQL-extension language, and tied to a single DB vendor 14:20:20 and its very hard to get out of such situation, or change db vendor 14:20:30 zfx: Your suspection is wrong, as... often. And I don't feel like proving something to somebody who behaves like he's the only sane person in the world. 14:22:14 naryl, I think I was probably right: unjustified assertions are fairly common from arse-pickers like yourself. 14:22:15 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:22:23 anyway, toodle-pip, this was fun. 14:24:55 xan_ [~xan@pc1.sakuravod-unet.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:26:08 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-65-96-162-9.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:26:44 ah #lisp, always mature 14:27:57 spelling it arse makes it classy 14:28:43 i haven't been following all of the database talk, but is anyone exploring persistent storage systems with datalog semantics in CL? 14:28:57 madnificent: Looks like I added him to the ignore list too early and missed the opportunity to learn some new words. :D 14:30:07 hunchentoot: :max-thread-count lets you set the maximum number of request threads that can be processes simultaneously 14:31:24 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:33:18 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #lisp 14:33:36 sly: datomic might interest you. 14:34:24 sly: it uses datalog as a query language. 14:36:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:36:49 -!- cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:37:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:39:04 slyrus: I'd be interested, fwiw (: 14:40:44 maxm-: we're doing it that way at my current employer, stored procedures FTW and performance is stellar: no network round-trips, etc... 14:40:53 zfx: yeah, but it's 1) clojure and 2) commercial-ish 14:40:58 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:41:19 sly: yeah. I wonder how hard it would be to write a CL library for it, though. 14:42:07 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:44:17 adu [~ajr@ip-64-134-100-182.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:18 Just write your stored procedures in python or scheme. 14:44:43 I shy away from stored procs these days. not really getting a lot of benefit out of them. 14:44:50 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 14:44:59 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 14:45:14 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:15 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:53 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.245] has joined #lisp 14:51:01 -!- b__ [~b@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:51:49 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-198-135.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:52:12 paul0 [~paul0@189.115.61.215] has joined #lisp 14:56:48 -!- dan64- [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:58:50 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has joined #lisp 15:00:25 -!- georges_ [~textual@24-104-129.146.hfc.mediarain.com] has left #lisp 15:02:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:04:54 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-cdbibsvzyvceduin] has joined #lisp 15:05:08 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:19 -!- jiroukaja [~jiroukaja@softbank221094150218.bbtec.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:41 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-138.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:06:48 is there some AWS (route53, S3) services API wrapper available in CL? 15:07:31 mmm, http://www.xach.com/lisp/zs3/ it seems :) 15:07:44 zs3 is fantastic 15:07:45 by fantastic I mean wonderful 15:08:16 I have problems with boto in python when I want to just export a dns zone, credential issue, can't make it to work 15:08:16 and by wonderful I mean one of my favorite things ever, and everyone should use it, or at least quickload it, regardless of whether they're using AWS in their apps at all. As a good luck charm. 15:08:22 hehe 15:08:37 sykopomp: ok so now I'm considering CL instead of python for my purpose here 15:09:05 now, I will need to run system commands, in a portable way if at all possible (sbcl, ccl), is there a trivial lib that I can trust to that? 15:09:25 there's trivial-shell. 15:09:44 sbcl's and ccl's run-program are very very similar 15:09:47 and some others too, would you recommend trivial-shell? 15:10:26 I'm not a fan of passing strings to sh, though. Composing the argument list and run-program directly is more robust, but not all implementations support that, iirc (but sbcl and ccl both do). 15:10:27 b_ [~b@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:31 hitecnologys [~noname@46.233.230.93] has joined #lisp 15:11:07 -!- hitecnologys [~noname@46.233.230.93] has quit [Client Quit] 15:13:30 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:13:51 whatever happened to cl-posix? 15:15:40 zs3 provides no support for route53, not what I need 15:16:03 add it 15:16:18 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:16:26 dunno if I have any chance of making it work quicker than understanding the python errors 15:16:53 -!- Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.9.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:17:12 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:17:12 but then you're stuck with python, which is certainly unfortunaate. 15:18:13 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:19:34 -!- b_ [~b@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:19:48 b- [~chatzilla@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:19:49 -!- b- is now known as b_ 15:20:01 AlexHe [~AndChat32@114.112.46.39] has joined #lisp 15:20:03 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-203.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:21:57 my colleagues will like it better (unless boto just fails) 15:22:31 I pity your colleagues. 15:22:39 I didn't choose those 15:22:48 and well we're not a developper team 15:23:12 dlowe: as always, lack of resources. 15:23:17 and I prefer them to use python rather than convoluted shell scripts 15:23:19 dlowe: we need more lisp programmers. 15:23:19 -!- xyxu [~Adium@180.158.178.70] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:23:23 pjb: yes. 15:23:43 that said I wouldn't require a dba to know CL to hire him 15:24:32 I've found that turning a reasonably curious python programmer into a lisp programmer is not an unduly arduous task. 15:24:51 reasonably curious is a fine way of putting it 15:25:07 Fade: lol 15:25:08 pjb: I might be interested in picking it up again. 15:25:15 adding python to their portfolio in order to stop writing insane bash script has not been that easy 15:25:18 pjb: I already wrote a printf :D 15:25:26 if you're surrounded by guys that are just there to punch their time sheet, you're going to drown in push back. 15:25:37 that was before I realized quicklisp makes CL a very practical dev.env. 15:26:26 Fade: if you're surrounded by timesheet-punchers, you should probably hurry up and change that fact. 15:26:32 if you only devel internal helpers and do so like, aggregated, 2 weeks a year, learning yet another language is not an easy sell 15:26:45 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:26:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@pc1.sakuravod-unet.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:50 dlowe: http://www.cliki.net/cl-posix-generalities http://www.cliki.net/cl-posix-dirent http://www.cliki.net/cl-posix-header-list 15:26:55 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:26:58 sykopomp: I make it a mission to ferret them out in the technical interview. 15:26:59 pjb: yeah, I was looking at those 15:27:39 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:27:43 dim: nobody who only learns in paid training ever becomes fluent in any language. 15:27:51 let alone lisp 15:27:51 hitecnologys [~noname@46.233.230.93] has joined #lisp 15:28:03 xan_ [~xan@pc1.sakuravod-unet.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:28:15 pjb: seems like the hard part is getting the constants from the underlying system 15:28:33 Fade: how do you distinguish between punchers and people who value their out-of-work life? 15:28:38 You could write a  library to do that. 15:28:43 Fade: unless paycheck covers learning and provides practical examples 15:28:51 dlowe: and posix has already a function for a few of them. 15:29:15 pjb: it's nice that someone has written libfixposix too 15:29:16 dlowe: A *lot* of this is already done by iolib, fwiw. 15:29:18 sykopomp: I ask about and drill down on hobby projects. A hacker ususally shines more when he's talking about the toys he made. 15:29:47 I don't know if iolib's architecture is worth reusing for a separate system, but it already has the FFI stuff for a bunch of core syscalls, an error signaling system, and the like. 15:29:52 As I see it, CL-POSIX would be more like a specification of how the POSIX API is defined in CL. 15:30:51 well, I was just thinking that it's a pity trivial-shell doesn't have a comparable interface to fork/exec 15:30:52 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:30:57 also, interest in things like music. 15:31:14 I've had great luck hiring hacker/musicians. 15:31:32 Fade: bonus is that you can jam together after work 15:31:39 ^^^ 15:33:20 -!- hitecnologys [~noname@46.233.230.93] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:34:05 I think there's room for a system in CL that mirrors the functionality of python's sys module. 15:34:14 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: guyal] 15:34:26 er os 15:34:31 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:32 maybe both 15:35:15 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-jrymtrrdevcqyneu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:36:19 subsystem too 15:37:22 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-205-131.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:23 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:38:43 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 15:38:55 -!- CrLF0710 [~user@114.96.67.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:40:42 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128036067.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 15:41:38 -!- DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@63-231-108-178.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:43:17 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:46:52 plt borat is pretty funny 15:47:10 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@50-77-184-57-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 15:48:44 -!- xan_ [~xan@pc1.sakuravod-unet.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:49:02 -!- AlexHe [~AndChat32@114.112.46.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:49:38 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 15:51:07 as good as the devops one? 15:52:01 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:52:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:52:43 If I wrap my hunchentoot handler calls in acquire and release lock code, then if handler goes into air due to continuation, the lock wont be released till someone umm continues the continuation.. 15:53:03 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:53:38 b_: you're not using the single threaded taskmaster? 15:53:40 ... On the one hand, why are you mis-using locks like that? On the other hand, why are you bothering with continuations like that? 15:54:23 H4ns: I tried using single threaded master but it took up my slime repl and if break it then hunchentoot stops 15:54:37 i want repl to be available while i work on it 15:55:15 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:55:20 -!- arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:24 b_: start it in a new thread 15:55:26 xan_ [~xan@pc1.sakuravod-unet.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:55:33 nyef: its a web workflow, yes i shouldnt use like that, i should acquire only inside the actual read and write functions 15:55:37 arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:56:20 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:56:42 H4ns: ok )) 15:57:10 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 15:57:56 but i hope the single threaded master also doesnt conflict with cl-cont 15:58:28 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@222.65.226.4] has left #lisp 15:59:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:59:11 H4ns: I know nothing about CL threading support, any hint on how to spawn ht in a new thread? 15:59:43 Just use the threaded taskmaster, and it spawns its own? Or has that changed since last September? 16:02:33 It works just that it doesnt return after (start acceptor) 16:02:39 ie i loose repl 16:03:06 Hunh. 16:03:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:04:09 And I'm sufficiently unfamiliar with hunchentoot and your deployment environment that I can't really help debug that. /-: 16:06:17 what happens when you start the acceptor like (bordeaux-threads:make-thread (lambda () (start acceptor))) 16:06:20 ? 16:08:16 I guess you could also start swank inside a dedicated thread. 16:09:34 Fade: yes was trying this, this way works 16:12:24 and single thread doesnt go away with continuation, so each request finishes up cleanly as far htoot is concerned 16:13:19 Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.1.135] has joined #lisp 16:15:29 nicdev_ [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 16:16:20 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 16:17:18 -!- zfx [~zfx@109.174.157.242] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 16:20:24 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-197-176.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 16:20:33 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-233-246.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:51 is the sbcl gc global? if I run without-gcing in one thread, are objects used by other threads not destroyed? 16:22:38 dekuked: GC has to stop all threads 16:23:01 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-225-230.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:23:02 p_l it does? so it's stop-the-world gc? 16:24:30 err, I'm just going to go read the sbcl docs for a bit 16:24:39 dekuked: it has to synchronize threads. But yes, I think it's stop-the-world 16:25:57 Weird behavior of single threaded task master: I put 5 seconds sleep in one handler, clicked it from web, and then clicked some other handlers, the first one responded in 5 seconds 16:26:16 but the other two requests just hung on browser "connecting" 16:26:24 for around a minute 16:26:47 seems like you could just stop threads that tried to allocate. 16:26:53 i accepted it to queue them up and eat them as soon as it was finished 16:27:09 I guess they'd get upset when you were moving blocks of their memory around. 16:27:18 -!- smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:27:58 m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.186] has joined #lisp 16:28:04 expected* 16:29:07 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-96-143.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:10 b_: you might be interested in mongrel2 16:29:32 I don't have a lot of hunchentoot experience, so can't speak directly to your issues. 16:33:00 -!- adu [~ajr@ip-64-134-100-182.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 16:33:56 i netstated the connections so browser has made the connection, its just that hunchentoot, is lagging in picking up other requests after the sleep request 16:33:58 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat komfortabelt. Hvor som helst.] 16:34:08 Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:34:44 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:52 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:36:07 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.218] has joined #lisp 16:37:31 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 16:38:33 mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has joined #lisp 16:39:45 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-117-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:00 pnq [~nick@ACA27C6E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:40:15 -!- az [~ans@jb.znaider.de] has left #lisp 16:40:39 Mjiig [~angus@levelgrove.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:40:47 tritchey [~tritchey@50-77-184-57-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:01 is there a common preference as to which common lisp implementation to use, or are they all roughly equivalent? 16:43:40 Mjiig: Use what-implementation is at telnet://clis.informatimago.com:8101 16:44:18 Mjiig: In terms of conformity, they're all roughly equivalent (but perhaps gcl and experimental implementations). 16:44:41 But they have quite distinct features, so depending on your needs, you will use one or another. 16:44:49 I see mostly SBCL and CCL here. 16:44:53 Notice that needs change during the different phases of a project. 16:47:52 okay, just wanted to make sure there wasn't severe fragmentation and i was going to end up going a dead end route 16:48:01 -!- Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.1.135] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:32 which i was a little worried about since lisp as a whole is fragmented 16:51:36 many implementations is a good thing. 16:52:14 Mjiig: nope, one of many benefits to CL being a standard 16:52:22 I actively use 2-3 implementations, and they each have different advantages. Generally, I can run my code on all or most of them. 16:52:29 along with "i can run code written 5 years ago and it still works with the latest build" 16:52:42 or more, of course 16:52:46 (and the things I write often run on even more implementations than what I use) 16:52:49 I tend to use sbcl and less frequently ccl, but will sometimes debug complex loop forms in clisp. 16:52:57 sykopomp: yeah very helpful for debugging 16:54:01 I use CCL as my main dev platform, prefer SBCL for fast final versions, and CLISP makes a great quick command-line calculator. 16:55:27 thank you very much, myself and a friend are planning to try and teach each other lisp over the summer, just wanted to check ahead of time there were good standardised implementations we'd be able to use 16:56:34 there's lots of them :) 16:56:35 Mjiig: there's a lot of good getting-started stuff out there .. making sure you have quicklisp, slime, paredit, etc set up is huge 16:57:18 mafs [~michael@unaffiliated/maikeru/x-7708887] has joined #lisp 16:57:42 Mjiig: ccl sbcl and clisp are all free and have good standards compliance. Some of the commercial implementations are also free (as in beer) for non-commercial use 17:03:15 oGMo: is slime really necessary, or are there good non-emacs ways to work with lisp? 17:04:16 Mjiig: you can try slimv, but emacs with lisp is where emacs shines. if you've never used lisp, you're probably used to edit-save-(compile)-run-stop-repeat 17:04:30 Mjiig: lisp+slime is "edit, compile, continue" 17:04:58 you don't leave the editor, you just hit compile and then call your function again interactively 17:05:04 Mjiig: embrace the slime. 17:05:36 lisp has a lot to offer just as a language, but not having editor support for this loses you a lot of what lisp has to offer as a development process 17:05:43 i've spent so much time using vim that i fell morally compelled to dislike emacs 17:05:51 slimv has similar for vim but i haven't used it (nor would bother, but) 17:05:58 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:06:05 but thanks, if its really valuable i'll work with it 17:06:06 eh. it's valuable to know both. 17:06:20 this is all about learning new things anyway 17:06:25 yeah 17:06:59 Mjiig: slime + paredit adds a lot .. paredit lets you slice and dice forms with great ease and eliminates counting parens heh 17:09:16 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 17:09:32 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has left #lisp 17:09:51 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 17:10:37 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@50-77-184-57-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 17:12:44 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Quit: Out of this 3D] 17:12:51 -!- b_ [~chatzilla@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120423122928]] 17:13:52 Gotta be pretty adventurous to learn paredit at the same time as you learn everything else. :) 17:14:08 booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:25 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 17:14:37 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:15:20 sykopomp: i'll see how things go... 17:15:25 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:25 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:19:04 *maxm-* points to evil/vimpulse mode.. As far as I'm concerned the pincacle of emacs evolution is it being vim coded in a sane scripting language 17:19:11 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:37 hell, I even have set -o vi support in my comint derived modes :-) 17:19:52 tritchey [~tritchey@50-77-184-57-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:04 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 17:29:50 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 17:31:02 -!- ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:32:15 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-161-110.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:32:45 Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.1.135] has joined #lisp 17:33:04 -!- xan_ [~xan@pc1.sakuravod-unet.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:33:10 Mjiig: I've been using some form of vi for 20 years, but I still use slime 17:34:18 I guess CUSP is dead these days? 17:34:44 -!- Mjiig [~angus@levelgrove.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:35:18 Mjiig: you can use this if you don't want to leave your vim keybindings behind, it plays fairly well with slime: http://emacswiki.org/emacs/Evil 17:35:33 Mjiig [~angus@levelgrove.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:36:01 maxm-: just saw you already recommended it; it turns out it's easier to implement vim in emacs than slime in vim, no? 17:38:50 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:50 Fade: iolib is slowly going in that direction(python's sys.* and os.*) 17:40:36 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.65.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:55 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.65.141] has joined #lisp 17:43:28 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@37.79.97.27] has joined #lisp 17:45:41 -!- ccomendant [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ccomendant] has left #lisp 17:48:30 -!- Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.1.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:49:05 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 17:49:16 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has left #lisp 17:50:21 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:55 I approve of this direction. :) 17:57:23 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-147-210.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:58:31 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:00:14 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:01:55 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 18:02:37 fukushima [~fukushima@z128.124-44-151.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:03:11 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:09 -!- jack_rabbit [~Jack_rabb@c-24-13-250-216.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:06:54 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@50-77-184-57-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 18:08:49 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:08:59 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:02 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:12:04 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177889984.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:17:39 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA27C6E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:18:53 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128036067.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:19:55 -!- Mjiig [~angus@levelgrove.demon.co.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:20:13 although if that's the case, perhaps changing the system name is worth considering. 18:20:44 Radium_ [~rajesh.na@117.203.1.135] has joined #lisp 18:20:56 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-25-97.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:22:51 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:24:04 lony [~lony@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:24:13 Jeanne-Kamikaze 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18:28:27 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:28:33 mikaelj [~tic@c83-249-198-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:29:22 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 18:29:37 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:30:31 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 18:31:46 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@37.79.97.27] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:32:13 holycow [~fekoff@69.172.160.67] has joined #lisp 18:32:26 lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-147-210.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 18:32:44 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128036067.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 18:32:45 ebw`````` [~user@krlh-4d03626d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:07 -!- ebw````` [~user@krlh-5f725c5d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:36:16 Fade: what kind of change ? 18:37:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:38:08 fe[nl]ix: oslib? :) 18:38:11 syslib? 18:38:46 CLOS 18:39:26 lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:25 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:14 pnathan [~pnathan@68-24-131-253.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:27 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 18:48:42 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:53:34 -!- pnathan [~pnathan@68-24-131-253.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:54:04 -!- dagal [~dagal@91.179.141.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:31 boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:25 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128036067.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:55:31 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:28 sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.115] has joined #lisp 18:59:34 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:00:59 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:02:21 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-51-100.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:44 -!- zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-ztdxqjbpfowndsza] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:05:09 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:05:24 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:05:28 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 19:06:09 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 19:06:43 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 19:07:43 zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-kdvgodclkvxdlqsx] has joined #lisp 19:10:11 b_ [~chatzilla@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:14 irpanech0 [~user@184.66.174.87] has joined #lisp 19:13:16 I got the hang of threads and locking, but is there a way i can make a bunch of write discrete operations act as atomic in memory? 19:14:16 STM, you mean? 19:14:35 or CAS? 19:14:43 just heard these now, thanks!, checking 19:15:36 *sykopomp* is happy to be a googleable-term-machine 19:16:47 (^_^;) 19:19:38 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-147-210.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:22:43 nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-219-0-207.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 19:23:32 -!- shifty is now known as Guest58016 19:23:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:25:29 Joreji [~thomas@85-204.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:25:59 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:26:29 wow 19:26:41 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 19:26:41 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:41 STM is exactly what i had in mind and theres cl-stm 19:26:45 thanks 19:27:34 -!- b_ 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has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:01 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-122-201.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:24 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-205-131.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:02:56 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-205-131.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:58 -!- cpc26 [~Adium@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:05:17 cpc26 [~Adium@50-52-233-128.drr01.drhm.nc.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:17 -!- cpc26 [~Adium@50-52-233-128.drr01.drhm.nc.frontiernet.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:05:17 cpc26 [~Adium@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 20:06:00 well, it already does a lot of stuff that isn't IO related. 20:06:17 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has left #lisp 20:06:55 L.OS 20:10:28 -!- Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:11:50 -!- booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC 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timeout: 248 seconds] 20:25:05 ozialien [~ozi@206.29.182.165] has joined #lisp 20:25:44 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:26:16 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@187.105.3.184] has joined #lisp 20:27:29 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:07 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:28:09 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-122-201.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:29:07 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:32:37 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-113-159.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:07 ... If one is sending a "Www-Authenticate: Basic" header, does it make sense to want to include a page body? 20:40:03 -!- holycow_ [~fekoff@69.172.160.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:40:15 holycow_ [~fekoff@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:17 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-86-234.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:40:35 -!- holycow [~fekoff@69.172.160.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:40:43 Specifically for if a client app sends bogus or blacklisted credentials, so that it can do something slightly more intelligent than say that some unspecified error has occurred. 20:40:48 holycow [~fekoff@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:41 nyef: I think I've seen that before. Don't know if it's up to spec or not, but I found it useful. 20:43:17 Okay, good. Now I just need to come up with a quick replacement for hunchentoot:require-authorization... At least that much should be easy. 20:43:27 *maxm-* just found the bug he was fighting and bisecting for 2 days 20:43:50 maxm-: May it be a better result than the last time I tried that. 20:43:57 should commit more often 20:44:31 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 20:44:44 really cramps one's style to be working hard and so happy with your refactorings and generalising stuff, only to discover than all new generic and elegant stuff fails horribly, and with so much refactorings its impossible to find when it borke 20:44:47 Heh. I broke my habit of large commits fairly quickly once I started using git. (-: 20:45:40 well at least now I have generic axis class, generic axis tick class, etc.. So I can implement new tick type, for example show company events or such by just making a class class and 3 methods 20:46:13 tick as in graphical tickmark on the chart axis, not "market data" meaning of the word 20:47:07 really cramps one's style when one goes off into grandiose 'generic' refactorings. 20:47:08 oh and it now of course updates dynamically and grows from both ends as live data comes in 20:47:57 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-33-144.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 20:48:01 sykopomp: heh, well gui's are where OO originated, its kind of natural to generalize stuff with guis 20:48:40 so natural that your code Just Works right away. 20:48:58 having a good protocol, with correct invalidation etc is critical... "you have a problem, you decided to use caching, now you have one problems" 20:49:00 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 20:49:38 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:49:43 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:50:02 bubble [~cdepauw@bootes.dreamhost.com] has joined #lisp 20:50:48 anyway, great day today, hopefully everyone coded something cool :-) 20:51:06 i am here looking for algorithm advice because a long time ago someone here told me to use a DAG to solve a problem and that was very useful for me 20:51:22 i hope it is OK to submit by problem to this channel 20:52:19 sure, shoot. Team toxic seems sleeping :-) 20:52:46 i have `blocks` of data which contain items them -each item has a timestamp 20:53:07 for the each block i know the earliest timestamp and the latest timestamp 20:54:06 i need to aquire the elements that would chronologically appear in between position x and position y 20:54:38 -!- arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:54:59 and i need to limit my access of the blocks to a minimum 20:55:08 Are blocks sorted? 20:55:12 or items in them? 20:55:20 maxm-: sorted on which end? 20:55:47 the blocks may contain items which appear with `overlapping` timestamps 20:55:55 bubble: you want an interval tree. 20:56:18 pkhuong: ok. thanks. 20:56:22 well assuming overlaps are not too much (ie ghant chart), you usually keep them sorted by block earliest ts 20:56:58 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:56:59 then binary search (lower-bound) the block <= range-start, then depending if range is large on not, either walk forward or binary search the end.. 20:57:18 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-233-246.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 20:57:36 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-233-246.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:48 maxm: ok thanks i will consider your approach as well 20:58:33 i need to research and consider my approach before I can discuss anything here adequately 20:58:54 this is the most valuable channel in freenode 20:58:55 hah, see pkhuong has me beat there.. I worked with this kind of data structure all the time and never heard of interval trees :-) 20:59:13 maxm-: yeah, that's pretty much what interval trees implement. 21:00:59 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.214.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:02:05 Joreji [~thomas@85-204.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:02:59 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:06:03 -!- Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 21:06:20 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-219-0-207.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:06:50 arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:08:19 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-232-211.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:43 -!- udzinari [user@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3aab] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:09:49 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-224-219.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:36 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:11:20 udzinari [user@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3aab] has joined #lisp 21:17:42 ckairaba [~ckairaba@77.96.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:53 -!- ckairaba [~ckairaba@77.96.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:18:45 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:19:14 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:31 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-197-176.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:57 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 21:33:19 mihi_tr [~inisp@62-47-136-78.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:33:22 aesundstrom [aesundstro@conference/itp/x-dexjqxkringycjwd] has joined #lisp 21:34:07 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:31 ohais 21:34:39 I got some sort of noob question 21:34:43 Bike [~Glossina@192.102.5.50] has joined #lisp 21:34:50 #clnoob might be more indicated then. 21:34:54 #clnoobs might be more indicated then. 21:34:57 actually. 21:35:03 suddenly! 21:35:08 oh i'll go there ~~ 21:35:11 mihi_tr: fire ahead 21:35:43 I want to create a new list of a (list :a 1 :b 3) where the key :b is replaced with a new value 21:35:45 As you wish. Toxic level is higher here than in #clnoobs. 21:35:50 how do I properly do that? 21:36:18 (let ((new-value (random 100))) `(list :a 1 ,new-value 3)) 21:36:29 mihi_tr: (setf (getf (copy-list list) :b) new-value) 21:36:39 (right now I'm using (setf (getf (list :a 1 :b 3) :b) new-value) 21:36:51 ok so you simply copy the list? 21:37:02 mihi_tr: if you need a copy, then yes. 21:37:40 You can also NOT copy it, and use instead: (setf plist (list* :b new-value plist)) 21:38:05 I don't neccessarily need it, but then my code would make some more sense 21:40:34 Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.1.135] has joined #lisp 21:41:22 ok and a second one, in some languages it's said to be bad style to use functions with side-effects in map, i guess this is the same right? 21:41:28 so do I use dolist instead? 21:41:57 Well, we're not so dogmatic in CL, this is a pragmatic programming language. 21:41:59 Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:11 If you want to have side effects in a function called from map/mapcar etc, so be it. 21:42:33 Notice however, that you cannot modify the spine of the list you're traversing. 21:42:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-204.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:42:50 mihi_tr: We even have MAPC, which is pretty much only useful for side-effects. 21:42:57 (that is, you can, but then your program is non-conforming). 21:43:20 spine? 21:43:34 -!- mel0on [~user@h-72-75.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:12 yes, the cons cells forming the toplevel list. 21:44:33 not their value or just not pop/push onto it? 21:45:09 You cannot modify the CDRs in the spine. You can use push or pop unless they'd modify the CDRs in the spine. 21:45:25 -!- jlongster [~user@ip-64-134-68-35.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:46:17 -!- aesundstrom [aesundstro@conference/itp/x-dexjqxkringycjwd] has quit [Quit: Mango IRC for iOS, http://mediaware.sk/mango] 21:46:48 ah now I understand, but if I modify the current element I'm fine I guess 21:47:39 Yes, you can modify the current elements, other elements, or the CARs holding them. 21:47:48 like (map 'list (lambda (x) (setf (getf x :b) (+ (getf x :a) (getf x :b)))) (list(list :a 1 :b 2)) 21:48:07 ok. makes sense. 21:48:18 However, if you modify the following CAR, you might not get them back in the function: the mapping function may fetch the CARs ahead. 21:48:29 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:48:43 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:48:59 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.218] has joined #lisp 21:49:02 aesundstrom [aesundstro@conference/itp/x-cbgczyxppatrwtqe] has joined #lisp 21:49:12 makes sense, yes 21:49:30 thanks, that will let me sleep in peace :) 21:49:55 -!- aesundstrom [aesundstro@conference/itp/x-cbgczyxppatrwtqe] has quit [Client Quit] 21:50:14 See "3.6 Traversal Rules and Side Effects" in CLHS. 21:54:29 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:44 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:45 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-147-210.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:55:46 jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:57 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:56:15 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:28 -!- superflit [~superflit@75-171-209-125.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:59:38 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:02:19 lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-147-210.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 22:03:00 -!- schmx [~marcus@c83-254-190-169.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:04:06 -!- holycow_ [~fekoff@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:04:06 -!- holycow [~fekoff@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:06:59 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@86.42.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:08:21 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.2] has joined #lisp 22:12:13 is there an easy way to relist the slime debug options? I'm always typing stupid shit and always want to abort the thread 22:13:47 oh wait, q does that 22:17:27 -!- mihi_tr [~inisp@62-47-136-78.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:19:44 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:20:29 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-147-210.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:22:24 thanks #list 22:22:26 #lisp 22:22:28 -!- bubble [~cdepauw@bootes.dreamhost.com] has left #lisp 22:24:47 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:24:53 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:08 -!- vinraec [~vinraec@cpe-184-57-2-253.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:31 hugod [~user@host213-123-202-151.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:15 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:26:22 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:23 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 22:32:18 Thanks, ants. Thants. 22:32:26 -!- dekuked [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:32:35 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 22:33:00 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 22:33:09 sproc [~csimons@64.58.242.230] has joined #lisp 22:35:33 -!- sproc [~csimons@64.58.242.230] has left #lisp 22:37:05 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:37:17 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:38:30 -!- arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:19 arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:11 lifeng [~lifeng@bb116-14-147-210.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 22:43:27 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-51-100.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:00 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.218] has joined #lisp 22:46:56 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 22:50:36 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:50:43 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:20 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:53:21 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:58:49 -!- harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:59:08 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:04:13 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:05:02 -!- joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:10:00 -!- arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:58 arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:11:11 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-113-159.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 23:12:44 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:13:02 jonaskoelker [~jonas@d58c5bd2.rev.dansknet.dk] has joined #lisp 23:21:54 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 23:25:56 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:26:50 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-107-3-142-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:55 -!- ozialien [~ozi@206.29.182.165] has quit [Quit: ozialien] 23:30:59 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:31:03 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-117-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:32:40 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:34:01 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:34:55 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 23:43:32 cbr [~cbr@78.191.38.110] has joined #lisp 23:43:33 -!- cbr [~cbr@78.191.38.110] has quit [Client Quit] 23:44:59 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 23:46:25 masq- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 23:47:24 jack_rabbit [~Jack_rabb@c-24-13-250-216.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:43 hello. how can I have slime autogrow minibuffer when showing function argument hints? seems like (setq resize-mini-windows t resize-minibuffer-window-max-height 10) should do it, but it has no effect 23:47:47 -!- specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:48:08 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:32 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012c0a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:37 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-tqlirokirwvielpz] has joined #lisp 23:52:44 Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:26 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:56 dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-20-172.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:07 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 23:54:34 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:45 masq-: I've noticed that even when my minibuffer is wider than 80 columns, function hints are still truncated to 80. I haven't looked into where that happens, but it'd be great to see it fixed. 23:57:29 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:59:29 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]