00:00:21 hitecnologys [~noname@46.233.207.250] has joined #lisp 00:00:21 -!- hitecnologys1 [~noname@46.233.207.250] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:02:27 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:03:10 hitecnologys1 [~noname@46.233.207.250] has joined #lisp 00:03:10 -!- hitecnologys [~noname@46.233.207.250] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:04:16 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:23 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:17 dekuked`` [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:53 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-35-218-39.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:09:46 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:10:04 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:10:45 -!- clintm [~clintm@001e52f0de2b.click-network.com] has quit [Quit: clintm] 00:10:53 xan_ [~xan@pc1.sakuravod-unet.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:11:31 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-35-216-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:12 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:17:25 -!- dekuked`` [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:18:09 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:18:33 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 00:21:38 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:55 arrsim` [~user@128.250.116.167] has joined #lisp 00:24:22 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:29:11 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 00:36:59 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:22 scombinator [~user@203.171.40.170] has joined #lisp 00:44:16 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:44:32 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 00:44:39 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:00 Hey, guys, does anybody know why CL-GTK2 requires only 2.0.0 version of glib? I've got this error (CFFI::FL-ERROR "Unable to load any of the alternatives:~% ~S" ("libglib-2.0.0.dylib" "libglib-2.0.dylib")). Whats wrong? There's nothing about it in documentation. 00:47:45 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:18 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:52:36 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 00:56:38 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:50 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:59:39 because it has no other way to refer to it 01:01:57 So, I need to install glib? 01:03:11 you don't already have it installed? 01:06:18 -!- |42| [user@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3aab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:19 No, I have, and it works with other applications. But maybe cl-gtk needs special glib? 01:06:34 2.0 is awfully specific. I have 2.32 01:07:17 Oh, but the lib is still called 2.0, odd that 01:07:46 Oh, so my glib is installed incorrectly? 01:08:09 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:29 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.5.148] has joined #lisp 01:08:54 it may be missing a few symlinks 01:09:46 Thanks for help. 01:10:01 -!- hitecnologys1 [~noname@46.233.207.250] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:10:03 -!- brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:10:29 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-232-211.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:01 tr-808_ [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 01:11:06 em_ [~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:12:54 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 01:12:57 lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:09 Eyes|Infinite [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 01:15:06 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] 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04:15:33 hi I am having trouble : c-f has lost it's keybinding in emacs. I have tried M-x global-set-key and the local version as well, but the problem is it will now allow me to input the ctrl char 04:15:51 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81025A.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:16:03 riemannSum: this channel is about common lisp. try #emacs 04:16:09 ie ok 04:16:11 sorry 04:16:36 pnq [~nick@AC81025A.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:16:48 schmx [~marcus@c83-254-190-169.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 04:17:04 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:17:46 -!- rodent` [~user@99-130-100-63.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:24:46 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176432531.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 04:25:01 -!- benny` [~benny@i577A8062.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:25:56 kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-36.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:29:09 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:31:07 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.115.62.71] has quit [Quit: paul0] 04:36:50 DataLinkDroid [~David@110.141.114.250] has joined #lisp 04:37:44 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-quyvqainmvaogufa] has joined #lisp 04:40:32 irpanech0 [~user@24.68.147.165] has joined #lisp 04:42:12 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@c-98-216-97-19.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:45 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 04:44:22 paul0 [~paul0@189.115.62.71] has joined #lisp 04:46:10 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:46:50 is there a way to search the #lisp logs? someone pointed me to a reference on the loop macro x days ago, and I seem to have forgot to bookmark it 04:47:07 asvil [~asvil@178.120.214.92] has joined #lisp 04:47:12 minion: please tell robot-beethoven about logs 04:47:12 robot-beethoven: please look at logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 04:47:23 although the only good reference is clhs 04:47:47 nicdev_` [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 04:48:28 -!- nicdev_ [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:49:32 ZombieChicken [~none@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 04:51:47 ahh, nice warm room 04:51:55 vax + alpha make good heaters 04:52:13 did you fall into a wormhole? 04:52:35 its possible 04:52:59 could have been a passing black hole 04:53:53 why do you ask 04:55:39 magnificrab: Don't you mean VMS + Alpha? An actual VAX belongs in a museum. Really, so does an Alpha. 04:56:22 I have the unfortunate task of pulling some Fortran code off of VMS, working on it at the very moment. But, the VMS is running on a virtual machine. 04:56:27 ThomasH: shh, they'll hear you 04:56:47 these aren't production machines 04:56:59 the alpha used to be a security trading platform for the ASX 04:57:09 got taken offline about 4 years ago 04:57:25 so, intel is the new alpha 04:57:30 now they're just for my own satisfaction of owning them 04:57:48 *stassats* tried to make a references to "alphas" in biology 04:57:56 That's about when my wife finally made me take my Alpha to a computer reseller. It was very difficult to leave behind. 04:58:18 my wife sounds more understanding 04:58:31 we have a deal about shoes and computers 04:58:53 The Alpha really had no use, it's just that it got me through graduate school and I was pretty sentimental about it. 04:59:06 magnificrab: Good deal. 04:59:26 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.169.76.5] has joined #lisp 04:59:45 i've got genera to go on this one 04:59:52 at the moment it's running openvms though 05:00:16 i still might stick with ovms and do some ada dev 05:00:44 magnificrab: I would love to play with genera just to see what all of the hub-bub is about. There are probably still some genera concepts that could be useful. 05:01:07 grab ubuntu + the genera x64 hack 05:01:14 it's mostly functional 05:01:26 i have it on a vm at work for when i get bored 05:01:43 magnificrab: I think I have the genera repository. Would that run on Virtual Box? 05:02:05 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.115.62.71] has quit [Quit: paul0] 05:02:16 not sure. i have a .tar.gz that i inherited somewhere, never seen it offered online 05:02:24 i've got the alpha sources as well 05:02:57 magnificrab: I think it was a pirated version. Just checked and see that I've actually deleted it. 05:03:42 It was on some p2p network. 05:04:09 lemme see if i can locate the bouncing ball guide 05:05:03 http://www.advogato.org/person/johnw/diary.html?start=12 05:05:18 i can pop the tarball up on an ftp if you want it 05:06:14 magnificrab: Nah, I really don't have the time and don't want to waste yours. Thanks. 05:06:52 *magnificrab* is avoiding the job of using cvs 05:06:57 its kind of doing me a favor :P 05:07:07 paul0 [~paul0@189.115.62.71] has joined #lisp 05:07:28 Heh 05:10:17 the tarball isn't where i thought it was anyway 05:10:24 wonder where it went 05:11:43 ah, found it 05:12:42 Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has joined #lisp 05:12:59 -!- Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has left #lisp 05:13:14 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:28 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has joined #lisp 05:15:36 stassats: the clhs loop chapter is looking like it will enable me to finally feel stable in the loop macro. 05:15:47 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.115.62.71] has quit [Quit: paul0] 05:19:12 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:21:00 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-181-135.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:21:04 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:22:18 -!- adu 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[~zfx@host86-166-247-216.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 07:12:03 wztian [~wztian@li400-235.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 07:12:51 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:14:47 hitecnologys [~noname@46.233.207.250] has joined #lisp 07:16:03 -!- hyoyoung [seoz@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:18:15 With clisp, how can I get an input stream from a pipe ? I see "(EXT:MAKE-PIPE-INPUT-STREAM command ...)", but I'd like something for "some_program | clisp myprogram.lisp": how do I get the stream in that case? 07:18:19 hyoyoung [seoz@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has joined #lisp 07:21:17 gko: i'm not a clisp user, but does *standard-input* not work? 07:21:40 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:21:49 -!- zophy [~zophy__@24.111.175.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:22:13 H4ns: Oh... LEt's try... 07:22:38 -!- Guest89 is now known as shifty 07:22:46 b_ [~b@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:23:46 H4ns: works :) Thanks! 07:25:01 -!- metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:27:06 metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 07:30:01 H4ns: what if it's binary stuff? 07:30:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:35:23 Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.15.157] has joined #lisp 07:35:56 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 07:36:21 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 07:37:02 gko: then you'll have to open a binary stream on fd0 07:37:12 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 07:37:34 gko: if you're on unix, /dev/fd/0 will be usable as path name for standard input, so you can just open a binary stream on that path 07:38:00 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-46-19.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:02 BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.12.95] has joined #lisp 07:38:03 gko: most implementations also give you some way to attach a stream to an open fd directly, but you'll have to find out if and how clisp does that yourself. 07:38:58 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:39:02 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@153-150-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:39:04 H4ns: OK, I'll look for it. Thanks. 07:39:04 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:39:48 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-148-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:48 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-148-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:39:49 -!- gigamonkey_ is now known as gigamonkey 07:46:48 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:49:02 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:49:56 (ext:make-stream *standard-input* :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)) does it. 07:51:50 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-24-63-135-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:53:04 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:53:51 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-107-3-142-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 07:57:48 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-cawxppedeoxzrtzb] has joined #lisp 08:00:12 Amadiro 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[~lars_t_h@002128036067.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:20:05 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-122-201.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:20:28 xan_ [~xan@p4244-ipbffx02marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:22:27 -!- Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.15.157] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:26:40 -!- wztian_ [~wztian@218.89.36.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:30:15 Radium_ [~rajesh.na@117.203.15.157] has joined #lisp 08:31:32 zfx [~zfx@host86-166-247-216.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:31:52 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.42.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:32:52 mucker [~mucker@202.65.155.202] has joined #lisp 08:35:55 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-166-247-216.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 08:35:55 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 08:36:34 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-36.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:41:52 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 08:42:38 -!- Radium_ [~rajesh.na@117.203.15.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:43:26 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:44:20 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.46.9.164] has joined #lisp 08:46:10 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.163.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:48:59 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-122-201.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:10 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:51:20 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-122-201.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:51:44 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 08:52:20 -!- mucker [~mucker@202.65.155.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:53:40 I was wrong yesterday, cl-store does not maintain single object identity, i have duplicated objs in the restored index and the list from which the index was created 08:54:13 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1419.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:59 only solution looks like, having a central id to obj based index and all other indexes mapping keys to ids which is used to lookup obj from the central index 08:55:19 bknr-datastore preserves object identity 08:55:37 -!- metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:56:41 i think its prevalence based (thats not bad) 08:57:00 but i dont remember the reasons now, but i had practical troubles working with it 08:57:01 it is not prevalence based, it just shares its ideas. 08:57:23 just thought i'd mention it. 08:57:32 -!- evenson [~evenson@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:57:46 from what i remember cl-store should preserve object identity, it uses hash anyway by default for cirtularity detection, so identity is cheap 08:57:46 evenson [~evenson@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 08:57:59 i think i would end up looking into it as rolling everything own my own seems more trouble than its worth 08:58:07 b_: or do you mean storing a tree, then restoring and comparing to tree still in memory? 08:58:10 it had some good pdfs doc s i think 08:58:40 these will not be EQ.. but object A with two refs will still be single object A2 with two refs in the restored tree, just A will not be EQ to A2 08:58:54 b_: i've recently gone over the manual and tutorial and they still are in good shape, mostly. 08:58:56 maxk-: i had bunch of lists and indexes created from those lists, i stored everything , shutdown lisp and restart 08:59:11 -!- evenson [~evenson@213.33.70.157] has quit [Client Quit] 08:59:12 then lists and index obj (not eq) 08:59:26 evenson [~evenson@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 09:00:01 thats weird, it was long time since I had used it, and it was the opposite for me.. I mean how could it save circular structures if it did not preserve identity 09:00:18 yes 09:00:27 i want to be wrong, maybe i have missed smthing 09:00:49 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 09:01:02 simply i did setf on some slots on list object and then looked up the same obj in the index 09:01:06 they had diff values 09:01:30 (after the restore) 09:01:50 before restore when everything created fresh in memory, they are same of course 09:04:17 ideally, i thought when it is restoring diff files, it will internally track obj identity some way, figure out it had already restored obj A and make the new location refer to old 09:05:35 Radium_ [~rajesh.na@117.203.15.157] has joined #lisp 09:05:55 mm maybe i need to define some generic equality function in clos for it to work right, (like in java) 09:07:45 b_: there's a CDR about it. 09:07:58 http://cdr.eurolisp.org/document/8/index.html 09:08:08 maxm: it might be resolving circular structures within the same disk file its reading, not diff files, I have stored index and list files separately 09:08:13 b_: my quick test seems shows it working http://paste.lisp.org/display/129612 09:09:12 b_: so if you can reduce it to a simple test case, I would submit it to cl-store author as a bug 09:09:41 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-86-234.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 09:10:17 the (eq * *) should have been (eq * **) but you can see its the same object by the address 09:13:12 i see 09:13:27 this case is fine as its single file reload 09:14:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:15:10 ticking [~janpaulbu@eduroam-pool3-178.wlan.uni-bremen.de] has joined #lisp 09:15:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:16:22 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:16:27 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 09:16:43 ah yea it wont preserve it across multiple file reloads, each file load/store basically a single session.. I see your problem now, you want to store EQ objects in multiple files.. 09:17:45 mel0on [~user@h-72-75.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 09:18:04 b_: I think cl-store has some kind of (with-something) macro, that wraps over multiple operations.. I had never used it, but I can imagine you can probably use it to preserve the identity hash it uses, across multiple files 09:18:38 b_: yup, with-serialization-unit 09:18:53 it has parameters for the identity hash to pass, so you can give it your own 09:20:09 hmm, so if i had stored my indexes ,lists etc in a big mother list to cl-store to single file 09:20:18 everything would have been fine 09:20:19 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:20:21 on restore 09:20:36 ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:20:43 or i try new suggestions :) 09:21:05 b_: yes, as long as stored structure has all the references.. Or you could have used: (defvar *my-identity-hash* (cl-store:create-serialization-hash)) 09:21:43 awesome, looking into this now! 09:21:48 b_: then (cl-store:with-serialization-unit (:store-hash *my-identity-hash*) write stuff) and you can do it as many times as you like 09:22:01 o yeah 09:22:06 then simularly restoring with the same restore hash, will restore across multiple files 09:22:20 !! 09:22:23 ok trying! 09:22:48 *maxm-* points out the benefits of reading documentation before playing with stuff :-) 09:23:13 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-93-79.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:23:36 udzinari [user@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3aab] has joined #lisp 09:23:51 hehe i glossed over it as it sounded complicated for my beginings 09:24:13 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.151.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:25:16 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@eduroam-pool3-178.wlan.uni-bremen.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 09:26:09 ticking [~janpaulbu@eduroam-pool3-178.wlan.uni-bremen.de] has joined #lisp 09:26:58 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@eduroam-pool3-178.wlan.uni-bremen.de] has quit [Client Quit] 09:29:20 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-102-111.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:31:41 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128036067.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 09:36:07 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:36:12 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.97.1] 09:37:39 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Quit: http://www.cyphase.com/] 09:38:45 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 09:40:30 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-102-111.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:13 Ugh. It seems you can't have multiple :depends-on clauses in a DEFSYSTEM. (At least with the slightly asdf version I'm using) 09:41:16 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 09:41:38 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:42:04 does depends-on accept a list then? 09:42:25 phadthai: only a list. 09:42:34 You cannot put an atom there. 09:42:49 ivan-kan` [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 09:43:59 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:44:26 -!- Radium_ [~rajesh.na@117.203.15.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:45:26 -!- b_ [~b@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:45:42 b_ [~b@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:45:58 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-102-111.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:47:14 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:47:56 Radium_ [~rajesh.na@117.203.15.157] has joined #lisp 09:49:55 -!- asvil 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[Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11:58 vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 10:12:36 Joreji [~thomas@69-106.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 10:13:53 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:15:09 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #lisp 10:16:06 harish [~harish@119.234.133.19] has joined #lisp 10:16:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:19:36 -!- Guest9400 [de837166@gateway/web/freenode/ip.222.131.113.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:20:32 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:20 Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 10:22:48 add^_ [~add^_^@m90-131-125-163.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:23:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-21.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:27:30 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.133.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:29:18 -!- b_ [~b@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:29:22 b_ [~b@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:34:10 hlavaty [~user@91-64-129-220-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:34:48 I implemented the simple Scheme like language interpretor from lisp in small pieces in common lisp.. a very enlightening experience I would say 10:36:23 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-izdtbycjqwypacox] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:37:39 mucker [~mucker@202.65.155.202] has joined #lisp 10:39:52 harish [~harish@155.69.194.35] has joined #lisp 10:40:11 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:40:28 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 10:40:41 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:40:58 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 10:45:14 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@90.165.165.246] has quit [] 10:45:19 abeaumont_ [~Alfredo@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 10:50:15 saage_ [~saage@187.52.210.118] has joined #lisp 10:51:58 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 10:52:57 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-awyefbazhixomduq] has joined #lisp 10:54:55 kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-pbwnnycnnweimeyy] has joined #lisp 10:55:50 Borbus: congratulations! 10:57:10 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:00:34 I'm really enjoying the book.. probably my favourite programming language book now 11:02:17 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@171.24.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:02:38 -!- harish [~harish@155.69.194.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:03:05 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:48 -!- gko [~gko@220.228.255.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:05:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:06:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:11:08 cl-store:with-serialization-unit works perfect 11:11:34 TimKack [~user@46.194.130.56] has joined #lisp 11:12:27 wow Borbus! 11:14:50 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:15:09 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 11:15:31 harish [~harish@119.234.133.19] has joined #lisp 11:17:31 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:24:54 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:27:03 Yuuhi [benni@p548398AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:59 -!- kdas_ is now known as kushal 11:29:04 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-pbwnnycnnweimeyy] has quit [Changing host] 11:29:04 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:29:41 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:32:09 -!- Joreji 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leaving] 11:45:10 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 11:46:12 Borbus: have you checked out PAIP by Norvig? 11:46:14 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 11:46:50 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@171.24.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 11:46:56 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-244-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:06 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176432531.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 11:49:25 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176432531.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 11:49:38 -!- irpanech0 [~user@24.68.147.165] has left #lisp 11:53:33 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-167-211.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:54:45 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 11:56:29 xyxu [~Adium@180.158.178.70] has joined #lisp 11:57:41 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 11:58:19 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:04 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 11:59:25 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@m842c36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:04:47 Is there something in ASDF that makes it only compile/load a file if it exists? 12:05:14 -!- tcr1 is now known as tcr 12:06:53 -!- TimKack` [~user@46.194.130.56] has quit [Quit: Another hotspot neede] 12:16:50 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-244-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 12:19:37 man, is there any way to say this => http://i.imgur.com/IlXCN.png in a shorter way? specifically the stepping starting value determination? 12:19:37 12:19:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:20:08 -!- mikaelj [~tic@c83-249-198-162.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:20:18 *maxm-* can't feel but think there is some clever Lisp thing that will do it more elegentaly, I have to stop and think for 5 seconds about that expression to verify what it does in my head 12:20:21 mikaelj [~tic@c83-249-198-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:20:53 two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:15 maxm-: (defun next-multiple (x base) (* base (ceiling x base))) ? 12:24:55 pkhuong: thanks, next/prev-multiple is a great name, did not made it a util coz all names I came up with were unwieldly. i'm uplifting most of my x-axis and y-axis common functionality into base-axis class for those interested 12:24:55 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:26:10 computer science has two hard problems, cache invalidation and function naming, (c) some famous (hopefully not dead yet) guy 12:26:24 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-46-19.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:26:29 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 12:28:59 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:30:51 -!- arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] 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[~paul0@189.115.62.71] has joined #lisp 13:36:22 cpc26 [~Adium@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 13:36:26 hitecnologys1 [~noname@94.137.0.4] has joined #lisp 13:36:29 teggi [~teggi@113.172.40.96] has joined #lisp 13:38:15 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-161-110.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:22 -!- hitecnologys [~noname@46.233.207.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:38:41 -!- Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:39:51 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 13:40:19 midly on topic: if you were looking for decent polynomial approximation of some functions, would you look for the simplest approximation that's within a tolerance range, or for the more accurate within a class of simple approximations? 13:40:21 Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:24 -!- Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:42:58 Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:03 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:39 -!- X99 [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:52 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:46:54 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 13:50:07 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-207-140.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:50:21 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 13:50:23 -!- abeaumont_ is now known as abeaumont 13:51:02 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:19 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 13:52:53 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-148-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:53 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-148-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:52:54 -!- gigamonkey_ is now known as gigamonkey 13:52:58 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-166-247-216.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:54:11 kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-130.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:56:15 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 13:56:16 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-148-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:24 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-148-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:13 pkhuong: I'm probably butting in where I don't know anything (altho I used fitting polynominals as benchmark for my evo/ga lib).. If you fitting real data, the simplest -> usually more general / correct then complicated 13:59:34 as if you go for more accurate, you can generally fit any data 13:59:49 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-122-226.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:28 ie some ppl looking at their mean square error approaching zero, get all excited, not realizing they had simply encoded the training data in the fitted formula itself 14:00:29 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:01:27 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 14:02:55 -!- DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@63-231-108-178.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:04:34 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-25-97.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:06:51 maxm-: it's fitting for numerics, not machine learning in this case (: 14:07:05 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:01 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has 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[cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 14:21:27 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-211-142.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:21:30 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-211.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:21:30 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: guyal] 14:21:50 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:24:19 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:22 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-awyefbazhixomduq] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:25:24 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 14:26:24 maxm: :( sorry, I dont seem to get it 14:26:26 http://paste.lisp.org/display/129618 14:26:54 before store, (eq (first l1a) (first l2a)) 14:26:58 after: nil 14:27:13 cl-store 14:29:21 -!- jiroukaja [~jiroukaja@softbank221094150218.bbtec.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:34 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:59 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:34:02 hmm I tried it and yes getting same result as you, this is kind of weird, as I would have expected it to work according to docs 14:34:19 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:34:47 it seems the culprit is that (defun get-restore-hash) does clrhash, which clears restore hash on each restore operation 14:35:11 this seems like a logical bug, if it does that, whats the point of passing the restore hash in with-serialization-unit 14:35:35 yes 14:36:20 i was trying stuff and once i thought i got it working 14:36:40 i stored the hashtable to disk itself using cl-store 14:36:45 and on restore used the same 14:36:57 then it had size 480kb 14:37:24 when i thought it was working but now its just 50 bytes 14:37:38 -!- mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:53 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 14:37:59 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:12 i have ~50k objects to store, total about 30MB 14:38:38 I can run your example correctly, if I make the following in cl-store circularities.lisp http://i.imgur.com/pYlib.png 14:38:38 14:39:07 replaced (clrhash *grouped-restore-hash*) with just *grouped-restore-hash* 14:39:49 but I'm not sure why it was originally doing it, you need to post to mailiing list or try to send email to author 14:39:51 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-dtsnhjbzmduxdsej] has joined #lisp 14:40:08 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 14:40:44 there seems to be no tests for with-serialization-unit it tests.lisp, other then very perfunctory one 14:41:15 so imho, just fix the bug, see if you can contact author, if not, take over the project, fix the bug and become new maintainter :-) 14:42:22 then profit. 14:42:30 oh my 14:42:45 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 14:42:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:46:16 yes, works! , will try report bug :) 14:47:28 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 14:47:39 -!- cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:52:40 n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@31.163.212.25] has joined #lisp 14:53:24 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-131-125-163.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 14:54:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:54:38 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:54:48 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:54:49 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.46.9.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:56:06 ccomendant [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ccomendant] has joined #lisp 14:59:11 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-130.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:02:17 Radium_ [~rajesh.na@2001:0:4137:9e76:24a1:1fe9:8a34:f062] has joined #lisp 15:02:59 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:04:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:06:30 -!- emma is now known as em 15:07:11 morthwylion [~merv@94.198.124.172] has joined #lisp 15:07:36 -!- morthwylion [~merv@94.198.124.172] has quit [Client Quit] 15:08:07 wow, i did a full run and now my store-hash is 32MB on disk 15:09:02 Does any good CL code for intereactive editing of S-Expressions exist (outside of Emacs and CLimacs) with a reasonably open liscence? 15:10:35 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:10:46 *maxm-* summons pjb 15:15:05 I think there was a paredit clone for vim 15:15:05 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-148-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 15:15:34 Ok, now I am failing during restore 15:15:38 0: [error printing frame] 15:15:38 1: [error printing frame] 15:15:39 2: (CL-STORE::RESTORE-TYPE-OBJECT #) 15:15:39 Locals: 15:15:39 SB-DEBUG::ARG-0 = : 15:15:40 3: (CL-STORE::HANDLE-NORMAL #) 15:15:50 b_: STOP! We have a pastebot for a reason. 15:16:15 sorry! 15:16:25 except our pastebot is slacking 15:16:30 which is besides the point 15:16:45 *what is a pastebot* 15:17:22 b_: You never paste long things in IRC, you use something like http://paste.lisp.org 15:18:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-243-153.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 15:18:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-243-153.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 15:18:30 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:18:56 oh ok, now i know 15:21:22 hmm, imho alexandra should have return-values as a shortcut for (return (values 15:22:16 as (return (values ..)) is most common in iterate and loop, when wanting to return more then one value. And eliminating 1 level out of the (finally (return (values a b c))) imho helps code readability 15:22:46 -!- nicdev_` is now known as nicdev_ 15:22:49 finally doesn't start with an open paren, does it? 15:23:02 does in iterate 15:23:08 ah, yes 15:23:13 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@84-236-86-100.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 15:23:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:23:31 maxm-: and then you decide to change RETURN into RETURN-FROM 15:23:33 kanru` [~user@61-228-146-139.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:39 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-dtsnhjbzmduxdsej] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:23:44 Kryztof: my example was for iterate, but applies to loop as well, ie (loop for i ... collect x into ret finally (return (values ret i))) 15:23:53 maxm-: you can eliminate several parens by using loop 15:24:01 will look better as (loop ... finally (return-values ret i)) 15:24:30 jdz: return-from-values :-) 15:25:46 maxm-: sounds fishy 15:26:23 but i'm not a big fun of introducing macrology for minimal (or no) gain 15:26:51 ZabaQ: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/sedit/index.html 15:26:58 jdz: I agree, but if someone does return-from they doing advanced stuff anyway, so it will be no problem for them to convert return-values to return-from name (values ...) 15:27:33 maxm-: i'd stop reading code on the first sight of return-values, too 15:27:37 jdz: can be said about all macrology, but honestly I don't remember last time I seen (return (values)) outoside of loop 15:28:09 pjp: Thx. :-) 15:28:23 -!- xyxu [~Adium@180.158.178.70] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:29:00 return-values-from 15:29:06 jdz: another advantage 15:29:10 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:29:13 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:29:31 -!- ccomendant [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ccomendant] has left #lisp 15:30:00 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-21.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:30:35 half of CL came from someone creating a utility macro then others using it.. if we take "not going to introduce unnecessary macrology" to its limit, you get scheme 15:31:27 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 15:34:35 wztian [~wztian@218.89.36.21] has joined #lisp 15:34:48 -!- vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: vervic] 15:35:01 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:35:46 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:36:02 -!- zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-163-13.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:36:17 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:19 some stats to support my case: grepping my quicklisp installed systems for '(return (values' => 301 occurrences, of those 110 are 'finally (return (values' 15:37:37 doesn't that exactly antisupport your case? 15:37:43 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:37:53 "(return (values" is not enough of a problem for anyone else to worry about it 15:38:04 -!- CrLF0710 [~user@114.96.65.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:40:02 well, I would consider 1/3 to be significant amount. Also from other 200 cases, quick glance shows around half of them are cut-n-paste in babel encoders, and another 30 or so are cut-n-paste in various swank-xxx.lisp backends 15:40:16 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:41:32 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-161-110.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:50 maxm-: you would have to count the ration of finally (return (values over finally (return. 15:41:57 1/3 might or might not be significant but what's the comparison? You're not comparing anything that supports your case 15:42:32 what you need to do is compare instances of "finally (return (values" with instances where the author has rewritten things to avoid writing "finally (return (values", to demonstrate that there is a need for a return-values macro 15:42:56 kilon [~kilon@178.128.19.128.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:43:06 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 15:43:18 Greetings lispers 15:43:52 -!- kilon [~kilon@178.128.19.128.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has left #lisp 15:44:51 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.40.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:56 tough crowd 15:45:36 Maybe old and grizzled is a better description. 15:46:06 -!- hitecnologys1 [~noname@94.137.0.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:46:38 *maxm-* makes revenge plans to find the most obscure macro in CL that even Xach haven't heard of, then ask for it to be included in alexandria finally unmasking the trick in a dramatic fashion 15:47:03 vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 15:47:47 maxm-: if you were writing a function in which you'd had 100 (return (values occurences, you could make a macrolet rv for it. 15:47:50 -!- vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has quit [Client Quit] 15:48:00 maxm-: but it'd be better style to make a higher level macrolet. 15:48:25 If you're writing a function with that many of anything, the function is probably too long. 15:48:59 Some rare functions have to be that long. 15:49:05 -!- wztian [~wztian@218.89.36.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:49:57 -!- kanru` [~user@61-228-146-139.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:51:43 True, hence "probably". 15:52:56 pjb: I don't have this pattern repeating in a single function, but throughout my code when I need to exit a loop and return multiple values from it. IMHO its the same level of utility as return vs return-from nil.. It makes code look better 15:52:57 -!- ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:53:31 maxm-: and that's why I guess personnal utility libraries are good. 15:55:25 RETURN should have been specified to take :FROM keyword parameter 15:57:19 (return :from here :outside there :values (list a b c)) ? 15:57:45 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:00 or (return (:from here :outside there) a b c) ? 15:59:46 (return ) == (return :from nil) 16:00:27 the implicit block name NIL would come from normal keyword parameter defaulting 16:00:58 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:02:04 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:19 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:26 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:03:23 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:03:46 the semantics of optional/keyword arguments with special forms somewhat hurts my brain 16:04:04 (let ((y :from)) (return y nil))? 16:05:21 how is that case handled in macros? 16:05:37 not very well 16:05:53 I mean, obviously the macro function gets y not :from 16:06:08 but there's worse with respect to keyword lambda list parameters 16:06:14 ask nikodemus next time he's around 16:06:48 I know it makes writing 100% correct compiler-macros a real PITA 16:07:19 -!- Radium_ [~rajesh.na@2001:0:4137:9e76:24a1:1fe9:8a34:f062] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:07:44 -!- arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:23 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 16:08:34 arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:06 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-quyvqainmvaogufa] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:28 Radium_ [~rajesh.na@117.203.15.157] has joined #lisp 16:09:41 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:14:32 mensch [~mensch@c-24-63-135-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:41 holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:32 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:37 [SLB] [~slabua@87.13.170.192] has joined #lisp 16:17:37 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@87.13.170.192] has quit [Changing host] 16:17:37 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 16:21:10 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:21:14 booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:15 yep, restore fails when we dont clear the two hashtables 16:22:38 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:23:03 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 16:23:21 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.246] has joined #lisp 16:24:00 fails in : restore-type-object in default-backend.lisp, somewhere in resolving-object macro whose code is beyond me 16:26:44 there is something: (defvar *need-to-fix*) in circularities.lisp thats in the macro also 16:26:58 i am giving up and trying mother list way for now (( 16:29:41 but maybe that would fail also, afterall, its just reading another file in the same process 16:30:44 I have got a object graph with many orders referring the same products, products are restored first, but it fails on the very first 16:31:01 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:33:58 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-198-135.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:35:06 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-117-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:56 hugod [~user@host213-123-202-151.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 16:37:25 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:40:01 -!- emit [~emit@unaffiliated/emit] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 16:40:20 b_: ok then, sorry have sent you on a wrong path.. I had never tried with-serialization-unit before, but had used single-file very extensively, and it always worked without any problems (ie saving and restoring large simulations, full of inter-connected references) 16:41:55 -!- mathrick__ is now known as mathrick 16:41:56 for what it worth, I had added return-values and return-values-from to my util lib.. /me is a sad panda to see such hostile reaction to what imho is very non-controversial suggestion 16:41:56 no..thank you as it seemed to work, i anyway don't have any pressing reason for having separate files. I just hope single list works now. 16:43:18 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:43:57 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:44:02 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-cawxppedeoxzrtzb] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:44:20 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:44:37 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:46:45 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:46:46 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:40 Shaftoe [~memet@modemcable037.54-22-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:55:07 anyone know anything about quick lisp not loading rfc2388 ? 16:55:32 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 16:56:25 Shaftoe: works here. Do you have a very recent distribution? Xach just updated it with a non-broken one (AWS issues) 16:56:43 of quicklisp? 16:56:44 ? 16:56:48 yes 16:56:50 I just installed it today on a new machine 16:57:04 ran (ql:quickload "hunchentoot") and it chokes on rfc2388 16:57:22 how can i cycle through the previously evaluated expressions in the repl? i expect up arrow like most clis, but no 16:57:55 adnap: + ? 16:57:58 + ++ +++ 16:58:02 adnap: M-n/M-p. 16:58:06 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:58:17 adnap: up arrow will move the point in the buffer, like most editors ;) 16:58:19 -!- xan_ [~xan@pc1.sakuravod-unet.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:59:03 -!- Sgeo is now known as Clickme 16:59:35 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 16:59:51 so no dice? 16:59:55 am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 17:00:18 Shaftoe: It works here, but I haven't updated. 17:00:35 okay, M-n/M-p works. + seems to evaluate the last expressions 17:00:38 ah. maybe it's the latest version then 17:01:11 ah. ok. did a wipe out of quicklisp and redownloaded just now and it works 17:01:17 thanks pkhuong 17:01:27 + doesn't print the last expression at the prompt 17:01:37 + is the equivalent of * 17:01:48 i need to edit the previous expression; M-n/M-p is what i need 17:01:49 -!- hugod [~user@host213-123-202-151.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:01:50 it's not what you were asking for though. pkhuong's answer is better 17:02:00 aye 17:02:39 i have paredit and it is really annoying. if i type 17:02:46 -!- Shaftoe [~memet@modemcable037.54-22-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 17:03:27 mother lisp works 17:03:33 mother list* 17:03:33 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:46 "(lambda (x) (* x 2))" and then i go to the beginning of the expression to add "((lambda (x) (* x 2) 5)", paredit makes ()(lambda (x) (* x 2) and it wont let me delete ')' 17:03:58 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:04:12 adnap: right, the point of paredit is to work on expressions, not characters. 17:04:44 you should use M-( 17:05:02 adnap: M- ( will swallow num expressions 17:05:06 or rather C-M-( 17:05:18 damn 17:05:23 i never know keybindings 17:05:30 they are confusing! 17:05:42 i can type it, but i don't know what are they 17:05:43 adnap: you just learn the ones you do use. 17:05:55 it's M-( indeed 17:06:32 stassats: M-( works, but how do i type the ')'? 17:06:40 you don't 17:07:12 stassats: i am trying to make the expression "((lambda (x) (* x 2) 5)" from (lambda (x) (* x 2)) 17:07:12 pnq [~nick@ACA233DF.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:18 lazyfingers [~a@78.84.172.207] has joined #lisp 17:07:55 M-( C-M-f 5 17:08:10 dlowe: that doesn't work for me 17:09:46 stassats: that works. it is funky 17:10:05 funky? 17:10:15 adnap: using paredit? 17:10:27 that i have to use all these commands just to enclose something with () 17:10:37 well, you don't *have* to use it 17:10:39 what 17:10:46 adnap: it's one command to enclose... 17:11:16 pkhuong: "M-( C-M-f 17:11:30 adnap: M-( wraps. C-M-f moves 1 sexp forward. 17:12:02 how would you do it? ( right-arrow right-arrow right-arrow right-arrow right-arrow right-arrow right-arrow right-arrow right-arrow 5 ) ? 17:12:07 |SLB| [~slabua@host84-162-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:12:21 M-( is the paredit-enhanced version of (. C-M-f is the paredit-enhanced version of M-f (move 1 character forward). 17:12:37 pkhuong: okay 17:12:56 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:04 how do you delete a set of ()? 17:13:07 C-M-f is present without paredit as wel 17:13:09 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 17:13:15 adnap: backspace 17:14:28 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:15:18 stassats: i expect backspace on ((lambda (x) (* x 2)) to make (lambda (x) (* x 2)), but it just moves the cursor left 17:15:29 whoops... 17:15:37 so, it's not just () 17:15:40 losing track of parens 17:16:00 stassats: i described what i wanted poorly 17:16:02 (|(lambda (x) (* x 2))) M-r will do 17:17:11 | indicating where the cursor is? 17:17:21 yes 17:17:33 i get a message "previous element matching (regexp):" 17:18:10 adnap: you have enabled paredit at the REPL? 17:18:43 i don't use paredit at the repl, i write all my code in files 17:18:56 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:19:32 pkhuong: i'm not certain. i have "(autoload 'paredit-mode "paredit"..." in my .emacs 17:20:07 paredit doesn't play well with slime repl 17:20:14 pkhuong: i think i do though, given the way ( are closed as a type 17:20:15 -!- Clickme is now known as Sgeo 17:20:55 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:21:13 for example, it will clutch with printed output 17:21:17 and make M-p not work 17:21:30 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:09 nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-219-147-87.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:22:34 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 17:23:01 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.156] has joined #lisp 17:23:04 also, how do i wipe out a whole expression at the repl? 17:23:15 kushal [~kdas@114.143.163.106] has joined #lisp 17:23:28 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.163.106] has quit [Changing host] 17:23:28 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:24:01 adnap: C-a C-k 17:24:18 pjb: not going to cut it 17:24:38 -!- lopin [~pierre_lo@41.248.220.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:24:39 it works 17:24:44 C-c C-u will kill all the text before the cursor 17:24:50 adnap: because you only have one line 17:25:08 i actually knew C-a C-k. that is a emacs command 17:25:15 i didn't think to use it at the repl 17:26:10 there is also C-M-k bound to kill-sexp 17:26:28 oh no 17:26:35 stassats: that works also if i do C-e first 17:26:45 i bound C-c C-u to slime-repl-delete-current-input 17:26:48 and it works everywhere 17:26:49 stassats: and it's easy to remember, because C-u does the same thing on the cli 17:26:51 -!- Radium_ [~rajesh.na@117.203.15.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:26:52 One could also bind C-M-k to (progn (backward-sexp) (kill-sexp)). 17:27:14 just do (define-key slime-repl-mode-map "\C-c\C-u" 'slime-repl-delete-current-input) 17:27:48 i think i am just going to forget half of this stuff. i just started using emacs when i started learning lisp perhaps a week ago 17:27:56 pjb: you mean backward-kill-sexp? 17:28:03 Yes. 17:28:21 it is sort of frustrating learning emacs at the same time, 'cause mostly i just want emacs to gtf out of the way 17:28:53 adnap: you can use arrow keys, the mouse and just type, if you wish. 17:29:00 adnap: write the keybindings you learned into a file 17:29:06 with short descriptions 17:29:10 and consult it from time to time 17:29:14 Isn't backwards-kill-sexp C-M-backspace? 17:29:18 stassats: good idea 17:29:55 nyef: nope 17:30:01 nyef: ESC C-backspace 17:30:14 And ESC is equivalent to M- 17:30:16 perhaps there is a log of this channel. if not, i can start logging it 17:30:19 nyef: nope 17:30:46 Oh? 17:30:57 So what's M-C-backspace? 17:31:01 minion: logs 17:31:01 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 17:31:02 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@84-236-86-100.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:12 nyef: is undefined 17:31:23 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:31:27 minion: ty 17:31:29 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``ty''. 17:31:34 *adnap* laughs 17:31:37 pkhuong: ty 17:31:39 minion: thank you 17:31:39 no problem 17:31:57 the proper language is preferred here 17:32:11 minion: (+ 2 3) 17:32:11 watch out, you'll make krystof angry 17:32:24 > (+ 2 3) 17:32:33 => 5 17:32:33 no lispbot? :p 17:32:44 *adnap* laughs 17:32:44 adnap: not on #lisp 17:33:29 Evalbots are bad for signal/noise ratio. 17:33:31 Sometimes on #lispbot 17:33:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-65-223.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 17:33:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-65-223.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 17:33:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:34:10 nyef: #haskell has lambdabot, and i think works well within the channel. i can learn from what other people are evaluating 17:34:34 #scheme has a scheme bot 17:35:32 Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.7.249] has joined #lisp 17:35:55 there's no discussion on whether an eval bot will be allowed here, because it won't 17:35:59 adnap: the ruling party is against evalbots on #lisp. 17:36:10 17:36:41 mhm 17:39:16 lindes [~user@2a02:8109:80c0:2f:d69a:20ff:fe75:c48b] has joined #lisp 17:39:21 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 17:41:04 -!- lindes [~user@2a02:8109:80c0:2f:d69a:20ff:fe75:c48b] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:30 enupten [~neptune@117.192.70.137] has joined #lisp 17:44:45 nha [~prefect@g230119200.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:45:17 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:45:38 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 17:46:53 -!- |SLB| is now known as [SLB] 17:46:55 -!- zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-jjaxoeilcqbynnwg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:58 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host84-162-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 17:46:58 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 17:50:44 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@dhcp-140-247-179-53.fas.harvard.edu] has joined #lisp 17:52:49 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:53:53 maxm-: You're fixating on the wrong problem. If we had a suitably powerful mapping function (built on top of a powerful iterators suite), loop finally return values would basically never arise. 17:54:05 adnap: someone has built such a bot though. i'm sure you can convince him to run it in another channel. perhaps even in #lispcafe (but maybe not there either) 17:54:33 know what, i have a bot, it's in *slime-repl sbcl* 17:55:07 adnap: in haskell people tend to have little, short problems. in #lisp the questions are often more complex and the answers are thus somewhat bigger. that makes it less suitable for an eval bot. i think i blame haskell's odd syntax for the use of the lambdabot :) 17:55:19 adnap: not saying that i hate haskell though 17:55:50 madnificent: it's #lisp, I don't think anyone would begrudge you if you did 17:55:53 it's the proof that haskell can't tackle big problems 17:56:12 feel free to make up #lispbot if you want 17:56:23 stassats: you know those are separate concepts :) 17:56:31 (better-than-p 'haskell 'lisp) => nil 17:56:33 j_king: no, but adnap may misunderstand me. 17:56:47 j_king: that errors out here... 17:56:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:03 j_king: and yes, i kid 17:57:18 madnificent: it's cool, i got it. ;) 17:57:26 stassats: It already does. 17:57:41 nikodemus: i don't want an evaluation bot btw, we have lisppaste and it works just fine for learning from other people's code. 17:57:48 Not as big as CL :] 17:57:49 adnap: ^ that may help you 17:59:03 madnificent: me neither -- i'm just saying that people who want one can have one, but i would hate to see one here. i'm already ignoring #lisp half the time when i'm here because the signal/noise ratio isn't worth it 17:59:40 stassats: can I seen stuff to your *slime-repl sbcl* bot? 17:59:48 seen/send 18:00:08 Guthur: yes, you need a special emacs mode for that 18:00:33 butterfly might work actually, hehe 18:00:48 you can get it from quicklisp, called slime, install it, and you'll be able to use my *slime-repl sbcl* bot 18:00:49 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:01:46 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-179-209-105.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:02:00 *Guthur* embarrassingly hasn't install CL yet after a reinstall 18:02:05 *Guthur* hangs head in shame 18:02:31 Guthur: Oh no! You'll have to spend a whole 2 minutes reinstalling everything! I feel for you. ;P 18:02:44 adnap: Take a look at existing common lisp code (such as alexandria, cl-ppcre, quicklisp) 18:03:41 Hexstream: might take a little longer, my internet is being slow 18:04:00 put your lisp into the clode 18:04:02 cloud 18:04:19 nikodemus: increasing the signal: having something similar to interrupt-thread in madeira would be welcome (probably is there already). 18:04:37 What do you want to use interrupt-thread for? 18:04:44 Why is bordeaux-threads not a better place? 18:05:20 doesn't bt already have it? 18:05:51 isn't madeira going to be somewhat of a replacement for bordeax-threads? 18:05:55 although the question stands, interrupt-thread is rarely a good idea, especially if foreign code is involved 18:06:00 s/bordeax/bordeaux/ 18:06:00 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 18:06:37 stassats: i want to be able to pause certain threads, interrupt-thread could help with that. 18:07:00 You want to pause a thread that's holding on a lock? 18:07:18 *that might be holding on a lock 18:07:21 tcr: no, but i feel like you're going to tell me something i want to know now. 18:08:05 all you need to know is that interrupting is not safe 18:08:18 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 18:08:31 When using interrupt-thread your mental model should be akin to that it might possibly interrupt a thread between any two machine instructions 18:08:54 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:09:04 madnificent: interrupt-thread definitely will not be in madeira 18:09:06 tcr: i can ascertain that it doesn't contain any locks. but i can pause and resume later on, no? 18:09:20 Use mailboxes and and a pause message instead 18:09:33 When using interrupt-thread, your mental model should be "I am doing something stupidly dangerous". 18:09:36 tcr: you need to listen to a mailbox 18:10:02 madnificent: http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/bachelor-thesis.pdf might be interesting to you 18:10:13 nikodemus: anything else that may pause a thread's execution without the thread specifying places where it might stop? 18:10:13 madnificent: if you're using interrupt-thread, you cannot make your code safe unless you're aware of insanely low-level implementation specific details 18:10:18 no 18:10:28 no asynch interrupts in madeira 18:10:49 GC without safepoints could pause a thread's execution... 18:11:35 madnificent: You *want* to specify the places it might stop 18:11:44 madnificent: Read that bachelor thesis. It's apropos. 18:11:45 tcr: no, it's the wrong level of abstraction 18:11:50 madnificent: imho give it up, #lispcafe is pining for the fjords :-) I gave it a week and no one said anything 18:12:28 so we the jolly people have to suffer under the merciless dictature of the pethantic and grumpy :-) 18:12:29 probably #lisppub will have a better chance 18:12:33 maxm-: it's silent 18:12:38 Choose your abstractions such that it can be founded on a sound implementation 18:12:51 tcr: fetched it btw, but can't read it in 5 seconds 18:12:58 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:13:51 i don't immediately see how pausing some of the threads i made manually will break the application. will (interrupt-thread some-thread (lambda () (sleep 10)) break the thread? 18:13:59 madnificent: asynch interrupts are insanely hard to use even remotely safely. they don't compose. they force hard-to-understand re-entrancy requirements. they cause hard to debug heisenbugs -- threading issues have /nothing/ on interrupt handling bugs, unless you're talking about thread/interrupt interactions, in which case you're deep into "i wish i was gabor and could think about this without losing my mind" land 18:15:00 what i'm actually trying to do is pause some background computations in certain times. 18:15:15 why? 18:15:17 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:16:39 when a request comes in with a higher priority, a computation (which could take hours) should suspend so the new incoming request doesn't get hindered (which also uses all cores). 18:17:34 lony [~lony@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:17:39 that might be useful for process migration 18:18:11 should you not use OS processes an let the scheduler in OS do the leg work 18:18:14 -!- lony [~lony@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 18:18:19 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.49.29] has joined #lisp 18:18:43 dekuked [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:44 madnificent: you should synchronize your background calculation 18:18:55 madnificent: just check for suspension once in a while. 18:19:10 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@128-142-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:22 -!- evenson is now known as easy27182817 18:19:46 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-209-105.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:06 H4ns: but that means i need to incorporate it manually in the algorithms. it means that when the long computation reaches a long loop, i'll have to specify there "oh, overy 1000 loops you should check if you might need to suspend." that sounds really messy. 18:20:25 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:20:51 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:21:14 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 18:21:44 fwiw: there's not just one algorithm that may take a long time to finish. i wouldn't mind as much if that were the case. 18:21:54 more messy than interrupts? 18:22:34 madnificent: from what you describe I would use something like ZeroMQ and multiple processes and process priority 18:22:50 have you played with scheduler priorities? 18:22:50 simple and easy to reason about 18:23:09 stassats: ideally, i'd just stop the computation for a specific thread. 18:23:33 write a compiler which include stopping points into the code 18:23:45 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@128-142-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:23:55 Guthur: i don't want multiple lisp images, the operations use the same data to read from and there's not enough memory to start multiple lisp processes for that. 18:24:20 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:24:38 madnificent: interrupting threads is going to give you oodles upon oodles of hard to reproduce bugs. Any alternative is less messy, due to the fact that it actually has a chance of being correct 18:25:01 madnificent: SBCL has some mechanism to minimize memory footprint, iirc 18:25:05 jasom: i doubt it would be less messy, but it'll probably work (if i hear correctly) 18:25:07 they can share some common stuiff 18:25:39 Guthur: no, the issue is the few GB of datastructures in memory, not the data which the second SBCL instance would require. 18:25:57 snearch [~snearch@f053009212.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:26:07 regarding interruptible execution, would it work to use CPS and schedule continuations into threads? 18:26:24 BeWhy [~chatzilla@c-76-124-138-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:27 az [~ans@jb.znaider.de] has joined #lisp 18:26:33 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 18:28:12 p_l: wouldn't that still require you to specify where the breakpoints are? you just cover them up because of the CPS. 18:28:33 madnificent: yeah, but I was thinking of that for a different use-case 18:29:38 it would work though. not quite sure what the overhead would be (and i'm a bit affraid of that). it also kind-of locks you in a certain programming paradigm, which may not always be the best fit. 18:31:12 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:31:47 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:32:51 ebw```` [~user@krlh-5f725c5d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:21 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.192.70.137] has quit [Quit: quitting...] 18:34:45 Shaftoe [~memet@modemcable037.54-22-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:34:45 -!- Shaftoe [~memet@modemcable037.54-22-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 18:36:38 -!- ebw``` [~user@krlh-4d034a94.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:37:20 madnificent: it really sounds like a thread-library that strictly enforced priorities would do what you want; I don't think there is a way to get linux native threads to do that though without modifying the kernel 18:37:44 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 18:38:24 jasom: and even then, that interface should be published to the lisp side. 18:38:51 is there no way to set priorities in bordeaux threads? 18:39:09 *madnificent* doesn't think so, doublechecks 18:39:25 C-f "priority" didn't find anything 18:39:49 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:40:38 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053009212.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:41:29 jasom: api doesn't contain anything of the likes either. (does include #'interrupt-thread) 18:43:12 yeah, some way to communicate to the bg thread it should sleep is probably all that's left 18:43:39 and polling in your long-running loops is the easiest way to do that 18:44:03 madnificent: not way of decomposing the long running thread into numerous individual tasks? 18:44:37 jasom: and that's the crap about it. much of it is heuristic optimization, so it's not certain that a specific part of it will take a long time. 18:44:38 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:44:53 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:20 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:45:24 Guthur: it's a cross-cutting concern. it's probably possible to figure out where to best place the pauzes though. 18:45:53 madnificent: if you use a lockless technique for communication then you can at least make polling fast 18:46:31 -!- easy27182817 [~evenson@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:42 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:46:56 polling doesn't have to be fast, just not very frequent 18:47:03 ez2718 [~evenson@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 18:47:42 stassats: small tasks may come round a lot and they make take just 50 or 100 ms so polling should be fairly frequent. 18:47:42 what about just calling sched_setparam 18:48:55 jasom: i wonder if i can make locking cheap. the standard doesn't say what can break when talking about threads. i wonder if i can do (eq locked-p :locked) and be sure that it doesn't crash when i'm executing this and --at the same time-- someone is setting locked-p to nil. it could be fair if the result came in a tick too late. 18:49:16 i'd still be including something like (maybe-wait) in a lot of portions of the code, not exactly pretty. 18:49:32 snearch [~snearch@f053009212.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:51:18 actually if you don't mind losing portability IIRC NPTL lets you nice threads differently which is a violation of POSIX 18:52:03 jasom: i don't know what it would do in SBCL either, and it seems like it's something that's hard to write a test-case for. 18:52:39 zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-xulqhniddionsyrh] has joined #lisp 18:52:58 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 18:52:58 if you can know your threads are backed by pthreads, you can sb-posix to set their realtime scheduling priority, which is required to be thread-specific in POSIX (and linux does follow that) 18:53:13 Guthur` [~user@212.183.128.20] has joined #lisp 18:54:15 jasom: hmmm, so i could basically renice them? 18:54:45 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:55:04 well "nice" is supposed to be at the process granularity, (but currently isn't in Linux, and you probably don't want to bet they won't fix that in the future) 18:55:19 but see "man sched_setscheduler" 18:56:13 those parameters are distinct for each thread 18:56:35 ebw````` [~user@krlh-5f725c5d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:17 jasom: would you be so nice to hold virtually hold my hand while i try this out in a few months? calling non-lisp things from inside lisp is out of my comfort-zone so i'm not sure how to debug. but SCHED_IDLE is as good as it'll get 18:57:27 Guthur`` [~user@212.183.128.46] has joined #lisp 18:57:49 then it's time to figure things out 18:57:58 -!- ebw```` [~user@krlh-5f725c5d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:58:16 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:58:39 -!- Guthur` [~user@212.183.128.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:59:15 madnificent: if you use SCHED_IDLE you will see a big drop in throughput most likely FYI, if you care about performance of the background tasks then you'll probably want the polling solution 18:59:45 as far as holding your hand: I hang out here. I also have a job and 3 kids though, so my availability may vary 19:02:04 jasom: perhaps not. maybe i can combine this with discovering that urgent requests come round. i'm fairly certain that there's some statistically relevant way for me to figure out when urgent requests are coming in. i think they'll arrive in batches. so i can use SCHED_IDLE if the urgent requests are coming in and use SCHED_BATCH when they're not coming in. could be quite performant (and it's separate from the other cod 19:02:05 like) 19:02:30 prxq: I have ordered PAIP, I had planned to read it first but things turned up out of order 19:08:07 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:08:32 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195-167-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:38 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:10:00 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 19:12:35 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 19:14:21 -!- Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:27 Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:30 -!- Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:16:52 SplinterofChaos [~splintero@cblmdm24-52-84-142.buckeyecom.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:03 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.96.76] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 19:17:49 Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:37 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA233DF.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:19:55 madnificent: here's doing it in C: http://paste.lisp.org/+2S0Q 19:20:34 if you run that and look at top, you will see that one thread gets starved out by the rest. If you have more than 11 cores you'll need to up NUM_THREADS 19:22:20 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:49 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.214.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:23:51 pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:02 -!- pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:08 pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:26:11 -!- YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:36 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:28:50 -!- pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:06 pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:29:20 YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has joined #lisp 19:30:52 tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.163.219] has joined #lisp 19:31:24 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 19:34:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:36:49 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:37:21 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 19:43:14 jasom: thanks. but i'm mostly uncertain about how to talk to C from lisp. i think i could've done it in C with some searching as well (at least, the sched_setscheduler was clear to me, so i doubt i would've ran into other issues), it's talking from SBCL to C libraris that i'm not sure about. though i'm not at all seasoned in C either. i'll probably figure it out when i need it though (and thanks for the example) 19:43:35 through FFI, naturally 19:44:13 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:44:50 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:46:36 -!- fooc [foocraft@ibawizard.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:47:55 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:49:33 Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:00 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p548398AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:56:16 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-122-201.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:50 -!- pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:45 edgar-rft [~me@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:02:26 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:02:34 -!- arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:07 stassats: you're welcome to resurrect the CMUCL branch that assembled syscalls directly. 20:03:10 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@5356280E.cm-6-7a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:03:13 arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:04:24 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@5356280E.cm-6-7a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 20:05:05 gendl [~dcooper8@5356280E.cm-6-7a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:08:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:09:05 Paulzilla [~chatzilla@ool-44c6daa0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:21 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-21.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:10:45 Yuuhi [benni@p548398AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:45 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:51 Heh. I looked at doing syscalls direct from SBCL at one point. 20:17:02 I've still got my notes somewhere, but no working code. 20:18:33 don't think it would be such a good idea on linux. glibc and the kernel are kind of tightly bound. gettimeofday is very "special" (shared kernel/userspace page + rdtsc), for instance. 20:19:57 And not much point doing it anywhere else, unless you REALLY need to shave a few microseconds off of each syscall. 20:20:00 the first step towards lisp-on-linux 20:20:01 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:20:14 lisp, the kernel, and nothing else 20:20:52 stassats: I'd rather have lisp on xen, frankly. 20:22:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:22:27 pkhuong: the old entry point for gettimeofday is still supported, it's just that there's an additional faster one 20:22:55 fe[nl]ix: right, but how well-tested is it? How about other syscalls that are getting mangled? Will the slow path continue being as well-tested and supported? 20:23:58 I'm a strong fan of behaving as much like a regular C program as possible, lest we tickle some bug and be left wondering on which end the blame lies. 20:25:26 -!- sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:25:38 sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has joined #lisp 20:27:09 pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:28:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-21.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:29:09 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:52 I see no reason to suppose the contrary, since many(redhat-like distros) use newer kernels with very old userland 20:30:07 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:30:31 vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 20:32:03 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-178.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:19 pkhuong: and given that the code path using glibc functions will still exist for other OSes, there's no reason to worry about something like this. it can be optional 20:32:37 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:32:58 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:33:01 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 20:34:48 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 20:35:02 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:35:17 pnq [~nick@ACA27813.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:36:55 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:32 -!- arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:55 -!- Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:41 arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:40:44 pkhuong: would xen absolve this problems? 20:40:52 Hey, I'm working on the travelling salesman problem in common lisp for fun. I have a city class and a function to find the distance between two cities. 20:41:07 http://paste.lisp.org/display/129628 20:41:13 -!- harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:41:29 nyef: actually it's not glibc that is tightly tied anymore, afaik 20:41:36 Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:41 I'm fairly new to common lisp, and I want my code to be as idiomatic as possible so that I don't learn bad habits. 20:41:55 nyef: there's a virtual shared object involved 20:42:03 -!- schmx [~marcus@c83-254-190-169.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:42:08 is there anything that stands out in that block of code that should be reworked? 20:42:14 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:42:16 I tried to keep it as readable as possible. 20:42:29 stassats: it'd be "interesting", and I kind of like the PDOS's exokernel idea. 20:43:04 djanatyn: TSP traditionally runs on graphs, so a distance measured according to edges would be better 20:43:18 p_l: metric TSP are very common and an interesting object of study as well. 20:43:27 pkhuong: hmm.. didn't know 20:43:31 djanatyn: i'd either use a class/structure for coordinates or at least define X and Y functions instead of using CAR and CADR 20:43:33 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:43:59 -!- Paulzilla [~chatzilla@ool-44c6daa0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:24 djanatyn: I'd wrap the construction of city instances in a function if you really want to sanity check the name/position slots. I'm also not a fan of the class-slot naming scheme; it doesn't always work nicely with subclassinc. 20:44:25 that sounds like a good idea. thanks! 20:44:26 p_l: Yeah, that's one of the bits in my notes, the existence of the vDSO. 20:44:28 *subclassing. 20:44:44 and use "name" and "position" for accessors 20:44:49 and :position, not :pos 20:45:01 stassats: cl:position clashes. 20:45:17 pkhuong: shadow it 20:45:31 or use coordinates instead 20:45:41 djanatyn: using complexes for 2d points is a semi-common hack. In either case, (square (abs x)) is redundant. 20:45:42 would I define X and Y functions as generic methods or just regular functions? 20:45:53 nyef: afaik glibc wasn't in sync with kernel for quite long time now, and there's a lot of useless conversion going on 20:46:11 djanatyn: regular functions 20:46:18 or should I have the two axes in seperate slots? 20:46:38 you can have them in a separate object 20:47:26 so each city object has a coordinate or position object associated with it? 20:47:49 (deflcass point () ((x ...) (y ...))) 20:48:43 p_l: ah yeah, the vDSO proved to be quite interesting when I tried to trace JIT x86 machine code :) 20:50:34 -!- Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:52:54 -!- arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:58 Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:02 -!- Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:53:17 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:53:33 Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:35 -!- Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:53:48 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195-167-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:53:56 nyef: also, iirc, unistd.h and other syscall headers are now separated from glibc 20:55:38 Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:39 -!- Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:55:47 arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:56:25 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 20:57:31 Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:33 if I wanted to use a library I got via git, how do I load it in the projects asd? fullpath? the swatchblade tutorial only deals with stuff acquired via ql 21:01:54 dekuked: copy the directory in quicklisp/local-projects/ 21:02:07 pkhuong: thanks! 21:02:27 -!- zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-xulqhniddionsyrh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:03 -!- mrbrown [~andy@82-196-173-37.bb.systeamnat.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:07:08 -!- pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:08:16 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:08:35 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 21:08:54 -!- vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: vervic] 21:11:04 -!- b_ [~b@cpc3-acto3-2-0-cust505.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:11:20 in slime, is there a way to find out more about what sbcl version you are connected to? 21:11:29 clhs l-i-v 21:11:29 lisp-implementation-version: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_lisp_i.htm 21:11:45 -!- two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:12:46 is there a way of querying more than that? it just says "sbcl" and I'd like to know the version as well 21:13:11 sorry, just saw (lisp-implementation-version) 21:14:10 what does "fontifying *slime-completions* ......" do? 21:14:50 it takes about 3 seconds for compiling a form which itself only takes 0.06 secs to compile... 21:14:58 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.49.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:15:39 gendl: some emacs logging thing. (setq font-lock-verbose nil) should fix it. 21:15:58 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-198-135.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:17:19 pkhuong: perfect, thank you! 21:17:57 i should totally write a slime-tip about it 21:18:35 Add it to the manual as a FAQ? 21:19:02 nobody reads the manual 21:19:09 hehe I was just thinking that 21:20:10 -!- nha [~prefect@g230119200.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:20:21 zophy [~zophy__@24.220.134.203] has joined #lisp 21:20:31 a manual FAQ certainly won't hurt. 21:20:37 also one of those daily Slime Tips 21:20:41 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.46] has joined #lisp 21:20:50 "daily" 21:21:01 didn't they used to be daily? 21:21:08 "Lisp TIps" and "Slime Tips" 21:21:10 for several days 21:21:13 stassats: I think the use is more in having a canonical place that people can refer to. (And to smack the manual around people's head more often) 21:21:28 they were showing up on Planet Lisp weren't they? 21:21:46 tcr: alright, you do the manual bit, i'll do the tips bit 21:21:52 gendl: they are 21:22:06 oh they still are, just not quite "daily" anymore eh? 21:22:59 -!- Guthur`` [~user@212.183.128.46] has left #lisp 21:23:05 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:11 gendl: If you are new to slime, http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/talks/slime-talk-2008.pdf and http://trittweiler.blogspot.com might reveal one or two tidbits you might not know about slime yet 21:24:56 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 21:25:17 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.46] has joined #lisp 21:25:49 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA27813.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:26:13 tcr: got it, thank you. 21:26:25 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:26:59 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:27:45 I know C-c C-c compiles the method that my key is ending at, but how do I evaluate it in slime? C-M-x seems to be what I want going bythe docs, but it doesn't seem to work. 21:29:02 dekuked: to evaluate a form when the emacs point is after the closing paren: C-x C-e 21:30:10 -!- zophy [~zophy__@24.220.134.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:43 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:31:39 gendl: thank you! 21:31:59 also, where does format t supposed to go? I noticed that it isn't printed out in slime 21:32:29 it is  are you trying to print from within a different thread? 21:33:54 -!- n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@31.163.212.25] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:34:04 tcr: if you are talking to me, I don't know. 21:34:29 I do not know either. 21:34:33 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 21:34:47 is there an easy way to find out? 21:34:55 We might help you further if you tell what you are doing 21:35:17 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.163.219] has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 21:36:10 nha [~prefect@g225147092.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:36:51 tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.163.219] has joined #lisp 21:37:19 https://gist.github.com/2777986 21:38:14 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-219-147-87.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:38:50 I don't know conserv. You are then trying to invoke (test) from the REPL? 21:38:57 What implementation are you using? 21:39:04 yep 21:39:08 Does the output show up in the *inferior-lisp* buffer? 21:39:26 https://github.com/sykopomp/conserv 21:39:31 hugod [~user@host213-123-202-151.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 21:40:38 nope, doesn't show up in the *inferior-lisp" buffer 21:41:03 although, going by *slime-events* I'm indeed evaluating it 21:41:15 I can see the socket registering, but no "hello" 21:42:14 if you remove the conserv lines, does it work? 21:42:53 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:42:57 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@5356280E.cm-6-7a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 21:42:58 Is there some thread-safe queue / message passing / whatever library that people like (and ideally is in QL)? 21:43:09 tcr: nope 21:43:30 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:31 nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-219-197-181.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:43:35 sellout: ZMQ, not sure on the like part 21:46:16 so this should print out somewhere right?: https://gist.github.com/2778021 21:46:48 sellout: sb-concurrency:mailbox 21:47:10 Guther: That seemed overly complex for my needs. 21:47:15 dekuked: uhh, you're not really supposed to use register-socket :S 21:47:16 dekuked: Can you restart your lisp, and try the same? And what implementation are you using? 21:47:48 sellout: ZeroMQ in general or the binding? 21:48:17 tcr: That would be great, but I'm not on SBCL  I'm on CCL, which doesn't have mailboxes. 21:48:18 if you don't mind SBCL only tcr suggestion is good 21:48:26 Guthur: ZeroMQ in general. 21:48:37 sellout: sykopomp wrote chanl couple of years ago 21:48:59 sellout: did you check the ZGuide it's quite good at explaining the common patterns 21:49:04 tcr: Ah, I saw ChanL  sykopomp: sound reasonable? 21:49:11 Guthur: I will now. 21:49:29 I don't wish my code on anyone anymore, but a few people use chanl at this point. Maybe worth a shot. 21:49:36 Guthur: do zmq inproc:// connections play nicely with sbcl threads? 21:50:00 Guthur: or zmq at all for that matter; in other languages zmq doesn't always play nicely with threads 21:50:03 sykopomp: what should I be using instead? 21:50:03 sellout: http://zguide.zeromq.org/page:all 21:50:38 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-219-197-181.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:50:54 jasom: the only issue I have ever come across was signals and SBCL, I'm trying to remember the details now 21:51:42 jasom: but in general it seemed sound I and some others here have used it quite a bit 21:51:48 sshirokov uses it 21:52:50 Guthur: I use it a lot too, but I don't often use threads in lisp 21:53:02 Guthur: so I don't know how it plays with multi-threaded lisp code 21:53:18 dekuked: look at the examples. You should be creating the sockets within the context of with-event-loop (I know, I just haven't fixed it yet...) 21:53:23 jasom: I've not encountered anything insurmountable 21:53:39 register-socket, iirc, is just internal plumbing for tracking sockets once they're created. I'm surprised i even exported it. 21:54:06 but at least I documented the whole API so you shouldn't be doing guesswork off :export :) 21:55:19 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128036067.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:55:21 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1419.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:23 sykopomp: thanks for the tips, I'll go look at that example 21:56:27 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 21:56:41 -!- arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:56:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:00:12 nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-219-197-181.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 22:02:16 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:04 -!- nha [~prefect@g225147092.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:05:11 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 22:05:50 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:05:53 vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 22:06:37 -!- vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has quit [Client Quit] 22:07:26 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:07:53 Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:05 sykopomp: Just came across this in trivial-c-a-s: #+(and ccl (or x86 x86-64) (not ccl-1.4)) 22:08:08 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-219-197-181.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:08:57 sykopomp: I think you might want irc://irc.freenode.net:7000/#+(and ccl-1.5 (or x86 x86-64)), since every version of CCL since 1.4 has ccl-1.4 in *features*. 22:09:41 yeah, that's probably a good idea :) 22:10:20 sykopomp: Note: I haven't done anything with chanl yet, just saw trivial-c-a-s, thought "Oooooh!" and looked at the code. 22:10:43 I miss Adlai :( 22:10:49 -!- Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.7.249] has quit [] 22:13:02 sykopomp: trivial-cas has just been subsumed into chanl? I have "write CAS for CCL" on my ever-expanding todo list forever. Guess I can skip that now :) 22:15:55 -!- dekuked [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:16:43 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:17:45 sohakes [~sohakes@186.207.106.241] has joined #lisp 22:18:32 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:19:11 -!- BeWhy [~chatzilla@c-76-124-138-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120423130206]] 22:20:03 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 22:20:20 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:46 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-117-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:24:29 Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.7.249] has joined #lisp 22:25:33 sellout: I think it was absorbed into ChanL due to pre-quicklisp dependency-phobia. 22:29:29 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:31:35 lony [~lony@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 22:32:13 -!- lony [~lony@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 22:32:37 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 22:33:30 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-178.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:49 arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:57 -!- Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:30 Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:31 -!- Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:39:08 Facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:22 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:43:24 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:44:33 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 22:47:38 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:31 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:51:45 francisl_ [~flavoie@199.84.162.165] has joined #lisp 22:51:45 -!- francisl_ [~flavoie@199.84.162.165] has quit [Client Quit] 22:52:19 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:52:29 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 22:52:30 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:52:56 DataLinkDroid [~David@110.144.5.62] has joined #lisp 22:54:07 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:11 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:55:41 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:57:58 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:06:31 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 23:09:22 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:11:45 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 23:12:02 rodent` [~user@99-130-100-63.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:05 -!- rodent` [~user@99-130-100-63.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:57 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:37 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 23:16:54 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 23:21:16 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053009212.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:22:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:24:37 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:25:21 -!- Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.7.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:26:24 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 23:29:17 Matt_S_G [~Matt_S_G@gateway/tor-sasl/mattsg/x-78535695] has joined #lisp 23:30:29 bruno_coelho [~bruno_coe@187.113.75.43] has joined #lisp 23:36:08 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:36:48 any of y'all ever use my epigraph package? I'm thinking of some API changes. 23:38:33 wbooze_ [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-136-24.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:39:16 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:39:17 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-24.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:39:23 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 23:39:32 -!- robonyankitty [~mechanyan@li125-243.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:39:36 -!- jrockway [jrockway@itchy.jrock.us] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:39:46 jack_rabbit [~Jack_rabb@c-24-13-250-216.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:11 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-167-211.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:40:24 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 23:40:34 -!- djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:41:18 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-211.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:41:31 -!- dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:41:33 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:41:42 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:42:02 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 23:42:04 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:08 -!- elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:42:12 -!- fmu [UNKNOWN@unaffiliated/fmu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:42:22 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.132.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.97.1] 23:42:33 -!- nicdev_ [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:42:37 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:42:45 -!- sjl [~sjl@li136-50.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:43:05 -!- dan64- [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:43:17 -!- dnm [~dnm@li97-254.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:44:24 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:44 -!- arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:45:54 arbn [~arbn@68-112-50-76.static.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:47:11 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:49:14 slyrus: that's a good way to find out, change the API and what for the angry emails 23:49:20 s/what/wait/ 23:49:45 sysadmin standard procedure #31331 23:49:55 unplug, wait for screams. 23:50:32 deprecate if statute of limitations expires. 23:50:40 dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-20-172.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:38 that's what i call unit testing, the users are units 23:52:55 never thought of it that way 23:53:14 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@187.105.3.184] has joined #lisp 23:53:24 i always followed that procedure because if you straight up warn users that something is about to be deprecated, they'll whinge and say they still need it 23:53:31 shizzy0 [~user@c-24-91-161-73.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:31 stassats: heh 23:53:34 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@dhcp-140-247-179-53.fas.harvard.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:54:13 dto [~dto@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:20 sucks when i'm the only user 23:55:13 if you're the sole user and administrator, you would know when something can be deprecated 23:55:14 DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@63-231-108-178.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:55:21 s/would/should/ 23:56:01 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:56:05 -!- tr-808_ [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:58:17 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:59:48 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]