00:00:01 -!- pnq [~nick@AC82D8F0.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:00:24 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:05:14 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 00:05:16 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:17:07 -!- TimKack` [~user@c-2ec2972d-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:22:12 holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:31 ur5us_ [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 00:23:31 ur5us [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 00:24:01 TimKack [~tkack@c-2ec2972d-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 00:28:23 -!- TimKack [~tkack@c-2ec2972d-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Client Quit] 00:30:59 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:31:06 In the interests of not reinventing the wheel, is there a utility that implements (when (boundp foo) foo) 00:31:42 there shouldn't be one 00:32:16 this expression shouldn't encountered too often, and (when (boundp foo) foo) is just fine 00:33:33 okay, I dropped a quote in my example. I've never used it a lot, but it is somewhat useful in e.g. cl-who templates 00:33:53 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:34:23 how exactly is it useful for cl-who templates? 00:34:43 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:35:38 something like (:head (when (boundp '*custom-headers*) *custom-headers) ...) 00:36:22 why is *custom-headers unbound? 00:36:40 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:36:50 (defvar *custom-headers*) 00:37:09 why is it unbound? 00:37:17 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 00:37:21 you're suggesting (defvar *custom-headers* nil)? 00:37:25 yes 00:37:25 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:17 Well it's unbound because to do otherwise would be to save myself work by thinking a little bit more 00:38:21 :) 00:38:31 to the contrary 00:38:56 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:07 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-043-179.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:39:20 Anyhow, thanks! 00:48:12 i am playing around with weblocks. when i change something in one of the demos, how do i see the changes in the app without restarting hutchentoot? (weblocks:reset-sessions) doesn't recompile the app/forms. 00:48:40 holycow: don't expect to receive an answer 00:49:06 k. will try in the mailing list then 00:49:07 thanks! 00:52:12 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host223-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:35 meh I actually have a use case to use funcallable-standard-class 00:54:00 but I don't know if I will screw anything up, coz its also qt-metaclass instance 00:56:25 *maxm-* just gonna do (if (functionp callback) (funcall callback) (observe callback)) where observe is a generic function 00:57:23 the reason I'm doing it, I need to delete callbacks via :key EQ, when GUI window is deleted, and one series may share callbacks from several windows 00:57:41 Posterdati [~tapioca@host223-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 00:58:32 could actually store newly consed (lambda () whatever) in a slot I guess, but its kind of in-elegant for some reason 00:59:38 -!- kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@164-177-155-66.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:00:47 -!- michael_alex [~michael@nat10-222.cs.ucdavis.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:03 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@164-177-155-66.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:04:53 elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 01:07:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:07:51 maxm-: (defmethod observe ((callback function)) (funcall callback)) 01:09:07 yea it crossed my mind too, /me is still thinking it terms of multi-day simulations, thinking to save a 10% here or 10% there, 01:12:53 -!- ur5us_ [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:12:53 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:12:55 anyway time for bed for me, sorry for flooding. 01:15:36 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176173046.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:19:05 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.221] has joined #lisp 01:25:10 BlankVerse [~pankajm@p9225-ipngn100206daianjibetu.nara.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:36:10 htop 01:37:01 -!- xjrn [~innocuous@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:49:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@120.33.26.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:50:37 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-156-171.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:36 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:53:18 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:42 -!- r126f_ [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:55:47 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@p9225-ipngn100206daianjibetu.nara.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:59:33 ur5us [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 01:59:33 ur5us_ [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 02:04:14 dnm: you around? 02:04:17 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:04:24 ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-84-210-68.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:17 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-25-97.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:12:07 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 02:14:46 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:18:08 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:24:49 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 02:25:19 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 02:28:43 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 02:29:43 Oddity- [~Oddity@d75-156-94-13.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:43 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:30:13 -!- Oddity- is now known as Oddity 02:30:16 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@d75-156-94-13.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:30:16 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 02:34:28 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:35:20 -!- vervic [~vervic@vie-078-142-130-186.dsl.sil.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:36:04 xristos [~x@research.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 02:36:06 manahino [~manahino@softbank126108006128.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:23 vervic [~vervic@vie-078-142-130-186.dsl.sil.at] has joined #lisp 02:39:43 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-153-195.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:49:58 BlankVerse [~pankajm@p9225-ipngn100206daianjibetu.nara.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:53:51 jasom: unbound variables or slots are only useful with NIL is a meaningful value that must be distinguished from the unbound state. That's VERY rare that is the case. In general, programs are much simplier without unbound variables or slots. 02:55:33 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:55:53 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 02:56:18 -!- booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has left #lisp 02:57:07 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:59:31 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A9E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:54 BBShortc` [~user@mar92-5-82-225-147-167.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:09 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:01:20 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839F56.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:04:56 -!- BBShortcut [~user@mar92-5-82-225-147-167.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:06:09 tiglog [~topeak@123.114.127.230] has joined #lisp 03:09:59 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.66.141] has joined #lisp 03:12:16 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-107-122-25.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:14:39 -!- ur5us_ [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:14:40 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:16:25 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-28-161-110.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:35 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@177.103.136.5] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:18:23 pnathan [~Adium@64.126.142.148] has joined #lisp 03:18:28 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@119-26-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:49 -!- tiglog [~topeak@123.114.127.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:28:34 s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-192-78.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:33 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:34:06 echo-area [~user@123.120.227.68] has joined #lisp 03:34:27 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:34:59 H4ns: "00:42:32 a mapplist would be kind of nice, but i think it is not there because it would be unidiomatic (mapping functions in cl accept one or more lists as argument, hence the reversal of function and list argument)" <-- I really don't understand this comment... 03:36:40 You can just have the function get 2 arguments for each key/value pair of each plist, no?... So passing 3 plists would produce 6 values each time... 03:37:51 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 03:38:12 huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has joined #lisp 03:38:13 Spion_ [~spion@77.28.252.19] has joined #lisp 03:38:26 -!- Spion_ [~spion@77.28.252.19] has quit [Changing host] 03:38:26 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:41:43 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:44:22 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-25-97.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:46:16 He needs to understand that map is actually map + zip. 03:47:31 So he sees (mapcar #'x a b c) rather than (map (zip a b c) #'x). 03:50:44 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:00:03 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.190] has joined #lisp 04:01:44 ofan [~ofan@unaffiliated/ofan] has joined #lisp 04:05:33 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:44 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 04:07:50 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:14:18 araujo [~araujo@190.38.84.85] has joined #lisp 04:14:18 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.84.85] has quit [Changing host] 04:14:18 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 04:15:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-4.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:17:49 -!- ashish [lostcase@freebsd/developer/ashish] has quit [Quit: Whenever we are together, it's always estatically palpitating!] 04:18:45 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 04:24:38 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:29:22 evening 04:29:59 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-65-144.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:31:12 sacho [~sacho@95-42-65-144.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 04:31:26 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 04:34:12 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: good night folks] 04:38:40 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:01 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 04:49:04 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1206.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:49:51 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 04:50:11 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:24 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:57:04 hefner [~hefner@static-71-166-162-194.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:53 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-147-169.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:30 -!- EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:02:17 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-65-144.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 05:02:25 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-119-76.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:04:38 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@164-177-155-66.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has quit [Ping 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[~nick@AC8CFC79.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:43:11 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:46:45 ashish [lostcase@freebsd/developer/ashish] has joined #lisp 05:51:15 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:39 thom_logn [~thom@pool-173-60-243-134.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:04 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.94.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:53:41 mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-hudd6-0-0-cust741.4-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:04 benny` [~benny@i577A78ED.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:56:08 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-28-161-110.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:57:39 Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 05:57:51 -!- Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has left #lisp 05:59:28 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442267.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:03:44 ludston [~patience@CPE-121-216-33-118.lnse1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:06:52 Why can't I go (defmacro some-macro (foo) (declare (type foo some-clos-class)) ...) ? 06:07:27 Macros receive source code ... 06:07:58 Oh yeah, good point. Thanks! 06:08:00 huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has joined #lisp 06:10:42 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.167.230] has joined #lisp 06:11:25 -!- benny` is now known as benny 06:13:09 ludston: You can use CHECK-TYPE if you want to check arguments type or put the declaration somewhere in the returned form. 06:13:37 gozek [~quassel@20.Red-88-12-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:32 -!- gozek [~quassel@20.Red-88-12-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:16:59 xjrn [~innocuous@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:31 -!- xjrn [~innocuous@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:01 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-14-183.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:31:59 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:44:49 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:45:48 fukushima [~fukushima@z128.124-44-151.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:47:07 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@119-26-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:47:22 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:51:11 nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-57-180.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 06:57:55 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:06 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-65-144.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:06:11 kilon [~kilon@62.1.174.7.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 07:08:04 -!- Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.13.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:09:44 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176173046.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 07:10:43 adnap [~adnap@rrcs-24-227-162-10.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:11:08 does gnu clisp support both unicode and threads? 07:12:26 Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.5.57] has joined #lisp 07:12:55 kilon_alios [~kilon@178.128.25.152.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 07:12:57 |SLB| [~slabua@host64-61-dynamic.61-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:13:22 -!- kilon [~kilon@62.1.174.7.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:13:36 dsabanin [~dsabanin@195.208.164.212] has joined #lisp 07:14:52 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:15:18 sbcl does 07:15:41 i don't think clisp does threads 07:16:49 -!- leo2007 [~leo@120.33.26.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:17:25 ecl also does, I'm unfortunately not sure about clisp, perhaps read its features list on its site, if any? I remember reading about experimental thread support for it a bit 07:18:35 actually, i'm pretty sure every other mature common lisp around supports threads and unicode with the exception of cmucl and clisp 07:19:24 i remember hearing about clisp threads as well, but think they would have made more noise if they were actually working properly :) 07:20:12 i think i will choose ecl because i'm interested in: https://github.com/ageneau/ecl-android 07:21:43 moving between different implementations is typically easy 07:22:37 i'm just starting to lisp with: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 07:22:42 *learn lisp 07:25:08 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:32:29 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:32:54 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:35:31 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-230-161-149.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:35:54 Bike [~Glossina@63-230-161-149.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:39:37 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 07:40:05 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-30-51.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:40:05 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-30-51.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:40:05 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:42:36 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:43:13 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has joined #lisp 07:43:48 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:43:48 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:47:01 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.67.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:48:17 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-230-161-149.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 07:51:19 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:28 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-107-122-25.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:08:50 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:08:50 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:09:28 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 08:11:10 -!- |SLB| is now known as [SLB] 08:11:19 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host64-61-dynamic.61-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 08:11:19 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 08:16:05 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 08:18:28 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:18:33 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has joined #lisp 08:19:22 clisp has the best unicode support. 08:19:34 and it was one of the earliest to have it too. 08:19:36 metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 08:19:55 also, clisp has threads, if you compile it with that option. 08:20:30 ykm [~ykm@180.148.60.235] has joined #lisp 08:20:56 graspee [~graspee@02dd1c10.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 08:21:09 -!- manahino [~manahino@softbank126108006128.bbtec.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:11 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:27:46 teggi [~teggi@123.21.175.206] has joined #lisp 08:30:18 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 08:31:45 Last Google Summer of Code, they requested someone to implement a hash table solution with efficient locking. They said that was the only thing missing for it to be thread-"safe". 08:32:02 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:32:12 I've not checked whether they actually got someone to do the job or not though. 08:33:51 ghast [~z@host40.186-109-246.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 08:35:30 pnq [~nick@ACA21271.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 08:38:08 JaceP [~Jace@c-98-192-164-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:18 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-65-144.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 08:44:08 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-4.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:46:38 manahino [~manahino@softbank126108006128.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:12 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-4.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:53:52 Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:19 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-65-144.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:55:20 mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has joined #lisp 08:56:37 i am having trouble getting slime and emacs working together. i am running gentoo and i have slime and ecls installed. my .emacs contains: (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf)) 2 (setq inferior-lisp-program "ecl") 08:57:18 when i edit a file, the repl just shows "Polling "/tmp/slime.6861".. (Abort with `M-x slime-abort-connection'.)" continuously 08:57:43 adnap: check *inferior-lisp* to see what the problem is. 08:57:45 ignore the "2" i pasted. that was just a line number 08:57:56 what does *inferior-lisp* show? 08:58:00 adnap: use an absolute pathname in inferior-lisp-program "ecl. 08:59:21 pjb: i don't know what you mean by "check inferior-lisp" i just installed lisp and i don't even know what that is 08:59:36 adnap: type C-x b *inferior-lisp* RET 08:59:52 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21271.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:00:03 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:00:26 adnap: it's the name of an emacs buffer 09:00:28 And notice I and pkhuong said *inferior-lisp* not inferior-lisp. 09:00:50 it gives me a blank buffer 09:01:09 adnap: what OS are you using? 09:01:18 pkhuong: linux 09:02:07 how did you install slime? 09:02:42 with gentoo's package manager "emerge" 09:03:26 ask the nice gentoo people then. I think one or two lisp gentoo packagers hang around here during american hours. 09:03:39 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:03:39 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 09:03:39 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 09:03:49 alright. perhaps i will call it a night and ask tomorrow afternoon 09:04:15 I use quicklisp to install all the lisp-related stuff I need (except for the implementation itself). 09:05:30 pnq [~nick@ACA21271.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 09:07:41 pkhuong: so i can install slime via quicklisp? 09:09:12 adnap: yes. It's the fourth basic command on the beta's page (look for "To install and configure SLIME, use:") 09:10:11 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.190] has quit [Quit: xyxu] 09:11:34 is the quicklisp version of slime older than the current upstream version? 09:12:10 slilo [~user@host-94-251-99-133.bbcustomer.zsttk.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:17 metaphysician: by a month or so. It's usually a decently-working version though, which is never guaranteed when grabbing HEAD. 09:12:40 that sentence looks so wrong. maybe it's my terrible mind 09:15:42 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:19:08 BrianRice [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:08 -!- BrianRice` [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:20:55 BrianRice` [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:55 -!- BrianRice [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:20:56 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 09:23:31 BrianRice` [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:32 -!- BrianRice [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:23:32 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 09:23:34 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 09:25:32 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21271.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:26:12 BrianRice` [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:14 -!- BrianRice [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:26:14 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 09:26:19 leo2007 [~leo@120.33.26.6] has joined #lisp 09:27:47 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@31.163.216.167] has joined #lisp 09:28:34 BrianRice` [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:34 -!- BrianRice [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:35 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 09:28:38 EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 09:29:01 pnq [~nick@ACA21271.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 09:38:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-4.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:39:05 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21271.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:40:03 BrianRice` [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:03 -!- BrianRice [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:40:04 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 09:41:14 -!- BrianRice [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:14 BrianRice` [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:14 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 09:41:19 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:41:38 pnq [~nick@ACA21271.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 09:42:30 quazimodo [~quazimodo@d58-106-201-209.bla801.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:42:35 sacho [~sacho@95-42-96-143.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 09:42:46 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:44:38 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@178.128.25.152.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:45:33 -!- dsabanin [~dsabanin@195.208.164.212] has quit [Quit: dsabanin] 09:46:36 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:46:38 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48:24 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 09:49:15 kilon [~kilon@188.4.65.241.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 09:49:29 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 09:50:57 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:51:41 mathrick [~mathrick@193.59.74.18] has joined #lisp 09:51:51 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21271.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:54:33 pnq [~nick@ACA21271.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 09:56:24 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@193.59.74.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:00:20 -!- ykm [~ykm@180.148.60.235] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:02:54 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 10:02:56 mathrick [~mathrick@193.59.74.18] has joined #lisp 10:07:29 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@193.59.74.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:10:15 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:10:15 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 10:10:15 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 10:10:53 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:11:59 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:21:13 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:24:33 minion: Can I use you to leave a memo for Xach? 10:24:35 Xach: well, i don't think can i use you to leave a memo though 10:24:43 wut? 10:28:00 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:29:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-4.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:30:51 minion: spaghetti sauce with onions, naryl? 10:30:52 watch out, you'll make krystof angry 10:38:21 -!- vervic [~vervic@vie-078-142-130-186.dsl.sil.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:41:25 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-187.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:42:50 chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.39.219.179] has joined #lisp 10:42:50 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.39.219.179] has quit [Changing host] 10:42:50 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 10:46:09 ngz [~user@103.69.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:46:44 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:48:23 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@111-95-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:15 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21271.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:50:08 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-147-169.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:50:50 pnq [~nick@ACA21271.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 10:50:50 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 10:51:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-4.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:54:13 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:55:00 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-129-184.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:42 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 11:04:54 -!- metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:05:55 metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 11:06:19 n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@31.163.216.167] has joined #lisp 11:07:34 mucker [~mucker@183.83.209.51] has joined #lisp 11:07:57 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@31.163.216.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:09:09 naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-167-77.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:10:12 -!- leo2007 [~leo@120.33.26.6] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.96.1] 11:14:11 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:20:30 Guthur [~user@host86-147-204-34.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:22:14 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:22:33 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 11:23:36 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-4.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:26:30 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 11:28:26 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:28:26 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 11:28:26 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 11:29:11 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:38:33 timor [~icke@port-92-195-95-182.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:39:49 is there a (possibly non-portable) way to determine the type-specifier for an existing function as it would be given to the ftype declaration? 11:40:38 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-128-28.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:40:39 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 11:40:41 (sb-kernel:%simple-fun-type #'integer-length) => (FUNCTION (T) (VALUES (MOD 1073741760) &OPTIONAL)) 11:40:51 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-156-171.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:41:11 pkhuong: ahh very nice 11:41:20 cl:describe reports that information as well. 11:42:07 pkhuong: What does the &optional part in an FTYPE declaration mean? 11:42:58 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@d58-106-201-209.bla801.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:43:28 wolkefm [~wolkefm@129.137.203.9] has joined #lisp 11:43:44 this should be a faq. By default, VALUES type specifiers only constraint the k first values, and any remaining are left alone. 11:44:26 When a lambda keyword like &optional, &key or &rest appears, it's instead interpreted as the lambda list of a FUNCTION type that would be called with multiple-value-call. 11:44:49 So, it means that the function returns exactly one value, of type (mod 1073741760). 11:47:35 (or, more literally, that the return valueS of integer-length could be used to m-v-call a function of type (function ((mod 1073741760) &optional)). 11:48:27 why is the argument type to integer-length T and not integer? 11:49:30 -!- wolkefm [~wolkefm@129.137.203.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:51:26 timor: it's derived type, declared type is integer 11:51:26 timor: it could be, but the definition uses an explicit etypecase to test that out. If the argument's type was DECLAREd integer, that would show up in the derived type... but then passing a non-integer to that definition of integer-length would have undefined consequences. 11:54:14 so that means getting a TYPE-ERROR when passed a different argument type as DECLAREd is courtesy of the implementation and it would be allowed to just interpret that arg in whatever way it likes? 11:54:43 right 11:54:59 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-107-122-25.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:55:21 but usually lying to the compiler is a bad idea 11:55:46 -!- kilon [~kilon@188.4.65.241.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:56:06 if you want to ensure type checking, use CHECK-TYPE 11:56:11 i just tried it out with (optimize (safety 0)) undefined consequences is a pretty good description of what happens 11:56:29 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:58:27 kilon [~kilon@188.4.27.87.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 12:00:57 it seems that (safety 0) also prevents check-type from being called 12:01:13 it makes code unsafe 12:01:21 clhs glossary/unsafe code 12:01:28 clhs glossary/safe code 12:01:36 specbot: wake up, dummy! 12:01:53 clhs list 12:01:54 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_list.htm 12:02:03 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_s.htm 12:02:05 i should add error messages or something 12:02:14 timor: check type will be optimised away if the declared type already fits. 12:03:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:04:07 -!- metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:05:46 in any case, you shouldn't be using (safety 0) in most of the code 12:07:04 (DECLARE (OPTIMIZE SPEED (SAFETY 0) (DEBUG 0))) 12:07:38 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:07:42 Quadrescence: it's like that insanity wolf meme 12:07:49 haha 12:08:08 (also I actually meant DECLAIM) 12:08:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:08:54 and you missed (space 0) (compilation-speed 0) 12:09:32 Is it bad form to use macroexpand in your code for the same reason it is to use eval?\ 12:09:49 metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 12:09:56 ludston: rarely necessary or a good idea. 12:10:07 ludston: it just doesn't make sense 12:10:53 -!- metaphysician is now known as Guest71027 12:11:01 metaphys1cian [~matrix@117.219.4.14] has joined #lisp 12:11:27 -!- Guest71027 [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Client Quit] 12:11:27 -!- metaphys1cian [~matrix@117.219.4.14] has quit [Client Quit] 12:11:48 metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 12:12:07 but, if you do, remember the environment argument. 12:12:18 Environment argument? 12:14:43 ludston: the optional argument to macroexpand[-1]. If you're not using it, you're very probably doing it wrong. 12:15:40 Oh, I see. That makes sense. 12:21:52 -!- cruxeternus [crux@secspeed.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:25:54 so the rule that e.g. the function #'+ expects arguments of type NUMBER is implicit, meaning the programmer must derive that knowledge from a different source than the implementation itself? 12:26:28 clhs + 12:26:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_pl.htm 12:26:30 here's the source 12:26:44 i know, i just wanted it confirmed 12:27:11 BigHugeDog [~QQ@218.58.12.207] has joined #lisp 12:27:32 implementations are rarely a good source 12:27:33 -!- metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:27:41 Hm, lately I've observed weird 2-5 second delays in emacs when writing lisp code... I wonder if it has to do with SLIME. 12:28:22 Quadrescence: have you been consuming psychostimulants? maybe your brain started processing information much faster? 12:28:51 Quadrescence: in case it's slime indeed, instrument it with M-x elp-profile-package and see what happens 12:29:55 as I press M-x elp-ins[trument-package], right before those brackets, emacs freezes for a couple of seconds and nothing happens, then all the text appears. This is weird and annoying. 12:30:54 timor: well, declaring the type of + as only receiving NUMBER arguments would make the consequences undefined if the arguments weren't numbers. Not very convivial, at least when safety > 0. 12:31:22 metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 12:32:38 pkhuong: i guiess that the consequences are undefined is the thing that bugs me. why not simply require from the spec that a type-error _must_ be thrown by #'+ (when safety > 0) 12:33:07 timor: type declarations are promises on the programmer's part to the implementation. 12:33:47 maybe there could be things as "type expectations" from the implementation 12:34:05 it's called CHECK-TYPE. 12:34:34 i don't know what is it that you're doing that it bugs you, but it's rarely a problem 12:35:28 timor: a specification is only useful if it specifies what people are all willing to implement. At the time that it was specified, there was not a consensus that implementations should be responsible for all possible error checking 12:38:01 clhs 3.5.1.1 12:38:01 Safe and Unsafe Calls: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_eaa.htm 12:38:05 there is that, though. 12:38:40 -!- _death is now known as adeht 12:41:15 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-107-122-25.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:17 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 12:45:31 when i define a function that contains a call like (+ 5 'a), the compiler will warn me about a conflict with an asserted type(SBCL). how does the compiler assert these types? 12:46:24 because + only accepts numbers, and 'a is not a number 12:46:40 timor: internal logic. 12:56:50 timor: Also, see DECLARE, DECLAIM and PROCLAIM. 12:57:35 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:00:16 alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-226-8.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:58 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 13:03:01 -!- alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-226-8.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:05:31 hefner [~hefner@static-71-166-162-194.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:38 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@111-95-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:10:16 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21271.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16:30 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.209.51] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:20:43 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:28 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:24:51 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:52 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 13:44:17 simplechat [~simplecha@ppp121-44-132-207.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:18 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@ppp121-44-132-207.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:44:18 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 13:52:53 -!- metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:58:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-57-222.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 13:58:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-57-222.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 13:58:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:59:08 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:04:46 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:10 -!- hefner [~hefner@static-71-166-162-194.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hefner] 14:07:38 hefner [~hefner@static-71-166-162-194.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:10 Also, as a reminder to people, there's a US lisp job: http://denver.craigslist.org/sof/3005966457.html 14:08:10 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 14:08:43 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-28-161-110.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:53 if you have any questions about it you could ask me, even though i'm not in charge 14:09:05 -!- Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.5.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:17:51 wildnux_ [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:28 -!- nepnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:51 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:23:16 -!- wildnux_ [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:26:26 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 14:26:56 -!- echo-area [~user@123.120.227.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:15 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 14:33:05 ccomendant [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ccomendant] has joined #lisp 14:37:13 -!- zenbalrog [~johnnyc@adsl-98-70-101-45.tys.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:42:34 Quadrescence: is that the same company as the guy who went to ECLM last year 14:42:38 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:42:51 yeah 14:42:55 it sounded very impressive 14:43:24 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01024c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:40 I wasn't there but watch the video 14:43:46 watched* 14:45:31 If I was remotely qualified I would certainly apply; sounded like you guys have got a real winner on your hands 14:46:20 -!- EvilTosha-ub [~eviltosha@isa1.alpha-pc.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:47:32 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:48:49 i lack qualifications in "image processing and artificial intelligence techniques, advanced cryptography, communications, ... and embedded real-time." 14:49:01 good luck finding somebody with all qualifications 14:49:18 kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-45.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:51:56 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:52:10 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:52:32 i recommend you let the employer decide if you're qualified, and not yourself :) 14:53:10 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:03 btbngr [~Matt@host86-171-39-175.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:55:19 I play with CL since few weeks and I have a question 14:55:29 We're here to help! :) 14:55:39 when a macro takes one of its argument to set the name of a defun 14:56:06 how can I give it as a result of another defun? 14:56:25 mathrick [~mathrick@193.59.74.18] has joined #lisp 14:56:42 with hunchentoot:define-easy-handler for instance 14:56:53 BBShortc`: i don't really understand your question 14:56:59 vervic [~vervic@88.116.134.106] has joined #lisp 14:57:01 can you paste what you have and what you want? 14:57:16 ikki [~ikki@189.139.25.223] has joined #lisp 14:57:27 asvil [~asvil@178.121.94.18] has joined #lisp 14:57:29 how could I provide the easy-handler name as the result of a defun/method? 14:57:32 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:58:03 stassats: OK I try it 14:58:13 BBShortc`: I understand the question. 14:59:10 what do you mean by "the result of a defun/method"? 14:59:36 Well... if the macro doesn't evaluate an argument you can't force it. Usually there is a function hiding behind a macro which you can use. If not the only option is using eval or wrapping define-easy-handler call in another macro. 14:59:40 the result of defun is a symbol naming the function, and defmethod returns a method object 14:59:51 stassats: (define-easy-handler (make-handler-name "smth") ...) 15:00:38 stassats: BBShortc` wants to make it work. AFAIU 15:00:46 naryl: exactly, it does not work 15:00:54 naryl: why does he want to make it work? 15:01:01 stassats: Why are you asking me? :D 15:01:15 naryl: i understand you better! 15:01:46 stassats: I don't know. Maybe the handlers are loaded form a text file? There are cases. 15:02:13 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@193.59.74.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:02:27 in fact I would like to load handlers from a list of "page" objects 15:02:41 does it have to be define-easy-handler? 15:03:03 stassats: first time with Hunchentoot so... 15:03:18 and it's a common issue I get 15:04:27 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:04:56 EvilTosha-ub [~eviltosha@isa1.alpha-pc.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:30 BBShortc`: You often need to make a macro evaluate an argument that it doesn't evaluate? 15:05:52 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:07:05 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:07:56 tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.67.204] has joined #lisp 15:08:01 naryl: I can't help it :-) 15:08:08 paste 129415 15:08:19 you can just create your own dispatchers without using any macros 15:08:37 -!- ashish [lostcase@freebsd/developer/ashish] has quit [Quit: Whenever we are together, it's always estatically palpitating!] 15:08:46 mathrick [~mathrick@193.59.74.18] has joined #lisp 15:08:48 stassats: even with easy-acceptor? 15:09:02 abbe [lostcase@2a01:4f8:131:13c1:abbe:abbe:abbe:abbe] has joined #lisp 15:09:03 naryl: where do I conceptually fail? 15:09:08 -!- shifty [~user@114-198-37-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:20 with anything you want 15:09:37 shifty [~user@114-198-37-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 15:09:46 -!- joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:09:48 BBShortc`: a macro should be seen as syntax. If it doesn't evaluate an argument you can only make it ealuate it using a few hacks like the one you just pasted :) 15:09:59 other options are EVAL and #. reader macro. 15:10:02 stassats: I have to check the request don't I? 15:10:30 BBShortc`: read the docs, read the code and you'll get an answer 15:10:51 naryl: my hacks don't even work 15:11:15 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:31 -!- btbngr [~Matt@host86-171-39-175.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:11:40 stassats: But in this case with Hunchentoot there is a better option. You can write a single handler (or acceptor? Haven't used hunchentoot in a while) that uses the category url directly. 15:11:48 btbngr [~btbngr@host86-171-39-175.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:11:49 s/stassats/BBShortc`/ 15:12:21 OK 15:13:08 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@193.59.74.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:13:10 easy handlers are *meant* to be useful in a few simple cases ) 15:13:21 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:14:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:14:44 -!- slilo [~user@host-94-251-99-133.bbcustomer.zsttk.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:14:45 yes so I probably won't use them anymore 15:15:02 and as stassats says I have to get deeper in Hunchentoot 15:15:19 thinking macros as pure syntax helps indeed 15:15:51 thank you guys 15:16:06 BBShortc`: there are a few tutorials on Hunchentoot docs page. 15:16:15 I think one of them used proper handlers. 15:16:19 See also POST-PARAMETER. 15:16:24 http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/#tutorials 15:16:40 (scratch the line bofore the url :]) 15:19:17 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:22:45 -!- shifty [~user@114-198-37-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:06 shifty [~user@114-198-37-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 15:24:29 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:29 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 15:24:40 ls 15:24:49 Ugh, wrong window, sorry 15:24:55 Greetings lispers! 15:25:11 *ThomasH* takes a drink of coffee 15:25:14 ThomasH: Feels empty :) 15:26:27 naryl: :-) 15:26:49 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@84-236-57-207.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 15:26:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:27:25 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:23 -!- abbe [lostcase@2a01:4f8:131:13c1:abbe:abbe:abbe:abbe] has quit [Quit: Whenever we are together, it's always estatically palpitating!] 15:31:58 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:32:56 mathrick [~mathrick@193.59.74.18] has joined #lisp 15:34:32 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@29-197-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:36 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:36:14 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-57-180.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:36:24 dekuked [~dekuked@pool-108-20-217-59.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:04 Sorry for the none CL question but...Does anyone know of a good font or setup that would increase the perceived spacing around parenthesis? 15:37:19 on emacs 15:37:32 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:37:43 -!- manahino [~manahino@softbank126108006128.bbtec.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:02 Which socket library supports ipv6 sockets? sb-bsd-sockets don't, as far as I can see. 15:39:10 -!- BigHugeDog [~QQ@218.58.12.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:39:31 francisl [~flavoie@69.157.253.44] has joined #lisp 15:39:56 BigHugeDog [~QQ@218.58.12.207] has joined #lisp 15:40:53 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has joined #lisp 15:40:58 antoszka: iolib seems to have some ipv6 support 15:41:06 I have not used it though 15:41:35 Thx, I'll have a look. 15:43:17 antoszka: is Linux and FreeBSD only, incase that is an issue for you 15:43:39 Guthur: by design? 15:43:41 Probably not. 15:43:54 naryl: yep, it would appear so 15:44:03 i.e. is there a reason why iib can't be ported to other platforms? 15:44:06 ok 15:47:06 BigHugeDog1 [~QQ@218.58.12.207] has joined #lisp 15:47:17 naryl: fe[nl]ix would be the one to ask 15:47:32 I imagine he is just not interested in Win platform 15:48:44 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:48:46 probably not least because there is quite a few incompatibilities between BSD sockets on FreeBSD and Linux and Windows 15:49:08 -!- BigHugeDog [~QQ@218.58.12.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:49:35 s/Windows/winsock 15:49:56 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:09 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:53:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@84-236-57-207.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 15:53:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@84-236-57-207.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 15:53:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:53:43 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@84-236-57-207.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:54:00 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:54:01 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-45.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:54:23 -!- dekuked [~dekuked@pool-108-20-217-59.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:17 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 15:57:06 ashish [lostcase@freebsd/developer/ashish] has joined #lisp 15:57:48 [SLB] [~slabua@host148-135-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:57:48 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host148-135-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 15:57:48 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 15:58:11 dze [~user@69.Red-79-158-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:42 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:01:36 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.167.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:02:36 -!- froydnj [nfroyd@people.mozilla.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:04:17 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:38 nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-57-180.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:04:58 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:06:28 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 16:09:10 dekuked [~dekuked@pool-108-20-217-59.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:11 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:21 what does this mean?: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129417 16:09:39 trying to build ccl from a svn co 16:10:27 you don't have a working c compilation environment 16:11:43 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442267.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:14:13 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:14:40 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:15:23 when I run gcc -v, I get right-looking details 16:15:30 should I paste it? 16:15:43 and when you run make -v 16:17:51 yep, didn't have make. thanks stassats! 16:18:15 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:18:16 snearch [~snearch@f053004243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:18:36 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.25.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:18:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:18:46 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053004243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:18:55 snearch [~snearch@f053004243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:21:28 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:53 pnq [~nick@AC814581.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:19 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:24:36 -!- hiyosi [~hiyosi@102.124.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:30 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-96-143.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:18 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-67-20.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 16:36:20 fantazo [~fantazo@85-127-81-166.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 16:38:39 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:00 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@85-127-81-166.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:11 um... what am I supposed to do after I build it? where am I supposed to put it? 16:39:22 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 16:39:37 the clozure docs aren't helpful there, probably because of the myriad of linux distros 16:41:30 put it where you like it 16:42:00 like /usr/bin? 16:42:39 francisl_ [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176341901.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:43:38 -!- francisl [~flavoie@69.157.253.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:43:38 -!- francisl_ is now known as francisl 16:44:27 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.179.139] has joined #lisp 16:44:27 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.179.139] has quit [Changing host] 16:44:28 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 16:46:40 that's probably not the best idea 16:46:40 so, where is a tutorial on setting up a basic emacs config with a cl implementation? I know I'm supposed to setup the basics and then install quicklisp... 16:47:01 ikki [~ikki@189.139.25.223] has joined #lisp 16:47:06 stassats`: what would you suggest? 16:47:58 i'd suggest to put it somewhere in your home directory 16:49:00 dekuked: http://mohiji.nfshost.com/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-linux/ 16:50:24 stassats`: thank you for your suggestions and the link 16:55:20 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:57:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-63-193.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 16:57:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-63-193.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 16:57:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:03:00 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:03:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:04:01 attila_lendvai 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[ciulla.mar@151.66.214.213] has joined #lisp 17:47:11 ciao 17:47:21 -!- Giada96 [ciulla.mar@151.66.214.213] has left #lisp 17:51:20 inkjetunit [~wrwrwr@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has joined #lisp 17:52:50 is there any reason for _not_ using elisp for learning purproses? 17:53:32 for learning programming concepts in general, it's fine. For learning Common Lisp, you'll have some impedance mismatch when you flip over to CL itself 17:53:51 -!- ered [~ered@108-201-125-162.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:54 just like me today when i was trying to program in scheme, knowing only CL 17:54:04 it might be useful if you want to write emacs extensions 17:54:50 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:54:57 once you get slime set up, there shouldn't be any difference in ease of use between CL and elisp. CL might even be more accessible. (I have barely touched elisp) 17:55:18 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 17:55:34 ok. thanks for your answers :) 17:55:58 -!- kilon [~kilon@188.4.27.87.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:57:13 ered [~ered@108-201-125-162.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:07 -!- ered [~ered@108-201-125-162.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:24 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-122-120.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:17 ered [~ered@108-201-125-162.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:54 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 18:01:37 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-154-1.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:32 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-129-184.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:04:31 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-122-120.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:06:12 nepnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:42 inkjetunit: knowing at least rudimentary elisp will be useful if you are going to be using emacs a lot 18:07:01 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-23-8.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:08 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:07:17 and if you want to do much CL the you will most likely be using emacs and slime a lot 18:07:37 thought that is not the only solution for a CL dev env 18:08:31 if you know cl, you don't really need to learn elisp 18:08:32 *Guthur* also uses emacs for C++, TCL and bash 18:09:20 tresta [~narog@s213-103-192-37.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 18:14:46 kilon [~kilon@195.74.247.174.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:15:32 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129033150.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 18:15:39 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:17:23 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:49 Of course, Emacs moving to Guile is no longer an April Fool's joke. 18:19:24 just a joke? 18:20:26 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:20:29 It seems like a decent idea to me. 18:22:26 ChibaPet: surely it will need a compatibility layer, and could mean a fragmentation of the development community 18:22:36 but that's a discussion for #emacs 18:23:18 My understanding is that there is indeed a compatibility layer that's working well, but agreed. And I guess I need to join #emacs again. 18:25:49 -!- inkjetunit [~wrwrwr@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has quit [Quit: qQQQQQ] 18:27:55 ChibaPet: just found this http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2012/bpt/23002 18:28:08 but we are going to alert the topic police soon 18:28:15 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:28:26 *ChibaPet* ducks. 18:29:02 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-23-8.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 18:30:35 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:16 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@141-136-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:35 come back when they're porting it to a real lisp 18:33:13 DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:18 it's too bad emacs isn't build on common lisp 18:34:32 galdor: there's a project that is aiming to port emacs to cl: http://tromey.com/blog/?p=709 18:34:48 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-228-15.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:06 and of course climacs 18:37:07 from what I read on the emacs-devel ml, some people just don't like common lisp, I'm not sure this kind of initiative can thrive (even if I hope so) 18:37:27 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-154-1.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:37:32 and hemlock 18:38:45 http://www.cliki.net/CL-Emacs heh 18:39:18 mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has joined #lisp 18:39:49 -!- vervic [~vervic@88.116.134.106] has quit [Quit: vervic] 18:40:27 a some mentioned a major issue is that an elisp interpreter is needed anyway to reuse any of the emacs modules 18:41:39 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-225-11.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:44 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-225-11.as43234.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:05 Kryztof: do you know if ELS is planned for Madrid next year? 18:43:13 fe[nl]ix: is iolib still maintained ? the last release is nearly two years old 18:43:47 galdor: that seems incorrect, I pretty confident there has been recent releases 18:43:55 galdor: At least it still works. 18:44:08 I believe that ELS is planned for Madrid next year 18:44:23 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-228-15.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:44:26 we're working on firming up the details 18:44:34 Guthur: http://common-lisp.net/project/iolib/download.shtml 24-Oct-2010 18:44:36 -!- n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@31.163.216.167] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:45:21 galdor: seems that a release tarball has not been released in a while 18:45:30 but the last change on the github repo was 20 hours ago 18:45:48 I think Quicklisp supplies a more recent version 18:45:50 who cares about releases, live on the edge! 18:46:04 That reminds me. 18:46:56 I enjoy using stable releases 18:47:10 then use it 18:47:17 stassats`: We have a project on ClojureScript and the dev who uses it recently complained that it's hard to match library versions that work with each other. it even has a package manager which even manages to download incompatible vesrions. 18:47:24 Why does Quicklisp just works? 18:47:52 because Xach is the man 18:47:56 :3 18:48:12 Well, almost. I can't install xcvb. 18:48:34 naryl: easy no one is developing CL libraries, hehe 18:48:38 I'm trolling 18:48:46 Guthur: That's what he said too :P 18:49:34 Xach comes knocking on the doors to get your libraries fixed 18:51:04 that lacks a supporting lolcat image 18:56:18 galdor: I advise you to use the git version of iolib. I won't be able to make a release very soon 18:56:46 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:19 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-57-180.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:00:10 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:00:11 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:01 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129033150.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:01:37 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:14 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@111.134.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:02:22 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:03:37 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129033150.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 19:04:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:05:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:11:31 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:43 -!- ccomendant [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ccomendant] has left #lisp 19:17:13 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:20:18 -!- dze [~user@69.Red-79-158-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:20:41 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:59 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 19:22:01 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:23:29 khumba [~khumba@c-24-18-250-30.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:41 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:12 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: .] 19:28:08 -!- tntc [~tntc@c-98-217-26-29.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:29:24 fe[nl]ix: still here? 19:29:50 yes 19:29:51 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 19:30:59 fe[nl]ix: I have an IRC bot on iolib which had around a month uptime when this happened: 19:31:12 (where's the lisppaste bot again?) 19:31:27 http://paste.lisp.org/display/129418 19:32:20 I need a backtrace too, that alone is a bit insufficient 19:32:33 Nothing was wrong with the server or IRC. Nothing strange in the logs. Can I help with fixing it? :) 19:32:45 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:33:08 ok, maybe I have the backtrace in the logs. 19:33:18 naryl: lisppaste is resting 19:34:19 fe[nl]ix: sorry >.< This bot doesn't have a logger. I'll write one and create an issue on github when/if it breaks next time. 19:34:31 with backtrace 19:35:01 naryl: looks like your descriptor got disconnected 19:35:07 i get that error when my does 19:35:18 i just sweep it under the carpet 19:35:29 s/my/mine/ 19:35:37 "Unknown error" is weird 19:38:12 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:38:54 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@193.59.74.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:38:56 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 19:39:30 ah, I see 19:42:21 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 19:43:34 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.66.141] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 19:44:00 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:44:32 -!- dekuked [~dekuked@pool-108-20-217-59.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:44:32 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 19:45:24 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:25 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:45:33 -!- JaceP [~Jace@c-98-192-164-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:46:47 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:47:11 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:47:32 naryl: that error means that poll() signalled a generic POLLERR on the socket 19:48:27 you can retrieve the underlying socket error using (iolib.sockets:socket-option :error) 19:48:51 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@111.134.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 19:49:14 I'd expect an ECONNRESET, EHOSTUNREACH or similar 19:49:31 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:50 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 19:56:09 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 19:56:10 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:58:24 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:24 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:59:59 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-153-181.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:09 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:09 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:02:46 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.25.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:03:24 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:24 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:04:12 VieiraN [~VieiraN@177.103.136.6] has joined #lisp 20:04:25 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053004243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:09:31 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:09:54 do draw some pretty basic charts our of data in a PG database, would you use cl-plot or something else entirely? (I want eps or the like to embed in a latex beamer slide deck) 20:10:28 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-22-152.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:10:30 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-22-152.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:10:33 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-55-243.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 20:11:15 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-55-243.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 20:13:10 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 20:13:37 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@141-136-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:14:03 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:14:17 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:14:51 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:16:42 ikki [~ikki@187.193.150.186] has joined #lisp 20:17:51 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:22 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:20:05 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 20:21:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.150.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:25:05 dim: I might just find a LaTeX chart-drawing library and arrange for the data to get massaged suitably as input for that. 20:25:27 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:27:27 I usually do some very simple things with matplotlib, in python, because I like the output better than gnuplot 20:27:47 Is there mistake in "class-name" function description http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node311.html#SECTION003220000000000000000. "The new-value argument..." is wrong string. 20:27:47 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 20:28:07 it was question* 20:28:29 cltl is not the standard 20:28:49 and? 20:29:09 nobody cares whether it's wrong or not 20:29:41 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:29:49 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:53 I may go with http://www.cliki.net/simplot 20:30:21 there's no (setf class-name) in CL at all 20:32:38 pardon me, there is 20:33:12 it's a bit confusing that there're on different pages and class-name doesn't refer to it 20:34:06 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:17 neither is referring to each either, shame on Mr. Pitman 20:35:13 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:36:45 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Out of this 3D] 20:37:12 where does uffi search for the shared libs? 20:37:58 I see that stumpwm is in quicklisp! does quickloading it pull everything you need to add it to your .xinitrc? 20:38:33 robot-beethoven: have you tried? 20:39:06 dim: I call out to R and ggplot2. 20:39:23 stassats: hmmm.... one sec 20:39:53 dim: why uffi ? 20:41:04 cl-gd seems to be using it 20:41:17 ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.84] has joined #lisp 20:41:35 and simplot uses cl-gd 20:42:14 maybe vecto could work 20:43:15 ah, it's called http://ryepup.unwashedmeme.com/lisp/adw-charting/ 20:43:43 maybe it's only ugly for the choice of colors in the docs 20:43:50 KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 20:44:59 dim: for high-quality graphics I would recommend R with the tikzDevice graphics backend 20:45:14 graphics where the axis labels match your body font. *purr* 20:45:24 tikz looks nice but that's lots of code to write to have a simple graph 20:45:28 true 20:46:21 adw-charting tests give me: Car of (400 300) is not a function name or lambda-expression. I don't think I'll play with that one... 20:46:36 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:47:12 i tried adw-charting once, it didn't play out well with resizing things to fit text and all 20:47:19 so i did my own charts, in ASCII 20:47:45 ditaa is cool for doing ascii diagrams that are not charts 20:49:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:50:23 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:50:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:50:39 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:51:56 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:52:45 Kryztof: ohh, I should try that one out (: 20:53:57 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.94.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:55:43 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:55:51 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:46 viraldiego [~user@81.202.27.33.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:40 pkhuong: great for the anal-retentive typesetter 21:00:55 last I tried it, I exploded first xelatex's strings memory, then tikz's stack 21:01:04 some manual manipulation needed :-) 21:01:22 I'll probably stick to pdf output then. 21:01:24 nooo! 21:01:31 I was doing something absurdly complex 21:01:46 (and this was a year or so ago, too) 21:02:35 vecto looks very cool 21:02:41 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-4.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:03:12 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.167.230] has joined #lisp 21:05:19 ikki [~ikki@200.95.169.176] has joined #lisp 21:05:36 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-23-8.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:43 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-23-8.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:08:30 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:45 zmv [~zmv@c9533ff6.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:11:15 I think simplot using vecto rather than gd would make my day :) 21:12:49 -!- shifty [~user@114-198-37-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:24 shifty [~user@114-198-37-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:13:39 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-23-8.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:04 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-23-8.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:14:20 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:16:22 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:25 -!- KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:16 -!- zmv is now known as vmz 21:19:24 -!- vmz is now known as zmv 21:19:49 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.169.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:20:22 no idea what the state of cl-cairo is, but it would be another vector output medium 21:20:46 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:21:03 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:26 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 21:28:02 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:29:40 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:29:43 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.167.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:30:20 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01024c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:29 Demosthenes [~demo@md02c36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:19 -!- Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.17.252] has quit [] 21:38:56 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.181.128] has joined #lisp 21:39:30 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:40:12 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 21:42:02 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:04 -!- ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-84-210-68.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ipmonger] 21:47:19 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:49:03 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:50:52 Radium_ [~rajesh.na@117.203.17.252] has joined #lisp 21:51:34 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:52:45 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-20-17.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:40 mathrick [~mathrick@193.59.74.18] has joined #lisp 21:53:59 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:56:05 -!- khumba [~khumba@c-24-18-250-30.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Oyasumi.] 21:59:07 rodent` [~user@99-130-100-63.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:17 -!- ghast [~z@host40.186-109-246.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:59:31 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:59:41 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.181.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:00:05 ghast [~z@host215.190-31-5.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:00:20 -!- BigHugeDog1 [~QQ@218.58.12.207] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:04:01 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.181.128] has joined #lisp 22:06:43 *slyrus_* still wants pdf output from a mcclim drawing medium or whatever it's called 22:08:43 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:34 TimKack [~tkack@c-2ec2309d-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 22:12:00 slyrus_: For some reason, that doesn't seem like a hard problem to me. 22:12:22 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:12:52 Not something that I feel any kind of a need to work on, but... you have an abstraction for output, specifically the medium abstraction, and you have libraries that output PDF... 22:18:24 klltkr [~klltkr@dsl78-143-221-77.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:18:54 everything is easy until you try to do it :-) 22:21:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:22:27 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:33 Oh, not everything. I distinctly remember accidentally killing someone else's project by demonstrating that the problems that they had spent more than a year bitching about being hard were in fact simple to solve sufficiently that they were no longer a sticking point. 22:26:12 Of course, the demonstration was an existence proof, thus competition. Oops. 22:26:35 those times are the best :-) reminds me showing a guy who wrote his own program to tail a log cygwin and tail -f 22:27:23 happened other way around a few times also 22:27:38 Mmm. 22:28:25 -!- two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:29:38 -!- naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-167-77.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:45:02 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:46:04 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:46:06 mcclim is filled with lots of easily-solvable problems 22:47:18 -!- ngz [~user@103.69.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:48:27 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:49:03 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 22:50:39 Too bad it gets no love, huh? 22:51:18 heh 22:55:33 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:01:48 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.67.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:02:02 -!- btbngr [~btbngr@host86-171-39-175.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:02:05 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.55] has joined #lisp 23:02:13 is mcclim unmaintained? 23:02:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:54 btbngr [~btbngr@host86-171-39-175.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:03:31 hmm I remember beach working on it but I've not seen him around lately 23:03:59 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:27 beach was working recently on clim3 afaik 23:05:02 p_l: I thought that as well, though wasn't sure if I was mis-remembering 23:05:29 did it have the start of a reference implementation or was it just at draft spec stage 23:05:41 -!- graspee [~graspee@02dd1c10.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: time for bed] 23:06:14 I'm not a big fan of McCLIM, but some of the underlying ideas are rather interesting. Unfortunately, the implementation leaves something to be desired, and the CLIM II spec is poorly explained and horribly broken in places. 23:06:41 nyef: was CLIM3 to clean up those issues? 23:08:27 My interpretation was that CLIM3 was to modernize the graphics architecture and to clean up issues surrounding sheets and output records by unifying the two concepts. 23:08:39 At least, beach's CLIM3 was. 23:09:45 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:17:28 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:19:00 with no real knowledge of CLIM, would it still be relevant with the current developments in touch screen interfaces? 23:20:13 Guthur: unrelated, I think 23:20:18 Is CLIM3 currently a proposition/set of ideas, or is there any code already? 23:20:34 Largely unrelated, I'd imagine. 23:20:40 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:20:55 -!- timor [~icke@port-92-195-95-182.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:21:20 The main contribution of CLIM-like systems is that they operate in the context of a REPL-style interaction, even though they have a graphic-interface component. 23:22:42 that sounds not so nice on small touch screens 23:23:01 Even on large touch screens it seems a bit odd. 23:23:20 Guthur: doesn't mean it locks you from making an UI that works 23:23:30 so "unrelated" means largely incompatible 23:23:37 presentations sound like something thta would be *great* for touch screens 23:23:39 Guthur: nope 23:23:46 p_l: yeah for some measure of work 23:24:01 ur5us [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 23:24:02 ur5us_ [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 23:24:10 but like I say I have no real knowledge of CLIM 23:24:31 Guthur: CLIM included in a way a far more mouse-intensive UI (while still having ability to work from keyboard) than most other stuff 23:24:44 Not at all, most of CLIM would work well enough, it's just the stuff based around the fancy I/O streams that would seem rather out-of-place. 23:25:55 *Guthur* has just quickloaded mcclim 23:26:10 I'll see what the demo looks like, if I can get it loaded 23:26:38 Good luck. 23:26:38 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:10 Try the listener thing, it's okay as long as you have something like slime running to handle errors. 23:28:25 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:29:57 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 23:31:26 -!- kilon [~kilon@195.74.247.174.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:06 ur5us__ [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 23:33:22 antonv [~user@93.125.49.66] has joined #lisp 23:33:56 -!- ur5us__ [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:30 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 23:34:42 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@md02c36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:34:46 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 23:35:11 Demosthenes [~demo@md02c36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:45 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@md02c36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:39:07 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:42:19 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-hudd6-0-0-cust741.4-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:43:46 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:46 -!- ur5us_ [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:44:27 mast` [~alex@unaffiliated/mast/x-9924406] has joined #lisp 23:49:44 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:50:40 jjc [~jjc@50.46.183.196] has joined #lisp 23:50:56 -!- jjc [~jjc@50.46.183.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:43 wws [~billstcla@p-68-237-141-176.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:59 -!- wws [wws@clozure-BE8D9819.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 23:54:15 jewel [~jewel@183.62.46.82] has joined #lisp 23:55:58 -!- rodent` [~user@99-130-100-63.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:57:22 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:58:46 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]