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01:32:08 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 01:34:21 -!- dmiles_akf [~dmiles@72.19.53.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:34:39 slyrus_: that would be fe[nl]ix http://fenlix.dreamwidth.org/2255.html 01:36:57 Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:35 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:19 helichopter [~austin@ool-4577ba80.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:59 -!- helichopter [~austin@ool-4577ba80.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 01:40:49 -!- ski_ [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:42:14 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:42:52 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 01:43:21 ah, great 01:43:26 fe[nl]ix: around? 01:45:49 yes 01:46:38 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.96.1] 01:47:06 so I'm just learning 5am, but there's one thing that seems odd 01:47:53 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:48:07 when I recompile a file (C-c C-k) with a def-fixture I get an error where a warning gets promoted to an error about redefining a function in deflookup-table 01:48:10 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@72.19.53.11] has joined #lisp 01:48:19 and shouldn't that be def-lookup-table? :) 01:49:41 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:50:24 I think that warning is bogus, I'll fix it tomorrow 01:50:30 or define-lookup-table for that matter... 01:50:32 ok, thanks! 01:50:46 the warning seems legit, but it shouldn't be an error 01:51:08 ah, yes 01:51:33 ASDF treats warnings as a compilation error 01:52:14 nope, you said C-c C-k 01:52:20 slime ? 01:52:56 and now that I've got a testing framework, all I need is a deployment framework, a CI framework, a non-emacs GUI (vim or eclipse preferably), maybe another testing framework or two, some crazy autodoc generator, and I'll be ready for clojure or the JVM! 01:53:00 :) 01:53:03 yes, slime 01:53:12 -!- felideon [~felideon@184.105.242.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:53:32 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:53:33 not sure who's promoting it to an error 01:53:45 deployment framework ? 01:54:03 it was a joke. maven, e.g. 01:54:12 for CI there's jenkins, I hear it's quite flexible 01:54:18 ah, lol 01:54:19 no, no, no! 01:54:21 :) 01:54:41 you speak out of experience with it ? 01:55:05 god forbid, no! I just like to make disparaging remarks about things I've never tried... 01:56:36 :D 02:02:08 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 02:02:14 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:38 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@72.19.53.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:02:46 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 02:04:18 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:04:40 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:05:33 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176342129.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 02:07:09 ski_ [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 02:07:27 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-67-189-240-148.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:07:38 -!- ASau [~user@176.14.176.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:57 ASau [~user@176.14.176.32] has joined #lisp 02:10:05 -!- KognizantKog 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[~nullman@static-64-61-115-26.isp.broadviewnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:41 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-20-172.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:20:43 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:20:43 -!- kpreid_ is now known as kpreid 03:22:14 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:31:18 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:32:07 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:33:53 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:58 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:42:06 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 03:46:24 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 03:47:06 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:48:16 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-222-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 03:49:38 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-222-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:54 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 04:04:11 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.134.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:04:12 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-173-66-213-19.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:14 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:05:31 -!- Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:13:23 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-187-216-209.lns3.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:16:15 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-183.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:16:56 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-170-203.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:17:14 slyrus_: jenkins, albeit ugly, is really pretty good if you're prepared to use something that works and does not require your hacking skills for that. 04:21:49 -!- springz [~springz@74.117.61.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:22:59 Jenkins is really quite nice, and you only need to see the Java (or some "Groovy" thing) if you need to hack Jenkins itself. which you don't. 04:23:05 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:23:07 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:27:31 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:38 -!- nullman [~nullman@static-64-61-115-26.isp.broadviewnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:37:12 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 04:43:38 -!- felideon [~felideon@184.170.255.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:44:05 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3375.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:55:04 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 04:59:21 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.154.85] has joined #lisp 05:00:19 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-173-66-213-19.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 05:01:04 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has left #lisp 05:02:06 yeah, yeah :) 05:03:04 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 05:05:01 -!- yk33 [~user@114.205.86.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:09:18 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:09:59 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-187-216-209.lns3.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:10:24 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:12:14 -!- hiyosi [~hiyosi@102.124.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:13:35 what's a good way to join pathnames? such as combine "images/" with "nature/bird.png" 05:14:02 And what would such a combination produce? 05:14:24 a pathname designator 05:14:46 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 05:14:49 A designator of what, though? 05:16:45 -!- Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:18:36 let me rephrase... I have a pathname designator representing a relative path "nature/bird.png", and want to convert it to the relative path "images/nature/bird.png" 05:19:19 -!- anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:20:23 such as python's os.path.join which "join one or more path componenets intelligently" 05:20:42 Extract the path components, concatenate, merge with the path. 05:21:57 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:22:19 path-directory, merge-pathnames. 05:22:58 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-39-227.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:07 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-vszdekkwoaqnabxw] has joined #lisp 05:23:15 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-vszdekkwoaqnabxw] has quit [Changing host] 05:23:15 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:23:16 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-39-227.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 05:24:52 felideon [~felideon@184.170.255.36] has joined #lisp 05:28:22 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-222-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 05:30:51 TimKack` [~user@c-2ec281ec-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 05:31:24 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec2160c-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:31:33 robot-beethoven: in that case, you could use (merge-pathnames #P"nature/bird.png" #P"images/") 05:33:35 anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #lisp 05:34:06 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-71.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:35:36 benny` [~benny@i577A19AC.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:36:17 -!- benny` is now known as benny 05:44:27 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:46:38 gko [~gko@220.228.255.204] has joined #lisp 05:48:25 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:49:00 teggi [~teggi@113.172.56.22] has joined #lisp 05:49:00 bobbysmith007 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[~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 07:17:59 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-225-93-170.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:18:08 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:21:13 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.202.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:24:45 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 07:25:03 -!- metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:25:31 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has joined #lisp 07:25:50 metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 07:31:24 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:31:57 dempa [~dempa@184-155-85-31.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:19 paul0 [~paul0@189.114.197.29.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 07:32:47 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:33:55 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34:25 -!- teggi_ [~teggi@113.172.56.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:34:26 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:35:52 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-32-148.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:17 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 07:36:53 is there any library like python itertools? That can permutate lists and these kind of operations 07:37:22 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:37:32 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c06af.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:59 just curious, I was learning some algorithms using python, and they used these libraries on the Udacity course 07:39:04 if you're taking an algorithm course, using Lisp lists instead of Python lists isn't going to work very well. 07:39:09 alexandria can permute lists 07:39:11 Python's list are extendable vectors. 07:40:17 I'm taking Udacity courses, cs212 07:40:53 I don't know if there is any pattern in these names, anyway, just wondering how I could do this kind of list/array permutation using CL 07:41:27 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has joined #lisp 07:42:05 well, there should be a way, but I was looking for a library that do the job, like itertools, found one algorithm in a stackoverflow question for that 07:42:20 alexandria can permute lists 07:42:35 although, itertools it concerned with iteration, not permuting vectors. 07:42:38 alexandria can also permute sequences 07:42:47 There must be something I'm missin. 07:44:05 ah, it also has stuff like combinations, permutations and unique. That'd be in alexandria. 07:44:07 itertools.permutations(list, [length]) gives me all possible combinations 07:44:54 (alexandria:map-permutations function list) 07:45:04 ... permutations returns combinations? Something's wrong here. 07:45:10 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:50 oh, I may used worng terminology, it's permutations 07:45:53 trying out alexandria 07:47:17 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-vtxlngvcfdjyfhep] has joined #lisp 07:48:37 what is this function parameter? 07:48:59 I mean, which function should i use? 07:49:11 whichever you like most 07:49:18 the one you want to map over permutations. 07:49:49 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:51:15 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 07:51:56 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 07:52:11 is there anything that speaks against defining a specific :around method for print-object specialized for a certain (condition) base class and print error location information from base-class slots in that method? 07:52:51 H4ns: doesn't compose well with print-unreadable-object 07:53:10 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@31.163.218.201] has joined #lisp 07:53:36 stassats`: true - not a requirement with my use of error reporting, though. 07:54:00 i'd use my own print-condition method, and then call it from print-object 07:54:00 stassats`: thanks 07:54:08 hm. 07:54:54 ok, that i can still do that if the :around method becomes a problem. 07:55:09 ur5us [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 07:58:16 H4ns: I don't think it's guaranteed that define-condition defines a new *class* 07:58:51 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 07:58:55 -!- metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:59:52 pkhuong: hm. that indeed is slightly bothersome. 08:01:20 gladly, all implementations that i'm interested use classes for conditions, so i'm leaving "conformant" land 08:01:50 jimmy_birer [~root@188.26.156.55] has joined #lisp 08:01:52 Hey guys 08:01:57 I just started learning lisp 08:02:00 in the next ansi standard, conditions should be regular clos instances!1 08:02:29 It feels like something inbetween a brain seizure and an orgasm 08:02:42 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:03:13 is that what you wanted to tell us? 08:03:20 thanks for that deep insight 08:03:27 np 08:03:56 why so many parantheses tho? 08:05:32 jimmy_birer: they are required. take that as an axiom for now and continue exploring. 08:05:32 Really? 08:05:43 H4ns: thanks. 08:09:03 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:11:02 -!- jimmy_birer [~root@188.26.156.55] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:14:06 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has joined #lisp 08:15:26 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has left #lisp 08:15:31 TimKack [~user@c-2ec232c4-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 08:15:44 easyE` [Ek2IkdACZk@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 08:16:05 So, which of you cowards banned me from #lisp? 08:16:23 *easyE`* is gonna burn something down you care about when I find your True Name. 08:16:45 easyE`: you may leave again. 08:17:04 H4ns: you take responsibility? 08:17:12 Say goodbye to your website. 08:17:15 easyE`: not at all. but i don't want your threats here. 08:17:27 So, please give me a name. 08:17:36 So, I may discuss rationally. 08:17:47 what is it today? an open day at a kindergarten? 08:18:00 easyE`: awesome. Please leave. 08:18:55 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.93] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 08:20:27 -!- spacebait [~spacebat@staff-250-045.wireless.adelaide.edu.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:22:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:22:29 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:22:37 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 08:22:47 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 08:24:04 hiyosi [~hiyosi@102.124.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 08:26:34 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:27:52 Xof [~crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:30:14 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-227-19.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:27 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.114.197.29.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 08:32:20 spacebait [~spacebat@150.101.97.47] has joined #lisp 08:32:31 teggi [~teggi@113.172.60.48] has joined #lisp 08:33:19 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-112-137.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:33:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-81-54.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 08:33:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-81-54.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 08:33:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:34:23 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.196.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:35:19 tfb [~tfb@92.40.200.81.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:35:25 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 08:36:48 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:38:15 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:42:01 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 08:43:32 nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-13-181.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:44:24 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 08:46:21 kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-36.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:52:31 -!- prip [~foo@kimochi.ath.cx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:52 prip [~foo@host149-124-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:06:03 'morning 09:09:20 mucker [~mucker@183.83.33.212] has joined #lisp 09:10:11 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@31.163.218.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:12:22 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.60.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:13:26 paul0 [~paul0@189.114.197.29.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 09:13:33 -!- dca [~user@128-69-104-23.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:13:50 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host49-216-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:14:26 -!- dempa [~dempa@184-155-85-31.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:20:18 dumb question, what is the advantage of code as text(tcl) and code as list-tree(lisp) > 09:20:35 Sbidicuda [~antani@host49-216-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:22:23 s/and/to/ 09:22:58 mucker: easier to mess structure up. "34. The string is a stark data structure and everywhere it is passed there is much duplication of process. It is a perfect vehicle for hiding information." - Perlis 09:23:34 then there's the possibility of more free-form syntax (don't know if tcl takes advantage of that) 09:24:18 you couldn't pull off something like Perl post-conditions in lisp, but you probably can in tcl 09:24:24 cmm: no, tcl has a sort of prefixy syntax like lisp 09:24:29 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-yvunvvpspionfhkt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:24:38 cmm: to a certain extent. IIRC, comments are implemented with ~ macros (hilarity ensues when nested constructs are commented out) 09:25:21 heh 09:25:29 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.93] has joined #lisp 09:26:50 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 09:29:23 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-216.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:29:44 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:29:58 Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has joined #lisp 09:30:09 for my money, a good language is something that is competently-specified, performant, compatible with itself over time, and has a thriving community. after that there are matters of taste. I don't see why one would even _think_ about languages that don't qualify, unless one is forced to use them. but in such case it's pointless to rationalize and make comparisons :) 09:30:41 -!- Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has left #lisp 09:31:19 amen 09:32:00 (and yes, that leaves us with Lisp, Haskell and a bunch of established boring languages. that's adult life for you) 09:32:07 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:32:26 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 09:32:51 {S,Oca}ML (: 09:32:53 http://antirez.com/articoli/tclmisunderstood.html -- good read 09:33:27 ocaml isn't nearly as lively as I'd like 09:33:42 even CL has far better practical win32 support 09:33:52 cmm: then there's the bootstrap the community problem, right? 09:34:54 peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 09:35:00 dim: bootstrap ! 09:35:03 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Client Quit] 09:35:11 big problem 09:35:40 cmm: would Erlang qualify to you? 09:35:56 *cmm* wonders why his attempts to preclude a boring off-topic discussions always start one instead 09:36:03 hehe 09:36:37 you can't seriously think that offering a final position on any subject isn't an opening? 09:37:14 dim: that's why there are moderators! 09:37:30 ,guards! 09:37:42 "seize him" would have said fsbot :) 09:41:34 *mucker* has an on and off love affair with lisp 09:41:49 -!- TDJACR [~TDJACR@unaffiliated/tdjacr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:50 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:43:05 recently I have using this simple feature in vim(heresy!) ... which is basically highlighting spaces to red. It makes lisp code sooooo much easier to read. 09:46:33 sounds like whitespace mode 09:47:08 http://emacswiki.org/emacs/WhiteSpace if you wanted to have same in Emacs 09:51:46 *phadthai* wonders how such a feature can be considered to make code more readable :) 09:52:57 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.200.81.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:53:33 tfb [~tfb@92.40.101.198.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:54:23 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:08 mucker: with code as sexp, you don't risk sql-injection -like problems. 09:56:12 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec232c4-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:30 mucker: this is a big disadvantage: you cannot write any PhD thesis or research paper about how to avoid sql-injection with lisp. 09:56:52 cmm: post-conditions are OK if you can accept a little extra syntax (I can't really, but anyway) 09:56:59 TimKack [~user@c-2ec232c4-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 09:57:44 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-107-070-194.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:40 pjb: with postgresql, just use pgQueryParams (it's in the protocol too) and be done, too, whatever the language... 09:58:49 cmm: see ie http://paste.lisp.org/display/129304 09:58:58 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.33.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:59:06 am0c [~am0c@14.37.206.120] has joined #lisp 09:59:30 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec232c4-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01:16 mucker [~mucker@202.65.155.202] has joined #lisp 10:02:19 TimKack [~user@c-2ec232c4-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 10:04:26 Posterdati [~tapioca@host49-216-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:05:15 bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 10:05:19 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:05:28 tfb: i usually read code from left to rigt 10:05:36 tfb: since reader macros are outside the pure lispy "code is sexps" paradigm, that's cheating. :) 10:06:12 cmm: yes, of course. CL is about cheating :-) 10:06:20 fair point 10:07:19 stassats: yes, that's why post-conditions are so nice. If you read left-to-right what you see is "do something" in big letters and then in small print "unless this obscure condition holds". 10:07:53 The whole reason why I like them in Perl is that it lets you put the important stuff at the left end of the line 10:08:18 hi 10:11:17 tfb: no, that's exactly why they're not nice 10:12:00 +1 10:13:03 [ may warn you that's something out of ordinary to come, but i don't really notice punctuation much 10:13:16 looks like DWIM. 10:13:43 mikaelj: no, it's perfectly well-defined 10:14:27 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 10:14:31 cmm, indeed it is. but I said it _looks_ like DWIM. 10:14:42 cmm: what i mean is perfectly well defined too! 10:14:49 and how does DWIM look? 10:14:53 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:14:57 [] for example around forms. 10:15:06 in particular ] to end all )s 10:15:15 ah 10:16:11 stassats: not they;re not nice in lisp, I agree, because they don't fit well into the syntax - the squre brackety thing is a hack and I'd never use it really 10:16:19 but in Perl, where they do fit, I like them a lot 10:16:46 it wastes my time to read something that might not happen because of a condition at the end. 10:16:47 well, the name "Perl" warns you pretty well, "something out of ordinary is to come" 10:17:21 and "Lisp" doesn't? 10:17:29 nope 10:17:41 -!- bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:18:03 OK, I give up then, this is not a discussion worth having 10:18:11 indeed 10:18:25 yay, we have an agreement in #lisp 10:18:52 *jdz* now expects someone to chime in with a disagreement 10:19:10 jdz: an agreement for disagreement 10:19:35 don't you usually get what you expect in Lisp, though? 10:19:58 -!- am0c [~am0c@14.37.206.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:05 mikaelj: one may not know lisp and have wrong expectations 10:20:06 yes, we always do. and when we don't, we alter our expectations. 10:20:08 I do, but people who don't know Lisp don't, at all 10:20:27 which was my point 10:20:37 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 10:20:42 it's just as far from the mainstream as perl 10:20:54 in a related direction, even 10:21:11 as they're both languages which are interested in language 10:21:25 harish [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 10:21:41 uh, what? 10:24:13 they're both langages (Lisp more so than Perl) in which you can think a lot about what the language you're using to program should be like. Very few other languages do that. 10:24:33 In what way is Perl programmable like Lisp? 10:26:04 mikaelj: have a look at perligata. 10:26:41 I am not sure it is (though there seems to be amazing hair you can do, and perl 6 has lisp-style macros I think), which is why I said lisp was much further along than Perl. But it does support an enormously wider range of ways of expressing things than (say) Java. 10:27:09 (or other algoloid language) 10:27:51 TimKack` [~user@c-2ec210de-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 10:28:17 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:28:23 pjb, heh 10:30:08 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-8-125.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:30:35 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec232c4-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:32:51 Odin- [~sbkhh@214-106-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is] has joined #lisp 10:34:33 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:34:38 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:44:21 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:46:38 -!- TimKack` [~user@c-2ec210de-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:47:38 I think we need a dead poets society for programmers /keeping the hipsters out/ :P 10:47:47 Joreji [~thomas@94-177.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 10:48:25 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-187-216-209.lns3.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:49:46 Arthur [8a60c772@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.96.199.114] has joined #lisp 10:49:53 Dead Programmer Society. We can begin to start it indeed. McCarthy, Dijkstra, Richie, 10:50:12 -!- Arthur is now known as Guest88234 10:50:21 Von Neuman 10:50:32 Ada Lovelace would be the first. 10:50:38 :) 10:52:13 Curious, How code did McCarthy write ? 10:52:17 *much 10:52:20 we can github it 10:52:52 http://themagiclab.org/projectjmc 10:53:21 Wonderful ! 10:53:58 He was a searcher, so he mainly wrote lisp code to support his experiments and research papers. 10:54:10 Or prototypes, such as the first time sharing system. 10:54:22 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 10:54:37 ur5us [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 10:54:53 But I agree that it would be nice to collect all his code in a tarball. 10:55:15 (a lot of them is/was on punch cards, I'd guess). 10:55:27 And Richie's 10:56:13 Richie's mostly available. The various old unix versions. 10:56:28 When I read Computer History ... sometimes, It's just mind-boggling ! 10:57:06 These people had *patience* 10:57:24 and I ADHD :P 10:58:47 How about Conway and Turing? 10:59:04 Them two's 10:59:26 I mean, is there any code floating around, written by them? 10:59:59 let's concentrate on writing new cool code 10:59:59 No, I guess. Unless we consider mathematics as a programming language 11:01:08 They wrote cool code before code was considered "cool" 11:01:26 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 11:01:32 reddit comments to "Common Lisp: The Untold Story" are... quite strange 11:02:37 Ada Lovelace's Bernouilli program: http://www.computerhistory.org/babbage/adalovelace/img/5-7-2.jpg 11:02:56 Too bad the resolution is not good enough. 11:03:40 stassats: reddit is strange. 11:03:50 -!- fukushima [~fukushima@z128.124-44-151.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:03:55 you mean people are strange? 11:04:02 No, Reddit is strange. 11:04:09 I'd explain further, but I don't want to get kickbanned. 11:04:19 : 11:04:20 p 11:04:38 it's easy, reddit is strange because people are strange 11:04:54 -!- gko [~gko@220.228.255.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:05:17 geeks are strange 11:05:24 Granted, it's hard to generalize about such a large group. 11:05:28 too many disagreements 11:05:41 and other people agree more? 11:05:55 normfags agree more, definitely 11:06:04 fukushima [~fukushima@z128.124-44-151.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:10:37 Three geeks walk into a bar. They were kickbanned for asking diluted C2H5OH. 11:10:55 They should try #lispcafe. 11:15:27 -!- PissedNu1lock is now known as PissedNumlock 11:16:29 given clhs 2.3.1.1/potential numbers i guess not, but would treating "10%" as a number be conforming? i.e. as 1/10 or 0.1 11:16:57 clhs 2.3.1.1 11:16:57 Potential Numbers as Tokens: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_caa.htm 11:18:57 because "%" is no letter/number marker, so rule 1 isn't satisfied 11:19:44 right, so, no, it won't be conforming 11:19:47 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 11:20:02 I think the spec could be amended to allow more extension characters 11:20:42 dlowe: we have no procedure for this. 11:20:53 dlowe: that will break backwards compatibility 11:21:18 yeah, i don't even have a real use case, since you could always use one of the alternatives 11:21:31 Amending a spec is simple, you need to make implementors to implement your CL version instead of the old one. 11:21:51 naryl: we have a procedure for this 11:21:58 o.O 11:22:08 minion: cdr? 11:22:08 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 11:22:09 cdr: The Common Lisp Document Repository is hosted at http://cdr.eurolisp.org. http://www.cliki.net/cdr 11:23:25 making 10% read as 1/10 doesn't have anything to do with potential numbers, imo 11:23:31 just a readmacro 11:23:35 hm... I should try sending the package-local-nicknames. :) 11:23:51 nikodemus: readmacro for % and 10 is the numeric prefix? 11:23:52 nikodemus: readermacro can't read backwards 11:23:54 potential numbers have to do with new subtypes of NUMBER 11:24:17 stassats: you add a readmacro on digits 11:24:35 that doesn't seem right 11:24:38 there's one package that does pretty neat stuff with that. UNITS, iirc 11:24:50 stassats: I had a readmacro on letter d. It worked :P 11:24:50 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:24:58 ferada: that would be #10% 11:25:07 naryl: i didn't say that it won't work 11:25:14 like d3d6 => (make-dice :count 3 :sides 6) 11:25:22 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:25:32 nikodemus: and about subtypes, i don't get it, what type 10^2 would have? 11:25:39 just requires a bit of care, nothing deeply wrong about it, as long as you do it in your own readtable 11:26:38 stassats: oh, interesting 11:26:49 i misremembered what they were about 11:26:50 i take that back 11:26:50 or 10_000 11:27:01 we should implement some, i think :) 11:27:14 10_000 would be cool 11:27:26 it gets tiresome to count those zeros 11:27:27 stassats: CDR should get more attention. I can't find a single mention on implementations' pages while every Scheme implementation has a list of implemented SRFIs somewhere. 11:27:27 12/25/83 --> integer representing the universal time :) 11:27:50 naryl: CDR isn't same as SRFI 11:28:18 I noticed. But it still doesn't help that it's not linked from anywhere. 11:28:46 it's linked from #lisp 11:29:20 Why are you hiding it from search engines? 11:29:29 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 11:29:33 bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 11:29:33 (e.g.) 11:29:34 -!- bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has quit [Client Quit] 11:29:42 bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 11:31:01 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-32-148.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:31:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.196.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:31:44 no, wait, i was partially right 11:31:48 see: -3/4+6.7J 11:32:15 that's not just a regular old number 11:32:17 TimKack [~user@c-2ec2146d-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 11:32:34 it can be 11:33:54 surely eg. 1.7J is a number with a unit? 11:35:05 we should have potential number representation for nans and infinities as well 11:36:13 Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 11:37:02 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-108-051.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:42 -!- kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50:39 potnum for nans and infinities: I have a really nice notation 11:50:39 Xof, memo from gigamonkey: http://www.r-bloggers.com/the-best-statistical-programming-language-is-%E2%80%A6javascript/ 11:50:45 I even implemented it once somewhere, but it's easy 11:50:55 minion never forgets 11:50:56 Infinities are 1.0/0.0 and -1.0/0.0 11:51:18 generic NaN is 0.0/0.0, with some kind of twiddle for specific bit patterns 11:52:04 and on input other possibilities (e.g. 2.0/0.0) also work, with float contagion (2.0/0.0d0 => double-float-positive-infinity) 11:53:25 -!- hiyosi [~hiyosi@102.124.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:10 dnolen [~user@cpe-69-203-204-197.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:01:55 -!- Guest88234 [8a60c772@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.96.199.114] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:02:17 hiyosi [~hiyosi@102.124.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:02:40 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:05:15 -!- bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05:30 bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 12:05:31 -!- bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has quit [Client Quit] 12:06:57 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:38 Why do you need float notation for Nan? 0/0 1/0 -1/0 24332423/0 etc should be good. 12:09:59 24332423/0d0 ok. 12:10:44 NaN can be used to tag integer values, or random bit patterns, so it may be better to keep those integer values in the notation. 12:11:13 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-187-216-209.lns3.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:11:16 -!- mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:11:25 -!- mucker [~mucker@202.65.155.202] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:13:50 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:18:42 -!- Xof [~crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:19:24 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-69-203-204-197.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:20:31 ok I need sbcl experts 12:21:25 can the following be somehow happening... I have (let* ((blah (get-some-c++-obj)) (stuff (get-stuff-from-blah blah) ....))) 12:21:45 the get-some-c++-obj, makes a CLOS instance, sticks it in weak hash table, and also returns the instance 12:22:18 it appears that if GC happens inside of (get-stuff-from-blah), the "blah" gets gc'ed (coz I print stuff from its finalizer) 12:22:36 how can it get gc'ed, if reference to it is on the stack? 12:22:41 maxm: if you don't use blah in the rest of the code, sure. 12:23:16 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:32 hmm in fact I don't, but I use it in (get-stuff-from-blah).. Which actually allocates 8k on the stack (the return array), and then it calls foreign function passing blah to it 12:23:59 if get-stuff-from-blah doesn't reference blah anymore, it may get GCed. 12:24:19 now that I think to it, its like this (with-alien ((s (struct _shared_ptr))) ... fill in slots from blah ... (with-alien ((local 8k array))) (get-stuff-from-blah s)) 12:24:40 hmm how can i get around this? 12:24:44 magnificrab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has joined #lisp 12:24:56 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 12:25:02 i'm 99% close to having nice lisp/c++ GC without doing any manual freeing 12:25:15 around what? Objects that aren't references may get GCed. 12:26:04 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-222-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:09 around as in "keep the ref until end of the call, without having sbcl optimize it out" 12:26:16 ngz [~user@103.69.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:22 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 12:26:29 use the reference if you it! 12:26:50 maybe I should investigate :in/:out thing from alien interface, rather then filling px/py slots manually from lisp side object 12:27:00 If you don't need the object, why do you not want it to be released? 12:27:30 coz I'm call to get data from the object is not yet done 12:27:35 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.134.66] has joined #lisp 12:28:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-177.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:29:24 You're abusing references to solve a synchronisation problem. 12:29:31 code goes like this: 1. Allocate _shared_ptr alien on stack 2. Copy lisp obj blah slots px and py to it 3. Call c++ function with alien allocated at 1. At this point if GC happens after 2. but before 3, GC collects the object I'm about to call, which is destroyed on C++ side, coz it has finalizer 12:30:27 its all in the same thread, so there is no synchronization.. i need to somehow keep a ref to the original object doing the call.. All calls are done with macro anyway, so if I find a fix, it will fix all of it 12:30:59 synchronisation issues happen with interrupts as well (if not more so) as with threads. 12:31:36 with-pinned-objects will do the trick cheaply on x86oids, and not so efficiently elsewhere. 12:31:40 ha, I'll just make each function return the original object 12:32:11 then one day it'll be declaimed inline and you'll wonder why things stopped working. 12:32:16 ah thanks for with-pinned-objects, I have no plans to switch to anything else soon 12:32:57 imho its worth it to avoid manual freeing, as keeping stuff of what I need to free kind of what pisses me off about commonqt 12:33:10 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:34:01 with-foo handle most of these cases for me. 12:34:22 and aren't dependent on the frequency of GCs. 12:38:34 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:39:15 Joreji [~thomas@94-177.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:41:50 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:43:20 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:49 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.134.66] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:45:40 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 12:46:33 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 12:47:29 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:00 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 12:50:02 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-222-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 12:50:43 springz [~springz@124.160.188.139] has joined #lisp 12:53:38 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec2146d-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:54:13 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:00:41 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 13:05:07 -!- Guest76373 is now known as profmakx 13:05:15 -!- profmakx [~profmakx@2a01:4f8:150:3181:2::20] has quit [Changing host] 13:05:15 profmakx [~profmakx@unaffiliated/profmakx] has joined #lisp 13:05:41 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:05:47 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:05:52 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:07:35 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 13:09:09 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:09:35 sammi` [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-irtfvpscwrcojkmm] has joined #lisp 13:09:46 pkhuong: with-pinned-objects supposed to return all the values right? 13:09:51 it uses multiple-value-prog1 13:09:58 seems to only return 1st value for me 13:10:04 gonna try to reduce to test case 13:10:43 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 13:14:55 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-36.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:15:20 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.202.192] has joined #lisp 13:16:04 dnolen_ [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:14 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:17:59 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:18:08 -!- dnolen_ [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:18:23 reproduced, with-pinned-objects with any with-alien inside, returns only 1st value 13:18:55 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:22 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-13-181.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:19:42 ENOREPRDOCUE 13:19:50 just a sec I'll paste 13:22:25 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has left #lisp 13:22:58 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-108-051.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 13:24:50 ok false alarm, my bug :-) 13:24:51 is hemlock compatible with emacs, ie. can I use vim-mode in hemlock 13:24:57 no 13:25:31 forgot to remove values from around ,@body after switching to the pinned objects thing 13:25:35 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 13:26:02 I can pretty much simulate pinned objects by just actually setfing something in my lisp side structure 13:26:12 for non-x86 that is, if I ever have to do it 13:26:57 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 13:28:16 maxm: You know that threaded non-x86 SBCL ports have working with-pinned-objects, right? 13:28:17 so there's no vim keybindings setup for hemlock, right? 13:28:26 which hemlock? 13:28:43 the one you must drink for being a vim user. 13:28:45 nyef: no, had no idea..Good to know 13:29:00 (You know that the only threaded non-x86oid SBCL port is PPC, right?) 13:29:08 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 13:29:41 all tests pass, now running tests in the loop intermixed with artificial consing and gc :full t to see if it fixed it 13:29:42 stassats`: the emacs-in-common-lisp hemlock 13:29:55 which emacs-in-common-lisp hemlock? 13:30:28 We could also say that all gencgc-based SBCL ports support with-pinned-objects, because that's also just x86, x86-64, and PPC... And if you build PPC/cheneygc, you don't get with-pinned-objects... 13:30:43 lispworks hemlock, clozure hemlock, cmucl hemlock, phemlock, lichtblau's hemlock? 13:31:28 the answer would probably be "no" to either of those 13:31:29 ... Sherlock hemlock? 13:34:10 stassats`: well, let's start with the one in ql. 13:34:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:35:05 no, it doesn't, why would anyone want to? 13:35:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:37:02 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 13:37:39 oh, bummer, slime inspector doesn't know about deftyped or any other types 13:37:57 antonv [2e35c32a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.42] has joined #lisp 13:38:16 -!- antonv [2e35c32a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.42] has quit [Client Quit] 13:39:21 antonv [2e35c32a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.42] has joined #lisp 13:39:29 to get sane keybindings? 13:39:54 nullman [~nullman@74.113.164.130] has joined #lisp 13:39:54 "sane" 13:41:08 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has joined #lisp 13:41:11 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:42:42 -!- magnificrab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:43:02 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:43:38 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.93] has joined #lisp 13:44:00 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.93] has quit [Client Quit] 13:44:13 TimKack [~user@c-2ec22689-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 13:45:58 dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:36 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128102209.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 13:49:47 magnificrab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:44 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:53:08 -!- Lazik [~Lazik@unaffiliated/lazik] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:53:19 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:56:00 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:48 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@mobile-166-147-096-074.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:08 iLogical [~iLogical@177.96.179.81] has joined #lisp 13:58:16 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-vtxlngvcfdjyfhep] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:59 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:01:06 Two weeks ago or so, someone here (crhodes?) mentioned using (COMPILE ...) as part of a solution to dealing with different pixel formats. 14:01:15 :-) 14:01:20 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 14:01:39 At the time, I couldn't see how to really work it without tons of macros. 14:01:59 Skola [~Skola@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 14:02:15 This morning, I've already hit two totally different things I want to work on. 14:02:37 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:02:40 (COMPILE ...) is the right answer to both. 14:02:41 ;) 14:02:55 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:02:58 that was probably me. 14:03:08 patrickwonders: compile is totally optional. You can use (coerce `(lambda ) 'function) or just (eval `(lambda )) 14:03:29 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:03:31 pkhuong: Yes. It was you. 14:03:38 compile compiles. coerce may or may not compile. eval would not compile (unless it doesn't have an interpreter). 14:03:55 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.196.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 14:03:59 macros are just a nice way to generate sexps. You can also do it directly with a regular function if it's more convenient (I find it often is, for non-trivial transformations). 14:04:06 what about defun or flet or labels? 14:04:27 added type inspection for sbcl 14:04:34 Kryztof [~user@158.223.59.95] has joined #lisp 14:05:14 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:05:58 pkhuong: In one case, I'd still expect to use backquoted forms for many of the s-exprs, but not as much for all of them. 14:07:30 of course; backquote is a very nice way to generate lists. 14:08:38 First application from this morning: taking an epsilon-NFA for a regular language, massaging it into a DFA, and turning that into (ECASE ...) sorts of blocks. 14:09:19 patrickwonders: eh? a DFA would be more directly compiled into TAGBODY/GO or LABELS. 14:09:25 Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 14:09:49 ah, you mean ECASE for the dispatch. 14:11:08 Second application: digging back up my n-dimensional raytracer and turning it inside out... turn scene into a function rather than have functions that pick through scenes. 14:11:29 ah yes :) That's a really neat one. 14:11:56 Neither application is so critical or novel that I expect to be able to make time to actually do... But, maybe someday... 14:12:02 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:12:26 Anyhow... Thanks for planting that seed pkhuong ... 14:12:45 fucking slime cvs 80 lines limit, i have to correct all the code that has been written before me 14:14:13 stassats`: I'm not experienced with Qt, unfortunately. But, AFAICT, I have to keep a global qapplication in CommonQt, right? 14:14:44 you don't have to 14:16:21 stassats`: Right. I don't know why I thought I had. 14:19:10 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 14:19:25 stassats`: Would this be a right way to do it? 14:20:07 sounds alright 14:20:12 Nice. 14:20:30 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:20:55 except, use qt:ensure-qapplication to get rid of this warning 14:22:02 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.93] has joined #lisp 14:22:26 stassats`: Cool. Yeah, that's better. Thanks. 14:22:38 having qapplication in a global variable is useful, because you can create only one application, but from some time make-qapplication detects that there was already one instantiated and returns it from qt 14:22:42 before that it just crashed 14:22:55 having it in a variable might me marginally faster 14:22:58 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 14:23:24 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@mobile-166-147-096-074.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:25:08 stassats`: I see. 14:25:29 but you won't notice unless you do it millions of times at a time 14:25:43 Nah, I plan to do it only once. 14:25:56 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:26:10 correction, thousands of times 14:26:41 Still three orders of magnitude. :^) 14:33:26 ok, my problems were actually self-induced.. pinned objects thing did not fixed it, apparently what was happenning is that for callbacks, I'm passing objects back a const shared_ptr &ref, but on lisp side I'm treating them as if they were non-const, and calling to decrement refcount if they existed on lisp side 14:33:40 which is wrong, since passing const shared_ptr's around does not change refcounts 14:33:55 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-244.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:36 what? that's false. 14:35:58 the problem is that you're passing references to shared_ptrs. 14:36:25 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 14:36:31 The problem is that you're trying to talk to C++. d-: 14:36:36 reference is just a pointer.. But on C++ side, you can have both const and non-const copy-constructor 14:36:47 kpreid [~kpreid@brad-laptop.wlan.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 14:36:52 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:37:01 which shared_ptr uses, to refcount in non-const case, but it does not touch refcount on non-const case 14:37:03 mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:37:46 maxm: no, the reference is a pointer to a shared_ptr. That's madness. shared_ptr are meant to be passed by value, like regular pointers. 14:37:58 thus if you call foo(const shared_ptr &), the refcounts don't change doing the call, but if you call foo(shared_ptr &) with an object, it will increment refcount, call function, then decrement it. 14:38:10 maxm: no it won't. Try it. 14:38:34 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:38:36 its absolutely fine to pass shared_ptrs by const reference or assign them by reference 14:38:40 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:38:47 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 14:39:03 finally rehauled swank-fancy-inspector.lisp's indention, now you can get useful information about types http://common-lisp.net/~sboukarev/inspect-type.png 14:39:04 and people say C++ is performance oriented. 14:39:10 passing shared_ptr by const reference simply passes the pointer 14:39:23 Oh well, you're certainly right maxm, there's a n operator that's called when references to objects are copied. 14:40:06 c++ is great :-) 14:40:24 well it all resolves to surprisinly nice code with high optimization levels 14:40:38 sorry, I forgot the sarcasm smiley. 14:40:48 S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has joined #lisp 14:41:10 "c++ is great". I think this is the first time I saw "c++" and "great" in the same sentence. 14:41:34 If you still want to chase that goose, have fun doing it elsewhere. 14:41:53 yes what i said above about calling with non-const ref is incorrect, what I meant is if you call with a shared_ptr non-const ref, used to pass back the return value 14:42:16 the assignment "ref = whatever" inside the function will increment the refcount 14:42:37 of course. It's calling the refered value's oeprator=. 14:42:40 -!- cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:50 didi: c++ is great. 14:42:56 now you've seen it twice. ;) 14:42:59 :^) 14:43:05 didi: my subset of C++ is nice. 14:43:13 Maybe "c++ is a necessary evil". 14:43:19 "c++ is a great disappointment" 14:43:23 c++ is great¿ 14:43:30 kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-177-28.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:43:37 c++ is not discussed here 14:43:54 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:43:56 commonc++ 14:43:57 I am okay with that. 14:44:09 its just I was reusing same code for "pickup the new or maybe cached value returned via assignemnt" vs "pickup the const reference" on lisp side, which needs to be different, because in 1st case, lisp receives object with refcount incremented, and in the 2nd case not 14:44:22 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 14:44:32 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-222-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:45 didi: There is no such thing as a ``necessary evil''. If something is necessary then it is not evil, it simply is. 14:45:13 there are lesser evils, though. 14:46:14 nyef: I don't think I understood it, but that's OK. 14:46:15 *maxm* sees nothing specifically esoteric with what he's doing, in fact commonqt/smoke go much farther 14:50:36 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0/20120501201020]] 14:51:41 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:57:08 -!- Sbidicuda [~antani@host49-216-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:00 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@91-67-230-210-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:58:27 -!- Levenson [~Levenson@office-gw.skytel.spb.ru] has left #lisp 15:03:19 -!- Skola [~Skola@89.184.179.185] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:04:38 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 15:07:46 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:50 saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA1134.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:09:10 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:15 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.213] has joined #lisp 15:14:53 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:17:08 well test suite looped for 20 minutes, no problems and not a single object leaked after gc :full t 15:19:08 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:19:28 -!- antifuchs [foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:21:19 antifuchs [foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:12 -!- dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:07 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@177.96.179.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:28:18 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 15:31:28 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-71.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:31:44 dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:59 kanru` [~user@61-228-148-105.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:43 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:45:48 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:12 huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has joined #lisp 15:50:51 -!- antonv [2e35c32a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:51:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:52:39 Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-81-54.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 15:54:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-81-54.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 15:54:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:59:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:59:54 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-107-070-194.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:02 Is there a way to use the symbol `push' to denote a method? 16:00:40 intern it in a different package? 16:00:41 use it from a package other than cl 16:00:52 didi: no. You can use a different symbol than cm:push whose name is also push. 16:00:56 *cl:push 16:03:29 Hum. So I can't define a method called `push' if in my package I (:use cl)? 16:03:43 #:cl, even. 16:03:54 you could shadow push 16:04:04 Oh, right. 16:05:25 you could also use mypackage:push, maybe with a package nickname mp:push 16:05:34 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:05:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:06:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:07:07 dim: Even while defining it? Because if I try to compile something like (defmethod push ...) sbcl complains. Even more while defgenerici 16:07:13 defgenericing it. 16:07:32 duno, worth a try, from what I understand it should do the trick 16:07:35 you can't do it if push is cl:push 16:07:46 but I don't understand much yet here :) 16:08:14 stassats: is the CL package somwhow magic to the reader? 16:08:15 if you import symbols from CL, your myfoo::push _is_ cl::push, unless you shadow 16:08:30 didi: yes, (defmethod mp:push ...) should work 16:08:30 dim: it has nothing to do with the reader 16:08:47 ok now I'm confused 16:08:47 (given that you shadow it, etc) 16:09:17 _must_ it be exacly called "push"? 16:09:34 Phoodus: It's just a great name to a stack operation. 16:09:55 But it's not a problem. Just messing around. 16:10:35 I guess push-stack is free :) 16:11:02 dim: Well, the think is not exactly a stack. :^) 16:11:07 dim: not a great name 16:11:08 s/think/thing 16:11:27 didi: what about "put"? 16:11:36 stassats: That's nice. 16:11:50 propel 16:12:27 I think I'll go with `put'. Nice. 16:12:29 Thank you people. 16:12:38 or insert 16:13:04 Also nice. But it somehow reminds me of a postion. 16:13:25 "Insert at ..." 16:14:38 ... the beginning 16:14:45 :^) 16:17:08 unpop ;) 16:17:59 Phoodus: and unpush? 16:19:20 -!- mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:25:09 -!- manahino [~manahino@softbank126108006128.bbtec.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:08 perl has push, pop, shift & unshift ... 16:30:50 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:31:08 Can anyone suggest what they would do if they wanted FLOAT-BITVECTOR and BITVECTOR-FLOAT functions? 16:31:42 i would figure out what they mean 16:32:07 convert a float to a bit vector, vice versa 16:32:27 for what purpose? 16:32:31 m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.0] has joined #lisp 16:33:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:31 for the purpose of constructing a new float based off of some form of binary of the old floats. The ultimate purpose is for a genetic "mating" operation. 16:33:38 i would go "hey, why the heck do i need bit-vectors for? integers are enough, fetch ieee-floats" 16:33:44 minion: ieee-floats? 16:33:45 ieee-floats: IEEE-Floats provides a way of converting values of type float and double-float to and from their binary format representation as defined by IEEE 754 (which is commonly used by processors and network protocols). http://www.cliki.net/ieee-floats 16:35:44 Sure, that's good. Thanks, I'll check it out. 16:36:55 -!- Kryztof [~user@158.223.59.95] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:36:58 -!- xristos [~x@research.suspicious.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:43:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:43:41 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has quit [Quit: #WeeChat #Mises #emacs] 16:46:09 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 16:46:38 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:47:04 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 16:47:20 bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 16:49:07 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-043-179.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:20 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 16:57:39 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:58:17 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:00:30 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-173-66-213-19.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:06 -!- Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:02:53 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:50 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.101.198.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:04:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-177.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:05:29 ikki [~ikki@189.247.220.19] has joined #lisp 17:06:04 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:42 -!- ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:07:41 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 17:08:28 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-227-19.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 17:08:43 Quadrescence: integer-decode-float provides all the bits you need. 17:08:52 hmm... when did the clim-listener break? 17:08:53 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-227-19.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:58 slyrus_: in what way? 17:11:50 *slyrus_* feels like his personal debugger has hit maximum error depth (with multiple different errors of course) 17:12:10 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:12:24 (asdf:load-system 'clim-listener) says: There is no class named CLIM-LISTENER::TEXT/X-LISP-SYSTEM. 17:13:06 i'm not sure i have latest everything, but latest mcclim, and clim-listener works 17:13:25 grumble grumble 17:14:58 ah, there we go. asdf.lisp (great name, thanks) needs to depend-on file-types.lisp 17:15:08 i think it was working for you by accident 17:17:41 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 17:21:26 Has anyone written an SBCL/CCL application that uses tens or hundreds of thousands of threads? 17:21:36 on commodity hardware? 17:22:35 native threads? doesn't seem likely 17:23:06 I have an sbcl app that has about 10 17:23:23 Fade: 10 thousands? 17:23:28 no, just 10 17:23:33 lol 17:23:36 :) 17:23:49 hey, 10 is enough. 17:23:58 on a 10 core Xeon? 17:23:58 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:18 it's hosted on a 24 processor opteron box. 17:25:25 sykopomp: I use tens, for computation (SBCL/linux/x86-64) 17:25:30 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-244.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 17:26:10 sykopomp: tens of thousands will likely get into issues with address space (: 17:26:35 ... and kernel limits 17:27:20 Will pthreads ever be good enough to make M:N threading unnecessary? :( 17:27:24 -!- Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:27:41 it rarely makes sense to run significantly more threads than available cores 17:27:49 sykopomp: it is unnecessary. And the kernel people will tell you to just write a state machine already if it isn't. 17:28:10 It's more about wanting to write code in aa certain style. 17:28:33 the answer is green threads, distributed over a few pthreads (or some other, OS-level threads) 17:28:43 yes, M:N threads. 17:28:53 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@brad-laptop.wlan.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Offline] 17:28:58 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-71.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:29:02 erlang isn't a terrible experience. 17:29:08 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:29:11 but alas, there's no Lisp that supports them and no interest to change that from implementors. 17:29:11 it's even vaguely lispy. 17:29:19 sykopomp: cmucl! 17:29:21 is this accurate?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactive_theorem_proving 17:29:23 Erlang is... kind of a pain. 17:29:24 although that opens another box of problems ... priorities, latency, scheduling, fairness... 17:29:26 for acl2 17:29:41 stassats: just has green threads, no? 17:29:43 sykopomp: why not? 17:29:47 sykopomp: well one could write a pthreads implementation that transparently does M:N threads 17:29:52 I know many developers with enough experience with all sorts of concurrency mechanism that consider M:N threading the worst of both worlds: if you're going to write your own scheduler, might as well make the system cooperative to make race conditions harder. 17:29:59 I had read something a while ago about improvements in NPTL: reduced footprint, quicker startup, etc. 17:30:13 jasom: I don't think one has been written since pthread was standardised. 17:30:44 pkhuong: what about wanting an erlang-style agent-based system? :\ 17:30:49 pkhuong: that's because it would be stupid; pthreads have a lot of POSIX mandated overhead and IMO a not-very-attractive interface 17:30:52 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 17:31:07 pkhuong: well, cooperative scheduling needs fairness, but latency is an issue too ... which ain't that easy, again 17:31:30 sykopomp: that's different, and goes a lot deeper than just the threading implementation. 17:31:34 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.90.127] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:36 IIRC one of the IO libraries has epoll() and a CPS interface ... that should be "easy" to transfer to green threads 17:31:39 jasom: strange definition of transparent. 17:31:55 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.65.211] has joined #lisp 17:32:02 something similar to libtcr 17:32:08 pkhuong: I said it should be possible to do, not that it's a good idea or that anybody has done it 17:32:10 flip214: or you could just write a DSL that's easily converted to CPS. 17:32:45 sykopomp: are you looking for a portable way to do it, or any possible way? 17:32:47 pkhuong: eg. LISP is such a DSL ... 17:33:03 flip214: I don't know what LISP you're talking about. Common Lisp definitely isn't. 17:33:07 dekuked: well, at least portable across OSes. 17:34:20 pkhuong: Agent-based systems could be implemented in CL fairly easily, I think. Making them practical would involve being able to increase the concurrency. 17:34:22 nipra [~nipra@122.177.28.41] has joined #lisp 17:34:31 at least for semi-complex systems. 17:34:36 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:35:49 sykopomp: *in* CL, sure. I don't see what makes CL better suited as an implementation language than any other. 17:36:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:36:27 pkhuong: I like CL better than other languages, and I like everything -else- it brings to the table. 17:36:56 If I *only* wanted to spawn tons of agents, I could just use Erlang, but the rest of my experience wouldn't be as pleasant. 17:37:04 sykopomp: like I said, "just write a state machine already" - your friendly kernel people. 17:37:58 but state machines are icky :( 17:38:13 write a DSL that compiles to a state machine. Same difference. 17:38:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-240-211.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 17:38:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-240-211.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 17:38:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:38:42 *sykopomp* wonders if anyone's written such a thing already. 17:39:26 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:39:52 chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.39.219.179] has joined #lisp 17:39:52 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.39.219.179] has quit [Changing host] 17:39:52 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 17:42:11 there's shriram's old swine before perl example. 17:42:41 mel0on [~user@h-91-136.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 17:44:02 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.39.207] has joined #lisp 17:46:29 -!- df_ [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:48:12 sykopomp: there are plenty of tools to generate state machines for you 17:48:46 jasom: but is there one that does the necessary locking, too? would have to be done by hand again... 17:49:16 flip214: sorry I haven't been following the conversation closely enough, which locking? 17:49:31 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 17:49:48 jasom: when a state-machine is used in a multithreading application, there's likely some locking necessary 17:50:06 maybe you want message passing between cooperative-scheduled actors, like the bright people who worked on e-lang have been telling us for years. 17:50:25 flip214: oh, I don't typically use mutable shared state in multithreading 17:51:37 wouldn't each logical thread have its own state anyway? 17:51:52 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:52:12 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:52:19 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:52:25 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 17:52:26 df_ [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:55 I'm guessing most (or at least lots) of this Drei stuff never actually gets used... 17:53:36 IMO if you're writing locks anywhere except in implementing the higher-level primitives you are actually going to use for inter-thread communication, you're doing it wrong 17:54:50 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:54 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:58:17 is there any way to find out what refs there are in lisp to a weak object? 17:58:41 metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 17:59:13 *maxm* is torturing his lib through all possible scenarios, and in 1 of them there are 2 refs left on lisp side, which are not collected. I checked all the lambdas I generate, nothing is closed over 17:59:30 maxm: SBCL has map-allocated-objects or something named like that. 18:00:07 pkhuong: thanks found it 18:00:15 but be careful with it 18:00:58 yea I'm going to copy the code from room and adapt to my needs 18:01:05 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:29 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 18:04:35 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:08:13 -!- metaphysician is now known as Guest33094 18:08:16 metaphys1cian [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 18:08:23 -!- Guest33094 [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:12:59 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-227-19.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:13:08 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-140-248.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:18 heh found map-referencing-objects before started to write my own 18:15:45 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-244.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:11 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 18:20:10 Kron__ [~Kron@2.49.66.141] has joined #lisp 18:23:21 ok I'm completely baffled, other then references from weak hash, there is a reference to it from another instance, which was passed around as lexical variable from one function to another, for which map-referenced-objects finds no references 18:23:26 so no idea why its not getting collected 18:23:42 might be an old stray pointer on the stack. 18:24:11 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:24:24 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.66.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:26:19 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-229-222.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:43 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-140-248.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:27:20 -!- metaphys1cian [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:41 ok found it, its damn stephil 18:29:55 I made my helper function (deftests) with args 18:30:35 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@214-106-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:31:18 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-229-222.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 18:31:24 and stephil remembers them in test results object 18:31:33 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-229-222.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:58 metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 18:33:25 senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:45 dekuked` [~user@mail.kesnermorrissey.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:48 -!- dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:37:52 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-187-216-209.lns3.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:38:42 Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.3.162] has joined #lisp 18:41:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:41:24 gaidal 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[~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-222-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 19:05:02 *maxm* can think of no other test to add, so I'm all done.. rewriting to single lisp reference ala commonqt actually went better then expected 19:06:15 -!- metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:28 hrs_ [~textual@ip-128-239-135-42.v4.wm.edu] has joined #lisp 19:07:20 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 19:09:46 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has quit [Quit: #WeeChat #Mises #emacs] 19:11:30 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.213] has joined #lisp 19:11:48 metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 19:13:08 DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:42 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:18 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 19:14:39 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 19:16:09 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 19:17:34 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-244.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 19:17:55 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA1134.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:20 -!- Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:20:21 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 19:21:39 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 19:22:45 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23:00 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:24:49 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-91.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:26:29 CampinSam [~Sam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:28:36 -!- hrs_ [~textual@ip-128-239-135-42.v4.wm.edu] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 19:29:05 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:29:25 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:29:52 -!- nullman [~nullman@74.113.164.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:31:37 -!- CampinSam [~Sam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:33:00 VieiraN [~VieiraN@177.103.123.124] has joined #lisp 19:34:13 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-222-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:25 CampinSam [~Sam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:35:09 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:36 (in a discussion about how some lisp functions/macros are named after some assembly instructions) on the other hand, TERPRI is named for the highest scoring word in a drunken scrabble game played between Gosper and Greenblatt on 14th March, 1977. 19:37:02 Quadrescence: nice :) 19:38:02 must have been an awfully low-scoring game 19:38:17 Quadrescence: what's the source? 19:40:23 lisp 1.5 was out in early 60s and it had terpri 19:40:42 In fact terpri was in LISP 1.5 (and probably in LISP 1.0 too). 19:41:00 Mmmm, I think it was a joke, guys. 19:41:24 -!- CampinSam [~Sam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:41:31 The joke would have been ok, if he had said 1947 instead of 1977. 19:41:41 sellout: it would've been funny if it was true 19:41:50 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has left #lisp 19:41:58 or at least plausible. 19:42:05 It was pretty funny anyway 19:42:10 stassats`: Indeed. 19:42:17 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 19:42:35 dca [~user@176.14.174.184] has joined #lisp 19:42:43 mgsk [~Mark@li357-97.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:43:37 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 19:45:08 CampinSam [~Sam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:16 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-244.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:02 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:46:30 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 19:48:05 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-229-222.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:49:34 -!- metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:50:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:53:06 -!- ngz [~user@103.69.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:29 snearch [~snearch@f053000198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:53:38 ngz [~user@103.69.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:47 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-222-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 19:55:26 the largest implausibility is the lowness of the score 19:56:59 nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-52-234.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 19:57:23 Kryztof: They must have been really drunk ;) 19:59:39 gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-85-152.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:00:16 I think that raises scores. It's much easier to put down words parallel to other words if no-one can remember what two-letter words aren't allowed 20:00:40 isn't terpri just TERminate PRInting? 20:00:58 It is. 20:01:07 jasom: It's a backronym. 20:01:08 :D 20:01:39 "mynorca" 20:02:19 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:22 It's minorca, where the minotaure lived :-) 20:02:27 I think you're right, though. They surely invented RPLACD at the same game, when one of them didn't have enough vowels. That should have been scored higher than TERPRI. 20:03:07 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:03:20 jacius: it's not just vowels, it was just to hold them in a single word (6*6-bit = 36-bit). 20:05:16 pjb: Indeed. That's not a very good punchline for a joke, though. :) 20:05:19 that reminds me of the "eieio" opcode and the other of the same family ... some IBM CPU, IIRC 20:06:07 flip214: Power/PPC. 20:06:07 I bet Ravi Sethi was really pleased with the SPARC instruction set 20:06:40 -!- KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:33 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:08:13 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:43 just to confirm, cffi master from github works fine for me with commonqt, with no issues 20:08:54 *maxm* is back to his gui stuff 20:09:53 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-39-227.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:10:11 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-39-227.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:10:58 stassats`` [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-50-194.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 20:11:03 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:11:19 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has joined #lisp 20:11:21 maxm: luis fixed it :) 20:11:26 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:11:48 -!- stassats`` is now known as stassats 20:11:58 yea I seen it.. it seems hard to convince lisp library maintainers they have a bug then other languages :-) 20:12:54 chupish [182c5af4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.44.90.244] has joined #lisp 20:12:59 maxm: glibc. 20:13:15 damn power failure 20:13:17 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-50-194.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 20:13:22 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-50-194.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 20:14:26 maxm: bullshit 20:15:36 don't worry, it's the C++ distortion field 20:22:08 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:23 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:31 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-8-125.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 20:36:58 Generation 35: (3.4028233E38 1.6548021E-34 9.153425E18) ==> 1F+-0 #| 1F+-0 is single-float not-a-number |# 20:37:09 oh LispWorks (that final thing is a format ~A of a float) 20:37:22 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-46-242.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:40 fe[nl]ix: err, don't be touchy, cffi is excellent lib, I did not intended to diss you guys.. Just observed it took long time to convince you, but once you seen it, was fixed right away 20:37:42 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:38:30 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 20:38:43 *maxm* always insults people un-intentionally 20:38:44 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.220.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:38:50 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:01 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c06af.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:34 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c06af.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:40:35 TimKack` [~user@c-2ec22689-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 20:40:59 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 20:41:05 does nobody support storage data in NaNs anymore? ;) 20:41:11 -!- nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:41:47 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:27 pkhuong: hah. 20:43:03 pkhuong: storing data in NaNs has got to be just about the craziest feature ever. 20:43:14 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:43:15 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec22689-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:43:41 foom: except for nan-boxing? (: 20:45:00 Is nan-boxing for take-out indian food? 20:45:44 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-85-152.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 20:45:59 Hopefully it's not old ladies fighting. 20:46:00 maxm: it didn't take long at all 20:46:02 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:03 Depends if you nan-box a curried function or a plain vanilla function. 20:46:27 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Out of this 3D] 20:46:55 nyef: it's how the first performance-oriented javascript implementations represented pointer data. 20:46:56 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:12 fe[nl]ix: ok, I must have mis-remembered, for some reason i thought stassats brought it up like 2-3 weeks ago 20:47:18 I think some branch of lua went down the same path at some point 20:47:46 ... Well, it makes a certain amount of horrifying sense, I suppose. 20:48:32 *maxm* is equal opportunity disser, it took him 1 years to get generate location for xrefs fix into slime :-) 20:48:34 maxm: that's correct, but convincing is not the same thing as finding the time to concoct a proper fix 20:49:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:50:28 nyef: more so than whoever it was's plan to exploit the unused address bits in x86-64 for tags, imo ;) 20:50:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-240-211.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 20:50:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-240-211.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 20:50:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 20:51:12 But... but... aren't those specifically RESERVED for future expansion? 20:51:47 yeah, they have to be the same as the sign bit anyway. 20:52:05 -!- TimKack` [~user@c-2ec22689-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:52:20 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:52:31 -!- chupish [182c5af4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.44.90.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:53:06 "This is the ``kernel'' tag, and this is the ``user'' tag. And we don't have enough tag space for any finer distinction." 20:53:07 df;laksd~ 20:56:18 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:19 there quite enough, but the final spec decided to learn from the 68k's mistakes. 20:56:56 Hah! "Let's use the high eight bits of each pointer for memory-management flags." 20:58:53 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has joined #lisp 20:59:06 Okay, I'm going to make myself scarce for the evening. Hopefully not for the entire weekend. 20:59:09 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 20:59:54 hunting another software barrier heisenbug :\ 21:00:15 saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA1134.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:07:09 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 21:07:31 hmm pardon the hamfisting, lost my connection. 21:12:19 -!- dekuked` [~user@mail.kesnermorrissey.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:15:24 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 21:16:30 -!- DrForr_ is now known as DrFOrr 21:16:34 -!- DrFOrr is now known as DrFor 21:16:37 -!- DrFor is now known as DrForr 21:21:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:23:31 ysph [~user@adsl-065-013-204-170.sip.mgm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:46 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@91-67-230-210-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:52 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:28:13 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:42 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:30:57 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:31:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-240-211.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 21:31:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-240-211.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 21:31:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:34:21 ikki [~ikki@189.247.220.19] has joined #lisp 21:34:49 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:50 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:39:02 man Qt painting model is pretty good, I can create quite bizzare effect playing with pen width and scaling 21:39:50 ie http://i.imgur.com/MUJYl.png 21:40:26 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:44:15 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c06af.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:45:22 cool, what is it? 21:46:06 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 21:46:32 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-226-64.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:04 booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:36 i'm writing a tradestation like app 21:47:39 with lisp for scripting 21:49:16 -!- stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-50-194.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:49:30 *maxm* needs to adopt better thing then z-order, non-user friendly.. Some kind of ctrl-click or shift click to bring objects forward/backward 21:50:26 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:53:17 nyef: To be fair, MacOS 68k didn't use the high bits of *normal* pointers, only the high bits of pointers in the special "handle" array. 21:53:33 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.39.207] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:53:54 booyah [456c4278@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.108.66.120] has joined #lisp 21:54:33 foom: I hear other applications did. 21:54:45 It was perfectly easy to move that data to a separate array...except that people had optimized their code by inlining their accesses to that OS-private array. 21:55:27 (the code in system ROM of some macs had this issue as well) 21:56:10 Guthur [~user@host86-150-21-142.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:58:13 The official API was via non-inlined function calls, so in theory there was no issue changing the way it was implemented internally. 21:58:44 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-52-234.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:04:16 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[afk] 22:05:09 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@178-164-241-51.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 22:05:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:07:08 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 22:10:23 Anyone aware of any discussions on another European Common Lisp Meetup this year? 22:11:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:30 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 22:12:45 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 22:13:27 Guthur: You mean specifically ECLM (Meeting), or just any kind of lisp meetup in Europe? ECLM usually happens in the fall, I think. Perhaps in Hamburg this time? 22:14:46 Wasn't it in Hamburg this time already? 22:14:49 sellout: ECLM, though any meetup might be of interest 22:14:56 amsterdam last year 22:15:03 Getting them mixed up. 22:15:04 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:15:05 ELS was in hamburg last year 22:15:14 There are two events. 22:15:41 ELS was Zadar, Croatia, I'm just back from that 22:15:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:53 Zadar is a wonderful city 22:16:27 Pity getting to Zadar was such a pain. 22:16:44 Though I wouldn't have been able to come anyway  child out. 22:17:12 it working out less painful than I imagined, though I suppose it depends on your starting location 22:17:27 I've only spent like 5 minutes in Zadar. More time in Zagreb and Vodice, though. 22:17:28 flights from London Stansted were very reasonably 22:18:34 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:18:39 Does drakma support ipv6? I understand the socket library must do that on the lower level, but does it support ipv6 literal addresses in URL-s and the like? 22:24:34 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.114.197.29.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 22:25:04 How can I wrap a function that calls cl-svg:draw with a cl-svg:transform macro? 22:25:53 Is that even possible or does the draw call have to be in the transform macro to work? 22:26:45 It would be quite inconvenient if I had to pass the transform parameters all the time. Would you just use a dynamic variable? 22:29:10 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-24-225.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:18 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5B326618.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:24 sepi: or reader monad 22:30:32 oh, wait, wrong channel 22:30:36 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:50 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:50 does haskell have macros 22:31:14 yes 22:31:18 and you can use monads in lisp 22:31:51 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:32:58 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5082BA59.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:33:34 Haskell has such a great macro system... that my team had to resort to CPP in a project they already use Template Haskell in. 22:35:12 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 22:36:33 gendl [~gendl@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-241-212.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 22:40:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-241-212.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 22:40:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:40:43 paul0 [~paul0@189.114.197.29.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 22:40:52 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@CPE-60-225-88-32.hhui2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:42:20 attila_lendvai2 [~attila_le@178-164-241-153.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 22:42:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:42:23 -!- attila_lendvai2 is now known as attila_lendvai 22:42:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-241-153.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 22:42:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:42:27 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 22:43:01 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@178-164-241-51.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:43:18 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.114.197.29.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Client Quit] 22:43:58 gendl [~gendl@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:40 Does the #slime channel really only have 1 member? 22:44:44 RomyRomy [~stickycak@207.239.107.3] has joined #lisp 22:44:45 stickycake [~stickycak@207.239.107.3] has joined #lisp 22:44:56 what is the best place for slime questions? 22:45:41 S11001001: I was already excited to use monads to solve my problem :P 22:45:44 gendl: the mailing list 22:46:51 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:23 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:50:50 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@207.239.107.3] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 22:50:51 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@207.239.107.3] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 22:51:03 iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 22:51:08 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:29 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@188-143-59-94.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 22:53:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:53:32 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 22:53:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-59-94.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 22:53:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:54:24 -!- S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:56:59 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@188-143-58-92.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 22:57:02 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 22:57:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-58-92.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 22:57:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:57:41 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-244.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 23:01:20 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 23:01:22 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Client Quit] 23:01:44 gendl: are you dave cooper ? 23:01:59 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 23:02:10 yep 23:02:34 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053000198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:02:39 and Gendl is the new name for Genworks GDL 23:02:43 who's there? 23:03:43 I remember you from the chapel in Amsterdam :D 23:05:30 how's the foundation going ? 23:05:56 Yes, I gave everyone a dispensation from going to church that Sunday... 23:08:17 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 23:09:24 -!- kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-177-28.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:09 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 23:10:11 manahino [~manahino@softbank126108006128.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:50 what's a good way to transform an absolute pathname into a relative one? 23:12:37 for example "/images/bird.png" becomes "images/bird.png" 23:13:10 enough-pathname ? 23:14:42 (enough-namestring "/images/bird.png" "/") 23:14:47 hmm... is (named-readtables:in-readtable ...) from the repl a bad idea? 23:15:51 oops --- enough-namestring not enough-pathname 23:16:33 slyrus_: good question. be a pioneer and find out :) 23:16:34 -!- RenJuan [~juan@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:45 ok, seems to cause trouble! 23:17:00 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:01 all seems good until a C-c C-k in a buffer then my readtable is hosed 23:18:12 gendl, fe[nl]ix: perfect! much prettier than (setf (car (pathname-directory)) :relative), and I'm guessing safer 23:18:23 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:19:02 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:19:51 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:04 -!- ysph [~user@adsl-065-013-204-170.sip.mgm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:24:08 -!- ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:57 -!- booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:27:46 grumble grumble... when is slime going to get (in-readtable ...) support? 23:29:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-114.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:41 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 23:32:21 ISF_ [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 23:36:59 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:37:30 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:38:51 What's the story of the function name prin1? 23:42:08 pnq [~nick@AC815F74.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:43:34 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:44:50 Hum, I wonder if there's any chance that a fix for this could make it in time for the next Quicklisp dist: https://bugs.launchpad.net/slime/+bug/994908 (DEFINE-FOO being highlighted in Slime but not DEFINE) 23:46:19 -!- ngz [~user@103.69.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:47:34 hmm I don't have any problem with in-readtable in my files 23:47:57 Hum. That has nothing to do with in-readtable... 23:48:00 but my readtable is simply inverted one, ie it includes the standard one, only difference is readtable-case 23:48:18 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:48:56 and C-c C-k does not switch the REPL's readtable.. But actually doing (in-package :my-pakage) does 23:49:09 slime somehow keeps the readtable per buffer or per package somewhere 23:49:51 ISF_ [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 23:53:27 actually, its named-readtables itself that monkey-patches swank 23:55:13 not really monkey-patches but changes swank::*readtable-alist* 23:56:14 its kind of counter-intuitive that *readtable* returns one thing in RELP, but the one that is actually used is (assoc (package-name *package*) swank::*readtable-alist*) 23:57:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:57:33 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@188-143-58-92.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 23:57:34 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 23:57:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-58-92.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 23:57:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp