00:02:05 -!- Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:04:37 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.42.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:08:42 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 00:09:24 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:10:56 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0DE1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 00:11:17 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1279647303.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:13:04 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.185] has joined #lisp 00:13:16 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-171-160.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 00:16:57 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-171-160.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:20:52 -!- antonv [5d7d3142@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.66] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:21:18 KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 00:24:45 kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 00:24:47 hello. is there nothing like read-stream-into-string in alexandria? I see only read-file-into-string 00:26:18 orthecreedence [~andrew@70-36-146-226.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:08 -!- Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.15.75] has quit [] 00:29:27 kmee: it needs the length of the file in order to allocate a buffer at the correct size, it seems 00:29:51 not that there aren't ways to work around this, but I suppose they went with the method that is the most uncontroversial 00:30:03 (though not the most useful one) 00:30:17 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:32:26 Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.15.75] has joined #lisp 00:32:43 well just because there's optimized read-file-into-string function doesn't mean there also can't be a more general read-stream-into-string 00:33:28 kmee: use xcvb-driver, it has functions for that 00:33:59 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-171-160.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 00:34:04 In cesarum, there's com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.stream:contents-from-stream 00:34:06 kmee: I agree entirely 00:34:33 antifuchs: file-length works on STREAM, not on FILE. 00:34:36 cesarem legatos alacrem eorum 00:34:56 pjb: sure - but good luck trying to get sensible results on a network stream 00:35:36 kmee: I believe alexandria's philosophy is to forego things that might be useful if they can't be expressed clearly and portably - this might be one of these things (: 00:35:57 -!- xjrn [~innocuous@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:16 I have a largely portable slurp-stream-string in xcvb-driver 00:36:20 antifuchs: there's no network stream in COMMON-LISP> 00:36:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:36:35 a network stream "contents" would not be part of Alexandria, nor of Cesarum. 00:36:37 pjb: then submit a pull request! (: 00:36:40 it does depend on a *default-element-type* 00:37:10 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:37:11 discussing this with me won't solve the problem (: 00:37:52 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 00:38:12 what portability issues are there? wouldn't just reading into an array and expanding it as you go (or appending result to another buffer) work everywhere 00:38:27 Furthermore, cesarum:contents-from-stream works on network streams as well as on file streams. Portably and conformingly. 00:38:28 pjb: did you try asdf 2.21's :hostname in its asdf-output-translations? 00:38:41 Fare: not yet. But soon. 00:39:06 Currently my installation is broken, I need to read asdf doc and configure it in the modern way. 00:41:05 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-171-160.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:41:30 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B0A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:41:48 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:31 -!- KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:08 it's not THAT hard. something like (:output-translations (t (:home ".cache" :hostname "common-lisp" :implementation)) :inherit-configuration) 00:44:44 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-411177.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:33 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-240-221.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 00:45:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-240-221.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 00:45:34 attila_lendvai 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[~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 04:42:08 daedalus_ [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:40 daedalus__ [~daedalus@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:19 -!- benny [~benny@i577A74A8.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:45:20 ddelony [ddelony@ukato.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 04:45:24 -!- brandonz [~brandon@199-188-193-145.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:45:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-136.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:47:15 evening 04:47:42 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.66.141] has joined #lisp 04:48:04 Hello. 04:50:13 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 04:50:17 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:50:46 When running clisp inside of emacs, how do you repeat commands. Readline doesn't really work. 04:51:27 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 04:52:43 harish [~harish@119.234.167.247] has joined #lisp 04:52:56 slime 04:53:02 -!- jake__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:53:45 Ah, I'll see if I can get the sysadmin on the shell server I'm learning Common Lisp on to install it. 04:54:23 superflit [~superflit@75-166-74-191.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:03 ddelony: just install it in your userdirectory 04:57:03 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 04:57:19 There are a few people taking the Lisp course, so they might find it useful as well. 04:58:15 -!- fukushima [~fukushima@z128.124-44-151.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 04:59:19 ddelony: what course is that? 04:59:47 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-244.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:59:54 fukushima [~fukushima@z128.124-44-151.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:00:52 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:53 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:08 teggi: It's more of an informal self-study course on SDF. A guy with the username of jgw is teaching it. 05:01:23 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:01:31 minion: SDF? 05:01:32 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``SDF''. 05:01:39 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 05:01:44 bah 05:01:57 sdf.org 05:02:00 super dimension fortress? 05:02:06 Bike: Yep. :-) 05:03:06 But this isn't my first experience with Lisp, though. I've messed around with Emacs a bit, and I've read "The Little Schemer". 05:04:14 Well, Emacs with SLIME is the CL environment most everybody in the open source Lisp community seems to use. 05:04:59 And the actual interpreter? 05:05:28 SBCL and CCL are more popular than clisp, I think. And compilers, incidentally. 05:06:19 They have an REPL, right? 05:07:08 Yes. 05:07:22 You will probably be using SLIME's REPL anyway. 05:13:25 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 05:13:35 What makes SBCL and CCL so popular? 05:14:28 neo^ [~neo@117.195.78.77] has joined #lisp 05:15:34 ddelony: high performance, native threads, unicode support, full support for ANSI CL and MOP, good support from open-source libs (SBCL more so, though it depends on platform) 05:15:39 help me choose an implementation 05:15:47 neo^: what architecture/OS? 05:16:02 x86, GNU/Linux (Debian 6) 05:16:27 p_l: I see. 05:16:35 neo^: SBCL downloaded from sbcl.org. Don't install from repository 05:17:40 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:17:42 ok 05:17:46 ddelony: CCL afaik has better support for PPC than SBCL, as well as a lot of built-in stuff for OSX (Objective-C FFI, for example). It also has ARMv7 support 05:17:57 CCL also does threads on Windows 05:18:38 ddelony: SBCL is faster and is "go to" for linux. Has much worse and less stable windows support (there's unofficial threading support) 05:18:58 and of course, there are commercial implementations :) 05:19:01 sammi` [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-rsrhpfwfkvluppws] has joined #lisp 05:19:03 I always think of Lisp as some kind of Platonic ideal, and don't really think too much about the system. 05:19:15 for Linux i generally go with SBCL unless there is some particular reason against it for a particular project 05:19:32 for Windows i currently use CCL or CLISP 05:19:34 oh, and CCL geerates visibly smaller code by default 05:19:49 p_l: Of course. Somebody's buying them, right? Oracle still makes Solaris and HP sells HP-UX. 05:20:34 ddelony: afaik HP-UX is the outlier there ;) 05:20:38 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:20:49 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:20:55 neo^_ [~neo@117.195.64.209] has joined #lisp 05:21:19 But overall, Lisp tastes good to me. It seems to match how my brain works. :-) 05:21:28 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:21:58 *p_l* has troubles coming up with reasons to buy HP-UX. AIX? Solaris? VMS? NonStop? z/OS? TPF? Various expensive developement packages? All yes. HP-UX? Erm, why? 05:22:31 p_l: i am following this http://mohiji.nfshost.com/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-linux/ 05:22:37 -!- neo^ [~neo@117.195.78.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:22:38 p_l: it's funny that you mention that: <07:15:34> ddelony: high performance, native threads, unicode support, full support for ANSI CL and MOP, good support from open-source libs (SBCL more so, though it depends on platform) 05:22:44 because clisp has all of them. 05:23:00 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-150-244.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:23:06 pjb: I was asked specifically about SBCL and CCL. 05:23:09 -!- neo^_ is now known as neo^ 05:23:20 pjb: CLISP threading on Windows? 05:23:21 it compiles faster than sbcl, it has native threads, it has better unicode support than either ccl or sbcl, it has MOP, it has good support for open source libs, including C libs, and it does that on all the platforms. 05:23:59 which implementation is the closest to the ANSI standard? 05:24:09 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-244.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:24:11 neo^: all major ones 05:24:17 there's a testsuite 05:24:40 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-244.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:09 ddelony: notice that "The Little Schemer" is about scheme, not Common Lisp. The difference being that scheme is a lisp-1 while CL is a lisp-2. Please read: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html 05:25:09 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-244.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:25:40 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-244.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:00 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@164-177-155-66.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:28:02 kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@164-177-155-66.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:29:00 pjb: I only wish CLISP was distributed with threads by default 05:29:30 p_l: it'll occur. 05:31:24 also, threading is still marked experimental on websites 05:31:57 "CLISP has almost-working multithreading." (from clisp.org) 05:32:03 -!- jpanest_ [~jpanest@108-166-73-199.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:32:07 jpanest [~jpanest@108-166-73-199.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 05:44:12 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 05:44:37 Yes. That's why it's important to use it, so that bugs are found, reported, and corrected. 05:44:44 This is freedom software! 05:46:10 yes, it is high quality libre software, which is why the produces are not claiming a working multithreading implementation until it is properly working :) 05:46:24 producers* 05:47:54 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-244.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:50:08 -!- ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:50:34 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:50:46 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.106.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:51:31 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 05:51:49 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@CPE-58-173-140-27.cjcz1.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:53:46 -!- neo^ [~neo@117.195.64.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:55:09 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:55:09 -!- zolaric [~user@modemcable184.11-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:56:18 ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:33 neo^ [~neo@117.195.91.140] has joined #lisp 05:57:35 -!- daedalus_ [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:58:02 quicklisp-slime-helper looks 2 years old. how do i install the latest cvs snapshot? 05:58:17 -!- zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-163-13.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:58:46 -!- daedalus__ [~daedalus@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:59:14 neo^: did you try #quicklisp? 05:59:18 following the README 05:59:25 neo^: it will install the latest slime supported by Quicklisp 05:59:31 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:59:49 it doesn't need to be updated because it's just a helper to find the most recent copy of slime in QL 06:01:02 Kwucks [ca091892@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.9.24.146] has joined #lisp 06:03:20 -!- neo^ [~neo@117.195.91.140] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:03:43 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:06:45 neo^ [~neo@117.195.90.236] has joined #lisp 06:10:37 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:23:29 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.169.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:26:16 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 06:28:56 -!- nydel [~jo@ip72-197-244-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:32:27 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 06:33:26 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 06:33:34 Lisp is 53 years old. A tool that's 2 years old is a nursing baby. 06:34:55 p_l: it's a helper to put slime configuration into .emacs 06:36:12 behelit [~behelit@c-5eeaaabd-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 06:37:45 pjb: :) but people in general seem to like new and shiny better than tried and tested. 06:37:51 pjb: in how many years will lisp coders be considered archeologists? :) 06:37:52 And in lisp, tools tend to work, even when they're baby tools, they don't need constant pampering. 06:38:09 they then don't relate their problems to their choice of new and shiny :) 06:38:10 phadthai: lisp archeologists will start working in 950 years. 06:38:15 heh 06:40:29 Lisp is still ahead of its time today. 06:43:45 if lisp is so great, why do so few people use it? 06:44:58 Because flies eat shit. 06:46:04 i use it, that's enough people for me 06:46:41 n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@178.47.218.233] has joined #lisp 06:46:50 stassats`: i use it and i like it, too. but this talk about how great lisp is silly nevertheless. 06:47:05 H4ns: it's pointless indeed 06:48:52 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@31.163.215.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:49:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.253.27] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.96.1] 06:50:06 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 06:52:44 -!- neo^ [~neo@117.195.90.236] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:53:32 lilin [~lilin@116.19.167.215] has joined #lisp 06:57:48 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442426.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:02:04 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@1.129.219.99] has quit [Quit: Bye] 07:04:03 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:06:33 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:06:44 -!- ddelony [ddelony@ukato.sdf.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:07:31 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:08:48 robot-beethoven 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[~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 09:34:52 leo2007 [~leo@123.112.99.167] has joined #lisp 09:36:28 m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.188] has joined #lisp 09:37:32 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 09:37:57 man can someone confirm that if you do compile-system or load system in latest slime and SBCL, if such compilation produces compiler notes xref, that clicking on xref to go to source gives emacs error? 09:38:09 I'm getting tired of fixing this every time I cvs update damn slime 09:38:13 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:39:10 Are you sure you are using compatible versions of swank and slime? 09:39:17 yes latest from cvs 09:39:49 here is backtrace http://paste.lisp.org/display/129243 09:39:51 maxm: i can't confirm that 09:39:55 -!- bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 09:40:12 bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 09:40:14 -!- bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has quit [Client Quit] 09:40:39 Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has joined #lisp 09:41:08 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:41:10 stassats`: so you can do ,delete-system-fasls cffi, then ,load-system cffi, which if you have (debug 3) produces unable to optimize %SAP-ALIEN warnings, and you can click on the warning, and it goes to the source? 09:41:34 bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 09:41:36 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:55 actually instead of click, its pressing up-arrow/down-arrow, which is bound to slime-xref-prev-line and slime-xref-next-line 09:42:03 works fine 09:42:17 weird 09:42:51 don't know what up-arrow/down-arrow you're talking about 09:43:03 -!- bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has quit [Client Quit] 09:43:21 thats where it tries to go to the source 09:43:37 bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 09:43:48 who tries? what has up-arrow/down-arrow got to do with it? 09:44:36 ok, I'll start from the start.. Slime has a thing called xrefs buffer. It looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/Q72vc.png 09:44:42 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 09:45:03 your slime is borked, look at your modifications 09:45:27 thats the thing, I don't have no modifications, clean cvs update into a new directory 09:45:39 no advices or anything 09:45:51 well, i can't fix what i can't reproduce 09:46:02 can you produce the xrefs buffer? 09:46:24 no 09:46:31 it pops up when you compile or load a system that has warnings 09:46:42 let me see if there is a specific setting which pops it up 09:46:46 *slime-compilation* doesn't look anything like in your image 09:47:14 I think it may be some defcustom to cause it to show this 09:48:24 -!- manahino [~manahino@softbank126108006128.bbtec.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:49:07 you have (setq slime-compilation-finished-hook 'slime-maybe-show-xrefs-for-notes) 09:49:13 stassats`: ok, if you do F1 v slime-compilation-finished-hook and click customize 09:49:42 do i look like i use customize? 09:49:46 stassats`: there is setting slime-maybe-show-xrefs-for-notes, thats the one which causes the *xrefs* buffer for all compiler errors doing loading of the system to be shown 09:50:07 stassats`: so you are not interested in fixing any slime functionality you not using? 09:50:16 *maxm* facepalms 09:50:18 you're bit behind the curve 09:50:37 oh well, I give up on trying to get anything past you 09:50:56 did you read the message " you have (setq slime-compilation-finished-hook 'slime-maybe-show-xrefs-for-notes)"? 09:51:54 well setting it is part of reproducing this 09:52:20 if you don't want to set it, then you won't be able to reproduce it 09:53:01 you tried telling me what i just said, and then react in a weird way 09:53:06 Kryztof [c1c66933@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.198.105.51] has joined #lisp 09:53:19 weird 09:54:10 so with, 'slime-maybe-show-xrefs-for-notes in the compilation-finished-hook, are you able to make slime to produce *xrefs* buffer when compiling a system that has warnings? 09:54:26 -!- Dodek [am291698@duch.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:54:29 i am 09:55:06 and if you press up/down arrows in the *xrefs* buffer, does it go to the source, or gives emacs error? 09:55:09 -!- kanru`` [~user@199.195.142.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:55:38 yes, i am able to reproduce your error 09:56:30 great, if you want the patch to fix it, its posted to slime mailing list around 1 year ago, as well as on lisppaste in scrollback, as well as I can lisppaste it again.. its one-liner 09:56:42 Illiux [~nol@c-71-207-33-86.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:00 here it is again http://paste.lisp.org/display/129244 09:58:29 Dodek [am291698@duch.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 09:58:40 Whitesquall [~notwhites@94.242.169.232] has joined #lisp 09:58:46 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:59:09 how you don't see an irony of being frustrated trying to prove to cffi guys they had a bug, while behaving in absolutely same manner about slime 09:59:54 Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 10:00:15 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 10:00:48 unbelievable 10:02:04 -!- hba [~hba@189.229.239.86] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:03:45 Skola_ [~Skola@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 10:04:19 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:05:19 -!- Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has left #lisp 10:06:07 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:06:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-244.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:07:22 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 10:07:44 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 10:07:48 maxm: applied the proper fix, thanks for the report, and no thanks for whining 10:08:13 -!- behelit [~behelit@c-5eeaaabd-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:08:18 the proper fix is to use LIST instead of CONS, (list x y) and not (cons x (list y)) 10:09:00 and I pasted what? 10:09:25 the former 10:09:34 no, the latter 10:09:49 i.e., (cons x (list y)) 10:10:22 manahino [~manahino@softbank126108006128.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:29 I changed location to (list location) where do you see cons? 10:10:43 mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-hudd6-0-0-cust741.4-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:10:46 right there 10:11:46 ok whichever way it is, just either apply my fix, or make your own, is all fine with me 10:12:03 it's already in 10:12:18 and in the right way, just changing cons to list, not make the location a list 10:14:38 saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA0A70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:17:37 nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-13-181.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 10:17:39 -!- bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:18:52 bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 10:25:00 -!- sammi` [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-rsrhpfwfkvluppws] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:25:59 sammi` [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-qoelsrtuxgfdhvpz] has joined #lisp 10:29:30 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:30:37 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 10:43:54 good evening 10:44:39 Good morning. 10:45:33 was there a format trick that allowed me to print list like "foo, bar, or quux"? getting "foo, bar, quux" is easy, but injecting the "or" is stumping me 10:45:37 i keep thinking it should be possible 10:46:14 is there a convenient way to use mapcar but only get positive results, ie skip all the NIL results? 10:46:25 mapcan 10:46:51 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 10:46:55 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:47:03 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:47:08 (mapcan (lambda (x) (when (foo x) (list (bar x)))) list) 10:47:31 nikodemus: isn't that an example in CLtL2? 10:47:36 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:47 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 10:48:22 *nikodemus* looks 10:49:43 nikodemus: re format trick, ~@[ clhs 22.3.7.2 10:50:35 wait, I misread the example, but anyway that clhs page has an example 10:51:16 I think that's what I was thinking of 10:51:23 getting caught in "I know it _must_ be possible to do it with format" mental loop is time you could have spent done other stuff :-) 10:51:27 ~@{ ~#[ 10:51:32 *maxm* is guilty of it as well 10:52:41 nikodemus: the problem with mapcan is that it uses nconc which doesn't copy the values 10:52:55 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 10:53:47 (format nil "~{~@{~a, ~1,#^~}or ~a~}" '(a b c d e)) => "A, B, C, D, or E" 10:54:01 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.112.99.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:54:01 eMBee: you use (list x) to wrap the results you want to keep 10:54:12 otherwise you return nil 10:54:44 excellent, this is just what i was looking for 10:55:51 now you just need to decide about the Oxford comma 10:56:09 can anyone think of lisp libraries other than SERIES which override/shadow DEFUN? 10:56:51 donno if relevant but closer-mop shadows defmethod for several implementation 10:57:16 screamer 10:57:34 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 10:57:54 thanks 10:57:55 nikodemus: ah, hmm, thanks, i'll try that 10:58:46 Kryztof: IBCL. 10:59:06 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3359.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:16 Kryztof: minion had a memo for you, but your nick is not aliased to Xof in its database, so, here it is: from gigamonkey http://www.r-bloggers.com/the-best-statistical-programming-language-is-%E2%80%A6javascript/ 11:01:12 amazing 11:01:25 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-203.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:02:06 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.183.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:55 thanks :-) My response, which maybe gigamonkey will read in logs, is that that table of timing numbers is based on implementations of benchmarks massively more flawed than even the great benchmark game 11:03:34 mandelbrot set computation is extremely easy to vectorize, so why iterate pixel by pixel in the high level language? 11:03:38 anyway. Lunch 11:04:35 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:04:36 and anyway, why should raw numbercrunching be a measure of what is said in the title. By that logic, the best stats language is fortran. 11:06:18 its not the size of data its what you do with it 11:07:12 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:20 all the big data craze is fine, but once people start write backtesters running on big data, I'm convinced that more data is in fact more opportunity to come up with overfitted model 11:07:56 -!- Kryztof [c1c66933@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.198.105.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:08:31 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 11:11:04 -!- Sakako [~sakako@115-64-228-146.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:16:42 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:18:08 above is in terms of applying it to investing.. in consumer stuff ie targeted advertisement I guess big data is probably a gold mine. People should not be scared of what google knows about them, instead they should be scared of amazon 11:20:22 -!- ykm [~ykm@180.148.60.180] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:20:46 -!- hash [~hash@178.239.26.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:21:12 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 11:23:45 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:24:16 dca` [~user@178.252.127.251] has joined #lisp 11:25:38 wrapping a (list) around results i want for mapcan is trickier than i thought, seem i have to capture the result in a variable, then test it and then decide what to do with it. i think it would be easier to use mapcar and then strip the NIL values from the result 11:25:53 -!- dca [~user@178.252.127.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:25:58 easier in terms of less code to write 11:26:17 not that the code would be complicated 11:26:21 eMBee: if you don't care about only using standard libs, take a look at iterate, its quicklisp installable 11:26:38 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-52-6.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:27:02 eMBee: (iterate (for x in list) (when (interesting-p x) (collect (transform x)))) 11:27:03 does alexandria have anything? 11:28:12 hmm, i think that can be done with loop too. but a library would be worth it for do "mapcar if not nil" 11:29:19 Has Madhu been replaced by a bot on cll? 11:30:30 eMBee: what is wrong with (let (...) (if ... (mapcar ... ...)? 11:30:56 eMBee this particular example would work, but with iterate you can collect anywhere since it's parsing entire tree. for example (iter (for x in list) (case ... (collect x)) 11:33:01 prxq: please elaborate 11:33:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-244.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:33:28 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:33:38 kennyd: thanks, i'll keep that in mind for more complicated cases 11:34:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-244.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:34:15 eMBee: (loop for x in list for res = (foo x) when res collect res) 11:35:03 nikodemus : right, that's what i came up with too 11:39:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:39:39 -!- Illiux [~nol@c-71-207-33-86.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:41:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-240-221.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 11:41:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-240-221.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 11:41:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:42:03 -!- bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:13 bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 11:48:19 erm, no, i has the loop wrapped around mapcar. your solution replaces mapcar, that's better 11:49:47 nikodemus: (loop for x in list when (foo x) collect it) 11:50:32 ooh, i keep forgetting loop is anaphoric! 11:53:18 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-66-60.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:53:54 nice, thanks 11:57:20 -!- bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:58:26 bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 11:59:42 BeLucid_ [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:01:30 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:03 -!- bondar [~rukugu@41.72.193.86] has quit [Client Quit] 12:02:50 agumonkey [~agu@17.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:40 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176342129.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:07:08 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:13:56 hash [~hash@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 12:15:26 -!- hash [~hash@178.239.26.130] has quit [Client Quit] 12:16:30 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 12:17:34 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:38 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has left #lisp 12:17:48 jmckitrick [~user@108-77-156-183.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:20 hi 12:23:02 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-159-74.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:23:15 http://paste.lisp.org/display/129245 << does anyone know why I have this behavior ? 12:25:09 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-168-240.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:25:09 The_third_man: cl hash tables default to using EQL as test. You need to use (make-hash-table :test 'equal) 12:25:41 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176342129.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 12:25:48 thanks a lot maxm :) 12:28:06 -!- jmckitrick [~user@108-77-156-183.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:30:37 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@2.81.208.192] has joined #lisp 12:32:35 LiamH [~healy@wireless-206-196-162-153.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:34:27 emr [~user@KHP059129075208.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:36:14 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:37:49 Sakako [~sakako@115-64-228-146.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:37:59 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-244.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:38:25 -!- kennyd [kennyd@93-136-127-120.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:40:35 kennyd [kennyd@93-138-82-244.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 12:43:52 Kryztof [c1c66933@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.198.105.51] has 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14:28:04 no 14:28:13 -!- dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:27 dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:48 It's certainly many more cycles with a more complex key type. 14:29:36 you can return wrong results instantly 14:29:51 -!- hash [~hash@178.239.26.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:30:42 behelit [~behelit@c213-89-59-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:31:06 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-173-66-213-19.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 14:33:16 -!- dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has left #lisp 14:33:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:37:44 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:00 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:58 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/x-ucaxgwcycenbpbfi] has 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14:50:44 dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:22 what's the best way to learn how a lisp project works? M-.? Or using slime to step through a live one? 14:52:18 also, is there a way to pause the state of a lisp program, and play around in the repl at that moment? 14:52:25 A combination of both, starting from whatever's documented or exported in the defpackage forms. 14:55:10 hey, I managed to install lisp on my pocket pc! 14:55:43 francogrex: what lisp, what pocket pc? 14:56:27 htc (windows mobile), and it's common lisp, a derivative of clisp 14:56:36 runs very well 14:56:59 Cool. 14:57:29 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:44 what happened to android? 14:57:47 indeed, i had the htc for years, didn't know that i could do that. 14:58:04 stassats`: I'm disappointed with the android 14:58:17 you are? 14:58:23 it will take me some time to get used to it 14:58:59 i liked maemo the best in terms of hackability 14:59:02 I very much dislike my Android. The Blackberry I had previously was way less capable and way more usable. 14:59:28 and i could run clisp on it, and you can run CCL with Qt on more modern versions 14:59:47 there are ecl and ccl branches for android 14:59:52 -!- Skola_ [~Skola@89.184.179.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:59:57 Ufasoft Common Lisp for Windows Mobile: 1) install PocketConsole; 2) Set the value in Registry key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\Console\OutputTo to "0", reboot the Device; 3) Copy files lisp.exe and init.bls to some directory on device and run lisp.exe 15:00:35 oGMo: i have ccl with quicklisp and a few libraries successfully running on android 15:00:36 Jeremy recently said CCL was running on Android, but no one seemed to know if it could use Android Lighthouse and Smoke, which I haven't used but understand to be how you get to Qt from Lisp. 15:00:48 stassats`: nice! 15:00:58 ChibaPet: I think google is doing to android what mac has done with their os for mobile devices 15:01:12 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-owhiwxporisgsiro] has joined #lisp 15:01:24 francogrex: Lock it down such that it's difficult to touch in any meaningful way? 15:01:25 but as stassats` and others have managed 15:01:28 a cffi wrapper for the api stuff should be easy enough 15:01:33 ChibaPet: yes 15:01:49 francogrex: The irony is that it's based on GPL'd software. 15:01:56 i know! 15:02:17 while i'd rather run lisp on a full linux, it'd be neat to have ccl on the app store ;) 15:02:23 that's why i don't understand google's 'paranoia' 15:02:41 well, i don't know, rooting my sgs2 was trivial 15:03:02 and then installing android sdk 15:03:02 windows mobile is much more open that both 15:03:08 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:03:15 stassats`: well you shoudn't need to root for just dev stuff, but it's nice 15:03:37 oGMo: had to root for ccl to be able to run it from command line 15:04:06 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.127.179] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:04:12 stassats`: really? you couldn't just log in via adb shell and put it on the sdcard or similar? 15:04:14 francogr` [~user@109.130.127.179] has joined #lisp 15:04:22 no 15:04:28 mucker [~harsha@183.83.33.212] has joined #lisp 15:05:26 -!- francogr` is now known as francogrex 15:06:44 All the android phones that google sells have bootloaders which can be unlocked. 15:07:46 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:08:16 you can download, build android from scratch, and stick it onto an unlocked phone. how is that similar to Apple? 15:09:19 Well, some of the non-google-sold android devices don't have unlockable bootloaders; you have to find a kernel exploit first, just like Apple. 15:09:33 -!- Farzad [Farzad@46.225.107.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:09:51 the assertion was that "google is doing to android..." 15:10:47 right, if you know of what you speak, it's clear that it's not google. But understandably, people who don't track mobile phone OSes closely will blame Google for their partners failings. 15:11:14 it's their greedy partners 15:11:48
Does anyone know what is required for a 64-bit Debian system to run a 32-bit SBCL? I'm clearly missing some libraries as ldd tells me that SBCL is not a dynamic executable(!!! But, on a native 32-bit system it works fine!!!). I'm working with the SBCL 1.0.56 binary tarball if that matters. 15:12:15 foom: actually, having unlocked both android and apple... 15:12:26 dl: libc6-i386 15:13:02 foom: Apple is bugfuck insane in how they do it, meanwhile the few truly locked Android devices are locked so thoroughly nothing short of a raid on corporate headquarters will unlock the bootloader 15:14:17 OTOH, Samsungs have reasonable setup in their bootloaders outside of few North America countries, where it's network operators that insist on it 15:14:32
stassats`: Thanks a bunch! 15:14:35 p_l: TTBOMK, every android phone with a locked bootloader has been rooted. 15:15:12 foom: yeah 15:15:14 yes but why the bother of rooting in the first place? they should be open since the start 15:15:20 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 15:15:30 francogrex: rooting removes all security features 15:15:40 all? 15:15:56 stassats`: it allows applications to request to run as root 15:16:14 p_l: that's the bullshit the companies call 'security' is just greed and proprietaryness 15:16:20 i allow only a handful of applications to do so 15:16:22 francogrex: haha no 15:16:54 francogrex: the actual proprietary bits in Android are all driver-related 15:17:12 Siphonblas [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:17 some are half-proprietary in the sense that in many countries the wonder of software patents will hunt you 15:17:27 Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:42 but how come windows mobile is open, knowing that it's micosoft and all 15:17:43 -!- Siphonblas [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:17:48 -!- daedalus__ [~daedalus@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:17:49 francogrex: um, it's not 15:17:56 Windows CE is... kinda 15:18:06 windows mobile is totally locked down 15:18:10 what am I reading 15:18:17 windows CE is totally open i can do wqhatever i want 15:18:30 you pay big bucks for Windows CE Platform Developement Kit, which involves license for source code 15:18:55 Yes, Windows Mobile Phone Edition 7 or whatever it's called is not. 15:19:24 CE is the one I have 15:19:26 then you tailor it for your purposes, from "can run 4 key-signed apps" to "a kinda winApi-compatible OS with smaller footprint" 15:19:47 one of the profiles happens to be called Windows Mobile, another is called WindowsPhone 15:19:47 sykopomp: ? 15:20:27 francogrex: as someone who tried modding WinCE devices in the past, they were a proprietary hell compared to Android 15:20:38 apart from wishing that I unsee the last two pages of scrollback, let me note that it would be beneficial to agree on one meaning of the word "open" before using it in any vaguely-technical conversation 15:20:46 cmm: true 15:21:00 my window is open 15:21:35 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:35 stassats`: careful, bugs may crawl through it 15:21:39 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-317619.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:23:17 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:24:05 kilon_ [~kilon@athedsl-385814.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:24:08 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-317626.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:26:45 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-317619.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:27:09 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-13-181.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:30:06 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 15:31:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-244.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:31:44 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-17-204-209.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:19 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@61.171.42.155] has quit [Quit: xyxu] 15:34:36 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0A70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:40:05 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 15:43:21 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:03 Yuuhi [benni@p5483ACE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:24 -!- foocraft is now known as els 15:47:27 teggi_ [~teggi@113.172.56.22] has joined #lisp 15:48:08 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.56.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:48:27 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:38 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:47 'morning 15:53:39 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.127.179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:27 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 15:58:25 o/ Fade 16:02:22 -!- mucker [~harsha@183.83.33.212] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:03:24 wonderful wonderful morning 16:03:45 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-19-133.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:54 As my boss said, it's a grade A grey day. 16:04:05 gigamonkey_: O hai. Thank you for the memo, humanly relayed 16:04:26 Welcome. 16:04:27 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-17-204-209.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:04:28 -!- gigamonkey_ is now known as gigamonkey 16:04:53 Did you see this: http://www.r-bloggers.com/an-academic-programming-language-paper-about-r/ 16:04:56 I rewrote the R mandelbrot benchmark to be 10 lines shorter and 7 times faster 16:07:19 (and also how an R user would likely write it in the first place) 16:08:16 I did not see that 16:08:22 neither the blog nor the paper 16:08:49 -!- xjrn [~innocuous@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:44 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-71.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:14:50 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.32.62.168] has joined #lisp 16:17:01 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-402201.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:17:25 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:17:47 -!- 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[~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 16:42:46 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:43:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-244.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:43:54 what sort of support does cl have for statistics? is it all that comparable to R? 16:47:02 yop [~yop@79.109.65.24.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:47:14 -!- yop [~yop@79.109.65.24.dyn.user.ono.com] has left #lisp 16:48:30 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.188] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:41 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:52:37 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 16:52:46 m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.188] has joined #lisp 16:55:38 -!- gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has quit [Quit:    .    ...] 16:57:58 pnq [~nick@ACA212D7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:11 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 16:58:24 There's always http://www.cliki.net/statistics 16:59:51 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 16:59:54 gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:08 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:04:03 -!- hrs_ [~textual@ip-128-239-135-42.v4.wm.edu] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 17:05:37 knobo [~bohmer@97.80-203-252.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:13 I forgot how to do: (SIMPLE-ARRAY (UNSIGNED-BYTE 8) (182)) -> string, do I need to do (map-into result 'code-char array)? 17:08:17 depends on encoding, you can use sbcl octets-to-string, or babel library 17:08:25 knobo: babel:octets-to-string 17:08:40 ah, right octets-to-string 17:10:45 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0A70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:11:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-244.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:11:31 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-386638.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:12:00 xjrn [~innocuous@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:11 kilon_ [~kilon@athedsl-386638.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:14:46 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-402201.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:15:07 -!- manahino [~manahino@softbank126108006128.bbtec.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:13 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-410986.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:15:33 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:16:13 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-386638.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:17:34 -!- kilon_ [~kilon@athedsl-386638.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:20:37 dekuked: I'm not R expert but I'd say no. 17:20:52 Obviously you can write whatever code you want in CL but R has a huge library of statistical related foo. 17:24:22 nydel [~jo@ip72-197-244-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:24 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:28:58 wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:59 -!- n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@178.47.218.233] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:29:59 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:31:20 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 17:33:32 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.160.221] has joined #lisp 17:33:52 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 17:34:14 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 17:35:56 there was some agitation in the R world last year to rewrite R in CL. 17:36:33 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:37:18 -!- teggi_ [~teggi@113.172.56.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:35 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA212D7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:37:37 teggi [~teggi@113.172.56.22] has joined #lisp 17:38:30 pnq [~nick@ACA212D7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:38:51 that's... unexpected 17:39:23 i'm looking for the article, but I seem to have thoroughly mislocated it. 17:40:20 -!- nydel [~jo@ip72-197-244-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:40:24 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has joined #lisp 17:42:28 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:43:06 reb` [user@nat/google/x-gwvjpflqohchstij] has joined #lisp 17:45:18 -!- reb [user@nat/google/x-cmpavhuqnrxoizer] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:45:38 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/x-owhiwxporisgsiro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:50:49 I think this is the paper: http://coruscant.deepsky.com:9099/felth 17:51:20 reb`` [user@nat/google/x-ijxvaruoibgozoqe] has joined #lisp 17:51:55 2008? 17:52:38 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:52:39 -!- daedalus_ [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:52:49 I noticed it via a blog post in 2011. 17:53:42 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:48 -!- reb` [user@nat/google/x-gwvjpflqohchstij] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:55:41 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-nqnhusehgqcnrkjd] has joined #lisp 17:58:02 Transformer [~Transform@ool-44c4bb0a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:00 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-141-25.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:26 ] 18:00:26 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-44c4bb0a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:00:42 " 18:01:23 asvil [~asvil@178.121.106.139] has joined #lisp 18:03:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:03:47 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@188-143-64-154.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 18:03:48 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 18:03:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-64-154.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 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[~nick@AC811FD9.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:41:22 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:42:59 if you want to know whether a character falls within ascii, is it better to check the char-code, or the type-specifier? (or does it matter?) 19:43:11 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:55 robot-beethoven: chr 1 - 127 ? 19:51:10 -!- pnq [~nick@AC811FD9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51:46 not sure if it matters, but the chr code seems pretty easy. 19:52:48 robot-beethoven: the only safe way is: 19:53:43 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:53:47 (every 'com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.ascii:ascii-printable-code-p string) 19:54:12 the implementations can use another encoding than ASCII for CHAR-CODE. 19:54:54 dRbiG [~p@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 19:55:39 snearch [~snearch@f053000185.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:13 "safe" 19:59:19 DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:20 -!- dRbiG [~p@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:59:39 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-159-74.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:00:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-201.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:01 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-159-74.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:01:18 -!- trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:01:49 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:02:34 francogrex [~user@109.130.127.179] has joined #lisp 20:04:21 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 20:05:37 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Quit: Out of this 3D] 20:06:03 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 20:06:34 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 20:07:06 I have a naive question, how does a lisp interpreter interact with the operating system? 20:07:12 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:08:21 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:08:34 is there a function that takes a list of strings and a string and returns t iff the latter is contained in the list? 'find and 'memq seem to ignore string equality? 20:08:39 francogrex: The same way anything else does. Either through a library such as libc, or through the syscall interface. 20:08:59 You could pretty easily write one, methinks 20:09:03 if there isn't one 20:09:22 kmels: FIND (and MEMBER, I believe) support a :TEST argument, for which you could supply #'STRING=. 20:09:29 -!- The_third_bug [~The_third@LRouen-151-73-19-163.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:09:51 Neither, however, return T in such scenarios. 20:09:53 thank you. 20:10:12 (They do return non-NIL, though, which is usually sufficient.) 20:10:15 The_third_bug [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:43 yes, that is good enough ^^ 20:12:51 kmels: Try: (let* ((target "Hello") (list (append '("World" "Bonjour") (list* target '("How" "do" "you" "do"))))) (member target list)) 20:13:04 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:13:05 nyef: sbcl uses libc or syscalls? 20:13:33 kmels: you can also use position and find. 20:13:40 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: gone] 20:14:05 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:38 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-173-66-213-19.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:23 pjb, I'm afraid I have to look at what everyone of these functions do, lisp newbie here, but I will when the other solution doesn't work, thank you 20:16:29 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:16:38 -!- r126f [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:18:04 -!- dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18:22 r126f [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has joined #lisp 20:18:41 francogrex: SBCL uses libc, and whatever other libs it needs. CMUCL has been known to use direct syscalls as well, and I did some poking about some time back in the direction of having SBCL use direct syscalls for some things as well. 20:19:35 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:38 francogrex: The usual approach is basically an FFI to some C library, though, rather than syscalls. 20:20:08 A more rarely-used tactic is to simply have the lisp environment BE the operating system. 20:20:51 dRbiG [~p@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 20:21:05 Like in Movitz. 20:21:22 nyef: is calling sycalls directly faster? 20:21:36 i mean, beyond the margin 20:21:56 stassats`: syscalls are orderS of magnitude slower than function calls. 20:22:14 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: gone] 20:22:15 function which call syscalls? 20:22:26 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.127.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:23:58 Functions that call syscalls get both sets of overhead. 20:25:00 is it really noticeable when calling syscalls directly from sbcl or through libc? 20:25:06 -!- ASau` [~user@95-25-227-191.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:11 nyef, excuse me, I understand that the syntax for the :test argument is called a "designator"? or does it depend on which dialect of lisp is it? In the lispworks documentation for "designator", I see no mentions of ":arg"-type syntax 20:25:17 -!- dRbiG [~p@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:25:37 kmels: It's a "keyword argument". 20:25:53 dekuked [~user@mail.kesnermorrissey.com] has joined #lisp 20:26:12 -!- two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:15 nyef, i see, like a named parameter then? 20:26:17 dRbiG [~p@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 20:26:28 kmels: The thing after ":test" is the designator, most likely. 20:26:42 kmels: Yes, like a named parameter. 20:26:49 ASau` [~user@95-25-227-191.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:27:48 -!- foopq_ [~camennie@CPE602ad091f75b-CM602ad091f758.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:54 vervic [~vervic@vie-078-142-130-103.dsl.sil.at] has joined #lisp 20:28:03 stassats`: the problem is not the time, but the space and convenience. The syscall API is not specially C-oriented. It may be easier to FFI to the syscall API, than to FFI to C. 20:29:02 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.56.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:28 interesting, thanks 20:29:36 Could also be less of an "FFI" if you can teach the compiler to emit a syscall "inline". 20:30:06 kmels: notice however that keyword arguments are passed as normal arguments: they're not syntax. 20:30:31 (defun f (&rest args &key a b c) args) (f :a 1 :c 3) --> (:a 1 :c 3) 20:30:50 -!- dRbiG [~p@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:31:08 -!- alvis` [~user@tx-184-6-180-2.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:31:41 trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 20:32:01 pjb, there is no option but to pass them with the ":" at the beginning? 20:32:06 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 20:33:34 kmels: there is. 20:34:29 pjb, doesn't that make them syntax? ^^ 20:35:10 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-108-051.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:36:55 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:38:27 kmels: (let ((k (if (zerop (random 2)) 'a 'b))) (f k 2)) 20:38:42 kmels: or (let ((k (if (zerop (random 2)) :a :b))) (f k 2)) with the previous definition of f. 20:42:18 oh I couldn't eval that, neither understand what it is, but i liked these designators. 20:43:48 (let ((k (if (zerop (random 2)) 'a 'b))) (f k 2)) => (nil 2) 20:43:52 Why couldn't you eval that? 20:44:00 shouldn't it be :a and :b ? 20:44:14 kennyd: not according to my last definition of f. 20:44:15 dRbiG [~p@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 20:44:18 it says f's definition is void (using elisp) 20:44:35 kmels: :keywords are just symbols in the :keyword package 20:44:38 kmels: why didn't you give your lisp the definition of f I gave you here? 20:44:46 kmels: and we're discussing common lisp, not elisp. 20:44:51 Not anything special syntactically 20:44:58 In elisp, to get keyword you need to use (require 'cl) and defun*. 20:45:03 kmels :foo is just a 'foo symbol in the keyword package 20:45:07 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128249044.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 20:45:15 (eq :foo 'keyword:foo) 20:45:16 oh.. 20:45:23 (but again, not in elisp) 20:45:33 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.106.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:45:38 yes, different. didn't check the topic sorry :p 20:45:44 (list (symbol-package :foo) (symbol-name :foo)) => (# "FOO") 20:47:08 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has left #lisp 20:48:45 -!- dRbiG [~p@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:49:44 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 20:50:35 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-19-133.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 20:50:39 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:50:46 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:51:01 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 20:51:31 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 20:52:08 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-19-133.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:29 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 20:54:48 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-244.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 20:56:04 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:42 davlaps [~davlaps@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:32 tensorpudding__ [~michael@99.148.203.239] has joined #lisp 21:03:42 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 21:04:10 what do I use for :test in sbcl if I want a hashtable keyeb by saps? 21:04:15 mucker [~harsha@183.83.227.117] has joined #lisp 21:04:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-143-137.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 21:04:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-143-137.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 21:04:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:05:52 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.32.62.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:06:43 guess sb-impl::sap-int 21:07:01 kind of surprised eql does not work on them 21:07:03 maxm: make-hashtable's :test isn't a function designator 21:07:29 Guthur [~user@78-0-133-2.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 21:07:30 dlowe: thank you for the helpful comment 21:07:38 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0A8E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:08:28 maxm: it is, and always will be, my pleasure to assist in any way that I am capable. 21:08:48 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.56.163.165] has joined #lisp 21:09:30 in any case, I believe there's a sbcl extension that allows you to pass hash functions in 21:10:54 sorry did not meant to sound so sarcastic, just grumpy due to outside of lisp reasons 21:12:14 -!- tensorpudding__ [~michael@99.148.203.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:12:37 is it easy to survive on contract work in cl? 21:13:00 no idea, pjb, H4ns probably can comment 21:13:19 it seems easier in europe 21:15:07 dekuked: it can be done! 21:15:08 dekuked: I don't think so. I think it would be easier to create a start up 21:15:16 (I did it for a few years) 21:15:16 maxm: i've been working for US companies during the last 6 years. 21:15:32 living in a place with low rent / cost of living helps 21:15:44 dekuked: it is not easy. there are few jobs. 21:15:47 pjb: what makes you say that? that seeems highly counter-intuitive to me 21:15:50 H4ns: doh, did not knew.. How do you find it, words of mouths? 21:16:02 maxm: lispjobs generally 21:16:04 think supporting a family becomes easier if you don't live in the SF bay area where you pay $3000/month for a 2-bedroom apartment and stuff 21:16:10 thats nice to know 21:16:34 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:16:41 dekuked: the problem is that there are few company offering lisp jobs. And even fewer accepting remote work. So you spend a lot in moving overhead. 21:16:52 at least I'll have some backup in case of sliding back into the poorhouse 21:16:54 *sykopomp* thinks it would be nice to have a rating/comment section on lispjobs to avoid unpleasant traps listed there. 21:17:09 sykopomp: gators? 21:17:35 NYC is even crazier 21:17:37 sykopomp: i think the idea is that companies pay for not having a comments section :) 21:17:57 *sykopomp* pictures Yelp for jobs. 21:18:26 -!- Guthur [~user@78-0-133-2.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:47 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:18:48 H4ns: maybe they should invest more into not being ashamed of what that comments section could contain, tbh. 21:19:11 sykopomp: "hah" 21:19:41 generally when working for a client you can't go "oh, first I have to start with a framework this or that", or "previous guy sure messed up, I have to refactor and rewrite".. You have to work with whats there, and make it work 21:19:48 H4ns: not unheard of, really. 21:19:59 not as pleasent as hacking on whatever you feel like 21:20:09 maxm: "hah" 21:20:19 (string-capitalize *) 21:22:55 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 21:23:18 dekuked: to come back to your original question: if what you want is hack lisp and you really want it, you can do it for money. there are few jobs, and it will be easier if you're prepared to move. 21:24:30 and a lot of Lispers seem to make the jobs for themselves 21:24:42 sometimes linked to contracting, as a group. 21:25:36 certainly, having real customers with real problems and real money to give you is the best thing. good customers don't care whether you use lisp. 21:26:12 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:12 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:12 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:26:12 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 21:26:31 I just scrolled up and saw a hastable sap discussion, and you totally should not store saps directly as keys in a hashtable. 21:26:54 sshirokov: yea I figured have to get them as ints instead 21:26:57 They are only comparable if they are (eq ), otherwise even identical SAPs will fail every :test 21:27:58 -!- dekuked [~user@mail.kesnermorrissey.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:28:05 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 21:28:24 I've had success using (cffi:pointer-address ..) 21:28:27 And you can't rely on a SAP to stay EQ if the compiler knows that it's a SAP. 21:28:46 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 21:28:48 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 21:28:52 They fail equalp and down 21:29:24 i'm basically adopting same model as commonqt with regards to c++ shared objects 21:29:30 (Some time ago, I found that the compiler will aggressively unbox and rebox SAPs.) 21:29:38 store them once in strong cache, and other copies will be weak-pointers 21:30:35 I've seen some success in CLOS wrapped externals with finalizers 21:30:43 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 21:31:11 sshirokov: yes thats my current model, but once I get into callbacks trouble starts 21:31:16 *sshirokov* nods 21:31:42 The libev wrapper I hacked on uses a callback dispatching into an HT 21:31:52 because for alien-callback to know what object it works with, you have to close over the object 21:33:31 https://github.com/sbryant/cl-ev/blob/master/src/ev.lisp -- the *watchers* specifically 21:33:56 so I'll do a hashtable of these objects that made it into lisp side, ahshed by C++ pointer address, then have a single alien-callback for all objects, that finds what its called for by using that hash 21:34:36 and all the rest of the references to C++ objects will be weak-ptrs.. With one final C++ callback from a destructor, that will remhash the strong copy 21:34:53 thanks gonna take a look 21:35:19 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:35:25 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:36:04 It's pretty much the approach you just described, but it's wrapping a C API 21:36:37 And without the weakref 21:36:47 (At least as I remember) 21:37:10 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:19 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-14-176.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:20 Mazingaro [~Tetsuja@host107-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:40:14 Kryztof [~user@78.3.117.144] has joined #lisp 21:41:44 alvis [~user@tx-184-6-180-2.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:32 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0A8E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:48:25 Whitesqu_ [~notwhites@94.242.146.241] has joined #lisp 21:49:40 -!- Whitesquall [~notwhites@94.242.169.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:50:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-244.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:51:01 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 21:51:04 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-396573.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 21:51:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-244.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:53:28 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:32 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-410986.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:54:16 is it possible to set a breakpoint on a specific assembly instruction in sbcl? 21:55:05 I'd do that with gdb. 21:56:06 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053000185.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:56:29 I think it's possible, but it's possibly not documented, not supported, not easy, or all three. 21:56:48 Also possibly not working except for TRACE :ENCAPSULATE NIL. 21:58:02 Spion [~spion@77.29.254.193] has joined #lisp 21:58:02 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-159-74.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:58:04 pjb: sbcl segfaults when run under gdb 21:58:10 -!- Spion [~spion@77.29.254.193] has quit [Changing host] 21:58:10 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 21:59:13 jasom: Of course it does. That's the normal behavior of the garbage collector. 21:59:59 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA069E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:00:21 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-159-74.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:00:59 nyef: but it doesn't seem to make any progress even with handle SIGSEGV nostop noprint 22:01:34 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-171-160.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:01:55 jasom: handle SIGSEGV nostop noprint pass 22:02:03 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3359.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:02:03 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:02:04 foom: thanks I'm an idiot 22:04:01 well actually now that I will ensure that only 1 reference from lisp side exists, and the callbacks will be all shared, I don't really need weak objects after all 22:04:38 -!- Aribe [~Aribe@202.Red-83-42-45.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:07:58 -!- djanatyn [~user@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 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