00:00:04 -!- greaver [~jo@41.138.11.188] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:52 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176173615.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 00:07:00 Does anyone know of an easy way to determine the local IP or HW address in lisp? 00:07:02 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A25DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:21 there's no way 00:07:28 Tjat 00:07:37 that.... can't be true. 00:07:51 CL doesn't specify networking 00:08:01 Well. Then does anyone know of a DIFFICULT way? 00:08:05 no platform independent way 00:08:09 gotcha. 00:08:17 I'll keep looking. 00:08:56 what do you mean by local IP? 00:08:59 many libs will have it though and it could just be parsed out of the standard platform utilities 00:09:03 jack_rabbit: on what OS ? 00:09:05 jack_rabbit: there is a platform independent way; open a socket to somewhere and read the address of the local side 00:09:14 he means a working network adapter 00:09:28 jasom: no 00:09:33 I've got a socket open with plokami's pcap wrapper. 00:09:36 iolib for example should have 00:09:38 Can I read from that? 00:10:08 it or some other lisp lib almost certainly covers all three major platforms 00:10:14 jasom: that's not guaranteed to work 00:10:18 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:10:27 fe[nl]ix: really? 00:11:11 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.251.249] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.95.1] 00:11:24 also the question is somewhat ill posed, naive, as there could be more than one, could be virtualized, etc. 00:12:25 (drakma:http-request "http://ifconfig.me/ip") => "x.66.8.x" 00:13:28 That relies on an external system, though. 00:13:35 that will fail without a connection to internet 00:13:56 fe[nl]ix: well of course, if it's not connected, it doesn't have an IO 00:13:57 P 00:14:09 I have a local IP 00:14:16 Even without internet 00:14:39 i have three, lo with 127.0.0.1, eth0 with 10.0.0.1, and wlan0 with 192.168.1.3 00:14:43 which one is right? 00:14:56 lo is virtual 00:15:09 jack_rabbit: on Linux, you can either parse the output of "ip" or open a netlink socket and request that info 00:15:11 etho is ethernet and wlan is wireless. 00:15:29 thank you, and i was wondering what those things meant 00:15:33 netlink socket? 00:16:13 I think stassats' point is that your question is ill-defined, jack_rabbit. 00:16:34 jack_rabbit: what about when eth0 has no ip address since I'm running a virtual bridge device in top of it? 00:16:57 jack_rabbit: what about ipv6 where each interface may easily have 4 or 5 addresses? 00:17:01 jack_rabbit: a computer has several interface. Each interface may have several IP addresses! 00:17:14 jack_rabbit: man netlink 00:17:22 jack_rabbit: http://paste.lisp.org/+2ROV 00:17:23 I have no idea about how to handle that, or desire to. I would say that those states would be error states, as far as I'm concerned. 00:17:31 jack_rabbit: type: ip addr RET at your shell! 00:17:55 why do you need to know your local address? 00:17:59 jack_rabbit: What is it you're actually trying to do? 00:18:46 I'm trying to get ahold of either the IP address of a local network interface, or the hardware address, so I can continue writing my packet headers. 00:18:55 (drakma:http-request "http://ifconfig.me/ip") won't give you any IP address of your computer in general: in general, your computer is behind a NAT server, and that request will give you the IP address on the WAN interface of your ROUTER, not anything related to your computer. 00:18:57 (I'm hand-crafting packet headers) 00:19:17 pjb: my router is related to my computer! 00:19:31 not on the local network, it isn't 00:19:46 at least, the external address isn't 00:20:16 -!- passionke [~Administr@58.100.73.208] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:20:28 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176173615.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:20:29 jack_rabbit: if you know one of your interfaces, you can get its IP address with FFI: http://www.geekpage.jp/en/programming/linux-network/get-ipaddr.php 00:20:38 jack_rabbit: in that case jasom's method might work. open a connection to your destination, and the kernel will set the local address to one that will be routed to that destination 00:22:05 that's why I suggested it; if you have a destination you can find out which ip address is the default route to that destination by opening a socket; anything else starts to get complicated 00:22:08 still, what do you really do that requires this? 00:22:27 also, it's dead-simple to code 00:22:53 So my options for socket-opening then come down to iolib? 00:23:13 any socket library should work 00:23:13 jack_rabbit: yes. Or do the FFI yourself. 00:23:35 how difficult is FFI? I've never done it before. 00:23:53 there's also usocket 00:25:39 jack_rabbit: it's not difficult, it's inconvenient. 00:26:18 jack_rabbit: when calling a C function, you're calling into a non controled environment, therefore you may easily get sigsegv faults or damage the memory or whatever other nasal dragon. 00:26:23 or demon. 00:26:43 jack_rabbit: but that's not difficult, it's just like in C. 00:26:59 gotcha. 00:27:19 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:27:26 That'll be the last resort. From the looks of things, all major distributions of CL have socket support. 00:27:38 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:08 -!- emit [~emit@unaffiliated/emit] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:28:09 jack_rabbit: and usocket is basically a portable wrapper around them 00:28:54 cool. I'll try that right now then. 00:31:24 emit [~emit@unaffiliated/emit] has joined #lisp 00:33:07 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:59 eric-atl [~Adium@c-71-56-71-17.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:39 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:26 -!- eric-atl [~Adium@c-71-56-71-17.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:46:41 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:48:46 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 00:50:10 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 00:53:02 -!- daedalus_ [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:53:02 -!- daedalus__ [~daedalus@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:57:45 It appears I need to connect to a host before i can get my IP? 01:04:09 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176173615.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 01:04:40 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 01:12:29 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:12:37 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25:26 -!- Radium [~carbon@117.203.16.167] has quit [] 01:27:10 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.115.60.47] has quit [Quit: paul0] 01:28:41 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@arh2050.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:32:23 -!- replore__ [~replore@EM117-55-65-136.emobile.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:55 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p54839E9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:35:50 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176173615.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:36:10 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:37:10 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has joined #lisp 01:42:32 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 01:46:56 docAvid [~user@74-94-233-157-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:59 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.66.155] has joined #lisp 01:50:16 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176173615.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 01:51:21 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-137-26.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 01:52:11 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.195.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:52:15 replore_ [~replore@EM117-55-65-136.emobile.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 01:57:17 -!- replore_ [~replore@EM117-55-65-136.emobile.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:57:41 kanru`` [~user@61-228-148-2.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:58 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-124-83.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:33 jr: it's more arbitrary than you imagine. There are a set of conventions that make it available to you in the sources I mentioned. You're making a bigger thing out of it than it is. 02:01:51 in the standard case it will be the ipv4 address of the first ethernet adapter, typically "eth0" on unix. but there is a lot of variation 02:02:36 will what you want to do be routed through it, though? 02:02:54 in practice it's determined programmatically and operationally 02:03:11 in practice, you don't need to know, the os will know and do its thing 02:03:15 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:25 yes, that's what I meant 02:03:51 you generally only to need to know if you're setting it 02:04:14 or addressing it 02:04:29 or if you're the OS 02:05:13 and not therefore, in general in lisp 02:05:42 well, not in general in any programming language 02:07:10 anything recent happening with lisp OS? 02:07:25 (last year or two) 02:08:52 nope 02:09:22 ah 02:15:41 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 02:18:25 booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:38 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Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:35 <[6502]> stassats: i've been asking also in emacs, but since i3 was suggested me here I supposed i3/emacs pair was common among lispers 08:52:53 doesn't change anything 08:53:12 <[6502]> stassats: it was worth a shot :-) 08:57:39 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:58:09 -!- [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:01:56 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-121-60.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 09:02:29 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:10:29 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129057010.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:11:37 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 09:14:38 kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 09:14:47 my sbcl is crashing when doing ffi. how am I suppose to debug it? 09:15:08 kmee: "think hard" 09:15:41 ? 09:15:54 i have no idea. 09:16:03 it's a lisp program, so i can't use gdb 09:16:13 you can't? 09:16:42 how would i use gdb? 09:17:08 backtrace shows a line in a .c file where the problem happened. how will that work when program is written in lisp? 09:17:46 kmee: it won't work for Lisp code, but for that you have lisp-side debugger 09:18:48 everything is lisp code. whether i'm calling C functions or not 09:19:42 but GDB can follow into non-lisp functions if that's where the crash happens 09:19:57 unless you already have some nice message like "GC invariant lost" or similar 09:20:10 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 09:21:06 you shouldn't discard debugging techniques in your head, do everything you can, see what sticks 09:21:58 -!- theos is now known as Guest65478 09:22:25 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:23:06 so you're saying i should do gdb sbcl? 09:23:07 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Client Quit] 09:23:22 kmee: (1) what's the exact error message? (2) you can use gdb, eg. "call lisp_backtrace(100)" (3) my ESP powers tell me that you're likely eiher passing a pointer to a lisp object to C side, and C holds on to it while the GC moves it --> boom or you're scribbling over lisp objects in C due to miscalculated array length or similar --> boom 09:23:39 "gdb -p pid-of-sbcl" 09:23:54 -!- Guest65478 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:24:39 also, seriously, "think hard" is a very efficient method of debugging FFI stuff 09:24:59 i use it to debug everything 09:25:10 sudo gdb -p pid-of-sbcl # on certain flavors of linux 09:25:26 why sudo? 09:26:48 -!- theos is now known as Guest10652 09:26:48 -!- Guest10652 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:27:15 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:28:31 i have at least one installation where ptrace is prohibit even from the same uid 09:29:12 iirc you need to be in the same process group, or something 09:29:45 "security measures" -- so i need to use more sudo... *sigh* 09:30:16 bbl 09:30:18 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-9-21.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:30:32 if I connect with gdb -p I can't type anything in the repl. am I suppose to connect after it crashed? 09:30:34 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 09:30:54 issue "continue" 09:32:16 gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:e498:c030:eaea:2a66] has joined #lisp 09:34:46 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 09:38:58 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AFA0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:59 francogrex [~user@109.130.108.221] has joined #lisp 09:40:31 anyone already tried to build the ecl on android (as posted by ageneau) ? 09:40:48 francogrex: there's some github repo 09:41:56 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.66.141] has joined #lisp 09:41:59 https://github.com/ageneau/ecl-android this 09:42:21 but just that i'm totally naive, I have my samsung and my PC then what? 09:43:29 did you get android SDK up and running 09:43:30 ? 09:44:46 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-1-86.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:49:06 stassats: yes that I have installed 09:49:23 and ndk 09:49:53 its the sdk tools 09:50:10 ndk not yet 09:50:12 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:50:32 stassats, btw, concerning fix for commonqt+fresh ccl you was talking about yesterday: I've fixed it some time ago ;) https://github.com/ivan4th/commonqt/commit/56e5e596d01cf395c57857c83191ff1dd06c9eef 09:51:24 my commit message is better 09:52:34 sdk doesn't run! 09:53:27 stassats: probably. BTW, there are some rather serious problems with QtWebKit in Qt 4.8.0/4.8.1, CCL crashes with sigsegv on exit from programs that use it. I'm thinking about bisecting the problem using Qt git repository 09:53:53 francogrex: you will need NDK, aspirin, and bottle of rum/vodka 09:53:59 lol 09:54:19 way to promote a healthy lifestyle 09:57:04 stassats: I've made my own CL-based phantomjs replacement for testing some of my company's web servers, but was severely disappointed by what happened to it when using newer Qt... 09:57:56 well, just use the older ones 09:58:26 I do. But newer Qt has WebKit 2 which is better 09:58:48 (for HTML5 stuff) 09:59:31 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 10:01:33 bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 10:02:01 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:02:57 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-126-74.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:49 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:02 Siegfried1991 [~Siegfried@37.113.164.167] has joined #lisp 10:04:26 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-139-119.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:45 -!- springz [~springz@199.119.206.50] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:05:26 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-124-83.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:05:49 -!- Siegfried1991 [~Siegfried@37.113.164.167] has left #lisp 10:07:39 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 10:07:49 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-126-74.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:08:14 it would be easier if there are binaries available already 10:09:39 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:10:44 why not take CCL then? 10:11:01 ccl has android binaries already? 10:11:41 yes 10:12:07 http://xach.livejournal.com/298400.html ? 10:12:36 no, you can't find ccl binaries on xach's livejournal 10:15:45 well the download page is here: http://ccl.clozure.com/download.html 10:15:57 no mention of android 10:16:34 you're not trying hard enough 10:17:14 trying or searching? 10:17:33 both 10:19:02 I think ecl was the first port and according to google the easiest 10:19:39 so, what of it? 10:20:26 I don't think there are ready made binaries that you can just download and run on the phone (my S txt phone) 10:20:40 of ecl? no idea 10:20:54 ccl, there you go http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/browser/trunk/androidarm/ccl 10:22:49 nipra [~nipra@122.177.217.176] has joined #lisp 10:22:55 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:24:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-249.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:25:12 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 10:30:03 Radium_ [~carbon@117.203.16.167] has joined #lisp 10:32:21 let's try it 10:32:49 have you rooted your phone already? 10:33:02 m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.205] has joined #lisp 10:36:29 I'm puuting aarmcl.image on the phon's ds card and clicking on it! 10:36:40 eh? 10:36:43 it's hopeless 10:37:13 doing random things won't get you anywhere 10:38:14 CCL doesn't work as android applicatio 10:38:17 *application 10:39:01 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-139-119.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 10:40:04 p_l so how does it work then? 10:40:30 as a command line application 10:40:33 like it usually does 10:41:14 and to run it from android which application to use is there a cmd/bash? 10:41:36 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27100107.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:42:04 why don't you do a little bit of your own research? 10:42:40 (and don't forget to root the phone first) 10:42:41 strange_ [~behelit@c213-89-59-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:43:05 by Q&A is a research, that's how I get info. 10:43:20 i ask on #android and here for the ccl 10:43:38 i didn't as anyone and i got ccl working on my phone 10:43:40 ask 10:44:04 stassats: not all of us are as gifted 10:44:34 gifted to do their own research? apparently not 10:45:43 -!- gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:e498:c030:eaea:2a66] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:55:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-242-247.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 10:55:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-242-247.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 10:55:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:58:06 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 10:59:17 slowly getting there, i got an emulator to run on my phone 10:59:39 emulator on a phone? 11:01:13 http://www.appbrain.com/app/android-terminal-emulator/jackpal.androidterm 11:01:17 it's a term 11:01:38 -!- strange_ [~behelit@c213-89-59-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:02:22 a terminal emulator 11:02:43 are you planning on doing everything from the phone? 11:02:48 and not through ADB? 11:03:04 yes, but I need to root the phone because I get permission denied when i type su or try to run apps 11:03:27 i heard somebody said earlier that you need to root the phone 11:03:51 -!- dca [~user@178.252.127.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:03:54 stassats: yes all from the phone. I know you said it, I am looking how for my phone specifically 11:04:27 dca [~user@178.252.127.251] has joined #lisp 11:11:27 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 11:13:05 strange_ [~behelit@c-5eeaaab6-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 11:19:22 ok, I have installed quicklisp and for a start split-sequence and the example works. all with CLISP. now how do I compile the lisp files? I thought QL would do this automatically, but it doesn't 11:20:28 Houl: you want to build a standalone application? 11:21:13 Houl: if that is what you want to do, you need to "save an image". on clisp, the ext:saveinitmem function is used to do that. 11:21:22 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 11:21:22 er, no, not yet 11:21:27 I just want to get started 11:21:45 then what is it precisely what you want to do? 11:21:56 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 11:22:06 you start clisp, you load your systems, you load your example code, you call functions and the results are expected. 11:22:27 so far, yes 11:22:37 Houl: now, what? :) 11:22:48 what would you like to do next? 11:22:58 until now, I didn't bother with compiling my code ... because it was pretty simple so far 11:23:20 but when using libraries -- I should use compiled versions of them, or ? 11:23:37 you already use compiled versions. quicklisp compiles them for you. 11:23:55 I expected to find *.fas files ... but didn't find any ... hmm 11:24:13 they're located in your quicklisp/ directory 11:24:19 ah, no. 11:24:30 they're in your ~/.cache/common-lisp/ 11:25:03 there is only asdf.fas 11:25:28 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has left #lisp 11:25:43 try using find. but you can also do something productive instead :) 11:25:49 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 11:26:10 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 11:26:12 ok, it's not so important then ... 11:26:51 no. you can assume that everyhing is comppiled. common lisp is mostly a compiled language. 11:27:09 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-209.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:27:11 clisp in fact has an interpreter, but many other implementations do not. they compile everything. 11:28:44 ... I then tried (asdf:compile-system :split-sequence) and it reported no errors, no warnings 11:29:12 use (ql:quickload ) instead 11:29:25 that will automatically fetch dependencies if they're not already there. 11:29:47 yes, I did (ql:quickload "split-sequence") before 11:29:59 you can do that again 11:30:18 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:30:45 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 11:31:03 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-171-160.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:32:21 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:36 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 11:32:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:35:43 mucker [~harsha@183.83.209.51] has joined #lisp 11:35:56 ah, found the folder ... below "Anwendungsdaten" completely different folder ... ok thx. 11:37:52 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:38:40 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-319475.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 11:39:13 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:39:51 -!- theos is now known as Guest60004 11:40:24 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 11:42:04 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-383294.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:42:07 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:42:18 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.108.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:31 -!- Guest60004 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:44:26 snearch [~snearch@f053011051.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:49:48 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 11:50:48 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 11:55:48 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:56:16 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 11:56:57 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0AC8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:01:02 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 12:04:28 -!- froydnj_ [nfroyd@people.mozilla.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:05:08 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-171-160.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 12:06:33 minion: tell Houl about faq 12:06:33 Houl: please see faq: Nikodemus' CL FAQ: http://random-state.net/files/nikodemus-cl-faq.html 12:10:34 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-22-50.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:11:56 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 12:14:30 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:19:13 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-1-86.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 12:19:19 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-107-122-25.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:22:18 hi 12:23:01 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:23:45 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-107-122-25.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:29:53 -!- kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: quit] 12:31:12 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-190-135.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:32:51 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27100107.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:33:25 nikodemus [~nikodemus@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe53dc00-32.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 12:34:16 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 12:35:43 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.200] has joined #lisp 12:36:01 -!- kennyd [kennyd@93-139-60-57.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:40:33 froydnj [nfroyd@people.mozilla.com] has joined #lisp 12:42:29 kennyd [kennyd@93-138-103-254.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 12:43:52 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-190-135.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:45:27 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-139-119.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:28 trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 12:52:49 nikodemus: thanks 12:57:09 i can't figure out why this http://paste.lisp.org/display/129201 conses 12:57:35 if i invoke #'identity instead of #'foo, no consing occurs. 12:58:05 well, this could actually be the optimizer's fault, but i still don't get why this conses. 12:58:26 (more than what'd be needed to allocate the buffers, which are then reused) 12:58:37 if your *count*+(length bla) is a bignum it will cons. 12:58:45 pjb: it is not. 12:59:34 lparallel:receive-result channel2 seems to be blocking concurrent activity in channel1 in the same *kernel*, any tips? 12:59:39 gah, forget it. 12:59:52 the example does not expose the consing that i see. 13:03:25 -!- mucker [~harsha@183.83.209.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:04:07 mucker [~harsha@183.83.209.51] has joined #lisp 13:04:29 -!- Radium_ [~carbon@117.203.16.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:05:11 the consing occurs only when i call find-symbol on one of the filled buffers 13:05:55 is it possible that find-symbol needs to convert the string in order to look it up? 13:06:23 clhs simple-string 13:06:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_smp_st.htm 13:06:54 It's possible. 13:07:02 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:07:03 Notably for reason of normalization of unicode forms. 13:07:23 yeah, it coerces the name to a simple-string. 13:07:24 Or just hashing may cons. 13:07:26 hrm. 13:07:43 -!- strange_ [~behelit@c-5eeaaab6-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:07:53 a character array with a fill pointer is not a simple-string? 13:08:09 it may be, but isn't required to be 13:08:14 (and in sbcl it isn't) 13:08:18 I don't understant this insistance on simple-vector and simple-string. Converting takes time and space! 13:08:44 nikodemus: ok, that clears it up. thanks 13:08:57 but find-symbol could be written so that it doesn't have to coerce, really 13:09:04 it would be a bit tricky, but possible 13:09:28 i think i can work around this. 13:10:39 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 13:11:32 -!- mucker [~harsha@183.83.209.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:11:36 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:13:19 nice :) 13:17:17 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.217.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:18:55 so, am I the only user of lparallel now active here? pitty :( 13:19:58 It's a great joy! 13:20:13 You are a pioneer! You are our lparallel specialist! A reference! 13:20:29 hehe 13:20:40 to be there I still need to figure out some things 13:20:50 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0AC8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:21:00 that's where being the channel's pioneer ain't so comfy 13:21:27 i thought maxm had something to do with lparallel 13:21:38 maxm: you here? 13:21:54 nikodemus: more as in inspiration to other guy's thought process.. 13:21:59 but maybe i misunderstood something 13:23:01 I checked out lparallel, was initially "wow", then benchmarked against my cilk, and was like "meh", sent author email.. one month later he came out with new idea that comes close to cilk performance, while maintaining all lispiness 13:23:13 ; In PRUN: Unused lexical variable WORKER-CHANNEL 13:23:13 ; In PRUN: Undeclared free variable WORKER-CHANNEL 13:23:19 that's news to me here :) 13:23:38 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 13:23:44 cilk? 13:24:14 dim, paste code, or open issue on github.. Also use ,slime-delete-system-fasls and do ,load-system 13:24:20 as he is changing macros very rapidly 13:24:41 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 13:24:55 I do (ql:quickload 'clbench) from time to time 13:24:57 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 13:25:09 dim: cilk is task stealing algorithm initially done for C, google cilk.. I have a CL implementation, which is ok for my needs, but achieves its goal through massive code walking rewriting 13:26:29 *maxm* plans to switch his code to lparallel once I'm finishing with other parts 13:26:38 maxm: my problem is that receive-result is blocking another channel 13:26:42 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:27:05 I set two channels, one for the main workers and another one to host a single thread currently, a monitor thread 13:27:07 dim: talk to lparallel guy, I'm subscribed to his github, and he responds to issues within a day or so 13:27:24 *maxm* had not tried advanced lparallel features other then giving it a quick benchmark 13:27:35 I want the workers to push in a queue and the monitor to pop the queue and display things, for now with format, later with some ajax things and the javascript flot lib 13:27:57 I'm not sure about having an issue other than understanding the docs here yet 13:28:08 I would say what you need is a custom "kernel" 13:28:32 from what I understand the "kernel" represents the pool of workers and stuff, see if it has any generic function you can add after/around methods on 13:29:03 or actually best way, is to open issue on lparallel github, and ask "I want to do this or that", and author will tell you the best way to do it 13:29:32 -!- yeltzooo7 [~yeltzooo@ec2-50-18-131-205.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: changing servers] 13:29:40 yeah ok 13:30:03 its quite a bit of luck to discover a project in active development, where you can influence the outcome, rather then discover awesome but in-active project.. so use teh opportunity 13:30:23 yeltzooo [~yeltzooo@ec2-50-18-131-205.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 13:30:42 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:30:58 maxm: flawed logic 13:32:02 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.95.1] 13:33:00 fe[nl]ix: you going to expand on that? 13:34:41 if you find an inactive project and take over you'll have more influence on its development than on an active project 13:35:50 fe[nl]ix: well I found that once there is no "central" maintainer, the project get forked to death, with it being hard ti figure out which fork is the most advanced one 13:38:23 unless original author designates the "heir" so to speak or adds collaborators and gives it over to them 13:39:17 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:39:34 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:39:59 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 13:41:08 the best opportunity still is to be able to use software that is documented, works for the intended use case and does not require communication with the author to be useful 13:41:22 -!- arrsim [~user@ppp118-209-64-7.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:41:27 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:42:55 H4ns: imho collaboration / early usage input from users, results in better feature set, then author going on along, then coming up with finished product 13:42:57 H4ns: +1 13:43:15 maxm: I agree but here I don't really want to be one of the early users 13:43:54 even though death by thousand forks can happen, if someone actually steps up as a maintainer, in a community the size of CL programmers it tends to stick 13:45:39 ok, here's how to make a non-buzy wait-loop on a channel, it seems 13:45:41 (lp:submit-timeout monit-channel 2 'timeout) 13:45:41 (lp:receive-result monit-channel))) 13:46:08 sammi`_ [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-ftqlsjukewlmalwq] has joined #lisp 13:46:35 it seems that sleep might be putting the whole thing to sleep rather than just the current thread? 13:47:56 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:51:45 (format t "~{~a~^, ~}" nil) can't be responsible right? 13:51:47 -!- rson [~randy@c-68-32-170-89.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:52:20 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-100-199.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 13:52:28 because just fixing that fixed the whole thing apparently. 13:52:42 dim if you do a lot of output 13:52:53 yeah it's in debug mode 13:52:58 dim CCL uses locks around streams by default 13:53:01 (format t "monitor: ~d executed ~a.~%" thread-id params))))) 13:53:05 I'm now doing that, see 13:53:07 so you may be synchronising yourself over the output buffer 13:53:17 the ~a used to be ~{~a~} 13:53:57 it seems the list was an int in fact 13:54:10 so that might be all on me, but debugging was... strange 13:54:13 could be it thrown an error in the other thread? 13:54:18 you use CCL? 13:54:23 yes 13:54:33 coz in SBCL error in another thread still pops out debugger 13:54:53 verify you actually getting debugger if you have error in another thread.. ie spawn a thread that does division by zero as a test 13:55:13 it happened to me a lot while coding that little program 13:55:18 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@164-177-155-66.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:55:18 ah ok 13:55:30 so I think I know what happens in certain cases when a sub-thread is dealing with errors 13:55:45 plus there's a whole API in lparallel to handle sub-threads conditions 13:56:21 then I have no idea, other then maybe some thread got stuck still doing stuff once you killed your entire thing? 13:56:37 *maxm* always has CPU monitor running to just have basic sanity check that all workers have stopped 13:58:46 Radium_ [~carbon@117.203.16.167] has joined #lisp 14:00:00 so ok the sleep calls are not impacting other threads 14:00:14 the problem was dealing with some run time conditions in subthreads 14:00:17 hmm only difference I can see is that ~{~a~^,~} thing will go into forever loop with circular list, while simply ~a will not, if *print-circle* is t 14:00:45 the list happened to be a single float number 14:00:57 so I guess I should have seen a type error there 14:01:05 and it was somehow eaten by lparallel 14:01:47 yea I did not go into its condition code, you need to figure it out by yourself.. My preference is for errors in other threads to simply pop debugger while I'm developing 14:05:07 hi 14:05:26 how can I search for a function in a package? find-symbol? 14:07:44 monitor: 1 did EXECUTE in 275.0 µs. 14:07:44 monitor: 2 did EXECUTE in 306.0 µs. 14:07:51 maxm: all is now working. 14:08:27 now to aggregate timings in the monitor thread in order to publish summaries at 0.5s intervals rather than as I receive data 14:08:56 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:57 -!- ASau` [~user@95-25-227-191.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:09:36 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:25 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-174-096-171-160.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:12:27 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-410738.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:12:31 ASau` [~user@95-25-227-191.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:12:32 Posterdati: starting your search from what, the name of a specific symbol or the idea that you hope some functionality exists? 14:13:02 no 14:13:24 I need a function to return a function starting from the name in a string 14:15:28 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-319475.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:16:54 I think symbol-function in addition to find-symbol may do the trick 14:17:28 -!- hongminh1e is now known as hongminhee 14:18:21 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:18:43 (do-symbols (s p) (when (and (fboundp s) (not (macro-function s)) (not (special-operator-p s)) (prefixp "YOUR-PREFIX" (symbol-name s))) (print s))) 14:19:20 Vivitron`: in a function I placed a (find-symbol function-name) with function-name as string, but it returns nil even the function is there 14:19:27 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-18-66.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:50 Posterdati: did you get the case right? 14:19:55 find-symbol with a single argument searchs in *package*. 14:20:45 Vivitron`: lower case and upper case are the same 14:20:56 No, they're not. 14:21:07 pjb: I tried lower and upper I mean 14:21:13 (do-symbols (s p) (when (and (fboundp s) (not (macro-function s)) (not (special-operator-p s)) (prefixp (string-upcase "YOUR-PREFIX") (string-upcase (symbol-name s)))) (print s))) 14:22:36 Posterdati: but just (apropos "YOUR-PREFIX") should give you good results. 14:23:17 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:36 pjb: but I need an object to exec 14:23:47 ok. 14:24:52 (defun find-first-function-with-prefix (prefix package) (do-symbols (s package) (when (and (fboundp s) (not (macro-function s)) (not (special-operator-p s)) (prefixp (string-upcase "YOUR-PREFIX") (string-upcase (symbol-name s)))) (return-from find-first-function-with-prefix s))) (lambda (&rest args) (declare (ignore args)) (error "No function with prefix ~S in package ~A" prefix package))) 14:25:05 (funcall (find-first-function-with-prefix "SIN" "CL") 42) 14:25:09 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1279647089.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:25:14 s/"YOUR-PREFIX"/prefix/g 14:27:46 Posterdati: funnyly enough. I write such a function yesterday 14:27:58 loke: :) 14:28:17 why I just can't use find-symbol? 14:28:23 I was just about to ask a question here for a good algorithm to order the candidate functions in order of "best match" 14:28:44 Posterdati: mine searches all packages, where the search term is a substring of the function name 14:29:26 Posterdati: if you have the name right and the package right, find-symbol should definitely return the symbol 14:30:01 This is mine: 14:30:02 http://code.google.com/p/docbrowser/source/browse/src/search.lisp#25 14:30:56 Vivitron`: in the package I've got: simple-switch-2 and diode-0, (find-symbol "DIODE-0") returns DIODE-0 :INTERNAL, (find-symbol "SIMPLE-SWITCH-2") returns NIL NIL 14:31:37 Posterdati: then there is no such symbol in *PACKAGE* 14:32:23 if I use (find-symbol "DIODE-0" 'circuit-solver) ==> NIL NIL 14:32:26 Posterdati: (symbol-package 'simple-switch-2) may help debug 14:32:54 ok 14:33:16 Vivitron`: why these two functions stay in different packages, they are all in one file 14:33:56 loke: a few days ago stassats pointed out slime-fuzzy-complete for autocompletion that does search style ranking, I've been very impressed 14:34:02 symbol-package returns same package for all 14:34:20 Vivitron`: yes. I want something like that. If not exactly that 14:35:39 ahh... it's actually performed on the Lisp side. That might make things simpler 14:36:36 asvil [~asvil@178.121.228.226] has joined #lisp 14:38:19 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129057010.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 14:41:59 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053011051.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:43:46 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.66.155] has joined #lisp 14:44:31 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@90.150.174.200] has joined #lisp 14:45:01 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1279647089.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 14:45:03 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-45-242.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:48:32 :( 14:50:55 (let* ((entry (gethash thread-id timings))) 14:50:55 (setf entry (cons param entry))) 14:51:15 any reason why this wouldn't work as intended, meaning accumulating values into an hash entry? 14:51:18 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 14:52:18 setf changes the variable named ENTRY. 14:52:30 dim: (push param (gethash thread-id timings '())) 14:52:44 mmm, thx 14:53:04 "mmm" is not encouraging. I would have prefered a "haha!" 14:53:12 hehe 14:53:43 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1279647089.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:53:45 I though that in CL the magic with "places" and setf allowed me the wrong way of doing it 14:54:26 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0AC8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:29 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:04:20 (setf ) ; in (setf entry (cons ...)) the is a local variable, not the hash-table 15:05:08 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.140.8] has joined #lisp 15:05:10 (symbol-macrolet ((entry (gethash thread-id timings))) (setf entry ...)) ; the is a symbol-macro expanding into the GETHASH form, and this does what you want 15:06:28 looking up symbol-macrolet for another case where I'm reusing the gethash expression 3 times 15:07:23 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1279647089.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 15:09:27 it's much better, thx 15:10:12 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has joined #lisp 15:10:17 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@91-67-230-210-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:20:32 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:20:41 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-410738.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:22:57 Posterdati: is this your circuit solver? http://code.google.com/p/circuit/ 15:23:07 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-100-199.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:25:40 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-173-66-213-19.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:32 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-61-68.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:27:38 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-186788.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:27:45 X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 15:29:49 huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has joined #lisp 15:30:48 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:31:39 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 15:33:08 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:13 BeLucid_ [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:37:02 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 15:38:43 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:45:45 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 15:48:06 paul0 [~paul0@189.115.60.47] has joined #lisp 15:49:03 -!- sammi`_ [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-ftqlsjukewlmalwq] has left #lisp 15:50:02 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-1-86.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 15:50:11 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:51:57 francogrex [~user@109.130.108.221] has joined #lisp 15:52:14 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe53dc00-32.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:53:07 i jailbroke my samsung but still gives me permission denied when I try runninf aarmcl from the terminal emulator! 15:53:48 what did you do exactly ? 15:54:28 francogrex: armcl links against glibc, but android uses a different libc. 15:55:14 I have aarmcl and libaarmcl.so on an sd card from http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/browser/trunk/androidarm/ccl 15:55:23 Two options: Install debian in a chroot and run lisp there. 15:55:32 Or follow Gary's instructions on how to build an actual android ccl using the ndk (see the mailing list archives). 15:56:16 lichtblau: I would in that case try to build ecl, but I though the ccl are already android binaries 15:57:06 If published ccl/android binaries exist, I'm not aware of them... The instructions are here: http://clozure.com/pipermail/openmcl-devel/2011-November/013183.html 15:57:27 I don't see how an android tablet could be useful without a debian chroot anyway :-), so that's the obvious route in my view. 15:58:02 that link I gave above are binaries (link from stassats ) 15:59:12 ah, oh, uhm. Let me test... 16:01:57 -!- Radium_ [~carbon@117.203.16.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:02:04 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:02:16 Radium [~carbon@117.203.1.92] has joined #lisp 16:02:40 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 16:04:54 Okay, I wouldn't say that these _work_ for me, but they do link to the right libc. 16:05:22 Which android version are you on? Maybe whoever built these binaries has a newer version than you. 16:05:27 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs78186070.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:07:25 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:47 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.79] has joined #lisp 16:07:55 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:37 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:52 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:10:05 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 16:12:24 I have no idea which version 16:13:45 Homescreen -> Menu button -> "System settings" (or similar) -> "About phone/tablet" -- somewhere on that screen is an android version number. 16:14:17 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 16:14:19 join #emacs 16:14:23 join #emacs-cn 16:14:35 rillo [~patrick@p5DD69D40.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:39 I'm very sorry. 16:15:41 2.3.5 kernel 2.6.35.7 root@DELL #1 16:17:15 do I have to chmod the aarmcl first? 16:18:17 erm. I didn't have to chmod after "svn co", but if you downloaded in a way that didn't preserve permissions, then the answer would be "yes", I'd say. :-) 16:18:25 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 16:18:46 -!- xjrn [~innocuous@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:09 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@91-67-230-210-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:21:32 -!- rillo [~patrick@p5DD69D40.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 16:21:42 ... also check that you didn't download to a filesystem mounted noexec 16:23:50 lichtblau: yes to an sdcard, it's probably because of that 16:25:19 rillo1 [~patrick@p5DD69D40.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:32 francogrex: if you have root access, move it to /system/ somewhere 16:29:27 can I have another REPL from slime/CCL when the first one is blocked? 16:29:29 gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-73-141.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:30:23 yes 16:30:32 how do I do that? M-x slime-connect? 16:32:37 oh. it seems I have a huge amount of crap still running in there 16:32:43 I'd better restart 16:32:45 metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 16:33:09 before you block the repl you must create a new one 16:33:48 dim: http://paste.lisp.org/+2ROZ 16:35:35 thx 16:37:53 -!- metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:39:21 Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has joined #lisp 16:40:32 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:47 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:43:14 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:44:57 -!- gffa_ is now known as gffa 16:46:41 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:47:03 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-108-200-140-133.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:18 Kryztof: herep 16:50:05 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1279647089.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:51:42 dim: when playing around with threads and pools of workers and things of similar bent, I found it handy to have (kill-all-threads) or such utility function that cleans them all up... You have to give your threads a common name, so you filter it out from (bt:all-threads) list 16:52:03 lparallel provides tools for that yes 16:52:09 ah cool 16:52:39 end-kernel &key wait --- Sets `*kernel* to nil and ends all workers gracefully. 16:52:50 kill-tasks task-category &key dry-run, also 16:54:44 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-73-141.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 16:55:34 working ok now, though :) 16:56:33 dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-184-119.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:29 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-14-176.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:37 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:01:28 now that it's in the system folder when run: "cpu doesn't support required features" great! 17:04:08 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 17:04:59 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.108.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:53 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:17 ... I'd say that's an applaudable case of a meaningful error message really 17:10:09 -!- alvis` [~user@tx-184-6-180-2.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:11:17 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-18-66.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:13:00 -!- rillo1 [~patrick@p5DD69D40.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:13:45 mucker [~harsha@183.83.227.117] has joined #lisp 17:15:41 Houl: yes 17:15:50 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:16:42 Houl: sorry I was out 17:18:08 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:19:36 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1279647089.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 17:20:08 rillo1 [~patrick@p5DD69D40.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:39 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 17:27:01 -!- bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 17:27:47 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:41 nikodemus: heh your last commit to swank-sbcl.lisp, is a use case for for my hopefully soonish to be released syntaxic lisp font-lock... http://i.imgur.com/y9OS1.png 17:29:45 francogrex: your ARM has ARMv5 instruction set? 17:30:12 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 17:31:33 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 17:31:41 -!- tensorpudding_ is now known as tensorpudding 17:34:19 maxm: what is that screenshot supposed to showcase? 17:35:17 madnificent: it introduces new faces for syntax elements of lisp, such as condition face, consequent face, otherwise-face, object-face 17:35:20 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1279647089.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:36:31 madnificent: then it highlights IF/COND/CASE/WHEN/UNLESS/WITH-SLOTS/MULTIPLE-VALUE-BIND and friends accordinly 17:37:31 maxm: will i be able to supply hints for the macros i write? 17:37:58 *madnificent* likes his repl to help him whenever it can, he tends to be a bit of a retard from time to time 17:38:05 maxm: well, more like a show-case of how i have too many slime trees around, and don't always use the one i think i do... 17:38:44 madnificent: hints are different from highlighting, hints are handled in slime-argslist contribution 17:39:44 -!- rillo1 [~patrick@p5DD69D40.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:40:11 *maxm* is bad at choosing colors, but idea had grown on me.. Tried editing code without it, and it was like you lost some sense 17:40:57 I mostly going to release it so someone can come up with better color combination :-) 17:42:17 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:43:36 so, back to hunchentoot and publishing internal states in a web page in ajax, what's the classic way to publish information from an application thread to a web request thread worker in hunchentoot? 17:43:48 maxm: i mean: i want to give you hints so it gets highlighted correctly 17:45:25 dim: well, there are things like websockets which they're trying to push forward but aren't stable at all. the easiest solution that actually works is probably polling from js and returning a json document in hunchentoot. then again, there's the issue about the amount of connections you may open to a webserver (if your browser follows the spec). 17:45:30 madnificent: if it follows one of the standard "archetypes" then it will be configurable, otherwise you can write your own parser to mark the entries.. The standard archetypes are bind-like-form-with-optional-object, cond/case-like-form and cond-consq-like-form 17:46:47 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-18-66.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:05 madnificent: that's for a live monitoring thing so I don't expect more than a handful of connection, typical number would be, well, 1. The question is all about where to find the information to publish in json. I prefer my multi-thread not to rely on global shared mutable structures too much... 17:47:13 and I wouldn't know how to implement one, also 17:47:16 *dim* bbl 17:54:04 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:55:46 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:57:54 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-190-135.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:20 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-190-135.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:59:46 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-52-6.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:59:50 dim: no, the problem is that the HTTP1.1 spec apparently says that a client can only have two open connections. which is a bitch if you want to do polling. 18:00:15 dim: what kind of monitoring do you want/need to do? 18:00:56 maxm: this type of thing could promote the discovery of macro patterns. which reminds me that i should read let over lambda 18:04:33 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:05:43 -!- joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:08:58 strange_ [~behelit@c213-89-59-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:09:56 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 18:16:34 let over lambda is awesome 18:17:03 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1279647089.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 18:17:37 did it damage your brain already? 18:17:39 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:17:44 yes 18:17:44 zolaric [4651872b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.81.135.43] has joined #lisp 18:17:49 i got nothing out of it. 18:17:55 but it could be me. 18:17:56 i love all lisp literature 18:18:24 but that book was pretty revealing about some of the capabilities of lisp 18:18:27 kruhft: you only read the parentheses? 18:18:49 joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has joined #lisp 18:18:56 i only program in https://github.com/cammckinnon/Parenthetic 18:19:17 i like purity ;-) 18:19:59 you better be careful, after LoL people start writing the most asinine macros 18:20:37 like this? https://github.com/kruhft/cl-active-variables 18:21:01 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-108-200-140-133.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:37 yes 18:21:42 :D 18:22:58 considering that a common operation on variables is binding, i don't see how this is useful 18:23:16 just an experiment 18:23:30 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-108-200-140-133.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:23:34 i saw the feature in ksh and wondered how difficult it would be to do in CL 18:23:58 -!- gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-108-200-140-133.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:24:17 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-108-200-140-133.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:35 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:28:55 -!- dca [~user@178.252.127.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:58 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.56.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30:36 kruhft: active-variables is idiotic. We have symbol-macros. 18:30:43 dca [~user@178.252.127.251] has joined #lisp 18:30:56 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:26 kruhft: you can take as an axiom that any feature you find in other languages, has been inspired from something in Lisp. There's no point to re-implement in lisp those features: they are already there! 18:31:28 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:32:06 pjb: how can you add a setf hook to symbol-macros? 18:32:41 ok, got it 18:32:47 -!- strange_ [~behelit@c213-89-59-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:32:53 just expand to (access 'x) and add (setf (access 'x)) 18:33:04 -!- two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:33:28 (define-symbol-macro example (duh)) (defun (setf duh) (new-value) (print (list 'hi new-value))) (defun duh () 'old-value) (print example) (setf example 42) --> old-value --> (hi 42) 18:34:00 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-168-46-173.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:35:44 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.250] has joined #lisp 18:38:27 gigamonkey: briefly 18:40:12 Ah, I was just wondering what you thought of the idea that with things like this http://mbostock.github.com/d3/ and this http://square.github.com/cubism/ whether it might be possible to make a web-based R replacement. 18:40:25 a) Totally crazy b) somewhat crazy c) hmmmm 18:41:28 strange_ [~behelit@c213-89-59-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:43:38 why do we want to replace R again? 18:43:40 (b) 18:44:02 madnificent: because it's a horrible language badly implemented. Or that's my understanding. 18:44:09 the difficulty is peopleware 18:44:16 Yeah. It usually is. 18:44:21 it's badly implemented; I'm not so sure it's a horrible language 18:44:39 (and they're slightly unsuckening it, too; there's a byte-code compiler now) 18:44:51 But maybe an R replacement for people who don't yet know or use R but are getting into this whole big-data blah blah blah world. 18:45:11 well, madnificent's question is relevant then 18:45:16 why would we want that? 18:45:32 Because I'm one of those people. ;-) 18:45:48 depending on web technologies doesn't seem like a long term strategies, they seem to jump from one fad to another 18:45:52 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:46:05 s/strategies/strategy/ 18:46:17 why would you rather use some javascripty thing? 18:46:28 I bet the development environment for it would suck a lot more than slime 18:46:36 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 18:46:52 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:24 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:47:34 Kryztof: well, that depends. I'm not sure what I'm imagining. Maybe the language is actually running on the backend with something very like SLIME to let you connect to it. 18:48:07 So maybe my development environment is essentially SLIME but then I can pop up the display stuff in my browser and then when I'm done it's easy to export as a web page to share with anyone. 18:48:18 *gigamonkey* is totally thinking out loud here. 18:49:32 so, right now, I have a comfortable development environment and a horde of other people working and depending on the base system and its libraries 18:49:55 stassats: if you use a bit of sense, you can probably take advantage of web technologies now without tying yourself to them forever. 18:50:10 Kryztof: sure. 18:50:11 I am not enthused by the idea of switching from that to something that has no apparent benefits to me 18:50:27 Totally fair. 18:50:47 pjb: what about on reading? 18:50:48 so, (b). You might not be totally crazy, I don't know -- but I would be if I got all excited about it 18:50:48 But it doesn't do me any good to ask someone who doesn't know anything about R. 18:51:08 how much do you know about R? 18:51:27 A bit. I've been reading The Art of Programming R. 18:51:56 I thought that it was a totally barking language when I started. I was a bit embarrassed when I finally noticed how similar it was to CL :) 18:54:25 I'm in a totally different situation than you: I'm in an environment where everything is web based and I need to explain stuff to people who are familiar with that. Obviously with R I can make pretty pictures and then put them on a web page but that would just be me running stuff and it doesn't seem that there's any great connection between R and the rest of our stack (e.g. big piles of data in a Hadoop cluster) 18:54:41 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:41 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:49 Though I'm sure there are R folks working on that particular problem 18:55:15 there's a relatively nice svg annotation package 18:55:25 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:55:27 lets you add links, javascript etc to svg images 18:55:42 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:56:09 alternatively, maybe the way of thinking about it is to do _analysis_ in R, output data files for visualization, munge them appropriately in Perl, and then feed them to a web browser 18:56:32 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:56:51 anyway, I need to reboot, because I oopsed the machine by taking out a usb drive at exactly the wrong moment. So, good luck :) 18:56:59 Take care. 18:57:17 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:57:24 -!- Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:00:42 gigamonkey: the only usage of R I hear about is PL/R, that is, as a PostgreSQL procedural language 19:00:47 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1279647089.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:00:58 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:01:00 maybe you could have a try at PL/CL (that surprisingly enough I didn't see already existing) 19:01:26 bonus point if you can make the PL/CL thing able to call arbitrary PostgreSQL backend function like you can already do in PL/C 19:02:14 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:02:17 extra bonus point if you can make the PL/CL language trusted (no way to use services on the system from the language itself), or at least offer both trusted and untrusted variants 19:02:49 dim: i think he is after something _completely_ different 19:03:04 dim: but maybe _you_ want write pl/cl :) 19:05:51 -!- zolaric [4651872b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.81.135.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:07:19 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:07:46 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 19:08:10 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 19:08:13 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:17 javascript and big data don't mix right imho 19:08:25 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 19:08:27 even trivial examples kill firefox 19:11:19 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:12:47 H4ns: that'd be kinda cool. (in re pl/cl) 19:12:58 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:13:01 sykopomp: indeed. 19:13:29 -!- mucker [~harsha@183.83.227.117] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:13:41 I wonder how much work really needs to go into doing it. I wonder if you could just embed libecl (or whatever it's called) and be done with it. 19:14:03 there's a PL/Scheme fwiw 19:14:08 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:23 sykopomp: some glue will be required so that the pg runtime conveniently invokes cl functions. 19:14:47 H4ns: I'm wondering about pl/cl yes indeed :) 19:14:50 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-108-200-140-133.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:00 after all there was pl/scheme with guile, already 19:15:36 right 19:15:46 H4ns: the glue is quite easy to write, the more complex part is about type conversions 19:15:55 but you know, I think I might be fine with pl/scheme or pl/py. They're at least better than pl/pgsql 19:16:19 H4ns: which I wrote some chunks of in a familiar codebase. :( 19:16:22 basic types often enough are ok, then you want array support and then composite and then anonymous composite (record) and then arrays of composites 19:16:35 then in, out and in/out parameters, and then support for trigger 19:16:53 so that's a lot of glue code, traditionnaly all in C 19:17:03 dim: i managed to avoid that codebase completely so far :) 19:17:14 CL being, well, CL, I guess it's possible to make it so writing the glue mostly in CL, or at least I woudln't be surprised 19:17:21 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 19:17:48 sykopomp: don't reject plpgsql that quickly, it has SQL as a first class citizen after all. 19:18:19 H4ns: sorry, that codebase being? 19:18:31 dim: you don't want to know :) 19:18:38 dim: I think he was responding to me. And I would gladly reject plpgsql a thousand more times :( 19:18:43 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:18:45 H4ns: hehe, fair enough I guess 19:18:49 dim: uh, yeah 19:19:22 in some cases, albeit a narrow set of those, plpgsql is the best tool available 19:20:03 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:20:10 Hmm... running into this with my hunchentoot:easy-ssl-acceptor, any ideas?: [2012-04-28 14:16:20 [ERROR]] Error while processing connection: A failure in the SSL library occurred on handl\ 19:20:11 e #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #X7FFFE001B2F0) (return code: 1). SSL error queue: 19:21:24 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-128-169.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:40 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:48 http://cvs.pgfoundry.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/plscheme/plscheme/ looks nontrivial, but I wonder how much of plscheme.c could actually just be written using FFI+CL code. 19:22:23 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:22:32 FFI targetting the backend functions? 19:22:39 there's no libbackend 19:22:41 yeah 19:22:57 what do you mean no libbackend? 19:23:20 I though that FFI is mainly about mapping a shared lib entry points into CL 19:23:44 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 19:24:12 you can't directly do that inside a PL/CL, your code lives in the same C kind of "namespace" but you can't directly call the exposed backend functions as if they were a C function 19:24:36 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-139-119.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:24:53 you have to prepare a finfo structure with some information then call e.g. DirectFunctionCall1(fun, arg) or things like that 19:24:55 well, yes. I'm saying that a libplcl.c would still be needed, but i wonder if the bulk of this work can just be done CL-side. You can call CL from C (right?) 19:25:19 for dynamic functions (not in the backend, but defined in any other available PL), you can still call them by using the generic facilities provided by PG 19:25:36 zolaric [4651872b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.81.135.43] has joined #lisp 19:25:48 I don't know about the internals of doing C and CL together, all I've understood is that ECL target exactly this use case 19:25:54 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-108-200-140-133.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:26:32 see http://ecls.wikispaces.com/Easier+Embedding 19:26:55 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-136-69.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:46 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:29:51 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-128-169.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:30:42 alvis [~user@tx-184-6-180-2.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:17 nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has joined #lisp 19:32:14 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:38:09 ah, nevermind, was using http (instead of the correct https) on client end 19:39:11 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 19:47:00 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs78186070.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:49:26 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:50:13 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Out of this 3D] 19:50:49 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-155-179.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:10 -!- kornshell [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/skulls] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:53:38 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-136-69.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:53:57 albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:57 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:53:57 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 19:54:31 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1279647089.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 19:58:45 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-121-60.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:32 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 20:02:13 -!- strange_ [~behelit@c213-89-59-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:04:15 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1279647089.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:04:49 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1279647089.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:08:59 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:09:19 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-108-200-140-133.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 20:09:59 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-184-119.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:14:06 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-28-161-110.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:14:36 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.2] has joined #lisp 20:18:03 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:21:11 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:25 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 20:26:26 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:51 lemoinem [~swoog@232-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:12 -!- rk[afk] is now known as ryankarason 20:33:41 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:36:31 any example idea of an application that would happen to publish internals information with hunchentoot? 20:37:23 what is "internals information"? 20:37:33 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129057010.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:37:47 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-209.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:26 here, it's timings 20:40:50 I'm running a benchmark and I want to use the javascript lib flot to render timings as the bench goes 20:41:36 so I want to include hunchentoot in the benchmark application and render a page with a single flot chart in there and a javascript function to refresh the data from the benchmark app then replot the chart 20:42:26 I already have the bench running and a "monitor" thread that receive "events" from worker threads with the timings, aggregate those (avg) and publish them once in a while (every 0.3s) 20:43:34 now I'd like to find a nice way to have the AJAX call (a simple http request that wants JSON formated output) get the newer set of data (either a whole new table or just the accumulated new data from last time) 20:43:40 stassats: rings some bells? 20:44:45 albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:45 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:44:45 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 20:45:20 Hi all. Is feature "local name for generic functions" available in cl standard? 20:45:52 You mean, like an analog to flet for generic functions? 20:46:39 Bike: Yes, cltl2ed has following forms generic-flet, generic-labels, or with-added-methods 20:47:11 Those were deleted from the standard, no. And I don't think they were ever implemented by anybody anyway? 20:47:30 asvil: could it be symbol-macrolet? 20:47:45 no 20:48:12 do you have trouble with java side or http side? 20:48:18 Bike, dim: thanks. 20:48:32 there are whole libraries for doing this kind of polling, I forgot the technical term for it 20:48:36 dim: I just need to know:) 20:48:47 I meant javascript side or server side 20:49:05 maxm: flot is a nice charting lib that allows easy integration of what I want to do, I'm not worried there (yet) 20:49:13 asvil: more info: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Issues/iss181_w.htm 20:49:19 maxm: the server side in lisp I'm not seeing how to implement yet 20:50:02 n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@178.47.31.241] has joined #lisp 20:50:02 I know how to get the data from all the workers and how to prepare them to be sent out, I don't know how to give them to the hunchentoot thread when it asks for them 20:50:41 I guess I could use another queue from lparallel.queue 20:51:07 hell, no 20:51:19 some bidirectional stream, ala http://weitz.de/flexi-streams/ 20:51:22 well, usually this is hidden by the underlaying lib, where on javascript side you do subscribe(), and give it a callback, and it will call your function when server sends new data 20:51:48 the way server pushes data, is by having a long running keep-alive connection, which just sits idle until data is available 20:51:54 maxm: I'm ok with that part. So say the javascript lib calls into the server at the /newdata url, now what? 20:51:57 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@90.150.174.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:52:15 it needs to have a seqno of the data it had so far 20:52:17 that will call a function registered in the hunchentoot dispatch table 20:52:39 and that function needs to contact the monitor thread and fetch some data 20:52:50 then server would send that... Server needs to have a circular buffer of how much data it would keep (ie this is how long of a history newly connected clients will get) 20:53:10 how do you arrange calling into another concurrent thread for new data, and have that data flowing back to you? is there a facility for that in hunchentoot? 20:53:46 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:54:02 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 20:54:12 well don't you alerady have a thread collecting data from workers? 20:54:18 I do 20:55:40 if so, make that thread maintain a circular buffer structure protected with a lock.. Then it can simply store data there.. Make hunchenhoot threads pick up data from that circular buf when they are called. Also add a condition-wait object, that signals when new data is put into the buf 20:55:49 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs78186070.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:56:15 I'm using a queue mechanism though, much like a shared pipe, where data always flows in the same direction: the monitor theads pop the queue, the worker threads push into the queue, that's about it. There's no real communication as in "please send me another batch of data" 20:56:21 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:57:06 well, the way I understood your problem is that worker threads run in the background (ie its some process), even when there are no users? 20:57:15 maxm: as of now I don't have any object visible from all threads that I now of, the libs I'm using (lparallel on top of bordeaux-threads) are talking about undefined dynamic environment 20:57:41 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:57:55 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 20:58:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-242-247.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 20:58:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-242-247.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 20:58:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 20:58:47 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.60.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:58:57 hard to give advise, as I think what I have in my head for your application differs from what you trying to do 20:59:35 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:44 I'm interested into hearing some more about what you have in your head 20:59:46 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.228.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:59:51 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129057010.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 21:00:01 I could also show you the code I'm playing with, but I think that would only be a distraction 21:00:15 well you linked to the client-side javascript, that displays a time series 21:00:24 like continiously scrolling graph of something 21:01:04 yeah, sure, see http://people.iola.dk/olau/flot/examples/realtime.html and http://people.iola.dk/olau/flot/examples/ajax.html 21:01:21 so you have two states, new client connects and gets "X last data points" of data, then subscribes and polls 21:01:55 so you need a call "get X last data points" and then "subscribe for new data points" 21:02:31 so you need a place to store these "last X data points" while there is no client, because client can connect at any time.. Obvious structure for this is circular buffer, since you can't buffer data for unlimited time 21:02:46 ok with all of that 21:03:20 where this circular buffer is stored, depends if data is displayed to all clients is same, or different for each client.. If same, its global state for your webserver, and can be a global var, or a database, or such... If different per client, then you need sessions, and it will be stored in the session 21:03:36 actually I need to buffer all data in the benchmark to compute final stats, the bench is only supposed to be running for minutes or hours at a time, it's not a never-ending deamon 21:04:09 so, I'd pick the global state for the webserver 21:04:16 how do you implement that as a global var? 21:04:23 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:05:29 (defclass graph-data () ((lock :initform (bt:make-lock) (buffer)))) then (defvar *graph-data* (make-instance 'graph-data)) 21:06:19 then monitor thread writes to it (with-lock (lock-of *graph-data*) ... add to buffer..).. The hunhenhoot request handler simply does (with-lock () ... render data from buffer ...) 21:07:19 if client lib uses seq numbers, they can simply pall with /get_data?last=200 (returns new data since point 200) 21:07:28 how do you arrange for the *graph-data* to be available in all threads? 21:07:52 or if you want to implement server push, I'm not familiar with how to do in hoot 21:08:05 I would avoid server push 21:08:41 but normally you do Connection: keep-alive Content-Length: 100, send 100 bytes, then server thread blocks until new data is available, then sends more 21:09:30 for a prototype above will do nicely imho 21:10:02 *maxm* actually has eve chat -> web irc gateway that does above 21:10:07 need to find it in the backups 21:11:12 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-3-213.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:11 I need to dive some more into the lparallel *kernel* options and the :binding facility so as to be able to export the global data instance in the monitor thread 21:12:33 in fact I realize I want Erlang style message passing API 21:13:34 back to http://www.cliki.net/Calispel 21:13:43 sorry, to http://www.cliki.net/concurrency 21:13:46 did not sykopomp had something like that, in fact I'm not sure why you not used it instead. 21:13:51 channel something 21:14:07 there's something called ChanL 21:14:13 yea thats it 21:14:30 sb-concurrency has mailboxes, if you want those 21:14:41 and that should go well with something called conserv IIRC 21:15:11 sb-concurrency? that's not in my QL :( 21:15:29 lparallel afaik is more about number cranching/map-reduce etc stuff, MQ like queuing/subscribe/event broker type stuff is kind of co-incidental to this 21:17:13 meiji11 [~mark@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:13 maybe I need to revisit using lparallel now, yes 21:17:25 served me well up to now, though 21:18:20 lp:submit-task and lp:receive-result is very easy to use, you size the *kernel* for how many jobs you want running in parallel and that's it 21:18:20 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/submit-task and lp:receive-result is very easy to use, you size the *kernel* for how many jobs you want running in parallel and that's it 21:18:34 so for the great part of the benchmark application it's just what I need 21:18:42 for the monitor thread, its queuing system it good too 21:18:59 it's for the live ajaxery thing that I need to revisit in fact 21:19:27 does it have receive-result with timeout? 21:19:54 or conditional-receive-result? 21:20:17 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-69.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:21:14 I would not make it too complicated, start with a shared global with a lock, then you can move on to mailboxes or queuing or more complicated stuff 21:22:25 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-190-135.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:23:49 yeah, I just have to look-up how to hook that global var 21:29:45 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:59 the shared data structure protected by a lock is kind of very common pattern, so I don't get what confounds you so about it, so I keep thinking I'm missing something... In lisp threading model special variables are shared between threads unless bound 21:32:37 ie (defvar *x* 10) (in-thread-1 (setq *x* 20)) (in-thread-2 (print *x*)) will print 20 21:33:34 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:33:49 dim: if you use sbcl, sb-concurrency is bundled with it. if you don't use sbcl... then no sb-concurrency for you :) 21:34:09 oh ok, not used to the sb- prefix yet, I'm mainly using CCL 21:36:47 in fact when using debian on servers I develop with CCL then run with SBCL, to be honnest 21:39:28 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:55 Houl: hi 21:40:05 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:41:16 -!- zolaric [4651872b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.81.135.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:41:53 maxm: let + (declare (special *stats*)) would do the trick, right? 21:42:43 helichopter [~austin@ool-4577ba80.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:02 because it fails to deliver in a first testing. will sleep on it. 21:45:27 dim: yes, but (defvar) does this automatically 21:46:00 you only need to declare special inside functions if you want to have dynamic variable without defvar, but there are really no reason, other then not wanting to use earmuffs 21:46:05 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 21:46:29 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:47:05 dim: ah using (let) on a special, makes it thread-local 21:47:12 inside of the body of the let 21:47:23 its only global as long as you don't bind it with let 21:48:11 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129057010.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:49:41 Posterdati: hi. atm, I need to deal with electric circuits comprising three voltage (resp. current) sources, resistors and op-amps. maybe your script can help me with this. I'll check it out later ... 21:49:50 two- [~textual@67.23.193.215] has joined #lisp 21:50:53 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-69.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:52:42 *maxm* found his server push example 21:53:33 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.66.141] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 21:53:44 -!- kennyd [kennyd@93-138-103-254.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:53:47 kind of lame, it uses semaphore to signal there is new data, and then waits for new message from php by system'ing a perl script, coz php does not have waiting on conditions 21:54:11 heh 21:55:03 Houl: it could, but it almost incomplete 21:55:23 Houl: I'm writing more devices support right now 21:57:35 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-18-66.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:57:39 maxm: there is no such thing as "lisp threading model" 21:57:48 don't spread misinformatoin. 21:57:51 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-69.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:58:45 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1167960173.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:58:45 Ralith: there is a de-facto standard tho, since its the only common sense of having it work.. works same way in sbcl/ccl/allegro/lispworks IMHO is enough to call it "a model" 22:00:15 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:00:24 maxm: no, there isn't. 22:00:41 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.115.60.47] has quit [Quit: paul0] 22:00:56 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-1-86.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 22:01:21 *maxm* sees no point in arguing, unless you provide evidence that I said something factually incorrect 22:02:39 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:03:45 maxm: the burden of proof is on you 22:04:33 threading model is not about special variables 22:05:31 kennyd [kennyd@93-138-103-254.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 22:05:55 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:07:10 "halp, being attacked pendantoraptors" 22:07:36 bobweaver [~bobweaver@ubuntu/member/bobweaver] has joined #lisp 22:10:18 maxm: stop the bullshit 22:11:57 *maxm* is completely dumbfounded to be honest.. I'll shut up now, but I have no idea what people got upset about.. you should have tried helping dim yourself, if you think I had somehow misinformed him 22:12:08 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:13:28 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:13:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:13:51 LiamH [~healy@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 22:15:03 -!- felideon [~felideon@184.105.242.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:16:24 i don't think anybody is upset 22:18:29 -!- LiamH [~healy@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:19:56 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 22:20:17 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75cb68.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:39 hi 22:23:46 -!- meiji11 [~mark@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:24:02 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5B326DA3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:24:56 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082982F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:29 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 22:29:24 -!- Radium [~carbon@117.203.1.92] has quit [] 22:30:21 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.140.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:32:53 Radium_ [~carbon@117.203.1.92] has joined #lisp 22:34:12 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:34:50 -!- naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-232-9.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:14 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-18-66.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:14 -!- trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:37:22 naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-232-9.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:37:48 -!- FACEFOX-DOT-COM [~gfdffdfd@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:37:53 hi 22:38:29 hi Posterdati. Please post the code that is not working on lisppaste. 22:38:38 I'm running sbcl 1.0.56, and I've got problem with defpackage: on 1.0.55 functions in the package I wrote are found with find-symbol, in 1.0.56 the same symbols are not found 22:38:44 prxq: ok 22:39:03 prxq: it is a project create with quickproject 22:39:13 If possible try to reduce it to a small test case! 22:43:24 FACEFOX-DOT-COM [~gfdffdfd@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:27 -!- FACEFOX-DOT-COM [~gfdffdfd@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:43:58 circuit-solver.asd --> http://paste.lisp.org/display/129206 22:45:05 havocjoseph [~jbane@66-55-201-98.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:09 package.lisp --> http://paste.lisp.org/display/129206#1 22:47:22 models.lisp --> http://paste.lisp.org/display/129206#2 22:48:09 sorry 22:51:19 The_Outsider [~user@p5798F63D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:38 FACEFOX-DOT-COM [~gfdffdfd@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:42 -!- FACEFOX-DOT-COM [~gfdffdfd@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:52:21 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@164-177-155-66.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52:31 Posterdati: and what is the error? 22:52:53 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-18-66.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:53:06 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@164-177-155-66.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:53:56 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-014.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 22:53:56 prxq: some functions can't be found using find-symbol 22:54:03 which ones? 22:54:11 diode-1 22:54:18 but diode-0 does 22:54:29 how does your find-symbol look like? 22:55:00 i mean - how do you call it? 22:55:09 FACEFOX-DOT-COM [~gfdffdfd@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:18 (find-symbol "DIODE-1") 22:55:19 or 22:55:36 (find-symbol "DIODE-1" "CIRCUIT-SOLVER") 22:55:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:55:51 hm 22:56:23 diode-0 is found 22:59:03 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-155-179.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:00:40 weird. is the symbol bound? 23:00:46 yes 23:00:54 diode-1 is working 23:01:32 ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:05 what do you get from (inspect 'circuit-solver:diode-1)? 23:02:17 or maybe with :: 23:02:21 Symbol "DIODE-1" not found in the CIRCUIT-SOLVER package. 23:02:38 CL-USER> (inspect 'circuit-solver::diode-1) 23:02:38 The object is a SYMBOL. 23:02:38 0. Name: "DIODE-1" 23:02:38 1. Package: # 23:02:38 2. Value: "unbound" 23:02:44 3. Function: "unbound" 23:02:46 4. Plist: NIL 23:02:48 > 23:02:49 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Out of this 3D] 23:02:59 unbound? 23:03:01 wierd. 23:03:07 but it works 23:03:45 it works? 23:03:55 Either you have an error somewhere that makes that this file is not loaded or the form definining diode-1 is not evaluated, or you have a typo somewhere. 23:04:07 Only it works here. (1.0.55). 23:04:14 :( 23:04:48 Posterdati: if you call (circuit-solver::diode-1 ...) is should not work 23:05:37 i may want to give one of my completely-anti-tech friends the possibility to extend their web applications with the pages they want to write. i've considered giving them a wysiwyg editor, but that doesn't seem optimal. it would be best if they could write their site in s-expressions. now my question is: is there an editor which runs on unix/windows and which would allow them to see the swank docstrings? if not: is there 23:05:37 which at least helps them with writing strings (as in: auto-escape the " inside a string) and indent/autoclose parens? 23:05:50 prxq:; in: CIRCUIT-SOLVER::DIODE-1 23:05:50 ; (CIRCUIT-SOLVER::DIODE-1) 23:05:50 ; 23:05:50 ; caught STYLE-WARNING: 23:05:50 ; undefined function: CIRCUIT-SOLVER::DIODE-1 23:05:51 ; 23:05:52 ; compilation unit finished 23:05:55 Posterdati: NO 23:05:59 ; Undefined function: 23:06:00 use lisppaste 23:06:01 ; CIRCUIT-SOLVER::DIODE-1 23:06:03 ; caught 1 STYLE-WARNING condition 23:06:06 shit 23:06:07 uh k 23:06:14 sorry 23:06:29 look at that, my post got mangled up in error printing. was that a hint Posterdati? ;) 23:06:54 Posterdati: well anyway that file is not loading properly. 23:07:07 stale fasls would be one possibility 23:07:42 ok... 23:08:15 there aren't fasl in project directory 23:08:43 rm -rf ~/.cache/common-lisp 23:08:54 and restart. 23:08:57 web based sexp editor makes google believe that the p is a spelling error after a few results.... so i don't seem to find anything. 23:09:02 pjb: ok 23:09:17 good night 23:09:19 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75cb68.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:09:26 prxq: thanks bye 23:09:52 I had a very funny thing recently, may be related 23:10:19 somehow when my system was quickloaded, from a completly separate package 23:10:38 the system's FASL somehow got dumped with a reference to that package 23:10:39 pjb: it is reloading and compiling all 23:10:47 Good. 23:11:29 pjb: you were saying earlier that my active-variables could be easily replaced with symbol-macros 23:11:38 pjb: but that didn't have the read-callback feature that mine had 23:11:56 can read callbacks be supported out of the box with CL? 23:12:04 pjb: maybe jumping from 1.0.55 to 1.0.56 crippled something 23:12:16 lol 23:12:22 CL-USER> (mapcar 'symbol-package (find-all-symbols "DIODE-1")) 23:12:22 NIL 23:12:22 CL-USER> 23:12:39 use case: I have run-tests.lisp, which runs from C++ side makefile to test SBCL interface.. The run-tests.lisp did (defpackage :run-tests) (in-package :run-tests), then (ql:quickload :interface-lib) then (asdf:test-system :interface-lib).. Somehow the dumped FASL's for interface-lib contained references to :run-tests package, and when I tried loading them from slime, it gave "can't find package :run-tests" from inside of FASL loader 23:12:47 complete weirdness.. 23:13:01 :-? 23:15:17 pjb: consider that's one of my main examples (the d6 generator) I consider that a very useful feature which AFIAK is not available in standard CL 23:15:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-014.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:16:11 pjb: now diode-0 and diode-1 could not be found :) 23:16:14 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has left #lisp 23:16:18 maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 23:16:33 Posterdati: check that you have that-file.fasl in the current directory 23:16:52 Posterdati: old version of it.. You probably did C-c C-k on old version, and it still loading that 23:17:16 there's no fasl file in rpoject dir 23:17:20 there's no fasl file in project dir 23:17:48 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-014.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 23:17:57 Posterdati: (1) (:use :cl) -- using both cl and common-lisp is redundant (2) defun docstrings aren't preceded by :documentation (3) you haven't told us how to reproduce the error -- most specifically, how you're loading that (4) you also haven't made it possible for anyone to reproduce the error, since you didn't provide either a reduced test case, or the complete source 23:18:49 how can I post the tar.gz? 23:18:50 Well, I got the whole sources, and I could run it without problem in 1.0.55 23:19:06 i'm not going to download it 23:19:11 i'm about to go to bed 23:19:16 Posterdati: reduce it to a small test case. 23:19:59 if you got the tar, you can run the simulation I provided and you'll get an error on find-symbol 23:21:11 -!- naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-232-9.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:49 Posterdati: (mapcar 'symbol-package (find-all-symbols "DIODE-1")) --> (#) 23:22:05 CL-USER> (mapcar 'symbol-package (find-all-symbols "DIODE-1")) 23:22:05 NIL 23:22:12 Posterdati: I can't run it, because of the problem loading gsll, and I can't correct that now. 23:22:35 ok 23:22:41 mind, there /is/ one difference between 1.0.55 and 1.0.56 that could have a bearing: asdf was updated to version 2.20 23:23:46 CL-USER> (asdf:asdf-version) 23:23:46 "2.20" 23:23:53 -!- mason`` [~user@ip72-211-225-236.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:37 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs78186070.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:24:57 and quicklisp is the latest 23:25:58 you can try restart, then (trace load), and see where it loads fasl from 23:26:22 should be from /home/user/.cache/common-lisp/sbcl-1.0.56.../... 23:26:29 I'm using quickload 23:26:42 thats fine, quickload will use load internally 23:26:55 then trace load only? 23:26:59 yea 23:27:05 it should show each fasl being loaded 23:28:21 -!- The_Outsider [~user@p5798F63D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:18 there's a lot of load from .cache/common-lisp/sbcl-1.0.56.0.debian-linux-x64/usr/share/common-lisp/source/... 23:29:40 is the file where diode-1 is defined listed? 23:30:13 no 23:30:31 slime is blocked 23:30:50 so it not finished loading? 23:30:55 no 23:31:04 is cpu usage 100%? 23:31:13 no 23:31:28 weird, I just loaded a few of my systems with (trace load) and it was fine 23:31:47 guess you can c-c c-c it and see where it stuck, sorry that idea did not worked out 23:31:51 shall I rm -rf ~/quicklisp and reinstall? 23:31:57 probably not 23:32:12 C-c C-c didn't work 23:32:12 I would just go back to .55 if you have no desire to debug it 23:32:27 change to *inferior-lisp* see if its in ldb 23:32:40 probably crashed SBCL by tracing load, which is weird 23:32:41 ; loading #P"/home/angel/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/slime-20120407-cvs/swank-loader.lisp" 23:32:51 then it blocks 23:33:48 I reloaded emacs 23:34:19 sorry did not meant to crash you, I had tried it myself before asking you to do it, but it was fine here 23:34:41 don't worry 23:34:47 I thank you for the help 23:34:50 *maxm* is out of ideas at this point... if I were you I would simply say "screw it, I'm going back to .55" 23:35:03 if its something serious, more ppl will hit it 23:35:49 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:36:20 anyway (trace load) trashed sbcl again 23:39:26 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@164-177-155-66.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:46 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@164-177-155-66.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:40:40 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-hudd6-0-0-cust741.4-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:41:15 interesting, works absolutely fine here... I had even put (trace load) into top of swank-loader.lisp 23:41:42 and it restarts printing all loads without any problems.. But I'm on 1.0.50.46 23:42:44 *maxm* is wondering, how did you manage to do trace, before swank-loader.lisp is loaded? 23:43:09 *maxm* is using slime from cvs, not from quicklisp tho 23:43:29 gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:e498:c030:eaea:2a66] has joined #lisp 23:44:15 (ql:quickload "swank") 23:44:39 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:05 but should not swank be loaded at this point, if you already have REPL? 23:45:12 or are you doing it from a script or from command line? 23:45:18 I restarted emacs then 23:45:31 naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-232-9.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:45:32 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 23:45:39 but where do you type (ql:quickload :swank) into? 23:45:44 so I've got an updated swank in .cache/common-lisp 23:46:13 at the repl prompt 23:48:56 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@CPE-60-225-88-32.hhui2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:13 *madnificent* wonders if he can 'sell' able for this purpose 23:49:26 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:40 booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:55 -!- gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:e498:c030:eaea:2a66] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:50:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:18 -!- booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:51:41 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:52:01 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:53:49 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@232-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:54:04 no way... 23:54:05 :( 23:54:11 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.65.141] has joined #lisp 23:54:50 at this point I take "whatever works in mysterious ways" position :-) 23:55:10 until someone else can confirm (trace load) trashes sbcl 23:55:11 Froward [~uh-oh@64.134.69.244] has joined #lisp 23:55:32 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-014.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:56:07 nydel [~jo@ip72-197-244-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:38 maxm: you aren't allowed to trace functions defined in the CLHS, apparently. 23:56:58 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-014.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 23:57:01 well, thats a bummer 23:57:24 maxm: however, (trace load) (ql:quickload :able) did work here. 23:57:31 sbcl 1.0.55 23:57:37 64 bit 23:57:46 madnificent: I did (trace load) (ql:quickload "my-package") 23:57:59 yeah, that should be the same thing, no? 23:58:21 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 23:58:24 Posterdati: do you have (ql:quickload :swank) in one of teh files of your package? 23:58:30 seems to work okay with sexml (/me must publish) 23:58:33 coz you saying it stops at swank-loader 23:58:53 no 23:59:04 it stops loading flexi 23:59:15 ok, we know what it is then 23:59:15 wait 23:59:40 its the flusher thread deadlock thing 23:59:57 (LOAD 23:59:57 #P"/home/angel/.cache/common-lisp/sbcl-1.0.56.0.debian-linux-x64/home/angel/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/flexi-streams-1.0.7/in-memory.fasl") 23:59:59 bang!