00:00:34 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:47 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.13] has quit [Quit: .] 00:01:25 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-199-78.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:01:39 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.121] has joined #lisp 00:01:44 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-199-78.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Client Quit] 00:02:19 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.59.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:02:29 -!- Quadresce is now known as Qworkescence 00:03:42 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-199-78.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:04:40 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 00:05:22 -!- sammi` [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-pbklkzeslqbokmav] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:05:58 -!- airolson [~airolson@174.119.26.215] has quit [] 00:07:03 -!- ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ((call/cc call/cc) (call/cc call/cc))] 00:07:08 tensorpudding__ [~michael@108.87.20.46] has joined #lisp 00:10:46 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.148.193.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:14:14 cage [~cage@FLH1Aaq228.fko.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 00:15:06 -!- kanru`` [~user@61-228-144-239.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:16:50 -!- rstill [~rstill@12.104.144.2] has left #lisp 00:17:20 -!- fjl [~fjl@178-25-98-61-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:17:33 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:20:09 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:21:31 fjl [~fjl@178-25-98-61-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 00:21:49 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-136-158-113.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:36 lispnewbie [a6f800de@gateway/web/freenode/ip.166.248.0.222] has joined #lisp 00:23:20 Read comma is illegal outside of blockquote 00:23:34 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 00:23:45 -!- fjl [~fjl@178-25-98-61-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 00:23:49 (defun describe-path (path) (there is a ,(second path) going ,(first path) from here.)) 00:24:07 <|3b|> lispnewbie: , is used with ` 00:24:21 <|3b|> (where ` is backquote, not blockquote) 00:24:24 so it's a typo? 00:24:26 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.187.220] has left #lisp 00:24:39 `(there is a ...) was probably intended, yes. 00:26:58 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-9-123.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:27:02 fjl [~fjl@178-25-98-61-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 00:27:14 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:27:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.131.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:28:04 undefined function there (define-path '(west door dining-room)) 00:28:24 undefined function there (describe-path '(west door dining-room)) 00:29:23 (defun describe-path (path) (there is a '(second path) going '(first path) from here.)) 00:29:28 you did not put ` where you were told 00:29:37 <|3b|> right, you need the ` to prevent it interpreting that as a function call 00:29:40 -!- eMBee_ is now known as eMBee 00:29:45 <|3b|> in addition to making the , work 00:30:06 oops i replaced ' with , instead 00:30:09 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:31:11 (defun describe-path (path) '(there is a ,(second path) going ,(first path) from here.)) 00:31:16 better? 00:31:18 <|3b|> ` is not ' 00:31:52 (your looking for the one on the same key as ~ on a standard US keyboard) 00:32:15 oh crap i thought ' was data 00:32:39 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.215.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:32:50 <|3b|> ` and ' are similar 00:33:12 <|3b|> important difference for this is that ` allows , while ' does not 00:33:26 yea ` is inside functions and ' is for data 00:33:26 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.46.12.249] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:33:44 <|3b|> that doesn't sound particularly correct 00:33:57 <|3b|> ` without any , is basically ' 00:34:00 ' is used when passing arguments into functions 00:34:02 "`" allow interpolation with "," 00:34:07 You are very confused. 00:34:17 yes i am 00:34:17 What book are you using? 00:34:25 *|3b|* would have called it overgeneralizing rather than confused 00:34:55 <|3b|> ' just prevents evaluation 00:35:15 (describe-location 'entrance *map*) 00:35:25 lol 00:35:36 <|3b|> right, in that case, you prevent the symbol ENTRANCE from being evaluated 00:35:45 lispnewbie: QUOTE (') is used to prevent evaluation, and backquote (`) is used to quote a template into which interpolated values may be placed using comma (,) 00:35:47 <|3b|> so you pass the symbol to the function 00:36:24 that makes sense thanks 00:36:26 ' and ` are exactly the same if you don't use any commas 00:36:27 <|3b|> you could instead have had a variable named entrance, in which case just entrance without the ' would be a reference to that variable 00:36:49 <|3b|> which when evaluated would produce the value of the variable 00:37:19 lets say i make an item array similar to *map* 00:37:26 lispnewbie try to evaluate `(1 (+ 2 3)) and then `(1 ,(+ 2 3)) 00:37:42 <|3b|> ` is similar to ' in that it prevents evaluation, but it also allows you to turn evaluation back on with , 00:38:17 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:38:22 maxm, antonv: By the way, one is not supposed to call PRINT-OBJECT directly... 00:38:41 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:00 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:25 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:41 -!- lispnewbie [a6f800de@gateway/web/freenode/ip.166.248.0.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:42:36 lispnewbie [a6f80548@gateway/web/freenode/ip.166.248.5.72] has joined #lisp 00:42:50 Hexstream: but we were not calling it 00:42:53 directly 00:43:10 Oh. I must have misread something. 00:43:30 Hexstream: only indirectly ) 00:44:09 how do i change (defun is-at (obj loc obj-loc) (eq (second (assoc obj obj-loc)) loc)) for (setf *item* '((note) (a note) (entrance)))? 00:46:47 ? 00:48:08 lispnewbie: It would be easier to answer the question if it was comprehensible... 00:48:38 tsuru```` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-20-206.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:01 ok the tutorial uses (setf *objects* '(whiskey-bottle bucket frog chain)) 00:49:18 (setf *object-locations* '((whiskey-bottle living-room) (bucket living-room) (chain garden) (frog garden))) 00:50:19 how do i change it so it uses (setf *item* '((note) (a note) (entrance))) instead? 00:50:25 -!- tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-20-106.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:50:58 <|3b|> lispnewbie: first, don't paste so much into the channel, use the link in the topic 00:51:07 ok sorry 00:51:07 <|3b|> second, use that instead of what? 00:51:27 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-121-223-199-47.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:52:11 I think he's looking for something like SETFing the CDR returned by ASSOC. However modifying literal data is not a good idea. Perhaps COPY-ALIST first and then do that... 00:55:04 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:55:46 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 00:56:33 http://paste.lisp.org/display/129031 00:57:44 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 00:58:50 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:59:17 all i want is to do is make a item version of the map code 01:00:14 *|3b|* will assume for now that you defined those variables somewhere, even though your book probably didn't tell you to 01:00:26 <|3b|> did you mean *item* instead of *map* in the paste? 01:01:01 yep sorry 01:01:27 <|3b|> so what do you want to do with the new *item*? 01:01:41 is it better to do it the book way? 01:01:55 <|3b|> 'book way'? 01:02:20 yea land of lisp way 01:02:53 -!- greaver [~jo@41.138.11.188] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:18 instead of the way i'm gonna do it 01:03:45 *|3b|* hasn't read the book 01:04:58 <|3b|> was more asking 'way of doing what' though, i lost track 01:05:22 adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-252-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:43 -!- CampinSam [~Sam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:07:09 see http://paste.lisp.org/+2RK7/2 01:07:45 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:14 -!- fjl [~fjl@178-25-98-61-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:08:45 is that better? 01:09:30 fowl_ [~fowl@99-117-5-219.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:30 <|3b|> would be easier to read with proper indentation 01:09:37 *|3b|* still isn't sure what you are asking though 01:10:20 i want to change loc-at so it works with item in post 3 01:10:47 <|3b|> ok, 'works with' how? as an argument? 01:10:47 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-252-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11:15 ok one sec gonna try something 01:11:46 adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-252-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:56 -!- fowl__ [~fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:13:03 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:13:45 comma reader: http://paste.lisp.org/+2RK8 01:13:54 -!- tsuru```` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-20-206.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:14:13 So that reading a comma outside of a backquote is not illegal anymore, but can serve a good purpose. 01:14:33 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 01:14:38 <|3b|> pjb: sounds confusing :p 01:15:31 |3b|: thats exactly what slime does. Try to type ,pwd in a slime repl. 01:15:32 <|3b|> though i guess avoiding expansion inside a nested , makes it less so 01:15:44 <|3b|> pjb: i meant in source as opposed to repl 01:15:55 *|3b|* wonders if that breaks ,@ or ,. 01:16:07 Try it ! :-) 01:16:41 drumond19 [~drumond19@186.214.55.53] has joined #lisp 01:16:45 *|3b|* has better things to do :p 01:17:02 hello pjb 01:17:10 http://paste.lisp.org/display/129031#3 01:17:50 -!- nif [~nor@gateway/tor-sasl/nif] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:53 *|3b|* can't tell the difference 01:18:12 really? 01:18:39 <|3b|> EQUALP says those 2 forms are identical as far as i can tell 01:18:59 nif [~nor@gateway/tor-sasl/nif] has joined #lisp 01:19:12 its supposed to say if the item is at that location 01:19:26 <|3b|> how do you call it? 01:19:45 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0019.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 01:20:24 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0019.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:21:41 http://paste.lisp.org/+2RK7/4 01:22:17 *|3b|* doesn't see any calls to is-at in that 01:22:46 there isn't any i'm trying to change it 01:22:49 -!- Zemyla [~zemyla@ec2-50-19-77-190.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:22:51 <|3b|> ah, new version of is-at though 01:23:01 yep 01:23:15 <|3b|> my point is that i won't be much help implementing it if i don't know how you want it to work 01:23:34 the same way as the map code 01:23:49 <|3b|> of which there are also no examples showing how it works? 01:24:21 just want it to return true if the item is at the map location 01:24:43 -!- BigHugeDog1 [~QQ@221.0.11.215] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:48 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-wmvypxewvpsceoas] has joined #lisp 01:25:00 <|3b|> you do have all this stuff in an editor, right? 01:25:44 *|3b|* wonders why it is *map* instead of *item* again if so 01:26:06 <|3b|> ok, what do you pass to is-at to identify "the item" and "the map location"? 01:26:36 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:50 BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.11.215] has joined #lisp 01:27:40 lispnewbie_ [a6f80548@gateway/web/freenode/ip.166.248.5.72] has joined #lisp 01:27:53 <|3b|> and you probably want to pass the list of which items are where to is-at still 01:28:35 <|3b|> (and you misspelled 'entrance' as 'entrence' in the east door from the dining room, which will probably break things when you start trying to move around) 01:29:22 dto: hi! 01:30:01 -!- antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:30:47 ok thanks 01:30:51 -!- lispnewbie [a6f80548@gateway/web/freenode/ip.166.248.5.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:30:52 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:31:22 i'm following the book for now, will try again later 01:31:33 <|3b|> probably a good strategy :) 01:33:10 Whitesqu_ [~notwhites@94.242.169.7] has joined #lisp 01:33:28 sbenitezb [~sebas@OL154-252.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 01:34:16 -!- sbenitezb [~sebas@OL154-252.fibertel.com.ar] has left #lisp 01:34:35 Zemyla [~zemyla@ec2-50-19-77-190.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 01:35:51 -!- lispnewbie_ [a6f80548@gateway/web/freenode/ip.166.248.5.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:37:13 -!- Whitesquall [~notwhites@94.242.167.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:40:31 ebobby [~fms@50-0-172-141.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:34 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:45:21 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 01:46:15 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:46:19 entrix [~entrix@95-25-163-42.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 01:46:41 pjb: my brother just gave me two awesome japanese swords 01:47:49 -!- entrix [~entrix@95-25-163-42.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 01:48:06 -!- ebobby [~fms@50-0-172-141.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:48:41 pjb: i'll probably work a bit more on my thing tonight, the elisp side 01:48:42 fms [~fms@50-0-172-141.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:47 -!- fms is now known as ebobby 01:49:36 -!- scombinator [~user@203.171.40.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:00:08 Kron [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has joined #lisp 02:01:19 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:04:35 -!- Kron [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:04:37 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has joined #lisp 02:06:24 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 02:08:25 Matt__ [6c0410fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.4.16.252] has joined #lisp 02:08:33 Is it possible to do web development with Common Lisp and Node.js? 02:09:52 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has left #lisp 02:10:01 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:10:54 <|3b|> you can do web development with just common lisp 02:11:06 Matt__: I'm not sure, but I would guess so. Have a look at ParenScript: http://common-lisp.net/project/parenscript/ 02:11:09 <|3b|> so presumably you can add node and still have the CL stuff working 02:11:34 I thought that parenscript was deprecated? 02:11:46 I suppose not, then 02:11:47 <|3b|> some people like it, some don't 02:12:02 <|3b|> some of the people who don't like it like n older version that was closer to JS semantics 02:12:16 Anything you suppose deprecated is deprecated de-facto. 02:12:31 Stop what you're doing and write a new Parenscript to replace the deprecated one! 02:12:45 Heh 02:12:46 Do you guys use it, if you do web development? 02:12:51 *|3b|* has been tempted, would be nice to have a self-hosted parenscript 02:12:57 *|3b|* uses parenscript 02:13:05 how are you doing that |3b| 02:13:07 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 02:13:12 -!- tensorpudding__ is now known as tensorpudding 02:13:23 <|3b|> how am i using parenscript? through slime, same as any lisp 02:14:02 no, how are you doing that * mechanism 02:14:11 *|3b|* is typing /me 02:14:20 ha 02:14:30 *Matt__* thinks he understands 02:14:37 <|3b|> normal IRC stuff 02:14:42 I'm new to irc 02:15:00 what do you mean by self-hosted parenscript 02:15:06 what could be improved in the current model? 02:25:30 huangjs [~user@190.8.100.83] has joined #lisp 02:25:40 KDr2 [~kdr2@125.34.44.137] has joined #lisp 02:35:02 -!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has left #lisp 02:37:33 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:38:06 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:39:19 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:53 -!- Whitesqu_ [~notwhites@94.242.169.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:41:41 teggi [~teggi@113.173.29.162] has joined #lisp 02:45:11 lemoinem [~swoog@199.180.99.253] has joined #lisp 02:45:18 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has joined #lisp 02:47:12 |3b| did you mean a Lisp version of Node.js? 02:47:21 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:48:11 <|3b|> Matt__: not really 02:48:23 *|3b|* only uses JS for browsers 02:48:24 what did you mean 02:48:54 *|3b|* probably meant that your question wasn't specific enough to get useful answer 02:49:28 hmm, where is xach, traveling? 02:49:38 which question? my most recent one, or the lisp and node.js one up near the top of the page? 02:50:22 *|3b|* has completely lost track of the conversation, probably the earlier one 02:51:51 you said "would be nice to have a self-hosted parenscript" so I was wondering what you meant by that 02:52:14 <|3b|> oh, it would be nice to have a parenscript compiler written in parenscript, so it could run entirely on a browser 02:52:44 oh 02:52:59 is parenscript only server-side right now, is that it? 02:53:12 <|3b|> parenscript compiles something resembling CL to JS 02:53:50 <|3b|> you can do that compilation as part of your development workflow and just put the JS on the server 02:54:46 <|3b|> or you can run the parenscript compiler on the server, and cache it, or if you really want to you can recompile every time someone downloads the JS 02:55:18 you've lost me 02:55:55 <|3b|> which part? 02:55:59 pjb: i'm having trouble thinking of how to choose a proper scale for the increments/decrements to the value under point, i mean how can the elisp tell apart whether 0.01 or 1 or 10 are appropriate values ? 02:56:00 I'm now confused on what parenscript actually does 02:56:10 Yuuhi` [benni@p54839D3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:21 <|3b|> <|3b|> parenscript compiles something resembling CL to JS 02:56:28 dto: Good question :-) 02:56:33 dto: type inference? 02:56:38 pjb: would you be willing to share your thoughts on how the emacs side should feel? you said you had done some work on it? 02:56:44 Matt__ compiles subset of CL to javascript 02:56:55 dto: well, nothing about the user interface/keybinding yet. 02:57:02 <|3b|> Matt__: are you familiar with coffeescript at all? 02:57:12 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:17 I've heard of it, yes, I prefer javascript myself 02:57:19 pjb: okay. 02:57:24 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:57:26 I implemented some window management, namely a main window with "child" windows on the right, and an optional menu window on the left. 02:57:33 <|3b|> well, parenscript is similar except with lots of () :) 02:57:37 that's all for now. (not a high priority project for me). 02:57:46 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has joined #lisp 02:57:49 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839D20.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:57:55 <|3b|> if you are happy with javascript, you can probably just use that 02:58:14 I am happy with it, but I like the flexibility that lisp gives me 02:58:33 <|3b|> parenscript adds some of that 02:58:46 <|3b|> macros are nice for example 02:58:56 dto: but you've got a good idea to have a different X window for the graphics / nice GUI look part. 02:58:57 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:59:50 <|3b|> languages.that[look].like(this) can be a bit messier to write with lisp syntax though ending up as (chain languages that (@ look) (like this)) 03:00:32 ps supports dot syntax 03:00:39 dto: my idea is to take a source buffer, split the top level forms, and present them in editing buffers/windows, with help to navigate to caller/callee using this fixed window configuration of main+children. 03:00:42 <|3b|> and you lose a lot of nice introspection when everything depends on what object it was called with 03:00:45 pjb: i'm betting on emacs having a bright future, and deciding not to reinvent the wheel. that being said, I want full SLIMV integration as well, 03:00:48 <|3b|> DataLinkDroid: not that i know of 03:00:57 tis true 03:01:13 dto: It'd agree but only if rewritten in CL :-) 03:01:44 dto: or we need reader macros, packages, FFI soon. ie, just making it more CL. 03:01:49 pjb: yeah 03:02:41 pjb: i wonder if the multi-snippet stuff could somehow be piggybacked onto org-babel 03:02:50 although, that would not involve window configurations. 03:03:13 pjb: when you say split the top level forms, do you mean actually alter the foo.lisp buffer? 03:03:20 Well I use forward-sexp/backward-sexp to parse the files. 03:03:28 ah ok gotcha. 03:03:35 i guess i should watch the whole light table video 03:03:39 No, but collect an internal data structure, with markers to the original buffer to update it when edited. 03:03:39 -!- ebobby [~fms@50-0-172-141.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:03:54 dto: yes, watch it! :-) 03:04:03 <|3b|> DataLinkDroid: did it get added back at some point? 03:04:07 -!- homie```` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-189.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:04:29 <|3b|> DataLinkDroid: still breaks things though, so i'm guessing not... doesn't seem to complain anymore though 03:05:21 pjb: was there anything big besides the code bubbles and the macroexpansion as you type 03:05:52 -!- Matt__ [6c0410fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.4.16.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:07:07 not macro expansion, but evaluation with variable traces. 03:07:27 That's actually the part I find more interesting: avoid typing C-x C-e :-) 03:07:41 -!- DataLinkDroid is now known as DataLinkAway 03:09:12 ugh it sounds like it would be hard to pick apart that all on the cl side 03:09:40 might be useful to talk to a slime dev. 03:09:45 dto: actually no, I think it would be simplier to write it in CL. But I'd want it to work equally well on elisp as on CL. 03:09:52 homie```` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-189.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:09:52 dto: definitely. 03:10:15 I may even write it in CL even to process elisp. 03:10:56 i'm not sure im the best person to work on the evaluator part. but i'll do whatever else i can 03:11:07 -!- homie```` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-189.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:11:28 sounds like you have it covered anyway 03:11:34 <|3b|> DataLinkAway: http://lists.common-lisp.net/pipermail/parenscript-devel/2010-October/000881.html is last i remember on the subject 03:11:47 dto: nothing implemented, so I wouldn't say "covered" at all :-) 03:11:51 pjb: ha 03:12:04 well i'll see what i can do 03:12:06 I tend to have a facility to imagine how to implement something I see. 03:12:17 eliyak [~eliyak@c-24-13-247-120.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:17 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@c-24-13-247-120.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:12:18 eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has joined #lisp 03:12:27 But that doesn't include the time/effort needed to implement it :-( 03:13:19 for now i did think of a way to speed up my "future updates" so that they're realtime, the function i wrote initially was slow and dumb, 03:14:03 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-189.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:14:47 pjb: one thing i thought would be useful is a kind of transport control protocol for the time scrubbing / rewind / record input / playback steps to be triggered from Emacs 03:15:15 pjb: i already have such commands in Blocky that my elisp can trigger, so it would be cool to standardize the commands themselves 03:18:58 pjb: i wonder if some kind of partial evaluation thing from On Lisp or PAIP some similar book, could be used to make the substitutions in real time 03:21:57 hopefully it would not require instrumenting the function in some way 03:28:23 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:31:04 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@c-76-23-252-81.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ynniv] 03:32:27 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:36:49 -!- sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:37:00 sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 03:39:13 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40:29 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:42:41 KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 03:44:34 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:47:33 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.10.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:47:43 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0019.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:52:56 -!- nif [~nor@gateway/tor-sasl/nif] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:54:11 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 03:54:35 dnolen_ [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:54:43 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:54:44 -!- dnolen_ [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55:39 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:56:07 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@199.180.99.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:03:20 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.64.185] has joined #lisp 04:03:26 dto: well there are such protocols. RTCP. 04:03:58 Well it's not exactly partial evaluation. But partial evaluation could be a nice additionnal tool. 04:04:37 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:04:49 It's more like TRACEing or STEPing, with dumping of the variable contents, on partially written code. Ie. executing the code TOO EARLY (hence the name of my elisp code :-)) 04:05:51 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 04:09:05 -!- flipout [~user@75-175-121-38.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:12 aha. interesting pjb. do you have to parse defuns and such? 04:10:23 *dto* should read more about TRACE and STEP 04:10:38 You have to write an interpreter, I'd say. 04:11:07 or read the code in a package where much CL is redefined (eg. let, setf, etc.) 04:11:15 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:12:56 Something like: (ignore-errors (let ((*package* (find-package "TRACING-CL"))) (progn (eval (read-from-string defun-text)) (eval (make-test-call (read-from-string defun-text)))))) 04:13:22 and just shadowing and defining LET and SETF in TRACING-CL should already show you something interesting. 04:15:45 another wow-you-can-do-it-in-cl moment 04:15:49 -!- finnrobi [~robb@notlupus.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:16:51 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 04:17:15 -!- DataLinkAway is now known as DataLinkDroid 04:17:25 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:17:53 re parenscript dot notation 04:18:29 i notice http://nklein.com as at march 20, 2012 04:19:36 <|3b|> DataLinkDroid: doesn't mean it isn't unsupported and broken :p 04:20:00 states: "Of course, I discovered right after posting this that the dot is left untouched in the Parenscript symbol conversion, so I can do (this.myarray.push arg2) instead of (parenscript:chain this my array (push arg2)) 04:20:23 <|3b|> see first comment to that post 04:21:25 3b, could be, but that is where i probably got my idea from 04:22:00 finnrobi [~robb@notlupus.info] has joined #lisp 04:23:13 <|3b|> it used to work as far as i know, but when parenscript started trying to be more like CL, it broke things too much 04:24:00 <|3b|> like in (lambda (a) (let ((a (create :b a))) (+ (chain a (b) (a.b))))) the chain a (b) and (a.b) expand differently 04:24:14 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-252-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 04:24:19 <|3b|> it probably also can't expand macros and symbol macros out of a dotted symbol 04:27:31 there is no mention of dot notation in the parenscript reference either. just chain. 04:28:10 my use of ps is a couple years old now... :) 04:28:21 *|3b|* doesn't mind the chain stuff too much since i figured out (@ foo) expands to [foo], though i think i'd prefer chain to have the shorter name instead of @ 04:29:13 reader macro?? 04:29:23 <|3b|> no, both are normal macros 04:29:38 <|3b|> CHAIN and @ i mean 04:29:48 <|3b|> [foo] is js output 04:30:39 could you roll your own shorter name? 04:30:49 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:30:58 <|3b|> probably, too lazy though :p 04:31:04 :) 04:31:46 <|3b|> like a lot of stuff in CL spec, i'd like it changed a bit, but i'd like to use the official name more 04:32:23 <|3b|> if i had some idea for a smarter macro than chain, that might justify a new name, but just an alias isn't worth it 04:32:51 spose :) 04:33:32 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has joined #lisp 04:35:30 lispnewbie [6c23a916@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.35.169.22] has joined #lisp 04:35:37 is the a cdddr? 04:35:50 *threre 04:35:58 *there 04:36:56 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rcytvkiwrmfusgbs] has joined #lisp 04:37:04 -!- lispnewbie [6c23a916@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.35.169.22] has quit [Client Quit] 04:38:34 lispnewbie: yes 04:40:52 (cdddr (list 1 2 3 4)) => (4) 04:41:52 -!- dryman [~dryman@OpenISDM.iis.sinica.edu.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:42:08 sacho_ [~sacho@46.10.14.57] has joined #lisp 04:42:29 dryman [~dryman@OpenISDM.iis.sinica.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 04:42:44 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:45:20 -!- facefox3 [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:46:22 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.14.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:48:43 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@46.10.14.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:49:28 asvil [~asvil@37.45.215.99] has joined #lisp 04:49:54 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 04:57:09 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:44 Harag [~phil@dsl-243-197-136.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 04:59:26 nydel [~jo@ip72-197-244-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:30 joachifm [~user@2001:1ad8:c:a4b:2e27:d7ff:fea9:27b6] has joined #lisp 05:06:23 maxm- [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 05:06:24 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:07:07 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2CC7.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:09:41 fukushima [~fukushima@z128.124-44-151.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:11:29 -!- fukushim_ [~fukushima@z1.61-193-209.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:11:41 flipout [~user@75-175-121-38.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:45 dto: tracing-cl: http://paste.lisp.org/+2RKC 05:14:47 benny` [~benny@i577A146E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:15:08 -!- benny` is now known as benny 05:18:59 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 05:19:25 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:21:27 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:22:05 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-244.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:22:06 -!- fowl_ [~fowl@99-117-5-219.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:22:07 fowl_ [~fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth] has joined #lisp 05:22:34 noumena [~g0@70.134.72.101] has joined #lisp 05:23:25 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.20.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:24:05 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:24:38 metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 05:25:03 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:26:58 Is it weird, or even possible, to have two different `in-package' inside the same file? 05:28:52 <|3b|> not common, but not impossible 05:28:55 only uncommon imo 05:29:35 <|3b|> it takes effect when that form is read, and applies until the next in-package or end of file (assuming nothing else is affecting *package* at read/compile time) 05:29:54 I see. Well, I'll avoid it then. 05:29:59 <|3b|> and assuming it is a top-level form 05:30:11 -!- maxm- [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:30:29 maxm-- [~user@openchat.com] has joined #lisp 05:34:24 didi: it's quite possible. 05:34:49 slime checks the previous in-package form. 05:35:00 pjb: Ah, that's better. 05:37:25 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:39:17 skulls [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/skulls] has joined #lisp 05:39:51 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:40:48 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-91.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:45:59 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 05:46:45 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:47:39 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:48:25 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@120.158.228.164] has quit [Quit: Bye] 05:49:07 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:54:12 -!- maxm-- [~user@openchat.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:58:16 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:59:03 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 06:01:26 sacho_ [~sacho@46.10.14.57] has joined #lisp 06:02:25 -!- oiig_ [oiig_@112.161.134.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:03:01 mrSpec [~Spec@89-77-76-114.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 06:03:04 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-77-76-114.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 06:03:04 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:04:12 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:04:55 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:09:38 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 06:11:09 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 06:12:09 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-tpapnlctsrlsuqsh] has joined #lisp 06:13:23 -!- KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:14:12 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 06:14:21 morning 06:16:12 greetings, Lisper. 06:18:56 -!- naiv_ is now known as naiv 06:23:00 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 06:24:53 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-244.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:23 -!- PECCU [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:27:33 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.95.1] 06:28:07 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 06:28:41 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:29:39 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209.52.84.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:30:17 gekko_ [~jjk@78.157.103.6] has joined #lisp 06:31:22 krrrcks [~krrrcks@krrrcks.de] has joined #lisp 06:33:05 -!- nydel [~jo@ip72-197-244-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 06:33:30 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:36:17 Which is more common for naming collections of packages `(defpackage #:packages.foo ...)' or `(defpackage #:packages-foo'? I see that PCL uses the former. 06:37:41 <|3b|> depends on the name 06:37:49 I think that it depends on hierarchy vs. composition. 06:38:11 rose-garden.ornamental-hoe 06:39:02 <|3b|> yeah, that's about how I'd interpret them too 06:39:12 Hum... Let's say for a collection of data structures. 06:39:20 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-71-238-24-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:39:22 `-', I presume? 06:40:01 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:40:07 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-91.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:40:11 mappings.hash-table, mappings.a-list, ... 06:40:19 Nice. 06:40:24 dot it is. 06:40:32 Zhivago: Thank you. 06:42:32 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@114-36-244-221.dynamic.hinet.net] has left #lisp 06:49:22 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:50:01 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 06:51:46 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 06:51:49 -!- asvil [~asvil@37.45.215.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:52:20 incandenza [~textual@ip68-231-126-199.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:52 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@46.10.14.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:56:48 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:56:56 alanpearce_ [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:58:10 derekv [~derekv@c-71-238-24-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:14 -!- alanpearce [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:58:58 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:00:36 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has joined #lisp 07:00:51 -!- noumena [~g0@70.134.72.101] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:01:13 sacho_ [~sacho@46.10.14.57] has joined #lisp 07:01:48 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 07:02:00 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:05:27 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-wmvypxewvpsceoas] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:05:59 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:06:43 -!- 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morning 07:18:28 -!- skulls [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/skulls] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:18:42 slyrus [~chatzilla@209.52.84.50] has joined #lisp 07:19:07 -!- schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:19:51 schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 07:30:20 Fullmoon_ [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has joined #lisp 07:30:25 -!- Fullmoon_ [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has quit [Client Quit] 07:31:13 evening/morning 07:33:23 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-244.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:33:35 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:34:04 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-028.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 07:35:59 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:39:36 -!- incandenza [~textual@ip68-231-126-199.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 07:40:06 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 07:40:37 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 07:44:12 KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 07:48:23 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:48:25 sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 07:50:33 eni [~eni@31.171.153.13] has joined #lisp 07:51:08 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@46.10.14.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:51:32 NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.7.206] has joined #lisp 07:52:59 Is there any exaple of cross-lisp-implementation TCP server? 07:53:18 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 07:53:34 NeedMoreDesu: like, umm, Hunchentoot you mean? 07:53:54 nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-244.math.tu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 07:54:05 Uh, I didn't thought that way. 07:54:14 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 07:54:54 NeedMoreDesu: hunchentoot is rather complex. look at drakma or cl-smtp for things that are more straightforward. 07:55:06 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-64-202.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 07:55:15 Thanks 07:55:29 H4ns: those are "servers"? 07:55:40 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 07:55:40 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 07:55:56 jdz: uhm. well. no. 07:56:09 NeedMoreDesu: i retract my suggestion. 07:56:59 well, in the light of desu's response, i'm not quite sure what he's after, anyway. 07:58:24 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-3-20.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 07:58:25 I'm willing to write multi-threaded server, and send complex things, not just 0-terminated strings. 07:59:26 <|3b|> iolib has some example servers 07:59:30 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-64-202.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 08:00:26 Can anyone recommend some large but portable programs that would test a compiler well? 08:00:35 programs/libraries/etc 08:00:42 Quadrescence: the ansi tests? 08:01:00 SBCL? 08:02:01 SBCL is good, but unfortunately didn't get it to compile :S 08:02:33 with what did you try to compile SBCL? 08:03:00 an old allegro 08:03:51 Playing with Movitz and lispm stuff too 08:04:13 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-154-79.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:19 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:05:52 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 08:06:32 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-234-70.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:07:48 is there some lib for xml processing with reader macros that allow you to inject xml right into code like in scala ? 08:08:10 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 08:08:36 dasche [~berner@p5DD8F355.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:33 my friend and I are uncertain about how mapcar operates. is it recursive defined, another type of iteration, or something completely different? 08:11:16 skulls [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/skulls] has joined #lisp 08:11:21 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 08:11:40 TimKack [~user@c-2ec220b6-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 08:11:47 Why do you care? 08:13:40 does it matter? 08:13:56 dasche: it's implementation specific i think 08:14:21 It matters if you want a useful answer. 08:15:08 anonus: would you mind elaborating? 08:15:19 -!- les [moreorles@unaffiliated/les] has quit [Changing host] 08:15:19 les [moreorles@fsf/member/les] has joined #lisp 08:15:47 anonus: you are looking for xmlisp 08:15:47 why statistical profiler refuses to work in sbcl ? i'm using piece of code from manual and it tells me "WARNING: No sampling progress; possibly a profiler bug." 08:16:04 is it really a bug ? 08:16:18 or ima doing it wrong ? 08:17:30 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 08:17:33 http://sprunge.us/NjEb 08:18:20 anonus: 1000 iterations won't give the statistical profiler any chance to sample anything. 08:19:02 anonus: the statistical profiler works best for long-running things. consider using the deterministic profiler if you know where to look for performance issues. 08:19:03 H4ns: so that why it decide not to do any iterations, doesn't it ? 08:19:29 Number of samples: 0 08:19:40 anonus: the statistical profiler samples based on a timer. if the timer does not have a chance to fire, there will be no samples, hence no profiler information. 08:19:54 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-urpddkphwzfgbedk] has joined #lisp 08:20:16 this piece of code is taken from sbcl manual, i'm assuming that it should work 08:20:20 anonus: also, given the statistical nature, the precision of the profile improves with the number of samples taken. thus, you'll need to run your code under test for a while. 08:20:25 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Statistical-Profiler 08:21:10 PECCU [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:21:17 anonus: your code looks very much different from the example in the manual. 08:21:33 look at ;;;; Allocation profiling 08:21:35 have you considered using slime-sprof? 08:21:42 i'm copy-pasted it from there 08:22:18 stassats`: i am, but i just want to know why sbcl integrated profiler is not working 08:22:24 anonus: i'm not going to argue. you need to understand how things work, and i'm not convinced that you do. experiment some, considering what i wrote, too. 08:22:38 slime-sprof is using sbcl's integrated profiler 08:24:02 ok, this mean that manual has wrong example 08:25:50 anonus: that much i can agree with. 08:26:30 -!- cYmen_ is now known as cYmen 08:26:37 anonus: try (dotimes (i 1000) (bar 1000)) in the with-profiling form. 08:26:45 anonus: that'll give you some neat output. 08:27:30 anonus: the manual is just outdated here. it was written when computers and sbcl were much slower. consider reporting a bug on launchpad, preferably with a suggested fix like the one that i wrote. 08:27:58 H4ns: yeah, it works, thanks 08:28:19 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-52-152.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:51 anonus: in you bug report, you may want to mention that you were confused by the profiler's suggestion that you're seeing an sbcl bug. 08:31:55 omg, it's asking me to register on launchpad =/ 08:32:41 srydberg [~srydberg@c-89-160-99-93.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 08:32:42 i would rather wait for nikodemus here 08:32:48 send a mail to sbcl-bugs 08:33:21 registering, surely, an insurmountable task 08:33:54 I have a lot of sympathy with anonus 08:34:08 I don't want to register in every application's bug tracker to report bugs 08:34:25 but, hey, sbcl-bugs is a fine e-mail list, and you don't even have to subscribe (though moderation can take a while) 08:34:37 (sb-sprof:with-profiling (:max-samples 10000 08:34:38 :mode :alloc 08:34:42 dang 08:34:50 stassats`: of course, because if i would register there then all sites over the world will require registration soon 08:35:09 anonus: http://bugmenot.com/ 08:35:09 don't they already? 08:35:36 many projects have bug trackers on launchpad, so you'll have to register only once 08:36:06 stassats`: not all 08:36:22 if 4chan would require registration i'll kill myself 08:36:24 4chan and wikipedia don't require registration, yes 08:36:55 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 08:38:35 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 08:38:46 i think sbcl should have integrated functionality to file the bug 08:39:28 do you encounter so much bugs? 08:40:15 no, but i've not started hacking gc yet :3 08:41:21 anonus: are you suggesting that when you start hacking gc, you'll discover a lot of bugs? 08:41:22 oh, i know! 08:41:26 anonus: strikes me. 08:42:08 quicklisp should have functionality to file a bug for each project included, it would be awesome 08:42:36 will you add it? 08:42:48 i'll defenitely think about it 08:42:55 it would be awesome to get the project url for each project 08:43:14 yes, project url and bug reporting url 08:43:34 license (to look at it before you download the project) 08:44:23 -!- NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.7.206] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44:28 and so on 08:44:34 NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.7.206] has joined #lisp 08:44:48 and a pony 08:45:17 yes, and ascii-art rainbow dash 08:45:17 dnangel [~dnangel@c122-107-229-159.mckinn3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:45:50 no 08:46:35 cl-pkgsrc? heh 08:46:39 different pony for each project so you can easily distinguish them 08:47:40 in which case, also source rmd+sha hashes 08:49:31 Should S affect the result of (make-array '(0) :element-type S) 08:49:33 ? 08:49:59 what is this question? 08:50:50 If S is a valid type specifier, then does S affect the result of evaluating that form? 08:51:03 Kognizan` [~user@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 08:51:13 if its upgraded-element-type is not T, of course 08:52:13 Fullmoon_ [~Fullmoon@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 08:52:57 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:54:28 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:54:28 -!- Fullmoon_ is now known as Fullmoon 08:54:44 -!- KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:55:01 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:58:23 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:ccec:684f:e81f:2597] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:58:52 -!- mathrick__ is now known as mathrick 08:58:57 -!- srydberg [~srydberg@c-89-160-99-93.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:00:04 anonus: launchpad is used by many applications you'll encounter, it's useful to have an account there 09:01:28 (stringp (make-array '(0) :element-type nil)) ==> T, correct, since that has type (array nil (0)) is a subtype of Union_{int n >= 0, type c} (array c (n)) 09:01:31 ? 09:02:27 and the latter defines the STRING type 09:02:56 ubii_ [~ubii@184.63.134.118] has joined #lisp 09:03:04 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:05:42 Quadrescence: there was a discussion about this on c.l.l, and Krystof has some intimate knowledge of the issue 09:08:18 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@117.218.66.142] has joined #lisp 09:08:18 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@117.218.66.142] has quit [Changing host] 09:08:18 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 09:08:21 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-30.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:10:03 -!- ubii_ [~ubii@184.63.134.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:10:13 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:11:55 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 09:12:37 string is special, yes, because it encompasses all arrays specialized to hold character or any of character's subtypes 09:14:52 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:15:10 maxm- [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 09:15:47 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 09:16:33 journeeman [7d108a87@gateway/web/freenode/ip.125.16.138.135] has joined #lisp 09:20:26 -!- BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.11.215] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:22:51 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 09:23:23 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129057010.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:23:48 hm, commonqt stopped working for me, i'm inclined to blame cffi 09:25:28 any cffi-heads? 09:25:52 *fe[nl]ix* waves hand 09:26:07 fe[nl]ix: what were the changes to mem-aref? 09:26:08 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:26:16 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #lisp 09:28:17 stassats`: afaik none 09:28:57 chturne [~chturne@host86-136-158-113.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:29:11 i remember Liam talking about some incompatibilities, but don't recall the details 09:29:56 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 09:30:06 and the code where commonqt fails is around mem-aref 09:30:07 what are you (de)referencing ? 09:30:41 an array of structures or of pointers to a structure ? 09:30:50 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:57 that may have changed 09:31:37 yes, the structures are involved 09:33:10 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Client Quit] 09:33:59 -!- machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:34:20 -!- flipout [~user@75-175-121-38.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:34:46 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 09:35:55 stassats`: you haven't answered my question 09:36:26 because i don't know the answer 09:36:32 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:36:58 then try changing (mem-aref ptr 'foo) to (mem-aref ptr '(:pointer foo)) 09:36:59 icyivy [~icyivy@222.205.104.95] has joined #lisp 09:37:01 it might even work 09:37:31 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-tpapnlctsrlsuqsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:37:37 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@125.34.44.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:38:06 ok, it's an array of structs on which mem-aref is called 09:38:13 -!- drumond19 [~drumond19@186.214.55.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:38:22 machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:01 or try (mem-aref ptr '(:struct foo)) 09:41:15 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:41:34 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:41:55 -!- icyivy [~icyivy@222.205.104.95] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:42:08 now it returns (METHODID 406 NAME 5342 CLASSID 16) instead of a SAP 09:42:18 is that right? 09:42:28 add^_ [~add^_^@m83-185-142-102.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:43:12 with which (cffi:foreign-slot-value * '(:struct type) 'classid) is not happy 09:43:23 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:45:15 what? who broke commonqt 09:45:24 i must destroy you 09:45:31 you did! 09:45:41 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:46:05 stassats`: where's the code ? 09:47:10 fe[nl]ix: do you have all the qt libraries to start commonqt? 09:47:57 http://gitorious.org/commonqt/commonqt/blobs/master/info.lisp#line312 09:48:31 and the compiler macro for cffi:mem-aptr is broken 09:49:10 it doesn't evaluate index in the second expression 09:49:19 stassats`: please report the bug 09:49:57 and ptr in both 09:51:43 if i switch from mem-aref to mem-aptr (after fixing it), it works 09:53:44 lisp is broken fools 09:53:58 not because it sucks, because nobody works on it that well anymore 09:54:06 the resurgence is meant to destroy the stream 09:54:25 dnangel: you can go now 09:54:33 call me paranoid. and ffs someone remake Genera already. 09:54:41 thanks.. btw i love lisp, so.. 09:55:07 wait.. stassats` - do you like haskell? 09:55:07 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-hrdzohkzslrqepdd] has joined #lisp 09:55:11 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Kryztof 09:55:18 -!- Kryztof has set mode +b *!~dnangel@c122-107-229-159.mckinn3.vic.optusnet.com.au 09:55:26 -!- Kryztof has set mode -o Kryztof 09:58:32 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-028.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:59:29 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-022.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 10:00:48 lp 985523 10:00:48 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/985523 10:00:54 fe[nl]ix: done. 10:01:19 thanks 10:01:30 fe[nl]ix: so, should i just use mem-aptr everywhere? 10:01:58 or is mem-aref returning (METHODID 406 NAME 5342 CLASSID 16) a bug? 10:02:20 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@220.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:02:20 when you have arrays of structs, yes 10:02:42 it's intended, but maybe not a very good idea 10:03:18 alright, i'll try to convert every instance of mem-aref accessing array of structs 10:03:44 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:04:54 and yes, that's a somewhat strange change 10:05:01 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-14-2.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:06:39 i don't envy Xach dealing with all the affected projects by it 10:10:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.54.209] has joined #lisp 10:10:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.54.209] has quit [Changing host] 10:10:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:14:43 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@220.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 10:17:30 and why does it signal a style-warning if it results in broken code? 10:19:12 is it possible to know how much memory occupy a list ? 10:19:23 occupies 10:19:38 no 10:19:40 kiuma: that question is ill defined. 10:20:03 (let* ((a (list 1 2 3)) (b a) (c a)) (how-much-memory-for a)) 10:20:14 ehu [~ehuels@109.38.151.170] has joined #lisp 10:20:32 kiuma: the space occuped by a cons cell is O(1). 10:20:41 kiuma: you can count conses if you want. 10:21:09 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.95.1] 10:21:20 ok ok, I have the reply :) 10:21:23 kiuma: also have a look at (ROOM) and (ROOM T) 10:21:32 more idiomatic but yes unexpected 10:22:00 would be cool if there was "incompatible api change" thing in quicklisp or .asd file 10:23:06 this way quicklisp can figure out which projects were not updated together with the lib they use having that flag set 10:23:15 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.29.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:29 seemts bordeaux threads considering this kind of change as well, getting rid of with-recursive-lock 10:23:53 it's good that we have to freeze some versions of the library. 10:24:00 Make it a bordeaux-threads-2 and a cffi-2. 10:26:02 ok, finally started my commonqt application 10:26:05 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.131.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:28:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:29:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:35:59 -!- nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-244.math.tu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:36:12 stassats`: don't commit that change to commonqt just yet, I'd like to revert the CFFI change 10:38:11 -!- joachifm [~user@2001:1ad8:c:a4b:2e27:d7ff:fea9:27b6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39:10 stassats`: you can reset your local cffi to before the merge, and let us fix it in the meanwhile 10:39:21 ok 10:39:28 i read your message just in time 10:39:47 *stassats`* was in the process of committing it 10:40:51 replore [~replore@EM117-55-65-134.emobile.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 10:41:03 -!- replore [~replore@EM117-55-65-134.emobile.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:46:00 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@182.Red-88-7-133.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:46:24 Joreji_ 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Ex-Chat] 12:25:55 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-029.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:26:15 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-017.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:29:06 -!- Levente [~Levente@catv-89-135-133-215.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:01 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:31:16 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:33:21 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:31 Is there a fancier setup of slime-space available, say one which displays the documentation as well as the lambda list of the function at point (as done by slime-echo-arglist)? 12:34:49 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@CPE-60-225-85-11.hhui2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:35:19 Levente [~Levente@catv-89-135-133-215.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:36:40 -!- Levente [~Levente@catv-89-135-133-215.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 12:38:46 -!- cage [~cage@FLH1Aaq228.fko.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:40:18 lindes [~user@chello080109073003.5.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 12:40:18 chr: AFAIK, no. Perhaps you could contribute such a feature? But since documentation would require more screen estate than a mere arglist, it would require an automatic way to manage the windows, which slime (and most other emacs software) so far has avoided. 12:40:34 chr: I'm guessing you're thinking of light table. 12:40:50 pjb: at least subconciously, yes. 12:41:00 ghuntley [~ghuntley@CPE-60-225-85-11.hhui2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:41:20 *conscious 12:42:26 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:42:31 hmm... I recently upgraded SBCL (1.0.55 -> 1.0.56) via MacPorts, and now certain things (e.g. (ql:quickload :cl-opengl)) crash sbcl when run from within SLIME, though they *don't* crash if I run SBCL from the command-line, and do the same operation. I'm guessing there are some old FASL files around or some such something, but... not quite sure how to track it down. Hints? 12:43:05 pjb: I could start by respecting the thingy which decides whether to expand the minibuffer for multi-line messages. 12:43:06 lindes: the fasls probably live in ~/.cache/common-lisp/ - maybe just delete that directory 12:43:43 -!- shizzy0 [~user@132.198.8.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:43:50 H4ns: ok, trying that... 12:45:14 H4ns: hmm, nope. That makes it re-do some things, but it still crashes. 12:45:38 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:46:08 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:47:26 also, I noticed a similar sort of cache in ~/.slime/, and I'd already removed that one... I could try again after having purched ~/.cache/common-lisp, I guess... 12:47:37 alas, still crashes when it gets to [package cl-opengl-bindings] 12:47:41 lindes: unlikely. 12:48:26 threads. 12:48:45 -!- gekko_ [~jjk@78.157.103.6] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:49:00 lindes: macports probably turned threads on by default. You have to run GUI stuff from the main thread (*inferior-lisp*) on OS X. 12:49:10 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 12:49:19 -!- dasche [~berner@p5DD8F355.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:50:16 it's probably that slime (swank) evaluates stuff in it's own thread, not initial one 12:50:20 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:51:10 jdz: the REPL isn't the initial thread. *inferior-lisp* is. 12:51:17 (SLIME's REPL, that is) 12:51:30 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@CPE-60-225-85-11.hhui2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:52:42 pkhuong: exactly, so if opengl is loaded from repl, stuff runs in non-initial thread 12:54:22 pkhuong: I think I do indeed have threads enabled... ack, alas, I have to go. I'll come ask again later, if I can't figure it out. I don't think it's only opengl, so this may or may not be the problem, but it at least gives me something to poke at. Thanks, all. 12:54:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:57:05 -!- lindes [~user@chello080109073003.5.15.vie.surfer.at] has left #lisp 12:57:49 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:57:56 -!- harish [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:58:30 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.38.151.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:59:17 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 12:59:18 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 13:01:14 ale` [~user@dynamic-adsl-84-221-191-250.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 13:02:24 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 13:03:31 how do I find the element of a list that maximizes or minimizes the value of a function? 13:03:46 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:02 by hand 13:04:13 alright :-) 13:04:19 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 13:07:53 asvil [~asvil@37.45.215.99] has joined #lisp 13:08:46 loop ... maximizing/minimizing? 13:08:59 jdz: not really 13:09:20 (unless the function is IDENTITY) 13:09:26 jdz: that would return the min/max value of fn, not the element that minimizes/maximizes it 13:09:53 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-139-35.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:02 Hmmm, I thought that iterate can return the index too, not only the value - but it seems I'm wrong. http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/doc/Reductions.html#Reductions 13:10:30 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:11:09 there's a thingy on cliki, so it's probably in some library somewhere 13:11:10 EXTREMISE 13:11:18 we had fun coming up with names 13:11:26 wasn't it EXTREMUM? 13:11:28 yeah 13:11:32 EXTREMISXME 13:12:39 nixfreak [~nix@mn-10k-dhcp1-5344.dsl.hickorytech.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:28 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:14:55 harish [~harish@119.234.138.97] has joined #lisp 13:15:10 -!- alanpearce_ [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:15:27 alanpearce_ [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:17:00 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:17:14 klltkr [~klltkr@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:17:54 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:19:41 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:20:59 -!- nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-244.math.tu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:21:52 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.10.245] has joined #lisp 13:22:04 dekuked [~user@pool-108-20-217-59.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:53 morning! 13:24:25 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.251.161] has joined #lisp 13:24:27 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-109.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:40 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:28:18 -!- ski_ [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:29:24 ski_ [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:32:04 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.134.248] has joined #lisp 13:32:52 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-afcykihbicwsoxnt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:21 shizzy0 [~user@132.198.144.230] has joined #lisp 13:34:21 (finding x maximizing (f x)) 13:34:53 *maxm* still cries over his rejected patch for (finding (values x y z) maximizing (multi-dimensional-foo x y z)) 13:36:29 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-30-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:00 maxm, where can I find that code? 13:37:12 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-30-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 13:37:51 chturne: the 1st form is in a system called iterate, or are you asking about my patch? 13:37:59 The patch 13:38:58 trying to find mailing list archives address 13:40:01 chturne: http://lists.common-lisp.net/pipermail/iterate-devel/2007-May/thread.html on the bottom 13:41:34 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.131.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:41:34 maxm, this is serendipitous as I currently require such a feature, and was having a hard time implementing it! Thanks a lot :-) 13:42:12 np, it may not apply right away since its quite old 13:43:25 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:29 replore_ [~replore@EM117-55-65-135.emobile.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 13:47:28 zealinux [~user@49.85.97.41] has joined #lisp 13:47:46 Hello everyone 13:48:43 I want a ebook, named "Let Over Lambda", who can upload to me 13:49:07 zealinux: buy it, cheapskate 13:49:12 zealinux: are you asking for a pirated copy of the book here? 13:49:23 zealinux: we happen to like the author 13:49:27 S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has joined #lisp 13:49:39 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 13:51:24 -!- nixfreak [~nix@mn-10k-dhcp1-5344.dsl.hickorytech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:52:07 I'm sure this is an old topic, but if I really like lisp, how would I find a job related to it? 13:52:25 I mean one where I can program in cl all day 13:52:32 https://lispjobs.wordpress.com/ 13:52:48 H4ns: yes 13:52:50 in my experience, lisp jobs find you 13:53:01 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:53:07 sykopomp: thank you! 13:53:08 so, just be excellent in all respects 13:53:11 you can also just generally hang out in the community, and people get to know you. 13:53:39 tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.20.46] has joined #lisp 13:53:57 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has joined #lisp 13:54:10 us crappy/mediocre programmers aren't so lucky and end up with jobs that treat us as such, unfortunately. :( 13:56:03 dlowe: I can not buy it, in our country, fuck 13:56:41 so, I just have to be competent 13:56:54 wish there was an easier way... 13:57:26 or you start your own company 13:58:01 zealinux: then don't buy it, it's not an essential book 13:58:05 there's plenty of people out there who just need problems solved 13:58:54 ngz [~user@198.111.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:30 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 14:00:54 ikki [~ikki@187.193.131.82] has joined #lisp 14:00:57 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-121-223-199-47.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:02:50 BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.11.215] has joined #lisp 14:03:10 ynniv [~ynniv@c-76-23-252-81.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:07 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rcytvkiwrmfusgbs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:04:30 just out of curiosity where do most of the people on this channel fit into big comp/small comp/academia? 14:04:39 I'd guess 40/20/40? 14:04:46 nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-38-11.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:05:01 stassats: ping 14:05:05 yes 14:05:39 can you comment on luis's latest email on cffi-devel ? 14:09:47 ok, i'll have to subscribe first 14:10:20 or use gmane 14:10:39 nixfreak [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has joined #lisp 14:15:43 :q 14:15:46 oops 14:17:21 isn't Let Over Lambda available as a PDF? 14:18:03 -!- les [moreorles@fsf/member/les] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:19:14 is there some lib that implements DHT ? 14:19:55 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:21:14 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 14:21:28 -!- Dax is now known as dax 14:21:29 fe[nl]ix: it's actually possible that there's another bogus compiler-macro 14:21:30 Greetings lispers 14:21:49 fe[nl]ix: because when i type it out explicitly in the REPL, it returns the right result 14:21:59 les [moreorles@lesharris.com] has joined #lisp 14:22:00 -!- les [moreorles@lesharris.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:22:00 les [moreorles@fsf/member/les] has joined #lisp 14:22:09 chord or kad maybe 14:22:44 eni [~eni@31.171.153.13] has joined #lisp 14:23:58 googling lisp dht only sends me to Locator/ID Separation Protocol (LISP) 14:24:46 stassats: (declaim (notinline mem-ref mem-aref)) then recompile commonqt 14:25:00 at least on sbcl that disables compiler-macros 14:25:39 -!- jlaire [~jlaire@80-248-244-51.cust.suomicom.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:25:39 and on all conforming implementations 14:26:10 -!- zealinux [~user@49.85.97.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:26:26 morning 14:26:30 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:27:07 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:32 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #lisp 14:28:58 fe[nl]ix: the compiler macro has *parse-bare-structs-as-pointers* bound to T, whereas the function doesn't, when i bind it to NIL, it works as expected 14:29:36 *j_king* sneaks lisp into trivial small projects at work. 14:29:47 pjb: Why are programmers named Pascal so good that they don't need unit testing? ;-) 14:29:59 fe[nl]ix: which affects the result of foreign-type-size 14:30:00 j_king: may your sneakers be blessed. 14:30:24 at least 14:30:26 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:49 ThomasH: :-) 14:31:50 jlaire [~jlaire@80-248-244-51.cust.suomicom.fi] has joined #lisp 14:32:11 ThomasH: I didn't say we don't need it, I said we don't need a unit test framework to do it. 14:32:12 with T it's 8, 6 without 14:32:13 where should I start if I want to learn more about the sbcl compilation process? specifically how the information from sb-grovel is used? 14:33:33 dekuked: dunno if there are docs, but there's always source. :) 14:33:41 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:43 pjb: Sure. I got a little long-winded in my response. But, in summary, it is that unit testing is tedious and that a framework is a tool to reduce the tedium and promote testing. 14:34:44 teggi [~teggi@113.173.29.162] has joined #lisp 14:35:29 j_king: yeah, I know... not really helping cause I'm not yet really literate in cl to begin with 14:35:46 dekuked: the best way to get a lisp job is to make it yourself. Be your own boss, find customers with a problem, and use lisp to implement their solution. 14:36:06 dekuked: I'd consider gaining literacy before attempting to understand your implementation's libraries. 14:36:24 can i somehow get messages from mailman which were sent before i subscribed? 14:36:44 -!- jlaire [~jlaire@80-248-244-51.cust.suomicom.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:36:55 ThomasH: I agree with the "promote testing" side, and also it looks nice if all the tests report the same way. Nonetheless, in my experience, testing framework are insufficient. 14:37:09 ThomasH: granted, perhaps what I'm testing is not the "units". 14:37:11 pjb: that's true. not sure if I have the cojones for that though. 14:37:14 stassats: I think gmane's archives include the message-ids 14:37:28 When a test involves several communicating processes on different computers, that's not unit testing anymore. 14:37:40 dekuked: there's little risk. 14:38:20 dekuked: the worse that can happen, is that you're successful, you have to hire other lispers, andn you become CEO of a startup, not doing much lisp programming anymore, but preparing 30-second speaches for VC. 14:38:22 alright, then i'll need to figure out how to make gnus to reply to it 14:38:43 pkhuong: I was hoping that maybe I could gain my literacy by working on something I know is pretty actively developed, but you are right, it's quite a bit beyond my understanding 14:39:15 dekuked: there are a lot of CL libraries that need more work. 14:39:28 kiuma_ [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 14:39:29 dekuked: browse http://cliki.net/ you'll find something to do. 14:39:48 -!- kiuma_ [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:00 stassats: you can just write in a References: header 14:40:09 pjb: what would you suggest? I keep trying to fiddle with networking stuff, but I keep getting hung up on simple things 14:40:21 pjb: Yes, that is an important distinction. Even for unit testing, I find the test frameworks lacking, including lisp-unit. It will improve over time, at least with respect to my uses. Progress has been very slow, but I've recently changed my attitude from "work on it when the time is available" to "make the time to work on it". 14:40:27 I guess I should look for a more pure cl project... 14:40:36 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:40:48 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-017.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:41:04 dekuked: it's hard to advise a project, it's better if you choose it yourself according to your tates and motivation. 14:41:06 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 14:41:08 tastes 14:42:25 jlaire [~jlaire@80-248-244-51.cust.suomicom.fi] has joined #lisp 14:42:28 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:45:13 dekuked: I'd recommend a little reading too. some of my favourites were Little Schemer, On Lisp, SICP, and Planet Lisp 14:45:35 I find just working on the excercises, even if they're trivial does help. 14:45:50 as well as going back to old excercises and thinking of new ways to solve them once you learn a few new tricks 14:46:39 Lisp is really savage: you don't know how to write your algorithm, you just write pseudo-code with parentheses and it's done! 14:47:47 ThomasH: lacking in what regard ? 14:49:34 -!- BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.11.215] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:49:43 dekuked: http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~meidanis/courses/mc336/2006s2/funcional/L-99_Ninety-Nine_Lisp_Problems.html and solutions: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/l99/index.html 14:49:56 j_king: yeah, I have practical common lisp, but I felt a bit too stupid to understand what was going on halfway through. working through land of lisp right now, then I think I'll go back to pcl. 14:50:10 antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has joined #lisp 14:51:02 S11001001: i just posted the reply through gmane 14:51:50 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120411064248]] 14:52:24 dekuked: Good idea. I found PCL to be a good reference-by-tutorial, but I find it's not something I can read cover-to-cover. 14:52:45 It's good though so hold on to it until you're ready for it. :) 14:52:47 dekuked: I found Gentle Intro to be just right for me, when I was first starting. 14:53:08 fe[nl]ix: WRT lisp-unit, I'm not fond of the test reporting. There is an issue with testing functions that return values. The internal organization of the tests needs to be improved so that it is easier to extend at the user level. I'd like finer grained control over running tests and defining subsets of tests to run. 14:54:52 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@Lark.price.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:55:14 sykopomp: do you mean this?: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 14:56:09 dekuked: yes. 14:56:16 ThomasH yes test reporting is not the best. errors get lost in all the passed tests 14:56:45 fe[nl]ix: With that, I've provided another example of my axiom, "You don't fully understand a tool until you learn to hate it." 14:56:59 ThomasH: that's a bit too vague 14:57:23 what do you mean, e.g., by "There is an issue with testing functions that return values" ? 14:57:40 <|42|> pjb: broken urls 14:57:59 fe[nl]ix: https://github.com/OdonataResearchLLC/lisp-unit/issues/2 14:58:27 <|42|> s/urls/url/ 14:58:28 ThomasH: Reporting is important. In python-land my standard is the 'nose' test runner. Good kit that. 14:58:46 fe[nl]ix: with *parse-bare-structs-as-pointers* left unchanged, commonqt appears to be working fine 14:59:01 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 14:59:27 two bugs in compiler macros! 15:00:02 and the style-warning is mighty annoying 15:00:13 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.149.19] has joined #lisp 15:00:33 zealinux [~user@49.85.97.41] has joined #lisp 15:00:47 fe[nl]ix: I'm not sure I even agree with what I wrote in that issue. If you are testing a function that returns multiple values, maybe it should test all values. 15:01:51 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:01:59 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.149.19] has quit [Client Quit] 15:02:30 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:46 Maybe there should be an assert-multiple-values 15:04:15 no 15:04:30 No to the first or second statement? 15:05:31 to the latter 15:05:52 multiple-value-list exists for this case 15:05:59 and VALUES 15:06:14 use it to capture the return values of the test form and the expected form and compare them 15:06:22 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.171] has joined #lisp 15:06:41 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 15:07:15 nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-244.math.tu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 15:07:33 I'll have to go back and check, but I think it's LW that complains about "efficiency" whenever I use M-V-L, so I generally avoid it. Anyway, I'll see what that does. 15:07:57 you don't need that kind of efficiency in a test suite 15:09:34 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.171] has quit [Client Quit] 15:09:41 joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has joined #lisp 15:10:21 <|42|> any reason why e.g. defgeneric uses :documentation instead of regular doc string (as in defun)? 15:10:34 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:10:38 <|42|> clhs defgeneric 15:10:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defgen.htm 15:10:54 because it doesn't have a body? 15:11:16 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has joined #lisp 15:12:33 joachifm [~user@2001:1ad8:c:a4b:2e27:d7ff:fea9:27b6] has joined #lisp 15:13:15 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.137.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:24 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@182.Red-88-7-133.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 15:14:13 -!- zealinux [~user@49.85.97.41] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:16 <|42|> right, why does that even matter though.. 15:14:20 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@164-177-155-66.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:14:28 zealinux [~user@49.85.97.41] has joined #lisp 15:14:40 i don't know, why does that question bother you, though? 15:14:44 fe[nl]ix: I think the proper way to internally handle testing a function that returns multiple values is to compare the first value by default. If the user wants to compare all values, they can use M-V-L. 15:14:46 -!- zealinux [~user@49.85.97.41] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:50 |42|: where would it go? 15:15:57 i can contrive some reason in (defun x (y) "foo") "foo" is not a docstring, so (defgeneric x (y) "foo") might appear confusing 15:15:59 <|42|> before other options, or if it is sole one just between "s as in defun 15:16:14 intinig [~user@93-50-99-219.ip152.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:16:20 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:27 <|42|> hm 15:16:35 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:16:39 |42|: might as well keep the regularity. 15:16:57 but declarations don't have :declaration 15:17:11 |42|: I tested them just before pasting them here. 15:17:14 so, nobody knows and nobody cares 15:17:44 metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 15:17:57 stassats: it's still an alist. 15:18:28 true 15:19:02 does anyone succeeded to make gpgme lib work ? 15:19:03 It's because defgeneric defines a class (of methods). 15:19:33 -!- intinig [~user@93-50-99-219.ip152.fastwebnet.it] has left #lisp 15:19:36 No, actually, it's because that's a space where other options could be added. And notably you can already give (:method ) in defgeneric. 15:19:37 it saying SIMPLE-ERROR "NIL is not a Lisp string or pointer." 15:19:48 during fasl loading 15:20:13 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-98-87-48-95.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:34 -!- tsuru is now known as tsuru` 15:21:21 ThomasH: the number of values a function returns is part of the function's signature. discarding return value by default is absurd 15:22:48 <|42|> nvm, was just surprised that docstrings were specified differently in two definition macros. I guess if one is unhappy he can go make his own. 15:23:36 fe[nl]ix: And yet, that's what happens by default in CL. 15:26:03 that's irrelevant 15:26:27 -!- journeeman [7d108a87@gateway/web/freenode/ip.125.16.138.135] has quit [] 15:27:55 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:28:53 |42|: docstrings are not the only differences between defgeneric and defun 15:29:52 fe[nl]ix: Properly handling multiple values means that the test framework "knows" what equality means for each of the values. This has all the same complications as implementing EQUAL for the general. Better to leave it to the person writing the test to handle that. 15:30:28 |42|: the kwargs to defgeneric, in MOP, are simply passed through to the make-instance for your generic function class. :documentation is just another such thing 15:31:16 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Quit: Out of this 3D] 15:32:12 gob_ [~gob@cisne-cn09.upc.es] has joined #lisp 15:32:39 what's the most commonly used lisp dialect? Which one should i learn? 15:33:01 gob_: learn common lisp 15:33:26 dlowe: ok, what's the reasoning behind that? 15:33:39 gob_: It's common? *rim shot* 15:33:44 ykm [~yash@182.237.186.61] has joined #lisp 15:33:48 gob_: you're asking which dialect to learn in the Common Lisp irc channel. 15:33:51 gob_: /topic 15:33:52 gob_: you join a common lisp channel, you get recommended common lisp 15:34:02 that said, dlowe is absolutely right. Learn Common Lisp. 15:34:12 oh, sorry. thought it was a generic lisp channel 15:34:18 gob_: obviously, the most commonly used lisp dialect is Common Lisp 15:34:36 gob_: it's a common and reasonable mistake to make 15:34:46 unfortunately, #cl seems to be about Chileans 15:34:48 These days, emacs lisp might also not be such an unreasonable thing to recommend 15:34:57 lexical binding! yay! 15:35:06 I will refrain from recommending R as the language to learn :) 15:35:18 well, people use emacs lisp not because they like it, usually 15:35:46 R does what it does well, but I still think it's a really crummy language 15:35:46 the same might be said about most widely-used programming languages. 15:35:52 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-17-204-106.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:11 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-17-204-106.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:36:18 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-17-204-106.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:19 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:36:21 sykopomp: those people fool themselves into liking their languages 15:36:45 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-17-204-106.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:36:57 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-17-204-106.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:17 I wonder 15:38:20 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:38:33 I wrote 80 lines of emacs lisp at the weekend, and suddenly my life is better 15:39:21 not much better, I grant you 15:39:38 -!- gob_ [~gob@cisne-cn09.upc.es] has left #lisp 15:41:22 i was entertaining the idea of writing a RoboCom-clone in elisp the other day.. 15:41:54 Levente [~Levente@catv-89-135-133-215.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:44:07 relieve some boredom while I fix reams of brittle unit tests. 15:46:39 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.29.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:39 fe[nl]ix: I was thinking about your comment and the term "signature" kept sticking in my mind. For a simple test framework like lisp-unit, the tests are just looking at specific values. But, a sophisticated test framework would allow you to specify the function signature in the abstract and in that case could reliably test multiple values by default. 15:49:57 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 15:53:06 ThomasH: Do you meant something like [cl-]quickcheck? http://www.yellosoft.us/quickcheck 15:53:46 sellout: Not sure, I'm looking through it trying to see if the CL version works compared to the Haskell version. 15:54:29 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 15:54:38 s/see if/see how/ 15:55:01 c0atz1n_ [~c0atz1n@189.224.16.97] has joined #lisp 15:56:03 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-107-108.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:56:07 -!- Levente [~Levente@catv-89-135-133-215.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:56:15 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.10.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:57:49 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:58:16 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.103] has joined #lisp 15:59:03 sellout: I'm envisioning something in the test definition that specifies the result of the function, like (:result integer float foo-class) or (:result '(integer float foo-class)) for the case of multiple values or list. 15:59:17 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-014.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 15:59:33 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:00:30 ThomasH: that seems reasonable (although a bit non-specific) in any test framework. 16:02:09 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:29 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:44 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 16:02:52 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 16:03:07 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:03:41 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:04:01 can it have :consing nil? 16:06:22 -!- mel0on [1000@h-91-136.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:06:25 sellout: Random checking in quickcheck is fine, but it would also be useful to specify the valid types of input in a fine-grained way. 16:06:49 so 16:07:07 there no crypto in cl ? 16:07:09 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:07:23 minion: ironclad 16:07:25 ironclad: Ironclad is a Common Lisp Cryptography package; several block encryption algorithms and hash functions are included with the initial release. http://www.cliki.net/ironclad 16:07:29 ironclad cannot into rsa and EC 16:07:41 CampinSam [~Sam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:07:46 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:59 is today "I will make false statements on IRC" day or something? 16:08:00 _nix00 [~Adium@114.92.102.106] has joined #lisp 16:08:02 anonus: if you ask precisely, you'll get better answers. 16:08:03 cl+ssl as i understood can only create connections 16:08:23 i need public key cryptography 16:08:35 encryption/decryption 16:08:36 I believe Ron Garret has some elliptic-curve code 16:08:38 and sign/verify 16:08:40 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-014.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:08:51 anonus: use cffi and openssl 16:09:05 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@114.92.102.106] has quit [Client Quit] 16:09:31 mel0on [1000@h-91-136.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 16:09:40 dasche [~berner@p5DD8F355.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:56 H4ns: it is easier to write entirely in C 16:10:07 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-014.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:10:10 anonus: *shrug* 16:10:32 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 16:10:40 there are gpgme lisp module 16:11:05 but it's not update since 2008 and isn't working 16:11:41 it's much more easy to make it work rather to write own cffi to ssl 16:12:09 maybe you are discovering what other authors have also discovered 16:12:10 but i'm surprised that there is no any public key crypto on cl 16:12:30 you can be the one to add it 16:12:41 that it is more expedient to just use other public key cryptography implementations, than to implement your own. (Or maybe you have your own implementation and this was just a teaser) 16:13:34 anonus: what of irconclad's rsa and dsa support does not suit you? 16:13:55 nice typo 16:13:56 stassats: the guy from my university that lectured cryptography course on first lesson said that you must not invent your own crypto library ;) 16:14:24 anonus: That is distinct from implement. 16:14:44 I would expect the meaning to have been "implement" 16:14:49 H4ns: because there is no rsa generation, you just should pass already generated n and e to make-public-key/make-private-key function 16:15:12 it is very easy to implement cryptographic code in such a way to make it totally unsuitable for some real-world uses 16:15:17 ThomasH: i mean implement 16:15:44 when you write your own crypto lib there _will_ be bugs in it 16:16:05 I hope you've audited ironclad for all side-channel leakages 16:16:06 Kryztof: yes ) 16:16:46 i mean yes to "implement", not for auditing ironclad 16:18:04 anonus: i've worked with openssl through the ffi and found it painless. maybe you should give it a try. or you write your trivial program in c as you suggested, but then you can as well stop complaining here. 16:18:33 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-244.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:33 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:18:39 Apparently linear algebra is something else that you're never supposed to implement. 16:18:42 i'd better make gpgme work 16:19:08 sellout: and flight control systems 16:19:19 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:19:40 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:20:29 sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 16:21:00 _nix00 [~Adium@114.92.102.106] has joined #lisp 16:21:07 sellout: yet, it's among the most common benchmarks for compilers and runtime systems (: I can only hope fourier transforms don't count as linear algebra.. 16:21:09 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@114.92.102.106] has quit [Client Quit] 16:22:24 what about implementing compilers? because you need to use compilers to compile cryptographic, algebraic and flight controlling code 16:22:51 why aren't you supposed to implement linear algebra? 16:23:01 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:52 It's already been done, you'll just get it wrong. 16:24:05 who did it? 16:24:16 nikodemus: I was just joking  it's just that everything uses BLAS/LAPACK 16:24:24 The netlib, everything you need is there. 16:24:29 _nix00 [~Adium@114.92.102.106] has joined #lisp 16:24:34 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384989.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:24:37 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@114.92.102.106] has quit [Client Quit] 16:24:39 -!- asvil [~asvil@37.45.215.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:24:40 nikodemus: BLAS? You'll mess performance up. LAPACK? You'll miss a metric ton of corner cases. 16:25:19 pkhuong: are they actually worth the call overhead for 2d and 3d stuff? 16:25:51 not unless you can batch them as level 3 calls. 16:25:52 if only Lisp were column major 16:26:24 If only Fortran were row major. 16:26:35 *was* 16:27:32 gotcha. i was momentarily confused because to me linear algebra is primarily 2d and 3d stuff :) 16:27:36 ThomasH: *were*  it's counterfactual. 16:28:05 i understand intellectually that people do lots of stuff in higher dimensions, but "well i'd never!" 16:28:07 if only english were easy 16:28:24 I'd take consistent over easy. 16:30:00 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-91.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:30:09 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:32:01 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:22 I think R. W. Emerson had something to say about that 16:32:24 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 16:32:25 sery [~srydberg@c-217-115-59-114.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 16:32:42 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-014.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:33:07 I thought (basic, graphs-relevant) linear math was pretty easy to implement 16:34:25 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:34:29 Ralith: have you looked at the stuff ATLAS generates? 16:34:33 Or at gotoblas. 16:34:46 I think there are a lot of ways to calculate the inverse of a matrix unstably 16:35:03 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:15 sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 16:36:32 Kryztof: ah, there was a nice preprint on arxiv on the topic. Turns out that solving a system via the inverse *isn't* less precise than LU decompositions. It's just harder to prove a tight error bound on inversion (: 16:37:51 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:37:56 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 16:38:29 typical 16:38:58 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has joined #lisp 16:40:09 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:42:17 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 16:42:41 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has joined #lisp 16:43:17 thepreacher [~thepreach@31.185.228.136] has joined #lisp 16:43:33 -!- thepreacher [~thepreach@31.185.228.136] has quit [Client Quit] 16:46:44 LiamH: did you see my mail about bad compiler-macros? 16:47:01 stassats: Yes, and I don't understand. 16:47:03 LiamH: that's the actual reason for cffi breakage 16:47:25 LiamH: if i remove (let ((*parse-bare-structs-as-pointers* t)) ...) everything works fine 16:47:32 stassats: I still don't see any breakage, except possibly that '|struct foo| being misinterpreted. 16:47:56 Can you give an example of what doesn't work right? 16:48:09 didn't i include it in the mail? 16:48:23 cffi:foreign-type-size produces the wrong size with *parse-bare-structs-as-pointers* being T 16:48:31 so it calculates the offset wrong 16:49:22 I see two defstructs there, one that doesn't have a close paren. 16:51:06 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:51:14 What you posted looks right-ish to me. 3 shorts = 6 bytes, so the struct size is 6. When you say that the "bare struct" is a pointer, it should be 8, presumably that's the size of a pointer? 16:51:28 LiamH: can you just ignore the second duplicate definition 16:51:33 s/can you/you can/ 16:51:57 Yeah, that's what I figured. Shouldn't the answers be 6 and 8 as you got? 16:52:06 yes 16:52:16 and the correct answer is 6 16:52:17 (cffi:foreign-type-size :pointer) gives what? 16:52:43 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-038.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:52:49 so, the compiler-macro for cffi:mem-aref has different semantics from cffi:mem-aref function 16:52:56 The correct answer for the first case. For the second, it's 8, or what ever (cffi:foreign-type-size :pointer) gives. 16:53:09 no, the correct answer for cffi:mem-aref to work right 16:53:18 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@182.Red-88-7-133.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:22 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec220b6-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:53:58 LiamH: :pointer is 8 16:53:58 Well I don't know what mem-aref is doing, but that should not have changed. If it did change, that is a problem I agree. 16:54:12 mem-aref didn't change, the compiler macro did 16:54:14 and it's broken 16:54:52 But what you posted looks correct to me, in any case. 16:55:32 what i posted is not the example of a problem, it's an example of why binding *parse-bare-structs-as-pointers* to T breaks the compiler macro for cffi:mem-aref 16:57:50 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209.52.84.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:58:03 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:58:46 thekilon [~kilon@athedsl-410151.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:59:30 If I were to guess, it's the function that's wrong. But luis is the one that put that in, so I'd let him weigh in. We want bare structs to be parsed as pointers for backward compatibility, so that should be bound to T. 17:00:10 well, the function is right in the sense that it produces the results it produced before 17:00:34 if the goal is to break compatibility, then it is wrong 17:01:12 No, the goal is not to break compatibility. 17:01:17 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:01:55 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384989.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:02:30 ericklc [~ikki@187.193.164.82] has joined #lisp 17:02:31 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-038.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:03:12 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-385619.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:04:00 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-029.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:04:21 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:04:46 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has joined #lisp 17:05:11 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.131.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:05:17 -!- metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Quit: metaphysician] 17:05:46 *parse-bare-structs-as-pointers* is used (as opposed to bound) in only one place, parse-deprecated-struct-type, and it seems to be used in a way that matches its words. So I'd say for correct compatibility, we'd need to bind that to T in the mem-aref function. My guess is for those of us who use nothing but SBCL that we never actually see the function, only the compiler macro, because it's always compiling. 17:06:05 replore__ [~replore@EM117-55-65-133.emobile.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 17:06:07 -!- thekilon [~kilon@athedsl-410151.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:06:38 but binding it to T breaks compatibility 17:06:42 I'm not sure why luis always rebinds that variable, instead of just defining it T globally. 17:06:58 stassats: how do you know? 17:07:29 my program stops working, for crying out loud! 17:07:33 -!- replore_ [~replore@EM117-55-65-135.emobile.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:07:54 thekilon [~kilon@athedsl-409938.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:08:08 Your program is the what you posted? 17:08:20 my program is commonqt 17:08:47 feels like i'm repeating the same thing again and again 17:08:51 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-029.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:09:07 You're not showing the code that caused the problem. 17:09:27 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-139-35.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 17:09:33 You showed a defstruct and foreign-type-size calls that look right to me, as I said. 17:10:07 Where is the mem-aref call that is giving the wrong answer? 17:10:15 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.38] has joined #lisp 17:10:40 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-036.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:10:44 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-385619.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:11:15 does it matter? the example i included in the mail shows that why mem-aref CM is wrong, because it calculates the size wrong 17:11:18 -!- thekilon [~kilon@athedsl-409938.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:36 i don't feel like wasting any more time saying the same thing over and over 17:11:56 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-409938.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:13:36 The size is right. 17:13:44 It is calculated right. 17:14:03 Right is Wrong. War is Peace. 17:14:11 The first answer should be 6, the second should be the same as (cffi:foreign-type-size :pointer). 17:14:14 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.238.49.219] has joined #lisp 17:14:39 -!- c0atz1n_ [~c0atz1n@189.224.16.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14:40 LiamH: i think stassats is pointing out that the compiler macro doesn't emit code that does the same thing as the out-of-line call. That can't be right. 17:15:13 pkhuong: I agree, as I said. I think the fix is to bind that variable to T in the function, as I said. 17:16:39 Without a test case of mem-aref, I can't confirm for sure though. 17:17:01 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-409938.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:06 slyrus [~chatzilla@209.52.84.50] has joined #lisp 17:17:07 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.134.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:17:45 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-409938.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:19:09 -!- dasche [~berner@p5DD8F355.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:21:33 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 17:22:39 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209.52.84.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:22:43 *anonus* touches nikodemus 17:25:01 -!- antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:26:35 anonus: ? 17:28:29 nikodemus: there are wrong examples in sbcl's docs about statistical profiler. second example not working and it's confused me with message that it is possible a bug 17:28:34 :3 17:28:59 LiamH: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129043 17:29:25 -!- ykm [~yash@182.237.186.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:29:41 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-229-70.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:07 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.180] has joined #lisp 17:30:08 moment 17:30:14 nikodemus: the second example for the profiler runs too quickly on modern machines, thus the profiler will have no chance to sample. 17:30:56 the compiler-macro for (setf cffi:mem-aref) is broken too, so i had to defeat it by using a non-constant type 17:32:31 stassats: it's mem-aptr now 17:32:38 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:33:13 oGMo: mem-aptr works, yes, but it was promised that backwards-compatibility won't be broken 17:33:17 and there's no (setf mem-aptr) 17:34:17 nikodemus: here http://sprunge.us/QOPB 17:34:20 (setf mem-aptr) doesn't make sense, but yes on backward compatibility 17:34:43 http://sprunge.us/QOPB?cl 17:34:57 much better 17:34:58 i know at least cl-gtk2 doesn't work now, probably others 17:35:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:35:44 what's odd is that they fail silently or have bizarre results when they shouldn't work at all ;/ 17:35:59 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-urpddkphwzfgbedk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:36:06 and what is funny, the compiler macro for mem-aptr is wrong too, but in a different way 17:36:31 howso? i haven't used it yet .. i've been using my own macro which is essentially an inc-pointer 17:36:36 oGMo: commonqt stopped working, but removing the let from mem-aref compiler-macro made it work again 17:36:42 i have it on my todo to update stuff though 17:37:39 ah right .. the function version doesn't set that 17:38:15 oGMo: here's the mem-aptr breakage https://bugs.launchpad.net/cffi/+bug/985523 17:38:41 There's enough land in the US for each individual to have 7 acres. Everybody: spread out. 17:38:50 stassats: ouch 17:38:59 Oh, wrong channel. *blush* 17:39:19 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-036.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:40:58 hrm, is there something special one needs to do (or can do) to make sure slime sees breaks/conditions/etc in threads? 17:41:04 oGMo: and what's interesting, the setf method for mem-aref bind *parse-bare-structs-as-pointers* only when type is constant, essentially demonstrating the same problem 17:41:06 Let's spread out in space: billion of cubic kilometers each! 17:41:17 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:41:27 pjb: great idea! You first! :) 17:41:40 Me first! 17:41:51 As soon as I have a space ship. 17:42:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-022.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:42:18 stassats: yeah i was complaining loudly about this when i first discovered it but gave up when mem-aptr was decided on 17:43:15 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:43:29 slyrus [~chatzilla@209.52.84.50] has joined #lisp 17:43:43 right now if i have a (break) in a thread started with (bt:make-thread), it dies silently ;/ 17:46:08 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:47:24 oGMo: which implementation? 17:47:38 stassats: sbcl 17:48:05 breaks normally here 17:48:13 hrm 17:48:26 (bt:make-thread #'break) 17:49:15 anonus: launchpad please, irc is not a bugreport channel 17:49:27 :D 17:49:28 it asks me to register T_T 17:49:29 nikodemus: he can't register 17:49:31 (or sbcl-bugs) 17:49:50 I suggested sbcl-bugs this morning 17:49:59 or yesterday, or whenever it was 17:50:03 Kryztof: you need an email to post there! 17:50:34 sbcl-bugs is a mailing list ? 17:50:39 yes 17:50:50 you don't need to subscribe to it 17:50:56 ok 17:51:02 good 17:51:11 as I said this morning 17:51:39 there is still something right in this world 17:51:51 Kryztof: really? i missed it 17:52:07 i would rather wait for nikodemus here [09:32] 17:52:07 send a mail to sbcl-bugs 17:52:16 stassats: thanks for patch, applied. 17:52:19 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:52:28 really 17:52:40 ok, i believe you ) 17:52:42 and why wait for nikodemus? 17:52:56 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-14.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:56 because i stupidly at some point used to fix bugs the minute they someone reported them on irc, some people have started excpecting that as a matter of course 17:53:56 maybe because the rest of us were too busy telling him that irc wasn't a bug-reporting venue to fix his problem 17:53:57 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:54:23 sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 17:54:40 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.64.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:54:52 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-48-95.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:55:22 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:55:31 -!- ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:55:39 ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:43 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 17:56:28 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:56:32 kmcorbett1 [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 17:57:57 Necr0 [~033@dbu202.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:58:19 -!- Necr0 [~033@dbu202.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 17:58:58 ah, the worker thread waiting on a condition variable apparently blocks things 17:59:51 (isn't that what condition variables do?) 18:00:37 sure, i just figured the worker thread would not block swank interaction 18:01:15 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:01:46 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-126-199.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:57 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.246] has joined #lisp 18:02:27 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 18:02:52 billstclair [~billstcla@p-216-227-81-121.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:53 mathrick_ [~mathrick@94.144.63.10] has joined #lisp 18:03:04 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-216-227-81-121.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:03:04 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 18:03:08 -!- tsuru`` is now known as tsuru` 18:03:24 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:54 sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 18:04:17 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p54839D3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:04:43 I just emailed luis and he responded that he will look at the use of *parse-bare-structs-as-pointers* and rethink its need. 18:05:19 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:05:30 -!- ericklc [~ikki@187.193.164.82] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:05:31 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:06:01 oiig_ [oiig_@112.161.134.227] has joined #lisp 18:06:24 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:07:07 mrunal [mpatel@nat/redhat/x-pspcncjlnggezgvx] has joined #lisp 18:07:25 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 18:07:26 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:13:29 asvil [~asvil@178.120.66.16] has joined #lisp 18:17:10 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:13 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.119.155] has joined #lisp 18:19:11 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:42 antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has joined #lisp 18:19:56 sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 18:21:35 Fullmoon_ [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has joined #lisp 18:25:51 -!- antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:26:01 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:26:01 -!- Fullmoon_ is now known as Fullmoon 18:28:20 -!- skulls [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/skulls] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:29:11 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-409938.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29:19 sacho_ [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 18:30:07 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-409938.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:30:42 naiv_ [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-284-202.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:30:53 Oladon_work [~Oladon@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:58 Anyone know tritchey? 18:31:07 -!- naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-209-109.w109-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:32:00 as in, "have spoken with him". not as in actually know 18:32:28 nikodemus: happen to know how I could get in touch with him? Found a few results on Google, but some don't look like the same person 18:33:10 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:33:29 why is (typep (make-array 4 :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8) :initial-element 65) 'simple-vector) a NIL? 18:33:37 How would I get a simple-vector? 18:33:48 :element-type t 18:33:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:33:53 a simple-vector is an unspecialized vector with no other attributes 18:33:55 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:34:04 ok, thanks 18:34:08 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:34:26 c0atz1n_ [~c0atz1n@189.224.29.202] has joined #lisp 18:34:47 simple-vector is pretty uninteresting in sbcl, though. a specialized vector with element-type unsigned-byte 8 is also efficient to use. 18:34:58 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 18:35:11 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:34 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:40 Oladon_work: afaik tritchey on twitter is the person you're looking for 18:35:58 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.238.49.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:35:58 nikodemus: Lesigh, I was afraid of that. Thanks though 18:38:12 *Oladon_work* detests Twitter 18:38:52 Oladon_work: if you tell me your email address and your desire, i'll send him a message. 18:39:29 *easye`* is looking at mel-base for IMAP again. 18:40:27 -!- kmcorbett1 [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:40:27 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:40:30 Any help for "WARNING: inconsistent form-number-translations"? 18:40:34 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 18:40:55 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:40:59 sacho_ [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 18:41:27 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-134-126.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:46 Their seems to be a more recent Quicklisp version of mel-base than I can find on the 'net. Kudos again to the Xach-meister. 18:42:00 s/Their/There/ 18:43:25 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 18:44:50 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-229-70.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:45:32 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 18:45:33 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:23 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-125-118.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:56 DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-14-2.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:15 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-254-76.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:34 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-134-126.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:52:25 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-254-136.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:40 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-125-118.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:53:31 ravster [~user@184.175.28.107] has joined #lisp 18:53:35 Hello everyone. 18:53:46 Hello, ravster. 18:54:13 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-254-76.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:54:36 Does anyone here use cl-twitter? I'm having difficulty getting started with it. It says that (authenticate-user) is an undefined function. 18:54:46 *Oladon_work* twitches 18:54:52 :) 18:54:54 ravster: are you using it in the package? 18:55:01 you probably need to call it as twitter:authenticate-user 18:55:21 In the package, and when doing (use-package :cl-twitter) 18:55:54 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-152-48.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:20 which is weird since it is one of the exported symbols. 18:56:35 When you say "in the package"... you actually changed to work in that package? 18:56:40 yup 18:56:44 because from what I understand you shouldn't do that ;P 18:56:47 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.49.139] has joined #lisp 18:57:13 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:57:21 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-244.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:23 ok, tell you what... I'll load it, much as I hate twitter 18:57:29 yeah, I did that since it wasn't working when I'm in cl-user & (use-package)ing the cl-twitter package. 18:59:01 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-254-136.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:59:21 Yuuhi [benni@p54839D3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:06 Oladon_work: thanks, I appreciate the help. 19:00:08 ravster: So apparently you're right... he does export authenticate-user in package.lisp, but I don't see a defun for it when I grep 19:00:21 aha 19:00:39 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 19:00:41 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:45 Sometimes I really hate the CL standard library: Of course maphash returns nil 19:01:07 jasom: what should it return instead? 19:01:26 ravster: looks like he only defuns oath-authenticate-user and repl-authenticate-user 19:01:29 H4ns: a list of the return values of the function? 19:01:47 ravster: see cl-twit-repl/twitter.lisp 19:02:03 jasom: then it would be of limited use when you do not want to cons up a list. 19:02:16 H4ns: sow ad maph (like mapc) 19:02:21 er so add 19:02:31 jasom: right. do that if you need that. 19:03:40 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-230-212.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:56 jasom: but i agree, from today's perspective, cl's hash tables are rather clunky 19:05:24 There's like 6 functions for mapping on conses and just one for hash-tables 19:05:26 jasom: use loop or iterate 19:05:35 Oladon_work: will do that. Thank you. 19:05:35 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 19:05:47 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:26 flip214: I know of a dozen ways to achieve what I want, it's just that it seems like a strange thing missing 19:06:29 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-152-48.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:07:10 jasom: ok. TBH, I find the verbosity in loop for that a bit clunky, too. iterate is a bit better, IIRC 19:07:30 jasom: it is not so strange, considering cl's history. when it was developed, programming languages did not generally have rich data structures. lisp was pretty advanced in that respect. 19:07:48 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:07:49 flip214: (let ((result nil)) (maphash (lambda (k v) (push (funcall function k v) result)) ht) result)) 19:08:19 sure it reverses it, but since hash-tables are unordered anyway, who cares? 19:08:25 ravster: the readme in cl-twit-repl clearly describes one way to do the authentication 19:08:45 jasom: right 19:08:58 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-139-46.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:13 so, struct against class... 19:09:32 (mapcar #'function (alexandria:hash-table-keys ht) (alexandria:hash-table-values ht)) 19:10:01 stassats: *cough* 19:10:15 H4ns: what? your compiler is not smart enough? 19:10:43 stassats: is yours? 19:10:53 no.. 19:10:58 but in theory! 19:11:04 stassats: i would have been impressed. 19:11:11 (remove item list :key ...) is fine, how can I get the reverse thing? Ie. only keep elements where the result after applying a function is some value? 19:11:28 jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:33 flip214: :test 19:11:37 (remove item list :key ... :test-not #'eql) 19:11:41 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-255-96.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:49 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-230-212.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:11:51 uh. stassats, you make my day. 19:12:04 *H4ns* would have thought :test (complement #'eql) 19:12:27 because :test-not is deprecated? 19:12:51 (nobody cares about deprecation) 19:13:02 stassats: yes. well, years ago, i've read about that and learned about complement. but i'll gladly give up on that. 19:13:25 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-139-46.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:13:54 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13:58 i think it's universally agreed that deprecation of *-not things isn't sensible, and we're not going to have another standard in the near future anyway 19:14:09 yes. i totally concur. 19:14:29 and even if there would be a new standard, no sane person would want to keep that deprecation in the next version. 19:14:54 ebobby [~fms@50-0-172-141.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:08 H4ns, stassats : thanks a lot, but I found out I'll have to use (do-all-symbols) anyway. 19:15:08 hello 19:15:20 Hi, ebobby 19:15:50 flip214: for what? 19:15:56 flipout [~user@75-175-123-50.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:05 jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:10 no, do-symbols is sufficient 19:16:26 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 19:16:28 did you know that you can use APROPOS-LIST to get a list of all symbols? 19:16:44 (apropos-list "" package) 19:16:46 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:55 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-255-177.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:15 phf [~phf@75-150-171-219-Philadelphia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:13 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-255-96.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:18:48 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:19:08 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 19:20:04 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.49.139] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 19:20:29 stassats: thanks. I just seem to not understand fboundp ... 19:20:36 (remove-if-not #'fboundp (apropos "" :cl-ppcre)) 19:20:48 you forgot -list 19:20:49 returns a lot of symbols that are _not_ fbound. 19:21:03 ah, thanks 19:21:26 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 19:21:32 flip214: apropos returns nothing. 19:21:34 and on sbcl, you can do (remove-if-not #'fboundp (apropos-list "" :cl-ppcre t)), to get only exported symbols 19:21:41 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:22:01 drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 19:22:02 no, I want non-exported too. thanks a lot. 19:22:18 -!- sery [~srydberg@c-217-115-59-114.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:22:22 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-147-7.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:56 I'm a bit too tired, I think ... there's no reader-macro for list splicing, right? 19:23:23 what is list splicing? 19:23:41 like ,@ inside `? 19:23:50 (list 0 #.(list 1 2 3) 4) gives a tree 19:23:52 yes, right 19:24:05 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-255-177.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:24:06 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-138-134.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:16 I'd like to call the macro trace with all functions defined in a package ... 19:24:31 how would I call a macro indirectly, as I cannot splice the symbols in? 19:24:43 _without_ eval, that is? 19:25:08 why the eval restriction? 19:25:12 greek-f [~greek-f@athedsl-222741.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:25:15 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-199-78.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:25:19 hi 19:25:25 -!- greek-f [~greek-f@athedsl-222741.home.otenet.gr] has left #lisp 19:25:29 *Oladon_work* boggles 19:25:53 glancing in my utils file, my definition of trace-package uses eval, I'm not sure that it's a problem 19:26:01 you must not use eval unless you must 19:26:23 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 19:26:34 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27:17 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-147-7.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:27:53 if you're really cant stand the word EVAL in your code, you can use COERCE 19:27:57 so I've really found a case where eval is not only allowed, but necessary?? cool! 19:27:59 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:28:23 flip214: you've found a place where using eval is sensible. 19:28:41 "can't use encapsulation to trace anonymous function ..." 19:28:41 sacho_ [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 19:29:51 needed remove-if #'macro-function as well 19:29:55 flip214: for sbcl, you can just do (trace "PACKAGE") 19:30:11 nikodemus: thanks, next time 19:30:46 nikodemus: "The name "cl-ppcre" does not designate any package." 19:30:54 flip214: oh please 19:31:30 flip214: (equal "CL-PPCRE" "cl-ppcre") => false 19:31:39 or nil 19:31:41 whatever 19:31:42 nif [~nor@gateway/tor-sasl/nif] has joined #lisp 19:31:52 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 19:32:23 (string= "CL-PPCRE" :cl-ppcre) => true 19:32:55 but, sbcl's TRACE only understands strings 19:32:56 well, with uppercase letters it works. 19:33:11 flip214: "surprise" :) 19:33:22 flip214: common lisp is case sensitive. 19:33:48 and packages are named by strings 19:34:07 (defpackage |NonUppercasePackage| ...) (trace "NonUppercasePackage") 19:34:10 H4ns: yes, of course. but most times you don't see that - find-package, defpackage etc. all take :cl-ppcre etc 19:34:41 (trace #.(string :cl-ppcre)) 19:35:11 flip214: i see it. 19:35:15 :) 19:35:33 -!- c0atz1n_ [~c0atz1n@189.224.29.202] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:36:02 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-138-134.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 19:36:06 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-199-78.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:36:16 (trace "CL") not recommded! 19:36:40 (trace trace) 19:36:49 too bad it's not a function 19:37:01 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.29.202] has joined #lisp 19:37:07 can't use encapsulation to trace anonymous function is really a bad error 19:37:31 I remember there's been talking that trace would ignore trace requests on the functions trace needs, and/or detects recursion 19:38:33 you can create a trace-cl package, where all functions will be stubs calling CL functions, and then trace all those functions 19:39:24 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:39:47 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:40:01 -!- nif [~nor@gateway/tor-sasl/nif] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:12 thanks, but I'll try to ponder the "Unhandled memory fault at #x0." message I just got 19:40:35 flip214: that's not the only issue with such a plan. some functions depend on identity of others 19:40:55 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:04 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has joined #lisp 19:41:51 if you build one function that does (if (eq key #'whatever) ...) and you put an encapsulating trace on WHATEVER, that function breaks 19:41:53 nikodemus: any help for pure lisp code (no cffi etc) giving 19:41:56 CORRUPTION WARNING in SBCL pid 27322(tid 140737283684096): 19:41:56 Memory fault at 0 (pc=0x100cfcfe33, sp=0x7ffff3ccd248) 19:42:14 paste the backtrace 19:42:14 sbcl 1.0.55.0-debian 19:42:15 flip214: no help, not here, not now 19:42:19 and remove SAFETY 0 19:42:25 well stassats may help :) 19:42:38 by (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'safety 1) 19:42:42 i'm going to watch some tv 19:42:48 stassats: I thought to use (speed 0) (debug 3) (safety 3) 19:42:55 nikodemus: WHAT? 19:43:07 and (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'debug 2) 19:43:11 and recompile everything 19:43:37 Backtrace: 19:43:38 0: (SB-SYS:MEMORY-FAULT-ERROR) 19:43:38 1: ("foreign function: call_into_lisp") 19:43:38 2: ("foreign function: post_signal_tramp") 19:43:38 3: ((LAMBDA (STRING START END) :IN CREATE-SCANNER-AUX) # # #) 19:43:39 4: ((LAMBDA (STRING START END) :IN CREATE-SCANNER-AUX) # # #) 19:43:42 5: ((SB-PCL::FAST-METHOD SCAN #'T) ..) 19:43:42 don't paste here! 19:43:48 stassats: everything including sbcl? 19:43:56 flip214: booooo 19:43:59 or is cl-ppcre enough 19:43:59 no, excluding sbcl 19:44:11 So much pasting... 19:44:14 I know the paste limit is 5 lines, but I would prefer 1. 19:44:22 ThomasH: it is 1 19:44:43 (in #lisp) 19:44:50 and not a very long line, at that 19:44:55 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has quit [Client Quit] 19:45:07 stassats: Oh, I thought it used to be 5, anywho. 19:46:05 nif [~nor@gateway/tor-sasl/nif] has joined #lisp 19:46:06 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-409938.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:19 ok, next time it'll be just 1 line ;) 19:46:24 french [~french@173.136.1.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:38 -!- french [~french@173.136.1.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:46:45 so, did you recompile? 19:47:11 Radium_ [~carbon@117.203.5.243] has joined #lisp 19:48:04 yes ... (clear-system :cl-ppcre), (asdf:oos ...) 19:48:34 so, what error do you get now? 19:48:35 Already fixed some small bug ... but this I don't understand: 19:48:39 invalid number of arguments: 5 19:48:49 0: ((LAMBDA (STRING START END) :IN CREATE-SCANNER-AUX) #(65 65 65 65 65 66 ...) 0 30)[:EXTERNAL] 19:48:59 this expects 3 and gets 3 arguments ... 19:49:15 sbcl debugger doesn't list extraneous arguments 19:49:57 paste the whole backtrace to http://paste.lisp.org/new 19:49:58 and the line it gives me is on a line 19:50:05 (unless (setq *end-string-pos* (funcall end-string-test pos)) 19:50:05 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:50:19 END-STRING-TEST = NIL 19:50:31 but above is the (cond ... ((and starts-with-everything end-string-test) 19:50:43 sacho_ [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 19:50:47 so it shouldn't get into that, and in that line there is no function with 5 arguments 19:50:50 do you have a reduced test-case? 19:52:10 hey, who has fixed the pastee? no longer a blank page after submit! 19:52:15 http://paste.lisp.org/display/129050 19:52:30 it was always that way 19:52:48 http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp would still give you a blank page 19:53:02 but http://paste.lisp.org/new won't 19:53:03 stassats`: yes, only a few lines ... but I'm currently patching cl-ppcre (or at least trying to), so you'll get a different result 19:53:19 ah, ok ... why the difference with/without "/lisp"? 19:53:53 flip214: it tries to post the announcement to #lisp, and the bot is disconnected 19:54:06 still shouldn't just crash and burn 19:54:25 easy for you to say 19:56:14 pepone [~jose@213.184.11.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:56:26 well, just put a try {} catch {} around that 19:56:30 *flip214* is ducking 19:57:20 flip214: so, the error doesn't happen with the vanilla ppcre? 19:57:38 stassats`: wouldn't think so 19:57:45 but I can try, please stand by 19:58:49 the equivalent for vanilla is (scan-to-strings "B(A+)(.)" "AAAAAABAAAAAAAAAA") and it works 19:59:12 flip214: well, just put a try {} catch {} around that 20:00:14 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-138-134.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:51 touché ;) 20:01:27 if you're stuck, you can paste the patch to cl-ppcre too 20:02:10 sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 20:02:31 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@8-255-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:13 hmmm ... the patch is not good enough for reviewing there 20:03:20 but the segfault is a problem 20:04:33 well, not for reviewing, but for helping you catch the problem 20:05:28 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:05:50 sacho_ [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 20:07:39 -!- nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-244.math.tu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:08:04 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:08:04 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-91.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:09:07 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@8-255-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 20:09:42 perhaps the best idea 20:09:47 thanks a lot, good night 20:10:03 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@8-255-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:24 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.119.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:10:42 -!- nif [~nor@gateway/tor-sasl/nif] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:50 good night what? were the diff?! 20:11:05 coming 20:11:17 can you feel it already? 20:11:29 It's not sleeping-time yet. 20:11:50 flip214: i thought you fell asleep while diffing 20:11:58 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:12:16 no, I'm writing a bit of text too. 20:15:42 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:49 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-216-42.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:49 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-216-42.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:15:49 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 20:17:23 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-136-158-113.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:17:29 -!- phf [~phf@75-150-171-219-Philadelphia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 20:17:38 nif [~nor@gateway/tor-sasl/nif] has joined #lisp 20:17:39 -!- zenbalrog [~johnnyc@adsl-98-70-116-224.tys.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:17:50 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:01 flipout` [~user@75-175-123-50.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:42 stassats`: done 20:21:04 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-hudd6-0-0-cust741.4-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:21:39 done where? 20:21:40 schoppen1auer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:21:40 -!- schoppen1auer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 20:22:25 -!- flipout [~user@75-175-123-50.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:23:17 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:14 cl-ppcre-devel@common-lisp.net 20:24:21 mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-hudd6-0-0-cust741.4-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:05 flipout`` [~user@75-175-123-50.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:13 so, although I'm aware that there are other time zones, too, I'll just briefly greet everybody with a short "good night" and by leaving this behind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dWMIuipn_c#t=01m35s 20:27:55 -!- pepone [~jose@213.184.11.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:28:02 -!- flipout` [~user@75-175-123-50.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:30:57 -!- flipout`` [~user@75-175-123-50.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:32:01 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:32:50 ikki [~ikki@189.247.231.176] has joined #lisp 20:33:33 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-019.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:34:19 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:35:14 flipout`` [~user@75-175-123-50.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:47 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@8-255-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 20:38:52 Aargh 20:39:06 If I keep reaching for Haskell every time I have a math problem, I'll never learn Lisp 20:39:10 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:41:24 tomekd789 [tomekd789@hbm66.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:42:11 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:20 Sorry for a possibly basic question, but I feel a little bit confused: I've defined a constant: (defconstant +pool-size+ 50 "Count of genotypes in the pool") 20:43:01 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 20:43:45 now trying to create an array sized by the constant 20:44:05 and I've got an error: Error: (+POOL-SIZE+) is an illegal dimension 20:45:10 What I'm doing is (make-array '(+pool-size+ +3n+ +3n+ +size-of=w+) ...) 20:45:33 Why the '? 20:45:37 tomekd789: You're quoting the array dimensions. 20:45:40 how do you expect all those constants to be evaluated? 20:45:57 stassats, yep, that's my question, as I can see it now 20:46:24 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:46:47 use (LIST ) 20:46:50 but otherwise I've got Error: attempt to call `+POOL-SIZE+' which is an undefined function. 20:46:56 Sgeo: I went through all of the "Try Haskell" tutorials the other day. Didn't see anything compelling, kept thinking, "I can do that in lisp". Granted, it was only the online tutorial. 20:47:08 so, (list +pool-size+ ...), right? 20:47:12 yep 20:47:12 yes 20:47:16 yes 20:47:22 Grand, thanks. Sorry for basic questions. :) 20:47:33 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:47:35 Kron [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has joined #lisp 20:48:09 ThomasH, it's often what you can't do. And what you can't generally do in Haskell is make type errors, the compiler complains. And the type system is rather flexible. But Try Haskell doesn't really show it, I think 20:48:18 Learn You A Haskell is well regarded 20:48:34 I'm sure people make type errors in haskell all the time. 20:48:58 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-67-189-240-148.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:49:51 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:50:20 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:50:35 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 20:51:19 Sgeo: Sure, only so much time in the day. 20:52:02 Sure 20:54:18 *stassats`* checks that he's in #lisp 20:54:28 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:55:08 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55:45 sacho_ [~sacho@87-126-32-123.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 20:58:58 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 20:58:59 huangjs [~user@200.54.109.17] has joined #lisp 20:59:41 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 21:00:01 -!- nif [~nor@gateway/tor-sasl/nif] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:24 -!- machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:00:38 flip214: with safety 1, i just get The value "AAAAAABAAAAAAAAAA" is not of type (SIMPLE-ARRAY (UNSIGNED-BYTE 8)). 21:01:05 Yet another: with (make-array ... :initial-element (rand-byte)) I rather expected that rand-byte will be called subsequently. Instead, it takes a single run, and populates the table with the single value. Is there any other way than "iterate and populate yourself"? 21:01:20 no 21:01:28 OK, thanks 21:01:42 (map-into (make-array ...) #'rand-byte) 21:01:43 lemoinem [~swoog@39-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:40 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:03:06 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:04:01 flip214: that's because insert-advance-fn is wrong, it doesn't evaluate ub8-mode argument, so it's true when you use it with ub8-mode as an argument 21:04:10 kslt1 [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-243.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:22 stassats, well, (map-into *genotype-pool* #'rand-byte) only fills the 1st row of the array. It's 2D. What am I doing wrong? 21:05:17 -!- kslt1 [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-243.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:18 nif [~nor@gateway/tor-sasl/nif] has joined #lisp 21:05:53 tomekd789: The initial example you pasted was 4 dimensions 21:06:00 typed, rather 21:06:22 tomekd789: my example doesn't work on md-arrays 21:07:23 machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:06 ThomasH, I've redesigned the table in the meantime; it will be easier to manipulate on 2D 21:08:23 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-244.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 21:08:31 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:08:54 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zjpypkrydkzxfflz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:08:54 OK, thanks for help. Bye! 21:09:07 -!- tomekd789 [tomekd789@hbm66.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Wychodzi] 21:09:35 -!- shizzy0 [~user@132.198.144.230] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:09:51 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iupwokiehuiwicrk] has joined #lisp 21:09:51 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 21:10:22 ThomasH: the haskell type system is quite interseting, and it's more strongly associated with the language (Python is really really great, but it's not as "in your face" as the haskell type system) 21:12:01 jasom: If I ever get sufficient free time, Haskell is on the list of things to study. 21:12:04 btw is SBCL's compiler still called "Pyhon"? 21:12:06 kslt1 [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-243.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 21:12:15 or did that get left behind when it forked from cmucl 21:12:16 no, they added a T in the middle 21:12:28 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:12:29 thanks stassats` 21:12:49 -!- 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