00:01:21 becasue there is much less i/o going on.. but also becasue of less re-representation 00:02:31 tight benchmarks run the same speed interpred and compiled 00:03:06 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 00:09:09 I've put what-implementation on telnet: telnet://voyager.informatimago.com:8101 00:09:31 So nextime a newbie asks for an implementation that's where he should go. 00:09:46 -!- saeftl [cbauerm@pestilenz.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:11:31 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:13:21 zenbalrog [~johnnyc@adsl-98-70-116-224.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:02 dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 00:15:48 Poor minion 00:23:41 -!- dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:24:23 pjb: it suggested XCL for me which is an implementation I'd never heard of 00:24:54 jasom: good! That make us discover new implementations! :-) 00:24:55 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:25:17 I should add displaying the url of the implementation 00:26:37 xcl is experimental. Lacking a lot of features. Rather slow, at least at startup. 00:26:57 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:27:24 -!- zenbalrog [~johnnyc@adsl-98-70-116-224.tys.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 00:27:43 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-9-73.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:29:13 Fare: let's say "minimalist" it's more a feature than "lacking a lot of features" :-) 00:29:14 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-3-20.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:39 dmiles_afk: actually, there's support for custom classloaders in Android 00:29:42 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:11 it's just that another thing that needs to be taken care of is that DVM != JVM 00:30:55 p_l: oh yeah.. where i was going though with th3 custom classloader of ABCL is that it actualyl adds a layer of unnesisray memory overhead 00:31:11 p_l: very true. google pulled a fast one on that. 00:31:33 let them program in java language and let them think they are programming java (jvm) 00:32:15 i beleive the idea of the classloader was for re-defining compiled functions.. and for class unloading (you release a classloader and all of the class lint goes away) 00:32:20 DataLinkDroid: actually, if you program in Java it works 00:32:47 dmiles_afk: no idea about DVM, but JVM doesn't GC code iirc 00:34:00 the first time i ever messed with ABCL .. i used the JLCA on it and converted it all to C# .. and at the same time broke the compiler/classloader..hehe.. but what was awesome is it still tran 00:34:12 still ran 00:34:31 conan [~conan@conan-thinkpad-t420.poly.edu] has joined #lisp 00:35:02 and still operated/ran lisp applications 00:35:33 saeftl [cbauerm@pestilenz.org] has joined #lisp 00:35:33 tlw8913 [~tlw8913@205.143.222.35] has joined #lisp 00:35:55 i feel like that impl (just break the classloader/compiler the way i did) would run fine 00:36:17 and less overhead 00:36:37 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:37:57 oh.. and.. no code (classbytes) has to be loaded/unloaded 00:38:34 -!- Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:43:42 dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 00:48:23 -!- tlw8913 [~tlw8913@205.143.222.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:50:55 cage [~keiji@FLH1Aaq228.fko.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 00:53:35 tlw8913 [~tlw8913@nat1002.oc.edu] has joined #lisp 00:57:53 -!- dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:58:32 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 00:59:21 dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 00:59:36 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:59:47 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:00:01 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:49 -!- tlw8913 [~tlw8913@nat1002.oc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:08:32 -!- dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:09:53 -!- djanatyn [~user@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:13 djanatyn [~user@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 01:10:38 kami`` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 01:12:05 dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 01:12:44 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:13:22 tlw8913 [~tlw8913@nat1002.oc.edu] has joined #lisp 01:13:35 -!- tlw8913 [~tlw8913@nat1002.oc.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 01:17:53 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:43 Qian_ [~Qian@123.118.193.159] has joined #lisp 01:19:02 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:22:27 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-250-67.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:10 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:26:01 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-196-39.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:26:37 when i try to install weblocks in MacOS, i met a problem like this: 01:26:42 -!- Kynes`_ is now known as Kynes` 01:27:08 -!- harish [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:27:37 decoding error on stream 01:28:04 # for "file /Users/wuqian/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/rfc2388-20120107-http/rfc2388.asd" 01:28:05 {1271FA99}> 01:28:06 (:EXTERNAL-FORMAT :ASCII): 01:28:08 the octet sequence (196) cannot be decoded. 01:28:10 [Condition of type ASDF:LOAD-SYSTEM-DEFINITION-ERROR] 01:28:19 adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-252-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:32 does anyone can give me some advice? 01:28:35 Qian_: use a different :external-format. 01:29:18 Qian_: with sbcl, the simpliest is to set your environment variables LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 or en_US.ISO-8859-1 01:29:30 THis has nothing to do with lisp, only with your unix configuration. 01:29:44 You'd have the same problem in C. 01:30:06 (only C would break silently). 01:30:26 thanks a lot :) 01:30:34 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:36 i will try it 01:30:38 more accurately, C would continue to work as expected until you tried to manipulate the data as encoded text. 01:30:45 at which point subtle errors would occur 01:30:53 under certain specific circumstances 01:32:06 Well, it would work until as expected until you used some locale specific feature. 01:32:37 which is fairly unusual in casual programming! 01:32:44 in C, anyway. 01:32:49 (arguably this is a flaw in C) 01:32:56 At which point it would continue to work as expected, if only you had the right expectations. 01:33:19 Locale support? 01:35:27 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:36:18 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 01:47:59 -!- dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:49:22 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@17.196.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:53:15 Zhivago: more, the fact that it takes quite a bit of effort to handle locales. 01:53:19 afaik. 01:55:25 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-252-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 01:56:58 adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-252-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:56 -!- cage [~keiji@FLH1Aaq228.fko.mesh.ad.jp] has left #lisp 01:59:35 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-252-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:00:28 -!- sbryant [~freenode@67.23.8.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:00:28 -!- conan [~conan@conan-thinkpad-t420.poly.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:00:31 dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 02:01:46 -!- sshirokov [~sshirokov@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:02:11 adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-252-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:17 Modius [~user@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:04:52 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:05:01 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:05:40 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 02:08:48 -!- dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:09:22 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:26 patrickwonders_ [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:09:59 Matt__ [6c0410fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.4.16.252] has joined #lisp 02:10:09 I want you to type in a program that makes a list whose only element is the command to make a list. I did "(list (list ))" and it didn't work. What did I do wrong? 02:10:25 I saw that on this website and I tried (list (list)) 02:10:33 could you help please 02:11:15 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@166.147.99.243] has joined #lisp 02:12:15 Matt__: you need quotation. 02:12:32 so (list '(list )) 02:12:47 ? 02:12:55 You could try it. 02:13:07 is there a macro to expand a list to arguments? I'm thinking of pythons * operator. 02:13:26 I think it worked 02:13:37 but I wasn't sure what to expect, so I'm not sure, but thanks 02:13:38 simon_weber: apply? It's a function. 02:13:47 -!- patrickwonders_ [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:14:25 Bike 02:14:30 I'm trying to learn Lisp using http://gay-lisp.org/ 02:14:36 yes, weird name, but it's good 02:14:46 and I tried that, but it didn't work. any other ideas? 02:15:20 First you should think about what's wrong the answer you have. 02:16:06 -!- daintihood [~quincewor@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:16:16 dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 02:16:40 pkhuong: thanks, I'll check it out 02:17:07 pkhuong: this works; thanks. 02:17:31 Matt__: (list #'list) ? 02:18:01 sadly, no 02:18:14 it's only done lists so far 02:18:18 It's probably a lisp-1. 02:18:23 wait 02:18:24 oh 02:18:26 it's scheme 02:18:33 but that shouldn't change anything, should it? 02:18:41 or... 02:18:42 changes quite a bit 02:18:49 #1=(list '#1#)! 02:18:55 even with list? I mean, that's the syntax it told me to do anyway 02:18:57 Matt__: Really - think about what's wrong with the answer of (list '(list)). What is the result of that? 02:19:13 the notion of "where" functions reside is different between common lisp & scheme 02:19:20 I know, it came out right when I did it on sbcl 02:19:29 but on that website, it didn't work 02:19:30 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@166.147.99.243] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 02:19:56 I'm not sure why :( 02:20:13 what about (list list)? 02:20:20 Matt__: (list '(list)) does not result in a list with one element which is the "command" to make a list, on SBCL or on that site. 02:20:26 list on its own returns proc:list, which I presume is its function object thingy (technical term) 02:20:30 really? 02:20:31 hmm 02:20:33 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-209.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:20:40 when I did it on the console 02:20:43 it returned 02:20:48 ((list)) 02:20:50 so I assumed 02:20:55 something right happened 02:21:08 But ((list)) isn't a list of a "command". It's a list of a list, can't you see? 02:21:23 yeah...now I'm confused 02:21:29 if that isn't the right answer 02:21:34 then what is the right answer? 02:21:38 I have no idea what it means by "command" 02:22:06 the text that would be evaluated to create a list? the function object that runs the "list" operation? should there be contents in the list? 02:22:21 jake___ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has joined #lisp 02:22:35 it just says "I want you to type in a program that makes a list whose only element is the command to make a list." 02:22:41 ikki [~ikki@189.247.231.40] has joined #lisp 02:23:19 Matt__: If it asked you for a program that makes a list whose only element is 9, what would you put in? 02:23:31 '(list 1 2 3) would technically meet that, by my reading 02:23:33 (list 9) 02:23:42 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-209.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:23:47 Okay, so now replace the 9 with the "command for list". 02:24:03 wow, I hope this isn't a pun 02:24:10 (list "command for list") 02:24:11 I'll go try that 02:24:13 Matt: so you want a value that looks like: (list) ... so a list of one element that is the symbol `list'. (list 'list) 02:24:14 Um. No. 02:24:48 Try what adeht said, if you really don't get it. If it hasn't introduced quotation it might just be (list list). 02:25:08 (list list) was it 02:25:20 but that produces an error in my console? 02:25:34 -!- wildnux_ [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:25:36 but on the website... 02:25:45 wildnux_ [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:25:49 whatever, it worked, I'll just move on 02:25:51 thanks guys 02:25:54 I appreciate it 02:25:55 -!- Matt__ [6c0410fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.4.16.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:25:59 in sbcl, list does not have a value (by default), it only has a function 02:26:12 in whatever lisp-1 that is, the value of list itself is the function, it seems 02:26:39 mathrick: The language of SBCL is not the language used on that site. They're different dialects, like French and Spanish; only mutually intelligible to a point. 02:26:46 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-pwiuyncemrohnmkh] has joined #lisp 02:26:48 well, different languages, I'm not a linguit. 02:26:50 *linguist 02:27:00 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-pwiuyncemrohnmkh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:27:08 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-jzlilvphxpftzpor] has joined #lisp 02:27:52 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.90.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:29:11 daintihood [~counterri@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 02:29:25 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:29:30 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.16.60] has joined #lisp 02:30:19 tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 02:30:26 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-209.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:31:54 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-209.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:34:11 kwertii [~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii] has joined #lisp 02:34:24 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:35:00 -!- CampinSam [~Sam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:37:08 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890229.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:37:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.231.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:44:56 -!- dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:48:25 tashbear [~tash@unaffiliated/el-tash/x-7763973] has joined #lisp 02:48:31 -!- tashbear [~tash@unaffiliated/el-tash/x-7763973] has left #lisp 02:48:46 eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has joined #lisp 02:50:14 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.148.106] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 02:50:15 dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 02:51:29 I updated telnet://voyager.informatimago.com:8101 to display the chosen implementation record. 02:55:37 sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 02:55:49 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483BBD5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:31 hi. am i doing anyting questionable in here? http://paste.lisp.org/display/128992 02:57:18 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:27 I would name them in-parallel and constantly-in-parallel. 02:57:40 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p54839A08.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:57:53 ok, as far as implementation goes no issues? 02:58:02 sezo: the second macro is not hygienic. 02:58:07 Use a gensym instead of quit. 02:58:22 right forgot about that 02:58:29 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:58:35 check alexandria:with-gensyms 02:58:55 sezo: I fail to see the point of using iter here. Inside macros, you could as well use DO or TABGBODY and GO. 02:59:17 yeah there's no point 03:00:02 how about returning quit-thread, is that good design, and us it guaranteed to work? 03:00:06 is 03:00:24 There's no problem where. 03:00:24 flet block no longer exists 03:00:30 cf. loop and loop-finish 03:00:46 flet is LEXICAL! 03:00:53 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has left #lisp 03:00:56 ok good 03:02:38 pjb: Nice service. Your software recommended XCL to me. 03:02:53 Even if it's minimalist? 03:03:02 Why do you want an implementation written in C++? 03:03:10 Choose one written in CL. 03:03:13 pjb: I don't know. I just answered stuff. 03:03:17 :-) 03:03:25 You may also answer 0 if you don't know. 03:03:58 pjb: That's what was my answers for most of questions. 03:04:24 Now I'd need help collecting "features". 03:04:46 -!- gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-cyyqqnwxvtlmzkjc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:05:37 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 03:07:24 I fixed everything I think. didn't use do/tagbody/go as I'm more comfortable with loop. http://paste.lisp.org/display/128992#1 03:08:46 (loop until quit do ) 03:08:49 (loop until ,quit do ) 03:08:54 unless there's some reason i have to specifically use tagbody for? I think I remember hearing about it's use a while ago in this channel 03:09:22 -!- jake___ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:09:35 ISTR there were sometimes some problems with LOOP in macro. But nothing too bad. 03:10:11 on old implementations? 03:10:14 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-jzlilvphxpftzpor] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:10:25 the loop probably expands to a tagbody anyway. 03:10:29 No, more related to the implicit block nil they have or something like that. 03:10:29 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-uyucgyfykuhekkpt] has joined #lisp 03:10:49 That said, DO, DO* DOTIMES, DOLIST also have implicit stuff. 03:12:02 I think (loop until ,quit do ,@body) should work too, there's implicit progn after do 03:12:27 kennyd: yes, but if body contains stray variables it won't work. 03:12:39 do doesn't take a body, but a sequence of lists. 03:12:41 pjb example? 03:13:08 body = ((print 'hi) (setf finally t) finally) 03:13:29 And remember that loop keywords are any symbol from any package. 03:13:57 conan [~conan@ool-1892f73f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:30 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:15:58 -!- dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:18:28 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8B0E.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:21:37 nixfreak [~nix@mn-10k-dhcp1-5344.dsl.hickorytech.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:45 -!- conan [~conan@ool-1892f73f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:25:31 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 03:26:45 -!- nixfreak [~nix@mn-10k-dhcp1-5344.dsl.hickorytech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:30:49 lispnewbie [6c23a916@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.35.169.22] has joined #lisp 03:31:19 (eq (common-lisp scheme))? 03:31:30 dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 03:31:31 Almost. 03:31:58 lispnewbie: check: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122296 03:32:19 ur5us [~ur5us@17.196.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 03:32:50 so i just can run my cl code in scheme? 03:33:02 no :) 03:33:24 lispnewbie: if you restrict yourself to that small intersection, or if you implement CL in scheme. 03:33:28 yes. 03:33:34 lol is cl right? 03:33:42 lispnewbie: yes. 03:33:48 you can't even run X scheme code in Y scheme implementation 03:33:56 lispnewbie: there are applications that are written in a subset of scheme implemented in CL. 03:34:19 so why use scheme instead of cl? 03:34:26 Yes, why? 03:34:35 lispnewbie: have a look at http://cliki.net/ 03:35:18 dead link? 03:35:33 no bouch of links 03:37:26 yeah I can load it now 03:37:39 is scheme used more then common lisp? 03:38:00 I don't think so. 03:38:20 scheme is more implemented 03:38:23 But it's probably implemented more. 03:38:29 Because it's simplier. 03:39:05 Why would it matter, in any case? 03:39:23 -!- dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:40:07 well the text adventure i'm creating is in common lisp 03:40:30 Good choice. 03:41:09 except there isn't a tutorial for scheme 03:41:20 link: http://www.lisperati.com/casting.html 03:41:48 lispnewbie: that's why you're using Common Lisp. 03:41:50 lispnewbie: there are tons 03:42:10 Anyways, who needs a tutorial when the reference is 50 pages! 03:42:14 really for casting spels? 03:42:39 land of lisp is the real reason i got into lisp 03:42:41 lispnewbie: you're not making sense. 03:42:46 ok 03:42:52 lispnewbie: for scheme intros, I recommend HTDP and SICP, just search for them 03:42:56 dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 03:43:03 Why would you want a scheme version of casting spels, when You're writing your program in Common Lisp? 03:43:10 Although SICP isn't about scheme. 03:43:29 arguably, neither is HTDP 03:43:30 casting spels is a text adventure tutorial in cl 03:43:45 And you think we don't know that? 03:43:56 thats what i want to do 03:44:03 So what's your problem? 03:44:16 i need something to get started 03:44:24 lispnewbie: notice the #lispcafe channel might be more apropriate for your needs. 03:44:42 whats #lispcafe? 03:44:52 lispnewbie: type: /join #lispcafe 03:45:20 so this is more hardcore? 03:45:59 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:45:59 ewww #lispcafe is off-topic chat 03:46:23 And random ramblings such as you're doing here. Move them over there. 03:46:26 jake__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has joined #lisp 03:46:33 Just keep your pants on. 03:46:39 nydel [~jo@72.197.244.33] has joined #lisp 03:46:47 Awwwww... 03:46:50 teggi [~teggi@113.173.29.162] has joined #lisp 03:47:39 Can ffi be used with static libraries? 03:48:21 ivan-kanis: yes. But AFAIK, not with CFFI. 03:49:26 pjb: ok, I'll research more when I'll work on it 03:49:47 yareally [~yarly@codingcreation.com] has joined #lisp 03:50:41 -!- dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:52:34 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has left #lisp 03:52:45 c0atz1n_ [~c0atz1n@189.238.45.167] has joined #lisp 03:52:53 -!- copperx [~rafa@adsl-75-54-98-59.dsl.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: copperx] 03:54:13 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.16.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:55:22 what should I use to portably convert UTF-16 (wchar_t *) to a lisp string? 03:55:35 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 03:55:47 babel 03:56:12 Remember that wchar_t isn't necessarily utf-16. 03:56:34 And, indeed, using wchar_t with any particular encoding in mind is an error 03:57:15 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@185-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:58:44 nixfreak [~nix@mn-10k-dhcp1-5344.dsl.hickorytech.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:55 also isn't wchar_t actually a UCS-2 on win32 04:00:55 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 04:01:04 The compiler picks it, not the OS. 04:01:08 *jasom* checks and finds that's only true for versions older than win2k 04:01:57 Zhivago: true 04:02:08 cage [~keiji@FLH1Aaq228.fko.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 04:02:25 I should have said the type referred to as wchar_t in the win32 API reference 04:02:39 Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:20 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.64.132] has joined #lisp 04:04:35 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04:47 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 04:05:39 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:55 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:59 patrickwonders_ [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 04:06:04 -!- patrickwonders_ [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:06:36 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 04:06:40 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 04:09:58 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 04:10:24 from my experience wchar_t is either 16bit or 32bit 04:13:18 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 04:13:27 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:13:40 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:13:46 -!- lispnewbie [6c23a916@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.35.169.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:14:12 adu: I've seen compilers where it's SJIS JIS or Big5 04:14:45 -!- macobo [~macobo@233.24.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:16:53 Somewhat of a functional programming/lisp novice here. Suppose I have a string of words and I want to put the words into a list and then do some manipulations on the words (filtering, replacing them, etc). Is there a more lisp like way to do it than just doing "loop" on each word to store it in the list and such? 04:17:21 -!- nydel [~jo@72.197.244.33] has left #lisp 04:18:08 yareally: see mapcar, remove-if 04:18:13 jasom: which compilers? 04:18:26 okay, i'll take a look at them, thanks 04:18:51 adu: the japanese ones were for the automotive market, I honestly don't remember which one did big5, but it was the first time I'd ever heard of big5, so *shrug* 04:19:16 jasom: big5 is chinese, not japanese 04:19:26 adu: that's why I addressed it differently 04:19:40 oh ok 04:19:41 JIS and SJIS were automitive, I don't remember which one was big5 04:20:27 i original tried (coerce stringOfWords 'list), but that wasn't exactly what I wanted as calling (car (coerce stringOfWords 'list)) only gave the first character 04:20:31 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:20:31 originally* 04:21:06 yareally: oh, I missed the first part of what you were asking (put the words into a list) 04:21:30 ah yeah :). It was sort of a 2 step issue I didn't make clear, haha 04:21:38 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209.52.84.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:22:00 I could do some sort of substring and push them into the list or something like that from the string? Or is there a better way 04:22:09 yareally: wait, so you have a string like "word1 word2 word3"? 04:22:11 yareally: there are a few utility functions for splitting strings, and you can also just locally bind the readtable to split it; not sure that either is more lispy 04:22:19 slyrus [~chatzilla@209.52.84.50] has joined #lisp 04:22:48 yeah Bike, it's currenntly like as you described 04:23:08 yareally: just use the split-sequence utility library, no need to reinvent the wheel. 04:23:16 http://www.cliki.net/SPLIT-SEQUENCE 04:23:16 where if you print it it would print out something like (#\c #\h #\a #\r) 04:23:37 oh i saw that earlier and wasn't sure if it was overkill or not, thanks 04:23:41 (ql:quickload :split-sequence) 04:23:46 yes, strings are vectors of chars, basically. #\whatever is the syntax for individual chars. 04:24:06 COERCE just returns a list equivalent to that vector. 04:24:13 it has no knowledge of spaces. 04:24:24 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-252-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 04:24:28 there's also cl-ppcre, regex library, you can fetch it with quicklisp too (yeah that would be an overkill in this case but useful in some others). 04:24:30 yeah i figured that out later that it was not quite as intended :) haha 04:24:53 patrickwonders_ [~patrickwo@mobile-166-147-098-106.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:44 thanks for all the answers though. it's sometimes hard to find good discussions on internet searches for relevant info so i turned to good old IRC 04:26:13 happy to help. 04:26:21 at least for lisp info, not quite as easy as searching for java sometimes or python 04:26:35 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:26:57 cliki is usually a good place to look. 04:27:00 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 04:27:41 ah don't think i've seen that, thanks 04:29:12 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping 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06:18:25 -!- nixfreak [~nix@mn-10k-dhcp1-5344.dsl.hickorytech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:18:48 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:19:01 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082AA42.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:21:57 I expect this to work, but I get "undefined function a". can someone explain to me what's going on? 06:22:17 this what? lisppaste 06:22:27 http://pastie.org/3802676 06:22:39 simon_weber: lisppaste is: http://paste.lisp.org/new 06:23:21 simon_weber: read http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html 06:24:18 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:24:27 pjb: is this a letrec kind of issue? It'll take me a little bit to digest something useful from this. 06:25:07 <|3b|> LET doesn't bind in the function namespace in CL 06:25:13 iden is bound in the variable namespace, not the function namespace. Try (funcall iden "test") 06:25:21 *|3b|* isn't sure how you got an error about a function named "a" from that thoutgh 06:25:33 -!- starji [~starji@c-76-105-137-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:25:45 whoops, meant s/a/iden. I changed that for clarity after pasting 06:25:53 <|3b|> if you want a local function, use FLET or LABELS 06:26:20 |3b| Bike: got it. thanks 06:30:16 you can use let* too instead of nested lets. (let* ((iden (lambda (x) x)) (b (funcall iden "test"))) .. ) 06:30:19 -!- kami`` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:30:28 -!- trebor_home [~email@dslb-088-069-131-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:30:40 -!- venk [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:30:54 drumond19 [~drumond19@186.214.53.5] has joined #lisp 06:32:12 kennyd: yeah, I was actually using let*; it was a toy example. thanks! 06:34:50 -!- dim` [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:34:58 -!- drumond19 [~drumond19@186.214.53.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:36:49 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-107-3-142-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 06:37:49 super, it's working. thanks, all 06:41:33 dim` [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 06:42:39 is there something like light table for common lisp? 06:42:42 tashbear [~tash@unaffiliated/el-tash/x-7763973] has joined #lisp 06:42:56 -!- tashbear [~tash@unaffiliated/el-tash/x-7763973] has left #lisp 06:46:17 metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 06:47:15 flip214: why haven't you programmed something like light table in Common Lisp> 06:47:16 ? 06:47:23 or even just in emacs? 06:48:12 pjb: because every time I ask about something re swank here I either get "that's not possible" or "we don't need that" or "we don't want that"? ;) 06:48:20 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 06:48:42 -!- Qian_ [~Qian@123.118.193.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:48:52 What is a light table? 06:48:59 flip214: we have the means to make our life bearable. 06:49:22 but why not make it even better? that's what technology promises, after all ... 06:49:36 Bike: http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/04/12/light-table---a-new-ide-concept/ 06:50:18 flip214: that's why I'm reproaching you not to have written it in CL! 06:50:27 flip214: what are you waitting to make something better in CL? 06:51:36 pjb: hmmm, perhaps some free time? job + family takes a fair bit ... 06:52:05 flip214: so do java^W clojure programmers have more time? 06:52:08 if it would save you time, spending time should not be an issue. if it doesn't then why would i want it anyways? 06:52:27 flip214: furthermore, I'd bet it didn't take that long to do. 06:52:53 pjb: I don't know about "clojure programmers" in general, but it's enough that a single one has the time. *I* didn't. 06:53:59 Perhaps you should stop doing what you're doing, and start writing CL programs, and make a business out of it, and hire more CL programmers? 06:54:46 that's a good idea. just after I got the lottery jackpot, ok? 06:55:26 Ragnaroek [~Adium@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 06:56:53 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:57:06 pjb: i like the way you think, i'm trying to bootstrap myself into that right now. 06:57:23 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 06:58:00 fortunately i can survive on ramen. 06:58:04 flip214: I haven't seen anything like that specifically. Are you thinking of a specific part of it, like the "partial evaluation" thing? 06:59:15 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-jiepjhwqpmxhrksy] has joined #lisp 06:59:24 Bike: look at the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUv66718DII 07:00:58 splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has joined #lisp 07:01:02 morning 07:03:07 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@90.150.174.116] has joined #lisp 07:04:06 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has joined #lisp 07:08:03 macobo [~macobo@193.40.12.10] has joined #lisp 07:12:43 morning splittist! where are you these days? 07:12:58 nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-244-7.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 07:13:02 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:13:32 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:13:38 nixfreak [~nix@69.24.180.224] has joined #lisp 07:13:46 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-85.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:14:01 sacho_ [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 07:14:12 vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has joined #lisp 07:15:09 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@1.149.235.129] has quit [Quit: Bye] 07:15:41 gaidal [~gaidal@195.198.40.164] has joined #lisp 07:15:43 -!- kornshell [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/skulls] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:16:29 -!- metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:16:38 potatozj [dacdac02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.205.172.2] has joined #lisp 07:17:35 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@67.169.182.169] has joined #lisp 07:18:45 -!- machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:21:04 -!- dim` [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:21:14 in my emacs setup, I set slime-lisp-implementations to '((sbcl ("/path/to/sbcl" "--dynamic-space-size 6gb"))), but when launched, those args just end up in sb-ext:*posix-argv*, and the heap size stays at default 07:21:35 when I include it all in 1 string, then of course it says that it can't find that file, treating the entire string w/args as the filename 07:21:46 how exactly does this get passed from emacs to the cmdline properly? 07:21:57 argument LIST. 07:22:09 dim` [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 07:22:13 ((sbcl ("/path/to/sbcl" ("--dynamic-space-size" "6gb")))) 07:22:21 argh, okay, thanks 07:22:23 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 07:22:30 tried a ton of other combinations, just not that one :-P 07:22:46 metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 07:23:08 Phoodus: you need to write more C programs :-) 07:23:20 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:23:25 "Wrong type argument: stringp, ("--dynamic-space-size" "6gb")" 07:23:37 slyrus: same old. Actually, I was trying to get langutils to work yesterday and ran into a silly external-format issue. It's always the little things... 07:23:59 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:48 http://paste.lisp.org/+2RJA 07:24:57 I see the European Lisp Symposium is counteracting the tanning effects of their "Sea & Sun & Coffee" start with "lightening" talks. 07:25:10 So that would be: ((sbcl ("/path/to/sbcl" "--dynamic-space-size" "6gb"))) 07:25:21 yeah, which is what I had before 07:25:47 machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:58 and for some reason, it "took" now 07:26:07 Why is it not http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lsVsg4wyk4 ? 07:26:16 I wonder if I didn't re-evaluate properly in my scratch buffer.... 07:26:39 pjb: insufficient Secret Service agents? 07:27:17 splittist: Well, I wouldn't think that. For such a small community, there are probably more secret agents than you'd expect. 07:28:51 Lisp doesn't offer data hiding, so all my agents are non-secret services 07:28:56 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-3-20.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 07:29:21 Phoodus: closures can help hiding data. 07:29:58 depending on introspection tools ;) 07:30:58 Phoodus: the same goes for most other programming languages. in lisp (optimize (debug 0) (speed 3)) may help in that respect. 07:31:19 -!- egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:31:23 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 07:31:29 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 07:32:09 -!- dim` [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:34:53 trebor_dki [~user@130.83.156.186] has joined #lisp 07:36:21 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 07:36:43 -!- tvaalen [~r@67.217.170.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:36:49 ivan-kanis 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[~no@host-92-8-157-201.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:44 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:01 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-114-109.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:15:29 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 09:16:17 -!- maccy is now known as macobo 09:18:02 anyone can say what happened with my sbcl ? 09:18:05 http://sprunge.us/iHPH 09:18:38 i just run (ql:quickload 'lparallel-test) (lparallel-test:execute) 09:18:41 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.95.1] 09:19:22 all was going ok before FLOOD-TEST, and then sbcl said that 09:22:38 anonus: it appears pretty clear -- your SBCL image is fucked up 09:23:01 but it's not 09:23:16 i've fresh install of sbcl 09:23:18 Y U SO SURE? 09:23:31 it's not the disk image, but the one curretly running 09:23:36 and i've run tests from user 09:23:37 oh 09:23:40 ok 09:23:44 why? O_o 09:24:10 let's try guessing: lparallel tests did it? 09:24:58 yea, i know, i mean how it did that ? 09:25:20 «Unhandled memory fault at #x0» looks pretty obvious 09:25:33 accessing to 0 address ? 09:26:29 -!- metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:26:32 does sbcl not protect core from such vandalism ? 09:26:33 well, i cannot reproduce 09:27:09 did FLOOD-TEST passed ok? 09:28:23 all the tests passed for me 09:28:34 i'll try running a couple more times 09:28:48 it finished already? o_O 09:28:53 oh, here it is, i got corruption, too 09:29:10 it takes my machine around 15 minutes to finish it 09:29:15 alvis [~user@tx-184-6-177-81.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 09:29:20 silenius [~silenius@i59F75B60.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:29:20 wow, cool 09:29:26 i should report that 09:29:53 yup. also getting it. 09:30:53 anonus: Are you running it on ancient hardware? :) 09:30:59 thanks everyone to clearing things out 09:31:11 schmx: i7 2600K with 32Gb mem 09:31:18 huh. weird. 09:31:31 took me a minute tops to get to the flood-test and then it exploded. 09:31:32 very weird, i think on my laptop the tests run in less than a minute 09:31:36 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 09:31:49 hmm 09:32:11 well, if they do not hit the problem 09:32:27 are they all failed ? 09:33:00 wow 09:33:06 my sbcl is broken 09:34:54 Well there is a real issue here with the corruption... but 15 minutes on that hardware is just bizarre :) 09:35:10 harish [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 09:35:16 -!- harish [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:23 i should try rerun it 09:35:24 harish_ [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 09:36:01 oh, ok, it become corrupted after less than 20 seconds 09:36:33 i think i just have some background processes when i was trying to run it at morning 09:36:37 -!- harish_ [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Client Quit] 09:37:08 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-244-7.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:37:53 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-197-59.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:38:22 how i can get cl implementation information (what i should report in bug description) ? 09:38:37 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:38:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:38:48 is sbcl --version and uname will be enough ? 09:39:14 should be 09:40:10 btw, i'd probably never use that library 09:40:15 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:40:24 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-209.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:40:25 it has (safety 0) in normal optimization settings 09:40:42 sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 09:43:03 thanks everyone 09:43:07 jdz: is it bad ? 09:43:18 of course it is bad 09:43:35 i too always specify (safety 0) in parts that should be really efficient 09:43:57 have you done any measurements to see what the difference from (safety 1) is? 09:44:01 after test and debug of course 09:44:07 nope 09:44:19 ok, what it checks? 09:44:21 then don't do it 09:44:24 where i can read that ? 09:44:32 implementation notes 09:44:47 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:45:24 ehu [~ehuels@109.37.154.215] has joined #lisp 09:45:37 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:46:50 -!- thepreacher [~thepreach@32.102.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:47:47 anonus: see https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/common-lisp/interactive/interactive.lisp#line64 09:48:02 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 09:51:01 OK, cannot reproduce when compiled with safety 3; that's all i could do 09:51:55 :o The mystery of the lisp 09:52:04 oh noes, success 09:52:14 The value LPARALLEL.PROMISE::NO-RESULT is not of type LIST. 10:00:13 looks like the problem is in the flood test itself 10:00:37 sacho_ [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 10:01:22 maybe 10:04:04 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:04:11 -!- potatozj [dacdac02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.205.172.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:07:08 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:11:24 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:11:33 Bacteria: it is not a mistery, it is divine :) 10:13:35 pjb: it is i'm looking for, thanks 10:14:17 Hahahah :P I think I'm starting to get the hang of lisp. I'm seeing the light :P 10:17:02 Does anyone have experience with using sdl/opengl bindings? 10:17:15 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:17:16 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 10:17:45 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:17:52 Bacteria: is that what you really want to know? 10:18:19 Bacteria: yes, anyone has. 10:18:30 Hahahah :P 10:19:52 Well, I'm starting to code up a small protein structure viewer. Wanted to hear of any experiences with them. 10:20:25 Bacteria: ask on #lispgames (or #lispgame I don't know whic). 10:20:28 +h 10:20:44 Ah cool. Thanks pjb. 10:22:00 Bacteria: also, https://github.com/jdz/brians-brain is a pretty program which uses OpenGL for display 10:22:13 s/pretty/pretty small 10:22:36 (get out of my way, brain!) 10:22:42 Hahahah. 10:22:48 Ah nice, this looks awesome 10:22:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.127] has joined #lisp 10:23:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.127] has quit [Changing host] 10:23:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:23:25 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 10:23:46 -!- splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:24:44 -!- PECCU [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:27:24 jdz, did you just call glut through ffi? 10:27:30 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [~Administr@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:27:56 Bacteria: it uses cl-opengl 10:28:03 Bacteria: which has some wrappers 10:28:05 Ahhh 10:28:11 Bacteria: the code is very small, just go check it out 10:28:27 Bacteria: https://github.com/jdz/brians-brain/blob/master/display.lisp 10:32:03 Quetzalcoatl_ [~Administr@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:34:22 splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has joined #lisp 10:35:07 Ahh, I found the dependencies. I coun't see where you were loading the cl-opengl 10:38:04 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:38:46 This is really cool jdz 10:39:44 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-4-203.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:41:10 jdz: at the end of the blog entry: "Cangratulations to everybody who got this far" s/Can/Con/ 10:41:29 cage [~cage@FLH1Aaq228.fko.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 10:41:31 -!- [SLB] [casper@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:42:30 pjb: thanks (but nobody's gonna read it any more, so not sure it's worth trying to change; like, maybe it will pop up in people's blogreaders or something...) 10:42:38 mathrick__ [~mathrick@94.144.63.10] has joined #lisp 10:42:47 *Bacteria* is reading it! 10:42:52 :P 10:43:00 -!- mathrick__ is now known as mathrick 10:43:13 jdz: I just read it. 10:43:40 pjb: wow, you're fast! 10:43:56 I tend to read the conclusions when I'm in a hurry :-) 10:44:07 Oooooh. I like the optimization section 10:45:53 it's the fist hit for "Cangratulations lisp", though... 10:45:59 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:46:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:47:17 Hahahah, that's all that matters :P 10:47:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:48:36 nha [~prefect@130.149.15.227] has joined #lisp 10:51:11 Is there a good guide on how to set types? 10:51:25 I'm trying to set a variable of a struct to be a double-float 10:51:39 It's quite possible I'm retarded... 10:52:11 naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-260-135.w92-157.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:52:21 anonus: the problem is in (force promise-base) method / unwrap-result / (first result) 10:52:43 anonus: looks like a race condition or something 10:52:55 -!- naiv_ [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-146-41.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:54:13 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:32 jdz: can you point the exact location so i can report it ? 10:54:44 anonus: i just did :/ 10:55:07 promise.lisp:127:49 10:55:11 thanks 10:57:25 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 10:58:16 -!- BrianRice [~water@75-172-21-21.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:31 BrianRice [~water@75-172-21-21.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:24 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@67.169.182.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:59:36 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:03 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-018.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:00:06 naiv_ [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-260-135.w92-157.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:02:52 TimKack` [~user@c-2ec20ff0-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 11:05:49 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec20f39-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:10:32 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:11:33 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.29.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:50 -!- naiv_ [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-260-135.w92-157.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Discuter simplement. Partout.] 11:14:01 naiv_ [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-260-135.w92-157.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:16:37 -!- naiv_ [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-260-135.w92-157.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:03 maccy [~macobo@sein.ut.ee] has joined #lisp 11:19:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-018.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:19:37 -!- macobo [~macobo@193.40.12.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:20:53 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-032.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:22:38 joachifm [~user@2001:1ad8:c:a4b:2e27:d7ff:fea9:27b6] has joined #lisp 11:23:22 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.148.106] has joined #lisp 11:23:23 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-4-203.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:25:25 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.148.106] has quit [Client Quit] 11:25:34 -!- nha [~prefect@130.149.15.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:25:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:26:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:29:33 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.148.106] has joined #lisp 11:32:07 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-4-203.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:34:01 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-018.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:36:25 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@60.225.85.11] has quit [Quit: .] 11:36:40 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F75B60.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40:05 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 11:40:13 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 11:42:07 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 11:43:49 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-018.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:44:02 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-jiepjhwqpmxhrksy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:19 ghuntley [~ghuntley@CPE-60-225-85-11.hhui2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:47:05 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:47:22 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 11:47:39 -!- TimKack` [~user@c-2ec20ff0-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:47:50 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:50:17 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.219] has joined #lisp 11:51:23 -!- cage [~cage@FLH1Aaq228.fko.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:37 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.148.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:52:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:53:23 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-030.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:53:24 Bacteria: e.g. (defstruct mystruct (var 0.0d0 :type double-float)) 11:53:46 Ahhh, that's what I was missing 11:53:53 the d0 11:54:38 Thanks free_thinker 11:58:33 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #lisp 11:59:15 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:14 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 12:00:26 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-76.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 12:02:53 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-030.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:03:34 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@90.150.174.116] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:04:21 Joreji_ [~thomas@73-033.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:04:44 -!- maccy is now known as macobo 12:09:14 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@73-033.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:10:44 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:10:51 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:10:53 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has 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joined #lisp 13:14:34 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:20:35 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:20:58 dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:20 dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:44 X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 13:23:05 hey I'm really considering using racket for a project, but I'm fairly new to cl, so I'm unsure what features it lacks in comparison to a slime/sbcl mix 13:23:38 I mean geiser seems really cool, and also pretty active in development 13:23:50 but I'm pretty blind to what I'm going to be missing out on, comapratively 13:23:57 comparatively* 13:26:10 dekuked: well the first (and maybe most esoteric?) thing would be that Racket is a Scheme. That means it's a Lisp-1 and has a different view on macros, amongst other things you may or may not find trivial. 13:26:51 bpg [~bogdan@unassigned-178.80.183.216.net.blink.ca] has joined #lisp 13:27:00 Implementation-wise, it's a byte-code interpreter whereas SBCL can compile to machine code iirc 13:29:21 looks like Geiser+racket doesn't have an interactive debugger, and the one for Guile doesn't seem as nice at first glance as SLIME's. I also don't see an inspector. 13:30:02 I also wouldn't expect the same performance as SBCL can provide, from Racket, 13:30:27 yeah, lack of threading irrc. 13:30:33 as well 13:31:34 who needs threads when they have call/cc? 13:31:34 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:31:49 well, it does have places, which is kind of why I'm sold on it 13:31:50 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 13:32:04 http://www.cs.utah.edu/plt/publications/dls11-tsffd.pdf 13:32:44 jdz: don't know, depends? not sure that call/cc will solve every problem. 13:33:31 like core utilization 13:33:56 dekuked: well, there you go. If you want to play with Places then Racket is the only game in town. Until someone implements them in 75 lines of CL, of course. 13:35:00 -!- daintihood is now known as CrazEd 13:35:30 -!- CrazEd is now known as Guest44633 13:36:00 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 13:36:15 -!- iLogical is now known as deterministicSou 13:36:30 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 13:37:01 ahinki_ [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 13:37:21 is there a CLTL2 with better linking / complete index / nicer formatting ? 13:37:37 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:37:44 it's sometimes hard to read / difficult to find something 13:38:43 I don't think so 13:38:49 -!- free_thinker [~willijar@134.151.144.246] has left #lisp 13:38:51 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 13:38:54 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:39:08 -!- ahinki_ is now known as ahinki 13:39:41 Houl: better than the printed one? 13:40:34 -!- deterministicSou is now known as ilogical 13:40:52 Skola_ [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 13:40:52 -!- Skola_ [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 13:41:00 I only have the electronic version 13:42:25 latest example: defparameter is not in the index 13:44:23 Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:42 bubo [~bubo@ELE-130.mur.at] has joined #lisp 13:44:45 Houl: what do you need CLTL2 for ? 13:45:04 for reference 13:45:38 and to learn the language 13:45:43 are there better resources? 13:46:18 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has quit [Quit: veni vidi taedui] 13:46:47 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ to learn and http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/Contents.htm for reference 13:48:18 houl, google common lisp the language 2nd edition has probably 8 online .html editions out of first 10 links 13:48:31 minion: clct2? 13:48:33 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-121-223-199-47.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:49:14 Houl: from my bookmark http://www.ida.liu.se/imported/cltl/clm/node200.html 13:49:54 maxm-: where is the "defparameter" index entry in that edition? 13:49:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-032.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:50:11 hmm just checked nope 13:50:13 maxm-: his question was not "how do i use goodle" but he had a specific problem. 13:51:09 macobo [~macobo@233.24.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 13:51:48 someone who has print edition should confirm its there 13:52:21 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:52:46 morning 13:53:35 It says right on top of the index page: This index, which was compiled by Tom Bylander , replaces the original minimal index compiled from the latex sources. We will eventually replace this page with a form-based GLIMPSE index... Since the index was automatically generated from the online manual, some functions may not be included... 13:53:36 13:53:36 13:54:16 maxm-: ok. very well. so now where is the edition that has a complete index? 13:54:37 hi slyrus 13:54:43 fe[nl]ix: thx. according to the lispworks hyperspec (looks indeed better than cltl2), is there a downloadable archive? just can't find one ... 13:54:52 H4ns: I don't know if it exists.. But imho googling "common lisp the language second edition defparamater" gives you the link immediately to the section where its discussed 13:54:52 Radium_ [~carbon@117.203.13.123] has joined #lisp 13:55:05 how do you denote an empty string in something like (nsubstitute #\SPACE #\, in-string), where #\SPACE would be empty string instead of a space 13:55:08 pagerank is actually working as intended 13:55:38 yareally: you use cl:remove 13:55:39 one can automate that with elisp 13:55:53 okay, thanks 13:55:54 sometimes I just like to search all files for occurences of specific words 13:56:13 "defparameter macro, 86" 13:57:47 Houl: ftp://ftp.lispworks.com/pub/software_tools/reference/HyperSpec-7-0.tar.gz 13:58:28 Houl: this version lets you convert it to emacs info, and makes F1 S go to correct entry for the symbol http://users-phys.au.dk/harder/dpans.html 13:58:42 don't click before listening to H4ns tell you why you should not use it 13:59:24 maxm-: why would i? 14:00:25 H4ns: must be someone else, I vaguely remember discussion about how there is a vague rumour its somehow different from "official" hyperspec, thought I was having if with you, if not sorry 14:00:42 fe[nl]ix: ah, very good, thx. 14:01:10 doesn't remove only work on sequences/lists though? i'm just a lisp noob, but that doesn't seem like a character removal function 14:01:58 a string is a sequence 14:02:06 yareally: (remove #\a "aba") 14:02:08 yareally: if in doubt, try it out and read the manual. 14:02:20 i have been or i wouldnt be asking here 14:02:21 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.134.130] has joined #lisp 14:02:57 i just can't find the way to denote #\white-space 14:03:10 yareally: "white space" is not a character. 14:03:25 yareally: strings are vectors of characters in lisp.. not so dissimilar from c++. So you can apply sequence ops to them 14:03:26 yareally: you can use remove-if-not. or cl-ppcre. 14:03:55 -!- ilogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:04:10 maxm-: thanks. will try. but looks like installation instructions exclude Windows 14:04:12 yareally: i meant remove-if, sorry. 14:04:40 just to be specific, im trying to remove 0x20 in ascii hex (a space) from something 14:04:42 ok 14:04:55 yareally: a space is #\space 14:04:55 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:05:03 that's all i needed lol, thanks 14:05:09 "lol" 14:05:47 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:05:56 Houl: doh. You can get a linux box and do it there then transfer resulting .info files.. Don't know why no one put them online yet 14:06:24 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:07:08 Houl: I can actually tar up my /usr/share/local/info, its the only thing in there, you'll have to unzip it and put into Info-directory-list manually 14:08:27 liushui [~liushui@59.50.85.26] has joined #lisp 14:09:22 -!- liushui [~liushui@59.50.85.26] has quit [Client Quit] 14:09:49 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 14:10:09 liushui [~liushui@59.50.85.26] has joined #lisp 14:10:19 -!- Ragnaroek [~Adium@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:12:18 ahinki_ [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 14:12:56 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:13:52 maxm-: can you do that -- yes, please 14:13:54 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:14:03 Houl: An easy way to install the HyperSpec locally is (ql:quickload "clhs"). :) And then you can run (clhs:print-emacs-setup-form) and follow the instructions to hook things up so Slime will do lookups on your local copy for you. 14:14:04 Houl: ok hold on 14:14:07 -!- ahinki_ is now known as ahinki 14:14:47 Hexstream: ql is quicklisp, right? i'm still a newbie on that one, still have to check that one out 14:15:18 Houl: Yes, you should check out Quicklisp right now. It's pretty much indispensable. 14:16:03 http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 14:16:49 Hexstream: I tried to get Slime working on Windows, but failed ... somehow it ran into an endless loop. didn't invest further ... I've heard somebody suggested an Emacs, built complete including Slime ... will check it out later 14:16:50 ahinki_ [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 14:17:49 Oh. Well, Windows is generally not as well-supported as Linux, but it should still be possible to setup Emacs and Slime there, no doubt. 14:18:28 -!- Guest44633 is now known as CrazEd 14:18:29 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:18:39 currently I stick with inferior-lisp ... 14:18:42 -!- ahinki_ is now known as ahinki 14:18:58 -!- CrazEd is now known as Guest43158 14:19:19 -!- tvaalen [~r@67.217.170.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:19:24 tvaalen [~r@67.217.170.35] has joined #lisp 14:19:28 Oh, so you actually got Emacs working, not just Slime. Inferior-lisp is... inferior. Maybe you could paste the error you're getting with Slime and we can try to help? 14:19:36 nixfreak [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:23 Ah wait, actually the easiest way to install Slime correctly is using Quicklisp's quicklisp-slime-helper package. 14:20:23 Houl: hold on I'm doing it a right way with README file etc 14:20:43 So as you can see, all roads lead to Quicklisp. 14:20:55 maxm-: the dpans2texi.el side talks about the need to `supplement your fontset' (with dead link) -- is that an issue? 14:20:59 quicklisp is the roads 14:21:00 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:21:09 BeLucid_ [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:21:28 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:21:31 And all roads lead to all roads, which are all Quicklisp. So I was right. 14:22:40 ok all done 14:22:57 Houl: don't know, it works fine for me with Consolas.ttf as my default fount 14:22:59 font 14:23:04 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:23:14 so I assume any windows ttf font that has unicode math chars should be fine 14:23:23 it uses fancy -> arrow char mostly 14:23:58 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.37.154.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:24:11 -!- nixfreak [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:24:13 now I need some good place to dump it publically, where people do this nowadays? 14:24:38 Don't know what you're talking about but... Github? 14:24:46 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-244-7.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:24:50 nixfreak [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has joined #lisp 14:26:12 g2g. 14:26:13 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 14:28:00 maxm-: the font renderer (at least the ones in Windows, OSX and GNOME) fall back to alternative fonts for missing characters. And the standard math symbols are in pretty much all fonts. 14:28:37 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:28:54 hexstream has left ... 14:28:56 http://static.inky.ws/image/1800/image.jpg 14:29:38 the error says something about "swank-backend" 14:30:09 ... it's about the problems I get with Slime on Windows 14:30:38 Houl: here it is http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34336615/ansicl.zip 14:30:43 -!- gilez [~gdmalet@tux.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:05 restarted emacs with these instructions and stuff deleted from /usr/local/share/info and it still works 14:31:07 (cl:remove #\. a-string) doesn't seem to actually remove the . from a string 14:31:31 i'm probably using it wrong and don't know, so please correct me if so :) 14:31:59 the return value is a new string which is like the old string with all .s removed, which is what you should use 14:32:04 the original string is not modified 14:32:10 yareally: (setf a-string (remove #\. a-string) 14:32:11 ) 14:32:16 *sellout* is slow and buggy 14:32:23 maxm-: thanks! 14:32:32 thanks :) 14:32:42 in Lisp, all forms have values, and you should start off by thinking "can I use the value of this form" rather than "can I use this form to side-effect something" 14:32:50 when you're grown up, you can start thinking about side effects again 14:33:02 reminds me of ruby in that aspect, heh 14:33:16 with the return of something from a method whether you want it to or not 14:33:24 but not exactly the same, but kind of liek that 14:33:46 yareally: similar. if you really don't want to return something in lisp you can indicate it with (values) 14:33:53 ah okay 14:34:35 still trying to get a grip on things not being explict, but it's getting a little better. ive only been using clisp for 24 hours, haha 14:34:36 to my experience ruby lives more on side-effects than lisp does. though ruby is not a bad language to know if you want to learn lisp. 14:34:54 'getting' lisp certainly took me longer than that 14:35:04 ive used python more than ruby and that was mostly where my functional programming with lambdas came from 14:35:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:35:26 im just learning lisp to make myself a better programmer :) 14:35:29 or trying 14:35:38 sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 14:35:54 but it does make me feel like im learning programming all over again haha 14:35:56 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:35:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:36:14 tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.161.74] has joined #lisp 14:37:08 -!- BeLucid_ [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:37:12 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:38:27 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 14:38:50 tsuru```` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-51-234.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:24 what kind of gc does sbcl use? 14:40:27 -!- tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-28-234.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:40:54 dekuked: As far as I understand, ita generational 14:41:17 dekuked: As far as I understand, it's a generational GC, but it's conservative for anything referenced from the stack 14:41:24 optikalmouse [~user@76.9.199.178] has joined #lisp 14:41:43 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 14:41:46 it's not stop the world, right? 14:42:14 dekuked: pretty much all GC's in existance do that to some degree. 14:42:25 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:42:28 although you can make the pauses to short you can't notice them 14:42:46 dekuked: you may find more about it in sbcl's manual http://sbcl.org/manual/index.html 14:42:51 the big difference is what "world" means to the garbage collector 14:43:24 with sbcl, "world" means "the whole lisp" as there is no partitioning of the heap per thread or task 14:43:31 madnificent: how up to date is the sbcl manual? 14:43:59 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:44:15 It looks pretty up to date to me, but I'm just curious 14:44:44 I feel like lisp people read so much source that the docs can go ignored for quite a bit 14:44:53 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:00 dekuked: i don't develop sbcl, but for as much as i read the development seems to be mature enough. so i'd trust the manual to be up-to-date with the latest version of sbcl. 14:46:18 tritchey__ [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:18 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:24 yareally: forget about python lambdas. they are stunted little imps. 14:47:17 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 14:48:00 so, did my first CL script @work today :) 14:48:08 [SLB] [casper@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 14:48:50 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:49:00 BeLucid_ [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:14 I had to write read-file (return file content in a string) and read-lines (return a list of lines read in the file) and timing (return both the runtime took to run a piece of code and its real return value) 14:49:24 what did I miss? 14:49:36 dim: alexandria:read-file-as-string 14:50:04 there's arnesi and alexandria and iolib though 14:50:21 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:28 kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.115] has joined #lisp 14:50:28 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.115] has quit [Changing host] 14:50:28 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:50:41 gilez [~gdmalet@tux.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 14:50:56 maxm-: S works, nice 14:51:22 -!- tritchey__ [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:52:13 the function alexandria:read-file-as-string is not mentioned in http://common-lisp.net/project/alexandria/draft/alexandria.html 14:52:48 dim: alexandria:read-file-into-string is the function 14:54:05 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.238.175] has joined #lisp 14:54:36 Houl: any problems with fonts? 14:54:53 *maxm-* is thinking of maybe making it into a quicklisp system 14:55:09 maxm-: not yet 14:56:02 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:19 Houl: check class-name. Most CLOS entries use these special chars, ie class name has "class-name class -> name" with -> being fancy unicode arrow 14:58:13 maxm-: I can see a small arrow, ok 14:58:33 and fancy backquotes on the bottom around nil etc? 14:58:39 so do I need sbcl to compile sbcl? I thought I remembered reading that it would use ccl/clisp/sbcl whatever is on your system 14:58:47 maxm-: as well 14:58:49 cool 14:59:03 *maxm-* wonders about legality of distributing this 14:59:40 dekuked: clisp should work as well. at least, there was a recent patch to get that working, so i assume it is working now. 14:59:41 maxm: distributing what? 14:59:56 dekuked: clhs as set a zip of emacs info files 15:00:04 madnificent: I have ccl on my system 15:00:41 dekuked: i don't know, but my /guess/ would be that CCL should work. 15:01:01 maxm: dr. corkill was a lifesaver for me there, this really helped me: http://gbbopen.org/hypertutorial/ 15:01:07 but you're right I wish it was easier 15:01:11 dekuked: there are sbcl binaries available as well, in case you didn't notice. 15:01:36 Whitesquall [~notwhites@94.242.144.252] has joined #lisp 15:02:21 madnificent: okay, well I'll look into. I think I screwed up the path or something simple so I'll double check. 'ccl' and 'ccl64' run find from my shell though so I don't think that's really a problem. 15:02:43 also, I'm trying to build it because I want to see how feasible it is for me to start hacking on it 15:02:57 wondering how long it will take to build on an amd c60... 15:04:25 maxm: just remembered, I think gcl has a pretty good tex version that's licensed under the gfdl. but I think I randomly read that a long time ago, no clue how true/useful those files might actually be. 15:05:04 dekuked: it can work on other CLs, but each implementation has its quirks... It's easiest to build with SBCL, but some people do it with CLISP from time to time, ECL or even XCL. 15:05:12 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:19 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0ee9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:29 dekuked: that is what the info files were generated from 15:05:35 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ayfogtuhcghyhjrm] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:05:36 gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-vvxebwuarlrqwxpe] has joined #lisp 15:08:34 -!- yareally [~yarly@codingcreation.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:10 yareally [~yarly@codingcreation.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:52 pkhuong: thanks, I guess I'll make it easy and use sbcl. 15:12:22 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-399581.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:13:54 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:13:57 jcubic [~user@adum46.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:14:00 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.219] has joined #lisp 15:16:30 asvil [~asvil@37.45.215.99] has joined #lisp 15:16:34 does iolib leverage the socket system of the cl implementation it's running with? or does it use it's own socket implementation? 15:17:05 I'm just wondering how hard it would be to implement epoll in sbcl's sockets... 15:17:59 it uses ffi to libc 15:18:14 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:19:07 dekuked: iolib uses the C API. usocket leverages the cl implementation's socket system. 15:19:20 -!- Guest43158 is now known as CrazEd 15:19:35 but iiuc, usocket doesn't give you access to the fd, so you can't use epoll with it. 15:19:49 -!- CrazEd is now known as Guest1533 15:20:43 sykopomp: what does 'fd' mean? 15:20:58 file descriptor. 15:21:16 the actual OS FD associated with the socket. 15:21:19 and what do you think of integrating epoll into sbcl? infeasible? a waste of time? the wrong approach? 15:21:28 Use iolib. 15:21:29 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:21:34 which uses epoll. :) 15:22:26 there's also cl-ev and cl-event2, but you still need to either use iolib or wrap the OS socket API yourself, because they need the actual FDs. 15:23:04 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 15:23:11 dekuked: is there a reason you're avoiding iolib? 15:24:47 -!- bubo [~bubo@ELE-130.mur.at] has left #lisp 15:24:59 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@175.Red-88-11-31.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 15:25:59 nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-244.math.tu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 15:26:02 sykopomp: I barely know cl, so know I don't have an educated reason 15:27:37 dekuked: then just go with iolib. It provides a lispy API, and thanks to grey streams, the iolib sockets will look and feel like SBCL's own sockets in most of the ways that matter. 15:29:07 no* 15:29:45 okay, well I'll consider it. I know a lot of effort has gone into iolib and that it's pretty polished, but I'm just curious. 15:30:03 if nothing else, you could at least see how iolib does it 15:30:03 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.238.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:30:45 dlowe: good point, at this point my opinion is entirely based on things I've read other people say 15:31:19 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-jcndwnlnvermhyje] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:31:25 dekuked: You should ask this on #racket; 15:31:25 j_king: Racket is a byte-code compiler, with a machine code jitter -- it never just "interprets" code, whtever that could mean. 15:31:25 splittist: Regardless of the obvious "joke", you *cannot* implement places in CL -- 75 lines or 75k lines. 15:31:46 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:34:46 thanks for posting that. I really don't know enough to make a decision, so I wouldn't have realized that for a long time. 15:35:09 dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 15:35:14 the other thing I really like about racket is the epoll implementation 15:37:14 dekuked: you could join #racket to talk to people like yourself, who love racket 15:37:28 dekuked: (I've replied there.) 15:38:21 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:38:35 sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 15:40:34 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:41:08 -!- bpg [~bogdan@unassigned-178.80.183.216.net.blink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:41:54 -!- tsuru```` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-51-234.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:41:55 bpg [~bogdan@unassigned-178.80.183.216.net.blink.ca] has joined #lisp 15:43:01 tsuru```` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-48-246.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:56 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:46 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 15:45:52 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:10 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-76.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:48:07 -!- macobo [~macobo@233.24.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:48:29 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-193-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:43 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.134.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:54:12 Can slime-setup only be called once? I try (load (expand-file-name "~/quicklisp/slime-helper.el")) (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-tramp)), but slime-tramp never seems to get loaded. 15:54:13 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.169.2] has joined #lisp 15:54:31 If I add (require 'slime) before my call to slime-setup, it works. 15:59:16 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.169.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:28 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.169.2] has joined #lisp 16:00:59 Hrmm  nope. Even if I remove the call to slime-setup in slime-helper.el, I still need to (require 'slime) first  16:04:19 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.169.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:04:36 eli: sure, you can't implement places in CL the same way you can't open a socket in scheme. 16:04:43 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:48 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@90.150.174.116] has joined #lisp 16:05:27 sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 16:05:46 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m83-185-142-102.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 16:06:19 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 16:06:40 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.148.106] has joined #lisp 16:06:54 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:22 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.64.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:09:59 pkhuong: No, it runs much deeper than that. You can't implement places at the language level, it must be done at the core VM level. This is unlike `futures' (the other OS-level thread tool) which maybe could be done in the language (though I doubt that too). 16:10:51 We also have threads (the green kind), and even that is something that shows that "75 lines of CL code" is the kind of arrogant nonsense that I expect from rubyists. 16:10:58 (And BTW, continuations have been shown over and over to be a bad choice for implementing threads, so even with first-class continuations you don't get any substantial discounts.) 16:11:53 eli: why do you need so many words? splittist made a joke, nothing more. and he endorsed racket, too. 16:11:58 -!- machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:12:07 someone does sound a bit defensive 16:12:14 no-one mentioned continuations at all 16:12:20 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-399581.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:12:25 Kryztof: someone did, but hey. 16:12:28 but what's this distinction between the "core VM" and the "language level" 16:12:49 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-399581.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:08 eli: that fine distinction between VM and language may be somewhat true, but in practice it's the same thing 16:13:11 apologies: bad search term 16:14:30 H4ns: I originally replied to just two points, and specifically left out any subjective pointing; the "75 lines" is just bothering me, since it's the same kind of offensive brogrammerisms that is getting way too popular these days. 16:14:36 I'll be happy to drop it. 16:15:25 eli: that's what scheme is for. seriousness, hygiene, no joking and all thiat :) 16:16:16 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.160] has joined #lisp 16:16:21 machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:41 eli: many people here know each other personally and can infer tone where none is immediately obvious. I don't know how attentively you lurk here, but I think in this case there's no danger in giving splittist the benefit of any doubt you have 16:16:44 (fe[nl]ix: You'll need to have a *lot* exposed to be able to do this kind of thing -- I've never seena anything that would get close to making something like places implemented in the language possible. Maybe something like 3lisp, made into a practical implementation.) 16:17:35 H4ns: Scheme is not my department... 16:18:20 3lisp... or fork(2) 16:18:44 sellout1 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:02 :D 16:19:10 fork() most definitely doesn't cut it. 16:19:23 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-399581.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:20:08 -!- Guest1533 is now known as CrazEd 16:20:11 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:20:13 would somebody tell me where this discussion about places originates from? 16:20:37 -!- CrazEd is now known as Guest16556 16:20:59 flip214: My fault, feel free to ignore. 16:21:53 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 16:23:18 The miracle of /last just made all of this make sense. 16:24:26 it is kind of interesting that the paper, which talks about how adding os-level threads to Python, Ruby and Racket is prohibitively difficult, doesn't mention any of the CL implementations which support os-level threads 16:26:06 what paper ? 16:26:21 -!- liushui [~liushui@59.50.85.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:38 ... aaand what do we mean by places? 16:26:55 -!- dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:26:59 I also think that while there may be benefits of places over fork(2), the Related Work section doesn't make them abundantly clear to my admittedly brief reading. 16:27:01 http://www.cs.utah.edu/plt/publications/dls11-tsffd.pdf 16:27:05 thanks 16:27:06 -!- splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:27:13 Kryztof: Um, things like dynamic compilation and GC are what makes it difficult, I don't think that CL implementations that have it had any discounts.... (BTW, "prohibitively" is obviously wrong...) 16:27:25 -!- asynchrony [~user@adsl-98-65-190-50.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:27:36 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has joined #lisp 16:27:44 yeah, well, prohibitively is what I read in the paper 16:28:08 I'd be among the first to admit it is difficult :-) 16:28:25 ThereYouGo. 16:28:37 Kryztof: each implementation has its own share of issues... but they also tend to work. 16:28:49 still odd that there's no mention in Related Work 16:29:16 unless of course the Racket community are totally unaware of everything that's gone on in CL in the last 15 years or so. 16:29:34 pkhuong: sure, I'd even accept that no CL implementation has proved their thread implementation correct ;-) 16:31:49 if you're going to say "we went for places because it's too hard to do threads in Racket, Python and Ruby", it ought to be worth exploring why it wasn't too hard to do it in CL 16:32:17 maybe that's another paper. ("CL users actively demanded thread support from their vendors"?) 16:32:40 -!- tsuru```` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-48-246.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:33:32 Kryztof: does SBCL do The Right Thing (FSVO TRT) if you recompile a function while it's running in another thread? 16:33:56 'cause you know how those Scheme guys are about The Right Thing 16:34:27 gigamonkey: shh, remember, not Scheme any more ;-) 16:34:28 gigamonkey: the replacement is atomic. 16:34:56 gigamonkey: I think it works out by atomically replacing the symbol's reference to the function, so the original run finishes on original code, but new invocation calls new code 16:34:57 gigamonkey: where SBCL definitely doesn't do TRT is messing with class hierarchies 16:35:26 if you change the class hierarchy while generic functions specialized on related classes are in the process of being called, I would expect Bad Things 16:35:28 Kryztof: I suspect that they know about whatever was done publicly in in CL(s), but no idea about the paper writing or reviews. 16:36:18 eli: hmmm, all the authors on that paper have .edu email addresses. That'd be kind of odd. 16:36:49 gigamonkey: What would be "That"? 16:37:05 The one Kryztof just linked to. 16:37:16 gigamonkey: also obvious things like if you recompile e.g. (defclass foo () ((slot :accessor slot))), the MOP specifies that REMOVE-METHOD and then ADD-METHOD are called on SLOT, so there's a window when there's no method on the generic function SLOT 16:37:23 hefner ran into that a couple of weeks ago 16:38:12 -!- jcubic [~user@adum46.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #lisp 16:38:14 gigamonkey: Kryztof linked the places paper, so you're saying that the paper is odd? 16:38:50 eli: no, the possibility they don't know about writing papers ;) 16:38:51 No, I'm saying it'd be odd if those authors didn't understand about writing papers and reviews insofar as they're all academics. 16:39:13 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:20 gigamonkey: the first two authors look like they're grad students, and the three others advisors. DLS is much more practice-oriented than a lot of other venues, so the amount of academic (versus hacking) hand-holding they received may be less than what you'd expect. 16:39:35 fair enough. 16:39:40 -!- kilon is now known as kilon_awya 16:41:21 To clarify what I said: I don't know what *is* available as far as public descriptions of CL implementations go, wrt writing they're obviously familiar with it. 16:41:47 Still, it's strange for me to read that fork(2) forces programs to communicate through pipes. 16:42:28 pkhuong: they can use files, mutexes, tcp/unix/other sockets, mmap()ed data too 16:43:31 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 16:44:01 It's good and interesting work, it's just the overview of related work that seems a bit lacking in older stuff. Much like when I write about my PhD topic, come to think of it :\ 16:44:26 there's an obvious solution to that 16:44:30 Perhaps that was supposed to be talking about whatever you get from a portable fork(). 16:44:59 But for such specific questions you can mail the list (if you don't want to send private emails). 16:45:00 Kryztof: read more? (: 16:45:46 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:47:29 m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.82] has joined #lisp 16:47:58 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 16:48:42 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-399581.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:48:55 asynchrony [~user@adsl-98-65-190-50.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:46 -!- asynchrony [~user@adsl-98-65-190-50.dab.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 16:49:55 -!- kilon_awya [~kilon@athedsl-399581.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:50:22 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:29 Skola_ [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 16:50:29 -!- Skola_ [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 16:50:59 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:51:05 sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 16:51:07 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384251.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:52:41 kilon_awya [~kilon@athedsl-384251.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:53:04 -!- trebor_dki [~user@130.83.156.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:53:33 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:57:50 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:57:55 eli: speaking of class hierarchies, how does swindle work wrt concurrency in mop operations? 17:00:04 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:03:45 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:04:27 sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 17:05:16 -!- dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:05:34 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:05:47 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 17:06:24 kanru`` [~user@61-228-144-239.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:49 jet_00kyb [~jet_00kyb@c-75-72-244-165.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-172.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:08:56 copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has joined #lisp 17:09:37 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:11:10 ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:22 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:13:34 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.12] has joined #lisp 17:14:09 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-040.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:15:33 jankeromnes [~jankeromn@acces2131.res.insa-lyon.fr] has joined #lisp 17:16:33 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has left #lisp 17:17:12 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 17:17:38 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 17:17:49 fms [~fms@38.111.144.18] has joined #lisp 17:18:06 -!- fms is now known as ebobby 17:18:21 erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:20 -!- SrPx [b1289584@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.40.149.132] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:19:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:19:41 -!- jankeromnes [~jankeromn@acces2131.res.insa-lyon.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 17:19:44 is there a way to return/return-from the current defun scope without repeating the function name? 17:20:13 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:20:44 -!- Guest16556 is now known as CrazEd 17:21:03 -!- zbigniew [~zb@ipv6.3e8.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:21:03 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.169.2] has joined #lisp 17:21:05 erikc: no. you can wrap your function body in (block nil ...) to make just return work, or you can refactor your function so you don't need to return from the middle. 17:21:14 -!- CrazEd is now known as Guest78493 17:21:16 k 17:21:31 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:22:43 -!- machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:23:13 thekilon [~kilon@athedsl-398062.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:23:29 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384251.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:23:35 Fare: As good or as bad as you'd expect from a naive implementation... 17:23:46 -!- kilon_awya [~kilon@athedsl-384251.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:24:31 Fare: BTW, is the MIT connection reliable enough for future meetings? 17:25:45 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.169.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:26:20 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.169.2] has joined #lisp 17:29:05 ebobby_ [~fms@38.111.144.18] has joined #lisp 17:29:09 eli: I suppose so, for now. 17:29:11 machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:42 eli: though I'm still looking for a place that would allow real-time video-conference with Montreal and/or other lisper venues in the same timezone 17:29:59 I may or may not be able to get that reliably from MIT. 17:30:33 Fare: So the thing is that NEU is becoming difficult to do these things, for all the wrong reasons... 17:31:00 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 17:31:00 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.169.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:31:13 wrong reasons? 17:31:25 copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has joined #lisp 17:31:39 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.169.2] has joined #lisp 17:31:47 gc being independent in each place sounds interesting ...can sbcl do somethiing similar peer-thread? 17:31:55 -!- ebobby [~fms@38.111.144.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:32:12 flip214: no. 17:32:34 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-398062.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:32:44 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has left #lisp 17:32:50 flip214, that's contrary to the sbcl threading model. But you could use fork and shared memory 17:33:24 fare: but then the shared memory would have to be allocated/freed/handled by me again ... 17:33:32 I like GC 17:33:42 zbigniew [~zb@ipv6.3e8.org] has joined #lisp 17:34:19 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.169.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:22 copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has joined #lisp 17:35:02 flip214: that would be for message-passing. Or you could use read/write over a pipe/socket 17:35:18 \ 17:35:34 haaving to serialize/unserrialize any data again ... 17:37:22 threading and streaming channels as in chanl? 17:37:36 https://github.com/sykopomp/chanl 17:38:04 you have https://github.com/sykopomp/cl-speedy-queue also 17:38:26 urandom__ [~user@ip-92-50-99-117.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 17:39:31 I've aalready used sb mailboxes 17:40:31 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:41:48 -!- ebobby_ is now known as ebobby 17:41:48 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 17:42:38 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44:40 zeromq is also very good for message passing 17:46:46 flip: that's easily abstracted away 17:47:15 *Fare* is surprised noone seems to be using elias omega encoding for data. 17:47:36 is there an efficient API for reading bignums in SBCL? 17:48:13 as opposed to +/or/dpb which seems to be quadratic in integer-length 17:48:37 writing it then reading it in base 16? (yuck) 17:49:57 (or does sbcl optimize bignum operations when the variables are linear?) 17:50:51 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@175.Red-88-11-31.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:09 Fare: no optimisation on single-use bignum values. Look in sb-bignum. 17:53:05 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:38 sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 17:53:45 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:55:58 -!- ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:56:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:56:40 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:58:47 ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:45 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:03:20 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-157-201.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:05:52 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Quit: Out of this 3D] 18:06:42 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has joined #lisp 18:06:54 dardoria [~boiantz@92-247-214-154.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 18:10:18 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:24 boy. the mop is clunky. in a fun way. every time i use it i find the boilerplate i have to write really annoying, but then working with the boilerplate in place is loads of fun. 18:10:40 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 18:11:15 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 18:11:46 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-107-108.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 18:12:39 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:13:14 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:14:10 sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 18:14:10 well, it's kind of a backdoor stripped out of all the nieties you have normally.. 18:14:59 yeah. and it requires quite some understanding to know what you actually need in a metaclass implementation. 18:15:11 ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:16:31 but relatively often, i find myself wanting to implement a metaclass for a flat hierarchy (i.e. no subclasses), and then the mop is really a bit clunky to begin with. 18:17:09 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-222-184.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:18:38 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 18:19:26 -!- ehu` is now known as ehu 18:20:27 but then, it is really nice to see how all that code which used to live in the macroexpansion nicely goes into mop methods. there is this "done right" feeling about it that i really like. 18:21:16 hey, I was just looking through the sbcl code, where does it bind to a posix c call for creating a socket? 18:21:29 I think that's the right way of phrasing it 18:21:40 sb-bsd-sockets? 18:23:13 ecl doesn't have threads ? 18:23:49 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 18:23:59 what's the point of contrib/sb-bsd-sockets/foo.c? it looks like it's designed for testing compiler features and writing them down to a file 18:24:05 or bordeaux-threads don't know about threads in ecl ? 18:24:38 it can be compiled with or without thread support 18:24:51 hm 18:24:54 oh, really 18:25:08 sorry for bothering 18:25:44 also if :threads doesn't feature in *features* then it probably wasn't built with support for threading 18:26:25 -!- prip [~foo@host56-134-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:26:38 i had firstly to look at it's useflags 18:26:58 dekuked: that's so you have correct numerical constants to pass to C functions or syscalls 18:27:42 p_l where would I find networking syscalls? 18:27:45 Fare: Would it be improperly late to increment your dinner counter for Thursday? 18:28:35 Fare: oh thank you again for setting that up. I'm quite sure I emailed you/the list, but I'll double check. 18:28:49 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD6187B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:29:03 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@90.150.174.116] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:29:20 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@90.150.174.116] has joined #lisp 18:29:23 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:29:48 If you are using APPEND, and occasionally one of the arguments is the empty list. Is there a pattern to detect that and keep the outer list? Basically, to make it act like PUSH? 18:31:02 SurlyFrog: "keep the outer list"? 18:31:30 SurlyFrog: (append nil '(1) nil) => '(1) 18:31:38 Yeah, as in, a function (add-to-index index foo bar) that initially gets called with index as (). 18:31:58 If index isn't the empty list, I can return (append index (do-something foo bar)) 18:32:27 joooooo [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 18:32:28 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:29 but if index is empty, then I'm missing one level of my nested lists that way. 18:32:59 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 18:33:29 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@phlegethon.blisses.org] has joined #lisp 18:33:29 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@phlegethon.blisses.org] has quit [Changing host] 18:33:29 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has joined #lisp 18:33:40 So, I'm looking to always get ( (foo bar) ). But if index starts as the empty list (), then calling my function that uses append returns (foo bar). 18:33:53 SurlyFrog: no. you need to look more closely. 18:34:20 SurlyFrog: or you need to express yourself more clearly. append never "removes nesting" or the like. 18:34:55 SurlyFrog: if you want to always prepend somethig to the list returned from your do-something function, use cons 18:35:07 Sure 18:35:40 SurlyFrog: (cons nil (do-something)) => '(nil foo bar) ; assuming do-something returned '(foo bar) 18:36:03 yeah, what I'm really trying to do is get the behavior of push without the push ... 18:36:23 as in (push (do-something foo bar) ()) > ( (foo bar)) 18:36:53 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@175.Red-88-11-31.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 18:37:00 and how does append not do it? 18:37:24 I'll do a paste. 18:39:47 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:40:34 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:40:34 -!- sellout1 is now known as sellout 18:40:45 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@phlegethon.blisses.org] has joined #lisp 18:40:45 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@phlegethon.blisses.org] has quit [Changing host] 18:40:45 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has joined #lisp 18:41:05 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:41 sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 18:43:05 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has quit [Client Quit] 18:43:10 http://paste.lisp.org/+2RJL 18:43:39 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has joined #lisp 18:43:41 -!- machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: : http://www.beta.facefox.com/index.php?do=/user/register/] 18:45:02 so where does sbcl make networking syscalls? I really don't know what I'm looking for 18:45:18 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-76.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:47:05 SurlyFrog: you're looking for (append index (list (do-something foo bar)) 18:48:06 dekuked: sb-grovel generates definitions via constants.lisp in sb-bsd-sockets (look in the contrib directory). M-. is always helpful to explore how a function is defined (e.g. you could start by reading the manual, and M-. to find the source for classes or functions you see there). 18:48:25 howeyc: I'll try. 18:48:31 prip [~foo@host56-134-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:48:43 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 18:49:02 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:49:14 pkhuong: thank you, I'll start looking there 18:49:32 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:52:05 howeyc: thanks. I appreciate it. That's working. 18:52:14 -!- dardoria [~boiantz@92-247-214-154.spectrumnet.bg] has left #lisp 18:56:08 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 18:57:14 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:58:15 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449538.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:59:40 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:00:17 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-012-013.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:22 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129057010.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:00:34 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 19:05:15 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.218.88] has joined #lisp 19:06:15 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-012-013.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:06:20 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-012-013.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:42 -!- Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:07:51 -!- thekilon [~kilon@athedsl-398062.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:54 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:09:57 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 19:10:12 Greetings lispers 19:11:37 lduros [~lduros@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:12:25 Hello ThomasH 19:13:51 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:14:34 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:15:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:15:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:21:11 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:44 sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 19:27:28 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27:55 sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 19:28:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-040.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:29:46 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:33:46 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:37:43 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:04 is 'class' a reserved word in CL? 19:38:42 I don't believe there are any reserved words in CL 19:39:02 robot-beethoven: Enter this into the REPL -> (describe 'class) 19:39:34 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:39:54 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-046.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:40:03 I'm pretty sure there are no reserved words in CL. There is reader syntax, but you can bypass/quote it out... ;D 19:40:09 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-012-013.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:40:24 robot-beethoven: it's « reserved » in the CL package but you don't have to use it if you don't want to. 19:41:50 I'm trying to defun a 'class' function in my own package, but the compiler's telling that I'm violating a lock on package common-lisp 19:42:36 robot-beethoven: it is not that the "word" is "reserved", it is that the compiler prevents you from redefining meaning attached to the cl:class symbol 19:42:41 robot-beethoven: because you're defining it in a package that has CL imported 19:43:04 robot-beethoven: if you do not need the cl:class symbol, you can define a symbol named "CLASS" in your own package and define a function with that name. 19:43:10 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:43:21 sorry, I didn't mean to disgust with that 'reserved' concept from other silly languages 19:43:22 robot-beethoven: you'll have to :shadow cl:class in your package definition. 19:43:28 (defpackage :my) (in-package :my) (cl:defun class () ...) 19:43:36 ynniv [~ynniv@204.9.220.45] has joined #lisp 19:43:46 robot-beethoven: no disgust happened 19:43:47 sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 19:43:48 (shadow 'cl:class). 19:44:22 p_l: I think you need (defpackage :my (:use)) 19:44:42 ThomasH: hmmm.. might be 19:45:05 haven't ever defined a package without any :use clause (somehow) so I don't remember it off hand 19:45:13 robot-beethoven: but let me tell you a secret: 19:45:25 p_l: implementation defined (: 19:45:33 robot-beethoven: even though the symbols in the common-lisp package are not "reserved", we treat them like that. 19:45:44 -!- joooooo [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:59 To reduce confusion, if that is possible. 19:46:43 H4ns: it seems like a good idea, maintain the common symbols' common meanings. 19:46:44 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 19:46:55 If you do shadow a symbol, the original can still be accessed with the package prefix (e.g. in this case cl:class would still work), right? 19:47:05 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 19:47:54 OT gripe. Disk 4 in my stupid little NAS box goes bad about once a year. I think it is a thermal issue. 19:48:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-046.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:48:56 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 19:49:10 docAvid: right. 19:49:10 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:49:11 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49:28 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 19:50:31 -!- neena [neena@unaffiliated/neenaoffline] has left #lisp 19:50:32 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-049.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:51:52 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has joined #lisp 19:53:08 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-190-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:43 add^_ [~add^_^@m83-185-142-102.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:00:19 kilon_awya [~kilon@athedsl-398062.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 20:01:10 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec20ff0-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:36 TimKack [~user@c-2ec20ff0-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 20:01:45 -!- joachifm [~user@2001:1ad8:c:a4b:2e27:d7ff:fea9:27b6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:55 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-190-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:02:15 -!- kilon_awya [~kilon@athedsl-398062.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:17 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 20:03:06 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:18 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-92-50-99-117.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-049.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:04:08 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:04:15 sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 20:05:41 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:08:58 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-250-34.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:24 -!- tsuru is now known as Guest59091 20:09:56 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:10:22 -!- Guest59091 is now known as tsuru` 20:10:25 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-045.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:13:23 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:15:17 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-045.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:16:51 -!- oiig_ [oiig_@112.161.134.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:17:08 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:40 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:18:58 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.218.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:20:46 Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:59 is there a library for doing bit-diddling with streams? 20:22:32 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 20:22:33 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:22:37 X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 20:23:05 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest74496 20:24:15 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:24:29 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:37 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:26:42 -!- Guest74496 [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:50 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:58 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:28:28 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:35 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:30:27 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:34 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:31:38 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:46 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:31:46 DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-14-2.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:35 machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:03 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-022.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:35:12 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:16 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:35:35 jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:17 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:32 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-022.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:40:29 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 20:41:26 ur5us [~ur5us@17.196.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 20:42:02 *maxm-* is starting to like his enchanced highlighting 20:42:39 -!- nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-244.math.tu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:42:45 always wanted to visually separate (with-slots) list of slots and instance, http://i.imgur.com/kfgFD.png 20:42:56 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec20ff0-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:11 actually should use background change rather then bold 20:43:55 sacho_ [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 20:44:05 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:14 X-Scale` [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 20:45:10 zenbalrog [~johnnyc@adsl-98-70-116-224.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:35 Fare: odd-streams by EdiWeitz 20:46:37 fe[nl]ix: I think I'll take splittist's bet and see how many LoC it takes to sanely wrap unix domain sockets and shared mmap in CL ;) 20:47:28 multi-platform or just one? 20:47:43 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:47:59 "I'll show them" is the biggest driver of innovation ever :-) 20:48:02 antifuchs: linux/sbcl! 20:48:12 ok then! 20:48:30 pkhuong: I must be missing something. what bet ? 20:48:40 *maxm-* remember massive stream writing speed improvements after some python guy posted on c.l.l 20:49:11 maxm-: it's actually a useful pattern from time to time... especially given SBCL's awesomely single-threaded GC. 20:49:20 -!- X-Scale` [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:58 fe[nl]ix: earlier this morning, he joked that PLT's Places could be implemented in 75 LOC 20:50:09 -!- [SLB] [casper@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:50:10 ah 20:50:57 make sure they're very long lines 20:51:05 I have most of that in iolib, but it's definitely more than 75 LOC 20:51:39 is this for parallelism thing? 20:51:42 -!- lduros [~lduros@fsf/member/lduros] has left #lisp 20:52:35 hey antifuchs! How's life! (also: boinknomarks) 20:52:47 hey Kryztof! 20:53:06 life's great - I'm currently reclining on a chaise longue in hawaii (: 20:53:17 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@mobile-166-147-096-150.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:26 not entirely idle though, running tests (-: 20:53:32 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:53:56 deech [~user@adsl-99-126-111-162.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:12 how's life in the startup world for you? (: 20:54:48 francogrex [~user@109.130.82.96] has joined #lisp 20:55:09 hmm, what a coincidence, got email from lparallel guy today, he pretty much closed in on CILK speed with his light-weight features work 20:55:57 in fib benchmark 20:56:10 crazy 20:57:56 fe[nl]ix, thanks a lot! 20:59:00 any help with this please, I don't know if it's clear: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129012 20:59:48 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:00:50 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.76] has joined #lisp 21:01:08 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-011.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:01:49 -!- dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:01:56 I hope to cumulate the data into the hash table all in one step 21:02:23 Kryztof: haha, that just about sums it up (: 21:02:53 is odd-stream little-endian or big-endian? There doesn't seem to be a good way to bitblt a lot of data from the buffer :-/ 21:03:03 so close, yet so far. 21:03:20 CampinSam [~Sam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:23 I guess I'll implement my own layer, then. Sigh. 21:04:28 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-222-184.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:04:31 Fare: Curious, did you get my email? 21:04:34 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.252.44] has joined #lisp 21:04:45 ChibaPet, I did. Thanks! 21:04:56 I'll reserve a spot for you at the dinner. Sorry for no ACK. 21:05:03 I'm wondering how many people are saying they'll attend. I semi-organized a group there for LibrePlanet and it was quite overfull. 21:05:08 Maybe I should send an ACK to everyone tomorrow. 21:05:13 ~10 21:05:18 Oh, that's not bad. 21:05:24 that's how many replied 21:05:47 I expected around 8 for LibrePlanet, based on email, and around 30 showed up. 21:05:57 ouch 21:06:04 I should ask for confirmation tonight. 21:06:13 Why am I not on your mailinglist? 21:06:18 which mailing-list is that? 21:06:27 X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 21:06:42 not that I ever published anything to PLaneT 21:06:42 Are you asking about the LibrePlanet list? 21:06:45 yes 21:06:53 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest94544 21:07:06 looking - not mine 21:08:03 https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/am-meeting 21:08:48 It's almost zero-activity after the conference. 21:09:02 Well, not almost. 21:09:10 Anyway, departing for the evening. o/ 21:09:57 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-235-191.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:35 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 21:10:46 Fare: about elias omega, I would say it's rare that (integer-length n) is a bignum. 21:12:18 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:29 sacho_ [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 21:15:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-011.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:16:08 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@204.9.220.45] has quit [Quit: ynniv] 21:18:34 jake [~jake@74.213.226.253] has joined #lisp 21:19:00 -!- jake is now known as Guest7749 21:19:24 -!- Guest7749 is now known as jake_________ 21:24:13 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-398062.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:57 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-398062.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 21:26:59 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-398062.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:46 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:32:00 francogrex: Did anyone ever comment on your paste? I took a quick look. Your loop only iterates over *dat* not *dates*. 21:32:11 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-019.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:33:17 I think you want to loop on dates and when on (memberp i *dates*) 21:34:50 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@175.Red-88-11-31.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:24 -!- erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: erikc] 21:35:29 Err... (memberp i dat) 21:36:50 -!- jake_________ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:38:00 ynniv [~ynniv@c-76-23-252-81.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:29 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@195.198.40.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:43:32 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-011.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:45:40 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-011.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:47:24 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m83-185-142-102.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:49:30 SteveGraham [~Steve@c-71-195-232-180.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:40 patrickwonders: ok, it's not memberp it's member you meant I think 21:49:55 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 21:50:23 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:50:27 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:50:58 francogrex: Yep, sorry. 21:53:13 -!- Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:53:15 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@mobile-166-147-096-150.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 21:57:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:57:27 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:08 sacho_ [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 21:58:17 http://paste.lisp.org/display/129012#1 it works it seems though not sure it's completely correct 22:00:10 anyone hacking clojure and CL on the same system? 22:01:01 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@175.Red-88-11-31.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:02:34 -!- Guest94544 is now known as X-Scale 22:02:55 nif [~nI@gateway/tor-sasl/nif] has joined #lisp 22:03:05 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:03:30 you mean with ABCL loaded in the same JVM? 22:03:43 (well, either way I don't, gn) 22:04:37 nop - i just wanted to setup slime properly so that it can M-x slime to sbcl and M-x clojure-jack-in to clojure 22:04:52 found the solution here: https://github.com/technomancy/swank-clojure/issues/66 22:07:08 wyan: I'm surprised that SLIME+clojure is superior to whatever is available in Eclipse or Netbeans. 22:07:30 but I can't stand Eclipse :) 22:07:50 and last time I tried Netbeans the clojure plugin needed an old version 22:08:13 AFAIK emacs is the de facto IDE in the clojure world as well 22:08:15 :) 22:08:20 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.82.96] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:08:38 wyan: That's interesting, I wouldn't have expected that. 22:09:47 -!- SteveGraham [~Steve@c-71-195-232-180.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:10:12 lots of clojurians are lispers as well 22:11:17 wyan: not more java, than lisp guys? 22:11:45 lots of java people, but lots of lispers as well 22:11:54 and rubyists / dynamic languages guys 22:12:08 that's what i've seen in the london dojo the few times i've been there 22:12:28 i was surprised to find many web developers 22:12:46 -!- asvil [~asvil@37.45.215.99] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:14:05 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082BC5A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:36 -!- nif [~nI@gateway/tor-sasl/nif] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:01 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:15:49 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0ee9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:15:58 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082AA42.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:16:51 nif [~nI@gateway/tor-sasl/nif] has joined #lisp 22:17:12 nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has joined #lisp 22:17:46 -!- nif [~nI@gateway/tor-sasl/nif] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:56 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.161.74] has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 22:19:45 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-197-59.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:19:55 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-193-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 22:20:03 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-193-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:08 how portable is 22:20:47 (format nil "~a" (make-pathname :directory nil :device nil :host nil :defaults (parse-namestring "/one/two/lala.blah"))) 22:20:56 to get just name.lisp out of arbitrary pathname? 22:21:06 ThomasH: either you don't appreciate how nice SLIME is or you don't appreciate how nasty monolithic IDEs are. 22:21:23 or any easier ways to do it? 22:21:45 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-7.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:21:52 maxm-: (format nil "~A.~A" (pathname-name pathname) (pathname-type pathname))? 22:22:03 (subseq pathname (find #\/ pathname :from-end t))? 22:22:11 less portable than H4ns', ofc 22:22:13 Ralith: ieh 22:22:39 also not sure that works if pathname is a pathname object 22:22:47 Ralith: no. 22:22:55 Ralith: Those aren't the only possibilities, try harder. 22:23:09 H4ns: fails for filename with no extension 22:23:14 ThomasH: perhaps you are a communist spy, sent to sow dissent in our ranks. 22:23:23 maxm-: (format nil "~A~@[.~A~]" (pathname-name pathname) (pathname-type pathname))? 22:23:29 :) 22:23:50 what about system where dot is not a separator? 22:23:59 maxm-: wat? 22:24:13 Ralith: That was trying too hard. 22:24:13 *maxm-* remembers someone arguing about vms with him, will be ironic it it was h4ns 22:24:16 maxm-: your way sounds proper if you want to cater for that. 22:24:35 maxm-: vms has dot as type separator. 22:24:37 :) 22:24:50 *maxm-* is making a log4cl example, so I would rather do it in a way that is the "most" proper 22:25:08 maxm-: there is a fine line between "proper" and "convoluted" here. 22:25:53 -!- optikalmouse [~user@76.9.199.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:00 maxm-: also, in an example unrelated to pathnames, you'll probably want to keep things simple enough 22:26:20 maxm-: but if you don't want to, enough-namestring is what you _really_ want. 22:27:37 well its example related to pathnames, the one I use myself, as a template for project logging setup, that logs as: ...headers... (file.lisp) stuff, with filename and function fontified nicely in slime 22:27:40 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:27:53 really easier to look at for large amount of debug 22:28:05 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:29:28 maxm-: (enough-namestring pathname (make-pathname :name nil :type nil :version nil :defaults pathname)) 22:29:40 maxm-: you're looking for cl:file-namestring 22:29:51 this is for picking up the filename part from *compile-file-truename*, so it will pickup based on wrong directory if system dir is not current one when system is compiled 22:30:03 uh. 22:30:06 fe[nl]ix: thanks! 22:30:14 fe[nl]ix: doh! 22:30:52 indeed 22:31:18 well at least H4ns did not remember it too :-) 22:31:29 maxm-: i'm not great at the spec. 22:33:02 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:33:54 maxm-: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtPgr94VYA4 22:34:15 lol 22:35:15 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.173] has joined #lisp 22:35:34 made me wanna start rewatching sg1.. wondering if netflix has it 22:38:38 netflix is not available here. Let's pirate it. 22:39:02 Nah! Let's just ignore the media industry. Instead, go watch Star Wrek. 22:39:22 in the Pirkining. http://www.starwreck.com/ 22:40:21 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:44:24 jake [~jake@74.213.226.253] has joined #lisp 22:44:50 -!- jake is now known as Guest81621 22:46:40 -!- Guest81621 is now known as jake__ 22:50:59 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:52:13 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 22:54:26 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:54:37 tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.161.74] has joined #lisp 22:55:29 pjb: but I've seen it already :) 22:59:49 DataLinkDroid [~David@120.152.53.233] has joined #lisp 23:00:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:54 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.90.30] has joined #lisp 23:02:03 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483BBD5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:03:10 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:18b1:9440:136:46d3] has joined #lisp 23:05:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:06:37 kilon_awya [~kilon@athedsl-321401.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 23:08:43 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD6187B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:45 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:09:55 -!- nixfreak [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:13:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:15:03 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.131.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 23:16:41 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has left #lisp 23:17:42 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-18-167.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:07 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 23:20:58 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-250-34.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:21:10 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@90.150.174.116] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 23:21:59 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 23:23:44 -!- jake__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:25:23 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:25:46 -!- Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:26:10 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:26:51 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-3-20.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:00 sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 23:29:57 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:33 does anyone use lambda function designators in CL? ( see http://paste.lisp.org/+2RJS ) 23:36:28 DataLinkDroid: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/b245645ba195dac2/baa795991a22e519 23:36:46 -!- kilon_awya [~kilon@athedsl-321401.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:21 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-019.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:39:29 hi, do lisp people think the "light table" functionality being hyped on HN (looks like macroexpansion in a side buffer) might be useful as an emacs module? i'm 95% sure that i could mimic it with slime and a bit of elisp. i've also been working on elisp for interactive tweaking like in the bret victor video. i think it would be awesome to post lighttable.el relatively quickly and leave people wondering why the js version cost $200k 23:39:31 thanks Bike. i'll have a look when i get the chance :-) 23:40:02 it is not immediately clear what i would do with those call tree expansions, especially nontrivial ones, but i can see it would be useful in some cases 23:40:30 dto: Somebody asked about a Lisp version just yesterday. 23:41:06 bchi [~bji@cpe-174-096-192-072.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:41:09 Bike: in here? it might have been me :) 23:41:21 ive been working on this for about a day. 23:41:55 and i would be happy to donate the elisp to FSF as with a couple of my other snippets 23:42:03 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:56 let's see, it was flip214. 23:44:53 eliyak [~eliyak@c-24-13-247-120.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:53 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@c-24-13-247-120.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:44:53 eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has joined #lisp 23:46:18 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-uxaxpzcgxruxjmsg] has joined #lisp 23:47:53 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-17-238.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:27 dto: I've slowly started to write a too-early package to do something like that. Let's compete! :-) 23:48:30 haha 23:48:48 i think it may come down to who has spent more time futzing with text propertiies and overlays 23:48:52 dto: but seriously, C-x C-e and slime M-. provides 95% of light-table. All the rest is just chrome. 23:49:23 dto: I don't even envision that. Just markers in the origina buffer, and creating a lot of windows and buffers to edit parts of the code. 23:49:27 but it does not flow! through your code! it does not have the awesomeness, and the round corners! 23:49:28 its true pjb, and that mostly applies to the megademo it seems based on 23:49:41 Exactly. 23:49:54 ha, you think i can't do round corners and multiple embedded code pieces in a buffer? 23:49:54 H4ns: right. 23:50:11 But then, I don't want to replace the windowing system of emacs. Perhaps if it was written in CL instead of C 23:50:13 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-18-167.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:50:23 pjb: valid point 23:50:44 pjb: it could be that a little stack of windows without modelines could suffice 23:50:53 Yes. 23:51:14 i forget, am i cleared to use (require 'cl) now? did that alias change ever happen 23:51:34 I don't care, I always use t. 23:51:35 it 23:52:09 leave window management to the WM. 23:52:21 you want round corners, get a round-corner theme >_> 23:53:07 :) 23:53:31 GNU Emacs: Implementing Your Ideas, Faster Than You :) 23:53:57 <|3b|> can you run a window manager in gnu emacs yet? 23:54:09 web 2.0: reinventing wheels, slower! 23:54:24 |3b|: emacs has window management, sorta 23:54:29 buffers are in windows are in frames. 23:54:33 <|3b|> Ralith: no, an X window manager 23:54:44 but you can do one window per frame and just fall back on your X11 WM. 23:54:53 theres xwem but i think it's xemacs 23:54:56 Which can be xwem 23:56:04 -!- ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:56:21 -!- bchi [~bji@cpe-174-096-192-072.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 23:56:35 i'm not totally clear on why substituting function args literally into the text of some function is so much more revealing than a browseable backtrace. 23:56:54 does that make sense for values that prin1 to huge strings 23:57:16 maybe lisp has damaged my brain. 23:57:17 dto: you should define print-object methods to avoid printing huge objects. 23:57:28 and *print-length* *print-depth* etc. 23:57:30 pjb: what about a long list 23:58:00 *print-length* deals with the cdr, *print-depth* with the car. 23:58:00 *|3b|* votes to use a large bit array or string, just to make it harder to configure 23:58:24 ok but wont the abbreviations reduce the VisualizeOurCodeAndBuildBetterFlowThings 23:59:26 dto: the problem indeed is that it's specialized to certain kind of algorithms and data. 23:59:48 i think weve had a hoax perpetrated on us by these little demo videos 23:59:55 DataLinkDroid: yes.