00:00:01 stassats: atime and lastcmd logs are nice to see what happens/happened in a system. 00:00:27 But I guess now that telnet and finger have been replaced by ssh and facebook, you don't really need them anymore. 00:00:41 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 00:05:38 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-148-167-55.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:03 ainm [~ainm@203.Red-83-36-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:47 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:11:52 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:15:07 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:15:39 -!- tensorpudding_ is now known as tensorpudding 00:19:25 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:19:31 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:20:17 nif [~nif@gateway/tor-sasl/nif] has joined #lisp 00:20:50 nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:33 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:52 arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-13-46.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 00:22:26 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:31:13 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:32:16 -!- scombinator [~user@203.171.40.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34:50 lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:15 hmmmm [~hmmmmmmm@pool-96-253-194-175.sctnpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:18 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:9416:7b9d:1bb:720b] has joined #lisp 00:36:43 i want to use a dynamically scoped variable, and i need it in a function. how would i do that? 00:36:53 how would i use defvar 00:36:59 -!- machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:37:07 i'm thinking progn along with the rest of the body of the function 00:37:39 hmmmm: Do you need local variable, or global? 00:38:15 i really want a global variable, but the problem is that it won't be created when i load the file 00:38:21 so when i go to run the function it won't exist 00:39:02 <|3b|> DEFVAR will create a dynamically scoped variable, and optionally bind it to an initial value 00:39:13 -!- Matt_S_G [~Matt_S_G@gateway/tor-sasl/mattsg/x-78535695] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev] 00:39:15 <|3b|> DEFPARAMETER will do the same but always initializes it 00:39:32 <|3b|> both should generally be used at the top-level, not within a function 00:39:43 (defvar myvar 42) (defun myfunc () (declare (special myvar)) myvar) (myfunc) 00:40:05 so you're saying that when i load the file, (defvar myvar 42) is executed? 00:40:12 when is (defvar myvar 42) run 00:40:33 Why shoudn't it be executed? 00:40:59 then there must be a different problem 00:41:00 hmm 00:41:45 machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:04 hmmmm: You could use pastebin, if you have some code. 00:42:05 <|3b|> NeedMoreDesu: DEFVAR declaims the variable special, so you don't need the declaration in the function (and you should name it *myvar* to avoid accidentally trying to use it as a lexical variable elsewhere) 00:42:22 superflit [~superflit@71-218-198-75.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:09 |3b|: k, understood, thanks. 00:45:38 hmmmm: you're saying you want to use a dynamically scoped variable. But you don't say you need a global variable. What is it you want to do really? 00:45:59 nevermind that 00:46:05 i'm working on something different 00:46:13 Patsantre [~Pazantre@pool-95-83-84-60.ptcomm.ru] has joined #lisp 00:46:36 i probably actually want a dynamically scoped variable and not a global one - i'm walking a graph, and i need to maintain a list of visited nodes 00:47:17 hmmmm: repeat your question? 00:47:42 really, it's okay 00:47:47 no questions 00:48:20 okay 00:49:02 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:51:29 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 00:52:01 hmmmm: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128905 00:52:32 declare... 00:52:36 hmm okay 00:53:04 the thing i found online talking about dynamically scoped variables used (defvar *foo*) but that's the same syntax for a global variable 00:53:50 did you just write that up now? 00:54:17 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:54:21 -!- ainm [~ainm@203.Red-83-36-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ((call/cc call/cc) (call/cc call/cc))] 00:54:59 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE0021910f07ac-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:55:14 <|3b|> CL doesn't really have 'global variables' distinct from 'dynamically scoped' variables 00:56:06 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 00:57:35 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:57:40 hefner: I said "in current use"! [regarding Genera having implementation-defined character attributes, unlike modern implementations, which don't]... What's Genera using implementation-defined character attributes for?... 00:58:08 IIRC, font, and of course, modifiers for input keys. 00:58:33 <|3b|> doesn't one of the commercial lisps still have non-simple chars? 00:58:37 Fonts are per-character?... 00:58:51 Notice that clisp has a with-keyboard-input to read raw input, and READing from the *keyboard-input* stream will return non CHARACTER characters with thos attributes. 00:59:11 Which is silly, they should have used the standard framework for it. 00:59:16 Hexstream: yes. 00:59:27 Hexstream: ever read CLTL1? 00:59:41 hefner: No, I didn't even read CLtL2, eh. 00:59:43 Notice for example: A vs.  vs. A 01:00:19 Before unicode, each font had only 256 character, so you would have needed three different fonts to denote characters A in latin, greek and cyrillic. 01:00:20 I find I already have my hands full with "modern", "current" stuff without browsing the... "expanded universe". 01:00:51 clhs char-font-limit 01:00:52 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for char-font-limit. 01:00:54 darn. 01:00:57 char-code-limit 01:01:12 cltl1 had font and modifier bit attributes attached to characters 01:01:13 Does Zhivago have a twitter? I'm not looking to "out" his real identity, just seeing if I can get at the quips. 01:01:21 In an "embedded" environment such as the Genera, it may be useful to still encode the font in the characters, since the environment has to do the rendereing of the characters on the bitmap itself. 01:01:43 Notice that emacs does it with strings with properties, it's about the same. 01:03:13 if you've got a 32-bit wide character literal, and unicode hasn't been invented yet, you probably have some bits to spare. 01:03:21 hmmmm: yes, I just wrote that paste between my previous question and it. 01:03:40 wow 01:04:14 hmmmm: You can reach the same level: just write all your programs in lisp. 01:04:25 stupid question but i don't want to bother going through the hassle of trying it out myself 01:04:36 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:41 do you have to have functions declared before referencing them 01:04:53 No, not necessarily. 01:04:59 If they're in the same file, no problem. 01:05:00 like if i wanted to call bar in foo, and i defun bar below foo 01:05:02 hmmmm: Not within a same "compilation unit". Else you might get warnings. 01:05:03 okay 01:05:07 Otherwise you may get a warning, but still no problem. 01:05:12 and same with variables of course 01:05:19 No, not with variables. 01:05:22 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:27 variables can occur anywhere? 01:05:37 variables are symbols though just as much as functions 01:05:41 i don't see why it isn't the same 01:05:44 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 01:05:52 That's because, like for macros, global variables defined with defvar and defparameter have a compilation-time effect, namely to declaim the symbol special. 01:06:02 neither variables nor functions are symbols. 01:06:03 You could NOT define the variable before using if you declaim the symbol special. 01:06:04 Symbols are neither variables nor functions... They just name them. 01:06:21 o/ 01:06:25 lol :/ 01:06:35 okay 01:07:23 hmmmm: try: (macroexpand '(defvar *x*)) 01:07:46 i see 01:07:50 ahh 01:07:53 this makes a lot more sense 01:08:09 it's like a python script or something, where if raw code is in the file not in a defun, it's run 01:08:27 also that macroexpand is useful 01:08:29 Yes, but more. 01:08:52 some forms have effects at compilation time in addition of load time or execution. 01:08:55 why does push use setq instead of setf? 01:09:12 hmmmm: Irrelevant in that context... 01:09:20 ok 01:09:20 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:09:44 in the case of defvar, it has the effect of executing (proclaim `(special ,varname)) at compilation time, and to initialize it at load time or execution. 01:09:49 (setf my-var 'foo) has the same effect as (setq my-var 'foo) (regardless of whether my-var is a variable or a symbol-macro) 01:09:52 load time is when you load the .fasl file. 01:09:58 execution is when you load the source. 01:10:24 also this is a stupid question too 01:10:31 hmmmm: Don't ask to ask... 01:10:33 how would i find something in a variable that's a list 01:10:40 well actually 01:10:44 how would i extract the value from a variable 01:11:05 in this case the value is a list that i wish to pass as a parameter to find 01:11:11 antgreen [~user@CPE0021910f07ac-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:11:12 Now would be a good time to read a tutorial. 01:11:18 ok 01:11:31 hmmmm: have a look at http://cliki.net/ there are pointers there. 01:11:33 I've always suspected Zhivago was Nick Nolte anyway. 01:11:39 minion: Tell hmmmm about PCL. 01:11:40 hmmmm: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 01:12:07 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:12:41 I am reading that by the way 01:12:51 i mean i see (lambda () foo) being used 01:12:57 That's a good thing, because it's the best CL book available today! 01:12:59 i guess lambda doesn't do what i thought it did? 01:13:56 or maybe *foo* is what i want 01:14:46 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:15:02 Do you want to search through a list which is value of some variable? 01:15:48 hmmmm: in that case it's a lexical variable. lambda creates a closure. 01:16:28 really what i need to do is just screw around a bit and figure this all out myself, but of course, there's no time for this 01:16:31 (defvar myvar 42) (funcall (lambda () myvar)) 01:16:37 grr 01:16:55 Em, ok, ok. There is no ** around variable name. 01:17:06 I'm still not quite sure what the ** does 01:17:12 it's a convention 01:17:14 Nothing. 01:17:18 oh, okay :) 01:17:20 hmmmm: there's more time than you think. 01:17:21 that clears things up 01:17:29 less than 3 hours!? 01:17:30 :/ 01:17:53 anyhow i should probably continue working on this 01:18:42 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 01:19:40 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-121-223-199-47.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:20:23 Does anyone knows why SBCL crashes on intensive condition/restart using? 01:21:16 <|3b|> Patsantre: because you didn't give the sbcl devs a test case of conditions/restarts crashing it yet? :) 01:21:43 Patsantre actual crash or condition being thrown? 01:22:10 *|3b|* assumes a condition being thrown wouldn't be unexpected during intensive condition usage 01:22:26 <|3b|> or signaled rather... would be sort of odd to THROW a condition 01:23:05 so let's say i have a (loop for ) statement, and i want to break out if a certain condition isn't true. what would i do here? 01:23:08 indeed. just wanted a confirmation though, I never SBCL crash that didn't involve foreign code 01:23:45 msxx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 01:24:16 hi. I'm trying to override print-object method of some third party class. is there a way to still refer to the original print-object in my own? 01:24:27 <|3b|> hmmmm: PCL covers LOOP fairly well, might skim that section 01:24:44 #H(symbol) is broken in cliki.net 01:24:52 msxx: use an :around method and use call-next-method? 01:24:54 -!- borodon [~Borodon@ip68-106-150-168.cl.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:59 LOOP for black belts? 01:25:04 that one? 01:25:07 <|3b|> hmmmm: sounds right 01:25:13 that sounds pretty advanced 01:25:14 okay 01:25:34 <|3b|> minion: tell hmmmm about 6.1.4 01:25:35 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``6.1.4''. 01:25:42 i like this loop tutorial, shorter than loop for black belts. http://www.ai.sri.com/pkarp/loop.html 01:25:50 <|3b|> clhs 6.1.4 01:25:50 Termination Test Clauses: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/06_ad.htm 01:25:58 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.78.35] has joined #lisp 01:26:03 coldpizza72i [~anthonybe@129.21.147.196] has joined #lisp 01:26:14 <|3b|> hmmmm: or you can read that link from specbot 01:26:36 woah. 01:26:41 i never knew lisp was this imperative 01:26:57 Bike thanks. is there a reason why calling package:print-object got me into an infinite loop? aren't those two dinstinct print-object methods 01:27:06 don't tell me there's a (break) 01:27:16 <|3b|> CL covers lots of coding styles, from functional to imperative to OOP to meta 01:27:27 I don't think I understand your question, msxx, sorry. 01:27:39 there's (break) but it does something completely different 01:28:34 Bike http://paste.lisp.org/display/128907 01:29:08 that gets me into infinite unless qclass is QRect 01:29:14 <|3b|> msxx: is PRINT-OBJECT the same symbol as QT::PRINT-OBJECT? 01:29:14 +loop 01:29:33 |3b| no I don't have use :qt in my package 01:29:48 <|3b|> are you sure qt didn't use :cl? 01:30:05 it probably did 01:30:08 I see now 01:30:11 err wait, that's not what i want to do.. 01:30:13 it's all cl:print-object 01:30:20 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.78.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:30:24 i'm thinking too un-lisp like 01:30:29 hmmmm (return) 01:30:34 returns from a loop too 01:30:36 (return)?! 01:30:48 yes 01:30:50 Qian_ [~Qian@123.118.193.122] has joined #lisp 01:30:59 I want to return if the lengths of two lists are not equal to eachother 01:31:02 so i'd write something like 01:31:20 if it wasn't cl:print-object it wouldn't even be used? 01:31:27 when printing on repl 01:32:18 it worked 01:32:26 here we go http://paste.lisp.org/display/128908 01:32:32 how does :after work? I'm not really getting it 01:32:44 if I'm using gel does that mean I'm using common lisp? 01:32:46 so we have two cl:print-object methods now, for same arguments? how 01:32:48 gcl* 01:33:04 oh wait that's not what i want to do 01:33:07 uh oh 01:33:12 This entire thing is messed up 01:33:21 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:33:21 msxx: you might want to use print-unreadable-object instead of your format. 01:33:21 hmmmmmmmmm 01:33:45 i want to execute some function, and THEN compare the length of a list in a variable to something else 01:33:47 Bike why? 01:34:25 can i use the "until" keyword inside of the loop body, outside of a function call? 01:34:31 <|3b|> coldpizza72i: gcl more or less implement Common Lisp, you might still be using non-CL extensions though (most CLimplementations have lots of extensions) 01:35:35 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.73.31] has joined #lisp 01:35:38 people use gcl? 01:36:33 <|3b|> you probably shouldn't be using GCL unless you have some specific reason though (and note that GCL and GNU CLisp are 2 different CL implementations)) 01:36:57 (defmethod print-object ((this qobject) stream) :after <- if I got this right, this creates another cl:print-object method for those arguments? whereas without :after it would just overwrite the original one? 01:37:35 <|3b|> msxx: you probably want an :around method, if you want to be able to skip the default behavior sometimes 01:37:45 hmmmm: I don't think I understand your question, but maybe (loop do (myfunc) while condition) 01:37:57 yes that's what i want to do. what difference would :around vs :after make here? 01:38:07 the problem is that i need to execute a function, and THEN compare the length of a variable 01:38:17 <|3b|> msxx: sounds like it would be better to just convince the authors of that QT package to add some dispatch for print-object on qt objects though 01:38:36 <|3b|> msxx: :after runs after the default method, so too late to skip the default 01:38:37 but the vibe i'm getting from this CL loop macro tutorial is that i have to have all the conditions of the loop before the body 01:39:05 hmmmm: you can even write assembler in lisp: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/9b6adf09821a9eed?hl=en 01:39:09 |3b| but with :after I only got output of my function, not the original one 01:39:24 <|3b|> hmmmm: if you can read BNF, http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm#loop will tell you exactly what can go where in LOOP 01:39:36 thanks 01:39:53 <|3b|> msxx: sure you didn't already overwrite the default one earlier? 01:39:53 yeah, about that lisp documentation page 01:39:55 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:56 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.73.31] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40:02 i found that it doesn't explain what the function does or anything 01:40:07 but just the specifics and semantics of it 01:40:14 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.73.31] has joined #lisp 01:40:29 i assume that it'd have me read the book in order to learn about the function 01:40:57 <|3b|> which function? 01:41:15 whatever function i'm looking up on that documentation website 01:42:05 thom_ [~thom@pool-173-60-243-134.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:18 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 01:43:58 |3b| yes I'm sure, I just tested it, restarting repl first 01:44:05 -!- gabot [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:44:24 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128907#1 01:44:47 my function is used for QRect, original one for QPoint etc 01:44:52 <|3b|> msxx: i think the :after / :around goes before the arglist 01:45:09 this worked though? hmm 01:45:31 <|3b|> yeah, you just wrote a normal method with :after in the body, which does nothing 01:45:33 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@94.144.63.14] has joined #lisp 01:45:33 -!- thom_logn [~thom@pool-173-60-243-134.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:45:33 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:46:08 <|3b|> ( :after is a self evaluating symbol, so evaluates to :after then the implicit progn in the function body ignores that value since it isn't the last form) 01:46:17 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@184-106-98-73.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:46:25 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 01:46:28 while and until pass control to the epilogue when the loop is terminated, what is the epilogue exactly referring to? 01:46:34 the code after the (loop ) statement? 01:46:44 |3b| you are right. but this is very odd, before I was getting infinite loop with code like this 01:46:48 pspace [~andrew@d118-75-188-8.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:49 I'm reading PCL loop for black belts by the way 01:46:54 now I'm even more confused 01:46:58 sigjuice [~sigjuice@184-106-98-73.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:58 <|3b|> hmmmm: things like a FINALLY clause i think 01:47:14 now there's a finally clause 01:47:16 hoboy 01:47:44 <|3b|> msxx: the first one was calling the generic function again, this one calls call-next-method 01:47:49 ah right 01:47:57 so I didn't actually overwrite original method 01:48:06 both are still available 01:48:19 but you said I need :after/:around, yet it works without it? 01:48:22 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 01:48:25 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:28 <|3b|> no, you overwrote it, just with one that doesn't go into a loop 01:48:29 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:49:11 so i just get generic print for objects without print-method when i call next-method 01:49:14 <|3b|> it will print something other than qobject with whatever printer it has for parent classes of qobject 01:49:25 <|3b|> *other than QRect 01:50:27 *|3b|* is simplifying a bit, trying to explain all of CLOS would take too long, and i'd get it wrong anyway 01:50:43 |SLB| [~slabua@host131-39-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 01:51:24 well it seems I can't call original method no matter what I do 01:51:40 I'll try restarting repl 01:51:40 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:51:46 *|3b|* still thinks it should be fixed in the qt lib 01:52:02 sure maybe, but I don't want to wait for a fix 01:52:25 <|3b|> since even if you get it to work, it probably won't work if someone else wants to extend it for their favorite qobject type 01:52:27 and this is a good learning experience anyway 01:52:44 yeah I see 01:53:08 ok i got some results now 01:53:14 you were right with :after both are called 01:53:24 <|3b|> you probably don't want that (values) at the end also 01:53:37 why not? i'm not returning anything meaningful 01:54:15 yeah! it worked with print-object :around 01:54:27 <|3b|> the spec says print-object returns object 01:55:00 object it dispatches on? 01:55:07 <|3b|> looks like it 01:55:39 if some other library did their own print-object :around, and did (call-next-method), would it call my method? 01:56:09 <|3b|> not if you both specialized on the same types 01:56:28 ok so there can be just one :around method 01:56:44 <|3b|> for a given set of types, yes 01:56:52 http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/f_pr_obj.htm 01:56:58 where are you reading that you have to return object? 01:57:02 <|3b|> you could have another :arund method on a parent class for example 01:57:02 <|3b|> 01:57:17 yes I see 01:57:19 <|3b|> print-object object stream => object 01:58:28 but nowhere in the text does it specify you have to return it. odd 01:58:50 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 01:58:55 and I'm checking print-object functions in ccl: package, they aren't returning. 01:58:56 -!- naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-247-132.w90-4.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:59:35 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-234-209.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:35 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-234-209.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:01:11 <|3b|> yeah, might not actually matter, but better to be safe than try to track down a subtle bug later :) 02:01:42 gko [~gko@220.228.255.202] has joined #lisp 02:02:28 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:02:50 Probably an anti-hijacking method 02:03:07 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.238.48.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:03:10 i hope it doesn't matter :). i'm not returning it in any of my print-objects, and actually i can't find any print-object that does it. i've checked ones in qt: asdf: ql: 02:03:25 It would be very exciting if replacing foo with (print foo) had different semantics. 02:03:30 if it's really required clhs is to blame for not explicitly saying it in text 02:03:40 Afaik, print is responsible for returning it 02:05:49 (So you shouldn't be able to notice, as you're not supposed to be calling print-object) 02:06:34 -!- ASau` [~user@128-72-117-212.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:12 ASau` [~user@128-72-117-212.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 02:08:08 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:43 echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:08:55 venk [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has joined #lisp 02:09:02 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:10:27 -!- arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-13-46.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:10:31 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:10:49 -!- venk is now known as vpit3833 02:12:30 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-204-106.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:13:02 okay i realized that the loop is 100% unnecessary 02:13:06 so i stripped that out completely 02:13:23 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:13:28 this is pretty weird. slime inspector says QObject class has class, deleted and pointer class. but the only slot I can access with slot-value is 'class 02:13:39 i want to execute a function that returns nothing of importance, and then compare a global variable with something else and return T or nil based on that 02:13:43 class, deleted and pointer slots* 02:14:25 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:30 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 02:14:48 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.238.48.245] has joined #lisp 02:14:49 <|3b|> msxx: are you sure you use the correct symbol (from correct package) for the slot name? 02:15:41 I'm not :) 02:16:43 sometimes I think I'm getting better at CL, and then I stumble on basic things like this and earlier defmethod problem 02:17:14 -!- devhost [~devhost@174.143.148.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:17:45 btw qt package does not export pointer and deleted symbols. meaning it probably doesn't want me to mess with object's internals? 02:18:18 i'm using qt::pointer to access it 02:19:20 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:20:03 okay guys, this is seriously my last question 02:20:10 I figured everything else out 02:20:16 http://pastebin.com/7wRrVGSe 02:20:17 42 02:20:27 how would i set visited to () before that returns? 02:20:37 Or wants you to be aware that you're creating a fragile dependency. 02:20:51 prog1 02:20:53 i need visited's value to compare in order to get the truth of the entire operation 02:21:11 prog1? 02:21:22 (prog1 ) 02:21:33 Where did visted come from? 02:21:37 they're evaluated in order, but the value of the 1st is what the whole prog1 returns 02:21:46 <|3b|> you don't need a PROGN there, since DEFUN already has an implicit PROGN 02:21:53 wait, it does? 02:21:59 excellent 02:22:05 this language is a whole lot more flexible than i thought. 02:22:09 it is 02:22:22 <|3b|> clhs shiftf 02:22:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_shiftf.htm 02:22:35 Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:42 okay, so for the first parameter of prog1 i have my comparison, which is going to be what's returned, and then the second parameter is where i setf visited to () 02:22:45 let me do that 02:23:06 <|3b|> ^ is one way to set a variable to something while using the old value, PROG1 is another option 02:23:28 <|3b|> if VISITED is a special var, you should probably just use a local binding though 02:23:30 Grrrr. Trying to debug logical-pathnames with asdf. Every implementation gives very different errors. 02:23:57 VISITED is global 02:23:58 <|3b|> and name it *visited* to avoid conflicts with lexical vars named visited 02:28:38 alright, http://pastebin.com/tXWcWdZY has no errors of any kind, but it doesn't work: (connectedp '((a b) (a c) (b e) (c a) (c d) (d e) (e a))) returns T as expected, however (connectedp '((a b) (a c) (b e) (c a) (c d) (e a))) returns T as well, where it's obviously disconnected 02:28:54 is there a debugger in clisp? 02:29:25 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 02:29:46 in fact nevermind that; (connectedp '((a b))) returns T as well 02:31:10 -!- echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:24 echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:31:41 not answering your question, but (if (..) nil (progn ..)) can be rewritten as (unless (..) ..) 02:32:04 no nevermind, i'm just confused on the definition of connected i guess 02:32:13 (a b) is connected 02:32:19 ((a b)) rather 02:33:00 (list (unless T 10) (unless nil 10)) => (nil 10) 02:33:03 so unless is basically "if (!statement) { do here } " 02:33:30 yes 02:33:45 <|3b|> also, don't put ) on lines by themselves 02:33:47 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has joined #lisp 02:33:53 or opposite of when, since both have implicit progn 02:34:03 okay 02:34:20 connectedp is supposed to return T if the graph is complete, and NIL otherwise? 02:34:31 complete, no 02:34:38 i'm not sure what complete is actually i'd have to look that up 02:34:46 i'm just confused on the definition of connected 02:34:56 that code is right actually 02:35:19 It means that each node is directly connected to every other node. 02:35:20 <|3b|> and separate words in identifiers with - instead of _ 02:35:39 which would imply strongly connected 02:35:55 |3b| i come from a C/unix background, i just find _ more comforting 02:35:58 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:03 hmmmm: get over it. 02:36:22 we all did _ and ) on separate lines when we started, you'll get over it. :) 02:36:29 <|3b|> hmmmm: yeah, consider how you would like reading C code with BEGIN and END#defined to { and } :) 02:36:37 Oh, you want to return T if the graph is strongly connected. 02:36:54 well i'm not really sure 02:37:04 lemme just figure this out 02:37:10 for the time being i'll change the _s to -s 02:37:11 As in, there are no nodes that are unreachable from the given node. 02:37:40 no, wait, that's incorrect. sorry. 02:38:12 i find _ ugly now. - is used in natural language to connect two words too, not _ 02:39:39 <|3b|> instead of resetting *visited* in connectedp, you should just wrap the body in (let ((*visited* nil)) ...) 02:40:36 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 02:40:42 yeah it'll be reverted to it's old value after let block 02:41:15 <|3b|> it will also be initialized at the beginning, unlike current version 02:41:31 <|3b|> which could be affected by something else setting that var 02:42:04 <|3b|> also handles exiting the function from an error better, since it won't leave partial values there 02:42:20 yeah good point 02:42:21 hmmmm: You connectedp function returns true if every node is reachable from the first node on the first edge. That is true for all of the graphs you've listed including: ((a b)) and (connectedp '((a b) (a c) (b e) (c a) (c d) (e a))) 02:42:27 <|3b|> also won't break if you run it from 2 threads at once 02:43:30 Sounds like more like transitive-closure-p. 02:43:55 -!- nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:44:11 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has left #lisp 02:45:25 yes, i realize the problem 02:45:40 so indeed i would need to check if i can reach every other node for all nodes 02:45:40 -!- nif [~nif@gateway/tor-sasl/nif] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:45:59 i'd have to loop through each node and check if the length of the visited list is equal to the length of the node list 02:46:53 Or you could just do what you're doing for each node in the graph. 02:47:22 i was having problems understanding how to accomplish what i wanted to do with the loop macro 02:47:36 i mean, maybe what i had was correct, i don't know 02:47:41 i'll try that out again. 02:47:53 now tell me more about transitive closure? 02:48:11 (dolist (node nodes) (unless (connectedp node graph) (return-from my-fun nil)) 02:48:32 "dolist"? 02:48:36 this is a new one 02:48:56 Oh, well, you could use loop instead. 02:49:04 I'll use that :) 02:49:12 I don't understand the return-from though 02:49:19 what is my-fun? 02:49:36 just (return nil) would return from a dolist. loops (and everything else) return values 02:49:42 your function name 02:49:44 the function that expression is inside of 02:49:47 okay 02:50:04 if dolist is last form in the defun you can do just return too 02:50:20 now if connectedp never returns nil, it'll be T , therefore the return will be T 02:50:24 correct? 02:50:44 Yeah, (dolist (node graph t) ...) for that case, iirc. 02:51:03 the function's return value is the evaluation of the last "form" (parenthesized thing) 02:51:05 okay 02:51:14 dolist isn't a function. 02:51:20 it's a macro 02:51:34 -!- fukushima [~fukushima@z1.61-193-209.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:51:36 i was referring to my-fun though 02:51:47 results---if a return or return-from form is executed, the values passed from that form; otherwise, the values returned by the result-form or nil if there is no result-form. 02:52:24 Which is why you you need (dolist (node graph t) ...) for that method to work. 02:52:29 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 02:52:34 ok 02:52:51 with return-from you can make a function return from the middle of the body 02:52:58 c0atz1n_ [~c0atz1n@189.238.7.69] has joined #lisp 02:54:28 how can I check what slots a class has? 02:54:44 can i iterate over all the slots? 02:54:45 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.238.48.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:54:50 msxx: using the MOP. 02:54:51 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483BDE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:10 msxx: mop:class-slots. 02:55:22 thanks 02:55:28 See for example: http://paste.lisp.org/display/116117 02:56:26 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p54839255.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:56:59 teggi [~teggi@113.172.42.8] has joined #lisp 02:57:38 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:58:18 use closer-mop if you want to be portable. (ql:quickload :closer-mop) (c2mop:class-slots (find-class 'class-name)) 02:59:38 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.29.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:00:57 fukushima [~fukushima@z1.61-193-209.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:04:54 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-218-198-75.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:05:10 superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.89] has joined #lisp 03:05:46 slyrus [~chatzilla@c-98-201-107-177.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:00 ur5us [~smuxi@17.196.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 03:09:53 -!- Qian_ [~Qian@123.118.193.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:09:54 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.73.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:12:58 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 03:13:03 -!- echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:14:07 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:15:06 stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.29.67] has joined #lisp 03:15:07 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-195-211.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:16:24 evening 03:16:35 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-195-211.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:18:09 vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:18:23 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:20:00 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 03:20:11 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:21:31 vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:22:10 -!- msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-98-92-215-204.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:23:09 msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-98-92-215-204.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:23 morning 03:25:48 pnq [~nick@ACA21D69.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:26:38 cblot [~cblot@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:53 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:29:39 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:30:05 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 03:31:26 -!- cblot [~cblot@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:34:55 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:36:03 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:31 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:14 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:39:38 -!- c0atz1n_ [~c0atz1n@189.238.7.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:41:15 -!- ur5us [~smuxi@17.196.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:41:24 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:41:37 vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has joined #lisp 03:43:55 adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-252-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:09 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 03:48:03 Is there an api to record the source file for a particular construct in SBCL? The manual describes how to retrieve this information, but I couldn't see how to record it (if I know it and the compiler doesn't). 03:48:29 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.238.7.69] has joined #lisp 03:48:34 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.89] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:48:44 superflit [~superflit@71-218-198-75.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:01 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has joined #lisp 03:49:58 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-121-223-199-47.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:51:44 -!- paul0 [~user@200.175.62.253.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:52:25 Qian [~Qian@123.118.193.122] has joined #lisp 03:52:30 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-195-211.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:52:33 china taday forbid the 22 port for ssh tunnel, does anyone know the reason..... 03:56:38 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA05D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:59:03 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.65.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:59:36 c0atz1n_ [~c0atz1n@189.238.45.51] has joined #lisp 03:59:42 -!- c0atz1n_ [~c0atz1n@189.238.45.51] has quit [Client Quit] 04:00:01 Qt does a lot of things C++ can't do. because it's not real C++ 04:00:05 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.238.7.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:00:08 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.65.239] has joined #lisp 04:00:57 wrong channel 04:06:20 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.73.31] has joined #lisp 04:07:00 -!- benny` [~benny@i577A1506.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:08:23 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:9416:7b9d:1bb:720b] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:09:05 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-0-8.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 04:09:17 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0704.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:10:29 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:13:03 -!- Bacteria 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[5e24ef43@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.239.67] has joined #lisp 05:50:14 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.45.218] has joined #lisp 05:51:15 <[6502]> Hello. Is there a way to reformat lisp code written all on one line automatically in emacs? 05:51:31 paul0 [~user@200.175.62.253.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 05:52:12 (pprint '(code)) 05:52:43 Better do it in CL, for CL code, but in emacs that works too. 05:52:45 M-x intent-region should get you some ways 05:52:47 <[6502]> pjb: right now i'm using sbcl to do that 05:53:18 *indent-region 05:53:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.12.90] has joined #lisp 05:53:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.12.90] has quit [Changing host] 05:53:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:54:08 <[6502]> pnathan: indent region leaves it all on one line... it doesn't add line breaks (in my emacs setup at least) 05:54:10 [6502]: it may help to try different values for *print-right-margin* 05:54:28 in CL. 05:54:44 or fill-column in emacs lisp 05:57:14 <[6502]> pjb: even setting fill-column to 70 indent-region leaves the line a single line 05:57:39 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Quit: PuercoPop] 05:58:04 <[6502]> pjb: and i get an error about pprint not being defined 05:58:29 -!- |SLB| is now known as [SLB] 05:58:42 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host131-39-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 05:58:43 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 05:59:19 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@114.143.161.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:02:30 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-opolljvqxiraxpzg] has joined #lisp 06:02:49 Is there a way to convince LOOP to do something like this: (LOOP for i = (generate-test-case) until i), where i gets reassigned to the result of generate-test-case until it fulfills a condition; then at the end, i is returned. 06:03:34 -!- paul0 [~user@200.175.62.253.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:08:29 <|3b|> add FINALLY (RETURN I) to what you have? 06:08:40 pnathan: like the last couple of examples here; http://www.ai.sri.com/pkarp/loop.html 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[~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:26:31 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:30:21 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 08:31:01 If I have a list of things, and I want to do something as long as none are nil, what's the 'right' way to do that? I bet it's *not* my dumb nested (when ..)s 08:31:20 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:31:34 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:32:04 clintm: you mean iterate over the list, or check if the list contains nil? 08:32:31 jdz: just check confirm that there are no nils. 08:32:43 err.. words. s/check// 08:32:51 clintm: (every #'identity ) 08:32:59 oooo 08:33:11 identity, huh? nice. 08:33:22 ala ski-calc? 08:33:29 nm, I'll look it up. :) thanks! 08:33:34 clhs every 08:33:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_everyc.htm 08:33:53 oh, even better. Thanks again! 08:33:56 specbot: thanks! 08:34:17 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:34:54 clintm: you can also use FIND (or friends) 08:35:46 like, (find-if #'null ) 08:36:01 or just (find nil ...) 08:36:22 oh, scratch that 08:36:42 you'll not be able to tell if it succeeded or not 08:37:02 Skola [~Skola@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 08:38:40 Widoa [~Widoa@78-73-117-181-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:40:19 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-uwovlwqhstatvcef] has joined #lisp 08:40:23 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-pxfpihmwmkttkfkg] has joined #lisp 08:42:24 __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:48 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 08:47:44 (position 'nil list) 08:47:58 (position nil list) 08:48:37 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:49:39 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 08:55:07 -!- xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.208.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:55:22 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 08:59:03 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:03:08 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.208.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:04:35 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 09:13:45 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:13:54 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:14:08 -!- _8david [~user@port-92-195-74-221.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:17:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21:51 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:22:25 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:31:25 -!- twopi is now known as unglue 09:31:41 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 09:32:57 -!- unglue [~tristan@lvps176-28-16-172.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:33:12 unglue [~tristan@lvps176-28-16-172.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has joined #lisp 09:33:23 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:33:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:34:38 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:34:56 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:35:08 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:28 kpreid [~kpreid@Lark.price.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 09:37:11 <|42|> are FASL files something like Python pyc files? 09:37:28 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:30 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:38:17 -!- literal_ is now known as literal 09:38:28 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:38:48 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:39:20 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-opolljvqxiraxpzg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:39:22 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:24 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:39:55 pyo for some implementation 09:41:21 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:21 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:42:55 basically yes 09:43:01 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:24 except they change format much more often on free lisps 09:44:01 someone familiar with allegro/lispworks can comment on how often they change .fasl format, and if its backward compatible 09:46:02 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 09:47:49 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-202-153.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:49:23 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:50:56 pjb: About your suggestion of using ReStructuredText, as is would not it be a pain when describing global variables, since *blah* is automatically a markup for italics like org-mode? 09:50:57 are quicklisp's slime-helper and emacs 23.4 unfriendly to each other? 09:51:16 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 09:52:30 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 09:52:42 emacs tells me "Symbol as a variable is void: slime-fancy 09:53:46 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.73.31] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:53:49 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:59 -!- pspace [~andrew@d118-75-188-8.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:00:03 add^_ [~add^_^@m83-185-142-102.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:00:28 Kryztof [~user@158.223.162.37] has joined #lisp 10:00:58 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:05:20 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-14-2.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 10:13:18 -!- Skola [~Skola@89.184.179.185] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 10:15:30 *|42|* wishes some lisp pro would livestream just to watch their workflow 10:16:48 *clintm* concurs... that would be pretty awesome. 10:16:59 madnificent: works ok on 24.0 and i have heard no other reports 10:18:31 <|42|> esp with xsplit you can money livestreaming :) 10:18:54 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:19:17 |42|: you'd have to have thousands of users to make it worthwhile, no? 10:19:30 there are not that much lispers in the world, anyway 10:20:03 <|42|> jdz: why do *only* lisp 10:20:28 -!- jervis [~jervis@dyn-160-39-197-236.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:20:42 because all other languages seem to be a subset of lisp? 10:21:23 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:21:43 <|42|> even if you use only lisp while programming there is emacs, and the stuff you would be actually working on.. 10:22:36 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:22:40 |42| see http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov 10:22:41 what part of the workflow interests you? 10:22:58 <|42|> kennyd: seen that too many times 10:23:29 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:23:40 <|42|> dto for one could do it :D 10:24:45 <|42|> well, if people watch notch do java crap and listen to even worse techno.. 10:27:44 -!- blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:30 blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 10:30:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:31:00 CrazyThinker` [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 10:32:21 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:32:22 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-27-35.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:22 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:22 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-27-35.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:33:54 -!- CrazyThinker` [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:34:54 CrazyThinker` [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 10:35:12 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:35:27 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:50 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:36:57 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-27-35.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 10:37:02 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-27-35.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 10:37:30 -!- CrazyThinker` [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:38:29 CrazyThinker` [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 10:40:50 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.238.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:40:57 Just sounds like a defense mechanism. 10:41:27 *maxm--* has a nagging suspicion a lot of lispers also use org-mode, which allows one to mix/match personal / business / etc agendas and todo list freely 10:41:27 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.238.120] has joined #lisp 10:41:33 -!- CrazyThinker` [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:42:22 and would be embarrassed by pop-to-buffer suddenly revealing daily agenda with "2x TODO return big-boobed nurses video DONE Code awesome foobar" 10:42:31 CrazyThinker` [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 10:42:59 Oops. 10:43:17 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 10:45:42 anyone knows a way to stop all running swank servers without knowing what port they run on? 10:45:47 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:46:34 Xach: seems to have been an issue with stale .elc files 10:47:17 mishoo: see swank::*servers* 10:47:40 and swank::*connections* 10:48:18 I noticed them, but swank::*servers* is (strangely) nil in my repl 10:48:38 did you read its docstring? 10:48:43 any case, previously I was relying on swank::*listener-sockets*, and that broke after the last update.. I'd prefer a public API for that :-\ 10:50:28 did read it but it's not clear why it's nil now.. maybe slime starts it in a different way 10:50:44 is there a slime option to have it listen to nonlocalhost connections as well? 10:51:04 Phoodus: swank::*loopback-interface* 10:51:26 mishoo: it says right there "listening sockets." 10:53:31 -!- CrazyThinker` [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:53:45 right, when I start swank from my program with create-server I do get it in swank::*servers*.. good enough, thanks! 10:56:14 Kaisyu [~sanggi0.l@121.50.20.11] has joined #lisp 10:57:20 Kaisyu2 [~sanggi0.l@121.50.20.11] has joined #lisp 10:58:34 visar [~visar@77.29.156.49] has joined #lisp 11:01:11 -!- Kaisyu [~sanggi0.l@121.50.20.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:05:20 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:05:40 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 11:08:01 i've already asked that here, but didn't get answer, so i ask again: is there some kind of environment for untrusted code execution on CL ? LUA or spidermonkey bindings ? 11:08:57 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.29.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:09:16 something where i can limit memory and CPU time for some part of code and provide limited set of functions to interact with outside only 11:09:42 codewalker is NOT an option here 11:10:11 no 11:10:28 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:13:17 naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-255-79.w90-4.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:14:43 anonus: use some other virtualization - ulimit, cgroup, chroot, and an external process? 11:14:53 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 11:14:56 or write a limited interpreter ? 11:14:59 i need portable implementation 11:15:21 limited interpreter is a little bit overkill for my purposes 11:16:27 anonus: everything is "portable" ... you get lisp in javascript, python in lisp, lisp in python, even a 6502 emulator in js 11:17:09 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 11:17:41 i can't use ulimit and cgroup on win 11:18:58 anonus: there's a javascript-to-lisp compiler which you could probably use, though I think you'd need to modify it to enforce such "limits" 11:19:11 anonus: http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/cl-javascript/ 11:19:24 hmm 11:21:43 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:24:55 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 11:25:00 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:27:43 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:31:55 -!- gko [~gko@220.228.255.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:33:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:37:02 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 11:39:23 anonus: you could probably get Lua running through FFI somehow 11:40:09 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined 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[~saschakb@p4FEA0704.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:21 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@31.163.208.29] has joined #lisp 14:11:44 -!- diginet [~diginet@adsl-69-153-135-2.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:12:31 diginet [~diginet@adsl-69-153-135-2.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:39 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:51 kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-139-30-124.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 14:18:54 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-30-229.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:20:21 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:23:23 antifuchs: hi, i'm trying to revive autobench and having some problems. i imported your db dump, inserted my machine into machines table, checked out old commit that still had version.lisp-expr file and run autobench:build-and-benchmark. It build and tested a few versions 1.0.46.44 -- 1.0.47.1 and 1.0.47.13 -- 1.0.47.22 set show implementation to true in db. However, I can't see the test results in the graph. I think it's something 14:23:23 to do with release-condition (called in implementation-run-times) and the way it constraints non-release versions, looking for max release-date. The natural inner join for timings in implementation-run-times doesnt return anything due to the version_id which doesn't make sense to me (it's the version_id of the last build). Any ideas how to get the graph for my test data show up? Thanks. 14:24:54 optikalmouse [~user@76.9.199.178] has joined #lisp 14:27:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:43 chupish [182c5af4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.44.90.244] has joined #lisp 14:30:41 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:31:06 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #lisp 14:33:38 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-27-35.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:33:38 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-27-35.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:34:02 -!- LiamH [~healy@wireless-206-196-162-153.umd.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:34:23 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:39:49 Radium [~carbon@117.203.9.127] has joined #lisp 14:40:09 -!- Radium_ [~carbon@117.203.12.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:42:53 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:55 ainm [~ainm@86.Red-79-146-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:19 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:49:51 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 14:50:54 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.29.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:51:20 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Client Quit] 14:55:01 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:44 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:13 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 14:59:18 __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:29 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:24 __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:42 antifuchs: got it now ;-) 15:06:48 Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:38 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 15:08:42 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-uwovlwqhstatvcef] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:08:54 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-pxfpihmwmkttkfkg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:08:57 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.238.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:03 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:04 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.238.120] has joined #lisp 15:10:15 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@50.Red-88-11-24.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 15:10:37 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 15:10:43 Greetings lispers 15:11:26 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:12:34 Hola ThomasH 15:13:29 djanatyn [~user@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 15:13:50 morning 15:15:17 -!- 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has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:08:16 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.42.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:26 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:40 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:11:35 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.214] has quit [Quit: Offline] 16:12:16 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:15:07 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has left #lisp 16:16:27 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:17:45 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 16:20:46 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 16:21:05 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:21:54 hi Fade. 16:24:40 sup Fade 16:24:58 bonjour Fade! 16:25:38 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26:11 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:27:56 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:29:04 m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.37] has joined #lisp 16:30:37 -!- diginet [~diginet@adsl-69-153-135-2.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:07 *Xach* thinks of another qlmapper script: what projects have no readme of any form? 16:31:28 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.64.220] has joined #lisp 16:31:57 *stassats`* promptly does cat "there's no readme" > README to all projects 16:32:39 stassats`: you could use qlmapper for that! 16:33:04 Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has joined #lisp 16:33:09 Xach: check they all have a recognizable :license attribute. 16:33:19 pjb: yes, another great use 16:33:33 I wonder how many actually use :version 16:33:38 and what the different formats are. 16:33:38 I have a manifest building package that gather the licenses to check compatibility. 16:33:43 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.219] has joined #lisp 16:33:54 sykopomp: only one version style is supported, but many warning-inducing variants are out there in the wild 16:34:09 digits-with-dots is the supported format 16:34:54 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:35:01 it would be nice to gather all the licenses of libraries and dependencies, since isn't that required when redistributing applications? 16:35:04 it would just be good to map over them and have some stats on the general amount and quality of system information. 16:35:17 howeyc: I have that code. Not published yet. 16:35:37 :version "git" 16:35:38 oooh yes. 16:35:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.158.66] has joined #lisp 16:35:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.158.66] has quit [Changing host] 16:35:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:36:01 -!- two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:36:02 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 16:36:33 pjb: I'd be interested if you ever get around to it 16:36:37 how do you specify dual licenses? 16:36:49 howeyc: it should be published soon. Probably in a month. 16:36:59 stassats`: you provide two asd 16:37:17 -!- Jordan_U [~jordan@216.57.70.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:37:32 :license ("MIT" "BSD" "GPL" "PD" "for your mama only")? 16:38:03 pjb: I have a question about a post of yours on cll, what is the difference between array and vector? https://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/b8edc6364c0dad75 16:38:03 It's better to provide two asd: (:depends-on :system-x-mit) (:depends-on :system-x-gpl) 16:38:20 better for what? 16:38:25 seems rather silly 16:38:41 So that you can explicit what licence you want to use it with. 16:38:56 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:38:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:39:10 howeyc: vector is an array 16:39:21 Jordan_U [~jordan@216.57.70.194] has joined #lisp 16:40:06 that's what I thought, but reading the post it seemed as if there was a difference 16:40:16 array is not a vector 16:40:39 vector is a one-dimensional array 16:41:15 oh, i see 16:41:48 that's all regarding CL, of course 16:42:32 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 10.0.1/20120314211133]] 16:42:56 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 16:43:12 xjrn [~innocuous@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:13 hrs [~textual@ip-128-239-135-42.v4.wm.edu] has joined #lisp 16:46:01 CrazyThinker` [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 16:46:38 -!- Jordan_U [~jordan@216.57.70.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:47:31 Jordan_U [~jordan@216.57.70.194] has joined #lisp 16:47:46 lindes [~user@91.112.1.250] has joined #lisp 16:49:19 Xach: you there? 16:49:25 hi 16:49:30 hi 16:49:30 What did I break? 16:49:35 It wasn't me, I blame the authors. 16:49:35 nothing. 16:49:39 phew 16:49:48 Just wondered if you wanted to have a look at my current toy :-) 16:49:57 Xach: that means you haven't been hacking hard enough! 16:50:33 loke: yes 16:50:38 It's sort of something like MANIFEST, but without any regards for anything but SBCL :-) 16:50:40 with example templates! 16:50:44 And, it's prettier, a tleast I think so 16:50:54 And yes, it uses my template system :-) 16:51:13 I'd love some feedback on it 16:51:14 http://code.google.com/p/docbrowser/source/checkout 16:51:14 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@50.Red-88-11-24.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:20 -!- hrs [~textual@ip-128-239-135-42.v4.wm.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:51:53 -!- Jordan_U [~jordan@216.57.70.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:52:27 loke: do you have an instance running i could try? 16:52:48 Um... yeah, but... Hmm. 16:52:50 Acutally, no 16:52:53 :-( 16:52:55 Jordan_U [~jordan@216.57.70.194] has joined #lisp 16:53:04 -!- lindes [~user@91.112.1.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:06 Hold, let's see if I can easily open the firewall 16:54:59 Try 115.66.85.121:8080 16:55:38 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:55:54 cool 16:56:41 I want to make it prettier 16:56:53 But my html and css design skills are very close to zero 16:57:32 do you feel the #lisp effect on your site? 16:57:38 yeah 16:57:39 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.202.245] has joined #lisp 16:57:53 Thankfully, I designed my template system for performance 16:57:56 :-) 16:59:16 loke: http://115.66.85.121:8080/show_package?id=KEYWORD goes strange after COLINC 16:59:44 for variables, that is 16:59:49 stassats`: Works fine here. Are you the one who uses Opera? 16:59:55 i am, yes 17:00:03 Ah OK. Perhaps it's an opera issue 17:00:20 Maybe because there are so many symbols in KEYWORD 17:00:29 Perhaps I should filter out that package in the list anyway :-) 17:00:39 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:00:56 poor KEYWORD has so many special cases already 17:01:09 Haha 17:01:33 I already so some filtering in the "specialises" section for a class. 17:01:45 I don't include INITIALIZE-INSTANCE 17:01:51 And I'll skip a fe wmore 17:02:27 I want to be able to hide/reveal the details on every entry in the list as well 17:03:09 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.238.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:03:11 Also, I intend to remove from the function list all functions that are declared as reader/writer/accessor on a class. 17:03:23 (since they will go together with the class definition) 17:03:37 ehhhhh 17:03:41 eeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 17:04:06 loke: that's quite cool 17:04:11 good work 17:04:37 loke: i fed it to w3 validator, it complains about gazillions of unclosed divs 17:04:44 hmm 17:04:52 weird. 17:05:00 I probably only missed a single one though 17:05:15 (lots of repititions thanks to the template) 17:07:04 stassats`: It seems correct. Do you have any idea what part could be wrong? Looks correct to me: http://code.google.com/p/docbrowser/source/browse/src/template/show_package.tmpl 17:07:14 syntaxfree [c814a402@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.20.164.2] has joined #lisp 17:07:29 http://code.google.com/p/docbrowser/source/browse/src/template/show_package.tmpl#74 17:07:47 c0atz1n_ [~c0atz1n@189.224.30.53] has joined #lisp 17:08:02 ah yes 17:08:29 do they have paredit, but for html? 17:08:48 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.64.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:08:50 stassats`: There 17:08:52 reload now 17:09:02 Does it validate now? 17:09:18 fixed 17:09:23 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@c-98-201-107-177.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:09:27 didn't validate, but the problem disappeared 17:10:21 Good 17:10:22 thanks 17:10:22 :-) 17:10:32 This document was successfully checked as HTML5! 17:10:46 Good 17:10:49 :-) 17:10:58 I want to add more features. Anything you'd like to see? 17:13:06 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 17:13:31 antgreen [~user@out-on-182.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:00 search 17:14:08 ah of course 17:14:09 ideally type-as-you-go! 17:14:15 silly me for no thinking of that 17:14:32 Xach: that'll be the next thing I do I think 17:15:25 -!- ngz [~user@198.111.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:16:02 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:17:08 pnq [~nick@ACA2075C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:17:29 wo 17:18:47 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-116-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:06 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:08 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:19:19 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:20:51 m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.37] has joined #lisp 17:22:37 Xach: How can I check if a symbol is exported? 17:23:20 loke: check all packages in which it is accessible 17:23:31 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:23:31 hmm 17:23:36 (find-package (symbol-name symbol) package) => symbol, :external 17:24:22 (find-all-symbols (symbol-name symbol)) might even be helpful! 17:25:10 hmm 17:25:24 your frst example... it's not right. 17:25:33 How so? 17:25:33 FIND-PACKAGE takes only one argument 17:25:43 oh, sorry. I meant to write FIND-SYMBOL. 17:25:53 ikki [~ikki@189.247.201.36] has joined #lisp 17:25:59 And when I re-read it to check for errors, my faulty eyes read FIND-SYMBOL. 17:26:17 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:48 oh, i guess (symbol-name ...) is not needed, as it takes a designator. 17:26:48 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 17:26:50 OK, so the solution is: 17:26:51 (eq (nth-value 1 (find-symbol (symbol-name sym) (symbol-package sym))) :external) 17:26:56 that's just fugly :-) 17:27:00 loke: not necessarily. 17:27:12 loke: a symbol could be exported from some package that is not its home package. 17:27:26 Oh 17:27:42 Right 17:27:48 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-219.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:27:57 find-all-symbols isn't helpful after all. 17:28:02 do-external-symbols would work (inefficiently) 17:28:14 ack - no it wouldn't 17:28:22 pppppp [~pppppp@78.142.9.74] has joined #lisp 17:29:19 ngz [~user@198.111.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:11 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:23 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-121-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:32:15 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:33:24 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:33:41 There. 17:33:53 Now it doesn't display internal symbols in the "specialises" section 17:35:07 Here's the resulting code. Ugly? 17:35:08 http://code.google.com/p/docbrowser/source/browse/src/docbrowser.lisp#57 17:36:15 -!- Flatlander [~tomppa@b27.kiulu.jyu.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:38:06 loke: put it in a function 17:38:34 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:54 that's some nice lisp loke 17:38:59 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 17:39:04 (defun externalp (symbol &optional (package (symbol-package symbol))) ...) or something 17:39:14 Yeah, good point 17:39:33 guymann: thanks. I'm doing this stuff to learn :-) 17:40:32 Also I need it, since I like exploring API's :-) 17:42:26 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 17:43:39 Xach: is everything OK for May 17th? 17:44:07 Also, I'm still trying to get a different room where we could have videoconference for a duplex meeting with Montreal. 17:44:43 Xach: i thought most (all?) functions working on symbols defaulted to *package*, not to the symbol-package 17:46:29 Fare: yes 17:47:08 stassats`: very true. i don't think this is like standard CL functions, though. 17:47:24 stassats`: it's more like "is this symbol external in a given package" and the symbol's home is a useful default. 17:47:28 it'd be less confusing if it were 17:47:45 Thanks guys. Time for me to sleep now. 17:47:55 the symbol also might not be present in *package* at all, though I guess the answer of "no" would still be the same. 17:48:01 Xach: Eventually I might ask you to put this think in QL, if you don't mind? 17:48:36 loke: if it's sbcl-only by design, I might hesitate. 17:49:00 Well, it's not actually 17:49:16 It's just that you won't get function parameters and specialisations 17:49:34 (I'm doing #+sbcl on those and just return NIL if not) 17:49:53 So it should work on other platforms too, but without that information (I haven't tested yet though) 17:50:31 It's just 2 different places, and I'm sure other platforms have similar features as SB-INTROSPECT? 17:50:36 Fare: I haven't forgotten to mail you a topic, I am still trying to think of what the topic will be. 17:50:47 loke: you can see how swank gets that info 17:50:59 Ah yes of course 17:51:20 would it make sense to perhaps even add a dependency on swank? 17:51:20 Xach: "using qlmapper for fun and profit" 17:52:50 stassats`: that is my first inclination 17:52:55 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:52:58 loke: sure. plenty of libraries do. 17:53:29 stassats`: though probably broader, like "what you, yes YOU, can do to improve CL metadata" 17:53:31 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:54:48 -!- antgreen [~user@out-on-182.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:14 -!- ainm [~ainm@86.Red-79-146-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:56:11 Xach: OK, cool. I'll look into that and let you know. 17:56:25 I'd really like a version of the SBCL reader (or some other reader) that can give exact file positions for various objects in the source. 17:56:43 BigEndian [~hurp@li230-104.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:56:46 Although maybe I can just figure out how to do it like slime does. 17:56:51 Xach: pjb's reader does that 17:56:58 Xach: (i think) 17:57:27 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643]] 17:57:56 Xach: SB-INTROSPECT gives you that information 17:58:21 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:58:29 anyway 17:58:31 sleep time 17:58:37 H4ns: I'm worried about the disconnect between just reading and reading and evaluating/eval-when stuff 17:59:01 What I have done, though, is gotten way out in front of anything I am ready to write, so am just worrying about stuff that probably doesn't matter in practice. 17:59:26 I would like to have a CL code search engine that has very nicely htmlized code to reference in fine-grained ways. 17:59:45 Xach: woah 17:59:47 great idea 17:59:49 Xach: it'd be very nice if we'd be able to process CL with CL :) 18:01:27 H4ns: I think SBCL is a great processor, but I don't know if it could be easily persuaded to dump out the info I think I need. Maybe it already does. 18:02:11 xach: eval-when can frob the readtable, so in the general case you can't read a file without executing that. 18:05:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:05:50 assuming sane code uses named-readtables 18:06:03 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 18:06:10 H4ns: it can be used to do that. I found a bug in ccl with file-position, but it should be corrected by now. Not checked yet. 18:06:14 i handled named-readtables:in-readtable specifically in when reading code 18:06:30 s/in// 18:07:07 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:08:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:08:09 -!- pppppp [~pppppp@78.142.9.74] has quit [] 18:08:43 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@221-73-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:51 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:03 gabot [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:09:04 jsibelius [~pppppp@78.142.9.74] has joined #lisp 18:10:27 ainm [~ainm@86.Red-79-146-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:07 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.219] has joined #lisp 18:11:53 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2075C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:12:12 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Quit: Out of this 3D] 18:12:19 -!- c0atz1n_ [~c0atz1n@189.224.30.53] has quit [Quit: 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tensorpudding__ [~michael@99.32.61.203] has joined #lisp 18:23:32 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 18:24:27 something very strange happens with asdf 18:24:38 asdf is asdfing itself? 18:25:26 it complains it can't do ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST, i call it myself, get the same error, but when i quit the debugger, and run the same ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST, it creates them 18:25:53 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:15 stassats`: something to do with *d-p-d* ? 18:26:23 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:39 fe[nl]ix: that's the only hunch, but it appears to be an absolute pathname 18:26:57 i'll try to merge the pathname and see any differences 18:29:05 *stassats`* encounters no difference 18:29:28 although *d-p-d* are different 18:30:52 "i think i've found a bug in SBCL" is not funny anymore 18:32:08 -!- jsibelius [~pppppp@78.142.9.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:32:46 but i surely did, and, phew, it's not my bug 18:32:52 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2075C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:33:53 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@94.144.63.14] has joined #lisp 18:36:25 *stassats`* starts to question his finding since CCL demonstrates it too 18:36:49 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:50 *hefner* blames teh unicodes 18:37:17 stassats`: that means your bug vortex follows you around 18:37:29 (let ((*default-pathname-defaults* #p"/tmp/foo")) (probe-file #p"/")) => NIL 18:37:49 stassats`: what would you expect? 18:37:51 i don't see that probe-file says it merges path names 18:38:09 I think it's in a table elsewhere. 18:38:35 in any case, it's might confusing when this happens 18:38:50 http://l1sp.org/cl/19.2.3 18:39:35 I sometimes set *default-pathname-defaults* to #p"/path/to/templates/foo.html" and then pass templates like #p"front-page". 18:40:09 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@94.144.63.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:41:01 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129057010.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 18:41:01 well, that's just means that the bug is in ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST, not in probe-file 18:41:01 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0704.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:41:12 it should work fine with such *d-p-d* 18:41:50 (let ((*default-pathname-defaults* #p"/tmp/foo")) (ensure-directories-exist #p"/tmp/bar/")) complains "Can't create directory /" 18:42:09 until last year CMUCL didn't respect *default-pathname-defaults* in a couple situations, and Scieneer still doesn't. 18:42:44 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 18:42:53 stassats`: same with CCL? 18:43:02 no, all other implementations work fine 18:43:15 interesting 18:43:21 well, except for CMUCL, of course 18:43:43 and for ECL, but ECL is just silly, as usual 18:43:57 it says "Could not create directory "/tmp/fo" 18:44:11 "Explanation: File exists." 18:45:07 what it does, it creates a directory named "FO", and then complains that it exists 18:45:14 you can't get any sillier than that 18:45:19 "fo"? 18:45:25 sic 18:45:32 not foo, and not bar 18:45:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:45:50 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-047-114.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:45 [SLB] [~slabua@host92-170-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:46:45 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host92-170-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 18:46:45 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 18:48:31 that is extremely silly 18:48:39 tried on a more newer ECL, now it complains that "/tmp/bar/fo" doesn't exist 18:48:45 andresgsaravia [~andres@wabis.mda.cinvestav.mx] has joined #lisp 18:48:57 while creating "/tmp/fo/" 18:49:06 pnq [~nick@ACA2075C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:49:45 If they get merge-pathnames right, how could e-d-e go so wrong? 18:50:10 i don't know, i'm used to ECL braking in the most unusual places 18:50:18 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:50:18 SBCL, though, too. 18:50:55 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@50.Red-88-11-24.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:10 visar [~visar@77.29.125.105] has joined #lisp 18:51:23 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 18:51:33 ensure-directories-exist in sbcl is just checks for "/" to exists, which gets merged to "/foo", and it doesn't exist it tires to create "/", checks again, it still doesn't exist, and it complains 18:51:50 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 18:52:20 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:52:23 and ECL arrives at "fo" probably because it messes up C strings 18:52:43 or something similar 18:53:11 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.76.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:54:30 man, i can't get any work done with those bugs popping up 18:54:38 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.73.10] has joined #lisp 18:56:16 chturne [~chturne@host86-136-158-113.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:59:09 -!- visar [~visar@77.29.125.105] has left #lisp 19:01:29 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@50.Red-88-11-24.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 19:01:41 ravster [~user@184.175.28.107] has joined #lisp 19:01:51 Hello everyone. 19:03:08 pnq1 [~nick@AC8342A7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:39 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2075C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:04:51 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.30.53] has joined #lisp 19:06:35 adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-252-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:54 *stassats`* filed a bug report with a patch, will need to wait until the freeze is over to commit 19:07:16 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-71-77.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 19:07:23 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-71-77.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 19:07:25 lp 980169 19:07:26 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/980169 19:09:10 -!- gabot [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:35 gabot [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:09:49 snearch [~snearch@f053015031.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:11:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-196.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:12:44 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 19:17:24 stassats`: your patch doesn't look right to me -- it seems that it would break (let ((*d-p-d* "/tmp/foo")) (ensure-directories-exist "bar/")) 19:18:27 creates /tmp/bar2 fine 19:18:31 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:18:35 /tmp/bar/ 19:18:57 shows what I know 19:19:42 oh, sorry, there's a merge-pathnames higher up 19:19:47 it's just not shown in the diff that it merges pathanmes first 19:19:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-163.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:19:52 yeah 19:24:39 Harag [~phil@dsl-243-251-145.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:25:49 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:27:26 -!- pnq1 [~nick@AC8342A7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:28:42 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-243-251-145.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 19:30:22 pnq [~nick@AC8342A7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:36 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:32:09 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.73.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:33:14 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-047-114.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:34:06 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:34:45 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@50.Red-88-11-24.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:41 *maxm--* was profiling some 19:37:54 large chunk of my qt overhead is sb-ext:cancel-finalization actually 19:38:04 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:38:50 coz qt uses hash on returned pointers, with finalizers set to delete underlaying qt object 19:39:31 but if that object is deleted manually with delete operator, it does cancel-finalization on it 19:40:05 which uses (delete sb-impl::**finalizer-store**), and also hold a lock 19:41:40 which seems not to scale too well, when there are a lot of objects awaiting finalization 19:42:12 possibly you should just make the finalizer do nothing instead of canceling finalization. 19:42:25 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0704.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:43:02 diginet [~diginet@adsl-69-153-135-2.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:08 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-163.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44:08 -!- kpreid 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#lisp 20:05:55 -!- Widoa [~Widoa@78-73-117-181-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:06:25 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.201.36] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:07:00 cpinera [~cpinera@134.134.139.76] has joined #lisp 20:07:49 ikki [~ikki@189.247.201.36] has joined #lisp 20:09:19 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.201.36] has quit [Client Quit] 20:10:06 where should I look at if I want to inspect raw memory on sbcl? 20:10:16 sb-sys:sap-ref-x 20:10:38 thanks. 20:10:54 and memory of what? 20:11:00 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:11:09 cffi returned random memory 20:11:23 a heap walker, is what I need. for debugging something. 20:11:30 why not use cffi accessors then? 20:11:36 cffi:mem-ref 20:11:46 that's giving me an answer I don't expect. 20:11:55 so I want to have a dump of a bunch of bytes. 20:11:58 huangjs` [~user@200.54.109.17] has joined #lisp 20:12:05 to see if the struct being returned is different from what I am expecting. 20:12:22 cffi:mem-ref gives you what you don't expect? 20:12:28 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:43 I get 0, in the slot of what ought to be a string. 20:12:48 Kynes`_ [~GTSpyVan1@75.14.218.116] has joined #lisp 20:12:53 DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-14-2.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:57 I'm wondering if the class definition has changed or something. 20:13:14 I just want to see what the general memory layout of what I'm looking at looks like. 20:13:26 well, sb-sys:sap-ref won't give you anything different, cffi:mem-ref will use it 20:13:29 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.202.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:13:33 I see. 20:13:42 how could I dump a region of say, 100 bytes? 20:13:46 -!- syntaxfree [c814a402@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.20.164.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:13:48 <|3b|> stassats`: any thoughts on best way to handle background threads trying to send output to closed slime connections, aside from just rebinding output to console before starting long-lived threads? 20:14:22 -!- Kynes` [~GTSpyVan1@adsl-75-0-9-114.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:14:40 |3b|: i'm not on par with what is done right now with threads in slime 20:14:53 <|3b|> ok 20:15:02 -!- necros` is now known as necros 20:15:36 (which was somewhat changed recently and i haven't fixed enough bugs to get to know it) 20:15:53 meh. just gonna loop with sap-ref-8 and print what gdb prints. 20:15:56 good enough =) 20:16:41 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:47 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 20:17:19 cffi:mem-ref with unsigned-char type would've done the same 20:18:28 yes, that's what I'm doing. I just thought there was a stock way to do it. 20:18:43 old reflexes, I guess. 20:20:05 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-252-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 20:20:50 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:21:20 i guess you could open the computer test and use a logic probe on memory modules too 20:21:25 s/test/case/ 20:21:30 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:14 Sorry took so long to respond.. my keyboard is actually a 16 penny nail with some copper windings around it... it takes a while to type :P 20:26:30 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:26:33 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:29:38 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-026-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:31:27 _class_ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:02 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01104a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:07 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:39 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:35:01 -!- _class_ is now known as __class__ 20:36:14 -!- ainm [~ainm@86.Red-79-146-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:36:33 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38:08 ainm [~ainm@100.Red-83-33-84.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:21 I am stumped. sigh. 20:39:27 more coffee required. 20:41:00 slyrus [~chatzilla@12.132.197.125] has joined #lisp 20:41:16 -!- clintm [~cmoore@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:41:23 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:41:32 -!- two- [~textual@67.23.193.215] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:42:14 did you forget to dereference some pointers or something? 20:42:36 is it at all possible - should I even investigate - that a call to use-foreign-library doesn't automatically load up the various segments? 20:43:05 I have a slot in my defcstruct that is a :string 20:43:10 if I do that, it comes out "" 20:43:16 if I do :pointer, it comes out 0 20:43:19 it really shouldn't. 20:43:30 I run the very same function in C and it gives me the appropriate answer. 20:44:46 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0704.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:44:47 null-terminated string? that would explain 0 20:44:56 clintm [~cmoore@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:46 lichtblau: around? 20:46:25 you asking if it is a null terminated string? yes, it is. (it's a C string). 20:46:44 then "" and 0 are consistent 20:46:44 It's such a wildly wrong error that I must be doing something completely wrong. so I won't really involve youa t this point. 20:46:49 (yes, they are) 20:46:53 [SLB] [~slabua@host92-170-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:46:54 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host92-170-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 20:46:54 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 20:47:08 are you sure that your definition of the struct is correct? 20:47:11 at one point, I was just wondering if the .h file definition had changed, and I was associating the string slot to some now unused reserved slot or something. 20:47:14 stassats`: not really, but still, it makes sense to consider 0 as "" 20:47:17 but that doesn't seem to be the case. 20:47:41 *doesn't seem*. ... yes, that's exactly what I'm going to re-investigate now. 20:47:45 it must be a stale definition. 20:47:45 -!- cpinera [~cpinera@134.134.139.76] has left #lisp 20:48:00 pkhuong: not really what? 20:48:14 hjs [~user@200.54.109.17] has joined #lisp 20:48:22 he's saying a null string isn't equivalent to an empty string. 20:48:33 one will be a memory pointer pointing to null, while the other will be a null pointer. 20:48:38 jsibelius [~pppppp@78.142.9.74] has joined #lisp 20:48:39 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:48:43 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:03 in any case, it's all fubar and I will deal with the crap on my floor myself =) 20:49:08 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@31.163.208.29] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:49:10 you did say that it's :pointer, so, it's a pointer to 0 20:49:23 stassats`: null isn't a pointer to 0. 20:49:34 where did null pointer come from? 20:49:35 so, strictly speaking, it's not a pointer to "" 20:49:47 i wasn't talking about null pointers at all 20:49:55 stassats`: ah, it's the pointed-to value that's 0, not the pointer. 20:50:27 _class_ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:50 that's what i assumed from what Shaftoe said 20:51:33 indeed. But like I said, something smells like rotten fish here. this shouldn't be happening. One real question though: is it possible some of my segments aren't being loaded? 20:51:40 slyrus: ? 20:51:54 minion: advice on compiler? 20:51:54 #11907: Looking for a compiler bug is the strategy of LAST resort. LAST resort. 20:52:10 lichtblau: is there an easy way to find a (particular) node in a cxml-rng schema? 20:52:27 stassats`: that's for me? I didn't mean it as a bug. I meant it as in does the library loader load all segments by default? 20:52:40 iow: is that something I can count on? 20:53:02 that was for you, and i don't know whether that's possible 20:53:57 I'm being dense here, I suppose, but what is a node in this context? I mean, if a node is a thing in your XML document, what does that have to do with the grammar you validated the document against? 20:54:00 alright. ok. I'm asking because the function returns a bunch of prebuilt class names (NSObject etc.) which clearly reside in the data segment. So maybe, just maybe, not having the appropriate segment loaded it was acting strange. But that's a very unlikely scenario. I'll just continue following the smell of fish. 20:54:50 it may be possible, i just never heard of it, but that's because i don't write in C 20:54:54 -!- _class_ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55:03 even less so in Objective C on Mac OS 20:55:04 (actually, I'm afraid I know the answer, and it's called "don't use RNG") 20:55:25 alright. thanks for the time. 20:55:26 just look at all the hoops that DTD compatibility jumps through to uniquely identify stuff 20:55:34 so you shouldn't use me as a source 20:56:33 lichtblau: heh 20:56:40 or are we (introspectively) looking for a "pattern" within the grammar itself? 20:56:44 right 20:57:06 trying to debug another regexp issue. could be my data, could be the regexp, could be, say, cl-ppcre... 20:57:42 I want to see what the cxml-rng grammar thinks the pattern is and see how it constructs the cl-ppcre regex from that 20:58:13 and I was just beginning to like this RNG stuff only to find that nobody uses it anymore :( 20:59:36 there are a bunch of definitions in the schema object, but I'm not sure what the best way to access that data is 20:59:46 I think it's like Lisp. Not dead, still fun, but smells funny. And then there's XML Schema, which is like Java: Industry standard, many features, not fun to use. 20:59:48 no obvious external functions relating to the definitions 21:00:00 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-200.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00:36 find-definition? 21:00:44 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 21:01:09 e.g., sure, that would be nice 21:02:06 Also, trace CXML-TYPES::PARSE-PATTERN. It (intentionally) does something different from its normal counterpart, PPCRE::PARSE-STRING, but the comparison can be helpful. 21:02:22 ok 21:02:27 I don't know whether FIND-DEFINITION is useful, but it exists, I think. 21:02:40 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:31 asvil [~asvil@178.120.107.125] has joined #lisp 21:03:36 it's not exported, and I don't understand the difference between a schema and a grammar 21:03:40 -!- clintm [~cmoore@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 21:05:20 gah, too much contact with logical-pathname's makes you insane 21:05:33 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-116-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:05:37 should they be renamed to illogical-pathnames then? 21:07:05 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053015031.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:07:09 that would be a good thing 21:07:18 snearch [~snearch@f053015031.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:07:18 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 21:07:32 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 21:08:21 fmu` [UNKNOWN@an9iex1i.u10r.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:34 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:35 lonstein_ [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:40 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:08:40 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:08:40 -!- fmu [UNKNOWN@unaffiliated/fmu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:08:40 -!- bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:08:40 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m83-185-142-102.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:08:40 -!- samebchase [samuel@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:08:41 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:08:41 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:08:44 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:08:55 samebchase [samuel@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:21 add^_ [~add^_^@m83-185-142-102.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:09:40 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 21:10:31 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@50.Red-88-11-24.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:13:38 slyrus: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128927 maybe? 21:14:02 I don't want to paste the sample output; it still looks scary. But maybe with a slime inspector hooked up it could be useful... 21:14:25 You're right, of course, find-definition isn't for end users. :-( 21:17:26 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.127] has quit [Quit: Offline] 21:17:47 stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.29.67] has joined #lisp 21:18:39 [SLB] [~slabua@host92-170-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:18:39 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host92-170-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 21:18:39 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 21:19:37 -!- fmu` is now known as fmu 21:21:51 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-22-210.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:50 -!- Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:24:06 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-237-8.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:11 hmm. It appears my problem is in the land of 64/32 bit cohabitation and confusion. 21:26:11 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-245-126.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:26:15 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:26:17 -!- EarlGray^ is now known as EarlGray 21:26:25 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053015031.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:26:36 ... perhaps. 21:27:50 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.50.115] has joined #lisp 21:28:36 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.50.115] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:12 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.50.115] has joined #lisp 21:29:24 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:29:47 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:29:57 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.50.115] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:29 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.50.115] has joined #lisp 21:31:08 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.50.115] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:10 dpb. Pronunciation: [,duh'pib] or [,duh'puhb] or ['dee'pee'bee] 21:31:28 the hyperspec is amazing 21:31:40 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.50.115] has joined #lisp 21:32:24 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.50.115] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:32:57 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.50.115] has joined #lisp 21:33:28 thanks lichtblau 21:35:23 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:36:26 <|3b|> stassats`: any better way to tell if a connection is closed than (member connection *connections*) or checking the socket-fd for -1? 21:38:05 -!- cvandusen [~user@68-90-30-246.ded.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: Yow! Legally-imposed CULTURE-reduction is CABBAGE-BRAINED!] 21:39:21 (member connection *connections*) sounds alright 21:39:28 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:59 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: brb] 21:40:16 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.30.53] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:40:16 *|3b|* will try that then 21:41:24 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:50 -!- rme [rme@8CB7B04A.47C9A248.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 21:44:50 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.137.11] has quit [Quit: rme] 21:47:41 two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:51 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-121-223-199-47.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:49:16 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.57] has joined #lisp 21:50:53 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:50:54 rme [~rme@50.43.137.11] has joined #lisp 21:51:34 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m83-185-142-102.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:52:18 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:44 *|3b|* wonders what swank::update-indentation/delta-for-emacs is trying to do with deleted packages 21:55:49 <|3b|> or maybe it just hit a really unlucky timing while a package was being redefined, since the symbol in the backtrace looks OK in the inspector 21:56:05 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:13 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-200.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:56:17 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:50 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:59:13 CampinSam [~Sam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:59:19 ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:01:12 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:01:26 _class_ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:40 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-108-3-159-149.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:02:09 -!- _class_ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:15 -!- huangjs [~user@200.54.109.17] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:16 -!- huangjs` [~user@200.54.109.17] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:16 -!- hjs [~user@200.54.109.17] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:39 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0704.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:08 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:04:20 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:02 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:16 pinged [~joe@86-46-141-57-dynamic.b-ras1.rtd.sligo.eircom.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:29 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-200.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:39 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:08:33 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B3262AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:30 _class_ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:55 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p50829553.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:11:45 clintm [~cmoore@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:13 -!- _class_ is now known as __class__ 22:13:27 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:13:39 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:13:47 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:27 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:14:30 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:14 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:55 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-200.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:19:28 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01104a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: good night] 22:20:26 _class_ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:10 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:23:56 -!- _class_ is now known as __class__ 22:25:49 Stassats`: not sure if you care or not, but I've finally figured out the smell of rotting fish that was coming from behind my wall. This line says it all "The old functions and structures are deprecated in 32-bit and absent in 64-bit mode.". 22:26:06 stassats`: so it's solved. huzzah \o/ 22:26:42 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.57] has joined #lisp 22:27:05 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:25 (so the problem was that in my c applicaiton, I was building 32 bit only, and it was giving me a slightly different data structure, and my lisp image was x86-64, giving me a same sized structure with a whole new semantic meaning) 22:28:21 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 22:28:45 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:28:57 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 22:30:50 Fare [~Fare@216.239.55.82] has joined #lisp 22:31:04 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has left #lisp 22:32:33 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.107.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:33:08 -!- CrazyEddy [~burghalpe@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:33:45 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.30.53] has joined #lisp 22:35:31 mensch [~mensch@c-67-189-240-148.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:57 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:38:20 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:40:23 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 22:40:50 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:42:04 -!- jsibelius [~pppppp@78.142.9.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:44:56 -!- ainm [~ainm@100.Red-83-33-84.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ((call/cc call/cc) (call/cc call/cc))] 22:46:08 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:21 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:46:38 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:48:03 CrazyEddy [~fibrochon@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 22:48:21 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.29.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:49:56 -!- Fare [~Fare@216.239.55.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:53:35 stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.29.67] has joined #lisp 22:53:37 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:46 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 22:58:20 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:01:27 ikki [~ikki@fixed-203-69-117.iusacell.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:21 snits [~snits@75-167-15-187.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:06:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:06:07 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:10:50 -!- clintm [~cmoore@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:12:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@fixed-203-69-117.iusacell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:12:53 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:14:48 is there a way to see the definition of a compiled system function? 23:14:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:10 Do you use SLIME? 23:15:25 yeah but I haven't bothered to learn it yet 23:15:36 M-. function-name-here 23:15:46 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.50.115] has quit [Quit: Offline] 23:16:55 I guess I haven't even set it up to the point where I can do that 23:17:06 I got a "Not connected." message 23:17:36 clintm [~cmoore@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:13 you need to start slime first 23:20:41 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 23:24:49 -!- naiv_ [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-211-107.w109-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:26:13 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:41 -!- chupish [182c5af4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.44.90.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:27:02 docAvid [~user@74-94-233-157-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:51 Hi all 23:29:32 So I updated my Debian, which updated my SBCL, which then caused it to give me all sorts of errors about various fasls that were compiled for the older version... I chose "Try recompile" on all of these and that worked, but it was a lot - is there a better way? 23:31:34 <|3b|> http://www.cliki.net/asdf has some code you can put in .sbclrc to help fix that 23:32:35 <|3b|> though unless you have ancient asdf or reconfigured it, it should store .fasl per version anyway 23:35:43 Thanks |3b| - I have the asdf installed from Debian, (asdf:asdf-version) reports 2.019, Debian calls it 2.20-1 23:36:07 ikki [~ikki@fixed-203-69-117.iusacell.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:28 Froward [~uh-oh@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:45 -!- optikalmouse [~user@76.9.199.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:21 -!- ngz [~user@198.111.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:42:49 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:57 -!- dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 23:50:53 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 23:52:07 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:53:49 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:55:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@fixed-203-69-117.iusacell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:57:59 Can anyone point me to a definition and examples of "procedural representation"? I'm going through the "essentials of programming languages" book and having difficulty with this concept, and google isn't much help. 23:58:45 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.219] has joined #lisp