00:07:06 rme [~rme@50.43.157.220] has joined #lisp 00:09:53 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-16-203.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:12:01 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-16-60.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:39 gcentauri [~user@76-85-192-184.cable.inebraska.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:34 *maxm-* just realized there is house season 8 00:14:43 coding gonna be on hold for a while 00:23:57 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has joined #lisp 00:30:09 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:19 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:39:19 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 00:40:08 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA224FB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:52:46 -!- mikos [~mikos@188-223-31-58.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 00:56:42 -!- asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:59:01 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:04:46 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-50.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 01:06:37 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5BD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:10 -!- Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.108.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:16:27 fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:3838:e219:8a86:711] has joined #lisp 01:17:48 -!- rme [rme@ED891AF2.E6A1271C.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 01:17:48 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.157.220] has quit [Quit: rme] 01:20:14 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:23:07 coldpizza72i [~anthonybe@coldpizza721.student.rit.edu] has joined #lisp 01:23:18 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:23:36 any idea why I'm getting this error "The function CONC is undefined." with "(CONC '(rest x) '(first x))" 01:23:46 isn't it a function 01:23:53 Because there's no function named CONC. 01:23:56 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B0DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:24:06 Perhaos you want cons or nconc? 01:24:17 But not nconc on literals! 01:24:31 no, most probably coldpizza72i wants CONS 01:24:53 i want to concatenate so i don't get the dots 01:25:05 then you want LIST 01:25:14 minion: please tell coldpizza72i about PCL 01:25:15 coldpizza72i: please see PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 01:25:25 and to read that book 01:25:27 coldpizza72i: (concatenate 'list '(rest x) '(first x)) 01:26:04 or browse the dictionaries in CLHS. 01:27:31 i have been reading and people like here insist conc is a function http://home.comcast.net/~oneelkruns/plisp_manual.pdf 01:28:28 And WHATCHAMACALLIT is a function too, I can assure you. 01:28:36 And I also have a SNOC function. 01:28:59 coldpizza72i: did you read the first page? 01:29:16 it states "I strongly encourage you not to actually use this to learn Lisp!" 01:29:16 01:29:48 coldpizza72i: you see it's to solve this kind of problems that Common Lisp has been invented. 01:30:07 It's also for a dialect of Lisp called P-Lisp, which is not Common Lisp. 01:30:15 oh 01:30:32 coldpizza72i: see http://cliki.net/ for a list of CL implementations. 01:30:46 coldpizza72i: read the book minion linked 01:30:49 and for CL tutorials, books, libraries and referencs. 01:32:16 kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 01:33:21 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:43 hi folks, (floatp 1) => nil but when I set type of a slot to float and input 1 as the value, it doesn't error, is it appropriate to set type to float when there is the possibility that the slot value will be integer or should i use real? 01:34:03 kenanb: use real. 01:34:17 type declarations are advisory, they don't necessarily have any effect. 01:34:36 type declaration in CL are promises you make to the compiler. 01:34:52 You are promising you won't be putting any integer there. 01:35:10 What do you think the compiler will think of you, if you keep breaking your promises? 01:35:58 pnq [~nick@AC8124E4.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:36:20 pjb: i see, but shouldn't it error if compiler made optimizations for that slot to be the declared type? 01:36:32 Anything can happen indeed. 01:36:52 foremost if you (declaim (optimize (safety 0))). 01:37:14 Perhaps you can set 1, but you read back the bit pattern as float? 01:37:23 kenanb: there are no optimizations for clos slots 01:37:39 in what implementation? 01:37:58 pjb: nope I read back as int if I set it to int 01:38:01 in any implementation 01:38:23 which is the behavior that I need 01:38:30 sbcl I use 01:38:42 anyway I'll use real as suggested 01:38:54 -!- coldpizza72i [~anthonybe@coldpizza721.student.rit.edu] has quit [Quit: coldpizza72i] 01:39:14 specifying types for slots is a bit pointless 01:39:37 unsigned-byte means from 0 to some number I am not able to guess, right? 01:39:50 to infinity and beyond 01:40:30 clhs unsigned-byte 01:40:39 dead again? 01:40:42 specbot is resting 01:41:02 minion: do you feel tired? 01:41:03 here i am, brain the size of a planet, and all i do is answer your silly questions all day... maybe you have time to feel tired 01:42:39 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:42:50 rme [~rme@50.43.157.220] has joined #lisp 01:43:25 stassats`: there are lots of slots with varying type of values in my class, I guess declaring types can at least prove some documentation value for others to read even if it is pointless for optimization:) 01:43:50 Besides, you could write a meta class that optimize them. 01:44:01 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-104.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:45:04 pjb: I can't even write a decent parser that reads a simple photometry file yet :) 01:45:14 you saw the code 01:45:29 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-104.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:45:34 kenanb: the key to write a descent parser, is to start by writing the grammar! 01:46:11 cafesofie [~user@ool-18e4c9a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:27 Then use a parser generator. Here is an example: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/rdp/ 01:46:28 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-16-203.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:23 there were four different versions of the standard through 1986 to 2002, huge revisions in between, that made things a little messier 01:48:06 Not messier, just "in progress". 01:49:14 jake___ [~jake@c-71-198-241-152.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:43 ok, this is stupid: :type (integer 1 2) 01:49:52 extremely stupid 01:50:25 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:29 -!- mirTapir [vutral@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has quit [Changing host] 01:50:29 mirTapir [vutral@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:50:56 kenanb: that's a very good type 01:51:26 -!- mirTapir is now known as MrTapyr 01:51:41 unless it's not the type you want 01:52:36 ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 01:52:54 stassats`: what is the type I want? 01:53:10 kenanb: i would ask kenanb 01:53:47 I guess misunderstood the sentence :) 01:53:48 anyway 01:54:23 pjb: I always wondered the COM.INFORMATIMAGO.RDP.EXAMPLE style of library namings, I guess gigamonkeys also uses that kind of names, is it a convention? 01:56:10 nope, names in his github repo are not like that, I guess I seen them in PCL 01:57:01 :com.gigamonkeys.email-db yep, PCL 01:57:59 kenanb: yes, it's a convention. 01:58:23 However, there are extensions to the package system so that they become structural, hierarchical package names. 02:00:07 pjb: something like after every dot there is a subgroup? 02:00:24 seems like good practice 02:01:06 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:44 seems like a good practice if you want people not to remember your package names 02:03:54 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:06:47 -!- NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.2.5] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11:01 metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 02:11:07 kenanb: http://paste.lisp.org/+2RB0 02:11:31 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 02:12:04 pjb: you just made me hate you :D 02:12:24 I spent days trying to achieve this man :D 02:12:34 Hope you learned something doing so. 02:13:46 I actually did, even more than I expected to learn, thanks to you folks. gotta love freenode 02:14:01 kenanb: http://tinf2.vub.ac.be/~dvermeir/courses/compilers/compilers.pdf 02:15:45 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:16:14 DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:39 pjb: does that use your parser generator? 02:16:48 No, hand crafted. 02:16:58 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:17:02 For three grammar rules, it's hardly worse to use a parser generator. 02:17:06 dammit, this is cool 02:17:08 worth 02:17:59 -!- deech [~user@adsl-99-126-111-162.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:19:03 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-114-196.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:48 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-236-160.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:23:40 -!- metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Quit: metaphysician] 02:25:55 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:28:03 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 02:29:29 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.157.220] has left #lisp 02:30:06 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:30:39 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:31:26 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:59 -!- gcentauri [~user@76-85-192-184.cable.inebraska.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:32:17 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:32:21 On LispWorks I get the warning: "(DEFINE-CONDITION DASHBOARD-CONNECTION-ERROR) did not specify list of slot-specs. This should be given (even when null), to retain ANSI compatability." 02:32:45 Since when am I forced to specify slots on my conditions? 02:33:17 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.65.237] has joined #lisp 02:33:46 since 1994 02:34:13 -Oh- wait nevermind.. It's my fault for forgetting that while the slots themselves are optional, the list that holds them is not 02:34:16 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 02:34:19 clhs define-condition 02:34:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defi_5.htm 02:34:38 I thought it meant that I was supposed to always provide at least one slot.. My bad! 02:38:19 -!- anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:39:31 kingless [~user@108-65-61-54.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:44 -!- jake___ [~jake@c-71-198-241-152.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:41:38 -!- jollyG [~JollyG@cpe-075-176-001-037.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:46:56 what should be the type if the value of a slot will be an instance of a class 02:46:58 -!- BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.13.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:47:04 -!- kingless [~user@108-65-61-54.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: urk] 02:47:07 class name? 02:47:23 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:29 yes 02:47:32 it will be an instance of a specific class, namely "tilt" 02:47:38 thanks 02:47:59 class-name or a class itself can be used to specify type for a class 02:54:47 does the performance benefit of faking a two dimensional array using one dimensional is significant even for small arrays e.g 20x20 or do people simple use a normal 2dim array most of the times? 02:55:17 people do profiling beforehand 02:55:23 minion: advice on optimization 02:55:23 #11908: Premature optimization is the root of all evil. 02:56:03 Permature optimization happens to everyone, you shouldn't feel ashamed.. That said, you should get some help if you want to be good at this 02:56:11 haha nice, minion is more interesting than my twitter feed 02:56:13 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-165-252-158.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:59:57 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-110-194.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:11 this seems like a wrong decision to me groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/klisp/ngcF3B6Ctko 03:01:26 https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/klisp/ngcF3B6Ctko 03:04:08 why faking simple list accessors on top of plists and making car cdr act weird while plists and their keyword accessors are extremely easy to create using usual lists 03:04:14 people are inventing better lisp all the time 03:04:17 disregard them 03:06:05 and this particular one is utterly stupid 03:06:29 it doesn't even sound like a good april fools joke 03:06:49 which it most certainly is 03:08:54 stassats`: I thought it is one at first, but he seemed to keep argueing the idea on twitter, so I thought maybe he is not 03:08:57 I hope he is 03:12:25 anyway, this kernel lisp thing seems interesting, I'd like to read more about it some time but I am sick and tired of wandering among various lisp dialects that is said to be best lisp so far and running back to cl soon 03:12:33 better stick to cl and do useful stuff 03:13:19 pjb, You around? 03:15:54 Pong 03:17:09 pjb, Some days ago, I was talking about making some way of constructing a literal hash table, which could be constructed at load-time. You talked about MAKE-LOAD-FORM. 03:17:29 Yes. 03:17:39 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.206] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:18:02 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.206] has joined #lisp 03:18:05 I'm having a problem seeing the connection between it and such a notation. (Suppose the notation for hash tables was just (hashtab key val key val ...) ) 03:18:41 Because object built by the reader tend to be inserted into code, and when you compile it the compiler needs a way to write and read them to and from fasl files. 03:18:58 yes 03:19:01 ISF_ [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 03:19:49 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:20:08 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:20:38 Now, for hash-table, I don't remember if it's mandated by the standard, but some implementations have a load form for them or even a reader syntax (eg clisp uses the structure #S(HASH-TABLE syntax to read literal hash tables). 03:21:40 Try to compile: (defvar *hash* #.(make-hash-table)) 03:21:56 compile-file more precisely. 03:23:54 pjb, yes that compiled successfully for me 03:26:19 See http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_bd.htm 03:27:53 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_bdbb.htm hash-table are externalizable so there should be no problem in writing a reader for them. 03:28:32 diginet [~diginet@ppp-70-246-16-75.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:34 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has joined #lisp 03:28:54 (as long as their keys and values are externalizable of course) 03:29:10 yes 03:29:17 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120310011224]] 03:29:44 *ski_* notes minion is alive and kicking again 03:30:36 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 03:30:49 jiaxi [~jiaxi@61.148.56.138] has joined #lisp 03:38:34 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:40:28 xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has joined #lisp 03:40:29 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-006.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:40:45 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-006.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 03:41:01 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:41:06 minion: kick ski_ 03:41:06 why do i have to do your dirty work? kick ski_ yourself. 03:42:16 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:43:02 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:43:57 pjb, I can't figure out whether HASH-TABLE is required to have a load form, but in any case, SBCL does, and I think I got it working: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/lisp-random/src/d667433e73eb/hash-table-reader.lisp 03:44:10 (disclaimer: I don't actually condone the use of {} for hash tables) 03:44:52 lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:38 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:49:10 clhs print-object 03:49:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_pr_obj.htm 03:50:24 Kron [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has joined #lisp 03:53:24 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:55:12 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-104.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:55:36 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-137.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:55:38 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-137.netcologne.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:56:05 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-137.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:56:07 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-137.netcologne.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:56:35 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-137.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:56:37 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-137.netcologne.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:58:17 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.65.237] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:37 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.58] has joined #lisp 04:01:08 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:28 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:01:35 Even having used Lisp for a long time, I am still astounded by the quality of the standard, and how well thought out things are --- many things which shortsightedness would have missed. 04:01:38 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1310.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:01:51 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 04:03:45 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Quit: all we are saying; is give peace a chance.] 04:08:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:09:04 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:13:28 Quadrescence: yeah, that amazes me, too. one wonders how people can use the term obsolete for such a find crafted language. 04:15:41 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 04:15:51 or was the more popular critique "cluttered"? 04:16:32 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has left #lisp 04:18:36 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 04:23:49 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:29:21 benny` [~benny@i577A1F97.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:29:34 -!- benny` is now known as benny 04:31:07 asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:31:23 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-110-194.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 04:32:02 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-16-203.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:32:55 -!- ISF_ is now known as ISF 04:34:40 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:36:58 jmdb [~jmdb@199.102.193.176] has joined #lisp 04:37:33 -!- jmdb [~jmdb@199.102.193.176] has left #lisp 04:40:37 -!- kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:46:03 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:49:26 kennyd: some thought that a language should be defined by a 50-page report, such as the Pascal Report, or the Scheme Reports (before r6rs). 04:49:51 But in practice you need to standardize bigger libraries. 04:50:54 But then, in practice, each application may also define its own language and library. Eg. CM (version 2), implements a mini scheme in CL, and is written in that language, even if it's compiled by CL compilers 04:55:19 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 04:59:57 http://sykosomatic.org/img/cffi.jpg my weekend so far, in a nutshell 05:02:34 sykopomp: kind of greenspun's tenth then. 05:02:39 Who's that guy? 05:02:47 sykopomp: hopefully, I'll soon be able to write the same about C++. 05:03:04 pkhuong: really now! Using SBCL? 05:03:50 pjb: I don't know. I think it's from a beer commercial. 05:04:33 sykopomp: yes. 05:05:01 that would be quite welcome. :) 05:06:04 the size of the library's runtime might not ;) 05:08:42 nowl [~nowl@pool-72-93-216-241.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:25 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:11:57 dang, /me rewrote lisppaste to hunchentoot, except for admin stuff 05:12:34 what was it using before?... 05:12:38 araneida 05:12:42 *stassats`* shivers 05:13:05 -!- cafesofie [~user@ool-18e4c9a0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:13:17 heh 05:13:40 and i think it was chandler's first project or something, because the code is quite terrible 05:13:56 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-120-41.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-107.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:22:43 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-120-41.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 05:24:53 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:27:22 megamind [~Nevermind@113.190.175.46] has joined #lisp 05:27:29 hey hi 05:27:44 In CCL, what's the easiest way to invoke a Unix pipeline? 05:27:58 i.e. something like 'foo | bar | baz' in a shell 05:28:34 (ccl:run-program "sh" '("-c" "foo | bar | baz")) 05:28:39 (asdf:run-shell-command "foo | bar | baz") 05:29:14 no way to pipe stdout of one to stdin of the other without invoking sh? 05:29:34 Ralith: yes, you can implement sh yourself. 05:29:43 har har 05:29:46 Calling pipe dup for exec etc. 05:30:37 ccl:run-program appears to accept a stream for stdin (and stdout, even!) 05:30:39 there's no way to leverage that? 05:31:15 Only file streams. 05:31:20 :input (ccl:external-process-output-stream ...) perhaps? 05:31:26 If they accept non file stream, they copy them to/from files before. 05:31:37 really? damn 05:31:39 oh well 05:32:04 -!- diginet [~diginet@ppp-70-246-16-75.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:34:21 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.158.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:34:45 the easiness of "|" is deceiving 05:36:32 I was rather hoping the easiness of ccl:run-program would deceive in kind. 05:37:02 -!- Kron [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:38:26 How Lisp represent nested list in its data structure while interpreting/compling? 05:38:29 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:38:43 megamind: as nested list (CONS) structure. 05:39:50 DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:57 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:39:59 assume that I'm using a Linked List to represent Lisp List 05:40:47 a cons cell is holding its data and point to next cons 05:40:55 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:41:07 but when there's a new List, is that a cons point to a whole new list ? 05:41:12 xan_ [~xan@52.Red-2-136-218.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:12 linked lists is exactly what lists are 05:41:41 -!- nowl [~nowl@pool-72-93-216-241.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:42:16 no, not to a whole new, to an existing CONS cell 05:42:19 or to NIL 05:42:52 (+ 1 (- 3 2 ) ) for example 05:43:40 the operator + will take 1 and (- 3 2) , right ? 05:43:48 no 05:44:06 it will take 1 and 1 05:44:35 but i don't see how that's an example for explaining lists 05:46:41 :-? hmm.. 05:47:01 how (- 3 2) is represented in that list ? 05:48:21 stassats`: for a lot of people, lists are vectors. (they call them arrays). 05:48:26 (cons '+ (cons 1 (cons (cons '- (cons 3 (cons 2 nil))) nil))) => (+ 1 (- 3 2)), does that help at all? 05:49:18 megamind: type: (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp) (com.informatimago.common-lisp.picture.cons-to-ascii:draw-list '(- 3 2)) 05:50:04 Bike, thanks, that's much clearer. 05:51:45 time to deal with recursion =.=! 05:52:23 See, lisp is so simple, you can jump to hairy subjects immediately. 05:52:41 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8124E4.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:53:46 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 05:59:58 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:33 BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.13.125] has joined #lisp 06:02:31 -!- megamind [~Nevermind@113.190.175.46] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:03:04 megamind [~Nevermind@113.190.175.46] has joined #lisp 06:05:30 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:06:00 sunmix [~user@223.205.23.102] has joined #lisp 06:12:18 metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 06:17:41 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:19:29 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:21:30 pjb, what does this library do? 06:22:00 pjb, is it all of your CL code? 06:22:34 zmyrgel [~user@a91-153-149-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 06:23:58 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.38.72] has joined #lisp 06:24:24 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:26:47 pjb, in the above, I get "TO is unbound" 06:28:19 -!- sunmix [~user@223.205.23.102] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:29:55 Quadrescence: it's not ALL of my CL code. 06:30:10 most of your published library code 06:30:43 http://paste.lisp.org/+2RB3 06:30:48 Yes. 06:31:16 the most ridiculous package name i've seen 06:31:26 pjb, hm, now it works 06:31:28 stassats`, haha 06:31:48 pjb, WHERE ARE THE BOX DRAWING CHARACTERS? 06:32:23 Quadrescence: IIRC, there's a flag to switch to unicode. 06:32:33 Or perhaps it was in another program. 06:32:51 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:33:21 pjb, why is this code in ALL-CAPS? 06:33:39 To test my emacs command upcase-lisp 06:33:52 :) 06:34:02 pjb, this sounds interesting... 06:34:40 looks like pjb is deliberately trying to stop people from using his code 06:34:49 package names, gpl, upper case 06:36:45 I provide com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.package:add-nickname, gpl->mu, I provide downcase-lisp and downcase-lisp-region. 06:38:16 Why would you be afraid to distribute your sources? 06:38:28 If you take my sources, let me see your sources! It's natural. 06:38:39 Anything else is hypocrisy. 06:39:25 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:39:41 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-210-198.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:42 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-210-198.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:39:42 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 06:43:32 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 06:43:55 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:44:06 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 06:47:39 kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-178-32.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 06:47:52 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 06:53:04 stassats`, hahaha 06:53:40 pjb, may i have your upcase-lisp 06:55:03 asvil [~asvil@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 06:58:27 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:15 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 07:00:58 hi, I'm having issues with macros 07:01:01 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128705 07:01:33 what issues? 07:01:51 can't grok how to get mk-table to evaluate 07:02:23 by using , 07:02:50 stassats`: comma not inside backquote 07:03:16 I've kept banging my head against wall with this for a while and it seems so minor issue 07:03:22 well, you need to remove , from ,board 07:03:38 that also needs to evaluate before mk-table 07:08:19 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@CPE-60-225-85-11.hhui2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:08:52 sty [~quassel@dsl-173-248-200-188.acanac.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:19 *metaphysician* is learning Common Lisp. Reading Paul's ANSI CL book. 07:09:40 zmyrgel: try this http://paste.lisp.org/display/128705#1 07:10:05 sellout: pull request still pending, now with some of the new llvm3 API tacked on 07:11:13 lisppaste [~lisppaste@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 07:11:14 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:11:21 lisppaste: url? 07:11:22 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://localhost:8080/new/lisp and enter your paste. 07:11:43 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:12:26 *stassats`* now needs to wait until people start frantically chatting for bots to crash 07:13:56 stassats`: ok, now it needs to evaluate the intern form as it complains that it isn't a symbol 07:14:15 ghuntley [~ghuntley@CPE-60-225-85-11.hhui2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:14:22 teggi [~teggi@123.21.162.137] has joined #lisp 07:14:23 have you tried my paste? 07:14:28 it has no intern! 07:15:09 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:16:26 stassats`: ok, found the right version, lemme test it 07:19:36 stassats`: got little farther, now mk-table complains that it got list of 72 elems instead of expected 64 07:30:19 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-153-120.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:30:46 -!- zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 07:31:18 -!- asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:35:30 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 07:39:49 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:40:10 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 07:42:48 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:46:00 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 07:53:09 Is there any circumstance under which routinely calling change-class to convert a baseclass to a child thereof is a bad idea? 07:54:15 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:57:11 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-134-25-21.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:00:32 if the object whose class you're changing is reachable from another thread 08:00:40 nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-153-245.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:01:04 though even there the baseclass->child transition shouldn't be too bad 08:01:51 Quadrescence: It's in https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/emacs 08:02:49 Ralith: no. It's designed to do that. 08:02:53 pjb, i am going to upcase all my code 08:03:22 Depending on the font you have it may be a win. 08:03:38 anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #lisp 08:03:44 great; suspected that to be the case 08:03:47 These times I'm using Bitstream Vera Sans Mono, so I'd tend to downcase-lisp instead. 08:04:30 pjb, what did you use before? 08:04:43 quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c122-107-122-25.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:04:49 I don't remember. Some other font where upper case looked nice. 08:06:48 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-239-136.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:37 The problem with testing frameworks, is that you spend more time debugging the tests than debugging your program 08:07:39 luis: aroundp 08:09:45 -!- sty [~quassel@dsl-173-248-200-188.acanac.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:10:07 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-114-196.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:15:42 -!- xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:15:54 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has joined #lisp 08:19:23 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-239-136.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 08:19:45 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-239-136.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:30 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0105d1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:56 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 08:24:39 Anderson [~user@c-76-18-219-103.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:14 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 08:27:32 mmajchrzak [~mmajchrza@host-81-190-228-83.wroclaw.mm.pl] has joined #lisp 08:29:16 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:30:45 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-165-252-158.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:31:16 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:31:55 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120310011224]] 08:32:08 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 08:32:28 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:57 i am learning Common Lisp. How do I setup Emacs as an IDE for programming in CL? How to setup to be able to compile, evaluate code in Emacs itself? I am on Debian Squeeze. 08:37:09 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has joined #lisp 08:38:26 metaphysician: you can follow http://mohiji.nfshost.com/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-linux/ 08:38:49 metaphysician: please ignore the debian package for sbcl and anything common lisp related. 08:39:40 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:40:47 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:41:09 aham, so "#1=(programmable . #1#)" is the printed version of a circular list 08:41:45 -!- kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-178-32.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:42:03 kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-180-202.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 08:42:44 I always wonder if we can devise a more appropriate syntax than that 08:43:44 its written in the standard isnt it? 08:44:00 mcstar: yes. 08:46:06 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-212-229.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:46:10 -!- BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.13.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:47:04 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-212-229.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 08:47:21 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-212-229.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:47:30 -!- noopyks [~lsenta@88-191-125-48.rev.dedibox.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 08:47:41 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 08:48:06 H4ns, i just did M-x slime and then the CL-USER prompt appeared. Is it okay? or should I try the method you linked? 08:48:08 pjb: good choice with the font :) 08:48:34 metaphysician: if you got the cl-user prompt, you're all set. 08:49:04 metaphysician: but if you plan to use quicklisp, you'd be better off getting rid off the debian sbcl package and all that surrounds it 08:49:21 metaphysician: and you plan to use quicklisp, you may just not know it :) 08:50:08 whats wrong with debian's? is it old? 08:50:22 what's quicklisp by the way? 08:50:36 mcstar: it is old and it comes with common lisp controller, which does not play nice with quicklisp 08:50:51 metaphysician: the preferred library management system for common lisp 08:51:24 read the blog post, follow the instructions. 08:53:40 -!- jiaxi [~jiaxi@61.148.56.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:57:46 hah, i see, common-lisp-controller is a standalone package, but sbcl depends on it 08:57:56 metaphysician: another tip. When setting up slime, make sure the slime-setup line includes (slime-setup '(slime-asdf slime-fancy)) 08:58:17 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 09:00:09 prxq, i don't know exactly where to include that line 09:00:27 metaphysician: how did you install slime? 09:00:41 metaphysician: using quicklisp? 09:01:57 oh got it 09:03:49 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:06:00 metaphysician: for added kicks. Type (make-hash-table) into the repl, right click on the returned object, and select inspect. (you can always exit using 'q') 09:08:05 since emacs, how can i easily dismiss a completion buffer? 09:09:13 mcstar: C-x 1 is what I do. 09:09:36 that is, when in the other buffer in the window where the completion buffer is. 09:09:39 -!- metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:10:06 i do that too, i thought theres some other shortcut that kills it 09:10:56 *cough* slime-indentation *cough* 09:12:22 nikodemus: how / where? 09:12:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-107.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:12:47 [SLB] [~slabua@host22-160-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:12:48 *|3b|* wonders why swank cares if contribs call PROVIDE now 09:12:56 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host22-160-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 09:12:56 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 09:13:32 in slime-setup :) 09:13:55 nikodemus: ah... 09:14:04 *prxq* updates his init.el 09:15:36 you probably also want (setq lisp-lambda-list-keyword-alignment t) (setq lisp-lambda-list-keyword-parameter-alignment t) 09:16:11 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 09:16:54 or check the docstring for common-lisp-style and set it appropriately 09:18:26 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:19:28 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 09:19:46 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-153-245.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:19:48 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:28 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 09:28:30 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:29:04 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:29:44 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:30:04 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 09:31:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-69.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:31:51 Zypeh [~zypeh@60.53.119.181] has joined #lisp 09:39:02 nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-153-245.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 09:40:48 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:42:27 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-048-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:02 -!- kanru`` [~user@61-228-144-233.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:54:28 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 09:55:04 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:55:43 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:55:51 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:54 kanru`` [~user@61-228-144-114.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:59:53 Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 10:00:28 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:02:28 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-153-245.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:02:58 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:03:26 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 10:05:34 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:08:27 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 10:08:55 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 10:13:16 |3b|: so that it puts it into *modules*? 10:13:52 and then require checks it and doesn't load it again 10:17:14 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:24 -!- megamind [~Nevermind@113.190.175.46] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:18:32 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-212-229.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:19:03 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-212-229.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:23:31 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-212-229.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:26:51 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:30:59 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:35:24 -!- fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:3838:e219:8a86:711] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:40:55 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27100107.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:44:39 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:45:14 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 10:48:42 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-006.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:50:00 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-006.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 10:50:29 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27100107.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:50:35 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 10:53:32 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:59:38 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 11:01:40 is there an opensource armchair that is compatible with lisp? 11:02:52 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:03:08 don't know but i'd buy one 11:03:26 my current ikea one doesn't run lisp 11:07:52 is there a CL equivalent to EmacsLisp benchmark function? 11:08:04 I want to run the same for say 1000 times to measure its perfs? 11:08:37 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:08:54 dim: not built-in 11:09:07 (loop repeat 1000 do ) 11:09:38 yeah, but that would include the loop time 11:09:43 good enough for my purpose, though 11:09:48 i was only half joking, doing science or programming requires a LOT of sitting 11:11:05 i like doing it lying 11:12:02 horizontal makes me sleepy 11:15:48 pnq [~nick@ACA24A3E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:17:05 Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.175.46] has joined #lisp 11:18:42 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-006.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:19:05 mcstar: try http://www.staples.com/Staples-Acadia-Ergonomic-Mesh-Task-Mid-Back-Chair-Black/product_570621 11:19:16 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-006.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 11:19:43 mcstar: available in every stapes in the country, beats hell out of all the other fancy chairs IMHO. 11:20:06 can you give me a zip? 11:20:25 (im not in the country, but i can guess 1) 11:20:49 ok, 12345 worked 11:20:53 well I just bought one in nyc around months ago in 10016 I think 11:22:12 -!- mmajchrzak [~mmajchrza@host-81-190-228-83.wroclaw.mm.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:22:45 i see it has a thick cushioning 11:23:25 i'm not fat I'm big boned 11:25:05 maxm-: is it any good in summer? (when you sweat even when doing nothing?) 11:26:21 not really tested it in that environment, I use air conditioning 11:27:14 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.74] has joined #lisp 11:27:53 if you plan on sitting in a chair naked, aeron type mesh chairs are bad, they'll live your skin looking like the spring up from the water guy's face in event horizon 11:27:55 Guthur` [~user@212.183.128.74] has joined #lisp 11:28:26 with fishbourne? 11:29:05 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B1E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:59 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 11:30:08 i used towels last summer, sitting in an armchair, not in an office chair 11:30:31 (and no, i dont intend to sit naked in it :) 11:32:02 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.162.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:32:21 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:33:06 i sit naked in my chair all the time 11:33:10 surely is the best way to code in lisp 11:33:27 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:33:35 I agree. 11:34:21 i wish (require 'antigravity) had worked 11:34:36 -!- skrue [~skrue@90.149.150.38] has left #lisp 11:35:14 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.74] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:35:22 -!- Guthur` [~user@212.183.128.74] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:35:42 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.74] has joined #lisp 11:37:00 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:12 mcstar: there's (ql:quickload '(impeller-wedge inertial-compensator hyperdrive)) 11:42:19 but not in Xach's distro ;) 11:42:19 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:32 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.38.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:43:23 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:43:54 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:44:05 zolk3ri_ [~zolk3ri@92-249-192-115.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 11:44:14 -!- dmbaturin [~daniil@baturin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:44:15 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.204] has joined #lisp 11:44:18 p_l: what scifi universe is that from? 11:44:33 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:19 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 11:45:32 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-147-113.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:45:38 got it, nvm 11:47:17 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-408041.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 11:47:41 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 11:48:40 -!- zolk3ri_ [~zolk3ri@92-249-192-115.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:49:22 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:49:22 -!- kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-180-202.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:50:24 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-196-52.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:52:24 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-196-95.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:29 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:59:50 is there planning for a new ansi common lisp standard? maybe covering cltl2? or is it final? 12:00:01 there's no 12:03:18 mcstar: You can safely start to learn and to program BIG project in Common Lisp: the standard won't change while you're doing so. 12:03:40 mcstar: you won't have to aim at a moving target. That's quite relaxing. 12:04:13 makes sense 12:04:54 btw, i noticed that haskell and mono both benefited from llvm 12:05:06 but i have not seen common lisp targeting it 12:05:30 what are the benefits? 12:05:33 diginet [~diginet@ppp-70-246-16-75.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:47 lindes [~user@p4FF1C515.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:06:57 i tried a bit of numerical benchmark in both, it provided quite faster code 12:07:10 both as in? 12:07:24 haskell + f# 12:07:35 code faster than what? 12:08:14 well, than asm/c output in the case of haskell, and whatever mono does in that case 12:08:57 mcstar: CL implementations have their own compilers in general. They don't need to call upon external compilers. 12:09:07 There's only ecl which calls upon gcc, as a feature. 12:09:47 what if the time spend on making a llvm-backend for haskell would've been spend on making the asm one better? 12:09:50 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-048-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:09:56 would the performance be different? 12:10:00 mcstar: which doesn't prevent you to write a CL implementing doing anything you want, such as using LLVM if that makes sense. 12:11:24 mcstar: "Lisp in Small Pieces" http://pagesperso-systeme.lip6.fr/Christian.Queinnec/WWW/LiSP.html 12:11:29 stassats: probably, but its possible that a different set of ppl are behind each 12:12:06 stassats, let's make SBCL into a literate program and therefore a book 12:12:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.85.62] has joined #lisp 12:12:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.85.62] has quit [Changing host] 12:12:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:12:34 Quadrescence: the advantage of literate programming is that you can publish and sell books. 12:12:40 Quadrescence: let's not 12:14:23 pjb, yes 12:14:40 Hmm... I'm having trouble getting cl-opengl to run in a way where both the GL code and Slime are interactive. I've tried both this (call it option a): http://lists.common-lisp.net/pipermail/cl-opengl-devel/2008-July/000515.html and also (option b, and I forget where I saw this) (defmethod glut:idle ((window glut:window)) (swank::process-requests t)) ... but neither seem quite to work. Anyone have experience with this? 12:14:50 I have been seriously contemplating doing it for SBCL or CMUCL, so I could learn. 12:15:01 i just brought up llvm, since people wrote lisps for jvm/clr too, but not llvm(afaik) which seems to be very performant 12:15:40 I also see https://github.com/luismbo/cl-opengl/commit/2604ea787dd8516ebf0674c2a8efef30fb1eac21 ... not sure if I have that commit or not; I'm failing to find how to set *global-idle-hooks*, but maybe that's just because I'm looking in the wrong places? 12:15:53 lindes: spawn a new thread. 12:16:11 Or pump events manually by calling glut:main-loop-event in the REPL. 12:16:31 mcstar: what are you waiting to write a CL targetting LLVM? 12:16:49 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-212-229.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:17:19 pjb: lack of many things, but i promise you ill try one day 12:17:37 if I were to go about it, I'd hack on the backend of some existing compiler 12:18:28 Quadrescence: I can't imagine a LLVM backend to sbcl being faster than the native backends. 12:18:31 pkhuong: Hmm, some pages seem to indicate that threading and glut don't get along so well (and/or that this is true with SBCL? I forget)... but I could maybe try that. Meanwhile, I get "The function CL-GLUT:MAIN-LOOP-EVENT is undefined." if I try to run (glut:main-loop-event) from the REPL. ? 12:18:40 i know that first, i will implement a little lisp in haskell, like the ackmehet did 12:18:48 -the 12:18:58 pjb, Not sure! 12:19:06 it's better to implement lisp in lisp 12:19:09 mcstar: there's liskell, that could be a starting point to implement lisp in haskell. 12:19:17 (better write sexps than haskell!) 12:19:26 :) 12:19:26 (also, pkhuong, for the threading option, could I get a hint? I haven't played with threads in lisp yet.) 12:19:33 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 12:20:05 pjb: sbcl was a bit faster on my benchmarks than llvm 12:20:08 I've been told to use bordeaux-threads, even in CCL that implements its own threading 12:20:11 (or: here's one place that says it needs to be from the main thread: http://www.cliki.net/cl-opengl ) 12:20:30 dim: bordeaux-threads doesn't implement any threading 12:20:32 and I've been looking at bordeaux-threads which is of course exposing CCL native implementation :) 12:20:43 stassats: I didn't know that before I had a look at the sources 12:20:59 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 12:21:02 dim: it's not exposing it, it's hiding it! 12:21:11 you could say that too yes 12:21:41 No, you couldn't say that too, the two clauses are mutually exclusive! 12:22:50 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:23:15 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 12:23:21 only for a given very narrow definition of exposing and hiding 12:23:45 it's exposing it with a common API 12:23:52 it's hiding it under a common API 12:23:58 Lookup the dictionnary. All the definitions of expose are contrary to each definition of hide, and vice versa. 12:23:59 pick any two :) 12:24:13 that's boring 12:24:21 so you can't expose something under a new name? 12:24:32 I'm with stassats here, that definition is boring :) 12:24:35 No, you can't. You're hiding it. 12:24:49 and I though CL would be fun. 12:25:07 it doesnt have fun, it has lambda 12:25:09 dim: i meant that the whole discussion is boring 12:25:16 But indeed, it's not a CL question, it's a mere vocabulary question. 12:25:22 let's do some lisp pranks instead 12:25:38 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 12:25:38 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 12:25:46 f# calls its lambda 'fun' good choice, if you ask me 12:25:47 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-186545.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 12:27:26 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-212-229.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:29 you use f# mcstar? 12:27:51 just had a look at it, so no 12:27:58 ah 12:27:59 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-212-229.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:28:12 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-408041.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:28:20 i picked up jon harrop's book, the f# for scientists 12:28:39 ENOPKHUONG. ;) 12:28:49 mcstar, do you want "C++ FOR MATHEMATICIANS" 12:28:54 (or am I just being impatient?) 12:28:59 o.O 12:29:02 Quadrescence: my Xah Lee? 12:29:09 stassats, hahahahahaha 12:29:11 surely, it would be Elisp for mathematicians 12:29:19 s/my/by/ 12:30:08 Quadrescence: why did you say that? 12:30:19 you said f# for scientists 12:30:21 same theme! 12:30:27 not really 12:30:41 john harrop is a notorious troll 12:30:57 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/734346/CFM.pdf 12:31:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:31:33 ive read about xah lee 12:31:42 i didnt know jon was a troll 12:32:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.85.62] has joined #lisp 12:32:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.85.62] has quit [Changing host] 12:32:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:32:21 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-212-229.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:32:26 BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.13.125] has joined #lisp 12:32:58 mcstar: he's a known f# evangelist/advocate. he has exceptionally strong opinions 12:33:25 yeah, a bit of it came down, seen him answering quite a few SO questions 12:33:31 or at least commenting on them 12:33:57 yea 12:34:20 i bet those were questions in python and he answered them in f#? 12:34:55 there was a python problem of filling a container with files of different sizes, the goal is the get the maximal possible fit 12:35:15 but it had an f# code as well, not just python 12:35:25 qonco [~qonco@113.232.71.172] has joined #lisp 12:35:30 i redid it in sbcl 12:35:48 What made it specific to sbcl? 12:35:58 i did 12:36:12 it was protable 12:36:12 By using what specific feature of sbcl? 12:37:11 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:37:11 performance! 12:37:28 So you wrote code that is time dependant? 12:37:37 i havent used really any other implementation than sbcl 12:37:50 I can't fathom how filling containers with files of different sizes may be time dependant. 12:37:59 pjb: what? 12:38:06 mcstar: you're programming in Common Lisp, not in sbcl! 12:38:27 as stassats said, the numbers are specific to sbcl 12:38:31 -!- zmyrgel [~user@a91-153-149-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:38:38 it was a benchamrk, so i stressed, that it was in SBCL 12:38:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:38:56 the code was CL of course 12:39:14 A benchmark? How much time did it take to write the python version and how much for the Common Lisp version? 12:39:31 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:39:54 i have no idea, i didnt write the python one, and i just translated that to CL 12:40:16 it was half that fast 12:40:22 That's not how a benchmark comparing python and Common Lisp should be made 12:40:41 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-212-229.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:40:50 the python one used dictionaries, so i used hash-tables 12:41:12 with vectors i got a ~50x increase 12:41:21 You take three python programmers and three CL programmers, in each group a good one, an average one and a newbie, and you measure the time they need to write a program following the same specifications from scratch. 12:41:58 mcstar: http://cliki.net/Performance 12:42:23 Actually, mcstar's evaluation of run-time as performance is the usual one 12:42:38 But it's the most useless one nowadays. 12:43:12 I still find it valuable in my professional life. 12:43:23 pjb: i just wanted to understand the algorithm, and i thought it would be best if i wrote it in CL 12:43:34 Indeed. 12:43:37 and yes, i was curious about the numbers too 12:43:54 and python has really fast dictinaries 12:44:01 all things aside 12:44:18 pjb: i heard it several times, that all those things you mention matter 12:44:35 but im not a professional programmer, so all this is more like a curiosity to me 12:46:46 Quadrescence: what is the apropo of that book? how is that targeted specifically for mathematicians? 12:47:02 he talks about """polynomials""" 12:47:53 sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 12:48:23 meanwhile ppl forget software like Axiom 12:49:31 i know a mathematician who wrote his game theoretical library in c++ 12:49:49 he told me several times, how much he likes to overload << and >> 12:49:54 LAMMJohnson [~JA@cpc3-nrwh9-2-0-cust336.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:50:03 I like too: (defun << (x y) ) 12:50:28 -!- xan_ [~xan@52.Red-2-136-218.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:50:38 in lisp you might as well give that operation some good name 12:50:50 in c++ << has nice precedence for its usual application 12:51:20 mcstar: there are too many precedence levels in C++, nobody knows them, so I always fully parenthesize my C++ expressions. 12:51:34 On the other hand you don't need any superfluous parenthesis in Lisp. 12:51:44 totally agree 12:52:00 but i made recently the mistake of not parenthesizing an ^ oepration 12:52:18 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.154.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.85.62] has joined #lisp 12:54:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.85.62] has quit [Changing host] 12:54:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:57:13 jollyG [~JollyG@cpe-075-176-001-037.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:57:27 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 12:57:45 asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:58:36 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:00:01 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: Home] 13:02:39 nauar [~Grunt@135.Red-79-152-245.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:14 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 13:11:29 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 13:16:10 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 13:17:08 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.227.7] has joined #lisp 13:18:01 is there a cotangent function in cl? 13:18:36 (lambda (x) (/ (cos x) (sin x))) 13:18:44 (/ (tan x)) 13:18:57 asin, acos, and atan compute the arc sine, arc cosine, and arc tangent respectively. 13:19:02 (info "(ansicl) asin; acos; atan") 13:19:48 10x 13:20:01 dim: your mention of (info ...) isn't helpful for anyone 13:20:08 clhs tan 13:20:08 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sin_c.htm 13:20:12 clhs atan 13:20:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_asin_.htm 13:20:41 well I'll stop using that then, I though having the specs in Info is as useful as slime is, you can't really do without it 13:21:10 the problem is with the a* functions, those are inverse functions 13:21:14 I mean I'll stop using that kind of references here if course :) 13:21:30 dim: no, it's really useless, slime can't link to it automatically 13:21:36 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:21:40 and info doesn't have enough hyper links 13:22:02 there's an index in info that you can use with the 'i' key 13:22:23 I prefer that over html browing, I'll confess not having used the slime interface to the browsing though 13:24:02 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:25:05 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 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has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:28:12 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:29:42 stassats's project is a custom web browser I think, so trying to sell him on info vs html is a lost cause :-) 14:30:28 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:30:46 *maxm-* is pretty happy with info clhs thing, works great btw.. Now I actually look things up, will help avoid being made fun of by the "remember every line of clhs by heart" pedantics in here :-) 14:30:53 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:32:23 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:32:25 ainm [~ainm@222.Red-79-146-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:32:52 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:34:14 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-137.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:34:26 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:37:18 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:40:46 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:41:02 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-11-74.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 14:41:13 kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 14:41:25 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-11-74.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 14:41:27 hi folks 14:41:30 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@80.203.136.124] has joined #lisp 14:41:49 i just came across lisp code in a stupid hacker series :D 14:41:50 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:41:53 http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=29427 14:41:56 how cool is that! 14:42:25 maxm-: idea for a startup: making a small lisp mascot, i.e. the alien figure, that will on request cite back CLHS paragraphs? 14:42:29 scheme with tiny CLOS i guess? 14:45:27 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:45:54 mcstar: to the y-combinator! 14:47:07 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:48:03 IIRC a lisper blogged about the balance between clean code and kludgey. he got a negative feedback from an experienced manager that his code is always too clean... anyone has the link? 14:51:57 -!- nauar [~Grunt@135.Red-79-152-245.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 14:52:56 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.252.159] has joined #lisp 14:53:44 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 14:58:27 ISF_ [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 14:59:51 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:59:54 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 15:02:12 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 15:05:46 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:05:48 vozhyk_ [~vozhyk@178.125.147.223] has joined #lisp 15:07:00 How can I make a class with a random name (gensym)? 15:07:55 -!- nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-81-137.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:17 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:31 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-81-137.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:08:46 Is defining it in a macro the only option? 15:09:13 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 15:10:56 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 15:11:17 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-vddudmqstrseqygn] has joined #lisp 15:11:33 vozhyk_: hmm (eval `(defclass ,(gensym) () ())) 15:11:35 or a macro 15:12:55 actually there is a mop way 15:12:57 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-81-137.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:13:03 I remember doing it, let me find the code 15:14:12 (make-instance 'standard-class :name (gensym) 15:14:52 lisp is awesome :-) 15:15:05 Thank you. 15:15:26 guy is a c programmer for 10 years, and gives me as a data separator character the euro sign  15:15:41 I wonder why someone would need to create a class with a random name :) 15:16:03 probably for testing 15:16:29 btw vozhyk_ you don't have to give class a name, simply use the object that (make-instance) returned as 1st arg to (make-instance) 15:16:34 so you can have anonymous classes 15:16:36 maxm-: Will it run on an implementation with no support for MOP? 15:17:03 vozhyk_: not sure if standard-class initargs are MOP or part of clhs? 15:17:06 clhs standard-class 15:17:06 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_std_cl.htm 15:18:09 vozhyk_: but pretty much every implementation is covered by closer-mop 15:18:28 even ECL? 15:19:30 googling finds http://ecls.sourceforge.net/new-manual/ch21.html 15:19:31 vozhyk_: http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/closer-mop.html 15:21:18 *maxm-* used anonymous class to make mixins.. So you can add classes dynamically to objects 15:21:19 thanks 15:21:55 like (run-simulation (make-mixin simulation-obj 'specific-stats-collector-class)) 15:22:13 so I don't have to define 10 different combinations of each type of simulation with each type of stats 15:26:27 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:31:18 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129194179.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 15:37:19 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.252.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:39:07 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:42:17 vantage|home [~vantage@142.210-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 15:42:29 -!- Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.175.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:42:43 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:46:37 -!- kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:51:18 dnolen [~user@12.130.123.134] has joined #lisp 15:51:35 -!- Anderson 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[~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-148-212.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:39:46 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-148-212.netcologne.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:40:15 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-148-212.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:40:16 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-148-212.netcologne.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:42:02 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 16:43:19 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 16:44:56 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48:03 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-148-212.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:48:19 kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 16:48:42 stassats: ping 16:51:03 naiv_ [~naiv@AAnnecy-552-1-217-40.w109-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:51:43 -!- naiv [~naiv@AAnnecy-552-1-255-102.w90-4.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:59:22 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:01:30 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-410173.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:37 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-120-143.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:51 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.49.5.4] has joined #lisp 17:07:15 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:07:17 Froward [~uh-oh@64.134.68.176] has joined #lisp 17:10:34 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 17:11:45 kenanb: yes 17:12:32 stassats: that xons post I linked yesterday turns out to be no joke :) 17:13:18 the lists with named parameters thing 17:13:47 oh well, there are plenty of crazy folks 17:15:24 vantage|2 [~vantage@142.210-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 17:15:43 JKiiski [~JKiiski@178.239.192.195] has joined #lisp 17:16:31 -!- mmajchrzak [~mmajchrza@78.9.144.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:16:40 stassats: that made me come up with a good strategy about crazy-ish decisions, post them on april 1, if most people just lol and try to keep up with the joke, pretend it is a joke, if they reply "this might actually be a good idea" say you weren't joking at all 17:16:47 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@142.210-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:17:09 not sure if there already are poeple using this strategy 17:18:29 opposite strategy when commenting on seemingly crazy idea, is to praise it, and then you can escape by adding "for me too poop on!" 17:19:14 borodon [~Borodon@ip68-106-150-168.cl.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:19 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:21:42 nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-153-245.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:23:48 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-114-192.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:23:53 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.80.94] has joined #lisp 17:24:19 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 17:25:21 maxm-: I have no idea what that phrase means :) something like "I know I was continuing the joke." ? 17:26:10 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-217-97.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:26:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph,_the_Insult_Comic_Dog 17:29:18 maxm-: ah, I see. 17:31:10 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 17:32:38 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-158-49.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 17:33:39 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:33:52 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:34:29 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:34:48 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:36:34 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:28 -!- ainm [~ainm@222.Red-79-146-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit 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[~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 18:39:50 -!- bas_ is now known as Skola 18:42:07 -!- lindes [~user@p4FF1C515.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:43:25 -!- Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.175.46] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:43:49 mon_key- [~mon_key-@69.64.7.202] has joined #lisp 18:44:09 minion: chant 18:44:09 MORE LIKE A CURIOSITY 18:44:52 stassats: thanks for getting minion back up 18:45:31 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-157-169.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:05 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:13 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:46:13 H4ns: thanks for helping stassats help minion to help us 18:46:32 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 18:47:04 -!- mon_key- [~mon_key-@69.64.7.202] has quit [Client Quit] 18:47:08 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 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has joined #lisp 19:33:35 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-402930.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:34:36 -!- antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:34:37 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 19:37:05 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:06 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:37:06 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 19:37:49 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:38:33 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 19:40:29 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:53 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:49:11 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-006.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:50:09 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-006.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 19:53:04 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:54:59 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:59 I don't know if this is SBCL, slime, CL itself, or what, but the * special-variable is... so nice. :) (and **, ***, +, ++, +++... which I was recently made aware of, and more recently shown a reason to love.) 19:59:02 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 20:00:29 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-153-245.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:01:19 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:03:33 CL itself 20:03:37 very nice indeed 20:04:35 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:05:44 what are those big earbufs things? or the +? 20:05:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:06:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:06:31 clhs * 20:06:31 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_st.htm 20:06:47 dim: look at the variable. 20:06:48 oh cool found (info "(ansicl) *; **; ***") :) 20:06:56 I was looking at declaration 20:07:19 oh that's interactive use shortcuts 20:08:16 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.38.72] has joined #lisp 20:09:01 whats the practical benefit of them? 20:09:37 mcstar: they give you access to results of previous evaluations. that is the sole benefit. 20:10:07 mcstar: sometimes a function that you call in the returns something that you then want to process. or keep. 20:10:16 there's /, // and /// too apparently 20:10:17 mcstar: like (defvar *my-saved-result* *) 20:12:24 ainm [~ainm@188.Red-79-154-73.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:10 i know what +* does, but if i wanted to save something i just did 20:16:55 in mathematica, you can refer back to any output, i dont use that either 20:17:09 i believe the same goes to maxima 20:17:35 if you use slime with its presentations, you can do that there too 20:20:49 i read somewhere that a guy was expecting garba collection on some large object, and it didnt happen 20:21:04 turned out * pinned the object down 20:21:19 garbage* 20:21:37 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:04 mcstar: you mean "referenced", pinning is a different thing 20:22:22 i used the word informally 20:22:35 so whats the technical meaning o fit? 20:22:44 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:09 -!- vantage|2 [~vantage@142.210-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 20:26:10 mcstar: ensuring that an object doesn't get moved by the GC 20:26:29 i see, i didnt know 20:28:27 often done with arrays which must be passed to a foreign function 20:30:20 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.21.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:30:42 Froward [~uh-oh@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:01 dnolen [~user@12.130.122.223] has joined #lisp 20:34:40 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:35:42 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:35:59 timack [~timack@hlfx59-1-117.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 20:36:46 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:40:09 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@80.203.136.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:42:49 nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-93-21-117.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 20:43:40 francogrex [~user@109.130.107.153] has joined #lisp 20:43:41 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Out of this 3D] 20:47:47 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 20:48:14 i abandoned cua mode, and i find C-y a bit awkward 20:48:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:49:13 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:56:45 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:56:53 plot-2d + garnet ? how about those for scientific plotting ? 20:57:05 garnet might be hard to get running 20:57:54 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:26 especially on windows I think. p_l have you tried it? 20:59:45 francogrex: I think I got it loaded 20:59:54 but remember it requires X11 21:00:15 i was thinking about embedding gnuplot into an emacs buffer that runs maxima 21:00:20 CommonQT might be good choice, just make sure you got righ ABIs 21:00:42 and just draw the plots yourself or see if you can load smoke bindings of Qwt 21:01:10 simplest might be running gnuplot to generate PNG and displaying it in a window ;) 21:01:21 maxm-: clhs (asdf wrapper) 0.4 released, I fixed the bug and added some (clhs:print-emacs-setup-form) usability enhancements. This should be in the coming Quicklisp release, or you can get it early from http://www.hexstreamsoft.com/projects/clhs/clhs_latest.tar.gz , unzip it in quicklisp/local-projects/ and run (ql:quickload "clhs") (clhs:install-clhs-use-local :if-exists :supersede). 21:01:44 -!- kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-191-83.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:57 snearch [~snearch@g225076122.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:02:58 gnuplot has the option to attach itself to a given x window id, not really sure how to handle that 21:03:07 Hexstream: ah thanks.. I kind of switched to using the info thing, since (for me) having it popup CLHS in emacs info buffer, is more useful then local html link 21:03:23 mcstar: create a new X11 window, give that id to gnuplot 21:03:29 p_l: I was just browsing cliki (out of boredom) and i found Garnet, never heard of it before; I have gnuplot I am trying to use it 21:03:40 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:03:53 -!- Froward [~uh-oh@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:03:58 maxm-: The dpans thing? 21:04:07 Hexstream: yea 21:04:09 p_l: but will it 'fill' that window? can this work with existing windows? 21:04:42 I see you're not a glutton for definitiveness. (dpans is a "last draft" thing instead of the "real" thing) 21:04:58 (Still much better than cltl2, though!) 21:05:16 mcstar: it's specially for *existing* windows 21:06:08 p_l: i thought so too, but when i gave it existing window id's it just created a new window, which displayed the plot, but had the right id, i must be missing something 21:06:17 Hexstream: doh.. Wondering if there is any way to get the real thing? 21:06:28 mcstar: I don't remember the details, so can't help you there 21:06:55 p_l: do you think it would be interesting to have a gnuplot viewer in emacs? 21:07:04 or rather multiple ones 21:07:08 mcstar: I think there's some way to do so already 21:07:10 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:07:13 maxm-: Isn't that what you were doing already?... What does C-c C-d h make-instance RET do for you? Does that redirect through info? 21:07:21 its already extremely easy to do it, just get it to generate png, then (insert-image) 21:07:43 thats not interactive and not working for 3d 21:07:54 displaying an image is a piece of cake in the buffer 21:08:03 maxm-: My clhs asdf wrapper is intended to make it very easy to get and setup "the real thing". 21:08:08 Hexstream: i meant I interpreted your last comment about "definitiveness" that dpans source differs from actual hyperspec 21:08:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:27 maxm-: It does. It's based on a "last draft", not on the "actual hyperspec". 21:08:31 Hexstream: so I was wondering if there are .tex files for actual hyperspec that everyone links to are available 21:08:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:09:20 maxm-: no. the hyperspec was done from draft as well, btw - the printed differs only by some typographic changes for book format 21:09:33 maxm-: The HyperSpec is a very proprietary HTML translation of the TeX sources of the actual standard, produced by Kent Pitman with funding from Lispworks with permission from ANSI. 21:09:53 Hexstream: my problem is that "real thing" seems less useful then info.. /me can navigate info much faster then w3m, and having separate firefox window popup is kind of slower and more annoying 21:10:38 ah.. I get it that "actual TeX sources" (the final ones) are not available freely? 21:11:09 *madnificent* never got round to navigating info fast 21:11:32 There are no actual differences between the final dpans and ansi standard. 21:11:51 Oh. So it's more "theoretical" than I thought. 21:12:03 madnificent: I bound same keys as go definition and pop back (M-, and M-.) for info-forward/backward and help forward/backward 21:12:05 Maybe one of two changes on the credits, but that's it. 21:12:23 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 21:12:34 maxm-: paste the code so i don't have to think 21:12:45 nikodemus: ah great, then I'll stick with the info thing 21:13:19 but! I've hear that the TeX sources contain bits that are commented out that at least come incarnation of the info conversion process didn't deal with correctly, so someone ended up with info files that had some minor actual changes due to commented out part getting included. 21:13:32 maxm-: ? was supposed to supersede that sentence 21:13:37 "Busted!" 21:15:03 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:05 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:15:16 rTypo [~alex@unaffiliated/rtypo] has joined #lisp 21:15:22 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:16:50 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 21:17:12 Personally the last thing I want to do when consulting a "definitive" reference is have to continually second-guess it and have to verify against the actual definitive reference... 21:17:13 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.107.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:53 -!- Anderson [~user@c-76-18-219-103.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:18:30 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.246] has joined #lisp 21:19:02 Froward [~uh-oh@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:49 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:19:59 Hexstream: how can you be sure, that the process that produced HTML hyperspec, did not suffer a similar problem that could have left small differences from actual standard, without comparing with original sources? 21:20:30 sometimes you just have to stop "going deeper" :-) 21:20:33 on * and + and / variables: heh, / is interesting, when evaluated repeatedly. :) 21:20:45 maxm-: It's a question of 1. practicality and 2. If I'm wrong because I trusted the HyperSpec, then pretty much everyone will be wrong with me, because everyone uses it in practice. 21:21:11 but also... very handy to know about! thanks, dim, for mentioning it. 21:21:17 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:21:31 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:33 feh. i'm pretty sure i read an email about that last week or so, and now i can't find it 21:24:04 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 21:24:08 The CLHS is comparable in usability to dpans, but the original text version is not within 2 orders of magnitude in terms of practicality for daily use. (Stating the obvious...) 21:24:12 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has joined #lisp 21:27:04 -!- rTypo [~alex@unaffiliated/rtypo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:56 what is dpan? 21:31:46 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-93-21-117.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:32:06 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279564323.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:33:23 mcstar: http://www.cliki.net/dpans2texi 21:34:35 mcstar: at least, that should give you an overview of what's related to the discussion here 21:34:55 yeah i got it thanks 21:36:40 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:36:51 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 21:38:48 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA31ADA.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:40:06 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:40:33 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0105d1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:43:27 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:44:38 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-69.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:52 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:47:00 -!- dnolen [~user@12.130.122.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:47:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:49:11 i want to macroexpand some code within a certain environment, how can i do this? ContextL populates a special variable, i'm conditionally outputting code. so far i'm using eval in the right environment for this purpose, though i'd really want something prettier. 21:52:04 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:52:15 -!- ainm [~ainm@188.Red-79-154-73.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:52:22 ainm [~ainm@188.Red-79-154-73.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:08 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.45] has joined #lisp 21:53:14 madnificent: (defvar *captured-env*) (defmacro capture-env (&body ignored &environment env) (setq *captured-env* env)) then use (capture-env) inside a function or such (the place where you want to debug macroexpansion) 21:54:09 at least that's how i was doing it, maybe there is some easier way 21:54:11 maxm-: hmm, i don't know it at that time 21:54:16 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:54:28 i know it at macroexpansion time 21:55:45 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-16-203.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:27 madnificent: ok I must have misunderstood your problem then 21:57:40 -!- daniel__3 [~daniel@p5B326203.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:57:46 daniel___ [~daniel@p50829338.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:48 maxm-: only slightly. i want to expand the code within the enivornment. the macro's call functions when they are expanded, those functions need to operate within a certain environment. 21:58:26 coz basically my method was to remember the env in a global var, then use (macroexpand-1 '(whatever) *that-var*. Do we mean same thing by "environment"? Coz it has specific meaning with macros, that is the &environment env, that is implementation specific object representing lexical env 21:59:17 ah then its a different thing.. guess you need a continuation or something... 21:59:20 ah what you can do is 21:59:33 just throw error from your macroexpansion code 21:59:54 -!- ered [~ered@108-201-125-162.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:06 -!- snearch [~snearch@g225076122.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:00:08 then in sldb, you can eval things in that frame.. You can even wrap it all into (handler-bind) to achive same result automatically 22:00:34 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:00:41 ered [~ered@108-201-125-162.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:09 -!- asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:02:34 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:02:40 madnificent: If it's a special variable that's involved, and at macroexpansion time, don't you just inherit it when you call macroexpand? I guess I don't understand what the problem is. 22:03:26 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.38.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:04:32 REPL> (setq *expand-me* '(form-to-expand)) (handler-bind ((my-condition (lambda (err) (when *expand-me* (setq *expand-me* (macroexpand-all *expand-me*))) (invoke-restart 'continue)))) (do-your-code)) 22:05:12 And, are you sure this contextL thing is more useful than it gives you problems?... Isn't it some relatively opaque thing that's a bit hard to conceptualize and deal with? 22:05:59 then in the guts of do your code, do (with-simple-restart (continue "blah") (error 'my-condition)) 22:06:47 Eatime. 22:14:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:16:04 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 22:17:57 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:18:31 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-vddudmqstrseqygn] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:39 Hexstream: perhaps when calling macroexpand manually :) 22:21:22 Hexstream: no, ContextL is quite simple to understand. the documentation is lacking, but once you get the hang of it it is pretty and pretty simple. 22:21:51 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:04 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 22:28:13 maxm-: macroexpand should work apparently, yes. i had idiotically placed nil at the end of my macro :/ 22:28:17 thanks for the heads up 22:29:13 maxm-: however, where is macroexpand-all? 22:29:25 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:30:20 mensch [~mensch@c-67-189-240-148.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:54 madnificent: ah, sbcl has it in (require :sb-cltl2) 22:35:07 Documentation: The last frontier! 22:36:01 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:36:33 Hexstream: i found it really cumbersome to get started with contextl, but now it seems like a really valuable tool 22:36:42 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-134-25-21.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: mcstar] 22:37:04 maxm-: it's not standardised? i couldn't find it on l1sp.org 22:37:22 madnificent: macroexpand-all is not standard, no. 22:38:29 madnificent: "macroexpand-dammit" from Quicklisp might do what you want. I haven't tried it. 22:39:41 Hexstream: the cliki description seems somewhat sane 22:41:08 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: reboot] 22:41:34 sty [~quassel@dsl-173-248-200-188.acanac.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:57 mmajchrzak [~mmajchrza@dynamic-62-87-247-153.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #lisp 22:43:10 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:20 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:42 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129194179.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:43:52 -!- jpanest [~jpanest@108-166-73-199.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:44:00 jpanest [~jpanest@108-166-73-199.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:55 hi, does anybody know json pretty printer pls? 22:46:14 -!- mel0on [1000@h-70-73.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:48:44 There are many libraries to parse JSON. And then it should be pretty easy to make a custom pretty-print table to pretty-print the object structure as JSON. 22:49:10 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-006.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:49:54 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.155.46.12] has joined #lisp 22:50:11 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-006.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 22:51:04 yeah, but nothing ready made from what I see 22:51:23 how would you want to see it printed? 22:52:08 plist or alist -> {\n $indent 'field': value,\n....} 22:52:16 $indent increasing recursively 22:52:48 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 22:54:17 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:55:29 Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 22:55:49 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.227.7] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:57:23 maxm-: got my end problem solved now, thanks! 23:02:08 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:06:48 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:11:12 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-41-32.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:15:02 ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 23:15:33 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-41-32.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:15:50 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-41-32.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:16:00 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:16:15 BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:12 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:18:19 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 23:18:48 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:20:40 -!- timack [~timack@hlfx59-1-117.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:20:43 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-151-118.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:08 -!- Froward [~uh-oh@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:29:03 Froward [~uh-oh@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:56 -!- ainm [~ainm@188.Red-79-154-73.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:33:01 ainm [~ainm@58.Red-83-61-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:21 adu [~ajr@64.134.96.202] has joined #lisp 23:35:59 -!- ainm [~ainm@58.Red-83-61-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:38:52 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:44:02 timack [~timack@142.177.9.114] has joined #lisp 23:46:39 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:47:41 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 23:48:29 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:45 -!- kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:50:11 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:51:36 -!- Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:51:43 mon_key: if you have questions which are easier to answer in chat, things that aren't clear about COPP or such things, feel free to either ask here or to /msg me. 23:53:13 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.158.80] has joined #lisp 23:57:32 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-16-203.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:57:53 -!- lindes [~user@p4FF1C515.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:58:18 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:31 AI|Loop [~Lazik@173.231.109.130] has joined #lisp