00:00:35 -!- gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-kbiguwxyiefszxbh] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:00:49 gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-hrsaoelqpplxmuvs] has joined #lisp 00:03:35 Aethaeryn: well, that completely depends on your definition of "basic" then 00:03:55 is a command-based editor "basic"? or do you need one where you can cursor around a buffer, in order to be "basic"? 00:04:41 Phoodus: There's two kinds of minimalism, the minimalism the programmer sees and the minimalism the user sees. For a user, minimalism in an editor would be to be presented with essentially a cursor and a blank box in a window, and just told to write text. 00:04:50 For a programmer, minimalism is probably an ed clone. 00:05:13 Unfortunately, since ed has already been cloned in cl, I now need to think of a slightly different minimalist editor :-P 00:05:14 Aethaeryn: sedit is smaller than ed. 00:05:21 both cases would be met by throwing the contents into a UI element 00:05:26 But it helps only editing sexps. 00:06:06 Phoodus: But the GUI library is probably *huge*, it's ust code you personally don't see :-P 00:06:10 *just 00:06:31 I swear, this keyboard drops a character every now and then 00:07:16 pjb: the comments look about as long as the actual program 00:07:39 :-P 00:09:23 pjb: Why GPL license something that short? 00:09:23 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 00:11:54 Aethaeryn: size of the GUI library does not affect ease to the programmer (if it's a decent lib), nor ease to the user, which are the 2 definitions of "basic" you listed 00:11:59 Aethaeryn: I GPL everything. 00:12:20 "Aethaeryn: I GPL everything." is licensed under GPL. 00:12:21 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c96b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:31 If you want to distribute it, provide the sources! 00:13:06 the gpl virus got you pretty hard 00:13:16 TimKack` [~user@c-2ec29f2f-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 00:13:23 stassats: yes. 00:14:22 pjb: The strictness of the license I put on my source is proportional the effort I put in. Something quick and short is probably Apache, something subsantial is probably AGPL because your GPL is insufficient :-P 00:14:54 -!- Froward [~uh-oh@64.134.69.248] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:17 Froward [~uh-oh@64.134.69.248] has joined #lisp 00:16:00 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec21d2c-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:16:14 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-150-46.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:19:07 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-159-62.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:28 kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 00:19:38 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:24:10 pjb: Do you ever do any work where the AGPL would be better? 00:25:07 gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@74.125.63.65] has joined #lisp 00:25:54 *p_l* chooses license based on purpose of sharing the code 00:27:15 Well, imo, if you wanted something like a freer Facebook, you'd want to use AGPL, not GPL 00:27:39 I'm not sure how good AGPL is, it's the *only* license that does what it does afaik 00:27:54 Aethaeryn: don't use GPL, you don't understand the license text, you probably don't understand the rammifications. pick something everyone understands, like MIT (no matter what the FSF tells you, they are the marketing machine of RMS) 00:29:06 scaremonger much? :P 00:29:36 madnificent: I actually like the Apache license because it has a patent clause 00:29:38 no, pick BSD! 00:29:51 Aethaeryn: personally, the more substantial the code I write, the more I want to be sure it gets used. 00:30:06 *ainm* likes the WTFPL 00:30:11 restricting the fruits of great effort is a good way to make them less ultimately rewarding. 00:30:15 Ralith: i'm genuienly scared of license texts i don't understand. why would i provide something for free and sign a license with my users that i don't understand? 00:30:17 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has joined #lisp 00:30:25 stassats: :P 00:30:49 you could take your time, go to a law school 00:30:59 Aethaeryn: license texts are no place to solve the patent issue. solve that by protesting against patents 00:31:34 stassats: then i wouldn't be writing code and have no problem to begin with. sounds rather dumb. my argument still stands though, i don't *have* to publish my code in GPL and I don't have to upstream the changes i make to gpl code. 00:31:40 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:32:12 a law degree wouldn't hurt 00:32:15 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 00:32:40 the gpl was invented to do good but did more harm than good, sad story is true, just use a really free license 00:32:43 *Phoodus* tends to commercially use and contribute back to non-GPL projects 00:32:53 stassats: you pay me a decent wage (decent is what i find good enough) to go to law school, and i will go. 00:33:20 and personally, I tend to go non-GPL and also give back 00:33:23 incf Phoodus, i do that too 00:34:15 slyrus: why does your blog say "completely useless"? 00:34:38 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:34:49 or new for that matter 00:34:55 Why would anyone want to be a lawyer? 00:34:59 Lawyers don't create things. 00:35:07 to earn big bucks 00:35:08 They at best defend, at worst destroy. 00:35:12 But they don't create. 00:35:33 stassats: when I started it was new and completely useless. no it's not so new. 00:35:46 many lawyers spend lots of their time helping clients understand legal systems & filling out complex forms for them. That's part of creation 00:35:50 in theory lawyers help to ensure that all people are treated equally 00:36:17 it's the courtroom proceedings that give lawyers a bad name 00:36:31 Phoodus: No, that's defense or assisting. 00:36:33 Not creating. 00:36:54 Phoodus: i think their cost and for which tasks they are hired, is what gives them a bad name 00:37:07 Aethaeryn: that's a fairly ivory-tower view, imo 00:37:07 Ensuring all people are treated equally, again, is something that defends someone's work, not something that actually creates a new good for society 00:37:34 Phoodus: I'm kind of like someone in an ivory tower, only not elite and not rich, so I suppose I'm in a treehouse. 00:37:56 Aethaeryn: yes, but it's a reason why you may want to become a lawyer: to ensure that people are treated equally. that way those free people can create new things, instead of being treated unfairly. 00:38:10 I highlit on treehouse 00:38:11 Well, yeah, but you're not doing the actual creative act. 00:38:24 creative acts do not happen without empowerment and freedom 00:38:30 how dare you defile treehouses for such a shitty simile 00:38:36 so there's a whole system of support leading up to creative works 00:38:40 FOR REALS, YO. BE ASHAMED. 00:38:48 O.o 00:38:52 I angered the treehouse lobby. 00:38:54 Time to lawyer up 00:39:14 Aethaeryn: no, and i'm not arguing with you about that. i'm saying that that may be a reason to want to be a lawyer. creating things is just one thing why a person may want to pursue a certain interest. 00:39:26 Phoodus: And I admire them for their sacrifice, but it's still sacrifice. Creation is the actual fun. :-P 00:39:28 *Phoodus* pulls in a woodchipper that makes paren-shaped chips 00:39:46 *sellout* uses the MIT license only because his wife went there, so it's easy for him to remember which license to use. 00:39:47 if everybody just had fun, nothing would get done 00:39:58 Phoodus: On the contrary, a lot of fun would get done. 00:40:02 so, in conclusion of this lawyer talk: use MIT/BSD or something else really really simple and short and which has been proven in court. don't try to be smart, be fair. 00:40:20 Phoodus: The trick is to hack your mind first, and make difficult, useful problems fun to you. 00:40:30 -!- TimKack` [~user@c-2ec29f2f-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:45 i'd use public domain, but some say it doesn't work 00:40:49 Aethaeryn: I sense a lot of projection going on, from the things you enjoy or value into projected absolutes 00:42:06 Phoodus: Well, I meant to say that law just wouldn't, to me, be fun or useful. 00:42:25 And I would assume that other people in #lisp would think similarly, since I would hope that there's some lisp hackers in here. 00:42:30 yet if you needed a lawyer, I bet you would be happy to get one ;) 00:42:49 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3B13.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:01 Phoodus: And if I need a plumber, I'd be happy to get one too. It's still not a fun job :-P 00:43:29 sure it's a fun job. To people who enjoy it 00:44:06 But there's something deeply fulfilling about a creative act 00:44:07 Aethaeryn: My friends who are lawyers seem to not be particularly enamored with it, but constantly refer to "the money" when talking about why they're still doing it. 00:44:16 sellout: Exactly! 00:44:23 (Interesting choice of name to make that point, too.) 00:44:37 clearly, it's better to be a banker 00:44:40 sellout: I know some who really enjoy it 00:44:49 of course, they choose their specialty 00:44:55 Aethaeryn: Given to me by my friends when I changed my major from music composition to CS. 00:45:19 Phoodus: Humans are incredibly adaptable to things they do frequently. Most people can learn to love something, or at least tolerate it, for most things. 00:45:33 sellout: CS is... meh 00:45:50 minion: do you want to be a lawyer? 00:45:51 sellout: CS is gluing together academic research with 'this is what the industry wants you to do in a cubicle farm' 00:45:51 you'd have to tell me... my memory circuits are fried 00:46:06 sellout: It's not very... hacker friendly in most universities 00:46:12 Phoodus: Yeah, I don't doubt it  one of my friends seemed like she was going down the path of enjoying it, but then she changed course from constitutional law to something that involves going to trial, and now she is not loving it. 00:46:41 Aethaeryn: I dropped out. But I later learned that there exist interesting programs (at places like Berkeley). 00:46:54 Probably. 00:47:21 paulgraham.com seems to suggest that you can have your cake and eat it too if you start a startup. 00:47:22 sellout: then you'd have to use BSD 00:47:36 *slyrus* went to berkeley, uses BSD 00:47:46 stassats: Actually, she went there for undergrad. Crap, now I'm going to get confused. 00:48:14 -!- Froward [~uh-oh@64.134.69.248] has quit [Quit: even in laughter, the heart of Snorlax is sorrowful. and the end of that mirth is heaviness.] 00:48:19 dual licensing it is! 00:48:21 sellout: you have two options, pick the 2 clause version of BSD, or use MIT (which only has one version) 00:48:37 WTFPL if you really don't care 00:48:48 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 00:50:40 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-39-113.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:51:22 What are CS programs teaching nowadays? Technically, the science of computing really isn't about the practical cubicle-farm issues 00:51:33 Phoodus: It's about Java ;-) 00:51:38 software engineering tends to be project management 00:51:50 Phoodus: If you're lucky, it's Java-on-Linux. If you're unlucky it's C#-on-Windows. :-P 00:51:57 CS is not software engineering 00:52:09 and IT is typically maintaining/configuring existing systems, not developing new ones 00:52:21 so the craft of creating software really isn't covered by any of those 3 labels 00:53:49 The craft of creating (good) software is covered by the label ``hacking'' and you learn it by coding a lot in a good language, and having the right mindset, and stuff. 00:53:55 Not by sitting in a classroom. 00:54:19 It also takes 10 years, not 2-4 00:54:58 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-62-54.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:55:48 sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 00:56:24 hello. is there a nicer way to do this? (intern (string 'foo) (find-package :package)) 00:56:38 (intern (string 'foo) :package) 00:57:03 or, 'package::foo 00:57:07 (intern "FOO" :package) 00:57:14 weird I have to convert it to a string first though 00:57:20 I have a symbol as a variable by the way 00:57:52 I could swear I tried just :package, guess I had something else wrong 00:57:56 ThomasH: and hear modern mode users scream 00:58:28 What's wrong with just entering 'foo at the REPL in the package? 00:58:30 sezo: but why do you need to do that? 00:58:58 ThomasH: requires a human operator 01:01:48 minion: version 01:01:49 This is the minion bot, running on a X86-64 (Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2500 CPU @ 3.30GHz) and running under SBCL 1.0.55.10-55577e8-dirty. 01:02:05 didn't know it had this command 01:03:05 -!- ainm [~ainm@56.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ((call/cc call/cc) (call/cc call/cc))] 01:03:09 minion doesn't run under sbcl, it runs over it! 01:03:18 pretty strange interpretation of "version", as it doesn't offer any info as to the version of the minion script actually running :-P 01:03:19 stassats i have a tree consisted of class names and make-instance arguments, my macro should walk that tree and create all the objects 01:03:37 macro? 01:03:42 sezo: why macro? You don't need a macro for that! 01:04:01 minion: quicklisp? 01:04:02 quicklisp: Quicklisp aims to make it easy to get started with a rich set of community-developed Common Lisp libraries. http://www.cliki.net/quicklisp 01:04:03 yes you're right 01:08:06 some of the eliza rules are quite strange 01:08:35 How does some of the eliza rules are quite strange make you feel? 01:10:53 minion: attack the Phoodus 01:10:54 die, phoodus 01:13:57 ThomasH: (intern "FOO" :package) doesn't work in modern-mode lisps. not common lisp, but still used from time to time 01:14:15 it works in modern-mode 01:14:22 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@74.125.63.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:14:50 stassats: it won't be compatible, will it? it will generate a symbol which is uppercase. modern-mode assumes 'foo is lowercase. 01:15:18 but it will work, maybe not how you want it to work 01:15:54 If it doesn't do what it's supposed to (= what you intended), it's not working 01:15:54 Is modern-mode in use anywhere besides Allegor? 01:16:01 *Allegro* 01:16:03 Ugh 01:16:09 clisp has it 01:16:14 stassats: sometimes this nitpicking is annoying on #lisp, it's like everyone is doing their best to not understand what is meant... 01:16:32 incf madnificent 01:16:38 a million times 01:16:53 stassats: not that it's always out of place. however, when you state that it does work. just add that it works, but probably not as expected. in that case you're not confusing people anymore than need be :) 01:16:55 jacius: ITYM (incf madnificent) 01:17:15 stassats: Obviously, I'm using a custom reader, duh. 01:17:17 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:31 stassats: feel free to comment on my misplaced periods and commas in that sentence, that wouldn't be out of place :P 01:17:33 But thanks for proving the point 01:17:37 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.224] has joined #lisp 01:19:35 ThomasH: similar to that use is the use of printing two symbols, concatenating them, and using the resulting string as input for intern. if *print-case* is set to :downcase, that doesn't work either. 01:19:46 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:08 ThomasH: pardon me, that doesn't yield the same results as to when *print-case* wouldn't be set to :downcase 01:20:31 how can i reach the car and cdr of cons cells in an alist, in a format directive 01:20:49 minion: tell madnificent yeah, dude 01:20:50 madnificent: duuuuuuuude 01:21:08 (that's one of those strange rules) 01:21:16 stassats: i wasn't mocking with my last comment to ThomasH :) 01:21:53 kenanb: can't 01:22:49 stassats: finally! i found something silly format can't do 01:22:57 depends on what you mean by reaching, though 01:23:06 ~/car/ ? 01:23:11 ah no, silly me 01:23:19 but you could create a directive for it 01:23:56 stassats: i have an alist that will be an argument to format, i want to skip the cars of cons cells in it 01:24:02 of course it can be done outside of format 01:24:09 i was just wondering 01:24:36 -!- chupish [182c5af4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.44.90.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:24:48 kenanb: are cdrs lists? 01:24:57 nope, string 01:25:09 (a . "string")? 01:25:15 yep 01:27:10 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:29:34 kenanb: format cannot deal with dotted lists. But (format nil "~:{~A~:^, ~}" '((1 . 2) (3 . 4))) works. 01:29:43 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:29:46 As long as you don't reach the dot 01:29:48 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-39-113.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:04 kenanb asked for 2, 4 01:30:29 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:04 kenanb: so you can write a cdr formater and (format nil ~{~/fmt:cdr/~:^, ~}" '((1 . 2) (3 . 4))) 01:31:21 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-218-200-111.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:31:58 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:28 what ,s föt? 01:33:32 is* 01:33:35 fmt* 01:33:40 sorry 01:33:58 a package 01:34:17 Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 01:34:51 -!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has left #lisp 01:35:14 Scanning over the Fanz modern mode page, it appears the motivation for modern mode is interoperability with other languages and data sources. Is ANSI mode really that big of an impediment to interoperability? 01:35:27 ThomasH: no 01:35:39 ThomasH: somewhat 01:35:44 but you might get tired of typing |quotes| 01:35:59 for example, commonqt has to use #_ reader macro for reading Qt names 01:36:09 so does CCL for its FFI 01:37:24 kenanb: well, in this case, the parameters and flags are not used so: (format nil "~{~/fmt:cdr/~^, ~}" '((1 . 2) (3 . 4))) ; but you could do something with them. 01:38:03 An advantage of the #_ reader macro is that it is a visual cue that you're doing something specific with the added advantage of not effecting the entire lisp system. 01:38:21 but where can I find this fmt package, i get no package named fmt error 01:38:29 kenanb: read my lines!!! 01:38:51 kenanb: try creating it 01:38:58 pjb: ah, pardon me 01:39:08 kenanb: it's not named fmt, it's named "FMT". Packages are named by strings. 01:39:09 ThomasH: calling a specific function is enough of a cue 01:41:00 ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 01:41:43 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:42:10 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-165-252-158.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:42:32 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:45:00 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:45:04 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:49:12 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:49:24 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:56:11 i need to bind my variable to text inside first opening and closing square brackets, but "\\[(.+)]\\s*(.*)" binds it to text inside first opening and last closing square bracket, how can i fix that? 01:56:55 what's the text? 01:57:30 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 01:58:10 like "[a]b]"? 01:58:14 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:15 then add ? after+ 01:58:44 my regex works in examples like [TEST] T11-EW342, but when it is [TEST] foo [bar] then it binds first variable to "test] foo [bar" 01:59:09 rrright, what i said 01:59:10 [TEST] Photopia 1.10 PHOTOMETRIC REPORT [LA-T0230] 02:00:08 can the first key be empty? 02:00:21 like [] Photopia 1.10 PHOTOMETRIC REPORT [LA-T0230]? 02:00:27 nope 02:00:56 anyway, "\\[(.*?)]\\s*(.*)" is the whole thing, works even with empty [] 02:02:00 stassats: thanks man, i tried it, works :) 02:02:17 (of course it works, you wrote it) 02:02:17 why am I not seeing any output in slime when printing to stdout from a separate thread? (bt:make-thread (lambda () (format t "test~%") (force-output))) 02:02:28 kenanb: correct! 02:02:42 sezo: it goes to *inferior-lisp* 02:03:10 pnq [~nick@AC8409C0.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:03:19 yes it's there 02:03:19 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:03:29 no way to get it in slime? 02:03:55 way 02:04:39 add (defparameter swank::*globally-redirect-io* t) to ~/.swank.lisp 02:07:42 hmm I have added that linke to .swank.lisp, restarted ccl, and swank::*globally-redirect-io* is still nil and I get no output 02:07:51 line* 02:08:45 then you added it to the wrong .swank.lisp 02:08:50 or forgot to save it 02:08:52 or aliens 02:10:35 I'm on windows. tried both d:/home, which is my $HOME directory, as well as C:/users/ ... , still didn't work 02:10:58 (merge-pathnames ".swank.lisp" (user-homedir-pathname)) 02:11:55 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:12:45 ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 02:13:29 thanks I got it, I ran emacs as admin for some reason, and ccl ignores $home variable 02:15:02 it uses USERPROFILE 02:15:21 yeah 02:15:44 does HOME have meaning on win32? 02:16:48 no, but many (most?) programs that originated from *nix use it to determine user directory 02:16:54 No, but on cygwin it does. 02:17:15 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:17:27 The bots are back?! WOO-HOO!! 02:17:41 We should have stassats Appreciation Day sometime. 02:17:54 ... Or Appreciation Week. 02:18:02 i have it everyday 02:18:09 You should /nick botmaster 02:18:45 minion: botsnack! 02:18:45 botsnack: thanks 02:22:13 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-39-113.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:23:34 lebro [~lebro@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:10 Hexstream: you noticed that the moment you joined? 02:25:24 Ralith: I read the #lisp logs religiously. 02:25:39 what for? 02:25:44 Can't miss one of stassats' witty jokes! 02:27:04 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 02:27:08 But seriously, I like to to get the pulse of the community to help me eventually produce relevant stuff. 02:27:48 what if you spend writing useful stuff instead of reading logs? 02:27:52 It's also one of very few forms of entertainment I allow myself. 02:27:54 spend time 02:28:06 I do that, too. I don't do much else. 02:29:05 -!- lebro [~lebro@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:30:38 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:31:05 lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:34 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:40:01 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-62-54.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:40:36 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-62-54.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:42:10 -!- PECCU [~peccu@ZL198047.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:42:35 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:43:14 bieber [~quassel@97.97.75.169] has joined #lisp 02:44:41 ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 02:45:11 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-62-54.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:48:14 superflit 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[~user@p4FF1C601.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 06:20:54 wow. sbcl core files really speed things up. 06:26:24 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81A78E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:33:36 -!- young_soul [~user@78.90.30.8] has quit [Quit: Timein error] 06:34:09 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 06:36:09 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129194179.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 06:37:23 benny` [~benny@i577A1310.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:41:25 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:41:29 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-69-212-229-190.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:42:20 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@108.87.21.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:43:45 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 06:44:20 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129194179.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:44:51 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:52:19 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 06:55:21 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:38 A style or design question: If you have a function that does something with an instance of a class do you always use generic function even if you know there won't be any other methods? Or do you write a normal function instead? 07:01:59 I use functions 07:02:12 it depends 07:02:55 but yes, my decision is based on something more subtle, namely how the procedure relates to the object 07:05:09 if it will be an API procedure, then I'll most likely use a method 07:05:19 open-world interpretation 07:06:12 dtw: if I don't need a generic function, I don't use a generic function. 07:06:23 you shouldn't think of generic functions as "functions that operate on classes" 07:06:43 you should think of them as "functions that have dynamic dispatch" 07:07:05 Ralith, i'd even just say "functions that dispatch" 07:07:09 ... on classes, mostly" 07:07:31 albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:31 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:07:31 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 07:07:36 metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 07:07:55 *H4ns* often uses eql dispatch 07:08:41 dtw: that is to say, there is nothing wrong or strange or ugly about a function processing a CLOS object. 07:10:39 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has left #lisp 07:11:01 lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:24 This is kind of naming thing too. When choosing to use generic functions I spend more time thinking of generic names too that _could_ be used later to specialize on some other classes. 07:13:56 if you need to do that later, make the change then. 07:14:00 don't overengineer if you can avoid it 07:14:23 But the probably isn't any "right choise" in the early stage of writing programs and experimenting. 07:14:31 this is Lisp; you're not going to have to change reams of boilerplate for every refactor, assuming you're doing things right. 07:14:33 I agree. 07:16:54 -!- lindes [~user@p4FF1C601.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:17:22 -!- sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (Session timeout)] 07:18:14 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:18:32 lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:34 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:22:51 MoALTz_ 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0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120310011224]] 09:11:20 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 09:13:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-185.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:14:19 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-131-82.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 09:14:34 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-131-82.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:59 -!- BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.13.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:22:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-107.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:22:17 BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.13.125] has joined #lisp 09:27:56 lindes [~user@p4FF1C601.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:28:08 -!- benny` is now known as benny 09:28:19 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-198-162.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:28:24 tic [~tic@c83-249-198-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:40:31 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 09:46:45 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.162.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:10 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:05 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:01:48 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has joined #lisp 10:12:28 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 10:23:45 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:27:40 leo2007 [~leo@111.194.110.214] has joined #lisp 10:31:53 -!- monotux` is now known as monotux 10:53:05 Whitesquall [~notwhites@31.172.196.244] has joined #lisp 10:53:34 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-17-11.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:05:06 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 11:05:42 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-143-55.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:06:39 ASau [~user@95-27-143-55.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:08:49 -!- mgr [~mgr@mail.phinn.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:15:28 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 11:18:29 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:22:53 is there exists cl online hyperspec somewhere? 11:22:55 with search 11:23:44 I find that googling lispy things tends to get me to a page on one of the several that exist... so... sorta? 11:23:45 i'm developing through ssh and my slimv cannot run browser to open links 11:24:31 i can't find googling it. google sends me to lispworks hyperspec or to the mit.edu 11:24:35 anonus: i use l1sp.org for lookup 11:24:42 anonus: and xach.com/clhs too 11:24:50 for search you might try lispdoc.com 11:25:23 oh, thanks for xach.com 11:25:35 it is what i searching for 11:26:12 anonus: what is wrong with the hyperspec on the lispworks site? 11:26:19 *anonus* added a keyword for search engine 11:26:29 is it legal to download it? 11:26:57 a tarball is available on the lispworks site. 11:27:08 one can imagine slime contrib module, that has it gzipped in slime dir, and adds it to C-c C-d symbol description 11:27:17 H4ns: there is no search 11:27:28 anonus: xach.com/clhs has no search either. only lookup. 11:27:30 maxm-: iirc Hextream wanted to do that 11:27:34 maxm-: yes. (ql:quickload "clhs") 11:27:50 anonus: that is what i use google for. i usually type "clhs whatever" to google and that leads me to the hyperspec. 11:28:06 anonus: lispdoc.com has real search, i think. 11:28:12 Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 11:28:29 H4ns: google is evil. i trying not to use it more that i need 11:28:33 hmm says not found, probably using too old ql 11:28:37 Xach: oh, ok, i'll try 11:28:47 thanks everyone 11:28:47 anonus: ah! well then, here is your tin foil head 11:28:49 hat 11:29:05 clhs car 11:29:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm 11:29:10 anonus: go there. 11:30:17 heh that module actually exactly what I had in mind 11:30:29 pjb: cool 11:30:36 anonus: just for the record, "clhs foo" works as well with duckduckgo 11:30:38 Xach: is clhs package provide some elisp library to use it in emacs? just like "swank" from ql repos.. 11:30:44 clhs shared-initialize 11:30:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_shared.htm 11:30:54 asvil: yes 11:31:21 it shows how to set up C-c C-d h to use the local spec 11:31:44 H4ns: it need one action more with google or duckduckgo than with xach lookup 11:34:14 ah, clhs:print-emacs-setup-form 11:34:47 clhs package gives me quciklisp-slime-helper-file-contents not defined in emacs, is it in slime? coz my slime is probably 6 months old 11:35:06 qu[ci]klisp-slime-helper-file-contents 11:35:32 yea I typed it incorrecly, but its correct in the error message 11:35:49 Xach: clhs:print-emacs-setup-form or the README should mention clhs:install-clhs-use-local 11:35:50 maxm-: sounds like an implicit dependency on quicklisp-slime-helper. 11:35:57 I did 11:36:06 daimrod, maxm-: tell Hexstream 11:37:01 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-17-11.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:37:14 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128682 11:37:32 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-17-11.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:37:53 maxm-: do you use quicklisp-slime-helper? 11:38:29 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:39:34 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 11:39:35 Xach: hmm no, unless its included in slime fancy, and README said nothing about it 11:39:39 how do I use it? 11:40:41 maxm-: you shouldn't have to use it to use clhs, so i think it's a clhs-the-bundle-from-Hexstream bug 11:40:42 ah I see its designed to work with slime installed via ql 11:40:45 maxm-: right. 11:41:18 he probably just used that function assuming its standard in quicklisp, without realizing its additional package if you run custom slime from your own dir 11:41:40 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-17-11.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:41:48 He's a compulsive log-scraper so I bet he'll fix it today. Hexstream! I call to you from beyond the Internet! Fix this! 11:42:02 *maxm-* found the function, its a 3 line helper, I'll just add it to ~/.emcas 11:42:33 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 11:42:55 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:26 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.194.110.214] has quit [Quit: home] 11:45:06 nah it needs entire thing. 11:45:26 oh well, anyway its a starting point, my idea was to put that info directly into C-c C-d text, not open a browser with it 11:45:57 I like to use emacs-w3m instead of firefox to browse the documentation. 11:47:29 xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has joined #lisp 11:47:45 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:48:39 actually thats pretty cool thing too, emacs-w3m has a minor mode where it can w3m'ify part of the buffer 11:48:48 pnq [~nick@172.163.6.158] has joined #lisp 11:48:49 wanderlust uses it 11:50:13 really? then it would be cool to open a *clhs* buffer browsable like the *Help* buffer. 11:50:59 clhs zip 11:50:59 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for zip. 11:53:51 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-136-158.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:01 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-131-82.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:56:18 see http://users-phys.au.dk/harder/dpans.html to have the hyperspec as info pages in emacs 11:56:28 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.119.30] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 11:58:23 stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.119.30] has joined #lisp 11:58:44 -!- xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:02:07 dim: thanks that actually looks pretty good, I'll try it and let ppl know if it works 12:03:15 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-136-158.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:03:47 dim: that's nice, though C-h C-i doesn't work for me, it's C-h S (info-lookup-symbol) 12:05:23 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:05:38 C-h i to enter info, select the right book, then i to use the index 12:05:46 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-140-234.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:05 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:08:58 dim: I was referring to the part in the article where it mentions to use C-h C-i to lookup the symbol at point in the spec. 12:13:02 ok, I now have "Ansi common lisp" in my M-x info top directory 12:13:17 and its browsable and stuff, just need to figure out why info-lookup-symbol not finding stuff 12:14:21 ainm [~ainm@56.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:00 this is the coolest thing ever :-) http://i.imgur.com/lm1Cg.png 12:15:00 12:16:49 hehe 12:16:57 dim: you the author? 12:17:04 not at all 12:17:28 it just was so strange to have hyperspec not be an info book that I kept searching :) 12:17:29 *maxm-* has a mind of making it into a installable system, that does all the stuff for you, and does not require root access for make install 12:17:51 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 12:17:52 I didn't use make install 12:18:04 install-info clansi.info dir 12:18:11 then add the path to Info-directory-list 12:18:13 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 12:18:38 dim: hmm I always have problem with info not picking up "dir" files from newly added diroctories, without emacs restart 12:19:05 Info-directory-list, then C-h i and *kill* the buffer, then C-h i again 12:19:21 *maxm-* hates restarting emacs that been up for 2-3 weeks, and have everything cached and buried and all the command histories etc 12:19:26 manual cache invalidation it is 12:19:30 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:19:52 desktop-save-mode is great to, and escreen also (but won't serialize) 12:20:51 ahh lookup-symbol did not worked coz it was for lisp-mode, it works from lisp mode.. Need to add slime-repl and others 12:20:55 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-165-252-158.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:23:55 NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.2.5] has joined #lisp 12:24:18 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:24:29 stassats: I applied the patch, https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/968837 its `failed to unlink C:\Users\DESUDE~1\AppData\Local\Temp/.run-program-f03420' 12:24:59 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:26:55 iterate is god-like lib 12:26:55 Martin____ [~Martin@146-52-105-158-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:27:01 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-140-234.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:27:38 -!- Martin____ [~Martin@146-52-105-158-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 12:28:04 yea iterates good 12:28:10 -!- pnq [~nick@172.163.6.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:28:28 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 12:28:39 no reason to use lists once you define vcollect macro clause to collect via vector-push-extend 12:29:16 pnq [~nick@ACA3069E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:11 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-17-11.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:30:28 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 12:33:43 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-17-11.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:54 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA3069E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:34:17 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-17-11.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:35:35 oh, btw about iterate 12:37:15 for example i have some method for class which gets index in some inner structure. can i make some kind of iterator for iterate to use it like (for i in (my-method my-instance)) ? 12:38:29 nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-17-11.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:38:34 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-17-11.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:39:35 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:40:48 pnq [~nick@ACA3069E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:41:08 yup, see iterate manual http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/doc/Extensibility-Aids.html#Extensibility-Aids 12:42:55 you'll have to use different word then in, as thats what it keys off, so it will have to be (iterate (for x in-subobjects-of my-instance)) or such 12:44:15 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:45:24 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.158.80] has joined #lisp 12:45:51 actually if you are using custom iterator object, then you can't use defclause-sequence. But you can use http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/doc/Generalized-Drivers.html#Generalized-Drivers or generators, and if syntax bugs you, use (defmacro-clause) to wrap it with syntax sugar 12:49:15 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:50:08 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA3069E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:50:29 maxm-: cool 12:50:53 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:51:34 pnq [~nick@ACA3069E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:49 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 13:01:31 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-236-160.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:59 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-408710.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 13:05:08 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-411009.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:05:09 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-39-113.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:05:37 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:05:38 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:05:38 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 13:07:20 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 13:13:34 -!- flip215 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:13:55 flip215 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 13:20:43 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:20:51 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:35 *Neronus* just got his own email address from google using oauth2 from Common Lisp \o/ 13:30:59 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA3069E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:32:33 pnq [~nick@ACA3069E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:33 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 13:38:14 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 13:42:39 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has joined #lisp 13:42:53 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:45:35 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has quit [Client Quit] 13:52:31 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 13:53:55 moah [~gnu@dslb-188-109-157-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:50 teggi [~teggi@123.21.162.137] has joined #lisp 13:56:02 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:45 Neronus: care to elaborate? not sure what you actually did. 13:58:24 zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:30 madnificent: meant successfully using oauth2 to authorize his code to get data from google 13:58:41 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:58:47 is there an emacs function i can call which has the same result as calling slime-connect, but which takes the file containing the port where swank is running as an argument? 13:58:55 p_l: Bingo 13:59:26 p_l: ah, i assumed it was that, but i couldn't parse it from the message. 13:59:28 Neronus: congrats! 13:59:37 so, we have oauth2 authentication: nice! 14:00:42 what? where?! Not here... https://github.com/skypher/cl-oauth -- so... ? 14:01:04 oh, on the swank question, it needn't be an interactive function. 14:01:06 madnificent: Well, it was a quick hack using drakma to get a proof of concept. Library is being developed. I'm not sure of the API yet 14:01:11 lindes: That's oauth1 14:01:24 Neronus: but it's coming, so that's cool 14:01:50 madnificent: It is 14:02:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:57 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:06:49 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA3069E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:07:13 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:07:19 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:07:31 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:08:35 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 14:10:56 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129194179.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 14:16:07 urandom__ [~user@p548A5BD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:56 -!- Whitesquall [~notwhites@31.172.196.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:18:21 -!- metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Quit: metaphysician] 14:23:34 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 14:25:24 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-16-203.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:52 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:29:56 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:30:37 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:30:45 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-66-219.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:30:47 So I'm writing a program where I receive a host to connect to, and there's a predefined path on that host I wish to do an http-request on. Because this input is from the user, I want to make sure that some common representations of the host name are understood correctly.. I've tried using PURI but I can't quite seem to get it to work very nicely.. 14:31:17 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-66-219.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:32:03 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:32:32 Assuming host is "host", I want to allow people to be able to write host, //host/, /host/, host:port, //host:port, host:port/ .. etc 14:32:57 Is there a library for this type of thing, or do I just roll my own thing? 14:33:03 zulu_inuoe: you'll have to normalize that yourself 14:33:33 zulu_inuoe: it is not a common thing to do the things you describe. 14:33:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:34:18 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 14:34:28 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 14:34:33 H4ns: Haha.. Perhaps I went a little overboard. Mostly I want to support host, host:port, //host, //host:port, scheme://host, scheme://host:port 14:35:09 since imo those are all sort-of-intuitive things that all have meaning 14:35:17 zulu_inuoe: i'm not aware of a library that does that. 14:35:26 H4ns: But thanks for the help. I just wanted to make sure that I'm not reinventing the wheel 14:35:46 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 14:35:56 araujo [~araujo@190.38.61.1] has joined #lisp 14:35:56 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.61.1] has quit [Changing host] 14:35:56 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:36:48 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:37:17 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:39:47 sounds like bad design, are you sure the user wants such choice 14:40:44 or inappropriate worry, either the checked URI works or it doesn't 14:40:51 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 14:41:46 We're in a windows environment and tools like remote control allow you to type things like "thatcomputer" to reffer to host "thatcomputer". Browsers allow you to type it that way as well, and also specify a port number 14:42:31 zulu_inuoe: sounds like good functionality to me. Exactly what most browsers impliment. If you roll your own, do share it with the world, OK? ;) 14:42:48 So it's just trying to be comformative to what people expect. Me personally, I didn't know that a proper host name was "//host" as opposed to "host" 14:43:23 well, //host or even \\host might be seen from windows users used to SMB-ish names... 14:43:40 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-236-160.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 14:43:56 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:44:01 zulu_inuoe: try puri 14:44:06 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:45:30 fe[nl]ix: I did, but it doesn't deal with these things directly. It's pretty strict, even when you turn *strict-parse* nil 14:45:36 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:46:50 zophy [~zophy@97-114-137-91.sxfl.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:21 I'll probably write something up and have it generate puri uris. Maybe a function like (defun layman-uri (host) ...) 14:47:43 or rather, (defun layman-uri (uri-designator) ...) 14:51:14 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 14:51:20 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:51:45 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-236-160.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:18 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@42-75-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:55 -!- lindes [~user@p4FF1C601.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:56:58 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:59:26 zmyrgel [~user@a91-153-149-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 15:03:46 is it possible to discard the effect of "defsetf" issued in the REPL ? say, i typed "(defsetf )" in the REPL, and now i want to cancel this effect for 15:03:52 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:54 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:04:25 AFAIK, defsetf is implemented at the discretion of the implementation itself 15:05:44 (so far, i found the only way - to call (unintern ')) 15:05:46 -!- nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-17-11.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:21 You should be able to do (fmakunbound '(setf )) 15:07:31 I might be wrong though 15:08:17 function name n. 1. (in an environment) A symbol or a list (setf symbol) that is the name of a function in that environment. 2. A symbol or a list (setf symbol). 15:09:49 wbooze| [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-104.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:09:51 -!- wbooze| [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-104.netcologne.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:09:54 So that'll work assuming the implementation defines the function (setf ) on defsetf.. I don't know if this is required by the standard or if like egnarts-ms says, is implementation-defined 15:10:10 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.206] has joined #lisp 15:10:17 wbooze| [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-104.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:10:19 -!- wbooze| [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-104.netcologne.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:10:43 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-169.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:10:51 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-104.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:10:53 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-104.netcologne.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:12:47 yeah, fmakunbound works good 15:13:17 when you try to do pass the symbol itself to it :) 15:18:26 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:22:18 zolk3ri_ [~zolk3ri@92-249-192-115.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 15:23:27 Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has joined #lisp 15:24:32 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.158.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:25:58 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:27:47 nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-118-40.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:28:34 -!- zophy [~zophy@97-114-137-91.sxfl.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:40 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-104.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:29:24 -!- zolk3ri_ [~zolk3ri@92-249-192-115.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:29:51 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:34:29 ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.89] has joined #lisp 15:37:33 (restas:genurl 'main) fails on windows/sbcl http://www.everfall.com/paste/id.php?gin57hqxvgwz 15:38:54 NeedMoreDesu: looks like you're calling genurl outside of the expected dynamic environment. 15:39:25 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:42:08 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:44:21 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:44:44 H4ns: It needs dynamic environment? I thought it just gives me url. 15:47:02 NeedMoreDesu: may be it do it relative to "current" route 15:50:04 Eyuup, it works. 15:52:14 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 15:53:29 tensorpudding_ [~michael@108.87.21.241] has joined #lisp 15:53:45 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 15:54:12 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:54:40 Sikander [~userid@54699806.cm-12-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 15:54:49 Good day 15:56:11 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-396602.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:57:37 Hi Sikander 15:57:47 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:57:51 I was just about to go through your email in detail. 15:58:09 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-408710.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:58:20 There's not much there, except some forms I wrote while on the train 15:58:31 And some timing of those forms 15:59:16 By the way, last time you asked me about my functions for reading/writing numerical ascii data 15:59:39 I put it somewhere, lemme get the url... 16:00:13 http://repo.or.cz/w/ascii-data.git 16:00:44 OK, I'll make a note of it. 16:00:47 It uses parse-float, which is conveniently located on the other side of the world: 16:00:48 https://github.com/soemraws/parse-float 16:01:32 Ok, if you ever do something with it, I'd love to hear some comments 16:02:10 I'll put it on the EGTDL 16:02:50 EG? 16:02:56 ever-growing 16:03:00 ah, of course 16:03:10 How's the course going :D 16:03:39 I've thrown in the towel 16:03:53 What? Did you at least get from it what you wanted? 16:04:03 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:04:19 Good course, but too much time for the potential usefulness to my research. 16:04:33 I'm still watching the lectures, and reading the book. 16:05:11 Ah, ok 16:05:21 Just not wrestling with Octave 16:05:46 It was helpful to me in a way, I learned some things about how Octave handles arrays. 16:06:29 Gives me ideas for grids. 16:06:51 francogrex [~user@109.130.107.153] has joined #lisp 16:07:07 -!- asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:07:31 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:47 So back to your email. You wish for grid:aref to be as fast as cl:aref on cl:arrays without declarations, correct? 16:08:17 Not necessarily as fast, just not an order of magnitude as slow. 16:09:23 Basically, I guess that the original problem, slow FFT tests, occur due to the fact that access to foreign arrays is quite slow. 16:09:49 Let's stick with one problem at a time. 16:10:09 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-118-40.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:10:24 I guess the problem is: how to make declarations such that it will speed things up? 16:11:07 If you remember, in an earlier e-mail I attempted use of declarations, but saw no speed-up. 16:11:13 So the problem I picked out was with "without declarations", is that where you noticed the 10x slowness? 16:11:55 I didn't try with declarations, since I apparently don't know how to use them. 16:12:05 can I remove restas route? 16:12:07 In grid's case, that is 16:12:11 I think there might be multiple causes to the problems you noticed, and I'd like to take them one at a time. 16:12:14 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 16:12:18 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 16:12:19 Ok 16:12:40 So: CL arrays, no declarations. 16:12:55 The first one I noticed was that aref on cl arrays is 10x as fast as grid:aref on cl arrays 16:13:13 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:13 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:07 So here's how the method is defined (defmethod aref ((grid array) &rest indices) (apply #'cl:aref grid indices)) 16:14:35 Does that mean that dispatching makes it an order of magnitude slower? 16:14:47 (at least, on sbcl) 16:14:51 Is it done by :method :delete? 16:14:52 It seems like the only additional delay introduced can be from the dispatch and the apply. 16:15:07 Right 16:15:20 Bugger 16:15:25 So... how do we speed that up? 16:16:26 Well, in a loop it doesn't make sense to do the dispatch each time. The array type won't change 16:16:43 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has joined #lisp 16:17:02 have a compiler macro (or deftransform) on grid:aref which, if it knows at compile-time (e.g. from a declaration) that its first argument is an array, rewrites the call as a call to cl:aref 16:17:04 Wouldn't this be a job for some macro or macrolet 16:17:18 I also had code somewhere which has per-call-site caches 16:17:38 you might want to declare indices dynamic-extent; I'm not sure if that actually makes things faster in this case 16:17:45 Krytzof: Yes, I was planning to do that. I'm trying to see if there's something that can be done without declarations. 16:18:20 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:18:20 Kryztof: declare indices dynamic-extent in the method? 16:18:38 or in the call? 16:19:19 in the method 16:19:59 NeedMoreDesu: you need to delete symbol from your restas module (package) 16:21:03 NeedMoreDesu: no (:method :delete) mean, that this route handle http delete request. 16:21:57 NeedMoreDesu: after deleting route you need to do in repl (restas:reconnect-all-routes) 16:22:06 Krytzof: OK. Is there a way to take advantage of SBCL's excellent type inference to do something like what Sikander suggested, i.e., pull the type inference out of the loop (in the case of no declarations). 16:24:31 nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-118-40.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:27:32 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.38.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:28:10 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-118-40.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 16:30:28 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:31:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:31:50 If I interpret the hyperspec correctly, implementations probably won't do anything with a dynamic-extent declaration on function arguments. 16:32:07 "Most compilers would probably not stack allocate the argument to g in f because it would be a modularity violation for the compiler to assume facts about g from within f. Only an implementation that was willing to be responsible for recompiling f if the definition of g changed incompatibly could legitimately stack allocate the list argument to g in f. " 16:32:57 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 16:32:57 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:54 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 16:33:59 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 16:34:10 minion: ping? 16:34:11 ping: pong 16:34:13 ok 16:35:08 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-235-210.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:10 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 16:36:00 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-228-201.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:12 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-69-212-229-190.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:53 rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 16:38:38 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:39:02 i think it had threads disabled for a reason... 16:39:04 albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:05 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:39:05 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 16:39:06 oh well 16:39:24 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:47 stassats`: what's the issue? 16:39:48 deech [~user@adsl-99-126-111-162.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:01 Hi all, does SLIME support an authenticated connection? 16:40:12 deech: yes 16:40:43 stassats`: Thanks, can you point me to some documentation. I was unable to find what I needed in the SLIME manual 16:40:57 bind the swank socket to localhost, and use an ssh tunnel. 16:40:58 LiamH: Hmm, how would I go about with using declarations for grid? 16:40:59 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:11 H4ns: I don't know yet 16:41:40 deech: it uses a file ~/.slime-secret 16:41:45 for the password 16:41:53 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 16:41:54 Sikander: (declare (type vector-double-float foo bar)) 16:41:59 Fade: it's bound to localhost 16:42:41 LiamH: do I need any (declare (optimize ...)) or should I see speed improvements immediately? 16:42:59 stassats`: Thanks I'll google that. 16:43:24 why do you need to google that? 16:43:48 i just said you what to do! 16:43:51 Sikander: If I've done things right, it should just use the compiler macros. However, here's where a printout in the form would be handy, to see if it's expanding correctly. 16:43:54 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:44:09 Ah, the compiler-macroexpand 16:44:11 stassats`: For the format of the file and how to hook it in. I'm a beginner! 16:44:26 you think too much for a bigenner 16:44:34 you create a file and you put your password into it 16:44:42 rwiker [~rwiker@233.80-202-200.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:44:56 I wasn't sure if it defaulted to localhost. 16:45:11 stassats`: Oh, ok then. I thought there was some public/private key thing I had to generate. That's simple! 16:45:19 and that's intended only for local connections 16:45:25 Sikander: yes, but I don't think that slime fn will work, because it doesn't see the env. 16:45:34 for network connections you would use what Fade suggests 16:45:38 LiamH: Ok 16:45:57 Fade, stassats`: Thanks! 16:46:34 LiamH: So to write a general function, I need to define a macro that will create optimized functions for each type, and a dispatching function for the type? 16:46:43 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 16:47:07 let's try one bot, but with threads 16:47:09 LiamH: It's not that I don't know how to do that, but I'm just asking if that would be the right approach 16:47:17 stassats`: BTW I assume you are the author of dynaspring. Thanks for that! I'm trying to get ABCL into a Spring-happy environment at work. 16:47:26 Sikander: that should do it, provided my compiler macros are getting used, and are correct. 16:47:37 deech: i'm not, how did you assume that? 16:47:42 LiamH: Right, ok. I'll have a go at it. 16:47:48 stassats`: you look kind of dynaspringy 16:48:24 LiamH: By the way, would these declarations also work for (declare (type array foo bar))? As in, would it make dispatching go away, or is that compiler/implementation-dependent? 16:48:25 Sorry, given your username I thought your name might be Alessio Stalla 16:48:30 maybe Alessio Stalla's name mildly resembles my nick 16:48:33 Sikander: let me know if the macros are being used or not, and if they look right. 16:48:43 deech: alessio goes by astalla 16:48:48 deech: usually 16:48:53 stassats`: Ok, my mistake. 16:48:56 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-50.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:09 LiamH: As I understand, the only way to see if your macros are being used is to see a boost in performance 16:49:12 Sikander: I've not yet written a compiler macro for cl:array, but I'm working on it. It should work if I do that. 16:49:24 maybe i have ad dissociative disorder, who knows? 16:49:25 LiamH: excellent! 16:50:02 Sikander: I think we can put a print in the macro, so when it's expanded, it prints the expanded form. 16:50:14 LiamH: Ah, ok. 16:51:10 LiamH: By the way, I tried to use antik's cffi-libffi branch, but there was some problem with missing symbols (if I remember correctly) in cffi. 16:51:23 LiamH: Even though I'm using the latest cffi 16:51:41 Sikander: you need to be using the libffi branch of CFFI. 16:51:43 LiamH: I'm using cffi from git (master branch) 16:51:47 ah 16:53:12 LiamH: do you mean the fsbv branch of cffi? 16:53:20 lindes [~user@p4FF1C601.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:53:21 No I don't 16:53:27 I mean the libffi branch 16:53:50 git checkout libffi 16:54:02 ?! git branch -a doesn't show that one... 16:54:19 git fetch? 16:54:51 Any math/graphics types want to clue me in on how to draw a normal curve using Bezier curves? 16:55:27 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 16:55:54 git clone is the normal command... but you'll need a URL... 16:56:08 LiamH: I'm looking at the git repo on common-lisp.net and only see master, grovel++ and fsbv as heads. Those are also the only ones that show up as branches with git branch -a 16:56:17 oh, sorry, I'm not paying full attention, I think 16:56:39 Sikander: clone from repo.or.cz, that's the official repo 16:56:57 The syncing between repo.or.cz and cl.net must have failed. 16:57:08 LiamH: D'oh! Thanks 16:57:32 So what's the preferences/reasons for using github or repo.or.cz? 16:57:36 I thought cl.net was set up to sync every 15 minutes, but I guess not. 16:57:47 -!- diginet [~diginet@ppp-70-246-16-75.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:58:01 Oh sorry, arg 16:58:18 Pull CFFI from github, I was thinking about Antik. 16:58:26 d'oh! 16:58:39 github is the official location for CFFI 16:59:16 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-396602.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:44 git clone git@github.com:cffi/cffi.git 17:00:18 That URL came right out of my CFFI clone from git remote -v show, so bypassing my confused brain. 17:00:49 I've got it. 17:01:06 So what are generally the considerations when deciding between repo.or.cz and github? 17:01:07 It has the libffi branch, right? 17:01:10 yes 17:01:13 good 17:01:44 I'm cloning/compiling etc now 17:01:55 -!- ainm [~ainm@56.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:02:02 ainm [~ainm@56.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:09 Generally? I guess there are good and bad points to each. 17:02:55 [6502] [5e24f39c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.243.156] has joined #lisp 17:03:01 Yes, generally, well, for a lisp project (if that makes a difference) 17:03:26 -!- nowhereman is now known as nowhere_man 17:03:26 I don't know of any lisp-specific issues between the two. 17:03:35 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:03:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:04:13 H4ns: now that a single bot seems to run normally, i assume that when two are run with threads they interfere with each other 17:04:53 damn this stupid libffi location problem... 17:05:21 That should work OK. 17:05:34 jdowner [~jdowner@pool-173-76-55-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:54 ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.90] has joined #lisp 17:05:58 mel0on [1000@h-70-73.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 17:06:24 LiamH: No, stupid libffi insists on installing into a directory that has a version name 17:06:34 version in its name 17:06:42 Are you on a Mac? 17:06:46 As such: /usr/lib64/libffi-3.0.10/include 17:06:49 No, linux 17:06:55 -!- jdowner [~jdowner@pool-173-76-55-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:07:09 CFFI should pick that up. 17:07:28 Ah, it's not the lib it can't find, it's the .h files. 17:07:34 yes 17:07:47 I think that's different. 17:07:55 Interestingly, it's during gsll compile that it complains. quickloading cffi works fine 17:08:20 I don't know that there's an include path like there is a lib path. 17:08:48 Right, CFFI doesn't use any libraries. You have to load cffi-libffi to trigger that problem. 17:08:52 oh no, tomorrow is the most stupid day on the internet 17:08:54 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-208-156.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:08:56 stassats`: hm. how's it with lisppaste? any ideas about the white page? 17:09:10 stassats`: (for the threading, maybe a global lock would help?) 17:09:22 haven't figured that far yet 17:10:03 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:10:12 daimrod: "05:04:08 dim: that's nice, though C-h C-i doesn't work for me, it's C-h S (info-lookup-symbol)" <-- Apparently Emacs treats C-i as TAB at a fairly low level. 17:10:23 maxm, Xach: Sorry guys, there's indeed a (silly) copy/paste bug in my clhs wrapper's clhs-use-local.el. "quicklisp-slime-helper-file-contents" should have been "quicklisp-clhs-file-contents" (which is defined in the file). 17:10:27 I didn't detect this problem despite testing because I always loaded quicklisp-slime-helper, predictably. There is no actual dependency to quicklisp-slime-helper. I'll make a 0.4 release very soon to fix this. 17:10:31 LiamH: is it possible to use the output of pkg-config as cflags in libffi-unix.lisp? 17:10:32 (For reference: https://github.com/Hexstream/clhs/issues/4) (I got your message from beyond the internet, Xach!) 17:10:36 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-196-52.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:04 Eatime. 17:11:19 LiamH: and thus once and for all stop worrying, update cffi without editing that file, and love the bomb? 17:11:23 Sikander: maybe, but I've tried to avoid those things. That's properly in the domain of cffi or cffi-grovel. 17:11:49 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@233.80-202-200.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:11:50 LiamH: Ah, but it comes from fsbv, right? 17:11:54 Sikander: you might want to send an email to cffi-devel. 17:12:02 Ok 17:12:06 fsbv doesn't exist anymore. 17:12:19 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:12:28 It's been superseded by cffi-libffi. 17:12:35 I mean, it used to be an issue in fsbv, now it's in cffi; I guess this happened when they "merged" 17:12:56 I tried to complain upstream (i.e. libffi) but they are convinced that this is the way it should be done 17:13:05 Well, not really. The problem you describe is true of any foreign header file (and library), so CFFI ought to solve it. 17:13:25 I don't think it's libffi's problem. 17:13:44 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.107.153] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:13:58 I think it is; I find it mildly annoying that they find it necessary to place header files in a directory that has a version string 17:14:08 I should say cffi-grovel, because that's the system that needs to find header files. 17:14:16 I'll annoy them 17:14:39 Take a look at what the FHS says before you annoy them; it may be acceptable. 17:16:59 LiamH: I guess I'll ask cffi-devel about using pkg-config in cffi-grovel 17:17:06 Actually, that's your distro's doing, but since libffi is (or was) maintained by Red Hat, maybe those are the same people. 17:17:07 LiamH: That fixes the whole problem 17:17:37 So pkg-config gives the right answer? 17:17:41 Yes 17:18:26 gsll still complains: unknown cffi type: STAT 17:18:53 Well there you go. If you have a patch to cffi-grovel, I can commit it (off the master branch), but I would run it by luis for acceptability anyway. 17:19:14 -!- rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 17:19:17 Don't know about your GSLL error. 17:19:32 dammit, I'll remove some fasls and try again 17:19:37 rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:56 -!- mgodshall [~quassel@pool-108-36-207-226.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 17:20:10 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@42-75-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:20:24 Sikander: time for lunch, back later. 17:20:32 Ok, later 17:20:53 I'll continue looking at the compiler macros. 17:21:18 LiamH: removing stale fasls worked: gsll compiled 17:21:23 Ah, good 17:23:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:24:39 mgodshall [~quassel@pool-108-36-207-226.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:40 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:33 do the 285 cffi-tests take a _long_ to complete or is this thing hung? 17:26:10 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:26:35 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:26:41 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-16-203.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:26:48 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-120-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:28:04 slyrus: see *inferior-lisp* 17:28:23 no problems there 17:28:23 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 17:29:10 maybe this wasn't meant to run from slime 17:30:25 -!- rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 17:30:48 rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has joined #lisp 17:31:07 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-217-97.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 17:31:58 -!- zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32:17 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:32:32 zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:45 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:59 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:16 Anyone happen to recall what year ASDF was created? 17:34:16 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:27 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:44 robot-be` [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:06 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:25 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-38-160.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:35:43 looks like we're waiting for a lock we're not going to get. does cffi-libffi run on mac os? 17:35:44 <[6502]> "The consequences are undefined if environment is non-nil in a use of setf of compiler-macro-function." ? 17:35:48 -!- TheMoonMaster [~TMM@reddit/operator/themoonmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:35:52 Ah, never mind, just noticed it's mentioned at the bottom of http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/ . 2001 17:36:08 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-136-158-113.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:36:34 chturne [~chturne@host86-136-158-113.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:37:22 *jacius* thinks "2001: A System Definition Fodyssey" Da... daa.. daaaa... da dum! Bum dum bum dum bum dum... 17:37:51 TheMoonMaster [~TMM@reddit/operator/themoonmaster] has joined #lisp 17:38:01 *[6502]* just noticed that ASDF is [caps-lock][a][s][d][f] 17:38:14 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:38:18 Hah :D 17:39:17 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-38-160.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:39:20 rpgsimmaster_ [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has joined #lisp 17:39:35 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:39:43 -!- rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:42:19 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 17:44:38 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:44:45 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:44:53 albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:53 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:44:53 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 17:48:18 rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has joined #lisp 17:48:23 -!- rpgsimmaster_ [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:49:45 gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-92-165.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:56:46 <[6502]> pizzatime 17:58:39 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@108.87.21.241] has quit [Quit: tensorpudding_] 17:58:50 tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.21.241] has joined #lisp 17:59:31 rpgsimmaster_ [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has joined #lisp 18:00:00 -!- rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:00:23 albacker_ [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:55 -!- albacker_ [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:12 Is there anyone here that works on alexandria? I have a parse-float function and wondered if such a function doesn't belong in alexandria. 18:02:01 there is a separate lib called parse-number which includes parse float 18:02:05 think its in ql 18:02:31 parse-number parses floats into a number, not into a float 18:02:35 afaik 18:02:46 float is a subtype of number 18:03:10 sorry, it parses it into a rational number 18:03:17 no, quotient 18:03:35 neither 18:03:45 type-of gives ratio 18:03:52 (parse-number:parse-real-number "123.45") => 123.45 18:04:25 ah, I always just used parse-number... I'll have a look 18:04:40 no, parse-number will do that too 18:04:58 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:12 the difference is in (parse-number:parse-number "#c(3.0 2.0)") => #C(3.0 2.0), (parse-number:parse-real-number "#c(3.0 2.0)") => NIL 18:05:23 type-of says single-float 18:05:27 minion: what's the difference between parse-real-number and parse-number? 18:05:28 parse real number has similar features but longer hair 18:05:32 how to get a double-float? 18:06:08 -!- flip215 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:06:22 (let ((*read-default-float-format* 'double-float)) (parse-number:parse-real-number "1.3e+3")) 18:06:41 ah it uses read? 18:06:59 Ok, that's not what I meant 18:07:08 fe[nl]ix: that returns me 1300 18:07:15 so, it's broken, indeed 18:07:18 I'll start again: I have a function, parse-float, that parses into a float 18:07:28 and you can specify if you want a single- or double-float out. 18:07:34 -!- rpgsimmaster_ [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:07:40 rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:45 I found this a useful counterpart to parse-integer 18:07:55 stassats`: you must have an old version 18:08:23 (type-of (parse-number:parse-real-number "1")) 18:08:23 BIT 18:08:33 (type-of (parse-number:parse-real-number "10")) 18:08:33 (INTEGER 0 4611686018427387903) 18:08:46 Sikander: what would you expect? 18:09:05 Sikander: Your function sounds useful, and it would probably fit well in the parse-number library :) 18:09:06 stassats`: https://github.com/sharplispers/parse-number 18:09:09 *sigh* I was talking about parse-float, i.e. will return a float (single- or double) 18:09:46 (float (parse-number:parse-real-number "10") 1d0) 18:09:55 actually no it seems to do everything manually, but it supports "123.45d0" 18:10:09 it ignores the *read-default-float-format* it looks like 18:10:50 maxm-: not anymore 18:10:54 ah cool 18:11:03 Sikander: The attitude around here can be discouraging at times, try not to let it get you down :) 18:11:10 not in ql yet? coz I did dist-upgrade or whatever 18:11:33 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-50.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:11:37 jacius: thanks :) I thought there might be some interest, but at least I have a use case for it, so it's fine 18:11:42 jacius: yes, the attitude is not to do things twice 18:12:19 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-50.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:48 Sikander: If your function parses directly to a float, I think it might be worthwhile submitting it as a patch to the parse-number library 18:13:13 jacius: it does, and I might. thanks 18:13:29 Cool :) 18:14:53 don't submit your code, just patch parse-number* to have keywords like :coerce 'double-float and :float-format 'double-float 18:16:44 lispm [~lispm@d176053.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 18:17:55 stassats`: should I then also patch it to have the :junk-allowed keyword? 18:18:08 -!- ainm [~ainm@56.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ((call/cc call/cc) (call/cc call/cc))] 18:18:58 if you want to 18:19:12 *sigh* 18:19:40 here's a patch for http://paste.lisp.org/display/128689 :float-format 18:19:51 In other words, don't do anything twice, just see what's closest and patch it to do your bidding... 18:21:53 *stassats`* nudges fe[nl]ix 18:23:16 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 18:25:07 and i don't think that you need :coerce, (coerce (parse-number string) 'double-float) is as good as (parse-number string :coerce 'double-float) 18:26:02 (parse-number:parse-number "1.3 ") => 1.003 18:26:27 disregarding whitespace and :junk-allowed would be worthwhile 18:26:37 -!- lindes [~user@p4FF1C601.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:27:03 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:31:05 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.108] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:15 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:23 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:31:28 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.243] has joined #lisp 18:32:14 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.74] has joined #lisp 18:35:32 snearch [~snearch@f053015029.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:35:46 Imho coerce is wrong way 18:36:02 coz high precision float will get parsed as single, then converted to double losing precision 18:36:27 asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:36:34 you want it to support *read-default-float-format*, the place to patch is where it multiplies stuff by 10.0 vs 10.0d 18:36:36 10.0d0 that is 18:38:00 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-16-203.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:38 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:39:08 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:40:09 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:17 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-16-203.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:42:30 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has left #lisp 18:43:20 albacker_ [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:40 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.119.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:43:53 -!- albacker_ [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:52 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:45:09 I have a macro that defines a set of functions and a function that dispatches to those functions based on type. Is it absolutely bad style to have those functions have a name that's produced by gensym? 18:45:37 ... to have those functions have names ... 18:46:36 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-92-165.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 18:47:20 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:47 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:20 Sikander: If they are functions that are not exposed for people to call directly, using a gensym sounds like a good practice to me. Or if you can structure your macro so they can be anonymous functions (lambdas), that would probably be even better. 18:49:57 jacius: Ah, that sounds better indeed. thanks 18:52:47 yes, using gensym is bad for debugging 18:53:24 define them dispatch-list, dispatch-integer, dispatch-etc 18:54:34 stassats`: That sounds prone to name collision, if you use the macro more than once in the same package 18:54:46 stassats`: https://github.com/sharplispers/parse-number/commit/51e5d924bb0ddf6e25a408d362acf76ef9da4e26 18:54:52 more patches are welcome 18:55:01 fe[nl]ix: cool 18:55:14 jacius: then don't use it more than once 18:55:27 stassats`: You have such wonderful advice :) 18:55:57 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:57:03 stassats`: Have you read my message? https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/968837 still isn't working. 18:57:13 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.162.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:30 i didn't 18:57:34 It works fine with a lambda 18:57:41 gensym has an extra argument that is there so that debugging can be made easier. 18:57:44 NeedMoreDesu: you applied the patch and recompiled sbcl? 18:57:50 Sikander: good luck debugging 18:57:51 Sikander: Awesome :) 18:57:52 prxq: Yes, I considered that 18:57:54 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.204] has joined #lisp 18:57:57 (gensym "foobar") etc 18:57:57 you could at least use named-lambda 18:58:16 stassats`: named-lambda? 18:58:19 Nope, I loaded it from my active sbcl, ignoring errors 18:58:28 Because it's locked 18:58:42 prxq: yes, but since it's a homeless symbols, it's hard to reach it 18:58:50 Sikander: alexandria:named-lambda 18:58:52 `failed to unlink C:\Users\DESUDE~1\AppData\Local\Temp/.run-program-f03420' 18:59:00 stassats`: thanks, I'll have a look 18:59:07 NeedMoreDesu: now, that's a different error 18:59:08 stassats`: what is a homeless symbol? 18:59:22 It unlinks it just after the place you fixed. 18:59:23 NeedMoreDesu: leave a comment there, i don't use windows 18:59:29 ah, reading backlog is a good idea 18:59:48 Oh, o'key. 18:59:50 prxq: a symbol without a package 19:00:34 -!- rgc [~user@173.Red-79-158-82.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:36 asvil: >you need to delete symbol from your restas module (package) 19:00:36 How do I do it? 19:00:43 uninterned symbol 19:00:51 NeedMoreDesu: UNINTERN 19:00:59 Thanks. 19:01:06 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:50 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:02:03 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-134-25-21.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 19:02:35 why wont this work in common lisp? (((lambda () (lambda ())))) 19:02:42 because it's invalid 19:03:06 i expected it to work 19:03:14 adjust your expectations 19:03:16 i mean you can directly call a lambda expression 19:03:32 mcstar: Alas, you can't use returned lambdas like that. You'll need to use funcall 19:03:33 mcstar: yes, but not a function value 19:04:43 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 19:04:44 mcstar: the lambda in the car of a cons to be evaluated is a special case in the evaluator, not a general thing 19:05:15 thats helpful Xach thanks 19:05:27 clisp says it needs a symbol there 19:05:28 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:53 it doesn't say that it needs a symbol 19:06:10 "try using a symbol instead 19:06:13 " sry 19:07:26 i picked up lisp agan, trying to get to the bottom of it 19:07:34 anyway thanks 19:08:04 mcstar: Have fun with that :) 19:08:30 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-69-212-229-190.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 19:09:27 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 19:10:20 Common Lisp is Rad 19:10:31 That it is! 19:11:12 It's even tubular. The (s are like waves that you can surf to victory. 19:11:45 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:11:49 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129194179.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:11:50 Btw how can I unbound/free some symbol, leaving nothing where it was? 19:12:00 DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:14 can't do that 19:12:44 Why? 19:12:47 NeedMoreDesu: You probably want unintern. Or maybe makunbound or fmakunbound 19:13:27 NeedMoreDesu: because there's no way to do that 19:13:53 if you hold something somewhere, you can't get rid of it until nothing holds it 19:14:28 stassats`: How about you take a break from "helping" for a while, eh? 19:14:50 jacius: how about you stop picking on me? 19:15:43 stassats`: I'll do that when you stop picking on everybody else :) 19:17:08 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:20:11 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-153-120.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:25 (defvar 'x) (unintern 'x) (makunbound 'x) (describe 'x) 19:21:46 jacius: Fuck off. 19:21:59 NeedMoreDesu: your defvar is a bit off 19:22:05 jacius: Friendly ignorance is worthless. 19:22:17 NeedMoreDesu: but if you evaluate it in the repl, each time you read 'x it will be interned again 19:22:50 NeedMoreDesu: can you describe what you really are trying to do? 19:23:13 stassats`: yep, i mean (defvar x 'some-value) 19:24:56 NeedMoreDesu: so, what is it you are trying to accomplish? 19:24:59 Ah, it's actually working. Right. 19:25:12 There 19:25:46 mcstar: Car of (((LAMBDA NIL (LAMBDA NIL)))) is not a function name or lambda-expression. 19:26:01 that's with CCL (Clozure Common Lisp) and seems more helpful an error message 19:26:19 Xach: I'd rate friendly ignorance above constant antagonism. I'm trying to help people accomplish what they're trying to do, rather than berate them for every little mistake. 19:26:38 jacius: Good goal. Stick to it. Nobody is berating anyone for little mistakes here. 19:26:49 no? 19:27:04 jacius: Don't attack people who provide excellent and precise help in a way you don't like. 19:27:43 NeedMoreDesu: note that evaluating (makunbound 'x) after (unintern 'x) isn't really meaningful 19:28:34 still, unintern doesn't make the symbol go away, it just removes it from its package 19:29:36 there are more ways things are bound to symbol (makunbound 'x), (fmakunbound 'x) (setf (find-class 'x nil) nil), (setf (symbol-plist 'x) nil) 19:30:28 -!- lispm [~lispm@d176053.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 19:30:31 Xach: I'm not attacking anyone. But stassats` style of "helping" seems to always involve a knock on the head, followed by a detailed explanation of why they are ignorant. I don't consider that helpful behavior. 19:30:52 jacius: You are attacking stassats, fool. 19:30:56 jacius: Don't. 19:30:58 it's not nice to read either 19:31:09 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 19:31:12 and despite what jacius friendly said, homeless symbol is not the same as uninterned symbol 19:32:13 stassats`: We were talking about gensyms, which are uninterned symbols. 19:32:19 dim: thanks 19:32:32 i think i have some misconception wrt evaluation 19:33:13 OK, here's the alpha stage of an oauth2 library: https://github.com/Neronus/oauth2 In examples/ there is an example showing how to communicate with the google API to get a user's profile. Comments and criticism are welcome :) 19:34:05 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:34:12 jacius: there are homeless too 19:34:15 im not sure whats behind stassats` answer, maybe he expects me to figure it out myself so thats why he is a bit vague? 19:34:58 mcstar: "why something is the way it is" is really a bad question 19:35:05 so, i gave you an equally bad answer 19:35:07 mcstar: http://l1sp.org/cl/3.1.2.1 gives all the rules 19:35:09 -!- zmyrgel [~user@a91-153-149-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:35:29 sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 19:36:04 3.1.2.1.2 in particular explains how (...) is evaluated for each legal car 19:36:39 k, will read it 19:39:46 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-16-203.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:04 stassats`: I haven't often seen the term "homeless symbol", but I'd be interested to hear how they are different from an uninterned symbol (which is also a symbol that doesn't belong to any package) 19:40:59 If a symbol is uninterned from the package which is its home package, its home package is set to nil. Depending on whether there is another package in which the symbol is interned, the symbol might or might not really be an uninterned symbol. A symbol with no home package is therefore called apparently uninterned. 19:42:00 jacius: http://l1sp.org/search/apparently 19:42:19 LiamH: I've been running some tests with declarations (on foreign arrays). I see a 5-15% increase in speed. 19:42:24 stassats`: I see, thank you 19:42:45 Sikander: Interesting. 19:43:14 jacius: If you really want to figure it out, you can read "www.flownet.com/gat/packages.pdf" where it is also explained (with an example) IIRC 19:43:31 Sikander: I'm pulling your tests out of the email and putting in a file. I want to start with aref rather than (setf aref) though. 19:43:47 LiamH: Ok. 19:44:04 Neronus: Thanks, I'll give that a read :) 19:44:16 Sikander: I think I have a fix for the cl:array problem, when declared. 19:44:23 thats weird, i had that file already in my Downloads dir 19:44:24 LiamH: What I just said, 5-15% increase, is on setf grid:aref on foreign arrays, btw 19:44:34 Right 19:44:36 Ron Garret's package guide is pretty terrible but there isn't anything that much better yet. 19:44:48 LiamH: What's the fix? 19:45:56 In foreign-array/methods.lisp, I generalize the second argument to when-declared-expander to expand an 'array type with cl:aref. 19:46:10 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:46:27 erran gat is his pseudonym? 19:46:41 he changed his name 19:46:43 his original real name. 19:47:14 LiamH: man, I can learn so much from the antik and gsll code... 19:47:15 Sikander: so the fact that you see a speed increase indicates that the compiler is reading the declarations and compiler macros. 19:47:25 LiamH: I assume so 19:48:00 Sikander: learn much about the code itself, or about other code, or about Lisp, or about life in general? 19:48:21 LiamH: isn't learning about Lisp identical to learning about life? 19:48:30 Of course. 19:48:54 I'm still waiting for the "My god it's full of car's" moment in my life... 19:48:55 NeedMoreDesu: you haven't left a comment on that launchpad bug! 19:49:14 if you don't want to register, i can be a proxy, but you need to give me the exact error message 19:49:21 Sikander: there's no need to use car, I never do. 19:49:27 LiamH: I mean, the use of all sorts of macros gives quite some insight. 19:50:23 LiamH: Lemme check something wrt the speed increase; I just saw it could be due to something else. 19:55:28 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-69-212-229-190.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:28 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-69-212-229-190.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:02:32 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:42 LiamH: Hmmm... 20:03:33 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 20:05:19 LiamH: nope, it seems I made a mistake. I took an if outside of the loop in the function with declaration, but forgot to do so in the function without declaration. 20:05:49 LiamH: Now, the loops are identical, and one function has declarations while the other hasn't 20:05:51 stassats`: Oh, sorry. I'll register/post now. I'm playing with restas. How do I make GET like in php? Do I need to parse things like id=1&message=i+am+a+message myself? 20:05:57 Sikander: and...? 20:05:59 LiamH: there's not much difference 20:06:03 :-( 20:06:17 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:06:20 NeedMoreDesu: i don't think anybody here uses restas 20:07:36 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 20:08:12 LiamH: I have a function that has no declarations, and a function that has a typecase on the vector and runs a lambda with declarations 20:08:17 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-147-113.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:18 LiamH: No difference 20:08:35 LiamH: unless typecase and funcalling a lambda takes up all the speed advantages, which I seriously doubt 20:09:37 Sikander: Do a trace on grid::using-declared-type and re-compile (one function at a time). 20:12:13 LiamH: What should I be looking for? 20:12:27 First up: output. Do you get any? 20:12:44 I.e., trace output 20:13:03 I get a whole shitload of output, yes 20:13:14 stassats`: What do they use, then? 20:13:29 Sikander: paste? 20:13:39 NeedMoreDesu: you need to ask them 20:13:43 LiamH: Ah, ok. 20:13:53 I mean, for web. 20:13:55 LiamH: one sec.... 20:14:01 -!- sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has left #lisp 20:14:07 Kron [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has joined #lisp 20:14:11 I'm not sure why you get a lot, shouldn't be more than one per aref form. 20:14:23 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 20:15:01 ainm [~ainm@56.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:28 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:16:34 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 20:16:38 clhs 1.1 20:16:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/01_a.htm 20:20:20 minion: chant 20:20:20 MORE THAN 20:20:58 Hmmm, i pasted something, but not much is happening... 20:21:17 link? 20:21:28 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:21:51 It's just hanging... "connecting, waiting for reply" blablabla... 20:22:05 Oh. 20:22:13 Disappointing. I'll try again 20:24:09 Goddammit! 20:24:44 -!- simon_weber [u4119@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-awgtpswmmpsrtpme] has left #lisp 20:25:00 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:25:07 please direction your attention: Sikander pasted http://paste.lisp.org/display/128694 20:25:12 i'm the new bot 20:26:25 stassats`: Thank you 20:26:26 Thanks stassats` 20:26:34 -!- EyesIsMine [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:54 I don't know what's going on; when I submit, I just get a blank page... 20:27:09 right, that it does 20:27:16 Sikander: Compiler macro is a no-op, evidently. 20:27:22 Grrr. 20:27:36 LiamH: Dammit, I need to be able to read these things... 20:28:09 Sikander: is javascript enabled? 20:28:13 LiamH: Hum, I needed to get some dinner about 2.5 hours ago... I'm getting a bit hungry 20:28:22 Sikander: Look at the "returned" line very near the bottom. It's returning (FUNCALL #'(SETF GRID:AREF)...). 20:28:26 Ralith: I'll check, but it should be 20:28:38 Sikander: OK, don't program hungry. 20:28:40 *Ralith* was having that issue, but thought it was because of noscript 20:28:42 :D 20:28:47 Ralith: no, that's not it 20:28:56 kay 20:29:31 Sikander: are you getting back on IRC after dinner? 20:29:52 I'm on IRC, I'm just taking a few steps to the kitchen to grab something. brb 20:30:15 newsham [~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:30 Kitchen near computer, excellent idea. 20:30:44 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-50.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:30:47 slightly off topic, but anyone here know how to pass a function to a function in logo, and then how to call that function? 20:30:51 once make the whole shebang sanely asdf loadable i can start fixing issues 20:31:20 most probably, including putting it on hunchentoot instead of araneida 20:31:34 newsham: totally off-topic 20:32:03 its a nearlisp at least! ;-) 20:32:21 miller light is further from beer than logo is from lisp! 20:32:31 if scheme is offtopic, logo definitely is. 20:32:43 conceded.. i guess shceme is off topic here? 20:32:43 minion: what do you think about scheme? 20:32:44 scheme is the root of all evil 20:32:59 newsham: this channel is about Common Lisp 20:34:02 with scheme you could potentially receive an answer here, but logo, nobody uses it 20:34:21 LiamH: Try laptop in living room! 20:34:43 Man, I was using meep the other day, and wound up writing most in lisp and having that output scheme... 20:34:46 Not close enough, laptop in kitchen. 20:35:14 Yeah, but laptop in kitchen -> Many dishes in field of view 20:36:17 frx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 20:36:23 Sikander: try opening your aperture wider 20:36:26 LiamH: anyway, I'm back, laptop on one side, dinner on the other, and tv on 20:36:44 And many dishes on the keyboard. 20:37:28 minion: why do you think scheme is the root of all evil? 20:37:29 scheme is the root of all evil 20:37:46 -!- newsham [~chat@udp216902uds.hawaiiantel.net] has left #lisp 20:37:50 minion: good bot, have a botsnack 20:37:51 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 20:38:01 anyone knows if there are plans to port cl-smoke to other OSes? 20:38:20 stassats`: why does it keep that opinion? 20:38:35 minion: No, you are wrong. I am the root of all evil, not scheme. 20:38:36 scheme is the root of all evil 20:38:39 is this just a joke? 20:38:55 frx: just use commonqt 20:39:17 mcstar: minion doesn't change its views on a whim 20:39:19 i like cl-smoke's approach a lot more 20:39:27 ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 20:39:50 stassats`: i mean do common lispers consider scheme bad? 20:39:52 minion: Who wrote you? 20:39:53 bill clinton 20:40:03 Hmmm 20:40:11 mcstar: of course 20:40:27 minion: what do you consider to be evil? 20:40:28 i can't divulge what i consider to be evil 20:40:37 minion: Who killed kennedy? 20:40:37 Would you /please/ stop playing with me? 3 messages in 44 seconds is too many. 20:40:46 dammit 20:40:47 mcstar: Some do, some don't 20:41:16 atm im not sure whether stassats` is just fooling with me or not 20:41:17 NeedMoreDesu: Ask again later :D 20:41:33 and when you do, do it in /q 20:41:34 Sikander: I think we'll never know :( 20:41:38 don't ask, or you'll make Krystof angry 20:42:36 stassats`: Is there a page or so you can refer us to why (some?) common lispers consider scheme to be evil? 20:43:08 Sikander: you have to ask them 20:43:20 and keep in mind that i can read all your private conversations with minion, so, please, nothing dirty1 20:44:19 stassats`: whoa, that was an experience, i just conversed with minion 20:44:26 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 20:44:32 it didnt cross my mind before that you can /query a bot 20:44:35 yeah, i've noticed that 20:44:47 stassats`: now she is all yours XD 20:46:18 Sikander: any mention of scheme will result in "root of all evil", so you can stop trying 20:46:20 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053015029.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:46:35 Dammit, no reference, then? 20:46:40 minion is really simpleminded 20:47:18 Google gives many results... 20:47:38 I was hoping minion would be more... one-sided. I don't want to hear the other side of the argument ;) 20:47:56 minion: do you like common lisp? 20:47:56 i'm written in common lisp 20:48:08 i think minion is just racist 20:48:17 premature optimization is still before scheme 20:48:37 minion: advice on optimization? 20:48:37 #11908: Premature optimization is the root of all evil. 20:48:50 minion: What about haskell? 20:48:50 42 20:49:12 minion: chant 20:49:12 MORE ONE 20:49:51 Hm, haskell is not in hate-list. Strange. 20:50:42 NeedMoreDesu: it is, just speel it as scheme 20:50:49 spell 20:50:54 stassats`: Ha, I think Philip Greenspun answered the scheme vs common lisp thing very well! 20:51:06 Sikander: link? 20:51:15 http://philip.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0006XQ 20:51:33 minion: what's the difference between common lisp and scheme? 20:51:34 scheme has similar features but longer hair 20:51:47 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-16-203.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:51:54 heh 20:52:02 but which one has the neckbeard... 20:52:50 scheme users 20:52:52 ...gah 20:53:40 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:11 is that because the old common lisp guys are all bald? :) 20:54:24 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.38.72] has joined #lisp 20:55:01 jollyG [~JollyG@cpe-075-176-001-037.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:30 "An interjection denoting frustration and/or excitement." 20:55:33 scheme is older than CL 20:56:04 kennyd: which one? 20:56:31 original one 20:56:43 i just want to reach that Aha! moment in CL, after that im heading to haskell 20:58:00 mcstar: As I understand, when you reach that Aha! moment in CL, you will find other languages clunky and inelegant. 20:58:19 So you'll always come back! 20:58:22 did anyone get commonqt working in SBCL on windows? I got it working in CCL after some help in this channel, but not sbcl 20:58:24 ah yeah, ive read Paul too 20:58:31 "paul" 20:59:29 *slyrus* is trying to play a beatles song ATM. /me thought Paul was somebody different. 20:59:58 i mean graham 21:00:05 we know... 21:00:39 yeah probably, but mccarthy is paul too so i introduced an undocumented ambiguity 21:00:48 There can be only one 21:00:58 but paul is dead 21:01:04 mcstar: paul mccarthy? who's that? 21:01:09 stop playing records backwards! 21:01:13 mccartney, mccarthy is somebody else all together 21:01:17 and he's dead 21:01:36 and, coincidentally, john 21:01:47 john graham is dead? 21:01:53 :) 21:01:53 XD 21:01:55 chrchr 21:02:47 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:04:57 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 21:05:10 - 21:07:25 If you have an array displaced to another array, I assume the gc doesn't do anything until both are out of scope? 21:08:04 naturally 21:08:29 rather, until the array you're displaced to is out of scope 21:08:38 the top array can go away in peace 21:09:17 Does so if C is displaced to B and B to A, is it true that C is displaced to A, or is it not correct to say that? 21:09:23 (without the Does) 21:09:54 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:10:11 can someone help me in my understanding of Section 2.13 in cltl2? "functions that accept functional arguments will accept a symbol or a list whose car is lambda and automatically coerce it to be a function" seems (to me) in contradiction with the illegal example that follows... 21:10:13 one array links to another array, and gc does what it usually does 21:10:22 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 21:10:25 robot-be`: cltl2 is out of date in that regard. 21:10:28 you don't need to overthink it 21:10:36 robot-be`: and in many other regards... 21:10:53 stassats`: thanks 21:11:15 Sikander: that was a good read 21:12:24 mcstar: I wonder about the last statement, though, in regards to C/C++ being faster in reading large data sets 21:13:03 i only read greenspun's part 21:13:13 Aha, ok, that was fantastic 21:13:47 i thought sussman had a part in cltl1 21:15:01 mcstar: Wikipedia says: NO 21:15:48 ah steele is the one 21:16:15 -!- frx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: quit] 21:16:51 yeah, that guy 21:16:59 the java guy? 21:17:01 The Remote Agent Experiment: Debugging Code from 60 MIllion Miles Away: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gZK0tW8EhQ 21:18:07 is the concept of a "list whose car is lambda" somehow distinct from a "lambda-expression"? 21:18:42 I'm trying to understand how 2.13 of cltl2 doesn't contradict itself (even back when it wasn't out of date ;) 21:19:01 cltl2 2.13 21:19:01 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for 2.13. 21:19:05 ew 21:19:25 robot-be`: yes, it is different. 21:19:25 lambda expression n. a list which can be used in place of a function name in certain contexts to denote a function by directly describing its behavior rather than indirectly by referring to the name of an established function; its name derives from the fact that its first element is the symbol lambda. See lambda. 21:19:34 In ((lambda (x) (* x x)) 2), (lambda (x) (* x x)) is a lambda expression. 21:19:42 In (funcall (function (lambda (x) (* x x))) 2), (lambda (x) (* x x)) is a lambda expression. 21:19:56 In (funcall (coerce '(lambda (x) (* x x)) 'function) 2), (lambda (x) (* x x)) is NOT a lambda expression. 21:20:05 It's a mere list whose car is LAMBDA. 21:20:21 -!- two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:20:51 Notice, in (funcall (lambda (x) (* x x))'function) 2), (lambda (x) (* x x)) is NOT a lambda expression either. It's a macro call. 21:22:09 pjb: makes sense now, thanks 21:22:25 also, why is my beautiful name truncated with a backquote? 21:22:36 Try /nick robot-be again. 21:23:22 -!- robot-be` [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:23:56 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:35 I'm me again! 21:24:54 your name is too long 21:25:31 mcstar: anything shorter would be too ambiguous 21:25:54 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.204] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 21:27:54 pjb: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_lambda.htm down the page theres an exmaple which afaik gives an implementation of a lambda macro, but it doesnt work 21:32:14 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-67-189-240-148.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:32:27 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.204] has joined #lisp 21:32:37 mcstar: :-) 21:33:19 that's because it defines CL:LAMBDA. If you try this at home, you'll shadow CL:LAMBDA and will be defining your own lambda symbol, which expands to (function (your-own:lambda )). 21:34:00 ah i didnt mention that i named it lambda-prime 21:35:00 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128696 21:35:18 -!- Sikander [~userid@54699806.cm-12-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:36:26 Sikander [~userid@54699806.cm-12-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 21:36:34 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:44 Is there a predicate that checks if a stream is "positionable" using file-position? 21:38:19 pjb: ok, so what does this mean? the cake is a lie? 21:38:20 (numberp (file-position stream (file-position stream)) 21:38:20 ) 21:39:02 numberp isn't needed 21:39:07 Ah, that doesn't signal conditions, then? Great. 21:39:41 If this returns non-nil, does this mean that by definition you can go to positions before the current one? 21:39:57 no 21:40:05 (if the current one is not 0) 21:40:07 Ah 21:40:40 I'm not sure how to ask this, except in the C way: how can I figure out if a stream is seekable? 21:40:55 can't do that 21:41:00 dammit 21:41:00 pjb: what am i missing? shouldnt that example from the clhs work? 21:41:38 but can you at least always use file-position to move ahead of the current position, as long as you don't go beyond the eof? 21:41:58 no 21:42:20 Dammit, so a "fast-forward" function using read-byte is required then.... 21:42:28 what do you want to do? 21:42:28 or read-char 21:42:48 minion: tell Sikander advice on accomplish 21:42:48 Sikander: #11903: What are you really trying to accomplish here? 21:43:18 I'm going through a file and want to read things at given positions. I know the positions in ascending order, but the file is not necessarily a disk file 21:43:47 whichelse file can it be? 21:43:58 Sikander: I'm here 21:44:19 It's some gray stream 21:44:37 I'm sorry, I meant to say, the stream is not necessarily from a disk file 21:45:06 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176123523.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:45:33 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:38 fe[nl]ix: ? 21:46:06 you sent me two emails before :D 21:46:23 Ah, ok, that's you! 21:46:32 pjb: so that lambda macro by the use of &whole will expand to a similar form, but in it, lambda wont be a macro anymore but a lambda-form? 21:47:11 fe[nl]ix: so? is it worth merging or at least investigating adding some keyword options? 21:47:38 and associated functionality, of course. 21:47:57 I'll add the junk-allowed argument 21:48:34 skrue [~skrue@90.149.150.38] has joined #lisp 21:48:49 fe[nl]ix: Ok, I was willing to work on that, but my style might not be up to par 21:50:36 hmm, send me a patch anyway :) 21:50:55 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.204] has joined #lisp 21:51:15 even when the style is not good, it's easier to correct it than to write everything from scratch 21:51:32 You haven't seen my code ;) 21:51:51 i have seen nonexistent code 21:51:58 and it's hard to use 21:52:06 Haha 21:52:20 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@n218250062123.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:16 "I was pointed to SICP by the #scheme room on irc but they banned me for asking the differences between scheme and lisp as did the #lisp room." 21:54:05 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:54:19 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:54:23 is scheme vs lisp akin to emacs vs vi wars? I didn't know it was so bad 21:54:51 Sikander: as for the other issue, just use coerce 21:55:08 -!- ainm [~ainm@56.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:55:40 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:56:30 a (coerce 3 'double-float) takes about 3e-8 seconds here, that's pretty fast 21:56:58 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@n218250062123.netvigator.com] has quit [Quit: ] 21:57:19 daniel__3 [~daniel@p5B326203.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:19 I don't think speed was the issue 21:57:31 Sikander: re reading numbers: some guy i know found boost's lexical scope very fast in converting strings to numbers 21:57:44 damn, lexical cast 21:58:10 (sorry, reading scoping rules from onlisp) 21:58:38 mcstar: My biggest problem is the speed of foreign arrays of grid/antik, but LiamH is helping with that 21:58:38 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p50829D37.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:39 Sikander: what's the issue ? 21:59:34 fe[nl]ix: it seems that coercing to double floats just gives you the single float coerced to a double float; you lose resolution 21:59:44 mmajchrzak [~mmajchrza@host-81-190-228-83.wroclaw.mm.pl] has joined #lisp 21:59:49 mcstar: yes, the lambda macro transforms the lambda macro call into a function call with a lambda expression as argument. 22:00:01 The lambda expression being the lambda macro call. 22:00:02 fe[nl]ix: or maybe I'm using an old version; I'd need to check again 22:01:00 mcstar: but it's important to distinguish both, because if quoted the lambda macro call becomes a mere list with lambda as car. It's only when it's evaluated that it's expanded to a call to the function special operator with a lambda expression. 22:01:46 ainm [~ainm@70.Red-83-61-34.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:47 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-50.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:11 pjb: what is the rationale of this? to be able to use (lambda nil) and #'(lambda nil) the same way? 22:02:33 mcstar: the example in CLHS would work (in-package "COMMON-LISP"), if you were allowed to modify definitions in that package. But only the implementors may. If you are an implementor, (or if you can unlock the COMMON-LISP package, or if there's no lock) then with (in-package "COMMON-LISP") that defmacro will work. 22:02:46 mcstar: yes, in an evaluation context. 22:03:02 Sikander: that has been fixed 22:03:14 pjb: thanks 22:04:32 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:12 mcstar: notice if you want to write a function that also accepts lists with lambda in car as functions, it's easy to do so with coerce: (defun g (f) (let ((f (coerce f 'function))) (funcall f))) 22:07:25 -!- jollyG [~JollyG@cpe-075-176-001-037.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:42 (values (g (function lisp-implementation-type)) (g (lambda () 'hi)) (g '(lambda () 'lo))) will work. 22:08:08 and (g (quote lisp-implementation-type)) too. 22:08:17 -!- Sikander [~userid@54699806.cm-12-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Goodnight...] 22:08:38 lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:49 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:11:08 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 22:11:14 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:13:23 pnq [~nick@ACA224FB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:19 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75f76a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:18:07 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:19:36 -!- [6502] [5e24f39c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.243.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:24:20 cabaire [~nobody@xdsl-78-35-153-245.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:25:35 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.38.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:26:28 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:31:00 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:31 Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has joined #lisp 22:33:07 gn 22:33:10 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-134-25-21.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: mcstar] 22:33:48 -!- Kron [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:35:14 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 22:36:06 -!- cabaire [~nobody@xdsl-78-35-153-245.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:36:16 jollyG [~JollyG@cpe-075-176-001-037.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:48 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 22:36:54 clhs list 22:36:54 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_list.htm 22:37:24 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:37:41 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:38:03 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:39:26 mikos [~wolverine@5ac889ab.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 22:39:47 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:05 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-39-16.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:23 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:49:18 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:20 -!- mikos [~wolverine@5ac889ab.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:51:29 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:52:54 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:29 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:54:39 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:43 daimrod_ [~daimrod@sbrk.org] has joined #lisp 22:55:00 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:37 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-107.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:05 -!- daimrod [~daimrod@sbrk.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:58:06 -!- daimrod_ is now known as daimrod 22:59:44 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 22:59:50 -!- thom_ [~thom@pool-173-60-243-134.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:00:39 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-carl-202-56.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 23:00:43 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-carl-202-56.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:50 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-carl-202-56.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 23:04:49 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 23:06:44 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-carl-202-56.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:32 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:08:44 mikos [~mikos@188-223-31-58.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:09:00 Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.108.204] has joined #lisp 23:10:42 mcox [~markcox@203-206-28-125.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:13:49 -!- mcox [~markcox@203-206-28-125.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 23:15:01 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-16-203.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:17 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:17:13 i wonder whether lisppaste is the last thing using Araneida 23:17:32 cliki too, maybe 23:17:37 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-188-109-157-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 23:17:46 The term "araneida" reminds me of "annelid", but do not ask me why. 23:18:12 Quadrescence: are you ready for Lisp pranks? 23:18:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:25 stassats`, yes 23:19:26 stassats`, here is a bit of code which will enable read-time parenthesis checking: (set-syntax-from-char #\( #\)) 23:19:58 (it means: compute the matching of `(' and `)' when reading the syntax) 23:21:14 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:29:42 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:17 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.74] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:19 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:36:49 -!- mmajchrzak [~mmajchrza@host-81-190-228-83.wroclaw.mm.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:38:03 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:40:50 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-50.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 23:46:00 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-16-60.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:47:40 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-50.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:42 -!- jollyG [~JollyG@cpe-075-176-001-037.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:49:41 woohoo, /me rewrote the main page of lisppaste to hunchentoot, one down, n-1 to go 23:55:07 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:55:13 I heard that the problem wasn't with the web aspect, but with irc? 23:55:32 -!- ainm [~ainm@70.Red-83-61-34.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:55:51 lisppaste is one big problem 23:56:44 jollyG [~JollyG@cpe-075-176-001-037.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp