00:00:03 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.32.57.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:00:50 -!- na[2] [~textual@67.23.193.215] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:01:16 madnificent: learn all of statistics. ;-) 00:01:42 I thought gigamonkey learned by writing books. 00:01:52 hefner: yeah, this is the first step of that process. ;-) 00:03:00 gigamonkey: that's rather broad isn't it? also: write a statistics system if you want to know all of it ;) 00:03:21 *madnificent* wonders where his books on that topic are 00:03:55 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.109.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:34 For now I'd be happy with at least being able to know what I need to read in order to learn enough to understand the many bits of vocabulary I currently don't understand in EoSL. 00:06:09 -!- CrazyEddy [~leptopros@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:10:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:11 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.185.102] has joined #lisp 00:11:13 quazimodo [~quazimodo@CPE-58-173-140-27.cjcz1.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:13:40 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:19:53 CrazyEddy [~phosphite@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 00:19:55 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:20:23 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-194-223.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:21:56 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:26:09 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:26:29 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.185.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:27:30 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 00:28:02 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.185.102] has joined #lisp 00:28:20 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c16f8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:29:07 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-67-189-240-148.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:30:29 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FB6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:37 -!- mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34:54 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 00:35:35 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.185.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:41:53 -!- asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:44:45 Probability and Statistics for Engineers and Scientists has been helpful for me in a few occasions 00:45:08 pcavs [~Adium@c-76-118-179-235.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:33 Spion: gigamonkey has logged out 00:46:17 oops. 00:46:50 Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.118.81] has joined #lisp 00:47:27 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129174088.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:47:36 repeat it later, it may be helpful 00:48:53 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:51:05 will do (if online at the same time - going to bed soon) 00:51:27 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18e4c9a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:30 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.220] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:54:43 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:54:47 -!- daniel__2 [~daniel@p5082B185.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:55:00 daniel [~daniel@p5082B185.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:19 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:56:50 deneme [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 00:57:21 is there a defacto way of parsing a float in string 00:58:48 scombinator [~user@203.171.40.170] has joined #lisp 00:58:51 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.67.43] has joined #lisp 00:59:08 deneme: (read-from-string "1.2") --> 1.2 00:59:34 beware of the security hazard if your float comes from an external source. and it isn't the fastest solution either, i'd guess. 00:59:48 (read-from-an-array-of-characters-please "1.2") --> 1.2 00:59:49 (let ((*read-default-float-format* 'long-float)) (read-from-string "1.2")) => 1.2D0 ; 3 01:00:10 Assumedly, you've checked the string with a regexp first. 01:00:40 *madnificent* did the parsing of floats manually in cl-jsown, you could steal it from there, but it'll likely be relatively complex as it's optimized for speed, not readability. 01:01:02 There's a paper about reading floats. 01:01:09 a recent one even 01:01:16 or was that writing them 01:01:53 s/cl-jsown/jsown/ 01:02:10 pjb: yes, it will be checked first 01:02:14 -!- workflow [~workflow@178-83-8-30.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:02:24 -!- pcavs [~Adium@c-76-118-179-235.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:03:16 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@192.188.108.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:03:53 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: I need an exit.] 01:04:13 pjb, madnificent: thanks, i think pjb's example will do the job. it will be a stream of whitespace seperated floating-point numbers after all 01:04:41 and not necessarily more than 200-300 numbers so no optimization requeired i assume 01:04:42 *madnificent* prefers pjb's solution when it can be used, it's simple 01:06:43 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-134-25-21.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: mcstar] 01:08:36 NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.22.112] has joined #lisp 01:09:06 Hi. I'm trying to use http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa385478(v=vs.85).aspx this function, using (load-shared-object "mpr"). I'm got message `debugger invoked on a UNDEFINED-ALIEN-ERROR: Undefined alien: "WNetOpenEnum"'. Am I doing something wrong? 01:09:12 I got that error when I trying to (defun WNetOpenEnum(dwScope dwType dwUsage lpNetResource lphEnum) (alien-funcall (extern-alien "WNetOpenEnum" (function DWORD DWORD DWORD DWORD LPNETRESOURCE LPHANDLE)) dwScope dwType dwUsage lpNetResource lphEnum)) 01:09:31 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 01:09:35 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:10:48 pcavs [~Adium@c-76-118-179-235.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:11 It should be in mpr. Am I missing something? 01:11:13 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@adsl-99-36-220-229.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:31 NeedMoreDesu: did you load the library already? 01:11:42 ah, right 01:11:48 didn't notice it 01:12:03 what about correct call sequence type? 01:12:29 /finger 01:12:29 01:12:29 01:12:29 01:12:32 01:12:35 01:12:38 01:12:42 01:12:45 01:12:48 01:12:51 01:12:54 01:12:58 01:12:59 01:13:18 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:14:26 arrsim [~user@128.250.116.167] has joined #lisp 01:14:32 p_l: Does it really work like that? I mean, I'm getting message about undefined alien. If its wrong args, shouldn't it be runtime error? 01:15:11 which implementation is that? 01:15:20 BeWhy [~chatzilla@c-76-124-138-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:40 I used those binaries: sbcl-1-0-55-3-mswinmt-1182-d7a1816-x86.msi // sbcl-1-0-55-x86-windows-binary.msi 01:16:45 They both fail 01:16:51 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:58 uhm 01:17:17 second is official, first isn't. 01:17:19 I think you need to use define-alien-routine first, but I'm not sure 01:17:27 *p_l* used CFFI, not sb-alien 01:18:13 -!- deneme [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:18:52 oh. I think define-alien-routine works just like that defun I made. I got it from http://coliveira.net/software/writing-a-win32-application-in-sbcl-common-lisp/ and that really works. 01:20:15 most of the time I'd suggest CFFI. It makes things simpler, IMHO 01:20:35 (and portable between implementations, for example SBCL/CCL/ECL) 01:21:19 I take it CFFI is quicklisp-able? 01:21:22 And I managed to white hiding for console window using that, and define-alien-routine. But sort of error I'm getting not is like library isn't loaded. 01:21:22 Thanks for tip, I'm really new to it. 01:24:37 scombinator: yes, it is 01:24:41 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:12 -!- pcavs [~Adium@c-76-118-179-235.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:25:53 Arbamisto [~christoph@192.188.108.71] has joined #lisp 01:26:12 p_l: would you give some good links about how to use it, please, if you have any? 01:27:09 NeedMoreDesu: the CFFI manual is quite good, I learnt a lot also from reading what SWIG generated 01:28:15 NeedMoreDesu: did you specify the calling convention right? 01:28:36 Windows has some name mangling for std/fast call functions. 01:30:24 ah right, that too - especially since it seems that extern-alien will simply provide you with a reference to a symbol 01:31:48 I don't remember stdcall, but wouldn't it be something like WMNetOpenEnum@24 ? 01:32:24 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-130-87.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:33:19 if it's stdcall, you need to append @20 to get the right symbol, and make sure to specify that in the call form (otherwise the arguments will be passed all wrong). That's what nyef's hack is for. 01:35:23 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:36 fartofagony [fartofagon@c-566ee155.227-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 01:35:39 hi 01:35:46 is lisp a scriptiong language? 01:36:01 Not sure what you are talking about. It evaluated (defun WNetOpenEnum() (alien-funcall (extern-alien "MessageBoxA" (function int)))) without errors, though arglist is totally wrong 01:36:04 is english? 01:37:01 scombinator: is it dynamical? 01:37:08 fartofagony: You can make scripts using lisp, if you want. #!/path/to/sbcl --script, for example 01:37:11 fartofagony: It could be used as one. picolisp/newlisp were I think designed to be more scripting language 01:37:25 fartofagony: Dynamically typed? yes 01:37:29 fartofagony: it's a programming language with a lot of dynamic features. 01:37:40 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:37:51 perfect 01:39:07 pkhuong: So I don't think my current error about arglist at all. 01:39:12 However many of the tools required for scripting aren't really there. (although, to be honest, they're not in python either.) 01:39:15 NeedMoreDesu: I never said that. 01:39:42 on the path of learning c++ and got interested in learning a scripting language. instictly googled around and the LEAST suggested / recommended what is considered scripting language, was LISP 01:40:20 fartofagony: I think you're using wrong definitions here 01:41:06 also, LISP refers I think to LISP 1.0 and LISP 1.5, both mainly of historical interest 01:41:25 fartofagony: what do you actually want from this scripting language? 01:41:36 This channel is about Common Lisp, which *can* be used for scripting, just like C can be 01:41:54 alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-220-72.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:11 p_l: well, arguably, more easily than C, if only during development. 01:42:24 Although both pretty much suck at scripting. 01:42:30 For scripting you want something like 'expect'. 01:42:41 lol I even have some scripts in elisp. Bad for me, don't know cl well enoght. 01:42:52 Zhivago: expect is pretty dead 01:43:02 I am terminologically terrible in the subject, but just a language similar to python, that executes lines of code dynamically 01:43:02 -!- Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.118.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:43:07 Yeah, but it's probably the only actual scripting language around. 01:43:08 NeedMoreDesu: ok, so the FFI is calling-convention agnostic on windows. You just have to get the right name; I'd try to append the @20 bit. 01:43:13 Ah. You mean "half-arsed". 01:43:25 Python doesn't execute lines of code dynamically. 01:43:38 Python compiles code and then runs it, like pretty much anything else. 01:43:41 Zhivago: I think he means that he doesn't have to wait for it to compile 01:43:50 Probably. It's one of the usual confusions. 01:43:53 pkhuong: Are you going to do anything more on napa fft? My wish list is a routine to take a real sequence and compute the FFT, without first converting the real sequence to complex. 01:44:13 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:44:22 rtoym: I think it already does that, no? 01:44:57 fartofagony: If you're just looking for a language that compiles *faster* than c++, you could pretty much choose any damn thing 01:45:11 pkhuong: It does? I guess I missed that. Sorry. I'll read the docs/code a bit more closely. 01:45:12 rfft would even execute it as a half-length complex FFT (: 01:45:43 ahh ok thanks, yes i easily get confused with words. then i can safely exclude LISP from "the scripting lang. list" 01:45:52 thank you very much, guys 01:46:00 rtoym: and I do plan to work on napa fft some more, particularly to make it more useful/easy to use. Performance is fun, but not a terribly practical issue. 01:46:01 You can exclude pretty much everything from that list. 01:46:18 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:46:46 Very few languages support scripting well. 01:47:07 Maybe AppleScript and Expect are the two leading candidates. 01:47:09 pkhuong: to append @20 bit to what? to function name? 01:47:12 -!- espadrine [~thaddee_t@acces2342.res.insa-lyon.fr] has quit [Quit: espadrine] 01:47:28 pkhuong: I would just like to play with using FFTs for bignum multiplication. My old FFT is pretty slow and even slower because it doesn't have an FFT for real vectors. 01:47:33 NeedMoreDesu: yes. 01:47:48 Zhivago: what about the mainstream ones then? 01:48:13 Mainstream whats? 01:48:29 Zhivago: python, perl etc 01:49:03 fartofagony: Out of what are consider mainstream scripting languages, perl and ruby support scripting reasonable well. Python is clunkier when you try to use regexen and pasting system commands together/forking 01:49:13 fart: Those don't script worth a damn. 01:49:22 fart: Think about what scripting means. 01:49:25 Hate things in python. They never work with me, have version problems. 01:49:34 Scripting is essentially about controlling an agent. 01:49:48 Why is shellscript called shellscript? Because it controls the agent that is the shell. 01:50:06 Idiots like to use 'scripting' to refer to 'half-arsed' languages, mostly. 01:50:08 rtoym: yup, FFT/RFFT will convert sequences as needed. 01:50:27 And they tend to have other brain damage like 'interpreted language' as well. 01:51:37 fartofagony: The fastest way to get things done is to pick one that someone around you knows and pester them. IRC has limited bandwidth compared to interacting in meatspace 01:51:56 pkhuong: Will the result of a real fft be in packed form? 01:52:01 *rtoym* should read the docs/code.... 01:54:17 rtoym: nope, you get normal output. The docs have a short FFT mult example that uses a lower-level function that performs two real-input FFTs at once. 01:54:28 dont know anyone. the closest is when interracting with someone through IRC. atleast i know lisp wasnt what i thought it was 01:54:31 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:56:00 Zhivago: ikm bad at words, going to learn the distinctions between these before disturbing others like now sorry 01:57:08 pkhuong: Ok, thanks. That's good enough to start with. 01:58:06 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:58:31 Zhivago: gez, you're a bit mean 01:58:31 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-130-87.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:33 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-126-246.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:00:03 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:19 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:01:27 well, "scripting" language is badly defined 02:01:59 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@108.60.121.114] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:02:23 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-19.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:03:51 Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.107.171] has joined #lisp 02:04:08 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 02:04:32 Most words in common usage are 02:04:34 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4381.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:35 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-19.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:04:43 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:05:30 *p_l* decides to scrap trying to sleep tonight 02:05:47 pkhuong: How do I add @20 to string? 02:05:59 NeedMoreDesu: you type it in. 02:06:06 (concatenate 'string string "@20") 02:06:52 "@20" makes string legth 3. Is it good? 02:07:37 .. I think I understood now. 02:08:20 -!- nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:34 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:44 -!- anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:20 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:09:30 pcavs [~Adium@c-65-96-169-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:51 in reality, a scripting *language* is a language that can *only* be used to perform scripting of pre-existing objects. VBA and shell scripting languages might qualify there. 02:10:17 in practice, *languages* can't really be classified as scripting or not 02:10:30 hmm... JCL was a scripting langauge 02:10:32 *language 02:10:49 even languages defined by implementation change 02:11:04 perl used to be exclusively a scripting language 02:11:19 now it's possible to create standalone apps in it 02:12:26 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@adsl-99-36-220-229.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:13:11 So because you can come up with a way of classifying languages as scripting or not, it can't be done? ... I'm not sure I buy your argument 02:13:29 (defun WNetOpenEnum() (alien-funcall (extern-alien "WNetOpenEnum@20" (function int)))) or "@20whatever" is still the same error 02:13:31 Well, I'd say "is at least good at" rather than "can *only* be used to". 02:15:29 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 02:15:31 -!- Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.107.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:15:54 pkhuong: Threads are required for napa-fft3? 02:16:16 I'd say any language with the ability to wrap other processes, manipulate them and their io along with other files in a succicint and idiomatic way would qualify as a scripting language. Any language that makes munging data, and automating tasks simple. 02:16:34 rtoym: no. 02:17:24 pkhuong: Ok. There are some sbcl dependencies then. 02:17:28 definitely. 02:17:32 dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:38 The Isle of Lispos 02:18:37 I might have used a couple sb-thread functions, but it's far from thread-safe, and it should be easy to take them out. For the rest, I *think* I managed to conditionalize all the sbcl-specific stuff in the code generator and low-level functions. 02:20:30 scombinator: A remarkably rare situation, when you consider what needs to be done in order to do that. 02:20:45 scombinator: e.g., think about how to enter a password into 'su'. 02:20:49 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AED7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:21:22 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:22:34 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:07 pkhuong: when you said about @20, did you mean one char of three? 02:23:51 NeedMoreDesu: I meant three character, @, 2 and 0. 02:24:24 Ah, k. Than I guess it don't work either. 02:25:18 like that: # 02:26:15 -!- Arbamisto [~christoph@192.188.108.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:26:30 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:26:40 NeedMoreDesu: there must be some easy to use tool to find the symbols defined in a dll, like nm on unix systems. 02:26:51 scombinator: then CL is a scripting language, but it isn't. 02:27:36 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 02:28:24 rme [~rme@50.43.132.93] has joined #lisp 02:29:17 NeedMoreDesu: WNetOpenEnum is probably really one of two functions: either WNetOpenEnumA or WNetOpenEnumW. 02:29:51 oh, right. I should have remembered that. 02:29:57 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-143-173.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:42 rme: Thanks! I think that's it. 02:31:00 Btw they both do. Any difference? 02:32:18 NeedMoreDesu: first one would be ASCII, the other would use UTF-16 02:32:55 I guess 02:33:01 p_l: ANSI actually. don't ask me what the difference is though 02:33:17 DataLinkDroid: hysterical 02:33:31 Probably means 'whatever character set the compiler uses'. 02:33:39 probably 02:33:45 A = "whatever encoding is set for legacy programs" 02:34:46 translates to/from UTF-16 based on that setting 02:35:24 -!- scombinator [~user@203.171.40.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:36:01 Arbamisto [~christoph@192.188.108.71] has joined #lisp 02:38:06 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-143-173.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:38:30 christop1er [~christoph@192.188.108.71] has joined #lisp 02:38:36 Following up on the parser conversation, I now want to learn how to use an LALR parser generator, specifically the one in LW, to parse lisp code. I found that LALR parsing is covered in 6.035, Computer Language Engineering, MIT OCW. Is there a better tutorial/introduction? 02:38:54 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-143-173.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:02 There doesn't appear to be one at the Khan Academy. 02:39:08 common lisp was pretty much designed to be parsed with recusive descent code. 02:39:56 -!- Arbamisto [~christoph@192.188.108.71] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:40:17 pkhuong: I have some half-baked recusive descent code for parsing a buffer of lisp code. It just seems like it's going to be error prone. 02:40:28 -!- christop1er [~christoph@192.188.108.71] has quit [Client Quit] 02:41:52 Arbamisto [~christoph@192.188.108.71] has joined #lisp 02:41:54 Maybe I should revisit it. It's probably 90% done. I think I got stuck on parsing some reader macro. 02:45:09 CL is lousy to parse with that due to things like 1203214321qq. 02:45:29 Zhivago: with that being LALR? 02:46:30 Yeah, since you often can't tell what kind of token a token is until you've finished reading it. 02:46:54 CL has regular forms, but baroque atoms. 02:51:39 -!- alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-220-72.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 02:52:35 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.247.25] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 02:53:08 -!- antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:56:59 -!- BeWhy [~chatzilla@c-76-124-138-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:58:16 fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:fc7f:cc93:c47b:74de] has joined #lisp 02:58:21 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 03:01:43 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:44 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:18 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-143-173.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:20 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-143-173.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:03:20 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 03:06:33 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.132.93] has left #lisp 03:08:34 *pjb* how hard could it be to write a simple bug tracker in lisp? At least, it would do what I want as I want it 03:09:33 so easy 03:09:43 I would write it all in a single file 03:09:54 maybe 2 03:10:03 one for the lib, one for the main 03:10:16 psex001 [~user@rp.young.med.auckland.ac.nz] has joined #lisp 03:10:17 call it Foreign.Bugs.Tracker 03:10:22 adu: yes, with hunchetoot, it's not too hard to write. 03:10:25 cuz Haskell doesn't have bugs 03:10:53 springz [~springz@216.24.205.54] has joined #lisp 03:11:43 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 03:11:57 housel` [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 03:12:09 pjb: oops wrong channel 03:12:25 -!- housel [~user@ip70-187-191-250.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:12:49 -!- psex001 is now known as eeeickythump 03:13:46 -!- hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hydo] 03:16:22 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-164-121.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:16:23 ? 03:16:24 -!- housel` is now known as housel 03:16:53 -!- eeeickythump [~user@rp.young.med.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.92.1] 03:19:37 pjb: don't forget hooking it to git :) 03:20:01 Yes. 03:20:13 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-164-121.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 03:20:24 -!- dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:23 vl4kn0 [~stepan_bu@213.122.216.11] has joined #lisp 03:23:14 git++ 03:23:50 is lisp still feasible? 03:23:56 Yes. 03:24:00 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.148.196.46] has joined #lisp 03:24:04 thanks 03:24:06 :D 03:24:38 -!- springz [~springz@216.24.205.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:24:49 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vysknrfsssnigsjc] has joined #lisp 03:26:33 vl4kn: Meaningless question; meaningless answer. 03:27:21 Zhivago: it was just a joke :) 03:27:26 -!- tensorpudding__ [~michael@108.87.21.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:27:29 Zhivago: it is not, it's a basic query to check if the language is dead or not. it is obviously not. i'm surprised pjb got away with so little motivation, but i'm happy all the crap wasn't needed this time. 03:28:22 When is a language dead? 03:28:30 Zhivago is correct. feasible for what? 03:29:39 hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:17 -!- vl4kn0 [~stepan_bu@213.122.216.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:30:34 Zhivago: that language association thing (whatever it was called) named a language dead when code in the language couldn't be evaluated on a modern system anymore. the old LISP dialects are still alive, in the sense that people sometimes write an implementation for them, because it's so simple. so even they aren't dead. under those terms Common Lisp is far from dead. 03:31:00 Zhivago: though i think they had a classification for actively being used as well. i forgot. should search for the language chart again some day. 03:31:32 SIGPLAN? 03:31:46 So, that's a meaningless criteria as well. 03:32:42 Zhivago: could you please shut up about it? now we had a user that didn't nag about lisp's features and all and it's still fuss :( 03:32:52 pnathan: couldn't tell from the top of my head, sorry 03:34:40 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:34:41 madnificent: Don't be embarassed by your meaningless gibberish; just do better next time. 03:35:43 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:37:42 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 03:41:22 pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 03:41:23 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:44:53 madnificent: you're not correct: people don't need to write an implementation to run old LISP programs: they run as-is on any Common Lisp implementation : http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/wang.html 03:45:27 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 03:45:42 pjb: hmm, i wonder if they'd count that as the original LISP still being alive 03:45:58 madnificent: you gave the definition yourself! 03:46:33 "a language [is] dead when code in the language couldn't be evaluated on a modern system anymore." 03:46:33 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 03:46:45 -!- pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:47:35 pjb: no i think that was their definition :) 03:47:41 it's obvious that an assembler programmer didn't write that definition 03:48:18 pjb: in any case, it's awesome that it still works 03:50:54 -!- fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:fc7f:cc93:c47b:74de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:53:27 DataLinkDroid: Well, assembly code from 1967 works today on new machines, so... 03:53:41 ... if you pick the right architecture 03:54:03 p_l: which would that be? 03:54:08 Virtual Machines are Machines, too. 03:54:28 DataLinkDroid: S/370, for example. Which iirc is quite compatible with S/360 too 03:54:48 actually, i was referring to the use of 'evaluate'. machine code *executes*, it doesn't get "evaluated" 03:55:03 heh 03:58:39 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.80.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:59:38 lemoinem [~swoog@40-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:29 DataLinkDroid: 7090 assembler had an EVAL instruction. 04:02:32 (granted, it was called XEC for exec). 04:06:57 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314102.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:07:08 fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:fc7f:cc93:c47b:74de] has joined #lisp 04:07:47 -!- fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:fc7f:cc93:c47b:74de] has quit [Client Quit] 04:07:57 what did that instruction do? 04:08:28 fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:fc7f:cc93:c47b:74de] has joined #lisp 04:08:37 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:26 jewel: http://www.frobenius.com/instruction-set.htm#XEC 04:12:20 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 04:12:24 pnq [~nick@ACA2879E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:15:12 teggi [~teggi@113.172.36.30] has joined #lisp 04:26:11 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-160-107.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:43 evening 04:27:30 'morning 04:29:25 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-zodyuctbcbwvjstm] has joined #lisp 04:29:25 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-zodyuctbcbwvjstm] has quit [Changing host] 04:29:25 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:29:41 -!- loktite [~loktite@c-98-202-2-109.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:30:00 afternoon 04:30:27 pjb: interesting :) 04:31:49 loktight [~loktite@c-98-202-2-109.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:10 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has left #lisp 04:32:58 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:34:46 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 04:35:02 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping 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has joined #lisp 05:24:33 -!- pnathan2 [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:29:23 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 05:32:25 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:33:43 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2879E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:34:25 miql [~miql@ip98-165-228-225.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:04 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:39:17 -!- simon_weber [u4119@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zoccbmxpjwbmjycn] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 05:39:53 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@184-106-98-73.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:39:55 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 05:49:07 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:49:15 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:32 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:56 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:57:03 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-24-218-41.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:05 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:58:38 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-194-223.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:59:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.81.89] has joined #lisp 05:59:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.81.89] has quit [Changing host] 05:59:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:59:56 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:00:14 momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573a84.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:02:08 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-24-218-41.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:06:06 attila_lendvai: hi 06:06:20 hello p_l 06:07:19 hmm...looks like time to start packing 06:07:46 ? 06:08:01 ahh, hey Pavel :) 06:08:04 attila_lendvai: I'm doing a slightly less insane variant of the trip I did for ECLM 06:08:19 (that is, just backpak with laptop) 06:08:25 I need to extend and keep alive my nick -> real name map :) 06:08:30 :D 06:10:11 -!- mathrick__ is now known as mathrick 06:10:23 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:10:28 btw, I'm actually considering doing fun semantic data stuff for government transparency as final year project, with CL (and probably Allegro Graph) :) 06:10:29 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:11:13 stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.28.223] has joined #lisp 06:11:22 p_l: trip to where? which CL event am I not aware of...? :) 06:11:38 no, not a CL event unfortunately 06:11:44 Google on-site interview 06:11:54 but I'm doing Lisp workshops in warsaw next week 06:12:28 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:13:29 ahh, the tentacle found you... :) 06:14:04 attila_lendvai: more like it was going after me for few years now ;) 06:15:03 -!- YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:15:55 google starts to feel as an entity above nation states. not that I mind that... but it's an interesting phenomenon. I may even welcome that, if they manage to convince me that they are not in bed with the governments, especially the USgov. but that's for a different channel... 06:16:24 heh 06:17:00 on a completely unofficial note - I heard rumours that they have or had contingency plans regarding pulling everything from USA ;) 06:17:10 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-fpvvkwxohcenpcuy] has joined #lisp 06:18:11 brb 06:22:31 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@1.129.58.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:23:30 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.129.58.203] has joined #lisp 06:24:31 YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has joined #lisp 06:25:20 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-110.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 06:28:24 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 06:30:53 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.137.25] has joined #lisp 06:32:34 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 06:33:00 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@1.129.58.203] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:36:17 mrSpec [~Spec@89-77-76-114.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 06:36:17 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-77-76-114.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 06:36:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:41:33 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:42:53 Public companies are in bed with all of their shareholders. 06:43:12 -!- fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:fc7f:cc93:c47b:74de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:45:10 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:52:26 -!- momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573a84.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has left #lisp 06:52:27 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:53:01 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:39 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314102.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:55:25 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442544.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 06:57:34 [6502] [5e24f39c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.243.156] has joined #lisp 06:58:53 <[6502]> What is the bad part of using "symbol?" instead of "symbolp" for example? 06:59:06 <[6502]> I see only advantages... 07:00:23 [6502]: one is more schemisch while the other is more cl 07:00:46 using symbolp keeps you closer to the language 07:00:59 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.28.223] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 07:01:06 stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.28.223] has joined #lisp 07:01:18 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-48-223.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:01:21 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.28.223] has quit [Client Quit] 07:01:34 stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.28.223] has joined #lisp 07:02:01 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.28.223] has quit [Client Quit] 07:02:30 <[6502]> ehu: to what language? I wonder why CL didn't use "symbolp?" instead ... I've the impression that "symbol?" would be closer to english (and many other human languages where a question word doesn't require a word variation, just puntuaction) 07:02:56 <[6502]> symbolp? -> symbol? 07:02:59 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:03:12 [6502]: to the common lisp language 07:04:02 when we moved from scheme to lisp I was bit taken back by p instead of ? but now I think its okay 07:04:22 Enerccio: "we" did not move "from scheme to lisp" 07:04:29 <[6502]> ok... apparently my english sucks much more that I'd have thought. Why didn't the CL committee go for "symbol?" instead? Are there any technical (non-historical) reasons? 07:04:36 [6502]: no. 07:04:42 H4ns: I didnt say that... 07:04:58 <[6502]> Enerccio: Yeah... the difference is not huge... I'm not saying that 07:05:02 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:05:27 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 07:06:14 Enerccio: ah. apologies. 07:06:38 [6502]: you will get to it in a jiffy 07:06:50 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.108.77] has joined #lisp 07:07:00 <[6502]> Enerccio: Sorry? 07:07:13 I mean the difference between ? and p 07:07:20 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-194.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:07:29 if you use CL for quite some time it will not come to you as any strange 07:08:08 Well ... a fair chunk of CL is from scheme. 07:08:16 Like lexical scoping ... 07:08:41 <[6502]> Enerccio: Hehehe... symbolp already got to the finger level. But I'm working on a toy Lispy language and I was wondering if converting to "symbol?" was a better choice instead. In never used scheme indeed. 07:08:58 <[6502]> In->I 07:09:09 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:09:29 [6502]: well if you really want you can alias them to the same predicate? 07:09:35 *[6502]* hates hygiene :-D 07:09:41 I'd tend toward something like is-symbol instead of either. 07:09:47 gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 07:10:20 We can afford the extra byte these days. 07:10:38 or maybe even is::symbol :) 07:10:40 <[6502]> Zhivago: yes that's the other option I was thinking about. Now I've symbolp, but (defstructut p2d x y) generates "p2d?" type checker instead. 07:11:06 is::symbol looks terrible to me 07:11:07 <[6502]> p2d-p was rather ugly 07:11:21 <[6502]> Enerccio: I'm sure he was joking :-D 07:11:23 Well, whatever floats your boat (is symbol) 07:11:36 (if ((is symbol) foo) ...) 07:12:06 I think that a proper namespace for predicates is a good idea. 07:12:19 It just depends on how your toy lisp handles those. 07:12:22 <[6502]> something I agree with python is that ease of reading is more important than ease of writing 07:13:26 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@adsl-99-36-220-229.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:13:34 <[6502]> Zhivago: namespaces is a big choice I'm still hesitating on. I like the CL approach of resolving the issue at read time... but I've to think well before going down that path. I used python a lot and even python solution works great. 07:13:53 Well, python doesn't have namespaces. 07:14:05 CL has namespaces, but only at the package level. 07:14:20 And the python solution sucks enormously. 07:14:34 You're forced to pick stupid names to avoid collisions with modules, classes, functions, etc. 07:15:02 At least CL has multiple value spaces for its names, so functions, classes, variables, etc, can share the same name. 07:15:07 <[6502]> Zhivago: why? some names are inconsistent in python but just for historical reasons 07:15:20 So, what's the best name for a module implementing lists? 07:15:32 <[6502]> Zhivago: hehe... my toy lisp is a "lisp-3" ... you can also have a function and a macro with the same name :-D 07:16:15 Presumably they operate like mandatory compiler-macros, then. 07:16:48 <[6502]> Zhivago: sort of that... 07:17:11 Good. 07:17:31 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:17:38 [6502]: and perl5 has scalars, functions, hashes, _and_ lists/arrays with the same name 07:17:48 One thing that I'd suggest is having both namespaces and modules. 07:18:25 <[6502]> Zhivago: I've even a defmacro/f that defines both a function and a macro at the same time --> (defmacro/f first (x) `(aref ,x 0)) 07:18:27 Where modules provide multiple values for a given name. 07:19:11 <[6502]> Zhivago: after that you can use both (setf (first x) 42) and (map #'first ...) 07:19:29 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-143-173.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:19:40 Have you read the kernel paper? 07:19:49 <[6502]> Zhivago: no 07:20:11 <[6502]> or may be yes... not sure. The name doesn't click. 07:20:17 lhz [57e37c83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.227.124.131] has joined #lisp 07:20:50 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/3640 07:21:21 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-170-77.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:37 <[6502]> brrrr 07:21:55 *[6502]* feels uncomfy with (define-syntax ...) 07:21:59 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-143-173.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:04 Irrelevant. 07:22:25 Follow the links to the kernel paper. 07:22:39 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-143-173.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:23:16 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:25:06 <[6502]> Isn't like just redoing macroexpansion every time in a lisp interpreter? 07:27:21 yeah define syntax is terrible 07:28:12 I don't think so. 07:28:32 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:29:19 In scheme I implemented normal macros in a way that macro was just a lambda 07:29:31 which was evaluated and the return from it was evaluated again 07:29:49 the good thin about it was that you could have anonymous macro 07:29:54 *thing 07:30:41 What's good about that? 07:31:18 what isnt? 07:31:26 it goes with scheme way too 07:31:34 with lambdas 07:32:31 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:32:51 and writing macros is much simpler and cleaner 07:32:56 than with define-syntax 07:35:40 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 07:36:22 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.137.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:37:15 vtz [~user@client-73-37-12.speedy-net.bg] has joined #lisp 07:37:34 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-107-122-25.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:37:49 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:06 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 07:40:18 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has 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Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:01:36 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-107-122-25.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:08:33 gekko_ [~jjk@server1.pro-it.dk] has joined #lisp 08:10:12 <[6502]> whoooooooooooops... i was supposed to be in the office half an hour ago!!!!! 08:10:23 -!- [6502] [5e24f39c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.243.156] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:12:39 splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has joined #lisp 08:15:39 morning 08:15:52 emacsuser [~user@194.249.198.46] has joined #lisp 08:16:07 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-uwqbjqratdppqyxe] has joined #lisp 08:17:03 unban my home ip please 08:19:11 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-bpcojclntsuhsand] has joined #lisp 08:19:32 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 08:20:29 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:21:08 I'm wondering whether the lowercase-words-separated-by-hyphens naming convention hurts cl's ease of reading 08:22:19 no, it's the best 08:22:47 well 08:22:53 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:22:59 second best is C style with underscores 08:23:59 in a language with a lot of syntactically relevant punctuation characters, different kinds of symbols pop out at you and clue you in as to where different kinds of things might be happening before you even look at the names 08:24:52 once all that's gone, all you can do to break up the homogeneity is throw in some camelcase or something 08:25:19 underscores definitely pop out more than hyphens 08:25:25 that is true, but symbol names aren't really a part of that. lisp syntax-less style IS harder to read than C style, but on the upper side, at least people agree on a common indenting and formatting 08:26:35 underscores and camel case require pressing shift when typing 08:27:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:28:13 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:28:55 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-jxqyndokknlyrrwq] has joined #lisp 08:30:03 i've hated camelcase in scheme.. in general mixed case brings in ambiguity and ad hoc conventions. 08:31:00 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 08:31:04 your taste might be different though (as long as it's not just a habit from other languages) 08:32:31 it might be better if I pressed shift more actually 08:32:50 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:33:07 I don't think I'm getting the full benefit from all these "don't copy and paste, actually sit down and type this code in!" exercises when I can touch-type them 08:33:20 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 08:33:23 hehe 08:34:19 Lisp syntax is consistently mediocre. 08:34:37 The advantage is that this places user-defined syntax on the same playing field as system defined syntax. 08:34:51 So it makes for more natural extensions. 08:35:06 The downside is that everything sucks to the same degree. :) 08:35:11 yeah, I've come to appreciate that 08:38:11 -!- gekko_ [~jjk@server1.pro-it.dk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:38:29 gekko_ [~jjk@server1.pro-it.dk] has joined #lisp 08:38:55 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:40:04 BigHugeDog1 [~QQ@221.0.13.125] has joined #lisp 08:40:31 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 08:40:34 poindontcare [~user@cloudbovina.bovinasancta.com] has joined #lisp 08:42:30 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:42:37 -!- prip [~foo@host40-126-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:51:17 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 08:54:52 prip [~foo@host36-132-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:54:54 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:57:43 ooohhh, source maps look cool for parenscript 08:58:14 Now, if this actually works with eval(), then interactive parenscript will work like a charm 08:59:03 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 09:05:50 antonv [2e35c31b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.27] has joined #lisp 09:18:51 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-107-122-25.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:24:37 gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 09:25:57 -!- lhz [57e37c83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.227.124.131] has left #lisp 09:26:20 bas_ [~bas@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 09:26:43 -!- bas_ is now known as Skola 09:27:59 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 09:30:49 free_thinker [~willijar@134.151.144.246] has joined #lisp 09:33:55 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.67.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:39:20 Yuuhi [benni@p5483ACC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:45:49 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:56:10 -!- arnsholt_ is now known as arnsholt 09:58:46 _KY_ [YKY@unaffiliated/-ky-/x-0649748] has joined #lisp 10:00:03 <_KY_> Can a compiled lisp program evaluate sexps dynamically ? 10:00:17 Yes. 10:00:28 that's a strangely phrased question 10:00:32 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 10:00:45 stassats: how so? 10:01:13 <_KY_> Does that mean a lisp interpreter is linked in there ? 10:01:22 pjb: first, the indication of "compiled" 10:01:24 ::= . sounds syntactically correct. 10:01:30 _KY_: No. 10:01:33 pjb: which probably doesn't mean what lisp means by compiling 10:01:55 most likely _KY_ is asking about a standalone executables 10:01:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:02:11 stassats: That wouldn't change the answer. 10:02:26 it could 10:02:47 -!- PECCU [~peccu@ZU204061.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:03:01 No, it could not. 10:03:22 Compiled programs can call EVAL. EVAL doesn't impose an implementation, it could be an interpreter or a compiler (or even both). 10:04:04 _KY_: the compiler is usually included in the lisp runtime, so you can do everything at runtime 10:04:21 _KY_: in fact, it requires extra effort to get rid of the compiler. 10:04:22 _KY_: well, it could be an interpreter. Or both. 10:04:33 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:04:57 _KY_: common lisp is a compiled language, we don't usually talk about "the interpreter" here. 10:05:12 But most implementation include an interpreter too. 10:05:19 It's an optimization device. 10:05:54 If the sexp you dynamically evaluate is built and evaluated only once, then it may be faster to interpret it, than to compile and execute it. 10:06:16 pjb 10:06:25 I remember CL was a interpreted language and compiler was added later 10:06:29 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 10:06:31 pjb: you are beating a dead horse. 10:06:39 kanru`: That's wrong. 10:06:44 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-fpvvkwxohcenpcuy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:06:48 oh well 10:06:51 kanru`: It's harder to find a CL interpreter than a CL compiler. 10:07:10 -!- conntrack [~tor@pdpc/supporter/professional/conntrack] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:07:23 but you just said otherwise 10:07:41 kanru`: LISP 1 was an interpreter-only implementation for 4 or six month. But that was in 1959. Since 1960, lisp is compiled. 10:08:04 X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 10:08:06 <_KY_> But what if the sexp is only known at run time ? 10:08:18 Yes, but it's hard to activate the interpreter. Try to do it in sbcl for example. 10:08:36 _KY_: then you compile it at run time 10:08:39 yea, I mean long time ago 10:08:54 pjb: (setf sb-ext:*evaluator-mode* :interpret) 10:09:05 kanru`: in the womb, any language can be implemented in any way. 10:09:22 there was no CL in 1960 10:09:23 stassats: yes, it's hard. It's implementation dependant. 10:10:21 _KY_: are you asking a theoretical question or trying to do something specific? 10:11:20 <_KY_> I'm doing something rather sophisticated... basically bootstraping another language starting with lisp... =) 10:11:40 _KY_: good! 10:12:16 _KY_: before sophistication comes basic understanding. 10:12:44 _KY_: there are basically three way to get code from data (at run-time): (eval form) (funcall (coerce `(lambda () ,form) 'function)) (funcall (compile nil `(lambda () ,form))) 10:12:54 <_KY_> I assume you've heard of bootstrapping a compiler in a new language 10:13:11 <_KY_> But I'm not sure if the same can be done with lisp because it's interpreted 10:13:12 _KY_: the later compiles, the middle one should interpret, the first one does what is deemed best by the implementation. 10:13:24 _KY_: Lisp is not interpreted! 10:13:36 lisp is indifferent to the implementation strategy 10:13:37 <_KY_> Huh? 10:13:37 _KY_: this is the "basic understanding" part of it. 10:13:52 <_KY_> But what if you have dynamic sexps at run time? 10:14:02 <_KY_> How can a compiled program eval that? 10:14:12 EVAL calls the compiler! 10:14:14 it can compile and execute it 10:14:41 .o( ... ) 10:14:42 _KY_: see COMPILE 10:14:49 a lisp implementation is a compiled program which evaluates at run-time 10:14:54 _KY_: read my answer above mentionning COMPILE! 10:15:19 \j #physics 10:15:23 -!- free_thinker [~willijar@134.151.144.246] has left #lisp 10:15:26 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:16:23 riderplus [~camil@unaffiliated/riderplus] has joined #lisp 10:17:00 <_KY_> Then it must embed the interpreter somewhere... and also library functions ? 10:17:20 _KY_: you. don't. need. an. interpreter. 10:17:26 or a compiler, what's so surprising about it? 10:17:50 PECCU [~peccu@ZU204236.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:17:50 -!- riderplus [~camil@unaffiliated/riderplus] has quit [Quit: [BX] BitchX is as BitchX does] 10:17:53 or a positron-electron frobnicator 10:19:41 _KY_: you indeed embed a COMPILER and a run-time. (That's why lisp executables are so big.) 10:19:43 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-shjrzwammnsesjxt] has joined #lisp 10:20:36 <_KY_> Then that's essentially an interpreter... if you "compile" a sexp at run time 10:21:13 what's an interpreter? 10:21:37 -!- antonv [2e35c31b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.27] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:21:47 _KY_: What's an interpreter? 10:23:03 <_KY_> I guess the REPL 10:23:21 Wrong again. 10:23:47 _KY_: in the REPL, It's EVAL that's called, and we already told you that EVAL doesn't (necessarily) call an interpreter! 10:24:56 <_KY_> Can eval evaluate run-time library functions ? 10:25:25 Yes. 10:25:32 Eval can evaluate any form. 10:25:41 Eval is the definition of the language. 10:25:44 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c036a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:32 <_KY_> Then what's the difference between compiled lisp and not compiled ? 10:27:39 None. 10:29:32 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18e4c9a0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:31:05 _KY_: there are some exceptional situations where a difference is allowed by the standard and can be noted between an interpreter and a compiler, but a conforming program cannot enter in those exceptional situations. 10:31:24 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:21 _KY_: Read http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_.htm 10:33:03 _KY_: well, compiled is usually faster, too. 10:34:04 Yes, but if your program works when it's faster, and doesn't work when it's slower, then it's not conforming :-) 10:35:46 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 10:36:52 -!- snorble_ [~snorble@c193-14-18-68.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:36:52 pjb: hi! 10:36:53 _KY_: for example: (defconstant e 2) (defun f (x) (* e x)) (defconstant e 2.7182818) (f 1) is not a conforming program, because an interpreter could return 2.7182818 while a compiler would return 2. 10:37:18 _KY_: (if redefining constants was conforming in the first place) 10:37:25 Posterdati: HI! 10:37:50 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA11EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:40:09 <_KY_> I see.... 10:41:06 The constraints in http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_bbc.htm are mostly defined to reduce the differences between interpreter and compiler. 10:43:53 _KY_: the first implementations of COMMON-LISP were actually other lisp systems (MacLisp, ZetaLisp, LispMachine Lisp, etc) that implemented it as extensions to themselves. Those systems had most probably all of them compilers. You could ask on cll if any oldhat knows about them. 10:44:37 pjb: help please! I did an assignment for nlp: extracting phone numbers and email addresses from text, I did a function to extract emails using regexp and a function to extract phone numbers, but they are almost identical, how can I use a macro to generate the needed function instead of writing two separate functions? Thanks 10:46:41 Posterdati: i'm not pjb, but you don't need a macro 10:47:10 jdz: my idea was to collect regexp in a list and pass it to cl-ppcre:scan 10:47:37 Posterdati: you don't need a macro for that 10:47:48 jdz: ok, let's use a single function 10:47:57 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-shjrzwammnsesjxt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:48:01 jdz: I did a list with regexp for phones and emails 10:48:34 Posterdati: (defun extract-stuff-using-regexp (source regexp) ...) 10:48:52 Posterdati: there, you have the function, give it whatever regexes you like 10:49:15 Posterdati: if you call the function often, you will want to precompile your regular expressions 10:49:51 Posterdati: in fact, this may be a good reason to not unify the two, as that will have the cl-ppcre compiler macros do the work for you 10:51:51 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128440 10:52:10 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA11EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:07 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-64-249.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:54:09 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442544.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:56:49 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.247.25] has joined #lisp 10:57:23 nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-81-132.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:57:25 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:57:57 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 10:58:19 Posterdati: But mustn't we use Python or Java for the nlp assignments? 10:58:59 pjb: I don't know python nor java 10:59:49 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-64-249.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:00:24 Posterdati: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6U-i4gXkLM&feature=my_favorites&list=FLoV4yAUKWEhYJ7VeXRsclhw 11:01:00 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-eexovijegkqvmcwk] has joined #lisp 11:01:10 Posterdati: but let's complain to be able to do the assignments in CL. 11:01:20 Posterdati: after all they probably know lisp also! 11:01:38 I posted on their forum, they ignored me! 11:04:25 Ask on https://www.coursera.org/nlp/auth/feedback 11:04:59 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.104.111] has joined #lisp 11:07:21 (mapcar (lambda (regexp) (extract-stuff-using-regexp source regexp)) *regexpses*) 11:11:05 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:11:52 leo2007 [~leo@114.249.196.3] has joined #lisp 11:12:14 You'd probably be ill advised to ignore python's nltk library. 11:14:59 Zhivago: have they already rewritten all the nlp lisp code into python? 11:15:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:15:48 What nlp lisp code? 11:16:00 I mean, apart from toy grammars that no-one uses any more? 11:16:13 AI is statistics, these days. 11:16:25 Zhivago: the one written during the last 60 years. 11:16:45 I prefer doing statistics in Lisp than in Python. If only because it's faster. 11:18:09 The problem is that NLP code that's more than a decade old is obsolete. 11:18:23 Zhivago: one more reason not to use old python libraries. 11:18:29 Let's write new nlp code in CL! 11:19:15 Ok, you go and do that. 11:19:21 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:19:42 In any case that course starts very badly. With regexps 11:20:54 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:25:50 pjb: I'm writing the first assignment: spamlord 11:27:56 BeWhy [~chatzilla@c-76-124-138-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:07 Good. I've only watched the intro. 11:28:25 Kryztof [~user@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:29:04 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:29:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-194.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:30:16 Poster: An introduction to bayes? 11:31:46 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@40-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:41:00 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-164-121.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:43:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-214-97.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:43:52 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.249.196.3] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.94.1] 11:44:13 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-uwqbjqratdppqyxe] has left #lisp 11:45:12 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA11EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:45:46 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 11:48:53 I have four procedures that I use in a certain computation. They all operate in a static data structure so, to avoid always passing this data structure to the computation and consequently to these four procedures, I'm thinking of creating four closures and passing these closures as the four procedures. Is it a good idea? 11:49:04 espadrine [~thaddee_t@acces2373.res.insa-lyon.fr] has joined #lisp 11:49:21 didi: why not. 11:49:38 pjb: Don't know. Just newbie wondering. 11:50:18 pjb: done, now I've to test against their data and submit 11:50:29 didi: Do you really have four abstractions? Wouldn't one be enough? 11:51:33 pjb: They actually do different things and also use different arguments. This static data structure is the common denominator. 11:51:42 Posterdati: maybe http://www.snltk.org/ is of interest to you 11:52:47 I'll try this approach. Let's see what comes out the other side. 11:52:50 segv_ [~mb@217.111.18.195] has joined #lisp 11:55:17 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:56:56 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 11:59:26 -!- workflow [~workflow@178-83-8-30.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:00:00 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-19.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:01:23 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-19.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:02:38 -!- BeWhy [~chatzilla@c-76-124-138-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:04:39 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-19.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:29 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.196.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 12:05:53 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:07:14 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-19.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:10:43 -!- espadrine [~thaddee_t@acces2373.res.insa-lyon.fr] has quit [Quit: espadrine] 12:12:07 dkasak [dkasak@s0.barwen.ch] has joined #lisp 12:14:41 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 12:16:42 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:17:47 So I note that CLC has been dropped from the sbcl debian packages 12:17:56 as of sbcl 1.0.47 12:18:17 o my 12:18:23 does it pull in other extraneous stuff, like slime? 12:18:57 dunno. I was going through the package definition to figure out how to make my own 12:19:03 so I'm not there yet 12:20:47 dlowe: ah. debian packages are pretty simple in the abstract. an archive of the filesystem layout, some information about dependencies, some shell scripts to run pre and post...not *too* tricky to whip up from scratch. 12:21:08 Xach: oh, I know how to make debian packages. I was just looking to see how they did it. 12:21:58 ok 12:22:39 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-78.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 12:23:28 antonv [2e35c31b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.27] has joined #lisp 12:23:44 teggi_ [~teggi@123.21.169.208] has joined #lisp 12:23:58 any surprises? 12:24:04 aside from no clc, i guess 12:25:42 Does anybody here know of a portable local package nickname library? 12:26:23 apparently there's a patch to fix the sbcl manpage that didn't make it upstream by 1.0.50 12:26:39 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.36.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:28:48 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:28:53 kpreid_ [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:29:21 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-19.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:30:48 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-24-218-41.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:57 -!- _death [void@flash.ignite.lol.vc] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:31:08 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.196.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:31:11 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:31:11 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:31:11 -!- kpreid_ is now known as kpreid 12:31:22 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.196.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 12:31:38 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-19.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:31:38 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:31:42 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA11EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:31:42 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:31:52 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:24 Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 12:32:26 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:33 _death [void@flash.ignite.lol.vc] has joined #lisp 12:35:14 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:35:56 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:36:20 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:36:51 lemoinem [~swoog@40-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:33 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:39:25 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:40:17 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:44:14 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA11EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:44:38 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-170-77.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:45:41 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:55:12 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-24-218-41.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:56:24 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:58:14 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-19.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:58:32 H4ns: thanks 12:59:37 I hope it's not the last nlp scheme library I watched two years ago or something, it was just an empty shell. 12:59:57 ok 13:01:00 Posterdati: i can't comment - i was just reminded of the els talk by one of the people working on that library. 13:01:43 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 13:02:28 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-19.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:03:05 urandom__ [~user@p548A1FE0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:50 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 13:07:35 -!- loktight [~loktite@c-98-202-2-109.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:32 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:11:56 -!- antonv [2e35c31b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.27] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:13:41 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has joined #lisp 13:14:54 dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:10 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:20:54 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA11EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:20:55 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:20 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:21:53 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:27:06 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA054C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:27:34 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 13:29:16 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:30:01 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:30:14 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:50 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:31:50 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:31:54 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:33:52 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA054C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:33:57 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-107-122-25.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:34:09 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1013.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:34:34 pcavs [~Adium@c-67-186-132-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:11 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:40:46 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:40:47 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:41:29 chupish [182c5af4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.44.90.244] has joined #lisp 13:52:21 no Common Lisp in this years gsoc? 13:52:45 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-78.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:53:48 -!- pcavs [~Adium@c-67-186-132-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:55 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@100.Red-88-11-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:53 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:59:39 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-78.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 14:02:28 flipout [~scense@75-175-117-61.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:48 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:11:03 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:12:20 snearch [~snearch@f053012057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:12:23 -!- Arbamisto [~christoph@192.188.108.71] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:13:40 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1013.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:43 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 14:15:32 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has quit [Client Quit] 14:17:13 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:22 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 14:17:26 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:18 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-24-218-41.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:34 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:23:44 pcavs [~Adium@63.139.127.6] has joined #lisp 14:24:57 Kenjin: apparently clojure is more trending on the techno-twitters 14:24:58 -!- fukushim_ [~fukushima@z1.61-193-209.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:25:32 is there cl:indifferent? 14:25:34 honestly, clojure thing will pass, just as coffeescript, groovy, jpython, and friends 14:25:49 maxm-: bummer. Was looking forward gsoc this year 14:26:13 I'd be 100% more interested in Clojure if it weren't tied to the JVM. 14:26:33 there was Clojure for the CLR a long time ago 14:26:47 Not an improvement. 14:26:53 you can write Steel Bank CLojure 14:26:53 nope, not really 14:27:06 rme [~rme@50.43.139.248] has joined #lisp 14:27:07 Let me rephrase. I'd be 100% more interested in Clojure if it didn't target a JVM. 14:27:10 Aluminium Box Clojure 14:27:13 or Clozure CLojure 14:27:17 a VM* 14:27:18 if it didn't target a VM 14:27:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:27:39 yeah, that would be neat, but you could just do something similar in Scheme or CL (or ISLISP or whatever) if you really wanted to anyway 14:28:02 Bank Clojure. That sounds promising. 14:28:11 hahahahaha 14:30:10 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:30:16 S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has joined #lisp 14:30:26 -!- logicgee` [~user@129.215.36.46] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:40 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 14:34:09 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.255.227] has joined #lisp 14:34:17 *splittist* was thinking Titanium Hedgefund Clojure, but Zhivago's is funnier 14:34:46 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:35:37 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:37:40 i think the whole point of Clojure is to have the Java codebase available; 14:38:06 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:39:26 I wouldn't say that was the whole point. 14:40:47 I think ClojureScript proves it isn't the "whole point," but it may be a large point of current practical Clojure usage 14:41:21 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-158-1.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:15 vl4kn0 [~stepan_bu@213.122.216.11] has joined #lisp 14:44:16 -!- vl4kn0 [~stepan_bu@213.122.216.11] has left #lisp 14:45:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:45:32 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 14:47:29 TESTKEY [~TESTKEY@182.88.83.180] has joined #lisp 14:48:57 vl4kn0 [~stepan_bu@213.122.216.11] has joined #lisp 14:51:12 do clojure and clozure actually have the same pronunciation? 14:51:45 /klor/ yes 14:51:54 oh jeez 14:52:25 the same as closure 14:52:26 jdz: it seems more "do java with lispy syntax," since, for instance, abcl has java stuff available (no?) 14:52:36 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:15 oGMo: actually, direct java calls are relatively minor in most clojure code 14:53:20 Kawa, SISC, &c &c as well; I think it's more about the STM, the "purely functional data structures" and experimentation then just about "java with lispy syntax" 14:53:24 oGMo: I don't think so; Clojure is focused on being functionally oriented as opposed to Java's object orientation 14:53:46 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:54:17 IMHO its for people who want to feel they are following "the functional" trend, but are afraid to go full retard to haskell 14:54:18 I wonder what #clojure has to say about Clojure3. 14:54:18 S11001001: i couldn't do some simple math without invoking Java 14:54:18 ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@111.15.21.70] has joined #lisp 14:54:21 s/3// 14:54:24 so they can have their cake and eat it too 14:54:57 ah i see the bit about immutable stuff 14:55:05 stassats: math is unimportant enough that it's a separate library 14:55:08 and on the clozure web site it says the name was changed to clozure to avoid confusion with mcl... 14:55:10 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:55:51 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-160-107.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:51 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.104.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:57:37 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-19.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:32 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 14:58:51 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-107.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:02:35 Dalek_Baldwin: I prefer to pronounce them like in French: klosy, klozy and kloy 15:03:46 hi 15:04:46 I've got problem with cl-ppcre. I'm using this regexp to scan for email and email obfuscations in a text file: ((?:[A-Za-z0-9_\- ]+(?:\.| dot )*)+)[ ]*(@| at |\(at\))[ ]*((?:[A-Za-z0-9_\-]+(?:\.| dot )+)+[A-Za-z]{2,4}) 15:05:25 it found the first two emails but it never exited from cl-ppcre:scan 15:05:31 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:05:34 the only google results for "clojure" on the clozure web site are in their mailing list archives so I guess they don't care too much about the possibility of confusion anymore 15:05:46 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-24-218-41.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:05:52 Posterdati: Oh. It sounds like you have two problems now. 15:05:58 Posterdati: trying to extract real emails from obfuscated ones then? 15:06:25 sykopomp: actually three 15:06:29 Posterdati: one would argue that if people obfuscated their emails, they would rather you not mine them. 15:06:33 so that's another problem for you. 15:06:53 this is part of an assignment for nlp class :) 15:07:12 asking in #lisp for homework help? Another problem! 15:07:26 Dalek_Baldwin: Of course Clozure cares, but what can be done? Clozure Associates existed before Clojure, Rich Hickey isn't going to rename Clojure to something else, and Clozure Associates isn't going to change its name either. 15:07:30 orivej [~orivej@ip-83-149-3-61.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 15:08:05 sykopomp: the regexp actually works I tested it with "Visual REGEXP 3.1" but it blocks with cl-ppcre 15:08:27 Posterdati: try the regex coach 15:08:30 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 15:08:36 H4ns: what is it? 15:08:58 Posterdati: it is the lisp application that you can use to test cl-ppcre regular expressions. available from weitz.de 15:09:13 ok 15:09:20 metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 15:10:20 Posterdati: you did not paste real source code and you should not (use paste.lisp.org), but from what you pasted, it seems that you've not properly quoted your backslashes. 15:10:41 -!- zii [~root@unaffiliated/sie] has left #lisp 15:10:43 ok 15:10:52 I'm pasting the current version 15:11:01 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:11:46 H4ns: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128447 15:12:20 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:12:21 Posterdati: i cannot debug that for you, i'm sorry. 15:12:24 H4ns: I used \\., \\- or \\( to enter ., - and ( respectively 15:12:48 Posterdati: there is no need to quote - 15:12:57 ok 15:13:23 is it correct to use \\( for ( character 15:13:24 ? 15:13:44 Posterdati: yes. 15:14:13 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:14:24 ok thanks 15:15:52 -!- metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:16:49 why do you put space inside []? 15:17:22 and it's better to use \s anyway 15:18:19 metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 15:18:24 you need to really learn regexps 15:23:42 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.247.25] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 15:24:05 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-78.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:24:48 devnull1 [~philipp@p4FF163EC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:07 -!- benny [~benny@i577A20F9.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:27:31 m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.204] has joined #lisp 15:28:21 -!- metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:29:03 metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 15:29:56 and surely there's an actual parser that's fairly easy to use .. cliki lists quite a few 15:30:55 -!- metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Client Quit] 15:32:26 -!- vl4kn0 [~stepan_bu@213.122.216.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:32:35 -!- ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@111.15.21.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:32:39 -!- emacsuser [~user@194.249.198.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:59 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.108.77] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 15:33:14 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.108.77] has joined #lisp 15:33:52 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 15:35:38 workflow [~workflow@178-83-8-30.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:36:27 daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 15:36:57 thats \\s in common lisp :p 15:37:08 unless you use cl-interpol 15:37:50 i meant \s as in regexp syntax, using your head is still required 15:38:37 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.108.77] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 15:38:53 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.108.77] has joined #lisp 15:38:57 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:40:55 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 15:41:53 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 15:42:09 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:43:17 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:43:24 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:43:50 ehu [~ehuels@109.35.4.98] has joined #lisp 15:46:30 Hello 15:46:30 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-78.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:46:45 What's the generally recommended pattern matching library in here? 15:46:56 I'm looking for ideas. 15:47:15 -!- killerboy is now known as spacebuttonman 15:47:29 -!- spacebuttonman is now known as spacebuttonboy 15:47:42 Cosman246: what kind of patterns are you trying to match? 15:48:00 Again, I'm just looking for ideas, so....trees 15:48:14 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:48:34 stassats: \s* 15:49:05 Cosman246: maybe you want unification? 15:49:25 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:49:55 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:50:21 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-bpcojclntsuhsand] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:50:52 benny [~benny@i577A283A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:51:01 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:51:16 jdz: as in Prolog? 15:51:58 Cosman246: don't ask me 15:52:13 -!- splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:52:17 Cosman246: i have no clue what you want 15:52:30 OK, let's go with that 15:52:47 What library is recommended for unification? 15:53:06 well, there's pattern matching on function arguments, text pattern matching, &c &c. 15:53:18 Ah 15:53:24 So it's a really broad term 15:53:27 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 15:53:33 Cosman246: cliki.net lists something like 7 of them when searched for "unification" 15:53:34 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 12.0/20120314195616]] 15:53:59 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:54:10 OK, thanks 15:54:28 fgomez [~Fernando@uws22464usr.uws.ualberta.ca] has joined #lisp 15:54:49 -!- fgomez [~Fernando@uws22464usr.uws.ualberta.ca] has left #lisp 15:55:46 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 15:56:32 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-eexovijegkqvmcwk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:56:45 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 15:57:40 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-72-163.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 15:59:08 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:59:29 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:00:09 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:00:52 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:01:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:01:05 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:03:24 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-24-163-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:31 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-160-107.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:05:32 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 16:07:52 -!- spacebuttonboy is now known as killerboy 16:08:59 -!- devnull1 [~philipp@p4FF163EC.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 16:09:29 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 16:09:44 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-jxqyndokknlyrrwq] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:11:59 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:12:21 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: good bye] 16:12:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:07 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:13:43 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@100.Red-88-11-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 16:16:45 Youdaman [~Youdaman@ppp121-44-42-54.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:24 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:17:39 -!- vtz [~user@client-73-37-12.speedy-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:17:58 -!- Skola [~bas@89.184.179.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:18:28 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0C9B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:19:37 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-158-1.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 16:20:15 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:20:26 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.35.4.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:20:47 -!- Youdaman [~Youdaman@ppp121-44-42-54.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has left #lisp 16:21:13 pjb: I read your post :) 16:23:55 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-107.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:24:02 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:26:03 espadrine [~thaddee_t@acces2373.res.insa-lyon.fr] has joined #lisp 16:27:09 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-107.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:29:33 JKiiski [~JKiiski@178.239.192.175] has joined #lisp 16:32:14 -!- nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-81-132.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:46 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-81-132.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:32:47 I opposed unification, myself. 16:33:50 Cosman246: cl-match (in quicklisp) is good; it proved to be as fast as manual decomposition to me, and it was shown to be hunders of times faster than cl-unification on a simple test elsewhere. Though nearly always Let-plus is enough for me. 16:34:48 tritchey [~tritchey@108.60.121.114] has joined #lisp 16:35:10 dlowe: May I ask why? 16:35:11 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-158-1.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:12 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 16:37:13 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-81-132.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:37:51 orivej: I felt the core planets don't really understand the politics and needs of the border planet constituency. 16:38:14 asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:38:15 doesn't matter now, in any case 16:38:17 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 16:39:18 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-386572.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:39:34 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.14.79] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 16:40:04 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-386572.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:08 -!- gekko_ [~jjk@server1.pro-it.dk] has quit [Read error: 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connection] 17:47:33 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-399489.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:50:31 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-399212.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:55:22 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.237] has joined #lisp 17:55:47 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@12.130.118.9] has joined #lisp 17:56:06 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:57:02 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:57:07 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-399489.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:57:43 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:53 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:57:53 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:58:55 -!- JKiiski [~JKiiski@178.239.192.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:56 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0C9B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:59:40 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:06 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-319513.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:07:54 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-409390.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:09:25 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-319513.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:10:00 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@12.130.118.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:10:05 hrm isn't there a way to set default indentation with slime's define-common-lisp-style? 18:11:34 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:06 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:08 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0C9B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:13:17 segv_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-115-007.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:17:44 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:18:50 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:20:25 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 18:20:52 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:23 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.175.42] has joined #lisp 18:22:21 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:25:59 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:26:47 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:28:02 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.56.121] has joined #lisp 18:29:42 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-78.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:30:01 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:30:54 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:31:08 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:45 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-77-152.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 18:31:59 ynniv [~ynniv@c-76-23-252-81.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:11 -!- Kryztof [~user@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:32:32 is there a memoization library, or is that something people do by hand? 18:32:51 ynniv: there are a few 18:32:56 -!- dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:03 I don't see any mention of a lib for ccl, and quicklisp apropos doesn't return anything 18:33:19 oGMo: given the description of the function you can use (:indentation (symbol spec)) (C-h f define-common-lisp-style) 18:33:57 ynniv: see defmemo and memoize 18:34:02 or fare-memoization 18:34:09 ynniv: what did you use for apropos terms? 18:34:32 "defmemo", "memo" 18:34:44 maybe my ql is out of date? 18:35:34 -!- teggi_ [~teggi@123.21.169.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:46 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:36:04 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 18:36:08 possibly 18:36:23 hah. "Changes from quicklisp 2011-01-10 to quicklisp 2012-03-07" is a rather long list 18:36:30 I bet! 18:36:47 by the way, thanks for making lisp more awesome! 18:36:51 no problem 18:36:53 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-78.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:36:58 daimrod: i want to set the default for everything unspecified 18:37:44 (i don't see any examples of this in the predefined styles and setting lisp-indent-offset kills it all) 18:38:06 I use a hook. 18:49:07 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:50:22 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:50:53 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:52:09 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:52:40 optikalmouse [~user@76.9.199.178] has joined #lisp 18:52:55 time to join #lisp and listen to some smart people talk. 18:53:14 3 meetings today and none of them were particularly interested w.r.t programming/CS :/ 18:54:32 Come on out to Boston for the Boston Lisp meeting! 18:55:00 Xach: I'm scared of the Toliet Safety Administration. 18:55:46 -!- _death [void@flash.ignite.lol.vc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:01 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:08 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:57:53 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:57:59 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:58:42 Get over it. 19:00:10 "now shut up and get on the probulator" 19:02:45 Xach: but my junk, I don't want it being touched :( 19:03:47 does anyone know if allegro guys actually have 64 bit version? 19:04:18 i specifically asked for that, but the guy responded with "we can offer you two options on buying 32-bit one" 19:04:44 maxm-: why do you want a 64-bit version? you're just going to waste all those bits anyway. 19:04:47 -!- orivej [~orivej@ip-83-149-3-61.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:05:08 to access's more memory? 19:05:11 optikalmouse: my data will not fit into 32 bit address space 19:05:29 how did "'s" get there? 19:05:41 it seems their sales guy is a sales drone, unless hes playing dumb 19:06:35 maxm-: split it in half, done ;) 19:06:36 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 19:07:14 does anyone still make 32 bit cpu's anyway? 19:07:27 intel does 19:09:45 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:10:06 atmel does 19:10:18 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:10:30 that about covers the major chip manufacturers 19:10:41 don't the PIC guys have some too? 19:10:53 hell, aren't ARMs 32bit? 19:11:00 maxm-: you can't stream the data? 19:11:08 maxm-: ARM sublicensees do. 19:11:10 ARM don't manufacture 19:11:37 indeed, but their so named class of chips are 32bit. 19:11:51 they have 64-bit too 19:11:52 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:11:53 ello what is lisp equivalent of a while loop? 19:11:59 LOOP 19:12:06 cool 19:12:08 oh 19:12:10 DO 19:12:19 thx 19:12:20 daem0n: (loop while condition do stuff) 19:12:21 daem0n: what do you want to do with the loop? 19:12:24 DON'T 19:12:40 give a conditional statement optikalmouse 19:12:42 don't listen to stassats, loop is awesome! 19:12:55 yeah, just do what dlowe said. 19:13:05 dlowe: you're not to listen to me if you thin DO is awesome 19:13:07 awesome 19:13:30 stassats`: I didn't connect it properly with context 19:13:56 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:13:56 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:22 Ralith: well my code already mostly written and working on SBCL. I wanted allegro coz I was impressed by their debugger video. I'm not going to waste time rewriting tons of code to get back into 32-bit address space, just to use Allegro CL.. Its no big deal, if they don't want my money, its their product 19:15:15 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-225-198.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:15:36 snearch [~snearch@f053012057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:15:53 maxm-: do you allocate >4GB of storage, or use the address space otherwise? 19:16:20 4GB is pretty tame 19:16:41 Ralith: my working set usually has around 14 gigs of data (just enough not to swap), since I have 16 physical gigs 19:16:44 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-210-81.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:59 10 years of tick data on major commodities :-) 19:17:28 sounds fun 19:17:46 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-15-182.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 19:21:03 *maxm-* always have a feeling there are bunch of real quants chuckling quietly at what his doing, but then I read some quant forums, and there are bunch of guys using mathematica to overfit neural nets, and asking each other why it won't work in real life 19:21:12 maybe they do it to throw competitors off :-) 19:21:49 do you? 19:24:24 It's always seemed to me that analyzing market data without reference to real world events is chasing ghosts at best 19:24:48 oh ppl do event trading since forever 19:25:05 its basically a simple regexp -> list of stuff to buy/sell trigger 19:25:37 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:14 you can see it in real time as fed decision are being announced (if it was not leaked). "the federal reserve thinks economic condition are dire" (futures drop 50 points cascading stops away) "but will improve" (futures back and then 20 points up in a second) 19:26:15 "new SBCL release, sell Allegro options" 19:26:21 m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.141] has joined #lisp 19:27:30 also on each company earnings announcement.. Guy who do it, actually co-locate, so they can regexp match the news millisecond faster then the other guy 19:29:04 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-409390.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:29:20 I just realized that Russ Tyndall's css-selectors library uses a macro to precompile selectors 19:29:45 but only if the selector is static. wrap that in a function and you face a 20x performance hit 19:30:21 the blade of lisp is sharp 19:30:42 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-409755.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:31:52 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:32:22 segv__ [~mb@dslb-088-075-115-007.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:12 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:37 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:35:00 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 19:35:32 -!- segv_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-115-007.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:37:42 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-319834.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:38:12 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053012057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:39:52 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-409755.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:41:33 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:15 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: bye] 19:43:23 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:43:48 -!- loktight [~loktite@c-98-202-2-109.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:17 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:46:42 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.56.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:48:57 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:04 Guthur [~user@212.183.140.50] has joined #lisp 19:52:08 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:55:26 albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:27 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:55:27 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 20:01:38 Arbamisto [~christoph@192.188.108.71] has joined #lisp 20:02:14 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:02:29 maxm-: Re: quants & Mathematica -- there's a difference between quants who are modeling and the guys implementing the models in transactional systems. ;] 20:03:35 dnm: yea I'm well aware of "in theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is" situation 20:03:53 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 20:04:01 maxm-: The overwhelming majority of the latter seem to be using C++ in most firms, for the usual suspect reasons. 20:04:23 dnm: I actually use c++ for most of my stuff, using lisp as a front-end for rapid prototyping 20:04:26 maxm-: (this is not an argument you should or that CL isn't suited there, just what I've observed) 20:06:10 the 14 gig of data I mentioned is actually mmaped from cache on c++ side, passed as foreign pointers to lisp 20:06:37 thanks to sbcl, i can have (with-series) macro that compiled to pretty efficient code walking such arrays 20:07:10 maxm-: Nice. 20:08:33 oh, so you don't alloc it, you mmap it 20:10:18 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.49.151] has joined #lisp 20:11:47 maxm-: Where'd you get your tick data from? 20:12:05 dnm: collected over the years from iqfeed and IB 20:12:42 maxm-: Ah. 20:13:31 iqfeed historical data is no good, you need to collect it. Their historical tick data does not have bid/ask quotes, just the sales. Makes having a correct simulation of limit orders impossible 20:13:59 *dnm* nods 20:14:25 Free financial data streams & high quality archives still seem broadly hard to come by. 20:14:29 Sadly. 20:16:05 Marc Battyani's work on Lisp compiled to hardware for this kind of stuff is neat. 20:17:07 Xach: I know he talked about that at an ILC or ECLM some years back, but did any of that get released? 20:17:40 SBCL is compiled to hardware 20:18:06 maxm-: Franz definitely makes 64-bit ACL editions. 20:18:22 sbcl on fpga 20:18:25 dnm: thanks, guess their sales guy just being obtuse 20:18:26 compiled to hardware? 20:18:51 well, hardware can execute what sbcl compiles to 20:19:09 it compiles to assembler? 20:19:11 maxm-: http://franz.com/products/packages/ 20:19:28 albacker: no, it compiles to machine code 20:19:36 albacker: No, IIRC, he was compiling from CL to netlists. 20:19:37 dnm: "released"? 20:19:37 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:19:45 jake___ [~jake@63.249.57.43] has joined #lisp 20:19:49 dnm: he founded a company for it and has a few CL hackers in his employ 20:19:55 And then using vendor tools to make whatever his vendor's FPGA bitcode was from the netlists. 20:20:03 stassats, ok such as gcc does? 20:20:20 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:20:27 Xach: Ah, yeah. I knew he was pursuing it commercially, but I didn't know if he went through with that or moved on to something else. Either way, I was wondering if there was any code dropped. 20:20:35 gcc compiles to machine code as well 20:20:43 albacker & stassats` -- No, not machine code. 20:20:50 Not in the common sense anyway. 20:21:23 From CL to a hardware design. I don't think he's compiling to soft core instrs either, that wouldn't make any sense if he's doing all this for performance. 20:22:29 its not really the speed that you can crunch indicators 20:22:50 *dnm* works with FPGAs (for fun, currently), but not in any financial context. 20:22:51 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has joined #lisp 20:23:03 in fact today hardware speed, just lets ppl search bigger search space, so they get good performing system by pure chance 20:23:10 that also passes validation 20:24:34 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 20:24:38 not that speed does not matter, just the faster you can search stuff, the more careful you need to be about overfitting 20:24:41 -!- tali713 is now known as talibot 20:24:53 maxm-: In trading, there seem to be some people using or attempting to use FPGAs in such a way that they can implement execution logic as close to the wire as possible, e.g. without the standard path from CPU & memory to the Ethernet PHY -- just put it all on an FPGA with an PHY core as well. 20:25:38 -!- talibot is now known as tali713 20:25:40 dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:57 maxm-: Only makes sense for HFT, obviously. 20:26:31 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:27:09 maxm-: I find the quants near(ish) me at work use mostly MATLAB and Excel. 20:27:13 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:25 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-148-107.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:27:34 drone [~drone@ip68-13-152-156.om.om.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:54 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:28:14 dnm: i think the close to the wire execution is what Marc is doing http://www.novasparks.com/what-is-hardware-processing.html 20:28:16 -!- segv__ [~mb@dslb-088-075-115-007.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv__] 20:29:07 and look where it got them.. Excel model says AAA cdo comprized of subbrime stuff was super-safe 20:29:45 when any sane person could say that "there is simply no way a dishwasher can live in 700k house" 20:29:49 maxm-: Well, that's not Excel's fault. To paraphrase the old adage, you can write a bad model in anything. 20:30:34 Though I agree the widespread dependency on Excel in finance is troubling for other reasons, mostly around complexity and expressability. 20:30:54 dnm: suggestions for a replacement? 20:30:58 nicdev_: Yeah, I just went looking for the company and found the site. Thanks for the deep link. 20:31:22 *maxm-* actually looked at some of the stuff supposedly "professional" guys doing forex trading are doing, and its literally martingale strategy. They run systems with 1 point profit target and 30 point stop, fooling themselfs they won't blow up 20:31:37 they can juts as well enter at random 20:31:53 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 20:31:58 kleppari: Oh, I've no idea. MATLAB and Mathematica seem too general purpose and targeted at a different audience. People have tried though, with things like Quantrix and Resolver One. It seems the spreadsheet concept should stick around, but the guts should be cleaner and more extensible? 20:32:16 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF78E8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 20:32:56 kleppari: I don't work in the field, so this is all armchair quaterbacking from me. I'm going on what I hear and read people saying, including some near me. 20:33:22 *maxm-* worked with a guy who did contracts for private equity hedge fund, and their shtick was that each "deal" was literally a separate excel/vb program, that kept being added to, as they kept hedging, re-hedging, selling and calling back bonds and such 20:33:31 dnm: I haven't really thought about it, your statement just caught my interest. Our banking clients are highly dependant on both Excel and batch jobs walk database tables. I just think both methods suck. :) 20:34:09 a fund did maybe 2-3 "deals" per year, and each deal was a separate program with 2-3 VB contractors working under the banker 20:35:11 maxm-: Heh, that doesn't sound too foreign to me either. 20:37:22 the more you know about this stuff, the more you realize that most wallst guys may not actually know wtf they are doing 20:37:26 it scary :-) 20:37:41 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:38:03 I think the technology choices are usually the least of the concerns though. 20:38:04 maxm-: s/wallst/finance/; 20:38:23 on the other hand "if you are so smart, why you are so poor", trading account size is ultimately what separates those who do and those who talk 20:38:41 "The Golden Rules" 20:39:04 maxm-: Which quant/FE forums do you read regularly? 20:39:35 dnm: I don't recently, but I used to read nuclyar phynance or such 20:39:44 *dnm* nods 20:40:26 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081CCC6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:35 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.139.248] has left #lisp 20:40:52 hmm, trying to install asdf for lispworks but I get this error: 20:40:55 The symbol "GET-FOLDER-PATH" is not external in 20:40:57 the SYSTEM package. 20:41:31 asdf/lispworks is too old/new 20:41:46 so what should I use if I wanna get sdl for lisp? 20:41:58 ie this: http://code.google.com/p/lispbuilder/ 20:42:33 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-148-107.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: qicr for android: faster and better] 20:43:31 let me guess, bu asdf, did you mean asdf-install? 20:43:38 s/bu/by/ 20:43:46 those two are not the same? 20:44:10 absolutely no 20:44:11 i'd say that's a problem 20:44:12 as far as I know that lib requires asdf and cffi 20:44:14 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:44:34 every library uses asdf 20:44:41 have you tried using quicklisp? 20:45:24 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-148-107.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:46:26 I really need to play with CXML more. 20:46:30 I think I did 20:47:52 -!- S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:48:29 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081CCC6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:38 but only for cl-opengl 20:48:45 which didnt work, but works now.... 20:49:34 is there a way to not use quicklisp after I got the libraries and instead load it by hand? 20:49:57 you can load it using asdf 20:49:57 you can call ASDF directly 20:52:05 hmm 20:52:17 is there a way to know if quicklisp is already installed? 20:53:15 try using your memory 20:53:24 find ~ -name quicklisp.lisp 20:53:27 "did i install it or did i not?" 20:53:32 no 20:53:42 I would like to have install code in the loading .lisp file 20:55:50 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@100.Red-88-11-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 20:56:36 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:58:19 hmm I suppose I can do something like this: 20:58:29 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/568716/ 20:59:18 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-110.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:40 davlaps [~davlaps@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:41 hmm, it's unclear where exactly you are planning on putting that code 20:59:55 clx is so poorly specified ;/ 21:00:45 wbooze_ [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-148-107.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:00:47 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-148-107.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:15 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:01:17 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:04:36 Enerccio: typically you specify the dependencies of your project in a .asd file. When you load your package with ql or asdf they will load the dependencies based the asd file. 21:05:26 I see 21:06:31 well what I want is to program it in lispworks and then compile it with sbcl later 21:10:54 Enerccio: orthogonal; asd doesn't specify the lisp 21:11:39 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:12:00 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-72-163.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 21:12:03 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:12:58 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:13:11 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-72-163.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:13:29 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.255.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:14:57 Kryztof [~user@77-58-246-8.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:15:59 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:17:02 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:20:56 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-107.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:16 sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 21:21:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.108.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:21:57 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:22:23 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-107.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:22:39 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:25:31 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:26:31 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:13 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:00 sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 21:28:22 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 21:31:48 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:32:35 any suggestions for sorting a list of lists? i know that (sort list #'< :key #'first) will work, but if the first of each sublist match, i want to move to the second, then stop. 21:33:43 drone: do you want a lexical ordering? 21:33:54 numeric 21:33:55 ikki [~ikki@68-r9-r1m.bb.itelcel.com] has joined #lisp 21:34:03 lists aren't numbers. 21:34:13 drone: https://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/a14dcbfcf6cccd13?&noredirect has something on that topic 21:34:44 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:34:50 ralith: sorry, yes, but I need it to stop after matching the second. So if it first of each matches, then check second, and if that matches, then they're seen as equal 21:35:04 xach: thanks for the link,checking it out 21:35:07 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-72-163.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 21:35:16 a custom predicate does indeed seem like the simplest result. 21:35:23 the sublists may contain >2 elements? 21:35:26 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:35:38 Each sublist contains 3 elements, but I do not want to sort on the third. 21:40:44 Xach's example is probably best, then. 21:41:05 Is there a way to format a floating point value to 9 characters including decimal and have extra zeros be after decimal point? (ie 123.43 => 123.43000, 0.5 => 0.5000000) 21:45:29 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082A61B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:24 -!- wbooze_ [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-148-107.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: qicr for android: faster and better] 21:46:43 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-148-107.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:47:32 howeyc: i would be surprised if not. You can have fun figuring out this one ==> file:///usr/share/doc/HyperSpec/Body/22_ccc.htm 21:47:40 bah 21:47:50 sorry 21:47:53 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-158-1.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 21:48:05 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B185.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:48:28 chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.39.219.179] has joined #lisp 21:48:28 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.39.219.179] has quit [Changing host] 21:48:28 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 21:49:11 Is there a standard way to obtain an arity from an arglist? 21:49:20 lambda-list I should say 21:49:29 howeyc: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/22_ccc.htm 21:49:38 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:49:47 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-216-211.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:50:43 orivej [~orivej@ip-83-149-3-61.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 21:51:15 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@40-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:51:18 -!- kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:51:18 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-158-1.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:20 Hello Lispers! I have a question about puri and rfc 2396 vs rfc 3986 21:51:21 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128452 21:51:58 lemoinem [~swoog@254-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:04 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-235-126.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:53:22 hmmm, i wonder why scheme is available on android but not common-lisp 21:56:13 wbooze: scheme can be made extremely small. 21:56:21 iirc, clisp is available 21:56:29 oh 21:56:37 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-319834.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:43 <_KY_> Is there a library for lisp that does distributive message passing similar to Erlang's? 21:56:50 wbooze: also a sicp author was at Google for a year working on scheme for android 21:56:56 my search for lisp returned nothing or my eyes just skipped over clisp 21:57:07 ah ok 21:58:14 wbooze: as i said, iirc. maybe idrc :-) 21:58:51 In case anyone was wondering about my problem, I was trying with F, but it seems G is the answer: (format t "~,8G" 345545.5) => 345545.50 21:59:17 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:59:43 nope nothing of a clisp to be found there..... 21:59:49 hmm 22:00:08 -!- optikalmouse [~user@76.9.199.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:46 ASau [~user@95-24-232-151.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:00:48 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.146.22.181] has joined #lisp 22:00:49 Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.105.96] has joined #lisp 22:01:14 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002131087122.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 22:01:48 homie: ecl seems to run on android: https://github.com/ageneau/ecl-android 22:02:19 wbooze: https://github.com/ageneau/ecl-android 22:02:51 cool 22:04:25 -!- NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.22.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:06:33 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:59 hmmm, it's just source code 22:07:06 no prebuilt apk 22:07:58 can CL GC sets of unreferenced elements that reference eachother? 22:08:01 https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ecl+apk 22:08:04 that is to say 22:08:20 Ralith: of course 22:08:22 otherwise unreferenced 22:08:43 e.g. an unreferenced circular list 22:08:44 any gc worth its money can do that 22:08:48 okay, cool 22:08:57 wasn't sure 22:09:29 Ralith: it's a problem with reference counting systems, not proper GCs 22:09:34 some people blasphemously call refcounting a GC, though 22:09:46 noted 22:14:22 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-006.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:41 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:16:28 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.175.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:18:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-214-97.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:19 hi 22:19:09 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 22:19:22 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:20:42 -!- dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:21:14 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c036a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:21:20 flipout_1 [~scense@75-175-117-158.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:27 -!- flipout [~scense@75-175-117-61.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:22:56 p_l|dublin: are you in Dublin? 22:23:28 Guthur: yep 22:23:54 work, holiday or study? 22:24:13 job interview with google, so in a way all three 22:24:27 ah, cool, hope you do well 22:25:30 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:34 I'm just up the road 22:26:08 well quite a bit up the road, Belfast, not far in the grand scheme of things though 22:26:43 [6502] [5e24f39c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.243.156] has joined #lisp 22:27:02 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:27:38 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:27:57 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.49.151] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:30:26 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:11 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:32:43 Kreol[UKR] [55c6adb5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.198.173.181] has joined #lisp 22:34:05 -!- pcavs [~Adium@63.139.127.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:35:22 <[6502]> Is replacing the symbol-function of a symbol supported? I was wondering if it's ok to skip some parameter checking if the call comes from a static (non-funcall) invokation... but that would break if the function is replaced 22:38:04 -!- jake___ [~jake@63.249.57.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:39:29 acml [~user@92.44.198.168] has joined #lisp 22:40:32 6502: in limited practice it has worked. not sure what the standard allows 22:40:40 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-235-126.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:46 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:49 -!- Kreol[UKR] [55c6adb5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.198.173.181] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:41:40 if you want to optimize parameter checking, just make 2 'entry point' functions, and have one tail-call the other 22:41:56 the minor overhead of tail-call should be dwarfed by the checking anyway 22:42:59 <[6502]> Phoodus: indeed i care more about the speed of the static calls... e.g. a fibonacci without parameter checking is 300% faster than with parameter checking 22:43:20 <[6502]> Phoodus: even more of a difference on 64 bit (no idea why) 22:44:55 most of the recursive calls I make are in a labels loop inside the externally-callable function 22:45:06 so the inner guts can make all the assumptions it needs to stay fast 22:46:02 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has joined #lisp 22:46:12 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:46:40 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:57 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 22:49:18 in SBCL at least, labels loops directly call addresses. Doing 'static' function calls still dereferences through the fdefinition object 22:50:51 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:52:32 [6502]: ueee hi 22:53:08 -!- ikki [~ikki@68-r9-r1m.bb.itelcel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:55:26 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-15-182.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 22:58:37 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-77-152.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:01:05 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has joined #lisp 23:03:03 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 23:07:10 what does this % mean in the beginning of some slot names? 23:07:43 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:20 Phoodus: if you declare them ftype, it will call them directly with speed 3 23:09:25 if I remember right 23:09:29 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:09:31 copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has joined #lisp 23:09:34 declaim them ftype 23:09:50 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 23:13:47 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 23:18:38 Farzad: it doesn't really have an intrinsic meaning. it's often used to indicate something that's only used internally. 23:19:41 Farzad: it's similar in meaning to how some people like to call a variable foo which is an integer foo_i in C 23:19:58 fukushima [~fukushima@z1.61-193-209.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:21:56 madnificent: thanks 23:22:39 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:25:08 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-247-25.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:25:36 -!- acml [~user@92.44.198.168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:10 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.140.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:33 _KY_: not that i know of. there are libraries to help with parallellization, but i don't know each of them by heart nor do i know the intrinsic values Erlang brings to the table. have you tried cliki and the likes? 23:32:14 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-210-81.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:33:28 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip70-189-66-194.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:35:36 kruhft [~user@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:59 what are cases in XML generation where you'd use the toplevel form but wouldn't want to add the doctype definition? the case i can think of is one in which you embed an svg document inside an html page. are there other, similar, cases i should take into account? 23:44:35 -!- hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hydo] 23:44:44 hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:26 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:21 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has joined #lisp 23:51:16 kanru` [~user@61-228-144-165.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:11 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:28 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 23:56:37 BeWhy [~chatzilla@c-76-124-138-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:56 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]