00:01:33 tran4 [~asddf@adsl-74-160-226-71.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:36 I'm a senior CS undergrad. I applied to a company for co-op and intern positions: http://pastebin.com/LdAH6eaZ Are they good? Should I respond to the recruiter about this job or wait and see if the company contacts me? I applied thru both. The recruiter's ad lists $14/hr. I live with my parents and they want me to get some work experience this summer. I havent had many replies. 00:02:02 davlap [~davlaps@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:17 -!- davlap is now known as davlaps 00:02:22 tran4: you should ask your advisor those questions. 00:02:24 tran4: What does this have to do with Lisp? 00:03:53 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 00:04:41 -!- Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:05:49 tran4: have you asked reddit? 00:11:15 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:11:19 -!- tran4 [~asddf@adsl-74-160-226-71.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [K-Lined] 00:11:31 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:08 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-237-2-224.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:14:50 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:17:48 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: good night] 00:17:49 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:20:06 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-240-200-151.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:06 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-240-200-151.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:20:06 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:23:00 vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:26:59 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.184.114] has quit [Quit: rme] 00:27:26 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.143.157] has joined #lisp 00:30:07 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:21 This is a free course on intro cryptography. I signed up for it. There are no commitments (you don't even have to use your real name). If anyone is interested we have a study group channel if you want to sign up for it ---- https://www.coursera.org/crypto/auth/welcome 00:35:33 I thought perhaps some people here might find it interesting. 00:35:41 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-60-28.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 00:37:31 killown [~geek@189.110.205.115] has joined #lisp 00:37:41 -!- killown [~geek@189.110.205.115] has quit [Changing host] 00:37:41 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 00:40:32 rme [~rme@50.43.184.114] has joined #lisp 00:41:06 Hey, I'm having trouble calling a macro I made. there seems to be some issue with evaluating the list that is a global parameter. http://paste.lisp.org/+2R0N 00:41:54 ravster: What exactly is the issue? 00:42:34 when calling the macro, it says that 'training-functions' is not a list, and gives up. 00:42:47 ravster: training-functions is not a list. it is a symbol. 00:44:18 I think I need to figure out how to make the 'list-of-functions call within the loop actually evaluate to the training-functions list. But when I put a comma before that, it doesn't create the new macro, saying that there is a comma without a backquote. 00:45:15 ravster: You might want to practice on simpler macros. 00:45:36 ravster: also worth noting that your special variable should have **s around it, and that it is also not a list of functions...it's a list of lists. 00:45:40 (loop for function-name in 'training-functions ..) is what's getting run at compile-time 00:45:48 (macroexpand ...) is your friend 00:46:06 It's a list of lists like (FUNCTION ATRB), (FUNCTION ADX), etc. 00:46:36 KDr2 [~kdr2@125.34.44.120] has joined #lisp 00:47:35 Fade: doesn't really help when the macroexpansion code itself errors out, though 00:48:28 ravster: is there any reason you can't run the loop at runtime instead of at compile-time? 00:49:21 seeing as it's a defparameter, I presume it's one-time toplevel stuff 00:50:07 well, the code needs to be at least semantically viable, that's true. 00:50:46 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 00:51:41 Phoodus: there isn't any reason for doing the whole thing during runtime. 00:51:44 -!- agumonkey [agumonkey@143.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:52:06 another issue that might bite you is the availability of the training-functions value during compile-time 00:52:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:52:15 cbp` [~user@187.208.0.7] has joined #lisp 00:52:18 if you run it at runtime, then it should always be there 00:52:33 didn't think about that one. 00:52:39 thanks for the tip. 00:52:56 np 00:53:32 In practice, it'd be a real edge case; but it does remain a possibility 00:54:38 -!- e__krappi [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:54:44 e__krappi [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 00:55:26 is there any way for a function to create new global symbols? during runtime? 00:56:02 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:56:16 ravster: i'm quite sure the answer is yes, but i'm not sure what your question is 00:56:56 madnificent: :) 00:57:22 ravster: you want one of intern, make-symbol or export, i think. but i'm not sure what your goal is :/ 00:58:24 if your only access to a symbol's value is via symbol-value, then that should remain global 00:58:41 ale` [~user@dynamic-adsl-84-221-178-202.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 00:58:42 in the case of runtime-created symbols 00:59:17 is there a way for me to tell a function to do what a defparameter does? I'm trying to make it possible for users to name their own arrays with data, just in case they want to use multiple arrays in one session. 01:00:36 if you call defparameter at runtime, then make sure that code that accesses the variable by plain name gets compiled after the defparameter call 01:01:20 hi, are there any utilities to aid macro writing I should be aware of before reinventing the wheel? (I mean stuff to avoid multiple evaluation of macro arguments and (let ((name (gensym))) ...) wrappers and such) 01:01:47 Jsandys [~jeff@184-77-234-225.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:48 jeff__ [~jeff@184-77-234-225.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:58 or throw (declare (special ...)) everywhere 01:02:02 ale`: alexandria has some stuff 01:02:44 Phoodus: okay. 01:02:47 ale`: with-gensyms for (let ((name (gensym)) for instance 01:04:03 madnificent: thanks for pointing me :-) 01:04:24 you're welcome. there probable are other utilities as well. i use very few of them myself. 01:06:21 unfortunately, alexandria isn't a very descriptive library name, which is why some don't really know about it 01:08:12 *Sgeo* is tired 01:08:14 Phoodus: i only started using it once quicklisp came round. it was always too much of a fuss for me to install a library like alexandria on all places where i needed it, for the little things in which it helped me. it's always trivial to write the stuff yourself (only then it may contain subtle bugs) 01:08:27 ravster: defparameter does something at compilation time that implies that different code is compiled for the functions using the variable defined. 01:08:35 I still haven't ported over to alexandria :-/ 01:08:53 our helper lib grew pretty fast early on, and was quite mature before I found out about it 01:08:54 ravster: you can do the same at run-time, but since the functions are already compiled, they won't take into account the new special variable! 01:08:58 ravster: so what's the point? 01:10:06 Phoodus: you can always start using it for new projects and/or just call the things from your own library. though it may not be worth the hassle. alexandria occasionally has bugs as well so... 01:10:33 we do have a fair amount of overlap with alexandria, and some of the helpers they have are a bit better 01:10:35 but it's low priority 01:10:53 ravster: another idea might be to let users 'register' their variables in a hash-table which is supplied only for their session through a special variable (it's special, so you can shadow it) 01:11:10 ravster: (defun make-parameter (name value &optional documentation) (proclaim (list 'special name)) (setf (symbol-value name) value) (when documentation (setf (documentation name 'variable) documentation)) name) 01:11:19 Phoodus: what's the type of project you're working on/ 01:11:27 s/\//?/ 01:11:28 AI server 01:11:41 I actually saw something interesting on c.l.l 01:11:46 i'm still interested after AI server, any more information? 01:11:50 Sgeo: What? 01:12:14 madnificent: using forward + back chaining as an application programming language 01:12:15 Something about packages and separation of reader from evaluator, I think. 01:12:23 It pointed to two links 01:12:37 Let's see if I can find it again 01:12:47 madnificent: integrating AI techniques to be used for running applications, instead of just for doing typical "AI" stuff, where you still have 'legacy' programming running it 01:12:48 Sgeo: don't bother for me. 01:13:35 *pjb* sleeptime for pjb 01:13:37 pjb, considering that I didn't fully look it over, I bothered for myself, so may as well link 01:13:52 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/aa652aac0bcfcc4a 01:14:58 Phoodus, pjb , madnificent : thanks for your help. I think I should re-think some stuff before continuing. 01:15:03 Phoodus: do you have a link to some of your work or something of the likes? i doubt i'll make use of it in the short run, but i'd like to take a quick look :) 01:15:11 www.grindwork.com 01:15:37 ravster: tackle simple issues first, you'll get the hang of it. don't try to run before you've learned how to crawl :) 01:15:56 madnificent: I don't think our tutorials are up yet; working hard on some of the open facing stuff instead of just doing direct contracting stuff 01:16:59 Phoodus: how old is the company, how many employees? (or any other measure which gives me a clue about it) 01:17:24 madnificent: yeah, I should learn to restrain myself. :D thanks. 01:17:43 -!- ravster [~user@184.175.28.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:53 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:18:02 I think we founded 2008, we're embedded in stuff running at the largest nuclear power facility in the western hemisphere, if that's "card" enough 01:18:05 "cred" 01:18:48 Phoodus: oh no, i believed it made sense, i wasn't looking for credibility. i was just interested in the size and endeavor because i like lisp companies and i didn't know it :) 01:19:11 ah, well we're still pretty small head-count wise 01:19:12 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 01:19:48 you want it to be like that. you don't *need* many people, you need a good product. still it's interesting to know how 'corporate' it is :) 01:19:49 built the company around this tech, which grew from prior in-house development from a prior company 01:19:49 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@87-126-33-59.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:20:07 I don't think there's ever been a suit&tie in the office 01:20:18 sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 01:20:59 ah, so it's embedded in a bigger company? 01:21:32 no, it's a standalone company. I'm one of the founders 01:22:56 ah cool, congrats 01:25:18 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:20 -!- jeff__ [~jeff@184-77-234-225.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:26:37 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:32:33 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:00 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:34:21 iwillig [~iwillig@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:42 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:56 Phoodus: cool company. perfect application :) 01:34:59 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 01:37:59 Phoodus: second that 01:38:28 kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:21 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:41:34 backwards and forwards chaining... 01:41:49 that reminds me - did anyone do anything productible with Screamer? :D 01:42:42 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:36 Farzad` [~farzadbek@46.225.96.68] has joined #lisp 01:44:50 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-52-36.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:15 -!- Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.109.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:47:14 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-98-87-25-221.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:48:06 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:52:05 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:53:57 -!- Farzad` [~farzadbek@46.225.96.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:54:19 p_l: dunno if you caught my last message, but OpenGenera works on Ubutnu 8.04.4 01:55:12 I have a chef-solo / vagrantup.com script to automatically build a virtual machine that runs genera in VNC 01:55:44 thanks for the help 01:57:58 no problem 02:02:18 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AB6B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:04:05 xyxu [~xyxu@221.224.136.231] has joined #lisp 02:05:23 -!- BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.9.105] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:06:29 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:06:47 springz [~springz@216.24.205.54] has joined #lisp 02:12:46 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 02:13:43 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:46 dekuked [~user@pool-108-7-203-109.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:52 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@221.224.136.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:16:38 gko [~gko@220.228.255.202] has joined #lisp 02:18:44 -!- cbp` [~user@187.208.0.7] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:20:16 -!- dekuked [~user@pool-108-7-203-109.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:25:24 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 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[~ianmcorvi@pool-96-240-200-151.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:57:26 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 03:01:01 Got SBCL and CCL working with Hunchentoot on Heroku ;) 03:01:46 using the build pack? 03:01:53 yeah ;) 03:02:18 sbcl? anything funky you have to do? 03:02:31 Kenjin: anything special you needed to do? 03:02:35 if the details are posted anywhere i'd love to look at them 03:02:48 my fork ;) https://github.com/jsmpereira/heroku-buildpack-cl 03:03:44 *pnathan* tickies the watch button for later viewing 03:03:50 http://young-ocean-1914.herokuapp.com/ 03:03:55 http://gentle-ice-6152.herokuapp.com/ 03:04:02 one running sbcl and the other ccl 03:04:07 with hunchentoot 03:04:32 Ooh 03:04:39 I'm gonna try and add back support for portableallegro 03:04:52 Maybe this will be the impetus I need to try web dev 03:04:53 >.> 03:11:16 brianchhun [~brianchhu@adsl-99-140-250-186.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:46 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:06 -!- agam [agam@nat/google/x-uoothqbjcufvzbcz] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 03:21:02 anyone fairly familiar with sed here? 03:21:45 brianchhun: why are you asking in #lisp? 03:22:02 because it was conveniently open 03:22:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.173.199] has joined #lisp 03:22:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.173.199] has quit [Changing host] 03:22:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:23:11 Vicfred [~Futaba@189.228.38.201] has joined #lisp 03:23:45 -!- brianchhun [~brianchhu@adsl-99-140-250-186.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:23:49 we're familiar with common lisp. 03:24:13 -!- rboyd [~rboyd@c-68-54-222-187.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: rboyd] 03:25:50 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:28:06 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:28:15 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:28:38 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:28:43 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:32:05 #lisp is the only channel I've been in that has so many people show up just to ask irrelevant questions 03:32:34 and yet, the most on-topic channel. 03:32:40 that too! 03:32:42 it's weird. 03:34:42 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:38:18 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-wkwphexgyytepzso] has joined #lisp 03:38:43 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:39:02 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 03:42:07 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:45:31 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-110.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping 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[~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:40:50 -!- Icon_ [~mzyo@ppp95-165-53-213.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:41:57 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@ip98-169-80-239.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:43:47 -!- gko [~gko@220.228.255.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:45:27 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 04:49:58 Kenjin_ [~josesanto@2.80.220.217] has joined #lisp 04:51:06 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 04:51:19 pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 04:52:53 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@c-76-23-252-81.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ynniv] 04:53:19 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-226-44.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:55:23 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:58:05 wubofeng_ [~quassel@116.236.252.170] has joined #lisp 04:59:28 saschakb__ [~saschakb@p4FEA0FEB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:00:17 -!- dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 05:01:05 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:02:29 teggi [~teggi@123.21.160.39] has joined #lisp 05:03:02 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0050.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:04:54 "He wasn't sure what was more troubling- the way the Application variable was being used, or the fact that C#, as a compiled language, doesn't have an eval statement." 05:04:59 *cough cough* 05:05:22 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:05:28 -!- Enoria [~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:06:47 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:13 Enoria [~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org] has joined #lisp 05:09:30 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-196-87.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:35 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-52-36.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:13:57 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@125.34.44.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:15:40 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:16:46 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:16:59 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-kkwicwvesaxzaafw] has joined #lisp 05:16:59 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-kkwicwvesaxzaafw] has quit [Changing host] 05:16:59 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:17:08 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:17:59 kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 05:19:19 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.70.206] has joined #lisp 05:20:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:21:27 do the branches on a case all get evaluated? 05:21:56 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:23:14 wildnux [~wildnux@pool-71-252-145-78.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:19 Kenjin_: that would be bad... only the first matching branch's forms are evaluated. 05:23:33 hi. is it possible to portably all conditions related to sockets (I'm using usocket)? sb-bsd-sockets:socket-error is being thrown on SBCL 05:23:45 portably handle 05:24:03 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:24:27 kmee: have you tried usocket? 05:24:39 I am using usocket 05:25:29 apart from that, I don't know. 05:26:56 maybe IOLib? 05:27:57 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:10 I'm actually using a library that uses usockets (drakma), so I can't just switch to IOLib 05:30:22 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 05:30:25 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:30:32 fe[nl]ix is the author of IOLib. he might be able to tell you if you can use both together for your purposes. 05:30:41 also there is #iolib i believe 05:30:57 i've never used it, so i don't know 05:31:20 I'm using drakma:http-request to fetch .html and images from a web page 05:31:22 -!- wubofeng_ [~quassel@116.236.252.170] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 05:31:36 wubofeng [~quassel@116.236.252.170] has joined #lisp 05:32:54 -!- pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:34:29 can't see how i could just switch to iolib unless i messed with drakma's internals 05:35:59 your expectation is correct. 05:36:16 drakma cannot take advantage of iolib. 05:36:55 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:37:15 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has left #lisp 05:38:35 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.23.124.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:40:11 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:41:53 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 05:45:14 chimeracoder [~chimeraco@c-24-91-19-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:59 Atrika [~Atrika@modemcable011.129-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:48:25 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48:45 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:18 fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:4d7b:357d:d3e3:2d3f] has joined #lisp 05:56:52 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:02:54 vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has joined #lisp 06:05:04 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:25 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 06:08:35 -!- bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:09:07 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:12:00 -!- saschakb__ [~saschakb@p4FEA0FEB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:14:39 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:14:47 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@1.155.209.165] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:15:47 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 06:15:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:17:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.77.125] has joined #lisp 06:17:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.77.125] has quit [Changing host] 06:17:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:18:50 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-30-87.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:31 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-196-87.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:22:06 -!- davlaps [~davlaps@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 06:24:48 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 06:25:24 -!- tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-30-87.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:27:51 -!- fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:4d7b:357d:d3e3:2d3f] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:29:05 dnm [~dnm@li97-254.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 06:35:33 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@65.92.153.91] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:38:51 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 06:39:48 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-110.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 06:43:30 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 06:43:45 kmee: usocket tries to convert all socket related errors to portable conditions 06:43:59 kmee: if you've found a case where this does not happen, it may be a bug. 06:46:55 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:50:02 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:50:02 -!- hkBst 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reset by peer] 07:21:02 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-brajvwigojoeumpn] has joined #lisp 07:21:08 Gus_ [~Gus@pool-71-251-116-70.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:23:43 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:23:50 s/#lisp// 07:24:32 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.143.157] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:24:42 -!- cle [~Gus@pool-71-251-116-70.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:30:16 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 07:30:43 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 07:33:00 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:35:02 LaosLos [~LaosLos@206.Red-80-25-161.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:50 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:36:33 -!- wildnux 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07:54:48 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-brajvwigojoeumpn] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:55:38 -!- Vicfred [~Futaba@189.228.38.201] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:56:57 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-taxeesdaikfynaub] has joined #lisp 07:56:58 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 08:06:43 -!- dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:08:21 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:10:31 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:14:21 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:15:52 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:21:15 fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:4d7b:357d:d3e3:2d3f] has joined #lisp 08:25:33 bas_ [~bas@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 08:26:44 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 08:27:15 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 08:28:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 08:28:57 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:29:12 CrLF0710` [~user@223.240.83.14] has joined #lisp 08:29:41 -!- bas_ [~bas@89.184.179.185] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:30:16 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 08:31:49 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:32:49 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-60-28.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:35:22 I know you guys love out of topic , but I got to post that ---> http://www.daniweb.com/software-development/legacy-and-other-languages/threads/408985 :D 08:35:28 its .... perfect 08:35:29 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:37:48 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:57 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-150-243.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:38:06 agumonkey [agumonkey@143.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:16 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:40:34 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-27.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:42:19 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:42:38 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:42:39 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.69] has joined #lisp 08:43:28 lakatos [~lakatos@c3.uaic.ro] has joined #lisp 08:45:27 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-ywarjmwiwetjgidr] has joined #lisp 08:45:39 drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has joined #lisp 08:46:33 kilon: Wait... Is that serious? 08:46:46 What the, I thought it was an early April Fools 08:47:15 bas_ [~bas@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 08:47:15 -!- bas_ is now known as Skola 08:47:22 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:48:57 -!- CrLF0710` [~user@223.240.83.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:49:00 well I found the name funny , but I have not investigated thoroughly to confirm how serious he is 08:50:07 what are you guys talking about? 08:51:32 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-taxeesdaikfynaub] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:54:11 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:06 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 08:57:37 lakatos, I know you guys love out of topic , but I got to post that ---> http://www.daniweb.com/software-development/legacy-and-other-languages/threads/408985 :D 08:57:37 its .... perfect 08:57:38 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-rngwlpsisfiweftv] has joined #lisp 08:59:15 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:59:44 this IS perfect :) 09:00:05 Ok, I needed that. 09:00:42 sbelmont [~user@114.205.86.94] has joined #lisp 09:00:47 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 09:00:53 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 09:00:57 hey guys, why don't you establish a channel robot that posts off topic links whenever a new person joins, just to keep the off topic discussions alive? 09:01:20 why, oh why the "end function" etc? unicode has such a lot of paired characters - (), [], {}, «», , etc, so it should be possible to have each construct use its own delimiters 09:02:13 flip215: Did you not notice that they had their own C-style {} delimiters as well as the "end ..."? 09:02:14 Yeah, we should stop going off-topic now 09:04:05 docAvid: perhaps a "function" is a method and has multiple signatures and code blocks? ... ie "function x (a) { ...} (b) { ...} ..."? 09:04:32 -!- k9quaint [~k9quaint@unaffiliated/k9quaint] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:05:37 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:05:50 msmith2 [~msmit297@adsl-184-36-178-215.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:06 stlifey_ [~stlifey@116.26.31.67] has joined #lisp 09:07:23 hello all, question; how do you use a function that takes key arguments in a macro? 09:07:43 msmith2: like any other function. you invoke it. 09:07:55 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.31.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:08:58 msmith2: key arguments are arguments just like others: 09:09:11 (mapcar (lambda (ktest) (find 1 '(1 2 3) ktest 'eql)) '(:test :test-not)) => (1 2) 09:09:19 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-zoffvxydxjuywfha] has joined #lisp 09:10:28 isn't there a paste bin like site associated with this channel? 09:10:35 paste.lisp.org 09:10:37 msmith2: paste.lisp.org 09:12:14 msmith2: the "post to channel" feature is broken. paste the url manually. 09:13:00 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 09:13:58 -!- blandest [~blandest@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:22:15 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:25:20 H4ns: Sgeo: pjb: http://paste.lisp.org/+2R0O 09:26:47 lhz [57e37c83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.227.124.131] has joined #lisp 09:27:36 msmith2: Don't you want to APPLY the function QUERY to the arglist you built? 09:27:41 msmith2: it is hard to come up with a good answer to your question. 09:28:08 msmith2: i think the problem is that s-sql uses a macro to turn your s-expression query into a string, at compile time. 09:28:22 msmith2: what you seem to want to do is build your query at run time, right? 09:28:30 right 09:28:57 I could just build a string but I didn't want to 09:29:07 but I may have to 09:29:08 *Sgeo* has a thought but it's a bad idea. 09:29:21 (Well, probably a bad idea) 09:30:00 Using the macroexpander function then evalling. Someone else will yell at me now. 09:30:12 I should sleep 09:30:17 msmith2: what i did was build up the s-sql expression and then use compile to compile it into a function 09:30:23 msmith2: that may work for you, too. 09:30:28 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@221.224.136.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:30:28 Sgeo: right. 09:30:52 Hi! In asdf, can I have my own function telling wheter to compile or not: (:file "target" :compile #'my-compilep) 09:31:07 msmith2: ah, no. there is something else that i came up with, hold on 09:31:35 msmith2: (pomo:sql-compile '(:select :* :from 'foo)) 09:32:14 msmith2: that is a smaller hammer than compiling a whole function, although it may not be sufficient in some cases when dao objects are involved. 09:33:15 H4ns: what is pomo? 09:33:44 msmith2: it is an package nickname for postmodern 09:33:53 msmith2: i.e. it will work for you 09:34:02 oh ok thanks. I'll give it a shot 09:34:24 Zzz 09:35:00 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:35:01 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 09:35:04 anyone uses asdf to find static runtime support files? I mean, is the :static field has any use other than documentation purpose? 09:36:46 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-rngwlpsisfiweftv] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:38:59 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@100.Red-88-11-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:43 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.70.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41:37 -!- agumonkey [agumonkey@143.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [] 09:43:57 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.94.1] 09:46:21 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-128-113.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 09:47:31 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 09:47:41 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.0.244] has joined #lisp 09:53:33 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-bztjslefxvvavxbt] has joined #lisp 09:59:12 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:01:37 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:02:14 good morning. 10:02:44 -!- ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Quit: brb] 10:03:06 moin. 10:03:29 ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 10:04:09 what's up? 10:05:39 mornin 10:05:45 *hefner* shrugs 10:05:50 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 10:05:59 *lakatos* resists going off-topic 10:06:07 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 10:12:57 -!- chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:13:19 -!- peccu1 is now known as PECCU 10:13:26 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.107.88] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:15:46 hefner: what's wrong? 10:16:22 nothing, just staring blankly at emacs trying to figure out what I'm trying to do 10:20:44 hefner: http://www.chrisconnollyonline.com/2009/02/72-is-partial-compendium-latvian-humor.html 10:22:01 silenius [~silenius@i59F71A2E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:24:57 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 10:26:18 -!- xinming [~hyy@113.206.7.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:27:15 maxm-: I don't know what's funnier about that page, the jokes or the English. or sadder 10:27:51 it's written in Borat english 10:28:04 no relation to latvian, whatsoever 10:28:46 asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:29:13 yeah, I can imagine 10:31:57 xinming [~hyy@113.205.8.92] has joined #lisp 10:34:34 -!- kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (Session timeout)] 10:34:54 -!- xinming [~hyy@113.205.8.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:48 kanru`: asdf can be used for that 10:39:49 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 10:40:00 http://xach.livejournal.com/294639.html 10:41:46 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:41:59 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 10:45:15 Xach: that's neat! thanks! 10:47:54 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:49:19 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:51:53 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:52:25 leo2007 [~leo@111.194.97.14] has joined #lisp 10:56:24 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:56:58 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 10:57:56 -!- stlifey_ [~stlifey@116.26.31.67] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 10:58:07 stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.31.67] has joined #lisp 11:00:15 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-5-203.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:00:31 -!- solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has quit [Quit: solussd] 11:00:40 solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has joined #lisp 11:05:17 -!- solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:05:50 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 11:08:52 hi 11:12:31 maxm-: actually they're very good: " But TOO LATE! Is already rape by soldier." :-) 11:12:44 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 11:15:01 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:16:02 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 11:16:54 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 11:17:00 xinming [~hyy@113.205.19.211] has joined #lisp 11:21:04 davlaps [~davlaps@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:55 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:23:08 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:24:14 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 11:24:18 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-wkwphexgyytepzso] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:25:14 -!- lhz [57e37c83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.227.124.131] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:29:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-76.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:30:54 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FEB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:37:03 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AC86.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:06 omg ! ROFL that page is epic :D 11:42:00 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.194.97.14] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.94.1] 11:42:36 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 11:43:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:49:56 nauar [~nauar@ip235200.bcn.altecom.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:47 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-239.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:52:44 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:54:28 Icon_ [~mzyo@ppp95-165-53-213.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 11:55:22 iwillig [~iwillig@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:05 solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has joined #lisp 11:58:15 dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has joined #lisp 11:59:03 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:50 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.8] has joined #lisp 12:01:07 pbgc [~pbgc@bl20-175-98.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 12:03:09 momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573a6c.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:05:03 has anyone tried out the heroku-cl buildpack? 12:05:52 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:06:04 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:07:18 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:50 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:08:18 i'm a bit lost with setting the config vars 12:09:34 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:10:30 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 12:14:05 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-49-125.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:14:16 momo-reina: I've seen a number of people report success 12:14:21 I haven't tried it myself 12:14:43 yeah it's a bit frustrating 12:15:01 doesn't help that i've never used heroku before, i've got like a dozen tabs open on how to deploy... 12:15:06 anway the error is this: 12:15:20 -----> ! Please set CL_IMPL: heroku config:add CL_IMPL={sbcl|ccl}. 12:15:21 ! Heroku push rejected, failed to compile Clframework app 12:15:21 12:15:32 but heroku config outputs: 12:15:47 CL_IMPL => {sbcl} 12:15:48 LANG => en_US.UTF-8 12:15:48 12:16:02 so not quite sure what i'm screwing up 12:19:06 momo-reina: have you looked at http://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/labs-user-env-compile ? 12:19:06 momo-reina: might be worth following up on comp.lang.lisp or creating an issue on the repo 12:19:21 momo-reina: I see you're using my fork 12:19:42 {sbcl} ? 12:19:52 right 12:19:58 momo-reina: loose the brackets 12:20:07 CL_IMPL=sbcl 12:20:21 Kenjin_: yep 12:20:40 Kenjin_: aha! i'm such a douche 12:20:45 Doubtful. 12:21:36 X-Scale` [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 12:22:10 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:23:06 well.. looks like that did it 12:23:16 had to add another config var though 12:23:25 WEBSERVER=hunchentoot 12:23:55 yeah. sorry about that. I'm still trying to figure out the best way to choose between implementations and webservers 12:24:10 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 12:24:13 some defaults would be appropriate I suppose 12:24:47 well i think this is great 12:25:02 was just thinking of how to deploy a lisp app and this came along today 12:26:10 momo-reina: sbcl and ccl with hunchentoot should work fine. I haven't put back support for aserve yet. 12:26:42 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:27:30 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:13 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: [ Close the World, Open the nExt ]] 12:29:27 kushal [~kdas@114.143.162.110] has joined #lisp 12:29:27 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.162.110] has quit [Changing host] 12:29:27 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:30:08 momo-reina: were you able to deploy successfully? 12:30:16 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:30:18 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-240-200-151.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:18 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-240-200-151.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:30:19 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 12:31:28 yep 12:31:50 worked perfectly after removing the brackets and adding in WEBSERVER 12:32:31 cool 12:33:32 thanks a lot, i'm still looking up hunchentoot documentation so i can't quite follow all of the code right now, but i'll put up a project i've been working on as soon as i have it all figured out 12:33:35 thanks again! 12:34:01 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FEB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:03 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 12:39:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:40:15 [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:40:16 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 12:40:16 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 12:43:33 -!- ejohnson [~elliott@vr.elliottjohnson.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:44:04 ejohnson [~elliott@vr.elliottjohnson.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:26 -!- momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573a6c.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:46:32 -!- lakatos [~lakatos@c3.uaic.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:48:38 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:52:05 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-thtvpmctexcmzscx] has joined #lisp 12:53:20 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:53:49 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:54:27 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:55:48 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:15 _schulte_ [~eschulte@ip98-169-80-239.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:18 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 12:58:24 It appears to me that long-running lisp processes have most of their stuff swapped out most of the time on machine with not so much memory. In that case, lisp memory usage doesn't matter that much anymore. The parts that are not used just stay on the disk 12:58:40 until the next big GC comes, of course 12:59:45 Yes, just like any other process, whatever the programming language. 12:59:46 ikki [~ikki@61-r9-r1m.bb.itelcel.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:53 Um. That line of reasoning assumed that the memory is not in use. 13:00:04 In which case, why have you allocated it? 13:01:11 Because I don't use the compiler in a webservice, for example 13:01:58 pjb: Sure. But an SBCL web server with hunchentoot etc. can allocate about 80MB. In the long run, about 10MB seem to stay in memory 13:02:00 Then you're talking about code rather than data, and GC is largely irrelevant. 13:02:31 Isn't there a purge or purify option to save-lisp-and-die? There's one in ccl. 13:02:49 Zhivago: That's true, I am. 13:03:57 I have installed SBCL in my home folder in subfolder "sbcl" and i get an error that it can find core files in "Program Files" , just checked env var SBCL_HOME it points to the correct folder 13:04:04 any idea what may be wrong 13:04:38 ? 13:05:42 I rare use windows so I am not very familiar with the whole thing but I would like to setup a lisp environment here (I mainly code in MACOS and sometimes in Linux ) for the obvious reasons 13:05:53 What I guess I want to say is: A lisp image for a webserver might look huge, even when there are no clients. But most of it will lie dormant in the swap anyway most of the time 13:05:59 kilon: the INSTALL file says: "If you need to install by hand, see "install.sh" for details." 13:06:40 pjb: i installed cygwin as you advised but it seems the home folder of cygwin is diffirent from the home folder of windows 13:06:59 actually windows has no home folder, its users/user_name 13:07:10 kilon: SBCL isn't a cygwin program. 13:07:13 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 13:07:14 kilon: indeed. It's /home/kilon :-) 13:07:18 KDr2 [~kdr2@114.243.237.100] has joined #lisp 13:08:04 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:29 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:08:52 pkhuong: where did i say it is ? 13:09:56 pjb: ah ok found it cygwin/home 13:10:23 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:38 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 13:12:38 kilon: however, sbcl is not a cygwin package. Difficulties ensue. You can call a MS-Windows program from cygwin, but I don't know how well or if at all cygwin maps unix environment variables to MS-Windows environment variables. 13:12:43 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:12:57 hmmm 13:13:04 kilon: you couold try to compile sbcl in cygwin with clisp (which is a cygwin package). 13:13:05 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:32 then I need to find out how to cd to a folder with a name containing a space , and put sbcl to program files 13:13:50 as it expects to 13:13:53 geek [~geek@unaffiliated/geek] has joined #lisp 13:13:56 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:14:27 kilon: in bash (ie. cygwin) it's easy: cd 'Program Files' 13:14:40 -!- geek is now known as killown 13:14:52 oh that did not cross my mind, thanks pjb 13:14:56 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 13:15:04 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/geek] has quit [Changing host] 13:15:04 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 13:15:21 kilon: once you've moved it there, you can write a /usr/local/bin/sbcl script to exec '/cygdrive/c/Program Files/sbcl/sbcl' "$@" 13:15:29 hi 13:15:56 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-150-243.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16:30 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-39-4.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:16:31 Hi! 13:16:47 damn 13:16:52 same complain 13:17:09 Read the INSTALL and install.sh files. 13:17:16 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-150-243.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:17:21 fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 4820: can't find core file at C:Program Files (x86)/sbcl/lib/sbcl//sbcl.core 13:17:26 ok will do 13:17:36 dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:43 I vaguely remember the binary installer on sbcl.org setting all that up correctly. 13:18:29 -!- ikki [~ikki@61-r9-r1m.bb.itelcel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:18:56 pjb: wher is that file ? 13:19:40 i got sbcl.exe and sbcl.core and then i bunch of subfolder starting with "sb-" 13:20:02 In my tarballs I get an INSTALL and install.sh files. 13:20:12 But then again, I'm on linux 13:20:14 kilon: pjb is probably not a good person to ask for windows help or sbcl help. 13:20:23 kilon: i recommend listening to pkhuong. 13:20:34 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 13:20:45 I also have had good luck with the "friendly fork" binary installer. 13:20:50 Xach: already done what pkhuong recommend 13:20:58 i think i did 13:21:36 pkhuong: i clicked in the download for window 13:21:58 I'm in LW 6.2. I have a somewhat-large defun. Somewhere deep down inside, an error is triggered. The backtrace in Slime shows only a few steps after the call to somewhat-large-defun. What do I want to change in order to produce or see a more detailed stack? 13:22:19 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:22:45 I would try: (declaim (optimize (debug 3) (speed 0) (space 0) (safety 3))) 13:23:03 http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html 13:23:39 Xach: googling that 13:23:49 I am on windows 7 by the way 13:24:26 kilon: no need to google 13:24:39 kilon: it is on the front page of www.sbcl.org 13:24:49 And on the download page 13:24:51 look for "windows fork" 13:25:36 saw it, thanks 13:26:13 dotemacs [u801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qnifieknrvjvsicg] has joined #lisp 13:26:53 AFAICT, the official binary installer on windows should set the environment up correctly. I suppose it might be a win7 thing. 13:28:23 Xach: it worked, thank you very much :) 13:28:39 pkhuong: it does , the evn var is not to blame here 13:29:32 "Can't find core file" is an environment var issue. 13:29:35 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-bztjslefxvvavxbt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:31:16 ikki [~ikki@68-r9-r1m.bb.itelcel.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:33 Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:04 -!- Icon_ [~mzyo@ppp95-165-53-213.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:33:59 Sbidicuda [~antani@host249-171-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:34:59 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 13:36:31 Xach: any news on this https://github.com/mtravers/wuwei/issues/10 ? 13:36:39 -!- ikki [~ikki@68-r9-r1m.bb.itelcel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:36:40 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has quit [Client Quit] 13:38:57 Kenjin_: hmm, I don't know. I'll check in a while. 13:39:07 Xach: thanks 13:39:17 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:39:27 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:39:41 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 13:39:53 Hi, just came across this wonderful article about using lisp for web dev: http://msnyder.info/posts/2011/07/lisp-for-the-web-part-ii/ any of you guys doing this yourselves and how do you find it? Thanks 13:40:18 Vutral [vutral@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 13:40:36 he i am looking for this addon for clisp to install stuff 13:40:48 what was it called ? simplelisp or so 13:41:05 Vutral: quicklisp 13:41:14 yeah 13:41:16 quicklisp 13:41:40 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 13:41:46 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:41:58 wb osa1 13:42:11 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 13:42:24 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-egtwtvljqhrsrxxx] has joined #lisp 13:42:46 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:44:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:44:28 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:45:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:47:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:49:02 -!- solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has quit [Quit: solussd] 13:49:30 ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.92] has joined #lisp 13:49:30 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:49:41 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:50:14 mgodshall [~quassel@76.161.200.249] has joined #lisp 13:50:59 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:22 chimeracoder [~chimeraco@c-24-91-19-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:05 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:08 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@r186-52-186-165.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:53:16 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:55:35 pkhuong: then why the fork works ? 13:59:47 -!- dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:00:10 dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:12 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:01:36 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-150-243.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:57 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-150-243.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:06:41 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 14:09:14 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@176.97.27.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:09:23 Hi all. Simple question: Franz's Express Edition is still heap-limited, right? Their page(s) on it don't seem to make any explicit mention of that (that I can find) any more. 14:10:54 iwillig [iwillig@nat/openplans.org/x-mcmduxsgqdxiokau] has joined #lisp 14:10:56 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 14:10:59 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:11:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:11:45 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: new kernel] 14:12:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:12:56 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 14:14:08 *Xach* hasn't tried it lately, sorry 14:14:09 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:14:45 dnm: In my experience, Franz are very responsive to requests for less-limited evaluation licenses 14:15:14 So even if the Express Edition still has some restriction, you could explain your needs and possibly get a better deal if you start a discussion. 14:15:48 -!- fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:4d7b:357d:d3e3:2d3f] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:15:51 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 14:16:34 Xach: No worries. And yep, that's been my experience too. In the past when I've talked with them, they've been very accommodating. 14:17:20 Xach: how responsive are they about licensing a useful Franz version to people who only plan on using it for porting/maintaining open source libraries? 14:17:25 At the moment, I'm not doing anything than hacking for fun in CL, so I can't really justify spending money, and I primarily write things against CCL these days, but I'd like to test to make sure things work in ACL and LW. 14:17:57 sykopomp: They didn't blink when I asked about it. 14:18:13 sure, but you're famous. 14:18:22 This was before I was famous(er)! 14:18:41 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:18:54 *Xach* wishes he could get by on spending $0 for his just-for-fun photography habit 14:19:06 urandom__ [~user@p548A3ED5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:45 hefner: I'm not famous at all, and they cut me a deal on a personal use copy of Enterprise Edition back in 2004 just via talking with them in email (and meeting them in their offices in Oakland once, but I happened to be local at the time). 14:20:09 You're famous! I love your Lisp blog! 14:20:10 you must be famous, you have a three letter nick. 14:20:21 rme [~rme@50.43.184.114] has joined #lisp 14:20:42 John (lemonodor) and I are competing now for who can write the least about Lisp for the longest. I think he's still besting me. 14:20:42 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:21:15 You know Mr. Wiseman? You must be famous, too! 14:21:33 chr: A hah, a three letter nick! No, *you're* famous! 14:21:45 -!- asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:14 dnm: "mediochre" was taken. 14:23:05 lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:39 Xach: Wouldn't it make sense if LW or Franz worked with you to make sure QL works properly there? 14:25:21 I feel pretty confident in saying Franz definitely sees the value of QL and wants it to work on ACL. I don't know anyone at LW, but I doubt they'd feel differently. 14:26:44 Xach: Speaking of, besides QL, what are you up to these days? 14:27:56 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:28:22 -!- xinming [~hyy@113.205.19.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:29:17 kushal [~kdas@114.143.162.110] has joined #lisp 14:29:18 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.162.110] has quit [Changing host] 14:29:18 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:29:46 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:30:12 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F71A2E.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:02 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-39-4.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:34 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-39-4.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:32:47 agam [~agam@216.239.45.16] has joined #lisp 14:34:37 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:35:46 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-39-4.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:37:18 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:50 agam_ [agam@nat/google/x-jvzrngbjltknprxw] has joined #lisp 14:38:14 -!- agam [~agam@216.239.45.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:40:36 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:41:47 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:43:12 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Client Quit] 14:43:50 -!- msmith2 [~msmit297@adsl-184-36-178-215.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:43:57 nialo-_r [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:13 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-150-243.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:44:41 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:44:56 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:45:01 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:45:59 -!- Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:46:34 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 14:48:59 dnm: trying to get an all-singing, all-dancing Amazon Web Service library going 14:49:54 Xach: Ooh, color me interested. 14:51:14 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:51:21 I'm hung up on XML processing & synthesis 14:51:36 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-143-157.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:39 I want something nice and lispy, something that makes it easy to whip up support for new services. 14:53:58 loke: LispWorks and Franz have both granted me gratis licenses for just that purpose 14:54:04 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-thtvpmctexcmzscx] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:54:52 Xach: nice 14:56:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:56:49 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:57:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:58:14 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:58:46 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 14:59:10 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:59:21 xinming [~hyy@113.205.19.211] has joined #lisp 15:01:09 Hmm... Am I not supposed to be able to use INVOKE-RESTART from within a HANDLER-CASE? I get an error saying there is no available restart, but if I use HANDLER-BIND instead, it works. 15:01:29 loke: handler case works after stack is unwound 15:01:34 that. 15:01:38 loke: handler-bind works before stack is unwound 15:01:40 maxm-: Thanks 15:03:12 OK, that means my conditions and restarts works correctly now. Hopefully. 15:03:49 Xach: CLXML not doing it? 15:04:38 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:04:49 Now, I find conditions to be quite ugly in Lisp. Not the functionality, but the code needed to implement restarts... Is this really the "best" way to do it? 15:04:49 http://code.google.com/p/cl-gdata/source/browse/src/misc.lisp#76 15:04:59 dnm: What is CLXML? 15:05:20 loke: wrap a new macro! 15:05:28 pjb: :-) of course 15:05:50 pjb: I just haven't done it enough to know if I'm doing it right. I'd like to make sure my macro generates "proper" code. 15:09:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:10:31 k9quaint [~k9quaint@c-50-131-165-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:37 -!- k9quaint [~k9quaint@c-50-131-165-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:10:37 k9quaint [~k9quaint@unaffiliated/k9quaint] has joined #lisp 15:11:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:11:50 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-143-157.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:14:46 wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has joined #lisp 15:14:54 Xach: I found this post from a few years back from you: http://xach.livejournal.com/217003.html 15:15:28 Xach: you mention there that you were using Lisp to talk to the Google API's. Do you have anything that would benefit me?\ 15:16:33 loke: https://github.com/xach/grout and https://github.com/xach/firehose are all i have. not much to speak of 15:16:52 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@r186-52-186-165.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:17:46 Xach: Cool. Thanks 15:18:02 Xach: very specific code for your use-case 15:19:01 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:19:23 yes 15:20:12 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:36 -!- Skola [~bas@89.184.179.185] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:22:33 -!- benny [~benny@i577A21F6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:23:46 *loke* reads some comp.lang.wj^H^H^H.lisp 15:23:59 bas_ [~bas@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 15:24:22 -!- bas_ is now known as Skola 15:24:28 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-63.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:24:53 benny [~benny@i577A2991.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:25:09 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:25:54 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 15:29:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:29:37 Xach: CLXML was the last CL XML library I recall using. A long time ago now. Having trouble finding it... 15:30:01 Kron [~Kron@129-97-124-63.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:30:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:30:26 Xach: Around the same time, back then, I was also futzing with XMLisp... http://www.agentsheets.com/lisp/XMLisp/ 15:31:00 dnm: I have been using CXML for low-level stuff but I want something a little more tuned to the task 15:31:12 Amazon's XML is very simple, in general 15:31:16 Xach: Doesn't sound like XMLisp is what you want though, it's kind of a tight MOP/CLOS-XML integration 15:31:25 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.92] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:31:28 ngz [~user@22.220.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:54 I'd like to write the specification of a response in a s-exp and use that specification to process a response into a data structure with lispy accessors. I think. 15:32:04 Something relaxng-ish perhaps 15:32:19 *Xach* needs to sit down and JFDI and see where the rough edges are 15:32:19 I'm somewhat surprised no one's ported Oleg's SXML to CL... maybe someone has and I haven't seen it. 15:32:53 dnm: there is s-xml, but that might be something different? 15:32:57 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-63.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:33:09 it is 15:33:44 loke: Yeah, that looks like it. 15:34:17 loke: Uses an API based on SSAX, one of Oleg's gems. 15:34:32 I really enjoy using CXML with Xpath. It almost makes XML painless 15:35:05 It's much nicer than using xpath with Java 15:35:27 I'm using xpath on another project, so I might give that a whirl for the amazon stuff. 15:36:20 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:34 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 15:36:39 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 15:38:00 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:40:04 phadthai: https://github.com/sionescu/iolib/commit/6a57c02278c19ce626b371507a34387c738fd791 15:41:09 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 15:41:39 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.15] has joined #lisp 15:41:52 dekuked` [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:11 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@r186-52-186-165.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:42:43 Kenjin_: wuwei-examples doesn't currently fail like it did but i'm not sure if the acl-compat thing has been updated 15:43:09 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@114.243.237.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:11 Xach: I don't think it has. Thanks for looking into it 15:43:32 Xach: its preventing me from running AllegroServe with Sbcl 15:44:21 -!- dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:58 Kenjin_: which version of sbcl? 15:45:13 10.0.54 15:45:20 ups 1.0.54 :p 15:47:08 In the aserve version Mike Travers is using in the build pack it seems to be unchanged 15:47:18 https://github.com/mtravers/portableaserve/blob/master/acl-compat/sbcl/acl-mp.lisp#L273 and below 15:48:07 kevin said he'd apply (but not test) patches 15:48:08 I got SBCL and CCL working with Hunchentoot and CCL with AllegroServe. 15:49:53 Xach, do you know about flexml? 15:49:58 adeht: no 15:50:14 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120310173008]] 15:50:42 Xach, http://common-lisp.net/project/fetter/darcs/verrazano/src/flexml.lisp 15:50:56 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:51:15 though I think there's a newer version in cl-l10n 15:51:40 adeht: have you used it? 15:52:04 Xach, just a few snippets, nothing serious 15:52:07 regarding licensing and Franz: I can say that they are *very* accommodating. I got a long (half-year practically) evaluation license for ACL Enterprise just for a student project 15:52:16 (possibly extended) 15:52:26 Xach, should talk to attila 15:53:12 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:00 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-409974.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:55:31 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-63.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:55:41 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:58:45 -!- davlaps [~davlaps@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:58:47 -!- Kron [~Kron@129-97-124-63.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:03:52 *maxm-* had run a test of cxml, s-xml, clxml etc on a huge real life data file, but forgot by now which one came out on top 16:04:00 but it was order of magnituted difference 16:04:40 maxm-: now that was helpful! :) 16:04:44 think other two parsers run out of memory or never even finished loading (it was around 3 gig xml file of a schedule of airline crew assignments for 3 months, with real schema, etc) 16:05:17 I just remember that one of them is basically "the thing" and other 2 sucks.. it was 3 years or so ago 16:05:29 CXML is "the thing" 16:06:08 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:06:23 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 16:06:31 ah cool, I'm gonna remember it this time thanks to orgmode 16:06:54 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@100.Red-88-11-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 16:07:02 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@100.Red-88-11-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:07 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3ED5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:23 -!- iwillig [iwillig@nat/openplans.org/x-mcmduxsgqdxiokau] has left #lisp 16:07:38 What are good tools to do profiling (run-time is most interesting right now) of CL code? I have Allegro and SBCL available ATM 16:07:56 (Something I can visualise with kcachegrind would be pretty awesome) 16:08:02 arnsholt: sb-sprof. 16:08:11 *hefner* likes sb-sprof too 16:08:33 arnsholt: if you're using slime, you can use slime-sprof for a nice interface to sb-sprof. 16:08:58 arnsholt: allegro cl's profiler is described in the documentation. 16:09:08 arnsholt: and kcachegrind is a no. 16:10:13 Thanks! I suspected that kcachegrind would be out, but you don't know 'till you ask 16:10:40 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 16:11:05 And I'll look definitely try slime-sprof. It sounds nifty 16:11:53 *hefner* finds bare sb-sprof perfectly usable without the slime goodies 16:12:05 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@r186-52-186-165.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:25 *maxm-* confirms sb-sprof is very useful indeed 16:12:33 hefner: slime-sprof is easier to browse than the massive call graph data that sb-sprof spits out. 16:12:53 for me, at least. 16:13:15 you get the simple table summary by default, but you can expand each row to see callers and callees 16:13:34 *H4ns* likes the deterministic profiler, too. M-x slime-profile and friends. 16:13:37 I'm partial to graphical presentations, I have to admit. But collapsing and such sounds nice 16:13:39 one tip about sb-sprof for clos heavy code, if you like 50% of time spent in sb-pcl:something arg0, thats the CLOS object slot access 16:13:45 time to switch to structures then 16:14:24 There's no CLOS in my code, so it shouldn't turn up, but good to know 16:14:26 or local variables for temporary storage. 16:15:27 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129151039.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 16:16:01 could non-clos stuff generate these sb-pcl things? I don't remember exactly now, but i thought i traced it exactly to slot accessors 16:16:25 what is 'non-clos'? 16:16:42 iwillig [iwillig@nat/openplans.org/x-fhjmuezbrsgerfad] has joined #lisp 16:16:55 in anycase thats not complaint against CLOS, sbcl clos is very fast, and only gives around 20-30% pentalty comparing to structures.. Just given then info, coz I thought it useful in the content of discussing sb-sprof 16:17:55 sykopomp: "local variables or temporary storage". 16:18:51 maxm-: I mean that you're probably using CLOS even if your specific code doesn't define genfuns or classes. 16:19:54 -!- Skola [~bas@89.184.179.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:20:36 -!- iwillig [iwillig@nat/openplans.org/x-fhjmuezbrsgerfad] has left #lisp 16:22:46 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 16:23:12 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 16:23:24 -!- Gus_ [~Gus@pool-71-251-116-70.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:24:03 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:16 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:24:53 funkwarrior [~funkwarri@host114-213-static.46-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:25:28 Hello, somebody's here? 16:25:37 Yes. 16:25:40 no 16:25:43 maybe 16:25:46 Bots away, we had to replace them. 16:26:56 -!- drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has quit [Quit: bbl] 16:26:56 ah ok..I only seen it on doing numerical computation, I made an example: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128337 16:27:36 -!- nauar [~nauar@ip235200.bcn.altecom.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:27:44 wrote my defseries thing after noticing 80% of simulation time was spent there 16:28:13 but numerical stuff is very special case 16:28:21 I wondering what is the best solution for this worklow: An user enter some values in a webform on website and, as the client want, the resulting txt sent ( I don't know how) to the internal server where there's autocad that process the txt with lisp: after resend the resulting pdf on the webpage. 16:28:35 (sorry for the previous lame question.. :D ) 16:28:48 maxm-: you know about slot-value, right? 16:28:50 funkwarrior: this channel is about common lisp, not autolisp 16:28:59 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@r186-52-152-115.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:29:04 sykopomp: with-slots just macrolets into slot-value 16:29:09 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-egtwtvljqhrsrxxx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:10 unless I'm an idiot 16:29:20 oh, sorry... lisp and autocad are not my business.. sorry to bother 16:29:28 have a nice day 16:29:30 maxm-: with-slots uses symbol-macrolet 16:29:40 maxm-/sykopomp: with most implementations, accessor functions are faster than slot-value 16:29:43 someone knows a minimalistic lisp implementation for embedded ? 16:29:43 funkwarrior: perhaps you could try to make a CL compatibility package in autolisp, and load hunchentoot in autolisp, so that you can directly write the web server on autocad? 16:29:53 pjb: right 16:29:59 funkwarrior: otherwise complain to your vendor that autolisp is not Common Lisp. 16:30:00 H4ns: Most? I thought that was only in SBCL. 16:30:00 funkwarrior: or call autocad from a small server written in ? 16:30:13 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:30:25 Vutral: depending on where you want to embed it. 16:30:27 *maxm-* remember trying with both, I think on sbcl it takes simular hit, lemme quickly test since I have that example in slime-scratch 16:31:01 sykopomp: i think ccl and acl have similar optimizations 16:31:31 sykopomp: "think" as in "have a remembrance to have read it in the documentation:" 16:31:32 Vutral: for small memory footprints, scheme could be better. For very small, you could just write a lap assembler in any CL implementation (cf Crash Bandicoot GOOL). 16:31:53 pjb: p_l : thanks for the suggestions 16:32:02 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 16:32:08 -!- ngz [~user@22.220.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:32:17 Vutral: but if your embeded means 16 MB+ 32-bit processor, then clisp or ecl or any other CL implementation can be considered. 16:32:18 this is really not my business and I'm feelin a bit lost 16:32:22 accessor 4.9 sec, with-slots 3.7 seconds here 16:32:35 lemme try with speed 3 16:32:41 thanks again and have a nice day 16:32:51 pjb: ic 16:33:02 funkwarrior: can you write a server in autolisp? Are there functions similar to listen(2) and accept(2) ? 16:33:16 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 16:33:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:33 pjb: I really don't know.. 16:33:35 Oh man, AutoLisp. 16:33:39 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 16:33:49 Vutral: notice that a lap assembler is a good thing: it's sexp based, therefore you can write macros, therefore you soon get a language close to CL, a subset of CL. 16:34:18 funkwarrior: well, more learning is in order. I don't know where you learn autolisp stuff. For CL stuff, go to http://cliki.net/ 16:34:30 Fare [~Fare@74.125.59.116] has joined #lisp 16:34:30 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:34:33 with speed 3 accessor is indeed faster, other way around 16:37:04 yhanks for suggestions pjb, really appreciate 16:37:08 replacing defclass with defstruct, 2.3 sec 16:37:09 *thanks 16:37:24 *maxm-* pretty much just wasted 10 minutes to re-confirm what he already knew 16:37:35 -!- funkwarrior [~funkwarri@host114-213-static.46-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: funkwarrior] 16:39:55 jewel [~jewel@c-76-102-3-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:32 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:08 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 16:46:49 tensorpudding [~michael@99.23.124.235] has joined #lisp 16:48:50 Is there a better way to represent "split this list into two lists based upon a predicate" other than remove-if followed by remove-if-not 16:49:17 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-150-243.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:49:32 (loop for item in list if (predicate item) collect item into a else collect item into b finally (return (values a b))) 16:49:37 jasom: Write your own using mapcar 16:49:53 You'd need reduce. 16:49:53 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:57 pjb: yeah I thought about that too 16:50:00 (to make it functionnaly). 16:50:08 pjb: Not with closures :) 16:50:10 ahhh 16:50:25 that you also want reverse 16:50:38 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 16:52:43 #lisp: "How do I accomplish a useful thing" usually gets crickets or 1 response, but splitting list in two, oh man, do we have solutions for you! 16:52:57 not that there anything wrong with that, but people get excited over wrong things :-) 16:53:11 or differing ideas on the definition of "useful thing" 16:54:42 ^ 16:56:02 Neronus: why do you want reverse?... 16:56:47 (let (a b) (mapc (lambda (x) (if (predicate x) (push x a) (push x b))) list) (values (nreverse a) (nreverse b))) 16:58:42 sometimes i got the impression everything beside list processing is complicated in lisp 16:58:57 not at all 17:00:15 Sometimes I wonder where anyone gets that impression. 17:00:19 list processing can get pretty complicated, given you can use them to represent graphs 17:00:58 sykopomp: from not using MOP, perhaps ;) 17:01:30 I don't use the MOP :( 17:03:21 should use mop, unless you doing very low level things 17:04:12 *maxm-* does not consider himself a lisp newb, but SBCL compiler internals are difficult to parse for me, (I will get it but will need a week or so "total immersion" period) 17:04:15 I use CLOS heavily, but I don't find very much use for the MOP :\ 17:04:38 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.160.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:04:39 I understand that its a legacy thing, coz it was written probably before CLOS became stable 17:04:44 Sometimes you want to get the list of slots. MOP comes handy for that. 17:05:09 mop has some useful query stuff but i haven't used the more interesting bits myself sadly .. i think the biggest issue is the documentation is poor and there aren't many examples 17:05:24 but imagine, if it was done using CLOS. Using an object model, facotries, clear protocols for the IR translation and optimization things 17:05:38 would be much easier for wider audience to hack on it IMHO 17:06:20 ah, I guess I use the MOP indirectly when I use the slime inspector, yes. :) 17:06:25 but I tend to consider "gimme all the slots" to be serious code smell. 17:06:42 INSPECT ALL THE SLOTS! 17:06:47 : there is no package with name "UNIX" 17:06:49 oh, I do have some code I've been working on that'll eventually use the MOP for automated testing. 17:06:49 dooh 17:06:51 sykopomp: why? thats the strength of lisp. . You want to write tools that help you write tools that do stuff. 17:07:05 java does it half-assedly with reflection 17:07:16 maxm-: sometimes there's better ways to do things than through the MOP... 17:07:23 sykopomp: depends, i'm not sure how it's code smell if you're writing visualization tools .. i'm not sure what you would otherwise use it for though 17:07:38 oGMo: yeah, I can see that use-case, too. 17:07:40 or at least, use it for well 17:07:45 its amazing to do C-c C-c of a CLOS object inherting Qt thing, and having the window you already have on the screen, suddenly have overriden new virtual function 17:07:59 -!- Kenjin_ [~josesanto@2.80.220.217] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:08:15 I can also see the MOP being useful for writing things like ORMs 17:08:28 java reflection or c# don't even come close 17:08:30 sykopomp: blasphemy. 17:08:47 hefner: ! 17:08:54 ngz [~user@22.220.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:21 hefner: or or.. or things like rucksack! :S 17:09:37 well, sure, that. 17:09:41 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:10:03 when you've buried your data behind a wall of impenetrable magic CLOS bullshit, you need even more and unportable magic bullshit to get it back. 17:10:09 any large non-CLOS codebase, eventually will degenerate into lots of kludgy macros writing macros calling helpers, hard for outsiders to get into. CLOS brings some order to that, and while you can't get rid of custom macros completely, if they do their work by clearly defined CLOS protocols, its much easier to hack on 17:10:34 maxm-: um no 17:10:47 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:10:53 hefner: in the case of postmodern, I have a thin ORM-ish layer over my code that exists for the sole purpose of table definition and updating. 17:11:00 but if you're going to use CLOS and don't mind the smell, the MOP can be useful :) 17:11:35 I do find it useful to use ORM objects to insert data and manage tables, though. 17:12:52 well different strokes and such.. /me finds CLOS, and some judicial use of MOP (ie don't go crazy defining custom metaclasses for everything) really useful 17:13:20 i really like CLOS, but if you can't write good code without it, you can't write good code with it 17:13:22 BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.9.105] has joined #lisp 17:13:22 -!- BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.9.105] has quit [Client Quit] 17:13:38 BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.9.105] has joined #lisp 17:13:51 teggi [~teggi@123.20.52.161] has joined #lisp 17:14:13 oGMo that argument leads to "kids these days" type argument. Progress is made by doing things easier way, by standing on the shoulders of the level before.. 17:14:34 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:14:40 maxm-: but not being ignorant thereof 17:14:42 "if you can't write good code in assembler, you will never be a good programmer" 17:15:07 sounds reasonable to me. 17:15:33 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.0.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:15:38 Indeed. Still think that every programmers should learn some assembler and write a small application in it. 17:15:42 ie. debug it. 17:15:45 I'd amend that to "great programmer" 17:16:16 not everyone aspires to be great at something 17:16:35 should be at least capable of reading simple assembly and understand how computer works, though 17:16:39 dlowe: why should we maintain code written by those people then? 17:17:03 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 17:17:04 pjb: the need for code outstrips the number of great programmers to write it 17:17:17 dlowe: I'm not sure. 17:17:19 *maxm-* kind of agrees, but knowing assembler, you still going to write stuff in higher level language. Same with CLOS / mop. Yes I can write same thing by just using lists, macros, (def-my-own-stuff) that stores metadata in *whatever*.. But why bother, when with CLOS and (class-slots) its all done for you 17:17:34 if we didn't lose time writing dumb code, there'd be more time to write smarter code. 17:17:46 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.32.60.20] has joined #lisp 17:17:59 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 17:18:11 If the great programmers spent their time having to write dumb code, they'd never be able to get around to the smart code 17:18:24 Exactly my point. 17:18:43 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FEB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:19:49 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.23.124.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:20:04 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FEB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:18 pjb: why should we maintain lesser code? because dumb code is necessary for things to function, and you can create extremely hard problems, even with dumb code 17:20:46 Speaking of problems, who is hyped for the April boston lisp meeting? 17:20:51 This guy! 17:20:59 I would be if I knew anything about it 17:21:16 Anyone here planning to attend the next ILC? 17:21:22 Fare is glooking for a venue I believe 17:21:30 I intend to speak if he finds one! 17:21:57 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 17:22:30 I liked the CBC, except for the noise 17:22:32 *sykopomp* is stuck in Florida. Misses the days when he could just drive over to Cambridge. 17:22:35 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.83.224] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:54 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.152] has joined #lisp 17:23:18 dlowe: I think he's looking for a "real" room 17:23:27 any of you guys in London, UK? 17:23:28 somewhere I can stand up and show some slides maybe 17:23:48 sykopomp: take amtrak to boston 17:23:55 I liked the auditorium in the Stata building the ILC talks were held in 17:24:02 ouch, long train ride. 17:24:05 Xach: cheaper to fly :p 17:24:20 it would be quite a train ride indeed... :( 17:24:36 Sure, sure, but that's half the point. 17:25:23 think of all the hacking you could get done in 24 hours on a train with power and free wifi 17:25:51 ouch, 35 hours. 17:25:57 I would take the train everywhere if only it weren't so expensive :/ 17:26:45 heh. It's *marginally* cheaper to fly. 17:26:52 does cut 30 hours from the trip, though! :) 17:27:25 *sykopomp* misses BLM and TCLispers :( 17:28:35 SunLisp is just as good if not better 17:28:42 Or so I've heard 17:28:45 bahah 17:28:50 dammit, people. If you're going to signal a condition in your library, export the damn condition name 17:28:53 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:28:53 hell no 17:29:12 SunLisp is more about the Sun than Lisp. 17:29:30 s/Sun/drunks and braggarts/ 17:30:31 we just have drunks and curmudgeons here 17:30:33 sykopomp: at least the filthy venue is closed and it moved to something more decent :) 17:30:58 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 17:31:07 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-ywarjmwiwetjgidr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:40 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:55 dlowe: I mainly remember how intimidating BLM was. 17:33:08 who was intimidating? 17:33:11 I'd love to go to BLM some day. 17:34:11 rme: he's probably talking about me :( 17:36:32 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:37:02 sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 17:37:47 rme: there's a lot of very smart, talented people there. 17:40:12 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:43:09 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.233] has joined #lisp 17:44:12 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl6-189-93.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 17:44:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.50.35] has joined #lisp 17:44:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.50.35] has quit [Changing host] 17:44:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:46:11 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:46:26 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:50:26 no, definitely not me, then. I thought he was talking about people with bushy eyebrows 17:50:30 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 17:53:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:54:01 dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:19 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:56:18 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF70CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 17:56:34 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-63.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:57:43 otwierac1 [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 17:57:54 -!- otwierac1 [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Client Quit] 17:58:29 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:53 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-396563.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:59:17 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-dktfsgnoskeqnojn] has joined #lisp 17:59:36 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-396563.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Client Quit] 18:01:23 kilon_ [~kilon@athedsl-397038.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:01:25 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-409974.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:01:26 LaosLos [~LaosLos@37.Red-79-148-252.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:51 -!- kilon_ is now known as kilon 18:02:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-150-243.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:03:47 -!- LaosLos [~LaosLos@37.Red-79-148-252.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:04:55 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:05:08 I get over my fear of public Lisp speaking by imagining everyone has no eyebrows at all. 18:05:27 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 18:05:32 that seems creepy at best 18:05:45 what about imagining that everybody is an order of magnitude more eyebrow 18:06:03 I'll try that next. 18:06:04 I find that preferable to being imagined any other way 18:06:07 -!- dekuked` [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has left #lisp 18:06:12 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:07:27 I get over my fear of public speaking by not speaking in public 18:08:00 -!- sunmix [~user@223.205.246.98] has left #lisp 18:08:07 :D 18:08:15 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:08:16 I find that if you care are sufficiently excited about the material you'r 18:08:37 you're presenting, and have your presentation planned out, you can usually get by fine 18:08:45 not that I'm particularly experienced 18:11:59 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.52.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:51 and practice it for real in front of at least 1 other person if you've never done it before 18:18:54 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-zoffvxydxjuywfha] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:19:49 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:20:41 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-150-243.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:21:06 -!- sacho_ is now known as sacho 18:22:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:24:24 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24:36 blackswan [~budam@159.63.137.53] has joined #lisp 18:25:28 sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 18:25:49 clos question: should it be safe to call change-class from the initialize-instance method, in order to get make-instance return an object of a different class than that requested? 18:26:31 blackswan: My understanding (not backed up by chapter & verse reference close at hand yet) is that is not allowed 18:26:48 » The generic function make-instance creates and returns a new instance of the given class. 18:27:31 imho totally valid to use :around, I think I used it in a few places 18:27:50 ie (change-class 'new-class (call-next-method) :extra-arg blah) 18:28:28 mmmm. Delicious code smell. 18:28:59 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.2.203] has joined #lisp 18:30:01 i'm after a sort of (make-instance 'rectangle :height 20 :width 20) returning a square instead... but square not being a subclass of rectangle 18:30:07 blackswan: also if you look into https://github.com/7max/cl-maxlib tehre is a helper utility there, for dynamically creating mixins, (with hashing, so it preserves all SBCL high performance make-instance optimizations) 18:30:35 blackswan: so you can do stuff like (add-class-to-object instance 'extra-class-a) 18:31:01 hm. 18:31:07 *maxm-* uses it to add various kind of statistics to simulations 18:31:23 blackswan: I think if you wanted to do something like that, you might be better off adding an intermediary that has a new protocol, e.g. make-shape. 18:31:47 would anyone be interested in a debian/ubuntu apt repository that always had latest sbcl? 18:31:50 you're probably right 18:31:58 dlowe: very, very much. 18:32:11 *dlowe* is thinking about making one. 18:32:12 dlowe: as long as it was vanilla and didn't yank in c-l-c and friends. 18:32:18 Xach: yeah, exactly. 18:32:26 dlowe: I'd love to see that for clisp and ccl and cmucl, too. 18:32:32 but sbcl is at the top of my list. 18:32:52 dlowe: you would be a kind of hero if you did it 18:32:58 heh. well, part of my install process is to pull sbcl from git and build it 18:33:02 blackswan: for your use case :around is perfectly fine imho.. Ie if you out to have a special case for returning some optimized class 18:33:12 and I thought to myself, "self, you do this way too much" 18:33:28 maxm-: I don't think that is allowed by the specification of make-instance. 18:33:30 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:03 maxm-: Is there a way to read "makes and returns an instance of class" that means that it's an instance of some other class? I'm not really seeing it. Or is there another section that clarifies? 18:34:23 dlowe: same here 18:34:29 Xach: IMHO it implicitly means "primary method of make-instance" 18:35:07 maxm-: the generic function is supposed to return something of the same class. Where do you draw this interpretation about primary methods? 18:35:40 sykopomp: common sense, but of course some MOP expert may correct me 18:35:59 but i'll stick to my guns unless someone wants to give me example where it won't work 18:36:35 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-98-87-25-199.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:39 maxm-: Ah, so it's argument by "it works for me" 18:36:40 maxm-: CLHS looks pretty explicit to me. 18:36:53 *Xach* has brucio flashbacks 18:36:53 hm. i can use my own metaclass, then make-instance means whatever i want it to mean... 18:37:01 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.37.74] has joined #lisp 18:37:54 Xach: also, if you click on instance, it gives you 3 subcases, direct instance (specifically the exact class of C, rather then subclass) 18:38:35 actually I take it back, since he wants to return something that is not a subclass 18:39:13 maxm-: This is something that comes up from time to time. I wish I could find the discussions. I'll try to track one or two down. 18:39:20 I only remember the conclusion, not the reasoning :( 18:40:00 oh. i found this: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/8e822b01a394bdfe 18:40:10 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:41:09 clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:11 Would a Debian-packaged ccl really be that handy? It's a one-line-command to get ccl, and then a one-line command to rebuild the whole thing. 18:41:21 rme: To me, yes. 18:42:03 rme: Perhaps not solely on its own (where you had to set up a repo JUST for ccl), but if it was part of a larger repo with all free implementations, it would be very nice for me. 18:43:07 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43:31 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-110.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:32 *slyrus* likes Peter Karp's job posting 18:43:44 its kind of different coz it changes the primary method.. MOP also says: Implementations are free to define implementation-specific before- and after-methods on specified generic functions. Implementations are also free to define implementation-specific around-methods with extending behavior. 18:44:06 slyrus: the one from SRI? 18:44:11 yeah 18:44:25 clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:25 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-63.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:44:46 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:45:01 also: Portable programs may define methods that extend specified methods unless the description of the specified method explicitly prohibits this. Unless there is a specific statement to the contrary, these extending methods must return whatever value was returned by the call to call-next-method. 18:45:24 -!- jrockway [jrockway@itchy.jrock.us] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:25 I don't see make-instance specifically prohibiting defining around methods to extend it 18:45:44 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 18:45:49 well actually, no, it says must return the call-next-method value... meh 18:46:17 slyrus: why? 18:46:22 damn you too pedantic CLHS and MOP, you worse then the patent office 18:46:26 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-5-203.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 18:46:43 Why do all problems I try to tackle seem to come down to parsing, usually either protocols or code (binary or source)? Perhaps my subconscious has a favorite hammer... 18:47:40 dnm: because there are a high number of problems that come down to serializing data between systems? 18:47:49 rme: I like maintaining software installations other than lisp libraries through my package manager. 18:48:09 fetching and updating CCL manually is just one extra thing I don't care to do. 18:48:16 *sykopomp* gets CCL from Arch's AUR. 18:48:22 j_king: True, but you'd think I'd try to learn some other domain skill for problem solving, e.g. signal processing or something. 18:52:08 dnm: write libraries or compilers. ;) 18:52:19 j_king: Well, not that I haven't tried really. Just haven't mastered or added it to the toolset. I still seem to reflexively reach for parsing... 18:53:23 -!- pbgc [~pbgc@bl20-175-98.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 18:53:32 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-63.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:53:35 askatasuna [~askatasun@186.22.226.243] has joined #lisp 18:53:46 thanx 18:54:07 -!- blackswan [~budam@159.63.137.53] has left #lisp 18:54:58 wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:16 I'd like to make CCL easy for users to install. I'm not sure I want to get into the business of maintaining half a dozen different flavors of Linux packages, though. 18:55:30 hi 18:55:35 sykopomp: hi 18:55:53 rme: ah, you can just write a lisp program that does it for you. "just" 18:56:11 Posterdati: um. Hi. 18:56:21 sykopomp: how are you ? 18:56:33 CCL is reasonably easy to install, except for its "ccl" script not setting the env var based on $(readline $(basename $0)), instead using hardcoded /usr/local/src/ccl 18:56:38 Posterdati: I'm... alright. You?.. 18:56:46 senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:47 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:54 otherwise it would have been just wget/untar/ln -s 18:56:54 sykopomp: not bad, not bad... 18:56:58 rme: I was thinking just the ubuntu LTS and latest, and debian stable and unstable 18:57:07 s/readline/readlink/ 18:57:30 dlowe: You would get SO many kudos from me you would need to use Amazon Kudos Locker to store them 18:57:38 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:57:59 hah. 18:58:07 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:58:17 well, maybe this weekend. make a nice small project. 18:58:25 unless someone else does it before me 18:58:34 -!- gigamonkey [~pseibel@adsl-99-179-47-227.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58:44 anyone here got more experience with ABCL? I need someone to grill about exporting java classes/interfaces backed by lisp code 18:58:50 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 18:59:32 has anyone written a tool for working with zfs volumes via cl? 18:59:43 or an unpublished one perhaps? 18:59:47 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.189.127] has joined #lisp 18:59:53 p_l: pretty sure there's an #abcl 18:59:58 Phoodus: ah right 19:00:03 forgot about it, thanks 19:00:05 -!- Fare [~Fare@74.125.59.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:00:32 less likely for your question to get buried there 19:00:48 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-63.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 19:01:11 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: *mniam*] 19:02:34 gigamonkey [~pseibel@adsl-99-24-218-232.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:16 osa1_ [~sinan@31.140.92.23] has joined #lisp 19:05:35 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-63.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:06:41 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl6-189-93.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 19:06:58 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:27 -!- gigamonkey [~pseibel@adsl-99-24-218-232.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:07:39 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.37.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:08:22 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:09:00 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:39 impulse32 [~impulse@65.92.153.91] has joined #lisp 19:12:14 -!- udzinari [user@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3aab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13:07 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:13:34 gigamonkey [~pseibel@adsl-99-24-218-232.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:06 Fare [~Fare@74.125.59.116] has joined #lisp 19:14:36 Yay, bug diagnosis and workaround! I like when I help people find a solution. 19:15:18 dekuked: working in what sense? 19:17:39 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:18:40 Common Lisp in everyday work of a PhD student. Today: Parsing bibtex with parser combinators \o/ 19:18:44 time to leave work 19:19:52 just 35 lines 19:20:13 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 19:20:19 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-91-176.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:21:00 jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-25-16.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:21 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:20 Neronus: Ooh, URL? 19:22:34 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:23:21 osa1__ [~sinan@31.140.8.14] has joined #lisp 19:25:55 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@31.140.92.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:26:16 ravster [~user@184.175.28.107] has joined #lisp 19:26:23 Hello everyone. 19:26:31 -!- drysdam [~dr@pool-70-16-207-162.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:27:59 antifuchs: I see you in a web chat! 19:28:59 LaosLos [~LaosLos@37.Red-79-148-252.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:47 -!- LaosLos [~LaosLos@37.Red-79-148-252.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:31:19 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@ip98-169-80-239.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:32:52 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 19:34:46 I'm getting an error "not of type (or function symbol)" when I run the function defined by the following code. I don't understand why it doesn't give the error when I call "create-scores" directly in the repl. 19:35:16 *Xach* waits to see if funcall or apply is involved 19:35:29 *Xach* wonders if there's an unevaluated (FUNCTION FOO) involved too 19:35:44 you and your obsession with CAR's 19:36:03 http://paste.lisp.org/+2R12 funcall is involved in the create-scores function. 19:36:31 ravster: what values do you pass to CREATE-SET? 19:36:54 *Xach* guesses: (defvar *list-of-functions* '(#'foo #'bar ...)) 19:37:00 instead of '(#'foo #'bar ...), (list #'foo #'bar) will actually create a list of functions 19:37:27 because the parameters to list are evaluated, not quoted 19:37:31 oh, yikes. 19:37:33 ah, I know that problem, you need to use read macro 19:37:58 *sykopomp* squints. 19:40:02 man can't find my code where I had this problem, but basically #'blah does not get converted into (function blah) in some cases 19:40:09 so since #'foo is unevaluated, shouldn't that just be passed through? and then it'll get evaluated during the call to create-scores? 19:40:16 maxm-: there is no problem like that. 19:40:17 ravster: no. 19:40:20 forgot was in nested backticks or somewhere else 19:40:40 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:40:43 ravster: it is passed as a list, (FUNCTION FOO) 19:40:57 oh, okay 19:41:00 ravster: Better to use (list #'foo ...) as Phoodus mentioned. 19:41:11 or if they are global names, '(foo ...) 19:41:24 A symbol is ok for designating a global function. 19:41:40 crap 19:42:12 ok 19:42:20 thanks 19:42:34 *maxm-* remembers having this problem, but can't find the code.. 19:42:43 I'll try that 19:43:08 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:28 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 19:45:15 maxm-: it hits the most during macro usage 19:45:24 at least, that's what I've found 19:45:45 yea it was something about #'foo being evaluated while foo was not yet defined, and having something to do with load-time values too 19:45:56 but for the life of me I can't remember the exact case 19:45:57 maybe some CLOS and MOP in there too? 19:46:00 driving me insane 19:46:48 Xach: don't think so 19:47:36 jrockway [jrockway@itchy.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 19:48:37 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:52:12 *maxm-* really dislikes the style of discussion where people insert a tiny dig here and there.. Serves no purpose and help no one 19:52:40 Xach: I was thinking of just an api wrapper or something 19:52:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:52:54 or anything zfs-specific really 19:53:40 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:56:49 I like to cheat by using run-program sometimes. 19:57:08 Not with ZFS necessarily, but with anything where there's a command-line tool that isn't too fancy. 19:57:28 Although I do have an interface to ImageMagick that runs through its command line. That is a pretty fancy program. 20:00:04 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 20:00:34 -!- rabite_ [~rabite@4chan.fm] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:01:13 rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has joined #lisp 20:04:15 felideon: haha, I see you too (: 20:05:55 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.31.67] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 20:09:17 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:09:36 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:10:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-239.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:28 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:19:26 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@186.22.226.243] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 20:25:22 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FEB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:25:25 (Likely) Dumb question: anyone know of an extant C source code parser/parsing framework (in CL)? 20:25:31 I'm gonna guess no. 20:25:50 dnm: check with http://cliki.net/ there are several parser generators. 20:26:05 dnm: genera's sources? 20:26:24 Just take any C grammar you can grab, reformat it (or write a parser for it) so that you can feed it to the parser generator you want. 20:26:50 Alternatively, there are Zeta-C sources around, but they're not finished to be converted to CL. 20:27:52 and compile a really old version of C, I imagine 20:28:01 Yeah. 20:28:30 Updating Zeta-C, *if* I had it and *if* it were not legally encumbered, would be a good deal of work. Hypothetically. 20:28:34 Assumedly, the grammar is separate so that you can easily edit it. 20:29:02 dnm: IIRC, somebody has been working on a C parser too, if only I could remember the URL 20:29:17 _schulte_ [~eschulte@ip98-169-80-239.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:24 -!- gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-kduhoqeffmhpiafa] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:41 Wow, there do seem to be a number of parser generators these days, according to what I see listed on cliki.net. 20:29:56 none of which are that good for all of C. 20:30:10 Both clang and gcc use hand-rolled mostly recursive-descent parsers. 20:30:24 I don't remember these being around, or at least collated on CLiki, last time I looked (years ago). 20:30:49 pkhuong: Yeah. I'm familiar with clang's internals. And EDG's FE. 20:31:44 dnm: the author of cl-yacc claims to have a C grammar and offered to let me use it, but I haven't been able to get a working link out of him. 20:32:10 -!- tensorpudding_ is now known as tensorpudding 20:32:31 I've found cl-yacc to be quite nice to use in and of itself, so I'd try for that. 20:32:36 gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-yihbsfhlbipmeijf] has joined #lisp 20:32:38 dnm: let me know if you get ahold of it! 20:33:52 Ralith: Any idea why he hasn't passed that on to you yet? 20:34:11 as I implied, he intended to, but gave me a broken link. 20:34:28 he hasn't responded to my followup and I haven't made a followup of my followup yet 20:34:29 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:32 Ah, so just a mistake rather than second thoughts ot some other reason. 20:34:34 *dnm* nods 20:34:42 I will inquire as well. Thanks for the pointer! 20:34:49 np, let me know how it goes! 20:35:02 Will do. 20:36:08 in all honesty, I don't understand why people go with c parsers, I mean you could go all the way down and write a ir parser for llvm... that'd be pretty badass 20:36:11 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 20:36:29 and it'd parse anything that uses llvm 20:36:41 but I probably don't know what I'm talking about 20:37:19 dnm: clang's api is pretty nice, if you only want to autogenerate wrappers and declarations. 20:37:44 dekuked: I want one for auto-generation of flat C bindings. LLVM IR does not provide enough information for this. 20:38:49 simon_weber [u4119@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mvugkkgonqtnmhye] has joined #lisp 20:42:25 nepnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-91-176.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:28 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@ip98-169-80-239.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:40 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-91-176.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:44:37 Ralith: auto-generation of C-flat bindings can be performed by Common Music. 20:44:48 Ralith: I'm writing Juliusz Chroboczek an email; should I reference you by IRC nick to jog his memory? 20:45:47 2/win 22 20:46:02 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:46:04 dnm: I've only communicated with him by email, but my nick should be recognizable from that; you're welcome to. 20:46:37 pjb: interesting; not where I'd've expected to find it. Do you know much about how it goes about it? 20:47:15 my ideal system is such that you could do (include-c "foo.h") and the appropriate use-library stuff and it would Just Work 20:47:32 Ralith: Email sent, I'll let you know if I hear anything back. 20:47:36 great :) 20:47:47 drysdam [~dr@pool-71-161-101-115.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:15 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:49:06 Ralith: yeah... I decided I'd go through cling to parse headers and compile wrappers at runtime ;) 20:49:15 wildnux_ [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-91-176.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:37 pkhuong: sorry, I don't followare you the maintainer of Common Music? 20:49:42 no. 20:49:55 you've implemented such a system for your own purposes, then? 20:50:11 -!- nepnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-91-176.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:50:34 Ralith: you've seen ccl's interface translator, right? 20:50:37 also: cling? 20:50:42 rme: no, I don't believe I have. 20:50:58 Ralith: slowly working on it. I figure we can either try and give cffi information about C, or tell a C environment about the calls I want to make. 20:51:24 Ralith: , CERN's next C++ REPL. 20:51:28 ah, right, that 20:51:47 is this successor of cint? 20:51:50 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 20:52:23 I'm really enjoying these Lisp Hacker interviews. 20:52:28 tell a C environment what, exactly? My understanding were that (include-c ...) would invoke/expand to a bunch of calls to defcfun and friends. 20:52:35 coz it kind of was promising but sucked. I in fact was using it as scripting language for my c++ stuff, but quickly got burned by slow performance and bugs, so switched to lisp 20:52:47 maxm-: yup. 20:53:02 maxm-: It compiles via clang now, so no performance issue. 20:53:07 Ralith: C-flat major and C-flat minor are musical modes. ;-) 20:53:21 pjb: ...... 20:53:22 ahahaha 20:53:29 man that went right past me 20:53:29 -!- osa1__ [~sinan@31.140.8.14] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:53:38 Ralith: http://ccl.clozure.com/ccl-documentation.html#The-Interface-Translator talks about it briefly. http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/CustomFramework is an example of using it. 20:53:39 well too late, once you go lisp you don't get fooled again 20:54:00 _0bitcount [~0bitcount@213.37.172.39.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:56:18 Ralith: we can try and do that, but getting all the defines and enum right might be an issue. Instead, I'm hoping to instead translate call forms to C source, and compile the latter via clang. 20:56:54 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:57:25 rme: interesting! Looks like it needs a little wrapping to be quite as convenient as I had in mind, though... 20:57:36 pkhuong: translate what to C source, exactly? 20:57:45 sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 20:58:00 austinh: URL? (re: Lisp Hacker interviews) 20:58:24 dnm: http://lisp-univ-etc.blogspot.com/2012/03/lisp-hackers-edi-weitz.html 20:58:45 austinh: Thanks! 20:59:30 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:59:50 BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:32 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.189.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:01:44 abgoosht [~chatzilla@66-194-89-234.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:17 Ralith: A call form, say (c-call "sin" 4.2). 21:02:43 pkhuong: are you working in ECL wherein C can be inlined or something? 21:02:47 *Ralith* feels like he missed something 21:03:16 -!- joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:03:18 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:03:21 Ralith: no, I plan to work with cling, the cern project I linked to 10 minutes ago. 21:03:35 ...that's in lisp? 21:03:42 oh wait I see. 21:03:45 that's bindable. Once. 21:04:03 you use cling to evaluate C code generated by c-call. 21:04:25 -!- abgoosht [~chatzilla@66-194-89-234.static.twtelecom.net] has left #lisp 21:04:28 that sounds rather slow and heavy, albeit effective. 21:05:05 A little bit of caching to catch common cases. That's an optimisation for later. 21:05:11 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 21:05:23 I'd be more worried about the cost of including and invoking cling 21:05:59 *maxm-* wondering how he had not seen mouse wheel = roll hue, shift roll sat, ctrl roll value interface for selecting colors 21:06:19 i just implemented first draft of it, and the fastest color picking method ever.. (inspired by emacs doremi) 21:06:44 probably because it's not "inuitive" 21:07:12 cost? It eats a lot of memory, I guess. 21:07:17 and things with color pickers seem to be obsessed with being usable by someone physically incapable of docreading. 21:07:33 Ralith: it plenty intuitive with a mouseover hint, and direct editing model 21:07:40 maxm-: don't tell me that! 21:07:53 pkhuong: I imagine it's quite a bit slower than a CFFI invocation, too. 21:08:00 direct editing => things change in the underlaying view as you change things in the settings dialog, without Apply step 21:08:19 Ralith: again, caching. 21:08:33 maxm-: hopefully there's a functional "cancel" that undoes any changes as well 21:08:38 pkhuong: it's unclear to me what you would cache so as to alleviate that. 21:08:45 Phoodus: of course there is 21:08:57 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-150-243.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:09:01 Phoodus: I think 'revert' would be more in the spirit of the direct-editing model. 21:09:10 so you could get back to initial conditions without closing the dialog. 21:09:21 Ralith: a runtime-generated C function. Still, my use cases for C libraries don't put a lot of pressure on foreign call performance. 21:09:33 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-166-172.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:09:38 fair enough 21:09:54 Ralith: ahh actually thats a good point 21:10:24 *maxm-* did "doh I screwed up" then cancel and restart dialog from scratch several times without realizing I needed "revert" button 21:10:31 I'd much rather save myself all that boring work with declaring low-level bindings, and get the lispy interface right. 21:10:44 fe[nl]ix: that's a nice change 21:11:14 pkhuong: indeedand you can always refactor. 21:11:16 mathrick [~mathrick@176.97.27.149] has joined #lisp 21:11:55 *if* performance is an issue, I can always rewrite some stuff with CFFI or whatever works. 21:12:53 That hack is far from working anyway. 21:13:09 Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.116.150] has joined #lisp 21:13:16 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:15:26 *maxm-* got tired of inventing new and new interfaces and structures for his C++/lisp interface, and ended up with two-tier model 21:16:12 1st level being the core, where you can't help it but call FFI with parameters. 2nd level being C++ sexp parser into bascially boost::qvariant backend s-exp's 21:16:56 so I can generate arbitrary data structures with backquote, pass it to C++, and unparse there... Does not really add that much overhead, and is very flexible for ad-hoc work 21:18:12 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@r186-52-152-115.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev] 21:18:18 than is "pass it to C++" as a string, then unparse there 21:24:17 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:29:55 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.2.203] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:30:06 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.41.10] has joined #lisp 21:32:12 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-48-223.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:08 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-48-223.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:13 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:34:24 _schulte_ [~eschulte@ip98-169-80-239.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:31 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:36:41 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xharcsiqjyfmweof] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:41 -!- simon_weber [u4119@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mvugkkgonqtnmhye] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:47 -!- dotemacs [u801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qnifieknrvjvsicg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:52 krrrcks_ [~krrrcks@krrrcks.de] has joined #lisp 21:36:59 -!- krrrcks_ [~krrrcks@krrrcks.de] has left #lisp 21:39:58 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082B586.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:10 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FEB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:15 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:41:51 -!- daniel__2 [~daniel@p5082A1FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:42:19 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.41.10] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:44:10 -!- bps [~bps@ip70-176-194-122.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:52:38 -!- dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:33 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:55:58 -!- mgodshall [~quassel@76.161.200.249] has quit [Quit: gurgle gurgle] 21:56:11 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:57:22 Farzad` [~farzadbek@46.225.106.110] has joined #lisp 21:57:28 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:58:13 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@100.Red-88-11-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:59:17 -!- Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.116.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:59:47 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:20 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-397038.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:07 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FEB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:04:20 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:22 agam [agam@nat/google/x-bmciqydlqfrpdvom] has joined #lisp 22:04:29 -!- agam_ [agam@nat/google/x-jvzrngbjltknprxw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:55 sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 22:05:44 dotemacs [u801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yboupkbynmkqhhma] has joined #lisp 22:08:04 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:11:56 -!- Vivitron` [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:49 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.147.122.66] has joined #lisp 22:18:52 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:19:43 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:36 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mjljlrrgvazvngyg] has joined #lisp 22:22:45 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:27:43 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-60-28.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:32:54 -!- _0bitcount [~0bitcount@213.37.172.39.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:35:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:39 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:40:05 initialization forms in let are guaranteed to be evaluated sequentially, right? 22:40:35 -!- Fare [~Fare@74.125.59.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:41:01 Ralith: yes 22:41:23 kk 22:41:50 askatasuna [~askatasun@186.22.226.243] has joined #lisp 22:42:35 drone [~drone@ip68-13-152-156.om.om.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:24 __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:18 entropax [~entropi@192.55.54.38] has joined #lisp 22:52:35 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-128-113.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:35 -!- Sbidicuda [~antani@host249-171-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:28 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 22:57:44 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has joined #lisp 22:57:45 -!- entropax [~entropi@192.55.54.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:03:38 -!- ngz [~user@22.220.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:05:07 -!- agam [agam@nat/google/x-bmciqydlqfrpdvom] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:05:25 agam [agam@nat/google/x-ldtirtbebwrifmon] has joined #lisp 23:14:37 *Xach* wishes for cl-yakshaver 23:15:36 bambucha [~bambucha@77-255-190-33.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 23:16:26 That expressions seems to be gaining popularity lately. 23:16:28 hi guys, how do you create cron like jobs in sbcl in your websites? eg. to update counters 23:16:51 update counters? 23:16:52 same process as main website I guess, a poller 23:17:00 yeah, select count(*) etc. 23:17:07 and save values somewhere 23:17:09 I don't know what that means, sorry. 23:17:19 However, when I want to run things periodically, I use cron and curl 23:17:20 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: good night] 23:17:29 and have curl fetch mysite.com/SYS/some-task 23:17:32 puchacz: you mean batch processing? :D 23:17:42 where some-task calls some handler that does some periodic task 23:18:08 Say, you want to announce on your webpage: we have 25,000 products in category X, and 30,000 in category Y. 23:18:13 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:18:20 in soviet repl, cron configures you 23:18:22 you don't do it by calling select count(*) on every page refresh 23:18:36 but say every 2 hours 23:19:18 puchacz: depends on the database, in mysql myisam count() is constant time 23:19:18 puchacz: make a separate datastore for caching (whether it be memcached, a table in your database, whatever) and interrogate that, and have something trigger appropriate reaction 23:19:21 so, Xach, your cron is actual linux cron, not some timers in the app? 23:19:22 in a civilized world, those totals should be updated incrementally 23:19:27 puchacz: yes 23:19:39 puchacz: and it communicates with the app via http 23:19:43 spacebat: myisam is also "hey guys, I discovered I can run sql on flat file" 23:19:43 -!- dru1d [~lukasz@ip-82-177-172-217.net.azartsat.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:20:18 myisam has its uses 23:20:29 Xach: have you got really long running admin processes? 23:20:44 and what about authentication? 23:20:57 orivej [~orivej@ip-83-149-3-163.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 23:21:02 You could do something like (ccl:process-run-function "periodic task" #'(lambda () (sleep (* 2 3600)) (do-periodic-stuff))) 23:21:49 puchacz: admin processes? 23:22:10 Xach: mysite.com/SYS/some-task-that-takes-really-long 23:22:10 puchacz: localhost access is sufficient for my needs 23:22:24 puchacz: if it takes a long time i do it in a new thread. 23:23:02 Xach, understand thanks 23:24:24 dru1d [~lukasz@ip-82-177-172-217.net.azartsat.pl] has joined #lisp 23:24:40 If I have an ASDF system and another one to test the first, how do I make sure that the second is recompiled rathen then reloaded from ASDF cache whenever the first changes? 23:25:47 -!- dru1d [~lukasz@ip-82-177-172-217.net.azartsat.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:28:38 mgodshall [~quassel@pool-108-36-207-226.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:02 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:30:04 albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:05 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:30:05 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 23:30:15 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:22 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:30:30 Am I right that ASDF has no mechanism to specify dependencies on macros in different files? 23:30:45 sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 23:32:08 ASDF has no mechanism to specify dependencies on anything but files. 23:32:22 (and modules) 23:32:28 (and maybe some other kinds of code units?) 23:32:37 (but nothing as fine-grained as a macro, certainly) 23:32:47 I mean files or systems containg macros. 23:33:53 you mean in a sense of "I need macro foo:bar, go import the system that provides it"? then no 23:34:08 orivej: right. That, I believe, is part of Fare's reasoning for creating xcvb (which does distinguish between compile-time and other-time dependencies) 23:34:08 If I depend on functions in a different file or system, I specify :depends-on or :components, and ASDF makes sure that they are compiled from the latest sources and loads them. 23:34:33 sykopomp: Seems I'm beginning to got that. 23:35:17 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:35:42 Thank you. And what about the specific problem of recompiling test system when the tested system changes? 23:35:43 ckairaba [~ckairaba@39.104.100.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:46 orivej: I'm not sure exactly what you are asking, but I believe FiveAM, for instance, recompiles macros everytime you run a test, presumably for this reason. 23:36:11 optionally* (and by default) 23:37:10 (still, I thought an asdf:load-system was enough to get macro users to recompile) 23:37:16 OK. Does stefil do it too? 23:37:32 I'm not familiar with stefil, but it would be easy to test. 23:38:07 Just put some code at the top of your macro and see if it runs every time you test. 23:38:42 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-143-157.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:49 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:38:57 adu [~ajr@64.134.97.193] has joined #lisp 23:38:59 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 23:39:15 -!- adu [~ajr@64.134.97.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:53 -!- BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.9.105] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:40:37 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:40:48 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 23:41:16 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:43:02 sykopomp: asdf recompiles further files in the same system if an earlier one in it changes, but it doesn't do the same for systems. And I put tests in another system, as recommened in the ASDF manual 23:43:21 ahh 23:44:41 And if I list all the files in the test system, it will not recompile test.lisp if earlier files were already recompiled in a system without tests 23:45:34 enn_ [~eli@codeanddata.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:35 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:45:35 -!- niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:45:35 -!- pokes [~pp@69.164.222.10] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:45:35 -!- chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:45:35 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2991.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:45:35 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:45:35 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:45:35 -!- FireFly [~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:45:35 -!- sbryant [~freenode@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:45:36 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:45:36 -!- devhost [~devhost@174.143.148.179] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:45:36 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:45:36 -!- vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:45:36 -!- izz_ [joel@montezuma.acc.umu.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:45:36 -!- enn [~eli@codeanddata.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:45:36 izz__ [joel@montezuma.acc.umu.se] has joined #lisp 23:45:37 chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 23:45:43 rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 23:45:47 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 23:46:00 Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:46:18 vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has joined #lisp 23:46:21 pokes [~pp@69.164.222.10] has joined #lisp 23:46:30 niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has joined #lisp 23:46:37 sbryant [~freenode@67.23.8.26] has joined #lisp 23:47:08 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-166-183.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:47:40 devhost [~devhost@174.143.148.179] has joined #lisp 23:47:41 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.120.159.209] has joined #lisp 23:48:02 lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:42 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:51:56 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.120.159.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:08 FireFly [~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 23:56:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:58:15 -!- niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has quit [Ping timeout: 610 seconds]