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It seems to be my browser. For some reason it thinks that the encoding should by simpified chinese. 00:27:33 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:29:35 nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-188-131.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:32:03 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-5-4.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:32:25 -!- nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-188-131.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:56 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-188-131.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:34:23 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:24 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-188-131.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:38:15 -!- dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 00:43:42 colonel_panic [~Adium@adsl-99-36-220-229.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:35 nitro_idiot 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#lisp 01:09:27 kai_ [~kai@e177088146.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:12:51 leoncame` [~user@KD175129170046.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:14:38 -!- leoncamel [~user@KD175129170046.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:18:32 yin [~yin@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 01:18:42 cbp`` [~user@187.208.0.7] has joined #lisp 01:21:07 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:21:55 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:02 -!- yin [~yin@69.166.22.190] has quit [Client Quit] 01:22:14 Kron_ [~yin@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 01:23:27 -!- Kron_ [~yin@69.166.22.190] has quit [Client Quit] 01:23:43 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 01:24:08 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:27:14 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 01:30:50 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has joined #lisp 01:36:47 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:42:52 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:42:53 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:43:19 -!- Farzad_Away [~farzadbek@46.225.103.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:43:27 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:44:43 *Xach* hacks more quickproject 01:51:04 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:52:16 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AC86.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:57:38 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:07 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58:38 BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:42 ckairaba [~ckairaba@39.104.100.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:40 -!- ckairaba [~ckairaba@39.104.100.84.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:02:05 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 02:02:30 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:43 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA00D6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:02:44 -!- kai_ [~kai@e177088146.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:05:42 *Sgeo* would like first-class places. 02:06:03 Trying to imagine how to implement that such that it works smoothly with existing stuff, but all I can think of involves eval. 02:08:04 Use a closure. 02:08:06 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has left #lisp 02:08:20 kai_ [~kai@f052103024.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 02:09:22 (lambda (value) (setf (second foo) value)) 02:09:26 Wouldn't I have to store a for... oh, I ... right... 02:09:54 Could store that along with getting from the place 02:10:09 Unfortunately, CL doesn't store all objects in vectors, like C does. 02:10:19 So things like pointer arithmetic are trickier. 02:10:33 What does pointer arithmatic have to do with it? 02:10:37 metic 02:10:53 Well, it allows the derivation of one first class place from another. 02:11:07 Why do you want first class places, anyhow? 02:11:17 Zhivago, inspired by Haskell lenses? 02:11:19 >.> 02:11:30 Although not really the same 02:12:12 What actual problem are you trying to solve? 02:12:25 Or is this just blindly fumbling in the hope of learning something? 02:12:45 Blindly playing around in the thought that it would be interesting and potentially useful. 02:12:58 Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:29 Fair enough. 02:13:53 Although I suggest that you replace "be interesting and potentially useful" with "learning something". 02:14:02 Utility requires problems to solve. 02:19:26 I apparently am bad at thinking up names 02:20:02 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:20:03 *Sgeo* decides to do the package thing correctly this time 02:20:28 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 02:21:18 Or, semi-correctly 02:22:16 Yay, I wrote a defpackage! 02:25:03 It feels awkward typing C-j 02:28:38 rboyd [~rboyd@c-68-54-222-187.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:05 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:32:41 Zhivago, ty for the closure thing btw 02:32:58 You're welcome; please learn how to spell "thank you". 02:35:19 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 02:35:20 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 02:35:20 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 02:35:25 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:39:34 dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:37 wuj [~wuj@207-237-2-224.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:40:42 BountyX [~andrew@d118-75-26-80.nap.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 02:41:56 -!- pspace [~andrew@d118-75-26-80.nap.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:45:31 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 02:45:37 springz [~springz@116.231.107.88] has joined #lisp 02:46:08 -!- cbp`` [~user@187.208.0.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:49:13 hello land of lispers. What do you think of this capsule overview of Lisp that I wrote for the lispgames wiki? http://lispgames.org/index.php/Lisp 02:49:33 it doesn't include any pseudocode, just explaining the high level and then referring the reader to the various dialect specific pages 02:50:28 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:52:14 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-234-226.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:52:18 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-147-196.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:34 kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:15 pspace [~andrew@d118-75-188-8.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 02:55:34 -!- BountyX [~andrew@d118-75-26-80.nap.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:56:03 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:56:10 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 02:59:28 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 03:02:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.62.87] has joined #lisp 03:02:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.62.87] has quit [Changing host] 03:02:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:03:17 arrsim [~user@128.250.116.167] has joined #lisp 03:04:05 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.145.203.53] has joined #lisp 03:05:34 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:11:19 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has left #lisp 03:13:37 -!- dryman [~dryman@OpenISDM.iis.sinica.edu.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:15:17 dryman [~dryman@OpenISDM.iis.sinica.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 03:17:25 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-237-2-224.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:32:51 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-lbzjukojocclopoo] has joined #lisp 03:33:40 -!- dryman [~dryman@OpenISDM.iis.sinica.edu.tw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:35:08 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:35:35 glycoknob [~mt@2001:0:53aa:64c:18fe:5f23:b029:6e72] has joined #lisp 03:38:07 if you create threads in a catch block and can the threads throw and will the exception be caught in the creating thread? 03:38:18 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:38:36 sorry for the bad grammar, I can't really think of another way to say it :) 03:39:01 cbp` [~user@187.208.0.7] has joined #lisp 03:39:27 that first and should really be a comma 03:39:53 dryman [~dryman@140.109.22.33] has joined #lisp 03:41:22 kruhft, mostly, no. 03:41:24 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:42:26 you can make it happen using your own control flow operators, but the builtin ones will not work across threads. There is no maintained thread hierarchy. 03:44:41 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f76045d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 03:44:50 damn, there goes that idea 03:45:17 i'm trying to figure out an easy way to ||ise my prime generation code 03:45:39 that was my first idea 03:45:48 -!- leoncame` [~user@KD175129170046.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:46:11 i'm sure my next idea will use mailboxes...i always use mailboxes 03:46:20 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.184.114] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:48:23 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:48:43 How about a linda tuple space? 03:49:53 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:49:59 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:50:03 go on... 03:52:12 Well, it's a tuple space into which you can add and remove tuples. 03:52:57 is that useful for generating primes or for ||isation? 03:53:07 -!- glycoknob [~mt@2001:0:53aa:64c:18fe:5f23:b029:6e72] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:53:40 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 03:54:01 For parallelization and distribution. 03:54:06 well, it seems to be a || construct according to the paper i found 03:54:14 You can think of it as an agent decoupling mechanism. 03:54:27 Agents don't interact with each other -- instead they produce and consume tuples. 03:54:40 i'm just looking to split my is-prime function into multiple threads, nothing too fancy 03:54:47 You can think of mailboxes as being a degenerate form of this. 03:55:05 ok, that makes sense 03:55:13 Yeah, it was your reference to mailboxes that lead me to suggest it. 03:55:40 i basically want to spawn n threads and pass in sucessive by 2 integers and have them test for primality 03:55:59 i was just hoping i could wrap that in a catch block and just throw an exception when i actually found a prime 03:56:40 are signal's carried across threads? 03:57:16 using a similar idea but wrapping the thread creation in a handler-case? 03:57:47 kruhft: There are no threads in CL, so these questions are system dependent. 03:57:54 ok, in sbcl 03:58:06 What does 'carried across threads' mean? 03:58:12 or using bordeaux-threads 03:58:28 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 03:58:32 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.87.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:39 Zhivago: i mean that a created thread will throw and exception or a signal and the creating thread will be able to catch it 03:58:53 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.82.151] has joined #lisp 03:59:25 so having the exception or signal go from a sub thread to a parent thread 03:59:28 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:59:30 Signals are raised, which invokes a signal handler in the context of the raise. 03:59:43 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:59:46 What problem are you trying to solve? 04:00:46 well, i generate a random set of bytes as an odd integer, test for primality and if it's not prime then loop through sucessive values (incrementing by 2) until a prime is found 04:01:33 so i was thinking i could just spawn some threads, pass sucessive primes into a mailbox that is being read by the threads and then have the sub-thread that finally finds a prime throw a signal or exception to stop the process in the parent thread 04:01:51 which will then clean up the threads and return the found prime 04:01:55 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:02:01 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:05 easy peasy multicore utilitzation, so i'm thinking 04:02:13 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:02:17 Why not just have a shared store for discoveries, and when it includes a positive discovery, have the workers exit? 04:02:24 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:34 You can then use negative discoveries to prevent work duplication, if you like. 04:02:51 what sort of data structure would you use for the shared store? 04:03:38 i guess i'm not familiar with that sort of architecture so i need a bit more of an explanation 04:04:37 mathrick [~mathrick@193.59.74.3] has joined #lisp 04:05:55 Well, say you had a hash-table with a lock protected accessor. 04:06:22 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5FD4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:46 Each of your workers would then use that accessor to see if the halting condition is satisfied, and also to see if the work they plan to do has already been done. 04:07:05 Is cl-stm any good? 04:07:10 And also to update it with the result of the work they've just completed (if any). 04:08:02 ArmyOfBruce [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 04:09:24 -!- dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:09:31 CrLF0710` [~user@223.240.92.182] has joined #lisp 04:10:50 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:20:09 -!- lebro [~xmike@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:21:47 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.200.176] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 04:22:02 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.200.176] has joined #lisp 04:23:43 Zhivago: that could get quite contentious if the individual threads' work can be completed quickly 04:23:52 i think i figured it out with mailboxes 04:23:59 better to just have per-thread mailboxes 04:24:06 than to try to optimize the exit case 04:25:41 I've got SBCL 1.0.55 and SLIME installed via the quicklisp helper. Whenever I do C-c C-c on a function it seems to compile it twice. Anyone seen that? 04:25:56 however, you could do a boolean global variable for a variable, and read it un-checked 04:26:11 ...for an exit variable.. 04:26:21 should be safe on most architectures 04:27:06 How does SLIME know, when I do the thing to compile a defun, which package it goes it 04:27:14 It feels a bit "magical" for my tastes, I guess. 04:27:37 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.228] has joined #lisp 04:27:56 -!- Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 04:28:07 gigamonkey: nope. 04:28:09 Phoodus: The contention is extremely narrow. 04:28:53 Sgeo: I've always assumed it just scans backwards looking for an IN-PACKAGE form. 04:30:02 Dan__ [~Dan@209-6-147-170.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:30:28 -!- Dan__ is now known as Guest81919 04:30:31 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-mpocrkhvrrzwyaaa] has joined #lisp 04:30:32 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-mpocrkhvrrzwyaaa] has quit [Changing host] 04:30:32 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:33:13 -!- Dan23 [~Dan@209-6-147-170.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:34:15 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:35:59 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:39:44 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:31 I'm trying to run the sbcl binary on Ubuntu 11.04. I'm getting "version `GLIBC_2.14' not found" 04:40:45 spacebat [~spacebat@150.101.97.47] has joined #lisp 04:40:46 o no 04:41:08 sounds pretty simple 04:41:28 my advice would be pretty experimental 04:42:34 try cd /usr/lib and ln -s libc.2.whatever libc.2.24.so and see if that works, if it doesn't, then don't blame me 04:43:57 Kenjin: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/915171 04:45:04 Kenjin: download an older binary and build from source. 04:45:07 austinh: thanks 04:45:47 thanks guuys 04:47:17 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:50:26 green` [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890292.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:51:52 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0FC0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:52:25 -!- green` [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890292.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:26 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890292.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:14 -!- saschakb 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[~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:54:09 Can I hack LOOP's INTO to work across inner loop via: 06:54:58 (loop with foo = 0 for bar from 0 sum (loop with baz = foo count (pred? baz))) 06:55:00 ? 06:55:06 Is there a better way? 06:55:47 wait, COUNT should have an INTO 06:56:45 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:56:48 -!- Guest81919 [~Dan@209-6-147-170.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:56:51 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:57:15 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 06:58:37 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-128-195.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:31 OK, here's a better explanation. I have an outer and inner loop. In the inner loop, I want to count the number of times a predicate was true, across all invocations of that inner loop. If I declare my variable in the outer loop with a WITH statement, I can't COUNT INTO the variable, because INTO works on loop-local variables. I thought I'd put a WITH statement in the inner loop to import the variable, but I have to g 06:59:31 ive it a different name. Is there a way around this? 06:59:51 Dan23 [~Dan@209-6-147-170.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 07:00:33 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:01:12 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-151-222.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:03:15 November [november@osiris.parodius.com] has joined #lisp 07:03:40 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.82.151] has joined #lisp 07:04:26 teggi [~teggi@123.21.160.39] has joined #lisp 07:07:07 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-125-51.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:17 -!- Dan23 [~Dan@209-6-147-170.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:09:22 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-002-185.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:38 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-128-195.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:11:40 I think COUNT is better for simpler cases. Why not just use a variable and INCF it in the inner loop? 07:12:14 I think it would be clearer to have a single obvious variable as your accumulator. 07:12:26 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:12:26 -!- twopi [~tristan@lvps176-28-16-172.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:15:11 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-121-125.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:16 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:17:42 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-125-51.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:19:36 colonel_panic [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:20:02 -!- dryman [~dryman@140.109.22.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:23:03 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@37.99.77.235] has joined #lisp 07:23:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:25:34 -!- kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:25:57 or (loop outer sum (loop inner)) if the computation can be arranged like that 07:27:46 dryman [~dryman@140.109.22.33] has joined #lisp 07:28:19 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.77.235] has joined #lisp 07:28:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.77.235] has quit [Changing host] 07:28:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:29:25 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@37.99.77.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:30:57 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-55.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:31:11 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-229-243.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:15 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-192.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:33:17 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:33:23 -!- phaer [~user@chello080108051063.9.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34:12 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-121-125.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:34:33 I'm summing a counting clause, and using the outer variable for something else. I ended up using incf. 07:36:02 -!- chimeracoder [~phoenix@c-24-91-19-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 07:36:07 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128315 07:36:35 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FC0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:36:42 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-192.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:37:40 -!- benny [~benny@i577A34D8.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:37:45 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:04 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-231-58.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:06 _KDr2_ [~kdr2@125.34.44.120] has joined #lisp 07:38:11 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@125.34.44.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:38:46 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:39:13 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:39:30 fasta [1334259@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:39:30 anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 07:40:10 I installed QuickLisp, followed instructions, but how do I start Slime now to get the CL-USER prompt? 07:40:26 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-229-243.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:40:38 M-x slime-connect returns an error if I just use the defaults. 07:40:39 kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:50 But if I do M-x slime seconds after that, it does work? 07:40:54 M-x slime 07:41:10 Did you paste the helper script into your .emacs? 07:41:13 austinh: M-x slime disables Slime mode. 07:41:20 austinh: yes 07:41:58 Why are you doing M-x slime-connect? It's just M-x slime. 07:42:09 chimeracoder [~phoenix@c-24-91-19-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:14 austinh: because M-x Slime disables Slime. 07:42:26 -!- idurand_ [~idurand@ABordeaux-253-1-80-195.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:42:26 -!- idurand [~idurand@ABordeaux-253-1-80-195.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:42:27 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:42:32 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:51 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-htlzqtsrymgjsmoh] has joined #lisp 07:42:53 austinh: my test is: open a new file called a.lisp. 07:43:13 What do you mean when you say it "disables" slime? 07:43:24 -!- chimeracoder [~phoenix@c-24-91-19-6.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:43:32 twopi [~tristan@lvps176-28-16-172.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has joined #lisp 07:43:39 austinh: M-x foo-mode when in Foo mode disables foo-mode for all modes foo. 07:43:43 austinh: that's an Emacs thing. 07:43:57 austinh: if I load a file named a.lisp, Slime mode is automatically loaded. 07:44:04 austinh: I presume that quicklisp does this. 07:44:09 momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573a77.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:44:12 slime-mode and slime are not the same thing 07:44:18 austinh: however, I do not see the CL-user prompt. 07:44:29 bas_ [~bas@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 07:44:31 austinh: ok 07:44:37 -!- bas_ is now known as Skola 07:45:04 austinh: ok, that's then confusing as hell :) 07:45:08 austinh: but it works then. 07:45:27 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 07:45:36 Normally, to toggle a mode, you would type 'M-x foo-mode', not 'M-x foo' 07:46:15 M-x slime starts slime and connects to it. 07:46:22 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:46:27 austinh: I have my cursor on the + symbol. How do I get documentation working? 07:47:05 austinh: or to be more precise 'point'. 07:47:44 It seems to only work for new expressions. 07:47:58 austinh: there are two types, eldoc and clhs 07:48:33 eldoc does just gives the prototype description in the minibuffer, and show a doc if it is documented too, the docstring 07:48:41 fasta: C-d h 07:48:56 clhs, opens or fetches the hyperspec docstrings i think.... 07:48:57 sorry, C-c C-d h 07:49:49 and there is slime-doc or so..... 07:49:53 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@ip98-169-80-239.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:50:07 which does not open it in a browser.... 07:51:46 I have to admit, I like how, when I was installing Drakma and didn't have the SSL library, it just waited there for me to install it and let me continue when I did 07:52:18 fasta: Where are you seeing slime-mode, anyway? 07:52:46 -!- cbp` [~user@187.208.0.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:53:12 austinh: tab completion shows it and if I see Slime loaded, I know it is slime-mode. 07:53:38 austinh: that slime and slime-mode happen to be two completely different things is not obvious. 07:53:58 Well, why are you running slime-mode in the first place? 07:54:16 austinh: it is auto loaded when you open a .lisp file. 07:54:27 Not on my system. 07:54:58 austinh: with QL? 07:55:15 Yes, I use Quicklisp. 07:55:22 good morning 07:56:02 Sgeo: are you quite familiar with Drakma? I just started using it and I have a quick question on the content type of the message body 07:56:24 momo-reina, I know next to nothing about it, sorry. 07:56:28 Just looked at it today 07:56:32 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 07:56:32 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:56:32 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:56:55 ah ok 07:58:42 is anyone familiar with how to decode the octet array that is returned by Drakma when it can't handle the content-type? 07:59:36 austinh: where is the documentation installed for Slime installed via QL? 07:59:49 I don't see anything in C-h i C-s slime 07:59:57 momo-reina: you need to find out what the encoding is 07:59:58 fasta: I don't think it installs any slime documentation. 08:00:03 and then you can use babel to decode it 08:00:04 i used it to retrieve an epub+zip mime-type file, since flexi-stream isn't familiary with the format an octet array was returned (as per specs i guess) 08:00:18 fasta: Not that I'm aware of, anyway. 08:00:19 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 08:00:21 galdor: problem is it wasn't text 08:00:24 momo-reina: what kind of array do you expect a zip file to produce? 08:00:38 i'm not even sure it can be done actually was just monkeying around 08:01:11 if it's a zip file, you have your data, just pass it to your zip decoder, write it in a file or anything you want 08:01:20 Ralith: tried it, doesn't work 08:01:29 i wrote the results to a file 08:01:40 unzip doesn't recognize it 08:01:46 that's not drakma's problem. 08:02:04 austinh: how can I load slime-doc and other useful features? 08:02:23 what does "decode" mean to you in the context of a zip file? 08:02:35 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-126-6.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:36 Ralith: i understand that, i was just wondering if it is possible to retrieve non text content or not 08:02:48 fasta: I'd start by reading the manual. It's online. I don't know how up-to-date it is. 08:02:51 it's possible 08:02:52 you understand what? 08:02:54 you sound confused. 08:03:04 momo-reina, I assume you would use a library meant for decoding zip files 08:03:09 i understand that it's not drakma's problem and it is performing to spec 08:03:19 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:03:21 you should try to answer my question. 08:03:29 -!- kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:03:38 is zlib installed ? 08:03:53 homie: what does that matter? 08:03:54 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:56 err libz or so 08:03:56 homie: yes 08:04:44 is that a ziplib ? 08:05:22 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-231-58.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:05:57 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.189.127] has joined #lisp 08:05:59 Ralith: from the specs, drakma will return an array of octets if it can't decode the stream. what i want to know is, in the context of non-text bodies (mp3, pdf, or in my case an .epub file) is there a way to take the array and turn it back into the original data format 08:06:03 kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:03 maybe decode was the wrong term to use 08:07:27 Turn an array of octets into a binary blob? 08:07:31 momo-reina: Yes, of course. You should be able to just write the data into a file. You must be doing something wrong. 08:07:54 well i've only ever tried it on epub files... i'll try an mp3 file 08:08:02 "turn it back into the original data format" makes no sense, though 08:08:30 momo-reina: Why don't you paste your code? 08:08:48 threw it away last night, i'll rewrite it now 08:09:08 Do you recall how you wrote out the data to a file? 08:10:10 momo-reina: an octet array is a conventional view of binary data. 08:10:25 momo-reina: the "original data format" of non-text data is binary data. 08:10:40 there is nothing to decode. 08:11:07 -!- ko1 [~k11@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:12:12 austinh: printed the value returned by http-request to a file-stream 08:12:53 Using PRINT? 08:13:34 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:14:59 Ralith: ok that makes it clearer thanks, i thought that the data underwent some sort of compression in the stream and it had to be handled in a certain way 08:15:09 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 08:15:13 austinh: yes using PRINT, not the correct way to do it i take it? 08:15:44 refer to the clhs page on print. 08:15:52 PRINT writes the printed representation of an object. I think you want WRITE-SEQUENCE. 08:16:11 I gotta hit the sack. Good night! 08:16:25 in general, it's helpful to review the clhs page on an unfamiliar function before using it. 08:16:51 austinh: thanks, i'll look into it 08:17:05 Ralith: got it thanks 08:17:15 good luck! 08:19:59 Is cl-store considered good, or are other libraries preferred. 08:23:31 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 08:30:11 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-128-178.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:17 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 08:31:52 momo-reina: You might also be interested in Chipz: http://method-combination.net/lisp/chipz/ 08:31:53 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:32:17 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-179.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:32:33 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:32:52 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-126-6.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:33:00 Actually, I know I can arrange my ... why don't I describe my exact problem. 08:33:20 -!- gz` [gz@clozure-123267BA.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 08:33:54 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:34:47 I want to make an IRC bot. I want to store configuration stuff for various uses. I want the configuration stuff for the users, which they can change via commands in chat, to be saved to a file. I want to save to a file when such a command is issued, and read at start-up. How convenient/inconvenient would reading and printing be, considering that I'd be repeatedly printing to the same file 08:35:00 gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 08:35:02 If I had to, I could easily make sure all data structures are serializable via print 08:35:38 Not very? 08:35:59 Not very inconvenient? 08:36:11 Not unless you were exceptionally incompetent. 08:36:15 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 08:36:26 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:37:09 Ok, thanks 08:37:18 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@65.92.153.91] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:39:27 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 08:41:08 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.245.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:47:59 Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.119.103] has joined #lisp 08:50:02 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-33-59.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50:37 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-60-28.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:50:38 sacho [~sacho@87-126-33-59.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 08:51:40 agam [~agam@216.239.45.130] has joined #lisp 08:54:57 gz` [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 08:55:41 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:57:13 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 09:07:48 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 09:08:46 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:09:05 What happened to Elephant? 09:09:46 Sgeo: that would be a big hammer for a small problem that you are describing 09:09:59 Sgeo: cl-store is said to be good. 09:10:27 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 09:10:47 cl-store isn't too big a hammer? Or are you just saying in general 09:11:08 And (just in general) what id happen to Elephant? Says development slowed in 2009? 09:11:11 *did 09:11:45 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 09:11:49 Sgeo: cl-store is just a serialization library, which seems to be what you need. if you need transactions and snapshots, bknr-datastore may be useful for you. 09:12:27 Sgeo: there are quite a few lisp projects that had traction during a period, then stopped being developed. 09:12:35 Sgeo: elephant may be one of those. 09:13:35 -!- samebchase [samuel@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:13:40 H4ns, bus factor? 09:14:07 Sgeo: no, "got a ruby job" factore more like 09:14:19 Oh 09:14:49 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-kpmqsnzwofxrkxoc] has joined #lisp 09:18:25 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:18:49 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:05 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 09:20:13 agumonkey [agumonkey@143.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:38 naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has joined #lisp 09:21:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:21:53 -!- ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:27:28 How opaque is cl-store to things written in other languages? Just asking as a general principle thing, not as "It's needed to solve this problem here and now" 09:29:40 i've not used it. i'd guess it is totally opaque to other languages. 09:30:02 if you need cross language interoperability, use xml, json or a database. 09:30:05 ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 09:30:21 cl-prevalence writes its logs in xml 09:31:49 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Quit: .] 09:32:50 -!- kai_ [~kai@f052103024.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:45 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FC0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:58 momo-rei` [~user@aa20111001946f573aef.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:36:20 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 09:37:24 -!- momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573a77.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:37:40 ZombieChicken [~none@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 09:38:28 -!- jiaxi 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joined #lisp 09:56:07 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:57:29 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.82.151] has joined #lisp 09:57:38 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:39 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:57:39 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 09:58:21 In ASDF 1, you had to use the awkward syntax (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :foo) to load a system, and similarly for compile-op, test-op. 09:58:21 In ASDF 2, you can use shortcuts for the usual operations: (asdf:load-system :foo), and similarly for compile-system, test-system. 09:58:25 Well, that explains tht 09:58:26 that 10:01:23 ahhah, that's convenient, makes it shorter... 10:01:26 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:02:02 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:02 -!- FACEFOX 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http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6878649/quicklisp-loads-library-but-is-nowhere-to-be-found-in-features#comment8191880_6879194 10:24:32 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:24:33 The link to the spec page doesn't work, features should have ** around it 10:24:34 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24:39 ehu [~ehuels@109.38.185.247] has joined #lisp 10:25:12 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:25:37 -!- pjb is now known as Guest29700 10:26:34 -!- Guest29700 is now known as pjb 10:27:38 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:27:40 -!- Skola [~bas@89.184.179.185] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:27:57 *Sgeo* wonders if there are any usable implementations for which #+x3j13 t #-x3j13 nil gives t 10:30:05 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:40 bas_ [~bas@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 10:31:09 -!- bas_ is now known as Skola 10:32:41 leo2007 [~leo@111.194.95.182] has joined #lisp 10:33:37 -!- xinming [~hyy@113.206.15.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:34:17 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 10:34:22 -!- Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.119.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:34:46 Sgeo: http://paste.lisp.org/display/27851 10:35:15 f 10:35:22 Sgeo: http://cliki.net also has a page about features. 10:35:34 xinming [~hyy@113.206.7.211] has joined #lisp 10:36:05 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:24 Sgeo: sorry, I meant: http://paste.lisp.org/display/34346 10:36:30 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:37:30 I'm looking at http://www.cliki.net/features 10:37:30 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37:32 Sgeo: the latest version is http://paste.lisp.org/display/123280 10:38:01 CMUCL has the features :ansi-cl and :draft-ansi-cl 10:38:24 :draft-ansi-cl is not permitted in conforming implementations, so CMUCL is not conforming... 10:38:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:39:44 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:39:56 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 10:40:19 Unless the page is wrong, and just shows all features that the implementation has ever supported? 10:41:03 Sgeo: use clall to check. 10:41:11 How can we know? 10:41:11 splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has joined #lisp 10:41:15 morning 10:41:41 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.137.26.211] has joined #lisp 10:42:02 I need to get cmucl on my system 10:44:07 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.117.180.147] has joined #lisp 10:45:21 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:46:21 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 10:46:25 * #+(and draft-ansi-cl ansi-cl) :illegal #-(and draft-ansi-cl ansi-cl) :legal 10:46:25 :LEGAL 10:46:59 Hmm, so why does the wiki page say what it says? 10:47:30 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.107.88] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:47:53 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:50:42 -!- xinming [~hyy@113.206.7.211] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:50:59 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:51:50 (push :draft-ansi-cl *features*) (push :ansi-cl *features*) ; have fun! 10:54:10 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:55:44 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:56:19 xinming [~hyy@113.206.7.245] has joined #lisp 10:57:20 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 10:58:21 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 10:58:45 -!- kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host 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[~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:01:44 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810F3F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:04:18 pnq [~nick@AC810F3F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:05:33 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:08:14 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:11:20 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has joined #lisp 12:11:42 pjb: Did you know it was gavino when you replied? 12:11:45 -!- Xach_ is now known as Xach 12:11:51 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-67-255-229-229.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:11:51 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 12:13:08 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:13:11 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-226-44.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 12:14:21 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:15:42 Sebboh [~hobbes@unaffiliated/sebboh] has joined #lisp 12:19:20 -!- gigamonkey [~pseibel@adsl-99-39-6-123.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:19:32 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 12:20:54 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:21:07 Xach: you mean Sgeo = gavino ? I didn't notice. 12:21:34 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.194.95.182] has quit [Quit: heads home] 12:21:52 -!- kruhft [~user@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:22:17 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:22:55 gigamonkey [~pseibel@adsl-99-179-47-227.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:48 rme [~rme@50.43.184.114] has joined #lisp 12:28:16 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:28:22 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-236-125.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:48 pjb: on usenet 12:29:00 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-128-178.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:29:20 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810F3F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:30:11 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:31:06 -!- alek_b [~alek_b@99-10-120-63.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:39 pnq [~nick@AC810F3F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:33:48 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-238-19.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:37 -!- drdo [~user@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:36:42 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-236-125.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:36:44 I didn't either. I had a puff of newbie friendliness. 12:37:09 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 12:38:35 -!- rboyd [~rboyd@c-68-54-222-187.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: rboyd] 12:39:16 pjb: The insidious reasonableness sucks everyone in for a few minutes 12:39:29 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:39:32 But you have to watch out for the red flags of "cl-prevalance" 12:40:39 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-158-231.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:56 He might be slowly evolving. 12:41:59 TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF6A51.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:30 There is little evidence of that on usenet 12:42:37 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:43:18 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-238-19.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:44:10 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:44:23 man, you saying I had been wasting my time dispensing yoda-like wisdom on usenet kook? 12:45:41 maxm-: Where were you dispensing the wisdom? 12:46:50 Xach: I tried to point him in the direction of using CL to write software, rather then his current direction of dicking around with cps, lambdas, continuations, "can we rewrite CL in scheme" and such 12:47:08 Where did you do this pointing? 12:47:12 IRC? Usenet? 12:47:31 these things have their place, but only in the context of using them to actually accomplish something. But themselfs, they are distraction 12:47:47 "rewrite CL in scheme"? 12:47:50 Xach: usually on this channel 12:47:53 *Odin-* fails to see the point. 12:47:58 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810F3F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:48:26 Odin-: actually there's a point of having a CL implementation written in Scheme. 12:48:58 maxm-: Gavin Schuette aka gavino aka gavcomedy aka quiet_lad aka dollar_democrat aka, aka, aka has a pretty specific pattern. 12:49:03 Odin-: there's the old Butterfly CL, which ran on Butterfly Scheme. It would be nice if it was updated to run on any r7rs scheme when it's standardized. 12:49:33 pjb: It can be done. I just don't quite understand what's accomplished with it. 12:49:40 Odin-: actually, there's a point of having a CL implementation for about any other PL. 12:49:45 Xach: I usually don't read c.l.l, only was checking it last few weeks due to posting log4cl announcement and having to post responses 12:49:48 ... rather like CL-on-the-metal. 12:50:07 Odin-: it's a political statement. If you're restricted to some language, you can always fetch a CL meta-linguistic library. 12:50:08 probably will stop now, since its already been a more then a week without activity on that thread 12:50:23 maxm-: he joins #lisp sometimes and posts to comp.lang.lisp sometimes 12:50:30 pjb: Hm. True. 12:50:49 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:50:56 Although I've only seen Python-in-CL, not the other way around. 8) 12:50:57 Odin-: or, if you will, a pre-packaged Greenspun's Tenth Law. 12:51:07 lol :D 12:51:11 maxm-: Red flags: "Can CL do ? Is CL used in enterprise? Could I write web browser in CL? Can you write postgres in CL? Does anyone use cl-prevalence? What enterprises use CL? Are there CL libraries for java enterprise tasks?" etc 12:51:18 Odin-: unfortunately, lispers will prefer to write a CL program than to target other languages :-/ 12:51:19 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 12:51:21 pnq [~nick@AC810F3F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:51:28 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 12:51:47 pjb: "If you're going to do it, at least use someone else's tried-and-trusted shoddy version" style? :) 12:52:12 Xach: well sometimes a person would ask those things seriously. I mean when I came to learn CL I certainly had these kind of questions 12:52:14 Xach: Didn't they actually write postgres in Lisp to start with? 12:52:40 maxm-: Yes, that's the problem with gavino 12:52:42 They did. 12:53:00 maxm-: Well-meaning people want to help him understand. There is no understanding. It's been many years of the same questions. 12:53:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:53:32 maxm-: And the frequent alias changes sometimes trick people 12:54:02 Every time gavino gets kicked from #lisp, there's some newbie who chimes in with "Gee, that's harsh" 12:54:12 That's the saddest thing, people who can't learn 12:54:34 At least if we were physically closed, we could always hit them on the head, perhaps eventually they'd learn. 12:54:45 add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-47-223.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:54:47 http://technoninja.blogspot.com/ - gavino's blog 12:54:53 mathrick_ [~mathrick@ip186-c13.gl.digi.pl] has joined #lisp 12:56:27 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:56:32 who was the one with the semicolons and the extremely tortured english? 12:56:33 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.117.180.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:56:38 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@ip186-c13.gl.digi.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:56:42 sean champ 12:56:52 ah yes 12:57:17 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.34.29] has joined #lisp 12:57:19 Xach: Well, at least his blog is not about lisp :-) 12:57:26 pjb: It is, sometimes. 12:58:09 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:58:18 http://technoninja.blogspot.com/2012/01/wwwprevaylerorg-oracle-database-is.html e.g. 12:59:16 oh, what a shame, sean champ's blog has been purged 12:59:52 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.117.180.147] has joined #lisp 13:02:32 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:02:43 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:09 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:03:20 Xach certainly has stalker tendencies :-) 13:03:29 *maxm-* adds him to "be careful with that guy" list 13:05:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:05:14 *maxm-* never bothers to try to research a person posting history, or try to find their other aliases etc.. "Assume person is normal initially" works for me 13:06:19 maxm-: If someone is abnormal, do you remember that? Or do you throw it out each time you have another conversation? 13:07:05 Xach: usually I can recognize person's posting style / questions even under different name, even if its vague "did not this guy was here asking same thing 1 month ago" 13:07:27 maxm-: So is that stalking or paying attention? 13:07:45 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:08:34 inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279437128.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:09:19 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 13:09:29 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:09:40 Xach: I called it "stalking" in a joking manner, relax.. Everyone has their own techniques, mine works for me, "paying attention" works for you, all is good 13:09:42 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.117.180.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:43 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 13:10:46 krrrcks [~krrrcks@krrrcks.de] has joined #lisp 13:11:09 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:11:09 Dan23 [~Dan@c-76-118-198-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:09 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-166-106.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:11:48 It's just a good clean bromance. 13:11:55 maxm-: I encourage you to give paying attention a try. 13:12:01 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Client Quit] 13:12:25 idurand [~idurand@laptop-147-210-129-159.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 13:14:22 cage [ddab91e4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.221.171.145.228] has joined #lisp 13:14:46 it gets into offtopic, but (there had been research/books) each person has limited amount of willpower/attention. Ie "focus" is actually a limited physical resource, just as endurance.. So focusing intently in one area, means you will be unfocused in another. 13:15:20 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@ip186-c13.gl.digi.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:15:41 personally I discovered its possible to focus and pay attention all the time, but it leads to burn out.. So I use focus sparingly, usually for coding and trading, while taking it easy and being disorganized and ADHD like in other areas 13:15:52 maxm-: http://lesswrong.com/lw/2y2/willpower_not_a_limited_resource/ 13:16:09 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-002-185.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:16:12 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810F3F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16:21 so there're different opinions, as always ... 13:16:28 Does anybody know the planned date for the notification of acceptance for ELS2012? The Web site says March 7th! 13:17:17 flip215: on a risk of being kicked out, I had looked at lesswrong for a bit in free time, and (I'm do not mean to offend), it seems most of the site is newagey "I'm approaching 40 so singularity is here in 20 years" kookery 13:17:43 idurand: maybe rejection takes another week or two? 13:18:02 -!- cage [ddab91e4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.221.171.145.228] has quit [Client Quit] 13:18:46 maxm-: no need to apologize ... as I said, different opinions are "normal" ;) 13:19:22 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-90-114.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:19:29 *flip215* mumbles "I just read it for the comments/pictures anyway" 13:20:16 All resources are limited; it is not an interesting argument. 13:20:32 tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.64.163] has joined #lisp 13:20:51 except entropy 13:20:53 Zhivago: sorry, but Einstein said he's not sure about a limit for human stupidity ... 13:22:55 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@435.lab.ics.p.lodz.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:23:04 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:23:39 Entropy is also limited. 13:25:08 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:25:48 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-40-6.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:26:07 Is not entropy both finite and static? :) 13:26:30 (given a whole-universe POV.) 13:27:59 only if you think that heat death has already occurred 13:29:07 and you might as well think that if your willpower is depleted! 13:29:38 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:30:38 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-032-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:55 Heat death will have always already occurred. (sic) but enough of that. 13:32:38 Hi, what's (type-of (byte 2 3)) in Lispworks and CMUCL? Haven't got one in hand. (i think in CMUCL it may be the same as SBCL, in which it is a cons). 13:33:34 -!- oGMo_ is now known as oGMo 13:33:35 CrLF0710`: Lispworks gives cons 13:33:50 mal: thanks~ 13:33:51 CrLF0710`: the answer is implementation-dependent. 13:34:03 yeah, i'm collecting the answer. 13:34:08 Why? 13:34:08 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.118.227] has joined #lisp 13:34:49 Just want to handle it with (typecase). 13:34:55 CrLF0710`: why? 13:35:42 Well, no particular good reason... Might be useful later... 13:35:44 CrLF0710`: the mere possibility of it being undistinguishable from cons should have dissuaded you 13:36:13 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:36:26 CrLF0710`: there is a particularly good reason to not test the real value. it might change tomorrow, even under the same implementation. 13:36:38 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 13:37:21 Xach: yes...you are right... 13:37:55 I don't think it's unconditionally bad. I'm really interested in hearing conditions that would make it necessary to check. 13:38:08 Xach: However, you must know this if you want to use it in a generic function or something like that... 13:38:09 *Xach* lacks the imagination to come up with a scenario, though 13:38:09 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:38:32 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:40 CrLF0710`: Why? 13:38:42 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.82.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:39:04 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.83.172] has joined #lisp 13:39:29 He might be preparing for a lisp counterproductive trivia quiz. 13:39:53 :) haha 13:41:38 cbp` [~user@187.208.0.7] has joined #lisp 13:45:36 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 13:45:52 Obfuscated CL Code Contest. that'll put CL on the map of hip languages. 13:47:09 one of the more difficult things in making sbcl truly build under more unrelated CL implementations was getting BYTE right 13:47:46 when I did, for kicks I made BYTE return first (cons size position), then (cons position size), then (vector size position) 13:47:50 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:48:00 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:48:09 teggi [~teggi@123.21.160.39] has joined #lisp 13:50:05 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Offline] 13:50:07 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:51:03 -!- krrrcks [~krrrcks@krrrcks.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:04 I can imagine writing CL in CL needs constant attention to leekage from the compiler into the compiled 13:51:28 ISTR there are some places in LiSP where Quiennec isn't careful enough about that 13:51:28 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:46 mathrick [~mathrick@ip186-c13.gl.digi.pl] has joined #lisp 13:55:37 solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has joined #lisp 13:56:20 can someone explain ',' to me, e.g.: (let ((m '(u i)))``(,',m)) 13:58:03 solussd: it causes the next expression to be evaluated in a backquote expression 13:58:43 solussd: `((+ 1 2) ,(+ 1 2)) => ((+ 1 2) 3) 13:59:25 what I don't understand is the immediate quoting of something I just unquoted and then unquoting it again 13:59:36 sollusd: Think about `(quote ,v) 13:59:39 solussd: another way of thinking of it: `((+ 1 2) ,(+ 1 2)) expands (potentially) to (list '(+ 1 2) (+ 1 2)) 13:59:55 (of course, only when I have double back ticks trying to distill much more complicated scenarios to just my question) 13:59:59 solussd: take a look at "On Lisp" from Paul Graham, chapter "Macro defining Macros" 14:00:18 sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:49 yeah, everything makes sense until I have double back ticks and ',' :) 14:02:15 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:02:37 -!- cbp` [~user@187.208.0.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:03:52 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:04 BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:09 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:07:37 mgodshall [~quassel@76.161.200.249] has joined #lisp 14:11:22 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:11:41 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-166-106.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:12 cbp` [~user@187.208.0.7] has joined #lisp 14:12:15 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-166-106.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:13:04 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:13:57 -!- inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279437128.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:26 -!- idurand [~idurand@laptop-147-210-129-159.labri.fr] has quit [Quit: Fermeture du client] 14:15:55 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:16:31 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-166-106.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:17:01 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 14:18:08 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@ip186-c13.gl.digi.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:20:35 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 14:21:07 hi tomodo . 14:21:55 sacho_ [~sacho@87-126-33-59.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 14:24:44 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:25:08 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-33-59.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:26:03 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:26:06 mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:26:19 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:26:29 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:27:46 joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has joined #lisp 14:28:30 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 14:28:50 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@r186-52-136-171.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 14:30:34 megamind [~Nevermind@123.16.232.244] has joined #lisp 14:30:43 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:30:59 is that PicoLisp popular ? 14:31:40 perhaps you can ask in its irc channel 14:32:44 good morning sykopomp. 14:32:58 hello, dto 14:36:17 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:37:06 jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-25-16.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:03 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:38:19 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:38:54 tlw8913 [~tenorplay@nat1002.oc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:39:05 thought, here is a general channel about Lisp 14:39:10 -!- tlw8913 [~tenorplay@nat1002.oc.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 14:39:21 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 14:39:35 Well, apart from the CL bigots. 14:39:58 CL dominated ? 14:40:04 megamind: /topic. This channel is for Common Lisp. 14:42:42 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:43:24 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:44:11 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FC0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:44:12 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:45:02 -!- justicefries [justicefri@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:e325] has left #lisp 14:45:36 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has quit [Quit: #WeeChat #Mises #emacs] 14:45:50 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-98-87-25-221.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:14 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:48:13 solussd: I found "Quasiquotation in Lisp" by Alan Bawden helpful for understanding nested backquotes. It's an ~8 page pdf and should be retrievable through internet search 14:48:42 Vivitron`: thanks! 14:49:10 mathrick [~mathrick@ip186-c13.gl.digi.pl] has joined #lisp 14:49:42 klappo [~benny@i577A34D8.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:50:05 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-25-16.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:50:29 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:50:38 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:51:29 jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-25-16.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:07 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:52:43 -!- klappo is now known as benny 14:53:05 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.118.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53:39 Vivitron`: I just found that document 14:53:45 Vivitron`: reading it now. It's wrong. 14:55:07 -!- solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has quit [Quit: solussd] 14:55:45 ! maybe it wasn't as helpful as I remember, what's the error? 14:56:14 Vivitron`: It's helpful all right. I might just be nitpicky 14:56:27 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.223] has joined #lisp 14:56:50 He's suggesting that (list 'a b) is identical to `(a ,b) as the reader transforms the latter into the former 14:57:08 Although he later explains that the actual mechanism is platform-dependent 14:57:19 Yes, it's not necessarily identical. 14:57:30 pjb: yes 14:57:31 However, their evaluations should lead to EQUAL results. 14:57:38 but the way he expresses it doesn't make that clear 14:57:48 like I said, I could be nitpicky 14:57:54 ah, and it would be very confusing to someone not aware that ` can create constant objects, good catch 14:58:09 yeo 14:58:10 yep 14:58:36 He says that they are identical in the same sense that (a . (b . nil)) is identical to (a b). Which is clearly wrong. 15:01:23 blandest [~blandest@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has joined #lisp 15:02:00 loke: (a . (b . nil)) is identical to (a b) 15:02:13 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:02:22 actually one of the few things Scheme gets right is standardising the quasi-quote expansions 15:02:26 Well, equivalent to. 15:02:49 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 15:03:06 Since we can clearly discriminate between those two forms. 15:03:56 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:04:07 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:04:08 mathrick_ [~mathrick@ip186-c13.gl.digi.pl] has joined #lisp 15:04:12 Zhivago: outside of writing a reader macro, how can you discriminate between the two forms? 15:04:34 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 15:04:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:05:14 By looking at the forms. 15:05:23 -!- dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:36 The important bit is that they are equivalent because swapping one for the other will produce the same result. 15:06:01 mal: you can get the same benefit by using your own backquote library. 15:06:03 kushal [~kdas@114.143.162.110] has joined #lisp 15:06:03 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.162.110] has quit [Changing host] 15:06:03 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:06:15 Zhivago: right, but you can't discriminate in your lisp code apart from manipulating the reader. 15:06:39 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@ip186-c13.gl.digi.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:07:02 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:07:53 pjb: clearly but that argument works for just about everything. I can get full control by writing my own implementation of CL. 15:08:09 urandom__ [~user@p548A2F25.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:17 mal: yes, the difference is that it's crazy easy to do in CL. 15:08:30 mal: writing your own bq is not that hard. :) 15:08:30 (compared to the other environments). 15:10:36 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:13:49 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 15:15:02 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:15:33 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:16:31 dlowe: yes, it is 15:16:55 dlowe: but what is not identical is what he compared it to 15:17:06 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 15:17:07 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:17:07 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:17:21 Hey guys http://young-ocean-1914.herokuapp.com/ ;) 15:17:38 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:52 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 15:17:53 Kenjin: is it lisp? 15:17:57 :) 15:18:04 is it no? 15:18:08 Hunchentoot and SBCL 15:18:18 I have a 404 15:18:46 yeah, but you should also have the server info 15:18:50 yep 15:20:11 i have 404 also 15:20:16 been playing around with mtravers' heroku buildpack ;) 15:20:24 Kenjin: cool! 15:20:40 Its supposed to be a 404. Its just to show that is running Hunchentoot and sbcl ;) 15:20:43 splittist: :) 15:21:00 met the heroku team at pycon. talked a bit about the CL buildpack. 15:21:14 cool 15:21:42 did you get sbcl running on it? 15:22:36 kpreid_ [~kpreid@128.153.50.129] has joined #lisp 15:22:41 no, he's running CCL, and has changed the functions LISP-IMPLEMENTATION-TYPE and LISP-IMPLEMENTATION-VERSION 15:22:59 ah 15:23:10 mathrick [~mathrick@ip186-c13.gl.digi.pl] has joined #lisp 15:23:33 -!- sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:23:35 I did 15:23:40 -!- benny [~benny@i577A34D8.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:23:57 https://github.com/jsmpereira/heroku-buildpack-cl 15:23:58 sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:06 Kenjin: thanks. :) 15:24:17 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FC0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:34 I need to cleanup a bit, but it works 15:25:19 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:25:19 -!- kpreid_ is now known as kpreid 15:25:31 One thing that Its not working is my example app. I define an easy-handler but for some reason hunchentoot is not picking it up 15:26:05 ko1 [~k11@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 15:26:10 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@ip186-c13.gl.digi.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:26:27 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 15:26:31 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:27:29 kpreid_ [~kpreid@128.153.179.223] has joined #lisp 15:27:32 https://github.com/jsmpereira/heroku-cl-example 15:27:33 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:27:50 can someone take a peek and see if something is obviously wrong or missing 15:28:03 I'm not that familiar with hunchentoot 15:28:06 Kenjin: I had the same problem when I tried hunchentoot, I did'nt find a solution though 15:28:48 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.200.176] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:28:51 It works fine on my machine though 15:29:07 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:29:25 Kenjin: you have the same version of Hunchentoot? 15:29:58 benny [~benny@i577A21F6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:29:59 -!- mee [mee@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe96:f382] has left #lisp 15:30:29 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.50.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:30:29 -!- kpreid_ is now known as kpreid 15:31:35 jdz: yes 15:32:27 -!- blandest [~blandest@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:33:56 -!- theconartist is now known as _tca 15:34:20 Kenjin: Wouldn't you need to start an acceptor somehow? 15:35:36 Neronus: I do, in the top-level function of the app 15:35:55 -!- CrLF0710` [~user@223.240.92.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:36:07 https://github.com/jsmpereira/heroku-buildpack-cl/blob/master/setup/compile.lisp#L43 15:37:40 wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has joined #lisp 15:38:41 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:40:31 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:40:36 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-120-19.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:41 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:41:03 bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 15:41:43 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has joined #lisp 15:41:54 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:42:07 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@ip186-c13.gl.digi.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:42:07 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:42:42 -!- nauar [~nauar@ip235200.bcn.altecom.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:43:20 http://young-ocean-1914.herokuapp.com/hello-sbcl ;) 15:43:42 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-158-231.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:44:10 for some reason it appears the example app is not aware of hunchentoot:*dispatch-table* 15:44:29 I added (format nil "~a" hunchentoot:*dispatch-table*) to my handler definition and it worked ;) 15:45:09 that sounds very strange. Does it stop working if you take it out again? 15:45:25 let me try 15:46:14 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:46:34 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-410208.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:48:20 _schulte_ [~eschulte@ip98-169-80-239.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:52 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120305181207]] 15:50:31 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AB6B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:45 Neronus: it does not 15:51:38 It does not stop working, that is? 15:51:52 yes 15:52:04 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:52:27 then I guess something else went wrong. Cool that it works, though :) 15:52:56 :) Any idea what might've been though? 15:54:06 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:54:26 nope, sorry 15:55:10 :) I'll dig into it. I'm going to cleanup the code a bit and try to make it easy to choose between implementations and webservers 15:55:27 In that case I also might give it a try one day :) 15:56:03 :) 15:56:47 mathrick [~mathrick@ip186-c13.gl.digi.pl] has joined #lisp 15:57:08 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.148.207.111] has joined #lisp 15:57:43 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:58:52 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.223] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:58:57 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:58:58 hrm slime doesn't seem to open the source location if something was compiled from a buffer and the buffer gets closed .. i could have sworn it used to 15:59:02 _nix00 [~Adium@180.172.63.17] has joined #lisp 16:00:01 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:00:38 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.64.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:03:11 Looking forward to an implementation of iOS <-> swank via RPC (: 16:03:38 superbeer [~superbeer@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 16:04:29 iwillig [~iwillig@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:43 oGMo: it's had that issue with M-, for a long time. 16:04:55 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:05:05 iirc 16:05:38 hrm maybe i fixed my kill-buffer function at some point then 16:06:07 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:06:30 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.226] has joined #lisp 16:06:53 I wonder how much $$$ a crowd-funded iOS<->swank project would generate. 16:07:24 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@r186-52-136-171.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07:51 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@r190-135-13-185.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:08:04 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@180.172.63.17] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:08:10 *Sgeo* looks at c.l.l 16:08:16 ...."COBOL Lisp"? 16:08:24 shield your eyes before it's too late. 16:09:44 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-kpmqsnzwofxrkxoc] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:10:56 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:02 hmm just discovered you can drag PNG from firefox into emacs, and it opens a buffer with it 16:11:21 -!- Skola [~bas@89.184.179.185] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:11:42 you can even browse pdfs that way 16:11:45 i wouldn't recommend it 16:12:15 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-fppyuqphfylmsqtj] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:12:17 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-192.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:12:29 jnet7 [~jnet7@117.192.145.183] has joined #lisp 16:13:41 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-192.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:15:21 Sgeo has been reading c.l.l? 16:15:41 it's too late. We've lost him. 16:16:04 sykopomp: I woner if he'll discover RG and Xah as well? 16:16:18 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:18:08 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:18:23 mathrick_ [~mathrick@ip186-c13.gl.digi.pl] has joined #lisp 16:19:05 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@ip186-c13.gl.digi.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:20:42 -!- bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 16:21:56 Xah Lee apparently learns that CL is not functional. 16:22:33 Sgeo: It's more complicated than that 16:22:46 sellout_ [~rooms@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:09 Sgeo: He has also made it clear that CONS is the antithesis of functional programming, while arrays and vectors are the true functional cornerstones. 16:23:46 ! 16:24:32 Sgeo: I'm pretty sure XL is off topic 16:24:46 "like the lion hits the antelope, like the hammer hits the cantaloupe" 16:24:49 can't we just agree that Xah Lee is a genius and move on? 16:24:50 Sgeo: just read the first post in this thread. A true gem: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/cf9y_A9F7II 16:24:58 His reasoning is that CL provides imperative things to manipulate conses, therefore, conses are non-functional? 16:25:03 That's just... uh 16:25:18 bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 16:25:19 tomodo: Yes, definitely. Reading his web site makes that painfully clear. 16:25:26 discussing usenet idiots is off topic 16:25:30 "BAN lispers from using list or cons. Everything should be vector/array 16:25:30 instead. " 16:26:24 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.46.182] has joined #lisp 16:26:35 -!- jnet7 [~jnet7@117.192.145.183] has quit [Quit: jnet7] 16:27:05 -!- bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Client Quit] 16:28:03 Actually, I think his misunderstanding is that just because you can create a new cons whose car/cdr points to other elements, thus, for example, creating a new list that shares its tail with another, that would mean that he's mutating the list. The man has severe problems with rational thinking. 16:28:17 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:28:53 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=466302 16:30:07 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:30:20 Xah Lee's hooker story is like godwin's law. 16:31:41 What the hell... He's been doing that for close to a decade now? 16:32:13 It's funny. One would think that after being exposed to programming for that long, one would pick up just a hint of skill? 16:32:48 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-128-113.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:33:25 I am pretty sure Xah Lee used to hang on this channel a few years back? 16:33:38 He tried. 16:34:00 loke: dude, Xah Lee can't imagine the fact that a lot of RISC machines included once powerful workstations with multimedia et al 16:34:26 incf H4ns 16:35:42 p_l: wow. What's the backstory to that one? 16:36:23 loke: discussion about keyboards, and his reaction to Sun Type 5/6 having volume control and power buttons. Seriously 16:36:33 loke: can you take it elsewhere, please? thank you. 16:36:38 EOT 16:39:08 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@ip186-c13.gl.digi.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:39:49 go revive #lispcafe.. I had joined it, peed in the corner, helped a noob that wondered in somehow, and no one else said anything in last 5 days 16:40:10 renault [~user@aigrette.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 16:40:22 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:41:07 -!- renault [~user@aigrette.labri.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 16:41:13 thank you for mentionioning that you urinated there! 16:41:55 Freenode washes the channels every night! 16:42:06 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:42:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:43:52 H4ns: it was an old russian joke reference, which is about a cheerful guy given silent treatment, so he goes "well since no one is apparently here, I'll take a leak" 16:44:11 *maxm-* goes back to coding, don't hit me 16:44:15 #lispcafe was explicitly founded by the blind to lead the blind, and such a difference in activity between it and #lisp can only be a good thing 16:44:45 can someone remind me what the key combination was to clear what's visible in my lisp REPL under emacs? 16:45:03 C-c M-o 16:45:04 The slime manual? 16:45:05 cmm: actually, I faintly remember telling three people having an off-topic discussion to go do that there, when the channel didn't exist yet. 16:45:19 madnificent: also, slime-repl-clear-buffer 16:45:29 sykopomp: thanks+thanks 16:45:45 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:45:47 -!- blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-45763eb0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:45:53 pjb: i couldn't find it for some reason. perhaps my ill brain looked over it. 16:46:11 *cmm* has always used erase-buffer 16:46:42 me too 16:46:54 Has anyone here used Lisp in any interesting way to frobnicate Hadoop? 16:47:01 it's the standard buffer-clearing protocol! 16:47:05 I think slime-repl-clear-buffer oughta be on a repl-shortcut 16:47:14 it is 16:47:17 C-c M-o 16:47:32 no i mean with e.g. cl-user> , 16:47:41 gigamonkey: no, but comparisons which i've ran indicated that it wasn't as fast as you'de expect. that was comparing processing power of java vs sbcl though. 16:47:59 madnificent: you mean you were doing Hadoop like things in SBCL? 16:47:59 ah 16:49:11 Or using SBCL to somehow create jobs to run on an actual Hadoop cluster? I'm more interested in the latter. 16:49:15 gigamonkey: i had to build a mapreduce algorithm for university. the overhead of reading/parsing the data from the files (which is required by hadoop) was so much overhead that it took a bunch of servers to get on the level of speed which you could get by creating a mapreduce algorithm in sbcl. 16:50:05 gigamonkey: no, i myself never ran hadoop, a friend of mine ran it on his machine (which was faster). however, hadoop does have a lot of performance optimization settings IIRC. 16:50:06 I see, I think. I guess the point of Hadoop is that its for when you have so much data that you pretty much have to have a cluster of machines and there's no way to do it all in memory. 16:50:34 FWIW in contrast to erase-buffer slime-repl-clear-buffer runs swank:clear-repl-variables on the hook which clears the values for *** ** * /// // / +++ ++ + 16:50:50 gigamonkey: actually, the complexity comes from having high redundancy to protect against hardware or network failure. 16:50:52 The thing about Hadoop is that the basic MapReduce primitives are pretty primitive so everyone uses something on top of it and then conses up some half-baked DSL to make that slightly less painful. 16:51:17 pkhuong: that too. Since when you're dealing with that much data chances are you're going to hit failures somewhere along the way. 16:51:20 If you *only* need distributed map/reduce, you can do that pretty easily (as bash-reduce shows). 16:52:14 gigamonkey: and i noticed that working without the odd writing and all made it more than 10 times faster. so you need *a lot* of data when you're going the hadoop way. it makes sense if you do have it though. 16:52:52 that was for a typical pagerank algorithm 16:52:55 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:54:04 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:04 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:54:04 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:55:18 madnificent: so I'm dealing with data that starts with, say, every hit on an Etsy web server, ever. 16:55:49 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:56:26 -!- sellout_ [~rooms@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Rooms  iPhone IRC Client  http://www.roomsapp.mobi] 16:56:37 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-htlzqtsrymgjsmoh] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:56:38 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:56:57 Why isn't the data already in the servers? 16:56:59 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:57:16 Google doesn't send its whole inverse database with each mapreduce request! 16:58:11 agam [~agam@c-67-188-3-174.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:37 xcpu made for interesting map/reduce solution, as you could pipe data between nodes 16:59:10 gigamonkey: how many hits is that? 16:59:57 one MILLION hits! 17:00:17 madnificent: actually, I don't know. But a lot. And then I'm slicing and dicing in ways that expands it into many tuples per hit. 17:01:13 gigamonkey: my mapreduce framework is half-assed but it could be replicable over distributed nodes. i'm just trying to say that hadoop didn't impress me at all and that using lisp might be better at handling that amount of data. i wouldn't be surprised if a combination of manardb and a minor distribution system would put you a lot further. plus: in hadoop you get the strings, not nice objects and methods to work with. 17:01:38 bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 17:01:38 -!- sacho_ is now known as sacho 17:01:57 madnificent: yeah, at that level it's moot. We've got a large stack already built on top of Hadoop and EMR. It's unlikely that's going to change. 17:01:58 (with 'could be' i mean: it could probably be adapted so it starts doing that) 17:02:16 I'm just interested in (maybe) putting a better top-layer on the stack. 17:02:18 -!- Dan23 [~Dan@c-76-118-198-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:02:20 gigamonkey: ah, that changes everything. i don't have more information to help you, sadly. 17:02:58 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:03:02 mathrick [~mathrick@ip186-c13.gl.digi.pl] has joined #lisp 17:04:58 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:58 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:04:59 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:05:13 -!- megamind [~Nevermind@123.16.232.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:26 whee, googlecode.com is rejecting my svn requests 17:06:21 ynniv [~ynniv@c-76-23-252-81.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:32 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:55 *sigh* took another swat at OpenGenera on x86_64. Anyone have any experience with it? 17:09:08 sellout_ [~rooms@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:00 Xach: you're sending too many of them with quicklisp? 17:10:11 ynniv: yes. I don't think it's worth it, though 17:10:28 ynniv: start by finding an ancient amd64 linux 17:10:40 (and run it in VM) 17:10:42 it works better on older ones? 17:10:51 madnificent: I suspect it's just a google problem. 17:11:15 I have ubuntu 11.10 running up to the point where genera reads the date from the local host 17:11:19 Can you check out http://html-entities.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ ? 17:11:27 then it just sits at a white screen for hours+ 17:11:54 ynniv: requires some old libs, newer X.Org breaks it first on protocol, even newer versions on libs (which result in blank white screen) 17:12:13 I think I used Ubuntu from 2006 or so 17:12:22 that's rather helpful, I will try that 17:13:03 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:13:26 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.38.185.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:13:52 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-47-223.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 17:13:58 Xach: svn co worked on that url, yes 17:14:01 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:14:32 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-252-155.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:52 Perhaps it was temporary. Works for me now, too. 17:15:34 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:15:56 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:56 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:15:56 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:15:57 madnificent: so I'm running a job now on one day's worth of activity that starts with 30G of input data and the first map step expands that to about 260G. 17:16:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@ip186-c13.gl.digi.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:17:02 gigamonkey: that's fun! 17:17:25 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:17:34 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-120-19.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:17:49 gigamonkey: it'll depend on the keywords for reducing then. :) 17:18:06 and to how much data it will reduce 17:19:11 wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has joined 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has joined #lisp 18:06:32 pspace [~andrew@d118-75-188-8.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:42 -!- BountyX [~andrew@d118-75-188-8.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:06:50 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 18:08:23 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.148.207.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:10:01 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:23 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.160.223.45] has joined #lisp 18:11:01 sacho_ [~sacho@87-126-33-59.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 18:12:03 gigamonkey: if you turn out writing something for connecting lisp to Hadoop, you'll get something about it on plo or github, right? 18:13:33 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:13:59 -!- tensorpudding__ [~michael@99.160.222.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:14:00 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-33-59.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:15:43 eno 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[~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:27:18 docAvid [~user@74-94-233-157-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:26 urandom_ [~user@p548A33C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:11 drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has joined #lisp 18:31:18 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:31:28 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:32:06 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:07 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:32:07 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:32:22 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2F25.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:32:53 zzo38 [~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com] has joined #lisp 18:33:33 Do you know how to combine Lisp and Haskell and a few other things? 18:34:38 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-97-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:35:14 with pipes 18:35:30 _0bitcount [~0bitcount@213.37.53.233.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:35:52 g32k1 [~g32k1@189.157.1.148] has joined #lisp 18:35:58 and unholy rites 18:36:04 in fact, forget the pipes 18:36:04 preferably pipes with some sort of psychotropic substance in them. 18:36:11 leave the pipes 18:37:43 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:37:50 tensorpudding__ [~michael@99.32.57.246] has joined #lisp 18:38:29 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.14.79] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 18:39:27 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.109.54] has joined #lisp 18:40:44 there's no way to combine lisp and haskell 18:40:48 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.160.223.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:41:11 it's like oil and water 18:41:15 http://www.liskell.org/ springs from my mind and right out of the channel 18:41:15 RPC? but then your whole universe could implode 18:42:13 Xach: I did some work on that and it was okay, but due to the fact that macros don't run in the IOMonad (despite the liskell docs saying they do) it's not possible to implement gensym 18:42:31 and the macros are unhygenic 18:42:38 isn't liskell just s-exp notation for regular haskell? 18:43:08 jasom: unsafePerformIO freshName ;) 18:43:29 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:43:57 tomodo: yes, but really a defining characteristic of lisp is that you code directly in the parse tree, which makes metaprograming tractible 18:44:29 pkhuong: that would probably work. I didn't know about unsafePerformIO whenever it was I was hacking on liskell 18:45:03 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:03 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:45:03 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:47:04 untrusted [~user@stgt-5f71a655.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:23 Kron__ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 18:48:16 tomodo: really any language with the syntax being s-expressions that are parsed into a first-class type in the language (e.g. cons), and the whole language being available at read,compile, and run time, and first-class functions is arguably a lisp. 18:49:09 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:43 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:51:20 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 18:51:23 Hmm, is "bigit" common terminology to refer to an underlying component of a bignum? 18:51:30 *Xach* sees it for the first time today 18:52:02 Yeah, the term pops up in papers and code I've seen, at least. 18:52:23 "bignum digit", as I'm sure everyone knows. 18:53:16 Thanks. 18:54:43 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:55:15 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 18:56:01 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:01 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2188F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:56:01 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:56:01 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:56:35 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:57:07 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:57:29 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:39 JonL wrote a paper about bignum implementation; it's behind the ACM paywall, but the paper's terms allow copying, so I could send it to you if you happen to be interested. http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=319861 18:57:40 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:58:28 Paywalls are such an antiquated concept. 18:58:53 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:00:10 especially for science publication 19:00:51 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:01:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:01:14 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:14 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:01:15 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:01:24 pnq [~nick@ACA2188F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:56 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.14.79] has joined #lisp 19:04:11 rme: Thanks for the offer. Was just trying to see if I was dealing with shared jargon something one person made up. 19:05:37 p_l: that was the magic! Starts up on ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS 19:05:47 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:06:14 Is the "g" in "bigit" hard or soft? 19:06:18 Liskell is very much similar to what I had in mind; but also very different. For example I wanted both hygienic and unhygienic macros, as well as macros like Template Haskell, and C-like macros. I had something written, many things are different to both Haskell and Lisp, such as typeclasses, mathematical laws, and other stuff. 19:07:28 Odin-: a lot of antiquated stuff merily continue existing 19:08:01 docAvid: I use a hard g, but the word doesn't often come up in conversation. 19:08:25 fe[nl]ix: Old is not the same as antiquated. Once you make the distinction, there's surprisingly little. :) 19:08:41 And my preference coding the example there is: fact n = bool (n * fact (pred n)) 1 (n == 0); Or: fact 0 = 1; fact n = n * fact (pred n); 19:09:30 docAvid: yeah, I could see it being pronounced as "bigot" 19:10:07 albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:08 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:10:08 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 19:10:18 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 19:10:19 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:10:45 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2188F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:10:47 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 19:10:58 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 19:12:15 -!- untrusted [~user@stgt-5f71a655.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 19:12:21 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.14.79] has left #lisp 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20:06:26 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:06:26 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 20:06:41 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:10:32 -!- cle [~gusgus@pool-71-251-116-70.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:11:30 -!- Riz_Lappy [~Riz_Lapto@adsl-75-57-166-85.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:51 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2188F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:14:03 mathrick [~mathrick@176.97.27.149] has joined #lisp 20:15:04 is there a format directive which lets me print a float with 2 numbers after the comma and an E component which is a multiple of 3? ie: 124.43e6 or 1.20e3 20:15:42 that seems terribly specific 20:15:49 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@c-76-23-252-81.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ynniv] 20:15:59 seems like something that FORMAT would have, though. 20:16:07 isn't that "eng" notation in calculator speak? 20:16:17 H4ns: could be 20:16:21 the "multiple of 3" bit seems a bit unlikely 20:16:26 BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.9.105] has joined #lisp 20:16:37 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-032-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:16:48 Ralith: not at all. my ti58 calculator used to have that, and it is very useful 20:16:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.245.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:17:02 H4ns: your ti58 calculator is not cl:format :P 20:17:11 Ralith: the multiple of 3 being kilo, mega, milli micro and the like. 20:17:11 Riz_Lappy [~Riz_@adsl-75-57-166-85.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:22 Ralith: right. i'd consider cl to be a strict superset. 20:17:41 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.187.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:45 yes, I understand the rationale 20:17:47 -!- tensorpudding__ is now known as tensorpudding 20:17:51 madnificent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering_notation 20:18:04 that doesn't mean I expect cl:format to have it. 20:18:24 madnificent: at the very least, there's a link to a perl module there for it ;) 20:19:06 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 20:19:18 great, that, trivial-shell and you are good to go! 20:19:34 no cl-perl? :( 20:20:18 sykopomp: aha, that might explain my bias. still, think there must be a way. i'm reading through the tilde directives but i'm not hitting it. 20:20:44 i was (and am still) surprised that ~$ doesn't it 20:20:50 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-27.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:20:53 (with some optional arguments) 20:20:56 ~$ is for monies 20:21:08 madnificent: one wonders, when looking into this sort of thing, whether it would have been easier to just write a function. 20:21:17 H4ns: yes, and it's handy for monies 20:21:18 ^ 20:21:25 -!- _0bitcount [~0bitcount@213.37.53.233.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:21:35 madnificent: i find it handy for dollars only 20:21:40 but it's annoying when you write a function and it turns out CL had it built-in. 20:21:55 sykopomp: 'no' (but honoustly: probably) 20:22:05 if CL has it, it will be bugfree (TM) 20:22:38 madnificent: more text has been spent discussing the matter on IRC than required code. 20:22:39 pnq [~nick@ACA2188F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:50 but yeah 20:22:55 well that's always the case 20:22:57 code is very meaning-dense 20:23:00 english tends not to be 20:23:17 IRC text just tends to be dense. 20:23:17 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449092.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:23:43 or at least its authors do. 20:24:09 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF6A51.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 20:24:32 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:24:41 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FC0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:25:33 mensch [~mensch@c-67-189-240-148.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:47 colonel_panic [~Adium@adsl-99-36-220-229.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:08 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 20:27:09 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:27:42 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129082206.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 20:27:52 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 20:29:00 well, i've done my best searching further for it and i can't find anything in the CLHS hinting to it being possible. so i'm affraid i will have to roll my own. is there a way for extending format with my own directive? or must i build a function and call it? 20:29:12 -!- colonel_panic [~Adium@adsl-99-36-220-229.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:29:32 madnificent: ~/ allows you to do that 20:29:59 *madnificent* searches for that 20:30:45 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 20:30:59 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 20:31:06 madnificent: why do you want to use format? Are you passing format strings around? 20:32:03 Ralith: no, but i'd still prefer it to be in one format string, which takes care of the output. it may well be changed to a format string which is passed around though 20:32:09 H4ns: got it, thanks! 20:34:35 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 20:39:14 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-150-205.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:41:43 Guh... not finding clojure easy to grok from a CL perspective. java exceptions and hung repls oh my! 20:42:03 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2188F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:42:17 do people outside of clojure community see this as the future of lisp? 20:43:25 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA058E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:43:35 mostly not, afaict. 20:43:40 pnq [~nick@ACA2188F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:42 I see quicklisp as the future of Lisp. 20:43:59 a lot of people seem to see it as critically lacking lispiness. 20:45:59 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:46:32 -!- mgodshall [~quassel@76.161.200.249] has quit [Quit: gurgle gurgle] 20:46:47 Yeah... hard to define what that is, but it is lacking it. 20:47:17 too many {}, just like all the other non-Lisps. 20:47:29 -!- venk is now known as vpit3833 20:47:59 and [] 20:48:00 I just ignorantly tried to do a simple map and hung the repl on my first try. 20:48:18 and anything it doesn't understand raises this "java" exception thing? 20:48:21 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:48:34 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:48:37 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.23.124.235] has joined #lisp 20:49:01 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.160.223.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:21 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA058E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:25 I am optimistic about Clojure and I'm enjoying following its developement. 20:51:19 apparently you would do it as: (map #(* %1 %1) [1 2 3 4]) 20:51:26 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA058E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:51:31 *j_king* shudders. 20:54:08 common lisp is outside of the time bubble, it knows no future, nor past. unless you use local-time ofc. 20:55:07 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2188F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:55:09 The probjem with clojure is that it's so bound up with java. You can't really learn clojure as a language on its own. 20:55:17 or at least I couldn't :p 20:55:57 Yeah, I think there's a project to get it on the .NET CLR -- so there might be some future where it's a standard and not an implementation 20:56:38 I dunno what the fuss is. I guess it's the shiny factor and rich's persuasive feature arguments. 20:56:47 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@100.Red-88-11-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 20:56:53 Well, the CLR is a copy of the Java VM and standard class set anyway... 20:56:53 however 20:57:05 if you do have to work with the JVM, the interop is good. 20:57:43 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA058E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:59 though I did poke through abcl first. ;) 20:58:27 afaict the problem with clojure is that it is very syntax-heavy 20:58:45 well it has a lot of sugar built into the reader 20:58:59 -!- tensorpudding_ is now known as tensorpudding 20:59:20 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:00:00 like the lambda syntax. you can just use (fn) but there's reader syntax for #() which is more idiomatic in clj land 21:00:10 davlap [~davlap@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:23 yes, that's the point 21:00:29 *j_king* nods. 21:00:39 it's quirky and requires becoming familiar with them. 21:00:42 having reader extensions for everything is contrary to the lisp paradigm 21:00:56 it sounds like most these aren't even reader macros, but full-on hardcoded synta. 21:00:57 most of* 21:01:02 syntax* 21:01:14 *j_king* nods 21:02:58 -!- fukushim_ [~fukushima@z176.58-98-148.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:03:01 clojure isn't very exciting. 21:03:01 let's talk about Lisp. 21:03:33 good idea 21:03:45 yes. is there already a libevent binding? 21:03:52 there's iolib. 21:04:41 *sykopomp* was thinking of trying to write libevent bindings. 21:05:00 I thought the only reason you didn't like iolib was because it depended on an external lib? 21:05:24 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384128.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:44 one that isn't readily available across platforms. libevent is pretty standard, I think. 21:05:51 and you most likely already have it. 21:06:01 still not ideal, though 21:06:22 plus, iolib does other stuff I'm not interested in, and libevent would provide windows support, as well. 21:06:35 iirc libevent's windows support is quite weak. 21:07:00 it only implements a select backend, and select on win32 is even worse than select on linux. 21:07:35 it has IOCP support. I think that's the high-performance one for windows, no? 21:07:36 well.. home time. will prolly mess with that heroku cl recipe. 21:07:49 that's correct. 21:07:50 and maybe iolib/libevent musings. 21:07:54 and at odds with what I last read about libevent. 21:07:56 -!- ckairaba [~ckairaba@39.104.100.84.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:58 *Ralith* doublechecks 21:08:01 - 21:08:23 Ralith: what I read said that you have to write your code a little differently if you're going to use IOCP instead of select() 21:08:27 but it still supports it. 21:08:35 you just gotta go through these buffer things. 21:09:16 "Bufferevents on Windows can use a new mechanism (off-by-default; see below) to send their data via Windows overlapped IO 21:09:25 ... Unfortunately, the main Windows backend is still select()-based" 21:09:43 can you implement everything you need to with bufferevents alone, whatever those are? 21:11:46 there was an example in their book that did that. 21:11:51 I didn't look further. 21:12:05 a full http server? 21:12:32 no, they didn't implement a full http server in their example 21:12:35 just socket interactions. 21:12:57 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 21:13:25 -!- ngz [~user@244.235.75.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:13:42 bodes well, I suppose 21:14:04 beware that you'll want libevent2, which is not as widely packaged as one might hope. 21:14:10 I'm thinking of just trying it out and comparing. 21:14:20 why libevent2? 21:15:04 it's the one with iocp support. 21:15:15 and a not-terrible API. 21:18:03 k 21:19:28 libevent1 was pretty bad, which is what spawned libev 21:21:16 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed 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jlaire [~jlaire@80-248-244-51.cust.suomicom.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:39:12 jlaire [~jlaire@80-248-244-51.cust.suomicom.fi] has joined #lisp 22:39:19 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:43:28 rboyd [~rboyd@c-68-54-222-187.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:05 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has joined #lisp 22:45:12 ebw [~user@krlh-5f723856.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:22 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-67-189-240-148.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:45:37 tr-808_ [brambles@79.133.200.49] has joined #lisp 22:45:39 -!- asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:46:43 -!- tr-808_ [brambles@79.133.200.49] has quit [Client Quit] 22:46:44 Why can't I call (make-instance 'gtk:box :orientation :vertical) with cl-gtk2-gtk? If it doesn't belong in this chat, please give pointers, where cl-gtk2-gtk might be discussed. 22:47:23 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:48:11 ebw: This isn't a great or terrible place 22:48:15 ebw: what happens when you try? 22:48:28 I haven't used cl-gtk2-gtk, so I might not be able to help if the answer is tricky. 22:49:00 tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 22:49:03 Xach some sort of memory violation, mom I reproduce the error message 22:49:10 ouch 22:49:26 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:49:47 ebw: pastebin it 22:52:54 -!- sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:18 See here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128325 22:53:33 package definition not provided, sorry 22:53:44 just elide the sudokusolver:: in repl 22:54:01 you must (require 'cl-gtk2-gtk) of course 22:54:10 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xrinssxmymkweltx] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:54:40 'gtk:v-box is working as expected, but gtk:box should work with a settable :orientation ... 22:56:41 ravster [~user@184.175.28.107] has joined #lisp 22:56:45 Hello everyone 22:57:11 ebw: are you sure the box type exists in the version of gtk you are linking against? 22:57:19 I vaguely recall something about it having been removed. 22:59:15 Ralith: Ahh it is still there even in gtk3. If I use glade to click together a ui and use c-code to drive it, GtkBox is there. 22:59:35 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-68-41-30-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:59:37 what about gtk2? 22:59:38 ebw: can u create and inspect every one of those components on the repl? 22:59:43 which one is cl-gtk2 linking? 23:00:26 But I'm not quite sure if the slot is there, as gtk:box should inherit it from gtk:orientable, but they are messing around with meta-classes and closer-mop, so I can't be sure. 23:00:39 Ralith gtk2 23:00:50 Ralith and GtkBox is still there to 23:00:53 does gtk2 haeve GtkBox? 23:00:55 er 23:00:56 kay 23:00:58 dunno then! 23:01:37 Farzad: No, (make-instance 'gtk:box :orientation :vertical) gives the error straight. 23:02:15 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xharcsiqjyfmweof] has joined #lisp 23:04:11 Farzad: (make-instance 'gtk:box) gives the error straight. The :orientation isn't really necessary. 23:06:23 Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has joined #lisp 23:06:45 ebw C-c C-d C-d the gtk:box see what it is really 23:07:52 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-48-223.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 23:07:54 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:11:07 Farzad Okay gtk:box symbol BOX names the gobject-class ... as expected and analog gtk:v-box (which works) ... so I don't know what you tried telling me? 23:13:13 ebw: just making sure it's not some abstract class or something... 23:14:06 Farzad: Ah, ok. 23:14:25 Thank's I will continue this on cl-gtk2-devel mailing list 23:14:29 *ebw* needs sleep. 23:14:49 -!- ebw [~user@krlh-5f723856.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 23:15:00 Icon_ [~mzyo@ppp95-165-53-213.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 23:17:23 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:18:28 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.120.152.162] has joined #lisp 23:19:05 iwillig [~iwillig@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:54 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:24:06 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-158-42.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:01 -!- pbgc [~pbgc@2.81.175.98] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 23:27:27 -!- solussd [~solussd@rrcs-76-79-44-2.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: solussd] 23:32:33 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@164-177-151-185.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:34:55 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has joined #lisp 23:37:17 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129082206.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:37:23 -!- g32k1 [~g32k1@189.157.1.148] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:29 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:42:27 -!- davlap [~davlap@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 23:42:48 davlap [~davlap@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:04 -!- davlap [~davlap@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:44:28 davlap [~davlap@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:26 -!- davlap [~davlap@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:46:12 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 23:47:31 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.120.152.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:20 wuj [~wuj@207-237-2-224.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:52:54 wyan [~wyan@92.243.10.205] has joined #lisp 23:55:38 cle [~Gus@pool-71-251-116-70.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:32 'hi-there 23:57:33 wyan: hi 23:59:16 :hello