00:00:06 Right, I'll shut up :-) 00:00:25 mveety [~mveety@clsm-74-47-119-124-pppoe.dsl.clsm.epix.net] has joined #lisp 00:00:26 stassats`: oh, i had it backwards, it does ub-32 00:00:33 stassats`: and some other, iirc, only does sb-32 00:01:03 rswarbrick, I'd just say "In some implementations, the make-array call might [...]".. being vague here has its benefits (e.g., such implementations may optimize for something else than you intended) 00:01:52 Right. By making a generic array? That seems a strange optimisation. 00:01:58 Meh, whatever. 00:02:28 I'm off to bed. And I'll swear at CLG's crazy type system tomorrow. 00:02:43 -!- mveety [~mveety@clsm-74-47-119-124-pppoe.dsl.clsm.epix.net] has left #lisp 00:02:46 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 00:03:03 how many gtk+2 bindings are out there? 00:03:23 (because it turns out that (deftype blah (vector integer)) triggered some code that makes foreign integers when calling through to the ffi. *sigh* 00:03:36 Well, 3 or 4 years ago, CLG was by far the most promising. 00:03:42 rswarbrick, in the world of compiler implementors, "optimization" has a much wider meaning... e.g., you can optimize for simplicity of implementation 00:03:55 adeht: Yep. I'd call that less enthusiastic. 00:04:12 It has bitrotted spectacularly since, but I wanted to get it working again with new SBCL / Gtk. 00:04:20 It's now most of the way there... 00:05:04 rswarbrick: cool 00:05:16 The plan is to get things working and then move to using closer-mop etc. to get rid of some of the hacky #+clisp #+foo everywhere. 00:05:32 And CFFI, I suspect. 00:05:34 when do you plan to port it to Qt? 00:05:49 Well, as a keen gnome user, this is unlikely to happen :-) 00:06:01 The Gtk3 HTML5 backend they're writing though... 00:07:19 well, IME I have tried cl-gtk2 and cl-cairo I was generally unhappy with them. 00:08:45 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@181.28.178.241] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev] 00:09:01 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@181.28.178.241] has joined #lisp 00:09:37 daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 00:11:16 wuj_ [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:07 -!- wuj_ [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:12:19 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 00:12:23 wuj_ [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:39 Night, all. 00:12:52 -!- wuj_ [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:12:53 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has left #lisp 00:13:23 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@31.163.216.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:21 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:15:47 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:15:54 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:17:10 foiled by (count #'test sequence) always return 0 despite increasing the size of sequence 00:19:45 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has joined #lisp 00:22:23 ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:22:43 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 00:23:28 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:23 -!- ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:24:52 rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has joined #lisp 00:25:19 anyone know what character encoding (if any in particular) SBCL's native-namestring uses? 00:27:57 -!- Fare [Adium@nat/google/x-pvixxhmtjuebdpew] has left #lisp 00:29:24 It returns a lisp string, doesn't it? If so, encoding doesn't really enter into the picture, does it? 00:29:46 er, right. 00:30:06 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:30:13 no, let me phrase that question differently. 00:30:48 nah, fuck it, pathnames are broken anyway. 00:32:33 ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:33:45 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:33:55 but yeah, what I'm really concerned about is how the pathname was created (in the case of DIRECTORY or the like, where it had to decode something into a lisp string) 00:34:13 default-external-format, i imagine 00:34:24 yeah. 00:34:54 -!- ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:35:18 sloppy, sloppy. 00:36:42 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 00:37:27 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-81-228.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:36 Xach: herep 00:38:28 hi gigamonkey 00:38:39 ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:39:13 -!- ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:39:49 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:39:54 Well, I never. 00:40:05 argh, xcvb is busted 00:40:29 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:41:04 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-8-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:44 Just wanted to say again how much I appreciate Quicklisp. I installed Lisp on my work machine today ('cause, you never know) and it was just a matter of download SBCL, download QL and go. 00:42:08 ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:42:35 It did occur to me that perhaps the ql slime helper should give you a few options to put in your .emacs if you want, say slime-fancy and slime-asdf (and I like slime-banner). 00:42:49 Mostly because most newbies are going to want at least some of those. 00:43:19 gigamonkey: it does do slime-fancy by default 00:43:25 gigamonkey: the other stuff is good 00:43:26 Eh? 00:43:29 i mean, a good idea 00:43:34 Slime does or QL does? 00:44:00 gigamonkey: quicklisp-slime-helper's helper file does (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) 00:44:06 That could be something more customized 00:44:24 Slime Fancy should totally be a lisp magazine 00:44:30 Ah, I see. Is that file downloaded or written locally? 00:44:48 *hefner* is stressing over how to represent paths from the filesystem, again. 00:45:24 -!- ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:45:26 Or maybe: is there any way to ask a few questions during the install of the slime helper and then put different things in its file? 00:45:41 just use one of the wrapper libs, cl-fad and i thought iolib also had path abstraction module? 00:45:52 hefner: why are you stressing about that? 00:46:09 gigamonkey: i'll have to think about it 00:46:27 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-153-19.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:27 gigamonkey: prompting, i'm not sure. show & tell might be easier 00:46:38 Well, as long as a vanilla install gets slime-fancy we're probably good. 00:47:19 yeah, i think it is not good that slime-repl is not in the default configuration. 00:47:36 so i made fancy the default in quicklisp-slime-helper 00:47:47 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:48:58 you should probably at least say something (for power users) about where they should put a call to slime-setup if they want to do it themselves? 00:49:09 Hi gigamonkey 00:49:20 I just threw one in my .emacs, not realizing there's one in the slime-helper file. 00:49:30 Probably, by chance, mine is evaluated later so it wins which is what Iwant. 00:49:32 gigamonkey: it's easy to write something I'm confident will work, or it's easy to write something that can interoperate with other CL libraries and the built-in file functions, but how to achieve both isn't obvious to me just now. 00:49:33 Sgeo_: hello. 00:50:17 hefner: interoperability wise you stuck with pathnames, as no one library emerged as winner 00:51:58 cl-pathnames and interoperability, sounds funny 00:52:14 *maxm-* would just be happy if library with exact copies of emacs filename API would becomes standard. Ie file-name-as-directory, file-name-directory, file-name-extension, file-name-nondirectory, file-name-absolute-p, expand-file-name etc 00:52:31 the merge-pathnames being used for all of the above is abomination 00:53:02 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:53:15 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-81-228.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:53:34 but at least its mostly working abomination, altho I always feel exhausted dealing with it 00:54:39 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:54:53 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:02 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:23 ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:59:15 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-107-035-184.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:00:29 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:10 if I used more than a handful of CL libraries, this would be really annoying. 01:01:26 -!- kai_ [~kai@f052101203.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:02:41 -!- zophy [~zophy@ipv6postoffice.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:15 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-24-223-21.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:46 actually, the question I originally meant to ask is whether there's any particular way native-namestrings should be converted back to C strings to guarantee they'll work with the posix functions 01:04:27 Are there any macros to make CL act like a Lisp-1? 01:04:35 i thought whole idea of native-namestring is that its compatible to be passed around into underlaying OS? 01:04:59 CCL has a macro with-filename-cstrs for that. http://ccl.clozure.com/ccl-documentation.html#pathname-namestrings 01:05:37 maxm-: that's a good theory, but a lisp string isn't a C string. 01:05:51 doh, native-namestring isn't a standard.. I thought it was 01:06:11 (sb-ext:native-namestring) I meant 01:06:12 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:07:44 *Xach* is not going to swing a quicklisp update tonight 01:08:34 Sgeo_: what do you want to do/have/use 01:09:06 madnificent, not really thinking about use-cases right now. Although I guess I am thinking it might be more convenient in some places. 01:09:28 Hmm, I had a thought. A macro that turns expressions that might return a function into funcalls 01:09:38 Unless it's a variable name, in which case it doesn't 01:10:00 Would be easier than doing more of a Lisp-1 thing, I think. 01:10:32 That is, ((alexandria:compose #'1+ #'1+) 5) turns into (funcall (alexandria:compose #'1+ #'1+) 5) 01:10:48 But storing the compose in a variable and using it without a funcall wouldn't work 01:11:04 are you allergic to funcall or something? 01:11:24 -!- ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ddp] 01:12:09 -!- ngz [~user@69.205.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:12:35 once exposed to scheme, road to recovery is long and trecherous, but with much support, and encouragement, most people make it 01:12:43 i'm not entirely sure which functions of a lisp 1 you want, but https://github.com/madnificent/function-namespace may be of interest for what you're trying to implement. for lambda (( works btw: ((lambda (a b) (+ a b)) 1 2) 01:13:25 maxm-, I still think Scheme is a better language but a fragmented community scares me away. 01:13:27 maxm-: that sounds like scheme is a better language than lisp... a bit like taking meth feels better than not taking it, or so i've heard. 01:13:36 lisp-oneness is not exactly what makes Scheme different from CL 01:13:39 As well as lack of comfortably altering programs as they run 01:13:55 Sgeo_: isn't that similar in both lisp and scheme? 01:14:46 madnificent, don't know 01:15:12 i'm puzzled... then why do you make that statement? 01:15:19 scheme lacks practicality, one requirement for writing useful software 01:15:24 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-8-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:15:36 also no CLOS, so one is forced to reinvent it each time 01:15:59 adu [~ajr@64.134.101.55] has joined #lisp 01:16:02 maxm-, individual Schemes tend to have their own thing 01:16:08 Racket has an OO system, Chicken has a few 01:16:09 etc. 01:16:10 please, don't wake kibo 01:16:12 maxm-: it's called a library 01:16:13 But they're all different 01:16:13 oh crap 01:16:21 also no libs, also no good debugger, also no Slime/swank, also no normal macros, also you can't do (defun foo) and name your variables foo, which is horrible 01:16:35 please, no 01:16:45 mostly it's a bloody mess. Let's keep this channel CL 01:16:45 *maxm-* hides after flashing a trollface 01:16:55 Xach: haha. just look outside at the snow and zone out for a minute. it'll (hopefully) be all over by then. 01:18:46 -!- Sgeo_ [~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 01:18:49 Sgeo_ [~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:52 ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:18:57 Sgeo: you may be interested in http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Half-Baked/spiel/code.html 01:20:57 -!- ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:22:29 Guest33351 [~ivan@201.82.132.28] has joined #lisp 01:25:53 -!- ikki [~ikki@228-externo-1p5ec.vxn.itelcel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:29:54 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:30:46 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:31:18 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:49 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:59 -!- nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:36:11 nialo` [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:38 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:42 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 01:40:51 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2E85.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:43:55 otter-nmc [~brian.jon@wsip-24-234-67-220.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:32 icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has joined #lisp 01:48:17 -!- adu [~ajr@64.134.101.55] has quit [Quit: adu] 01:51:54 ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:52:43 -!- ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:56:08 "T and NIL are so basic to Lisp that if you ask a really dedicated Lisp 01:56:08 programmer a yes-or-no question, he may answer with T or NIL instead of 01:56:08 English. (Hey, Jack, want to go to dinner? NIL. I just ate.) 01:56:08 " 01:57:44 Sgeo_: and jokingly he'll tell you :no when he does want to. 01:58:01 hehe 01:58:31 really dedicated lisp programmers don't have friends to ask them to dinner 02:02:58 -!- pnq [~nick@AC816E4E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:03:44 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 02:04:34 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-165-252-158.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:06:25 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:06:28 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 02:07:08 -!- tswett is now known as WRISTWATCH_ZOMBI 02:07:22 -!- WRISTWATCH_ZOMBI is now known as tswett 02:08:18 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:26 When I call ((lambda it works, but when I store that lambda into a hash-table and bring it back, ((gethash :the-lambda table) args) doesn't work, why? 02:08:29 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:08:48 because you're doing it wrong 02:09:15 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:22 oh, you mean as the first element of a list? 02:09:33 well, that's because it's not valid Common Lisp 02:09:47 sie, because lambda is a special thing allowed to be at the front of a form like that 02:09:51 Use funcall otherwise 02:10:41 (funcall (gethash :the-lambda table) args) 02:10:51 Sgeo_: you could place everything in the function namespace for your lisp1 tryout. 02:10:51 Well, apply if args is a list of args to be given to the lambda. 02:11:23 but you'd still have to call... never mind 02:11:29 Args isn't a list, everything is fine. 02:12:38 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0E80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:13:03 or you can use a glorified hashtable called package, (setf (fdefinition 'the-lambda) (lambda ())) (the-lambda) 02:14:23 pnq [~nick@ACA210D4.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:38 ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:41 nepnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:47 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-54-155.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:15:22 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-54-155.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:15:22 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:17:14 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:45 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has quit [Quit: o/] 02:19:34 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-54-155.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:19:54 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:22:28 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-54-155.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:22:44 Is the hash table only way to get a nice key->value array? 02:23:01 no 02:23:16 What else is there? 02:23:23 plists and alists 02:23:42 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 02:24:54 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 02:25:00 wildnux_ [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:25:23 -!- nepnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:25:49 how can someone claim to be reading a beach book, with "tweeted from ipad", or do ipads have some kind of secret readingn in the sun technology nowadays? 02:26:13 how can someone post such blatant off-topic? 02:26:28 maxm-.... must.... talk... 02:26:29 do you know about parasols? 02:26:47 well it was tweeted by a guy who was supposed to be a lisp guy 02:27:29 adeht: screens must have really improved since I tried it 02:28:21 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 02:28:53 H4ns: I deserve to talk, I finished several large tasks, fixed a few tricky bugs, published useful stuff and generally been good 02:28:59 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 02:31:40 could also be sitting under a sun umbrella or something 02:31:47 but even then... 02:32:03 maxm-: M-x doctor 02:32:28 maxm-: make a twitter account or something 02:33:23 -!- Guest33351 [~ivan@201.82.132.28] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 02:33:59 ISF [~ivan@201.82.132.28] has joined #lisp 02:34:29 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.132.28] has quit [Client Quit] 02:35:04 ISF [~ivan@201.82.132.28] has joined #lisp 02:35:41 you all too uptight. some offtopic in slow times generates discussion, which leads to thinking -> ideas -> new stuff.. but anyway I get the hint 02:36:10 does it? it reminds some people to close the window. 02:37:21 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has quit [Quit: rme] 02:41:02 What's the fastest way to find the highest set bit in an integer? 02:41:41 do you know about a book called Hacker's Delight? 02:42:03 Modius: i'd use ash and a binomial search 02:42:08 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:42:28 clhs integer-length 02:42:32 ooh, or a bitshift 02:42:35 -!- icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:42:40 or you're hefner and you know a good answer 02:43:17 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.132.28] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 02:44:18 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:44:22 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:45:41 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:48:49 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483BC9F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:44 and1_ [~namtsui@c-67-164-94-142.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:54 -!- and1_ [~namtsui@c-67-164-94-142.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:50:28 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CE88.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:54:45 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:58 oh, neat, CCL supports memory-mapped files. amazing, the things you learn when you read the manual. 02:58:04 reading and writing manuals is generally underappreciated these days. 02:58:49 Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.237.89] has joined #lisp 02:59:14 could some one give me a piece of art ? 02:59:14 How hard can it be to make a half decent experimental subset of CL? 02:59:40 Sgeo_: what is "decent" in this context? 02:59:54 Usable for programming 02:59:58 very easy, (shadow t) (shadow nil) (defconstant t cl:nil) (defconstant nil cl:t) 03:00:38 H4ns: we were thaught to use design-by-contract in our school. perhaps it's something that should be stressed more often, it can do wonders for the use and creation of documentation. 03:01:41 i don't get it......why is boole-c2 the only function which works for qix in the demos, and boole-xor fails at only that one, and works for all else ...... 03:02:01 ISF [~ivan@201.82.132.28] has joined #lisp 03:02:08 neither x86 nor x86-64 do display any difference, things are drawn without color in qix 03:02:17 tho not in cmucl's clx 03:02:32 madnificent: the problem is that often the borders between application and infrastructure are not well established, and that there are good arguments for not documenting application code in the same way as infrastructure. 03:02:47 stassats, I want to implement a VM in a ... cruddy language 03:02:59 And run a decent language on it 03:03:31 when i use boole-xor nothing is drawn in qix, when i use boole-c2 i see the lines display in qix but no colors..... 03:04:08 -!- arrdem [~reid@resnet-45-180.dorm.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:04:27 so since both versions of sbcl (x86, x86-64) show the same behaviour it must be lisp code which is responsible for that.......telent clx ..... 03:04:58 Sgeo_: what for? 03:05:01 wait, i didn't try boole-c2 with cmucls yet 03:05:11 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:05:40 stassats, so that a decent language can run on that platform 03:05:42 (Second Life) 03:05:44 LSL sucks. 03:05:50 Ok, so I'm done open-sourcing the whole load of crap at https://github.com/Hexstream . It's a big fucking mess. (From the shit-nobody-cares-about dept.) 03:06:04 tho i fear somethings are broken in telent-clx..... 03:06:05 arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-54-191.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 03:06:21 (I should probably mention that most of the Loopless stuff is badly out of sync with my current vision...) 03:06:35 -!- Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.237.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:06:58 homie: that should all be done on the X side 03:07:22 yes, but even the background fails to switch to black like in cmucls when running qix..... 03:07:40 stassats, although quite frankly, I think of these projects and then never do them 03:08:14 Hexstream: let's critique it to the ground! 03:08:26 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-54-155.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:41 there's really no need to write "UNSUPPORTED. UNSTABLE. INCOMPLETE." 03:09:01 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-54-155.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:09:11 what is the right type specifier for objects which may be either nil or cons? 03:09:11 or functions implemented totally diferrent across both..... 03:09:22 madnificent: LIST 03:09:41 i read the info now for telent clx, i hope to get a hint ....... 03:09:46 stassats`: Well. I sort of want to go with a "tiered" system where I have "supported" projects, "unsupported" projects, and maybe some other categories like "incomplete". 03:10:06 stassats`: ah right! and say i'd want either nil or 1, how would i specify that? (i tried (or nil cons), but that didn't work for nil. 03:10:22 (or null (eql 1)) 03:11:31 ah, null. thanks! 03:11:49 And be able to give some guarantees like "All my supported projects have great documentation. And most of my unsupported projects don't have any." It's about setting expectations. Some of those "UNSUPPORTED. UNSTABLE. INCOMPLETE." don't even build. 03:12:56 -!- arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-54-191.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:13:25 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-54-155.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:14:17 Anyway, I should really start thinking about smart bulk-managing of projects. Right now I'm mostly trying to fit everything in my head + "paging to disk" and that's just a spectacular failure. I try to concentrate on one or just a few projects at a time but that just means inconsistencies develop and I just have no idea what the big picture is or what my priorities should be... What a shit. 03:14:27 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 03:15:40 Hexstream: you may want to read the book "getting things done", doesn't take much time. 03:16:13 is there a book "getting books read"? 03:16:29 I also now realize that trying to manage a boundary between "what I share publicly" and "what I keep for myself for now" is just a massive ton of unnecessary overhead... Oh, and btw I'll save 264$ a year on github fees. Woo! 03:16:42 there's "how to talk about books you haven't read", very useful 03:17:55 ok switching to boole-c2 on cmucl switches colors off for qix too.... 03:18:13 and switching back to boole-xor switches colors on there.... 03:18:16 not so in sbcl 03:18:33 and background issue remains..... 03:18:49 all background colors are black in cmucl, white in sbcl..... 03:19:17 indifferent of whether boole-c2 or boole-xor is used.... 03:19:53 at least for qix that holds, other demo examples like petal always exhibit some color behaviour.... 03:20:59 Hexstream: what one needs to focus the effort in organizing hacks/my-own-kitchen-sink type libs, is to have a practical project where you actually use all that stuff 03:21:19 So, the plan is that I'll majorly update my site to describe all the projects, for myself and others. Actually I'm thinking of using my site to help organise my stuff day-to-day, so it will always be up-to-date. And I'll put up "worknotes" there, like for the lispy-format stuff, like what I'm planning to do and stuff. Anyway, time to go to bed, cya. 03:21:20 i don't get the backgound one, cause background is set explicitly in the examples...... 03:21:35 maxm-: Yeah, my next big project is my website. I want a real website. 03:21:49 with animated gifs? 03:21:52 I'll dig up my old web framework stuff. 03:22:09 It was actually quite decent... 03:22:29 No, HTML5 and all. Bedtime. 03:22:30 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 03:22:37 am trying out ccl, any pointers how to set slime in it? downloaded quicklisp slime helper but can't figure out how to proceed 03:22:46 Hexstream: as a personal example, in large complicated systems with multiple threads and stuff, I found good logging is nessesary, so I focused my efforts on finishing up my logging lib 1st, before tons of other stuff that may be "cooler" but less nessesary 03:22:54 can you make animated "under construction" in HTML5? 03:23:05 and i even replaced telents clx with the other to check, the behaviour on the sbcl side is the same with both.... 03:23:25 so it must be again some sbcl issue rather..... 03:23:29 why are you using telent clx? 03:23:53 i said i used both.... 03:23:59 stassats: You can even make it flash 03:24:02 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f71e967.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:18 both as in? 03:24:23 wait, which one is quicklisp repo providing ? 03:24:58 don't know, i'm using http://common-lisp.net/~crhodes/clx 03:25:13 yeah, that's telent 03:25:30 he did patch it or so.... 03:25:51 so i used cmucls own one in sbcl, temporarily.... 03:25:59 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f7341c2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:26:00 well, it's not called telent anymore 03:26:01 to see if it makes any difference, but it does not.... 03:26:08 ok 03:27:55 there're so many versions of CLX it's scary 03:28:14 it must be some bug on sbcl side, when it hinders the acceptance of the one provided background value...... 03:28:16 better just to forget about it 03:28:39 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@164-177-151-185.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:29:08 for example.... 03:29:24 the color issue is maybe on clx side, i don't know.... 03:29:28 i don't think anyone is following you 03:30:04 think what you want you are free! 03:30:09 a free burger! 03:30:17 lol 03:30:28 -!- snits [~snits@75-167-2-163.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:30:47 i'd rather not read your out of context monologues about CLX 03:30:58 whatever... 03:31:19 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:32:47 RomyRomy [~stickycak@dyn-160-39-140-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 03:33:50 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-153-19.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:34:11 ignore the haters, but unless you find fellow clx hacker you on your own 03:34:28 yep, thank you maxm 03:34:35 i know....i'll see 03:34:45 if you found reproducible example of something being different between cmucl an sbcl, I would do tcpdump of the protocol and see what is the difference in requests they send 03:35:00 oh 03:35:12 or put trace/logging on clx's where it puts stuff into the socket, ie card32, card16 etc.. 03:35:33 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-153-19.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:46 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:35:58 well, i hope i can do that.... thanks again 03:36:30 google "x11 protocol dumping" there seems to be some tools that would record the session for you 03:37:02 oh cool, that will make it a little easier then... i hope.... 03:37:42 maxm-: good idea, though I bet that stuff is inlined 03:38:14 -!- wildnux_ [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:39:00 leo2007 [~leo@111.194.103.246] has joined #lisp 03:39:12 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:39:43 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:46 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@dyn-160-39-140-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 03:41:13 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:42:19 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:54 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA210D4.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 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[~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:27:54 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:31:03 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 05:36:29 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has joined #lisp 05:42:27 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.194.103.246] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.94.1] 05:42:58 -!- inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279436950.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:44:05 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:48:45 zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:51:22 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 05:52:22 Is there a default clause for CASE? I thought it was otherwise... 05:53:00 pnathan: it is. or t. 05:53:38 Unph. Hm. okay. Thanks. 05:55:07 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 05:55:50 TinhTienMau [~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35] has joined #lisp 05:56:27 -!- TinhTienMau [~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:57:33 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.58.205] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:57:44 TinhTienMau [~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35] has joined #lisp 05:57:47 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:59:36 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 06:00:41 wakeup_ [~wakeup@p5DE8D5F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:47 -!- kruft [~user@c-98-214-105-38.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:06 -!- TinhTienMau [~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:03:48 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p57A57E3F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:04:27 TinhTienMau [~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35] has joined #lisp 06:06:26 -!- TinhTienMau [~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35] has left #lisp 06:11:14 TinhTienMau [~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35] has joined #lisp 06:11:25 -!- TinhTienMau [~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35] has quit [Client Quit] 06:11:42 TinhTienMau [~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35] has joined #lisp 06:12:32 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:13:40 -!- TinhTienMau [~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35] has left #lisp 06:14:45 TinhTienMau [~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35] has joined #lisp 06:15:53 -!- meric [~Eric@124-168-146-237.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: meric] 06:16:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-81.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:16:43 -!- TinhTienMau [~ghkhghffd@117.3.200.35] has left #lisp 06:17:21 drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:06 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 06:19:00 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:20:28 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:15 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 06:21:18 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 06:22:37 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:22:51 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23:25 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:37 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 06:24:46 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:25:33 maxm-: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puvaw-unW24 06:26:21 teggi [~teggi@123.21.170.206] has joined #lisp 06:28:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-036.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:28:48 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:30:39 -!- Vicfred [~Futaba@189.228.27.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:35:03 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.166.92] has joined #lisp 06:40:30 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 06:44:42 sigi-ntb_ [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 06:47:42 -!- wakeup_ [~wakeup@p5DE8D5F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:47:46 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8D5F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:47 ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:49:20 -!- ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 06:49:57 Mekanik [~vov@ppp91-79-52-247.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:54:24 zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-165-27.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 06:56:09 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-45763eb0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:32 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.68] has joined #lisp 07:00:04 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763eb0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:00:22 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449035.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:02:35 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:08:41 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.166.92] has left #lisp 07:08:43 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:09:44 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:13:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:14:28 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.132.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:16:24 -!- niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has quit [Ping timeout: 608 seconds] 07:16:47 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:18:46 -!- zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - 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Isn't original lisp supposed to use comma-separated lists? 08:52:23 Harag [~phil@41-132-83-167.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:52:50 -!- Froward [~uh-oh@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:59:39 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128004050.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 08:59:48 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.68] has joined #lisp 08:59:49 -!- huangho [~vitor@187.47.253.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:00:00 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:00:07 loke: (set-syntax-from-char #\, #\Space) perhaps? 09:00:22 -!- momo-reina [~user@e0109-114-22-75-210.uqwimax.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:50 Yep. (length '(a,b,c)) --> 3 09:01:15 Isn't CL nice? 09:01:16 practical joke on lisp-writing coworkers: add (set-syntax-from-char #\( #\)) in their init file. 09:01:30 -!- sigi-ntb_ [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01:57 sigi-ntb_ [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 09:02:09 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:02:09 xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 09:03:15 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA210D4.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:03:43 pjb: that wouldn't quite work woul dit? 09:03:51 I still wouldn't be able to have spaces in symbol names 09:05:06 sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 09:05:14 -!- sigi-ntb_ [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:05:22 CL-USER> (progn (print '|spaces in symbols?|) 09:05:23 (symbolp '|spaces in symbols?|)) 09:05:23 |spaces in symbols?| 09:05:23 T 09:05:30 Also, ( ( should not be parsed as ( | | (, but rather as ((, so a space shouldn't always be part of a symbol. 09:05:46 pnq [~nick@ACA210D4.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 09:06:03 Quadrescence: I'm talking about 1959 Lisp 09:06:06 oh 09:06:39 Quadrescence, what does that set-syntax-from-char thing do? 09:06:44 Quadrescence: (LAMBDA (A SYMBOL) (FIRST A SYMBOL)) 09:06:54 Sgeo_, just as the name says 09:07:22 Once I've done that, is there any way to fix it? 09:07:34 not as far as I know! 09:08:03 (from within lisp at least) 09:08:11 ,restart time 09:08:37 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:09:03 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has joined #lisp 09:09:08 sigi-ntb_ [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 09:09:39 -!- sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:11:47 -!- tiglog [~topeak@117.79.232.148] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:12:07 tiglog [~topeak@117.79.232.148] has joined #lisp 09:12:53 loke: (set-syntax-from-char #\Space #\A) 09:13:02 But then, no other space! 09:14:48 pjb, are you writing any code on the occasion of Lisp's birthday? 09:14:59 pjb: yeah, that's the problem. Space still needs to be ignored when outside of a symbol, however that should be defined. 09:17:22 loke: actually, Check the LISP 1 manual, they used spaces to separate symbols, not commas, even if in the first two chapter, they either write (AB) or (A,B). But on punched cards and listing it was (A B). 09:18:19 What's funny is how people at the time had fuzzy syntactical notions when writing (I guess by hand more than with a typewriter). But as soon as you put them on the computer, things clear up. 09:18:26 pjb: Right... So it's possible that they themselves realised the problem with the original syntax when they actually implemented the first runtime. 09:19:04 I think s o. 09:21:04 pjb: the spaces separator has first been a bug in the printer IIRC 09:22:35 m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.128] has joined #lisp 09:23:01 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8D5F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:23:21 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8D5F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:55 -!- tiglog [~topeak@117.79.232.148] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:25:05 Well, think about it, design a programming language with no meaningless space! 09:25:36 (a b); Oops, there's a symbol named | | before the list containing |A B| 09:27:14 pjb: I fail to see how that could ever be confusing. I demand a return to 1959 syntax! 09:27:26 ((a b) (c d)); Oopsa 3-element list, with a | | symbol in the middle. 09:28:00 loke: it's not confusing it's highly impractical. Spaces are used to improve readability in typography. 09:28:05 In general. 09:28:22 a*b + c*d vs. a * b+c * d 09:28:30 pjb: Irony, let me show you it! :-) 09:28:39 Although... 09:29:29 I see an amazing pportunity with 1959 Lisp syntax and Unicode. ((a b) (c d)) Five elemnt list: 09:29:46 #\ZERO_WIDTH_SPACE 09:30:50 -!- sigi-ntb_ [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:31:40 (a b c d) A single symbol in the list! :-) 09:31:48 -!- ok2 [ok2@kozachuk.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:31:51 woah! 09:31:53 Umm... 09:31:59 whaaa? 09:32:03 OK, explain 09:32:12 The main thing about lisp syntax is that it is uniformly mediocre. 09:32:13 (equal #\( #\) => NIL 09:32:22 I'm waiting to see how fortress turns out. 09:32:41 Fullwidth_(? 09:32:59 fortress will be good! 09:33:25 guy steele is on it 09:34:14 Damn (or not?). It seems like SBCL doesn't interpret ZERO_WITH_SPACE as a space character 09:34:26 CL-GDATA-USER> (length (string 'ab)) 09:34:26 3 09:34:33 (char-name #\) => #\MATHEMATICAL_LEFT_FLATTENED_PARENTHESIS 09:34:41 There are a loot of parentheses in unicode. 09:34:42 Zhivago: I think of lisp syntax as a constant factor badness. Hopefully it's asymptotically decent. 09:34:43 lot 09:35:14 hefner: Well, uniform mediocrity has a leveling effect. 09:35:16 How can I tell which characters that SBCL interpret as space characters? 09:35:26 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA00A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:29 It means that your extensions are operating on a level playing field with the builtins. 09:36:43 pjb: OK, SBCL does not take NON-BREAKING_SPACE as a space character. That'll solve anyone's need for 1959 style Lisp! 09:37:54 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:38:14 This works: 09:38:15 (defun foo (head of the list list tail) (cons head of the list list tail)) 09:38:29 weird 09:39:00 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:39:23 sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 09:39:41 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-409162.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:40:48 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:41:09 demonview [~ayrnieu@50.15.104.42] has joined #lisp 09:41:14 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:42:08 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:42:14 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-186863.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 09:43:42 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:45:11 sigi-ntb__ [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 09:46:22 -!- sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:45 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:48:02 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:48:43 -!- sigi-ntb__ [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48:53 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.195.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48:58 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.195.76] has joined #lisp 09:49:02 sigi-ntb__ [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 09:50:17 -!- dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:51:56 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:23 -!- sigi-ntb__ [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:53:52 sigi-ntb__ [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 09:54:51 -!- sigi-ntb__ [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:04:18 Shviller [~Shviller@ppp91-79-149-235.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:05:14 Jovlang [~user@cm-84.209.27.113.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 10:07:26 osa1_ [~sinan@88.240.134.136] has joined #lisp 10:08:08 -!- osa1 [~sinan@88.240.134.136] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11:47 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@77-233-74-174.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:12:32 niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has joined #lisp 10:17:54 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:22:45 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:25:03 -!- niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has quit [Ping timeout: 600 seconds] 10:25:46 m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.128] has joined #lisp 10:26:14 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:42 Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 10:30:52 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:28 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128004050.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:32:04 Lisp syntax is fine, leave it alone. Write code instead 10:33:35 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has left #lisp 10:33:55 No. ( and ) need to be replaced with ) and ( 10:34:43 Well, that doesn't work as expected 10:35:17 I guess ) as the closing parenthesis is hardcoded 10:35:41 Sgeo_: not at all. 10:36:02 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128138 10:36:11 Just define a reader macro for #\) using (read-delimited-list #\(). 10:36:36 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 10:36:58 I meant, as in whatever the open list character is, it expects ) as the closing character 10:37:07 Now it'sa little more complex than read-delimited-list, because thisfunction doesn't implement (a . b) notation. But see com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp-reader.reader. 10:39:55 I want to see languages marketing to people who know good languages. 10:40:14 Haskell marketing directed towards Lisp and Smalltalk people, Lisp marketing towards Smalltalk and Haskell people, etc. 10:40:29 Everything's better than Java. 10:40:48 Saying "This language is better than languages like Java, C#, etc" isn't really saying much. 10:41:34 Sgeo_: google used to troll functional language mailing lists, and send job offers to people (ie I got one on email I only used with SBCL mailing list) 10:42:30 of course job offer itself was lame, as in "yes its 60k for senior position" but it comes with irrecplaceble untangible benefit of working @ google 10:43:17 Well, to be fair, they do have a lot of resources. 10:43:36 Which is a kind of tangible benefit. 10:45:14 Zhivago: I was a bit interested, but then (lol) googled around on people interviewing there, and going on 2 trips to west coast, solving puzzles all day, and nothing coming out of it, and decided against 10:46:22 -!- demonview [~ayrnieu@50.15.104.42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:46:29 ayrtest [~ayrnieu@50.15.104.42] has joined #lisp 10:47:07 also position was sysadmin not development, and from expirience, good sysadmins are underappreciated, coz they makes things run smoothly, and then it looks like they sitting there doing nothing all day 10:47:20 -!- ayrtest [~ayrnieu@50.15.104.42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:48:44 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:57:33 Yes. I don't think that I'd want to be anything at google other than an engineer. 10:59:53 -!- Harag [~phil@41-132-83-167.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:01:23 tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 11:01:48 their infrastructure engineers also happen to be always on call (in theory, anyway) 11:05:48 ehu` [~erik@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:05:58 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:06:57 What's the difference between proclaim and declaim? 11:07:43 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA210D4.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:07:46 Sgeo_: (macroexpand '(declaim something)) 11:08:52 I still don't _quite_ grasp usage of eval-when 11:09:23 SBCL says EVAL-WHEN (:COMPILE-TOPLEVEL :LOAD-TOPLEVEL :EXECUTE) 11:09:44 What isn't there that proclaim might do that declaim won't? Inside a let binding? Or am I not grasping eval-when 11:10:15 completely missing eval-when 11:10:44 what do you *think* it does? 11:10:52 (eval-when, that is) 11:10:54 cmm: the trick is to be paired up with opposite timezone, so your "on call" is during normal hours :) 11:10:56 When compiling toplevel (proclaim 'something), nothing happens. The compiler only generates code to call the function proclaim at load time. 11:11:18 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:11:35 So because of the eval-when, the declaim happens sooner? 11:11:57 When compiling a toplevel (declaim something) it's expanded to (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) (proclaim 'something)) which then is executed by the compiler. So the something is proclaimed in the compilation environment. THen the compiler generate the function call for load time (:load-toplevel). 11:12:04 :execute is used when you load the source file. 11:12:34 Sgeo_: the question is who you want to say something? The compiler or the runtime? 11:13:21 When does the distinction make a difference? With macros? 11:13:55 All the time. 11:14:16 Sgeo_: to understand eval-when, you need to understand about compile-time versus load-time. 11:14:20 In general, you use declaim. 11:15:11 When you want to tell some global variable is always bound to some object of some type, it doesn't matter for the run-time; you want to tell it to the compiler, so that it can do optimization with that information. 11:15:33 Hence (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) (proclaim '(type integer *my-var*))) 11:15:45 Easier top type (declaim (type integer *my-var*)). 11:16:03 I think SBCL treats it as a thing to check for, not a thing to optimize on 11:16:13 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:17:19 Sgeo_: I think it does both 11:17:35 after the check, it knows its assumptions are correct. 11:17:48 Sgeo_: easiest way to learn about it, use ,compile-system instead of ,load-system of your system on a freshly loaded lisp. You will quickly learn differences in various eval-whens 11:18:27 ie if you have a macro that automatically exports the symbol being defined, which is used from a different package in your system, guess what you need to wrap the (export) around with 11:20:20 eval-when of either :compile-toplevel or :execute? 11:20:20 ie functions that are used in macros, must go into (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :execute-toplevel :load-toplevel)), functions used by reader macros must go into (:compile-toplevel :execute-toplevel) 11:20:24 I should sleep 11:20:56 Sgeo_: All 3 of them, load also, as you want your export to work when your system loaded from 'fasl file without being compiled 11:21:19 Is this all in some PCL chapter that I may not have looked at? 11:21:32 I have been thumbing around, but not really done a good read-through. 11:21:54 actually surprisingly many multi-package systems don't pass the simple test of being able to go through ,compile-system on freshly loaded lisp 11:22:18 shows you that eval-when stuff is tricky to understand even for experienced people 11:22:38 !!FUN!! 11:24:06 Sgeo_: simple rule, its utility used by a macro, or from a macro (not in the _expansion_ of a macro, but from a macro itself), wrap it into (eval-when (all 3 of them)). Only portable case of omitting 1 value from (eval-when) is functions used by read macros, in which case you can omit :load-toplevel 11:24:22 maxm-: really? wow. didn't know that. even more: I've never experiencedi it. Any package in particular? 11:24:25 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:25:02 ehu`: commonqt from top of my head, but there been ohters 11:26:43 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:27:07 ok. that explains. never used commonqt 11:27:13 ehu`: also anything that used cl-def, as it forgot to wrap its (exports) with eval-when 11:28:18 generally I find its a good test if I got the dependencies and eval-whens right for my own system.. (serial :t quickly gets tiring as source size grows) 11:28:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:29:09 theBlackDragon [~dragon@79.132.233.48] has joined #lisp 11:30:33 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.148.211] has joined #lisp 11:30:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.148.211] has quit [Changing host] 11:30:33 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:35:46 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@79.132.233.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:43:06 theBlackDragon [~dragon@79.132.233.48] has joined #lisp 11:46:34 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-50-205.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:47:15 madrik [~user@122.168.164.24] has joined #lisp 11:55:00 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 11:57:41 marijn` [~user@p4FC96B42.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:50 is there something like trivial-memory-mapped-files which wraps the various implementations' APIs for mapping files to single interface? 12:05:58 niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has joined #lisp 12:07:01 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@88.240.134.136] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:07:10 osa1_ [~sinan@88.240.134.136] has joined #lisp 12:07:28 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@88.240.134.136] has quit [Client Quit] 12:14:12 dru1d [~lukasz@ip-82-177-172-217.net.azartsat.pl] has joined #lisp 12:15:15 -!- FireFly [~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:15:15 FireFly [~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly] has joined #lisp 12:16:37 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@79.132.233.48] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:19:26 Froward [~uh-oh@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:07 kai_ [~kai@f052096124.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:20:53 theBlackDragon [~dragon@79.132.233.48] has joined #lisp 12:28:18 silenius [~silenius@i59F72653.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:35:28 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@79.132.233.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:39:11 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 12:41:56 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.117.32] has joined #lisp 12:42:20 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:43:24 zophy [~zophy@ipv6postoffice.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:31 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 12:52:33 marijn`: i haven't heard of anything like that 12:54:09 Xach: too bad. i actually realized that it wouldn't be so easy -- a mapped file is a raw memory region, and there's also no standard way of reading/writing raw memory 12:54:23 though i guess it could integrate with cffi 12:56:50 Did you have a particular use in mind? 12:57:51 a reader for a file format 12:58:02 skipping around with file-position will work for now 13:00:00 -!- xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:04:15 marijn`: write your own closer-mmap or trivial-mmap ;-) 13:06:05 hasn't he done enough already? 13:06:30 I don't know. 13:08:20 writing oss software is never done 13:08:27 zDarkRay [~zDarkRay@net-188-217-227-80.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 13:08:34 -!- zDarkRay [~zDarkRay@net-188-217-227-80.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has left #lisp 13:09:38 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-186863.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:13:43 -!- drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:14:35 what would be the best way to attach some application attributes to an arbitrary stream? 13:15:13 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.117.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:15:16 a hash-table 13:15:18 i thought about changing the class of the stream to one which has additional slots, but that seems to be a bit heavy handed 13:15:50 fe[nl]ix: right. now i want to have this hash table be part of the stream rather than be a separate variable. i need to deal with multiple streams at the same time. 13:17:31 well, i think i can just use a class that has stream and attributes slots. thanks for listening. 13:17:31 someone's complaining on sbcl-devel@ that sbcl is slow at saving > 246 GB cores... 13:17:46 H4ns: you can do that 13:18:08 which is quite strange 13:18:10 H4ns: subclass it adding the additional slot then change-class 13:18:38 fe[nl]ix: that i thought about, but the thing then is that i'm restricted to the one class that i'm subclassing. 13:18:38 stassats`: you misunderstood 13:18:49 fe[nl]ix: possibly 13:18:54 H4ns: i don't quite see how your sentences relate. how does having a hash table preclude working with multiple streams? 13:19:32 Xach: i want the attributes and to stream be one thing rather than two. 13:19:35 stassats`: the data is 60GB, but save-lisp-and-die keeps using more memory: 100 Gb yesterday, 246 today 13:19:37 but anyway, thank you! 13:19:40 :) 13:19:49 Ah, I see...I took the suggestion as having the table be keyed on the screen object and the attributes be the value. 13:20:01 So (setf (my-attribute stream) 42) is (setf (gethash stream table) 42) 13:20:12 screen? stream. 13:20:13 fe[nl]ix: well, i wouldn't call saving a core with 60GB something normal either 13:21:19 stassats`: right, but I wouldn't expect it to take much more than the time is needs to write it to disk 13:21:59 ngz [~user@69.205.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:42 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.117.32] has joined #lisp 13:23:10 Doesn't it imply a full gc? 13:23:18 Zhivago: it does 13:23:34 That might take some time. 13:23:50 60GB of data would need at least 120GB 13:24:31 which for most means paging heavily to disk 13:25:12 one would have thought if you working with 60g of data can afford ssd disks, or 256gig ram 13:25:45 It might be the first GC that they do. :) 13:26:22 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:26:40 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 13:27:09 Can quoted names, symbols and strings be interchangeably converted? 13:27:34 "names"? 13:27:37 what is a quoted name? 13:27:44 Presumably a symbol. 13:27:51 you can convert between strings and symbols 13:28:13 a symbol can take two strings 13:28:15 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.117.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:28:15 Symbols have additional information, such as package and property lists, but the symbol-name is a string. 13:29:40 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:29:58 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 13:30:04 (defun convert-symbol-to-string (symbol) (with-standard-io-syntax (let ((*package* (make-package)) (*print-readably* t) (*print-escape* t)) (prin1-to-string symbol)))) 13:30:18 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 13:31:26 osa1 [~sinan@88.240.134.136] has joined #lisp 13:32:57 pjb: is that so the package and package markers are printed? 13:33:26 pjb: The package name is not optional. You can just use the KEYWORD package. 13:34:17 Probably something to do with case-folding insanity. 13:34:36 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:36 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.117.32] has joined #lisp 13:35:51 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has joined #lisp 13:37:13 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.68] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.94.1] 13:37:29 Yes. 13:37:48 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 13:38:01 -!- Jovlang [~user@cm-84.209.27.113.getinternet.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:38:21 pjb: which? 13:38:45 after 1000th time of converting (if) to (cond), i'm gonna write cl-emacs-if. I will do it 13:38:51 So that the package is printed. 13:39:00 Is it specified thatkeywords are always printed with :? 13:39:03 pjb: it is 13:39:05 (let ((*package* (find-package :keyword))) (prin1-to-string :hello)) => ":HELLO" I would have expected "HELLO". 13:39:09 maxm-: redshank-condify-form 13:39:17 pjb: it is an explicit special case 13:39:25 Ok. 13:40:10 I prefer to use a temporary package, so that when a CL2020 is standardized without this special case, my programs still work :-) 13:40:36 stassats`: yea i have my own macro, its just code looks less clear.. Emacs (if) extension is as perfect as could be. Does not change original and is very useful. Its asymetry is beatiful like asymetric eve ship models 13:41:25 i hate emacs if 13:41:53 Just write an emacs command to do the refactoring! 13:42:03 good, I'll enjoy using it more then :-) 13:42:11 pjb: redshank-condify-form does that 13:42:31 Good 13:43:28 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.68] has joined #lisp 13:44:31 -!- machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:45:16 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA00A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:45:26 in 2020 you will be 95 years old! 13:45:50 Xach: and his code will still run! 13:45:51 lisp is a language for 100 year olds 13:45:57 stassats`: HJS is on a box with ~100 GB RAM. I think I can see why core saving would be slow, but that's only if their data is almost all small objects. 13:46:14 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 13:49:22 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-410753.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 13:50:16 machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:01 and that also means little space for fs cache 13:52:43 Xach: is quicklisp supposed to dynamically pickup stuff if I put symlink to a directory into ~/quicklisp/local-projects 13:53:16 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-8-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:24 tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 13:55:19 maxm-: yes, if you use a recent-enough CCL or SBCL, or any version of other CLs 13:55:28 maxm-: not working for you? if not, what platform? 13:56:31 rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has joined #lisp 13:57:57 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128139 13:58:32 (ql:quickload "cl-emacs-if") gives system not found, (ql:update-client) says already at latest version 13:58:35 maxm-: what platform? 13:59:00 sbcl "1.0.50.46-d5ec4e5-dirty" 13:59:08 don't you have to (ql:update-local-project) or something? 13:59:14 just a sec I'm actually in inverted readtable package, lemme try from cl-user 13:59:41 eh, what? 13:59:58 daimrod: not usually 14:00:11 maxm-: shouldn't matter. i wonder if 1.0.50 is too old. 14:00:16 *Xach* checks NEWS 14:01:01 oh well, guess have to upgrade again.. Did any of nikodemus threading stuff made it in and rocked the boat or no? coz I'm on a perfectly working system, and don't want no troubles 14:01:19 it's stable 14:01:42 ok, then I'll go for it later today 14:02:16 huangho [~vitor@187.83.121.140] has joined #lisp 14:05:21 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8D5F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:05:34 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8D5F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:28 Xach: I found (defun register-local-projects ()) in local-projects.lisp, but no call sites to it found with recursive grep 14:06:58 anyway calling it did not helped 14:09:40 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA00A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:10:33 ok I know why, (directory (merge-pathnames "**/*.asd" #p"/home/max/quicklisp/local-projects/")) returns NIL, so it ignores symlinks, moving directory in there works 14:13:47 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@124.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:13:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:14:01 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA00A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:21:37 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-24-223-21.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:22:35 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:05 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:33 m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.128] has joined #lisp 14:25:02 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-063.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:25:57 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 14:26:32 err I think I opened issue in wrong place 14:26:40 Xach: it does not work on CCL either 14:30:11 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.164.24] has left #lisp 14:30:31 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:35:26 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:36:46 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:38:36 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: shutdown -h now] 14:38:41 RaceCondition [~erik@dsl48-249.uninet.ee] has joined #lisp 14:40:28 -!- zophy [~zophy@ipv6postoffice.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:41:22 How could I assign a lambda function to a name in the function namespace? 14:41:54 (setf (fdefinition symbol) (lambda ...)) 14:42:11 s/symbol/function-name/ 14:43:58 -!- ehu` [~erik@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:44:37 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.117.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:45:06 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA00A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:46:48 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:48:18 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@114.243.230.81] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:19 cbp` [~user@187.193.228.84] has joined #lisp 14:51:29 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 14:55:47 tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.58.205] has joined #lisp 14:57:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:58:50 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 14:59:09 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-063.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:03:12 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.117.32] has joined #lisp 15:06:13 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:06:29 -!- huangho [~vitor@187.83.121.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:07:18 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 15:09:45 -!- Froward [~uh-oh@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:12:09 -!- marijn` [~user@p4FC96B42.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:13:44 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:18:26 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 15:18:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:19:22 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:22:02 KingThomasIV [~KingThoma@c-66-177-178-27.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:10 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-010-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:12 huangho [~vitor@187.83.121.140] has joined #lisp 15:27:46 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has quit [Quit: rme] 15:28:40 Harag [~phil@41-132-83-167.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:30:51 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-010-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:31:13 ISF [~ivan@201.82.132.28] has joined #lisp 15:32:08 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:33:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:35:01 haters gonna hate: https://github.com/7max/cl-emacs-if 15:36:00 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 15:36:12 there's no symbol "WHILE" in CL 15:36:49 Hmm, not even via loop? 15:37:09 not "even" 15:37:12 I guess that just uses string. 15:37:37 stassats`: the usage pattern of it is to use shadowing-import, so you can just omit :while anyway..(it will screw up iterate, but does't screw up loop, which goes by symbol-name) 15:37:45 and shadow creates symbol if its not there 15:38:05 maxm-: you shadowed #:while, there's no #:while in :cl package 15:38:30 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:39:12 and? 15:39:28 you don't need to shadow it 15:39:37 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:55 great 15:40:26 maxm-: you should use &body instead of &rest, so emacs indents it well. 15:40:38 -!- huangho [~vitor@187.83.121.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:41:01 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 15:41:05 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@dsl48-249.uninet.ee] has quit [Quit: RaceCondition] 15:41:18 daimrod: now thats a valid critisim.. I think cl-indent has a hardcoded case for if tho, I'll check 15:42:00 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:42:02 i like how my advice is invalid... 15:42:48 huangho [~vitor@187.46.67.130] has joined #lisp 15:43:15 RaceCondition [~erik@dsl48-249.uninet.ee] has joined #lisp 15:43:54 its valid but not useful, there are differences 15:44:31 are you kidding? 15:44:52 no insult intended, but yes, small stylystic errors that do not affect the outcome do not really bother me 15:45:28 ok, you are indeed 15:46:26 i understand, it's hard to press C-M-k 15:47:12 i'll do it together with body and readme update 15:47:29 i can live with that 15:51:02 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-82.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:51:57 -!- Mekanik [~vov@ppp91-79-52-247.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 15:56:40 -!- huangho [~vitor@187.46.67.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:57:15 yeatman [~tim@pool-71-243-244-79.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:53 Guest9364 [~anonymous@ip-2-206-0-56.web.vodafone.de] has joined #lisp 15:58:30 -!- Guest9364 [~anonymous@ip-2-206-0-56.web.vodafone.de] has left #lisp 15:59:16 -!- Harag [~phil@41-132-83-167.dsl.mweb.co.za] has left #lisp 16:00:06 maxm-: and why don't you just expand to `(cond (,test ,then) (t ,@else))? 16:00:09 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 16:00:57 I often look at macroexpanded code, so I'd rather look at (if) then (cond) even in macroexpanded code (in the case of single else clause) 16:01:52 your if will be only expanded with macroexpand-all, so you'll get your IF 16:02:07 Froward [~uh-oh@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:57 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:05:01 oh right, expanding to `(cond (,test ,then) (t ,@else)) will be wrong 16:05:53 `(cl:if ,test ,then (progn ,@else)) 16:08:44 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-026.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:08:57 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128247084.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 16:09:29 -!- Shviller [~Shviller@ppp91-79-149-235.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:09:31 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 16:09:32 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:09:46 Shviller [~Shviller@ppp91-79-154-184.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:10:00 and your while won't have a nice macroexpansion, with gensyms for labels, better just use while-end, while-start or something, since they're not gonna be exported 16:10:23 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:11:12 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:12:08 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-82.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:14:25 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:16:13 Xach: I thought this is latest CCL, just downloaded it like a week ago 16:16:47 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:16:49 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:17:51 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-8-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:19:34 inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279436950.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:20:27 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 16:21:23 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:22:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-026.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:23:15 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8D5F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:23:21 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8D5F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:28 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:25:18 Frowardly [~uh-oh@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26:43 -!- osa1 [~sinan@88.240.134.136] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:27:21 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:27:31 -!- Froward [~uh-oh@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:29:40 sc0tt [Me@c-24-91-248-93.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:53 m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.128] has joined #lisp 16:35:18 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-234-209.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:18 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-234-209.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:35:18 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 16:35:21 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:36 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 16:36:51 huangho [~vitor@187.83.189.35] has joined #lisp 16:41:08 rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has joined #lisp 16:42:12 -!- huangho [~vitor@187.83.189.35] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:43:04 -!- nialo` [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:43:42 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:47:14 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:47:53 is plexippus still SBCL-only? 16:48:45 i can build it on CCL 16:48:46 -!- sc0tt [Me@c-24-91-248-93.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has left #lisp 16:49:16 thanks 16:49:41 yoklov [~yoklov@67.221.74.156] has joined #lisp 16:49:54 -!- zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-165-27.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has left #lisp 16:50:45 but it very well may not work 16:52:03 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-8-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:06 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.117.32] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:55:02 pnq [~nick@ACA247B4.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:00:09 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:18 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-013.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:06:18 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA01AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:06:28 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F72653.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:13 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:31 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@dsl48-249.uninet.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:15:09 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:28 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.132.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:16:43 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA247B4.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:17:49 RaceCondition [~erik@dsl48-249.uninet.ee] has joined #lisp 17:19:14 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-153-19.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:19 slyrus: it builds on allegro in ansi mode as well 17:19:31 ok, thanks p_l 17:22:15 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:25 it has #-sbcl(error) all over the place 17:24:57 nelson- [~user@188.250.63.184] has joined #lisp 17:25:27 -!- nelson- [~user@188.250.63.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:10 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:28:36 Anybody have an opinion about which HTML generator to use? 17:28:54 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:04 cl-who 17:31:14 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 17:32:40 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 17:33:55 stassats: That's the one I was trying... Had a problem with it. It seems that if you make a macro that produces (str ...), it won't work. 17:34:58 use functions instead 17:34:59 stassats`: ah, so it builds but doesn't run? 17:35:06 slyrus: i imagine so 17:35:26 what do CCL/ACL/etc... folks do for xpath then? 17:35:56 SBCL is a portable program, they load it 17:36:14 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:16 stassats: Not sure I understand, how would functions help? 17:36:34 you would use them instead of macros 17:37:21 (defun foo (x) (with-html... (str x))) (with-html.. (foo y)) 17:38:18 stassats`: I guess I wont have my xpath stuff on the raspberry pi anytime soon then :( 17:38:35 slyrus: you can port it to CCL 17:38:54 although CCL doesn't work on raspberry pi 17:39:31 or so i've been told 17:39:40 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.166.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:40:55 right, it's armv6, ccl needs armv7 17:42:22 boo, hiss. 17:43:42 stassats: I don't think functions will work, my macro needs to do more at compile time than just pass on a value 17:44:26 rewrite your macros then 17:45:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-013.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:47:25 ? 17:48:02 if you really want macros, wrap STR in HTM 17:48:19 or no, that's not gonna work 17:48:25 in with-html 17:49:41 Which documentation generator is preferred? 17:50:27 i prefer hand-written documentation 17:50:40 Always the best. 17:51:06 i don't like the code to be infiltrated with prose 17:56:09 stassats: Thanks, I'll try that... 17:56:16 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:8a53:8940:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:56:40 bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:8a53:8940:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has joined #lisp 17:56:42 *hefner* doesn't want to generate documentation from code, but needs to figure out a better approach than writing HTML by hand 17:56:56 docAvid: I use my own HTML generator. Read https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/common-lisp/html-generator/html-generators-in-lisp.txt 17:57:00 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:57:23 docAvid: (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp.html-generator) 17:59:16 nialo- [~nialo@ool-18ba4468.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:21 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA01AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:46 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:00:30 hefner: let me know if you find something 18:00:34 The markdown parser that git uses is almost perfect (redcarpet) 18:00:49 except it needs ~~~ lisp highlighting 18:01:04 and some lispy extensions, maybe some rubyhead can make some 18:01:11 yoklov_ [~yoklov@67.221.74.156] has joined #lisp 18:01:50 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:01:50 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:01:50 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 18:02:59 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:19 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@dsl48-249.uninet.ee] has quit [Quit: RaceCondition] 18:03:52 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.123.98] has joined #lisp 18:04:10 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-229.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:04:19 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@67.221.74.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:06:10 fe[nl]ix: not happy with texinfo? 18:06:18 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-82.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:06:36 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-229.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:35 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:09:10 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-229.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:11:26 -!- inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279436950.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:11:55 *slyrus* is pleased to discover that cl-markdown and nuclblog are still happy with the subset of markdown i used today 18:12:18 X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 18:12:35 and it's been less than a full year since my last blog post. yay. 18:12:51 hefner: not at all 18:13:03 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:14:01 hefner: I'd like something that generates good wide-screen HTML and ePUB. PDF support is optional 18:15:43 oh man Xorg docs are soo outdated, i cannot start X -synchronous :1 or so 18:16:00 only Option "Log" "sync" in the ServerFlags section will do.... 18:18:19 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:19:11 -!- yoklov_ [~yoklov@67.221.74.156] has quit [Quit: bye!] 18:19:18 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.170.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:33 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.228] has joined #lisp 18:24:02 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-8-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:24:07 slyrus: while it is flattering for edi, DRKMA is not a standard :) 18:26:16 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:26:39 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:8a53:8940:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:30:24 bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:8a53:8940:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has joined #lisp 18:30:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:32:24 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:40 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:32:40 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:35:14 slyrus: interesting blog post anyway. i have this metaclass in which slots can have an associated xpath to read values from ( 18:35:49 slyrus: (http://paste.lisp.org/display/127890) - and i'd like to learn what changes drakma needs, maybe it can be updated to have those changes right away 18:38:17 an async iolib backend would be pretty neat ^^ 18:38:57 Ralith: that would not be entirely infeasible, although i'm not sure whether it would be possible to make it play nice with flexi-streams. 18:39:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:39:56 hm 18:40:05 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:40:43 the problem with CL streams is, afaik, there's no way to cleanly integrate them with an async core 18:40:57 Ralith: that's what i meant 18:41:05 yeah, just thinking aloud 18:41:36 I assume drakma ties in with them fairly extensively? 18:42:22 fe[nl]ix: what do you imagine for wide-screen HTML? a navigation column? a maximum width for the body text? 18:42:24 Ralith: it uses them, yes. 18:42:45 I mean, in such a way that removing them would be a major challenge 18:42:58 or at least a significant effort 18:43:15 Ralith: i think it would not be too hard. 18:43:22 interesting. 18:44:05 Ralith: obviously, the options to read from and write to a stream would need to change significantly. 18:44:10 Ralith: (or be removed) 18:44:23 of course. 18:44:23 Man, I wish I were in Boston for the Boston Lisp meeting 18:44:41 Are there any Seattlites here? 18:44:47 would have to be replaced with a callback of some kind 18:45:06 Cosman246: sometimes! 18:47:08 hefner: a navigation column on the left, with links to the entire document, and enough space for 100-column code examples on the right 18:49:45 hefner: for example https://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/pseries/v5r3/index.jsp?topic=/com.ibm.aix.progcomm/doc/progcomc/skt_ovw.htm 18:53:10 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:53:48 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 18:57:26 Ralith: such as myself, I guess 18:57:38 Cosman246: I mean to say, I am sometimes a seattlite. 18:57:49 for the purposes of being within daytrip distance, anyway 19:04:56 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 19:05:41 slyrus' cl-vcard blog kind makes me want to sell my computers and move to a hut in the jungle. 19:05:54 Why? 19:06:10 XML? XPATH? 19:06:14 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:35 "all of the above" 19:09:22 *maxm-* worked with multi-gigabyte xml documents, and never in his life had to use xpath 19:09:29 I shall print a copy and keep it in my wallet, in case my data is ever kidnapped by enterprise Java programmers. 19:09:31 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:44 not sure if I missed out on anything based on its syntax/features 19:11:21 which is not to belittle his efforts - he's a brave, brave man for mounting such a daring rescue of his address book. 19:11:49 hefner: hah 19:12:59 H4ns: whoops! thanks 19:15:22 Kron [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 19:15:53 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 19:16:14 H4ns: it's pretty trivial to support REPORT (at least as far as CardDAV goes -- not sure if there's more to it than that). I'll try to pull a patch together this evening. 19:16:32 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:16:54 slyrus: cool. send me a pull request when you're done. 19:17:00 will do 19:17:06 .oO( carddav omg ) 19:18:08 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:19:39 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has quit [Quit: rme] 19:19:58 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-410753.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:45 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:08 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:24:54 -!- ngz [~user@69.205.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:24 ngz [~user@69.205.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:50 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:25:53 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:26:00 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:00 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:26:00 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:27:45 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:07 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:50 benny` [~benny@i577A8A96.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:31:43 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7734.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:31:52 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-21-68.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:15 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:32:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:33:56 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:56 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:33:56 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:34:39 chr_ [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 19:34:44 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:43 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.228] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:36:00 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: I don't worship the devil, but I do agree with a lot of the things he tells me.] 19:38:28 -!- benny` is now known as benny 19:38:50 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 19:41:15 I'm trying out chunked encoding in cl-http as I list output from several backend calls, some which take time. The timing and output looks nice in a terminal, but both Linux Firefox and Mac OS X Safari waits for all the output before displaying. Any tips on what to look for? 19:42:13 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:46:18 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87] has joined #lisp 19:47:36 -!- krrrcks [~dbr@mail.systemhaus-brunner.de] has left #lisp 19:49:05 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-8-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:30 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-120-252.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 19:49:41 H4ns: if a client aborts a transfer handled by handle-static-file, a broken pipe results, and hunchentoot displays a HUGE stack trace in the repl. i 19:50:03 i'm wondering if this couldn't be improved a bit 19:50:08 Simple example of chunked encoding: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128143 19:51:02 limetree: what implementation? what hunchentoot version? 19:51:53 limetree: obviously, this is a bug and needs to be fixed. it should also be obvious that such a simple problem would not have gone unnoticed for years of hunchentoot use. 19:53:38 H4ns: sbcl 1.0.55 and a recent git version of hunchentoot 19:53:49 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:53:53 limetree: and what usocket version? 19:54:11 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA01AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:54:13 limetree: does the problem occur when you install hunchentoot and its dependencies with quicklisp? 19:54:46 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@162-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:55:16 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.11] has joined #lisp 19:55:58 usocket 0.5.4 19:56:38 it seems like the error occurs when chrome downloads a media file that it can't play. it aborts the transfers when it figures it out. 19:57:22 koo2 [~k11@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 19:58:34 limetree: if the problem exists when hunchentoot and its dependencies are installed with quicklisp, then it needs fixing and a patch would be welcome. 20:00:12 the quicklisp version probably behaves differently in this particular situation, because chrome uses byte ranges 20:00:33 and that version of hunchentoot couldn't handle those, if you recall 20:00:59 limetree: i think there will be a quicklisp update this weekend which will include the range fixes 20:01:51 limetree: but, have you tried whether the problem has anything to do with byte ranges? 20:02:07 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:03:33 i will try 20:04:16 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.44.212] has joined #lisp 20:04:36 limetree: you could use drakma to test. use the want-stream argument to prevent it from reading the response body, then close the stream without reading. 20:04:57 limetree: that should put you into the same situation 20:05:04 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.223.196] has joined #lisp 20:18:34 H4ns: you're right, it does 20:22:33 rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has joined #lisp 20:22:51 daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 20:23:21 limetree: what condition is signalled? is it a usocket condition or a sbcl specific one? 20:23:31 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-248-14.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:56 if i'm reading this correctly, (SIGNAL #" {1004E50833}>) 20:26:09 i could paste it if you want 20:26:18 to lisppaste, please. 20:26:25 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.166.92] has joined #lisp 20:29:16 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128144 20:29:53 i had to delete of a lot of the text, due to lisppaste limits 20:30:04 it is sufficient 20:30:41 thing is, this is a non-portable condition which would first need to be converted to a portable condition in usocket before it could be handled by hunchentoot 20:33:03 couldn't you handle stream-error? 20:33:52 i could, but silencing all stream-errors does not seem like trt 20:34:11 Indecipherable [~user@41.23.187.51] has joined #lisp 20:36:56 the first question would be how one could narrow down the condition to this particular problem (client closed socket while response being sent) 20:37:43 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:55 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 20:38:04 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:38:14 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:8a53:8940:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:27 yes, i agree 20:40:59 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:41:17 another question that i can't quite answer right now is what would happen if the client closes the connection before the response of a user-defined handler had completely been written. 20:41:34 i suspect that it'd result in the same error, but i'm not sure. 20:41:46 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:42:35 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:37 depends how it closes the connection 20:42:49 i think i could accept a patch that fixes the problem for handle-static-file in a localized fashion 20:42:53 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:43:03 in this case SBCL got an ECONNRESET 20:43:11 "Connection reset by peer" in the backtrace 20:43:41 fe[nl]ix: interesting. that should be mapped to a portable condition by usocket, really 20:44:17 the problem is that the simple-stream-error doesn't carry that information 20:44:24 ah, ok. 20:44:47 so sbcl streams map the network error to a stream error 20:44:56 only that the lastcar of :FORMAT-ARGUMENTS is that string, which is a little useless 20:48:26 -!- Frowardly [~uh-oh@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:50:48 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA01AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:51:16 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA01AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:43 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:00 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 20:59:49 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:07 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 21:05:46 H4ns: what does fixing the problem in a localized fashion mean? 21:06:59 Ralith: ah 21:07:01 limetree: i had thought that converting errors to warnings in handle-static-file, for write-sequence and flush-output, might be a proper intermediate solution 21:07:24 limetree: but i'm now thinking that we're really looking at an sbcl problem now. i'm not quite sure, though. 21:10:22 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 21:13:31 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:13:49 decripter37 [~leo037@host219-236-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:14:38 Hello, someone know a newbie-guide to common lisp? And a compilator? :) thanks 21:15:24 inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279436950.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:15:34 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:16:28 decripter37: tutorial  PCL, interpreter/compiler  SBCL, IDE  Emacs + SLIME 21:17:35 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-3.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:45 or if you don't know much about programming read « Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation » 21:18:37 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 21:18:49 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-99.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:18:55 decripter37: see http://www.cliki.net/Getting%20Started 21:19:13 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:19:52 decripter37: cliki.net is a good source to find information and libraries (though it certainly doesn't contain everything). 21:19:56 I programmed in c, php, so I've heard that lisp have a lot-of-different sintax 21:20:18 I need juast a sintax explainer :) 21:20:21 *just 21:20:24 decripter37: more important than the syntax differences are the features. what are the bigger projects you've worked on so far? 21:20:36 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-99.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:14 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-229.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:21:17 decripter37: you can't just map common lisp to what you know now, many things simply don't have their equivalent counterpart in other langauges. 21:21:21 Not so bigger, I've studied it, work on php for some site 21:21:41 decripter37: then start with « Gentle ... » 21:21:46 decripter37: so, sadly, you'll actually have to learn lisp, instead of trying to write php or c in lisp. 21:21:47 so it's not ehm biunivocal? XD 21:21:50 decripter37, have you ever touched function pointers in C? Not that that's really close enough, but stil 21:21:52 still 21:21:59 (I'm thinking of one feature in particular) 21:22:09 (And there's still much more to Common Lisp than that) 21:22:26 yup, I've used pointer in C 21:22:39 Function pointers, not just normal pointers. 21:22:48 decripter37: though you will learn other languages faster once you know common lisp :) i also advise the book Gentle. it starts slowly, but it gives you a solid understanding of what's going on. 21:23:47 wait 21:23:48 Sgeo_: given the BLUB(TM) argument, it'll be hard to explain what he's missing. i hope you succeed though. 21:23:54 function aren't just another sort of "variables"? It works like a normal array, his name is the pointer at first instruction 21:23:55 C/PHP programmer wanting to learn C? 21:24:16 inaimathi: whot? no, decripter37 wants to learn lisp... why c? 21:24:17 nono I want to learn lisp XD it's a lisp channel 21:24:20 Or rather, lisp? 21:24:21 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-99.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:24:38 -!- pdponze [~pierre@37.0.41.146] has left #lisp 21:24:56 decripter37, um, didn't mean to confuse you 21:24:57 >.> 21:25:10 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890515.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:25:19 http://langnostic.blogspot.com/2011/01/c-in-lisp.html 21:25:28 here are 5 things that I'm begging you not to do. 21:26:05 lol 21:26:20 I feel like there are needless progns everywhere when I write macros 21:26:21 :/ 21:26:34 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-8-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:27:11 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.123.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:34 cliki seems interesting 21:27:38 thanks ;) 21:28:00 -!- Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:26 -!- decripter37 [~leo037@host219-236-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 21:28:32 Sgeo_: why are they there if they aren't needed? 21:29:14 daniel [~daniel@p50829C5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:24 madnificent, because I don't know how to make macros expand into multiple forms. 21:29:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-99.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:34 test2212 [~tony@5ac37ad4.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 21:29:40 All I can think is to make it a progn that contains the forms 21:29:48 Sgeo_: you're doing it right 21:29:51 Sgeo_: you can't, and you should stop worrying about those progns 21:30:15 Sgeo_: you are doing it right. it is okay for the compiler to look at progns. 21:30:34 Sgeo_: ahm, you (and many others) may hate this, but i use an emacs library to shorten certain expressions. lambda is one of them, progn is another. they'll appear as a single symbol and they won't bother you as much. 21:30:43 Sgeo_: if that is what's bothering you. 21:31:09 The length of lambda sort of does bother me, but that's not what I was referring to 21:31:22 Sgeo_: it's the same thing with progn 21:31:24 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.44.212] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:31:41 *stassats* is sometimes amazed at problems people have 21:31:54 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-99.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:32:13 -!- daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082A9BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:32:46 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-99.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:15 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:37 Sgeo_: (defmacro  (args &body body) `(lambda ,args ,@body)) 21:33:38 *cmm* is tempted to psychoanalyze, but doesn't bother 21:34:07 (( (x))oops) 21:34:20 \o/ 21:34:25 there is an emacs mode to do that. 21:34:55 it's funny how problems can be solved with a little research 21:35:09 stassats: the solutions to such non-problems are often even more amazing 21:35:42 Ralith: you can just make emacs replace the symbol in lisp buffers, the code itself is the same and it's quite easy to type lambda, it's just long to read. 21:35:43 daimrod: wait till i show you my emacs mode which makes CL look like Haskell 21:35:52 stassats, !! 21:36:12 madnificent: yes. 21:36:14 *Sgeo_* assumes that stassats is joking 21:36:20 alright, i don't have one, i have something better! 21:36:37 https://gist.github.com/767289 21:36:39 Ralith: with symbol, i mean the symbol it prits, not the contents of the buffer itself. 21:36:44 I know. 21:36:49 I am aware of that mode 21:36:54 ah, then why the macro? 21:37:00 it's a proof of concept, not yet a full replacement 21:37:05 to point out to Sgeo_ that he was being ridiculous. 21:37:13 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-99.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:37:24 but it allows you to write:  n  (1 2 3 4 5): (evenp n) 21:38:05 well, I would prefer an emacs mode which makes haskell look like CL, I like s-exp. 21:38:20 daimrod, Liskell? 21:38:37 http://www.liskell.org/ 21:38:38 -!- chr_ [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:48 *stassats* is not responsible if anyone takes this serious and actually starts using it 21:38:57 Although that's more like looking like Scheme 21:39:13 haha 21:39:14 nice 21:40:24 -!- Indecipherable [~user@41.23.187.51] has left #lisp 21:40:33 I'll just stick with CL for now, though if I want to learn something new it think it will be Shen. 21:40:45 I think* 21:41:38 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-245-119.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:41:41 i actually think APL is seriously cool, if you want to short code, why not go full monty 21:42:27 -!- dan64 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 21:43:09 Ralith: i like lambda to look like a single symbol instead of the text lambda. it's nicer to my eyes. perhaps we don't need to read and write code in the same way. just a thought. 21:43:31 why are you telling me this? 21:43:36 sadly, reader-macros are limited only for consumption of the next character, not the previous 21:43:49 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:44:41 Ralith: because you found comments on the textual form af lambda to be silly. or so i interpreted it. 21:45:05 I certainly didn't intend to imply that. 21:45:18 ah, ok.... well have a nice day :) 21:45:22 ^^ 21:45:30 dan64 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:45:33 I find the idea of intelligent/configurable rendering of code fairly interesting 21:47:17 -!- inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279436950.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 21:47:51 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 21:48:09 dubellz [~tdubellz@freenode/staff/tdubellz] has joined #lisp 21:49:42 -!- test2212 [~tony@5ac37ad4.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:57 -!- dan64 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 21:54:30 dan64 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:36 created a system and used named-readtables: https://github.com/stassats/closer-apl 21:54:56 -!- dan64 is now known as Guest74069 21:55:58 vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:01:21 urandom__ [~user@p548A26E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:30 -!- Guest74069 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 22:01:45 dan64_ [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:17 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-99.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:02:35 -!- dan64_ [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:04:30 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.166.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:05:42 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.223.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:07:02 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:10:13 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:18:48 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA01AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:19 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483BC9F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:25:22 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87] has joined #lisp 22:29:03 heh. there's a sci-fi show on swedish television called "real people" (translated) which is about intelligent robots. one of the characters in tonight's episode got a secret code on a piece of paper: (defun make-dog (head body) (let ((...)) (complement #'dog...) ...) 22:29:07 couldn't make it all out 22:29:48 (complement #'dog) == #'cat? 22:30:03 :) 22:33:14 added some examples: https://github.com/stassats/closer-apl/blob/master/examples.lisp , i don't think i can add any more constructs without rewriting the reader 22:34:21 stassats: it's a good example of named-readtables! i wanted to say it before you added the examples.lisp file as i was thinking that it kind-of missed that. very nice. 22:35:10 *madnificent* should learn to use read-tables in the wild 22:35:17 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.147.218.185] has joined #lisp 22:35:42 kmcorbett_ [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:20 typing those symbols on an ordinary keyboard isn't easy... 22:37:11 i wouldn't know how to do it on dvorak, but for this example it's irrelevant. the good thing is that it shows how to use them and how little overhead code there is in order to get it working. 22:41:39 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:44:29 pnq [~nick@ACA291BB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:48:51 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:48:57 limetree: cool! 22:49:18 stassats: also cool 22:50:43 too bad there's no named-pprint-dispatch 22:52:56 espadrine [~thaddee_t@acces2342.res.insa-lyon.fr] has joined #lisp 22:53:41 do we get "+/ ÷ " to average? 22:53:48 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:14 -!- kmcorbett_ [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:57:14 -!- kmcorbett [kmcorbett@clozure-9FE07BBF.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:57:19 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:58:40 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:03:29 dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:56 what would be a concise way to find the index of the nth occurrence of some character in a list 23:06:03 slime-identation seems not to like my unicode characters 23:06:45 dto: even assuming you can concoct one using only a couple of calls to standard sequence functions, it's probably inefficient. better use loop and be done with it 23:06:54 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-18ba4468.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 23:06:57 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/x-ixmtfoxhltwicddm] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:06:59 dto: cl:position with a custom :test? 23:07:07 H4ns: hmm :) 23:08:38 that is quite an interesting idea 23:08:54 (defun find-what-dto-asks (string char n) (position 0 string :key (lambda (x) (and (eql x char) (decf n))))) 23:09:29 stassats: 0 is true 23:09:53 stassats: more concise: 0 is non-nil, and thereby considered non-false 23:10:17 how's that relevant? 23:10:19 ah. 23:10:22 position 0 23:10:23 sorry, 23:10:26 (find-what-dto-asks "asdsaa" #\x 2 ) =>  23:10:37 (my NIL is printed funky) 23:10:56 yea. see now what you did. 23:13:55 dan64 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:14:29 fascinating :) 23:14:33 -!- dan64 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:15:28 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:18:18 -!- espadrine [~thaddee_t@acces2342.res.insa-lyon.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:49 -!- kai_ [~kai@f052096124.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:58 -!- ngz [~user@69.205.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:19:00 espadrine [~thaddee_t@acces2342.res.insa-lyon.fr] has joined #lisp 23:19:22 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 23:20:57 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:21:22 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@Lark.price.clarkson.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:44 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:05 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:23:21 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-ucaxgwcycenbpbfi] has joined #lisp 23:27:02 ehu: do you know if cxml-stp runs on ABCL? 23:28:46 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has quit [Quit: rme] 23:28:49 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:12 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:33:43 isson16127 [~isson@27.119.127.164] has joined #lisp 23:35:20 -!- isson16127 [~isson@27.119.127.164] has quit [Client Quit] 23:35:25 fukushima [~fukushima@z176.58-98-148.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:39:58 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:40:17 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.111.172] has joined #lisp 23:44:01 rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has joined #lisp 23:44:10 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 23:47:00 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-24-128-27-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:47:46 kai_ [~kai@f052096124.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:50:19 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.111.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:50 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA291BB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:53:37 WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-220-121-27.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:53 Hello, does anyone know how to join enums in the CFFI? 23:54:36 as in logical or? 23:55:10 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has quit [Quit: o/] 23:55:30 stassats: Yes. I've been looking for the command. 23:56:19 logior 23:56:30 stassats: Ahh. Thank you! 23:56:48 I feel bad for having to ask but I just couldn't find an example 23:57:34 daem0n [~yaargh@host-89-242-50-226.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:36 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@host-89-242-50-226.as13285.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:57:36 daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 23:57:54 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has quit [Client Quit] 23:59:53 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]